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Boring Is the Worst Version of Something with John T. Reuter
197 Plays1 month ago
Sometimes, it feels like we don’t deserve to do these shows. This week, Apocalypse Duds Super Fan, Earnest Politico, Big Parking Lot Hater, 40s French Glasses Enthusiast, Astoundingly Thoughtful Genius, Kind, Pragmatic Operator, John T. Reuter. I don’t want to spoil it, but we covered much uncharted territory on this show about love, circumstance, and forgiveness. You really must listen. For a show requiring no prep,John was one of our most prepared ever. Maybe half the time, we share the show outline before the show, but not this time. We remained electrically on the rails, ever closer to the show’s mission, if there is one.
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome to 2026
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Welcome again to Apocalypse Duds. This is a new year. We are in 2026, which is wild. But Matt and I are pretty much doing the same stuff, except a little better.
00:00:15
Conor Fowler
That's the idea anyway.
00:00:17
matt
let's Let's hope at least. Yeah, yeah.
00:00:18
Conor Fowler
Right, right. We're being, at we're at the point in the year where we're still hopeful, seven days in. um
Meet John T. Reuter
00:00:25
Conor Fowler
We have here a long kind of like missed guests like a guest that I have wanted to have on the show forever and has been suggested to have on the show forever who is a fan of the show even uh and now in the studio John T. Reuter the international man of mystery I asked John what do you know about him and that's what he said he said international man of mystery that was the only that was the only message in the text so welcome
00:00:58
matt
Yeah, thanks for coming on, Chuck.
00:00:59
John T. Reuter
Thank you.
Text vs. Real-time Communication
00:01:00
John T. Reuter
Not me, this is not me writing back about myself. This is John Loafer.
00:01:03
matt
Yeah, yeah, John Loeffer's.
00:01:04
John T. Reuter
Yeah, just to be, I just want to be clear that I was not self-reflation, but it is a joy to be on the pod.
00:01:04
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:01:05
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:05
Conor Fowler
matt Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:12
John T. Reuter
I'm thrilled to find out that I was long-term guest. I know I was very hard to get on. You had to ask me.
00:01:18
Conor Fowler
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:19
matt
Yeah, but that's usually our problem, you know.
00:01:22
Conor Fowler
Well, it's asking and it's a little bit too like you're sort of a not like an elder statesman, but you're like, a your opinion is respected.
00:01:33
Conor Fowler
Like if you say shit, people are like, oh man, that's John saying shit.
00:01:35
matt
Thank you.
00:01:36
Conor Fowler
You know what I mean? ah so it's not like I was like intimidated.
00:01:38
John T. Reuter
I would
00:01:42
John T. Reuter
i do not have that self-conception of myself.
00:01:42
Conor Fowler
you.
00:01:45
John T. Reuter
So that's that's ah I guess that's nice to hear. um it is always you know You and I were chatting a little bit before we threw on the mics here and how... um how discombobulated it is to like actually chat with people that you've just had a text conversation with, right? On Discord or on Instagram or whatever. And yeah, you see photos, but you have no kind of like real-time exchange, like conversation of video or audio, right? Taking place. um And I think it's also so similar, like our understanding of each other's internal lives is always like difficult to break through to, but especially like on a Discord server or an Instagram or whatever, like by just the text thing, I think it is especially
00:02:25
John T. Reuter
um like unclear like how we come across to others, if that makes sense. So it's very nice of you to say those things.
00:02:30
matt
but Totally, totally.
00:02:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:02:30
matt
It,
00:02:31
John T. Reuter
i don't know if that's my self-conception of myself online. I have a lot of takes and like to share them with people.
00:02:34
Conor Fowler
No, dude, I was just...
00:02:37
John T. Reuter
So...
00:02:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I was just faced with this. Like, I was talking to this woman. we matched on a dating app. I was talking to her, and she said that I was saying too much stuff, which I should have known off the bat was it was not going to work.
00:02:49
John T. Reuter
Hmm.
00:02:54
Conor Fowler
You know, if you're, like, overwhelmed by my five text messages, it's probably not going to go well in person. Yeah, I'm a talker.
00:03:00
matt
Right. You're also a talker, like, which, which is part of the reason why we do this show.
00:03:03
Conor Fowler
There's no – right.
00:03:05
matt
And like, to your point, John, you know, the, the conversations on message boards or like via, you know, DMS or texts or whatever, like in, in a interview format, not everyone feels comfortable, even if they are a chatty person, you know?
00:03:07
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:03:19
matt
So I don't, I don't think we've had any like harsh kind of interviews, but you know, like sometimes it takes a while for people to feel comfortable. So.
00:03:30
Conor Fowler
And that's what we like to do. I mean, that's the best praise that I have ever gotten about this show. Someone said that we give people a space to be themselves, which I think is so nice.
00:03:39
matt
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're we're wholesome over here.
00:03:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's like not even that ironic. um So, John, to get into it. Where are you now and where are you from?
Life in Boston
00:03:51
John T. Reuter
So I am talking to you from Boston, where we've lived for three years now.
00:03:54
Conor Fowler
okay
00:03:55
John T. Reuter
We moved here after the pandemic to be near my little brother and his family.
00:03:57
Conor Fowler
Nice.
00:03:59
John T. Reuter
um so So we've been out here, and I'm getting to watch my nephew and niece grow up, which is very fulfilling. um
00:04:06
matt
what part of the What part of the city are you in?
00:04:06
Conor Fowler
nice
00:04:10
John T. Reuter
um We are in Roslindale.
00:04:11
Conor Fowler
so
00:04:14
John T. Reuter
um
00:04:14
matt
Okay.
00:04:15
John T. Reuter
does that So it's one neighborhood out from ah from Jamaica Plains.
00:04:19
matt
Okay. Yeah.
00:04:19
John T. Reuter
um
00:04:20
matt
Okay. Yeah. I've been like in and around Jamaica playing a good bit. I love Boston. yeah Connor and I were talking about this yesterday, like outside of New York, I think it's probably, at well, it and Philly are, in my opinion, are two of the easiest cities to like get around on foot or like, you know, in a non automobile.
00:04:39
matt
So,
00:04:40
John T. Reuter
Yeah, it's that's allegedly true.
00:04:41
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:04:42
John T. Reuter
um I think it's more true when you're more downtown. we've always So now we're like, my wife says we live in the suburbs. And I'm like, no, Roslindale the same neighborhood the mayor of Boston lives in. It cannot be the suburbs definitionally.
00:04:52
matt
Right.
00:04:54
John T. Reuter
But we've always lived like in smack down in the middle of cities together. So um so so I grew up in the
Childhood Memories
00:05:00
John T. Reuter
Northwest. And and then i look I grew up in a really rural um community, or i grew up in a rural part of the community.
00:05:06
John T. Reuter
I guess it wouldn't be... really rural is always a matter of definition. what Really rural is always like one town smaller than wherever you are. um i think, you know.
00:05:13
Conor Fowler
yeah well it's weird you're talking about you're talking about like small town oregon right
00:05:19
John T. Reuter
Yes, relatively small. So, you know, I mean, you
00:05:21
Conor Fowler
so that's i mean i get the impression that i get of that place is that it is pretty desolate like it's pretty sparse
00:05:29
John T. Reuter
It's, I mean, it's relative, right? It was, it was a couple hours, hour and a half from Portland or something like that in Lebanon, Oregon, in the Willamette Valley, um which was, you know, it was, so it's a rural community.
00:05:39
John T. Reuter
We grew up outside of Lebanon in the, in the countryside on a couple acres right next to a Christmas tree farm. um
00:05:45
matt
Oh,
00:05:47
John T. Reuter
Yeah. And then, and then on the other side of the Christmas tree farm were our very good friends growing up. So we ran back and forth between that all the time. Yeah. And and then late and then my mother's side of the family is this big Greek sheep ranching family um out in um out in Idaho.
00:05:57
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:06:08
John T. Reuter
And so I spent, you know, maybe ah several weeks, two, four but weeks a year out on the ranch where. We weren't running sheep, other people running sheep on it still at that point in time in really rural Idaho.
00:06:20
John T. Reuter
So my town, you know, maybe it's 15,000 in Lebanon, but in, but Kupram, which is a town close to the ranch, is a town of either six or eight people. um That's, that's the real, so, and then, then yeah.
00:06:30
matt
Oh, ah wow
00:06:31
Conor Fowler
yeah I can't even. So I guess your wife is like a city person too, right?
00:06:38
John T. Reuter
She grew up in, yeah, she grew up in Fort Worth. So, so, you know.
00:06:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah, like I'm kind of interested about this because, like, i don't know, my girlfriend is from Pittsburgh, which I think makes her like Baltimore more because she is, like, from a similar city.
00:06:55
Conor Fowler
I think that that just kind of.
00:06:58
John T. Reuter
I like, so here's what I like.
Appreciation for Places
00:07:00
John T. Reuter
I like to be somewhere, right? In an actual place. And so when I think about what does that mean to me, I think, you know, what is, what a place, a place can be a city where you're in the middle of action and activity and things are happening and you're there, or it can be the middle of nowhere, right?
00:07:04
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:07:16
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:07:17
John T. Reuter
It's also a place to be out in the wilderness and be like wandering and hiking and, and, you know, and exploring.
00:07:17
matt
Right.
00:07:22
John T. Reuter
Those are both places. um To me,
00:07:26
Conor Fowler
So you're not a pure city person.
00:07:28
John T. Reuter
No, no, I like both, although I'm more of an urban environmentalist than a ah than a rural environmentalist in many ways.
00:07:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:07:34
John T. Reuter
But no, I love being out.
00:07:35
Conor Fowler
I feel like they don't get their shit
00:07:39
John T. Reuter
i'm very I'm very comfortable on ah on a dirt road or a gravel road traveling for for a long time.
00:07:40
Conor Fowler
Dude, what great...
00:07:44
John T. Reuter
i'm very you know those are not those Those feel like familiar places um But I also love cities. I think both can be really great. um What I always say is that the opposite of place, right, is parking.
00:07:58
John T. Reuter
And what I don't love are giant parking lots where nothing's ever happening, where it's empty and there's just this massive, like, nothingness, um right?
00:08:04
Conor Fowler
dude what a great
00:08:05
John T. Reuter
And so that actual, like, suburbia feeling where nothing's actually happening there, that to me is what, right, that to me is what feels like you're not actually somewhere, right?
00:08:08
Conor Fowler
right
00:08:09
matt
Oh, God, it's the worst.
00:08:15
John T. Reuter
And so to me, what's exciting is, is is really places where things are happening, but people aren't the only thing that happen in this world, right?
Joy in Ignorance and Discovery
00:08:23
John T. Reuter
Mountains are an happening thing. A river is a happening thing.
00:08:26
John T. Reuter
Wildlife is a happening thing. And people are also really cool and exciting.
00:08:28
matt
Right.
00:08:30
John T. Reuter
um And I think, um I don't know, it's it I love both of those things, I guess is what I would say. um
00:08:37
Conor Fowler
It's a very persuasive defense because I feel like i am a black and white person, like to my detriment.
00:08:40
matt
I,
00:08:44
Conor Fowler
Like, I think a city is the only thing. It's like, why would you do anything else? It just makes so much sense to me. But then, of course, there is and opposite that also makes sense. It just isn't my thing.
00:08:59
John T. Reuter
that mean Yeah, I think that that's right. And I guess that's, you know, to me, that's the thing about clothing too, I guess I would say, or art or anything else there. um i I think what the – this is very like this' a very like typical opinion, right?
00:09:16
John T. Reuter
But boring is the worst version of something. like like Hating something or loving something is interesting. When it's just boring, when it's just dull, that lack of activity, right?
00:09:23
matt
Thank you.
00:09:26
John T. Reuter
That lack of like a sensation of a response of something. That's what I think feels really – I don't know. You know what I'm saying? like That's just very –
00:09:35
John T. Reuter
and
00:09:35
Conor Fowler
my mom My mom said something um that I have a quote here.
00:09:40
Conor Fowler
um She said, there's a fine line of loud dressing. You know and you don't care or you don't know and you don't care. Which I thought was like, because she is a little bit like me.
00:09:56
Conor Fowler
She is like a loud dresser, but like in a different like, oh, I like these flowers.
00:10:00
matt
Yeah.
00:10:02
Conor Fowler
You know what I mean?
00:10:05
John T. Reuter
I do Yeah. And I think that, yeah, that's interesting. I like those, those ideas that there's, that there's a, um there's a version of, ignorance that's exciting and there's a version of deep knowledge that's exciting, right?
00:10:16
Conor Fowler
All right. All right.
00:10:19
John T. Reuter
um but there is a But there's also like this sort of this, um there's a version where you care and don't know anything that's really annoying. um Both as a personal experience, I will say as someone who's cared and not known about things, but also um um but also like the aesthetic results are pretty lousy in those situations too.
00:10:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:41
matt
I feel like the, you know, the ignorance. So my take on this is if the ignorance about something leads to discovery, I think it's great. And I think it's, you know, there's something there's something pure about that rather than just like, you know, just teaching yourself to become an encyclopedia of a subject.
00:11:01
matt
um And then if it if it doesn't lead to discovery, that's when, you know, that's when I'm out.
00:11:10
Conor Fowler
There you have it. I think that's right, though. I mean, that's like ah
00:11:15
matt
Yeah, I mean, i feel like, you know, it just specifically clothing, too.
00:11:17
Conor Fowler
you can only beat your head against the wall so many times.
00:11:21
matt
Like, we were all ignorant of things once, and that led us into becoming fucking nerds about a subject, you know? Like, i think I think those are the coolest people.
00:11:30
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:11:32
matt
it's It's the people that don't want to learn that I don't fucking understand at all.
00:11:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
A Love for Japanese Baseball
00:11:38
matt
So, ah so i think that leads perfectly into what are you wearing today?
00:11:38
John T. Reuter
Just that disconnect, yeah.
00:11:38
Conor Fowler
It's a bad scene.
00:11:45
John T. Reuter
What am I wearing? Okay, we'll do we'll do a fit check. um Boring clothes today I'm wearing. There you go after all of that, but they're not boring to me.
00:11:55
John T. Reuter
um Okay, what do I have on today?
00:11:55
Conor Fowler
Exactly.
00:11:58
John T. Reuter
Okay, these are um nineteen um 1940s French eyewear that I picked up from vintage eyewear glass in Japan.
00:12:06
Conor Fowler
I can't wait to get into that. Yeah, dude, come on.
00:12:08
John T. Reuter
um this is this is the this are my iowa This is the Southern All-Stars concert to it from 1992, 1993 sweatshirt that i have on here um that I bought.
00:12:10
Conor Fowler
ah
00:12:13
Conor Fowler
Oh.
00:12:21
John T. Reuter
that i that i went back I saw it on a street. as i was So I went to Japan for the first time this year as as this outfit's becoming clear here. and And as I was walking by this place, I went back to get this because I got really excited.
00:12:30
Conor Fowler
you
00:12:33
John T. Reuter
that's It is beat up. It is like stained. It has all the markings of age on it here. Um, and, and Southern all-stars is like a, is a Japanese band, um, that's quite famous.
00:12:46
John T. Reuter
And I'll say more about that in a second. Cause I didn't know any of that when I got it, why I got it was as a picture of a baseball stadium. And I have been obsessed with especially Japanese baseball since I was probably since about 1992, 93 around that time there.
00:12:55
Conor Fowler
you
00:13:00
matt
Oh, wait, did you did you see Mr.
00:13:01
John T. Reuter
um
00:13:03
matt
Baseball with Tom Selleck and go like, that's that's my shit?
00:13:06
John T. Reuter
No, what happened was um that would that would totally work. But no, what happened was my aunt brought me back from Japan a baseball poster um of this like cartoon Japanese baseball.
00:13:18
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:13:18
John T. Reuter
And I love baseball anyway. And so I put up this baseball poster in my room there. And it's not that, you know, at that point in time, you're not going to be able to like in the 90s, you're not, there's no way to stream or watch the stuff there.
00:13:29
John T. Reuter
But it just, it was the idea. It was this legendary idea of like, oh, here's this thing.
00:13:32
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:13:35
John T. Reuter
that's both familiar and surprising. And I think part of what I have always, which is which is in many ways what Japan is like, is both familiar familiar and surprising in these ways. um So anyway, that became the Japanese baseball obsession. So I saw a a sweatshirt with a baseball stadium on it. It said all stars on it.
00:13:54
John T. Reuter
I had no idea what it meant at all. I Googled it really quick on my phone. I'm like, oh, it's a band, huh? Oh, well, I don't care. um I'll be that kind of a poser who buys and doesn't know.
00:14:04
matt
ah
00:14:04
John T. Reuter
island
00:14:04
Conor Fowler
Yeah, what's your favorite album?
00:14:07
John T. Reuter
Right. Well, so there's this, um and so this will be a very long, we'll get we'll get through the rest of what I'm wearing eventually, maybe or maybe not. but but But there's this there's this, in Tokyo, there's this place called the Golden Guy, which is a series of like 300,000 tiny bars, like six, seven people can sit at these bars, right? Any of them? and they're And they're both downstairs and they'll also be like on top of each other too. And they're all these tiny ones. They all have different like themes. So there might be one that's like, ah there could be ah heavy metal one, for example. There might be another one that's all like jazz themed. There might be one that's just like a local hangout spot. There might be one where the entire room is just painted red and everything in the bar is red. All right. So all these different like, and they're all owned by these different owners. And it's this three, four block square of all these tiny little bars.
00:14:57
John T. Reuter
So we went there. i got this on on my first full day in Japan. And on our last full day, I think it was, I was talking with my mom and and we went to one of these bars together and we struck up as a conversation with some locals there.
00:15:07
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:15:12
John T. Reuter
um And I was like, and were like, what have you done and everything else? And I said, oh, well, you know, what do you think of like ah Southern All-Stars? And I said, I got this sweater and they're like wait, how do you know who Southern All-Stars is? And I have like no idea who they are. I said, I had to reveal my poster done. they said, well...
00:15:28
John T. Reuter
They're super famous.
00:15:28
Conor Fowler
you
00:15:29
John T. Reuter
And what they're famous for is a song from about that period that they wrote um that's all about like the bittersweetness of the end of summer and about like the idea that summer is ending and coming to a conclusion.
00:15:44
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:15:45
John T. Reuter
um And and it's kind of i've now i've then they put it up on the bar and played it, which was the first time i ever heard their music at that point. um And they're like, yeah, this is the, you know, this is what it is.
00:15:56
John T. Reuter
And I i did like the song, um but it was kind of a ballady kind of thing. But we were there in the fall too. were there at the end of summer, right? And so it's this beautiful idea that here I have this band that ties to baseball, that Japanese baseball.
00:16:09
John T. Reuter
It also ties to this moment that I'm on this first trip there of this kind of bittersweet moment of the end of this period, at the end of a trip, that's a sort of bittersweet moment, right? ah
00:16:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah, and that's like a perfect souvenir.
00:16:20
John T. Reuter
So anyway, so it's like, So, right. So i love so i love I love the sweater and, you know, um I did think a bit what I might wear on ah on a podcast where we're talking about clothes.
00:16:25
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:16:32
John T. Reuter
And in many ways, it encapsulates... The things I love best, which some of them are expensive, but many of them aren't. They don't have to be right. um But they all are imbued with like with a story, right? They're all connected to moments and to conversations and to people. And that's true of both these glasses too, which I could have gone on a longer conversation about, but also this sweater. So that's the sweater.
00:16:55
John T. Reuter
um I'm wearing Orslo brown corduroy fatigue pants. um And I'm hanging out with some LL Bean socks on today.
00:17:07
John T. Reuter
And that's everything.
00:17:07
matt
Nice.
00:17:08
John T. Reuter
Oh, yeah. and i have a weave belt on here. Wife. W-Y-T-H-E.
00:17:13
matt
Yeah, what?
00:17:13
John T. Reuter
how
00:17:13
matt
Cool, cool.
00:17:14
John T. Reuter
yeah So anyway, that's what I'm that's what i'm wearing.
00:17:15
matt
Yeah. yeah It wouldn't be a a Northeast fit without a little bit of L being thrown in.
00:17:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:17:22
John T. Reuter
There you go. Yeah.
00:17:24
matt
Yeah.
00:17:26
John T. Reuter
So I usually wear i used to wear a Patagonia socks when i'm wearing these ones, but I got these as a gift and I do like them.
00:17:27
Conor Fowler
So
00:17:31
John T. Reuter
But but I like to wear my Patagonia because that's my, that's my, it's my, you
00:17:32
Conor Fowler
I got bean socks for Christmas too.
00:17:36
matt
Okay. have you Have you had a chance to get up to the L.O. Bean outlet stores or anything in Maine yet?
00:17:45
John T. Reuter
Not when I moved here, but um but gosh, back in 2012, I went there when i first um when I first started my job at Conservation Voters for Idaho.
00:17:49
Conor Fowler
you
00:17:53
matt
Oh, that's sick.
00:17:58
John T. Reuter
So I work in environmental politics and our conference that year was in Portland, Maine. And so I made a point of going and checking out the L.L. Bean store when we were up that way there, which was pretty cool.
00:18:08
matt
Yeah, yeah. it's a yeah i've been to i been I haven't been to the main store, but I've been to like some of the outlet shops and whatnot up around there.
00:18:10
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:18:18
matt
like It's hella fun.
00:18:22
John T. Reuter
it's it's It's cool because again, like you know this is what makes a store great too, right? Is it is somewhere. And like that L.L. Bean store is like a place, right? It's a destination. Oh, there's a giant boot.
00:18:32
matt
Totally.
00:18:32
John T. Reuter
you're you know're You're experiencing something. And that's what made Japanese retail so amazing too, is that it was just, you were always you were always somewhere. None of it was like, ah not you know it didn't feel anonymous or generic or just a carbon copy.
00:18:45
John T. Reuter
All of it was infused with personality.
00:18:45
matt
Right.
00:18:47
John T. Reuter
And you know you don't get that oftentimes from some of these big mega brands, but you will get it from like their defining place, right? Or like the the the flagship store or something.
00:18:56
Conor Fowler
The flagship Thor, right?
00:18:57
John T. Reuter
Sometimes you can get it right.
00:18:59
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:18:59
John T. Reuter
And it's almost like every store is a flagship store
Evolving Brand Identity
00:19:02
John T. Reuter
um in some way.
00:19:02
matt
Right. Yeah.
00:19:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah, and after a point like a brand doesn't have to do that.
00:19:04
matt
je
00:19:08
Conor Fowler
like a brand doesn't have to satisfy their customers in that way anymore. Like they just are kind of like, well, you can either like this shit or not like it
00:19:18
matt
Yeah, I feel like I feel like the only real like American brand that still operates in that way is Ralph Lauren.
00:19:19
John T. Reuter
fifty yeah Sorry, go ahead.
00:19:21
Conor Fowler
Well, talking about like Old Navy. mean, like...
00:19:26
matt
Like, you know, every every store, be it regular polo shop or a home goods shop, if they still have those or like double RL, like they all have such a like strong personality. But, you know, J. Crew doesn't have that. Madewell doesn't have that. They're fucking everywhere.
00:19:46
Conor Fowler
i'm talking about like old navy
00:19:49
matt
Oh yeah.
00:19:49
Conor Fowler
i mean
00:19:49
matt
to I mean that, that also like you think about, you know, you think, think about like the origins of banana Republic as a brand and like the, the wild displays and safari shit that they had in the stores in the, you know in the eighties.
00:19:50
Conor Fowler
like in a different league.
00:20:03
matt
And then fast forward to what walking in there today and you're like, how is this the same fucking brand?
00:20:10
Conor Fowler
Which would have been cool.
00:20:10
John T. Reuter
Like, okay, even Ralph Lauren though, right? Like ah RRL, absolutely, we'll give that to you. Those stores are unique and amazing experiences. but But if you go to like a general Ralph store, right?
00:20:22
John T. Reuter
It certainly has a sense of place. They certainly care about world building. I don't want to like dismiss that brand, but I will tell you what, compared to people in Japan selling vintage, like all Ralph vintage, like they're doing way better world building than what the ralph the the actual Ralph shop is doing here, you know, that kind of way, you know?
00:20:31
matt
Oh, 100%. Yeah, oh. Agreed. Agreed. yeah
00:20:37
matt
yeah oh
00:20:38
Conor Fowler
Well, that's what I mean, because they don't have to do it anymore. Like Ralph doesn't have to do it because Why should they have to do it, right? Like they've been done that already.
00:20:46
John T. Reuter
i think a I think, I mean, Ralph does enough of it still that it seems to work, but but i but i but I think people thought they didn't have to do it. And I think they're wrong. i think it's part of why retail is dying is because people said,
00:20:58
Conor Fowler
And well, in some brands, yes.
00:20:58
matt
agreed okay
00:21:00
Conor Fowler
And some brands have fucked up, but by doing this thing,
00:21:02
John T. Reuter
right. Right.
00:21:05
matt
Yeah.
00:21:05
John T. Reuter
I think most of them have, right? And in general, like this is the whole crisis of luxury fashion right now too, where I don't know how much – this is like a – you know, this is the place that I'm generally hanging out or where this pod hangs out.
00:21:16
John T. Reuter
But if you if you if you follow the dialogue of what's happening in luxury fashion right now, all the sales are like just crashing right now. Everything is coming down because the prices have gotten too high, right?
00:21:25
John T. Reuter
The product doesn't actually match them, right?
00:21:25
Conor Fowler
Well, who can buy it?
00:21:27
Conor Fowler
Who can buy Right.
00:21:27
John T. Reuter
But people – Right. people and And even the people who can buy it, right, where money is not like the key customers, right, the people who drive those brands are a tiny little percentage of people. But they're starting to say this experience offers no value anymore.
00:21:39
John T. Reuter
And so you're seeing the same thing happen with the mid market where you're seeing people go to Old Navy and say this experience has no value anymore.
00:21:40
matt
right
00:21:40
Conor Fowler
right
00:21:46
John T. Reuter
And you're also seeing it happen on a luxury front where this experience has no value anymore. and And I think it's why things like vintage are becoming so exciting in this moment because you still have individual shop owners, right? And and most, any individual shop owner shop, whether it's a digital shop or an in-person shop or whatever, is the flagship of that brand, right? If you're a one person person, you are running the flagship of that brand. And those those individual people, right? Folks like Matt are still actually like,
00:22:16
John T. Reuter
curating, taking care, and like world building in a purposeful way. And the and the secret about world building right is whether you are doing it on purpose or failing to do it, either way, you're actually still building the world.
00:22:30
John T. Reuter
It's just when you don't put effort into it or don't you know don't actively engage in it, the world you create really stinks.
00:22:30
matt
Thank you.
00:22:36
John T. Reuter
Right? J.Crew is still creating a world. It's just really not that exciting of a world. um You know, the old Old Navy is still creating a world.
00:22:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:44
John T. Reuter
It's just not an exciting world. ah It's just uninteresting. It's boring. It's blah. um And it's...
00:22:49
Conor Fowler
It reminds me of a mall. It reminds me of like you as a consumer are faceless and like they have collected data about you for 20 years and they still know nothing about you.
00:23:01
John T. Reuter
and And the irony of that, right, is that malls started out as an exciting world building projects where people created place, right?
00:23:05
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:23:08
matt
Oh, 100%.
00:23:10
John T. Reuter
And it's like, oh let's go hang on the food court.
00:23:10
matt
Yeah.
00:23:11
John T. Reuter
Let's go be here, right? And so, and that's...
00:23:12
matt
Especially if you were like if you were in a place, like not in a non-city, like I grew up in a super rural town in Georgia and there was a mall, you know, 30 minutes away.
00:23:20
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
00:23:22
matt
and it it was like, that was the big thing.
00:23:23
John T. Reuter
Right. Right.
00:23:25
matt
it You know, every week or two is like, oh, cool. I get to go to the mall. Like at that point I get to eat Chick-fil-A or, you know, Chinese food. Like I get to go to the arcade, you know,
00:23:36
Conor Fowler
yeah you go to the food court get an egg roll whatever
00:23:37
matt
and Yeah, as someone that does, like, I fucking hate online shopping. I've probably said it before. I'll say it them another million times. But, like, I enjoy buying things in person.
00:23:50
matt
You know, if it's, like, something that I'm going to resell, you know, that I got a good deal on online, I'm not worried about that. But, like, you know, actual things, like, that i that are new or, like, you know, I need to buy a pair of pants. Like, I like doing that in person.
00:24:09
John T. Reuter
Well, right. and And I mean, absolutely one. I don't think that they, in person, I think is just fundamentally more exciting, but also how much has that online experience also gotten it worse in the same way as everywhere else has gotten worse, right?
00:24:21
matt
Right, right.
00:24:21
John T. Reuter
that The algorithm takes over, it's gotten it more bland, it's gotten more boring, it's gotten less interesting.
00:24:21
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:24:21
matt
Oh yeah, totally.
00:24:25
John T. Reuter
And it's less a sense of the ability to like go on an adventure. It's much more a sense of here I'm being spoon filled everything.
00:24:30
Conor Fowler
It's a slog. Yeah.
00:24:32
John T. Reuter
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:32
Conor Fowler
I was just going to say, like, my deep, dark secret is that I buy shit on Amazon. And i do it because I'm poor and i can return whatever the fuck I want. Right. Like, it's a pretty easy equation.
00:24:49
Conor Fowler
But they started charging money. like restocking fees, which I just can't abide. I mean, they want to charge me 15% to return this toilet or paper towel holder, whatever the fuck. ah I can't abide that.
00:25:07
Conor Fowler
I can't give them more money. So it really all has become terrible. Like from going from there, like I remember in like 2009, 2010, people were like, Jeff Bezos is going to save the world with this. ah Right.
00:25:23
Conor Fowler
Just amazing.
00:25:24
matt
Yeah, the incentivification of everyday life.
00:25:24
Conor Fowler
What
00:25:28
John T. Reuter
Right, which makes it all the more exciting when you go somewhere and connect with people and have real conversations and have an actual process of like discovery, whether it's online or whether it's in or whether it's in person, especially when it's in person.
00:25:42
John T. Reuter
Those moments have become even more, I think, special right in a way.
00:25:46
matt
Totally.
00:25:46
John T. Reuter
Mm-hmm.
Personal Connections in Commerce
00:25:47
matt
And honestly, that's
00:25:47
Conor Fowler
one rare like
00:25:49
matt
That's why I like doing markets over selling online.
00:25:52
Conor Fowler
you
00:25:52
matt
Like at least selling through like Instagram or something is, is a little bit more personal, you know, i and I've made a bunch of friends because they like bought something fucking Connor. We, the show wouldn't be here without me selling shit on Instagram, but yeah.
00:26:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Zmod.
00:26:06
John T. Reuter
There you go. but But then you're having an actual relationship with somebody too, right?
00:26:10
matt
Totally.
00:26:11
John T. Reuter
It's a one-on-one, like actual conversation. You know each other, right? that The human connection is really the key. And what makes... what I remember early days of internet and like doing like playing role-playing games as like a teenager.
00:26:23
John T. Reuter
And they were all like text-based, right?
00:26:24
matt
Oh yeah. Right.
00:26:25
John T. Reuter
Little, you know, things and having like chat on it.
00:26:26
Conor Fowler
<unk>
00:26:28
John T. Reuter
Yep. MUDs and MOOs and, oh gosh, whatever the other ones were.
00:26:30
Conor Fowler
ah yeah
00:26:31
John T. Reuter
The various M starting acronyms for whatever text-based things they were.
00:26:33
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:26:36
John T. Reuter
And you ah had these... You just would have these incredible conversations and relationships with people, but you you stumbled upon these things, right? that it wasn't Search wasn't that good. um Discovery and and and it not being that good actually made it better, right? The the the the friction is actually like a benefit, not like a bug, guess.
00:27:00
John T. Reuter
bug i guess
00:27:01
matt
Right.
00:27:04
Conor Fowler
Yeah, sorry. I'm just writing this down. I mean, the thing about this that I wonder, like, it's hard for me to remove my, like, anti-capital thing, because I think, like, what is being done to us, and no doubt it's being done to us, is we are all being made more lonely.
00:27:26
Conor Fowler
being made more solitary and like the matrix they truly would have us just in little pods each one of us in a little pod right so long as we were like producing something of work um so i wonder like what social engineering is going on because i can remember like i don't know when i was in college i was fucking talking to people all the time and that's college right
00:27:26
John T. Reuter
Mm-hmm.
00:27:52
Conor Fowler
But why is it so different out in the world, i guess?
00:27:59
John T. Reuter
Yeah, it is a um
00:28:02
John T. Reuter
it is a – I think what's really tragic about in some ways is I don't think it comes from – don't think it's a purposeful thing that's happened.
00:28:14
John T. Reuter
you know I don't think it's some grand scheme. i don't even know that it's um I don't even know that it's profit motive as much as anything else because I think you – I don't think it's actually working out in terms of of long-term profit or creation.
00:28:27
Conor Fowler
Well, it doesn't have to be working out, but I think the idea of isolating everyone so that they have to buy
00:28:28
John T. Reuter
tooth Yeah.
00:28:34
Conor Fowler
one thing an addition so like 50 subscriptions um you know we're not even allowed to share the stuff that we buy
00:28:44
John T. Reuter
Yeah, it's very it's very I understand that description side is certainly part of it, too, that it disconnects and it stops the sharing of things, although, but the you know, all those kind of things.
00:28:54
matt
Red.
00:28:55
John T. Reuter
It's a hard it's it's it's um I think that that does get at the crux of the whole thing, though, right, is that what makes all this feel so bleak is the destruction of community.
00:28:56
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:29:03
John T. Reuter
is the ceasing idea of like we're in conversation with each other, we're doing something together. um And it's what's made it's what's made shopping bleaker too, because so many people's experience of shopping is just Amazon, is just buying things through the algorithm, right? And so and so then we you know there's this um there's this common refrain right now about this idea that we should we should invest in experiences, not in stuff.
00:29:27
John T. Reuter
ah
00:29:27
Conor Fowler
Right. Right.
00:29:28
John T. Reuter
But here's the thing, stuff can be an experience.
00:29:31
matt
Right.
00:29:31
John T. Reuter
Some of my best experiences are owning stuff. And I and i know that. i think that this is my But it depends on how you've acquired it, right? the actual There should be an actual experience around acquiring things.
00:29:39
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:29:42
John T. Reuter
And there should also be an experience of owning something. And that experience of owning something should be joyous too. The whole process of it, the process of acquiring it should be joyous, the process of owning it, enjoying it, the process of repairing it, right, in that ownership, the process of like mending it should be joyous.
00:29:57
John T. Reuter
um is there's There's this mindlessness to consumerism, which by the way, happens with all sorts of other experiences too. So much of travel become mindless too, where people just go from this TikTok spot to this TikTok spot, to this TikTok spot, right?
00:30:04
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:30:09
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:30:11
John T. Reuter
Don't tell me that's... that's not that's not a real That's not any better of an experience than the than the experience of of buying a haul from Shein, right? you know Those are the same.
00:30:20
matt
Right.
00:30:21
John T. Reuter
that's That is the in-person equivalent of that digital experience. And so I think we can have great digital experiences. I think we can have great in-person experiences. I think we can have great experiences that involve stuff.
00:30:33
John T. Reuter
um But it does take like a conscious effort to be there. um But it's a little more...
00:30:38
Conor Fowler
From a lot of from a lot of people too, right? It's like it's not just you, the consumer. It's like the person who is making the thing also has to care.
00:30:47
John T. Reuter
Yeah, my my pathetic new joyful activity of Instagram, of Instagram, is going through Instagram, i've I've trained over the last couple of weeks, my Instagram feed on accident to start showing me videos of kids at Pokemon card conventions.
00:31:06
John T. Reuter
which
00:31:06
matt
Ha ha ha ha!
00:31:07
John T. Reuter
i I do not like Pokemon at all. um My nephew recently has gotten very into Pokemon and wants me to read him the Pokemon graphic novels, which I will do because I aspire to be a great uncle.
00:31:18
John T. Reuter
But it is one of the most painful experiences of my life is reading Pokemon.
00:31:22
Conor Fowler
You already are great uncle though, dude, if you are considering it, you're a great uncle. It's like, that's, that's mud, man.
00:31:26
John T. Reuter
but it is It is not fair enough.
00:31:29
Conor Fowler
That's hard.
00:31:30
John T. Reuter
But it is it is not... I do not understand Pokemon. I do not enjoy Pokemon.
00:31:33
Conor Fowler
you
00:31:34
John T. Reuter
But I do enjoy these videos because it's all these vendors and you see them like interacting with kids and you see other people coming just like walking by up and they interact. And everyone is just so... kind to each other and is like looking out for each other and like helping people with things.
00:31:48
John T. Reuter
And you see people like giving people free cards or cutting to people a deal or whatever. And you see the same kind of things happen at like vintage clothing, like gatherings too, right? But but ah but for whatever reason, I'm not getting served those videos.
00:32:00
John T. Reuter
um
00:32:00
Conor Fowler
Because that algorithm sucks ass.
00:32:01
John T. Reuter
Try it. Right. But just to see people in community is like, is like, like I get a little, i get a little ah teary eyed about it as I'm watching these videos, which is so silly.
00:32:12
John T. Reuter
It's like when I watched, um, cool, is it cool runnings? Is that the one about the Jamaica bodsled team?
00:32:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:32:16
matt
Yeah.
00:32:17
Conor Fowler
Well,
00:32:17
John T. Reuter
Oh my gosh.
00:32:17
matt
Dude, I do the same in a league of their own.
00:32:17
John T. Reuter
I cry every time at the end of that movie when they, can't handle it.
00:32:22
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:32:23
Conor Fowler
it's like people watch Little League.
00:32:23
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
00:32:25
Conor Fowler
Little League Baseball, right?
00:32:27
matt
yeah
00:32:27
Conor Fowler
It's like you want to see the kids succeed. you Like, that's a good moment for you.
00:32:32
John T. Reuter
Right, totally. and And also, especially the moments, right, are where people are um are just sweet to each other and kind to each other. And I think so much of even the interaction that we witness, right, online, but also in person has become so disconnected, but also so cruel.
00:32:50
John T. Reuter
we're just not We're just not, you know, it's not community building. It's not community enhancing.
Community and Joyful Experiences
00:32:57
John T. Reuter
And I just, yeah, no, right.
00:32:58
Conor Fowler
Shout out John and Dan. I mean, the WeJones Discord really is like a sort of peerless, like nobody's being mean in there, like everyone's being supportive.
00:33:09
Conor Fowler
And it's like not like John is like super moderating, right? It's like people just argue because people are being nice.
00:33:13
John T. Reuter
No, they're very lovely. Yeah. And those are the, anyway, so that I just think about this inside this whole idea of like, what are we trying to do, right? What what do we need more of is just, is is community. And even if it's a community built around something that I just test, I still find it inspiring in this moment because of how much I think I'm hungry for it.
00:33:33
matt
Totally.
00:33:33
John T. Reuter
And I that hunger in general from folks in what you're talking about too.
00:33:37
Conor Fowler
you
00:33:40
matt
Do you think, you know, in in a way that like that type of um that type of thought process that you have about community is why you have been working in and environmentalism and conservation for so long?
00:33:56
John T. Reuter
um Yes, i do. Yes, I do think that that's deeply intertwined with how I think about um environmental work and conservation and politics.
00:34:03
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:34:08
John T. Reuter
um here here's the Here's the actual connection, I guess, to me in some ways, as how I would actually, you know, i how how I think about it there's um is, you know, we're talking a little bit about like world building, right? And like how I can inspire this to actually like like when people actually build a world and you get to go and experience that. We talked about these role-playing online games just briefly. with sea And I grew up playing D&D. I grew up actually, before even knew what D&D was, I created role-playing game for my older brother to play in our backyard with rocks, where different sized rocks would be different character classes. So it was a really big rock that's like a warrior, but a little tiny rock is a mage.
00:34:49
John T. Reuter
Who knows, right? But you know this is when I'm like six whatever.
00:34:50
Conor Fowler
No, but that works. That's like being a kid. That's like the joyous creativity of childhood that I fucking chased through the school system.
00:34:54
John T. Reuter
Right. Right. And transforming your whole backyard, like into this story, right? Into this adventure. um Great clothing collections are about a story and about and about these kinds of things.
00:35:02
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:35:06
John T. Reuter
You are building a a world. Wee John's is building a world. um And, you know, guess here's here I'll make this um connection over to politics and environment and the work I do around organizing with people and trying to do do that kind of work.
00:35:23
John T. Reuter
um what what I don't know how much you guys have done like role playing, but like in in Dungeons and Dragons, the worst Dungeons and Dragons adventure that you can go on is one where it's supposed to be collaborative storytelling, right?
00:35:26
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:35:36
John T. Reuter
And it's one where you keep trying to make choices and the dungeon master's in job of like but leading the thing there, right? Keeps pushing you back into the same story. And so you don't feel like you have any agency, right?
00:35:47
John T. Reuter
You feel like the choices you're making don't matter. And that's just like incredibly like disheartening.
00:35:49
matt
Right.
00:35:51
John T. Reuter
And it makes the game really suck.
00:35:54
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:54
John T. Reuter
And, um you know, we'll talk about this idea. We talk about politics. We talk about politics being the art of the possible. And I think that's true. I also have always thought about as the, ah when I, ah my work has always been about how do we expand what's possible?
00:36:07
John T. Reuter
How do we expand those things? and And part of that, the really key there thing too is like, Politics is really disillusioned. It's really like it stinks, right? It's awful when it feels like our actions don't change the story.
00:36:20
John T. Reuter
When it feels like no matter what I do, the story is already predetermined.
00:36:20
matt
Right.
00:36:20
Conor Fowler
Right. Yeah.
00:36:22
John T. Reuter
The same way that Dungeons & Dragons adventure sucks, when it feels like my actions don't change things.
00:36:25
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:36:27
John T. Reuter
And the same way when you're part of a community like Weijons and you show up and you have something to say and nobody cares about it and the story doesn't change at all, right?
00:36:28
Conor Fowler
you.
00:36:33
John T. Reuter
When we have... um I think there's a lot about why actually people, I think great faith creates great faith traditions, create room for people to have agency within the faith and not just have to like the the story actually can change.
Collaborative World-Building in Politics
00:36:45
John T. Reuter
You can actually show up and have a relationship rather than just have to feel like, oh, I'm just on this singular track. But this but anyway, pulling it over here.
00:36:53
John T. Reuter
to politics, um I think for so many people now, it feels like we have no agency. It feels like no matter what I do, the story doesn't change. No matter what action I take, it doesn't have meaning.
00:37:02
matt
I would agree with that.
00:37:05
John T. Reuter
And I think
00:37:05
Conor Fowler
it feels like it or it isn't
00:37:08
John T. Reuter
Well, this can happen on the D&D quest too, right? and what And what I'm saying is that I think as a practitioner, my job is to figure out how do we find and create moments where people's actions can change the story?
00:37:22
Conor Fowler
you
00:37:24
John T. Reuter
How do I help identify those moments? How do I identify moments where people can actually change what happens to their water or to make it cleaner? Actually change what happens to their energy so it gets cleaner. Change what happens to the air, right? we get the pollution. Change what happens in their community so they can get around and walk or take transit or just have like lower bills, right?
00:37:39
John T. Reuter
How does how how can their actions change their experience? And it is it's not it's not easy work, but it's not easy to any kind of world building and so um and collaborative like world building.
00:37:51
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:37:51
John T. Reuter
But that's what politics needs to be when it's successful. That's how it works. That's what great um political activity is about. It's about inviting people to be to build a world in a very literal way, right?
00:38:02
John T. Reuter
To build a better world together. ah and and to And to have a commitment that you are going to make sure that all of our actions together actually lead to some different result, lead to something changing in the world.
00:38:14
John T. Reuter
And and I've seen that happen. And I've also seen it not happen. And I think sometimes it doesn't happen because people choose really bad quests sometimes.
00:38:18
matt
you
00:38:21
John T. Reuter
They choose quests that are impossible. And then everybody gets disappointed because they say, I did all this stuff and nothing changed. um And sometimes you lose. You know what? It's not a bad quest just because you got unlucky or because you made a bad decision and you failed.
00:38:30
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:38:35
John T. Reuter
It's okay to fail, but it needs to be possible to win, right? It needs to be possible. And and some of it right now in this system is you know is is doing systemic change, is doing long-term work to make it so that more often...
00:38:49
John T. Reuter
the activities we take will will matter and make a difference. But I do think, you know, we we could talk about specifics and such too there, but I do think that that's that's the key to any great to any great world building.
00:39:00
John T. Reuter
And I think the best world building is collaborative. um think that's true of art too. We could talk about art. We talk about Christo, who's one of my favorite artists, um who where where where the the create the act of creation is collaborative.
00:39:07
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:39:12
John T. Reuter
um But anyway, that's what inspires me and that's what I'm interested in. Journalism is a collaborative enterprise, right? I was a journalist at the beginning of my career. It fundamentally, having a newspaper is a community endeavor when done right.
00:39:23
John T. Reuter
But so many newspapers are disconnected from community. So many clothing brands are disconnected from community. So much or politics is disconnected from your community.
00:39:28
Conor Fowler
Because the point is profit, right?
00:39:28
matt
Right.
00:39:31
Conor Fowler
When the point is profit, everything else is secondary. And if the mission of journalism is to be truthful, if profit motive is in there, it can't happen.
00:39:43
John T. Reuter
doesn't even have to be a profit. It can just be power and status, right?
00:39:46
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:39:47
John T. Reuter
But what's really, right, this is what W. David Marks writes about in his book about status is that, and I think this is why we so often point to profit and rightly so, is because so much of status today is about money, which is really just coercive to culture, right?
00:40:00
Conor Fowler
Right. Yeah.
00:40:04
John T. Reuter
Because money is not a good way to decide people's value. Like how much money you have is a lousy way to decide how important someone is. um And I think that's what you're pointing to there.
00:40:11
matt
Right.
00:40:13
John T. Reuter
And i think we I think one of the first things we need to do, which is why i worry when we get caught up on we need to distribute resources better in this country in this world. I just want to like state that clearly.
Valuing Non-Monetary Contributions
00:40:24
John T. Reuter
But we also need to make sure that we're not feeding into a pattern that suggests um money is actual value, that money is all that matters um versus like community significance right there, you know, and and other kinds of things are happening there too, if that makes sense.
00:40:33
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:40:41
John T. Reuter
I sometimes, um you can hear the despair from people who say, who sometimes will feel like, gosh, my career doesn't matter because it's not profitable um or it's not profitable enough or not making money somebody else.
00:40:54
John T. Reuter
And i have to tell you, the people I admire most in this world are are not making or not making that much money most of the time.
00:41:01
Conor Fowler
Well, but this is the thing. i mean, as someone who did that, right? It doesn't like, I just got into an argument about this. It's like, don't fucking pat me on the back. Like, oh, your work is so hard. I can't believe that you did that. Like, when was the last time you helped a person at all?
00:41:20
John T. Reuter
Yeah, but we should but we should not be, that's that's not real, but that's not real status that's being granted to you when people say that, right?
00:41:21
Conor Fowler
You know?
00:41:26
Conor Fowler
Of course not.
00:41:27
John T. Reuter
Right.
00:41:27
Conor Fowler
It's shit. And that's the problem. It's a fucking pat on the back. If you really care about me, give me $100,000 a year
00:41:34
John T. Reuter
Right, but I may not have, I mean, yes, first, yes, absolutely. Let's pay teachers better. Absolutely. Yes, let's pay people who are doing work that matters better. Absolutely true. I agree with that 100%. But also, um there are other ways we can convey status that are sincere, that aren't that aren't about like, oh my gosh, your job's so hard.
00:41:53
John T. Reuter
Oh my gosh, this this is so challenging. Oh my gosh, what you do is so whatever.
00:41:57
Conor Fowler
I can't believe you do this.
00:41:59
John T. Reuter
I can't believe if you do this. None of that, that's all a little like demeaning versus saying like versus versus noticing the impact that someone's saying versus going to someone and saying, I'm not inspired by your sacrifice.
00:42:11
John T. Reuter
I'm inspired by your impact, right? Because being inspired by people's sacrifice is still making about the money. I'm inspired by how little you get paid to do so much
00:42:19
Conor Fowler
And you're still doing this?
00:42:20
John T. Reuter
Okay, fair enough.
00:42:20
Conor Fowler
my god.
00:42:21
John T. Reuter
Right. Oh, that's great. that's not That's not really admiration or really status.
00:42:24
Conor Fowler
you.
00:42:25
John T. Reuter
Status is saying to someone like, I hold you in high regard because what you're doing for the world, right? I hold you in high regard because I see what you're doing for these kids.
00:42:35
John T. Reuter
I see what you're doing for these people in this community. And to me, that has tremendous value and I value you. And I'm going to, you know, I'm i'm going to celebrate you, not... um not pity you, right? not Not be surprised by you, but impressed in in a real way that's not merely like, oh it's so impressive that you don't care about money.
00:42:55
John T. Reuter
um It's so impressive you've managed to be so poor. Those are not real.
00:42:58
Conor Fowler
Right. How did you manage to get by on $450 every two weeks?
00:42:59
John T. Reuter
That's just...
00:43:04
John T. Reuter
Right. That's not, but that's that's just, i mean, that's sort of morbid curiosity more than actual more than actual granting of status. And so I do think, um so I guess i'm I'm saying like, yes, we should, yes, we should do better on the material elements of that.
00:43:14
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:43:19
John T. Reuter
But also we should we should be a little less impressed with people who are making millions of dollars a year. We should see that as not not a particularly impressive like not a particular impressive like outcome.
00:43:26
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:43:26
matt
yeah yeah
00:43:29
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:43:29
John T. Reuter
And we should be more impressed with people who are building community, who are contributing to the world building and making it better, right? Who actually concretely creating a better place. We should be more impressed by creative acts. We should be we just need we just need to deploy status in different ways. um And we shouldn't ignore the material.
00:43:47
John T. Reuter
I'm not saying like, oh, just that doesn't matter. Of course it matters that people can live materially good lives.
00:43:54
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:43:55
John T. Reuter
But i think I think part of how we're gonna get there, and I think part of how we're gonna have meaningful life, I think the thing that makes the money even more painful is that you know that it's accompanied by the disrespect, if that makes sense.
00:44:10
John T. Reuter
And I do think it would be helpful for us to disconnect those little things a little bit more so that someone could be making less money, even if that less money was $100,000 a year, that they would know that they could actually have greater levels of status within their community than the person making $10 million dollars or $100 million dollars or the billionaire.
00:44:24
Conor Fowler
Well, there's plenty of ways to do that, right? Like wipe public teachers' student loans. There's no reason that they should be paying them.
00:44:33
John T. Reuter
Yeah, i I think we can absolutely do those material things, but I also think there are things that we can – so yes, I think there's lots of things we can do for material outcomes.
00:44:36
matt
Thank you.
00:44:38
Conor Fowler
And it would be easy, right?
00:44:41
John T. Reuter
I don't know if it's – that's a good question of whether it's easy or not. You know, a lot of things sound easy and are actually very hard to accomplish because of where it's going and everything else.
00:44:47
Conor Fowler
Well, so the money exists, it just is not going there.
00:44:52
John T. Reuter
i think I think what you could say is it would be inexpensive. That's what I would agree with.
00:44:55
Conor Fowler
How about that? See, you really are, you really are, you you're an old dog at this game.
00:45:00
John T. Reuter
It would be inexpensive. Easy, it'd be challenging. But is it inexpensive? Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that are...
00:45:04
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like it would only be challenging because our shit is so fucked up.
00:45:09
John T. Reuter
and And because of who we're granting status to inside of that and that we're that we're trapped inside that thing there. So i I also think there are real way, I think there are real substantial ways that I should think about, I mean, I need to be more specific about what those are, but where, you know what I think the most, so my mother was an educator, she's retired now, taught teachers, she was an artist and a teacher, is an artist still, is a teacher still in many ways. um but
00:45:40
John T. Reuter
But what I always thought um was the, what's the disrespectful part of teachers? Oh my gosh, I had it here in my head and now it's just disappeared out into the into the abyss. Oh, I know what it is. It's that everyone thinks that they can do it.
00:45:57
Conor Fowler
Oh yeah.
00:45:57
John T. Reuter
There isn't actually a respect for the craft.
00:45:57
matt
Right.
00:45:57
Conor Fowler
Tell me about it.
00:45:59
John T. Reuter
So it's just as though you just, that that the reason to admire you is not because of the skill, is not because of the hard work, is not because of all the effort you've put into it, but it's because of the hustle, I guess, because of the sacrifice, because of these other things there.
00:45:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:46:14
John T. Reuter
And that's-
00:46:15
Conor Fowler
Grind set.
00:46:16
John T. Reuter
that's the core That's the core act of action.
00:46:18
Conor Fowler
so
00:46:19
John T. Reuter
The parent showing up and being like, well, i know how to actually teach this classroom. It's like, you have no idea. have you seen any first year teacher? It's an incredibly hard job. Almost no one's good at it when they start. And people work really hard to get good at it because it's really hard and important and valuable work.
00:46:35
John T. Reuter
And so I think having respect for the actual profession, the discipline, the work is there, I think is really key. And by the way, you know where else we see that, Matt, you might be thinking, oh, I know these people. It's people who think, Why do i have to pay so much for this for this vintage find?
00:46:47
matt
Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah.
00:46:48
John T. Reuter
you know It's the same thing, right?
00:46:49
Conor Fowler
Amen.
00:46:49
matt
Yeah.
00:46:50
John T. Reuter
And they're like, oh, it's just all hustle.
00:46:50
matt
Yeah.
00:46:51
John T. Reuter
It's all this other thing. No, it's not.
00:46:53
matt
No, no.
00:46:54
John T. Reuter
It's work.
00:46:55
matt
Yeah, it is work.
00:46:55
John T. Reuter
it's an know it's and it's and And that's another place where we need to have respect for the profession, respect for the discipline, respect for the learning, respect for the knowledge that goes into it, right?
00:47:01
matt
I mean, you know...
00:47:05
John T. Reuter
And not just be like, well, how much money did you make? Well, that's not the only thing that matters in terms of what makes you good at what you're doing.
00:47:09
matt
Right, right. Well, I think about it, you know, in in terms of, like, vintage stuff, right? So... The the like golden age of tailoring clothing in general, whatever, it's seen as the to the teens to the 70s, I guess.
Respect for Craftsmanship
00:47:29
matt
And it's become a fetish, but it's like, in opinion,
00:47:31
matt
um and you know it's like it's become such a fetish but it's like you know in my opinion the people that were making the garments, whether it was a bespoke suit or whether you were working in assembly line, you know, whatever, like they were getting paid decently.
00:47:49
matt
They were, you know, they were essentially crafting what, what is American style on the whole, you know, without really knowing it, but you know, they were, they were respected. And that was like, that profession was seen as something that was necessary.
00:48:06
matt
Fast forward to now, why do you think, like where we don't have nearly as much American made clothing. And also when it is made in the, you know, in the States ethically, for the most part, I've seen a lot of factories.
00:48:20
matt
It like, you don't want to pay what it costs to make now. So, you know, it's, it's kind of similar to like the teaching profession. Like it's just not seen as something that's like valuable anymore.
00:48:31
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:48:32
matt
And it's, you know, it not teaching, but clothes making and like being able to, use the sewing machine and like, you know, do repairs or whatever.
00:48:42
matt
Like that's a dying art form because people started disrespecting it so much.
00:48:46
John T. Reuter
Yeah. No, absolutely. And, you know, it comes to how we look at individual items of clothing too, right? And our desire, you know, that's become much more of a quantity thing than a quality thing in many ways, but it's like, how much stuff can I collect?
00:48:58
John T. Reuter
And that obviously is cursed.
00:48:58
matt
Right.
00:49:00
John T. Reuter
That kind of consumerism is cursed. But the the love of something that's special, the going to those factories in seeing that stuff and, and you know, and and or or or knowing someone who makes clothes for you.
00:49:11
John T. Reuter
I've been really lucky in the last, i guess, the last year
00:49:14
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:49:15
John T. Reuter
several years to be able to have things made for me by people that I know. And that is a incredibly powerful and collaborative experience. um Although I will say, I think most of people who do it, do it wrong and just get the consumerism still, and they aren't actually having that full experience.
00:49:28
matt
Right,
00:49:32
John T. Reuter
They are just, you know, confusing an expensive item.
00:49:34
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:49:37
John T. Reuter
um, with, you know, well, it's expensive. Oh, it's really well made even, which is true. And that's valuable. But but they don't they don't actually value the well-made-ness. They just value the, the the you know, the expensiveness of it, really.
00:49:49
matt
right. right
00:49:49
John T. Reuter
The status that's tied to, oh my gosh, this is so hard to achieve, rather than valuing, and and many people are not. Many people do value the relationships and the coact the the act of collaboration.
00:50:00
John T. Reuter
And that to me is what's what's exciting about those kinds of experiences. Yeah.
00:50:04
matt
For sure.
00:50:05
Conor Fowler
So what was your first thing you had made?
00:50:09
John T. Reuter
um the first thing I had made um was when Edward Sexton was still – well, wait. The very first thing I had made, um not in the last couple of years, was my mother would make me costumes growing up, ah which I loved.
00:50:22
John T. Reuter
I wanted a cape. I loved a good cape growing up, and my mom made me a lot of capes.
00:50:24
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:50:25
John T. Reuter
And we would make – We would do these floats for the Strawberry Festival in Lebanon, Oregon. um And we made very elaborate floats with these elaborate like strawberry costumes and all these kind of outfits here too, right?
00:50:38
John T. Reuter
Another version of like world building. i have I had to get rid of most of these, but I have my trophy with me right here from 93. It's a very 93 year here. When we when we won the Sweepstakes Award here, I pulled it out and i'm showing to the guys on camera here, but the the Sweepstakes Award from 93.
00:50:51
Conor Fowler
wow
00:50:52
John T. Reuter
The theme that year, which I love, was a blast from the past. which is so appropriate now to have my, ah my what, 30-year-plus trophy there from when we made these very elaborate floats that we then would like pull through the parade. um And then when I was later, and so we did these with our neighbors on the other side the of the Christmas tree farm. And then later when I was in high school, um the neighbor there, Carol, who's our neighbor, Dr. Shervinak, she was a doctor who loved to do stitches and loved to sew.
00:51:20
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:51:21
John T. Reuter
And she and I worked on all of these. yeah
00:51:23
matt
Okay.
00:51:23
John T. Reuter
And she and i this is that is absolutely 100% true. She loves to do stitches and she loves to sew. And she would partner with me and we would make these outfits when I was in high school for these, she actually made theater outfits with my mom too for stuff that we did.
00:51:38
John T. Reuter
But then in high school, we made these these outfits together for winter formals. And so one of the things we made was I went and I thrifted these two really bright suits. This was the outrageous thing you were hoping I'd wear, Connor, that I let you down on.
00:51:49
John T. Reuter
If I come back, maybe I'll throw this on. um But one was like, no, I'm,
00:51:52
Conor Fowler
You didn't let me down, dude. You just, it just was a sleeper.
00:51:57
John T. Reuter
I disappointed all of us, but I'll i'll try to do so verbally on this, on the audio medium at least here.
00:52:00
Conor Fowler
perfect.
00:52:03
John T. Reuter
um So half it was like this blue plaid pattern, the other and I still have it and it's from over 20 years ago now. And the side is green thing, and then we we cut them in half, sewed them together, used the part that we didn't use create cargo pants with different colored pockets on it, And then added like a velvet collar to the whole thing and like on the sleeve, it was to smash buttons, right?
00:52:17
Conor Fowler
perfect
00:52:23
John T. Reuter
And so those are the first things I commissioned ever in my life were things like that were like these wild, crazy pieces that were to go to these dances, right?
00:52:26
Conor Fowler
so
00:52:33
John T. Reuter
But they were also about like expression and fun and like collaborating with someone. And she had ideas and I'd have ideas and we'd stick them together and come up with these things.
00:52:40
matt
Hey, wore a zoot suit to a friend's prom, and this was this was during the swing revival, which I fucking loved, and still love some of it.
00:52:40
John T. Reuter
So
00:52:43
John T. Reuter
that's awesome.
00:52:48
matt
Like, Brian Setzer forever. But, yeah, that that that trumps my zoot suit entirely.
00:52:51
Conor Fowler
Beautiful. Yeah.
00:52:51
John T. Reuter
No, that's super cool.
00:52:54
John T. Reuter
I had a m one time, i won them I thrifted a yellow Hawaiian suit. So it had like a Hawaiian pattern on the yellow of it, done to it, and then with like a tux. So it had the black pills and everything to it there too.
00:53:06
Conor Fowler
beautiful
00:53:06
John T. Reuter
sad But anyway, so same kind of, i that feels like in that genre. But I love those moments.
00:53:11
matt
Damn, yeah.
00:53:13
John T. Reuter
um and And, you know, it's a formal occasion. It's fun to do something that's over the top. um So the first thing I had commissioned from a bespoke tailor was when Edward Sexton was still alive.
00:53:24
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:53:24
John T. Reuter
I went to, who's a bespoke tailor in England, whose most famous first connection to Tommy Nutter, who is my al one of my all-time greats.
00:53:34
matt
Yeah, we have to talk about this after this discussion.
00:53:35
John T. Reuter
Okay. Okay. So I had a very Tommy Nutter-esque suit commissioned, which is actually, I was just back in London last month and I put some things to get tweaked so it's not with me here, but I have the other, but I have the other with me. So it's a, so it's a um so what it is, is it is a plaid suit,
00:53:56
John T. Reuter
um that has um that has the edging, the edge edge tape to it is what it's called, which is that like a little thing goes along the edge of the suit lapel and everything that is
Bespoke Suit and Tommy Nutter Influence
00:54:07
John T. Reuter
turned on the bias.
00:54:07
John T. Reuter
You cut it on the bias and there are reasons why you actually do technically.
00:54:09
matt
Oh.
00:54:10
John T. Reuter
So it's a contrasting um expression of the whole thing here. So here is the, this didn't need to get fixed.
00:54:15
matt
Right.
00:54:17
John T. Reuter
So I'll show it on camera here for those who are watching along here, but you can see what I'm talking about of how the, um of how
00:54:24
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:54:24
John T. Reuter
how it contrasts against the thing here.
00:54:25
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:54:26
John T. Reuter
And so this is the best. It's three-piece suit. um And it's based on a jacket that Tommy and Edward made together in the 1970s when they were working together in their shop.
00:54:30
Conor Fowler
wow
00:54:40
John T. Reuter
So that's the first thing I commissioned was this
00:54:42
matt
Right.
00:54:43
John T. Reuter
crazy three-piece Tommy Nutter-inspired dream suit, which you can see from, like, my crazy creations in high school is a parallel line. It's a direct line from that this of, like, loving these crazy things.
00:54:52
matt
Right, totally.
00:54:55
John T. Reuter
While I was in the studio, I mean, I love this is the stuff, you know.
00:54:56
Conor Fowler
That's amazing that you still have it all. Like,
00:55:01
John T. Reuter
that's what I say when you have stuff.
00:55:02
Conor Fowler
that's what I'm saying. That's amazing.
00:55:04
John T. Reuter
It's an experience, right? That you have this creation act then you still have this thing. And I used to even wear it when i was on the when I was on the Sandpoint City Council, small town in North Idaho.
00:55:14
John T. Reuter
I wore it i would wear it even then too. I got sworn in these bright green um corduroy Ralph Lauren polo pants that I was able to find for like 20 bucks at some store-defined sale.
00:55:25
John T. Reuter
So the same time I was having that suit made,
00:55:26
Conor Fowler
dude
00:55:28
John T. Reuter
um Fred at Taylor, I don't know, i'm saying it wrong here, but Fred and Lee, I worked on this project with them, which is another Tommy Nutter-esque suit, although this one comes by way of Ralph Lauren. So I saw a jacket, a jacket, um that was from my Ralph Lauren women's collection.
00:55:45
Conor Fowler
Wow. Yeah, dude.
00:55:46
John T. Reuter
Cause I, I watch all, the i look at all the runway stuff. I love like all that excitement, everything. And so I saw this jacket that had this contrasting patterns. And so I had them make me this one here that has a con.
00:55:58
John T. Reuter
It has a, it's herringbone with a contrasting plat with a pad on it here.
00:56:00
matt
That is that is so fucking sick.
00:56:03
John T. Reuter
And also the pockets are then turned on the bias here to these patch pockets, which is like the other one. And then the buttons are covered buttons with that plaid thing on it as well there too.
00:56:13
John T. Reuter
Yeah. um
00:56:13
Conor Fowler
yeah dude
00:56:14
Conor Fowler
That's like really like, that's like a really punk rock.
00:56:14
John T. Reuter
And this was...
00:56:17
Conor Fowler
Right. I feel like that's like, uh, um, dishes type shit.
00:56:22
John T. Reuter
Like that...
00:56:24
Conor Fowler
I mean.
00:56:24
John T. Reuter
That's... That's how I understand it. And so I'm glad that you say that. And and being with him. So it was very proper at Edward Sexton. and It was very like proper. But these guys, when I went to meet with Fred and Lee, who are Fred to do and Lee, um ah their business partners and run this tailoring firm that does like, they did all the costuming for the crown together, things like that.
00:56:39
matt
Thank you.
00:56:45
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm. I out Brett.
00:56:45
John T. Reuter
But they also done stuff like, um oh gosh, like they did some stuff for the most recent Wes Anderson movie. But anyway, when I went with them, you know So many people have these experiences of going having something made and they're just disappointed, doesn't live up to it because they have this imaginary idea in their heads of what they're going have and they're going to put on this coat at the end. It's going proper and trim. It's going to change everything for them um in this way. And it's not...
00:57:09
John T. Reuter
it's not It's not magic in that way. But I will say that my experiences have been magical because what I really desired was that collaborative spirit to go back, to be transported back in high school when I was working with my neighbor and we were creating this creation together here, right?
00:57:15
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:57:23
John T. Reuter
And so I go in with them and they're like, We're having to find the two pat if define the right two cloths to go together, right? And so Lee is throwing around books around the studio. and we' having these conversations and we find the right herringbone first, I think. And so they literally, you're not supposed to do this with these fabric books, right? They literally just cut it right out of the book so we can take it around to look at other samples.
00:57:45
Conor Fowler
right
00:57:45
John T. Reuter
And then i was like, let's just, which is very, which I think is very punk rock, I will say. um and we're, hope i don't get them in trouble because I don't think were supposed to do that. i' taking around And we're going through and trying to compare it to everything to find the one to find the right one for it to go with and figure out what's going actually match these things up.
00:58:01
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:58:04
John T. Reuter
And it was like the whole process was this collaboration and this dialogue and this thing. And the process was magical, right? It's that magic you have when you're in community that we keep talking about in this whole thing.
00:58:16
John T. Reuter
And so to me, um, I don't know. that That's what's exciting. That was the Edward Sexton one was, of course, getting something from a legend.
00:58:20
Conor Fowler
can. Mm-hmm.
00:58:23
John T. Reuter
um I worked with few different people there.
00:58:24
matt
Right.
00:58:25
John T. Reuter
I'm working with a new person there now. The person who did who really reworked it and did probably the majority of the cutting work under Edward's direction. He passed away right after my suit was finished. But under his direction was Nina Penlington has gone out on her own.
00:58:38
John T. Reuter
and Nina is incredible. and Nina now is doing her own stuff.
00:58:38
matt
Okay.
00:58:41
Conor Fowler
You're mad. a madman, dude.
00:58:43
John T. Reuter
And I actually have a suit that I think I'll be picking up in February from her that is a brown velvet um suit.
00:58:52
matt
Hell yes.
00:58:52
Conor Fowler
matt you're a madman dude
00:58:53
John T. Reuter
It's everyday velvet, which I am like super, I'm just super excited about and just pumped about. So anyway, those are my bespoke invent. I think I've gone all over the place there, but hopefully that's, I answered some question along the way.
00:59:04
matt
No, no, that's awesome.
00:59:05
Conor Fowler
That was, I mean, I have said that I hate the word journey a lot, but that was like a journey through your bespoke garments, right? I mean, sort of from beginning to end.
00:59:16
matt
Okay, so now my question is, how did you, how did you land on Tommy Nutter?
00:59:18
John T. Reuter
Yes.
00:59:21
matt
Like, I love, yeah I love, like,
00:59:22
John T. Reuter
How did become? Yeah.
00:59:25
matt
his style. Um, English tailoring for me personally is not my shit. Like I like things super soft.
00:59:31
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
00:59:32
matt
Um, and you know, not, not as structured, but, uh, but yeah, like, how did you land on, on that dude?
00:59:34
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:59:37
John T. Reuter
Mm-hmm.
00:59:42
John T. Reuter
Well, if you are obsessed with tailoring this wild, if you like the idea of taking two suit halves and plastering them together, and adding now to them right?
00:59:48
matt
Right, right. Yeah.
00:59:51
John T. Reuter
i I believe, because if you look at fashion, you will find moments where this happened over and over again throughout time. I think I was inspired by the derivative, um you know, the imitations of Tommy Netter before I ever knew who he was.
01:00:05
matt
totally right right
01:00:05
John T. Reuter
I don't think I just arrived at that context all on my own of like, oh, isn't this a cool idea? Obviously, I'm just steeped in like a culture and a world, right? And all these kind of things. i I saw Batman and I wouldn't have known that the Joker was, you know, with ah with Nicholson was um was a Tommy Natter suit at the time. But i sort of said like, that is a cool suit right there. I love those big lapels. I love that stuff. So it's all...
01:00:27
John T. Reuter
It's all stylistically the stuff that I loved.
01:00:27
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:00:27
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
01:00:29
John T. Reuter
And I don't think that's a, you know, sort of like my mom's favorite artists are Picasso, Christo, Calder. There are some others in there too.
01:00:39
John T. Reuter
Oh, those are my favorite artists too. What an incredible coincidence.
01:00:42
matt
Right, right.
01:00:42
John T. Reuter
right well Because there were art books lying around my house and there were all the artists of her favorite artists. So I flipped through them when I was young. It's the same thing with Tommy Nutter. He had so impacted fashion. He so changed how design worked in so many places from to the place of ah of a Ralph Lauren. Even when I'm getting inspired by a Ralph Lauren jacket, in a woman's jacket, I'm really being inspired by...
01:01:03
matt
Right.
01:01:03
John T. Reuter
downstream better. I just think that he was, so I think he was, all i think he was probably omnipresent as long as I cared about tailoring.
01:01:05
Conor Fowler
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
01:01:10
John T. Reuter
I think he was there. And then when you actually find the source, you're like, oh, this is the guy.
01:01:15
matt
Yeah. yeah
01:01:15
John T. Reuter
And probably like some kid listening to Eminem growing up forever and ever, white kid out in the suburbs, right? Listen to stuff and then suddenly like actually discovers like all the stuff he was listening to and goes, oh,
01:01:27
matt
Yeah.
01:01:28
John T. Reuter
This is the real stuff.
01:01:28
Conor Fowler
yes
01:01:29
John T. Reuter
This is the total different level of this stuff, you know?
01:01:29
matt
Yeah.
01:01:30
Conor Fowler
yeah that's exactly the That's exactly the example I was going to give. That's so funny.
01:01:35
matt
actually like might be my favorite part of, of being alive, not to get like weird, but you know, it happens to me a lot with music and clothes and like, you know, I'll hear a song or, you know, see something like visually that someone found and be like, like, Oh, a great example.
01:01:57
matt
I was watching a league of their own the other day, actually.
01:01:58
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:01:59
matt
And like, every time I watched that movie,
01:02:01
John T. Reuter
I'm sobbing. Yes, appropriately so.
01:02:02
matt
Yeah. And cry crying uncontrollably.
01:02:03
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
01:02:04
matt
But like every time I watch that movie, I pick up on something new from the wardrobe.
01:02:05
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
01:02:09
matt
And this time it was ah the Marla Hooch, the girl that they went to see in Colorado. She's wearing a like a World War II era or 20s to 40s, like U.S.
01:02:23
matt
Navy denim shawl collar jacket. And I was like, holy shit.
01:02:26
John T. Reuter
Oh, cool.
01:02:27
matt
Like,
01:02:27
John T. Reuter
right
01:02:28
matt
I saw this when i when it came out.
01:02:29
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:02:29
matt
you know i was like I think it came out in 92, so I was like eight or nine. And it's like, man, that could making that connection you know this many years on and being like, holy shit, that had to be something subliminally that like
Cultural and Media Influences
01:02:44
matt
came through later on in life.
01:02:44
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
01:02:47
John T. Reuter
No, that's absolutely. I think that's right. it is It is funny how much those things impact us that we don't even know. right it's just in the It's just in the water. And I think this is what, um in there's a whole set of dressers who I won't name, many of whom are my online close personal friends, but they'll they'll insist that they just like what they like in a purely aesthetic way.
01:03:08
John T. Reuter
And they were just drawn to it apart those things.
01:03:09
Conor Fowler
Right, right.
01:03:11
John T. Reuter
like, no, that's total BS.
01:03:13
John T. Reuter
There's no, that's not true. Everything happens within...
01:03:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah, dude.
01:03:14
Conor Fowler
I don't have any people who I look up to. i don't have any role models. It's crazy.
01:03:19
matt
Thank
01:03:19
John T. Reuter
That just means you don't know who's inspired you. that's just That's just not knowing, but you do.
01:03:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:03:24
John T. Reuter
And it happens within a context. And it's like, um you know, there's this, um oh, Derek Guy will say this, and I i like it and I hate it. The idea of clothing as a language, right?
01:03:34
Conor Fowler
e
01:03:34
matt
right right
01:03:35
John T. Reuter
um and And I'm like, that is true in the sense that he says it's all contextual and it matters like how things fit together and there's like context that matters. But then he'll say the second part sometimes, which like, you know, it's not like painting.
01:03:46
John T. Reuter
And I'm like, all you're telling me when you say that is you don't like painting.
01:03:47
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:03:49
John T. Reuter
Like you don't know very much about painting because painting,
01:03:50
matt
Right, right.
01:03:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:03:53
John T. Reuter
also has to take place within an artistic context. It it actually has a relationship to what happened before it.
01:03:56
Conor Fowler
Of course.
01:03:58
John T. Reuter
It actually has influence.
01:03:59
John T. Reuter
It's not just like you look at a painting and you just feel emotions in some intrinsic ways. You're influenced by all of this culture that got you there, right? All of these, and that's all around you. and and and And fine art has influenced, commercial art has influenced what you see every day on the packaging of things and what's around you.
01:03:59
Conor Fowler
you
01:04:14
John T. Reuter
And so your aesthetic appreciation of objects
01:04:14
Conor Fowler
Thank
01:04:17
John T. Reuter
are not just some intrinsic human characteristic. They are a intrinsic human characteristic tied to our ability to experience context, to experience history, to experience connection. um And that's what makes clothing powerful too, right, is that thing. But that's what makes...
01:04:32
John T. Reuter
anything powerful. i don't care if it's I don't care if it's faith or politics or clothes or or a Dungeons and Dragons campaign or or whatever you want to pick, whatever kind of, you know, the the world is interesting and fascinating, not intrinsically as a locked moment in time, but as part of a sequence of events, as part of an overall context, as part of what other people are doing. And then I would say,
01:04:58
John T. Reuter
It's equally true that when we get dressed, we dress for context.
01:05:00
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:05:00
John T. Reuter
We can't not dress for context. No matter what we want to say, we have to dress for context. We're surrounded by it. It's the water we're swimming in. It's easy to miss it like a fish in water because it's all you know, right? You're always surrounded by
Dressing for Context and Self-Expression
01:05:10
John T. Reuter
context. um But then also we dress for ourselves. We all dress for ourselves. um And that's undeniable too, right? that Both those things are true. I love these ideas of um there's this... um Okay, so there's this old, um I'm Greek Orthodox, Greek ranching family, um ah but I love, when I grew up, okay, we'll do a little biography into the story here.
01:05:31
John T. Reuter
This will be a long ways around. But when I grew up, every Sunday we would go to church, an Episcopal church, there were no Greek Orthodox churches.
01:05:33
matt
Bye.
01:05:37
John T. Reuter
And then in the evening, we would study a different religious tradition along with our neighbors. We'd all come together and we'd study a Jewish midrusha, we'd just study a Native American ah myth, or we'd study...
01:05:48
John T. Reuter
you know, any kind of, idea is there are many paths to God. There are many these paths of faith. there are many paths to holiness. And they, that these are, all these things are worth like understanding that there isn't just a, a singular vision here.
01:05:59
John T. Reuter
um
01:06:00
Conor Fowler
That's unusual, I think.
01:06:00
John T. Reuter
So and was, I think, I think it is unusual to be so steeped in one's own tradition and to value other traditions. But I think it's often where many people, think it's place that people can get to.
01:06:13
John T. Reuter
And I really credit my, mean,
01:06:14
Conor Fowler
That's what I'm saying. It's great, right? Like that is a great opportunity.
01:06:16
John T. Reuter
was i mean I was really lucky. i was really lucky
01:06:19
Conor Fowler
Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Faith and Complexity of Life
01:06:20
John T. Reuter
to have both that grounding and that exploration and being told that both have value and both are important.
01:06:24
John T. Reuter
um And so so anyway, that's my way of saying, so I love a variety of different faith traditions. And one of the one of the stories I love is a story of a Jewish rabbi who had in a pocket, he had a stone. And on one side was written, dust to dust.
01:06:42
John T. Reuter
And on the other side was rated, God created the world just for you. In Hebrew, obviously, right? So I'm paraphrasing. And the idea was that that faith, that that that that that holiness was in knowing both those things were true at the same time, that everything we did was the most important thing possible to do, and that everything we did was completely irrelevant and was just going to disappear in time.
01:07:05
John T. Reuter
And to me, so much of what's the greatest things in life is where we're talking about exists in those paradoxical moments where two things can be true, where we completely dress for ourselves, that that's true. And we completely dress for the context of what surrounds us and that both those things can be true at the same time. And the tension between them um is what brings richness and meaning to life.
01:07:30
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:07:32
matt
ha
01:07:33
Conor Fowler
That's what I say about Baltimore. Like, it's horror and... beauty, the intersection of horror and beauty is like hope maybe?
01:07:44
John T. Reuter
Well, that's the old Woody Allen joke right from the start of I forget what movie that we're not supposed to watch anymore. butddy But he says, there are these there are these two women in a cafe. And one woman says to the other one, the food here is terrible. And the other woman says, I know in such small portions.
01:07:58
John T. Reuter
And Woody Allen says, that's how I feel about life. You know, it's terrible. But also, why is it so short? And maybe that's how you feel about Baltimore. Like, oh, my gosh, it's terrible. Why can't I get any more of this place? I like, I want more.
01:08:08
Conor Fowler
Well, I'm just saying, like, there's so much, um
01:08:10
John T. Reuter
there's ah There's a connection there.
01:08:16
Conor Fowler
don't know, there's like so much suffering and so there also is hope.
01:08:19
John T. Reuter
Yes, you think that's very true, that they're that they're tied together, right? That suffering and hope are are um
01:08:23
Conor Fowler
Exactly.
01:08:27
John T. Reuter
are fundamentally intertwined. that's um
Restorative Justice and Personal Growth
01:08:32
John T. Reuter
um So all these, you know, there's this connection here. I... um my um My father was a defense attorney.
01:08:41
John T. Reuter
He actually died when I was very young, when I was in the the eighth grade, the beginning of the eighth grade year.
01:08:46
Conor Fowler
Jesus.
01:08:47
John T. Reuter
and And he was very much the, I mean, as you can tell from the stories of how he and my mother thought about faith and teaching us these things. He ran a, he was, when he died, died in a car accident um and where a woman who was,
01:09:02
John T. Reuter
on whatever mixture of things, drove through a stop sign and ran right into his car long as he was way to court. And we had to, he because read this Bible study for all the all the different ministers in town, we had to like let five different people speak at his funeral.
01:09:13
John T. Reuter
They shut down court, which you never do because you have to reschedule all the trials. It's a big deal, but everyone wanted to come.
01:09:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Right.
01:09:18
John T. Reuter
um Because my my father really pursued care. I remember my father taking me to go and like see if one of his clients, he's a defense attorney, right See when the client's stories were true. We'd like try to push a car up a hill and you could not do it. So it was like, well, that never happened. But we honestly always tried to figure out you know, he plea bargain most of these things out. And he always was trying out how to leave his clients better off, how to find justice there.
01:09:41
John T. Reuter
And so um and so when when he when he got killed by this this girl in her, you know pretty young, twenty maybe early 20s, maybe late late teens, but maybe I think probably, you know, somewhere in there, um the prosecutor comes and said, what do you want us to do? We'll throw the book at her. We'll, you know, we'll do whatever you want to do to punish this person. And my mother came and talked with us three boys, me and my two brothers about it.
01:10:04
John T. Reuter
And the conclusion that we all came to together and having this conversation about it was that what should happen is that she should have to go back to school, that she should have to go back and she, as long as she maintained like a grades and like kept going and like put her life back together, there would be no other consequence. There would be no need to pay restitution, cetera, if she would just actually put things back together.
01:10:26
John T. Reuter
um And to me, that gives it what you say. Like, there is no, and that's what would justice would be, right? The justice is not punishment. Justice is restoration. And I think that that's, I think that that's really true when you talk about pain.
01:10:38
Conor Fowler
you
01:10:40
John T. Reuter
and And so much of my life, like like this part of how i got into politics, was years later, i was a senior in high school and a set of kids got,
01:10:53
John T. Reuter
were were killed in a car accident. Not their fault. A car ran into them. My mother had been on the school board previously. So I sort of went away. My school was a disaster in this small town.
01:11:03
John T. Reuter
Just absolute awfulness going on here.
01:11:04
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:11:06
John T. Reuter
And um and their plan what was like they were going to give some of the kids honorary diplomas and not other ones. They were like, that the administration would show up and fight with these kids. So I just like, three weeks off school or whatever, and just like helped these kids like work through the system.
01:11:20
John T. Reuter
Cause I understood how to like navigate a system and how to get somewhere, right. Of how do you actually get through these systems here and get there. um And we were, we got them all honorary diplomas. We figured the thing out, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera, the whole thing.
01:11:36
John T. Reuter
And that's when realized like, Oh, I can use these school, these tools of understanding systems to get somewhere.
01:11:38
Conor Fowler
It was.
01:11:41
John T. Reuter
But I wouldn't have, it it was, it was, I, hope it i hope I think it was helpful to them and their families that I wouldn't and talk to the families and such too. And this what missed in high school. but But what I will say was, it was deeply significant to me because because it let me heal for the first time, you know, four years later after this event, five years later. um And I think that that really gets the truth, which is right, is that justice that...
01:12:06
John T. Reuter
hope that a better world often springs from terrible tragedy. often The bad things that happen to us, you know, I i had a wonderful childhood to that point, a magical childhood where I just really knew joy and like happiness mostly.
01:12:14
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:12:20
John T. Reuter
I didn't understand what pain was. I cared about others, but I didn't understand pain. And um I don't know. it's it is It is the worst thing that happened to me, period. It's the worst thing ever happened to me in my life.
01:12:35
John T. Reuter
And it also is the thing that's probably done the most to make me, in so much as I am a good person, it's been the most to make me a good person. And I think that those things are intertwined in that way.
01:12:43
Conor Fowler
You are a good person, man.
01:12:45
John T. Reuter
you know what I'm saying? don't want to overplay it, but you get the point of what I'm saying there is that
01:12:47
Conor Fowler
You're a good person, dude. You're a good person. You're a good person.
01:12:53
Conor Fowler
I do. is' This is fucking amazing.
01:12:53
matt
Yeah.
01:12:54
Conor Fowler
this is what Matt and I were just texting each other. This is going to be our most profound episode ever.
01:12:59
John T. Reuter
Tom, that's very kind of you to say.
01:13:01
matt
Yeah.
01:13:01
John T. Reuter
but
01:13:01
Conor Fowler
It's true, dude. You just, and you fucking put a bell on it. You wrapped it up. Like.
01:13:05
matt
Yeah. And like speaking, you know, going, going from what we were talking about with like, you know, early influences, like coming full circle, like that's, that's a perfect encapsulation of, it seems like what you do.
01:13:21
matt
So fuck yeah.
01:13:22
John T. Reuter
I mean, it is what I about. It is what i the it is what i care about is why i do what that is why I do what I do is because of that connection.
01:13:29
Conor Fowler
well dude and how like i never knew this like i don't know you that well but like all of that shit that you just said is like profound in ways that are unbelievable to me that have kind of changed the way that i'm thinking so like yeah you're a good person you just got to keep going
01:13:31
John T. Reuter
so
01:13:49
John T. Reuter
Well, I very much appreciate that. And i appreciate I
End of the World Outfit
01:13:53
John T. Reuter
appreciate the gentle suggestion that we need to wrap up here as soon as what I hear you saying there too. Like, that's a really, you put a really good blow on it.
01:13:56
Conor Fowler
Oh no, not necessarily.
01:13:58
John T. Reuter
That's a good way to end the whole thing.
01:13:58
matt
No.
01:13:59
John T. Reuter
I said yeah i mean, I'll hang out forever.
01:13:59
Conor Fowler
No, but it's like, how could we follow it? How could we follow it? What are we gonna say? We have some questions written. Oh, ah what happened to your last name?
01:14:06
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:08
Conor Fowler
oh
01:14:08
matt
it it It means that this is part one of probably a few.
01:14:13
Conor Fowler
Right, were you skater?
01:14:13
matt
So, yeah. Yeah.
01:14:15
Conor Fowler
Right. Like you we've done our, we've done our work here.
01:14:16
John T. Reuter
Was I a skater now a skateboard?
01:14:17
matt
Yeah.
01:14:19
Conor Fowler
And I think definitely that I am like in a better place than I was when I started.
01:14:21
John T. Reuter
Right. No.
01:14:24
Conor Fowler
sure.
01:14:24
matt
Okay, but, okay, so I think we should ask one more question, Connor.
01:14:25
John T. Reuter
Okay.
01:14:30
Conor Fowler
sure
01:14:31
matt
Which is, what are you wearing at the end of the world, John?
01:14:34
Conor Fowler
Wow, dude.
01:14:35
John T. Reuter
what am I wearing at the end of the world, which feels sometimes like it's closer than we think. Well, I'm glad you asked. As you know, i am a listener. i am a avid every episode listener.
01:14:46
matt
Holy shit.
01:14:47
John T. Reuter
and so And so, of course, I know the question's coming.
01:14:47
matt
Wait, have you, have you, right.
01:14:50
John T. Reuter
So not only do I know what I'm going to wear, oh, did I put it together on a rack here ahead of time so I'd have my show and tell everybody to answer the question?
01:14:50
matt
right
01:14:54
matt
Okay.
01:14:56
John T. Reuter
Well, yes, I did. Okay. and So let me tell you why what I'm going to wear to the
Clothing as Protest and Joy
01:15:02
John T. Reuter
apocalypse.
01:15:02
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:15:02
John T. Reuter
I will describe for the for the audio listener, which I'm an audio listener. I never watch the video usually. I just listen to the audio. I will describe. I have no fear. Okay. So... so My favorite type of vintage clothes are the ones where people have actually altered them in some ways. Everyone say like every vintage piece is unique because of the damage and the wear and whatever.
01:15:25
John T. Reuter
I don't care about that stuff. What I like is the visible mending or where they fixed it, right? Because there's intention, there's no intention of like,
01:15:29
matt
Okay.
01:15:32
John T. Reuter
Oh, like like I like my own patina because there's an experience or there's a story that I particularly know to it.
01:15:32
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:15:37
John T. Reuter
I like i mean like these corduroy pants are like all like scraped up here. Yeah, I did that. I have a connection to it. places I've been. But for vintage, I like the stuff where someone actually did something, a senior cord where someone drew on this in their stories there, an invisible mending.
01:15:50
John T. Reuter
Or my newest obsession, I was at Portobello Road Market in London last month, and I picked up this Vietnam jacket. um And this is made, so I learned about this for the first time.
01:16:00
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
01:16:03
John T. Reuter
So you two may well know lots more than I do. And so so feel feel free of things. But it's made from like the material of like maybe sleeping bag or maybe inner lining stuff.
01:16:11
matt
Oh, yeah.
01:16:11
John T. Reuter
And they would like this stuff like a tailor, like a little Vietnamese tailor.
01:16:13
matt
Yeah, it's ah it's a...
01:16:15
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
01:16:15
Conor Fowler
Wow.
01:16:15
matt
Yeah, it's called a poncho honor.
01:16:15
Conor Fowler
Wow.
01:16:16
John T. Reuter
Tell me. A poncho liner. Okay. And they would take these to tailors in Vietnam and have them actually like make them into jackets of various types for them.
01:16:18
matt
Yeah.
01:16:23
matt
Yep.
01:16:24
John T. Reuter
And then they'd get like, they have embroidered stuff. So this one has fast on the front. But what I love about this one that I that i found, I was looking a bunch of these, three of them or whatever, they didn't have one, is this back, which has the unit, has the place they were stationed.
01:16:30
matt
Oh, shit.
01:16:35
John T. Reuter
And then it says, I participated in Vietnam War Games, 70, 71, and it has a peace sign on it here.
01:16:41
matt
Right, yeah.
01:16:42
John T. Reuter
And so this is your this is we're approaching, you know if we're getting later in the war there. And it's, just think, here's a soldier, right, out there,
01:16:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Still. Yeah.
01:16:51
John T. Reuter
in a horrible condition. right some of A lot of these jackets will have saying on them like, when I die, I'll go to heaven because I've already lived through hell or something along those lines there.
01:16:58
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:16:59
John T. Reuter
um what and and like Absolutely true. um ah And and to be in um to be in that place and to have this act of rebellion of peace, of putting a peace sign on the back of your jacket that you're going to wear around casually while you're actually in a war zone, while you're a soldier, while your life's at risk, to take that stand.
01:17:14
Conor Fowler
yeah yeah aor
01:17:18
John T. Reuter
And so at the end of the world,
01:17:21
Conor Fowler
God.
01:17:22
John T. Reuter
I want to be wearing something that is an act of protest.
01:17:22
matt
Thank you.
01:17:26
John T. Reuter
That is an act of, I want to keep my humanity in those moments and still believe like in fighting back. And I want to remember of this soul i remember this soldier and what he decided to do with his jacket of like reaffirming the humanity of everyone, saying this is not just what's happening.
01:17:40
John T. Reuter
This is a silly war game. I shouldn't be here. And I believe in peace. Like that affirmation, I want to be wearing that in the in the thing there. I'm going to wear it with my Jake's,
01:17:51
Conor Fowler
Of course.
01:17:52
John T. Reuter
um my So this is by Jake's, a guy out of London who I just who i just um ah love um his shirts. And so this fun shirt. I am obsessed with fun shirts, which is, you know, I didn't wear one today embarrassingly.
01:18:01
matt
Okay.
01:18:04
John T. Reuter
But this is, ah this is ah you know, these shirts made out of multiple fabrics that he made.
01:18:07
Conor Fowler
you
01:18:08
John T. Reuter
um it's my It's probably the best fitting and most fun to wear one. So it's super comfortable, which i like. But also, you know what? In times of... um In times of trouble, in times where everything's going to hell, right, we've got to have a little fun.
01:18:23
John T. Reuter
We've got to actually have like some joy and some celebration and still find the bright spots. That's how i feel about these Trump years we're in right now. Like we cannot just live in doom. So in the apocalypse, we've got to still have fun. i want to have my fun shirt on.
01:18:33
matt
HAHA!
Acknowledgments and Influences
01:18:34
John T. Reuter
thing I want to be like having some gallows humor with the with the jacket, but also have that with the thing. Okay. So then this is a scarf. um It's a capital scarf of the solar system. um that has like all these planets on it here. it has Earth. It has all the planets of the solar system on it. My wife got this for Christmas. And I like this because for two reasons.
01:18:56
John T. Reuter
One, it puts things in perspective. right We just talked about that idea of like God created the world just for me, and it's all dust to dust. In terrible times, it's nice to have something that reminds us of our place in the world, right?
01:19:07
John T. Reuter
That we are small. This is a small moment in the universe of time and all those kind of things. But also, also it's from a loved one, right? Also, it's a gift.
01:19:18
John T. Reuter
Also something reminds me of my wife. And I want to have my wife there right next to me throughout the apocalypse. i want to have a connection to people that I love. And so in some ways, it's both sides of that rock there. It's both a sign and a connection to love and a connection to and and the matter that everything we're doing is all that matters and that love and our connection to each other is all that matters and with this tiny speck in the universe.
01:19:27
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:19:34
John T. Reuter
And then I'll just throw on a pair of Orslo fatigues that I wear basically every day. So that's what I would, and then like probably good boots so I can actually get through things. Or maybe I'll throw on some loafers so they're to take on and off because, you know, who knows what you're good occasion you're going to find yourself in, um which I have like put new soles on.
01:19:50
John T. Reuter
They're like, you know, commando soles on my Alden loafers. So something like that. But that that is what I would wear to the end of the world. Let's do that.
01:19:57
Conor Fowler
That's probably the most thorough one.
01:20:00
matt
That's a damn good kit, too. Damn good kit.
01:20:02
John T. Reuter
but
01:20:03
Conor Fowler
Agreed.
01:20:03
John T. Reuter
I'd layer too because you've got layer in any situation, a fashion apocalypse. So I'd throw, I have a tweed Noah coat that I'd throw over the top of that whole thing, Patrick McTweed.
01:20:11
matt
Nice. Hell
01:20:13
John T. Reuter
I'd throw the whole thing just to keep warm. And I'd put on the hat probably by Bailey Goldberg who makes the best beanies of anyone in the world.
01:20:15
matt
yeah.
01:20:20
John T. Reuter
So that's probably how finish it off.
01:20:22
matt
That's.
01:20:22
John T. Reuter
All right. That's the conclusion.
01:20:22
Conor Fowler
complete.
01:20:23
John T. Reuter
That's the full thought there of how it all comes together.
01:20:24
matt
Dude. Hell yes. This is, this has been fucking awesome. out of curiosity, have you listened to every episode?
01:20:31
John T. Reuter
know if i but so no know i haven't listened to every episode because um connor and i were chatting before we started here and um and i was going back through and i saw some was like wait why i haven't i listened to this yet so i've got some to listen to still but i would say i'm probably at 90 is what i would say um all of it too oh
01:20:44
matt
Okay.
01:20:48
matt
Nice.
01:20:49
Conor Fowler
Wow.
01:20:49
matt
Yeah.
01:20:50
Conor Fowler
That's more than anyone should ever be. I mean,
01:20:52
matt
Yeah. I wasn't sure.
01:20:53
John T. Reuter
so
01:20:54
matt
ah wasn't sure if it was going to be self-indulgent to ask about it, but I was definitely curious.
01:20:55
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:20:58
John T. Reuter
No, it's, I mean, look, the like genuinely, what you guys are doing is a great, is a great pod.
01:20:58
matt
So,
01:21:05
John T. Reuter
And it's also like a great um oral history, which I just love an oral history project. And in some ways, that's what this whole thing is. It's like, it's capturing people in these moments. And it's capturing, you know, you guys talked about, oh, talked about your favorite, what my favorite one was.
01:21:18
John T. Reuter
And I was thinking about it. And I think my favorite is when John came on and interviewed the two of you. And one of the things you guys talked about on that episode was about how this pod is like, you want to just like interview everyday people, not just people are like super clothes horses or proof for this, but like people just about like their lives and who they are and how these things connect.
01:21:25
Conor Fowler
you
01:21:34
John T. Reuter
And um look, i love I love clothes. So I'm glad that so much of it comes back to clothes all the time. Of course, it gets me like engaged in the whole thing. But also this connection of everyday people talking about this thing.
01:21:45
John T. Reuter
I think, I don't know, like um you're saying, oh, this is most profound one.
01:21:45
Conor Fowler
you
01:21:49
John T. Reuter
i don't know. There are so many profound moments that happen when people just have honest and real conversations with each other.
01:21:56
matt
Yeah.
01:21:56
John T. Reuter
And oftentimes those moments are not like you over the head profound, but but quieter, you know, and more there. And I think that's the...
01:22:03
Conor Fowler
And that's what just did.
01:22:04
John T. Reuter
The the show certainly has moments where you're there's a zinger. That's really clever. Oh, I love love what that person said. That's something I'm going to write down in my in my journal or whatever. But a lot of the great moments are just these moments where you where you hear people talk through their life and be listened to.
01:22:19
John T. Reuter
You know, you um well, I guess I talked about my life and I was listened to.
01:22:20
Conor Fowler
you just did
01:22:23
John T. Reuter
And that was very that was a very...
01:22:24
Conor Fowler
That's what you just it. Yeah.
01:22:25
John T. Reuter
Very kind of nice.
01:22:25
Conor Fowler
And I, I mean, it's, it's, it is like a community journalism, oral history, whatever. I mean, we're just trying to keep ah going basically.
01:22:39
John T. Reuter
You said like Terry Gross was your model, but Terry Gross doesn't interview everyday people. Terry Gross interviews celebrities and tries to help us understand their everyday people. And I think the power of this show is the inverse.
01:22:46
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:22:48
John T. Reuter
It helps us understand that everyday people are actually like celebrities, ah you know, that have powerful things to say.
01:22:52
matt
think it was, i was ah i think the Terry, Terry Grossling, I think probably was like something that I said. And it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily like the format.
01:23:00
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:23:03
matt
It was the way that she.
01:23:05
John T. Reuter
Oh, I got I'm sorry. Yes, absolutely.
01:23:06
matt
Yeah. Yeah, but but like her, like I love Mark Maron's podcast too, like RIP.
01:23:11
John T. Reuter
enjoy
01:23:12
matt
You know, just the way that it's a conversation and it's not just like, hey, we have a bunch of bullet points and we want to talk about all this shit.
01:23:16
John T. Reuter
Yeah.
01:23:20
matt
You know.
01:23:20
John T. Reuter
And he shows up as a real person on it too, which is what you guys do too. So anyway, that's my little, my ah ah closing with gratitude here for what, for the project you guys are on.
01:23:23
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:27
matt
Well.
01:23:28
John T. Reuter
I love it. Please keep going. Of course, I'd be thrilled to come back, but thrilled to even get to come on once. Truly an honor. Very, very humbling.
01:23:35
matt
Dude. well We really, really, really appreciate it
01:23:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:23:39
matt
um
01:23:40
Conor Fowler
I've never almost cried, but I almost cried. So that's like, which I'm a ah weeper certainly, but you know, it was like this profundo.
01:23:47
John T. Reuter
I was gonna say, I'm gonna watch Cool Runnings after this and I'll be in tears, so it'll be fine.
01:23:50
Conor Fowler
Right? Yeah, exactly.
01:23:51
John T. Reuter
itll you know
01:23:52
matt
um All right. Well, John, um shout out where people can find you, if you would like. And who whoever else or whatever else you would like to shout out.
01:23:59
John T. Reuter
Oh, sure.
01:24:03
John T. Reuter
Okay, let me shout out.
01:24:05
Conor Fowler
Thank
01:24:05
John T. Reuter
I will say you can find me. So once a year, I post a FitPic on Instagram. You can find me at John T.
01:24:10
matt
Well,
01:24:11
John T. Reuter
Reuter um there. And you can see whenever I post my FitPic for the year, you can go see the one i did last year. There'll be another one sometime this year, probably. um And and but I welcome dialogue.
01:24:21
John T. Reuter
I love to chat with people. um You can find me on various discords. And then... um I work for the League of Conservation Voters, a LCV, that does incredible, i i am ah ah my part of that is one small piece and a larger thing and a larger network of people called the Conservation Voter Movement around the country.
01:24:29
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
01:24:40
John T. Reuter
And it is it is one of the, you know, one of the, most profound experience my life to get to work with these people are doing powerful conservation work. And I will say every day they give me hope that politics is not merely going to mean that I show up and nothing changes, but that actually things change. And I see them changing things every day. And that's a point of inspiration for me. And then I will, and then, um,
01:25:00
John T. Reuter
The third one I want to say, oh I'll give a little shout out Strong Towns, who on the board of, who does city planning work. Love them.
01:25:06
Conor Fowler
so
01:25:07
matt
Thank you.
01:25:07
John T. Reuter
Go check them out if you care anything about city planning or how walkable neighbors or anything else. Go check out Strong Towns. Chuck Marone and the staff there are doing incredible things. And then finally, where I'm donating my personal money right now, um but I just want to put a plug in, is for an organization called Interact.
01:25:24
John T. Reuter
And INTERACT is an advocacy or organization for intersex individuals. um and And frankly, this is a part, I think the LGBT community plus community is under attack right now.
01:25:36
John T. Reuter
I think people um who do not conform to the expectations society, these are people who often are given simplistic gender markers of birth that do not fully capture who they are.
01:25:36
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
01:25:45
John T. Reuter
I think that right now is the time to stand up for the people who are being attacked most. This is one of those groups of people. um They were attacked before this moment. They're continuing to be under at fire. And this group works with young people to help them organize and create connection with each other and community and also to push back.
01:26:01
John T. Reuter
um So that's my shout out for interactive things check out.
01:26:04
Conor Fowler
Thank
01:26:06
John T. Reuter
So those are my four things. Come look at a silly picture from me every year. Check out LCV, check out Strong Towns and check out Interact. Those are my ah ah tips. Those are my, those things I want to promote today.
01:26:17
matt
Hell yeah. Well, we'll throw the,
Episode Conclusion
01:26:19
matt
uh, the links to each of those up too. Uh, when, when we get this episode out, but, uh, yeah, everyone, thank you for listening. Um, we are at apocalypse studs on Instagram. Um,
01:26:32
matt
Apocalypse Studs at gmail.com. If you want to send us an email, I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
01:26:40
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Flower at Real Connor Flower. Maybe Connor Flower. I don't know. It's hard to remember.
01:26:48
matt
Anyway, you can find us. Thanks once more, John. This has been fucking awesome. And we will see y'all next Wednesday.
01:26:58
Conor Fowler
Ta-da-da!
01:26:58
John T. Reuter
Thank you.