Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello everyone and welcome to Apocalypse Duds. I'm your co-host Connor Fowler.
matt: And I am the other co-host, Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: It seems like it's been a while since we have done this, even though it's only been like not that long. It's maybe a month, ah but two weeks, two weeks.
matt: Two weeks, two weeks.
Conor Fowler: ah So Today in studio, we have Jabari Sandefur, a writer, stylist, good dresser, founder of Sunny's Trading Post and the sub stack, Wear Your Pants Break, which ah the way that it breaks on the line, it just says, wear your pants, which I thought was funny, but that's not not what it is.
matt: ha
Conor Fowler: So welcome. Thank you for being here.
matt: Yeah. Well, where your pants break is a really great, like a title for, for anything related to like menswear. One of the best I've seen, I think.
Conor Fowler: Cause there's some bad shit out there. Definitely.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah. Wait, wait, just to just out of curiosity, where are you on the pants break spectrum?
Conor Fowler: question.
Jabari Sandifer: You know, honestly, it just depends on what I'm wearing. Like sometimes 90% of the time I need like a little bit of a break. Uh, but there are occasions where like I can show some sock or some skin, you know i mean?
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally.
Jabari Sandifer: Mainly.
matt: Are you a tall dude?
Jabari Sandifer: I'm sorry. What?
matt: Are you a tall dude? Like, like.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, I wouldn't say i'm super tall. I'm like six one, but like.
matt: Okay, yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's fucking tall. I object to that categorization.
matt: Well, yeah, for for both for both of us, that is definitely tall. I'm Connor, you're Yeah, yeah, yeah. seven
Conor Fowler: Seven, approximately.
matt: yeah yeah
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: Sure.
Conor Fowler: Six one is tall by anyone's stretch of the imagination.
Jabari Sandifer: I grew up.
Conor Fowler: I think five, 10 people say that they are not tall. And in fact, they are average. But at six one, you are tall, I think provably.
Jabari Sandifer: That's fair. I grew up, I grew up playing basketball. So, and I played it in college.
Conor Fowler: So relatively tall.
Jabari Sandifer: So I used I was walking around with six, eight guys, seven footers.
matt: Oh, shit. Damn.
Jabari Sandifer: So I felt, always felt small.
matt: Right, right. Were you a point guard?
Jabari Sandifer: I was. Yeah.
matt: Okay, nice, nice. Yeah, i feel like 6'1 is kind of for the the perfect, unless you're John Stockton, Spud Webb, who was like, you know, 5'9 or something.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. Exactly. No, no. All right.
matt: ah Yeah, sorry. Talking about sports. Connor hates sports.
Conor Fowler: Oh my God, no, they're fine.
Jabari Sandifer: no no
Conor Fowler: They're fine.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: They just exclude short people. Where are we with this? This is a clothing show.
matt: Right, right. Anyway.
Conor Fowler: we're gonna We have questions about sports later in the in the show anyway, so it's fine.
matt: It's true. It's true. ah Yeah. Jabari, welcome. Thanks for coming on. um So just to just to kick things off, where are you from and where are you now?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, so grew up in a town called Bowling Brook outside of Chicago, 50 minutes outside of the city with no traffic.
matt: OK.
Jabari Sandifer: um
matt: wi Which direction?
Jabari Sandifer: and have ah Southwest.
matt: Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, and I've lived in the city proper for the past like eight years.
matt: Nice.
Jabari Sandifer: So yeah, I've been around Illinois, Chicago most of life, or all my life, honestly.
matt: Yeah, it's been a very long time since I've been to Chicago, but like it was always one of my favorite cities when I was there. I actually thought about moving there a long time ago, and it just never happened.
Jabari Sandifer: That's fair. It's the best. I love it. I love it out here.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Great. ah Great people like and it's I don't know the vibe of Chicago was always and I mean, honestly, like from what I've heard from my friends in the in the menswear industry, like the best clothing show is now the Chicago Collective.
matt: So
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've had a lot of people come out here the past couple of years, so it's been pretty cool.
matt: yeah, yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: There's been some act stuff. Oh, it's nice.
matt: Definitely. Also incredible pierogi. ah
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. We got it all, all the food.
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally. um And so, yeah, you you said you've been there eight years now?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. Living in the city. I moved right, moved here right after college, moved downtown. So been here ever since.
matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: So could you tell us about Sunny's trading post? I guess that's like a major thing that you're up to at the moment.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure. Um, so There are a lot of great vintage like menswear dealers in Chicago that I know personally that I shop with that I've heard of um mainly that I shop with because I do a lot of vintage shopping, but um I wanted and I know those other people that were looking to shop from these from these stores as well, but a lot of them are appointment only.
Jabari Sandifer: um you know Or they just don't know about them in general. right So I kind of wanted to bring them all together into one space and you know allow people to shop from all of them at once.
Jabari Sandifer: um
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah So it was like it was a bit of that, maybe a bit selfish of myself to want want to be able to shop from all them my onces of at myself.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jabari Sandifer: but
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: And also to say a community building thing, you know, we don't have as many events like they do in New York. Um, so I, it was a cool way to bring people who care about the same stuff as me together as well.
Jabari Sandifer: Um,
matt: Oh, that's awesome. So it's, it I know nothing about this. I'm sorry. I should have should have researched, but like it's a market that you put on.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah, yeah. It's a market.
matt: Okay, dope, dope.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Yeah, and how long have you been doing it?
Jabari Sandifer: So started just last year.
matt: Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: I'm going on my third one this weekend, actually. um And yeah we've had two we yeah, we've had two so far. our Second one, the first one was okay. I'm just kind of putting feelers out there. But second one was pretty crazy.
Jabari Sandifer: you got a ton of people come by. um
matt: Oh, hell yeah, that's awesome.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, I probably, i marketed it a bit more though. um
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: And the second one, I think it's going to, or this third one is going to be even bigger, I think. So yeah, it's, I think it's picking up.
Conor Fowler: That's your actor you want, right?
matt: Yeah, totally, totally. I've been, I sell vintage for a living and like do markets and also book and promote markets for the past nine years. And so like, yeah, yeah. Like building that community and that kind of like collective mentality is such an important thing to do.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Sorry, my bunny was on the ramp. But absolutely.
Conor Fowler: Did you say bunny?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, have a bunny.
matt: Oh my God.
Conor Fowler: You have a bunny.
matt: Wait.
Conor Fowler: I thought you said puppy. And then I was like, where is the dog?
Jabari Sandifer: No.
matt: eight Wait, wait, wait.
Conor Fowler: So it's a bunny.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: Can we see said bunny?
Jabari Sandifer: She won't let me pick her up.
matt: Ah, okay. But she is a house bunny.
Jabari Sandifer: more She is a housewife.
matt: Oh, my God.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And what is her name?
matt: That's... that's
Jabari Sandifer: Her name is Olive.
matt: Olive.
Conor Fowler: That is a great bunny name.
matt: That's a great bunny name, for sure. Yeah, yeah. that is what One more bunny question.
Jabari Sandifer: Yes.
Conor Fowler: So go on.
matt: is she So she's litter box trained, I'm assuming.
Jabari Sandifer: Yep, she is. Yeah. So she's a...
matt: that's That's fucking awesome. have two cats and like I've always dreamt about having a house bunny.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, she's like, he's ah she's going through a little phase right now.
Conor Fowler: house bunny
Jabari Sandifer: She's being a little bit destructive, but ah she's she's good overall. She's she's free roam, so she just hangs out throughout the house. That's pretty good.
matt: Oh, that's fucking awesome, man. Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: wow dude i never even knew well so back then to the name question who is sunny okay
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. That was my grandpa. so that was his nickname. um That's what everybody called him, so i just... little homage to him. You know, he was someone that kind of influenced ah a lot of how I dress today. So, you know, I think it was just a cool homage to to him.
Conor Fowler: What do what kind of stuff was he wearing? I mean.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. Like always wearing a pair of loafers, trousers, like an old Hawaiian shirt, a Kangol, like, yeah.
matt: Oh, the Kangol.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: Like he never, he always had a Kangol on. That's like, that was his thing.
matt: Dude, that's so sick.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. And grand I don't really wear a Kangol, but just like, i don't know, just someone that from Chicago, like, he's from Mississippi originally, but like lived in Chicago, just like, just a really stylish dude. You know what I mean? And, uh, always was always dressed well, you know what i mean? I never saw him dressed down. So that that's like something that I kind of took with me too.
matt: Oh, that's really cool. Was was he a blues guy? I know that's kind of like a cliche because Chicago, like, you know, Southern dudes move into Chicago to play blues, but like the great, yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: Well, the great migration, right?
Jabari Sandifer: yeah
matt: and And like also one of my favorite, you know, types of music. So.
Jabari Sandifer: absolutely um i wouldn't i wouldn't say it necessarily a blues guy i mean maybe i'm sure he liked it um but he liked a lot of like marvin gay and like um very white that kind of vibe yeah absolutely yeah that's
matt: Okay. Dope. Dope. Yeah. Related stuff. Yeah, that's real cool.
Conor Fowler: So you said that most of the men in your family work construction are on the railroad.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: um Could you tell us a little about that and how it's affected your style?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure. um Like starting with my pops, he he worked for ComEd, what is the electric company here in Chicago for his entire career, 30 years. And, you know, he wore workwear to work every day, right? So he was wearing Carhartt, Dickies, you know, whatever it was, ah I think mainly Carhartt.
Jabari Sandifer: But my earliest memories are like not wanting him to go to work and leave, you know i'm saying? ah But he's wearing like, You know, that ah the hooded Carhartt, and he got me one when I was a kid.
Jabari Sandifer: um You know, my grandpa that I was just mentioning, Sonny, he worked on the railroad. um And like half of my mom's family worked for General Motors, General Motors locomotive here in Chicago.
matt: Oh, wow.
Conor Fowler: You came honest.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Um, so there's just a lot of, you know, like blue collar work for my family that, um, mainly from my dad that I got it from. Cause like I was around him the most, of course.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Um, but like, he does always wore it.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Like, you know what i mean? and it is something that kind of stuck with me and I love it. And I i've have a ton of little car myself that I just wear. Yeah.
matt: Oh, it's the best.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: came to it honest
matt: You did come to it honest.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Exactly. that no No stolen valor over here for the most part.
matt: ha And I'm sure like your grandpa, ah wait, how old are you?
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jabari Sandifer: I'm 30. I'll be 31 in the next month.
matt: Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah
matt: Okay. so your your grandpa was probably like wearing some of the like, you know, best mid-century workwear too, I would imagine if he's working on a railroad and like, you know, wearing denim or or whatever, like work jackets and shit.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. i didn't I didn't get any of it, unfortunately. But
matt: Man, that's that's such a sad tale. I didn't get any of my grandpa's shit either. So, yeah. It ah it bums me out that that you know all of us that like love this shit just...
Jabari Sandifer: Exactly. yeah
matt: I don't know. they Maybe we didn't know about it early enough or like it just got tossed out. of
Conor Fowler: It's the great, it is part of the great irony, right?
matt: Yeah, it is. yeah Which is part of the reason...
Conor Fowler: It's like, it would have just been too much if you had gotten it all, it would be like, God, you, you got the cheat codes.
matt: Well, it's part of the reason why i'm like, you know, vintage clothing is so cool to me because you can like, you know, if there happens to be stuff at a yard sale or an estate sale or whatever, like you can kind of, you know, I love putting a face to a name or like hearing stories like, oh, this is my, my daddy's jacket.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: He wore it every day to, to work at the factory. Like that shit is unprecedented.
Jabari Sandifer: I agree, that's like the coolest stuff.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: totally so So kind of what's what's the vibe of like Chicago style-wise? Both vintage and and you know just other people that you might see every day.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. um it's There's no like, the the difference between like, I'll compare it to New York, right? People New York walk and take the train everywhere.
Jabari Sandifer: um That's a little bit different here in Chicago. Like you can get away with driving everywhere, which i typically do.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: um So you're not always like seeing people in the street, you know,
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jabari Sandifer: Granted, I go down i go downtown, on Michigan Avenue, like there's a spot in Chicago called Licker Park where you'll see vintage, younger kids that, you know they look cool.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: And if you go near the art school out here too, you'll see some kids that look cool downtown.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: But like you know when you go to the places where people my age go, right like West Loop, somewhat River North, um it's pretty corporate. you know what i mean you don't see a ton I don't see a ton of people dressed like me, at least, I'll say.
Jabari Sandifer: um
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: We kind of have to create those environments. You know what I mean? Like like my homie Kale out here, goodform formerly Good Form Vintage, now Kale Dero USA.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: Oh, yeah, I know him.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, Cale's a good homie. He has open hours all the time. So people go over there, you know, they always look cool. um No Trey has some events, no Trey shop here in Chicago. So you really have to like go to these things to like see people, you know, or like throw in yourself like I'm trying to do um to see people on the street, like that look interesting to me.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: You know what i mean?
matt: Yeah, I feel it.
Jabari Sandifer: So, but yeah
Conor Fowler: That's the struggle, though. I mean, I feel like for basically anywhere that isn't New York, unfortunately, is like you got to really put in the footwork to get your like hobby homies, you know.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Absolutely. And like, you'll see around like other things besides clothes, like art, art shows or, you know what i mean?
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Stuff like that. Like music.
Conor Fowler: yeah, ye yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Oh, Chicago has always been such a good, you know, good music town. And, like, across different genres, like, rest in peace Steve Albini. um You know, like, it's it's such a cool it it's such a cool vibe and, like, has always kind of had that.
Jabari Sandifer: So um so i get I get my major dose of you know style inspiration when I go to New York, mainly.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jabari Sandifer: or just online, you know I mean?
matt: Yeah, right, right. Yeah, one of the the best vintage stores I've ever been to and like every time i I was ever in Chicago. I don't know if it's still open, but I think it was called the Land of the Lost.
matt: And I want to say it was in Wicker Park, but it was just like such an amalgam of like different, different kind of shit. But you could tell that it was very intentional.
Jabari Sandifer: Was it the guy, older dude with the dog?
matt: Fuck, this would have been like, I think the last time I went there was like 2009. But i that sounds familiar.
Jabari Sandifer: there was ah There was a shop there for a really long time. Older guy. He passed away a couple of years ago, but he had like a giant dog that kind of just sat by the door.
matt: yeah, I think that was it. And it was, was it kind of like, like down, like off the street a little bit?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, a little bit.
matt: Yeah, yeah, I think that I think you're absolutely correct.
Jabari Sandifer: He...
matt: And that's, that's the story it was.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, he had this.
Conor Fowler: I found it. I think it is closed. I mean, it would make sense, I guess, if he died.
matt: Uh, yeah. yeah
Conor Fowler: agree.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: Also Belmont Army Navy. Uh, I don't know if you ever went there, but like that was also a really cool shop to go into. Like it was kind of small the first time I went and then expanded to like four floors.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, they still have this. That's still and and on Milwaukee.
matt: Is it really?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: and that's, that's worker park also, right?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it is.
matt: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just remember like, you know, they had a bunch of surplus, but then like every floor was like a different decade or something.
Jabari Sandifer: It's definitely not that big now. It's only like two floors. It's mainly like certain, and they have some new stuff like Stussy and a couple other things.
matt: Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: so
matt: Got, yeah, there was, there was definitely like a street where bent to one of the floors back then.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure.
matt: Nice, nice. Well, uh, speaking of the Chicago collective show, have you, have you had any interaction with that or like been okay?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Can you tell us about it a little bit like your experience?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, absolutely. I went for the first time last February. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with No Chaser Magazine. um they They go to like Pity and, you know, they do some of the trade shows.
Jabari Sandifer: It's like a a publication based in Brooklyn. Yeah.
matt: Wow.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: And they invited me to like help them with some content last time. And yeah, I went to check out the show. It's massive. Pretty crazy. if If you're familiar with Merchandise Mart, it's just like, I think Merchandise Mart has its own zip code.
Jabari Sandifer: That's how big it
matt: Wow.
Conor Fowler: who you
matt: wow wow
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, like literally I think so. But it's like, it's huge, massive building. But anyways, it's like two or three floors. It's like three or maybe three three or four floors in there. So it's huge.
Jabari Sandifer: um But it was cool. Like I got to meet a bunch of brands, network with some people.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: And then last year there were a couple of events around it. Like Buck Mason did a couple of things these past couple of years. So it was cool. Like it was cool people were coming into the city for it.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Right, right. Yeah. Like ah most of the people that I know still in the industry, like go to that show because I guess the the New York shows are basically defunct at this point. Like that's what I kind of came up going to.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it was, that's what I've heard. You know, if people go to like Paris typically, and then there's like, it's like, I was just surprised at how it's very like business though.
Jabari Sandifer: It's like, not like, you know, you have bunch of buyers in stores, you know what i mean?
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Like they're down, they're there to like actually like buy stuff for their store. So,
Conor Fowler: you.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: a
matt: Right. We don't quite have the same like, like generational thing like pity does, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the street style icons that we all see and know, like, you know, their, their dad or their uncle was in the industry.
matt: and Like they've been going to pity for 40 fucking years, but like, we just don't have that same kind of mentality.
Jabari Sandifer: But yeah, it's a cool thing to like bring people to Chicago and like check out the scene. And you know i get to get see some people that I don't see all the time. So it's cool.
matt: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. How ah how long like have you kind of been in the, I guess, internet menswear scene, for lack of a better term?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: For sure. um I've always kind of like just been into clothes. I wasn't, not going to say i was like a style form guy or like anything like that.
Conor Fowler: you.
matt: riot Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: um But I was always like into the way people dress and how I dress. um I would say like in college, I started to like, you know, read more GQ and like, uh,
Jabari Sandifer: I was watching a lot of round two YouTube back then.
matt: ah Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: I was like really into opening a vintage store at some point. um So I would say like, that's where I started transitioning out of like, you know, mall brands into like actual menswear.
Jabari Sandifer: You know what i mean?
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: I'm getting interested in that and vintage and stuff like that. So that's like 10 years ago. um But I didn't start like posting on the internet until,
Jabari Sandifer: twenty twenty 2024, maybe to a little, maybe 2023. Um, I started posting on Tik TOK and stuff. So like, I kind of got met people that way, but years before that I was from afar, I was just a fan.
Jabari Sandifer: You know what i mean?
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I think that's where Dimal found you on TikTok.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. yeah That's where I started off posting on Tik TOK a lot. Uh, then transitioned to Instagram a couple of years ago.
matt: What kind of stuff did you grow up wearing?
Jabari Sandifer: I was a big Karma Loop guy, you know, like wearing like 10 deep and Wesk and like, um what else?
Conor Fowler: um
Jabari Sandifer: I mean, Stussy, of course. um I love Supreme, never really had any when I was younger. um i was wearing Vans and i like, so you know, i like skate culture, but I also played basketball. i So i was big into sneakers.
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: like sneakers is probably like my four way, my foray into style. Um, you know, time yeah.
matt: I think that's that's true for a lot of us.
Jabari Sandifer: Cause it was like a huge thing growing up like dunks and, you know, Jordans, uh,
Conor Fowler: In Chicago, of course.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Naturally. um So yeah, that kind of got me into it, but yeah, that's what i was wearing when I was younger. Like then I got it. I remember getting my first pair of five ah ones I know, in middle school, maybe think I had some shrink to fits shrink to fits were cool back then too.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Also. So yeah, hundred percent.
matt: Yeah, they they fit so much better. And like the quality control, like they weren't USA made anymore, but like, or for the most, yeah, I guess they wouldn't be at that point.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: But like, you could buy the same size every time instead of having to try on like 29 through a 32 to see which one actually fits.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. um But yeah, I was super into like graphic tees and you know stuff like that. And skate culture and hip hop.
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: So all these were kind of my you know what i what I dressed like.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, YG raps about 501s. I feel like 501s are like ah
Conor Fowler: universal.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, Ubiquitous, 100%. Yeah.
matt: Yeah. I mean, Jordan Brand did a 501 collab. I think it was like 2007 2008.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, wow, really, I had no idea.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I remember, like, I was in Philadelphia playing a show. I think, I guess it was 2008. But, like, ah there was a shop on South Street that had, like, a drop on a Saturday.
matt: And they were, yet Yeah, they're pretty bizarre.
Conor Fowler: Whoa, these are pretty weird.
matt: And I can't remember what sneaker went with them. I think it, I want to say it was a Jordan 3 of some sort. But yeah, like that's, you know, that was ubiquitous for like skaters and also like hip hop heads and punk rock dudes.
Jabari Sandifer: 100%. It's awesome. And also, i forgot one thing. like I used to wear a lot of Dickies, too, back in the day. like
matt: Oh man. Yeah. Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah when I love those.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: at of time
matt: Still, i think we talked about it on the the last interview that we did, but like the new ones just feel so bad compared to like even a decade ago.
Jabari Sandifer: I haven't bought a pair in a long time. like I still have a couple. i have like one pair from like back in the day. But yeah, I agree.
matt: Yeah, yeah. it ah
Conor Fowler: Unless you like wear them a ton, which is hard to do because they're made of plastic.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
matt: I mean, more the canvas ones, but like traditional Dickies. Yeah, like the fit just doesn't feel right. These days.
Conor Fowler: So I guess the other the other main Chicago thing is the food, ah which Chicago is like proudly
Conor Fowler: distinct, I guess, in many different ways. There's pizza, there's hot dogs ah and other things. So we're wondering what first where where are you with the hot dog situation? Do you even eat hot dogs?
Jabari Sandifer: Uh, growing up, I did a lot, but not as much anymore. I'll have one if I go to like a baseball game, like if I go to rig.
Conor Fowler: So you're so you're like, what do they say?
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: A social hot dogger?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, I'm definitely a social. A
matt: Yeah, our friend Robbie is going to have a conniption fit when he hears this because he hates hot dogs.
Conor Fowler: They're so they're so good. I mean, even the vegan dogs are delicious.
matt: ah vegan A good vegan dog is hard to beat.
Jabari Sandifer: hundred percent. And like, yeah, like,
Conor Fowler: It's a ketchup vehicle. It's a mustard vehicle.
Jabari Sandifer: It is. it really is. i yeah, you won't catch me eating one too often. Like it's probably once a year. um
matt: right Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: but there's some other like Chicago staples, like an Italian beef. Like I love that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Like that's my thing. You know, I'll have that a couple of times.
Conor Fowler: So that you, ah you indulge yourself.
Jabari Sandifer: hundred percent. Yeah. well
matt: What, wait, what is,
Conor Fowler: But so it's a Chicago hot dog, not worth indulging.
Jabari Sandifer: I'm not going to say it's not worth indulging for one.
Conor Fowler: Cause
Jabari Sandifer: You have to go to the right place, but two, uh,
Conor Fowler: where's the right place. Do you have a place in mind? I mean,
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, like Gene and Jude's, that's like the that's the Chicago staple spot. I think it's a little bit outside the city, though.
Conor Fowler: what's the one where they're really mean to you?
Jabari Sandifer: It could be Gene and Jude's.
Conor Fowler: I don't know.
Jabari Sandifer: I don't
Conor Fowler: I remember people going there and like just to scream at the people working and the people working would scream also.
Jabari Sandifer: There's a place called Ed DeBevick's where that they do that. um that's like their' That's like their shtick, you know what I mean?
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: They'll call you names and stuff. But that could be Red Hot Ranch, too. Red Hot Ranch is solid, also. There's couple those.
Conor Fowler: I'm looking this up here.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, you know what? I actually know what you're thinking.
Conor Fowler: The wiener circle.
Jabari Sandifer: Winner Circle. That's what it is. Winner Circle. Yeah, that's in Lincoln Park, for sure. Or in Lakeview.
Conor Fowler: And I have never been there.
Jabari Sandifer: that's
Conor Fowler: See, I have had, I have had a great many hot dogs. Like I was in a hot dog eating contest.
Jabari Sandifer: Where?
Conor Fowler: I only ate two hot dogs.
matt: Oh.
Conor Fowler: The guy next to me started throwing up after his like second hot dog.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, wow.
Conor Fowler: So I was like, this is not good. He was like really beefy, like a bodybuilder type character.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's like, dude, you can't just decide to eat like garbage.
Jabari Sandifer: Right.
Conor Fowler: Clearly you take care of yourself. You're not allowed to do this. So this guy had like a legalize it t-shirt on and he fucking won. You can't have condiments, which is you can't have a hot dog without condiments.
Jabari Sandifer: Right. Yeah,
Conor Fowler: That's there's no point to that.
Jabari Sandifer: that's brutal, honestly.
matt: Yeah, I know certain like certain types of hot dogs, like ketchup is frowned upon, but...
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, Unchicongo Dogs, Ketchup's Roundup.
matt: Yeah, that that's what I've... I've never had a hot dog in Chicago. But, you know, like if I'm eating... i don't even remember the last time I had a vegan dog, but... like Yeah, like it's gotta have ketchup on there.
Conor Fowler: A tofu pup.
Conor Fowler: I like a Mexican hot dog, like a like a cream cheese, ah some kind of Mexican hot sauce, whatever you choose, Cholula, Valentina.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay. Never had one of those.
Conor Fowler: I think they call the Sinaloa dog. They wrap them in bacon. I would not get it wrapped in bacon if you're putting cream cheese on it. But, you know, this is another, see as you can tell, to me, it's a very dear ah product, even though it's like disgusting, right?
Jabari Sandifer: A
Jabari Sandifer: lot. No.
Conor Fowler: I mean, it's it's goodness is that it's disgusting. That's where some of its goodness comes from.
Jabari Sandifer: Honestly, that is some of the appeal, you know?
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, food doesn't always have to be amazing, like, high-quality, you know, expensive, like, homemade shit.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Like, sometimes you just want comfort food.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Completely agree.
matt: Yeah. ah On the back of that question, can you tell us what the Italian beef sandwich is? Because I don't think I know it.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it's like and Italian beef is like, it's kind of like shaved beef, I guess.
matt: Okay. Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: a And you like, you put like a jus on it and hot peppers or sweet.
matt: Oh, okay. Okay. Now I'm not a food person, but I love watching food videos for whatever reason, vegan or not. I don't care, but yeah, I've seen, I've seen this on like Instagram.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay.
Conor Fowler: It sounds great.
Jabari Sandifer: Are you familiar with ah the bear, the show?
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: o
matt: Vaguely.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay. the The premise of the show is literally a shop, like a 10 minute walk from my house, less than that. So it's called Mr.
matt: Oh shit.
Jabari Sandifer: It's called Mr. Beef. And like that's where the show is like shot. Like I see them filming it all the time, honestly. So it's pretty cool.
matt: Oh, wow. That's awesome. I really like that's Maddie Madison, Matt Matheson show, right?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, he's in there. He's in there. Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think that dude is cool as shit. He's got, you know, awesome taste and in vintage clothing. And like, is he's in a really good hardcore band, but I've never seen the show.
matt: I just know about it tangentially.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay. Yeah, for sure. That's a cool one.
Conor Fowler: Too much yelling, too much yelling. That was my review of the show.
Jabari Sandifer: It is a very not peaceful show. i will say that.
matt: Right, right, yeah. I also, i've i worked at a smoothie shop and a movie theater, but that's the closest I ever got to like service industry.
Jabari Sandifer: right.
Conor Fowler: God. Can you imagine the cutthroat smoothie shop? Like,
matt: No, we we were also like, you know, like the vegan or the shop that I worked for, like was, was juice based, which I think is the best smoothie.
Conor Fowler: god
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: And it was like kind of hippie ish at the time and like had a lot of vegan stuff. And i was vegetarian at the time, but like, I don't think I've ever been healthier than when I worked at the smoothie shop.
Jabari Sandifer: That's valid. I believe it.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, you know, I don't know what being in the kitchen or like being on waitstaff entails. Thankfully.
Jabari Sandifer: No, absolutely. it's It seems pretty... One of my good friends, older brother, he's a chef, and he said it's very on point with what actually
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: That's what I have heard from like everyone practically.
matt: Yeah, totally. and like that's That's kind of the selling point of the show, right? is like like Dude's a you know dudes as chef in real life. and like It's supposed to mimic what it's actually like.
Jabari Sandifer: For sure.
Conor Fowler: And he's a GQ like darling, right?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: He's like the most envied t-shirt
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: type character, which it is a good fitting t-shirt for sure.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, i don't i don't know that I can endorse a hundreds of dollars t-shirt, but it does look good on Jeremy. What's his name? Jeremy Irons.
matt: Jimmy Allen White?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, Jeremy Allen White.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it does.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: I agree. I have i don't have a MERS. don't have anything for MERS, actually, but it looks great. you know Maybe one of these days.
Conor Fowler: Right, exactly.
matt: Wait, does he have a brand? Oh,
Jabari Sandifer: No, it's just it's a MERS B. Schwan and T. Yeah.
matt: yeah. Dude, I gotta say, i have i haveve handled them. One of the shops I used to work for sold them.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jabari Sandifer: OK.
matt: ah MERS is one of the best network companies on the fucking planet.
Jabari Sandifer: Really? OK.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, I know it's pricey, but, like, it's, like, once you put it on, if the fit works for you, it's otherworldly.
Jabari Sandifer: I believe it.
matt: Yeah, and we are not sponsored by Merge B.
Jabari Sandifer: I was absolutely.
matt: Schwanen, but I endorse that brand.
Jabari Sandifer: I got a chance to try it actually when they were here at Chicago collective, uh, I connected with some of like the black watch guys. I think they represent them.
matt: Okay. Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: Um, and like their wholesale to their wholesale partner or whatever. Um, So yeah, I got a chance to try some of their stuff on too. It is it is it is really good. I agree. But I don't own anything myself.
matt: yeah yeah i think it's also still a family-owned brand like that it's it's one of those that's been like in the same group of people forever
Jabari Sandifer: Awesome.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, that's awesome. i love when that happens. They can make it work.
matt: yeah same same so i i guess we kind of do have another chicago related question but you mentioned baseball cubs or socks
Jabari Sandifer: Keeping it keep in in with no money.
Jabari Sandifer: Sure.
Jabari Sandifer: Unfortunately, I'm not like a huge baseball guy, but I will say like it's more fun to go to a Cubs game. I've been to both. So I would rather go to Wrigley than to see the Sox play.
Jabari Sandifer: It's pretty abysmal going there, to be honest with you.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Wrigley has always seemed like one of those stadiums. And like, you know, them and the Braves when I was a kid were the were the two like nationally broadcast teams.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: So like one of my good friends, he's a diehard Cubs person. Like Mark Race was his, you know, idol growing up.
Jabari Sandifer: Okay, for sure.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it's like I like i would prefer i don't go to Wrigley often because it's a bit too much for me, but like that the area is a lot. There's a lot of partying and it's too much for me sometimes. But um but going to a game there is is really fun.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: I will say that.
matt: Wrigleyville is ridiculous.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, it is. They're calling it the new Nashville. it's It's pretty nuts, which I can see the last time i was there.
matt: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So what about the music scene? we have quite We have some questions about that. i mean
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah Chicago's own Chief Keef just released a new album like last Friday, I think.
matt: Oh, shit. I didn't realize this.
Conor Fowler: Skeletor, yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It has like tons of AI artwork.
matt: Oh, no.
Conor Fowler: um
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. I think
matt: Oh, no.
Conor Fowler: It's like lots and lots of skulls, yeah. So I don't know. I was not super fond of it because, I don't know, he he made a great album last year, which I think was surprising to everyone. But this is kind of,
Jabari Sandifer: i think like
Conor Fowler: I don't know.
Jabari Sandifer: Chicago's like music scene is interesting because there's so many different sides to it, right? there's
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: you know We have Lollapalooza, which is the shit the city shuts down for, which is awesome. and I've been going for years. It's a really cool experience to see all those artists at once.
matt: Yeah,
Jabari Sandifer: um And then like you know we have drill like Keith and like Herb and all these guys like ah you know Dirk and all these dudes that
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: to a lot when I was younger ah and you know but we also like a big punk scene from what I understand I'm not like super involved in it but like yeah exactly we have great festivals and
matt: yeah you've got Riot Fest.
Jabari Sandifer: And we have a bunch of jazz clubs. like new york I mean, Chicago's awesome. like There's always like a concert to go see. We have some great venues. like Salt Shed just opened. um It was like the Morton Salt factory, and they converted it into probably the best venue in the city, to be honest with you.
Jabari Sandifer: Now, it's pretty sick. They an outdoor spot and indoor space. It's pretty cool.
matt: Yeah, that sounds awesome.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. That's my favorite venue by far. Easy.
Conor Fowler: it up
matt: Yeah, like what what kind of shows do they have there? Like big, like what's the capacity you think?
Jabari Sandifer: I mean, it's quite a bit. i don't know off the top of my head, but they get some decently big acts.
Conor Fowler: yeah it's
Jabari Sandifer: Like I saw Krong been there last year. who else have I seen there? Yeah.
Conor Fowler: it's really enormous i mean it's like uh like the biggest industrial factory you can it's like probably that size approximately yeah
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So it's a, it's a like major venue.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, like, it's not like the United Center, but like, it's like probably where.
matt: Right. Right. Like United Senators were like Taylor Swift plays. Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Exactly.
matt: Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, that's like, yeah, superstars are gonna go but um like, you get like, you know, pretty good sized bands like Krumpin was there, you know what I mean? and
Conor Fowler: It looks pretty cool on the inside.
Jabari Sandifer: yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like the interior looks like there's like exposed rafters and stuff. I guess I haven't given much thought to what the venues that I am in are really looking like, but that looks like a beautiful one.
Conor Fowler: And of course, when they transform something that was not being used at all into something that's being used happily now, it's a win for everyone.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. Absolutely.
matt: Also not transform it into like, ah you know, like, well, apartments or like ah basically what a mall is with like, you know, food stalls and all that bullshit.
Jabari Sandifer: um
Conor Fowler: apartments, studio apartments.
Conor Fowler: Right. Hipster food court type type arrangement, which I'm sure there is something to that in there, but um I don't know.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: it's like It's good to see that. It's good to see like urban development, period.
matt: Yeah, for sure.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: For sure.
Jabari Sandifer: I completely agree.
matt: Especially if it's like more focused on like the arts in whatever capacity and like not just more capitalism.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, exactly. um good
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. It's like a nice juxtaposition of like all of the really old venues we have, which are really cool. But having something newer is pretty awesome.
matt: Yeah, totally. totally i but um I went to Riot Fest in 08, I think, because the Mighty Mighty Boston's that were playing and I've never seen i'd never seen them before that. and It was at a ah the Metro.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, yeah. OK.
matt: Yeah, like that venue fucking ruled and at that point it wasn't nearly what it is today, but like, you know, it was it was such a cool, like, I don't know, just older but still rad place to see bands.
Jabari Sandifer: 100%.
matt: And that's still open too, right?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, Metro's open. I was actually there relatively recently.
matt: Oh, nice.
Jabari Sandifer: think I saw McGee there.
matt: Oh, damn, yeah. A bunch of my friends love that dude, and I have not listened to it at all.
Jabari Sandifer: No, that's fair. it's like it's it's it's in a It's probably an acquired taste, I would say.
matt: Right, like McGee and I think Alex G is the other one that like a lot of my homies are into. and i'm Someone called them sad boy music, and I was like, ah I don't know if I can go down this road.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure. And another guy, Dijon. actually saw him at Salt Shed recently too.
Conor Fowler: he one of the best people doing it yeah
Jabari Sandifer: He's like, he's so good.
matt: No, no.
Jabari Sandifer: And he was like even better live, honestly. i was Yeah,
Conor Fowler: i can imagine that yeah and that's like unusual i would say maybe in my in my estimation it's unusual because like i've seen a lot of live hip-hop and like i kind of want it to sound like it does on the record
Jabari Sandifer: Hmm.
Conor Fowler: You know, and it doesn't quite translate so well ah on a stage, like with just a DJ behind.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: But I'm sure the Dijon show is like fantastic.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, he's he's he's really talented. He's cool.
Conor Fowler: Matt, you would probably be interested even.
matt: Yeah, what's what's the kind of vibe?
Conor Fowler: It's hard to pin down.
Jabari Sandifer: paper He's like a... He takes influence from a lot of places. Like Prince and like...
matt: Oh, okay. You you had you have me or my attention at Prince.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. I mean, he did some stuff on...
Conor Fowler: He's like a multi-instrumentalist, right?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, he plays a lot of and he plays a lot of instruments. He's a great singer. um
Conor Fowler: Funny, too.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, he's he's cool. like And him McGee like have done a lot of stuff together too, so that's why I mentioned him.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Interesting. I never heard of McGee, but I'm like in a weird music way.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, for sure. No worries.
matt: Yeah, McGee is mk.gee, right? That's, I'm not.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Oh, so I have seen it.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I just am old now. That's that's what it is. is and I'm old now. um
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I wanted to ask you about leather pants, ah which I guess I pulled from one of your sub stacks. And I'd be curious because like,
Conor Fowler: they are the final frontier i think as you uh as you describe them so i'm wondering where you are you pro leather pant anti leather pant
Jabari Sandifer: I think like I'm pro for sure. I had a pair for a while, ah from this brand called noon goons. Like I wore them at like years ago. Uh, they were like a straight, like kind of baggy ish pair.
Conor Fowler: hmm
Jabari Sandifer: Uh, I think they're sick before they had a vintage gap there. They were pretty awesome. Um, and like, how do I describe it? Like, I just feel like a rockstar wearing a kind, I don't know. Like I like, it's definitely not for everyone. And like,
Jabari Sandifer: I just wanted to...
Conor Fowler: You gotta be tall or very handsome, which unfortunately you are both of these things. So the leather pants are a non-issue.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, maybe, maybe. But like, i don't know. I saw like, i liked like biker culture growing up too. So like, I don't know.
Conor Fowler: That's fascinating.
matt: Ooh.
Jabari Sandifer: So yeah, sure.
Conor Fowler: Like outlaw bikers or like just okay.
Jabari Sandifer: I'd have both like my grandpa rode a Harley also. Um, so like he was really into motorcycles and like we would watch like orange County choppers together and stuff. And like, there was like this movie.
Conor Fowler: Wow, dude, that's awesome.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah. And there was like this, um, this one movie, what is the name of it? It was basically like a bunch of outlaw bikers. Um, and they were all wearing like, you know, like those leather biker jackets and like leather pants and they just look sick. It was like an early 2000s movie. You know, you know that vibe.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: Um, So i don't know, maybe you kind of stuck with me. don't know. I just, I think they're kind of cool.
Conor Fowler: That's so funny, dude, because like, I don't know, I'm not dogging you on the leather pants front. I just feel like you're right. Like they're divisive. People do not like them.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. I agree.
Conor Fowler: So it's refreshing to hear a a positive when the status quo is negative, I think.
Jabari Sandifer: No, for sure. i agree. And like, there's some, You know, from this past season, like this these past shows that I saw, i saw a bunch of people walk them down the runway. You know, I had, I mean, Aura Lee had a pair.
Jabari Sandifer: LaMere had a pair. Bally had a pair like a couple of years ago, I think.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: mom But yeah, B.A. was there. And there was some cool stuff. I don't know.
Conor Fowler: my friend anthony nelson in middle school he wore a pair of leather pants to school and people were so vicious about it.
Jabari Sandifer: Oh, yeah. 100%.
Conor Fowler: And it's like, he was like, I walked to school. So like the leather pant, who is more practical for the leather pant than I, like I have to walk miles to get to school.
Conor Fowler: It's fucking cold. And even still people destroyed him for the fucking leather pants.
Jabari Sandifer: sir
Conor Fowler: And he's handsome. Like there wouldn't been an issue with the leather pants. Um, but it's very like, It's curious, right? Because like it is a rockstar thing. And like when regular people quote ah quote unquote regular people are wearing them, you're very much, I don't know, you're inviting the wrong sort of attention.
Jabari Sandifer: No, fair. And like, honestly, i don't think I've ever seen anyone else wear them like another dude, but you know, i don't know, whatever. I gave it a try.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: How are they? I mean, so like, is it like leather can be quite thick.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure.
Conor Fowler: So it's not that thick?
Jabari Sandifer: Well, I'll say that like the first pair that I got, I bought i found a vintage Gat pair on eBay ah for like, i don't know, 60, 70 bucks.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jabari Sandifer: And those were like thick. like they rule they They could keep you warm on your walk to school for sure.
Conor Fowler: wow
Jabari Sandifer: um The second pair I got, they were a bit more like supple and like thin. um I would just say they're like more of a fashion pair. um they were But they were they were still pretty sick.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: I know, liked them a lot.
matt: Yeah. I had a like vintage, I think, 90s polo pair of suede pants that I got on eBay for nothing when I lived in New York and had them tailored.
Jabari Sandifer: For sure.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: And it was definitely one of those, like, am I wearing these pants or the pants wearing me things for me, personally?
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: i think there's there's probably, if you scroll back far enough, there's probably a FitPic on my Instagram, but Yeah, they they were not, like, I'm very much, like, a utilitarian type dresser.
Jabari Sandifer: absolutely
matt: Like, that's the kind of shit that I wear. And although they should have been utilitarian, I just felt like a clown.
Jabari Sandifer: No, that's completely valid. That's what we got. it We just got to try it, you know, see if it works.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jabari Sandifer: to
matt: So some things work, some things don't. Like, I love penny loafers on other people. i have never once in my life enjoyed a pair of penny loafers on myself.
Jabari Sandifer: That's completely valid. I get it.
Conor Fowler: but to each their own.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: Totally.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: So I think this was Connor's question, but ah we wanted to talk about FitPic philosophy. Yeah, like kind of like we've we've talked about this a lot on the show, but like how how do you go about, you know, arranging a FitPic?
matt: Because
Conor Fowler: Cause yours are good.
matt: Yeah, because yeah they're they're do they're dope.
Conor Fowler: It's not like they're,
matt: ah and we you know like i'm I'm usually a phone in the mirror person or like set up a timer on my phone.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: It's, I think like I It depends. Like sometimes spur of the moment stuff, like candid is really good.
Jabari Sandifer: You know what i mean?
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: You're like, you're like pretending like you're doing something and, or you actually are doing something and you get a solid look at the fit.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: ah You know, my fiance is pretty good at taking photos, so it always helps.
matt: Oh, so she's...
Conor Fowler: The truth comes out. It's
matt: Yeah, she's your photographer, essentially. How
Conor Fowler: collaborative.
Jabari Sandifer: I gotta, I gotta drag her outside all the time and take some photos of me.
matt: does she feel about this?
Jabari Sandifer: She's cool with it.
matt: No, nice.
Jabari Sandifer: She's used to, you know, except it was like, cold outside and she'll be like, I'll hear some groans, but, um, but overall that's cool.
matt: Nice. Yeah, she supports...
Jabari Sandifer: Like there's some, I think living in the city, it just makes it easier to take pictures.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, kind of, no matter what, the background's gonna be, like, somewhat interesting, too. Like, very interesting.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, exactly. 100%. So, yeah, I don't know. like there's There's a couple of things that I try that she and that she understands at this point, but, you know, like where to position me in the photo and all those things, you know, having some...
Conor Fowler: See, it's embarrassing to talk about, but it's like, it is the it is the currency of our scene, kind of.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
matt: I mean, in 2026, is it really that embarrassing to talk about? Like, you know, we...
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, i' it's like, I don't want to teach people to be looking at me while i'm doing this, you know? It's like,
matt: But why?
Conor Fowler: ah
matt: Why does it matter? Like, it's a...
Conor Fowler: but why does it it why does it matter what anyone thinks?
matt: ah Yeah, this is true, but, like, it's a niche interest, and we all, you know, we all do our thing. so
Conor Fowler: I'm not playing video games, you know what I mean?
Jabari Sandifer: I believe it.
matt: Nothing wrong with playing video games, but yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, I feel it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, nothing against our legion of gamer fans.
matt: There's got to be some, like, menswear slash gamer collab happening at some point.
Conor Fowler: Oh my god, they're fucking Discord. Discord is the video game social network.
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't use Discord, so...
Conor Fowler: So there's a ton of crossover there.
Jabari Sandifer: But yeah, like, I don't know. It's funny because, you know, since I, as I create content, I still get embarrassed taking photos sometimes. I don't know. Cause it's like, i don't want people to see me like, oh, at this guy taking photos.
Jabari Sandifer: But like, we also probably just don't care at all.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: So I try to think about that too. So I don't
matt: I feel like the majority of people like in everyday life that we encountered don't really care about whatever is happening. As long as it's like, as long as it's not bad.
Jabari Sandifer: know.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
Conor Fowler: right i'm not like whatever doing whatever bad thing that you could see i'm not gonna i'm not gonna commit to the record
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: Sure.
matt: Yeah. Like the, the, the people that i interact with the most on a daily basis are the, the older ladies that work at the thrift store I go to every day and like a gas station attendant when I'm buying smokes and you know, like I'm, I'm trying to be pleasant and like the thrift store ladies love me.
matt: But, uh, one of them did, I called one of them sweet the other day. Cause she like hooked me up and she was like, don't go around town telling everybody I'm sweet. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this is, that this is, this is the most Southern shit imaginable.
Conor Fowler: oh that's perfect
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: dude that's so funny
matt: But yeah, like, you know, taking pictures, like everyone has a fucking amazing camera in their pocket for the most part. And like everyone takes a thousand pictures of everything all the time. Like, i don't think it's, it doesn't have the same stigma that might've had like 10 years ago.
Jabari Sandifer: I agree. I agree.
Conor Fowler: For sure.
Jabari Sandifer: like great
Conor Fowler: And because I do remember like in the in the early days like of forums posting, people were like, well, one, because people were being eviscerated constantly.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: So they were very scared.
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: yeah I mean, it's ah it's a much nicer world that we all live in in our little in our little pocket of the internet space.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. At least this one.
Jabari Sandifer: That's funny. Absolutely.
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: i people are People are generally nice, like on the internet, to me at least. So, I
matt: Yeah, I think, like, clothing culture, or, like, our part of clothing culture is more or less very supportive. Like you it's not how it was on South or in back of the day or like super future, you know, like.
Jabari Sandifer: don't know.
Conor Fowler: like making fun of like shit in people's background you know just like really ripping people to shreds so it's good that we're past that
matt: Right, right.
Jabari Sandifer: a lot of interesting.
matt: Yeah, yeah. ah I managed a store on the Lower East Side of New York for a few years when I lived there. And like everyone in the neighborhood hated Mostef because all he never bought anything.
matt: He would come into every single like clothing store on this two-block radius, take a picture, like a selfie in the mirror, and leave.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: you
matt: I think that's a lot.
Jabari Sandifer: Wait, what? You have the wrapper?
matt: Yeah, Mostef the Rapper.
Jabari Sandifer: That's so
matt: Yeah, dude. he He was like the bane of everyone's existence. I think I sold him a pair of shoes a couple of times. Like, he was he was always fine, but like, I just knew he was going to come in. I'd say, hey, how are you Like, you know, let me know if I can help. He would take a picture in the mirror and leave.
matt: And that was that was like once every like two weeks.
Jabari Sandifer: That's hilarious.
Jabari Sandifer: That's so funny.
matt: I know. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of why no one should care. No one should care about you taking selfies because most of us out here fucking taking selfies.
Jabari Sandifer: That's so funny.
Conor Fowler: um So my final note is about this picture of Denzel Washington with the houndstooth blazer.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: You know this one?
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, of course.
Conor Fowler: I think you kind of introduced me to it. um Maybe Jamal. I'm not sure. But I just thought like, what a fucking. I don't know. There's like a lot of inspiration pictures out there, but it is like such an effortless.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. And he's like kind of a forgotten guy now, sort of.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, I think like
Conor Fowler: Is he is he is he retired? I don't know.
Jabari Sandifer: he, yeah, that picture is incredible. Uh, it inspired a video I made like last year too, I think. Um, but it's like quintessential nineties. You know what i mean?
Jabari Sandifer: Like big old blazers, denim t-shirt baseball cap.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Very.
Jabari Sandifer: You can't beat it. It's easy. You know, it's, uh, and Denzel, like he has some great, like old pictures that
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: you know i take reference from that I know some other guys that do too. he looked He looked really cool back in the day. He was sick.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, for sure.
matt: yeah He also always seemed like one of those just naturally stylish dudes. Like maybe he had, you know, a wardrobe person or a stylist or whatever, but like any, any photo of him from like the late eighties to the late nineties, you see, it's just like Denzel fucking just rocking shit.
Conor Fowler: you
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: 100%. Yeah, he looks sick. He looks sick. For sure.
matt: So I guess to to kind of wind down, um you know, you're, you've been in the game of of making content and like in the internet menswear spaces for the past couple few years, like what, what kind of goals do you, do you see pursuing, you know, for the somewhat near future?
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jabari Sandifer: sure Um, you know, definitely want to keep growing sunny. He's like, I like having something in real life, uh, outside of the internet, um, that no one can like take away from me, which is cool.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jabari Sandifer: Cause like if Instagram shut down, like, you know, it's what it is. Uh, so I like having that. And then, I'm working on a couple of pieces, like clothing with some friends, like, um, to like just put out into the world and make it, you know what i mean?
matt: Yeah.
Jabari Sandifer: and ideally drop some of it at Sunny's, which would be cool.
matt: Okay.
Jabari Sandifer: a So we can have like a in-person thing here.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jabari Sandifer: and um Yeah, i don't know. Just keep talking about clothes online. It's fun. And i like, you know, creating community, meeting new people, ah working with really cool brands.
matt: Right.
Jabari Sandifer: That's just kind of stuff I want to keep doing, I guess. But like in the in the short term, I want to build something of my own, you know, really the goal and like use the platform that I've built to like, you know, give it some, ah give it some legs.
matt: Right.
matt: Fuck yeah.
Conor Fowler: A man with a plan.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: Yeah, well, yeah, it's it sounds like you're doing good work, and yeah, I'll keep an eye on some of these. That sounds dope.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, absolutely. It's ah it's cool. It's a cool thing. And I think it a it'll get even bigger. you know So it's dope.
matt: Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Well, Jabari, one more time, thank you for coming on and spending you know about an hour with us and
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely.
matt: talking about shit. We talked about Chicago a lot, which I hope you're cool with. ah But, ah yeah, good, good.
Jabari Sandifer: I love Chicago all day.
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah.
matt: Yeah, it seems like it. You know, like, it's kind of, I don't know. It's your town, essentially. So.
Jabari Sandifer: It is. like being the Chicago guy. You know, that's what people call me from New York. They call me a Chicago guy. I'm good with it.
matt: That's awesome. That's awesome.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah, we got to get more places than New York and LA on the map, man. Come on.
Jabari Sandifer: Absolutely. I agree.
matt: Um, but yeah, tell, uh, tell everyone where they can find, out what you're doing and your exploits.
Jabari Sandifer: Yeah, for sure. ah Instagram, Jabari, Sandifer, no dots, no dashes. Same thing on TikTok. Wear your pants break on Substack.
Jabari Sandifer: And Sunny's trading posts. Check it all out loud.
matt: Nice. Yeah. And everyone, everyone give, uh, give him and his pursuits a follow.
matt: We thank everyone for listening. We are at ApocalypseDuds on Instagram. ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com. If you want to send us an email of any sort.
matt: Even tell us that we're pieces of shit. i don't
Conor Fowler: Sing this a chorus.
matt: Send us a meme. Send us whatever. um But yeah. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Fowler at Real Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next Wednesday.
Conor Fowler: Ta-da.
Jabari Sandifer: there's
