Transcript
Conor Fowler: Good afternoon and welcome to another or yet another exciting episode of Apocalypse Studs. We are joined in studio by the indomitable Ethan Martin Thunderdome.
Ethan: Okay.
Conor Fowler: I'm Connor Fowler. Whoops.
matt: And I'm Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: I jumped the gun a little bit because I'm excited for this show. we have ah sort of found our next guest, and we have a lot in common, and so we are excited to get into it, namely hardcore punk and tailoring and Ivy and all these sort of things, bikes and the have you.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Our usual. Our usual.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, exactly. the usual show, but this guest, I think, is more tailored to it than usual.
matt: You know.
matt: Total.
Ethan: Very exciting.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Ethan, thank you for coming on. How's your day going so far?
Ethan: Thank you guys for having me. Today has been objectively a nightmare.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Ethan: I work in corporate America and corporate America is having problems right now.
matt: tough.
Ethan: So it's a lot of fires, a lot of like dealing with layoff stuff and figuring stuff out after those layoffs. I didn't get laid off, but bunch of people I know did. It's been busy.
Conor Fowler: wow
Ethan: Yeah. Uh, you know, everyone is gung ho on tech and AI and I'm sure we'll talk more about that later, but i don't want to like immediately jump into like AI bullshit with you guys.
Ethan: Cause it's, it's a lot of bullshit.
matt: but Well, yeah yeah, yeah. I was going to say, you're taking the right approach because you called it bullshit from the jump. so
Ethan: I'm not here to be like, well, there's like technical applications that could really, it's, it's all bullshit. Like any,
matt: Yeah, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: it All I've learned is that anything that you like focus on for a couple of months is going to be totally irrelevant in a couple of months because it it moves so fast, there's there's no point to try and keep track of it.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: it's It's all bullshit.
matt: And it like, correct me if I'm wrong, but like these companies are losing money and like like hand over fist.
Ethan: Oh yeah, hemorrhaging it like so fast.
matt: And like, you know, like you said, you know, if ah if a data center was finished tomorrow in six months, it's going to be irrelevant.
Ethan: Exactly. and like Think about it like Uber, like how much Uber lost getting people to use their company. and like like It was so cheap to to book a ride. And then when they actually lost all that venture capital and needed to start making money, like everything got more expensive.
matt: Right.
Ethan: We're in that part of like using the tools. So when it's time for these companies like Anthropik and OpenAI i to actually make money, We're already expecting to spend like $100,000 per person on these tools.
Ethan: And that's when they're not making money. So it's going to be so unsustainable.
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally. Also, like, i mean, he how old are you?
Ethan: I am 29.
matt: So like, I'm around a lot of people your age and younger, you know, je whatever generations they are, i guess, Z and Alpha. And like, you know, I sell vintage clothing and I've noticed that, you know, a friend of mine, Max, sells old cameras, not just film ones, but like early digital ones too.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: And there there really does seem to be like kind of a burgeoning return to like more physical or like early digital kind of shit.
matt: And, you know, I,
Conor Fowler: I think it's inevitable a little bit.
matt: I think so too. I mean, you know, record collecting year over year or record sales year over year have been climbing ridiculously since like, you know, the past 15 years or so.
Ethan: Yeah.
matt: And so, right, right.
Ethan: They overtook CD sales like 10 years ago.
matt: And I mean, you know, it's so cheap to make a CD now compared to like back in the day. And i bought my first new CDs that I purchased and God only knows how long, like two weeks ago.
matt: So.
Ethan: I don't think I bought a CD.
Ethan: The last CD I bought, I think it was in high school. I think I bought an RPG record.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: I would be curious to know me too, because like, I just torrented everything. I mean, anything that I was even slightly interested in, I had fiber optic internet in 2005 and i just downloaded it.
Ethan: Yeah, right?
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: I mean, the only CDs I've ever really bought like since I became you know a person, like an adult, were like from hardcore bands that I wanted to support.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
matt: So, you know, I bought the new Converge because it's a fucking banger of a record. And then I pre-order the new Neurosis CD. Because I have a CD and a tape player my band, it's great.
Ethan: It's so funny you guys just interviewed Nate Newton because i my barber grew up with Nate and he was like, you know, they're they're releasing another record like a couple of months.
Conor Fowler: Just...
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: i was like,
matt: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And then, yeah, yeah. I i told him on that episode, like, you know. that and ah Okay, so i want to I want to tell this story on the air. So we interviewed him on March seventeenth you know And I think I said in the interview, maybe prior, but I was like, Love is Not Enough is going to be my favorite record of the year and unless something ridiculous comes out.
matt: Three days later, Neurosis drops a record totally unbeknownst to anyone. And I was like, fuck, this going be competition now. So my my top three of the year may end up being two Converge records and a Neurosis record, and I'm not sure the order yet.
Ethan: I still need to listen to the new Neurosis album.
Conor Fowler: ah but it's all But it's April, so...
Ethan: I heard it was really good.
matt: Dude, it's
matt: it's it Well, it's April, but also I don't know what's going to top that it for me personally.
Conor Fowler: You don't know. no It's April.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, dude, shout out to that Neurosis record. It's been on repeat since it came out, and it is it immediately jumped in my top three of the releases, if that says anything. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It says...
Ethan: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Um, so what about your Instagram username?
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, that I've been taken with for so long. I mean, even well before I knew about you as a person, I knew about you having this username.
matt: Ha ha ha ha.
Conor Fowler: And it's really, i would say, probably one of the best puns that there is in this scene.
Ethan: Thank you so much for saying something about that.
Conor Fowler: And I'm not jerking you off here. I mean, I'm, I'm a connoisseur of these things, I think, and very funny. So good on you.
Ethan: Well, thank you. It actually comes from my my personal life. my I have another Instagram that I do, like you know like life updates, regular stuff, birthdays, thunderdome.rva.
Ethan: And that comes from, i've come from the cycling community in Richmond. So I do a lot of mountain biking, gravel biking, and
Conor Fowler: he
Ethan: used to race cyclocross and support cyclocross racing and Richmond has a very, it goes along with the hardcore scene. We have a very punk like scene as well. Very DIY alley cat races, that sort of stuff.
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: What is it like racing on a bike? I can only imagine the exhilaration.
Ethan: Um, it depends on the type of race. Uh, there's a lot of short track. So like think quarter to three quarters of a mile long track that you do like three or four times and you're just fucking sending it the entire time, like 180 BPM heart rate, just like like hammering it.
Conor Fowler: like sprinting. Yeah.
Ethan: But we also do a lot of long distance races. I've raised something called the Mountain Cat 100, which is a hundred mile mountain bike race through the city of Richmond.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Ethan: We actually get a lot of people from Atlanta coming up for that now. It's sort of have created its own ecosystem. That shit is awful. um
Conor Fowler: like Yeah, there's a lot of exercise.
Ethan: you
Conor Fowler: i would say all exercise probably is very awful. And cycling, I think, sounds like some of the worst.
Ethan: You end up burning something like 13,000 calories over
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it just is.
matt: Jesus Christ.
Conor Fowler: great It just is reposterous. You can't eat enough.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: You can't eat enough beans.
Ethan: it's It's a combination of Egg McMuffins, Slim Jims. Like obviously you keep the like gels and stuff, but they're disgusting. And like, they taste like salt and sweat.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah.
Ethan: Like when there's.
Conor Fowler: What did they flavor? What do you, can you think of a flavor that they give to them? Do they just, is it just like cherry or, or peanut butter?
Ethan: there's like cola flavored gels now. There's like chocolate brownie batter gels.
Conor Fowler: Jesus. Oh, I can only imagine.
Ethan: just
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Cause it's the texture. It's like the grittiness.
Ethan: It's yeah, I, there's, there's a very particular texture. Sometimes the salt is nice, but most of the time it's like, well, like, um, but there used to be, uh, uh, like an, we have a lot of old, uh, industrial stuff around Richmond. There used to be a zone that we called the Thunderdome, uh, but that just was where cyclocross races would happen during one of our like DIY bike festivals.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: Um, and then they tore it down,
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: So it goes.
Ethan: And I was looking, yeah, they we gotta put apartments somewhere. gotta put these like four by one awful, yeah, luxury studio, that kind of shit.
Conor Fowler: Right. Studio apartments.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yes.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: We're speaking the same language here.
Ethan: on
matt: yeah I grew up racing and riding BMX and then like I tried to get into fixed gear shit, you know, and when when fixed gear was exploding, like the mid aughts or whatever, and I was just like, man, this is not for me. So kudos to anyone that rides like a non 20 inch bike.
Ethan: I tried to build a fixed gear bike and i ride with a lot of guys who have fixies and you see them do all these like things that look fun.
Conor Fowler: you.
Ethan: You're like, I bet I could stop like that by just like snorting.
matt: Oh, it's so fucking hard.
Ethan: What the hell?
matt: that That was my downside.
Ethan: It just looks like cannons for legs.
matt: Like, yeah, like my friends and I were on a ride one night and like, you know, I was i was trying to master the skid or whatever, but like we came up, we were riding up Peachtree Street in Atlanta, you know, the most famous street in Atlanta.
Ethan: Oh yeah.
matt: And like, we we were almost at an intersection and the light changed. And so, like, you know, i I couldn't do it, and I fucking dislocated my shoulder because I, i like, tried to grab onto something.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Ethan: Yeah,
Ethan: yeah it's a you your body just like breaks down when you try and like put it between a bike. I've ah I've had very similar situations. I shattered my collarbone, just like kind of falling on a mountain bike.
matt: Oh, shit, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, mountain biking is, like, another breed, especially nowadays. Like, I feel like any quote-unquote extreme sport is, like,
matt: the most ridiculous version of itself at this point, but like the things that people are doing on bikes just blows my mind.
Ethan: It's terrifying. I mean, the the pros, like in order to like get a sponsorship and when we're talking about sponsorships, we're talking about basically Red Bull and a few bike brands that can't really afford to like support their riders outside of like giving them bikes.
Conor Fowler: No.
Ethan: Like, so, so you're, you're basically like fighting for Red Bull sponsorships.
matt: Right.
Ethan: And at this point you have to film parts that like blow people's mind. So it's like a dude on a moving train, like going from car to car, doing back from car.
matt: Oh dude! Yeah, yeah.
Ethan: And, and that blew everyone's mind. And then he was like, and the next video he did, I think he was like, well, next time I'll do it on a, on a road bike, but do the same thing. And like, there, there,
Ethan: If you you can't do a backflip on a road bike and not like match.
matt: Yeah, I was gonna say, how is that even possible?
Ethan: It's just these riders that are are getting more and more crazy and the sport like adapts to that.
Conor Fowler: brazen
Ethan: And now you've got like Red Bull Rampage and Red Bull Hardline that are the courses are so insane that like riders are are putting themselves in situations where you're like six inches away or six centimeters away from like losing your spine.
matt: Right.
matt: Right. Right.
Conor Fowler: do you know about swamp fest wow
Ethan: Oh, ah down in Florida?
matt: Oh, yeah.
Ethan: Absolutely.
matt: Yeah, yeah, Trey Jones, man. like I've been following that dude for so long, and like his style was so sick to me. And then just what he does for the the BMX community is awesome.
Ethan: One of the guys from Richmond, Steve Crandall, he's one of the...
matt: Oh, Steve, yeah, yeah.
Ethan: Shit. Yeah, he goes down to that like every year.
matt: Right, i don't I don't know him personally, but you know i growing up, I've heard his name a million times and like seen parts of his and shit.
Ethan: Yeah, I've, uh, I've helped him do like work on some of our jump lines in Richmond before.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Oh, that's gnarly. So, well, I guess we've established here from Richmond. Did you grow up there?
Ethan: ah I grew up in Chesterfield, which is like right outside of Richmond, but I spent a lot of time, like, you know, as soon as I could drive, I was hanging out in the river and going to, uh,
matt: Okay.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Have you ever jumped into the James from that one fucking bridge?
Ethan: I haven't jumped from the bridge, but I have jumped from that like abandoned building on Belle Isle.
matt: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.
Ethan: Yeah, it's ah the water is so low now that I don't think anyone's done it in like five years. But when I was in high school, it was just like one of those things you had to do.
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah, totally. i like I've been to the James with, you know, when I was on tour or whatever, many times and like all my friends did it and I'm terrified of heights. So I was like, yeah, you guys, you guys can have the bridge.
Ethan: Same.
matt: I'm not doing that shit.
Ethan: It turns out if you just like force yourself to do it, it's fine. Cause I am also absolutely terrified of heights specifically falling, but you know, you just, you just like stop thinking for like a couple of moments and suddenly
matt: Yeah, that's kind of impossible for me.
Conor Fowler: You will land. I mean, you definitely will land...
matt: You will land. Yeah. And, like, I jumped cliffs. You know, I jumped off, like, 25 to 40-foot cliffs when I was a kid. But, like, as I got older, I was just like, yeah, this shit ain't for me.
matt: Mm-hmm.
Ethan: Yeah, then you have to think about it when you get older. You're like, kids don't think about consequences like that. They're like, yeah, the consequences.
matt: No, no.
Ethan: I'm going to look awesome and I'm going to end up in the water. That's what's going to happen.
matt: Right, exactly. and and as an adult, you're thinking, how many boulders are there in the water where I'm trying to...
Conor Fowler: Or like, what is the fucking hospital bill going to be?
matt: like
Conor Fowler: $58,000.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: God. God.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. This might be the first time we've ever talked about like jumping into a body of water on this program. So we just popped a cherry.
Conor Fowler: I think that's right.
Ethan: That's awesome.
Conor Fowler: There's actually a video, there's a video of me doing it around here into the Patapsco River, yeah.
matt: Oh, really?
Ethan: Oh, yeah?
Conor Fowler: which I'll try to find and post because I'm like, I'm doing my shit, right? Like, so I'm like talking as I'm falling off of the bridge. while
matt: Of course, of course. Yeah, you can't pick this up and not post it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely will. um
Conor Fowler: So I guess we can start we can start the clothing part. ah
Ethan: Sure, that makes sense.
Conor Fowler: So would you tell us a little pathway? I mean, how you got into clothing? What happened? ah
Ethan: yeah um Yeah, it actually ties back to biking again.
Conor Fowler: You know.
Ethan: So I'd say like la two summers ago, summer of 2024, I finished a bike race and during that bike race, I dislocated my elbow twice, um found out there was like a bone spur that like grew around a tendon and it like needed to come out.
Ethan: So scheduled like surgery, took it out. And then they were like, you're off the bike for seven weeks, eight weeks, something like that. I downloaded Twitter and this was like around the time that Derek guy was like really blowing up on Twitter, you know, like talking shit to like poorly dressed Republicans and and making fun of people.
Ethan: And I was like, I was like, yeah, I absolutely resonate with this.
Conor Fowler: God bless.
Ethan: This is funny. um I started thinking more about the way that I was like dressing. i never really like considered myself not fashionable i've i've always been someone who like sought out clothes or specific things i was a big sneaker head for a long time i was really into streetwear for a long time i collected box logos did the whole supreme stock x resale thing i collected nike sp dunks for a long time on and you know we just sort of felt like i wanted to start dressing as as someone who was approaching 30 and it was time to like you know get out of the like graphic t-shirt and
Ethan: button down over top of that kind of style. So I bought two suits online. One of them was from the RealReal. It was like a Armani Collisioni suit.
Ethan: And the other one was from our Lord and Savior Joseph A. Bank.
matt: Yeah,
Conor Fowler: Sure. You know, but that is a Baltimore brand. Yeah.
Ethan: I didn't even know that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: yeah yeah, yeah.
Ethan: Wow. Wow.
matt: And they also, to interject, like, the JAB of the 2010s and twenty I guess the whole 2000s is not what they originally were.
Ethan: Oh, I, uh, I definitely learned that the hard way.
matt: So...
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ethan: Um,
matt: like Like classic, like early, I don't know, I guess 70s stuff, maybe up until the 90s, they were using, you know, Norman Hilton and like Hickey Freeman and factories that were really making great American clothing.
Ethan: yeah.
matt: And then the glue seeped in
Ethan: Oh, it, it, yeah. And that's, uh, that's what I bought. I basically got two suits and was like, I'm going to look great in both of these. And that, that didn't happen at all. Like, um, you know, I look back at those photos as I came to my cousin's wedding or like whatever party day I was at. It's like, these don't look good. They look like I'm busting out of this suit.
Ethan: Like, um, and I, I, I basically tackled it the same way I tackle every thing that I, I'm not like
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: hitting it right. i'm like, well, I basically get a funnel all of my time into this until I think I'm doing a good job. It's like the same thing with the mountain. Like after I broke my collarbone up, like most people would be like, that's enough for me. And I was like, screw this.
Ethan: going to spend my entire recovery researching exactly how I fell exactly how not to do that. And that's basically what I did with clothes. So like, uh, I've really only been doing this for a year and a half, like two years. Um,
Conor Fowler: It's pretty surprising. Like if people, if people look at your Instagram, like people would be very surprised to hear that.
matt: Yeah, yeah, dude.
Conor Fowler: I think even though there are only like 50 posts on there.
matt: I was very surprised to hear that.
Ethan: I
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: i don't think that it's been, i mean, it's crazy just because i'm I think I've been like thrifting at least one or two pieces a week since I started just because like every every week I like look at my wardrobe and I'm like,
Ethan: where are the holes that I see now? Are, are there like, I would buy bandaid cut type pieces. And then like, after a couple months be like, that was a mistake. I need to i like, I'm not going to like seek something out like that.
Ethan: but
Conor Fowler: spent the extra hundred bucks or whatever.
Ethan: Exactly. Like I went two years without a Navy blazer just because
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: They're hard to come by. I mean, in in modernity, like they are almost impossible to find. so
matt: Also, secondhand, like that's the thing that everyone that likes tailored clothing has.
Ethan: it's,
matt: And they keep it for eternity.
Conor Fowler: Right. And they're looking they're looking for it.
matt: so
Conor Fowler: It's like if it shows up in the thrift store, it's gone.
matt: So, yes. Well, if it shows up in the...
Ethan: And here I thought it would just like show up because there's so many of them.
matt: Right. And if it shows up, it's usually because the person died. No one throws out a perfectly good Navy Blazer.
Ethan: Honestly, it's that's the worst part. I thought Richmond would be a good thrifting city because we have like U of R and we had an old Elgis location for a long time, which was like the same tailor shop that UVA used, but it's been pretty, pretty hard to like thrift in person in Richmond. We've got a goodwill that we'll have, like, I would go to like four times a week and get maybe one item of clothing a month.
Ethan: And then we have it.
Conor Fowler: That sounds about right. Yeah.
Ethan: It's just more of a laid back city. There's just not a huge like population of people who were, like at any point in time, who were really like seeking out, tailoring, like half that.
matt: right. you You're random VCU professor that like lived there and taught for 30 years, but...
Ethan: And even the VCU professors are are already kind of like lean punk and and more radical. like
matt: Right, right, yeah. I have a buddy that is a professor there, so I know this very well.
Ethan: They're probably...
Ethan: And it's it's it's just the culture of Richmond. there're For for like a large metropolitan area, it's not large at all. i mean are We have a river that runs through the entire city, and it's completely undeveloped, which gives you an idea of how many people are actually in the city.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: It's always been like it's always felt like a very... like small town type of vibe.
Conor Fowler: Hey, do you know what the population is approximately?
Ethan: Uh, I don't, but I do know when I was in Pittsburgh, um, I have a bunch of family there.
Conor Fowler: I'm looking it up. You don't have to know.
Ethan: Um, I was talking to a guy who works at Festus in Pittsburgh and like the entire city of Pittsburgh has the population of Richmond and all of its surrounding counties. So like a lot of people like see Richmond and they see like the counties Henrico and Chesterfield and they're like, oh yeah, that's like all Richmond.
matt: Wow.
Ethan: Um, but Richmond itself is much, much smaller. And yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's only 200,000, 226,000 people.
matt: Right. Wow.
Ethan: Yeah.
matt: that's That's a lot smaller than I would have expected, like, population-wise.
Ethan: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: it's act And it's the fourth most populous city in Virginia. So it's like, yeah.
Ethan: Thanks, Norfolk.
matt: Right. what What's the first?
Conor Fowler: i would imagine it's Alexandria Arlington.
Ethan: I would say that's what I was going to guess.
matt: Yeah, true. True. Yeah. So it's probably, like, one of those two, one and two, and then, like, maybe Charlottesville and Richmond.
Conor Fowler: Blacksburg or Charlottesburg. Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: I would say Charlottesville may be maybe Norfolk because it's such a big Navy city.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: and Oh yeah. Navy. Or I feel like one of those like Newport news might be huge. I don't know.
Ethan: Newport News is about the same size as Richmond. It's where I went to college. it's ah It's just like, it's just Richmond by the water. I wouldn't say it's coastal, but it's by the water.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Interesting. Well, so this is topical at this point. So I feel like I have to insert this, but do you know that there is an argument over whether or not Virginia is a Southern state? Yeah.
Ethan: Yeah, that seems pretty on brand for Richmond. I mean, obviously, Richmond is a capital the capital of Confederacy or whatever.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: But at the same time, ah outside of like metropolitan, well, inside metropolitan areas, you you really couldn't tell that. I mean, obviously, Richmond had a pretty big monument issue a couple of years back.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Ethan: but They're all gone now. there There just aren't people like that in ah in everyday life. I definitely will see Republicans or very Southern people outside of the city.
Ethan: And you can get sweet tea in places in Richmond and they're not going to look at you like you're crazy. Like if you if you do it in like Baltimore or in Pennsylvania.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Interesting.
Ethan: But. i've I've never really considered Richmond to be like a southern city or Virginia to be, especially Nova is not in the south. Absolutely not.
Conor Fowler: Well, yeah, I just think it's like, you can't get, you can't get away from it. It's like, um, my family, some of my family lives in like Salem Roanoke and that place is like,
Conor Fowler: That is like not a place where there are even progressives as far as I can tell.
Ethan: They probably didn't realize that Western Pennsylvania is a lot like that too. It's just the the whole Appalachian like sector, not like specifically Appalachian for whatever reason, people who like are actually Appalachian, um, lean a lot more left than, than your like typical Western Virginia, Western, Western Virginia.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: For sure. That's the unions. I mean, that's like the strength of the unions, I would say.
matt: Yeah, it 100% is. I mean, my like I'm from Lower Appalachia. And my hometown was like as blue as it gets until probably the late 90s, early 2000s.
Ethan: And that's like when blue dogs kind of started dying off, right? Like the working class.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Ethan: like
Conor Fowler: Right. but The people who advocated for the working class. Right.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: So it's weird.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's weird that they've just stopped having support. I mean, very interesting.
Ethan: I grew up with ah with a family of, they call they're called Western Pennsylvania Democrats because they they vote blue, but don't have any beliefs that you would generally align with people who vote blue.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Huh.
Ethan: And but they' they'd be like, yeah, but I'll vote for him. i'd be like, do you agree with anything he says? they like, no, not really. But I'm not going to vote for Republican. or All right. Well, it's fair, I guess.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ethan: So votes and votes.
matt: I feel like i feel like Clinton, that Bill Clinton was the linchpin of all of this. Like, you know, NAFTA, which fucked a lot of fucking, you know, working class people.
matt: And then, you know, GWB came in with like his, or that.
Conor Fowler: Compassionate conservatism, as that as it is called.
matt: Right, right. Which is, Which is, yeah, which is, like, maybe one of the biggest oxymorons of the entire, like, existence of humanity.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: But, you know, like, the sex scandal, especially in, like, southern parts of the U.S., s like, you know, that that was like a, which is, ah the irony is not lost on me that the Epstein.
Ethan: Hmm.
Conor Fowler: well people forget that bill clinton is from the south
matt: Well, yeah, yeah.
Ethan: He's an Alabama gentleman, isn't he?
matt: Yeah, but, you know, like, it's it's just wild but that that turned the tables so hard when, like, we're in 2026 and the Epstein shit is still, like, lingering.
Conor Fowler: Well, it was the perfect moment.
matt: But...
Conor Fowler: I mean, it was perfect.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That was the perfect thing that could have happened to make the Republicans gain huge amounts of power.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: And so they did.
matt: Yes.
Ethan: We're talking about the Clinton scandal, right? the so like
matt: Yeah, we're talking about the Clinton scandal.
Conor Fowler: yeah The Lewinsky scandal, I guess.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: They both had a part in it, sure.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: It's a ah joint effort. and
Conor Fowler: Well, i just feel like if she is like probably not a piece of shit.
matt: I mean...
Conor Fowler: So it's like.
Ethan: I've heard she's not. she's she's She's done stuff in her... She's like written stuff. She seems like a nice woman.
matt: Yeah, she does.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: She does. And the Clintons have come out to basically be, like, the bane of anyone's existence with a brain. Like, they they should have left politics a long time ago. They don't need the fucking money.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Ethan: That's just, that's what our system has become though. It's like, you know, once you're there, you hold on as hard as you can until you're dead. And like any, like progressives be damned.
Ethan: Like I've i've been here, I'm gonna, gonna stay here and keep themselves in power.
matt: Right, totally, totally.
Ethan: and Do you think that like the the shift So like, obviously Bill Clinton had this scandal and that probably doesn't agree with what, you know, Southern morality structure, you know, and that probably but like, obviously what you said now with things that are happening and most of the people that would have probably had issues with the Clinton and Lewinsky scandal are now just like, oh, but it's fine.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Ethan: Do you think that be, What do you think happened between now and then besides the giant call to personality to like make these people, do you think it's just like a desensitization that they, like over time, these things bothered them less and less because they're seeing them so often.
Ethan: So now that we have something that like, we objectively are like, oh yeah, that's really fucked up that he can, people are just like, you know what?
matt: Right, right. That's a great question. um i i think that plays a part of it for sure. But I also think just the like the sportification of our political climate in the U.S. like Democrats versus Republicans, etc.
matt: and like everyone you know everyone wants to back a cult of personality, which I think is terrible for politics and like for actual governance. like you know even Even when I was like very into Bernie Sanders in 2016, I realized that like you you don't need to have like this kind of rockstarization politicians. That's bad for everybody.
Conor Fowler: Because bureaucracy is boring, and it should be boring, because it's everyone should be equal, right?
Ethan: Yeah. Yeah, they should.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: yeah they should
matt: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Like, you know, there's there's been this in the past. Don't get me wrong. Like JFK, Richard Nixon for the right. You know, like Reagan, obviously. But it's...
Conor Fowler: Well, and Bill Clinton, to an extent, the first the first the first black president, right?
matt: And Bill Clinton, to an extent, you know the first black president. I knew you were going to say that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: You know, yeah. Like John Mulaney, I think, has a... Or yes, he it is John Mulaney that has a bit where he was like, he was the first cool politician we'd ever seen. And um I don't disagree with that, but like that kind of, that kind of mentality I think has led into the moment that we're in.
Ethan: Yeah, cool should be second to like effective and like what you agree with.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's the have a beer with them like metric. Whether or not you should have a beer with someone has nothing to do with whether or not they are administering foreign policy.
matt: Right, right. Like.
Ethan: Right.
matt: Right.
Ethan: Like, I think what Gavin Newsom is doing right now was hilarious.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Ethan: Um, and he's, he's coming off like a total bro about it, which, which is funny, but we shouldn't like just be throwing all of our weight behind him as the next potential candidate, just because he's like, he's just doing what the other guy's doing back at him.
matt: No, fuck no.
Ethan: And it's
Conor Fowler: Do you know, do you know how he made his money?
Ethan: no, but I'm going to assume is not great because he's a politician.
Conor Fowler: you know that?
matt: I don't know.
Conor Fowler: Because I do know. So Giuseppe, ah a guest that has been on this show, um in affordable wardrobe.
matt: Yes, yes.
Conor Fowler: And ah he told me that it's wine his dad gave him a ton of money and he has a winery or a wine business basically.
matt: It's...
matt: Wow. Right.
Conor Fowler: And that's how he has made his money.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: So
matt: I think I might have known this, but like, yeah, yeah, it does it that strike.
Ethan: That's California that tracks.
Conor Fowler: it makes a complete sense, but it's like, now that I know that I'm just like, okay, so definitely not this guy.
matt: Sadler.
matt: Well, yeah, to be fair, like, I think anyone with two working brain cells already realized that like, Gavin Newsom sucks.
Conor Fowler: ah
matt: And it's just, it's just more of the same shit.
Conor Fowler: He's a...
Ethan: I think you'd be surprised how many how few people have two working brain cells that vote.
matt: Yeah, this is true.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: This is very true. Yeah, yeah. I haven't spent time on Twitter in a very long time, so that's that's good.
Conor Fowler: And that's for the best.
Ethan: you're not yeah you're You're not missing a whole lot.
matt: So ah to transition from this really funny and very pertinent discussion, ah was there like a particular garment that kind of like spurned your interest and in pursuing, you know, ah let's say a
Ethan: Headaches.
Ethan: Yeah.
matt: a different playing field in clothing.
Ethan: It definitely started with like the Armani Big Fit suits. I was i was like pulling every like advertisement they'd done in the ninety s and like saving it to a folder on my phone and was like actively seeking out these like beige, grayish, like really flowy Pat Riley suits.
Ethan: Like it was is all I could think about.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: like and um I just started like posting fits on, on a discord, uh, uh, uh, called MFAD. Um, it's doing like, okay.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: There I wasn't, I didn't think I was doing anything cohesive. I, At that time, I think I like thrifted ah like a sport coat from a Goodwill, a couple of like random Eddie Bauer sport coats, some like random khakis, like some vintage Hager or Hager stuff.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Ethan: And a buddy, a buddy of mine, Zach Smith from Wee John's was like, hey, see you posting here.
Conor Fowler: trigger
Ethan: you should probably post over here instead. um I got the invite and it just sort of like spiraled from there. I was really taking a lot of inspiration from other people. I don't have that like creativity gene that gets me the ability to like come up with things on my own.
Ethan: And I don't want to say I'm just biting.
Conor Fowler: I don't think that's true. I reject that because I've seen the Instagram.
Ethan: I,
Conor Fowler: I've seen the Instagram, whether you have stolen them or not, it's you wearing them, you know, and it's, and it's, it's convincing, right?
Ethan: I am definitely wearing them and I wouldn't say I've stolen them.
Conor Fowler: It's like, you don't look like you're going to shit yourself. It's like, you look like a normal, you look like a normal person.
Ethan: Thank God that's what I'm going for.
Conor Fowler: What you look like, ah you look like an old person. and I don't know. I mean, I think that, um, and I've definitely been guilty of this. Like sometimes people are a little too, I guess their britches are too big for them.
Conor Fowler: Right. It's like they're the clothes is wearing them. And this has happened to me before a lot of the time it's happened.
Ethan: I definitely
matt: um It's happened to all of us.
Conor Fowler: It's a common experience. Right.
matt: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: um
Ethan: I've definitely found that happens the most when I'm like, riffing on an outfit directly. Like if I have i have a lot of Drake's lookbook stuff, save my phone. If I try and like rip something directly from Drake's, like, first off, I'll get like 10 messages immediately from from people who were like, just sending me the exact photo I was ripping off of. And I look at those photos later and I go like, I don't even look like I'm wearing that. Like it looks like I'm i'm trying to copy something else.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: And so I've gotten better at reinterpolating fits and and being like, oh, okay, well, if he's wearing like a popover, like i I can find something with that sort of texture, but maybe not that color.
Ethan: And that will like change the rest of the pieces I'm using as well. So if like it was like a gray shirt with ah like a navy sport coat, I'll probably swap a shirt out for something rougher, but like beige or or like light brown, and then do a gray sport coat on top of that.
Conor Fowler: you.
Ethan: and And so it they they look more like me and less like I'm trying to be something else. But to answer your original question, which is like that one thing that like really set it off, it was a I started looking for a vintage double-breasted pinstripe suit from Polo Ralph Lauren.
Ethan: I was like,
matt: That's strongest shit.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, that's...
matt: Jesus Christ. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: I was, I saw lots of really cool photos of of some of them were like vintage catalog photos. Some of them were photos from people who just have that kind of stuff. And I was like, that seems really powerful. It's it's very flashy, but also looks sophisticated.
Ethan: I'm sure I could find one of these in like a couple of months if I try. And that didn't, that didn't happen because I recently discovered that shit is so hard to find.
matt: Right, right.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: I, it took, actually a year and a half of every day logging in, looking at my save search, like without fail. And then a month ago, I finally found one at a price that didn't make me throw up.
Conor Fowler: Really?
Ethan: Yeah. And it was, yeah, I did finally.
Conor Fowler: So you got it.
Ethan: and now ah And now my life is complete and I have no more need for clothes. No, that's not.
Conor Fowler: right i was gonna say and then you can hang up your jacket because you're done forever
Ethan: I think they I thought that too. I was like, well, I found, I finally found that like capstone piece that like that final piece. And then like 20 minutes later, I bought a couch and sweater.
Ethan: I was like, oh,
matt: Yeah, you're you're never gonna find the final piece. like
Ethan: I don't want to.
matt: you know
Conor Fowler: and that's great right that's awesome because if you were done with this what would even be the point of being live
matt: Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, yeah,
Ethan: yeah I'd have to find a new hobby something.
matt: yeah we we all
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: we all need hobbies.
Ethan: mean,
matt: We all need to collect things. like
Ethan: Yeah, you know,
matt: There's nothing wrong with it, within moderation, obviously.
Conor Fowler: People don't understand clothing as a hobby, I think.
Ethan: as well.
Conor Fowler: Like, people will ask me, you know, like, what do you like to do? Well, I like to look at pictures of clothes on the internet and then talk about them.
Ethan: That was a, it was big,
Conor Fowler: That's what I like to do. That's like what I spend 80% my time doing.
Ethan: It was a pretty big change for my wife, honestly, because like she was used to me like getting off of work and then going on like a four hour mountain biker or like road bike ride and then coming home drenched in sweat. And instead, I'd come home and just stare at my closet for like 45 minutes and go what am I missing?
Ethan: Or like, does this need to be reorganized? Or maybe the sport coats need to go on the outside rack.
Conor Fowler: Dude... dude
matt: I mean, it's it's not dissimilar from like that scene in High Fidelity where John Cusack reorganizes his record collection. And then it's like, this is it done chronologically.
matt: And you're like, no one ever thinks this. But yes, people think this.
Ethan: Yeah, that that is, i i joke about this my friends all the time. It is the phenomenon of like the adult hobby where And it's just every adult hobby where as an outside observer, you have this idea of like what you think should go along with that hobby.
matt: Right,
Ethan: And it works for anything. It works for clothes. It works for records. It works for bikes. You're like, oh yeah, that guy's into records. I bet he spent maybe 200, $300 on his record player and system.
Ethan: That seems like a fair amount of money to spend on a record player system. And then you talk to some of these people and they're like, yeah, so the receiver $1,500 and
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: No, dude. Yeah, eight Gs.
matt: right.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah. I bought ah bought a Macintosh fucking power amplifier for my record player. Right,
Ethan: Yeah, bikes are the same way. You're like, how much you think a bike costs? You're like, i don't know, like $600, $700, like
Conor Fowler: Right.
Ethan: more than my car actually
Conor Fowler: Yeah, no.
matt: right.
Conor Fowler: And that's a funny, um what's it called? Differential. ah Like, because there is that, like, ah how much does a gallon of milk cost kind of thing to tie it back to politics?
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Like,
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: I just think unless you're in this scene, like you would have no idea. and that makes total sense, right? Why should people know the cost of shit? um But it is funny.
matt: Yeah, its
Conor Fowler: I mean, it is our own little thing.
matt: it's our own niche.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: Yeah. It's important to have, like, know, having that larger thing to, like, dive into. i mean, that's how niche culture is created.
Ethan: You know, you can see things from the outside and have a general idea, but getting into it is really the only way you're going to be like, oh,
matt: Totally.
Ethan: This is, this is, you know, I had a general idea of like, you know, I could buy like a $200 suit and another $200 suit and then I'm set. And then as soon as you have those things, they're like, wait a minute, this sucks.
Ethan: Like, what am I doing?
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Right. Right.
Ethan: You start thinking about like, collar roll and, and like, uh, button stance and like where the gorges and like, I cannot
Conor Fowler: Patch pockets, all this kind of information.
Ethan: i cannot If you told me a year ago that I would stop buying jackets that didn't have patch pockets, unless they had patch pockets with flaps, I'd be like, that's so that's so random. like why I absolutely have no problem just buying like a regular sport. Wrong. like it's It's some disease in my brain now where I can only buy like undarted sack jackets.
Ethan: and Or else my brain is like, you can't wear it.
matt: Right, right, right.
Ethan: I don't care.
Conor Fowler: it's good to It's good to have like eccentricities, I think. um So this is topical also. Like, what is your take on the hardcore to haute couture pipeline?
Conor Fowler: ah Why so many punks are in tailoring?
Ethan: I think the the one thing that makes the most sense to me is the same reason why you see so many hardcore bands, not so many, but a lot of hardcore bands like slowly shifting out of that space, all turd style, fiddlehead, code orange.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: and the
Ethan: You know, hardcore, while the the songwriting of hardcore really comes from like a place of maturity.
Ethan: i think a lot of of bands at some point would like to start doing things differently. They they try to get out of this like, you know, mold of hardcore and and people look into do different things and and but and a lot of that comes through different sound and i think tailoring is just the other side of that like there's there is an image ah you like you close your eyes and you can see the camo pants and the overalls and the t-shirts um there's there's just an image like associated with the scene um yeah exactly um i had two different pairs of camo overalls one that was duck and one that was real tree and i'd wear them all turn alternating
Conor Fowler: he
Conor Fowler: The Camo cargo short.
Conor Fowler: That's good, though.
matt: Nice. Yeah, yeah. That's also a very Richmond-sounding hardcore show fit.
Ethan: Yeah. it And I think people are just trying to be different in a way that isn't corny. Because that's such a ah big thing in hardcore too, is like trying not to look like you're doing too much.
Ethan: And you think that, exactly.
Conor Fowler: trying too hard, whatever. Yeah.
Ethan: And you'd think like tailoring would have the like complete opposite effect. Like you show up to a show at like a sport code, everyone's going to look at you like, like this guy, I wouldn't dress like this. If I get UB tickets, I'm not going dressed like this.
Ethan: I'm also probably not gonna go like in a hardcore costume either. I'll find a rugby shirt and like some some polo Andrews shorts or i'll i'll rip I'll cut off a pair of polo Andrews, a tournament of cutoffs or something. That's that's probably what I'm gonna go for.
Ethan: And I think that will will keep enough eyes off of me that I'm like, because just i if I show up with like a double-breasted blazer to watch like it play like guy,
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I mean, i was wearing a tweed jacket and like a knit tie oftentimes.
Ethan: dis scout
Conor Fowler: I don't know why I was doing that, but it just is like what I was liking, you know, and I don't I mean, I still wear a tie a lot. I don't know that there's any excuse for it. But the point of this program, I guess, is that I don't really need one.
Ethan: Yeah, I mean, i i'm definitely the only person who wears a tie consistently into my office. and and like And corporate America, you'd think that there would be like more of a justification there.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: mean,
Conor Fowler: People don't like to wear them because they're like uncomfortable.
Ethan: they're doing it wrong. like we've
Conor Fowler: Right? Exactly. yeah
matt: Yeah, yeah. When I worked in like menswear, you know, the hashtag menswear era and shortly after that, like I always said a black knit tie was the punk rock tie.
matt: And I'm not, I don't think I'm wrong. Like, you know, it, yeah, dude, you should, a black a black knit and a black grenadine are the two ties that I wore almost every day when I was in the suit and tie.
Ethan: No, it's still one of the things I need to get.
Ethan: That makes sense. Because grenadine has such a beautiful texture to it too. that
matt: Yeah, totally, totally.
Ethan: like Some of the stuff that is like interesting for like the sake of being interesting can still just be good. like
matt: Yep.
Ethan: A lot of the textured silk ties and stuff like that, i but i would put in that same category.
matt: Yeah, agreed. And like, not everyone looks cool in a rep strike. Like not everyone looks cool in a Fowler.
Ethan: God, I wish everyone looked good at the stripe.
matt: Like those are those are ties that you can wear with basically anything.
Ethan: I agree. i'm on ah I'm on a rep stripe kick right now. I think the last seven ties, I've never rep stripe ties.
matt: ah Dude, I love a rep stripe on other people. When I've tried to wear them, I feel i feel like a fucking clown.
Conor Fowler: And
matt: So, that was just never my shit.
Ethan: That's totally, and that's totally fair because knit ties are like to a, to a person who's like looking from a professional standpoint, like the knit tie is going to read casual and then to everyone else that knit tie is going to read as you know formal because yeah, exactly.
matt: Exactly.
Conor Fowler: you're wearing a tie.
matt: Yeah, a tie in general it's just going to be formal, no matter what you have with it.
Conor Fowler: Cause these rules are like, or whatever, to the extent that they ever were rules. I mean, I guess they, they probably were like in the fifties, like they would have like told you to go home or something, get a different tie.
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Conor Fowler: i don't know.
matt: Yeah, and in 2026, if you're wearing a tie in an office, chances are you're going to be one of the few.
Ethan: I wasn't there.
Ethan: Yeah, you may get someone commenting you're like, oh you got an interview later. But like that's that's about the extent of people commenting on the way.
matt: Right, right, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Why are you so dressed up?
matt: Right.
Ethan: You get those like one week and then you keep doing it and everyone's like, oh, he's just that guy. You're like, all right, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. He just is a pompous piece of shit.
matt: Yeah, you you just... but You become the guy that wears a jacket and tie every day.
Conor Fowler: if
Ethan: Much better.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. And I've unfortunately have been that guy for a while.
matt: I think it's a badge of honor. You know, fuck it.
Conor Fowler: A badge of Connor.
matt: what
Ethan: Yeah.
matt: A badge of Connor, for sure.
Ethan: I like that.
matt: So...
Ethan: I try to wear a jacket and tie every day, but it, you know, it's hot first off.
Conor Fowler: What are you?
Ethan: And i can only find, i only have one like summer wearing jacket right now.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it is hot. It's unforgiving.
Ethan: It's like a linen silk thing. They're hard to find secondhand too. And, um,
matt: Yeah, they are.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah. It's yeah, I found my one Ralph, probably like one recent Ralph thing that I found few years ago, like ah three to roll flax jacket in Virginia, like in rural Virginia somewhere.
Ethan: That's really nice. I have been meaning to make a trip out to like the the Danville area, like the it's sort of like northeast of Roanoke, but also northwest of Richmond.
Ethan: So it sits a little bit outside of like Harrisburg, where JMU is that area.
Conor Fowler: Okay. Yeah, that's kind of what that's around where it was. I mean, there's a lot of nice little stuff out there. Like I'm fond of this place writes dairy, which I know I've talked about on the show before, which like they make the donuts and the ice cream and they will give you a donut with ice cream on it.
Ethan: That's beautiful.
Conor Fowler: That's nice. That's very nice. Whatever it is. And you can order there with the phone. Like every table has a phone and it's directly to the kitchen. You say like, I need another hot dog, please. Okay.
Conor Fowler: and they'll deliver you hot dog.
Ethan: I can only imagine what that's like. i guess I guess it goes to a server. You can't expect like the guy on the line to like pick up the phone while it's flippant stuff.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: It's a sophisticated operation that is what it comes down to. I mean, they are, it's a drive-through.
Ethan: Where is this place?
Conor Fowler: It's Wright's Dairy. It's near like ah that military academy down there.
Ethan: Oh, VMI.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Ethan: Oh, I know where that is.
Conor Fowler: it's like Robert E. Lee's birthplace, right? Staunton, Virginia.
Ethan: Oh, yeah. I know where this is. okay
Conor Fowler: Dude, check out Wright's Dairy. If it's still there, highly recommend. It's the kind of place where a hamburger costs $2.30. Like it's just, is not a real, it's just, it's in a different universe. Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: Do you think places like that, because they they still exist some places, a lot of them are like outside of metropolitan areas. Do you think those places have like any concern of sustainability?
Ethan: And I don't mean like sustainability, is like where they're getting their meat from or things like that, but just like long term, like, do you think they care about sticking around like
Conor Fowler: he Yeah.
Ethan: I don't know what their profit, margin what places like that, their profit margins look like, but I've certainly been to enough that I'm like, this, this is so nice. And I never want places like this to leave, but then you go anywhere else you feel like it's inevitable that they're
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it would be so hard. I mean, it would be so hard to
Conor Fowler: I don't know, to, to like staff a place like that, to like pay everyone fairly. Um, and then to keep your prices, like if you want to keep your prices at two 60, a hamburger, like, what are you, what corners are you cutting?
Ethan: Right. Like there's, ah there's this guy who has like a burger tour book of America. And he puts us, there's a spot in Lynchburg, Virginia, that's on his book.
Ethan: And it's just like that. It's like burger is $1.50.
Ethan: If you want cheese, it's an extra 50 cents. You want lettuce, 25 cents.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: You're like, this feels fun and novel. and And the burger that you get is delicious. But like, where, where is like, It's the same thing like where's $20 white t-shirt come from? Where does where does a $2 hamburger?
Ethan: Like where is that coming from?
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Ah, the old America that that we once knew and loved somehow continues.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ethan: Just reminiscing.
matt: ah Ethan, how did you and how long ago did you get into hardcore?
Ethan: um i've been listening to hard course about 2016 ish um i want to say the first show i went to was like the united blood that was taking place that year um uh converge played um man who else was there i think code orange was there
matt: Okay, yeah.
matt: Nice, yeah.
Ethan: but At that point, I was like, really, I had come from like the post hardcore scene and was dating someone who was like beginning hardcore. So I immediately started like gravitating towards the more metalcore adjacent stuff.
Ethan: And that's how I found like Code Orange and Vein FM um and Convert. And then I found Converge and like that like opened up. uh math core and just the like the new england uh the heavy scene for me um and through them i i started listening to a ton of cave-in um i would say bad still just because everything they've done has been interesting for different reasons even like the interscope record they did was was a lot of fun like at the end of the day yeah
matt: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Mm-mm-mm.
matt: Wait, is that Jupiter?
Ethan: yeah
matt: Yeah, yeah. I hated that record when it came out, and i have it has grown on me over the years. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That happens though, right? I mean, I feel like plenty of records I have been like, God, this fucking sucks. And then like in a week, I'm like, oh now I've listened to it 300 times.
matt: Right, right. right right
Conor Fowler: Like I get it.
Ethan: Yeah, that's that's a a very normal thing. And it's part of maturing too, is like having different tastes. There was definitely a lot of, like when I started listening hardcore, a lot of like traditional, what I would say, beat-down hardcore, hardco like like a uh gorilla biscuits or cro mags like that kind of stuff was not really resonating with me because like it's like well this is just like simple to me like i was i was coming from like a lot more complicated like time signature stuff uh my to give you an idea my favorite band before i was a hardcore person was dance gab and dance and i was like so if if they were like noodling and doing like
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Sure. I've seen them a couple of times. Yeah.
Ethan: They've been fun live before, but yeah if if they weren't like noodling or doing something weird with the tempo, like it just wasn't interesting to me.
matt: Right.
Ethan: And it took me a long time before I started really appreciating hardcore for like the lyrics before and like the heaviness for the sake of being heavy. So it's it the the complexity of the music isn't as important in hardcore and it doesn't need to be because it's more about the metal.
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally.
Conor Fowler: No, I feel you. I mean, like, i was listening to a lot of math rock, I feel like, and that informed my ah hardcore taste, you know?
matt: Yeah. And math rock is not at all my shit. Never has been.
Ethan: i I'm on Connor's team here. I'm ah i' a big supporter of that.
matt: Yeah, I get it. I understand why people like it. Like, also, turnstile is not my shit. But I understand, you know, I understand why it's huge.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: i'm Dude, they those guys have put in the work.
Ethan: Yeah, right.
matt: ah Guys and girl, I think, now. But, like, you know, they like, Trapped Under Ice was a huge band for me when they came out.
Ethan: Now.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, me too.
matt: And, like, they were, you know, kind of like,
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: And now it's like Angel Dust, right? They're doing like acoustic style stuff, which is totally different from TUI.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like Justice, Justice is fucking ruled. I've known that dude, you know, not personally, like very personally, evil but like I've been around him and and i have we have tons of mutual friends.
matt: Like, you know, it was just like Turnstile started out on that tip and then they, they you know, kind of like Angel Dust blew above it.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: And that's great. I think it's great for the culture.
Ethan: Yeah, ah the hardcore doesn't need to just be like this one thing. But if I'm okay with it being that one thing, like, I i don't think Turnstile will overtop pressure to succeed as an EP.
Ethan: Like, I don't mind a lot of their newer stuff.
matt: Yeah,
Ethan: But like, yeah, right outside of Step to Rhythm, I don't really listen to any of their stuff. Like after that album came out, it's like, a it's not bad.
matt: yeah. yeah But like they're getting you know they're getting new people into it. They're getting kids into it that haven't heard you know their early stuff.
Ethan: Oh my God, yeah.
matt: like I'm stoked for for all of this, like even if it's not my thing. I can appreciate it.
Ethan: Yeah, Turdstile played like a ah like an outdoor show in Richmond. It was like they packed the whole the whole venue. it's It's on an island and it was it was packed. And to just see that many people come out for it, I didn't buy tickets.
Ethan: I watched from the bridge above the venue.
matt: but
Ethan: Just to see like everybody there like losing their minds. And it was tons of kids too, like under 20.
matt: Right.
Ethan: under twenty
Conor Fowler: yeah they did that they did one in baltimore too like everyone was there
matt: Oh yeah, that Baltimore one, I've seen footage from, and that was ridiculous.
Conor Fowler: a little park
Ethan: still I still have not been up to Baltimore for a hardcore show, but I keep meaning to at some point because, well, for one, you guys have a ah great scene.
Ethan: I think Ended's been doing a lot of really great stuff.
matt: ah Dude, that ended record from last year was one of my top. Like, yeah, it's so fucking good.
Ethan: Absolutely insane.
matt: And they're cool as shit. Like, I don't know. I always associate like Richmond, ah Baltimore, and Philly as like three of my favorite hardcore cities.
matt: And like since, you know, since I went to any of them. And yeah, the shit coming out of all three is always so good.
Ethan: wish i I wish I had knew more about like what was going on in Richmond right now. ever since there There used to be a really great like local venue called the warehouse, but last year it got shut down.
Ethan: And since then I just haven't been going out as many shows since they're just happening at normal venues now. Not that I have a problem with normal venues. I just get tickets a lot easier for the warehouse anywhere else.
matt: Right, right.
matt: and I got you. I got you. Yeah, my, ah a friend of mine, ah he moved to Atlanta from Richmond, and then he moved back to Richmond a couple of years ago. His name's Dane. He's in this band from here, or kind of from here, called Identity Shock, and he's got, like, a thousand one other projects. Also a great guitar dude.
matt: a Loud and fast repair is his Instagram, but, like, you know, he promotes and like book shows all the time. And it seems like the scene in Richmond still is very strong.
Ethan: Yeah.
matt: Just kind of, yeah. And like, it might've changed a little bit, but like, it's still there.
Ethan: Uh,
Ethan: yeah, there's still absolutely booking shows. I'm still getting the notifications for them. Like there's a, there's a great Instagram Richmond hardcore shows that will post just like everything that's happening in the city. And there's still a lot of great stuff coming in.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Ethan: And it's, I mean, that's how I found out UB was coming back. I kind of wrote that off, uh, forever during the pandemic. i was like, oh, well, you know, we lost another, another great like festival.
matt: Wait, is this the first one since 2020?
Ethan: No, they brought it back. ah It was either last year or a year ago. They brought UB back and and everyone was like, there's no way.
matt: Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
Ethan: think I think, I don't know the exact timeline, but it it was gone for a little bit and I was just like, yeah, that's that's fine. like
matt: Right.
Ethan: It's just one of those things that happens. you
matt: Yeah, I mean, the lineup this year is ridiculous.
Ethan: The interesting occasion. I know. That's really where I'm trying to go. fact that The fact that Foundation is playing is really what everybody is most interested.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they've... ah Yeah, I talked to Champ a few weeks ago, the drummer, and, like, you know, they they don't have a whole lot on the horizon outside of that and a couple of, like, European shows this year.
matt: I'm excited that people still, you know, still love that band. Like, they're they're kind of like a foundational band for a lot of people ah generation after me.
Ethan: Pun intended.
Ethan: A foundational band.
matt: A foundational band, yes, yes.
matt: this
Conor Fowler: funny
matt: This is random, and if you don't if you don't get the reference, maybe, maybe ah I don't know, maybe it's just like a difference in generation, but how much avail merch do you still see on a weekly basis?
Ethan: None. Like, i people like
matt: None! God damn it.
Ethan: I've been to the Avail over the James shows the last two years. And like people show up hard for those.
matt: Right. Right.
Ethan: And everyone, like its it feels like they just come out of the woodworks. Because like Richmond's not an Avail city. like like Sure, like well we'll claim them. They're from Richmond. But when people think, if you ask anyone in Richmond, like name Richmond hardcore band, they're going go, oh, yeah, down to nothing.
Ethan: They're not going to say Avail.
matt: ah Yeah.
Ethan: They're going to go, oh, yeah, down to nothing over the James.
Conor Fowler: use to
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: Yeah, because that's that's Richmond hardcore.
matt: No, that's so funny to me. Because you're not the first person from Richmond that has like told me that. But I don't know. It's just so funny because the Vale has such a like huge reach and influence, but their home city is not like all about them.
Ethan: I wouldn't, like,
Conor Fowler: I think that that's not super uncommon, right? I feel like
matt: Yeah, it's true. It's true.
Ethan: you know, we'll,
Conor Fowler: You know, you can't always be the hometown heroes, right?
Ethan: We'll support them. Like, sure, they've done a lot of really great things for hardcore, like, you know, their music, but their music sort of leans less hardcore than a lot of other Richmond hardcore bands do, which is why, like, they have such a big reach.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: So, know, and Richmond really, like, prides itself in the heavy shit. So, of course, they're gonna, you know, point to down to nothing first.
matt: It's true. It's true. Or Murder Weapon. I don't know if you...
Ethan: Oh, yeah.
matt: yeah that that That first fucking EP in the demo. Untouchable, in my opinion.
Ethan: I also think new some newer Richmond bands, Candy, I think is, ah everyone everyone likes them a lot.
matt: Oh, he can be sick.
Ethan: I think their sound is very raw and in a visceral, which is really the like my favorite kind of hardcore music. Stuff like Sanction, Heavy for the sake of Heavy is definitely what I most appreciate about it.
matt: Right, right.
matt: And it kind of always has been.
Ethan: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: Well, ah to to finish up a couple of last clothing questions.
Ethan: Sure.
matt: um So you mentioned that you kind of felt like you might be done after the the Ralph suit, ah but what are you now looking for? hey you're going to be quote unquote done after you find.
Ethan: Oh man, I'll be done once I have, i'm I've really sort of gone very deep into like polo collecting.
Ethan: Just over the last year, my closet has started like creeping more and more to like, I think it's like 70% polo now.
matt: Okay.
Ethan: I think I'm ready to just like, lean into the polo collecting side of things and just start seeking out like vintage, like rare polo menswear stuff.
Ethan: i'll I'll know I'm done when I can afford a snow beach jacket at resale.
matt: aha
Ethan: Like I want to get to the point where I can just like find someone selling their like $10,000 snow beach jacket and be like, yeah, it's it's time to get that because it's the only thing I'm missing.
matt: Right, right. Yeah.
Ethan: Um, I went to there's a, there's a really great, uh, store in Richmond, Dames RVA. Um, they've really, they started as like a buy, sell trade and they still do that, but they're really leaning more towards the like preppy polo. Cause that's, that's sort of like what the direction everything's going preppy is like finally like hitting the mainstream trend.
Ethan: Um, And just seeing their like polo mannequins that they're setting up that, that from the stuff that he's collecting, it really motivates me to just try and seek out as many like interesting artifacts as possible.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Ethan: And there's so many people that do that online already that it's, it's very intimidating to like, look at people like, like RL Grails or Thoroughbred New York, or these that have these like encyclopedic knowledge of the brand and can tell you like,
Ethan: when like the pant rise changed, like what month the pant rise changed and what factory did it?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right. Right. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: RL Grails is really another character. I mean, like encyclopedic doesn't begin to describe it. It's like he has like he has like a something.
Ethan: Not even.
Conor Fowler: He's like touched by Ralph.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: It's not like... The way that he can look at a polo coat and tell you how much it should sell for, like where it was made and when, like just by like how rough the camel hair is or like how curved the lapel is, it's it's like savant level.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Ethan: but And that's I'm not trying to like aspire to that level of knowingness, but i I'm trying to be a better
Conor Fowler: yeah it's definitely
Ethan: a steward of the brand. That sounds so dumb to say. I want to be able to talk about things I like more than just being like pointing out the little detail, but like this one's a three roll two because the button starts here.
Ethan: Like I want to be able to talk more about like the production because there's just not good history on that that's well documented outside like of ah bloggers and and people who are passionate.
matt: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: Like I there's I And I think this is something that more and more brands finding that like people are more interested in their archival stuff and they haven't done a good job like recording that history.
Ethan: So like L.L. Bean has this insane archive that that like they keep like things from like the founding of the company back to and they keep like detailed records of like when production changed.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: And that's so impressive to me because like most companies be like, who cares? Like, just, just move to the factory. Like, what do you think like in 20 years, there'd be bunch of nerds online being like, well, the ones that were made in Costa Rica have a slightly higher rise than the USA ones.
matt: Right.
Ethan: Uh, we want to make sure you don't get the stuff from the Indonesian factory. It's just like that no one could have thought that we were going be talking about this stuff like this.
matt: No, no, And Polo... historically has not cared about their archive. It's only been in the past 15 years or something that they like actually wanted to do that.
Ethan: Yeah, now they realize they can sell their used stuff for 10 times markup. They're like, well, we got to do something.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: Well, that's because they don't give a shit. All the stuff that's hanging in Double RL for four times the price that you can find on eBay for basically the same thing, they don't care.
Ethan: God, that's fair.
matt: It's the core. it's decor
Ethan: Yeah, they're like, someone may buy this Wrangler shirt for $400. If they don't, it's OK, because we got it for $20 or whatever.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, no. they They pay retail for the... from Okay, so I'll preface it with saying this is how I understand that business model.
matt: They pay someone like me that finds this thing, they pay what I want, and then they mark it up however many times, and they don't give a shit.
matt: If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, it looks cool hanging in their store.
Ethan: That's fair. um
matt: Yeah, which i'm I'm completely fine with. Like, ah you know, Doug Billmeyer has been in the game for, you know, basically my entire life.
matt: Like, that's what he does. So it's cool.
Ethan: Yeah, and like and the the stuff they curate, it's like even if it's not your cup of tea or you can't afford to make those things, it's great inspiration. like
matt: Totally, totally.
Ethan: And as long as the the sellers like you guys are getting paid, then like, I don't care if it sits the polo rack for, for like the rest of the time.
matt: Yeah, yeah. And then some celebrity comes in and is like, oh, I want this thing that's $10,000 and they buy it and they enjoy it. So whatever, whatever.
Ethan: Yeah. I, I, uh, I was up in Pittsburgh last summer and we went into this vintage shop that's supposed to have like the best, uh, double RL collection at Pittsburgh.
Ethan: And they were like, yo, you just missed Zoe Kravitz. I was like,
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: hell yeah. That's awesome.
Conor Fowler: That's funny.
Ethan: They're filming some movie and like she and her stylist bought like every woman's double ah RL piece for something. So let's be on the lookout that.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
matt: Right, right. Yeah, I used to sell at the National Flea and they had the grand opening for the, like, the RRL store. I guess this was 2019 and stuff like that.
matt: And they had a i think, $10,000, like, ah beaded native Grove. And Sheryl Crow came in and bought it their first day open for 10 grand.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Ethan: That's insane.
matt: Yeah, yeah, just shit like that.
Conor Fowler: what
Ethan: That sounds beautiful too.
matt: Like, I will always stand, you know, Polo and the affiliated brands because, like, it it comes from a passion, even if it's, like, kind of seems ridiculous.
Ethan: Right. i I've always, like, that's sort of, i've sort of gravitated towards Polo over the last year or so because, like, thing they so rarely miss that even when the things that they're making are, like, imitations or or reinterpretations of things, that you, like, you can generally understand that, like, what you're getting is always going to be a good product.
matt: Yeah.
Ethan: Less so now like that there's like Macy's sublines and things like that that make it harder to determine. like like It's not even Lauren Ralph Lauren. There's like good polo now and bad polo now. and
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: And they're like they're trying to fix that. like I don't know if you've seen, but just about every Macy's in the country has lost their polo section.
matt: Oh, shit. no I haven't been doing
Conor Fowler: Well, just about every Macy's in the country is closing.
matt: Yeah, I was gonna say, i haven't been to Macy's in like well over 10 years. So, yeah.
Ethan: And why would you?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: because they, you know, like, I think Polo is now seeing that they have ah an issue where people are now, like, saying, i don't want to buy that because, like, you see the stuff they have at Macy's and the qualities, so, like, pfft.
matt: Right, right.
Ethan: like And they're trying to like refocus, which is, which is good for the future. means there's like three or four years of weird eBay listings, but that's lot of people like us to like help you identify what, what's worth and what's not like, cause I got bit by that.
matt: Yeah, totally, totally.
Ethan: Like so many times, like starting out.
matt: Oh, haven't we all?
Ethan: And all right, well, yeah, there's two ways you can go about this. You just accept that you youve messed up and like live with it or go like dive as deep in as you can and learn every little minuscule thing to understand like what what like the pocket details are that like are on the good pants or like what badge on the back of the chinos has like the best fabrics. and
matt: Right, right. Yeah, a friend of mine years ago told me a euphemism that he had growing up for chaps, which was could have had a polo shirt. And it's made me laugh so many times over the past 15, 16 years.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Ethan: I'm going to remember that. That one's great. Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah. And i'm not I'm not saying that old chaps isn't solid. like There's some really cool shit. But it was diffusion. It was early diffusion.
Ethan: yeah and
matt: so
Ethan: I've read that like early Chaps and Polo University stuff like pissed Ralph off because it was so...
matt: Oh, really?
Ethan: Yeah, he was like, this is too close to what we're selling. like You guys are supposed to make it worse. But like the I know early Chaps and early Polo University was like made by Southwick, and they were just like taking Ralph garments and being like, all right, just make that.
matt: Right. Yeah.
Ethan: like
matt: Right. Right.
Ethan: Well, it needs to look slightly different. They're like all right, put a dart on it. like That's it. And... Like it was so good that he made them make it worse so that like it was easier for him to sell his stuff.
matt: That's not surprising.
Conor Fowler: wow
matt: Yeah. Yeah. my My favorite hat is a polo, like probably circa mid 90s camp cap. And I've literally never seen another one. I gave it to a friend a couple weeks ago to like start patching it up. But.
matt: but
Ethan: I am trying to picture any polo camp cap I've ever seen. And outside of box logo camp caps, they really don't show up anywhere at all.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I've got another one that's like public sport. I think it's 96. It's got like cement print on the sides, but this one is like olive drab.
matt: It just has what looks like a military designation on the front and it's a five panel. Never seen another one.
Ethan: That is sick.
matt: I've asked so many people and so many times on like my Instagram, like if anybody has this or has seen one for sale, let me know. I got it for 70 cents.
matt: So, yeah it yeah, it's my pride and joy, even though it's falling apart after nine years.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Ethan: Wow.
Ethan: Well, I guess that answers your question about what I'm going what's the next thing I'm goingnna look for.
matt: Nice. I'll shoot you a photo. And if you find one, like, I mean, i may not pay $500 for it, but I will pay a significant amount of money to find one of these as a backup.
Ethan: I have some sort of parasite in my brain. Anytime I hear about another polo thing i don't have or haven't heard of, my brain goes, you're not a real polo collector until you have that now or until you have the polo sport collector.
matt: Dude, there's so many. There's so many that like...
matt: I mean, everybody knows Snow Beach, everybody knows Stadium, everyone knows the Riviera Collection. Who has ever seen another hat like a hat?
Ethan: I didn't even know that was a thing. I think that's the stuff that's more interesting too.
matt: Oh, totally, totally.
Ethan: Like the sub-label or like the sub-collections that really didn't see a lot of like like popularity. So the stuff just like faints to obscurity until it shows up and you're like, what is the Ralph Lauren maritime supply collection?
matt: Yeah.
matt: Right, right, exactly, exactly. And that, in my opinion, is what makes polos so sick.
Ethan: Right. I totally agree.
matt: Yeah, yeah, it's the weird shit, the odd shit. Anyway, dude, Ethan, this has been great.
Conor Fowler: For sure. Yeah.
matt: We got one last question for you, which is, what are you wearing in the apocalypse?
Ethan: Shoot.
Ethan: What am I wearing in the apocalypse? Oh man, layers for sure. going to be wearing on top. I'm going to be wearing fly fishing jacket because i travel in fly fishing jackets everywhere I go. If I'm, if I'm going on a train or a plane, or if I'm driving more than three hours, I got to have all those pockets for my fly fishing jacket, you know passport, food, snacks, chargers, it all fits in everywhere I needed to go.
Ethan: And that's fantastic pants pants. I'm probably wearing polo Andrews because I have so many of them that I guarantee at least one of them will survive through the apocalypse.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Ethan: Um, you know, they've lasted as long as I've been alive. So they'll probably last a little bit longer. Um, and as far as shoes go, going to go ahead and say, uh, probably just a pair of like random Nike air sneakers.
Ethan: Um, I would like to say Nike Air Max's, but as soon as that bubble pops, there's the back.
matt: Oh yeah, they're fucked.
Ethan: Um, everyone in, everyone in the Weijons is very like New Balance coded or everyone seems to really be a fan of New Balance sneakers when it comes to like mixing with tailoring. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Conor Fowler: I don't fuck with New Balance.
Ethan: Um, but all of my sneakers are still Nike Airs like Spiritons or Pegasus or, uh, you Air Maxes. I, I will always kind of have some sneaker head blood in me, uh,
matt: Yeah, as we all do.
Ethan: No matter how far away I get from it. So I try and make my sneakers all and I've i've walked around New York in loafers before and I had a bad enough experience that I definitely wouldn't want to wear loafers in the apocalypse.
matt: Yeah, yeah think I think Connor is the team opposite that for the apocalypse.
Ethan: I would certainly like to be able to wear loafers in the apocalypse.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Ethan: And I like i have nice loafers. like I'm wearing a pair of Alton shell tassel loafers right now. They look great. they they like you know my foot is in there. The cork is like around my foot.
Ethan: good god i cannot wait to take these shoes off when i get home because they just dig into me and but they feel like they fit it's not even like they're tight i didn't get the i didn't get the wrong width or anything they're just they're just hurt at the end of day and i'm okay suffering for like couple hours you know i'm walking around the city i'll probably wear something
matt: Right.
Ethan: you know, with some i'm like foam sole or something. Definitely not like, you know, dress sneakers with that ugly.
matt: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for clarifying. it
Ethan: But yeah, i'll I'll lean like sportswear sneaker before I do anything else.
matt: Good call. Good call.
Ethan: And then for a hat, ah probably go back to fishing and say, I get a fisherman's bucket hat that can like hook stuff on around the around the top just so I can have more cargo space.
matt: Yes, there you go.
Ethan: That feels important.
matt: It does feel important. when you When you don't know what's going on and you've got to have shit, you need cargo space.
Ethan: Yeah, i've ah my wife I have been playing a lot of Fallout recently.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. this
Ethan: So that's that's certainly something that we've been thinking a lot about is what you bring with you.
matt: yeah Nice. Nice. Well, dude, this has been fun as shit. One more time, thank you. And tell people where they can find you.
Ethan: Yeah, thank you guys. You can find me on Instagram. My handle is thunderedhome. And you can also find me on Parallels with the same handle. But thank you guys so much. I really appreciate the time. It's been awesome.
matt: Dude, hell yeah. Hell yeah. you're you're You're a part of the new generation that's like keeping this shit alive. It's great.
Conor Fowler: right
Ethan: I'm happy to be part of it. it's It's so much fun just getting to talk to people about this shit and finding out there's other people who are just obsessed with this stuff.
matt: Dude, it is. like we didn't We didn't talk about this, but like it's so rare to like find like kind of spiritual kinfolk for clothing particularly and like, you know,
matt: we don't always love talking about clothing, but it's, it's a passion. So.
Ethan: Right. You know, like there's only so many people in your life that like are going to compliment something you're wearing and then be okay with like 30 minute speech you're going give on the thing they complimented before they're like, I actually can't compliment you ever again because that's not what this, I wanted you to, I wanted you to know you had nice pants.
matt: Right. Right. Yeah.
Ethan: I didn't need to know like where they were from or how high their pants was.
matt: yeah Yeah. Yeah. I've been calling it, ah to quote my friend that I'm dog-sending for right now, a touch of the tism, it's great. like
Ethan: It's definitely a little bit of that.
matt: When that happens, you know it's it's rad to like connect with someone that actually gives a shit.
Ethan: Yeah.
Ethan: Yeah, I totally agree. it it lets you know that there's other people out there like you. They're just as crazy as we are.
matt: Yeah, yeah. we're We're just nerds, man. Nothing wrong with being a nerd.
Ethan: Exactly.
matt: bre Whether it's records or clothing. It doesn't matter. doesn't matter
Ethan: Exactly.
matt: Well, yeah.
Ethan: um like
Ethan: Sick. Well, thank you guys so much.
matt: Yeah, it's been ah been a blast. Everyone, thank you for listening. i am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Flower.
matt: We are at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram, apocalypsestuds at gmail.com. If you like what you hear, Subscribe, rate us, leave a review. i read the Apple reviews recently, and they were very like charming, even though there's only like seven of them.
matt: But yeah, if you've ah you know you get something out of the show, holler at us in some way, shape, or form.
matt: Anyway, we will see you next Wednesday.
Conor Fowler: Bye-bye.
