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"The Chicago Guy" with Jabari Sandifer
148 Plays13 days ago
This week, we’re delighted to welcome the indomitable writer, dresser, clothing community organizer, and all around cool cat, Jabari Sandifer to the studio. He gives us a glimpse into the city of Chicago from a seasoned local. We chat about familial influences on style, the always gnarly Kangol hat, finding your way into building community, some true Chicagoan takes that might surprise you, searching for something real, the sneakerhead to tailored clothing pipeline, the task of styling leather, and many more bombshell topics!
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Transcript
Introduction to Apocalypse Duds and Guest Jabari Sandefur
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Hello everyone and welcome to Apocalypse Duds. I'm your co-host Connor Fowler.
00:00:08
matt
And I am the other co-host, Matt Smith.
00:00:12
Conor Fowler
It seems like it's been a while since we have done this, even though it's only been like not that long. It's maybe a month, ah but two weeks, two weeks.
00:00:20
matt
Two weeks, two weeks.
00:00:23
Conor Fowler
ah So Today in studio, we have Jabari Sandefur, a writer, stylist, good dresser, founder of Sunny's Trading Post and the sub stack, Wear Your Pants Break, which ah the way that it breaks on the line, it just says, wear your pants, which I thought was funny, but that's not not what it is.
00:00:41
matt
ha
00:00:43
Conor Fowler
So welcome. Thank you for being here.
The Importance of Pants Break in Menswear
00:00:46
matt
Yeah. Well, where your pants break is a really great, like a title for, for anything related to like menswear. One of the best I've seen, I think.
00:00:56
Conor Fowler
Cause there's some bad shit out there. Definitely.
00:00:59
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:00:59
matt
Oh yeah. Yeah. Wait, wait, just to just out of curiosity, where are you on the pants break spectrum?
00:01:07
Conor Fowler
question.
00:01:08
Jabari Sandifer
You know, honestly, it just depends on what I'm wearing. Like sometimes 90% of the time I need like a little bit of a break. Uh, but there are occasions where like I can show some sock or some skin, you know i mean?
00:01:22
matt
Yeah, totally. Totally.
00:01:24
Jabari Sandifer
Mainly.
00:01:24
matt
Are you a tall dude?
00:01:27
Jabari Sandifer
I'm sorry. What?
00:01:28
matt
Are you a tall dude? Like, like.
00:01:30
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, I wouldn't say i'm super tall. I'm like six one, but like.
00:01:34
matt
Okay, yeah.
00:01:34
Conor Fowler
That's fucking tall. I object to that categorization.
00:01:36
matt
Well, yeah, for for both for both of us, that is definitely tall. I'm Connor, you're Yeah, yeah, yeah. seven
00:01:42
Conor Fowler
Seven, approximately.
00:01:43
matt
yeah yeah
00:01:44
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:01:44
matt
yeah
00:01:44
Jabari Sandifer
Sure.
00:01:45
Conor Fowler
Six one is tall by anyone's stretch of the imagination.
00:01:45
Jabari Sandifer
I grew up.
00:01:47
Conor Fowler
I think five, 10 people say that they are not tall. And in fact, they are average. But at six one, you are tall, I think provably.
00:01:56
Jabari Sandifer
That's fair. I grew up, I grew up playing basketball. So, and I played it in college.
00:02:00
Conor Fowler
So relatively tall.
00:02:00
Jabari Sandifer
So I used I was walking around with six, eight guys, seven footers.
00:02:01
matt
Oh, shit. Damn.
00:02:06
Jabari Sandifer
So I felt, always felt small.
00:02:08
matt
Right, right. Were you a point guard?
00:02:10
Jabari Sandifer
I was. Yeah.
00:02:11
matt
Okay, nice, nice. Yeah, i feel like 6'1 is kind of for the the perfect, unless you're John Stockton, Spud Webb, who was like, you know, 5'9 or something.
00:02:16
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. Exactly. No, no. All right.
00:02:21
matt
ah Yeah, sorry. Talking about sports. Connor hates sports.
00:02:24
Conor Fowler
Oh my God, no, they're fine.
00:02:24
Jabari Sandifer
no no
00:02:27
Conor Fowler
They're fine.
00:02:27
matt
Okay.
00:02:27
Conor Fowler
They just exclude short people. Where are we with this? This is a clothing show.
00:02:32
matt
Right, right. Anyway.
00:02:33
Conor Fowler
we're gonna We have questions about sports later in the in the show anyway, so it's fine.
00:02:36
matt
It's true. It's true. ah Yeah. Jabari, welcome. Thanks for coming
Jabari's Journey from Bolingbrook to Chicago
00:02:41
matt
on. um So just to just to kick things off, where are you from and where are you now?
00:02:47
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, so grew up in a town called Bowling Brook outside of Chicago, 50 minutes outside of the city with no traffic.
00:02:52
matt
OK.
00:02:56
Jabari Sandifer
um
00:02:57
matt
wi Which direction?
00:02:57
Jabari Sandifer
and have ah Southwest.
00:03:02
matt
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
00:03:03
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, and I've lived in the city proper for the past like eight years.
00:03:08
Jabari Sandifer
So yeah, I've been around Illinois, Chicago most of life, or all my life, honestly.
00:03:08
matt
Nice.
00:03:14
matt
Yeah, it's been a very long time since I've been to Chicago, but like it was always one of my favorite cities when I was there. I actually thought about moving there a long time ago, and it just never happened.
00:03:23
Jabari Sandifer
That's fair. It's the best. I love it. I love it out here.
00:03:26
matt
Yeah, yeah. Great. ah Great people like and it's I don't know the vibe of Chicago was always and I mean, honestly, like from what I've heard from my friends in the in the menswear industry, like the best clothing show is now the Chicago Collective.
00:03:42
matt
So
00:03:42
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've had a lot of people come out here the past couple of years, so it's been pretty cool.
00:03:46
Jabari Sandifer
There's been some act stuff. Oh, it's nice.
00:03:46
matt
yeah, yeah.
00:03:49
matt
Definitely. Also incredible pierogi. ah
00:03:53
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. We got it all, all the food.
00:03:55
matt
Yeah, totally. Totally. um And so, yeah, you you said you've been there eight years now?
00:04:02
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. Living in the city. I moved right, moved here right after college, moved downtown. So been here ever since.
00:04:07
matt
Nice.
00:04:10
Conor Fowler
So could you tell us about Sunny's trading post? I guess that's like a major thing that you're up to at the moment.
00:04:18
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure. Um, so There are a lot of great vintage like menswear dealers in Chicago that I know personally that I shop with that I've heard of um mainly that I shop with because I do a lot of vintage shopping, but um I wanted and I know those other people that were looking to shop from these from these stores as well, but a lot of them are appointment only.
00:04:43
Jabari Sandifer
um you know Or they just don't know about them in general. right So I kind of wanted to bring them all together into one space and you know allow people to shop from all of them at once.
00:04:54
Jabari Sandifer
um
00:04:54
matt
Oh, hell yeah.
00:04:55
Jabari Sandifer
yeah So it was like it was a bit of that, maybe a bit selfish of myself to want want to be able to shop from all them my onces of at myself.
00:04:57
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:05:03
Jabari Sandifer
but
00:05:03
matt
Right.
00:05:04
Jabari Sandifer
And also to say a community building thing, you know, we don't have as many events like they do in New York. Um, so I, it was a cool way to bring people who care about the same stuff as me together as well.
00:05:16
Jabari Sandifer
Um,
00:05:17
matt
Oh, that's awesome. So it's, it I know nothing about this. I'm sorry. I should have should have researched, but like it's a market that you put on.
00:05:24
Jabari Sandifer
yeah, yeah. It's a market.
00:05:24
matt
Okay, dope, dope.
00:05:26
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:05:27
matt
Yeah, and how long have you been doing it?
00:05:30
Jabari Sandifer
So started just last year.
00:05:32
matt
Okay.
00:05:32
Jabari Sandifer
I'm going on my third one this weekend, actually. um And yeah we've had two we yeah, we've had two so far. our Second one, the first one was okay. I'm just kind of putting feelers out there. But second one was pretty crazy.
00:05:44
Jabari Sandifer
you got a ton of people come by. um
00:05:46
matt
Oh, hell yeah, that's awesome.
00:05:47
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, I probably, i marketed it a bit more though. um
00:05:50
matt
Right, right.
00:05:51
Jabari Sandifer
And the second one, I think it's going to, or this third one is going to be even bigger, I think. So yeah, it's, I think it's picking up.
00:05:58
Conor Fowler
That's your actor you want, right?
00:05:59
matt
Yeah, totally, totally. I've been, I sell vintage for a living and like do markets and also book and promote markets for the past nine years. And so like, yeah, yeah. Like building that community and that kind of like collective mentality is such an important thing to do.
00:06:20
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Sorry, my bunny was on the ramp. But absolutely.
00:06:25
Conor Fowler
Did you say bunny?
00:06:26
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, have a bunny.
00:06:28
matt
Oh my God.
00:06:28
Conor Fowler
You have a bunny.
00:06:28
matt
Wait.
00:06:29
Conor Fowler
I thought you said puppy. And then I was like, where is the dog?
00:06:31
Jabari Sandifer
No.
00:06:31
matt
eight Wait, wait, wait.
00:06:32
Conor Fowler
So it's a bunny.
00:06:34
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:06:35
matt
Can we see said bunny?
00:06:37
Jabari Sandifer
She won't let me pick her up.
00:06:39
matt
Ah, okay. But she is a house bunny.
00:06:40
Jabari Sandifer
more She is a housewife.
00:06:42
matt
Oh, my God.
00:06:42
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:06:42
Conor Fowler
And what is her name?
00:06:43
matt
That's... that's
00:06:45
Jabari Sandifer
Her name is Olive.
00:06:46
Conor Fowler
That is a great bunny name.
00:06:46
matt
Olive.
00:06:48
matt
That's a great bunny name, for sure. Yeah, yeah. that is what One more bunny question.
00:06:52
Jabari Sandifer
Yes.
00:06:52
Conor Fowler
So go on.
00:06:55
matt
is she So she's litter box trained, I'm assuming.
00:06:58
Jabari Sandifer
Yep, she is. Yeah. So she's a...
00:06:59
matt
that's That's fucking awesome. have two cats and like I've always dreamt about having a house bunny.
00:07:04
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, she's like, he's ah she's going through a little phase right now.
00:07:05
Conor Fowler
house bunny
00:07:08
Jabari Sandifer
She's being a little bit destructive, but ah she's she's good overall. She's she's free roam, so she just hangs out throughout the house. That's pretty good.
00:07:16
matt
Oh, that's fucking awesome, man. Yeah, yeah.
00:07:17
Conor Fowler
wow dude i never even knew well so back then to the name question who is sunny okay
00:07:24
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. That was my grandpa. so that was his nickname. um That's what everybody called him, so i just... little homage to him. You know, he was someone that kind of influenced ah a lot of how I dress today. So, you know, I think it was just a cool homage to to him.
00:07:44
Conor Fowler
What do what kind of stuff was he wearing? I mean.
00:07:47
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. Like always wearing a pair of loafers, trousers, like an old Hawaiian shirt, a Kangol, like, yeah.
00:07:56
matt
Oh, the Kangol.
00:07:57
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:07:58
Jabari Sandifer
Like he never, he always had a Kangol on. That's like, that was his thing.
00:08:01
matt
Dude, that's so sick.
00:08:03
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. And grand I don't really wear a Kangol, but just like, i don't know, just someone that from Chicago, like, he's from Mississippi originally, but like lived in Chicago, just like, just a really stylish dude. You know what I mean? And, uh, always was always dressed well, you know what i mean? I never saw him dressed down. So that that's like something that I kind of took with me too.
00:08:26
matt
Oh, that's really cool. Was was he a blues guy? I know that's kind of like a cliche because Chicago, like, you know, Southern dudes move into Chicago to play blues, but like the great, yeah, totally.
00:08:35
Conor Fowler
Well, the great migration, right?
00:08:37
Jabari Sandifer
yeah
00:08:38
matt
and And like also one of my favorite, you know, types of music. So.
00:08:42
Jabari Sandifer
absolutely um i wouldn't i wouldn't say it necessarily a blues guy i mean maybe i'm sure he liked it um but he liked a lot of like marvin gay and like um very white that kind of vibe yeah absolutely yeah that's
00:08:51
matt
Okay. Dope. Dope. Yeah. Related stuff. Yeah, that's real cool.
00:09:00
Conor Fowler
So you said that most of the men in your family work construction are on the railroad.
00:09:07
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:09:07
Conor Fowler
um Could you tell us a little about that and how it's affected your style?
Family Influence on Jabari's Style
00:09:13
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure. um Like starting with my pops, he he worked for ComEd, what is the electric company here in Chicago for his entire career, 30 years. And, you know, he wore workwear to work every day, right? So he was wearing Carhartt, Dickies, you know, whatever it was, ah I think mainly Carhartt.
00:09:33
Jabari Sandifer
But my earliest memories are like not wanting him to go to work and leave, you know i'm saying? ah But he's wearing like, You know, that ah the hooded Carhartt, and he got me one when I was a kid.
00:09:46
Jabari Sandifer
um You know, my grandpa that I was just mentioning, Sonny, he worked on the railroad. um And like half of my mom's family worked for General Motors, General Motors locomotive here in Chicago.
00:09:57
matt
Oh, wow.
00:09:57
Conor Fowler
You came honest.
00:09:57
matt
Yeah.
00:10:01
Jabari Sandifer
Um, so there's just a lot of, you know, like blue collar work for my family that, um, mainly from my dad that I got it from. Cause like I was around him the most, of course.
00:10:12
matt
Right.
00:10:12
Jabari Sandifer
Um, but like, he does always wore it.
00:10:12
matt
Right.
00:10:14
Jabari Sandifer
Like, you know what i mean? and it is something that kind of stuck with me and I love it. And I i've have a ton of little car myself that I just wear. Yeah.
00:10:21
matt
Oh, it's the best.
00:10:22
Jabari Sandifer
yeah
00:10:23
matt
Yeah.
00:10:24
Conor Fowler
came to it honest
00:10:26
matt
You did come to it honest.
00:10:28
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Exactly. that no No stolen valor over here for the most part.
00:10:32
matt
ha And I'm sure like your grandpa, ah wait, how old are you?
00:10:32
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:10:37
Jabari Sandifer
I'm 30. I'll be 31 in the next month.
00:10:38
matt
Okay.
00:10:39
Jabari Sandifer
yeah
00:10:39
matt
Okay. so your your grandpa was probably like wearing some of the like, you know, best mid-century workwear too, I would imagine if he's working on a railroad and like, you know, wearing denim or or whatever, like work jackets and shit.
00:10:49
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. i didn't I didn't get any of it, unfortunately. But
00:10:56
matt
Man, that's that's such a sad tale. I didn't get any of my grandpa's shit either. So, yeah. It ah it bums me out that that you know all of us that like love this shit just...
00:11:03
Jabari Sandifer
Exactly. yeah
00:11:08
matt
I don't know. they Maybe we didn't know about it early enough or like it just got tossed out. of
00:11:13
Conor Fowler
It's the great, it is part of the great irony, right?
00:11:16
matt
Yeah, it is. yeah Which is part of the reason...
00:11:17
Conor Fowler
It's like, it would have just been too much if you had gotten it all, it would be like, God, you, you got the cheat codes.
00:11:23
matt
Well, it's part of the reason why i'm like, you know, vintage clothing is so cool to me because you can like, you know, if there happens to be stuff at a yard sale or an estate sale or whatever, like you can kind of, you know, I love putting a face to a name or like hearing stories like, oh, this is my, my daddy's jacket.
00:11:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:11:43
matt
He wore it every day to, to work at the factory. Like that shit is unprecedented.
00:11:49
Jabari Sandifer
I agree, that's like the coolest stuff.
00:11:49
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:11:51
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:11:51
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:11:53
matt
totally so So kind of what's what's the vibe of like Chicago style-wise? Both vintage and and you know just other people that you might see every day.
00:12:05
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. um it's There's no like, the the difference between like, I'll compare it to New York, right? People New York walk and take the train everywhere.
00:12:18
Jabari Sandifer
um That's a little bit different here in Chicago. Like you can get away with driving everywhere, which i typically do.
00:12:22
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:25
Jabari Sandifer
um So you're not always like seeing people in the street, you know,
00:12:29
matt
Right.
00:12:30
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:12:31
Jabari Sandifer
Granted, I go down i go downtown, on Michigan Avenue, like there's a spot in Chicago called Licker Park where you'll see vintage, younger kids that, you know they look cool.
00:12:36
matt
Yeah.
00:12:41
Jabari Sandifer
And if you go near the art school out here too, you'll see some kids that look cool downtown.
00:12:46
matt
Right.
00:12:48
Jabari Sandifer
But like you know when you go to the places where people my age go, right like West Loop, somewhat River North, um it's pretty corporate. you know what i mean you don't see a ton I don't see a ton of people dressed like me, at least, I'll say.
00:13:00
Jabari Sandifer
um
00:13:00
matt
Right.
00:13:01
Jabari Sandifer
We kind of have to create those environments. You know what I mean? Like like my homie Kale out here, goodform formerly Good Form Vintage, now Kale Dero USA.
00:13:08
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:13:10
matt
Oh, yeah, I know him.
00:13:11
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, Cale's a good homie. He has open hours all the time. So people go over there, you know, they always look cool. um No Trey has some events, no Trey shop here in Chicago. So you really have to like go to these things to like see people, you know, or like throw in yourself like I'm trying to do um to see people on the street, like that look interesting to me.
00:13:29
matt
Right.
00:13:33
Jabari Sandifer
You know what i mean?
00:13:34
matt
Yeah, I feel it.
00:13:35
Jabari Sandifer
So, but yeah
00:13:37
Conor Fowler
That's the struggle, though. I mean, I feel like for basically anywhere that isn't New York, unfortunately, is like you got to really put in the footwork to get your like hobby homies, you know.
00:13:48
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Chicago vs. New York Fashion Scene
00:13:50
Jabari Sandifer
And like, you'll see around like other things besides clothes, like art, art shows or, you know what i mean?
00:13:50
matt
Yeah.
00:13:54
Jabari Sandifer
Stuff like that. Like music.
00:13:55
Conor Fowler
yeah, ye yeah.
00:13:56
matt
Yeah, yeah. Oh, Chicago has always been such a good, you know, good music town. And, like, across different genres, like, rest in peace Steve Albini. um You know, like, it's it's such a cool it it's such a cool vibe and, like, has always kind of had that.
00:14:15
Jabari Sandifer
So um so i get I get my major dose of you know style inspiration when I go to New York, mainly.
00:14:19
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:14:24
Jabari Sandifer
or just online, you know I mean?
00:14:24
matt
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, one of the the best vintage stores I've ever been to and like every time i I was ever in Chicago. I don't know if it's still open, but I think it was called the Land of the Lost.
00:14:36
matt
And I want to say it was in Wicker Park, but it was just like such an amalgam of like different, different kind of shit. But you could tell that it was very intentional.
00:14:46
Jabari Sandifer
Was it the guy, older dude with the dog?
00:14:52
matt
Fuck, this would have been like, I think the last time I went there was like 2009. But i that sounds familiar.
00:14:59
Jabari Sandifer
there was ah There was a shop there for a really long time. Older guy. He passed away a couple of years ago, but he had like a giant dog that kind of just sat by the door.
00:15:07
matt
yeah, I think that was it. And it was, was it kind of like, like down, like off the street a little bit?
00:15:13
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, a little bit.
00:15:14
matt
Yeah, yeah, I think that I think you're absolutely correct.
00:15:14
Jabari Sandifer
He...
00:15:17
matt
And that's, that's the story it was.
00:15:19
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, he had this.
00:15:20
Conor Fowler
I found it. I think it is closed. I mean, it would make sense, I guess, if he died.
00:15:22
matt
Uh, yeah. yeah
00:15:23
Conor Fowler
agree.
00:15:24
matt
Yeah.
00:15:24
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:15:25
matt
Also Belmont Army Navy. Uh, I don't know if you ever went there, but like that was also a really cool shop to go into. Like it was kind of small the first time I went and then expanded to like four floors.
00:15:31
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:15:35
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, they still have this. That's still and and on Milwaukee.
00:15:38
matt
Is it really?
00:15:39
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:15:39
matt
and that's, that's worker park also, right?
00:15:42
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it is.
00:15:42
matt
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just remember like, you know, they had a bunch of surplus, but then like every floor was like a different decade or something.
00:15:51
Jabari Sandifer
It's definitely not that big now. It's only like two floors. It's mainly like certain, and they have some new stuff like Stussy and a couple other things.
00:15:54
matt
Okay.
00:15:57
Jabari Sandifer
so
00:15:57
matt
Got, yeah, there was, there was definitely like a street where bent to one of the floors back then.
00:16:02
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure.
00:16:03
matt
Nice, nice. Well, uh, speaking of the Chicago collective show, have you, have you had any interaction with that or like been okay?
00:16:11
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:16:12
matt
Yeah. Can you tell us about it a little bit like your experience?
00:16:13
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:16:16
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, absolutely. I went for the first time last February. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with No Chaser Magazine. um they They go to like Pity and, you know, they do some of the trade shows.
00:16:29
Jabari Sandifer
It's like a a publication based in Brooklyn. Yeah.
00:16:32
matt
Wow.
00:16:33
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:16:34
Jabari Sandifer
And they invited me to like help them with some content last time. And yeah, I went to check out the show. It's massive. Pretty crazy. if If you're familiar with Merchandise Mart, it's just like, I think Merchandise Mart has its own zip code.
00:16:51
Jabari Sandifer
That's how big it
00:16:51
matt
Wow.
00:16:51
Conor Fowler
who you
00:16:52
matt
wow wow
00:16:53
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, like literally I think so. But it's like, it's huge, massive building. But anyways, it's like two or three floors. It's like three or maybe three three or four floors in there. So it's huge.
00:17:04
Jabari Sandifer
um But it was cool. Like I got to meet a bunch of brands, network with some people.
00:17:08
matt
Yeah.
00:17:09
Jabari Sandifer
And then last year there were a couple of events around it. Like Buck Mason did a couple of things these past couple of years. So it was cool. Like it was cool people were coming into the city for it.
00:17:21
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:17:21
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:17:22
matt
Right, right. Yeah. Like ah most of the people that I know still in the industry, like go to that show because I guess the the New York shows are basically defunct at this point. Like that's what I kind of came up going to.
00:17:35
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it was, that's what I've heard. You know, if people go to like Paris typically, and then there's like, it's like, I was just surprised at how it's very like business though.
00:17:46
Jabari Sandifer
It's like, not like, you know, you have bunch of buyers in stores, you know what i mean?
00:17:48
matt
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:17:51
Jabari Sandifer
Like they're down, they're there to like actually like buy stuff for their store. So,
00:17:54
Conor Fowler
you.
00:17:54
matt
Right.
00:17:54
Jabari Sandifer
a
00:17:54
matt
Right. We don't quite have the same like, like generational thing like pity does, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the street style icons that we all see and know, like, you know, their, their dad or their uncle was in the industry.
00:18:09
matt
and Like they've been going to pity for 40 fucking years, but like, we just don't have that same kind of mentality.
00:18:17
Jabari Sandifer
But yeah, it's a cool thing to like bring people to Chicago and like check out the scene. And you know i get to get see some people that I don't see all the time. So it's cool.
00:18:25
matt
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. How ah how long like have you kind of been in the, I guess, internet menswear
Jabari's Entry into Menswear and the Role of Social Media
00:18:33
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:18:34
matt
scene, for lack of a better term?
00:18:36
Jabari Sandifer
For sure. um I've always kind of like just been into clothes. I wasn't, not going to say i was like a style form guy or like anything like that.
00:18:43
Conor Fowler
you.
00:18:46
matt
riot Right, right.
00:18:47
Jabari Sandifer
um But I was always like into the way people dress and how I dress. um I would say like in college, I started to like, you know, read more GQ and like, uh,
00:19:03
Jabari Sandifer
I was watching a lot of round two YouTube back then.
00:19:06
matt
ah Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:19:08
Jabari Sandifer
I was like really into opening a vintage store at some point. um So I would say like, that's where I started transitioning out of like, you know, mall brands into like actual menswear.
00:19:22
Jabari Sandifer
You know what i mean?
00:19:22
matt
Right, right.
00:19:22
Jabari Sandifer
I'm getting interested in that and vintage and stuff like that. So that's like 10 years ago. um But I didn't start like posting on the internet until,
00:19:34
Jabari Sandifer
twenty twenty 2024, maybe to a little, maybe 2023. Um, I started posting on Tik TOK and stuff. So like, I kind of got met people that way, but years before that I was from afar, I was just a fan.
00:19:50
Jabari Sandifer
You know what i mean?
00:19:51
matt
Right, right.
00:19:52
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:19:52
Conor Fowler
I think that's where Dimal found you on TikTok.
00:19:55
Jabari Sandifer
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. yeah That's where I started off posting on Tik TOK a lot. Uh, then transitioned to Instagram a couple of years ago.
00:20:02
matt
What kind of stuff did you grow up wearing?
00:20:06
Jabari Sandifer
I was a big Karma Loop guy, you know, like wearing like 10 deep and Wesk and like, um what else?
00:20:09
Conor Fowler
um
00:20:16
Jabari Sandifer
I mean, Stussy, of course. um I love Supreme, never really had any when I was younger. um i was wearing Vans and i like, so you know, i like skate culture, but I also played basketball. i So i was big into sneakers.
00:20:29
matt
Right, right.
00:20:30
Jabari Sandifer
like sneakers is probably like my four way, my foray into style. Um, you know, time yeah.
00:20:36
matt
I think that's that's true for a lot of us.
00:20:39
Jabari Sandifer
Cause it was like a huge thing growing up like dunks and, you know, Jordans, uh,
00:20:45
Conor Fowler
In Chicago, of course.
00:20:47
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Naturally. um So yeah, that kind of got me into it, but yeah, that's what i was wearing when I was younger. Like then I got it. I remember getting my first pair of five ah ones I know, in middle school, maybe think I had some shrink to fits shrink to fits were cool back then too.
00:20:59
matt
Right.
00:21:03
Jabari Sandifer
Also. So yeah, hundred percent.
00:21:03
matt
Yeah, they they fit so much better. And like the quality control, like they weren't USA made anymore, but like, or for the most, yeah, I guess they wouldn't be at that point.
00:21:10
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:21:14
matt
But like, you could buy the same size every time instead of having to try on like 29 through a 32 to see which one actually fits.
00:21:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:21:24
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. um But yeah, I was super into like graphic tees and you know stuff like that. And skate culture and hip hop.
00:21:34
matt
Right, right.
00:21:34
Jabari Sandifer
So all these were kind of my you know what i what I dressed like.
00:21:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah, YG raps about 501s. I feel like 501s are like ah
00:21:47
Conor Fowler
universal.
00:21:48
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, Ubiquitous, 100%. Yeah.
00:21:49
matt
Yeah.
Significance of Vintage Clothing and Personal Style
00:21:50
matt
I mean, Jordan Brand did a 501 collab. I think it was like 2007 2008.
00:21:56
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, wow, really, I had no idea.
00:21:57
matt
Yeah, yeah. I remember, like, I was in Philadelphia playing a show. I think, I guess it was 2008. But, like, ah there was a shop on South Street that had, like, a drop on a Saturday.
00:22:09
matt
And they were, yet Yeah, they're pretty bizarre.
00:22:11
Conor Fowler
Whoa, these are pretty weird.
00:22:15
matt
And I can't remember what sneaker went with them. I think it, I want to say it was a Jordan 3 of some sort. But yeah, like that's, you know, that was ubiquitous for like skaters and also like hip hop heads and punk rock dudes.
00:22:31
Jabari Sandifer
100%. It's awesome. And also, i forgot one thing. like I used to wear a lot of Dickies, too, back in the day. like
00:22:37
matt
Oh man. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:38
Jabari Sandifer
yeah when I love those.
00:22:40
matt
Yeah.
00:22:40
Jabari Sandifer
at of time
00:22:40
matt
Still, i think we talked about it on the the last interview that we did, but like the new ones just feel so bad compared to like even a decade ago.
00:22:51
Jabari Sandifer
I haven't bought a pair in a long time. like I still have a couple. i have like one pair from like back in the day. But yeah, I agree.
00:22:58
matt
Yeah, yeah. it ah
00:22:59
Conor Fowler
Unless you like wear them a ton, which is hard to do because they're made of plastic.
00:23:05
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:23:05
matt
Right.
00:23:06
matt
I mean, more the canvas ones, but like traditional Dickies. Yeah, like the fit just doesn't feel right. These days.
00:23:17
Conor Fowler
So I guess the other the other main Chicago thing is the food, ah which Chicago is like proudly
00:23:26
Conor Fowler
distinct, I guess, in many different ways.
Chicago's Food Culture and Personal Favorites
00:23:29
Conor Fowler
There's pizza, there's hot dogs ah and other things. So we're wondering what first where where are you with the hot dog situation? Do you even eat hot dogs?
00:23:43
Jabari Sandifer
Uh, growing up, I did a lot, but not as much anymore. I'll have one if I go to like a baseball game, like if I go to rig.
00:23:50
Conor Fowler
So you're so you're like, what do they say?
00:23:51
matt
Right, right.
00:23:53
Conor Fowler
A social hot dogger?
00:23:55
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, I'm definitely a social. A
00:23:56
matt
Yeah, our friend Robbie is going to have a conniption fit when he hears this because he hates hot dogs.
00:24:01
Conor Fowler
They're so they're so good. I mean, even the vegan dogs are delicious.
00:24:05
matt
ah vegan A good vegan dog is hard to beat.
00:24:09
Jabari Sandifer
hundred percent. And like, yeah, like,
00:24:10
Conor Fowler
It's a ketchup vehicle. It's a mustard vehicle.
00:24:14
Jabari Sandifer
It is. it really is. i yeah, you won't catch me eating one too often. Like it's probably once a year. um
00:24:20
matt
right Yeah.
00:24:21
Jabari Sandifer
but there's some other like Chicago staples, like an Italian beef. Like I love that.
00:24:26
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:24:27
Jabari Sandifer
Like that's my thing. You know, I'll have that a couple of times.
00:24:30
Conor Fowler
So that you, ah you indulge yourself.
00:24:33
Jabari Sandifer
hundred percent. Yeah. well
00:24:34
matt
What, wait, what is,
00:24:34
Conor Fowler
But so it's a Chicago hot dog, not worth indulging.
00:24:38
Jabari Sandifer
I'm not going to say it's not worth indulging for one.
00:24:38
Conor Fowler
Cause
00:24:40
Jabari Sandifer
You have to go to the right place, but two, uh,
00:24:43
Conor Fowler
where's the right place. Do you have a place in mind? I mean,
00:24:45
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, like Gene and Jude's, that's like the that's the Chicago staple spot. I think it's a little bit outside the city, though.
00:24:54
Conor Fowler
what's the one where they're really mean to you?
00:24:59
Jabari Sandifer
It could be Gene and Jude's.
00:25:00
Conor Fowler
I don't know.
00:25:00
Jabari Sandifer
I don't
00:25:01
Conor Fowler
I remember people going there and like just to scream at the people working and the people working would scream also.
00:25:08
Jabari Sandifer
There's a place called Ed DeBevick's where that they do that. um that's like their' That's like their shtick, you know what I mean?
00:25:15
matt
Right.
00:25:16
Jabari Sandifer
They'll call you names and stuff. But that could be Red Hot Ranch, too. Red Hot Ranch is solid, also. There's couple those.
00:25:23
Conor Fowler
I'm looking this up here.
00:25:24
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, you know what? I actually know what you're thinking.
00:25:25
Conor Fowler
The wiener circle.
00:25:26
Jabari Sandifer
Winner Circle. That's what it is. Winner Circle. Yeah, that's in Lincoln Park, for sure. Or in Lakeview.
00:25:31
Conor Fowler
And I have never been there.
00:25:31
Jabari Sandifer
that's
00:25:32
Conor Fowler
See, I have had, I have had a great many hot dogs. Like I was in a hot dog eating contest.
00:25:38
Jabari Sandifer
Where?
00:25:38
Conor Fowler
I only ate two hot dogs.
00:25:41
matt
Oh.
00:25:41
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, wow.
00:25:41
Conor Fowler
The guy next to me started throwing up after his like second hot dog.
00:25:46
Conor Fowler
So I was like, this is not good. He was like really beefy, like a bodybuilder type character.
00:25:49
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:25:51
Conor Fowler
It's like, dude, you can't just decide to eat like garbage.
00:25:57
Jabari Sandifer
Right.
00:25:59
Conor Fowler
Clearly you take care of yourself. You're not allowed to do this. So this guy had like a legalize it t-shirt on and he fucking won. You can't have condiments, which is you can't have a hot dog without condiments.
00:26:06
Jabari Sandifer
Right. Yeah,
00:26:11
Conor Fowler
That's there's no point to that.
00:26:13
Jabari Sandifer
that's brutal, honestly.
00:26:14
matt
Yeah, I know certain like certain types of hot dogs, like ketchup is frowned upon, but...
00:26:20
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, Unchicongo Dogs, Ketchup's Roundup.
00:26:22
matt
Yeah, that that's what I've... I've never had a hot dog in Chicago. But, you know, like if I'm eating... i don't even remember the last time I had a vegan dog, but... like Yeah, like it's gotta have ketchup on there.
00:26:31
Conor Fowler
A tofu pup.
00:26:34
Conor Fowler
I like a Mexican hot dog, like a like a cream cheese, ah some kind of Mexican hot sauce, whatever you choose, Cholula, Valentina.
00:26:44
Jabari Sandifer
Okay. Never had one of those.
00:26:46
Conor Fowler
I think they call the Sinaloa dog. They wrap them in bacon. I would not get it wrapped in bacon if you're putting cream cheese on it. But, you know, this is another, see as you can tell, to me, it's a very dear ah product, even though it's like disgusting, right?
00:26:53
Jabari Sandifer
A
00:27:01
Jabari Sandifer
lot. No.
00:27:03
Conor Fowler
I mean, it's it's goodness is that it's disgusting. That's where some of its goodness comes from.
00:27:08
Jabari Sandifer
Honestly, that is some of the appeal, you know?
00:27:10
matt
Yeah, yeah. Like, food doesn't always have to be amazing, like, high-quality, you know, expensive, like, homemade shit.
00:27:15
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:27:18
matt
Like, sometimes you just want comfort food.
00:27:21
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Completely agree.
00:27:23
matt
Yeah. ah On the back of that question, can you tell us what the Italian beef sandwich is? Because I don't think I know it.
00:27:29
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it's like and Italian beef is like, it's kind of like shaved beef, I guess.
00:27:35
matt
Okay. Okay.
00:27:35
Jabari Sandifer
a And you like, you put like a jus on it and hot peppers or sweet.
00:27:41
matt
Oh, okay. Okay. Now I'm not a food person, but I love watching food videos for whatever reason, vegan or not. I don't care, but yeah, I've seen, I've seen this on like Instagram.
00:27:50
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:27:55
Jabari Sandifer
Okay.
00:27:55
Conor Fowler
It sounds great.
00:27:57
Jabari Sandifer
Are you familiar with ah the bear, the show?
00:27:57
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:28:01
Conor Fowler
o
00:28:02
matt
Vaguely.
00:28:03
Jabari Sandifer
Okay. the The premise of the show is literally a shop, like a 10 minute walk from my house, less than that. So it's called Mr.
00:28:10
matt
Oh shit.
00:28:11
Jabari Sandifer
It's called Mr. Beef. And like that's where the show is like shot. Like I see them filming it all the time, honestly. So it's pretty cool.
00:28:16
matt
Oh, wow. That's awesome. I really like that's Maddie Madison, Matt Matheson show, right?
00:28:22
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, he's in there. He's in there. Yeah.
00:28:23
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think that dude is cool as shit. He's got, you know, awesome taste and in vintage clothing. And like, is he's in a really good hardcore band, but I've never seen the show.
00:28:35
matt
I just know about it tangentially.
00:28:35
Jabari Sandifer
Okay. Yeah, for sure. That's a cool one.
00:28:39
Conor Fowler
Too much yelling, too much yelling. That was my review of the show.
00:28:41
Jabari Sandifer
It is a very not peaceful show. i will say that.
00:28:44
matt
Right, right, yeah. I also, i've i worked at a smoothie shop and a movie theater, but that's the closest I ever got to like service industry.
00:28:49
Jabari Sandifer
right.
00:28:50
Conor Fowler
God. Can you imagine the cutthroat smoothie shop? Like,
00:28:56
matt
No, we we were also like, you know, like the vegan or the shop that I worked for, like was, was juice based, which I think is the best smoothie.
00:28:56
Conor Fowler
god
00:29:03
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:29:04
matt
And it was like kind of hippie ish at the time and like had a lot of vegan stuff. And i was vegetarian at the time, but like, I don't think I've ever been healthier than when I worked at the smoothie shop.
00:29:15
Jabari Sandifer
That's valid. I believe it.
00:29:17
matt
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, you know, I don't know what being in the kitchen or like being on waitstaff entails. Thankfully.
00:29:25
Jabari Sandifer
No, absolutely. it's It seems pretty... One of my good friends, older brother, he's a chef, and he said it's very on point with what actually
00:29:33
matt
Right.
00:29:34
Conor Fowler
That's what I have heard from like everyone practically.
00:29:36
matt
Yeah, totally. and like that's That's kind of the selling point of the show, right? is like like Dude's a you know dudes as chef in real life. and like It's supposed to mimic what it's actually like.
00:29:49
Jabari Sandifer
For sure.
00:29:50
Conor Fowler
And he's a GQ like darling, right?
00:29:53
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:29:54
Conor Fowler
He's like the most envied t-shirt
00:29:58
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:29:58
Conor Fowler
type character, which it is a good fitting t-shirt for sure.
00:30:00
Jabari Sandifer
Oh yeah.
00:30:03
Conor Fowler
I mean, i don't i don't know that I can endorse a hundreds of dollars t-shirt, but it does look good on Jeremy. What's his name? Jeremy Irons.
00:30:12
matt
Jimmy Allen White?
00:30:13
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, Jeremy Allen White.
00:30:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:30:14
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it does.
00:30:14
matt
Yeah.
00:30:15
Jabari Sandifer
I agree. I have i don't have a MERS. don't have anything for MERS, actually, but it looks great. you know Maybe one of these days.
00:30:22
Conor Fowler
Right, exactly.
00:30:23
matt
Wait, does he have a brand? Oh,
00:30:25
Jabari Sandifer
No, it's just it's a MERS B. Schwan and T. Yeah.
00:30:27
matt
yeah. Dude, I gotta say, i have i haveve handled them. One of the shops I used to work for sold them.
00:30:32
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:30:35
Jabari Sandifer
OK.
00:30:35
matt
ah MERS is one of the best network companies on the fucking planet.
00:30:40
Jabari Sandifer
Really? OK.
00:30:41
matt
Yeah, yeah. Like, I know it's pricey, but, like, it's, like, once you put it on, if the fit works for you, it's otherworldly.
00:30:51
Jabari Sandifer
I believe it.
00:30:52
matt
Yeah, and we are not sponsored by Merge B.
00:30:52
Jabari Sandifer
I was absolutely.
00:30:55
matt
Schwanen, but I endorse that brand.
00:30:59
Jabari Sandifer
I got a chance to try it actually when they were here at Chicago collective, uh, I connected with some of like the black watch guys. I think they represent them.
00:31:08
matt
Okay. Okay.
00:31:08
Jabari Sandifer
Um, and like their wholesale to their wholesale partner or whatever. Um, So yeah, I got a chance to try some of their stuff on too. It is it is it is really good. I agree. But I don't own anything myself.
00:31:17
matt
yeah yeah i think it's also still a family-owned brand like that it's it's one of those that's been like in the same group of people forever
00:31:19
Jabari Sandifer
Awesome.
00:31:30
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, that's awesome. i love when that happens. They can make it work.
00:31:32
matt
yeah same same so i i guess we kind of do have another chicago related question but you mentioned baseball cubs or socks
00:31:32
Jabari Sandifer
Keeping it keep in in with no money.
00:31:42
Jabari Sandifer
Sure.
00:31:50
Jabari Sandifer
Unfortunately, I'm not like a huge baseball guy, but I will say like it's more fun to go to a Cubs game. I've been to both. So I would rather go to Wrigley than to see the Sox play.
00:32:01
Jabari Sandifer
It's pretty abysmal going there, to be honest with you.
00:32:04
matt
Yeah, yeah. Wrigley has always seemed like one of those stadiums. And like, you know, them and the Braves when I was a kid were the were the two like nationally broadcast teams.
00:32:14
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:32:16
matt
So like one of my good friends, he's a diehard Cubs person. Like Mark Race was his, you know, idol growing up.
00:32:24
Jabari Sandifer
Okay, for sure.
00:32:25
matt
Yeah.
00:32:26
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it's like I like i would prefer i don't go to Wrigley often because it's a bit too much for me, but like that the area is a lot. There's a lot of partying and it's too much for me sometimes. But um but going to a game there is is really fun.
00:32:41
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:41
Jabari Sandifer
I will say that.
00:32:42
matt
Wrigleyville is ridiculous.
00:32:44
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, it is. They're calling it the new Nashville. it's It's pretty nuts, which I can see the last time i was there.
00:32:52
matt
Oh, wow. Yeah.
00:32:57
Conor Fowler
So what about the music scene? we have quite We have some questions about that. i mean
00:33:02
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:33:02
Conor Fowler
ah Chicago's own Chief Keef just released a new album like last Friday, I think.
00:33:07
matt
Oh, shit. I didn't realize this.
00:33:09
Conor Fowler
Skeletor, yeah.
00:33:11
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:33:11
Conor Fowler
It has like tons of AI artwork.
00:33:14
matt
Oh, no.
00:33:14
Conor Fowler
um
00:33:14
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. I think
00:33:15
matt
Oh, no.
00:33:16
Conor Fowler
It's like lots and lots of skulls, yeah. So I don't know. I was not super fond of it because, I don't know, he he made a great album last year, which I think was surprising to everyone. But this is kind of,
00:33:32
Jabari Sandifer
i think like
00:33:32
Conor Fowler
I don't know.
Chicago's Vibrant Music Scene
00:33:34
Jabari Sandifer
Chicago's like music scene is interesting because there's so many different sides to it, right? there's
00:33:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:40
Jabari Sandifer
you know We have Lollapalooza, which is the shit the city shuts down for, which is awesome. and I've been going for years. It's a really cool experience to see all those artists at once.
00:33:51
matt
Yeah,
00:33:52
Jabari Sandifer
um And then like you know we have drill like Keith and like Herb and all these guys like ah you know Dirk and all these dudes that
00:34:02
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:34:03
Jabari Sandifer
to a lot when I was younger ah and you know but we also like a big punk scene from what I understand I'm not like super involved in it but like yeah exactly we have great festivals and
00:34:11
matt
yeah you've got Riot Fest.
00:34:18
Jabari Sandifer
And we have a bunch of jazz clubs. like new york I mean, Chicago's awesome. like There's always like a concert to go see. We have some great venues. like Salt Shed just opened. um It was like the Morton Salt factory, and they converted it into probably the best venue in the city, to be honest with you.
00:34:36
Jabari Sandifer
Now, it's pretty sick. They an outdoor spot and indoor space. It's pretty cool.
00:34:41
matt
Yeah, that sounds awesome.
00:34:42
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. That's my favorite venue by far. Easy.
00:34:45
Conor Fowler
it up
00:34:47
matt
Yeah, like what what kind of shows do they have there? Like big, like what's the capacity you think?
00:34:53
Jabari Sandifer
I mean, it's quite a bit. i don't know off the top of my head, but they get some decently big acts.
00:34:55
Conor Fowler
yeah it's
00:34:58
Jabari Sandifer
Like I saw Krong been there last year. who else have I seen there? Yeah.
00:35:07
Conor Fowler
it's really enormous i mean it's like uh like the biggest industrial factory you can it's like probably that size approximately yeah
00:35:09
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:35:16
matt
Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So it's a, it's a like major venue.
00:35:20
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, like, it's not like the United Center, but like, it's like probably where.
00:35:24
matt
Right. Right. Like United Senators were like Taylor Swift plays. Right.
00:35:27
Jabari Sandifer
Exactly.
00:35:28
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, that's like, yeah, superstars are gonna go but um like, you get like, you know, pretty good sized bands like Krumpin was there, you know what I mean? and
00:35:28
matt
Okay.
00:35:37
Jabari Sandifer
yeah.
00:35:37
Conor Fowler
It looks pretty cool on the inside.
00:35:38
Conor Fowler
Like the interior looks like there's like exposed rafters and stuff. I guess I haven't given much thought to what the venues that I am in are really looking like, but that looks like a beautiful one.
00:35:50
Conor Fowler
And of course, when they transform something that was not being used at all into something that's being used happily now, it's a win for everyone.
00:36:01
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:36:02
matt
Also not transform it into like, ah you know, like, well, apartments or like ah basically what a mall is with like, you know, food stalls and all that bullshit.
00:36:02
Jabari Sandifer
um
00:36:06
Conor Fowler
apartments, studio apartments.
00:36:14
Conor Fowler
Right. Hipster food court type type arrangement, which I'm sure there is something to that in there, but um I don't know.
00:36:17
matt
Yeah.
00:36:22
Conor Fowler
it's like It's good to see that. It's good to see like urban development, period.
00:36:28
matt
Yeah, for sure.
00:36:28
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:36:29
matt
For sure.
00:36:30
Jabari Sandifer
I completely agree.
00:36:31
matt
Especially if it's like more focused on like the arts in whatever capacity and like not just more capitalism.
00:36:35
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:36:41
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:36:41
Conor Fowler
Yeah, exactly. um good
00:36:44
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. It's like a nice juxtaposition of like all of the really old venues we have, which are really cool. But having something newer is pretty awesome.
00:36:51
matt
Yeah, totally. totally i but um I went to Riot Fest in 08, I think, because the Mighty Mighty Boston's that were playing and I've never seen i'd never seen them before that. and It was at a ah the Metro.
00:37:03
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, yeah. OK.
00:37:04
matt
Yeah, like that venue fucking ruled and at that point it wasn't nearly what it is today, but like, you know, it was it was such a cool, like, I don't know, just older but still rad place to see bands.
00:37:18
Jabari Sandifer
100%.
00:37:19
matt
And that's still open too, right?
00:37:21
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, Metro's open. I was actually there relatively recently.
00:37:24
matt
Oh, nice.
00:37:25
Jabari Sandifer
think I saw McGee there.
00:37:27
matt
Oh, damn, yeah. A bunch of my friends love that dude, and I have not listened to it at all.
00:37:33
Jabari Sandifer
No, that's fair. it's like it's it's it's in a It's probably an acquired taste, I would say.
00:37:37
matt
Right, like McGee and I think Alex G is the other one that like a lot of my homies are into. and i'm Someone called them sad boy music, and I was like, ah I don't know if I can go down this road.
00:37:48
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure. And another guy, Dijon. actually saw him at Salt Shed recently too.
00:37:55
Conor Fowler
he one of the best people doing it yeah
00:37:55
Jabari Sandifer
He's like, he's so good.
00:37:55
matt
No, no.
00:37:58
Jabari Sandifer
And he was like even better live, honestly. i was Yeah,
00:38:01
Conor Fowler
i can imagine that yeah and that's like unusual i would say maybe in my in my estimation it's unusual because like i've seen a lot of live hip-hop and like i kind of want it to sound like it does on the record
00:38:14
Jabari Sandifer
Hmm.
00:38:14
Conor Fowler
You know, and it doesn't quite translate so well ah on a stage, like with just a DJ behind.
00:38:22
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:38:23
Conor Fowler
But I'm sure the Dijon show is like fantastic.
00:38:26
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, he's he's he's really talented. He's cool.
00:38:31
Conor Fowler
Matt, you would probably be interested even.
00:38:33
matt
Yeah, what's what's the kind of vibe?
00:38:36
Conor Fowler
It's hard to pin down.
00:38:36
Jabari Sandifer
paper He's like a... He takes influence from a lot of places. Like Prince and like...
00:38:45
matt
Oh, okay. You you had you have me or my attention at Prince.
00:38:49
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. I mean, he did some stuff on...
00:38:51
Conor Fowler
He's like a multi-instrumentalist, right?
00:38:54
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, he plays a lot of and he plays a lot of instruments. He's a great singer. um
00:38:59
Conor Fowler
Funny, too.
00:39:00
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, he's he's cool. like And him McGee like have done a lot of stuff together too, so that's why I mentioned him.
00:39:05
matt
Okay.
00:39:05
Conor Fowler
Interesting. I never heard of McGee, but I'm like in a weird music way.
00:39:12
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, for sure. No worries.
00:39:15
matt
Yeah, McGee is mk.gee, right? That's, I'm not.
00:39:18
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:39:19
Conor Fowler
Oh, so I have seen it.
00:39:20
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:21
Conor Fowler
I just am old now. That's that's what it is. is and I'm old now. um
00:39:25
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:39:27
Conor Fowler
I wanted to ask you about leather pants, ah which I guess I pulled from one of your sub stacks.
Leather Pants: A Divisive Fashion Item
00:39:35
Conor Fowler
And I'd be curious because like,
00:39:39
Conor Fowler
they are the final frontier i think as you uh as you describe them so i'm wondering where you are you pro leather pant anti leather pant
00:39:51
Jabari Sandifer
I think like I'm pro for sure. I had a pair for a while, ah from this brand called noon goons. Like I wore them at like years ago. Uh, they were like a straight, like kind of baggy ish pair.
00:40:01
Conor Fowler
hmm
00:40:05
Jabari Sandifer
Uh, I think they're sick before they had a vintage gap there. They were pretty awesome. Um, and like, how do I describe it? Like, I just feel like a rockstar wearing a kind, I don't know. Like I like, it's definitely not for everyone. And like,
00:40:21
Jabari Sandifer
I just wanted to...
00:40:21
Conor Fowler
You gotta be tall or very handsome, which unfortunately you are both of these things. So the leather pants are a non-issue.
00:40:29
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, maybe, maybe. But like, i don't know. I saw like, i liked like biker culture growing up too. So like, I don't know.
00:40:38
Conor Fowler
That's fascinating.
00:40:39
matt
Ooh.
00:40:41
Jabari Sandifer
So yeah, sure.
00:40:41
Conor Fowler
Like outlaw bikers or like just okay.
00:40:45
Jabari Sandifer
I'd have both like my grandpa rode a Harley also. Um, so like he was really into motorcycles and like we would watch like orange County choppers together and stuff. And like, there was like this movie.
00:40:54
Conor Fowler
Wow, dude, that's awesome.
00:40:57
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah. And there was like this, um, this one movie, what is the name of it? It was basically like a bunch of outlaw bikers. Um, and they were all wearing like, you know, like those leather biker jackets and like leather pants and they just look sick. It was like an early 2000s movie. You know, you know that vibe.
00:41:14
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:41:14
matt
Right, right.
00:41:15
Jabari Sandifer
Um, So i don't know, maybe you kind of stuck with me. don't know. I just, I think they're kind of cool.
00:41:20
Conor Fowler
That's so funny, dude, because like, I don't know, I'm not dogging you on the leather pants front. I just feel like you're right. Like they're divisive. People do not like them.
00:41:30
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. I agree.
00:41:30
Conor Fowler
So it's refreshing to hear a a positive when the status quo is negative, I think.
00:41:38
Jabari Sandifer
No, for sure. i agree. And like, there's some, You know, from this past season, like this these past shows that I saw, i saw a bunch of people walk them down the runway. You know, I had, I mean, Aura Lee had a pair.
00:41:50
Jabari Sandifer
LaMere had a pair. Bally had a pair like a couple of years ago, I think.
00:41:56
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:41:57
Jabari Sandifer
mom But yeah, B.A. was there. And there was some cool stuff. I don't know.
00:42:01
Conor Fowler
my friend anthony nelson in middle school he wore a pair of leather pants to school and people were so vicious about it.
00:42:11
Jabari Sandifer
Oh, yeah. 100%.
00:42:12
Conor Fowler
And it's like, he was like, I walked to school. So like the leather pant, who is more practical for the leather pant than I, like I have to walk miles to get to school.
00:42:22
Conor Fowler
It's fucking cold. And even still people destroyed him for the fucking leather pants.
00:42:24
Jabari Sandifer
sir
00:42:28
Conor Fowler
And he's handsome. Like there wouldn't been an issue with the leather pants. Um, but it's very like, It's curious, right? Because like it is a rockstar thing. And like when regular people quote ah quote unquote regular people are wearing them, you're very much, I don't know, you're inviting the wrong sort of attention.
00:42:51
Jabari Sandifer
No, fair. And like, honestly, i don't think I've ever seen anyone else wear them like another dude, but you know, i don't know, whatever. I gave it a try.
00:43:01
matt
Yeah.
00:43:01
Conor Fowler
How are they? I mean, so like, is it like leather can be quite thick.
00:43:07
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure.
00:43:08
Conor Fowler
So it's not that thick?
00:43:10
Jabari Sandifer
Well, I'll say that like the first pair that I got, I bought i found a vintage Gat pair on eBay ah for like, i don't know, 60, 70 bucks.
00:43:10
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:43:19
Jabari Sandifer
And those were like thick. like they rule they They could keep you warm on your walk to school for sure.
00:43:25
Conor Fowler
wow
00:43:27
Jabari Sandifer
um The second pair I got, they were a bit more like supple and like thin. um I would just say they're like more of a fashion pair. um they were But they were they were still pretty sick.
00:43:35
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:43:35
matt
Right, right.
00:43:37
Jabari Sandifer
I know, liked them a lot.
00:43:38
matt
Yeah. I had a like vintage, I think, 90s polo pair of suede pants that I got on eBay for nothing when I lived in New York and had them tailored.
00:43:46
Jabari Sandifer
For sure.
00:43:47
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:43:50
matt
And it was definitely one of those, like, am I wearing these pants or the pants wearing me things for me, personally?
00:43:57
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:43:58
matt
i think there's there's probably, if you scroll back far enough, there's probably a FitPic on my Instagram, but Yeah, they they were not, like, I'm very much, like, a utilitarian type dresser.
00:44:04
Jabari Sandifer
absolutely
00:44:10
matt
Like, that's the kind of shit that I wear. And although they should have been utilitarian, I just felt like a clown.
00:44:17
Jabari Sandifer
No, that's completely valid. That's what we got. it We just got to try it, you know, see if it works.
00:44:20
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:44:20
Jabari Sandifer
to
00:44:20
matt
So some things work, some things don't. Like, I love penny loafers on other people. i have never once in my life enjoyed a pair of penny loafers on myself.
00:44:29
Jabari Sandifer
That's completely valid. I get it.
00:44:34
Conor Fowler
but to each their own.
00:44:36
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:44:36
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:44:36
matt
Totally.
00:44:37
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:44:38
matt
So I think this was Connor's question, but ah we wanted to talk about FitPic philosophy.
The Art of Outfit Photography and Social Media
00:44:49
matt
Yeah, like kind of like we've we've talked about this a lot on the show, but like how how do you go about, you know, arranging a FitPic?
00:44:59
matt
Because
00:45:00
Conor Fowler
Cause yours are good.
00:45:01
matt
Yeah, because yeah they're they're do they're dope.
00:45:01
Conor Fowler
It's not like they're,
00:45:04
matt
ah and we you know like i'm I'm usually a phone in the mirror person or like set up a timer on my phone.
00:45:04
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:45:14
Jabari Sandifer
It's, I think like I It depends. Like sometimes spur of the moment stuff, like candid is really good.
00:45:25
Jabari Sandifer
You know what i mean?
00:45:26
matt
Right.
00:45:27
Jabari Sandifer
You're like, you're like pretending like you're doing something and, or you actually are doing something and you get a solid look at the fit.
00:45:32
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:35
Jabari Sandifer
ah You know, my fiance is pretty good at taking photos, so it always helps.
00:45:39
matt
Oh, so she's...
00:45:40
Conor Fowler
The truth comes out. It's
00:45:42
matt
Yeah, she's your photographer, essentially. How
00:45:45
Conor Fowler
collaborative.
00:45:46
Jabari Sandifer
I gotta, I gotta drag her outside all the time and take some photos of me.
00:45:49
matt
does she feel about this?
00:45:51
Jabari Sandifer
She's cool with it.
00:45:52
Jabari Sandifer
She's used to, you know, except it was like, cold outside and she'll be like, I'll hear some groans, but, um, but overall that's cool.
00:45:52
matt
No, nice.
00:45:53
matt
Nice. Yeah, she supports...
00:46:01
Jabari Sandifer
Like there's some, I think living in the city, it just makes it easier to take pictures.
00:46:07
matt
Yeah, yeah. Like, kind of, no matter what, the background's gonna be, like, somewhat interesting, too. Like, very interesting.
00:46:12
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, exactly. 100%. So, yeah, I don't know. like there's There's a couple of things that I try that she and that she understands at this point, but, you know, like where to position me in the photo and all those things, you know, having some...
00:46:29
Conor Fowler
See, it's embarrassing to talk about, but it's like, it is the it is the currency of our scene, kind of.
00:46:32
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:46:35
matt
I mean, in 2026, is it really that embarrassing to talk about? Like, you know, we...
00:46:41
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:46:41
Conor Fowler
I mean, i' it's like, I don't want to teach people to be looking at me while i'm doing this, you know? It's like,
00:46:48
matt
But why?
00:46:49
Conor Fowler
ah
00:46:51
matt
Why does it matter? Like, it's a...
00:46:53
Conor Fowler
but why does it it why does it matter what anyone thinks?
00:46:55
matt
ah Yeah, this is true, but, like, it's a niche interest, and we all, you know, we all do our thing. so
00:47:01
Conor Fowler
I'm not playing video games, you know what I mean?
00:47:01
Jabari Sandifer
I believe it.
00:47:04
matt
Nothing wrong with playing video games, but yeah.
00:47:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:47:06
matt
Yeah, I feel it.
00:47:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah, nothing against our legion of gamer fans.
00:47:11
matt
There's got to be some, like, menswear slash gamer collab happening at some point.
00:47:15
Conor Fowler
Oh my god, they're fucking Discord. Discord is the video game social network.
00:47:19
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't use Discord, so...
00:47:22
Conor Fowler
So there's a ton of crossover there.
00:47:26
Jabari Sandifer
But yeah, like, I don't know. It's funny because, you know, since I, as I create content, I still get embarrassed taking photos sometimes. I don't know. Cause it's like, i don't want people to see me like, oh, at this guy taking photos.
00:47:36
Jabari Sandifer
But like, we also probably just don't care at all.
00:47:36
matt
Right.
00:47:38
Jabari Sandifer
So I try to think about that too. So I don't
00:47:41
matt
I feel like the majority of people like in everyday life that we encountered don't really care about whatever is happening. As long as it's like, as long as it's not bad.
00:47:48
Jabari Sandifer
know.
00:47:48
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:47:51
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:47:51
Conor Fowler
right i'm not like whatever doing whatever bad thing that you could see i'm not gonna i'm not gonna commit to the record
00:47:57
matt
Yeah.
00:47:57
Jabari Sandifer
Sure.
00:47:57
matt
Yeah. Like the, the, the people that i interact with the most on a daily basis are the, the older ladies that work at the thrift store I go to every day and like a gas station attendant when I'm buying smokes and you know, like I'm, I'm trying to be pleasant and like the thrift store ladies love me.
00:48:17
matt
But, uh, one of them did, I called one of them sweet the other day. Cause she like hooked me up and she was like, don't go around town telling everybody I'm sweet. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this is, that this is, this is the most Southern shit imaginable.
00:48:28
Conor Fowler
oh that's perfect
00:48:34
matt
Yeah.
00:48:34
Conor Fowler
dude that's so funny
00:48:38
matt
But yeah, like, you know, taking pictures, like everyone has a fucking amazing camera in their pocket for the most part. And like everyone takes a thousand pictures of everything all the time. Like, i don't think it's, it doesn't have the same stigma that might've had like 10 years ago.
00:48:55
Jabari Sandifer
I agree. I agree.
00:48:55
Conor Fowler
For sure.
00:48:56
Jabari Sandifer
like great
00:48:56
Conor Fowler
And because I do remember like in the in the early days like of forums posting, people were like, well, one, because people were being eviscerated constantly.
00:49:06
matt
Right.
00:49:06
Conor Fowler
So they were very scared.
00:49:07
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:49:08
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:49:08
matt
yeah I mean, it's ah it's a much nicer world that we all live in in our little in our little pocket of the internet space.
00:49:12
Conor Fowler
Yeah. At least this one.
00:49:17
Jabari Sandifer
That's funny. Absolutely.
00:49:19
matt
Yeah.
00:49:19
Jabari Sandifer
i people are People are generally nice, like on the internet, to me at least. So, I
00:49:23
matt
Yeah, I think, like, clothing culture, or, like, our part of clothing culture is more or less very supportive. Like you it's not how it was on South or in back of the day or like super future, you know, like.
00:49:32
Jabari Sandifer
don't know.
00:49:38
Conor Fowler
like making fun of like shit in people's background you know just like really ripping people to shreds so it's good that we're past that
00:49:42
matt
Right, right.
00:49:43
Jabari Sandifer
a lot of interesting.
00:49:45
matt
Yeah, yeah. ah I managed a store on the Lower East Side of New York for a few years when I lived there. And like everyone in the neighborhood hated Mostef because all he never bought anything.
00:50:01
matt
He would come into every single like clothing store on this two-block radius, take a picture, like a selfie in the mirror, and leave.
00:50:05
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:50:06
Conor Fowler
you
00:50:09
matt
I think that's a lot.
00:50:10
Jabari Sandifer
Wait, what? You have the wrapper?
00:50:12
matt
Yeah, Mostef the Rapper.
00:50:13
Jabari Sandifer
That's so
00:50:14
matt
Yeah, dude. he He was like the bane of everyone's existence. I think I sold him a pair of shoes a couple of times. Like, he was he was always fine, but like, I just knew he was going to come in. I'd say, hey, how are you Like, you know, let me know if I can help. He would take a picture in the mirror and leave.
00:50:30
matt
And that was that was like once every like two weeks.
00:50:31
Jabari Sandifer
That's hilarious.
00:50:36
Jabari Sandifer
That's so funny.
00:50:37
matt
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of why no one should care. No one should care about you taking selfies because most of us out here fucking taking selfies.
00:50:46
Jabari Sandifer
That's so funny.
00:50:47
Conor Fowler
um So my final note is about this picture of Denzel Washington with the houndstooth blazer.
Iconic Style of Denzel Washington
00:50:56
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:50:57
Conor Fowler
You know this one?
00:50:58
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, of course.
00:50:59
Conor Fowler
I think you kind of introduced me to it. um Maybe Jamal. I'm not sure. But I just thought like, what a fucking. I don't know. There's like a lot of inspiration pictures out there, but it is like such an effortless.
00:51:19
Conor Fowler
I don't know. And he's like kind of a forgotten guy now, sort of.
00:51:24
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, I think like
00:51:24
Conor Fowler
Is he is he is he retired? I don't know.
00:51:28
Jabari Sandifer
he, yeah, that picture is incredible. Uh, it inspired a video I made like last year too, I think. Um, but it's like quintessential nineties. You know what i mean?
00:51:39
Jabari Sandifer
Like big old blazers, denim t-shirt baseball cap.
00:51:39
matt
Right.
00:51:39
Conor Fowler
Very.
00:51:43
Jabari Sandifer
You can't beat it. It's easy. You know, it's, uh, and Denzel, like he has some great, like old pictures that
00:51:45
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:46
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:51:54
Jabari Sandifer
you know i take reference from that I know some other guys that do too. he looked He looked really cool back in the day. He was sick.
00:52:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah, for sure.
00:52:02
matt
yeah He also always seemed like one of those just naturally stylish dudes. Like maybe he had, you know, a wardrobe person or a stylist or whatever, but like any, any photo of him from like the late eighties to the late nineties, you see, it's just like Denzel fucking just rocking shit.
00:52:09
Conor Fowler
you
00:52:10
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah.
00:52:22
Jabari Sandifer
100%. Yeah, he looks sick. He looks sick. For sure.
00:52:27
matt
So I guess to to kind of wind down, um you know, you're, you've been in the game of of making content and like in the internet menswear spaces for the past couple few years,
Future Aspirations for Sunny's Trading Post
00:52:40
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:52:40
matt
like what, what kind of goals do you, do you see pursuing, you know, for the somewhat near future?
00:52:49
Jabari Sandifer
sure Um, you know, definitely want to keep growing sunny. He's like, I like having something in real life, uh, outside of the internet, um, that no one can like take away from me, which is cool.
00:52:55
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:53:00
Jabari Sandifer
Cause like if Instagram shut down, like, you know, it's what it is. Uh, so I like having that. And then, I'm working on a couple of pieces, like clothing with some friends, like, um, to like just put out into the world and make it, you know what i mean?
00:53:16
matt
Yeah.
00:53:17
Jabari Sandifer
and ideally drop some of it at Sunny's, which would be cool.
00:53:21
matt
Okay.
00:53:21
Jabari Sandifer
a So we can have like a in-person thing here.
00:53:23
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:53:24
Jabari Sandifer
and um Yeah, i don't know. Just keep talking about clothes online. It's fun. And i like, you know, creating community, meeting new people, ah working with really cool brands.
00:53:29
matt
Right.
00:53:37
Jabari Sandifer
That's just kind of stuff I want to keep doing, I guess. But like in the in the short term, I want to build something of my own, you know, really the goal and like use the platform that I've built to like, you know, give it some, ah give it some legs.
00:53:42
matt
Right.
00:53:52
matt
Fuck yeah.
00:53:54
Conor Fowler
A man with a plan.
00:53:55
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:53:56
matt
Yeah, well, yeah, it's it sounds like you're doing good work, and yeah, I'll keep an eye on some of these. That sounds dope.
00:54:04
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, absolutely. It's ah it's cool. It's a cool thing. And I think it a it'll get even bigger. you know So it's dope.
00:54:11
matt
Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Well, Jabari, one more time, thank you for coming on and spending you know about an hour with us and
00:54:21
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely.
00:54:22
matt
talking about shit. We talked about Chicago a lot, which I hope you're cool with. ah But, ah yeah, good, good.
00:54:27
Jabari Sandifer
I love Chicago all day.
00:54:29
Conor Fowler
Oh yeah.
00:54:30
matt
Yeah, it seems like it. You know, like, it's kind of, I don't know. It's your town, essentially. So.
00:54:35
Jabari Sandifer
It is. like being the Chicago guy. You know, that's what people call me from New York. They call me a Chicago guy. I'm good with it.
00:54:41
matt
That's awesome. That's awesome.
00:54:42
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:54:43
matt
Yeah, we got to get more places than New York and LA on the map, man. Come on.
00:54:47
Jabari Sandifer
Absolutely. I agree.
00:54:48
matt
Um, but yeah, tell, uh, tell everyone where they can find, out what you're doing and your exploits.
00:54:56
Jabari Sandifer
Yeah, for sure. ah Instagram, Jabari, Sandifer, no dots, no dashes. Same thing on TikTok. Wear your pants break on Substack.
00:55:08
Jabari Sandifer
And Sunny's trading posts. Check it all out loud.
00:55:10
matt
Nice. Yeah. And everyone, everyone give, uh, give him and his pursuits a follow.
00:55:18
matt
We thank everyone for listening. We are at ApocalypseDuds on Instagram. ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com. If you want to send us an email of any sort.
00:55:29
matt
Even tell us that we're pieces of shit. i don't
00:55:31
Conor Fowler
Sing this a chorus.
00:55:33
matt
Send us a meme. Send us whatever. um But yeah. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
00:55:41
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Fowler at Real Connor Flower.
00:55:45
matt
And we will see you next Wednesday.
00:55:50
Conor Fowler
Ta-da.
00:55:50
Jabari Sandifer
there's