Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello, good morning, and welcome to a special early morning episode of Apocalypse Duds. ah We have with us in so well, sort of in studio, Daniele Pisioneri of the Academia Nationale de Sartori, which is
Daniele Piscioneri: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: uh, tailoring school in Italy. and amazingly we have secured this interview. So we have some questions which have been vetted actually. Uh, so I think that they will be interesting.
Conor Fowler: So welcome.
matt: Yes.
Daniele Piscioneri: Hello, good afternoon. Thanks. Yes, it's a pleasure for us to be here to be part of a this interview. And yes, and now I am the president of ah the Italian Taylor Academy, the National Academy of Italian Taylor.
Daniele Piscioneri: And yes, we are part of the history of Italy in Netherlands.
Conor Fowler: Yes. Yes. Amazing. So we want to get into that. um If you could tell us a little bit about the school's history, um including the fact that it was founded in the 1700s, is that correct?
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, it's correct. Totally correct.
Conor Fowler: that That is amazing because that's older than America.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is, yes, yes. theres a horror then the design This was born thanks of the Pope Gregory 13.
Daniele Piscioneri: And it was ah in the beginning like a University of Taylor.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: And also in the beginning, ah in the 1575, have a very, very big history. We are the oldest association in the history of the textile in and the the history of the of Italy.
Daniele Piscioneri: And when are we were born, the the Pope gave also to us a special heat quarter. And the whole he first heat quarter was the church of Santo Mabono.
Daniele Piscioneri: that
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Daniele Piscioneri: that This church is a the protector santoo bono is the protector of the in Italy.
Conor Fowler: Wow. So that must be a beautiful space. It must have been a beautiful space.
Daniele Piscioneri: Unfortunately, the church is ah still ah here, but from the last 50 years is under renovation because it was passed many problems during the century.
Conor Fowler: Yes.
Daniele Piscioneri: It was the first quarter of us of the University of the Taylor.
Conor Fowler: That's amazing. My cousin who lives in Rome, lived in Rome, was always talking about how long the renovations took because they would be they'd be digging and digging and they would find ancient Roman ruins.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is the problem.
Conor Fowler: And so they would have to stop, you know which is amazing. I can't even imagine that.
matt: I'm going to go back to my eyes.
Daniele Piscioneri: we We like to ask that but this is a problem, but at the same time, that this is not a problem because this is is a a big thing.
matt: I'm going go back to my eyes.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: But did a the renovation going very slowly here, but this this is normal for a city like Rome.
Conor Fowler: Amazing history.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: for such an ancient city for sure. So how does somebody become a tailor?
Daniele Piscioneri: Sorry. her
Conor Fowler: How does someone, yeah. How does someone become a tailor? I mean, how does someone end up at the school?
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, after the school, after the three years of this school the our tailors, our students starting to work in the tailoring.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: Some of them starting to open their private tailoring, but they they became a tailor practicing more, more and more because it's not an easy job.
Conor Fowler: I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: You must learn always ah and always so also when you grow up you never stop to to learn something more this is the this is the important things and also in the factory in the other tailoring they must to also to to steal by the haggis to the other master plan no because they must to go there and sometimes the work
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: maybe it's also boring because ah you make the same things every day every time more than 100 times but this is this mean that you are making ah always to to make it in the perfect way this is the yes this things
Conor Fowler: Yes.
Conor Fowler: Yes.
Conor Fowler: Yes. yes
matt: So ah are this are the students, um you know, when they when they graduate from the academy, is it one of the things where they they have to be able to, you know, make a jacket or a suit from beginning to end?
matt: is that Is that kind of the goal?
Daniele Piscioneri: after the After the three years of the school, they are able to make a suits, 100%.
matt: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: But it's normal that some of them are better than others because it's ah like a normal school.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: Some of them are excellent because they are more they also put us more work during the three years of the school. they have also maybe something more, now because of the special things are the same and in the different kind of the school.
Daniele Piscioneri: But at the end of the school, they they are able to make something. Some of them better than others. This is a is the thing.
matt: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: For this reason, after the school training, ah having a stage, having a some time in the different tailoring,
matt: ah
Daniele Piscioneri: They must learn more and they must to make something.
matt: okay Okay. does the academy specialize in a certain type of tailoring, you know Roman, Milanese, Sicilian, etc.? um or do you teach kind of a broad spectrum of Italian tailoring?
Daniele Piscioneri: <unk> cause us fish pi and they love jaen yamoli board e actually a shapi No, no, no. that we we We learn the how to cut, how to sew, but then after the tailor goes in the place when in the typical factory, typical tailoring has whole idea of the tailoring.
Daniele Piscioneri: We have i' a room and maybe we like to make some special way
matt: Okay.
Daniele Piscioneri: or maybe it's different from the Nepal tailor yeah and and also different from the Sicily. But we follow also around idea of the style of the tailor.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is the things.
matt: Okay. That makes sense. And how many students are enrolled at any given time?
Daniele Piscioneri: your student Every year we have average average maybe 10 new students ah for the for the first class. Then, yes.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: So it's
Daniele Piscioneri: in In total, total we because we have different courses for men and for women, for cats and for girls. And the you know we have ah around students year for the oldest school.
Conor Fowler: and
Conor Fowler: okay. Yeah. So it's a, it's a, it's like not that big of an operation. It's like,
Daniele Piscioneri: It's not too big because we we teach to make.
Conor Fowler: ah law school.
Daniele Piscioneri: It's very important that is ah for us is important to follow the students. If we put 25 people in the class for the master's title, it will be impossible to follow all all of them. now how to do, how to cut is very, very difficult just for the reason, because also we have students from everywhere around the world.
Daniele Piscioneri: Maybe we have a student from Italy, students from Australia, from China, from Korea, from Japan.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Daniele Piscioneri: And we must also to follow all of them and to to grow up all together the same time.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's amazing. That sounds like ah that sounds like a lot of ah support
Conor Fowler: It sounds like they're helping your students a lot. Um, which I don't know. I mean, I have been in graduate school and they don't help you out that much.
Conor Fowler: So, um, how many students would you say come from a tailoring family?
Daniele Piscioneri: Oh, these ah these things are not direct. Sometimes nobody of them Not at all.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: Sometimes one, two, because ah because it's not direct connection, because people are in the family of Taylor, not to and maybe sometimes because the student ah learn in the tailoring, like to learn by the dad, by the grandfather, they teach them direct.
matt: Oh
Conor Fowler: I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is ah this is a really a school. if If you want to learn also, if you don't know nothing about tailoring, maybe in the family, your dad is a doctor and I want to i want to learn, I want to become a tailor.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: he
Daniele Piscioneri: This is a not direct connection.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, understood.
Daniele Piscioneri: Maybe maybe it's ah it's more frequently that the people already working the tailoring want to have some course of the spec special specialization, of course, in the academy after they are already tailored, but they want to learn more about the trouser, about the cut, about the hole, something more.
Conor Fowler: i see
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
Conor Fowler: So then what's the coursework like? I mean, is it like trousers 101? Yes. ah
Daniele Piscioneri: the The academy, we have different courses. We have the course for men and for women.
Conor Fowler: he
Conor Fowler: yes
Daniele Piscioneri: Every course during three years. And every year we we must to learn something special for the tailor.
matt: so
Daniele Piscioneri: in the first In the first year of the School of the Men, of the men course, we must they They must to make the different things at the end of the year, like a trouser in the first try, like also the jacket put in the first try. Then,
Daniele Piscioneri: then
Conor Fowler: Oh, I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: yes
Conor Fowler: That's so that's very impressive.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, and then one year is a lot because some of them doesn't know how to work, how to do nothing, really nothing. They're starting from zero.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: And for this reason, they we put a lot of work also to teach to teach them. the importance is that at the end of every year, they must to to make something that the we have already put in the program of the year.
matt: Bye.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is important for the reputation also for the academy. If at the end of the first year you must to to put a suit in the first try, you must do it.
Daniele Piscioneri: For pass, for go, at the second year.
Conor Fowler: I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: For the women, courses is different because ah or master tailor like to make different things depending also from the from the student because it's almost all muscle together, one second and the third year, because they growing up all together, depending on what is the able of the student.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
Conor Fowler: I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: And we have also the CAT course, but rarely the tailors starting the CAT before and finish the first year. They they start in the the course of the cut around ah the third year. That is a good part of their also...
Daniele Piscioneri: the course. Path. Path. Then is ah the right time to start how to cut as soon as...
Conor Fowler: I see. i see. ah So maybe this is a foolish question, but are you a tailor?
Daniele Piscioneri: this decision yes
Conor Fowler: Okay. And did you go to that school? see.
Daniele Piscioneri: No, because and my dad was also in the past was president of the academy and yes and they it was in the last 10 years ago, more almost 10 years ago, he was a member of the academy and he was a president.
Conor Fowler: i see
Daniele Piscioneri: we had our tailoring and the I was ah inside my factory. Now I am more the businessman than a tailor because it's...
Conor Fowler: sure You're the that administrator,
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, not only administrator, but now the tailor is not anymore the the man working at home, working in the factory.
Conor Fowler: right
Daniele Piscioneri: We must to go around the world to travel. to meet ah new people, to meet a new ideas, also to meet new new generation of Taylor too, to meet them, to change ideas, to change also.
Conor Fowler: to recruit right.
matt: Right, how many tailors are you know at the academy or a part of the academy?
Daniele Piscioneri: What is that? Oh, around 100 more or less between Master Taylor and the Young Taylor, Junior Taylor.
matt: Okay.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, man and woman.
matt: Okay.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Daniele Piscioneri: In Italy. Okay.
matt: Yes. And, you know, given given the state of tailored clothing around the world, um are there you know are there ah new generation of people coming up, you know, kind of ah all the time? Or is it, is ah you know, is the art of tailoring, you know, strong in your opinions?
Daniele Piscioneri: he after together us so one chat i the camera to turn traffic if before this is ah This is different. and before also we didn't have a lot of opportunity to travel and all to to find more client and also because here detail as ah enough for also water do now also because ah we must to we want to make more now and also it's nice that we can make something special for some special person around the world.
Daniele Piscioneri: For this reason we like to travel to find also better opportunity, also to grow up and like our brand also like a person.
Conor Fowler: Even if.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: So i guess we wanted to ask you questions about you tailoring that you have experienced. Um, has there been anything really odd that people have asked for that people have requested? Like, I don't know, seven button jacket, that something.
Daniele Piscioneri: No, this is a normal request. so not to
Conor Fowler: but
Daniele Piscioneri: Sometimes it's happening that the some of my clients wanted to make suits to match with the new car, with a special car, with a special edition car.
Conor Fowler: Oh boy.
Daniele Piscioneri: the suits matching with the interior design of the car or maybe with some details of the car that he will use ah maybe a special Roller Royce because you can custom it and maybe making also the suits for the car something there
Conor Fowler: wow So that's that is very special indeed.
Daniele Piscioneri: yes yes yes now we see
matt: All right.
Daniele Piscioneri: the the factory that making making the textile can make also something special, more than the past, because they can put maybe your name in the the material, in the tissue.
Daniele Piscioneri: They can put also, i don't know, the gold, the the real gold. Sometimes also they want to make ah a special bottom, you real gold.
Daniele Piscioneri: All the bottom real gold to put on the jacket with maybe
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: with the initial, some, something special from them.
Conor Fowler: Monogram.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Real gold buttons.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
Conor Fowler: I'm adding that to the notes.
Daniele Piscioneri: The problem that is that it's too heavy. Sometimes you see that it's very heavy to, and and the people don't need to know about that to take the jacket.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right. That's really funny.
matt: but Have there been any any things that a client wanted that you just would not do?
Daniele Piscioneri: For me, the the case that they say no when some of my clients tell me, please, this is a jacket from another tailor.
Daniele Piscioneri: I like it. It's a lot.
Conor Fowler: Yeah,
Daniele Piscioneri: Please, ah can you remake it? And the for sure, I said, no, please. If you like the jacket, if you like the style, how would you wear, please go to your tailor.
matt: right
Daniele Piscioneri: He will make He already made
Conor Fowler: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniele Piscioneri: because must also us to the whole idea of a image.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Daniele Piscioneri: The people come to me not to remake the same jacket, but to make my jacket in a ea a way to to wear the jacket, the right way for him to wear the jacket.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: For this reason, important is and not the first,
matt: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: but maybe when the new client comes to me, the first jacket ah is important, but the more important are a the next jacket, because the first one is a try for both of us, no?
Conor Fowler: Right,
Daniele Piscioneri: Because I must learn from him.
Conor Fowler: right. right
Daniele Piscioneri: I must also to understand himself, when you want to wear the jacket, and which kind of jacket, which kind of color you want to wear. This is a really is a we must to find that a connection really for this reason that the tailor is very important. and and And this is a more important when you must to make a jacket for very important people that maybe a king, maybe a ministry, many a president.
Daniele Piscioneri: the image of them is very important for them, also for us.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: It's a balance also. soul We must to follow the balance also.
matt: do you have a Do you have a particular house style that you've made over the years?
Conor Fowler: Yes.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, i am la like an association yes for my my my brand,
Daniele Piscioneri: the typical things is the the teeths very big We like to to make the revere of the jacket more big than the normal cut.
Daniele Piscioneri: Maybe a lot.
matt: okay
Daniele Piscioneri: You will see, if you see my jacket around, maybe you will say, maybe this is a Hilario suits. It happened sometimes also between my client.
Daniele Piscioneri: They doesn't know about each other, but okay. you Are you wearing the Hilario? Yes, how to know, how to know. Yes, I saw the big lapel.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, this is it or my signature, my big signature, yes.
Conor Fowler: Right. So that's your signature.
Conor Fowler: Yes, very good. I like that. They say in America, you're John Hancock because John Hancock signed his name on the Declaration of Independence really big.
Daniele Piscioneri: And those some nice for myself, I make them
Conor Fowler: Anyway, that's a little...
Daniele Piscioneri: bigger because we must to to make some interest in the people. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but the people must to look at me.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is the thing.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, right, right, right. Well, so why though? Why the big lapel? I mean, yeah.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes. It's too big. Yes, it's big, but maybe some of them, wow, it's nice. is I never saw something like that.
Conor Fowler: Well, it I mean, it frames the face, right?
Daniele Piscioneri: Let's do it.
Daniele Piscioneri: right
Conor Fowler: ah I don't know. I mean, it's like you don't want a little lapel because it's like it doesn't match with your head.
Daniele Piscioneri: to lu see if family mean Yes, it doesn't match. Yes.
Conor Fowler: Yes. Yes.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes. yes
Conor Fowler: So I guess to round out, um we're going to ask about prominent tailors who've graduated from the school.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes. We have ah some of them. is a They already after the school, after the three two years of the school, they are already able
matt: Bye.
Daniele Piscioneri: who start their second life, the life of tailor.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: Some of them starting opening their brand, opening their tailoring, starting to go around the world to make ah a suit for first, maybe to the family, but also to a new client, to client.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Daniele Piscioneri: And some of them maybe going to the big brand that also now the big brand, also important brand, wanted to have a tailor inside the factory to check, to god ah to control ah the the process.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: Supervise. Yeah.
Daniele Piscioneri: this Now we had the last last year, our graduated tailor. We have important an important interview with Medellin de Zegna, that is a or copie for the for textile and also for men's style in the world.
Daniele Piscioneri: to have an interview because they maybe want to have him inside the process of the the suit making yes
Conor Fowler: Yes, which I mean, having that kind of expert ah supervision is very important, I imagine.
Daniele Piscioneri: a lot
Conor Fowler: um So lastly, we wanted to ask about the Golden Mannequin Award. um If you could tell us a little about that.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, because ah in the in detail in the the academy, from the new academy, that they we we like to arrange also the contest and event every year.
Daniele Piscioneri: And from 2011, we every two years, because one year is for men and event, one year is ah for women contest, we arrange the Golden Munchen.
Daniele Piscioneri: And we have a member of our academy, Lucia Lacolognata, that is, she's an important master tailor that is the director of this ah this contest.
Daniele Piscioneri: And we arrange the contest and we like to...
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: we we like to but
Daniele Piscioneri: when you only give the general canissa memory Every region runs a contest. Then the best 10 tailors in Italy will make the final contest.
Daniele Piscioneri: It will do it it ah will be one week work in academy from the morning to the late night.
Conor Fowler: wow
Daniele Piscioneri: And at the end, they must be able to make a suit. For women. For women, yes.
Conor Fowler: you guys should make you guys should make that a tv show right last taylor last taylor standing taylor wars something like that they put it on and e for sure
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes, it's like a reality. like a reality
matt: Yeah.
Daniele Piscioneri: Why not? Why not?
Daniele Piscioneri: Important for us because is that the main sponsor for this contest is Carnet, that is ah one of the most important companies that making a materials, textile for women, and they make also textile for men.
Daniele Piscioneri: but for us it's a very, very important partner. it They are the unique and this is an important sponsor. following us from maybe six years.
Daniele Piscioneri: This is the the third contest and they follow all the process also from the contest and in the region. And yes, at the end, tailor that will win this contest will have a important also reputation.
Daniele Piscioneri: because it's ah is's very hard, it's not easy. And we like also eat the the winner will will show the the ability also the cutting, the style, the creativity of what they also he's a stla a the captivy of
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: what they want to do in the future also because sometimes they are young but sometimes they are also not ah not very young we have a fixed age that that you can try to make this contest till 40 years old men and woman and this is an opportunity for them also to have something for their person also like tailor
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Daniele Piscioneri: like a tailor
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that sounds total. I mean, that sounds like a whole, think it would be a good TV show.
Daniele Piscioneri: Sometimes could be boring, no?
matt: Thank you.
Daniele Piscioneri: Because the same things every time. And...
Conor Fowler: Well, that's the the magic of editing.
Daniele Piscioneri: um yeah Sorry?
Conor Fowler: You know, that's the magic of editing.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: They could show them making it once, even though they make it 100 times. I mean, but that is that is like a craft kind of.
Daniele Piscioneri: Yes.
Conor Fowler: That's like, That's like how you get good at anything is you do it 1000 times.
Daniele Piscioneri: yes Yes, yes. is the This is the for this reason, for some of them, maybe a for the people staying out of this world, it will be boring, no? Making always the same things, same things every day, a looks boring. But for the worker is every day also making the same things, but changing the material, changing the color is a different thing.
matt: Right.
matt: Well, thank you so much for coming on um and having a having a chat with us and talking about the Academy. um if If our listeners want to you know want to follow you and and kind of see the work that you're doing, where can they do that?
Daniele Piscioneri: you Sartoria Ilario.
Daniele Piscioneri: Ilario.Sartoria in Instagram.
matt: Okay. Wonderful.
Conor Fowler: Can you spell that?
Daniele Piscioneri: name of my dad.
Conor Fowler: Or, okay.
Daniele Piscioneri: Ilario. Yes.
Daniele Piscioneri: i may ialio was the name of my dad <unk>io
Conor Fowler: I see, I see.
Daniele Piscioneri: yeah
Conor Fowler: And it's odd because I know another person with that name.
Daniele Piscioneri: really?
Conor Fowler: Yes, ah he's but he's Mexican.
Daniele Piscioneri: Mexican, oh!
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's interesting. But ah anyway, it's been so nice to speak with you. I mean, this has been in the works for a long time. So thank you so much to the both of you for making this work out.
Conor Fowler: um
Daniele Piscioneri: the play
Conor Fowler: We really appreciate it.
Daniele Piscioneri: Big pleasure, Mandy! We are waiting for you when you will be in Rome to see in reality the school, the academy
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: I will take you up on that and you will regret it. but So thanks very much and have ah have a good weekend.
matt: Thank you.
Daniele Piscioneri: Have good weekend, you too. And the thanks again, really.
