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Tougher Than Bison Skin with Daniel Z. Baraka
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Menswear maven and photo guru Daniel Baraka in the studio this week! We contemplate Nashville, talk arrested development, Buck Mason, Sid Mashburn, paternal influence, becoming a photographer, world building, velvet slippers, up and coming Nashville brands, really wearing out your clothes, and more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. I probably have said exciting too many times, but this will prove to be exciting.
00:00:13
Conor Fowler
Our next guest comes highly recommended from friend of the show, John Leisurely Loafing. um And so this has been in the works a little while, but we are pleased to welcome Daniel Z.
Cultural Background and Accents
00:00:28
Conor Fowler
Baraka to the Apocalypse Duds studio.
00:00:31
Conor Fowler
Hello?
00:00:31
DB
Thanks for having me.
00:00:31
Conor Fowler
Hello.
00:00:32
matt
Yeah. Thanks for coming on, man.
00:00:33
DB
Thank you.
00:00:34
matt
Okay.
00:00:34
Conor Fowler
I didn't expect you to have a British accent.
00:00:37
Conor Fowler
So I'm really fucked up now.
00:00:39
matt
but
00:00:41
DB
but I have heard a few people say that and a always, I'm always like, I think actually the first time I posted something was when I was on TV and Leisurely Loafing actually messaged me and he was like, whoa, that accent threw me off.
00:00:55
DB
And I said, it's not quite British. I'm actually Congolese from Central Africa.
00:01:00
Conor Fowler
That's yeah.
00:01:00
DB
But yeah.
00:01:00
matt
okay
00:01:03
Conor Fowler
Because I figured with your last name, i was like, perhaps this person is not from Nashville.
00:01:05
DB
Yeah.
00:01:09
DB
yeah i think Yeah, I think there were hints.
00:01:09
Conor Fowler
um
00:01:11
DB
There were definitely hints that I was an American.
00:01:12
matt
Right, right.
00:01:15
DB
ah but
00:01:17
Conor Fowler
Yeah, exactly.
00:01:17
matt
Yeah.
00:01:18
Conor Fowler
so
00:01:19
matt
So wait, say where you're from one more time.
00:01:22
DB
um from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
00:01:24
matt
Okay.
00:01:25
DB
It's like dead center in the middle of Africa for no for those listeners who may not know.
00:01:25
matt
Awesome. Yes. Oh yeah.
00:01:31
DB
um But yeah, so it's...
00:01:32
matt
Right. Right. And now you're based in Nashville.
Journey to the U.S.
00:01:36
DB
Yes, I am based in Nashville.
00:01:37
matt
Okay.
00:01:38
DB
It's a year and a half that I've been here, but I've been in the US since 2012. First came to Indianapolis, and then I was in Texas for a little bit, and then in Nashville.
00:01:43
matt
That's cool.
00:01:47
DB
So it's been a few places, but yeah, just...
00:01:48
matt
Okay.
00:01:49
Conor Fowler
One little tour. Mm-hmm.
00:01:51
matt
So what, what, uh, what brought you to the States?
00:01:55
DB
Oh, ah ah so this is, it's, um, it's not as long a story as it, as it should be, but the, the, the Congo itself is a very like unstable area of the world, um, because it's rich and when you have money, it's, uh, it's usually a problem, especially as a country.
00:02:06
matt
Right.
00:02:14
DB
And so it's always been at war and, um,
00:02:17
matt
Right.
00:02:18
DB
In 2012, my dad's job was getting very, very dangerous. And so we had to ask asylum to the United States. And so we moved. That's pretty much what we did.
00:02:28
matt
Wow.
00:02:29
DB
Yeah.
00:02:29
matt
All right. All right.
Weather and Fashion
00:02:31
matt
Well, ah to to get into things, um what are you wearing today and and what's the weather like in Nashville right now?
00:02:31
DB
Sure.
00:02:39
DB
Well, the weather natural is disappointing.
00:02:41
matt
Same in Atlanta.
00:02:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:02:42
matt
Same in Atlanta.
00:02:43
matt
same in atlanta
00:02:43
Conor Fowler
you know
00:02:43
DB
yeah Yeah, I'm like, what the hell is going on? Temps are not dipping. It's still 80 degrees. ah So I'm wearing just this ah Oxford button-down cloth with butcher stripes from ah Spear and McKay.
00:02:52
matt
Yeah.
00:02:59
DB
And... Yeah, and I think some like fatigues. I'm wearing some linen fatigues from Buck Mason on the bottom.
00:03:05
matt
Oh, nice. Nice.
00:03:06
DB
And they're fantastic. But i I wanted to pick something that had. I knew we were doing this on video, so i was like, I need to pick something with a pattern. i think it's just, it keeps things fun.
00:03:16
matt
Yeah. That's a great shirt.
00:03:18
Conor Fowler
It is a really great shirt. It's a standout shirt. Um,
00:03:22
matt
Yeah, I love a really fat, striped Oxford club.
00:03:22
DB
yeah
00:03:25
DB
Yeah, no, 100%.
00:03:25
Conor Fowler
yeah, we're hard to come by.
00:03:26
DB
Yeah, that's... ah yeah that's
00:03:27
Conor Fowler
I think that like larger patterns generally, um, I don't know what it is They're easier to work with. They're like more sturdy sort of.
00:03:38
DB
Hmm. Interesting. I think I've found them harder to work with, but more interesting, you know, like, cause I think like sometimes, especially like if you pay attention to like other, um, so some people who have written about like fashion and stuff, they're always like, well, you're the scale of your pattern should match the scale, the size of the man or whatever.
00:04:00
DB
And
00:04:01
Conor Fowler
Well, that's like sort of advice, right?
00:04:01
matt
Oh.
00:04:03
Conor Fowler
Like it kind of makes sense if you are a bigger guy to wear bigger houndstooth, dogtooth, whatever, um and not be wearing something that invites a a negative comparison, right?
00:04:04
DB
yeah.
00:04:07
DB
Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, 100%.
00:04:16
Conor Fowler
Like, I don't know if you've watched a Arrested Development, but there's this character, Lucille Bluth, and she tells her daughter who's wearing these elephant earrings that she should take them out because she doesn't want to invite the comparisons.
00:04:16
DB
Yeah.
00:04:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah,
00:04:33
DB
I love that. i think I might keep that, actually.
00:04:36
Conor Fowler
it's serious.
00:04:36
DB
take it up you don't want invite the comparison but um yeah uh i usually say to hell with those rules and so i usually favor ah a big part i like a big bold pattern um
00:04:39
Conor Fowler
Right. So it's like, go on.
00:04:47
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:04:48
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:53
DB
Some of them are too big that I really can't wear them because if I wear them on a coat, I can only have two of the pattern before like the whole coat is covered because i'm ah I'm not a very large man.
00:05:05
DB
And so, yeah, butcher stripes are like top for me.
00:05:05
matt
Right. like
00:05:09
matt
Yeah, like, I love the idea of those, like, basically horse blanket plaid jackets, but one, won they're heavy as hell.
00:05:15
DB
Yes.
00:05:17
matt
And in the south, as you're aware, you know, it it doesn't really get as cold to wear that. But also, again, you get like, if you're not ah size 42 plus, you get like one and a half of the pattern and it just doesn't really make sense.
00:05:32
DB
yeah yeah yeah i usually avoid those that is so true um it's a shame that it doesn't get as cold in the south i've been but i i the last place i was before nashville was texas and so being in nashville i had i had hopes for some reason
00:05:41
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:47
matt
Right.
00:05:53
DB
that it would be I'd get a few more colder days or colder months.
00:05:56
Conor Fowler
ah
00:05:56
matt
Right, right.
00:05:58
DB
And i have been so disappointed. It has not been great.
00:06:01
matt
Nashville has some of the most ridiculous weather patterns of any place I've ever been in my life. Like, uh, I sold with the Nashville flea for like a year and a half. And, uh, man, like the first, the first time we, we did it, a friend and I did it like the wind on, i don't, maybe it's just the elevation, but like it, the wind wrecked two of our tents.
00:06:10
DB
Yeah.
00:06:24
matt
It blew down our mirror and broke. And then it would just like rain out of nowhere. And this was basically every month at the fleet. I was just like, what the fuck is going on?
00:06:36
DB
That sounds like Nashville.
00:06:37
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:38
DB
It really sounds...
00:06:38
matt
it
00:06:39
DB
Yeah.
00:06:39
matt
It really does, man. It really
Nashville's Fashion Scene
00:06:41
matt
does. like it It was almost like a Florida version of weather, but like way windier.
00:06:45
DB
Yeah.
00:06:46
matt
And I'm just like, yo, what is this place?
00:06:47
Conor Fowler
Very bad.
00:06:49
matt
Jesus.
00:06:51
Conor Fowler
What is this? What is the menswear scene like in Nashville? I mean, I have no idea. i um i went there once as a boy, like.
00:06:59
DB
Oh, yeah. that's ah that's a very good That's a very good question, Connor. um The menswear scene is Very small. And I think like Nashville in general is a very small city. I remember when I first came here, I ah went out to lunch with a friend with a person I'd met on Instagram.
00:07:16
DB
And he's one of the most popular stylists out here in Nashville. And he told me that everybody knew each other and that your reputation was like everything.
00:07:22
matt
Right.
00:07:24
DB
Because if you did something in this small group, like everybody would know it by the end of the the day. But the whole city just feels very much like a village. It's tiny. The communities are tightly knit.
00:07:36
DB
Everybody knows each other. But even within that small world, the menswear world is a lot. It's even smaller. There are some people who are they're like the fashion kids.
00:07:42
Conor Fowler
Sure. Mm-hmm.
00:07:44
DB
And then obviously the menswear, which two separate categories. But um so... There's starting to be a few more menswear brands actually that are present, which is which is good.
00:07:57
DB
um There's obviously one of the biggest Buck Masons in the country here in Nashville.
00:08:00
matt
Right.
00:08:01
DB
And then there is Sid Mashburn opened his second shop here in Nashville, which is actually like two minutes away from where I live. and um And then there's like Stagg or other, a few brands and then few meetings.
00:08:16
DB
There's a person called Manny and Manny ah runs this small club called ah the Commonwealth. And I think that's the biggest like presence of menswear. Like if you're, if you come to Nashville and you want it to be plugged into the menswear community of Nashville, you need to get plugged into the Commonwealth run by Manny.
00:08:34
DB
And that's pretty much it. But, If a person landed tomorrow and they had interest in menswear, I'd probably hear about them before the end of the week.
00:08:45
matt
Right.
00:08:45
DB
You know, if they had on pair boots, Michaels, I would probably hear about them.
00:08:48
matt
Yeah.
00:08:49
DB
I would know. Like, I'm like, yeah, there's a new guy who is wearing pair of boots, Michaels in Nashville. So would just know it's that small. Yeah.
00:08:57
matt
yeah
00:08:57
Conor Fowler
Well, it feels, it feels, I mean, so i guess Baltimore and Nashville are probably approximately size, but like, it feels that way in my experience, almost everywhere.
00:09:07
Conor Fowler
It's a very small scene. I mean, even in New York, I think it's a small scene.
00:09:12
DB
It... it It's cool in that way. Yes. I think I was just in New York ah after a really long stint of not having gone there. And I realized how small it was. You know, I went to like two events and I ran into the same people at those things.
00:09:29
DB
And like, it's small and it's very tightly knit. But that's, I think that's the beauty of like menswear. But I think like it's the it's the sheer amount of people who are in those groups that actually changes like from New York compared to Nashville.
00:09:43
DB
And Nashville like, 10 people or 15 people max versus in New York, you have like hundreds or like two hundreds.
00:09:50
Conor Fowler
Sure. Yeah.
00:09:53
DB
you know Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:53
Conor Fowler
Not like the supporters of the Baltimore Ravens, right? Or whatever. It's not like sports team or like even a small club.
00:09:59
DB
Yes.
00:10:03
matt
There was a menswear dude based in Nashville that like I just knew through Style Forum back in the day. I think menswear musings is or was his account.
00:10:11
DB
yes
00:10:13
matt
like I can't remember his name to save my life. but yeah like I remember you know him being very well dressed and me not really thinking that Nashville was that type of place.
00:10:18
DB
uh,
00:10:21
DB
yeah.
00:10:23
matt
like I know it's got style, but it's not exactly a tailored clothing city.
00:10:28
DB
No, it wasn't. I think he was one of the very few and he has since moved out of Nashville actually.
00:10:32
matt
Oh, has he really?
00:10:33
DB
no
00:10:33
matt
Damn.
00:10:34
DB
Yeah, i think I think he's in Kentucky. unless my
00:10:37
matt
Okay.
00:10:37
DB
i could be wrong about this, but I think he moved out. um But he was one of the very few people who were really, really into the Manzor community, along with Manny.
00:10:41
matt
Gotcha.
00:10:46
DB
um And like they'd have these ah they'd have these meetings with this small club that Manny had started. And so, yeah, that that was like the heydays.
00:10:53
matt
Right.
00:10:57
DB
not but magic but I think Nashville is still in its heydays.
00:10:57
matt
Yeah.
00:10:59
DB
So it's like it's just very much in its infancy.
00:11:00
matt
Yeah, totally. And I mean, the, the, the vintage scene is, is he huge and like very well regarded. You know, it's, it's music city for a reason. And like, you know, I'm a big country music person.
00:11:11
DB
Yeah.
00:11:13
matt
And so I know that modern artists aren't really like dressing to the nines, like, you know, back in the day, but you know, from spending a significant amount of time in Nashville, there's a lot of very stylish people.
00:11:18
DB
No.
00:11:25
DB
Yeah, there's ah there's a very specific aesthetic to Nashville, I think. and like And when people come to Nashville very often, actually, they do play into that aesthetic themselves.
00:11:29
matt
Right.
00:11:36
DB
like if there it is like Whether it would be women with the bachelorettes and so the cowgirl aesthetic with the hats and the glittery cowboy fits or musicians.
00:11:36
matt
Right.
00:11:43
matt
Right.
00:11:47
DB
Lots of like, obviously, i don't want to to draw. it's a lot more... um There's a lot more variety and a lot more nuance than I thought before I moved here.
00:11:56
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:11:56
DB
and Because before you move, you yeah I had this impression that it was a ton of like country music. And then I came and it was oh no, there's actually so, like all the genres are very well represented Nashville.
00:12:10
matt
hundred percent
00:12:12
DB
Same for ah few that you don't have to talk about. But um yeah, ah ah you get a good you get a good sample of different genres and same thing with culture too.
00:12:23
matt
Totally. Totally.
00:12:24
DB
Yeah.
00:12:25
matt
It is a cool place to to visit and spend a little bit of time. And like, you know, the the size, it being the size it is, is it makes it easy to get around and like kind of, you know, it's pretty easy to navigate for the most part.
00:12:29
DB
Yeah.
00:12:37
matt
Although whatever the, like one of the, uh, interstates is, it's not 75. I can't remember, but it's the one that kind of like hits I-24 and goes goes around the city, and like the perimeter.
00:12:51
matt
I fucking hate that interstate.
00:12:52
DB
Yeah.
00:12:53
matt
It's the worst. The worst!
00:12:57
DB
I'm going to disappoint you, but I know one of my worst, my my biggest character flaws is that I just, I'm terrible with the name of highways
00:13:05
matt
Right, right. It's the one that goes to the airport, whatever the fuck that one is.
00:13:08
DB
and directions.
00:13:09
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:09
DB
Yeah, that one. They're all terrible.
00:13:11
matt
God. Yeah, yeah.
00:13:13
DB
ah right
00:13:13
matt
it it is
00:13:14
Conor Fowler
Well, car travel generally is horrible.
00:13:14
matt
It is some of the...
00:13:17
matt
It's true. It's true. Yeah. Ugh.
00:13:17
Conor Fowler
So,
00:13:20
Conor Fowler
well, to keep things, no, I was just going to keep things on topic, which we love to do on this show, of course, um you, it's hard to pin you down, right?
00:13:21
DB
i i want to, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
00:13:30
DB
Yeah.
00:13:34
Conor Fowler
It's like photography, menswear, which one of those preceded the other?
00:13:41
DB
Hmm. I think menswear has always been a big part of me just as a person for as long as I can remember. I think the very first thing i ever remember liking was menswear.
00:13:53
DB
Like this is like when I was four years old.
00:13:55
Conor Fowler
Something in particular, something general.
00:13:58
DB
um I think I was probably about three or four years old from what I can remember.
00:14:03
matt
Oh,
00:14:03
DB
And i had i had these v I had shoes. I was really into shoes. i this I had this patent leather shoes that I had named after Malcolm Lynch, who who was an actor, and know who was a character from a um from a series of books.
00:14:19
DB
called SAS. And I had named my shoes after that character because we had this one movie that we would watch and I thought he was very, very stylish. And I remember just being very much into clothing from the movies I was watching. And then I was really inspired. And then I got really inspired by the the ninjas and the Asian movies, the Asian Kung Fu movies and how they'd wear white socks with black shoes and stuff. I think I always just...
00:14:46
DB
I've always had an eye for what people were wearing.
00:14:49
matt
Right.
00:14:49
DB
And I've always had very strong perspective about what I was wearing, which made me a very painful kid to like dress. It was just painful for my parents and my siblings.
00:14:57
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:14:59
matt
Right.
00:15:00
DB
But that's just, that was the very first thing I ever loved. So I think that's definitely came before anything else.
00:15:06
matt
Yeah. Is your dad a stylish dude?
00:15:09
DB
Yes, very much so. He's very much into clothes. Like,
00:15:12
matt
Oh, that's cool.
00:15:13
DB
Yeah, he was a banker and he was like, he would dress to the nines. He would wear tuxedos after 5 p.m. And yeah, he he he was...
00:15:21
matt
Right, right, yeah. Yeah, that classic classic kind of guy. Okay.
00:15:25
DB
Yeah, but also he was very much into fashion itself, not just menswear. Like he would know, was very well versed into like French designers, ah French designing houses, ah whether that was like ah Pierre Balmain or Martin Margila.
00:15:34
matt
Okay.
00:15:40
DB
And it was like, he was amazing. Like he told he told me, he would talk about these things, not necessarily as in like Daniel, sit down and learn about these, but he would just mention them so much around me that i they they left a big impression on me.
00:15:54
DB
ah Yeah.
00:15:54
matt
That's really cool.
00:15:57
DB
So to this day, I'm very much not just into menswear, but I'm still like very much into just fashion as as an art form um and as a pillar of culture.
00:15:57
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:16:02
matt
Yeah.
00:16:07
matt
Yeah. I feel like, you know, over the over the course of the past, I don't know, 15 years or so, like. the tailored side and the fashion side, like they're no longer diametrically opposed.
00:16:21
matt
Like it's, it's cool to me, you know, not everybody mixes and matches or whatever, but like if you're into clothing, there's no denying that like designer high end stuff is, is artwork.
00:16:21
DB
Hmm.
00:16:25
DB
Mm-hmm.
00:16:33
matt
And that like, you can find, you can find some sort of like appreciation or inspiration from that aesthetic, even if it's not necessarily your own.
00:16:43
DB
Yeah, that's very, very much, that that's very true. That's how I feel about that.
00:16:46
matt
Yeah. It's cool to see.
00:16:48
DB
Yeah.
00:16:49
matt
It really is.
00:16:50
DB
Yeah. So, Connor, to answer your question, it was definitely, definitely menswear before anything else. Anything.
Passion for Menswear
00:16:59
matt
And when did you start doing photography?
00:17:03
DB
ah So i was doing I started doing photography when I was working for Chick-fil-A. did but and this long stint at Chick-fil-A and i was starting to do marketing for Chick-fil-A.
00:17:07
matt
Oh, shit.
00:17:16
DB
And part of marketing these days is like always there's a photography element to it.
00:17:22
matt
Right.
00:17:22
DB
And obviously everybody was using phones at the time, but I just...
00:17:23
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:17:28
DB
ever the perfectionist i wanted to get a camera and really get into like uh compositions and try to shoot things that perhaps would get the attention of of uh corporates chick-fil-a and they would they would like hire me or something i don't know because i was as this time i was just working at a restaurant level but i was doing marketing for the markets of indianapolis actually yeah
00:17:42
matt
Right.
00:17:49
matt
Oh, that's cool.
00:17:51
DB
Yeah, so that was ah that was sweet. But that's how I got into photography. And then obviously now when you have a camera on, you just want to shoot, you shoot as much as you can. And I realized how much I loved it. And also how much of men'swear i how much of menswear I loved just because of photography, of good photography.
00:18:09
matt
Right. 100%. Right.
00:18:11
DB
This was like, yeah, this was at the time when ah the team at Drake's, the team at Drake's with Matt Woodruff and...
00:18:13
Conor Fowler
No, that's a good point.
00:18:16
DB
um And what's his name? God. Well, it was Matt Woodruff and gosh, can't remember. but But the team at Drex would post this picture of all of them sitting outside the shop.
00:18:31
matt
right
00:18:31
DB
And they would they always looked cool.
00:18:33
DB
They always looked really relaxed. they had They would always pop up on my ah Pinterest. And this was like when I really, I was like, oh, this is so cool. I love what they're wearing, but I just love the photos.
00:18:44
DB
i love the I love the campaigns of... uh, the Ralph Lauren or the 1980s Ralph's like all of those things. I realized that that was a big part what I loved about men's wear as well.
00:18:56
matt
Yeah.
00:18:56
DB
And sir so to have a camera in my hands, liking clothes, i was like, Oh, this is, it's easy.
00:19:02
matt
yeah Yeah. I mean, the, the Ralph, like Ralph really set the bar for that, that type of campaign.
00:19:03
Conor Fowler
Amen.
00:19:03
DB
Yeah.
00:19:07
DB
Oh yeah.
00:19:09
matt
And, you know, I remember the Drake's that Drake's era very well too. And they were, you know, they were kind of like, i don't know.
00:19:15
DB
Yeah.
00:19:18
matt
I feel taking some influence from that, that time period of Ralph um and realizing that like the visuals have to match the, you know, the vibe of the shop and the clothes and and all of this plays into like a, you know, all of it plays and ties in with each other.
00:19:29
DB
Yeah.
00:19:34
matt
And, you know, not not a lot of brands were doing things like that when Drake's really started, you know, going hard with it.
00:19:34
DB
Yeah.
00:19:43
DB
No, yeah. And I think even over the past two years, I think brands have been doing that a little bit more. But back when Drake's was doing it in like, I don't know, I can't remember like 2016, 2018-ish, like world building essentially was not as common.
00:19:49
matt
Mm-hmm.
00:19:59
DB
Like there were only a couple of brands that were doing it.
00:20:02
matt
Right, right.
00:20:02
DB
ah
00:20:03
Conor Fowler
Right. It's new It's like sort of invented by Ralph, like,
00:20:03
DB
And but Drake...
00:20:06
DB
Yeah, it was, yeah, right? And Drake had this way of doing it in such an accessible way. almost looked like it was just dudes hanging out, eating good food, and like, but wearing sharp clothes.
00:20:15
matt
Right.
00:20:18
DB
that That was just so fresh and so cool. It was almost like they were worlds building, but in incognito modes. Like, you were not, you didn't know that you were being influenced, but you were fully, like, being influenced.
00:20:28
matt
Right.
00:20:30
DB
And I just loved, I remember falling absolutely in love with that. oh But yeah, but that, But that's what made it stand out. Because J.Crew had good inmate imagery, but they didn't...
00:20:42
DB
did At that time, like in the 2010s, they didn't really have... They weren't really building a world. You know, like it was...
00:20:49
matt
Right.
00:20:49
Conor Fowler
one
00:20:49
DB
There was no... there was no You couldn't define it. You couldn't define, oh, that's J.Crew's world or whatever. You know, they had good imagery, but it's a completely different game.
00:20:56
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like how different, how different was it from Land's End or LL Bean?
00:20:57
matt
Right. and
00:21:02
DB
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:04
Conor Fowler
And I mean, like to, to I'm saying like to someone who's not like read to this scene, like I think that they're all kind of Americana to like brands, you know, that's just there.
00:21:19
Conor Fowler
sort of general outlook.
00:21:22
DB
yeah it just always felt like they didn't they just didn't have a stronger perspective as drake's or obviously the king ralph lauren you know ah you just
00:21:32
matt
Yeah. Which is wild for a company as big as Crew.
00:21:37
DB
yeah
00:21:38
matt
You know, but, but also, you know, from, from working in the industry, um, not for them just in general, but like their men's, the men's side is a drop in the bucket for their business.
00:21:50
matt
Like, you know, the women, the women's but pretty much.
00:21:52
Conor Fowler
For all of them, right? i mean, for almost everyone.
00:21:54
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Like, like women's clothing is, is so far ahead of in sales that like, it's not even fucking funny.
00:22:01
DB
Yeah. That makes sense.
00:22:05
matt
Yeah.
00:22:05
Conor Fowler
I wonder what the numbers are, right?
00:22:05
DB
That makes sense.
00:22:06
Conor Fowler
Because like, there's a reason that big box stores like don't really do men's clothes at all. I mean, Target does a little bit, but for the most part, they're just like,
00:22:23
Conor Fowler
an afterthought.
00:22:23
matt
I mean, like, you know, it's kind of like kind of like going into thrift.
00:22:29
matt
There's 25 different women's racks and like categories and whatever. And there's four men's and you're just like, cool. Uh, yeah, this, this takes me 15 minutes to look through the men's stuff.
00:22:29
Conor Fowler
It's
00:22:40
DB
Yeah.
00:22:40
Conor Fowler
really hard to be a man.
00:22:42
matt
yeah
00:22:45
Conor Fowler
We have to put up with ah indignity after indignity.
00:22:48
matt
Right.
00:22:48
DB
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:48
matt
Right. Men's rights.
00:22:50
DB
But...
00:22:50
matt
I'm just kidding. Just kidding.
00:22:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah, right. yeah
00:22:54
DB
But I also, I'm also wondering though, if it has to do with just how also how men shop in general, you know, you know, like it's, yeah.
00:23:00
matt
Oh, I think that's a huge part of it for sure. Cause I mean, we talk about this all the time, like, you know,
00:23:04
Conor Fowler
That men are just like in ah inattentive shoppers are like sort of lazy.
00:23:09
matt
right. The three of us are not the target men's market for the most part. You know, that's why we, that's why we shop places, you know, well like, and you know, shop sometimes places like Drake's or or Buck Mason or whatever, because it's like,
00:23:14
DB
No. Yeah.
00:23:26
DB
Yeah.
00:23:27
matt
You know, i like I care about the fabric. I care about how well something is made. Like I'm going to destroy it eventually. It needs to hold up, you know, at least a few years before I do that.
00:23:38
DB
Yeah. But also I think like, I don't think even a lot of men care about the ah the construction of their garments, but you can see even in the way it was advertised back in the days, like when it's menswear, it's ah people speak to the to the the the durability of the garments.
00:23:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:23:57
DB
Like they're like, oh, this is tough.
00:23:57
matt
Right.
00:23:59
DB
It's tougher than, I don't know, like bison skin or whatever. um but what and But when it's women's, you develop you're you're painting this like fantasy. like, oh, imagine you are this person and stuff. And so there was a lot more attention was getting put into like ah women's marketing and women's world building.
00:24:19
DB
Then the men's was like, oh, yeah, cool. We did just need something tough. And that's kind of how men shopped.
00:24:22
matt
Right.
00:24:23
DB
It's like, oh, can I wear this whenever I'm doing everything? It's like, yeah, you can.
00:24:27
matt
Right.
00:24:27
DB
Oh, cool.
00:24:28
Conor Fowler
And that's the thing, right?
00:24:28
DB
That's all I need.
00:24:29
Conor Fowler
It's like a garment for literally every occasion. It's not possible.
00:24:32
DB
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:33
matt
the You know, and
00:24:35
Conor Fowler
It just doesn't work. and Because you can't have like a ah sweat tuxedo
00:24:37
DB
Yeah. And so, yeah.
00:24:40
matt
yeah, like, I don't want to sound too cliche, but dudes want every single piece of clothing to be like a Navy blazer.
00:24:48
DB
Yeah. Like it works for everything.
00:24:48
matt
Like, yeah, yeah. Like I can throw this, you know, i can wear these fucking Wrangler cowboy cut jeans.
00:24:55
DB
Yeah.
00:24:55
matt
I can wear them to church. I can, you know, i can wear them to work on the car.
00:24:58
Conor Fowler
Dress him up, dress him down.
00:25:00
matt
Yeah. i can I can put on ah my my suit jacket and wear them to dinner at the world's worst steakhouse.
00:25:07
DB
Yeah, but you know what?
00:25:08
Conor Fowler
That's my, I was going to say that's my like Dickies pitch.
00:25:09
DB
Yeah, go ahead.
00:25:15
Conor Fowler
Cause I work in schools, right? So kids are writing on my pants with marker anyway.
00:25:17
DB
Yeah.
00:25:23
Conor Fowler
So it's like, it kind of might as well be Dickies.
00:25:23
DB
Yeah.
00:25:25
Conor Fowler
Like I think that that's a,
00:25:26
matt
Yeah.
00:25:26
DB
Might as well be Dickies, yeah.
00:25:27
DB
No, 100%.
00:25:28
Conor Fowler
Right, that's and that could be their motto.
00:25:29
matt
That... Yeah, i was going to say, that should be their slogan. Might as well be Dickies.
00:25:34
DB
ah
00:25:35
Conor Fowler
Because if you press a crease in them, they look like trousers.
00:25:38
matt
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's they're you know any any work band like that is essentially what came out of the chinos.
00:25:38
DB
Yeah.
00:25:40
DB
But...
00:25:45
matt
like a
00:25:46
Conor Fowler
Right, it's designedist it's designed to look like that.
00:25:46
DB
Mm.
00:25:48
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:25:49
DB
Yeah.
00:25:50
matt
I wish they made a 100% cotton version, goddammit.
00:25:52
Conor Fowler
Me too.
00:25:54
DB
Petition to please make 100%. Yeah.
00:25:56
matt
Yeah, ben davis makes Ben Davis makes a similar pan in All Cotton occasionally, but they're never fucking in stock.
00:25:57
DB
please
00:26:01
DB
yeah
00:26:04
matt
And they really don't give a shit.
00:26:08
DB
So maybe you just wonder what what's going on in these brands, like in their meetings, you know, they're like, oh, this is this product people everybody loves. Let's just never make it.
00:26:16
matt
all of All of the salesmen, and I don't mean to be sound ageist, but all of the salesmen and people that work at these companies are fucking 100.
00:26:16
DB
like
00:26:23
matt
And they've been in the they've been in the business for 50 years, and they think that it still operates the same way that it did in the 70s through the 90s, you know, the golden years.
00:26:26
DB
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:26:32
matt
And, like, they have zero ideas.
00:26:35
DB
yeah guys that's that's 100 true but it's been it's been refreshing though to i don't know whether refreshing is the right word but it's been interesting to observe the shift with social media growing and like all the the brandification of everything how now every single brand wants to have wants to build a whole world and you're like dude you're just selling glazes you don't need to build a world
00:26:36
matt
Zero. Yeah.
00:26:40
matt
Yeah.
00:26:40
Conor Fowler
the old guard.
00:26:52
matt
right Yeah, yeah.
00:27:01
DB
Like, you know, it's like not everybody. It's like, oh, well, everybody's doing it, but not everybody has a very strong perspective. So very often you can clearly see who is copying from who or and whether that's whether that's a problem or not, like that's that's for you to decide.
00:27:21
DB
But um I don't know. Some of it bothers me a lot, like about so about the about the modern states of menswear.
00:27:25
matt
Yeah, same here.
00:27:32
DB
But also, i was going to add to the versatility of pieces, is how you can wear your dickies everywhere.
00:27:33
Conor Fowler
Hear, hear.
00:27:38
DB
I think for me, it's still... it still influences how I choose my pieces or like it still like dictates my style very often, which is why I wear so much ah velvet, s slipp so many velvet slippers.
00:27:51
DB
I wear velvet slippers because I can wear them with everything.
00:27:54
matt
Right.
00:27:54
DB
If I had just, if someone asked me, what are you going wear for the rest of your life? I'd be like, yeah, just give me some velvet slippers. I'll take them to the gym. I'll work i'll work out in depth. I'll wear them with my sweatpants and I'll wear them with a tux.
00:28:04
Conor Fowler
You don't think they're too, like, dainty?
00:28:05
DB
Anything in that. on I don't mind it. I don't mind the daintiness.
00:28:10
Conor Fowler
I just thought that they doing were not, like, I thought that they were, like, delicate, basically.
00:28:15
DB
Oh, no, they're not. um
00:28:16
matt
No, if you get a well-made bear, yeah............................
00:28:17
DB
They're not. They're solid. Yeah, they're solid. They're very, very solid.
00:28:22
Conor Fowler
Interesting.
00:28:23
DB
um And obviously...
00:28:23
Conor Fowler
Maybe I have to add this to my list.
00:28:26
DB
Yeah, gets get some velvet slippers. You like the you will not be disappointed. um Bowhill and Elliot makes a good one. But then i like also i like to get the ones that aren't um satin lines anymore.
00:28:39
DB
Like with the quilted the quilted interior, I don't like to get those as much anymore. I've moved on to the leather lined ones um because they're just they they handle moisture a little bit better.
00:28:46
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:28:49
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:50
matt
Are you a...
00:28:50
Conor Fowler
Because you wear socks, right?
00:28:51
DB
Yeah.
00:28:53
DB
What'd you say?
00:28:53
Conor Fowler
how matt
00:28:57
DB
I'm sorry you broke up.
00:28:57
Conor Fowler
you saw You're wearing these sockless, right?
00:28:59
DB
Oh yeah, always. I'm an animal.
00:29:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah. let's
00:29:02
DB
like
00:29:03
matt
Yeah, so... Man, socks are the fucking worst.
00:29:04
DB
I'm an animal. I am an animal.
00:29:06
Conor Fowler
There are people who are like mandatory sock wearers and like, I don't know how you could wear loafers with socks.
00:29:06
matt
I...
00:29:14
DB
i don't I don't try to argue with them. I'm fine being called gross, but I don't i don't share shoes with anybody else.
00:29:19
matt
Right, right.
00:29:21
DB
so
00:29:22
matt
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:29:22
Conor Fowler
That's what I'm saying.
00:29:22
DB
They're my shoes, so I'm going to fucking wear them if I want.
00:29:26
Conor Fowler
Right. what matter what matter What does it matter to you?
00:29:27
DB
Yeah, I always...
00:29:29
matt
Right, socks are a fucking sensory nightmare.
00:29:30
DB
man.
00:29:32
matt
like i feel Like, I feel like my feet are suffocating.
00:29:32
DB
Oh, 100%. men
00:29:36
matt
I
00:29:36
DB
ah hundred percent
00:29:37
Conor Fowler
Unless the socks are made in America, American trench.
00:29:41
matt
i i mean, American Drench are mostly the socks that I wear when I
00:29:45
Conor Fowler
Yeah. And they are fucking nice.
00:29:46
matt
when i do
00:29:47
Conor Fowler
this the the the hope The hype is real, but it is...
00:29:52
DB
American, I haven't tried them, but...
00:29:54
matt
They're, I mean, they're, no, no.
00:29:55
Conor Fowler
Well, they're not sponsoring the show, but they are good.
00:29:55
DB
ah
00:29:57
matt
no Yeah.
00:29:58
Conor Fowler
like Because Matt knows everyone because it's such a big ah community.
00:29:58
matt
i've I've been wearing their socks since Jacob launched the brand in 2012. Yeah. twenty twelve yeah Yeah.
00:30:05
DB
Yeah.
00:30:09
Conor Fowler
but
00:30:10
matt
They're, they're they're fantastic. Fantastic socks.
00:30:12
DB
Yeah.
00:30:13
matt
A great product. And like, I do wear socks when I'm wearing like boots or, you know, if if I have a ah market that I'm doing like
00:30:18
DB
Mm-hmm.
00:30:20
Conor Fowler
Well, boots, it's like you'd be a psychopath to not wear...
00:30:23
matt
Yeah, this is true.
00:30:23
DB
Yeah.
00:30:24
matt
This is true.
00:30:24
Conor Fowler
That's with a boot, right?
00:30:24
DB
yeah
00:30:25
Conor Fowler
and
00:30:25
matt
Yeah, I'm not wearing a work, not wearing a work boot sockless, but like, yeah, or like I wear them, you know.
00:30:25
Conor Fowler
ah kind of is the
00:30:26
DB
Yeah.
00:30:31
Conor Fowler
slide my naked foot into my Timbs.
00:30:33
matt
Right.
00:30:35
Conor Fowler
You know that something has gone awry if you're wearing boots with no size.
00:30:35
matt
Yeah.
00:30:40
matt
But yeah, the the minute that I can take off my socks and put my sneakers back on is like, like otherworldly.
00:30:46
DB
Yeah. No, 100%.
00:30:48
Conor Fowler
I just really fallen in love with my Boston's like, I never thought that I would have Birkenstocks. And then I did, and now I have them, and I feel like I could never, ever, ever live without them.
00:31:01
DB
No, I think ah lot a lot of people don't understand.
00:31:01
Conor Fowler
So I'm aware of those thoughts, of course.
00:31:04
DB
and And this is like the reason why I'm i'm in loafers and more importantly, like slippers 90% of the time. But anything that I don't have to lace or that I don't have to wear socks with, I'm like right there.
00:31:18
DB
90% of like, you're going to find me. Um, ah it's just easy for me, clothing, as the I live in the older I get, the more this becomes true. I want it to be easy.
00:31:29
DB
Um, and sometimes that doesn't come off with the, with the outfits I put together. Cause some people find them a little bit too intricate or they think I put so much thought in it, but like, it's like, no, I'm picking the easiest thing that I can wear.
00:31:43
DB
And then I walk out the house.
00:31:43
matt
I mean, isn't that kind of the whole isn't that kind of the whole point?
00:31:45
DB
I throw in the little slippers. that's that's what should That should be the point. To me, that is still the point.
00:31:50
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:53
DB
That's still the goal.
00:31:53
matt
Like, like i don't I don't know about you, um and as a photographer, actually, you might have a pretty good perspective on this, but like the coolest people that I see on a regular basis are
00:31:54
DB
It hasn't changed.
00:32:05
matt
are like super old people that have just been living in their clothing for the past 30 years. And it's like, you know, the, the guy, it might not fit great. It might not be like, you know, uh, like the, the world's best shit, but it's like, Oh, you've had that tweed jacket for fucking 40 years.
00:32:21
DB
Yeah.
00:32:24
matt
You've had that, you know, that Wrangler denim shirt under it or probably equally as long. And then, you know you're wearing a pair of chinos and a pair of, you know, Penny Whipers.
00:32:35
matt
And it's like, yeah, that I mean...
00:32:36
Conor Fowler
Like you have to wear stuff for that long to really make it worthwhile, I think.
00:32:36
DB
Yeah.
00:32:43
DB
Yes, that's not that's what makes me the saddest about my big wardrobe is that I'm afraid I will never be that cool. You know, I have so many clothes that need seven lifetimes to reach the level that some of those older guys have in the comfort of their clothes. But you have to put in the work.
00:33:01
DB
And i talk I talk about this a lot, especially when it comes to to like, ah to that when I talk to denim heads. Like, you know, you're like, how do you have seven like salvaged denim? You will never break those in.
00:33:13
DB
Like, that's just never going to happen.
00:33:13
Conor Fowler
right right yeah like
00:33:15
DB
They will never look cool.
00:33:15
Conor Fowler
right
00:33:16
DB
They will just always be... like new essentially and it's a problem when you you keep on buying quality clothing that you will just never live long enough to actually get your money's worth because they're so well built that it's important not to get so much
00:33:20
matt
Yeah.
00:33:33
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:33:34
matt
Right. This is why I want to see someone rock. Like i know fashion writing or menswear writing is kind of dead at this point, but Hey, maybe, maybe I should pitch this to Nico, but like all those like, you know, guides that we've seen over the years,
00:33:50
matt
I feel like none of them take this into account.
00:33:50
DB
Mm.
00:33:52
matt
So I would love to see like a, hey, this is a basic wardrobe that you can build and that you can wear into the fucking ground instead of like, oh, you need, you know, X, Y, and Z and then x y and Z.
00:33:59
DB
Mm.
00:34:01
DB
Mm.
00:34:05
matt
Like that's, that shouldn't be the point. The point should be like, oh shit, I've got these like 15 or 20 things that I can own, you know, as long as I fit in them for ah couple of decades and like, they'll just look cooler.
00:34:21
DB
Yeah, I think I and I kind of want to speak to that. Like, as I've been thinking about writing something in Mentor and I'm always thinking about what should I write?
00:34:33
DB
And I'm always thinking about how some people, even my actually my wife will tell me sometimes, oh, I wish I had ah i wish I had your wardrobe.
00:34:36
matt
Thank
00:34:42
DB
And I'm just like, no, you don't. It's good.
00:34:44
matt
but
00:34:46
DB
It's a burden, you know? It's like, it doesn't... I do it because I really believe that it's my job to do so, to understand clothing. so Because that's, like, the the the role I play in my community. i play I play the role of the person who knows about clothing.
00:35:02
DB
So if you come to me, I can answer questions for you. But that's why i try on all these pieces. But to anybody I've assisted, like, build a wardrobe, it's always like, no, you need, like... I don't know, 20 pieces, 20 main pieces and then just go from there. Like you don't need anything.
00:35:20
DB
Like you don't need so many options and you don't need so many colors.
00:35:23
matt
Right. Right.
00:35:24
DB
um
00:35:24
Conor Fowler
you don't need 50 Oxford shirts in a gradient.
00:35:25
matt
If you need...
00:35:27
DB
Yes. Yes, 100%.
00:35:28
matt
Well, I was going to say, if you if you want to have multiple things, buy multiples of the same thing. Like, you know, a blue Oxford...
00:35:36
DB
yes ha up your stack
00:35:37
Conor Fowler
But it's like, then bring a blue Oxford every fucking day.
00:35:38
matt
Like, a university strike Oxford.
00:35:42
Conor Fowler
You know, it's like, you don't want to, you want to get into that.
00:35:42
matt
Yeah, yeah. Like, 90... Ha
00:35:46
Conor Fowler
You don't want to get into that.
00:35:48
matt
ha ha!
00:35:48
Conor Fowler
It's like, because you know what i mean you want the frayed collar but you don't want to wear the same shirt every single day so it's like how do you manage these how do you reconcile these things
00:35:52
DB
Yeah.
00:35:59
DB
Yeah. ah
00:36:01
matt
yeah You know, you gotta to have a backup when that and that one eventually dies. so
00:36:06
Conor Fowler
like i have two leather jackets that will never ever see any meaningful wear and like That's just their fate. You know what I mean? They're never going to looking in and cool looking like they're just hanging in the closet.
00:36:16
DB
it
00:36:19
DB
yeah
00:36:20
matt
I don't know what y'all are doing.
00:36:20
Conor Fowler
It
00:36:21
matt
like If I wear something for four months, it's got a hole in it somewhere. mean...
00:36:26
DB
Really?
00:36:26
Conor Fowler
it would be hard to put a hole in a fucking suede jacket.
00:36:29
matt
i mean
00:36:31
DB
oh
00:36:31
matt
I guess.
00:36:32
DB
Interesting.
00:36:32
Conor Fowler
I have faith in you, Matt, of course, but you know.
00:36:32
DB
Wait, what?
00:36:36
DB
I mean, I'm curious to hear more about, you say four months and you you have some actual wear showing on the piece.
00:36:43
matt
Yeah, usually. i tend to, ah like, the way I've dressed for a very long time is I have, like, I basically have, like, five or six different, like, not not looks, that's not the right word, but, like, you know,
00:36:45
DB
Uh-huh.
00:36:50
DB
Mm-hmm.
00:37:01
matt
When i was when i worked in tailored clothing, when I worked in tailored clothing, I basically rotated between an Air Force blue fresco suit, a Navy hop sack suit, and then a brown houndstooth like wool silk linen and four for four or five Oxford shirts.
00:37:03
Conor Fowler
Shades.
00:37:17
DB
Mm. Mm.
00:37:19
matt
And like, that was it. And so, you know, like my my co coworkers would look at me like I was just out of my mind, but like I would catch, you know, catch a pocket on a table and like,
00:37:31
matt
put a couple of safety pins in it just to hold it on, even though we had a fucking tailor shop in the back. But like, that's how I, I approach clothing. So like, you know, right now I've got three, three solid pairs of pants that I wear, you know, pretty much I'll wear one for a few days in a row.
00:37:46
matt
And yeah, I literally got, got one of the pairs in ah April, April. Yeah. April from a buddy of mine. And they now have holes in the knees and I don't know how
00:37:58
Conor Fowler
I would say that you are uncharacteristically careless with your clothing.
00:38:05
matt
I mean, that's for sure.
00:38:05
Conor Fowler
Because you are careful person, i would say.
00:38:06
matt
But like, yeah, but like, you know, I don't like I don't it's not like I'm doing fit manual labor in them all the time.
00:38:12
DB
Yeah.
00:38:14
matt
But like I am moving a lot. You know, I'm lifting lifting shit.
00:38:16
DB
Yeah.
00:38:16
Conor Fowler
Well, if you were, then it would be sensible.
00:38:18
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Like I approach my the way I approach the clothing that I wear is like I'm going to be doing construction in it.
00:38:20
DB
Yeah.
00:38:25
matt
And if it can't hold up to that, then like I probably don't need to own it.
00:38:27
DB
yeah
00:38:29
DB
i I completely agree with you, Matt. I believe i approach I approach my clothing the same way.
Fashion Philosophy
00:38:35
matt
Yeah.
00:38:35
DB
I'm very careless about... Like, i I'll pick the clothes... I think a lot about what about them when i before i buy them, but once I buy them, that's it. I got to wear it.
00:38:44
matt
Right.
00:38:45
DB
It doesn't doesn't matter the weather. It doesn't matter anything.
00:38:48
matt
Yeah.
00:38:48
DB
I'll wear them.
00:38:49
matt
it
00:38:50
DB
and But I still can't get enough wear. So I've been designing, and I talk about this on Instagram on a post I did a few few a few weeks ago, but... So with the large wardrobe I have, it's the way i navigate is I try to create small capsule wardrobes within my wardrobe that I'll just wear for like a few months. It'll just be like, okay, cool. For the next few months, I'm just wearing these four shirts or whatever in order to try to get some wear and some patina on them.
00:39:16
DB
and then I'll rotate them. And I'll do the same thing with pants and jackets too. um And so it's just to try, and especially if also when I get something new first, if I get a new jacket, that's what I'm wearing for the next at least two, three weeks um over and over and over again, just not just so I can figure it out, so I can figure out the jacket itself and see how it fits into my wardrobe, but but also so that
00:39:31
matt
Right, right.
00:39:41
DB
I don't feel, it doesn't feel like I'm wearing something new. um Like, cause that's to me, one of the worst feelings.
00:39:44
matt
Right. Feeling like new clothing is the worst. New clothing is the worst.
00:39:48
DB
Yeah. it's the worst feeling in the world.
00:39:50
Conor Fowler
What is? It's like, in Return to the Dickies, like, when you get the fucking Dickies at the beginning, they are, like, plastic.
00:39:55
DB
Yeah. Yes.
00:39:57
Conor Fowler
And if you watch them a thousand times, then they become decently touchable.
00:40:03
matt
yeah
00:40:03
DB
Yes, no, 100%. And I always feel like I need to get out of that phase as quickly as possible. So I'll be like, yeah, I'm going to wear this everywhere I go. Doesn't matter even if it's a suit, I'll just wear it ah to go to the grocery store or to just like run an errand in the morning or whatever.
00:40:14
matt
yeah
00:40:20
DB
I'll just keep it on. I'll keep the jacket on everywhere I go for like the first three weeks so I can break it in and it doesn't feel new.
00:40:24
matt
Right.
00:40:27
matt
I mean, Luciano Barbera said that when you get a new suit made, or you purchase a new suit, you should sleep in it that night.
00:40:29
DB
Yeah.
00:40:35
matt
And like, okay, that makes sense.
00:40:38
DB
My father was doing this way back before she ever said that. Yeah.
00:40:44
matt
Oh, man. I don't know, man.
00:40:45
DB
of
00:40:46
matt
Luciana's been around a minute. You know what I mean? Like, that that dude's, like, got to be pushing 90 at this point.
00:40:55
matt
Yeah.
00:40:55
DB
No, but this is very serious though.
00:40:56
matt
Your dad was on to something.
00:40:58
DB
Oh, my dad was like, especially if it was a linen suit, he was I'm to wear this linen suit tomorrow. He would literally sleep in it.
00:41:04
matt
Fuck yes.
00:41:04
DB
He really would sleep in it.
00:41:05
matt
Man.
00:41:06
DB
So he wakes up and is just like, oh yeah, this is good.
00:41:06
matt
Yo, kid.
00:41:08
DB
i don't have to worry about it it anymore.
00:41:10
matt
Can your dad come on the show? but Can we do a father-son tandem show? that He sounds fucking awesome.
00:41:18
DB
He is the man. i need to check in on that. i need to check on his calendar. See what's on.
00:41:22
Conor Fowler
Oh, yes.
00:41:23
matt
Sick. We would be down. ah So this is this is a very... ah Not a strange question, but what is the most natural thing that you've photographed?
00:41:37
DB
The most natural thing I've photographed.
00:41:43
DB
um I was doing a shoot for ah for one of my friend's brands. It's called Willie Taylor & Co. And he hands makes ties. He makes these 1930s length ties.
00:41:54
DB
So it's like 27 inches long, I think.
00:41:58
matt
Oh, wow
00:41:59
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:41:59
DB
um Very brilliant. His sources is like is sources is um is silk from the same factories that Drake's uses. And we're doing a shoot on Broadway. And there was a homeless man.
00:42:11
DB
And eating like... a hot dog because there's these hot dog stands all over Broadway and they make a very, very delicious hot dog. And I think the most natural thing I did was I told him to go pose with the homeless man because we were all eating hot dogs and we shot that.
00:42:28
DB
And I think that that photo was probably, I think to me, the most natural thing I've shot.
00:42:32
matt
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:42:33
DB
Yeah. It's a, you had the homelessness and then you had the hot dogs and it was on Broadway.
00:42:38
matt
Right, right.
00:42:38
DB
That's just, that's, that's Nashville.
00:42:40
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:42:40
DB
Yeah.
00:42:41
matt
Totally. do ah Do you mostly shoot around Nashville or do you, um you know, you said you were just in New York. Were you working doing photography or is it, you know?
00:42:54
DB
I was in New York because I was asked to style the menswear team for the Buck Mason grand opening for the Soho location.
00:43:00
matt
Oh, fuck yeah. That's awesome.
00:43:03
DB
So I was asked to go there and style the menswear team for that particular day. And so I happened to I was there. So I shot, I also shot a few pictures for the grand opening itself, um which is really, really exciting, but no, I'll shoot in different places wherever they'll, wherever anybody will fly me.
00:43:19
DB
I'll go. I'm not, if my calendar allows, you know, sometimes just, yeah, but I'm always open to travel.
00:43:22
matt
Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's...
00:43:28
matt
Yeah, it's it's cool that you've kind of like obviously rolled your interest in clothing into a big portion of your photography too.
00:43:35
DB
Yeah.
00:43:37
matt
So the fact that you're able to do this rules.
00:43:37
DB
Yeah. I, Yeah, it's it's been absolutely amazing. I think I've been blessed to be in a position where I can really pick ah jobs I do.
00:43:49
DB
And so I'm trying to just shoot menswear as much as possible.
00:43:49
matt
Right.
00:43:55
DB
Whenever I shoot the things that are not menswear, you just probably will never see them. They will just be up there, but I will never post them.
00:44:04
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:44:05
DB
I don't post a lot of my work. ah the the photography jobs that I do. um but
00:44:11
matt
Is that like by design or?
00:44:14
DB
Yeah, I think by design.
00:44:15
matt
Okay.
00:44:16
DB
And i was yeah, I was talking to a lot of other photographers who have been in the industry, both in the menswear and just in photography in general.
00:44:16
matt
Gotcha.
00:44:23
DB
And they were like, yeah, you want to post the work you want to be known for as much as possible. And so I'm trying to do that ah a lot more than I was when I first came to Nashville, because that was the first time I was shooting just full time when I first came to Nashville. was just like working as a photographer.
00:44:40
DB
Yeah.
00:44:40
matt
Gotcha.
00:44:41
DB
yeah
00:44:42
matt
Is there a photo that you you know that you took years ago and you're like, this is what I want to do with my life?
00:44:55
DB
That question always freaks me out, to be honest.
00:44:57
matt
I got it. I got it. Yeah, it's it's pretty broad.
00:45:00
DB
ah What I want to do with my life is always like a scary, for me, it's always a scary thought, but um no, I don't think,
00:45:06
matt
Right. Right. Or maybe a ah favorite photo that you've taken.
00:45:11
DB
ah think i do have I do have some favorite photos that I've taken. um Some of them were, so I was doing this self ah portrait work, like this, like small menswear, like lookbook during COVID that I really liked some of the shots that came from that.
00:45:29
DB
And I was like, oh, this is actually very cool. I think during that time, i was still i was doing so i was still doing work for Chick-fil-A and i was starting to shoot a lot more. And it was the very first thing that I did that was like that I felt was like purely menswear, menswear.
00:45:44
DB
it was ah i was ah Everybody was at home and I just opened my closets. I started doing... I put together some outfits and I shot something in my house. um That was really cool.
00:45:55
DB
ah that That made me think, oh, this... ah love i love the way I see. i It made me realize how much I loved the way I so i saw clothes, clothes um how I styled them, and just the texture in pictures of of clothes. it's just It's just something about it that I'm absolutely enamored by.
00:46:17
matt
Hell yes. That's a that's a great answer and I kind of think a great way to to start to wind down the conversation.
Conclusion and Social Media
00:46:27
DB
and Oh, what? Already? It's been...
00:46:29
matt
We we try to you know try to do like 45 to an hour depending, but no, no.
00:46:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:34
DB
No, it's all good. Yeah.
00:46:35
matt
like This has been super fun and like we we haven't done like a very clothes-centric episode in a while, so this was kind of a palate cleanser for that. Yeah.
00:46:45
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:46:46
matt
Yeah, and we'll definitely have to have you back on.
00:46:46
DB
Aw.
00:46:47
matt
And yeah, yeah yeah maybe you can become one of those friend of the pod guests that just like, yo, let's talk to Daniel this week.
00:46:56
Conor Fowler
yeah well
00:46:56
DB
I love talking about clothes.
00:46:58
matt
Fuck yeah, so do we. So do we.
00:46:59
Conor Fowler
Perfect guest.
00:47:02
matt
All right. So thank you um once again for coming on. um Shout out your, you know, your accounts, your people that you want to um just have at it.
00:47:16
DB
You're made to shout out people. Oh God. Um,
00:47:19
matt
And yourself. You know, we want we want our listeners to see how rad you are. So.
00:47:23
DB
Oh, well, you can find me at DanielZBaraka on Instagram. And that's you can shoot me a DM anytime. I try to prioritize connection on Instagram always.
00:47:36
DB
um So I'm making point to respond to like all my comments and all my DMs as much as possible.
00:47:36
matt
Hell yeah.
00:47:42
DB
um And then also, yeah, if you see the Buck Mason website for fall, winter, 2025, that's probably, that's my work very often.
00:47:51
matt
Fuck yeah.
00:47:52
DB
yeah So I'll be so I am styling that as well, not as a photographer, but as a stylist on those projects. um And let me know if you need a photography job.
00:48:04
DB
Like if you have a photography job for me, especially if it's menswear, hit me up. let's ah Let's create some stuff. But also thank you guys for just having me.
00:48:11
matt
Hell.
00:48:11
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
00:48:14
DB
And i also want to shout out to my friends who are making cool stuff in Nashville. um So Aung Song House, who is a who is a bootmaker here in Nashville.
00:48:25
matt
o
00:48:26
DB
crime Grant and Isaac, they're absolutely terrific. um bocum denim bocum denim who makes denim she is a witch she's an oh she's she's one of my best friends she's unreal
00:48:30
Conor Fowler
checking that out
00:48:34
matt
Oh, I know her. Yeah.
00:48:39
matt
Oh, man. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen her in years, but I met her through the flea.
00:48:41
DB
yeah
00:48:43
matt
and like yeah she
00:48:45
DB
yeah she's
00:48:46
matt
Dude, she's oh so fucking talented. Holy shit.
00:48:48
DB
oh she's been crushing yeah kel uh kelsey bocum is an absolute witch she crushes her denim are insane but i also wanted to give her a shout out um give a shout out to my friend aaron who makes who is a handmaid who makes handmaid's ties um and also he's he's been expanding his
00:48:49
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I gotta buy some of this stuff.
00:48:52
matt
yeah
00:49:14
DB
his inventory a little bit and he's working on some very exciting projects. He released some Huaraches this summer, which that were really amazing too.
00:49:22
matt
Oh, sick. And what's his brand again?
00:49:23
DB
But ah Willie Taylor and co.
00:49:26
matt
William Taylor and co. All right Awesome.
00:49:28
DB
Yeah. Willie Taylor and co. um But I think like what's been just, I mean, obviously oil and lumber and Nashville too with Ethan. I just, so there's, there's, it's been shocking how much menswear or like brands or crafts people actually,
00:49:44
DB
there are at Nashville.
00:49:45
matt
here
00:49:45
DB
um that's been That's been a shock and a very good surprise.
00:49:50
matt
Fuck yeah. Yes.
00:49:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah, sounds welcome.
00:49:52
DB
Yeah.
00:49:52
matt
Well, ah everyone, thank you for listening. um We are at Apocalypse Duds on Instagram, ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com.
00:50:05
matt
I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
00:50:08
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Flower, at Connor Flower.
00:50:11
matt
And we will see you next week.
00:50:15
Conor Fowler
Bye bye.
00:50:16
DB
Bye.