Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. I probably have said exciting too many times, but this will prove to be exciting.
Conor Fowler: Our next guest comes highly recommended from friend of the show, John Leisurely Loafing. um And so this has been in the works a little while, but we are pleased to welcome Daniel Z. Baraka to the Apocalypse Duds studio.
Conor Fowler: Hello?
DB: Thanks for having me.
Conor Fowler: Hello.
matt: Yeah. Thanks for coming on, man.
DB: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: I didn't expect you to have a British accent.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: So I'm really fucked up now.
matt: but
DB: but I have heard a few people say that and a always, I'm always like, I think actually the first time I posted something was when I was on TV and Leisurely Loafing actually messaged me and he was like, whoa, that accent threw me off.
DB: And I said, it's not quite British. I'm actually Congolese from Central Africa.
Conor Fowler: That's yeah.
DB: But yeah.
matt: okay
Conor Fowler: Because I figured with your last name, i was like, perhaps this person is not from Nashville.
DB: Yeah.
DB: yeah i think Yeah, I think there were hints.
Conor Fowler: um
DB: There were definitely hints that I was an American.
matt: Right, right.
DB: ah but
Conor Fowler: Yeah, exactly.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: so
matt: So wait, say where you're from one more time.
DB: um from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
matt: Okay.
DB: It's like dead center in the middle of Africa for no for those listeners who may not know.
matt: Awesome. Yes. Oh yeah.
DB: um But yeah, so it's...
matt: Right. Right. And now you're based in Nashville.
DB: Yes, I am based in Nashville.
matt: Okay.
DB: It's a year and a half that I've been here, but I've been in the US since 2012. First came to Indianapolis, and then I was in Texas for a little bit, and then in Nashville.
matt: That's cool.
DB: So it's been a few places, but yeah, just...
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: One little tour. Mm-hmm.
matt: So what, what, uh, what brought you to the States?
DB: Oh, ah ah so this is, it's, um, it's not as long a story as it, as it should be, but the, the, the Congo itself is a very like unstable area of the world, um, because it's rich and when you have money, it's, uh, it's usually a problem, especially as a country.
matt: Right.
DB: And so it's always been at war and, um,
matt: Right.
DB: In 2012, my dad's job was getting very, very dangerous. And so we had to ask asylum to the United States. And so we moved. That's pretty much what we did.
matt: Wow.
DB: Yeah.
matt: All right. All right. Well, ah to to get into things, um what are you wearing today and and what's the weather like in Nashville right now?
DB: Sure.
DB: Well, the weather natural is disappointing.
matt: Same in Atlanta.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Same in Atlanta.
Conor Fowler: you know
matt: same in atlanta
DB: yeah Yeah, I'm like, what the hell is going on? Temps are not dipping. It's still 80 degrees. ah So I'm wearing just this ah Oxford button-down cloth with butcher stripes from ah Spear and McKay.
matt: Yeah.
DB: And... Yeah, and I think some like fatigues. I'm wearing some linen fatigues from Buck Mason on the bottom.
matt: Oh, nice. Nice.
DB: And they're fantastic. But i I wanted to pick something that had. I knew we were doing this on video, so i was like, I need to pick something with a pattern. i think it's just, it keeps things fun.
matt: Yeah. That's a great shirt.
Conor Fowler: It is a really great shirt. It's a standout shirt. Um,
matt: Yeah, I love a really fat, striped Oxford club.
DB: yeah
DB: Yeah, no, 100%.
Conor Fowler: yeah, we're hard to come by.
DB: Yeah, that's... ah yeah that's
Conor Fowler: I think that like larger patterns generally, um, I don't know what it is They're easier to work with. They're like more sturdy sort of.
DB: Hmm. Interesting. I think I've found them harder to work with, but more interesting, you know, like, cause I think like sometimes, especially like if you pay attention to like other, um, so some people who have written about like fashion and stuff, they're always like, well, you're the scale of your pattern should match the scale, the size of the man or whatever.
DB: And
Conor Fowler: Well, that's like sort of advice, right?
matt: Oh.
Conor Fowler: Like it kind of makes sense if you are a bigger guy to wear bigger houndstooth, dogtooth, whatever, um and not be wearing something that invites a a negative comparison, right?
DB: yeah.
DB: Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, 100%.
Conor Fowler: Like, I don't know if you've watched a Arrested Development, but there's this character, Lucille Bluth, and she tells her daughter who's wearing these elephant earrings that she should take them out because she doesn't want to invite the comparisons.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah,
DB: I love that. i think I might keep that, actually.
Conor Fowler: it's serious.
DB: take it up you don't want invite the comparison but um yeah uh i usually say to hell with those rules and so i usually favor ah a big part i like a big bold pattern um
Conor Fowler: Right. So it's like, go on.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
DB: Some of them are too big that I really can't wear them because if I wear them on a coat, I can only have two of the pattern before like the whole coat is covered because i'm ah I'm not a very large man.
DB: And so, yeah, butcher stripes are like top for me.
matt: Right. like
matt: Yeah, like, I love the idea of those, like, basically horse blanket plaid jackets, but one, won they're heavy as hell.
DB: Yes.
matt: And in the south, as you're aware, you know, it it doesn't really get as cold to wear that. But also, again, you get like, if you're not ah size 42 plus, you get like one and a half of the pattern and it just doesn't really make sense.
DB: yeah yeah yeah i usually avoid those that is so true um it's a shame that it doesn't get as cold in the south i've been but i i the last place i was before nashville was texas and so being in nashville i had i had hopes for some reason
matt: Yeah, yeah.
matt: Right.
DB: that it would be I'd get a few more colder days or colder months.
Conor Fowler: ah
matt: Right, right.
DB: And i have been so disappointed. It has not been great.
matt: Nashville has some of the most ridiculous weather patterns of any place I've ever been in my life. Like, uh, I sold with the Nashville flea for like a year and a half. And, uh, man, like the first, the first time we, we did it, a friend and I did it like the wind on, i don't, maybe it's just the elevation, but like it, the wind wrecked two of our tents.
DB: Yeah.
matt: It blew down our mirror and broke. And then it would just like rain out of nowhere. And this was basically every month at the fleet. I was just like, what the fuck is going on?
DB: That sounds like Nashville.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
DB: It really sounds...
matt: it
DB: Yeah.
matt: It really does, man. It really does. like it It was almost like a Florida version of weather, but like way windier.
DB: Yeah.
matt: And I'm just like, yo, what is this place?
Conor Fowler: Very bad.
matt: Jesus.
Conor Fowler: What is this? What is the menswear scene like in Nashville? I mean, I have no idea. i um i went there once as a boy, like.
DB: Oh, yeah. that's ah that's a very good That's a very good question, Connor. um The menswear scene is Very small. And I think like Nashville in general is a very small city. I remember when I first came here, I ah went out to lunch with a friend with a person I'd met on Instagram.
DB: And he's one of the most popular stylists out here in Nashville. And he told me that everybody knew each other and that your reputation was like everything.
matt: Right.
DB: Because if you did something in this small group, like everybody would know it by the end of the the day. But the whole city just feels very much like a village. It's tiny. The communities are tightly knit.
DB: Everybody knows each other. But even within that small world, the menswear world is a lot. It's even smaller. There are some people who are they're like the fashion kids.
Conor Fowler: Sure. Mm-hmm.
DB: And then obviously the menswear, which two separate categories. But um so... There's starting to be a few more menswear brands actually that are present, which is which is good.
DB: um There's obviously one of the biggest Buck Masons in the country here in Nashville.
matt: Right.
DB: And then there is Sid Mashburn opened his second shop here in Nashville, which is actually like two minutes away from where I live. and um And then there's like Stagg or other, a few brands and then few meetings.
DB: There's a person called Manny and Manny ah runs this small club called ah the Commonwealth. And I think that's the biggest like presence of menswear. Like if you're, if you come to Nashville and you want it to be plugged into the menswear community of Nashville, you need to get plugged into the Commonwealth run by Manny.
DB: And that's pretty much it. But, If a person landed tomorrow and they had interest in menswear, I'd probably hear about them before the end of the week.
matt: Right.
DB: You know, if they had on pair boots, Michaels, I would probably hear about them.
matt: Yeah.
DB: I would know. Like, I'm like, yeah, there's a new guy who is wearing pair of boots, Michaels in Nashville. So would just know it's that small. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, it feels, it feels, I mean, so i guess Baltimore and Nashville are probably approximately size, but like, it feels that way in my experience, almost everywhere.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: It's a very small scene. I mean, even in New York, I think it's a small scene.
DB: It... it It's cool in that way. Yes. I think I was just in New York ah after a really long stint of not having gone there. And I realized how small it was. You know, I went to like two events and I ran into the same people at those things.
DB: And like, it's small and it's very tightly knit. But that's, I think that's the beauty of like menswear. But I think like it's the it's the sheer amount of people who are in those groups that actually changes like from New York compared to Nashville.
DB: And Nashville like, 10 people or 15 people max versus in New York, you have like hundreds or like two hundreds.
Conor Fowler: Sure. Yeah.
DB: you know Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Not like the supporters of the Baltimore Ravens, right? Or whatever. It's not like sports team or like even a small club.
DB: Yes.
matt: There was a menswear dude based in Nashville that like I just knew through Style Forum back in the day. I think menswear musings is or was his account.
DB: yes
matt: like I can't remember his name to save my life. but yeah like I remember you know him being very well dressed and me not really thinking that Nashville was that type of place.
DB: uh,
DB: yeah.
matt: like I know it's got style, but it's not exactly a tailored clothing city.
DB: No, it wasn't. I think he was one of the very few and he has since moved out of Nashville actually.
matt: Oh, has he really?
DB: no
matt: Damn.
DB: Yeah, i think I think he's in Kentucky. unless my
matt: Okay.
DB: i could be wrong about this, but I think he moved out. um But he was one of the very few people who were really, really into the Manzor community, along with Manny.
matt: Gotcha.
DB: um And like they'd have these ah they'd have these meetings with this small club that Manny had started. And so, yeah, that that was like the heydays.
matt: Right.
DB: not but magic but I think Nashville is still in its heydays.
matt: Yeah.
DB: So it's like it's just very much in its infancy.
matt: Yeah, totally. And I mean, the, the, the vintage scene is, is he huge and like very well regarded. You know, it's, it's music city for a reason. And like, you know, I'm a big country music person.
DB: Yeah.
matt: And so I know that modern artists aren't really like dressing to the nines, like, you know, back in the day, but you know, from spending a significant amount of time in Nashville, there's a lot of very stylish people.
DB: No.
DB: Yeah, there's ah there's a very specific aesthetic to Nashville, I think. and like And when people come to Nashville very often, actually, they do play into that aesthetic themselves.
matt: Right.
DB: like if there it is like Whether it would be women with the bachelorettes and so the cowgirl aesthetic with the hats and the glittery cowboy fits or musicians.
matt: Right.
matt: Right.
DB: Lots of like, obviously, i don't want to to draw. it's a lot more... um There's a lot more variety and a lot more nuance than I thought before I moved here.
matt: Yeah, totally.
DB: and Because before you move, you yeah I had this impression that it was a ton of like country music. And then I came and it was oh no, there's actually so, like all the genres are very well represented Nashville.
matt: hundred percent
DB: Same for ah few that you don't have to talk about. But um yeah, ah ah you get a good you get a good sample of different genres and same thing with culture too.
matt: Totally. Totally.
DB: Yeah.
matt: It is a cool place to to visit and spend a little bit of time. And like, you know, the the size, it being the size it is, is it makes it easy to get around and like kind of, you know, it's pretty easy to navigate for the most part.
DB: Yeah.
matt: Although whatever the, like one of the, uh, interstates is, it's not 75. I can't remember, but it's the one that kind of like hits I-24 and goes goes around the city, and like the perimeter.
matt: I fucking hate that interstate.
DB: Yeah.
matt: It's the worst. The worst!
DB: I'm going to disappoint you, but I know one of my worst, my my biggest character flaws is that I just, I'm terrible with the name of highways
matt: Right, right. It's the one that goes to the airport, whatever the fuck that one is.
DB: and directions.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
DB: Yeah, that one. They're all terrible.
matt: God. Yeah, yeah.
DB: ah right
matt: it it is
Conor Fowler: Well, car travel generally is horrible.
matt: It is some of the...
Conor Fowler: So,
matt: It's true. It's true. Yeah. Ugh.
Conor Fowler: well, to keep things, no, I was just going to keep things on topic, which we love to do on this show, of course, um you, it's hard to pin you down, right?
DB: i i want to, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's like photography, menswear, which one of those preceded the other?
DB: Hmm. I think menswear has always been a big part of me just as a person for as long as I can remember. I think the very first thing i ever remember liking was menswear.
DB: Like this is like when I was four years old.
Conor Fowler: Something in particular, something general.
DB: um I think I was probably about three or four years old from what I can remember.
matt: Oh,
DB: And i had i had these v I had shoes. I was really into shoes. i this I had this patent leather shoes that I had named after Malcolm Lynch, who who was an actor, and know who was a character from a um from a series of books.
DB: called SAS. And I had named my shoes after that character because we had this one movie that we would watch and I thought he was very, very stylish. And I remember just being very much into clothing from the movies I was watching. And then I was really inspired. And then I got really inspired by the the ninjas and the Asian movies, the Asian Kung Fu movies and how they'd wear white socks with black shoes and stuff. I think I always just...
DB: I've always had an eye for what people were wearing.
matt: Right.
DB: And I've always had very strong perspective about what I was wearing, which made me a very painful kid to like dress. It was just painful for my parents and my siblings.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Right.
DB: But that's just, that was the very first thing I ever loved. So I think that's definitely came before anything else.
matt: Yeah. Is your dad a stylish dude?
DB: Yes, very much so. He's very much into clothes. Like,
matt: Oh, that's cool.
DB: Yeah, he was a banker and he was like, he would dress to the nines. He would wear tuxedos after 5 p.m. And yeah, he he he was...
matt: Right, right, yeah. Yeah, that classic classic kind of guy. Okay.
DB: Yeah, but also he was very much into fashion itself, not just menswear. Like he would know, was very well versed into like French designers, ah French designing houses, ah whether that was like ah Pierre Balmain or Martin Margila.
matt: Okay.
DB: And it was like, he was amazing. Like he told he told me, he would talk about these things, not necessarily as in like Daniel, sit down and learn about these, but he would just mention them so much around me that i they they left a big impression on me.
DB: ah Yeah.
matt: That's really cool.
DB: So to this day, I'm very much not just into menswear, but I'm still like very much into just fashion as as an art form um and as a pillar of culture.
Conor Fowler: Yes.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. I feel like, you know, over the over the course of the past, I don't know, 15 years or so, like. the tailored side and the fashion side, like they're no longer diametrically opposed.
matt: Like it's, it's cool to me, you know, not everybody mixes and matches or whatever, but like if you're into clothing, there's no denying that like designer high end stuff is, is artwork.
DB: Hmm.
DB: Mm-hmm.
matt: And that like, you can find, you can find some sort of like appreciation or inspiration from that aesthetic, even if it's not necessarily your own.
DB: Yeah, that's very, very much, that that's very true. That's how I feel about that.
matt: Yeah. It's cool to see.
DB: Yeah.
matt: It really is.
DB: Yeah. So, Connor, to answer your question, it was definitely, definitely menswear before anything else. Anything.
matt: And when did you start doing photography?
DB: ah So i was doing I started doing photography when I was working for Chick-fil-A. did but and this long stint at Chick-fil-A and i was starting to do marketing for Chick-fil-A.
matt: Oh, shit.
DB: And part of marketing these days is like always there's a photography element to it.
matt: Right.
DB: And obviously everybody was using phones at the time, but I just...
Conor Fowler: Sure.
DB: ever the perfectionist i wanted to get a camera and really get into like uh compositions and try to shoot things that perhaps would get the attention of of uh corporates chick-fil-a and they would they would like hire me or something i don't know because i was as this time i was just working at a restaurant level but i was doing marketing for the markets of indianapolis actually yeah
matt: Right.
matt: Oh, that's cool.
DB: Yeah, so that was ah that was sweet. But that's how I got into photography. And then obviously now when you have a camera on, you just want to shoot, you shoot as much as you can. And I realized how much I loved it. And also how much of men'swear i how much of menswear I loved just because of photography, of good photography.
matt: Right. 100%. Right.
DB: This was like, yeah, this was at the time when ah the team at Drake's, the team at Drake's with Matt Woodruff and...
Conor Fowler: No, that's a good point.
DB: um And what's his name? God. Well, it was Matt Woodruff and gosh, can't remember. but But the team at Drex would post this picture of all of them sitting outside the shop.
DB: And they would they always looked cool.
matt: right
DB: They always looked really relaxed. they had They would always pop up on my ah Pinterest. And this was like when I really, I was like, oh, this is so cool. I love what they're wearing, but I just love the photos.
DB: i love the I love the campaigns of... uh, the Ralph Lauren or the 1980s Ralph's like all of those things. I realized that that was a big part what I loved about men's wear as well.
matt: Yeah.
DB: And sir so to have a camera in my hands, liking clothes, i was like, Oh, this is, it's easy.
matt: yeah Yeah. I mean, the, the Ralph, like Ralph really set the bar for that, that type of campaign.
Conor Fowler: Amen.
DB: Yeah.
DB: Oh yeah.
matt: And, you know, I remember the Drake's that Drake's era very well too. And they were, you know, they were kind of like, i don't know.
DB: Yeah.
matt: I feel taking some influence from that, that time period of Ralph um and realizing that like the visuals have to match the, you know, the vibe of the shop and the clothes and and all of this plays into like a, you know, all of it plays and ties in with each other.
DB: Yeah.
DB: Yeah.
matt: And, you know, not not a lot of brands were doing things like that when Drake's really started, you know, going hard with it.
DB: No, yeah. And I think even over the past two years, I think brands have been doing that a little bit more. But back when Drake's was doing it in like, I don't know, I can't remember like 2016, 2018-ish, like world building essentially was not as common.
matt: Mm-hmm.
DB: Like there were only a couple of brands that were doing it.
matt: Right, right.
DB: ah
Conor Fowler: Right. It's new It's like sort of invented by Ralph, like,
DB: And but Drake...
DB: Yeah, it was, yeah, right? And Drake had this way of doing it in such an accessible way. almost looked like it was just dudes hanging out, eating good food, and like, but wearing sharp clothes.
matt: Right.
DB: that That was just so fresh and so cool. It was almost like they were worlds building, but in incognito modes. Like, you were not, you didn't know that you were being influenced, but you were fully, like, being influenced.
matt: Right.
DB: And I just loved, I remember falling absolutely in love with that. oh But yeah, but that, But that's what made it stand out. Because J.Crew had good inmate imagery, but they didn't...
DB: did At that time, like in the 2010s, they didn't really have... They weren't really building a world. You know, like it was...
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: one
DB: There was no... there was no You couldn't define it. You couldn't define, oh, that's J.Crew's world or whatever. You know, they had good imagery, but it's a completely different game.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like how different, how different was it from Land's End or LL Bean?
matt: Right. and
DB: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And I mean, like to, to I'm saying like to someone who's not like read to this scene, like I think that they're all kind of Americana to like brands, you know, that's just there.
Conor Fowler: sort of general outlook.
DB: yeah it just always felt like they didn't they just didn't have a stronger perspective as drake's or obviously the king ralph lauren you know ah you just
matt: Yeah. Which is wild for a company as big as Crew.
DB: yeah
matt: You know, but, but also, you know, from, from working in the industry, um, not for them just in general, but like their men's, the men's side is a drop in the bucket for their business.
matt: Like, you know, the women, the women's but pretty much.
Conor Fowler: For all of them, right? i mean, for almost everyone.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Like, like women's clothing is, is so far ahead of in sales that like, it's not even fucking funny.
DB: Yeah. That makes sense.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I wonder what the numbers are, right?
DB: That makes sense.
Conor Fowler: Because like, there's a reason that big box stores like don't really do men's clothes at all. I mean, Target does a little bit, but for the most part, they're just like,
Conor Fowler: an afterthought.
matt: I mean, like, you know, it's kind of like kind of like going into thrift.
Conor Fowler: It's
matt: There's 25 different women's racks and like categories and whatever. And there's four men's and you're just like, cool. Uh, yeah, this, this takes me 15 minutes to look through the men's stuff.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: really hard to be a man.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: We have to put up with ah indignity after indignity.
matt: Right.
DB: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: Right. Men's rights.
DB: But...
matt: I'm just kidding. Just kidding.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, right. yeah
DB: But I also, I'm also wondering though, if it has to do with just how also how men shop in general, you know, you know, like it's, yeah.
matt: Oh, I think that's a huge part of it for sure. Cause I mean, we talk about this all the time, like, you know,
Conor Fowler: That men are just like in ah inattentive shoppers are like sort of lazy.
matt: right. The three of us are not the target men's market for the most part. You know, that's why we, that's why we shop places, you know, well like, and you know, shop sometimes places like Drake's or or Buck Mason or whatever, because it's like,
DB: No. Yeah.
DB: Yeah.
matt: You know, i like I care about the fabric. I care about how well something is made. Like I'm going to destroy it eventually. It needs to hold up, you know, at least a few years before I do that.
DB: Yeah. But also I think like, I don't think even a lot of men care about the ah the construction of their garments, but you can see even in the way it was advertised back in the days, like when it's menswear, it's ah people speak to the to the the the durability of the garments.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
DB: Like they're like, oh, this is tough.
matt: Right.
DB: It's tougher than, I don't know, like bison skin or whatever. um but what and But when it's women's, you develop you're you're painting this like fantasy. like, oh, imagine you are this person and stuff. And so there was a lot more attention was getting put into like ah women's marketing and women's world building.
DB: Then the men's was like, oh, yeah, cool. We did just need something tough. And that's kind of how men shopped.
matt: Right.
DB: It's like, oh, can I wear this whenever I'm doing everything? It's like, yeah, you can.
matt: Right.
DB: Oh, cool.
Conor Fowler: And that's the thing, right?
DB: That's all I need.
Conor Fowler: It's like a garment for literally every occasion. It's not possible.
DB: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: the You know, and
Conor Fowler: It just doesn't work. and Because you can't have like a ah sweat tuxedo
DB: Yeah. And so, yeah.
matt: yeah, like, I don't want to sound too cliche, but dudes want every single piece of clothing to be like a Navy blazer.
DB: Yeah. Like it works for everything.
matt: Like, yeah, yeah. Like I can throw this, you know, i can wear these fucking Wrangler cowboy cut jeans.
DB: Yeah.
matt: I can wear them to church. I can, you know, i can wear them to work on the car.
Conor Fowler: Dress him up, dress him down.
matt: Yeah. i can I can put on ah my my suit jacket and wear them to dinner at the world's worst steakhouse.
DB: Yeah, but you know what?
Conor Fowler: That's my, I was going to say that's my like Dickies pitch.
DB: Yeah, go ahead.
Conor Fowler: Cause I work in schools, right? So kids are writing on my pants with marker anyway.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So it's like, it kind of might as well be Dickies.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like I think that that's a,
DB: Might as well be Dickies, yeah.
matt: Yeah.
DB: No, 100%.
Conor Fowler: Right, that's and that could be their motto.
matt: That... Yeah, i was going to say, that should be their slogan. Might as well be Dickies.
DB: ah
Conor Fowler: Because if you press a crease in them, they look like trousers.
DB: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's they're you know any any work band like that is essentially what came out of the chinos.
DB: But...
matt: like a
Conor Fowler: Right, it's designedist it's designed to look like that.
DB: Mm.
matt: Yeah, totally.
DB: Yeah.
matt: I wish they made a 100% cotton version, goddammit.
Conor Fowler: Me too.
DB: Petition to please make 100%. Yeah.
matt: Yeah, ben davis makes Ben Davis makes a similar pan in All Cotton occasionally, but they're never fucking in stock.
DB: please
DB: yeah
matt: And they really don't give a shit.
DB: So maybe you just wonder what what's going on in these brands, like in their meetings, you know, they're like, oh, this is this product people everybody loves. Let's just never make it.
matt: all of All of the salesmen, and I don't mean to be sound ageist, but all of the salesmen and people that work at these companies are fucking 100.
DB: like
matt: And they've been in the they've been in the business for 50 years, and they think that it still operates the same way that it did in the 70s through the 90s, you know, the golden years.
DB: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
matt: And, like, they have zero ideas.
DB: yeah guys that's that's 100 true but it's been it's been refreshing though to i don't know whether refreshing is the right word but it's been interesting to observe the shift with social media growing and like all the the brandification of everything how now every single brand wants to have wants to build a whole world and you're like dude you're just selling glazes you don't need to build a world
matt: Zero. Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: the old guard.
matt: right Yeah, yeah.
DB: Like, you know, it's like not everybody. It's like, oh, well, everybody's doing it, but not everybody has a very strong perspective. So very often you can clearly see who is copying from who or and whether that's whether that's a problem or not, like that's that's for you to decide.
DB: But um I don't know. Some of it bothers me a lot, like about so about the about the modern states of menswear.
matt: Yeah, same here.
DB: But also, i was going to add to the versatility of pieces, is how you can wear your dickies everywhere.
Conor Fowler: Hear, hear.
DB: I think for me, it's still... it still influences how I choose my pieces or like it still like dictates my style very often, which is why I wear so much ah velvet, s slipp so many velvet slippers.
DB: I wear velvet slippers because I can wear them with everything.
matt: Right.
DB: If I had just, if someone asked me, what are you going wear for the rest of your life? I'd be like, yeah, just give me some velvet slippers. I'll take them to the gym. I'll work i'll work out in depth. I'll wear them with my sweatpants and I'll wear them with a tux.
Conor Fowler: You don't think they're too, like, dainty?
DB: Anything in that. on I don't mind it. I don't mind the daintiness.
Conor Fowler: I just thought that they doing were not, like, I thought that they were, like, delicate, basically.
DB: Oh, no, they're not. um
matt: No, if you get a well-made bear, yeah............................
DB: They're not. They're solid. Yeah, they're solid. They're very, very solid.
Conor Fowler: Interesting.
DB: um And obviously...
Conor Fowler: Maybe I have to add this to my list.
DB: Yeah, gets get some velvet slippers. You like the you will not be disappointed. um Bowhill and Elliot makes a good one. But then i like also i like to get the ones that aren't um satin lines anymore.
DB: Like with the quilted the quilted interior, I don't like to get those as much anymore. I've moved on to the leather lined ones um because they're just they they handle moisture a little bit better.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Because you wear socks, right?
matt: Are you a...
DB: Yeah.
DB: What'd you say?
Conor Fowler: how matt
DB: I'm sorry you broke up.
Conor Fowler: you saw You're wearing these sockless, right?
DB: Oh yeah, always. I'm an animal.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. let's
DB: like
matt: Yeah, so... Man, socks are the fucking worst.
DB: I'm an animal. I am an animal.
Conor Fowler: There are people who are like mandatory sock wearers and like, I don't know how you could wear loafers with socks.
matt: I...
DB: i don't I don't try to argue with them. I'm fine being called gross, but I don't i don't share shoes with anybody else.
matt: Right, right.
DB: so
matt: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Conor Fowler: That's what I'm saying.
DB: They're my shoes, so I'm going to fucking wear them if I want.
Conor Fowler: Right. what matter what matter What does it matter to you?
DB: Yeah, I always...
matt: Right, socks are a fucking sensory nightmare.
DB: man.
matt: like i feel Like, I feel like my feet are suffocating.
DB: Oh, 100%. men
matt: I
DB: ah hundred percent
Conor Fowler: Unless the socks are made in America, American trench.
matt: i i mean, American Drench are mostly the socks that I wear when I
Conor Fowler: Yeah. And they are fucking nice.
matt: when i do
Conor Fowler: this the the the hope The hype is real, but it is...
DB: American, I haven't tried them, but...
matt: They're, I mean, they're, no, no.
Conor Fowler: Well, they're not sponsoring the show, but they are good.
DB: ah
matt: no Yeah.
Conor Fowler: like Because Matt knows everyone because it's such a big ah community.
matt: i've I've been wearing their socks since Jacob launched the brand in 2012. Yeah. twenty twelve yeah Yeah.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: but
matt: They're, they're they're fantastic. Fantastic socks.
DB: Yeah.
matt: A great product. And like, I do wear socks when I'm wearing like boots or, you know, if if I have a ah market that I'm doing like
DB: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: Well, boots, it's like you'd be a psychopath to not wear...
matt: Yeah, this is true.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's with a boot, right?
matt: This is true.
DB: yeah
Conor Fowler: and
matt: Yeah, I'm not wearing a work, not wearing a work boot sockless, but like, yeah, or like I wear them, you know.
Conor Fowler: ah kind of is the
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: slide my naked foot into my Timbs.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: You know that something has gone awry if you're wearing boots with no size.
matt: Yeah.
matt: But yeah, the the minute that I can take off my socks and put my sneakers back on is like, like otherworldly.
DB: Yeah. No, 100%.
Conor Fowler: I just really fallen in love with my Boston's like, I never thought that I would have Birkenstocks. And then I did, and now I have them, and I feel like I could never, ever, ever live without them.
DB: No, I think ah lot a lot of people don't understand.
Conor Fowler: So I'm aware of those thoughts, of course.
DB: and And this is like the reason why I'm i'm in loafers and more importantly, like slippers 90% of the time. But anything that I don't have to lace or that I don't have to wear socks with, I'm like right there.
DB: 90% of like, you're going to find me. Um, ah it's just easy for me, clothing, as the I live in the older I get, the more this becomes true. I want it to be easy.
DB: Um, and sometimes that doesn't come off with the, with the outfits I put together. Cause some people find them a little bit too intricate or they think I put so much thought in it, but like, it's like, no, I'm picking the easiest thing that I can wear.
DB: And then I walk out the house.
matt: I mean, isn't that kind of the whole isn't that kind of the whole point?
DB: I throw in the little slippers. that's that's what should That should be the point. To me, that is still the point.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
DB: That's still the goal.
matt: Like, like i don't I don't know about you, um and as a photographer, actually, you might have a pretty good perspective on this, but like the coolest people that I see on a regular basis are
DB: It hasn't changed.
matt: are like super old people that have just been living in their clothing for the past 30 years. And it's like, you know, the, the guy, it might not fit great. It might not be like, you know, uh, like the, the world's best shit, but it's like, Oh, you've had that tweed jacket for fucking 40 years.
DB: Yeah.
matt: You've had that, you know, that Wrangler denim shirt under it or probably equally as long. And then, you know you're wearing a pair of chinos and a pair of, you know, Penny Whipers.
matt: And it's like, yeah, that I mean...
Conor Fowler: Like you have to wear stuff for that long to really make it worthwhile, I think.
DB: Yeah.
DB: Yes, that's not that's what makes me the saddest about my big wardrobe is that I'm afraid I will never be that cool. You know, I have so many clothes that need seven lifetimes to reach the level that some of those older guys have in the comfort of their clothes. But you have to put in the work.
DB: And i talk I talk about this a lot, especially when it comes to to like, ah to that when I talk to denim heads. Like, you know, you're like, how do you have seven like salvaged denim? You will never break those in.
DB: Like, that's just never going to happen.
Conor Fowler: right right yeah like
DB: They will never look cool.
Conor Fowler: right
DB: They will just always be... like new essentially and it's a problem when you you keep on buying quality clothing that you will just never live long enough to actually get your money's worth because they're so well built that it's important not to get so much
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Right. This is why I want to see someone rock. Like i know fashion writing or menswear writing is kind of dead at this point, but Hey, maybe, maybe I should pitch this to Nico, but like all those like, you know, guides that we've seen over the years,
matt: I feel like none of them take this into account.
DB: Mm.
matt: So I would love to see like a, hey, this is a basic wardrobe that you can build and that you can wear into the fucking ground instead of like, oh, you need, you know, X, Y, and Z and then x y and Z.
DB: Mm.
DB: Mm.
matt: Like that's, that shouldn't be the point. The point should be like, oh shit, I've got these like 15 or 20 things that I can own, you know, as long as I fit in them for ah couple of decades and like, they'll just look cooler.
DB: Yeah, I think I and I kind of want to speak to that. Like, as I've been thinking about writing something in Mentor and I'm always thinking about what should I write?
DB: And I'm always thinking about how some people, even my actually my wife will tell me sometimes, oh, I wish I had ah i wish I had your wardrobe.
matt: Thank
DB: And I'm just like, no, you don't. It's good.
matt: but
DB: It's a burden, you know? It's like, it doesn't... I do it because I really believe that it's my job to do so, to understand clothing. so Because that's, like, the the the role I play in my community. i play I play the role of the person who knows about clothing.
DB: So if you come to me, I can answer questions for you. But that's why i try on all these pieces. But to anybody I've assisted, like, build a wardrobe, it's always like, no, you need, like... I don't know, 20 pieces, 20 main pieces and then just go from there. Like you don't need anything.
DB: Like you don't need so many options and you don't need so many colors.
matt: Right. Right.
DB: um
Conor Fowler: you don't need 50 Oxford shirts in a gradient.
matt: If you need...
DB: Yes. Yes, 100%.
matt: Well, I was going to say, if you if you want to have multiple things, buy multiples of the same thing. Like, you know, a blue Oxford...
DB: yes ha up your stack
Conor Fowler: But it's like, then bring a blue Oxford every fucking day.
matt: Like, a university strike Oxford.
Conor Fowler: You know, it's like, you don't want to, you want to get into that.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, 90... Ha
Conor Fowler: You don't want to get into that.
matt: ha ha!
Conor Fowler: It's like, because you know what i mean you want the frayed collar but you don't want to wear the same shirt every single day so it's like how do you manage these how do you reconcile these things
DB: Yeah.
DB: Yeah. ah
matt: yeah You know, you gotta to have a backup when that and that one eventually dies. so
Conor Fowler: like i have two leather jackets that will never ever see any meaningful wear and like That's just their fate. You know what I mean? They're never going to looking in and cool looking like they're just hanging in the closet.
DB: it
DB: yeah
matt: I don't know what y'all are doing.
Conor Fowler: It
matt: like If I wear something for four months, it's got a hole in it somewhere. mean...
DB: Really?
Conor Fowler: it would be hard to put a hole in a fucking suede jacket.
matt: i mean
DB: oh
matt: I guess.
DB: Interesting.
Conor Fowler: I have faith in you, Matt, of course, but you know.
DB: Wait, what?
DB: I mean, I'm curious to hear more about, you say four months and you you have some actual wear showing on the piece.
matt: Yeah, usually. i tend to, ah like, the way I've dressed for a very long time is I have, like, I basically have, like, five or six different, like, not not looks, that's not the right word, but, like, you know,
DB: Uh-huh.
DB: Mm-hmm.
matt: When i was when i worked in tailored clothing, when I worked in tailored clothing, I basically rotated between an Air Force blue fresco suit, a Navy hop sack suit, and then a brown houndstooth like wool silk linen and four for four or five Oxford shirts.
Conor Fowler: Shades.
DB: Mm. Mm.
matt: And like, that was it. And so, you know, like my my co coworkers would look at me like I was just out of my mind, but like I would catch, you know, catch a pocket on a table and like,
matt: put a couple of safety pins in it just to hold it on, even though we had a fucking tailor shop in the back. But like, that's how I, I approach clothing. So like, you know, right now I've got three, three solid pairs of pants that I wear, you know, pretty much I'll wear one for a few days in a row.
matt: And yeah, I literally got, got one of the pairs in ah April, April. Yeah. April from a buddy of mine. And they now have holes in the knees and I don't know how
Conor Fowler: I would say that you are uncharacteristically careless with your clothing.
matt: I mean, that's for sure.
Conor Fowler: Because you are careful person, i would say.
matt: But like, yeah, but like, you know, I don't like I don't it's not like I'm doing fit manual labor in them all the time.
DB: Yeah.
matt: But like I am moving a lot. You know, I'm lifting lifting shit.
DB: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, if you were, then it would be sensible.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Like I approach my the way I approach the clothing that I wear is like I'm going to be doing construction in it.
DB: Yeah.
matt: And if it can't hold up to that, then like I probably don't need to own it.
DB: yeah
DB: i I completely agree with you, Matt. I believe i approach I approach my clothing the same way.
matt: Yeah.
DB: I'm very careless about... Like, i I'll pick the clothes... I think a lot about what about them when i before i buy them, but once I buy them, that's it. I got to wear it.
matt: Right.
DB: It doesn't doesn't matter the weather. It doesn't matter anything.
matt: Yeah.
DB: I'll wear them.
matt: it
DB: and But I still can't get enough wear. So I've been designing, and I talk about this on Instagram on a post I did a few few a few weeks ago, but... So with the large wardrobe I have, it's the way i navigate is I try to create small capsule wardrobes within my wardrobe that I'll just wear for like a few months. It'll just be like, okay, cool. For the next few months, I'm just wearing these four shirts or whatever in order to try to get some wear and some patina on them.
DB: and then I'll rotate them. And I'll do the same thing with pants and jackets too. um And so it's just to try, and especially if also when I get something new first, if I get a new jacket, that's what I'm wearing for the next at least two, three weeks um over and over and over again, just not just so I can figure it out, so I can figure out the jacket itself and see how it fits into my wardrobe, but but also so that
matt: Right, right.
DB: I don't feel, it doesn't feel like I'm wearing something new. um Like, cause that's to me, one of the worst feelings.
matt: Right. Feeling like new clothing is the worst. New clothing is the worst.
DB: Yeah. it's the worst feeling in the world.
Conor Fowler: What is? It's like, in Return to the Dickies, like, when you get the fucking Dickies at the beginning, they are, like, plastic.
DB: Yeah. Yes.
Conor Fowler: And if you watch them a thousand times, then they become decently touchable.
matt: yeah
DB: Yes, no, 100%. And I always feel like I need to get out of that phase as quickly as possible. So I'll be like, yeah, I'm going to wear this everywhere I go. Doesn't matter even if it's a suit, I'll just wear it ah to go to the grocery store or to just like run an errand in the morning or whatever.
matt: yeah
DB: I'll just keep it on. I'll keep the jacket on everywhere I go for like the first three weeks so I can break it in and it doesn't feel new.
matt: Right.
matt: I mean, Luciano Barbera said that when you get a new suit made, or you purchase a new suit, you should sleep in it that night.
DB: Yeah.
matt: And like, okay, that makes sense.
DB: My father was doing this way back before she ever said that. Yeah.
matt: Oh, man. I don't know, man.
DB: of
matt: Luciana's been around a minute. You know what I mean? Like, that that dude's, like, got to be pushing 90 at this point.
matt: Yeah.
DB: No, but this is very serious though.
matt: Your dad was on to something.
DB: Oh, my dad was like, especially if it was a linen suit, he was I'm to wear this linen suit tomorrow. He would literally sleep in it.
matt: Fuck yes.
DB: He really would sleep in it.
matt: Man.
DB: So he wakes up and is just like, oh yeah, this is good.
matt: Yo, kid.
DB: i don't have to worry about it it anymore.
matt: Can your dad come on the show? but Can we do a father-son tandem show? that He sounds fucking awesome.
DB: He is the man. i need to check in on that. i need to check on his calendar. See what's on.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yes.
matt: Sick. We would be down. ah So this is this is a very... ah Not a strange question, but what is the most natural thing that you've photographed?
DB: The most natural thing I've photographed.
DB: um I was doing a shoot for ah for one of my friend's brands. It's called Willie Taylor & Co. And he hands makes ties. He makes these 1930s length ties.
DB: So it's like 27 inches long, I think.
matt: Oh, wow
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
DB: um Very brilliant. His sources is like is sources is um is silk from the same factories that Drake's uses. And we're doing a shoot on Broadway. And there was a homeless man.
DB: And eating like... a hot dog because there's these hot dog stands all over Broadway and they make a very, very delicious hot dog. And I think the most natural thing I did was I told him to go pose with the homeless man because we were all eating hot dogs and we shot that.
DB: And I think that that photo was probably, I think to me, the most natural thing I've shot.
matt: Oh, that's beautiful.
DB: Yeah. It's a, you had the homelessness and then you had the hot dogs and it was on Broadway.
matt: Right, right.
DB: That's just, that's, that's Nashville.
matt: Yeah, totally.
DB: Yeah.
matt: Totally. do ah Do you mostly shoot around Nashville or do you, um you know, you said you were just in New York. Were you working doing photography or is it, you know?
DB: I was in New York because I was asked to style the menswear team for the Buck Mason grand opening for the Soho location.
matt: Oh, fuck yeah. That's awesome.
DB: So I was asked to go there and style the menswear team for that particular day. And so I happened to I was there. So I shot, I also shot a few pictures for the grand opening itself, um which is really, really exciting, but no, I'll shoot in different places wherever they'll, wherever anybody will fly me.
DB: I'll go. I'm not, if my calendar allows, you know, sometimes just, yeah, but I'm always open to travel.
matt: Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's...
matt: Yeah, it's it's cool that you've kind of like obviously rolled your interest in clothing into a big portion of your photography too.
DB: Yeah.
matt: So the fact that you're able to do this rules.
DB: Yeah. I, Yeah, it's it's been absolutely amazing. I think I've been blessed to be in a position where I can really pick ah jobs I do.
DB: And so I'm trying to just shoot menswear as much as possible.
matt: Right.
DB: Whenever I shoot the things that are not menswear, you just probably will never see them. They will just be up there, but I will never post them.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
DB: I don't post a lot of my work. ah the the photography jobs that I do. um but
matt: Is that like by design or?
DB: Yeah, I think by design.
matt: Okay.
DB: And i was yeah, I was talking to a lot of other photographers who have been in the industry, both in the menswear and just in photography in general.
matt: Gotcha.
DB: And they were like, yeah, you want to post the work you want to be known for as much as possible. And so I'm trying to do that ah a lot more than I was when I first came to Nashville, because that was the first time I was shooting just full time when I first came to Nashville. was just like working as a photographer.
DB: Yeah.
matt: Gotcha.
DB: yeah
matt: Is there a photo that you you know that you took years ago and you're like, this is what I want to do with my life?
DB: That question always freaks me out, to be honest.
matt: I got it. I got it. Yeah, it's it's pretty broad.
DB: ah What I want to do with my life is always like a scary, for me, it's always a scary thought, but um no, I don't think,
matt: Right. Right. Or maybe a ah favorite photo that you've taken.
DB: ah think i do have I do have some favorite photos that I've taken. um Some of them were, so I was doing this self ah portrait work, like this, like small menswear, like lookbook during COVID that I really liked some of the shots that came from that.
DB: And I was like, oh, this is actually very cool. I think during that time, i was still i was doing so i was still doing work for Chick-fil-A and i was starting to shoot a lot more. And it was the very first thing that I did that was like that I felt was like purely menswear, menswear.
DB: it was ah i was ah Everybody was at home and I just opened my closets. I started doing... I put together some outfits and I shot something in my house. um That was really cool.
DB: ah that That made me think, oh, this... ah love i love the way I see. i It made me realize how much I loved the way I so i saw clothes, clothes um how I styled them, and just the texture in pictures of of clothes. it's just It's just something about it that I'm absolutely enamored by.
matt: Hell yes. That's a that's a great answer and I kind of think a great way to to start to wind down the conversation.
DB: and Oh, what? Already? It's been...
matt: We we try to you know try to do like 45 to an hour depending, but no, no.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
DB: No, it's all good. Yeah.
matt: like This has been super fun and like we we haven't done like a very clothes-centric episode in a while, so this was kind of a palate cleanser for that. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah, and we'll definitely have to have you back on.
DB: Aw.
matt: And yeah, yeah yeah maybe you can become one of those friend of the pod guests that just like, yo, let's talk to Daniel this week.
Conor Fowler: yeah well
DB: I love talking about clothes.
matt: Fuck yeah, so do we. So do we.
Conor Fowler: Perfect guest.
matt: All right. So thank you um once again for coming on. um Shout out your, you know, your accounts, your people that you want to um just have at it.
DB: You're made to shout out people. Oh God. Um,
matt: And yourself. You know, we want we want our listeners to see how rad you are. So.
DB: Oh, well, you can find me at DanielZBaraka on Instagram. And that's you can shoot me a DM anytime. I try to prioritize connection on Instagram always.
DB: um So I'm making point to respond to like all my comments and all my DMs as much as possible.
matt: Hell yeah.
DB: um And then also, yeah, if you see the Buck Mason website for fall, winter, 2025, that's probably, that's my work very often.
matt: Fuck yeah.
DB: yeah So I'll be so I am styling that as well, not as a photographer, but as a stylist on those projects. um And let me know if you need a photography job.
DB: Like if you have a photography job for me, especially if it's menswear, hit me up. let's ah Let's create some stuff. But also thank you guys for just having me.
matt: Hell.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
DB: And i also want to shout out to my friends who are making cool stuff in Nashville. um So Aung Song House, who is a who is a bootmaker here in Nashville.
matt: o
DB: crime Grant and Isaac, they're absolutely terrific. um bocum denim bocum denim who makes denim she is a witch she's an oh she's she's one of my best friends she's unreal
Conor Fowler: checking that out
matt: Oh, I know her. Yeah.
matt: Oh, man. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen her in years, but I met her through the flea.
DB: yeah
matt: and like yeah she
DB: yeah she's
matt: Dude, she's oh so fucking talented. Holy shit.
DB: oh she's been crushing yeah kel uh kelsey bocum is an absolute witch she crushes her denim are insane but i also wanted to give her a shout out um give a shout out to my friend aaron who makes who is a handmaid who makes handmaid's ties um and also he's he's been expanding his
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I gotta buy some of this stuff.
matt: yeah
DB: his inventory a little bit and he's working on some very exciting projects. He released some Huaraches this summer, which that were really amazing too.
matt: Oh, sick. And what's his brand again?
DB: But ah Willie Taylor and co.
matt: William Taylor and co. All right Awesome.
DB: Yeah. Willie Taylor and co. um But I think like what's been just, I mean, obviously oil and lumber and Nashville too with Ethan. I just, so there's, there's, it's been shocking how much menswear or like brands or crafts people actually,
DB: there are at Nashville.
matt: here
DB: um that's been That's been a shock and a very good surprise.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, sounds welcome.
matt: Fuck yeah. Yes.
DB: Yeah.
matt: Well, ah everyone, thank you for listening. um We are at Apocalypse Duds on Instagram, ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com.
matt: I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Flower, at Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next week.
Conor Fowler: Bye bye.
DB: Bye.
