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Giving Flowers with Jamaal Tuhrik
55 Plays6 hours ago
This week, we wanted to introduce a new member of the Duds team. @Jamaal_Tuhrik came on board a couple of months ago to help with production, social media, and ideas to expand the show and, boy, did we luck out!
A fellow 90s kid, we explore his early days of learning to love clothing, the ways in which we discern influences as we age, dressing for yourself, gaining inspiration from the world around you, building community, integrity in fashion, and, as always, a hell of a lot more!
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Transcript
Meet Jamal Tariq - New Producer and Team Dynamics
00:00:00
Conor Fowler
Welcome, welcome to Apocalypse Duds, and this is a very, very special day indeed, as we say often. But today, really, we this will be our 90th episode, which is almost 100, which seems a little arbitrary, but that's like a century, a century's worth of episodes.
00:00:21
Conor Fowler
You could listen to an episode every year. um We have Jamal Turek on here, Tariq. Tariq, Jamal Tariq, and I fucked up his name, but I wanted to, I guess, I wanted to introduce everyone to our new producer.
00:00:45
matt
Yeah, yeah. the The third, well, I guess fourth-ish member, if we include Renato of the Apocalypse Duds team.
00:00:53
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:00:55
matt
So, yeah.
00:00:55
Jamaal
more deep
00:00:56
Conor Fowler
we met
00:00:57
matt
Yeah.
00:00:57
Conor Fowler
We met because Jamal said something irresistible to me, which is, The show is great. And so I immediately knew we had to have him on board.
00:01:11
Jamaal
I was like, I was listening.
00:01:11
matt
Yeah.
00:01:11
Conor Fowler
that'
00:01:12
Jamaal
I'm like, hold the fuck on. like And I'm looking like, look at the followers and comments. I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. this is This is stupid. Like, what's what's going on here? Like, this is like, people need to listen to this.
00:01:23
matt
Well, we appreciate it. And yeah.
00:01:25
Conor Fowler
and we haven't paid him to say that.
00:01:27
matt
Right.
00:01:28
Conor Fowler
And he didn't pay us to do this interview.
00:01:28
matt
Yeah.
00:01:30
Jamaal
I didn't.
00:01:30
matt
Yeah. No, no one is getting paid in any so scenario.
00:01:32
Conor Fowler
yet No money has changed hands.
00:01:35
Jamaal
This is not sponsored on anybody's part from anywhere.
00:01:38
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:01:38
matt
No, no, we're, we all just do this for the love of the game.
Scrapped Episode and Guest Issues
00:01:42
matt
ah Speaking of which, just to throw it out there, we had and episode planned launch um the Wednesday of this week.
00:01:54
matt
And we had to scrap it for reasons. The guest pulled a little bit of a wool over our eyes type thing. And so, yeah, just we don't tolerate bullshit.
00:02:08
matt
And we're going introduce everyone to Jamal and have a good time.
00:02:15
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
Jamal's Journey - Camden to Baltimore Real Estate
00:02:17
matt
All right, Jamal, man, where are you from and where are you now?
00:02:22
Jamaal
I am from New Jersey, um from Camden, New Jersey. So I guess I don't have to get into it, but I was born in Philadelphia. That's where my mother's from. I grew up my whole life in Camden and camed in the that's around area.
00:02:36
Jamaal
I'm little
00:02:37
matt
I mean, that's just like over the border, right?
00:02:40
Jamaal
Yes, it I could.
00:02:40
matt
Yeah.
00:02:41
Jamaal
So for my house, well, I actually do if I go back, I would sometimes for exercise, I would walk to the bridge and walk over Philly and walk back. So it's probably, I could walk to Philly in probably 30 minutes.
00:02:51
Jamaal
40 minutes.
00:02:52
matt
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:02:52
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:02:54
matt
Right.
00:02:55
Conor Fowler
still close.
00:02:55
matt
All right. Yeah. Still very close.
00:02:58
Jamaal
yeah I definitely recommend if you're ever in the area, a walk over the bridge. mean, you've probably all been on bridges, but it's just cool to walk over and just, you know, you can literally walk and get coffee. There's a couple of vintage shops literally right over the bridge. You can get breakfast.
00:03:11
Jamaal
It's just a nice, nice little experience.
Weather Influences Fashion Creativity
00:03:13
matt
Oh, hell yeah.
00:03:14
Jamaal
Ben Franklin Bridge.
00:03:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah. And I've been, I've spent some time in New Jersey. Like I've been to Newark and Jersey city and I don't know. I mean, it's, uh, It's like a little, it's like a little place with a lot of places in it, of course.
00:03:28
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:03:29
Conor Fowler
So.
00:03:30
matt
Yeah, i think I think Jersey gets to like a worse rap than it really deserves because I've yeah um spent some time there.
00:03:37
Jamaal
yeah
00:03:38
matt
It's it's fun.
00:03:39
Jamaal
The armpit of America.
00:03:40
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:03:41
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:41
Conor Fowler
Yeah. I haven't. No, let's see. That is Florida.
00:03:44
Jamaal
No, I thought it was, that's Florida?
00:03:47
Conor Fowler
I think it depends who you ask, but.
00:03:49
matt
Yeah, yeah. I would say if for Florida is way worse than Jersey, in my humble opinion.
00:03:53
Conor Fowler
I would agree. I would agree. I mean, you can like, they're kind of similar, you know, they're like, uh,
00:04:01
matt
Right, right.
00:04:04
matt
Well, you got a lot of Jersey transplants and snowbirds in Florida, so.
00:04:07
Jamaal
Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:04:08
Conor Fowler
well, it's like an aspirationally rich place.
00:04:09
matt
Right.
00:04:11
Conor Fowler
You know, it's like, people are not super rich.
00:04:12
matt
Right.
00:04:15
Conor Fowler
They're trying to be, which I think creates a certain climate.
00:04:16
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:04:17
matt
Right.
00:04:20
matt
Totally, totally. And so, yeah from Camden, um what's, what's the journey been like to now?
First House to Triplex - Real Estate Moves
00:04:27
Jamaal
Um, so I bought my, when I bought my first house, um, in the suburbs, it wasn't in Camden. I, you know, moved out a little bit and bought the house, fixed it up, sold it. And I was like, you know, i want to come to a place, um, where I lived is Camden is ah black city.
00:04:45
Jamaal
I'm like, I want to come to a different city and invest in real estate. And so I came down here and bought a triplex with the money I made from the house. And that brought me to Baltimore. And I've been there since here, since,
00:04:57
Jamaal
2020, I've been down here. think it's one the...
00:05:03
matt
All right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:04
Jamaal
yeah
00:05:04
matt
I mean, I've, we've
The Unique Charm of Baltimore
00:05:06
matt
talked about it a lot. Connor loves Baltimore. I've very much enjoy and and dig Baltimore's vibe too. So thank you.
00:05:12
Jamaal
aye i think it's one of the best small big cities in the in the country. I haven't been to them all, but it has this packed ton ah full of of culture and arts and just all, whatever thing you could want from a city, obviously New York and you know other places, but like whatever you could want from a city, you could find it here.
00:05:29
Conor Fowler
San Francisco, whatever.
00:05:34
Conor Fowler
We have own symphony orchestra.
00:05:37
Jamaal
Right, right.
00:05:37
Conor Fowler
ah feel like that's not like, uh, I don't know what else, what else is a similar size city? Like Toledo, Ohio doesn't have a symphony orchestra.
00:05:46
Jamaal
I would imagine that.
00:05:47
matt
Right.
00:05:47
Conor Fowler
There's a lot of old money in Baltimore that I think creates a lot of art, a lot of culture.
00:05:57
Conor Fowler
it's like, a that's like a super double-edged sword, right?
00:05:57
Jamaal
I enjoy it.
00:05:59
Conor Fowler
Like philanthropy, as they call it.
00:06:02
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:06:03
matt
Right. Right.
00:06:03
Conor Fowler
But that's another, that's another bird.
00:06:03
matt
Yeah.
00:06:06
Conor Fowler
ah What about the weather in Baltimore at the moment?
00:06:12
Jamaal
Today,
00:06:12
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:06:13
Jamaal
It's chillier than it should be. I think it's only going to be like 50 or in the 40s today.
00:06:16
Conor Fowler
It's fucking freezing.
00:06:18
Jamaal
So it's fifty or in know in the forty s today
00:06:21
Conor Fowler
Oh my God. No, it's 42 and windy, super windy. So it's like,
00:06:25
Jamaal
so it
00:06:26
Conor Fowler
This is like the kind of weather where you need to wear an outfit specifically.
00:06:32
Jamaal
for the weather. You can't just put stuff together. You have to be considerate of the weather, which I like, because I think in terms of putting clothes on, I think that is like, not the the top of the triangle, but that to me is the culmination of how creative you are.
00:06:49
Jamaal
If it's hot as hell, if it's cold, you can still, whatever your vibe is, present your vibe. No matter what the temperature is, rain and cold snow, and you can still do your thing. So I very much embrace
00:07:00
Conor Fowler
I think cold is pretty easy.
00:07:02
Jamaal
Cold is easy, yeah. But cold and rainy, that's the bean.
00:07:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:07:08
matt
Yeah, I warm, yeah, it's a little bit warmer here today, but our, our temperature in Atlanta was about like that yesterday.
00:07:08
Conor Fowler
Which baneful weather.
00:07:17
matt
I got to wear my fishtail for the first time this year, or for the first time for this fall, winter.
00:07:23
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I haven't broken mine out yet.
00:07:24
Jamaal
I think I might be the only one that doesn't... I don't have a fishtail parker.
00:07:28
matt
You, you need to get on the, yeah, that's, the that's like the officially on or the ah unofficially official, uh, apocalypse duds garment.
00:07:28
Conor Fowler
You got to get one if you're going to be a part of this thing. I mean, it's...
00:07:36
Jamaal
Yeah. Yeah, i don't i don't I don't have one. i do I do love a long, long military jacket. i mean, so how how are they in terms of, like, it's not a warm jacket.
00:07:45
matt
well Well, if you put, you can put a liner in it and like I use the the original M51 liners are heavy as shit.
00:07:47
Jamaal
It's more of like 50 degree tops. Oh, okay.
00:07:58
matt
they They weigh, yeah.
00:07:58
Conor Fowler
matt advised me a Matt advised me buying it. And of course I bought it anyway. And it's like, it must weigh 15 pounds.
00:08:06
Jamaal
because I've seen those because I have just a regular M51 and it has the buttons.
00:08:06
matt
Yeah.
00:08:11
Jamaal
I'm like, maybe I'll buy it one day. So you said, don't do it.
00:08:12
matt
Yeah. So, though Well, those, yeah.
00:08:15
Conor Fowler
The liner is warm.
00:08:17
matt
Like the liner is very warm.
00:08:18
Conor Fowler
Very, very warm.
00:08:19
matt
For me, I use a Vietnam liner because they're interchangeable and it's the but like quilted nylon.
00:08:23
Jamaal
Yeah. That's the quilted one. okay
00:08:26
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:27
Conor Fowler
This is where the this is where the the truths of the show come out, right?
00:08:31
matt
Yeah.
00:08:31
Conor Fowler
like
00:08:31
Jamaal
I think Matt, you're talking about the kind, like, not, it doesn't, it has like a ah sheepskin cream look to it, kind of like, okay.
00:08:38
matt
Well, that's the first version. And then the second one is like a wool cotton terry cloth. That's a little, a little bit lighter.
00:08:43
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:08:45
matt
um I think this would,
00:08:46
Conor Fowler
They have like a sateen one too, right? Like ah like an olive sateen one that has like S quilting on it.
00:08:54
matt
ah uh, I don't know what you're talking about, but the only quilted ones I know of are, are the nylon quilted, like the,
00:08:59
Conor Fowler
I feel like I've seen that as a liner, like as a jacket liner.
00:09:06
Jamaal
i think I think you guys are talking about the same thing, I feel like.
00:09:08
matt
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.
00:09:09
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:09:10
matt
It's all, it's all abstract.
00:09:11
Conor Fowler
the again.
00:09:12
matt
Yes.
00:09:12
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:09:14
Conor Fowler
that's the like ah that's the show again
00:09:18
matt
That is the show.
00:09:20
Jamaal
The leather, actually don't know what I'm going wear now because I was just going wear this, but this is not good for it.
00:09:20
matt
Uh,
00:09:25
Jamaal
It's just a jean jacket.
00:09:26
Conor Fowler
Oh, no, you can't do the denim jacket in this shit. I mean...
00:09:29
Jamaal
So I got to find a medium coat to wear that's longer than this, so whatevs.
00:09:35
Conor Fowler
i would advise the fishtail parka, but it would be weird if we were all wearing one. It would very much look like we were preparing work preparing for something bad.
00:09:41
Jamaal
Yeah, I know. That would be interesting. Like, what's more these guys? Did you plan this? No, we didn't plan this. We just like Fishtail Parkers.
00:09:49
Conor Fowler
Right, exactly.
00:09:50
matt
Right.
00:09:50
Conor Fowler
It's like the Olive Drab Clan.
00:09:50
matt
Right. we' We're the mods. ah
00:09:54
Conor Fowler
Right. Right.
Evolving Fashion Sense and Influences
00:09:56
matt
So growing up in in New Jersey, um the you know, what kind of clothing did you did you see around you? What kind of like were the first, you know, things that you were noticing when you started to get into clothes?
00:10:10
Jamaal
I kind of got, I guess I have a different, different way to answer that because I've only recently, i've always liked clothes. I've always liked them, but taking them as serious is fairly recent.
00:10:22
Jamaal
When I was young, it was mostly like streetwear because I'll be 39.
00:10:25
matt
Right.
00:10:29
Jamaal
So when I was younger, it was like the early nineties. So was a streetwear brand was Maurice Malone.
00:10:33
matt
Oh yeah.
00:10:37
Jamaal
Um, that was a streetwear brand and most of the popular stuff. I think FUBU was, was big then.
00:10:42
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:10:43
matt
Starter jackets.
00:10:45
Jamaal
Starter jackets, I think Conor may know, like Nike boots in that DC area.
00:10:47
Conor Fowler
South Pole.
00:10:50
Jamaal
and we We had those for a bit. So just very much, I guess you would you assume from whatever was you would see on TV from nineteen ninety s hip hop.
00:11:00
matt
Yeah,
00:11:00
Jamaal
and to thought That was probably what baggy jeans, boots, you know. But, I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't have, we had food all of time. I didn't have, we didn't have a lot of money. So I wasn't having a lot of that stuff.
00:11:11
Jamaal
I had a couple things, couple pair of jeans and a handful of shirts and a couple pair of shoes.
00:11:13
matt
yeah. yeah
00:11:17
Jamaal
But it was like the shoe weapon.
00:11:17
Conor Fowler
And there's like, and one there's like other like sort of knockoff brands, all of that stuff.
00:11:20
Jamaal
Yes. And one. Yeah, and one was one. Yeah. I specifically remember, ah I think I must have been like 11 or 12 or something. i played football.
00:11:33
Jamaal
And I played football with guys who were a year or two older. And when you're 12, 12 to 14 is a very large gap, even though it's only two years.
00:11:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:11:39
matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:11:42
Jamaal
So their guys are a little bigger, mature. They're probably talking about girls. I'm talking about girls, too, but like not not going on dates and stuff or that stuff.
00:11:48
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:11:49
Jamaal
And I remember just having this long sleeve yellow Maurice Malone shirt with a label on it and some black jeans. And I was like, I look really cool. And I always think about that. Like, I don't know if I really did look that cool.
00:11:59
Conor Fowler
oh
00:12:01
Jamaal
It
00:12:01
Conor Fowler
but So that's a perfect, that's perfectly into the next question. Um, do you remember the first article of clothing, garment, whatever, that made you feel different, that made you feel special?
00:12:16
Jamaal
made me feel special. I think I'm like a late bloomer. So i think I think I still have it. This was probably maybe 10 years ago. I got from Lanza and Canvas.
00:12:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:12:28
Jamaal
I found, found ah when I lost weight, actually, y I had to double back. I was like At one point, to like 250.
00:12:37
Jamaal
And yeah, I was, you know, I'm an evenly distributed weight guy, but that's a lot of pounds.
00:12:37
matt
Dang, yeah.
00:12:42
matt
Right, right.
00:12:42
Jamaal
over And I think I lost weight. And at that point I was buying everything as slim as possible. I was buying it. Like I don't, if it was like shredding, I don't care if I can button it.
00:12:50
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:12:53
Jamaal
So I was doing that and I started buying some chinos from Dockers and they were slim fit and they were, they were slim. They were very slim, but I thought I looked sharp as hell.
00:13:05
Jamaal
I really, really, I hadn't been like,
00:13:05
matt
Okay.
00:13:07
Jamaal
A burgundy color, a red color, a blue, a khaki, a dark khaki. I remember really, really loving those. I still love pants. I think that's my favorite thing is pants, but I remember those dockers khakis. I had like five colors of the exact same pants.
00:13:23
matt
right
00:13:23
Conor Fowler
The D the D one, I feel like that was their like sizing nomenclature at that time was like D one D two D three in terms of like tapering.
00:13:31
Jamaal
D1? one Yeah, i don't i don't remember. I think they had regular sizes. They were...
00:13:38
Conor Fowler
Well, I mean like in terms of the fits, not like 33 by 30, but like,
00:13:39
Jamaal
Oh, yeah, it was, yeah, it was slim tapered.
00:13:44
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:13:44
matt
Yeah. Yeah. It was such a big deal when Docker started making like
00:13:45
Jamaal
but
00:13:49
matt
you know, kind of trendy pants in the like 2010s. It's so funny so funny to me.
00:13:53
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:13:53
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:13:55
Conor Fowler
I remember that.
00:13:55
Jamaal
but They were so small. All my clothes were so small. I'm not ashamed because it happens and you go through stuff, but like, everything was so small.
00:14:03
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:04
Jamaal
Why?
00:14:05
Conor Fowler
But that's just, yeah.
00:14:05
matt
we are We all did it.
00:14:06
Conor Fowler
I mean, it just, like, you couldn't have gone back in time, right?
00:14:08
Jamaal
yeah
00:14:11
Conor Fowler
And said, like, whatever, here's, like, an iPad with, like, a bunch of, like, images on it. Like, here's people, like, not wearing that shit anymore. No one would believe you.
00:14:20
Jamaal
Yeah. if Right, true.
00:14:22
Conor Fowler
Everyone would be like, no, no, no. no no no no no It'll be slim until we are all gone.
00:14:24
Jamaal
no, you're right. You're making that shit. Yeah.
00:14:28
Conor Fowler
Even though we know fashion is cyclical.
00:14:30
Jamaal
It is, because I think people, skinny jeans are absolutely fine. I'm not one of those people that say, you have, no, like, wear what you like.
00:14:35
matt
yeah
00:14:39
Jamaal
I don't wear them because it makes sense to wear spacious pants. Like, just for, like, practicality reasons. It makes sense.
00:14:47
matt
Yeah.
00:14:47
Jamaal
But the skinny jeans absolutely have a place, but like my my knees would hurt.
00:14:52
Conor Fowler
I think that the skinny, i think personally, like skinny is like too far.
00:14:52
Jamaal
and
00:14:58
Conor Fowler
You can have like 514, Levi 514, whatever, like slim, straight, fine. But as soon as it's like this constricting, like that's bad.
00:15:10
Jamaal
That was a sausage.
00:15:11
Conor Fowler
doesn't look good.
00:15:12
matt
yeah Yeah. Well, ah you know, skin skinny is now the mainstream thing. So. it's you know It's the people that that aren't you know that aren't from major cities and things that are keeping this going.
00:15:26
matt
And you know and it it applies to suiting too.
00:15:26
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:15:29
matt
like You go into Macy's or whatever you know department store that's just like basic shit and it's the stuff that that was like kind of edgy you know when we were or back a decade or so ago.
00:15:44
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:15:44
matt
but Maybe a little bit less or a little bit more than that, but
00:15:47
Jamaal
Yeah, I guess the the time ran through, but then on look like the lapels were like this skinny. Like it was its a wild time.
00:15:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:15:52
matt
No, yeah. but like
00:15:55
Jamaal
actually had actually had a jacket like that.
00:15:59
Conor Fowler
Oh, me too. I mean, I remember buying some lands and canvas stuff and my dad, I forced my dad to help me move the buttons on the cuffs because they were too like loose.
00:16:14
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:16:14
Conor Fowler
And he this is fucking crazy.
00:16:17
Conor Fowler
Like, why would you do this? Who on earth would do this?
00:16:19
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:16:20
Conor Fowler
Who cares? Who Who cares about this? But it's like me.
00:16:27
Jamaal
I love Languages and Canvas. I still have a like ah no, they went defunct in
00:16:30
Conor Fowler
Are they still making it? Like, yeah, I thought it was over.
00:16:36
Jamaal
yeah
00:16:38
Conor Fowler
It was a good line. I mean, like as far as ah those sort of modernized, sort of trendied, things,
00:16:48
Conor Fowler
brands for old heritage brands. Like, I feel like that was like probably one of the best executed ones, but
00:16:51
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:16:54
Jamaal
It was, I thought. Well, at the time, I didn't i didn't know. I didn't know about tailoring. I had some bad fitting suit jackets too. If not bad fitting, just very, not, I guess it happens with the times, short, and now I know no better.
00:17:08
Jamaal
But yeah, they were they were one of my favorites. I thought they did a a cool blend. They offered cool colors and textures that went for when I was shopping for stuff. It wasn't on my area because I was coming from streetwear and everything skinny and drop hem shirts and stuff like that.
00:17:21
Conor Fowler
Oh, yes.
00:17:22
Jamaal
So, you know.
00:17:23
Conor Fowler
Oh, yes. But sort of taught like the new age tall T.
00:17:27
Jamaal
Yeah, it was.
00:17:29
Conor Fowler
Which like young thug is like is like famous for, you know, $10,000 white T-shirt that looks like a dress. Just good. Good stuff.
00:17:40
Jamaal
makes no sense
00:17:42
matt
So how how did your, you know, how does your aesthetic start start taking shape? Like, it seems like it's been an evolution, but was there, you know what was that kind of like, oh, this is where it's going moment?
Personal Style - Mixing and Matching
00:17:56
Jamaal
i would say that's probably something very very recent it especially since um i don't particularly i love I do love Ivy style and I love how it looks on people, but like, I'm not a full on Ivy guy. I'm not a full on, I'm not really into street wear much, but at one point I kind of was like, you kind of have to fit a mold, but I'm like, I like i just like so many so many different kinds of clothes.
00:18:23
matt
Right.
00:18:23
Jamaal
oh
00:18:23
matt
Yeah.
00:18:24
Jamaal
So it it was, I guess, recently where I started exploring more, like within the last two years, exploring more. And I think one day, probably a couple years ago before I met my wife, I was out going to out to dinner and looking around.
00:18:38
Jamaal
And shoes, what you wear on your feet are very transformative in terms of how you look and what you wear and your aesthetic.
00:18:44
matt
oh
00:18:44
Jamaal
And I came from a time where it was, I wasn't wearing Jordans because that was over when I was in my twenty early twenty s But I just had a lot of regular sneakers. I had nothing casual. So when I would go out to dinner, at one point I was thinking, like, I want to look nice when I out with my wife or my girlfriend.
00:18:58
Jamaal
Like, I want to look, like, elevated, not like jeans and a t-shirt or a polo. And that, I think a couple years ago, kind of, like, snapped at me. And I started the journey of looking for footwear and got my first pair of, like, loafers and it kind of like just went from there. And now I'm kind of like realizing, well, I don't have an aesthetic that I like. It's just, I love all kinds of clothes and I love mixing them. I love mixing things. And it's not new because i think even Ivy style is about comfortable and somewhat mixing things.
00:19:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:19:31
Jamaal
But, you know, I literally will wear, only thing I probably don't wear much is athletic sneakers outside of Chuck's and make some new balance.
00:19:37
matt
Yeah.
00:19:38
Jamaal
But outside of that, I just, I really enjoy mixing things and and having fun with it. And that's my only kind of like thing about my style. Like it just has to feel good and be fun. And I want it to be a little, a little funky, not a whole bunch of funky, just a little funky. And yeah, it's been a, it's been a journey and I love it. I've been enjoying it.
00:19:59
Conor Fowler
that's like kind of this, one of the strengths of Ivy style as it is like, it is a mix of all of them, you know, like there's your heritage stuff, your militaria, your like Americana stuff, whatever. I mean, you can wear like Italian tailoring if you want, and it can be Ivy too. You just have to do it the right way. Right.
00:20:21
Jamaal
Right, except except black, because it's is black Ivy?
00:20:21
Conor Fowler
um
00:20:25
Jamaal
Like the color black?
00:20:27
matt
Black top.
00:20:27
Conor Fowler
I think that it's, I think that it's,
00:20:28
matt
Black.
00:20:30
Conor Fowler
fear boatten And I didn't make up the rule, but I do kind of subscribe to it. Like, I don't know anything that is black. I have one pair of black shoes, black cap toes, thousand mile Wolverine, but they're awkward.
00:20:44
matt
The black, the black silk knit tie is definitely Ivy.
00:20:44
Jamaal
yeah but
00:20:48
matt
So.
00:20:48
Jamaal
Black, okay, all right.
00:20:49
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:50
Conor Fowler
But that's like the, but that's like the one element that is that tone.
00:20:56
matt
Oh, and I mean black cap toe, like, know, shoes too.
00:20:58
Jamaal
ah Yeah, black shoes. But in terms of like tops and bottoms, like i know black like pants that...
00:21:07
Conor Fowler
Black Pants is like your coded waiter, coded your like Best Buy employee.
00:21:09
matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:21:09
Jamaal
Yeah, your black shirt is really weird. If you wearing in a black shirt, that's really strange.
00:21:12
matt
and And to be fair, like black formal or like suiting and tailored clothing and shit, it just kind of looks bad.
00:21:21
Jamaal
Yeah, for sure.
00:21:21
matt
Like across the board, I've started to wear black pants and things of that nature. I've been mixing a lot of black and brown, um which I think is a really cool combo. like But it's but as casual.
00:21:31
Jamaal
No,
00:21:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah, i think black and brown I think black and brown looks great together.
00:21:34
Conor Fowler
And I think that that's like kind of the only excuse to wear black at all is to do that to break that rule.
00:21:39
matt
Yeah.
00:21:42
matt
Right. But like, you know, I would never in my life wear a black suit.
00:21:47
Conor Fowler
no
00:21:47
Jamaal
no i guess unless...
00:21:48
Conor Fowler
One of the first suits that I bought was a black suit. I was in Georgetown and I got like conned into buying this suit from this sort of quasi-Italian suit place.
00:21:50
matt
Yeah.
00:21:59
matt
Well, I think for, you know, for a lot of people that don't know the quote unquote rules of ah shit that like we do, they're not nerds about things like a black, a black suit makes sense.
00:22:09
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:22:12
Conor Fowler
This was an old Italian guy who knew, but it was still like, it was the only 34 in the place.
00:22:12
matt
You know,
00:22:15
matt
he should have. Yeah.
00:22:19
matt
Right.
00:22:20
matt
Right.
00:22:20
Conor Fowler
And so he wanted to sell it to me because it would fit.
00:22:23
Conor Fowler
And it did look excellent, but it was black.
00:22:24
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:26
Conor Fowler
So I went back and bought a Navy one.
00:22:28
matt
Yeah, and I mean, when you would you get into more of like high fashion shit, like a black suit, like a Hades Le Mane Dior suit, I think people can rock that and look awesome.
00:22:29
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:22:33
Jamaal
yeah
00:22:39
matt
It's just, yeah, just like in ah in an actual, you know, more Ivy classic, whatever you want to say, like a black suit just does not make sense.
00:22:39
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:22:47
Jamaal
Yeah. Yeah, my first suit was actually a ah black suit. I got it from Urban Outfitters.
00:22:53
matt
Oh yeah, makes sense, makes sense.
00:22:55
Conor Fowler
No, and that's the like, that's the like casual suit, right?
00:22:58
Jamaal
i still I still have the jacket. I don't have the pants because they're way too slim, but i can I can still wear the jacket right now. I got it like probably in like 2012 or something. I still had, I don't know why. Like, bro, give it away. that You can't even wear that. It's right it's short.
00:23:12
Jamaal
But back then, I guess, um the cheaper brand, not cheaper brands, let me not say that because I don't believe in that kind of stuff. They were putting, for some reason, functional button cuffs on stuff because I got jackets from Target that have functional cuffs.
00:23:23
Conor Fowler
H&M was big into the functional button cut.
00:23:23
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:23:24
Jamaal
Now a brands, they won't they won't dare waste their time and money putting functional cuffs, even though they don't add anything to a jacket. I don't think they add anything because we don't use we don't roll the cuffs up They don't add anything.
00:23:35
Conor Fowler
I think the option is good. Like you can do that. That's an insane flex, right? If you're like sweating and you're wearing your like cashmere or silk jacket or whatever, and you've rolled up your sleeves for some reason, good for you.
00:23:45
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:23:49
Jamaal
But in terms of selling selling and tailoring, I can't, you can tailor the sleeves.
00:23:54
Conor Fowler
No, it damns the jacket, right?
00:23:56
Jamaal
You can't, take but it's like, it would cost way too much. It wouldn't make any sense to take it. Like, cause I tailor most of my sleeves cause they're too long.
00:24:00
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:24:02
Jamaal
So it wouldn't, I couldn't do it.
00:24:02
matt
Yeah, yeah. what working Working buttonholes on ready-to-wear jackets, just like... I know LBM and, like, some of...
00:24:12
Conor Fowler
It's their house style, basically.
00:24:14
matt
Well, some of it that has been explained to me years ago was, like, the way that their dyeing process works. Like, it would... It has to be done on some fabrics. I don't know why.
00:24:26
Jamaal
Thank
00:24:27
matt
But, like, yeah...
00:24:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah, i've you've said that before and I'm still like, okay I mean, I buy it, but I won' i don't understand it mechanically.
00:24:34
matt
Yeah, i don't same, but like, you know, and maybe, maybe this, the, you know, the rep was just talking out of his ass, but like, it just does not make sense.
00:24:43
Conor Fowler
Well, just purely from a you can't really alter it, that's bad.
00:24:49
matt
Right. Oh yeah, totally.
00:24:51
Jamaal
Cause I bought, I just bought a denim suit from J. Crew for my birthday and wife got the jacket. I bought the pants and they have functioning cups and they are a bit long, probably like to here.
00:25:03
Jamaal
So I'm like, ah, so like, I can't tell them.
00:25:05
matt
Oh.
00:25:06
Jamaal
So I'll probably just end up like rolling up on some, like I'll just roll it up.
00:25:08
Conor Fowler
You got to roll them It's going to look great on you.
00:25:10
Jamaal
in
00:25:10
Conor Fowler
i know this that I know the thing that you're talking about. I mean,
00:25:13
Jamaal
Yeah. Yeah. So I'll just roll it up and it'll just be like a, like a flex, I guess.
00:25:20
Conor Fowler
it's like a, it's a, it adds visual dimension.
00:25:23
Jamaal
It's visually, it's it's a thing to see, and I guess...
00:25:30
Conor Fowler
It's like, it shows you, it shows that you are using the clothes.
00:25:30
Jamaal
Yeah, it definitely it definitely it definitely does.
00:25:36
Jamaal
That's true. I think um I do like the practicality when they are used in a way because we don't do that anymore. We just wear clothes because we like them, which is totally like that's dope. Like you don't got to use the the rock climbing clothes to go rock climbing.
00:25:47
Jamaal
You can just wear your pants up the street to get to pick up your kid from their baby to babysitter or something.
00:25:48
matt
Right.
00:25:52
Jamaal
if you want That's cool, too.
00:25:53
Conor Fowler
Right. So we're perfectly going along with the questions here. um Do you so we've talked about style as a way to communicate dressing as a way to communicate?
00:26:06
Conor Fowler
What are you trying to communicate? What are you trying to convey?
00:26:09
Jamaal
i I'll be like a... um Because i um i do agree that we would communicate things with what we wear.
00:26:25
Jamaal
Personally, for me, What I'm communicating is only that I want to look as nice as possible in whatever I'm wearing and wherever I'm going. And it's literally just for me. It's not communicating anything to anyone else except that guy has nice clothes. That is plainly it because I don't believe in um and in any aspect of any sort of level of respectability in dress.
00:26:48
Jamaal
Because there are rat bastard people that wear a suit. And then there are people that will sleep on the street because it the last thing they had before they got homeless was the suit. And that's what they're sleeping in. So i don't think that, and that's an extreme example, but just don't believe in the like,
00:27:04
Jamaal
I don't believe in it, but like the thing that's overarchingly going through the menswear space the last couple of years, like it communicates something and it does. But with people's perception, you can't change people's perception. Like there are certain things people are just going to think about you regardless of what you wearing or not.
00:27:19
Jamaal
And you can't force it with what clothes you're wearing. So I choose to not communicate with my clothes to anybody except myself which is i like this and it looks good and i hope someone says that's nice and if they don't that's cool but that is it that's nice not that guy knows ivy style or he knows this or that's a cool tight whatever jacket that neckerchief is this or those are some cool military pants i don't care do i look nice yes do i like it yes and i think um yeah not i not hate that but it easily leads to where a lot of our clothes got their basis in, which can which you know can largely be traced back to you know war and military, which is fine, but also classism and elitism.
00:28:03
matt
Totally.
00:28:04
Jamaal
And I think that's what it is because that's what, when you think of a suit, no matter what time period suits, less wealthy people wore suits at one point.
00:28:04
Conor Fowler
it can get It can get icky for sure. um
00:28:17
Jamaal
But then at one point there is a suit you wore in certain colors that meant something. And i I just don't, where it comes from, I don't like it. So I just don't even, you know, to me, I don't do that. But if other people do, I think if something means, to suit mean something to them, like a strong structure, shoulder suit means that you're a Wall Street guy or something and knock yourself out.
00:28:38
matt
Right, right.
00:28:39
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:28:39
matt
Yeah. I think honestly, like in the year, you know, 2025, it doesn't fucking matter and it shouldn't matter to anyone.
00:28:48
Jamaal
I 100% it does to some people.
00:28:50
Conor Fowler
Well, but it does though. So much it does.
00:28:52
matt
and know I know it does, but like it it shouldn't is what I'm saying.
00:28:52
Jamaal
No, it shouldn't.
00:28:57
matt
100%.
00:28:57
Jamaal
It shouldn't.
00:28:57
Conor Fowler
Of course not. Well, so much of like, when you see a person, you shouldn't judge them for any metric other than that one.
00:29:06
matt
yeah hundred percent
00:29:07
Conor Fowler
Are they a human? Are they not a human? And this is where we kind of get down into the weeds for some reason, because there are people who don't believe that other people are humans, even though they obviously are.
00:29:17
matt
Yeah, 100%.
00:29:20
Jamaal
Yeah, and i I think clothing is one of the least things that someone should be judged for.
00:29:20
matt
yeah
00:29:27
Jamaal
You can feel free to judge people for a lot of things, but the clothes they're wearing, I don't think that's a ah one that I would want to fall in based on clothes.
00:29:37
matt
yeah a hundred percent so do you you know, you're, you're kind of like roots community that you've been a part of and lived experience. Does that show up in how you, you know, how you dress and, and kind of see the things and find the things that you think are cool?
Father's Fashion Influence
00:29:57
Jamaal
As I'm getting older, a little bit, I was ah went home like this past year for Thanksgiving, and I was going through a, my mom and dad did a fantastic job, or my mom probably, of like just taking lots of photos.
00:30:10
Jamaal
And there was a picture of my dad in a bar, and he was wearing, I can't tell what kind of shirt, it was like a pink, button-up shirt. I want to say, I don't know. i don't know what the material, but had a nice flow to it and like some light wash blue jeans and like some sort of like brown loafers.
00:30:24
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:30:24
Jamaal
And as I'm getting older and my dad passed, so I don't get to pick his brain and talk to him about that kind of stuff. But seeing pictures now, um, I'm starting to, and like I thrift shop a lot. My dad always, when I was younger, always was talking about clearance. And I'd be like, what are you talking about? Like, why are you so cheap? And now like it makes it makes total sense.
00:30:44
Jamaal
And now starting to connect more as I'm getting older, um, with kind of like how my dad did things and shop, but my, um, style wise, not much, but just that whole thing of of being an older man and like falling into like, what's that commercial with the Allstate where they're don't act like your parents or whatever it is.
00:31:02
Jamaal
Like,
00:31:02
matt
Oh yeah.
00:31:03
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:31:03
Jamaal
I'm starting to act like my parents in terms of what they view and value. And it and it it definitely shows up and in how I dress and how I how i shop. Because my dad was always – I hated clearance.
00:31:11
matt
Totally.
00:31:14
Jamaal
Like, why would I want to buy the cheap stuff? This is the this is the stuff that no one wants. This stuff sucks.
00:31:19
matt
Right.
00:31:19
Jamaal
That's why we're selling it for cheap. And now I'm like, I'll take it. You know, it's cheap.
00:31:23
matt
Oh, hell yeah.
00:31:24
Jamaal
Yeah, I'll thrift. I'll buy secondhand and –
00:31:27
matt
Dude. My first pair of Chucks were $5 clearance ones at JCPenney because in 1990, that probably would have been around 93 or so, like no no one in my tiny town was buying fucking Chuck Taylors.
00:31:38
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:31:43
Jamaal
No? And Chucks?
00:31:44
matt
no Yeah, not not back then, but
00:31:45
Jamaal
i thought I thought everyone loved Chucks everywhere.
00:31:49
Conor Fowler
No, they were like maligned as a whatever, right? Like as the like bottom tier shoe.
00:31:55
Jamaal
Bottom tier basketball kind of like, yeah.
00:31:55
matt
yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this was, you know, around the same time that like Abercrombie and American Eagle was cut like ascending, you know, so like, like fourth grade and little like punk rock, all kid and me. I was like, oh yeah, dude. Purple Chucks for $5. Sign up. Yeah.
00:32:12
matt
sign me up
00:32:14
Conor Fowler
a goodbye.
00:32:14
Jamaal
Yeah, I definitely, when I was that, I guess in that type of age, I was, think, wearing Jordans. And that's when I was in third and fourth grade, and my sneaks were cheap.
00:32:23
matt
yeah
00:32:23
Jamaal
So I had all the Jordans, but of course, in like two or three years. i'm gonna close I'm going to close this blind, because this sign is ridiculous. Excuse me.
00:32:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah, no, you're well not you're allowed. um Now we've got a close-up of the neckerchief.
00:32:38
Jamaal
Oh, yeah, has foxes on it. don't if can.
00:32:40
matt
Oh, hell yeah.
00:32:42
Conor Fowler
Very good. Yeah, look at that.
00:32:44
Jamaal
Yeah, I got it from a vintage place in Hyattsville, which is not not far from ah DC.
00:32:46
Conor Fowler
That's nice. I like a fox.
00:32:53
Jamaal
It's pretty close.
00:32:54
Conor Fowler
College Park.
00:32:56
Jamaal
um Yes, it's close to College Park. yeah it's Well, there I guess Hyattsville and College Park are adjacent.
00:33:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's where my family is from. so like, I know that whole Bladensburg area.
00:33:07
Jamaal
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:11
Conor Fowler
What is, a what are your inspirations? I mean, are there people, movies, books?
00:33:20
Jamaal
So I don't have inspirations from people because, well, no, because I tried to like, just something's getting older. I tried to, in the world is a way, I try to give the things and people in my community flowers. And I feel like a lot of, some people will look to celebrity or people that they can't touch and feel. And most things I can touch and feel are the inspiration. and um So ah I'll see kind of wearing something or mat or a lot of times i've what I see is I'll see, I've walked by like large doors and churches or something like and will take that as inspiration sometimes. So I'm more into like textures and colors that out that I'll see.
00:34:05
Jamaal
And I have so much clothes that sometimes taking inspiration from too many people just makes a mess of me because my room is an absolute mess. But yeah, mostly i like to take it from almost anything, just not the famous people.
00:34:18
Jamaal
That's not my bag because I think...
00:34:19
matt
Yeah.
00:34:20
Jamaal
Because I think that a lot of times people just look extra regular. And because they have... Like, if I can say man that's not an attractive man, if they had lots of money, they'd be like, oh, look at Mr. Ugly Jamal.
00:34:33
Jamaal
He has on the best sweater you've ever seen. So I definitely don't take it from...
00:34:35
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:34:37
Jamaal
from um celebrities but now i'm in the space like it's too many people to even name like i'm just flipping through stuff and i'm just screenshotting uh but definitely a lot in the menswear space and just from textures and colors i see in nature i'll stop being my wife take a picture of something and be like that that that combination or that texture looks looks interesting so just from really yeah
00:34:56
Conor Fowler
Colors and textures, colors and textures right now.
Inspiration from Everyday Colors and Textures
00:35:00
Conor Fowler
Like what?
00:35:00
Jamaal
yeah
00:35:01
Jamaal
So that pink, is that what, or is that that color? I love how, like how it's not a bright pink. It's not a sharp pink.
00:35:09
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's a soft, it's like a soft pink.
00:35:11
Jamaal
It's a soft pink. So I think, is
00:35:12
Conor Fowler
It's what we use for the Linktree. It's that, it's that pink color.
00:35:15
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:35:15
Conor Fowler
It's like, yeah.
00:35:16
Jamaal
And there's some green back there too and brown and just the naturey, the green look. So like something like that, which is actually, I'm wearing a little green, got a little red in there. um But yeah, take it from, i think, anything, because I think that's what people that that enjoy putting clothes on.
00:35:32
Jamaal
It doesn't matter. It can be any single thing that you've you've ever seen or be reminded of. And I woke up and early in the morning after I worked out and like scribbled notes. Literally, I had stuff on my phone that just says ah red top graphic tee that I may have seen on somebody and kind of just incorporated into what I may enjoy.
00:35:57
matt
so that
00:35:57
Conor Fowler
Um, go on.
00:35:58
matt
So there there's a question that I don't, this might, I think this is the first time that we've ever asked it, but ah Connor came up with it and I think it's it's a perfect ah question for you.
Integrity in Fashion Choices
00:36:13
matt
In a world obsessed with visibility and hype, what does integrity and fashion look like to you?
00:36:19
Jamaal
Ooh, that, who came up that question?
00:36:21
matt
Connor.
00:36:22
Jamaal
that's that's That's a good question I can ramble on for days, integrity.
00:36:28
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I thought this was I basically I mean, of course, I wrote this question for you, but this is the one that I was really like, OK, this is one for him.
00:36:28
Jamaal
So
00:36:34
Jamaal
so
00:36:36
Jamaal
I guess I have to, for people in the public eye, because I think we have to put goal posts on it because you can just kind of go off on a tangent. For people that are in the public eye, um I think integrity looks like simply really wearing the clothes for you and the purpose that you like.
00:36:57
Jamaal
whatever that Whatever that is. i you know I don't know what it ever is for everyone, but wearing clothes for you. And I think some of that integrity, and we see that a lot, it it gets eroded. when when Anytime you in introduce money,
00:37:12
Jamaal
and and or fame and or love or likes into something, it can erode you because then you start to do things slightly differently than you would otherwise.
00:37:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:37:24
Jamaal
And it takes you away from just what your original purpose would have been, which is I just like I like, so some people just like, yeah, I like ah sets. I like to wear matching sweatshirt and about and bottom with athleticism. I just like that. and then you're changing into wearing some avant-garde stuff with logos.
00:37:42
Jamaal
So I think it looks like, and to be frank, man, this is something that is kind of not on the question. I think if you're in the public space and doing this in public and people are giving you money, however that works, or giving you stuff,
00:37:58
Jamaal
and you tell people that they should also do or buy or what you do,
00:38:05
Jamaal
I don't want to say a harsh thing that's despicable because I don't think it's despicable. We're talking about clothes here. no one's going to die.
00:38:12
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:13
Jamaal
But people do spend their hard-earned money on stuff because of what other people say. And they, you know, I think people take should take that, but should take it more seriously than they do because people really put people in the public eye and in the pedestal and do whatever they say. And you end up either wasting your money wasting your time, which I think is the big one in facing journey is the fun part is looking back and saying those lapels, that suit suck. Those shoes suck. That's the, that's the fun part.
00:38:47
Jamaal
Like that's the thing that you're wearing now. you didn't you couldn't You wouldn't be there 10 years ago. And you wouldn't be here without that and vice versa. And I think all of that is part of it.
00:38:58
Jamaal
And I think people want to cut that out and try to package it and sell it to other people and say, this is what you should be doing.
00:39:01
matt
Right. Right.
00:39:05
Jamaal
um So I think integrity, literally, just do what you like and be true to you, which there are some people that I see that you can just tell. Are they still taking stuff and selling stuff? Probably.
00:39:17
Jamaal
um Damn it, this sun.
00:39:20
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:39:23
Jamaal
ah But yeah, there are people that that do it, and then there are people that you can just tell they're just clear shilling for money.
00:39:30
matt
right
00:39:30
Jamaal
And it and that makes me and that makes me sad because especially for ah for for guys, less for women. We didn't grow up wanting to look away.
00:39:44
Jamaal
Women, because of a bunch of things that we can get into, but it would be it would go on forever. always was told to look away nice for whomever we, you know, we don't want go down there, but men, it's not, you just be strong.
00:39:53
matt
right dude's dude's gonna pass on i mean
00:39:57
Jamaal
Yeah, kilt.
00:39:59
Conor Fowler
I think that's kind
Gender Roles and Fashion Freedom
00:40:01
Conor Fowler
of true. i think that's kind of true, but it's like, try wearing a skirt, you know, that's not going to fly.
00:40:06
matt
well oh yeah and i'm saying right well i mean that's that's also like you know it's it comes down to a lot of things that
00:40:09
Jamaal
yeah a kilt
00:40:16
matt
are are connected to clothing, but, you know, gender roles and things of that nature, which we don't, like Jamal said, that could go on forever. But, you know, like, I feel like anyone that's, that is raised as a woman is, is very much like, you know, you have to, you have to do this and that and that and that.
00:40:24
Jamaal
Okay.
00:40:36
matt
And like most stuff for dudes, you know, like our parents were not wearing, ah really cool shit. You know, our dad, know, was in like a shirt and pants and boots or sneakers and that's about it So it's like, yeah, that bar is pretty fucking low for dudes for the most part.
00:40:50
Jamaal
okay
00:40:55
Jamaal
Yeah, it it definitely is. And be like because, it like you were saying, you were raised as a woman, like, I guess it's because of man strong and men have to domineer. So you look pretty for men and men, you do whatever you want.
00:41:11
matt
Right.
00:41:11
Jamaal
So we're...
00:41:12
matt
Yeah. it's It's definitely, there's definitely a power imbalance in this situation.
00:41:13
Jamaal
so we
00:41:16
Jamaal
Yeah. So then like, not, not to say that that's, you know, Oh, poor us. We don't know how to wear clothes. Cause we don't, we haven't been doing it for so long. But like, then that leaves men in a space where they, then they feel a way about feeling a way about their clothes. Like I want to feel a way nice with my clothes. Like, Oh, that's this or that. Like,
00:41:35
Jamaal
it's It's just clothes. And then even more expression, like people painting their nails. I don't paint my nails and i that I would never paint them, but I don't care if someone paints their nails.
00:41:44
matt
Yeah.
00:41:44
Jamaal
and I would even say if I see it, like, oh, bro, like the way you got your nails painted with with this and that, like, that looks cool.
00:41:49
matt
Yeah, it same.
00:41:50
Jamaal
And I think it's literally just painting just expression, another form of expression with your clothes and how you put stuff on to express yourself. And I think it's painting men in such a, it's putting us in such a, it's making us,
00:42:04
Jamaal
it's bringing the weakness that's inside of some of us to the surface, which is we don't do, you know, some, a lot of, some of us men are weak because we lash out against something that we just like, come on, paint your nails.
00:42:07
matt
Right, right.
00:42:16
Jamaal
Like, I'm like, come on, like be serious.
00:42:18
matt
Right. i wish I wish I had as much time and energy as some people seem to have. the You know what I mean? Like, yeah.
00:42:24
Conor Fowler
For hatred, for hatred.
00:42:26
Jamaal
Yeah. No, thank you.
00:42:27
matt
Yeah. Like, I mean, i would never I would never be that person, but it's like, dude, you know, I was talking about this with a friend of mine last night. Like, yeah he was talking about comments, like negative comments that he gets on some of his like um reels that he posts.
00:42:42
matt
And I was like, who has the fucking energy to like argue on Instagram?
00:42:46
Conor Fowler
Seriously.
00:42:48
Jamaal
Yeah. I talked to my my wife about something, which I think I have. ah i don't think it's interesting at all, but maybe just ah approach that a perspective of, you know, when you put yourself online and you happen to get some money or fame or whatever it is, people say mostly, I would assume mostly good things.
00:43:06
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:43:06
Jamaal
And people say bad things. And I kind of think we you kind of like if you've amassed something, a following for yourself and people say mostly good things, you should expect people to say bad things and it should be totally fine.
00:43:16
Jamaal
And sometimes people cross a line and make a career out of but of being a hater. And that's that's weird. I think because even saying something like I would rather not say if I see an outfit on somebody online and say, yeah, like,
00:43:21
matt
Right. Yeah, same. same
00:43:29
Jamaal
Bro, that one's kind of ass. Like, don't like that. I probably just wouldn't say nothing.
00:43:32
matt
Yeah, exactly.
00:43:32
Jamaal
But I think people should feel free to say that if they like, because if people can say nice things, they can certainly say something like that, as long as it's not harmful.
00:43:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:43:40
Jamaal
Like, hey, I want hurt your kids.
00:43:42
matt
Right, right.
00:43:43
Jamaal
But yeah, it's people that make a ah kind of like, you like, oh, that's such and such. He's always down there saying whatever. Like, that's like that's so silly.
00:43:51
matt
Truly.
00:43:54
matt
So we, we, oh yeah, go for
00:43:54
Jamaal
yeah And I think to finish off, I think men have to do a better job of policing men in how we express ourselves.
00:44:06
Jamaal
Of course, for women as well, but for each other. Like, if you see someone saying something about another dude away, whatever, like, we need to a better job of checking them so we can, like, live freely and paint our nails if we like, or wear, if you want to wear a skirt or whatever, or anything in between to feel freely to do so.
00:44:23
matt
Yeah. hundred percent 100%.
00:44:27
Conor Fowler
Fuck yeah.
00:44:27
matt
It's positive masculinity. so
00:44:29
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:44:30
Jamaal
Yes, yes.
00:44:30
Conor Fowler
Put a fucking stamp on it.
00:44:32
Jamaal
Yeah, because men cry, men do, men nurture, are nurturing. Men are a lot of the same things that that that women are.
00:44:40
Conor Fowler
ask for directions. can fucking, like, befriend a woman.
00:44:45
Jamaal
I won't go that far. I won't ask for directions.
00:44:47
Conor Fowler
There's so much.
00:44:47
Jamaal
You've gone too far.
00:44:47
matt
Yeah.
00:44:48
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:44:49
Jamaal
You've gone too far. i'll circle I'll circle around the block for an hour.
00:44:52
Conor Fowler
I was going to say, well, I will ask the directions on your behalf.
00:44:52
Jamaal
That's too far.
00:44:55
Jamaal
It stops there, but everything else is spot on.
00:44:58
matt
Totally. Uh, so what's the, what's the ratio kind of, of new to secondhand stuff in your wardrobe?
Thrifted vs. New - Wardrobe Balance
00:45:06
Jamaal
o
00:45:08
matt
Cause we, I know you bought a couple of things that you were just kind of like, oh, this, I think it was a Bronson jacket that you posted ah few weeks back or something.
00:45:17
Jamaal
Yeah, I got a ah jungle jacket from yeah jungle jacket from not guy a while back. Yeah.
00:45:21
matt
Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, and I feel like you you buy things to kind of test out if they're if they're cool when and worth, you know, worth the price.
00:45:27
Jamaal
yeah I'm probably, I think it's going more thrift, but I'm thinking um I'll probably 70, 65, 35 or 70, 30, I think new to thrift probably. Yeah, I would say 65, 35. I mean, a lot of stuff I buy is now is is getting more and more because I realized I can just get some some crazy nice stuff.
00:45:51
matt
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:52
Jamaal
ah for much cheaper but am always in J.Crew's clearance section when they get 70% off I've gotten I got a full like tropical wool suit for like a hundred bucks of course
00:46:03
matt
Yeah, I mean, honestly, that's not that dissimilar from some thrifting at this point in life.
00:46:09
Conor Fowler
Right, seriously.
00:46:10
Jamaal
a yeah yeah
00:46:10
matt
Yeah.
00:46:12
Jamaal
for sure. Especially when, i know for me, I always have to, not always, but well, you're always going to get the pants hems because they're always too long and usually get the waist taken in too.
00:46:19
matt
Right.
00:46:22
Jamaal
So that he kind of tells me all the time, like, bro, like you need to use different tailor because my tailor would be knocking me over the head. But I'm like, I'm scared because the stuff I buy, if I do thrift it, I really, really enjoy it. And a bad tailor will ruin your clothes and it will cost you three or four times much to get it fixed i'm like if i like them i'm gonna keep what them these expensive it's just what it is so yeah 65 35 i think yeah
00:46:44
matt
Totally.
00:46:47
matt
Okay. That's a pretty solid ratio.
00:46:50
Jamaal
yeah
00:46:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah, respectable.
00:46:53
Jamaal
But most of that stuff is a lot of the the new stuff that was bought new. A lot of it is probably some of it's 10 years old. Some of it's three or four or five years old. And i would say a smaller percentage of is like brand, brand new.
00:47:07
matt
Right. You're not doing the fast fashion type of thing where you buy something, you wear it three times and then you throw it.
00:47:12
Jamaal
No, I have the oldest thing I think I may have, maybe about 10 years old. I i'll have a ah leather motorcycle jacket from Gap that I bought. There was like the grail when I bought it.
00:47:23
Jamaal
Cause I, leather the jackets, a lot of money. Like you're talking 10 years ago, you're talking, i think that jacket was 450.
00:47:25
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:47:29
Jamaal
I got it for like, maybe like 200 bucks. And I was just like, Oh my God, I got a leather jacket.
00:47:35
Conor Fowler
I gotta give you that moto jacket.
00:47:36
Jamaal
Um,
00:47:37
Conor Fowler
I mean, I worn it one time.
00:47:40
Jamaal
Yeah, yeah to toss it over here i love ah I love a good...
00:47:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:47:43
Jamaal
And mine's just so slim because it was I was ah somewhat smaller. than I can still fit it, but it's like I can't layer it. It's a t-shirt jacket. I can wear with a t-shirt.
00:47:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:47:52
Jamaal
And if I wear it with butt, like a but ah like an oxford or something, is I just have to leave it open and just have to walk around like this.
00:47:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah, we gotta post the video for this one too.
00:47:59
Jamaal
So...
00:48:01
Conor Fowler
We gotta figure out what we're gonna do with that.
00:48:02
Jamaal
I meant to send a couple of pictures. I think I had myself going on an interview in a suit and a tie, like from like 2012 or 13. And I think had another picture of me doing something that I was working out this morning and I forgot.
00:48:10
Conor Fowler
Oh, we got to post them.
00:48:16
Jamaal
I made lunch before my wife. that she She left. She didn't even say anything.
00:48:24
Conor Fowler
Wow. You made her lunch though. That's very nice.
00:48:26
Jamaal
I'm the primary in our household ah So I cook every single breakfast, like probably 95%. My wife, she's she's just not a wanted person. I make the coffee, make breakfast.
00:48:37
Conor Fowler
Wow. Sounds familiar to me.
00:48:40
Jamaal
She cooks, but like if there's if there's food that needs to be prepared, and like on the weekends, I'm pretty much cooking something. I'm chefing something up. So I'll probably say I cook like 60% or 70% of the time. And any meals that like on the weekend that we're putting something together, I'm making this stuff.
00:48:55
Jamaal
I'm making lunches if we're home. So yeah, I enjoy it.
00:49:00
Conor Fowler
It's good work if you can get it.
00:49:03
matt
Yeah, I wish I fucking enjoyed it. Jesus.
00:49:06
Jamaal
You don't like cooking?
00:49:06
matt
No, I do not.
00:49:08
Conor Fowler
Dude, I've been down this fucking road so many times. Like the only way to enjoy cooking is to do it all the time.
00:49:17
matt
yeah and I don't want to do it all the time.
00:49:19
Conor Fowler
Right. And if you don't want to get into that, like, because you got at least get your knife skills up. You got to figure out how your range works and how your oven works. Like,
00:49:30
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:30
Jamaal
No, no, you're right. because i we cook We eat out on like a like on a Saturday or Sunday, we'll eat out. And maybe on a Friday sometimes if we don't have, but we cook, I would say 85, we're eating at home 85% the time probably that we're making.
00:49:48
Jamaal
they
00:49:49
Conor Fowler
That's pretty good. I mean, we probably eat out like half as much as we cook, but I'd like to be cooking more because it's fucking insane.
00:49:53
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:49:55
Conor Fowler
I mean, you want me to pay $80 for two hamburgers delivery?
00:50:00
matt
Right.
00:50:01
Jamaal
That's ah that's a absurd.
00:50:02
Conor Fowler
Get out of here.
00:50:03
matt
Yeah.
00:50:03
Conor Fowler
And that's like, that's like not exaggerated in my typical fashion.
00:50:03
Jamaal
I don't deliver.
00:50:07
Conor Fowler
That is literally the price.
00:50:09
matt
Yeah. Yeah. I ordered, I treated myself to a burger because my birthday is two days from now.
00:50:15
Conor Fowler
Boom, boom, boom.
00:50:15
matt
am i am a Scorpio. Yeah.
00:50:15
Jamaal
Whoa, wait, wait, you were a Scorpio, right?
00:50:19
Jamaal
Yeah, I'm a Sagittarius. I'm on Thanksgiving for the first day.
00:50:21
matt
Oh, wait, what's your, what, what's your birthday?
00:50:24
Jamaal
27th.
00:50:25
matt
twenty seven
00:50:25
Jamaal
This year, was on Thanksgiving. I was born on Thanksgiving.
00:50:27
Conor Fowler
Oh, fuck. It's my brother's birthday. You and Ian have the same birthday.
00:50:31
Jamaal
shit, yeah? ha
00:50:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:50:32
matt
Yeah. Anyway, it was ah it was a fantastic burger from this new all-vegan spot that I guess just opened. And it was $37 with delivery fee or would tip.
00:50:43
matt
And I was just like...
00:50:43
Conor Fowler
And see, that's exactly fucking what I said, right?
00:50:44
matt
Yeah.
00:50:47
Conor Fowler
It's $40 in one hamburger.
00:50:47
Jamaal
30, about 40 bucks. It
00:50:49
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:50:49
matt
Yeah, which is ridiculous.
00:50:50
Jamaal
ah
00:50:51
matt
But, you know, it was a cold night. I wanted something good and warm. And I was like...
00:50:54
Conor Fowler
Oh, no, dude, I'm not fucking casting aspersions at all.
00:50:55
Jamaal
is.
00:50:57
matt
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:57
Jamaal
just it it is and And the thing about it is
00:50:57
Conor Fowler
Like, you have to do it.
00:50:58
matt
We just...
00:50:59
Conor Fowler
You have to do it. There's no other way to do it.
00:51:00
matt
It's just, it's a thing that we've, that we've had to accept in our modern.
00:51:04
Conor Fowler
That we have, right, allowed to become normalized.
00:51:06
matt
Right.
00:51:11
Jamaal
you would still care, but like if the delivery person, you know, they would go home and they could also afford to DoorDash, you'd you know what? You're making enough money. Like it's going around, but you know, they are getting paid.
00:51:21
Conor Fowler
Mm-mm.
00:51:21
Jamaal
You know, the restaurants probably, it sucks.
00:51:22
matt
Yeah, I know. It sucks. I always... i'm a I'm a very good tipper most of the time, or all the time. Like, even if it's the worst shit, like, you still get a good tip.
00:51:31
Jamaal
I try to be, yeah, I try to be as much as possible.
00:51:33
matt
You know.
00:51:34
Jamaal
it it makes it It makes a difference. Even if it's an extra couple dollars, it makes a difference because
00:51:39
Conor Fowler
I, yeah, I mean, I will not get down to 15% if it's very shitty, but like you, I feel like you can't do less than that. Really?
00:51:47
matt
Yeah, especially especially not with delivery, because they get so fucked over.
00:51:47
Jamaal
I
00:51:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:52
Jamaal
and did that for a while.
00:51:52
Conor Fowler
And I've done that shit, you know?
00:51:53
Jamaal
For minute.
00:51:54
Conor Fowler
So it's like.
00:51:55
matt
Right.
00:51:56
Jamaal
Yeah.
00:51:58
matt
Well, that kind of seems like a good spot to wind down. um You know, we've talked a lot about clothes and Jamal, I feel like you've told our listeners a lot about yourself just with, you know, with what you've said.
00:52:10
Jamaal
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:12
matt
um Yeah, we're we're excited to have you on the team and you've been doing great work. So, and also...
00:52:22
Conor Fowler
Truly amazing work. I mean, do you, how do you even make a video? Who knows how to do that?
00:52:27
matt
um Yeah, I was going to say also work that neither Connor nor myself know how to fucking do.
00:52:27
Conor Fowler
That's crazy.
00:52:32
matt
so
00:52:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:52:33
Jamaal
Yeah, it's, it's, um, I've been,
00:52:35
Conor Fowler
Jamal is a one man fucking army of like video and production work and all that stuff. So.
00:52:42
Jamaal
um but I've been, I've been enjoying it, man. And I, and I really, i don't know, like, i like, it sounds like someone, like you guys are paying me, but I listened to it, I was like, this is, this is just good shit to listen to. And our other people make it podcast, sure. But I'm like, this is just good good meat to listen to and the guests um of course the guests you guys and the guests make the show and it's always a different kind of angle to each one so it's never it's always about mostly clothes but it's never ever the same and you just never that kind of know and that's the i think one of the most part of joy the most like man i don't know what i'm gonna listen to like you could kind of just put it on random and just get something cool and different every single time
00:53:25
matt
Hell yeah.
00:53:25
Conor Fowler
Wow. We got to use that as a fucking ad
00:53:28
matt
Yeah, that's what that's why we'd like to
00:53:29
Jamaal
Yeah, sure.
00:53:29
Conor Fowler
I mean,
The Relaxing Style of the Podcast
00:53:30
matt
hear.
00:53:30
matt
Damn.
00:53:30
Conor Fowler
well, I told you somebody from high school who I was close with then, but I'm not so close with now, was like, dude, listen to your podcast because it's very relaxing.
00:53:41
matt
Oh, that's good to know.
00:53:42
Jamaal
okay
00:53:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah. I was like, he said, you know, your voices are just pretty soothing and it's like calm and you guys talk about stuff. You're never like screaming at each other.
00:53:53
Jamaal
I just noticed that this it's there's not a lot of like hectic up and downs to nobody's voice. It's just like everybody's just chilling.
00:53:59
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:00
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:54:01
matt
that's That's what we do on this program. We chill and we talk about random shit.
00:54:05
Jamaal
Yeah, for sure.
00:54:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's the chill zone.
00:54:07
matt
Anyway, Jamal, shout out your account so people can follow you and shout out anything else you'd like to as well.
Social Media and Community Initiatives
00:54:15
Jamaal
Uh, it's just Jamal, J-A-M-A-A-L underscore T-U-H-R-I-K on Instagram. I think it's the same on, on TikTok. I do a lot of yapping on TikTok. There's a lot more more clothes and more yapping too. So don't go there unless you want to hear an opinion that you may or may not find offensive.
00:54:33
Jamaal
Um, if you were only, if you're a piece of shit, if you're not a piece of shit, you won't find offensive.
00:54:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I was gonna say, you'd be hard-pressed to find your opinions offensive.
00:54:37
matt
Right, right, exactly.
00:54:37
Jamaal
but you
00:54:40
Jamaal
Oh, also, too, hearing it here first, the whole gang, I think about if I'm going to do a coat drive. And if anyone would like to donate cold weather clothes, long sleeves, shirts and coats, I will actually, if you live in the Baltimore, D.C. area, I'll actually drive to a location and pick up some clothes and take them to a place to be donated.
00:55:05
matt
hell yeah
00:55:06
Jamaal
If you feel so. And that goes, and I'll, as long as it's within that area, DC is Baltimore, and you have at least, the more clothes you have, the more inclined I'll be to come. And I think it's getting cold. And I think we have a lot of clothes and we waste a lot of money on clothes. And we also wear the same shit all the time. And we have a lot stuff that just sits. So if you have some, please go to the Apocalypse Does page, go to my page and talk to either one of us and we'll coordinate and we can come myself We'll pick up clothes or coordinate with any one of three of us. Matt is in Atlanta.
00:55:37
matt
yeah
00:55:37
Jamaal
So, of course, if you listen from there, you know, I'm sure something can be coordinated to donate to somewhere. We don't want to give to places that sell clothes.
00:55:43
matt
Totally.
00:55:46
Jamaal
That's the only criteria. We give the clothes not to people who sell them.
00:55:47
matt
A hundred percent. Yeah.
00:55:50
Jamaal
And, yeah, that's the only thing that I that i kind of wanted to plug because I think I've done it last year. And we there's a lot of clothes and people people could use them. and And it's not just for people that don't have homes.
00:56:01
Jamaal
It's people that have homes and kids and families that maybe want a nice jacket or coat. It's not just for someone sleeping outdoors. It's for someone that wants to buy something new that maybe you have that's cool and they could use and look and feel cool too.
00:56:08
Conor Fowler
Fuck yeah.
00:56:09
matt
Totally.
00:56:13
Jamaal
So i think that's cool.
00:56:13
Conor Fowler
Because so many of my, I mean, not to talk about my shit again, but like so many of my students didn't have coats at all, period. Like they had to wear the uniform, which was a polo and khakis.
00:56:27
Conor Fowler
And that's what they showed up to school in 30 degree weather.
00:56:31
matt
Yeah.
00:56:31
Jamaal
yeah it
00:56:31
matt
yeah Yep.
00:56:32
Conor Fowler
So it's a real thing. And I mean, as Jamal said, whether they are housed or not, The clothes are fucking expensive, so.
00:56:38
Jamaal
doesn't matter yeah for sure
00:56:40
matt
Exactly. But yeah, um everyone, thank you for listening. We are at ApocalypseDuds on Instagram, ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com. um I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
00:56:53
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
00:56:56
matt
And we will see you next Wednesday.