Transcript
Conor Fowler: Welcome everyone. I'm Connor Fowler.
matt: And I'm Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: And you're listening to Apocalypse Duds. Here we are in studio with a mystery person ah from Baltimore who I have known for quite some time.
Conor Fowler: ah Our next guest has kind of been in the whole, much as a clothing scene exists in Baltimore, has been present.
Conor Fowler: as far as i have known, right and as much as I have been a member of the clothing scene in Baltimore. So ah welcome, Jeremiah Jones. Hello, ah founder of SewLab, super truck owner, among many other things, amazing photographer.
matt: Yeah, we're definitely going to have to talk about your truck at some point.
Jeremiah : odd
Jeremiah : Okay. Yeah, we can definitely talk about that. Thank you guys for having me.
matt: Yep.
Jeremiah : It's ah it's an honor.
matt: Yeah, man.
Jeremiah : I really do enjoy this podcast.
matt: Oh, thank you so much.
Conor Fowler: And he really he really was listening to me because before the show, i said, you have big shoes to fill because of Mordecai Rubinstein. And he said, I was just listening to that episode, which is great guest behavior.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. how's How's your day going, Jeremiah? Yeah.
Jeremiah : Not bad. It's been a busy one. Lots of running around orders to deliver. And, you know, I got two new trainees on the shop floor. So doing bunch of hands on work with them.
matt: Oh, fuck yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah, so it's ah it's good. I just I just walked in the door a few minutes ago. and i'm in my house right now.
matt: Nice. And so Connor said you're you're in Baltimore. Are you originally from there?
Jeremiah : Yeah, I grew up in the county, ah you know, like, but the county and the city are pretty well attached. When you grow up there, like my prom was in Inner Harbor.
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : Every date I went on in high school is pretty much in the Inner Harbor. So, yeah, you know, I grew up around here. My grandmother lived in Baltimore. and Yeah, so it's my hometown.
Conor Fowler: We say it, you say it, which there is a distinction because I say Baltimore because I am not from here.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah, it became a point of pride after I left when I when I moved in. new I was in Colorado for a while. I lived in New York for a while, too. And New York was very my that's my daughter getting home from school.
Jeremiah : um Very.
Conor Fowler: Nice.
Jeremiah : um ah Yeah. Sorry, where was I? I just got distracted.
matt: Oh, you were saying you're in New York for a while.
Jeremiah : um
Conor Fowler: New American, Colorado.
Jeremiah : oh right new york colorado and we were talking about damn the train wanders fast um when when doors slam
Conor Fowler: No, no, we were talking we were talking about whether yeah we were talking about whether or not you're from Baltimore. And you said that you're from the county.
Jeremiah : oh oh god yeah yeah yeah baltimore yeah when i got to new york you know you know people ask you where you're from and and uh
Conor Fowler: And then you said that it's a point of pride that you say Baltimore. ah
Conor Fowler: Of course.
Jeremiah : you know so the the accent shines you don't realize you have one until you move away from home
matt: Yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: It's awesome. Yeah, because I like really detested it um and a lot of other like sort of working class white accents when I was like an idiot teenager. But now I'm like, holy shit, that like developed organically.
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : oh yeah absolutely
matt: I did the same thing with my southern accent.
Conor Fowler: Right, right. right right
matt: Like, I made a very, like, specific choice when I was in, like, sixth or seventh grade.
Jeremiah : yeah
matt: I was like, I don't want to sound like a hick. And you know, didn't really take that on. But then when I moved to New York, it actually kind of came out a little bit. And like, I've spent time all over the country and like with people, you know, I was in bands touring and like we toured with bunch people from like Syracuse and Texas and like I would pick up things.
Conor Fowler: you
matt: But yeah, it definitely comes out way more now and I appreciate it way more now.
Jeremiah : Yeah, I did learn how to pick up ah like the New York accent.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jeremiah : you kind of you have to You have to adapt when you go places sometimes.
matt: Yeah, for sure. For sure. So what?
Jeremiah : So it's okay to say but Baltimore, Connor. You can you can say it.
Conor Fowler: yeah yeah well i think new york is kind of a hostile place um and baltimore does not have that at all it's like if you wait it doesn't really matter where you are from ah unless you're from the county
Jeremiah : Oh, for sure.
Conor Fowler: but
Jeremiah : Right, unless you're from the county. Yeah, there are there is some weird county city
Jeremiah : tension. I've been trying to wrap my head around that. it's I don't know. It boils down to how this city is being run ultimately, I think.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, and it's a race thing. It's like a money thing. It's ah people have I have read sort of longer pieces about like combining the city and the county, um which would make an enormous tax base.
Conor Fowler: But there's not a lot of there's not a lot of interest in that idea in the county.
Jeremiah : Yeah, but
Jeremiah : yeah, i I mean, I get that. But at the same time, they're two kind of symbiotic organisms that need each other. I think that that's, you know, as as our economy and our our world economics have changed, it's a little bit different.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jeremiah : Like nowadays we can um uh you know get whatever we want from wherever we want but 100 years ago you know things had to come from someplace close someplace you know domestic local short shipping distances
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : so
Conor Fowler: No. um So that's a good segue into this question. What started off clothing for you? I mean, have you always cared about clothes?
Conor Fowler: Have you always wanted to be making clothes?
Jeremiah : Oh, this goes back a long way. So I've done ah i've done a lot of things over the years, of many years.
Conor Fowler: Excellent. Excellent.
Jeremiah : I've a lot of different careers. I've worked in kitchens. i've ah I was an EMT for a while, as first responder.
Conor Fowler: That's right. Hmm.
Jeremiah : um ah You know, I've tried a lot of different things. And one thing that's always traveled with me is ah the...
Jeremiah : modification of equipment and you know so it was kind of out of necessity that sewing became part of my um uh uh toolkit so i you know my my mom actually taught me how to sew very early first by hand and then later she taught me how to use her treadle machine um so it started out
Conor Fowler: he
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Conor Fowler: what is what is that What is that?
Jeremiah : so okay so a treadle machine want you know 1800s uh sewing machine has no electricity going to it you have uh a pedal uh in the framework below the machine that has a big flywheel on the side and then a leather belt that connects it to the sewing machine head and before there was industrial and home machines there was just sewing machines and these were them so it was in a factory or a house it was the same thing
Conor Fowler: What does that
Conor Fowler: Wow. Wow. Yeah.
Jeremiah : Now it's very different.
Conor Fowler: wow
Jeremiah : Um, but yeah, so you got pedal it yourself. So, um, it's just one big pedal and I put one foot at the top and one foot at the bottom, and then you kind of get it reciprocating and you have ah extreme control with that. Cause you can stop sewing just by stopping your feet.
Jeremiah : Um, so, but it, you know, the trade off is it's a bit slower. Um, but anyway, my, that was the first machine I learned how to sew on. Um, And I was making little things. At the time, my mom worked at a massage table company. She was head of the graphic design department. And she would bring the vinyl scraps home from work. And I would just get to play infinitely, endlessly, and make stuff for my friends.
Jeremiah : I was really big into rock climbing back then. So i was making lots of chalk bags and ah selling them to buddies.
Conor Fowler: Okay. And that's good because that's like sort of like, I assume is like an easy little thing to make, right?
Jeremiah : You would think so. um
Conor Fowler: or no because I guess because it's circular it's
Jeremiah : Yeah, cylinders are are kind of ah getting ah a cap on a cylinder with a sewing machine is kind of ah a bit of a game if you don't know what you're doing. So, um you know, but that's where, you know, that's where my education started um in terms of getting into sewing. um at this point in my life, thrift stores were my go-to for fashion. I was a skateboarder. I was a rock climber. You know, I was pretty much just living in vintage clothes all the time with a few like ratted out skateboard t-shirts and sweatshirts to top it off.
Jeremiah : And, um, uh, so, um
Conor Fowler: Which people pay money for that shit, really.
Jeremiah : Oh, I know God, if I had my t-shirt collection from back then, I, I'd be so rich.
matt: Dude.
Jeremiah : Well, no, i
matt: I think about the same thing, and I had a cousin that would give me his old decks, and I'm talking like, you know, 80s and early 90s, like Powell Peralta shit, and I'm like, had I not thrown those fucking away at some point, but it you know, God.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : Oh yeah. Yep.
Jeremiah : Bright.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Uh, yeah. And you know, the things our parents do after we leave, you know, well, where did that go?
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : Oh, I gave that to a neighbor kid years ago.
matt: Yeah, there's a box of t-shirts that disappeared 20 years ago or so, and I'm like, ah none of us know where what happened to them.
Jeremiah : oh
matt: I'm just like...
Jeremiah : that was $4,000 mom.
matt: Oh, God, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : that That didn't happen to me, but that happened to a friend of mine a long time ago. He he used to race for PowerLight and all of his stuff was in the garage and she just gave it all away.
matt: Oh, no. Oh,
Jeremiah : Yeah. That was like it was his whole career, his whole racing career, junior BMX racing career.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Yeah, i I think all of us have horror stories like that.
Jeremiah : Oh,
matt: Like, if you're all us you're of a certain age, it's happened to you.
Jeremiah : oh yeah. Absolutely.
Jeremiah : Absolutely. Absolutely. So, all right, so what was it? Back on the education, the sewing train, the fashion fashion express here. So um I went, um after high school, I was, again, really into rock climbing for for context. I would went out west. I um saved up some money over the summer working for my dad.
Jeremiah : Uh, bought a one way plane ticket to El Paso, Texas.
Conor Fowler: so
Jeremiah : And then I, um, went to, a took a cab 30 miles out into the desert. They dropped me off at a state park and I lived in the state park and around it for like three months in the desert, making a whole new batch of friends.
Conor Fowler: ah
Jeremiah : And like, this is my first time really on my own.
matt: Holy shit.
Jeremiah : I'm like 19 years old and like, uh, just living in a tent in the desert. I have like a job. ended up getting a job at this little, um i it was called Pete's or Pedro's depending on who you were.
Jeremiah : how well you knew him. So there's old Mexican guy and his wife and they had this little, it used to be a gas station, but there's no more pumps there.
Conor Fowler: Right. yeah
Jeremiah : So it's just a convenience store. And what they do is they sell beer and food to rock climbers and park goers all year round. And then they ah camp, they let you camp for like two bucks a night.
matt: Oh, whoa.
Jeremiah : So
matt: woe
Jeremiah : yeah so you know this is again end of the uh this is like 97 98 um uh so um i'm working for him for tips and food and uh free camping um uh
Conor Fowler: I don't think you could get that kind of deal now.
Jeremiah : Oh, no way. No, this was, this was a dream job too. If I could do this right now, I would, man. I would would sweep his floor every day. The food was so good to date. Best Mexican food I've ever had.
matt: Oh yeah, it's it's otherworldly.
Jeremiah : Like it was, you know, it was home cooking. It was mom making it every day. And I ate so good and I could, I was burning calories like crazy at that time. So I could just, I like, and the food never stopped. She just keeps feeding me. And,
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : So this was like um an amazing time in my life. i was really free to kind of like explore and do whatever I wanted. was first time out of the nest and just on my own, you know.
Jeremiah : So um I ended up meeting some people from Colorado that I got along with and they're like, you should come to Boulder and check it out. It's a cool town, a lot of rock climbing. You'll like it. and and so I road trip up to Boulder with them and I'm like, Oh, this is a cool town. I, um, end up buying a van there with, uh, some of the money that I had saved up, uh, old Toyota van.
Jeremiah : Um, you'll see there's a theme here. um
Conor Fowler: right
Jeremiah : old Toyota van. I put a bed in the back and, you know, futon and I made a little camp kitchen set up and a like a bucket sink. And I would go to climbing areas and just live in that thing. And so while I was in Boulder, I walked in, I went right down the street from my friend's house staying at. There's a shopping center and in the shopping center right next to Neptune's Mountaineering, which is like a legendary outdoor store there.
Jeremiah : uh, it was a shop called Boulder mountain repair. And, um I went in talked to Neptune and they're like, yeah, you should go talk to Boulder, talk to Ron at Boulder mountain repair. So I went in there and, uh, I had this really terrible, ah vinyl, uh, messenger bag that I had made out of the massage table vinyl that my mom had given me as all cotton thread.
Jeremiah : So none of the seams were very strong.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Right, right.
Jeremiah : um and he looked at that and kind of shook his head and he's like, yeah, I'll give you a job.
Conor Fowler: Huh.
Jeremiah : but wouldn't, and wouldn't agree to teach me to sew yet. So I worked there for like maybe a month, maybe six weeks before he decided he would agree, agree to teach me to sew.
Jeremiah : I was trimming thread all day, every day, setting grommets and rivets and cutting ah Velcro. And I was, I was a little shop rat.
matt: you
Jeremiah : i was just running around getting coffee around the corner for everyone. And like, So I was the gopher, um which, you know, i I put in my time.
Jeremiah : And once he realized I had put in my time, he was like, all right, I'll teach you how to sew, but it'll be off the clock.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : I was like, all right, whatever it takes. So I clock out at night, I'd sit down, he would show me a few things while he was working on his projects. And then, you know, night after night after night, that would happen until I was helping with projects in the evenings.
Jeremiah : And then, eventually I'm sewing on. So we, we did a ah mix of repair and, um, uh, production work. So there was a backpack company that we were working for.
matt: Amen.
Jeremiah : There was a, chalk bag company, a climbing company that we were making chalk bags for. And then there was another company that we were doing some like midline assembly stuff for, uh, the clothing company,
Jeremiah : ah company that I i don't know. i hope there's somebody out there that knows this brand. it was called Verve and it was ah created by this guy named Christian Griffith.
Jeremiah : If you can find any images of this stuff, he was about 20 years ahead of his time. The cuts, like this guy was so far out there on like on his his cuts and he was making climbing stuff and yoga pants like
matt: Oh, whoa.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : Before it was cool.
Conor Fowler: Which if you're making yoga pants in that like late nineties, you're definitely ahead of the curve.
Jeremiah : Oh, yeah. And this guy was wild, wild. He lived later. i ended up getting ah another apartment. I lived in Boulder for a few for like four years. I ended up living.
Jeremiah : I moved like right around the corner from him. So I'd bump into him all the time and got to know him pretty well. But he would like I'd see him at the coffee shop and he's wearing his yoga pants or yoga shorts that he made.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : that are underwear and that's all he's wearing he's got no shirt on he's just wearing the smallest pair of what you could call yoga shorts possible uh and a pair of flip-flops and then a little crossbody that he made um and ah like his but anyway his pieces were outrageous he was an amazing designer and we did a lot of work for him too um But, uh, so that was kind of the start of my introduction into industrial clothing or industrial sewing.
Jeremiah : And then that that point was when clothing really started to hit for me. Um, I started get into like, God forbid I say this, I was going to raves.
Jeremiah : Oh, um,
Conor Fowler: Wow. Well, the rave scene in Baltimore was ah very big, right?
Jeremiah : Well, i this was in Colorado. So I don't i don't know.
Conor Fowler: Oh, true. Yeah.
Jeremiah : i don't i didn't have the the fortune of going through that.
Conor Fowler: There's like club Club Orpheus and like those type of places.
Jeremiah : Yeah, these were like huge field raves and stuff like that. And and I got to...
Conor Fowler: Wow.
matt: Maybe this is just like my perception of mountaineering and outdoors people, but I would not associate raves with that crowd. Yeah.
Jeremiah : Oh, uh...
Conor Fowler: Oh, it just depends. I would say it's a spectrum.
Jeremiah : It is. It's definitely a spectrum. And, you know, despite the outdoor ah image that Colorado presents,
Jeremiah : when you get into Denver, it's, it's like, any other gritty city, right?
matt: Oh yeah, totally.
Jeremiah : There is, there is, you know, it's, it's all clubs and there are people there that don't like even look at the mountains. They're just like, I don't even go over there.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : I just, I was born in the city. This is where I live. This is what I do. This is my circle.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Um, and they just travel in the same pattern. So,
matt: Also, i don't i don't want to hijack this anymore, but I'm looking at ah the Verve website and looking at the the his the About Us page.
Jeremiah : ah
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: And this this dude reminds me of Bodhi, Patrick Swayze's character from Point Break.
Jeremiah : Oh, I mean, not far off You throw a little bit of a femininity into that mix and it, that would be spot on. Yeah.
matt: Nice. Yeah, he looks fucking gnarly, though. Like, you can
Jeremiah : Oh, yeah. And then ah insane climber dude was so strong. Like just,
matt: Right,
Jeremiah : Like he had arm, his, you know, an appendix is ah the length of your reach versus your height.
matt: right.
Jeremiah : So ah zero a zero appendix, like I'm five, eight.
matt: right
Jeremiah : I, if I had a zero appendix, my reach tip to tip would be five, eight. He had like a plus two or plus three appendix, like,
matt: Holy me shit.
Jeremiah : Yeah, like, so just reaching stuff, like, he just passed stuff that I need, you know, I have to take two moves, three moves to get through, and he's just doing it in one.
Jeremiah : So, right anyway, ah yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow. We've talked about rock climbing on this program before, actually. ah Our guest, Peter Totley, um was talking about the origin of rock climbing, like in the Ivy League, right?
Conor Fowler: Not precisely, but like them rock climbing in khakis, basically, at the at the start, like there was no performance gear.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. No, I listened to that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's so tough that's so tickling. Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no. And that's, that's really true. I, I, uh, you know, we'll, I'm sure we'll get into the more fashion questions later, but you know, you'll see, that's where I pull a lot of my influence from is, is from history, uh, you know, ah boy scouts and mountaineering.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : And, you know, when I was a kid, i my, um, grandfather gave me a crate of mountaineering magazines from the forties and fifties, like black and white printing, like, you know, talking about attempts on Everest failing and like, so, and the, you know, so in my mind, I'm just looking at the pictures.
matt: Oh, whoa.
Jeremiah : I'm a very visual, uh, uh, person, you know, the pictures just illustrated a whole, you know, a whole thing to me. So, ah You military stuff of course you see that in a lot of my current work which is hard to and you don't see so much of it at the moment on our feed but for for a specific reason you'll get into that later I imagine.
matt: Gotcha. Gotcha.
Jeremiah : So
matt: So can you give us kind of a brief history of so bad?
Jeremiah : yeah so ah all right so Solab is kind of um all right so so lab was founded in 2011 um but before that we started our business with our bike brand called holdfast um so back in the uh early 2000s 2008 2007 it started we incorporated
Conor Fowler: Mm hmm.
matt: Okay.
Jeremiah : um it is strapped that hold your foot to a bike pedal this is how every entrepreneur stumbles into being a business owner.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : ah you know i I had my sewing machine, it was my side hustle. I dragged that industrial machine into every walk-up apartment I had in New York City. It was a both an anchor and a life raft at the same time.
Jeremiah : So, you know, I had that thing running. if If I was in the photo industry, I was photo assisting and shooting portraits and stuff in in New York while I was there.
Jeremiah : But my sewing machine.
Conor Fowler: Interesting. Yeah, I want to talk about that too just as a note.
Jeremiah : yeah Yeah, absolutely. So, ah you know, side hustle was like fixing photo equipment for friends, camera bags, making new things for people. There was like I lived in brook like at the time I was living in park slope and there's a small polstery shop up the road and they needed someone to make pillows.
Jeremiah : So i was picking up fabric from her and going back and making pillows for 25 bucks a piece.
Conor Fowler: Dude, it's so crazy having skills.
Jeremiah : It was, you know, it was a hustle. It was in New York, man. I, did you know, half the time I was there, I didn't pay taxes cause I couldn't afford it. And I had to like save every frigging receipt so I could write it off after I left and make it up later.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremiah : So it, you know,
Conor Fowler: I've never lived in New York. I mean, it's like, I don't, I don't have the skills. I could be a teacher, but like, it just would be, yeah it would be so much.
matt: It's a lot.
Conor Fowler: It's so much you have to like, because not only is your job challenging, your life is challenging.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. But there's also things in New York that are so much easier. Like, for example, I can eat cheaper in New York than I can. I think in any city and bal Baltimore included, like I can eat cheaper in New York than I can in Baltimore any day of the week.
matt: Oh, 100%. Yep.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : And eat and,
matt: I'm sure prices have gone up like since I lived there. i mean I've been back a little over 10 years now, but like you know get a ah buck 50 bagel with cream cheese and a $2 iced coffee at the bodega and you're like, cool, all right.
Jeremiah : Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then, you know, there's like Chinatown, there's a couple of dumpling spots you can get.
matt: Oh, Vanessa's, I miss it all the time.
Jeremiah : Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can get a whole plate of dumplings for three bucks. And, you know, and then a scallion pancake, like that fills up a whole fridge, bigger than the plate for three dollars.
Jeremiah : And then you have like for me back then, that was like lunch and dinner.
matt: Yep.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jeremiah : we were I was golden. So. i I do miss that. I don't miss the energy of that city. I just miss the people and the food, you know, and and some of the stores, I will admit, like having 24 hour access to just about anything you want is pretty incredible.
matt: totally
Jeremiah : And on an international scale at that, like you need people.
matt: right Yeah, i would I was in Bushwick, like kind of the ass end of Bushwick ah before it started blowing up. And we had a 24-hour organic grocery store with a sandwich counter.
Jeremiah : Oh, ah ah ah Bogart?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's funny.
matt: It wasn't Bogart. I lived off of jeff the Jefferson stop.
Jeremiah : The Jefferson stop. I lived off the Bogart stop. um ah Just, let's see, i left there.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : Okay, so I moved out of Bushwick. We moved to Red Hook in 2006, want to say. six i want to say
matt: Okay, gotcha. Yeah, you were you were there long before I was.
Jeremiah : Yeah, but I know the neighborhood really well. And um yeah, there wasn't much past Bogart back then.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : um
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : There was just a few business starting. And I went back there maybe two years ago, three years ago, and I i could not believe. like And like Williamsburg, I understand. Downtown Brooklyn, I understand. like I've expected those things to change and grow. And you kind of saw it my peripheral. But Like, getting out into deep Bushwick, like, that, seeing that explode the way it did was really eye-opening.
Jeremiah : That was pretty wild.
matt: Yeah, i I think the last time I went back was 2016 maybe. Like I met a friend for a drink out there or something when I was in town for work and I was just like, this is ridiculous.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah i don't Yeah, I don't want to pay i don't want to pay i don't want to pay for
Jeremiah : I could never afford it at this point.
matt: No.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah.
matt: but My room was $750 a month, including utilities, so I got very lucky somehow.
Conor Fowler: it's not worth the
Jeremiah : Yeah, our last apartment in Red Hook was ah right next to the projects. It was 600 square foot railroad that we started Holdfast in, by the way.
Jeremiah : I had two sewing machines and a computer in my walkthrough closet.
matt: Oh, nice. Right.
Jeremiah : It was $1,200 a month and we were the supers, so we were getting a discount because I was sweeping the hallways and taking the trash out every week. um
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : It was such a dump. Oh my God.
Conor Fowler: That's hardcore, man.
matt: Right. but
Conor Fowler: That's like, yeah, that's like adult shit.
Jeremiah : Yeah, it was like, okay, we're doing this, but we're doing this to get out of here.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : Like, this is our last apartment in New York. We're leaving. We're we're we're going somewhere else. So... um
matt: I do think that New York kind of makes you become an adult. Like it if you're not from there and you move there, it kind of like teaches you how to like be a person in a lot of ways.
Jeremiah : Yeah, if it doesn't chew you up and spit you ah back out first, yeah, you...
matt: Right, right. Yeah. If you can make it work, like the first six months I feel like are the hardest. And then you're like, okay, I understand this.
Jeremiah : yeah yeah if you can find your click it
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, take, like, the walking in general for me was, like, I would get home, you know, from from work every day and just be exhausted from, like, and my job wasn't even difficult.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: I worked in a fucking clothing store, so.
Jeremiah : right oh the bike that made new york accessible on so many levels that changed
matt: Oh, I'm sure.
Jeremiah : When I finally found a good bike and started riding regularly, that just changed my life. And that kind of what snowballed into hold fast and, ah help build our business.
Jeremiah : I was like, you know, I had that sewing machine in my closet. was making stuff for people. and like, I'm going to make a brand. I always wanted a brand. I'm going to make a a bag brand, right? I'm going to make messenger bags.
matt: Thank
Jeremiah : Cause I'm this cool messenger kid.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : um
matt: you.
Jeremiah : so, I'm like working on bags. There's a ah shop up there that we were working with. We were making, i was making one-off bags for them and selling them. And then yeah I'm like, you know, I've like,
Jeremiah : I'm riding every day. I'm i ah ah buying bike parts a lot. I'm replacing these metal cages that go on the front of your pedal and the skinny leather strap.
Jeremiah : And I was like, okay, I'm going to buy good leather straps because I break them all the time. They're 80 bucks a pair, 120 bucks a pair, right?
matt: right
Jeremiah : And they're like leather laminated with some sort of fiber core in the middle so that they're stronger and they don't stretch and they last longer. I was breaking them like i was going three, four pair a year or something like that because I was riding a lot.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : I mean, I was clocking on some weeks like 300 and 400 miles a week.
matt: Wow. Were you writing fixed gear, or single speed kind of stuff?
Jeremiah : So fixed gear and geared bikes. So i had I had some geared bikes and I would go out and do long rides out into Jersey and
matt: Okay. Gotcha.
Jeremiah : uh, and do laps in the parks. And, um, I, you know, so, uh, and then, and then fixed gear pretty much, uh, was my daily ride everywhere.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : Um, so that's why I was like destroying those straps all the time. Cause I'm putting a lot of pressure on them. There's no brakes. So breaking force is coming from me putting resistance on the straps and on the pedals to stop the back wheel from spinning, ah through the chain.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : And, um, So that's destroying those straps quicker than normal. You know, and those things were designed in like the early 1800s, maybe even earlier than that, let's say the 1700s. It's like a very, very old patent.
Jeremiah : The. The. okay the it was kind of the impetus for creating the strap. So i you know, I gotta to be able to come up with something better than this.
Jeremiah : Cause it got to, and you know, I think there's going to be better pedals for this as well.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : So I just kind of started putting my mind to it and, um, I don't do a lot of planning. I don't do a lot of drawing. I don't do a lot of, um, uh,
Jeremiah : anything i just start i just jump in and i start cutting and measuring and sewing and kind of putting stuff together and then if i get stuck i get into the complicated stuff i start to work out and sketches and render stuff and take more accurate measurements but this was kind of a very organic process and kind of
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : my
Jeremiah : At this point, I'm kind of on my way to developing my personal approach to problem solving for this kind of work, right? Like this is how you break down something into steps to engineer it into something that's manufacturable.
Jeremiah : And that's, excuse me, that's like, that's the real challenge because nobody knows how to manufacture anything anymore. And that was me too.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : I didn't, I had some idea, right? I told you about my career in Colorado, which was up four years between two shops and two different mentors ah that really, you know, like was a start.
Jeremiah : Like I knew how to operate a machine really well. I knew how to work on the machine pretty well enough to like time it and keep my machine running without having to take it to a mechanic for the years that I lived in New York.
Jeremiah : um But, you know, ah
Jeremiah : i didn't really have a firm understanding of how to bring a product to market. um i am terrible at digital integration.
Jeremiah : I'm very much an analog person.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jeremiah : i learned how to do this work with pencil, paper, and scissors. and um And that kind of, you can't build a website with those things. So,
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Um, you know, I need, I need people that help with that. We had a business partner for a while. We ended up buying them out a few years into it, but, um, you know, it, that was, uh, the beginning of our learning process.
Jeremiah : It started with me making the first probably one or 200 in my little walkthrough closet.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : And they were very simple and very crude, And hardware didn't always match and, you know, it was based on what we could get and, ah you know, the limitations of the garment district in New York at the time. um the the Granted, there are great materials and notion spots. It's nowhere near what it used to be.
Jeremiah : um And the industry in general is nowhere where it used to be. So. ah There's a lot of problem solving. We ended up finding a manufacturer through a friend that happened to be in Red Hook, so right around the corner from my apartment. um And ah they made ah parachutes.
Jeremiah : um A company called, yeah, Ater Aerospace.
matt: Oh, shit.
Jeremiah : And this is such a wild concept for me. I'm trying not to divulge or try not to drift too much here. But the, they're,
Jeremiah : they, I don't know, they were in business a long time when we got involved with them. Their whole, they hadn't sold a thing yet, right?
Conor Fowler: you.
Jeremiah : They're going after one contract the whole time. So they just have a board of directors that are just dumping money into this year after year after year, keeping the doors open while they ah pursue, ah you know, these heavy government contracts to make these giant parachutes to drop you know, tanks and heavy equipment on a nickel in the middle of anywhere on the, on the planet, like with, you know, with such incredible accuracy.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
Jeremiah : So they're building the computer systems, but they're also building the air foils themselves. So they're, you know, it's not just your regular canopy shoot. It's like an airfoil, forget what they're called.
Jeremiah : but and, rare uh ram air so uh it's the ones that are more like a giant um uh wing right and they have cavities cavities that fill up with air as as it moves through the air and that actually creates the airfoil itself that's giving them the lift so
Conor Fowler: Oh, sure. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jeremiah : um Anyway, they had an incredible selection of equipment and skilled ah machine operators. And ah we worked out a deal where I could go in and sit down with their team for eight hours at a time for, I to say it $1,500 a day. so I'd rent the whole shop for a day, and we did white um with the money that we made from the first round of straps that i made we ordered a bunch of material we got it in i rented the shop for two days we went through all of their equipment and came up with a design that utilized their equipment um to make and we started making the straps through them and we they did all the sewing and production and we would do the final assembly and packaging in-house so uh
Jeremiah : that was going really smooth and uh you know built the bank account up really fast we started getting orders immediately for shops um and then uh japan found out pretty quickly and that blew up so our first orders to japan were like 800 units at a time and we were like i was putting them together watching movies in my living room um you know ah we I shipped my TV remote to Japan in a box of straps.
Jeremiah : We still don't know where. like I'm sure W is sitting on their shelf right now like, the hell is this? like Why'd they send us this? like
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : Yeah, the TV wrote remote disappeared that day, right?
Conor Fowler: What an artifact.
Jeremiah : So, um so that was kind of the birth of our our company. um And then in that time, like was saying before, that Red Hook apartment was garbage, and we needed to get out of there.
Jeremiah : And at the time, my wife and I were just engaged, we're talking about getting married, and i was starting a family, and we wanted to be close to my family.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : And we're like, well, let's Let's check out Baltimore. Baltimore's got a rich sewing history. like London Fog was there. like There's got to be like some other sewing companies.
Jeremiah : There should be mechanics and stuff. Let's build out our manufacturing in Baltimore. Just copy what they have at this place up here that's doing our work and then dive into it down there and start hiring from the labor pool that should exist there.
Jeremiah : um Guess what? All that left, gone, right? Like mass exodus, less like the last big major operation left in the mid-90s, like 95, 96.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : It was a London fog, shut down the last factory here.
Conor Fowler: Do you know Daniel Cohn?
Jeremiah : So yeah, yeah, do dr Dr.
Conor Fowler: You do? Okay, I thought so.
Jeremiah : Dan.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, because I was trying to make shirts like a while ago, like 10 years ago. And we talked to Daniel, ko but I was just going to say, i mean, he is operating in Baltimore, um making doctor's coats, doctor's jackets.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah, Essex. Well, ah he sold his company, so he's no longer and another company bought him and they may have even dissolved the entire operation that was here.
Conor Fowler: Oh.
Conor Fowler: Jesus.
matt: Damn.
Jeremiah : yeah Yeah, we are in.
Conor Fowler: It was interesting.
Jeremiah : Go ahead. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: um was just gonna say it was interesting. Like this guy who was a doctor himself thought all of these lab coats are terrible. And so he just bought a factory and started making them in Baltimore with like old sewing machines.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you ever got to go through the factory, but it was, it was really cool.
Conor Fowler: I did.
Jeremiah : I got, did he, did he take you in the basement?
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. I toured the factory. It amazing.
Jeremiah : Did he take you in the basement?
Conor Fowler: where they had all of the yeah, where they had all the old like historical stuff.
Jeremiah : Yes, that was my favorite room. And like, I hope he calls me if they're ever cleaning that out. Cause there's so much stuff in there. I'd rescue he has all the original tooling for all the old patterns before it was a lab coat, uh, factory.
Jeremiah : So we're talking when it, when it made, when they made casual shirts and stuff like that, they have all the collar tooling for die cutting collars and all the sizes.
matt: Oh, whoa.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : i want to, I want to, I want all the patterns. I want all the, like, if there's a way to rescue that, um, I want to do it because it was pretty, uh, pretty remarkable,
Jeremiah : and and so much of that stuff just gets lost. Like there's a, there's a, a generational gap from, of knowledge from the last, you know, 40, 50 years of progressive, progressive offshoring of our light manufacturing and sewn goods.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : It's, it's like, not only has it like done us a disservice on a, you know, ah you know, on a, public level of just like what it's done to our cities, but the gap in knowledge that it's left for us to get back to where we were even remotely close.
Jeremiah : And I know it'll never be where it was. There will be a resurgence. There has to be, but it's never going to be where it was. And I guarantee you most of the money is going to be in technology.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeremiah : It's not going to be in manual labor. So like if if the zone trades comes back in in heavy swing, it's going to be from a technological standpoint where where we're seeing
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : crazy equipment getting made that will, you know, cut and sew a shirt for you, which, you know, automated sewing is here, but it is, it is still in its infancy.
Jeremiah : Like it is, it's, it still takes a machine operator, a skilled person to change the bobbin, to look at everything, to see that it's going right, to pull out the seconds.
matt: yeah yeah
matt: Thank you.
Jeremiah : And, you know, so it's, it's, it's a ways away, but, um you know, I think,
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : The problem is we're not looking at it on a holistic level. We're not taking a... We're we're not seeing the forest for the trees, as they say.
matt: Right, right. I think about um when I worked in like high-end menswear, you know I would see factories and like Hurtling Trousers in Brooklyn was one of my favorites to go to. i was yeah Julie Hurtling, rest in peace, was just a gem of a dude and he'd been in the game for you know almost 80 years when he passed away.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: and like Contrasting their pattern cutter doing it by hand with Southwick using a CAD machine was like just next level.
matt: um yeah It was so accurate. And it was at that point, you know, still kind of like new ish and evolving technology. But like, you're totally correct. There's, there's been so many leaps and bounds since like all of the shit went south in the US.
matt: And yeah, I don't I don't know what it looks like if it if it even came back like 20% of what it once was.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : There are machines that are produced overseas that aren't even programmed really in English. Like the the control panels don't have an English setting, but because they've never had a reason to export it here.
matt: Wow. Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Jeremiah : ah i So the second place I worked at in Colorado, the second sewing job, I worked on a machine called a Mauser and it was really complicated machine it basically was like two sewing machines brought together and in the weirdest and most complex way uh it's called an off arm um so back then these were super rare at the time there were three of them in the country and there was one guy that worked on it he lived in california and you'd have to fly him in and put him up in a hotel to work on your machine
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : ah The machine had like a big head that came towards you and dropped down. And then I had an ah arm that tapered and got smaller. And the sewing happened on this side. So you had that thing like right up against your chest and you're looking around it. So you could take a sleeve, a flat piece of neoprene and wrap it around at the needles and sew the sleeve off the machine. And what it would do is it laid down a strip of elastic over the gap between uh the two pieces of neoprene right over the top and it would put four needles through it and so four needles through all all the layers and so on the other side you have this nice flat finished seam covered in elastic very tight it's going to stretch and move with the neoprene so you know and yeah so
Jeremiah : And that was, you know, 98, 99, something like that. Like I'm sure there's more of that technology has been coming into the country since then. And, you know, as knitwear and stuff has grown, but it's in such a small quantity and the demand for anything really new, you know, hasn't really pushed enough to get like the technology here.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : So, you know,
matt: Right, right. And i I think this is a big part of why companies like Patagonia and other outdoors brands that make things, Arcteryx, you know, i'm not I'm not as into newer shit as I am the vintage, like, outdoor stuff, but that's that's one reason why they basically can't make mean most things here, because we just don't have the tech.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. And, and ah you know, I would take that a step further. It's not just the tech, it's supporting industry.
matt: Yeah, that that also, yes.
Jeremiah : Right. So, ah you know, labor pools are dwindling. You know, finding skills is near impossible. We had to make our own training program and fund it through the city and collaborate with a OpenWorks and Made in Baltimore to get any sort of leverage to make something happen here.
Jeremiah : So.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : Yeah,
Conor Fowler: And you would figure that they would just be like, Not like beating down your door, but like we want stuff to be made in Baltimore. Everyone has been screaming it for a decade at least.
Jeremiah : yeah no, im I mean, again, this city was built on canvas. In the late eighteen hundreds this was the largest canvas manufacturer on the planet, suppli supplied by the Jones Falls and the Gwynne Falls, which, Connor, you probably drive or walk by every day.
matt: Wow.
Jeremiah : um these you know uh you know and there are dark sides to this like the environmental impact of all that manufacturing definitely took a toll on the waterways and uh and the uh bay but uh and the harbor but you know again this was you know every clipper ship on the globe at the time was had canvas on it from baltimore and it was milled here and then sewn here
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : If you're in, if you're driving south on 83 through Center City on the right.
Conor Fowler: Which they call the Jones Falls Expressway because it goes along the Jones Falls.
Jeremiah : Yet.
Jeremiah : Yep. ah Right over the right over it. And in parts.
Conor Fowler: it's It's wild, really.
Jeremiah : There's this beautiful old building. Now it's called the Meadow Mill building. It's in a floodplain of the Jones Falls, which is terrible engineering. But, you know, they needed it close to the water because the whole thing ran off a water wheel.
Conor Fowler: This
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : um So there's a mill race right next to it. It's a cool building. It was our first location, incidentally, here in in Baltimore. So that was built by the Clipper Company, and they made it exclusively for their sail making. And I believe this was just the sewing factory.
Jeremiah : I think it has like five or six floors. um
Conor Fowler: this huge building
Jeremiah : The huge building. Second and third floors have... walnut inlays in the yellow pine floors that are the pattern pieces to the sails.
Jeremiah : So you would unroll the canvas on the floor and with your shears, follow your your pattern laid out in the floor.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : So it's wild, right?
Conor Fowler: That's amazing.
matt: That's ridiculous.
Jeremiah : So now it's all broken up with walls and offices.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And that sort of combination, right? Well, it is, it is just offices now, but it's that kind of thing I think that is so sorely missing. It's like a combination of, it's like thoughtful engineering.
Conor Fowler: You know, it's like you're going to have to be cutting the canvas up, but we can at least make it easy for you and like comfortable, basically.
Jeremiah : It's always going to be shaped like this, so why not put it in from the ground up?
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's amazing.
Jeremiah : So.
Conor Fowler: i haven't been I haven't been up there. I don't know if i've I've been like down in the like food court area of the building.
Jeremiah : Right, right. it was a cool building It was a cool building to be there because of the history, but the corporation that owns and operates that is just big, big business.
Jeremiah : And yeah.
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah, they're pieces of shit.
matt: Yeah, these are the worst, like, my least favorite types of establishments.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Like, we have one here...
Jeremiah : um Absolutely. Absolutely.
Conor Fowler: The hipster for the court? Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
matt: Yeah, like there's ah there's a complex here called Pond City Market, which is my the bane of my fucking existence.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
matt: But the building originally was one of the like... i don't know the exact history, but it was a very old Sears Robux. And like ah they have like placards and stuff that tell the history about like...
Conor Fowler: You're knowledgeable.
matt: you know Oh, in 1944, you could buy a mule here. And it's like, that's so much cool that's so much cooler than the bougiest restaurants on the fucking planet.
Jeremiah : Yeah. yeah Yeah. i Yeah. That made me dig. That really made me like start to look at the history. um I ended up...
Conor Fowler: you very knowledgeable
Jeremiah : i Well... Thank you. i i ask a lot of questions and, you know, I and right now I'm spending a lot of time talking to people like local nonprofits, um city city offices, things like this.
Jeremiah : We're trying to push the needle here. We're trying to like illustrate that, you know, one, this is our history. Two, this is one of the most powerful tools in your toolbox that you are neglecting, right?
Jeremiah : And and it's it's very myopic for our city to not be looking at manufacturing and specifically light manufacturing as the leverage to ah rebuilding our neighborhoods organically, right?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Without forced gentrification, without, um you know, this is empowerment to everyone.
matt: Yeah. Without a bougie food hall.
Conor Fowler: I have long said there is, well, so like Under Armour.
Jeremiah : I mean, no, we can have that. There's room for that.
Conor Fowler: For example, right, the the group the quote unquote the quote unquote great Maryland slash Baltimore company ah founded by Kevin Plank.
Jeremiah : Oh, boy, here we go.
Conor Fowler: So they talked for years and years about producing goods in Baltimore. And they, for a time, had more money than God and could have done it and did not ever do it.
Jeremiah : Oh my God.
Conor Fowler: So...
Jeremiah : Well, am, I thank you for opening up this can of worms. Cause this is going to be fun. Um, all right. So yeah, Under Armour. Cool. Uh, look at all that leverage, right?
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Like our, our city council, our, uh, you know, our governor at the time, the mayor, everyone was looking at, uh, at Under Armour.
Jeremiah : They're like, yeah, look at this leverage. We can make a lot of jobs. There's going to be all these jobs that we can make. And,
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : ah So, okay, cool. They come in, they get that, what it, a $900 million TIF from the federal government to match funds for the reconstruction of Sparrows Point.
Jeremiah : um Okay, awesome. That's, wow, way to move the needle. Cool. So, all right, they come in, they start setting up shop, right? Like, okay, ah we need people to sew.
Jeremiah : pool who where let's dip into the labor pool well who has the labor pool like me and five other shops maybe right so and they're like oh look yeah you want some shoes you want ah some new you can't wear nikes here so we're going to give you some new shoes ah we're going to give you some sweet new like mock turtlenecks and a new bag and some gloves this winter and a laptop like
Conor Fowler: What are zips? Right. Right.
Jeremiah : Oh, gosh, I've never had benefits like this. And I get health insurance. Amazing. Cool.
Conor Fowler: right
Jeremiah : Like, I'm losing managers and bleeding managers and bleeding like, you know, any skilled operator that, you know, ah feels like they're like knows their self worth like, okay, so awesome.
Jeremiah : They, they go do that. All of us small businesses are left there.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Like, uh, what do we do now? Right. So I'm stepping down from running my business back to operating my business. So now, you know, and, and this is a trend, this, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, this, this is going to ebb and flow throughout the lifespan of your business.
Jeremiah : Um, but you know, we're, we had to absorb that. Like all the small businesses here that lost employees in that time, um had to absorb that hit, right, and and create more labor labor, more skilled labor in the labor pool.
Jeremiah : So, you know, and I will also say that they came in like, okay, we want to support local businesses and we want to support Black-owned businesses.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jeremiah : Like, great. Great. Cool. So what are some black-owned businesses? let's Let's swoop in and like see what we can do. All ah all right. So one small business, and I don't want to name names because i love that you know ah I'm good friends with one of the guys. like They had a cool bag company. I was making bags for them for a while. They were really, really handsome, and these guys were really good at selling them, right? Like just –
Jeremiah : too good at selling them. um And ah so we had a good relationship, but it got rocky at the end because they couldn't pay their bills, but they needed more product.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : And like my hands were tied to because I'm a small business and I don't have credit out the ass to pay for this shit. Like I got to pay my employees and I got to pay, you know, for materials. And, you know, I hang all that out on the front a lot of times in a job thinking that we're going to get it back on the backend. So if you don't pay your bills, I'm kind of hosed and this is early years for our business. So that's like, that's a tough time, right? So going three weeks without getting paid is hard enough. Going three months, six months without getting paid is near impossible.
Jeremiah : So, um but you know, we, you know I'm, I'm willing to work those things out. Right. I recognize that they're small businesses too. And we got to do that.
matt: Bye.
Jeremiah : Anyway, under armor is like, Hey, we got you.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : Let's like, we're going to support you. Here's, I don't know. They gave him like $50,000 and a space in one of their facilities that they opened, uh, next to the foundry.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : And, um, which was another failure of theirs. Uh, the So, ah you know, long story short, basically, they gave them enough rope to hang themselves with in terms of finance.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jeremiah : They gave them no guidance or leadership on how to leverage that money or use that money to, like, actually insulate their business. They gave them no consultation on how to stand up their own manufacturing, which they were really, really trying to do.
Jeremiah : i And ultimately, Under Armour's engagement, like, was... like big business cutthroat. So like, you know, one day Kevin walks in with a check in his pocket he's like, Hey, um, this isn't working.
matt: Wow.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Uh, I got a check here for $50,000. I'll give it to you right now, but you got fire everyone right now. Like, yeah, how, like, this isn't holistic.
matt: wow
Jeremiah : This isn't like, I get that you have to make hard decisions, but how about like, coaching them through that to that point, giving them like attaching a consultant to them that will help guide them through the process of, you know, improving their bottom line, which is really what it was all about for them.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : So,
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : so And this is not the only business this happened to. their Under Armour's engagement with a training program I'm good friends with, the people that run it they you know they set that up.
Jeremiah : ah like They tried to back that. or They did back that for a while. slowed down the development of his own building so that they could put it in their building. They committed to multiple um cohorts of trainees. And then on the second cohort,
Jeremiah : A week before it ended, they they said, no okay, we no we're done. We're not going to do this anymore. and We're not taking any more of your trainees. like Andy Cook from Made in Baltimore, good friend of ours, had to scramble and put together a job fair to find these kids' jobs because they were expecting to get hired by Under Armour right out the gate.
matt: Right. Right.
Jeremiah : So Ruggs getting...
Conor Fowler: Kevin Plank is an early Trump supporter, an early vocal Trump supporter.........................
Jeremiah : Oh yeah. And it goes without saying, I mean, that thing's a boys club through and through every woman that I know worked there left, um, with just like, you know, illustrating just the worst feeling of being there.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Like the culture of the space, which really comes from the top down, was, was, was just frat boy all the way through and through.
Conor Fowler: surely no
Jeremiah : And, um, and it just, It's hard to excel in those situations. I know I wouldn't do well in it.
matt: Fuck that.
Jeremiah : Couldn't imagine being a woman in that situation. So, you know, yeah. So i you know, I think Under Armour had an opportunity and just really just killed it, drove it into the dirt. I think they could have done that much better. And like, if you look at where they're at now,
Jeremiah : Like it's done. It's over for them, I think.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Like,
Conor Fowler: Yeah, they don't have they never made a single decent looking thing. So that's their problem.
Jeremiah : now no, no.
Conor Fowler: My aunt was their IP attorney and she got fired.
Jeremiah : and Yeah. yeah Yeah. it's it's just It's just sad because, you know, they came in, they hired all these people. i think they ran the sewing program here for like three years.
Jeremiah : and then let everyone go overnight. And then, ah you know, all these people are coming back looking for jobs at old places and ah no one can afford them because they're, you know, they've been trumped up by Under Armour and they're expecting a bigger salary.
Conor Fowler: right
Jeremiah : You're going to have to leave the city. You're going to have to go to New York or, you know, South Carolina, North Carolina to...
matt: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know if they're going to pay all that much more down South. Like Gitman ah moved their factory to Tennessee few years ago and like,
matt: You know, it's basically because Pennsylvania is a union state and they had to pay, you know, had to pay union prices for labor.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah.
matt: And here, like...
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: there's There's one of the oldest denim factories in the in the country in my like up the road from my hometown. like My grandpa, or my great-grandfather, was like the the head of the dairy back in the 30s and 40s there.
matt: And yeah, like i don't I don't know how much they pay now, when...
Jeremiah : Oh, wow.
matt: when You know, when I was a kid, like a lot of my family worked there. My grand, my one of my grandfathers worked there for like 35 years.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: But, you know, like the minimum wage here is still $7.25 essentially. So I can't even imagine how, like how much less it would be if this place, you know, existed in a union part of the country.
Jeremiah : Yeah, I. So, you know, that's kind of the big the big question, you know, like I'm all for unionizing this, but it would make any manufacturing, any soft goods unapproachable in terms of price like.
matt: Right. Totally.
Jeremiah : ah oh yeah.
matt: Well, I mean, you're you're also, you don't sound like you're exploiting your labor force. You know, like you're you're not a huge company. Like you can you can pay, you know, a living wage to a point, but but also like your employees are very happy with it.
matt: It's, it's I don't know, the like I'm a huge union supporter, obviously. I think we all are. But, you know, there's there's definitely a difference between you and fucking Under Armour.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah. So, and, you know, I, we, we do, we take, it we take good care of our employees. Um, and I, you know, what we can't do in terms of, uh, like say traditional benefits, I can't pay for healthcare, care ah just the margins are too slim for what we do and we're not at the scale where it's economical.
Conor Fowler: Sure. You're a job creator.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : um But, you know, like i'm I'm, a lot of my employees are young people, right? And I, you know, I've, I've hired over ah last time I counted, it's, it's somewhere over 50 people in the last 17 years, 18 years.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : ah yeah and
Conor Fowler: you job creator
Jeremiah : Yeah, it's and it's pretty cool. You know, all those people started careers in my shop and went on to do other, you know, a lot of them are doing stuff like ones at J.Crew, ones at Nike right now.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: One of them works for Ralph.
Jeremiah : Like, Ralph, yeah, exactly. So, like, that's that's pretty pretty cool. I feel pretty honored. to be the first step on those people's, you know, like ladders of to success and, you know,
matt: And it was really cool to to hear you like before we started the actual interview to say that you were training a couple of new people like that's that's dope.
Conor Fowler: you.
Jeremiah : yeah, it's, I mean, it's an all ongoing process. It's like always evolving. And we, I mentioned a little bit, we ran, with made in Baltimore and, uh,
Jeremiah : OpenWorks, which is a local makerspace and made a Baltimore as a local manufacturing advocacy program, which um started in the mayor's office of ah sustainability and then was later moved out of that to the BDC, which is Baltimore Development Corp., which I have a whole nother gripe list with.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, they're... Yeah.
Jeremiah : ah
Conor Fowler: It's a city.
Jeremiah : Fishing for minnows with a big net.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : It's...
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : as So frustrating, man, trying to pull levers in this city to make anything happen. You know,
matt: Baltimore and Atlanta seem very synonymous with each other because it's the same kind of shit here.
Jeremiah : I believe it. It's, we're kind of at the bottom of the iron belt here. And I think you're in that too. You know, a lot of the manufacturing practices have that survived were of this archaic operational structure, you know, and,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : sew lab is really different um i was i wanted to take this call there but i unfortunately logistically couldn't do it but you know i've got 3 000 square feet with probably 30 or 40 sewing machines in it and cut tables and hot cutting equipment and fabric cutting equipment rolls and rolls and rolls and rolls of fabric and materials and um that's uh you know ah um yeah connor have you been to our shop
Conor Fowler: I have, yeah, the one down by ah the old.
Jeremiah : Oh, by mill number one.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jeremiah : but the um
Conor Fowler: I guess you moved. Oh,
Jeremiah : Yeah, we moved. We're down on Preston Street now, Midtown. Y'all have to come by again and see it.
Conor Fowler: okay. Yeah, I will.
Jeremiah : it's
matt: Dude, Connor, go buy, film some video and take some photos, man.
Jeremiah : um
Conor Fowler: Yeah, definitely.
Jeremiah : Please, please, please. I'd love for you to see it. It's ah you know it's it's a messy operation, but it's you know it's it's an operation.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I would love to.
Jeremiah : It's always, always changing. You never know what's on the table.
matt: I mean, I'm looking at, I'm also looking at your your website and have been kind of periodically throughout the interview and like the shit's sick and it's incredibly well-priced.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : Thanks. we're you know we're a lot of it is because we it can be direct, because we're making it and when there's no middleman, right?
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : um
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : ah And we do a lot of like white label, like any of our tote bags, you can basically get rebranded with your colors, your logos, your artwork, whatever.
Conor Fowler: you
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : so you know But we're we're trying to be competitive because, you know i mean, Let's face it, our main competitor right now is is overseas in it in just about any direction.
matt: Of course.
Jeremiah : And, you know, ah granted, my materials are much different, but when a company searching for a promotional tote bag and they come across mine and they come across the one that's made overseas, mine's $12 and they're ah the competitor is like $3.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : three dollars
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : And you can't see the difference online. They look the same.
matt: No, no, totally, totally.
Jeremiah : When you feel them, you're going to feel the difference. And when you like compare them, you will see the difference in terms of construction and quality. But, you know, how do we how do we educate our consumers? How do we like this is hidden value, right? Like where?
Jeremiah : Every dollar that you spend in your own city that recirculates back into your community goes so much further than every dollar that you spend that goes overseas.
Conor Fowler: right
Jeremiah : Who's buying, like, who in China is buying from us? Like, what are they buying from us?
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Does that dollar come back here?
matt: A quarter percent.
Jeremiah : No. Does that dollar going to India come back here? No. Like, i like if you spend a dollar here in Baltimore on something that was made here in Baltimore, whether it's food or clothing or product that matriculates through the economy and goes back to you, to your family, to, and only makes your, your community stronger.
Jeremiah : Right.
matt: percent
Jeremiah : But like, yeah, can like, so, you know, like we've been talking about Baltimore and how it's like, that's current state, like you look at, you know, I'm sure a lot of folks have seen the wire.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : um You know, that was shot here. Those are real places. That is a legitimate thing here in this city. and It's not all like that. It's not all that hard.
Jeremiah : It's not all that brutal.
Conor Fowler: yeah yeah
Jeremiah : But my point is, when you look at those block after block after block neighborhoods that have burned out real homes, boarded up, as far as you can see,
Jeremiah : I guarantee you the center of that neighborhood, the center of that detritus where all those empty blocks of buildings are, there's a factory that died first.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : And that was like the beating heart of that community that circulated money through every business that was there from the dry cleaner, the diner, the hardware store, the post office, like every business that was in that neighborhood that supported them came from, yeah, all of them.
Conor Fowler: Taylor.
matt: right right
Jeremiah : Right? so So now we have these neighborhoods that are just like deserts. There's nothing there. And, you know, there's occasionally like a Chinese food spot or a convenience store or a liquor store.
Conor Fowler: definitely a liquor store.
Jeremiah : Yeah, yeah. um You know, and or a church or a speakeasy or whatever.
Conor Fowler: church.
Jeremiah : Like, um you know, my i I want our local government to recognize the fact that, like again, light manufacturing is the strongest tool you have. For every job you create in light manufacturing, that creates three to five jobs in supporting industry.
Jeremiah : And that's not just like the distributors that you're buying materials from. That's the people in the neighborhood that that impacts, right? So that's more than tech. That's more more than food service. That's more than any other industry on the planet.
Jeremiah : right? So why are we not using this and all the vacant buildings that we have here to rebuild and invest, micro invest in the, the companies and people that are here already trying to do this stuff, right?
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : Like I'm, I make the analogy, I, I, I look at permaculture as kind of a format ah to kind of, reimagine how this city works right like we have all these little native species plants but they're stunted in their growth because they can't break through that glass ceiling to get to a larger more sustainable platform which by the way is 10 000 square feet with 25 employees that is the level of sustainability for manufacturing anything below that to about
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : mom and pop level where you're working out of your garage or your spare bedroom is not sustainable for anyone you're spread too thin or you have too many people and you're spread too thick where you're spending too much money to operate so you know these shortcomings really like micro loans micro investments and let's like be honest, risky investments have to have to be made.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : And right. and And in a large, broad scale, we can't like invest in, we can't dump a bunch of hope and money into a company like Under Armour and expect them to come in and create 200 jobs in three years.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : That's just not realistic. It's a double-edged sword. They can do just as much damage ah as they can progress. So,
matt: Right. Right. And they're also a massive corporation.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: They want a certain profit margin, which is not possible.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : They have a single bottom line, right? and And I think that that's really myopic and ultimately won't won't serve you for very long.
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : If you're judging all of your decisions on one metric, money, money like
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : i So this is what I teach a lot of.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : ah We do some consulting for small businesses and I have the training programs and I mentor ah people that are starting businesses. This is what I tell them.
Jeremiah : i have um four bottom lines, the four P's. It's people, product, process and profit. All of those have to align in order for us to be successful.
Jeremiah : So when I'm weighing a new customer, like whether they're going to fit with our system, they have to fit all that.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Can I make it? Is it going to piss off my employees? Like, is it going to be so complicated that they're just going to be mad at me? Like, I don't want that, right? Is it going to give us a profit?
Jeremiah : Um, you know, and they, so they all kind of, they're all tangled together. or They're all connected, right? So we can't really untangle those things without having some sort of effect on the other, on the other, uh, variable.
Jeremiah : So, you know, I, you know, we really have to think about it holistically from a, you know, again, going back to,
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : permaculture like we need to create like a greenhouse where we can take and collect all of these little um you know small native species companies native companies and put them in the same space where they can share resources uh where they can they have access to things where we can bridge the gap between your basement and your 10,000 square feet and 25 employees.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : We can give you something to stand on there, right? The city has assets and resources to do this. They just have to put it all in one place. and may And make it a priority and real and recognize that the the leverage we have here, if we're investing in these little businesses, and people that are from here, right?
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : They have a built-in market. It's not a giant company that has, you know, global, you know, recognition and has to keep up with all that stuff. You're making like...
Jeremiah : a thousand small bets. And I guarantee you of those thousand small bets, more of them are gonna pay off than that one big bet over the longterm, right?
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : Like that.
matt: It's almost like ah collectivism is the answer to most fucking problems that we have these days.
Jeremiah : Go figure.
matt: Yeah, go figure. Who would have fucking known that human beings are fucking herd animals and we need the herd?
Jeremiah : We do. We do.
matt: ah
Jeremiah : Absolutely.
matt: So um I did have a question. do you still do Holdfast?
Jeremiah : ah Yeah, Hold Fast is alive and well. We just got an order from Japan for another $200. And, you know, now we're...
matt: I was just looking at that website also. And that like, i'm I'm not a bike.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: Well, I'm kind of a bike person, but ah the bags are fucking sick.
Jeremiah : Oh, thanks. We've got new ones coming soon. i So, uh, we started a whole, I started a whole bag line for, uh, for hold fast. It was going to be wax canvas and kind of bespoke. And, um, we're, I'm like, i don't know, a month or two away from getting ready to launch it. We're going to take pictures and stuff. I have all the samples made.
Jeremiah : And then one of my old customers, a company called Vela orange, which makes beautiful bike components, bikes and accessories. Um,
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremiah : Also a local company. They're here in Maryland and Glen Burnie.
matt: Oh, shit, I didn't realize that.
Jeremiah : um Yeah, i I didn't realize that when we first, like, we we did some work for them, like, 15 years ago. And before that, I knew them as a company, but I didn't recognize them as a Maryland-based company. I just knew them as, like, a a U.S.-based bicycle, like, very specific niche bicycle company.
Jeremiah : like randonne, uh, you know, French style, like, uh, backpack, bike packing style stuff. So, um, and, uh, so I, they got in touch with us all those years ago and i was like, Oh my God, they're in Maryland. That's crazy. They were in Annapolis at the time. And, um, so we started working for them, made some cool stuff. And then, um,
Jeremiah : Fast forward, I don't know, they moved away from the bags that we were making because they found a vendor that was already making a bag and they would just buy it with their that label on it and sell it to like that. And ah so ah fast forward, some of the employees bought the company from the original owner and founder and have just taken it in a whole new direction and it has just become like,
Jeremiah : I like that really blossomed into those whole new brands. So they came to me again and they're like, Hey, we want, you know, we want to build this, you know, a line of bags. We want it to be kind of bespoke. We're thinking wax canvas, natural materials, maybe some leather accents and things like that. And I was like, you mean like these? And like, he's like, yeah, that's exactly, we'll take that, that, and that. So, um, long story short, had to, um,
Jeremiah : we just transitioned that all over to their product line. And now I'm starting a whole new product line of bags for hold fast to launch in the spring.
matt: Oh, fuck yeah.
Jeremiah : So
matt: Fuck yeah. I will definitely keep up. ah i'm a i'm a I'm a bag whore, if I'm being honest.
Conor Fowler: I
matt: Like, I can't have Tubanae.
Jeremiah : cool. Well, I got you.
matt: Good sick.
Jeremiah : a
matt: Dude, Jeremiah, I think we could talk all day, but ah I think Conor...
Jeremiah : Oh, we haven't even talked about the truck or the cameras.
matt: um Yeah, well, I'm about to i'm about to ask. well we'll have to do a part We'll have to do a part two that focuses on not Sovab and your endless fight to build shit in Baltimore.
Jeremiah : yeah Yeah, you put me on a soapbox.
matt: But this was...
Conor Fowler: Your other many skills.
Jeremiah : I can go. Sorry about that.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah no no you're a you're a fucking renaissance man. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: No, it was amazing to hear that because I have never really heard it articulated by someone who didn't have a bad interest. You know what I mean? Like I've heard the mayor talk about it. I've heard people in the fucking city council talk about it, but like they are not assuming best intentions.
Jeremiah : How do I get like leverage there? It's like, and again, like, I don't know, not to, not to dive into politics too much, but like,
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Definitely.
matt: No, no. I mean, this whole thing has been political in like a real world type of way.
Jeremiah : yeah, I feel like our local government, Baltimore city specifically is a puppet show. I don't think,
Conor Fowler: definitely
Jeremiah : The mayor has much control. I think there's a bunch of white dudes sitting at a table in suits telling him what to say. And I think city council, they all have their own objectives too.
Jeremiah : And and I just don't, it's hard to get anything done here. And you know no one everyone's ah adverse, like risk adverse.
Jeremiah : Like no one wants to take risk. you know The BDC is like, oh yeah, you're you know they've been telling me for 10 years You're primed for something big.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : You're going to blow up. But we can't invest in you right now. You're just too small.
Jeremiah : Dude.
matt: How the fuck you blow up if they if you don't have investment and like or capital yourself to do it?
Jeremiah : Like...
matt: like
Jeremiah : We need to cut some new grooves. I'm on a record with one groove here, man. Like...
matt: Right, right. Great analogy.
Jeremiah : Help me out.
matt: Great analogy.
Jeremiah : Like, help me out here. Like, we... So you... You are the the institution that is set up by the city, right, to help small businesses nurture and grow to become big businesses within your city, right?
Conor Fowler: you.
Jeremiah : Well, hi, I'm a small business. I intend to be here a long time. i intend to grow. I intend to make manufacturing jobs, which is the largest job multiplier on the planet. What do you got? What can we do? Oh, well, you know you're primed for something big, but we you're just too small right now. so we need and We can't be looking at balance sheets. We've got to be looking at talent.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : We've got to be looking at motivation and drive.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : like How hard does this person work? right Show me that, and I'll put money behind that.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : right that's That's what we need to look at. like A balance sheet isn't what is gonna isn't what's going to change the day. like that That person's like personal motivation, spirit, and drive is what's going to change and like move the bar.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: And I mean, maybe I'm just, you know, a common person, but you've been in business in some sort of way since 2000 fucking eight. That's almost 18 years.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
matt: Like that is a sign that it's worth an investment.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
matt: If you're, if you're a person with three brain cells to run together,
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Right. I mean, it's you know, we've talked to banks, we've talked to, you know, we've had a few banks that are like, yeah, we can give you this because, you know, we recognize that you're a small business and I'm really grateful for that. There's a locally owned and black owned bank here in Baltimore called Harbor Bank.
Jeremiah : They are a great institution and they really went out of their way. And I'm not, you know, like I don't look like a minority business and I don't necessarily identify as one, but I am mixed race, but you can't tell by looking at me.
Jeremiah : So whatever, right? Like he went out of his way to support our small business when I know his objective is investing in black owned.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : And like, so he saw something in us, right? And and we we still have that line of credit that we run most of our operation out of.
matt: Right, right. Totally, totally.
Jeremiah : And it's, it's a great thing, but that's one, one institution that took a chance. Right. And we haven't dropped the ball and, you know, hats off to them and a lot of respect to them. And I want, I hope there's other companies out there. There's other like nonprofits that should be looking at that as an example and be saying like, okay, these guys are taking a risk. We should take a risk too.
Jeremiah : Right. And I'm not saying take a risk on me. Like I'm, we're on our own course and we're, we're like, there are so many businesses behind me right now, right?
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Like small businesses that start up every day in the sewn trades, in the fashion industry that need help, need help right now, right?
matt: Right. Oh, totally.
Jeremiah : Need guidance, need finance, need space. Like, Oh my God, space is crazy. Trying to find a space to run a manufacturing business in Baltimore.
Jeremiah : is really hard and if you don't have the means of buying it it's like you're you're looking for the you know a needle in a haystack
Conor Fowler: They're little.
matt: Yeah, yeah. And that also might be the first time I've ever heard anyone say good things about a bank. That's awesome.
Jeremiah : right yeah that's and yeah so there are there are good banks out there there are good you know like
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally.
Jeremiah : they They all have their strings attached, but you know and everyone needs to everyone needs to make their end of it.
Conor Fowler: i don
matt: Yeah. So they it goes to show that they don't always have to be a necessary evil, you know?
Jeremiah : Yeah,
Jeremiah : yeah, yeah. yeah it's it's It's really about risk assessment and how we're looking at that and you know what metrics are they judging us on.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : and you know You know the US government doesn't even recognize a small business below 50 employees?
matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jeremiah : Like, you're what am I? I'm nothing at that point.
matt: You're a tiny business.
Jeremiah : Yeah, ive my max, at one point we had 25 employees on the payroll. um
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : And that was pre pre-pandemic and we had ah just come into like some huge jobs and we started like, I'm talking 6,000 units deliverable in three months.
Jeremiah : Um, so we had a team, i was running two shifts, i had people coming in on the weekends to work. Like we were hustling. That was like, that was a wild time.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : And, you know, well, the pandemic changed everything.
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : Um,
matt: And I don't want to give that asshole any credit, but the PPP thing for legitimate reasons, you know, someone of whatever your scale or like a small business, you know, doing like a million dollars a year, like that shows that the the a lot of things are possible.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. PPE, man. that yeah We could have a whole episode on that.
matt: Right, right.
Jeremiah : Like that, that was a crazy time.
matt: Yeah.
Jeremiah : We, we partnered for a while. We were making cloth masks in our shop. And then after ah a while, we like, we started getting calls about N95s, N95s, N95s. So we started explore the process.
Jeremiah : We made so much money from the cloth masks and whatnot at the time um that we were like, all right, let's invest in the equipment to make N95s. Maybe that's our new thing.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : So we ordered the equipment. It took three or four months to get here from China. set up a whole operation.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : it was us and ah a several other Baltimore-based businesses of equal-ish size. We all went in on it together, bought huge amount of equipment and materials, shipping containers full, um brought it over, set it up, started the whole operation, hired people,
Jeremiah : Did our whole NIOSH approval ah work. We had equipment not just equipment to make the masks, but to test it. The moment, down to the frigging moment, we got just about, we're all but NIOSH approval.
matt: Fuck. Right.
Jeremiah : We were like about to submit the final thing for NIOSH approval. Every single contract disappeared.
matt: fuck
Jeremiah : And we were selling them at that point as KN95s. We could legally sell them as KN95s, which is not a NIOSH approved. Uh, it has the same filtration, but it doesn't have the same approval. doesn't have the NIOSH stamp on it. So, uh, so yeah, every contract we had hot local hospitals lined up. We had food banks, we had like, um, bakeries, like commercial bakeries, uh,
Conor Fowler: you.
Jeremiah : You name it, anything that used a mask in quantity, we were teed up to make them for Baltimore now. Like we were the largest mask making operation during the pandemic in Maryland.
matt: Man.
Jeremiah : End of statement. um
matt: Wow.
Jeremiah : for both cloth and and nia or K&Mask. So we're getting ready to submit the paperwork. Boom, contracts disappear. Our sales team member is like, dude, I don't know what's going on. Everyone's saying three m is back online.
Jeremiah : We don't need you anymore. so And then, ah you know, this happened across the country in every city.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : We were not the only ones. There is a gluttony of mask making equipment on the market right now and use like I can't sell it. It's taking up so much space right now in storage with one of our former partners from that project that we're going to have to pay a dumpster to take it away because I can't sell it.
matt: Jesus Christ.
Jeremiah : I. I hate it. Like I'm going to keep as much as I can. So but it's made on like aluminum extrusions with like generic pneumatic fittings and stuff like that. i'm going to take all that apart and throw it in buckets and hope that I need to make something out of it one day.
Jeremiah : But like, like that was, you know, it that everything that the government did to support that, like in the beginning was great.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Like all the investment that they made and that,
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jeremiah : killer to pull the plug so abruptly on that and not like have some sort of tapered um i don't know like i don't i I don't know who had the power to you know make those decisions but it could have been done much differently and yeah for the better could have stood up manufacturing across this country like i don't know some sort of
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Yeah. I've said, I've said to people like in my, you know, friends, when we've been talking about this, that like, that scared the shit out of the wealthiest people that own everything.
matt: And they were, and like, you know, the Delta CEO, basically like politicians on all sides,
Jeremiah : Yep.
matt: just said, okay, yeah, we're done with this and didn't think about the ramifications for people like you.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah.
matt: Oh, well, people people in general, you know, they didn't think about like, oh, how is this going to affect all of these things that we have started like trying to prop up and build again?
Jeremiah : Yeah. And you know, Fast forward today and you look at all the tariffs that are going in place that are putting all this stress on who? Oh, all the business owners here in the United States to get all the raw materials from overseas.
Jeremiah : That's not helping. That's not helping any of us. You just made my life a lot harder. You didn't make it any easy easier. or You didn't bring me any more business.
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : ah yeah you're just taxing me and at this point. And like, how is that sustainable? Okay. If you would launch that, but you, you know, you implemented something like the Barry Act that required a larger percentage of products to be made in the United States and verified. And, uh, and then that just started to drive business in our direction. That'd be great.
Jeremiah : Right. Or, uh, some sort of, uh, uh,
matt: Right.
Jeremiah : financial aid to bridge the gap where we that gives us time to do that ourselves um if you're taking extra tariffs like okay funnel it our way funnel it into manufacturing funnel it into small businesses to the people that are primarily primarily buying this stuff
matt: Totally.
matt: Exactly. Ugh. Anyway, to to round things out and lighten it up, guess, at the end, even though this has been fucking great. We gotta say that again.
matt: Tell us about that truck. it's It's one of the coolest vehicles i either of us have ever seen.
Jeremiah : Right.
Jeremiah : So I am um'm very lucky. It's a 1994 Hiace. It was Japanese fire truck.
Jeremiah : hiass um it's it was a japanese firet truckck um so Um, it's kind of a weird mix between a van and a truck, a pickup.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : So the front end of it is a four door van. So like, uh, it kind of looks like a Volkswagen, van. Um, and then the back end of it is a pickup truck with, you know, some framework on it that held ladders and hoses and a pump and all this other stuff. So, um,
Jeremiah : Originally, I was actually looking for like a Volkswagen Synchro or something like that. wanted to build a camper van that could go off road a little bit and get my me and my family into some cool places so we can actually play with some of the stuff that we make like bags and stuff and go camping and whatnot.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeremiah : had so ah
Jeremiah : had a partner in New York for a little while. And then that was a whole nother episode. We'll have to save that. But, um, uh, I was going up there a lot and I, uh, drive would drive through Walton, New York.
Jeremiah : And there was, um, this guy that had like a little, uh, Japanese import ah business. Um, he's got a car lot up there and it's full of like the little K trucks.
Conor Fowler: you
Jeremiah : And, uh, in recent time, he started to get all these fire trucks in there was land cruiser fire trucks. Nissan fire trucks, little mini K truck fire trucks with all sorts of different kit on the back that did different things.
Jeremiah : Some of them still had the big brass pumps inside that you would hook up to water sources and hydrants and things like that.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jeremiah : Some of them had hoses on them, lights, all that. so So I stopped in one day with a friend and just started talking to him. And turns out he imports them. He sells them at wholesale. Most of this stuff goes to like universities and large.
Jeremiah : uh, large facilities that use like groundskeepings to vehicles and things like that. he sells a lot of the like generic white K trucks, uh, for that. So they're just putting, you know, garden equipment in the back and running around the camp college campus, fixing flower beds and stuff. So, uh, so he's like, yeah, I really liked the fire trucks. So I started of get them in and see what I could sell them for.
Jeremiah : I started looking at the Toyota because I love Toyota vans. I've been also, that was another option, but the four wheel drive Toyota vans from the eighties are ridiculously hard to find.
Jeremiah : And when you find them, they're stupid expensive, like the Volkswagens.
matt: Yeah, yeah. The Delicas are going up there, too.
Jeremiah : Oh yeah, the Delica. So I have a buddy out in Colorado that builds vans, camper vans exclusively. And he used to work with Sprinters, but he sold that business and started importing JDM vans.
Conor Fowler: Thank
Jeremiah : So now he works almost exclusively in Delica. So he was trying to talk me into getting a JDM truck. And I was like, okay. So i was looking at his lot. He had a Nissan and then he had the Toyota and then he had the Land Cruiser. and the Land Cruiser was way out of my price range.
Jeremiah : um And the, ah so the high ace was around like 15 grand, which, you know, for a truck that has ah less than 10,000 miles on it, that's pretty good.
matt: Oh, steel. Yeah.
Jeremiah : Yeah. um So it's diesel, it's a manual, it's four wheel drive, uh, and pretty good four wheel drive too. So like the rear end of that truck's out of like a high, uh, Hilux, uh, or, or any of the Toyota pickups that you see around here, it's the same thing.
Jeremiah : Um, so, uh, I, um I kind of, i fell in love with it. I drove it, took for test drive, um, drove right side drive for the first time. uh, well, kind of the first time, um,
Jeremiah : And that was that was pretty cool experience. It's not fast at all. It is ah very, very slow.
matt: Right?
Jeremiah : Like top speed on that thing downhill with a tailwind is maybe 70.
matt: I was about to ask.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Jeremiah : Like Yeah. it is slow
Conor Fowler: Yeah, no, that's the key track. goes 50 miles an hour.
matt: Also, ah a question that i I probably ask people that I knew before that that have done right-hand drive, is a manual the same as a left-hand drive?
Jeremiah : yeah
matt: Like, ah the pattern that it goes in?
Jeremiah : Yep, the shifter pattern's the same and the clutch is on the same side as well.
Conor Fowler: And then we gotta go.
matt: Okay.
matt: and to Okay, so so not everything is switched, just the just the wheel.
Jeremiah : So it just slides over. No, it's not, yep, it's not fully mirrored. so
matt: Okay, that seems way less daunting to me now.
Jeremiah : Yeah, it really isn't that bad. i The hardest part is getting used to where your mirrors are.
matt: Okay.
Jeremiah : You're gonna be looking up and right a lot when you should be looking up and left for the center mirror.
matt: Ah, that makes sense. Is is it five speed?
Jeremiah : ah Yeah, five speed.
matt: Okay, cool, cool.
Jeremiah : Five speed, but it's geared ridiculously low for carrying like a heavy load.
matt: Okay. Right, right.
Jeremiah : So again, not very fast, but, um, goes everywhere.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeremiah : I have taken that thing on some crazy adventures, uh, in the last year and a half, two years, or a year and a half that I've had it.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: We'll have to get into it on a future episode.
Jeremiah : Um,
matt: Yeah, i we will.
Conor Fowler: I have to go...
Jeremiah : okay.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: I have to go. i apologize.
matt: It's okay.
Conor Fowler: ah
matt: It's been super fun.
Conor Fowler: I'm going to do this. Yeah.
matt: Anyway.
Jeremiah : Well, I really appreciate this guys. This has been a blast.
matt: fuck it Fuck yeah.
Jeremiah : Uh, and I, I think we definitely need to do this again.
matt: Fuck yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. We'll have to have you on again.
matt: Yeah. and And tell people where they can find your brands.
Jeremiah : Yeah. So, uh, if you're on Instagram, you can find, uh, find us at SoLab or at SoLabUSA. our website is, uh, SoLabUSA.com. Uh, we also just launched a new hat brand. Um, We're still working on the marketing marketing materials, but the website is live. And that is portraithat.co.
matt: Awesome.
Jeremiah : um
Conor Fowler: Oh, that's you.
Jeremiah : And then, if yeah, that's me.
Conor Fowler: That's you. i see.
Jeremiah : That's us.
Conor Fowler: i see. i see. Very good.
Jeremiah : And I'll tell you, a next episode, we'll we'll talk about how that happened because it's kind of a crazy story. Yeah.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah for sure. And we got to talk about your photography and stuff.
matt: we're so
Jeremiah : yeah
Conor Fowler: I mean, there's so much to do.
matt: Yeah, we're setting up a great part two.
Conor Fowler: There's so much to cover. Yeah, for sure.
Jeremiah : Absolutely. All right.
matt: All right.
Jeremiah : Just a sneak peek. Those are all the cameras back there. They're just some of them.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Wow, dude.
Jeremiah : Handful of them I made. A lot of them.
Conor Fowler: That's the other thing that he does, he makes cameras.
Jeremiah : Yeah, you know, got to keep the brain working. And it can't always work on Solab. It's got to have its own thing sometimes.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: All right, y'all. ah Thanks for listening.
Jeremiah : So...
matt: um We're at Apocalypse Duds on Instagram. Apocalypse Duds at gmail.com. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Fowler at Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next Wednesday.
Jeremiah : Thanks, guys.
matt: Thanks, Jeremiah.
