Transcript
Conor Fowler: Welcome, welcome to Apocalypse Duds, and this is a very, very special day indeed, as we say often. But today, really, we this will be our 90th episode, which is almost 100, which seems a little arbitrary, but that's like a century, a century's worth of episodes.
Conor Fowler: You could listen to an episode every year. um We have Jamal Turek on here, Tariq. Tariq, Jamal Tariq, and I fucked up his name, but I wanted to, I guess, I wanted to introduce everyone to our new producer.
matt: Yeah, yeah. the The third, well, I guess fourth-ish member, if we include Renato of the Apocalypse Duds team.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: So, yeah.
Jamaal: more deep
Conor Fowler: we met
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: We met because Jamal said something irresistible to me, which is, The show is great. And so I immediately knew we had to have him on board.
Jamaal: I was like, I was listening.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: that'
Jamaal: I'm like, hold the fuck on. like And I'm looking like, look at the followers and comments. I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. this is This is stupid. Like, what's what's going on here? Like, this is like, people need to listen to this.
matt: Well, we appreciate it. And yeah.
Conor Fowler: and we haven't paid him to say that.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: And he didn't pay us to do this interview.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: I didn't.
matt: Yeah. No, no one is getting paid in any so scenario.
Conor Fowler: yet No money has changed hands.
Jamaal: This is not sponsored on anybody's part from anywhere.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: No, no, we're, we all just do this for the love of the game. ah Speaking of which, just to throw it out there, we had and episode planned launch um the Wednesday of this week.
matt: And we had to scrap it for reasons. The guest pulled a little bit of a wool over our eyes type thing. And so, yeah, just we don't tolerate bullshit.
matt: And we're going introduce everyone to Jamal and have a good time.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
matt: All right, Jamal, man, where are you from and where are you now?
Jamaal: I am from New Jersey, um from Camden, New Jersey. So I guess I don't have to get into it, but I was born in Philadelphia. That's where my mother's from. I grew up my whole life in Camden and camed in the that's around area.
Jamaal: I'm little
matt: I mean, that's just like over the border, right?
Jamaal: Yes, it I could.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: So for my house, well, I actually do if I go back, I would sometimes for exercise, I would walk to the bridge and walk over Philly and walk back. So it's probably, I could walk to Philly in probably 30 minutes.
Jamaal: 40 minutes.
matt: Gotcha. Yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: still close.
matt: All right. Yeah. Still very close.
Jamaal: yeah I definitely recommend if you're ever in the area, a walk over the bridge. mean, you've probably all been on bridges, but it's just cool to walk over and just, you know, you can literally walk and get coffee. There's a couple of vintage shops literally right over the bridge. You can get breakfast.
Jamaal: It's just a nice, nice little experience.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Jamaal: Ben Franklin Bridge.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. And I've been, I've spent some time in New Jersey. Like I've been to Newark and Jersey city and I don't know. I mean, it's, uh, It's like a little, it's like a little place with a lot of places in it, of course.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So.
matt: Yeah, i think I think Jersey gets to like a worse rap than it really deserves because I've yeah um spent some time there.
Jamaal: yeah
matt: It's it's fun.
Jamaal: The armpit of America.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I haven't. No, let's see. That is Florida.
Jamaal: No, I thought it was, that's Florida?
Conor Fowler: I think it depends who you ask, but.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I would say if for Florida is way worse than Jersey, in my humble opinion.
Conor Fowler: I would agree. I would agree. I mean, you can like, they're kind of similar, you know, they're like, uh,
matt: Right, right.
matt: Well, you got a lot of Jersey transplants and snowbirds in Florida, so.
Jamaal: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Conor Fowler: well, it's like an aspirationally rich place.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: You know, it's like, people are not super rich.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: They're trying to be, which I think creates a certain climate.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: Right.
matt: Totally, totally. And so, yeah from Camden, um what's, what's the journey been like to now?
Jamaal: Um, so I bought my, when I bought my first house, um, in the suburbs, it wasn't in Camden. I, you know, moved out a little bit and bought the house, fixed it up, sold it. And I was like, you know, i want to come to a place, um, where I lived is Camden is ah black city.
Jamaal: I'm like, I want to come to a different city and invest in real estate. And so I came down here and bought a triplex with the money I made from the house. And that brought me to Baltimore. And I've been there since here, since,
Jamaal: 2020, I've been down here. think it's one the...
matt: All right. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamaal: yeah
matt: I mean, I've, we've talked about it a lot. Connor loves Baltimore. I've very much enjoy and and dig Baltimore's vibe too. So thank you.
Jamaal: aye i think it's one of the best small big cities in the in the country. I haven't been to them all, but it has this packed ton ah full of of culture and arts and just all, whatever thing you could want from a city, obviously New York and you know other places, but like whatever you could want from a city, you could find it here.
Conor Fowler: San Francisco, whatever.
Conor Fowler: We have own symphony orchestra.
Jamaal: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: ah feel like that's not like, uh, I don't know what else, what else is a similar size city? Like Toledo, Ohio doesn't have a symphony orchestra.
Jamaal: I would imagine that.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: There's a lot of old money in Baltimore that I think creates a lot of art, a lot of culture.
Conor Fowler: it's like, a that's like a super double-edged sword, right?
Jamaal: I enjoy it.
Conor Fowler: Like philanthropy, as they call it.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: Right. Right.
Conor Fowler: But that's another, that's another bird.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah What about the weather in Baltimore at the moment?
Jamaal: Today,
Conor Fowler: Yes.
Jamaal: It's chillier than it should be. I think it's only going to be like 50 or in the 40s today.
Conor Fowler: It's fucking freezing.
Jamaal: So it's fifty or in know in the forty s today
Conor Fowler: Oh my God. No, it's 42 and windy, super windy. So it's like,
Jamaal: so it
Conor Fowler: This is like the kind of weather where you need to wear an outfit specifically.
Jamaal: for the weather. You can't just put stuff together. You have to be considerate of the weather, which I like, because I think in terms of putting clothes on, I think that is like, not the the top of the triangle, but that to me is the culmination of how creative you are.
Jamaal: If it's hot as hell, if it's cold, you can still, whatever your vibe is, present your vibe. No matter what the temperature is, rain and cold snow, and you can still do your thing. So I very much embrace
Conor Fowler: I think cold is pretty easy.
Jamaal: Cold is easy, yeah. But cold and rainy, that's the bean.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, I warm, yeah, it's a little bit warmer here today, but our, our temperature in Atlanta was about like that yesterday.
Conor Fowler: Which baneful weather.
matt: I got to wear my fishtail for the first time this year, or for the first time for this fall, winter.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I haven't broken mine out yet.
Jamaal: I think I might be the only one that doesn't... I don't have a fishtail parker.
matt: You, you need to get on the, yeah, that's, the that's like the officially on or the ah unofficially official, uh, apocalypse duds garment.
Conor Fowler: You got to get one if you're going to be a part of this thing. I mean, it's...
Jamaal: Yeah. Yeah, i don't i don't I don't have one. i do I do love a long, long military jacket. i mean, so how how are they in terms of, like, it's not a warm jacket.
matt: well Well, if you put, you can put a liner in it and like I use the the original M51 liners are heavy as shit.
Jamaal: It's more of like 50 degree tops. Oh, okay.
matt: they They weigh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: matt advised me a Matt advised me buying it. And of course I bought it anyway. And it's like, it must weigh 15 pounds.
Jamaal: because I've seen those because I have just a regular M51 and it has the buttons.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: I'm like, maybe I'll buy it one day. So you said, don't do it.
matt: Yeah. So, though Well, those, yeah.
Conor Fowler: The liner is warm.
matt: Like the liner is very warm.
Conor Fowler: Very, very warm.
matt: For me, I use a Vietnam liner because they're interchangeable and it's the but like quilted nylon.
Jamaal: Yeah. That's the quilted one. okay
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: This is where the this is where the the truths of the show come out, right?
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: like
Jamaal: I think Matt, you're talking about the kind, like, not, it doesn't, it has like a ah sheepskin cream look to it, kind of like, okay.
matt: Well, that's the first version. And then the second one is like a wool cotton terry cloth. That's a little, a little bit lighter.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: um I think this would,
Conor Fowler: They have like a sateen one too, right? Like ah like an olive sateen one that has like S quilting on it.
matt: ah uh, I don't know what you're talking about, but the only quilted ones I know of are, are the nylon quilted, like the,
Conor Fowler: I feel like I've seen that as a liner, like as a jacket liner.
Jamaal: i think I think you guys are talking about the same thing, I feel like.
matt: Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: It's all, it's all abstract.
Conor Fowler: the again.
matt: Yes.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: that's the like ah that's the show again
matt: That is the show.
Jamaal: The leather, actually don't know what I'm going wear now because I was just going wear this, but this is not good for it.
matt: Uh,
Jamaal: It's just a jean jacket.
Conor Fowler: Oh, no, you can't do the denim jacket in this shit. I mean...
Jamaal: So I got to find a medium coat to wear that's longer than this, so whatevs.
Conor Fowler: i would advise the fishtail parka, but it would be weird if we were all wearing one. It would very much look like we were preparing work preparing for something bad.
Jamaal: Yeah, I know. That would be interesting. Like, what's more these guys? Did you plan this? No, we didn't plan this. We just like Fishtail Parkers.
Conor Fowler: Right, exactly.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: It's like the Olive Drab Clan.
matt: Right. we' We're the mods. ah
Conor Fowler: Right. Right.
matt: So growing up in in New Jersey, um the you know, what kind of clothing did you did you see around you? What kind of like were the first, you know, things that you were noticing when you started to get into clothes?
Jamaal: I kind of got, I guess I have a different, different way to answer that because I've only recently, i've always liked clothes. I've always liked them, but taking them as serious is fairly recent.
Jamaal: When I was young, it was mostly like streetwear because I'll be 39.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: So when I was younger, it was like the early nineties. So was a streetwear brand was Maurice Malone.
matt: Oh yeah.
Jamaal: Um, that was a streetwear brand and most of the popular stuff. I think FUBU was, was big then.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Starter jackets.
Jamaal: Starter jackets, I think Conor may know, like Nike boots in that DC area.
Conor Fowler: South Pole.
Jamaal: and we We had those for a bit. So just very much, I guess you would you assume from whatever was you would see on TV from nineteen ninety s hip hop.
matt: Yeah,
Jamaal: and to thought That was probably what baggy jeans, boots, you know. But, I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't have, we had food all of time. I didn't have, we didn't have a lot of money. So I wasn't having a lot of that stuff.
Jamaal: I had a couple things, couple pair of jeans and a handful of shirts and a couple pair of shoes.
matt: yeah. yeah
Jamaal: But it was like the shoe weapon.
Conor Fowler: And there's like, and one there's like other like sort of knockoff brands, all of that stuff.
Jamaal: Yes. And one. Yeah, and one was one. Yeah. I specifically remember, ah I think I must have been like 11 or 12 or something. i played football.
Jamaal: And I played football with guys who were a year or two older. And when you're 12, 12 to 14 is a very large gap, even though it's only two years.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Jamaal: So their guys are a little bigger, mature. They're probably talking about girls. I'm talking about girls, too, but like not not going on dates and stuff or that stuff.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jamaal: And I remember just having this long sleeve yellow Maurice Malone shirt with a label on it and some black jeans. And I was like, I look really cool. And I always think about that. Like, I don't know if I really did look that cool.
Conor Fowler: oh
Jamaal: It
Conor Fowler: but So that's a perfect, that's perfectly into the next question. Um, do you remember the first article of clothing, garment, whatever, that made you feel different, that made you feel special?
Jamaal: made me feel special. I think I'm like a late bloomer. So i think I think I still have it. This was probably maybe 10 years ago. I got from Lanza and Canvas.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: I found, found ah when I lost weight, actually, y I had to double back. I was like At one point, to like 250.
Jamaal: And yeah, I was, you know, I'm an evenly distributed weight guy, but that's a lot of pounds.
matt: Dang, yeah.
matt: Right, right.
Jamaal: over And I think I lost weight. And at that point I was buying everything as slim as possible. I was buying it. Like I don't, if it was like shredding, I don't care if I can button it.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jamaal: So I was doing that and I started buying some chinos from Dockers and they were slim fit and they were, they were slim. They were very slim, but I thought I looked sharp as hell.
Jamaal: I really, really, I hadn't been like,
matt: Okay.
Jamaal: A burgundy color, a red color, a blue, a khaki, a dark khaki. I remember really, really loving those. I still love pants. I think that's my favorite thing is pants, but I remember those dockers khakis. I had like five colors of the exact same pants.
Conor Fowler: The D the D one, I feel like that was their like sizing nomenclature at that time was like D one D two D three in terms of like tapering.
matt: right
Jamaal: D1? one Yeah, i don't i don't remember. I think they had regular sizes. They were...
Conor Fowler: Well, I mean like in terms of the fits, not like 33 by 30, but like,
Jamaal: Oh, yeah, it was, yeah, it was slim tapered.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah. Yeah. It was such a big deal when Docker started making like
Jamaal: but
matt: you know, kind of trendy pants in the like 2010s. It's so funny so funny to me.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I remember that.
Jamaal: but They were so small. All my clothes were so small. I'm not ashamed because it happens and you go through stuff, but like, everything was so small.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jamaal: Why?
Conor Fowler: But that's just, yeah.
matt: we are We all did it.
Conor Fowler: I mean, it just, like, you couldn't have gone back in time, right?
Jamaal: yeah
Conor Fowler: And said, like, whatever, here's, like, an iPad with, like, a bunch of, like, images on it. Like, here's people, like, not wearing that shit anymore. No one would believe you.
Jamaal: Yeah. if Right, true.
Conor Fowler: Everyone would be like, no, no, no. no no no no no It'll be slim until we are all gone.
Jamaal: no, you're right. You're making that shit. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Even though we know fashion is cyclical.
Jamaal: It is, because I think people, skinny jeans are absolutely fine. I'm not one of those people that say, you have, no, like, wear what you like.
matt: yeah
Jamaal: I don't wear them because it makes sense to wear spacious pants. Like, just for, like, practicality reasons. It makes sense.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: But the skinny jeans absolutely have a place, but like my my knees would hurt.
Conor Fowler: I think that the skinny, i think personally, like skinny is like too far.
Jamaal: and
Conor Fowler: You can have like 514, Levi 514, whatever, like slim, straight, fine. But as soon as it's like this constricting, like that's bad.
Jamaal: That was a sausage.
Conor Fowler: doesn't look good.
matt: yeah Yeah. Well, ah you know, skin skinny is now the mainstream thing. So. it's you know It's the people that that aren't you know that aren't from major cities and things that are keeping this going.
matt: And you know and it it applies to suiting too.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: like You go into Macy's or whatever you know department store that's just like basic shit and it's the stuff that that was like kind of edgy you know when we were or back a decade or so ago.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: but Maybe a little bit less or a little bit more than that, but
Jamaal: Yeah, I guess the the time ran through, but then on look like the lapels were like this skinny. Like it was its a wild time.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: No, yeah. but like
Jamaal: actually had actually had a jacket like that.
Conor Fowler: Oh, me too. I mean, I remember buying some lands and canvas stuff and my dad, I forced my dad to help me move the buttons on the cuffs because they were too like loose.
Conor Fowler: And he this is fucking crazy.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like, why would you do this? Who on earth would do this?
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Who cares? Who Who cares about this? But it's like me.
Jamaal: I love Languages and Canvas. I still have a like ah no, they went defunct in
Conor Fowler: Are they still making it? Like, yeah, I thought it was over.
Jamaal: yeah
Conor Fowler: It was a good line. I mean, like as far as ah those sort of modernized, sort of trendied, things,
Conor Fowler: brands for old heritage brands. Like, I feel like that was like probably one of the best executed ones, but
Jamaal: Yeah.
Jamaal: It was, I thought. Well, at the time, I didn't i didn't know. I didn't know about tailoring. I had some bad fitting suit jackets too. If not bad fitting, just very, not, I guess it happens with the times, short, and now I know no better.
Jamaal: But yeah, they were they were one of my favorites. I thought they did a a cool blend. They offered cool colors and textures that went for when I was shopping for stuff. It wasn't on my area because I was coming from streetwear and everything skinny and drop hem shirts and stuff like that.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yes.
Jamaal: So, you know.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yes. But sort of taught like the new age tall T.
Jamaal: Yeah, it was.
Conor Fowler: Which like young thug is like is like famous for, you know, $10,000 white T-shirt that looks like a dress. Just good. Good stuff.
Jamaal: makes no sense
matt: So how how did your, you know, how does your aesthetic start start taking shape? Like, it seems like it's been an evolution, but was there, you know what was that kind of like, oh, this is where it's going moment?
Jamaal: i would say that's probably something very very recent it especially since um i don't particularly i love I do love Ivy style and I love how it looks on people, but like, I'm not a full on Ivy guy. I'm not a full on, I'm not really into street wear much, but at one point I kind of was like, you kind of have to fit a mold, but I'm like, I like i just like so many so many different kinds of clothes.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: oh
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: So it it was, I guess, recently where I started exploring more, like within the last two years, exploring more. And I think one day, probably a couple years ago before I met my wife, I was out going to out to dinner and looking around.
Jamaal: And shoes, what you wear on your feet are very transformative in terms of how you look and what you wear and your aesthetic.
matt: oh
Jamaal: And I came from a time where it was, I wasn't wearing Jordans because that was over when I was in my twenty early twenty s But I just had a lot of regular sneakers. I had nothing casual. So when I would go out to dinner, at one point I was thinking, like, I want to look nice when I out with my wife or my girlfriend.
Jamaal: Like, I want to look, like, elevated, not like jeans and a t-shirt or a polo. And that, I think a couple years ago, kind of, like, snapped at me. And I started the journey of looking for footwear and got my first pair of, like, loafers and it kind of like just went from there. And now I'm kind of like realizing, well, I don't have an aesthetic that I like. It's just, I love all kinds of clothes and I love mixing them. I love mixing things. And it's not new because i think even Ivy style is about comfortable and somewhat mixing things.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: But, you know, I literally will wear, only thing I probably don't wear much is athletic sneakers outside of Chuck's and make some new balance.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: But outside of that, I just, I really enjoy mixing things and and having fun with it. And that's my only kind of like thing about my style. Like it just has to feel good and be fun. And I want it to be a little, a little funky, not a whole bunch of funky, just a little funky. And yeah, it's been a, it's been a journey and I love it. I've been enjoying it.
Conor Fowler: that's like kind of this, one of the strengths of Ivy style as it is like, it is a mix of all of them, you know, like there's your heritage stuff, your militaria, your like Americana stuff, whatever. I mean, you can wear like Italian tailoring if you want, and it can be Ivy too. You just have to do it the right way. Right.
Jamaal: Right, except except black, because it's is black Ivy?
Conor Fowler: um
Jamaal: Like the color black?
matt: Black top.
Conor Fowler: I think that it's, I think that it's,
matt: Black.
Conor Fowler: fear boatten And I didn't make up the rule, but I do kind of subscribe to it. Like, I don't know anything that is black. I have one pair of black shoes, black cap toes, thousand mile Wolverine, but they're awkward.
matt: The black, the black silk knit tie is definitely Ivy.
Jamaal: yeah but
matt: So.
Jamaal: Black, okay, all right.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: But that's like the, but that's like the one element that is that tone.
matt: Oh, and I mean black cap toe, like, know, shoes too.
Jamaal: ah Yeah, black shoes. But in terms of like tops and bottoms, like i know black like pants that...
Conor Fowler: Black Pants is like your coded waiter, coded your like Best Buy employee.
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah, your black shirt is really weird. If you wearing in a black shirt, that's really strange.
matt: and And to be fair, like black formal or like suiting and tailored clothing and shit, it just kind of looks bad.
Jamaal: Yeah, for sure.
matt: Like across the board, I've started to wear black pants and things of that nature. I've been mixing a lot of black and brown, um which I think is a really cool combo. like But it's but as casual.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, i think black and brown I think black and brown looks great together.
Jamaal: No,
Conor Fowler: And I think that that's like kind of the only excuse to wear black at all is to do that to break that rule.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Right. But like, you know, I would never in my life wear a black suit.
Conor Fowler: no
Jamaal: no i guess unless...
Conor Fowler: One of the first suits that I bought was a black suit. I was in Georgetown and I got like conned into buying this suit from this sort of quasi-Italian suit place.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Well, I think for, you know, for a lot of people that don't know the quote unquote rules of ah shit that like we do, they're not nerds about things like a black, a black suit makes sense.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: This was an old Italian guy who knew, but it was still like, it was the only 34 in the place.
matt: You know,
matt: he should have. Yeah.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: And so he wanted to sell it to me because it would fit.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: And it did look excellent, but it was black.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So I went back and bought a Navy one.
matt: Yeah, and I mean, when you would you get into more of like high fashion shit, like a black suit, like a Hades Le Mane Dior suit, I think people can rock that and look awesome.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Jamaal: yeah
matt: It's just, yeah, just like in ah in an actual, you know, more Ivy classic, whatever you want to say, like a black suit just does not make sense.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah. Yeah, my first suit was actually a ah black suit. I got it from Urban Outfitters.
matt: Oh yeah, makes sense, makes sense.
Conor Fowler: No, and that's the like, that's the like casual suit, right?
Jamaal: i still I still have the jacket. I don't have the pants because they're way too slim, but i can I can still wear the jacket right now. I got it like probably in like 2012 or something. I still had, I don't know why. Like, bro, give it away. that You can't even wear that. It's right it's short.
Jamaal: But back then, I guess, um the cheaper brand, not cheaper brands, let me not say that because I don't believe in that kind of stuff. They were putting, for some reason, functional button cuffs on stuff because I got jackets from Target that have functional cuffs.
Conor Fowler: H&M was big into the functional button cut.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Jamaal: Now a brands, they won't they won't dare waste their time and money putting functional cuffs, even though they don't add anything to a jacket. I don't think they add anything because we don't use we don't roll the cuffs up They don't add anything.
Conor Fowler: I think the option is good. Like you can do that. That's an insane flex, right? If you're like sweating and you're wearing your like cashmere or silk jacket or whatever, and you've rolled up your sleeves for some reason, good for you.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Jamaal: But in terms of selling selling and tailoring, I can't, you can tailor the sleeves.
Conor Fowler: No, it damns the jacket, right?
Jamaal: You can't, take but it's like, it would cost way too much. It wouldn't make any sense to take it. Like, cause I tailor most of my sleeves cause they're too long.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: So it wouldn't, I couldn't do it.
matt: Yeah, yeah. what working Working buttonholes on ready-to-wear jackets, just like... I know LBM and, like, some of...
Conor Fowler: It's their house style, basically.
matt: Well, some of it that has been explained to me years ago was, like, the way that their dyeing process works. Like, it would... It has to be done on some fabrics. I don't know why.
Jamaal: Thank
matt: But, like, yeah...
Conor Fowler: Yeah, i've you've said that before and I'm still like, okay I mean, I buy it, but I won' i don't understand it mechanically.
matt: Yeah, i don't same, but like, you know, and maybe, maybe this, the, you know, the rep was just talking out of his ass, but like, it just does not make sense.
Conor Fowler: Well, just purely from a you can't really alter it, that's bad.
matt: Right. Oh yeah, totally.
Jamaal: Cause I bought, I just bought a denim suit from J. Crew for my birthday and wife got the jacket. I bought the pants and they have functioning cups and they are a bit long, probably like to here.
Jamaal: So I'm like, ah, so like, I can't tell them.
matt: Oh.
Jamaal: So I'll probably just end up like rolling up on some, like I'll just roll it up.
Conor Fowler: You got to roll them It's going to look great on you.
Jamaal: in
Conor Fowler: i know this that I know the thing that you're talking about. I mean,
Jamaal: Yeah. Yeah. So I'll just roll it up and it'll just be like a, like a flex, I guess.
Conor Fowler: it's like a, it's a, it adds visual dimension.
Jamaal: It's visually, it's it's a thing to see, and I guess...
Conor Fowler: It's like, it shows you, it shows that you are using the clothes.
Jamaal: Yeah, it definitely it definitely it definitely does.
Jamaal: That's true. I think um I do like the practicality when they are used in a way because we don't do that anymore. We just wear clothes because we like them, which is totally like that's dope. Like you don't got to use the the rock climbing clothes to go rock climbing.
Jamaal: You can just wear your pants up the street to get to pick up your kid from their baby to babysitter or something.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: if you want That's cool, too.
Conor Fowler: Right. So we're perfectly going along with the questions here. um Do you so we've talked about style as a way to communicate dressing as a way to communicate?
Conor Fowler: What are you trying to communicate? What are you trying to convey?
Jamaal: i I'll be like a... um Because i um i do agree that we would communicate things with what we wear.
Jamaal: Personally, for me, What I'm communicating is only that I want to look as nice as possible in whatever I'm wearing and wherever I'm going. And it's literally just for me. It's not communicating anything to anyone else except that guy has nice clothes. That is plainly it because I don't believe in um and in any aspect of any sort of level of respectability in dress.
Jamaal: Because there are rat bastard people that wear a suit. And then there are people that will sleep on the street because it the last thing they had before they got homeless was the suit. And that's what they're sleeping in. So i don't think that, and that's an extreme example, but just don't believe in the like,
Jamaal: I don't believe in it, but like the thing that's overarchingly going through the menswear space the last couple of years, like it communicates something and it does. But with people's perception, you can't change people's perception. Like there are certain things people are just going to think about you regardless of what you wearing or not.
Jamaal: And you can't force it with what clothes you're wearing. So I choose to not communicate with my clothes to anybody except myself which is i like this and it looks good and i hope someone says that's nice and if they don't that's cool but that is it that's nice not that guy knows ivy style or he knows this or that's a cool tight whatever jacket that neckerchief is this or those are some cool military pants i don't care do i look nice yes do i like it yes and i think um yeah not i not hate that but it easily leads to where a lot of our clothes got their basis in, which can which you know can largely be traced back to you know war and military, which is fine, but also classism and elitism.
matt: Totally.
Jamaal: And I think that's what it is because that's what, when you think of a suit, no matter what time period suits, less wealthy people wore suits at one point.
Conor Fowler: it can get It can get icky for sure. um
Jamaal: But then at one point there is a suit you wore in certain colors that meant something. And i I just don't, where it comes from, I don't like it. So I just don't even, you know, to me, I don't do that. But if other people do, I think if something means, to suit mean something to them, like a strong structure, shoulder suit means that you're a Wall Street guy or something and knock yourself out.
matt: Right, right.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. I think honestly, like in the year, you know, 2025, it doesn't fucking matter and it shouldn't matter to anyone.
Jamaal: I 100% it does to some people.
Conor Fowler: Well, but it does though. So much it does.
matt: and know I know it does, but like it it shouldn't is what I'm saying.
Jamaal: No, it shouldn't.
matt: 100%.
Jamaal: It shouldn't.
Conor Fowler: Of course not. Well, so much of like, when you see a person, you shouldn't judge them for any metric other than that one.
matt: yeah hundred percent
Conor Fowler: Are they a human? Are they not a human? And this is where we kind of get down into the weeds for some reason, because there are people who don't believe that other people are humans, even though they obviously are.
matt: Yeah, 100%.
Jamaal: Yeah, and i I think clothing is one of the least things that someone should be judged for.
matt: yeah
Jamaal: You can feel free to judge people for a lot of things, but the clothes they're wearing, I don't think that's a ah one that I would want to fall in based on clothes.
matt: yeah a hundred percent so do you you know, you're, you're kind of like roots community that you've been a part of and lived experience. Does that show up in how you, you know, how you dress and, and kind of see the things and find the things that you think are cool?
Jamaal: As I'm getting older, a little bit, I was ah went home like this past year for Thanksgiving, and I was going through a, my mom and dad did a fantastic job, or my mom probably, of like just taking lots of photos.
Jamaal: And there was a picture of my dad in a bar, and he was wearing, I can't tell what kind of shirt, it was like a pink, button-up shirt. I want to say, I don't know. i don't know what the material, but had a nice flow to it and like some light wash blue jeans and like some sort of like brown loafers.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Jamaal: And as I'm getting older and my dad passed, so I don't get to pick his brain and talk to him about that kind of stuff. But seeing pictures now, um, I'm starting to, and like I thrift shop a lot. My dad always, when I was younger, always was talking about clearance. And I'd be like, what are you talking about? Like, why are you so cheap? And now like it makes it makes total sense.
Jamaal: And now starting to connect more as I'm getting older, um, with kind of like how my dad did things and shop, but my, um, style wise, not much, but just that whole thing of of being an older man and like falling into like, what's that commercial with the Allstate where they're don't act like your parents or whatever it is.
Jamaal: Like,
matt: Oh yeah.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamaal: I'm starting to act like my parents in terms of what they view and value. And it and it it definitely shows up and in how I dress and how I how i shop. Because my dad was always – I hated clearance.
matt: Totally.
Jamaal: Like, why would I want to buy the cheap stuff? This is the this is the stuff that no one wants. This stuff sucks.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: That's why we're selling it for cheap. And now I'm like, I'll take it. You know, it's cheap.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah, I'll thrift. I'll buy secondhand and –
matt: Dude. My first pair of Chucks were $5 clearance ones at JCPenney because in 1990, that probably would have been around 93 or so, like no no one in my tiny town was buying fucking Chuck Taylors.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Jamaal: No? And Chucks?
matt: no Yeah, not not back then, but
Jamaal: i thought I thought everyone loved Chucks everywhere.
Conor Fowler: No, they were like maligned as a whatever, right? Like as the like bottom tier shoe.
Jamaal: Bottom tier basketball kind of like, yeah.
matt: yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this was, you know, around the same time that like Abercrombie and American Eagle was cut like ascending, you know, so like, like fourth grade and little like punk rock, all kid and me. I was like, oh yeah, dude. Purple Chucks for $5. Sign up. Yeah.
matt: sign me up
Conor Fowler: a goodbye.
Jamaal: Yeah, I definitely, when I was that, I guess in that type of age, I was, think, wearing Jordans. And that's when I was in third and fourth grade, and my sneaks were cheap.
matt: yeah
Jamaal: So I had all the Jordans, but of course, in like two or three years. i'm gonna close I'm going to close this blind, because this sign is ridiculous. Excuse me.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, no, you're well not you're allowed. um Now we've got a close-up of the neckerchief.
Jamaal: Oh, yeah, has foxes on it. don't if can.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: Very good. Yeah, look at that.
Jamaal: Yeah, I got it from a vintage place in Hyattsville, which is not not far from ah DC.
Conor Fowler: That's nice. I like a fox.
Jamaal: It's pretty close.
Conor Fowler: College Park.
Jamaal: um Yes, it's close to College Park. yeah it's Well, there I guess Hyattsville and College Park are adjacent.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's where my family is from. so like, I know that whole Bladensburg area.
Jamaal: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: What is, a what are your inspirations? I mean, are there people, movies, books?
Jamaal: So I don't have inspirations from people because, well, no, because I tried to like, just something's getting older. I tried to, in the world is a way, I try to give the things and people in my community flowers. And I feel like a lot of, some people will look to celebrity or people that they can't touch and feel. And most things I can touch and feel are the inspiration. and um So ah I'll see kind of wearing something or mat or a lot of times i've what I see is I'll see, I've walked by like large doors and churches or something like and will take that as inspiration sometimes. So I'm more into like textures and colors that out that I'll see.
Jamaal: And I have so much clothes that sometimes taking inspiration from too many people just makes a mess of me because my room is an absolute mess. But yeah, mostly i like to take it from almost anything, just not the famous people.
Jamaal: That's not my bag because I think...
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: Because I think that a lot of times people just look extra regular. And because they have... Like, if I can say man that's not an attractive man, if they had lots of money, they'd be like, oh, look at Mr. Ugly Jamal.
Jamaal: He has on the best sweater you've ever seen. So I definitely don't take it from...
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jamaal: from um celebrities but now i'm in the space like it's too many people to even name like i'm just flipping through stuff and i'm just screenshotting uh but definitely a lot in the menswear space and just from textures and colors i see in nature i'll stop being my wife take a picture of something and be like that that that combination or that texture looks looks interesting so just from really yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: Colors and textures, colors and textures right now. Like what?
Jamaal: So that pink, is that what, or is that that color? I love how, like how it's not a bright pink. It's not a sharp pink.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's a soft, it's like a soft pink.
Jamaal: It's a soft pink. So I think, is
Conor Fowler: It's what we use for the Linktree. It's that, it's that pink color.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's like, yeah.
Jamaal: And there's some green back there too and brown and just the naturey, the green look. So like something like that, which is actually, I'm wearing a little green, got a little red in there. um But yeah, take it from, i think, anything, because I think that's what people that that enjoy putting clothes on.
Jamaal: It doesn't matter. It can be any single thing that you've you've ever seen or be reminded of. And I woke up and early in the morning after I worked out and like scribbled notes. Literally, I had stuff on my phone that just says ah red top graphic tee that I may have seen on somebody and kind of just incorporated into what I may enjoy.
matt: so that
Conor Fowler: Um, go on.
matt: So there there's a question that I don't, this might, I think this is the first time that we've ever asked it, but ah Connor came up with it and I think it's it's a perfect ah question for you.
matt: In a world obsessed with visibility and hype, what does integrity and fashion look like to you?
Jamaal: Ooh, that, who came up that question?
matt: Connor.
Jamaal: that's that's That's a good question I can ramble on for days, integrity.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I thought this was I basically I mean, of course, I wrote this question for you, but this is the one that I was really like, OK, this is one for him.
Jamaal: So
Jamaal: so
Jamaal: I guess I have to, for people in the public eye, because I think we have to put goal posts on it because you can just kind of go off on a tangent. For people that are in the public eye, um I think integrity looks like simply really wearing the clothes for you and the purpose that you like.
Jamaal: whatever that Whatever that is. i you know I don't know what it ever is for everyone, but wearing clothes for you. And I think some of that integrity, and we see that a lot, it it gets eroded. when when Anytime you in introduce money,
Jamaal: and and or fame and or love or likes into something, it can erode you because then you start to do things slightly differently than you would otherwise.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: And it takes you away from just what your original purpose would have been, which is I just like I like, so some people just like, yeah, I like ah sets. I like to wear matching sweatshirt and about and bottom with athleticism. I just like that. and then you're changing into wearing some avant-garde stuff with logos.
Jamaal: So I think it looks like, and to be frank, man, this is something that is kind of not on the question. I think if you're in the public space and doing this in public and people are giving you money, however that works, or giving you stuff,
Jamaal: and you tell people that they should also do or buy or what you do,
Jamaal: I don't want to say a harsh thing that's despicable because I don't think it's despicable. We're talking about clothes here. no one's going to die.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jamaal: But people do spend their hard-earned money on stuff because of what other people say. And they, you know, I think people take should take that, but should take it more seriously than they do because people really put people in the public eye and in the pedestal and do whatever they say. And you end up either wasting your money wasting your time, which I think is the big one in facing journey is the fun part is looking back and saying those lapels, that suit suck. Those shoes suck. That's the, that's the fun part.
Jamaal: Like that's the thing that you're wearing now. you didn't you couldn't You wouldn't be there 10 years ago. And you wouldn't be here without that and vice versa. And I think all of that is part of it.
Jamaal: And I think people want to cut that out and try to package it and sell it to other people and say, this is what you should be doing.
matt: Right. Right.
Jamaal: um So I think integrity, literally, just do what you like and be true to you, which there are some people that I see that you can just tell. Are they still taking stuff and selling stuff? Probably.
Jamaal: um Damn it, this sun.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
Jamaal: ah But yeah, there are people that that do it, and then there are people that you can just tell they're just clear shilling for money.
matt: right
Jamaal: And it and that makes me and that makes me sad because especially for ah for for guys, less for women. We didn't grow up wanting to look away.
Jamaal: Women, because of a bunch of things that we can get into, but it would be it would go on forever. always was told to look away nice for whomever we, you know, we don't want go down there, but men, it's not, you just be strong.
matt: right dude's dude's gonna pass on i mean
Jamaal: Yeah, kilt.
Conor Fowler: I think that's kind of true. i think that's kind of true, but it's like, try wearing a skirt, you know, that's not going to fly.
matt: well oh yeah and i'm saying right well i mean that's that's also like you know it's it comes down to a lot of things that
Jamaal: yeah a kilt
matt: are are connected to clothing, but, you know, gender roles and things of that nature, which we don't, like Jamal said, that could go on forever. But, you know, like, I feel like anyone that's, that is raised as a woman is, is very much like, you know, you have to, you have to do this and that and that and that.
Jamaal: Okay.
matt: And like most stuff for dudes, you know, like our parents were not wearing, ah really cool shit. You know, our dad, know, was in like a shirt and pants and boots or sneakers and that's about it So it's like, yeah, that bar is pretty fucking low for dudes for the most part.
Jamaal: okay
Jamaal: Yeah, it it definitely is. And be like because, it like you were saying, you were raised as a woman, like, I guess it's because of man strong and men have to domineer. So you look pretty for men and men, you do whatever you want.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: So we're...
matt: Yeah. it's It's definitely, there's definitely a power imbalance in this situation.
Jamaal: so we
Jamaal: Yeah. So then like, not, not to say that that's, you know, Oh, poor us. We don't know how to wear clothes. Cause we don't, we haven't been doing it for so long. But like, then that leaves men in a space where they, then they feel a way about feeling a way about their clothes. Like I want to feel a way nice with my clothes. Like, Oh, that's this or that. Like,
Jamaal: it's It's just clothes. And then even more expression, like people painting their nails. I don't paint my nails and i that I would never paint them, but I don't care if someone paints their nails.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: and I would even say if I see it, like, oh, bro, like the way you got your nails painted with with this and that, like, that looks cool.
matt: Yeah, it same.
Jamaal: And I think it's literally just painting just expression, another form of expression with your clothes and how you put stuff on to express yourself. And I think it's painting men in such a, it's putting us in such a, it's making us,
Jamaal: it's bringing the weakness that's inside of some of us to the surface, which is we don't do, you know, some, a lot of, some of us men are weak because we lash out against something that we just like, come on, paint your nails.
matt: Right, right.
Jamaal: Like, I'm like, come on, like be serious.
matt: Right. i wish I wish I had as much time and energy as some people seem to have. the You know what I mean? Like, yeah.
Conor Fowler: For hatred, for hatred.
Jamaal: Yeah. No, thank you.
matt: Yeah. Like, I mean, i would never I would never be that person, but it's like, dude, you know, I was talking about this with a friend of mine last night. Like, yeah he was talking about comments, like negative comments that he gets on some of his like um reels that he posts.
matt: And I was like, who has the fucking energy to like argue on Instagram?
Conor Fowler: Seriously.
Jamaal: Yeah. I talked to my my wife about something, which I think I have. ah i don't think it's interesting at all, but maybe just ah approach that a perspective of, you know, when you put yourself online and you happen to get some money or fame or whatever it is, people say mostly, I would assume mostly good things.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Jamaal: And people say bad things. And I kind of think we you kind of like if you've amassed something, a following for yourself and people say mostly good things, you should expect people to say bad things and it should be totally fine.
Jamaal: And sometimes people cross a line and make a career out of but of being a hater. And that's that's weird. I think because even saying something like I would rather not say if I see an outfit on somebody online and say, yeah, like,
matt: Right. Yeah, same. same
Jamaal: Bro, that one's kind of ass. Like, don't like that. I probably just wouldn't say nothing.
matt: Yeah, exactly.
Jamaal: But I think people should feel free to say that if they like, because if people can say nice things, they can certainly say something like that, as long as it's not harmful.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: Like, hey, I want hurt your kids.
matt: Right, right.
Jamaal: But yeah, it's people that make a ah kind of like, you like, oh, that's such and such. He's always down there saying whatever. Like, that's like that's so silly.
matt: Truly.
matt: So we, we, oh yeah, go for
Jamaal: yeah And I think to finish off, I think men have to do a better job of policing men in how we express ourselves.
Jamaal: Of course, for women as well, but for each other. Like, if you see someone saying something about another dude away, whatever, like, we need to a better job of checking them so we can, like, live freely and paint our nails if we like, or wear, if you want to wear a skirt or whatever, or anything in between to feel freely to do so.
matt: Yeah. hundred percent 100%.
Conor Fowler: Fuck yeah.
matt: It's positive masculinity. so
Conor Fowler: Right.
Jamaal: Yes, yes.
Conor Fowler: Put a fucking stamp on it.
Jamaal: Yeah, because men cry, men do, men nurture, are nurturing. Men are a lot of the same things that that that women are.
Conor Fowler: ask for directions. can fucking, like, befriend a woman.
Jamaal: I won't go that far. I won't ask for directions.
Conor Fowler: There's so much.
Jamaal: You've gone too far.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Jamaal: You've gone too far. i'll circle I'll circle around the block for an hour.
Conor Fowler: I was going to say, well, I will ask the directions on your behalf.
Jamaal: That's too far.
Jamaal: It stops there, but everything else is spot on.
matt: Totally. Uh, so what's the, what's the ratio kind of, of new to secondhand stuff in your wardrobe?
Jamaal: o
matt: Cause we, I know you bought a couple of things that you were just kind of like, oh, this, I think it was a Bronson jacket that you posted ah few weeks back or something.
Jamaal: Yeah, I got a ah jungle jacket from yeah jungle jacket from not guy a while back. Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, and I feel like you you buy things to kind of test out if they're if they're cool when and worth, you know, worth the price.
Jamaal: yeah I'm probably, I think it's going more thrift, but I'm thinking um I'll probably 70, 65, 35 or 70, 30, I think new to thrift probably. Yeah, I would say 65, 35. I mean, a lot of stuff I buy is now is is getting more and more because I realized I can just get some some crazy nice stuff.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamaal: ah for much cheaper but am always in J.Crew's clearance section when they get 70% off I've gotten I got a full like tropical wool suit for like a hundred bucks of course
matt: Yeah, I mean, honestly, that's not that dissimilar from some thrifting at this point in life.
Conor Fowler: Right, seriously.
Jamaal: a yeah yeah
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: for sure. Especially when, i know for me, I always have to, not always, but well, you're always going to get the pants hems because they're always too long and usually get the waist taken in too.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: So that he kind of tells me all the time, like, bro, like you need to use different tailor because my tailor would be knocking me over the head. But I'm like, I'm scared because the stuff I buy, if I do thrift it, I really, really enjoy it. And a bad tailor will ruin your clothes and it will cost you three or four times much to get it fixed i'm like if i like them i'm gonna keep what them these expensive it's just what it is so yeah 65 35 i think yeah
matt: Totally.
matt: Okay. That's a pretty solid ratio.
Jamaal: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah, respectable.
Jamaal: But most of that stuff is a lot of the the new stuff that was bought new. A lot of it is probably some of it's 10 years old. Some of it's three or four or five years old. And i would say a smaller percentage of is like brand, brand new.
matt: Right. You're not doing the fast fashion type of thing where you buy something, you wear it three times and then you throw it.
Jamaal: No, I have the oldest thing I think I may have, maybe about 10 years old. I i'll have a ah leather motorcycle jacket from Gap that I bought. There was like the grail when I bought it.
Jamaal: Cause I, leather the jackets, a lot of money. Like you're talking 10 years ago, you're talking, i think that jacket was 450.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Jamaal: I got it for like, maybe like 200 bucks. And I was just like, Oh my God, I got a leather jacket.
Conor Fowler: I gotta give you that moto jacket.
Jamaal: Um,
Conor Fowler: I mean, I worn it one time.
Jamaal: Yeah, yeah to toss it over here i love ah I love a good...
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: And mine's just so slim because it was I was ah somewhat smaller. than I can still fit it, but it's like I can't layer it. It's a t-shirt jacket. I can wear with a t-shirt.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: And if I wear it with butt, like a but ah like an oxford or something, is I just have to leave it open and just have to walk around like this.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, we gotta post the video for this one too.
Jamaal: So...
Conor Fowler: We gotta figure out what we're gonna do with that.
Jamaal: I meant to send a couple of pictures. I think I had myself going on an interview in a suit and a tie, like from like 2012 or 13. And I think had another picture of me doing something that I was working out this morning and I forgot.
Conor Fowler: Oh, we got to post them.
Jamaal: I made lunch before my wife. that she She left. She didn't even say anything.
Conor Fowler: Wow. You made her lunch though. That's very nice.
Jamaal: I'm the primary in our household ah So I cook every single breakfast, like probably 95%. My wife, she's she's just not a wanted person. I make the coffee, make breakfast.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Sounds familiar to me.
Jamaal: She cooks, but like if there's if there's food that needs to be prepared, and like on the weekends, I'm pretty much cooking something. I'm chefing something up. So I'll probably say I cook like 60% or 70% of the time. And any meals that like on the weekend that we're putting something together, I'm making this stuff.
Jamaal: I'm making lunches if we're home. So yeah, I enjoy it.
Conor Fowler: It's good work if you can get it.
matt: Yeah, I wish I fucking enjoyed it. Jesus.
Jamaal: You don't like cooking?
matt: No, I do not.
Conor Fowler: Dude, I've been down this fucking road so many times. Like the only way to enjoy cooking is to do it all the time.
matt: yeah and I don't want to do it all the time.
Conor Fowler: Right. And if you don't want to get into that, like, because you got at least get your knife skills up. You got to figure out how your range works and how your oven works. Like,
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jamaal: No, no, you're right. because i we cook We eat out on like a like on a Saturday or Sunday, we'll eat out. And maybe on a Friday sometimes if we don't have, but we cook, I would say 85, we're eating at home 85% the time probably that we're making.
Jamaal: they
Conor Fowler: That's pretty good. I mean, we probably eat out like half as much as we cook, but I'd like to be cooking more because it's fucking insane.
Jamaal: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, you want me to pay $80 for two hamburgers delivery?
matt: Right.
Jamaal: That's ah that's a absurd.
Conor Fowler: Get out of here.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And that's like, that's like not exaggerated in my typical fashion.
Jamaal: I don't deliver.
Conor Fowler: That is literally the price.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. I ordered, I treated myself to a burger because my birthday is two days from now.
Conor Fowler: Boom, boom, boom.
Jamaal: Whoa, wait, wait, you were a Scorpio, right?
matt: am i am a Scorpio. Yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah, I'm a Sagittarius. I'm on Thanksgiving for the first day.
matt: Oh, wait, what's your, what, what's your birthday?
Jamaal: 27th.
matt: twenty seven
Jamaal: This year, was on Thanksgiving. I was born on Thanksgiving.
Conor Fowler: Oh, fuck. It's my brother's birthday. You and Ian have the same birthday.
Jamaal: shit, yeah? ha
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Anyway, it was ah it was a fantastic burger from this new all-vegan spot that I guess just opened. And it was $37 with delivery fee or would tip.
matt: And I was just like...
Conor Fowler: And see, that's exactly fucking what I said, right?
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's $40 in one hamburger.
Jamaal: 30, about 40 bucks. It
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, which is ridiculous.
Jamaal: ah
matt: But, you know, it was a cold night. I wanted something good and warm. And I was like...
Conor Fowler: Oh, no, dude, I'm not fucking casting aspersions at all.
Jamaal: is.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamaal: just it it is and And the thing about it is
Conor Fowler: Like, you have to do it.
matt: We just...
Conor Fowler: You have to do it. There's no other way to do it.
matt: It's just, it's a thing that we've, that we've had to accept in our modern.
Conor Fowler: That we have, right, allowed to become normalized.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: you would still care, but like if the delivery person, you know, they would go home and they could also afford to DoorDash, you'd you know what? You're making enough money. Like it's going around, but you know, they are getting paid.
Conor Fowler: Mm-mm.
Jamaal: You know, the restaurants probably, it sucks.
matt: Yeah, I know. It sucks. I always... i'm a I'm a very good tipper most of the time, or all the time. Like, even if it's the worst shit, like, you still get a good tip.
Jamaal: I try to be, yeah, I try to be as much as possible.
matt: You know.
Jamaal: it it makes it It makes a difference. Even if it's an extra couple dollars, it makes a difference because
Conor Fowler: I, yeah, I mean, I will not get down to 15% if it's very shitty, but like you, I feel like you can't do less than that. Really?
matt: Yeah, especially especially not with delivery, because they get so fucked over.
Jamaal: I
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamaal: and did that for a while.
Conor Fowler: And I've done that shit, you know?
Jamaal: For minute.
Conor Fowler: So it's like.
matt: Right.
Jamaal: Yeah.
matt: Well, that kind of seems like a good spot to wind down. um You know, we've talked a lot about clothes and Jamal, I feel like you've told our listeners a lot about yourself just with, you know, with what you've said.
Jamaal: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: um Yeah, we're we're excited to have you on the team and you've been doing great work. So, and also...
Conor Fowler: Truly amazing work. I mean, do you, how do you even make a video? Who knows how to do that?
matt: um Yeah, I was going to say also work that neither Connor nor myself know how to fucking do.
Conor Fowler: That's crazy.
matt: so
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Jamaal: Yeah, it's, it's, um, I've been,
Conor Fowler: Jamal is a one man fucking army of like video and production work and all that stuff. So.
Jamaal: um but I've been, I've been enjoying it, man. And I, and I really, i don't know, like, i like, it sounds like someone, like you guys are paying me, but I listened to it, I was like, this is, this is just good shit to listen to. And our other people make it podcast, sure. But I'm like, this is just good good meat to listen to and the guests um of course the guests you guys and the guests make the show and it's always a different kind of angle to each one so it's never it's always about mostly clothes but it's never ever the same and you just never that kind of know and that's the i think one of the most part of joy the most like man i don't know what i'm gonna listen to like you could kind of just put it on random and just get something cool and different every single time
matt: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow. We got to use that as a fucking ad
matt: Yeah, that's what that's why we'd like to hear.
Conor Fowler: I mean, well, I told you somebody from high school who I was close with then, but I'm not so close with now, was like, dude, listen to your podcast because it's very relaxing.
Jamaal: Yeah, sure.
matt: Damn.
matt: Oh, that's good to know.
Jamaal: okay
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I was like, he said, you know, your voices are just pretty soothing and it's like calm and you guys talk about stuff. You're never like screaming at each other.
Jamaal: I just noticed that this it's there's not a lot of like hectic up and downs to nobody's voice. It's just like everybody's just chilling.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yes.
matt: that's That's what we do on this program. We chill and we talk about random shit.
Jamaal: Yeah, for sure.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's the chill zone.
matt: Anyway, Jamal, shout out your account so people can follow you and shout out anything else you'd like to as well.
Jamaal: Uh, it's just Jamal, J-A-M-A-A-L underscore T-U-H-R-I-K on Instagram. I think it's the same on, on TikTok. I do a lot of yapping on TikTok. There's a lot more more clothes and more yapping too. So don't go there unless you want to hear an opinion that you may or may not find offensive.
Jamaal: Um, if you were only, if you're a piece of shit, if you're not a piece of shit, you won't find offensive.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I was gonna say, you'd be hard-pressed to find your opinions offensive.
matt: Right, right, exactly.
Jamaal: but you
Jamaal: Oh, also, too, hearing it here first, the whole gang, I think about if I'm going to do a coat drive. And if anyone would like to donate cold weather clothes, long sleeves, shirts and coats, I will actually, if you live in the Baltimore, D.C. area, I'll actually drive to a location and pick up some clothes and take them to a place to be donated.
matt: hell yeah
Jamaal: If you feel so. And that goes, and I'll, as long as it's within that area, DC is Baltimore, and you have at least, the more clothes you have, the more inclined I'll be to come. And I think it's getting cold. And I think we have a lot of clothes and we waste a lot of money on clothes. And we also wear the same shit all the time. And we have a lot stuff that just sits. So if you have some, please go to the Apocalypse Does page, go to my page and talk to either one of us and we'll coordinate and we can come myself We'll pick up clothes or coordinate with any one of three of us. Matt is in Atlanta.
matt: yeah
Jamaal: So, of course, if you listen from there, you know, I'm sure something can be coordinated to donate to somewhere. We don't want to give to places that sell clothes.
matt: Totally.
Jamaal: That's the only criteria. We give the clothes not to people who sell them.
matt: A hundred percent. Yeah.
Jamaal: And, yeah, that's the only thing that I that i kind of wanted to plug because I think I've done it last year. And we there's a lot of clothes and people people could use them. and And it's not just for people that don't have homes.
Jamaal: It's people that have homes and kids and families that maybe want a nice jacket or coat. It's not just for someone sleeping outdoors. It's for someone that wants to buy something new that maybe you have that's cool and they could use and look and feel cool too.
Conor Fowler: Fuck yeah.
matt: Totally.
Jamaal: So i think that's cool.
Conor Fowler: Because so many of my, I mean, not to talk about my shit again, but like so many of my students didn't have coats at all, period. Like they had to wear the uniform, which was a polo and khakis.
Conor Fowler: And that's what they showed up to school in 30 degree weather.
matt: Yeah.
Jamaal: yeah it
matt: yeah Yep.
Conor Fowler: So it's a real thing. And I mean, as Jamal said, whether they are housed or not, The clothes are fucking expensive, so.
Jamaal: doesn't matter yeah for sure
matt: Exactly. But yeah, um everyone, thank you for listening. We are at ApocalypseDuds on Instagram, ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com. um I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next Wednesday.
