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Episode 21 - Confidence vs. IMPOSTER SYNDROME? (w/ Kristin Siegfried Ballenger)
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Have you ever felt like an Imposter at work or when creating? It is estimated that up to 85% of people experience imposter syndrome in their lives, despite training and high achievement. ARE YOU PART OF THAT 85%? In today's episode we confront this issue head on with the help of Kristin Siegfried Ballenger, who is an expert luthier (maker or violins and other stringed instruments) and has first hand experience dealing with imposter syndrome. We all relate our experiences with imposter syndrome, talk about what the research suggests about it, and perhaps most importantly, talk about how to deal with it productively to achieve a deeper sense of confidence.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:17
pjasper
Well, well, well, look who's back. It's your favorite band of misfit toys. This is, woodworking is bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, scientist by day, woodworker by night, and I'm joined by, who are arguably the two best co-hosts in all of podcast history?
00:00:36
Enrique
Whoo!
00:00:37
Mary
Not arguably.
00:00:37
pjasper
Eric Curtis, fine find furniture maker and content creator, and Mary Tsai, UX designer by day,
00:00:38
Krissy
Hmm.
00:00:42
Mary
Oh, you said my name right this time?
00:00:46
pjasper
You were, watching I was watching your face as I said it.
00:00:47
Enrique
Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again, you know?
00:00:51
pjasper
I was watching your face as I said it. UX designer by day, contemporary furniture maker by night. All right, so as you know, we typically start with a question, but before that, before the question today, I want to let you know that we have a special guest and a close friend of ours on the show today, Kristin Siegfried Ballinger, a violin maker, also known as a luthier, if you're sophisticated, ah who ah not only makes violins, but also restores and teaches. And Kristin has graciously agreed to contribute to this episode on
00:01:29
pjasper
Drum roll.
00:01:29
Krissy
imposter syndrome
00:01:32
pjasper
Imposter syndrome. ah Kristen is a graduate and teacher at the Chicago School of Violin Making. She's now in her 12th year of being a professional. Correct, Kristen? And she works at Ruining in Sun Violin in Brookline, where she does restoration and also makes instruments from scratch.
Collaborative Work and Personal Connections
00:01:51
pjasper
at her home in the Boston area. ah She's good friends with us. I happened to know ah Kristin just from Instagram originally, and then we had overlap of two of a random friend of ours, ah Thomas, and Eric. You've done projects with Kristin as well, right?
00:02:09
Enrique
Yeah, Kristen and I, for those of you who have been ah following my work for a while, Kristen is the person who commissioned me to make the Ponchet cabinet, which is still arguably, I think by many people, maybe the best piece I've ever made.
00:02:26
pjasper
That's my favorite piece of yours. so
00:02:28
Mary
Mine too!
00:02:29
Enrique
It's like, but well, well, well, Kristen, Kristen is the person who commissioned me to do that.
00:02:30
Krissy
um Definitely mine.
00:02:36
Enrique
And she is the person who made the Pancha inside that cabinet, which was a masterwork in and of itself. And it was. It was a delight to work with you at that point, which, by the way, I don't want to go too far down this road. But Kristen, like when you talk about phenomenal clients and great people to work with, Kristen was like literally whatever you want to make. And I sent her a bunch of ideas and she was like, they're all great. And then I did none of them and handed her this weird, like, ovular box. And she was like, it's great. It's phenomenal.
00:03:05
Krissy
Make a box, that's all I wanted, make it fit.
00:03:06
Enrique
make a box. Yeah. Well, you also in fairness, you asked me to make a travel case. And then I was like, I think I made a display. And you're like, that's good enough.
00:03:14
Krissy
Beautiful, that's what I need.
00:03:18
pjasper
well kristen we want to thank you
00:03:18
Krissy
Only got a few a few weird looks carrying that on the plane.
00:03:25
Mary
think I could be going insane, but I think I got my violin from Rooting and Sons when I was a kid because that sounds so familiar. It's like the ah and sons part.
00:03:36
Mary
And I know they're based in Boston. I don't know if there's another and blank and sons violin maker in Boston, but.
00:03:43
Krissy
I don't think there is.
00:03:43
pjasper
Well, Kristin, we want to thank you.
00:03:45
Mary
That is crazy because I know that it came from Boston and I was i was like a child, so I didn't remember any of it, but that is wild.
00:03:52
Enrique
Hold on.
00:03:52
Krissy
They've been around for a minute, so it wouldn't surprise me.
00:03:52
Enrique
Is this, is this your super fancy violin that you got from them?
00:03:54
Mary
Yeah.
00:03:57
Mary
Uh, yeah.
00:03:58
Enrique
Like the one you still have that you're like, this is the, the most precious thing that I own in the world.
00:03:58
Mary
Yeah. My, my full size. Mm-hmm.
00:04:03
Mary
Yeah.
00:04:04
Enrique
That's hardcore.
00:04:05
Mary
That is, that is wild.
00:04:07
Enrique
Okay. All right.
00:04:08
Mary
Yeah. That name rings a bell.
00:04:10
Krissy
I'm gonna have to go look it up now.
00:04:13
Mary
Yeah.
00:04:13
pjasper
Oh, they have records?
00:04:15
Krissy
There's always records.
00:04:16
Enrique
It's spelled to say, just so you know, to say.
00:04:17
pjasper
No.
00:04:17
Krissy
Go find some photos, some glamour shots of it.
00:04:18
pjasper
Yeah, it's pronounced S-I-E. OK.
00:04:21
Mary
Well, my violin teacher ordered it for me at the time.
00:04:21
Krissy
Okay.
00:04:24
Mary
So deepest quality. If you.
00:04:25
Krissy
Okay.
00:04:26
Mary
are equal to.
00:04:27
Enrique
Now we're just flexing violin shit on this one.
00:04:29
pjasper
Yes, already. Mary's flexing already. I knew she was going to flex, but I didn't know the...
00:04:33
Enrique
She's like that one time I played at the Kimmel Center, MBD.
00:04:33
Mary
Oh my god, people. One time? How dare you?
Defining Imposter Syndrome
00:04:38
Enrique
Oh, so where we're, we're not even five minutes into this episode and we're just music nerding right now.
00:04:40
pjasper
the multiple music schools I got in and didn't go to.
00:04:43
Mary
Actually, no, I only did Kimball Center once. The other, okay. The Academy of Music was different. It's fun.
00:04:51
Krissy
Listen, we haven't even started in on the viola jokes here.
00:04:51
Mary
Okay, okay. ah
00:04:54
Enrique
Oh man.
00:04:55
Mary
Oh, I'm so down. I'm so down.
00:04:57
pjasper
Oh God. Okay. I'm going to stop this. Okay. ah All right. So. Kristin, thank you so much for being on this episode and contributing to what we think is an important and especially personally vulnerable topic, I would call it, which is imposter syndrome.
00:05:04
Krissy
Yeah.
00:05:15
pjasper
ah The question is, do you have it?
00:05:19
Krissy
Yes.
00:05:19
pjasper
And if you...
00:05:21
Krissy
Yes, that's the answer.
00:05:21
pjasper
And and and if you do, but well what are some signs of it? What do you do with it? can So we're going to like analyze this question from soup to nuts.
00:05:35
pjasper
We'll define it but because Mary's our co-host. And then we'll go into like and analyzing it, looking for signs of it. And then we'll talk about some moments that we all have, we'll share you know where we've had imposter syndrome or felt it.
00:05:49
pjasper
And then we'll talk about a ways to solve it. So Kristen, I just want to say I have the utmost respect for you coming on as a guest to talk about this this topic because this requires self-confidence to talk about you know something like imposter syndrome, right?
00:06:05
Enrique
That's ironic.
00:06:06
pjasper
and and to and to be And to be real with us about it. So thank you very much.
00:06:11
Krissy
Of course, yeah.
00:06:11
Mary
Yeah, we wanted someone who was like an expert in their field too, like at the top of the game to like show that it still happens to people who are like absolute top of the ah their entire creative field.
00:06:24
Krissy
Well, if you're if you want an expert, you're going to have to find somebody else.
00:06:26
Enrique
Yeah, I knew you were going to make that joke, and I almost cut it off right from the jump, and I'm not going to let you do that all episode.
00:06:28
pjasper
So, Kristen and I, yeah.
00:06:32
Enrique
Kristen, before, if you don't know Kristen's work, pause this podcast right now.
00:06:33
Krissy
yeah
00:06:37
Enrique
Go Google Kristen, whatever Paul said. Ballinger Siegfried, Siegfried Ballinger, SiegfriedViolence on Instagram, say the Tigers plus Violin.
00:06:41
pjasper
Sigfried Ballinger, Eric.
00:06:44
Krissy
Siegfried, Roy, Ballinger. b Yeah, there we go.
00:06:48
Enrique
Go Google her, because she really is. ah phenomenal luthier she is an exceptional woodworker ah and I know you can't like listen to a violin over the internet you know or like feel how a violin shut up you know what I'm saying you can't feel how a violin plays over the internet and I don't know exactly how to play a violin well but ah they are beautiful things to behold if nothing else and I trust her expertise in that they play very nicely
00:07:07
Mary
ah
00:07:18
Krissy
I make violence, just what I do.
00:07:22
pjasper
So Eric, ah on that, on that point about calling her an expert, I said, I considered her an expert and she pushed back and I said, is this your imposter syndrome coming out already?
00:07:26
Mary
It is a symptom!
00:07:30
Enrique
Mm-hmm.
00:07:31
Krissy
Oh yes, 100%.
00:07:34
pjasper
Because if you're not an expert by now, well, I don't know what to tell you.
00:07:38
Krissy
Yeah. yeah
00:07:40
pjasper
All right. So why don't we start by defining
Personal Experiences with Imposter Syndrome
00:07:43
pjasper
imposter syndrome? Mary, are you ready for your definition?
00:07:46
Mary
I'm so ready
00:07:47
pjasper
The persistent inability to believe that someone's success is deserved or has been achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. Let me read it again. A persistent inability to believe that someone's success is deserved or has been achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. And do we want to take a guess at the prevalence? How many, what percent of the population has reported having imposter syndrome or having familiarity with it in moments?
00:08:18
Mary
in moments uh i would say quite high i would say like 60 70 percent
00:08:20
pjasper
Well, like, you know, I mean, and not, well, Mary, not everyone has it like 24 seven. You know what I mean? Like, so what's, what's the prevalence of, of yeah. What do you think the prevalence is?
00:08:34
pjasper
Mary Eric.
00:08:36
Enrique
If I had to take a guess, I would guess um whatever the population of narcissists is and remove that from the overall population. That's probably the amount of people who have experienced imposter syndrome at some point in their life.
00:08:44
pjasper
ah
00:08:48
pjasper
I love it, Eric. that very Great answer. Kristin, would you like to guess? Because Eric didn't give a it's eighty percent.
00:08:52
Krissy
I would say solid 80%. Okay.
00:08:56
pjasper
It's It's like 82%.
00:08:58
Mary
Wow.
00:08:58
pjasper
Yeah. yeah ah Somewhere between 50 and 80%, depending on like the the group.
00:09:00
Mary
huh
00:09:05
pjasper
ah So, you know, Eric said everyone except for narcissists probably has a story about it. So we ah we all four of us, and we haven't discussed this prior, all four of us are coming today with a moment where we felt imposter syndrome as as as a way to just kick off the vulnerability train. So who wants to go first?
00:09:29
pjasper
All right, I'll go for...
00:09:30
Enrique
Awkward silence. I'm refusing to go first.
00:09:33
pjasper
I'll go first. Sure, no problem.
00:09:34
Enrique
OK.
00:09:36
pjasper
So I had been, this is about three, four years ago. I had been making boxes for a number of years. I'd been working, working about, I don't know, 15, 16 years. And I was asked to teach a class at Pratt in Seattle.
00:09:50
pjasper
And so I i said, sure, i'll I'll teach a class and did they call you ah a, ma you know, as a master teacher and you give this lecture. And that that was all fine. But I did have a moment when I got to the class And it was a box making class where...
00:10:04
pjasper
There is no, there is no box to make. There's no like spat box. I know Eric, you do the same thing. It's basically come with an idea and we'll figure it out during the class and still have time to make the box. Right. And I don't know what anyone's bringing me. I have no idea what I, what ideas are coming. I have no idea what the state of the machinery is. I don't know if they're going to come with box ideas that I've never tried before. I can't come up with a way to make. So I remember.
00:10:35
pjasper
Like, having a moment in that class where I was like, just thinking in the back of my head, like, what if I don't know how to pull this off? Like, what if I get an idea so out that I can't come up with a way to do it? And it it felt really uncomfortable in that moment, because I because I don't know what's coming. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it. And it felt kind of ah it felt icky. Yeah, it was pretty uncomfortable.
00:11:03
Enrique
that's fair
00:11:05
pjasper
And, and I mean, there was some problems, but, um, we got through it all and the boxes all weren't all complete, but there were at least 70%, 80%, some were totally complete.
00:11:05
Mary
Hmm.
00:11:15
Mary
That's so, that's so tricky, because like, how can you predict, like, if you can know everything in the world, essentially?
00:11:23
pjasper
That's right.
00:11:24
Enrique
you can't
00:11:24
pjasper
Yeah, right.
00:11:25
pjasper
And that's, so that's, I felt, I felt not, not so much imposter, but like, what if I'm not experienced enough to pull this off for these people who paid so much money and have such, such high expectations of the class?
00:11:25
Enrique
you can't
00:11:33
Mary
Mm hmm.
00:11:39
pjasper
It was pretty uncomfortable for for a minute until we got into it and then the nerves slowly went away. But yeah, that was a moment where I felt a bit of it.
00:11:47
Enrique
I am curious again in the conversation later about whether experience tempers imposter syndrome, ah but we're not there yet.
00:11:53
pjasper
Okay. All right, who's next?
00:11:55
Enrique
And I'm refusing to go second. So somebody else go.
00:11:58
Mary
I think a second. don't I don't know why you're refusing so much, but all right.
00:12:03
Enrique
Because I always just talk and I'm like, I'm trying to give you the opportunity to talk more.
00:12:08
Mary
ah Okay. um ah So I am going to talk about a moment when I was working as an architect, I think my entire architecture career was defined by imposter syndrome, because I was straight out of school. So you're new in the field, you're in a very male dominated field, very traditional old school. um And I remember this moment because it was one of the moments where I was like, this isn't, I don't think architecture is for me.
00:12:38
Mary
So I have been working on these plans for a while. We were having meetings with a plumbing engineer or all of the engineers, but um this one plumbing engineer specifically was giving me a lot of problems. I was i had done so much research. I had done this plumbing scheme for him and plan for him that I knew worked and all the I'd done all the details for him. I'd done it on a previous project with a different engineer. So and I was positive it worked. And I remember him literally screaming at me and yelling at me in the room saying,
00:13:08
Mary
you don't know what you're talking about like you're I think he said you're an idiot and my principal was there and he defended me obviously because like like good principle, you should do that. ah But I, at that point, I was like, I i might be, I guess, like, even though I knew that this was like, a I'd done everything correctly, I knew that I'd like looked this up and done so much research. But like, at that point, but with all the emotion in the room, and he was like, and it was just so clear that he did not want to do it, because it was like a little bit of extra work. ah He just went off the rails. And apparently he had done this with a lot of the women in the firm, actually.
00:13:43
Mary
But at that point, I was just like, I guess, ah like, I guess I must be like just a terrible architect. And then I thought about it more and my principal was like, no, she's right. It's like, man, I wish I wish i hadn't like doubted that part of myself.
00:13:57
Mary
So, yeah.
00:13:57
pjasper
wow
00:13:59
Enrique
It's really hard in a moment like that to, to find your bearings and find your confidence.
00:14:04
Mary
Yeah.
00:14:04
Enrique
Cause there's always, always after the fact, you're like, I had the argument. Like I was right.
00:14:09
Mary
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:10
Enrique
And like, I could have just said X, but I didn't because it's so like, it throws you off when somebody gets in your fight in your face.
00:14:13
Mary
Yeah.
00:14:15
pjasper
It's a fight or flight moment.
00:14:17
Enrique
Yeah, exactly. It's a fight or flight moment.
00:14:18
Mary
Yeah.
00:14:19
Enrique
And you're just like, I don't know how to ah move forward.
00:14:19
Mary
Yeah. My, my reaction, my reactions have definitely changed over time. Like then I was just like frozen up and like now if I, if that happens, like I absolutely know how I would be able to take a step back and like collect myself and rethink but and then present my argument.
00:14:26
Enrique
Yeah.
00:14:33
Mary
But when you're young and you're like right off school, it's so hard.
00:14:33
pjasper
No.
00:14:36
Enrique
Yeah.
00:14:36
pjasper
Yep.
00:14:38
Enrique
I mean, that's a big part of the reason why I left the construction industry. Like the, you know, coming up on the, in the trades, like there's always, there was a million carpenters who were just like, you don't, you don't know how to do this.
00:14:49
Enrique
What the hell's wrong with you kid? You don't know how to do this. I thought she was a carpenter.
00:14:51
Mary
but
00:14:52
Enrique
I'm like, sir, I'm 17. I'm literally here to learn from you.
00:14:56
Mary
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:57
Enrique
Yeah. That's unfortunate, buddy. I'm sorry. Um,
00:15:01
Krissy
and in In violin world, it's, so that's how you do that.
00:15:05
Enrique
Oh, that's that's almost worse.
00:15:06
Krissy
And I'm like...
00:15:06
Mary
ah Weird, passive, aggressive.
00:15:08
Enrique
I would rather have somebody tell me I'm a fucking idiot so I can get right back in their face.
00:15:10
Krissy
Yes,
00:15:12
Enrique
That's that's almost worse.
00:15:13
pjasper
It's like in the south when they say bless your heart and they really mean fuck off, right?
00:15:15
Enrique
Right.
00:15:15
Krissy
ah yes so that's how you're doing that.
00:15:17
Enrique
Right.
00:15:20
pjasper
All right, Kristin, Eric, who's next?
00:15:21
Krissy
Yeah, well, I guess i guess i'll my most recent occurrence with this was applying for my job here in Boston. um you know This even goes back as far as five years ago. I remember seeing a posting for this job and I was like, oh man, that's such a great place to work. That's a killer job. I would love to have that job. you know I wasn't planning on moving at that point. it just you know I remember that thought passing through my head. and Fast forward.
00:15:50
Krissy
three years and all of a sudden I'm moving to Boston and I'm on a job interview at this shop and the owner of the shop who has 50 years of experience is like, oh, here's my head of the shop who's been here with me for 25 years, who has like 30 years of experience.
00:16:14
Krissy
Here's another colleague who is your age with 20 years of experience started doing this in high school. It's like, oh, man, I am so out of my depth with this is like, I am never ever, ever going to get this job. And
00:16:30
pjasper
You got the job.
00:16:31
Krissy
I did get the job, and even even starting out, it was a complete rethink of everything I was doing. It was, oh my goodness, I've been doing i've literally been doing this work for 13, 14 years. I've been teaching this. I should know how to do this.
00:16:52
Krissy
No, they do it completely differently. You need to completely rethink everything. So that was a lot of self-doubt going into that. and I feel like I have no idea what I was doing.
00:17:05
Krissy
but Well, we'll kind of get more into that later about, you know, what what did that turn turn into? But it was, it ended up being a a teachable moment for myself because it was like, okay, let's think about this here.
00:17:20
Krissy
Do you have 20 years of experience? Do you have 50 years of experience? let's Let's get yourself a little break here, ma'am, and think about your your situation here because, yeah.
00:17:27
pjasper
Yeah, that's good. I see your yeah, I see your coping skills already coming through, right?
00:17:37
Krissy
But you know it's, yes, more more on that later, but
00:17:37
pjasper
All right. But that's for later. The coping skills are for later.
Manifestations and Responses to Imposter Syndrome
00:17:41
Krissy
you know it's you know nearly 15 years in and it's it's still popping up.
00:17:41
pjasper
Yes.
00:17:46
Enrique
I feel like no matter how many years of experience you have, when you start work in a new environment, it's jarring to a point where you're like.
00:17:58
pjasper
Hmm.
00:18:00
Enrique
I know how I do it. I don't know how you do it. And for me, my coping mechanism in those situations is setting the bar very low. It's just being like, Hey, Hey, I don't know how you do it. I know how I do it. Let's have an honest conversation. Cause then I'm going to feel more comfortable and I can learn the way that you want me to do it. And if we don't do that, and I'm just out here pretending like I know how to do a thing that you might do every day. And I haven't done in seven years, then this is going to end up getting real tense real quick.
00:18:30
Enrique
So let's establish that line of communication. um
00:18:33
Mary
Yeah. Also being like clear about, I don't know and well ah enough information about this. Can you tell me just like that being an important step and I think a level of maturity as well.
00:18:39
Enrique
Yes, yes, yes. And that ah is gonna be my my example. But before I tell you my example, I just wanna say,
00:18:51
Enrique
Even after however many years it's been as a woodworker and designer, uh, there are still moments like a few weeks ago where I'm looking at this piece I need to start.
00:19:00
Krissy
Mm hmm.
00:19:02
Enrique
And I was like, I don't know if this is a good piece. I don't know if I'm fucking good at this. Like, I don't know. Like if I can pull it off and I don't know what it is, I don't know why it was daunting to me, but there, there.
00:19:17
Enrique
There are always those moments of like, I don't know. I don't know if I can do it and I don't know if I should do it.
00:19:23
pjasper
Yep.
00:19:24
Enrique
I don't know if I'm good enough to do it. And I think that just comes with the territory of living in the creative fields. Like it is, there is, it's not math. There is no right or wrong answer.
00:19:35
Enrique
It is just when it's that subjective, it's difficult sometimes to feel concrete and stable all the time.
00:19:44
pjasper
And funny enough, that's what Frank Gehry, the architect said in his masterclass episode, I remember, and he was 92 in that episode or something like that. And he still describes, I mean, I think about a successful career, right?
00:19:56
Enrique
yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:19:57
pjasper
And he still says, you know, every project, there's that self doubt, like, Now I did it last time, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to be able to do it next time. And he, and he always thought that that was a healthy tension in his life.
00:20:10
pjasper
Like it never lets you get to two too, too self-assured, too arrogant or cocky. It always keeps you thinking and always keeps you kind of curious. So I think that's probably a healthy balance.
00:20:19
Enrique
yeah I'm really curious to hear Mary's interpretation of Frank Gehry later on, but I will give you my, my example off the jump is, uh, back to the kind of being honest about what you don't know. When we got to filming the Netflix show, it was a moment of now at this point in time, this was 2020, the beginning of 2020, when we started filming, we're only there for a couple of weeks.
00:20:47
Enrique
Um, before we got shut down, but they cast me, I'm a school teacher. I'm a shot teacher in New Jersey. Right. I've made furniture, but I was not doing it full time at that moment. Um, I had zero camera experience whatsoever, but for whatever reason, they decided to cast me as the carpenter in this show. And we get there in the first day of filming is like an eight, 10 hour day. It's all in the warehouse.
00:21:14
Enrique
And, uh, the first maybe like 15 to 20 minutes is a dare kind of addressing a group of people. This is scenes that we didn't end up using in the, in the final cut, but it dares dressing a group of people. And then they were like, and and after that, Eric, like it's, it's your day. Like there's a lot of things going on in here and it's all based around what you're doing. And I was like, okay. Um, you remember the part where I told you, I don't know what I'm doing, right? Like I have zero experience here. All I know how to just like make.
00:21:43
Enrique
less offensive dick jokes. That's all I got. That's my I'm a one trick pony. So Adair goes and he speaks and he and he does this thing and Adair has a lot of camera experience. And so just because I respect Adair's experience in in the way that he presents himself on camera,
00:22:00
Enrique
I get up there and just instinctively start mimicking Adair. Now Adair is a gay black man. So he's got like a ah very distinct cadence and we went for about 30 seconds.
00:22:06
pjasper
Hahahahaha!
00:22:09
Mary
Oh God, were you offensive?
00:22:11
Enrique
We went for about 30 seconds and Dave, ah the executive producer calls cut and he walks, that was amazing. he Dave's the sweetest guy. He helped me figure out how to be on camera. He was a wonderful producer, but he walks up to me in that moment.
00:22:23
Enrique
He was like, um what the fuck was that? What are you, what are you doing? I was like, I, I don't know. What am I doing? He was like, you're being a dare. We didn't hire you to be a dare, figure out how to be yourself. Like just be a teacher. And it was, and it was that like allowance of, Hey, we've had this conversation. I know you don't know how to do this, but just be the person we hired you to be that allowed me to like calm down and settle into it.
00:22:52
Enrique
And I'm very glad that we didn't end up using that footage in the the actual cut of the show, because it would have been very uncomfortable.
00:23:00
Mary
Get you cancelled in the first 30 seconds.
00:23:00
pjasper
Wow.
00:23:02
Enrique
Oh, immediately.
00:23:06
pjasper
Oh, that's good. I like that. I like all of them. um So maybe we could start ah the analysis portion of like breaking down imposter syndrome by some research and some questions. So I'll ask you a question first. Do you think it occurs equally in men and women?
00:23:24
Enrique
No.
00:23:24
Krissy
No.
00:23:24
Mary
No.
00:23:26
pjasper
ah who Who do you think it occurs more in?
00:23:27
Krissy
Bye, man.
00:23:28
Enrique
Women.
00:23:29
Mary
Women.
00:23:30
pjasper
Yes, so the literature has been mixed on this for some time. There's some controversial reports, but a recent report this year did an analysis of over 40,000 people and they came away with the conclusion that women experience imposter syndrome more than men.
00:23:46
pjasper
So that seems to be the correct answer. And especially in minorities or women in male dominated fields.
00:23:49
Enrique
So I,
00:23:55
Enrique
Hmm. I, I'm not questioning that, uh, statistic or that information, but I do wonder if it's influenced by men not wanting to acknowledge to other people or even themselves that they're experiencing imposter syndrome.
00:24:11
pjasper
Uh, they talk, they talk about that, that, that women express it themselves better and men internalize the stress of imposter syndrome more.
00:24:13
Enrique
Yeah.
00:24:16
Enrique
Hmm.
00:24:18
pjasper
They did talk about that.
00:24:19
Enrique
Okay.
00:24:20
pjasper
So, I mean, that's definitely at play arc.
00:24:21
Krissy
Mm hmm.
00:24:21
pjasper
It's early now, uh, an interesting, um, someone brought up a cycle associated with it, like an imposter syndrome cycle. So I read this review by hucker at all from last year.
00:24:33
pjasper
The cycle is the following you're faced with it in step one, you're faced with a task. Step two, you can go one of two ways.
00:24:44
pjasper
There's two types of imposters. There's the over preparation imposter who's who's like the over preparation imposter Mary who is
00:24:50
Enrique
we don't know anybody like that
00:24:57
Mary
hey
00:24:58
pjasper
They say, you know, they they just do so much preparation. And in fact, it's that preparation that makes them feel like an imposter. They say, I feel like a fraud, because I had to prepare so much.
00:25:11
pjasper
And that if someone was really good at this, they wouldn't have to prepare like this, that by is at like, by default makes me an imposter, right?
00:25:13
Enrique
We don't know anybody like that.
00:25:19
Mary
Stop staring at me!
00:25:19
pjasper
Now,
00:25:20
Enrique
I know this is an audio podcast, so I was trying to call you out without calling you out, buddy, all right?
00:25:26
pjasper
So there's the over preparation. Then there's the other way, the procrastinator imposter where it's like, I feel like a fraud because I couldn't bring myself to do it for all this time. Maybe the the the barrier of over preparation was too much. So you put it off and then you just do the bare minimum as fast as you can at the end. And you say, I feel like a fraud because I didn't really prepare enough and I'm going to be outed. Someone's going to find out that I crammed and I'm just like trying to pick up as many pieces as I can at the end. And then what happens after that, whether you were the over preparer or the procrastinator, what follows that in the cycle is the fourth stage, which is you internalize any failures and you explain away the successes.
00:26:17
pjasper
So anything that doesn't go right, you're like, oh yeah, bring it on. And it's almost like a positive feedback loop of accepting the failure. And then anything that went right, you're like, well, it didn't go right because of me.
00:26:28
pjasper
It went right because I just got lucky. That person happened to be in the audience or, you know, it just, it just worked out that time because so-and-so happened to be there.
00:26:31
Enrique
Hmm.
00:26:36
pjasper
So you explain away your success and round and round we go into the imposter syndrome cycle.
00:26:46
Enrique
Do either of you identify with that?
00:26:49
Mary
yeah ah You already know the answer.
00:26:49
Krissy
Can you be both?
00:26:52
pjasper
Can you do both?
Imposter Syndrome Among High Achievers
00:26:53
pjasper
I think so, Kristin. I think sometimes you do one and sometimes you can do the other depending on how much time you have.
00:26:59
Enrique
To choose your own adventure.
00:27:00
pjasper
Yeah. And, you know, Kristin actually said something interesting.
00:27:02
Mary
Yeah.
00:27:04
pjasper
She said, you know, we were talking about this show beforehand and a couple of nights ago and she, one of the things she said is I think imposter syndrome co-presents with perfectionism.
00:27:16
pjasper
And I made a note of that. I made a note of that. Cause I think she was right. And funny enough, the review I was reading said imposter syndrome co-presents with five other things. The first one perfectionism, Kristen, you were right.
00:27:16
Enrique
Mmm.
00:27:33
pjasper
the need to be the best, practically unattainable self-imposed standards. right It also presents with what they call super heroism, a tendency to over-prepare tasks and to appear. You're over-preparing for a task that you could already do. You don't need that kind of preparation. You got this.
00:27:55
pjasper
So it's like that super heroism, like you're overdoing something you you know how to do. The third thing it co presents with is fear of failure. imposter syndrome, ah those people experience anxiety, the feel of being shamed or humiliated if you fail. And if you do fail, guess what? You're going to be outed. Everyone's gonna know you're a fraud.
00:28:19
pjasper
Right. So fear of failure comes with it. Also denial of competence and capabilities. Right. So that's what I was, like you know, if something goes well, you explain it away. Uh, it's closely tied to perfectionism. Uh, they discount their intelligence, they discount their experience, their skills and their natural talents. And, um, there's a propensity to internalize the failure, but explain away the success. And the last thing it co-presents with is a fear of success.
00:28:49
pjasper
Meaning like it's hard to hear positive things. And if you do get positive feedback, it just, it's kind of in one ear out the other. It doesn't really lodge in there and give you a a better sense of self. And, um, whereas failures do register. And that's all you could hear 10 good, you could hear 10 pieces of feedback. Nine of them are good and one of them's bad. And all you're going to hear is the bad one.
00:29:15
pjasper
So there's a lot of co-presenting with imposter syndrome. Like I said, perfectionist, perfectionism, super heroism, fear of failure, denial of your own competence and fear of success. Those are the five things they said it co-presents with.
00:29:30
Enrique
Fear of success is a really interesting one to me. Cause I, I, I hear what you're saying about not being able to take in positive feedback, but I also wonder if this is just me like thinking about myself in moments where I have that, that kind of. What I would call imposter syndrome, but I don't know if it hits the definition, but in those moments of thinking, like if this person thinks highly of me in this regard, can I reproduce it?
00:29:58
Enrique
Like if I'm, if I'm a fraud, right?
00:29:59
pjasper
That's yes.
00:30:01
Enrique
Like, I don't know.
00:30:01
pjasper
Right.
00:30:02
Enrique
And it succeeds in, and then throwing away your own successes, right? You're like, I don't know how I did it.
00:30:05
pjasper
Yep.
00:30:06
Enrique
It just happened. Whatever the stars aligned in to happen. So if this person is like, now I expect X of you, you're like, I don't know how to get back to X.
00:30:14
pjasper
So Eric, it's so funny you said that because the last sentence I didn't read about fear of success, I was trying to save time. The last sentence of that was success as succeeding may actually lead to a higher expectation or increased pre existing workload the next time.
00:30:30
Enrique
Well, the, the reason I thought of that was, you know, when I was a younger man and a terrible student, there was, I was a terrible student for a number of reasons. One of which is, you know, I think I have some form of ADHD and in.
00:30:44
Enrique
Maybe dyslexia. I don't know. But in either case, I'm reading and keeping up with the reading in school was very difficult for me. I'm a slow reader. And so if I came into class with the excuse of, ah, I just didn't do the reading.
00:30:58
Enrique
Then the, I immediately set the bar lower. So it was easier to clear. Like I had an excuse for not being as good as I was expected to be, or I should have been.
00:31:04
pjasper
Yeah.
00:31:08
pjasper
Yeah. So Eric, you said something just now, which is like, I don't know if this is the right definition of imposter syndrome, which brings up our next question. How does one realize if they're experiencing posture syndrome?
00:31:24
pjasper
How do you know?
00:31:25
Enrique
Can you go back to...
00:31:25
pjasper
What's it feel like?
00:31:25
Krissy
I would say just discomfort, like you this this genuine genuine feeling of, I am in a situation where I should feel comfortable or and it's you know you can you feel out of your element, but is it it it is a a genuine feeling of discomfort and i I don't know what to do with this.
00:31:49
pjasper
Is it, is it panic? or Is your heart racing?
00:31:52
Krissy
It is a little bit of panic. i think I think it can be different depending on the situation, but yeah, that's what it is, at least for me.
00:32:01
Mary
I think, I think there's also a time element too, for me where it's, I'm experiencing imposter syndrome and then time passes and I realized looking back on it, that, that was like, I don't know, foolish, but like different state of mind that I was in that I like, you know, once everything has passed, you're like, Oh, I shouldn't have, you know, freaked out about that. I shouldn't have been worried about that.
00:32:25
Mary
that may have been, that that might be a more obvious sign to me of like, oh, maybe I was experiencing imposter syndrome then.
00:32:33
pjasper
Hmm.
00:32:34
Enrique
Paul, can you read your original definition of, uh, imposter syndrome? Cause there was something in there that struck me and I can't recall what it is at the moment.
00:32:40
pjasper
Yeah. Sure. The persistent inability to believe that someone's success is deserved or has been achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills.
00:32:50
Enrique
Hmm. So, okay. So that's what it was. I, I, that definition is, is acknowledging that you have experience and skill built over time, presumably. And I think a lot of us.
00:33:03
Enrique
label experience, for example, in my own, um, story about feeling imposter syndrome. I'm unsure if that's um imposter syndrome because it was about inexperience. Like I didn't have the experience of being on television. So of course I was uncomfortable trying to figure out how to be on television. Right. Versus, versus like a few weeks ago where I've been making furniture as a professional for 12, 13 years.
00:33:33
Enrique
And I was like, I don't know if I'm any good. Like, I don't know if I can make a box interesting and.
00:33:38
pjasper
That sounds more like imposter syndrome to me, the second one.
00:33:38
Enrique
and Right, right, right, right, right. And that that that ebbs and flows that comes in waves. um But I guess I wanted to point out that difference because there are times where like we try something new and we feel like imposters because we haven't done it or we don't have a lot of experience versus hey, I've been.
00:34:01
Enrique
the president of the violence society. And I still feel like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
00:34:09
pjasper
Well, Eric, it's typically manifested in the most highly achieving individuals, I saw a graph that stratified like the amount of achievement that like a group of students had, and the higher their achievement went, and the better they were at everything, the more imposter syndrome they had.
00:34:26
Enrique
Hmm.
00:34:30
Mary
That, I mean, that doesn't surprise me too much because when you are so hot, so such a high achiever, you surround yourself and you look up to people that also set a higher bar for you because you, you know, you're ambitious, you have a goal for yourself. So I could see that happening. I mean, I know that happens to me. I have what set seven years of design school under my belt and I'm in a very senior position and at my company like all of that I still have i have so many years of experience and still I experience imposter syndrome when I encounter like oh is this good like I don't I don't know like I think I might be terrible at this and then you have to take a step back and be like no I have I like in my brain I can kind of like check off the facts of like I know that this is good I know that this is bad I know like what you know I can think of it a little bit more technically now
00:35:28
Mary
um So yeah, I think I relate to that for sure.
00:35:32
pjasper
Well, it sounds like you know how to parse it. And so I'm curious, it, you know, before, before you you've figured out how to solve it, like what bad, like when you've had imposter syndrome and if it gets to be kind of a runaway train, what sort of bad things emanate from there? Like, is there negative self talk? Kristen, do you have Mary? Yeah, go ahead.
00:35:51
Krissy
ah Yeah, I mean, there's there's a number of reactions. Negative cell talk is definitely one of them. I'm a fraud. They're gonna find out that I have no idea what I'm doing. um you know There's physiological reactions as well. you know You can be nervous, you can be shaking.
00:36:12
Krissy
um you know every You can pick your favorite defense mechanism, humor, goofing off, all sorts of things.
00:36:19
pjasper
EH
00:36:21
Krissy
um Eric, you mentioned fight or flight earlier, you can you can get really defensive. you know you you don't know You feel like you don't know what you're talking about, and then so you you stick to what you know, and you say, okay, well, this is what I know.
00:36:28
Mary
Yeah.
00:36:28
Enrique
sure
00:36:35
Mary
yeah
00:36:37
Krissy
It must be right.
Cultural and Environmental Influences on Imposter Syndrome
00:36:39
Krissy
And then you kind of back yourself into a corner because it's what you know and you don't have the clarity to step back and say, okay, wait a second.
00:36:49
Krissy
There may be other ways to do this. and So rather than reframing, you are, you are closing yourself in.
00:37:00
pjasper
So let's, yeah, let's go through, let's go through real quick.
00:37:00
Krissy
So it is, you know, there's various responses and I think everyone's is a little bit different.
00:37:08
pjasper
What have your responses been? How did you, and so Kristen, why don't you go first? When you had imposter syndrome, whether it was interviewing for that job or whatever, what came out of you? What happened in the moment?
00:37:19
Krissy
It was, why why am I even here? Like, yes, I i know these people, but seriously, what why am I here?
00:37:28
pjasper
Wow.
00:37:28
Krissy
Like, they they kind of know me, so I guess that's why they let me in the door, but but genuinely, like, confusion is why am I here? Yes, they'll look let me look at some nice violins because they're nice people, but do I really deserve this job?
00:37:39
pjasper
Okay.
00:37:41
Krissy
So, I mean, that was those were the thoughts running through my head.
00:37:41
pjasper
So is it so, so for you, it wasn't like fight or flight. It wasn't, I'm going to argue and and hold my point. It was more like, uh, negative self talk going on in the back of your head at the same time.
00:37:51
Krissy
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:37:54
pjasper
Okay. Mary.
00:37:56
Mary
Uh, so I think for me, this is more of like a later, more experienced, uh, version of myself where I'm able to kind of not let that feeling of imposter syndrome flood myself or flood me. Like, I think there's a lot of value in saying, I don't know. And I've gotten really comfortable with that when I started this new job in the video editing world, I didn't know that much about video editing, and there's so much jargon, there's so much complexity in this world, like way more than i then I can even describe or imagine.
00:38:33
Mary
I was like, there's no way that I can know any of this stuff. So like, one, surround yourself with people that you feel comfortable asking questions, and two, I was just okay being like, I'm sorry, I don't know, could you explain this to me?
00:38:46
Mary
I know what I'm good at, so let's blend those two like pieces of information together.
00:38:46
pjasper
Now,
00:38:52
pjasper
Well, so that's the more experienced you. how how did the How did the younger you who got flooded with panic respond to it?
00:38:54
Mary
Yeah. Oh,
00:39:00
Mary
I stutter. I stutter when I get nervous.
00:39:02
pjasper
Really?
00:39:03
Enrique
Really?
00:39:03
Mary
I still do. Yeah, I still do. When I get nervous, I ah basically I'm like Michael Scott, I start a sentence and I don't know where it's going.
00:39:12
Krissy
but
00:39:12
pjasper
ah
00:39:13
Mary
And then on i I'm just like.
00:39:14
Enrique
That is that's how I live my life, buddy.
00:39:18
Mary
Yeah, so it's I mean it's more of this idea of like okay i got I have to say something like I have to prove that I like know something at least so like just putting any kind of words or information out in the world I i used to think was and I still do sometimes when I get really nervous a That was my first instinct
00:39:33
Enrique
That's every time I listen to this podcast back to see if we did a good job, that is my takeaway from myself is I'm just saying words for the fucking sake of saying words. And I need to figure out how to how to, you know, make it shorter.
00:39:49
Mary
We all do though.
00:39:49
pjasper
but eric Eric, while you're saying words, why don't you tell us how you dealt with your imposter syndrome?
00:39:54
Enrique
Oh, um
00:39:55
pjasper
Or like what happened? Not how you dealt with it. How did it manifest in you?
00:39:59
Enrique
As, as a younger person, um, it was like full on flight. Like it was just, um, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why I'm here.
00:40:10
Enrique
I'm going to get out. I'm going to make some jokes. Like i'll I'll make jokes and ease the tension, right?
00:40:14
pjasper
Humor.
00:40:14
Mary
definitely see that.
00:40:14
Krissy
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:40:15
Enrique
Humor. And, uh, and as soon as like I put you at ease and you're not looking, I'm out the back.
00:40:16
pjasper
Humor.
00:40:21
Enrique
I'm Irish. Goodbyeing. Like I'm gone.
00:40:23
Mary
Hahaha!
00:40:23
pjasper
Wow.
00:40:24
Enrique
Um, and. Also coming back to that, like using the excuse of like, Oh, well, you know, I didn't do the reading. Like, of course, you know, I don't know what the answer is. Um, as an adult, cause I mean, look, this is the whole conversation we're having is that it still happens. And, uh, when it does happen, anytime I'm in a situation where I'm nervous and I can feel, um, my heart rate rising. Um, and here's a, here's a very.
00:40:51
Enrique
a distinct physiological thing that happens is, you know, your heart rate rises and so you're, you start to breathe more quickly, but I forget to breathe more quickly because I'm trying to look cool on the outside. So what I end up doing is yawning a lot.
00:41:03
Mary
What?
00:41:05
Enrique
I know it's very like if I'm backstage before an event, I yawn a lot because it's like my body needs more oxygen and I'm just trying to pretend like I don't need to breathe faster.
00:41:12
Mary
That's crazy.
00:41:15
pjasper
That's amazing. so you So you want to get the fuck out of there. You're making jokes and cracking jokes and yawning a lot.
00:41:20
Enrique
and yawning simultaneously. ah But but the way that I have found ah to cope with it now in a more healthy way, I think, is I remind myself that it doesn't matter.
00:41:22
pjasper
That's amazing.
00:41:34
Enrique
Like whatever it is I'm doing in that moment, even if I fail spectacularly, it's not going to derail my life. Like it's not going to end my career.
00:41:45
Enrique
it is going to be a thing that I'm embarrassed. And there's plenty of things, we could ah spend a whole hour of this podcast talking about things that I've done in the public eye that I'm still mortified about.
00:41:49
Mary
Hahahaha!
00:41:56
Enrique
And Paul and Mary know several of those things.
00:41:56
pjasper
Yeah.
00:41:59
Enrique
um But in those, the blackmail is real.
00:42:01
pjasper
Yeah, Mary, we do.
00:42:05
Enrique
um In those moments, I remind myself that it it doesn't matter. I have overcome difficult things in my life. And ultimately, like I have friends, I have family who loves me.
00:42:21
Enrique
Uh, I am, I am in an okay position in life, thankfully.
00:42:24
pjasper
Yeah.
00:42:24
Enrique
And whatever, whatever I can actually fuck up that badly, I will be able to overcome. But it is a thing. Like I literally just tell myself, none of this matters.
00:42:35
Enrique
That's what I say to myself over and over.
00:42:36
pjasper
That's good. I like that. we Well, that's our next topic is coping strategies. ah for For me, in the moment, I'm an internalizer.
00:42:47
pjasper
I've learned about myself. I internalize my stress.
00:42:49
Mary
yeah
00:42:50
pjasper
I don't even know I have it as much sometimes, but suddenly I have a stomach ache. And it's a very particular stomach ache.
00:42:55
Enrique
Mmm.
00:42:57
pjasper
It has a unique feel to it. It's like in a certain region across the top, radiating left to right. And I started having some heart palpitations that followed the next day, like a lot of heart palpitations.
00:43:10
pjasper
And at first I thought, I'm like, and I have a heart attack. Cause I don't feel stressed in my head. I don't. If you say, Hey, how are you feeling? I'm like, Oh, great day. Everything's cool. But my body's betraying me. It's telling me the true story.
00:43:21
pjasper
I like heart palpitations, stomach ache. I'm burping all the time. So Eric's cracking jokes and yawning and I'm burping.
00:43:25
Enrique
Mmm.
00:43:28
pjasper
My heart's beating out of my chest.
00:43:30
Enrique
We are a ah strange trio.
00:43:33
pjasper
Yeah. So, uh, so for me that that's how it manifests physically. So Eric, you started, I think where we want to go and next, which is, and I want to ask Kristen first. So what's the solution? Like, what are some solutions to dealing with this?
00:43:51
Krissy
is this and Is this one we're starting the therapy session?
00:43:54
pjasper
I think so.
00:43:55
Enrique
Oh, buddy, we've been in it for 44 minutes.
00:43:55
pjasper
I think so.
00:43:55
Krissy
well what We're already in here.
00:43:58
Enrique
That was just the warm up.
00:43:58
pjasper
I, Well, I'll start by saying, I guess you have to figure out ah just as you're saying, as you're on the couch in the therapist's office, they say, tell me about your family. I think we have to start with like, how did we get here? Like, what causes imposter syndrome? And from a research point of view,
00:44:18
pjasper
Oh boy, everyone buckle up.
Positives and Management of Imposter Syndrome
00:44:21
pjasper
Many things, and I'm quoting, many things can lead to imposter syndrome. So it's difficult to pinpoint exact causes. However, research on it has linked family environment to the phenomenon, specifically families that have highly emphasized achievement.
00:44:32
Enrique
Hmm.
00:44:38
pjasper
Sometimes people who grow up in this kind of environment internalize the message that their value as a person is based solely on their achievements. and consequently develop a sense of contingent self-worth.
00:44:53
Enrique
Kristin, what was your GPA?
00:44:55
Krissy
ah
00:44:59
Krissy
Let me tell you about both of my doctor parents but not and how I went to trade school.
00:45:07
Enrique
Well, I am curious, though, because I have often i've I've wondered in I guess, Paul, what you just said kind of backs that that up a little bit like the the exceptional students, the straight a students have coming back to our super well organized conversation about competition a couple of weeks ago.
00:45:29
Enrique
Uh, like there is a metric there that says you are achieving and you are exceptional, right? You can get that a and in my experience, and I was not one of these people, but the, the people who get straight A's, if they get a B it just, it's a fucking F like it might as well just be an F there's no reason to get a B.
00:45:50
pjasper
There's
00:45:50
Enrique
But as, as, as soon as you get out into adulthood and the workforce, and there is no real metric, there's no grade there. There was just a, ah, what you did kind of worked, but it kind of didn't.
00:46:02
Enrique
And here's what you can improve. Then that anxiety starts to raise because how do you know that you're succeeding? and You don't, you're just floating out into the ether of like, well, I guess the violence sold, but like, was he really that happy with it?
00:46:16
Enrique
Does it play that well? Does it play as well as another one? Was it, did it look as good as a different one? it Did it, it didn't win the the number one award at the show.
00:46:22
pjasper
Hmm.
00:46:23
Krissy
It didn't win a gold.
00:46:24
Enrique
So how do I, It show, how do I know if it's any good? How do we know if I'm any good?
00:46:30
Krissy
Listen, you're you're talking about my my my trip two years ago, hey. but
00:46:36
pjasper
Well, I would ask Mary and Chrissy, for those who can't see the video, they were both making faces during talking about growing up in environments where achievement was, was, uh, was well, very intense.
00:46:42
Enrique
Uh, and notice, notice they didn't answer the question about the GPA, but that's fine.
00:46:50
pjasper
Is that true?
00:46:55
pjasper
Marry it, Kristen.
00:46:55
Mary
Wait, what was the question?
00:46:57
Enrique
What was your GPA?
00:46:59
Mary
Uh, what do you think it was?
00:47:01
Enrique
I know it was a four. Oh, that's why I asked to prove my point.
00:47:05
Mary
Uh, yeah.
00:47:07
pjasper
ah
00:47:07
Mary
Yeah, I grew- okay, fine. Fine. I grew up in an Asian household where I had a brother who was six years older than me to constantly be compared to.
00:47:17
Enrique
Wait, you're Asian.
00:47:21
Mary
Yes, I relate a lot to it. I am 100% positive it relates to all of my imposter syndrome. ah And it was like ground into me that grades were important, that statistical achievements were important. um Actually, funnily enough, I was talking to my parents about this recently, and they're like, oh, yeah, that stuff doesn't matter anymore. It's like, you say that now after all of this stuff?
00:47:48
Mary
Oh my god, oh my god, like of course they like showed up in their older age and they realized like, I don't work with anyone who went to an Ivy League school like this is, and we can all achieve the same sort of stuff.
00:47:48
Krissy
oh
00:47:56
Enrique
Mmhmm.
00:47:56
Krissy
Yeah.
00:47:58
Mary
And it's just so frustrating to hear now but it's fine. So yes, I can relate to this a lot. I think that it is absolutely the fuel for my imposter syndrome.
00:48:10
Mary
It is also probably why I feel a little bit better and I'm able to tackle my imposter syndrome now as I've gotten farther away from all of that, which is excellent.
00:48:21
pjasper
All right, so let's talk about how we candle it. So Kristen, why don't you go first? What are some strategies you have to handle imposter syndrome or to make it better in the moment or even long term?
00:48:32
Krissy
ah I think first off is just realizing that it's happening to you. you know we were We talked about the different responses that happen, but having that awareness of saying, okay, this is what's actually happening. Mary, you've said, okay, you go 20, 30 minutes later, a couple days later, you're like, okay, let's Let's talk about this. what This is what was actually going on in that moment, but having the self-awareness to say, these this is what was going on in my head, this is what was going on in the situation, like identifying that feeling of imposter syndrome and and then going from there and saying, okay, let's then analyze the situation.
00:49:22
Krissy
what am i What are my actual skills? you know for the I'm thinking, okay, setting up a violin, it and coming to this new job, it was a complete rework of everything that I had been doing, like brand new sets of numbers and parameters that that is done differently here in Boston, that was done in Chicago that I had been learning and been doing for 10 years at that point.
00:49:26
pjasper
in that moment, but having the self-awareness to say, this is what
00:49:48
Krissy
And it's like, okay, You learned it differently. This is just different. This is not, you don't know what you're doing. This is a new way of doing things. It's not, you don't know what you're doing.
00:50:02
Krissy
so But that is a reframe. So that's kind of my my third step is you know realize it's happening, analyze what's going on, and then reframe. OK, what can we do with this? Can we just get mad and say, OK, well, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to quit now. No, I'm going to say, how can I use this to my benefit? How can I use this to everyone's benefit?
00:50:28
Krissy
you know I think all three of you have mentioned honesty, just being honest with your coworkers, whoever you're around and saying, like I don't know. There's a lot of power in that and being able to take that and use it for for good.
00:50:38
pjasper
There's a lot of power in that.
00:50:46
Krissy
So reframing that in your head and being able to use you know this ah this feeling of discomfort and you know and turning it around and using it for good.
00:50:57
Krissy
So to benefit you.
00:51:00
pjasper
you, Eric?
00:51:02
Enrique
How do I cope with it?
00:51:03
pjasper
Yeah, how did you cope with it? What have you found?
00:51:05
Mary
hard drugs.
00:51:06
pjasper
What strategies?
00:51:07
Enrique
Did you say hard drugs?
00:51:07
pjasper
What strategies have helped?
00:51:09
Enrique
Is that what you just said?
00:51:09
Mary
Yeah, that's a lot of drugs on Eric's part.
00:51:14
Enrique
No, I mean, again, i I do try to repeat to myself that it doesn't matter. It's not going to destabilize my life. um The honesty component of it is like I have to be brutally honest because if I feel like I am pretending to be something that I'm not, then it's very uncomfortable and it compounds the imposter syndrome.
00:51:37
Enrique
Um, so i'll like just a brief example, a year and a half ago when I decided to focus on YouTube, um, I wanted some supplemental income to like make sure that, you know, I could pay my mortgage.
00:51:51
Enrique
So I got a part-time job at a cabinet shop. I haven't worked in a cabinet shop since 2017 at that point.
00:51:55
Mary
yeah.
00:51:55
pjasper
and remember that
00:51:57
Enrique
Right. So that had been what, seven years. It'd been a long time since I had put together in fabricated. Um, and, uh, like i maybe the first or second week I had to install drawer slots.
00:52:11
Enrique
I completely forgotten how to install drawer slots. And so instead of like walking up to the, the the shop manager, the floor manager and just be like, Hey bro, can you give me like, I haven't done this in seven years.
00:52:19
pjasper
I remember that.
00:52:24
Enrique
Can you give me a 30 second reminder? I slunked over into the corner, picked up my phone and watched a YouTube video on how to install drawer slides.
00:52:30
Mary
ah
00:52:34
Enrique
And it was one of those moments where I was like, I knew in the moment, I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is so juvenile. And then eventually he came over and he was like, what are you doing?
00:52:44
Enrique
I was like, I don't remember how to do drawer slides. Can you just give me, just give me a 30 second bro.
00:52:48
pjasper
Eric!
00:52:51
pjasper
That's when you say nothing. I was just checking my email.
00:52:53
pjasper
ah
00:52:53
Enrique
Yeah, well, that's it.
00:52:54
Enrique
yeah You know, at that point, I was just like, ah, you caught me, man.
00:52:56
Mary
Oh my god.
00:52:57
pjasper
Yeah.
00:52:58
Enrique
You know, um but I think it is like had that interaction not happened, it would have been a still ah in unease through the rest of that project of like, oh, and like it's this skill set is so rusty and I don't want to fuck this up.
00:53:05
pjasper
Yeah.
00:53:15
Enrique
So you're hyper aware and it's just draining. You know, so just just having an honest conversation to like, you know,
00:53:19
pjasper
Okay.
00:53:23
Enrique
You just give me a reminder.
00:53:23
pjasper
So, so, so far I've heard like honesty, like asking for help, reminding yourself, you are competent, you are capable and the the sun will come up tomorrow, right?
00:53:25
Mary
Yeah.
00:53:31
Enrique
Mm.
00:53:34
pjasper
It's not the end of the world. Mary, do you have any to add to that?
00:53:38
Mary
ah The ah only, the one thing I wanted to to mention, which was kind of talked about ah ah here was seeking people that you're comfortable asking help from.
00:53:50
Enrique
Mm.
00:53:51
Mary
Like when I
00:53:52
pjasper
Like a mentor.
00:53:53
Mary
ah Mentor, it doesn't even have to be a mentor. It's just someone who gives off you know the energy of, I understand that you're new, and I am totally open to helping you and not judging you.
00:53:56
pjasper
Hmm.
00:54:06
Mary
like I think that's so valuable, and that's why like whenever someone new or like an intern starts, like I'm just like, ask me anything. Honestly, like I was in the exact same position as you.
00:54:14
pjasper
Hmm.
00:54:16
Mary
This is our difficult world we're in, and this field this like expertise field It's just so complicated. So I think for me, that's the most valuable part that I've learned.
00:54:29
pjasper
Okay. You know, I want to come back to the idea of saying I don't know. Yeah, as a scientist, one of the most important things you have to learn is to say I don't know when you don't know otherwise you're lying and or making shit up or you know, shooting from the hip and that there's no place for that in science.
00:54:40
Mary
Yeah.
00:54:46
pjasper
yeah Like we need the truth, right? So you have to um you have to be able to say, I don't know. And that's a skill. And people who are scared of not knowing everything, you know, when they don't know, they just make shit up.
00:55:02
pjasper
And I can tell those people from a mile away now, and I don't trust them, and I kind of avoid them. So when I hear someone say, I don't know, I immediately like them because I know they're like honest with themselves about what they do.
00:55:13
Enrique
Mm-hmm.
00:55:14
pjasper
and i love It's just, yeah, it is.
00:55:14
Mary
Yeah, it's a sign of maturity.
00:55:16
pjasper
Saying, I don't know is a sign of maturity. um so So finally, ah does it get better? Does it get better with time? Does it go away with experience? Eric, I think you brought this up earlier.
00:55:35
Enrique
Well, I wonder if it if it goes away with experience. um But if our definition of imposter syndrome is having experience and not validating that experience, then maybe it doesn't. I don't know the answer to that. I think in my experience,
00:55:53
Enrique
having some skill set or or in my case pieces that I can point to like this is I think part of the thing that drew me to furniture specifically is that there is a tangible thing that I can like touch and feel and knock on and go I made that so that's proof that I have some skill set.
00:56:13
Enrique
And that then allows me to re-anchor myself in those moments of kind of panic and and imposter syndrome at its height. So I guess my answer to the question would be yes and no. In in best case scenario, yes, it does go away with experience because like you you have a body of work that you can point to and you go, no, I know how to do this. Worst case scenario, you don't take that as valid proof that you know what you're doing.
00:56:42
pjasper
Hmm.
00:56:45
pjasper
Kristen, would you say yours got better with time? Or it still happens just as much, you just know how to cope with it. Which of those is true?
00:56:50
Krissy
i I would say that it it still happens, um and like there have been some very powerful moments, especially in the last couple of years. I will say that my skills for dealing with it have definitely improved, which lessens the impact of it.
00:57:08
Krissy
ah you know it's you know I am able to recognize what's going on a lot faster and deal with it faster. so the skills The skills are still there and they're developing and getting stronger, um just like developing a lot of mental skills and you know coping skills as well. it It is essentially a coping skill.
00:57:31
Krissy
um i I don't think it completely goes away, and I also don't think that's the worst thing. um you know You guys had talked about, in perfectionism, okay, it can be a bad thing, but it can also be a powerful thing. you know I think re-evaluating your skills is not a bad thing, and you know saying, okay, is there another way to do this?
00:58:00
Krissy
if you are If you are assessing it correctly and not completely going down the rabbit hole, and I'm a complete failure. i you know I shouldn't be here. I don't deserve this.
00:58:11
Krissy
ah If you can reassess your skills and be self-analytical without getting into the dark mental places, yeah, I think it can be a skill.
00:58:16
pjasper
Okay.
00:58:24
Krissy
It can be helpful. So I don't think it does completely go away. So you just get better at dealing with it.
00:58:30
pjasper
i've Yeah, I found it gets better with me telling myself, well, I don't have to know everything. It's okay to not know everything. And what I have to offer is X. I can teach you how to make this, or I can teach you this. I'm coming, I'm offering this. I'm not offering everything. So this is how I do it, take it or leave it. And if you think it's wrong, or you don't like how I did it, that's totally okay.
00:58:55
pjasper
But this is what I have to offer. I'm not a fraud because I don't know every other way, but I'm just, you know, we're all human. We have a limit of what we know and I'm bringing you what I know. So take it or leave it.
00:59:05
Krissy
You know?
00:59:06
pjasper
I've sort of come to that kind of view instead of expecting myself to know everything.
00:59:12
Mary
who knows everything that's that's like a crazy expectation it seems oh man i mean yeah i i
00:59:16
pjasper
Well, I mean, yeah.
00:59:17
Enrique
that's That's very ironic coming from the person who expects themselves to know everything about all of the things all the time always. don't If you're going to tell me to fuck off, say it in an audio format. Don't flip the bird.
00:59:37
pjasper
All right, kids.
00:59:37
Enrique
ah
00:59:39
Mary
I would repeat everything everyone just said. I mean, it it takes time and I definitely still experience it. Less so for sure. But also the one thing that I want to add is I'm a lot more comfortable in knowing my strengths. And I think that helps alleviate the imposter syndrome. Like this is what I'm good at. I have this whole other area I don't know. And I think that the two balance each other out and I bring this to the table This is what someone else can bring to the table. Let's, you know, share knowledge.
01:00:11
pjasper
It's it sort of accepting that we're all we all have limitations as opposed to expecting perfection of yourself. I like that. All right, kids, I think we talked.
01:00:22
pjasper
Well, it's we're just hit an hour about imposter. It went really fast, actually.
01:00:25
Enrique
good therapy session guys.
01:00:27
Krissy
Yeah.
01:00:27
pjasper
Yeah, it went it went really fast that hour.
01:00:27
Enrique
Yeah
01:00:29
Krissy
How much are we charging each other for this?
01:00:29
pjasper
God.
01:00:34
pjasper
and we And there's a bunch of things, Kristin and I outlined, that we even didn't even get to. We had skipped it all like because we're already at an hour. So ah with that, I think we're going to cut bait on the imposter syndrome.
Violin Trivia with Kristin
01:00:47
pjasper
We hope that was helpful ah to you. And I hope, you know, what a lot of people tell us in social media and messages is like,
01:00:55
pjasper
I really related to so and so's view of that or, you know, Mary said this or, you know, Kristen was talking about that. And it seems like I get so many messages of people relating to one viewer or another. So I hope at least at some point in this conversation, we hit the particular nail you know on the head for you because we it's it's pretty clear everyone's experience is different. With that, we're going to switch to a segment. Now, we always do a second segment and usually it's like feature a fail or Uh, what is it?
01:01:25
pjasper
You know, like, um, woodworking trivia, myth busting, uh, lightning round.
01:01:26
Enrique
Woodworking trivia.
01:01:30
pjasper
But we decided that we're going to let Kristin take the lead and give us some, it's called violin bullshit and it's trivia and myth busting related to the classic instrument.
01:01:35
Enrique
This is dangerous.
01:01:39
Krissy
Yes.
01:01:45
Krissy
I'm so excited. I've been working on this for a couple days.
01:01:48
Enrique
ah So so over prepare.
01:01:48
Krissy
Okay.
01:01:51
Enrique
OK, cool.
01:01:51
Krissy
I did over-prepare. I was trying to think of the weirdest stuff that has happened, but also related to woodworking.
01:01:53
pjasper
ah
01:01:59
Krissy
Okay, so, violin bullshit. we're gonna I'm gonna start out a little bit easy.
01:02:02
pjasper
Okay.
01:02:05
Krissy
where we're gonna do woodworking related and we're gonna go through, okay, what are the different types of woods that are used on a violin, including the fittings?
01:02:17
Enrique
No, you go last.
01:02:18
pjasper
Hey, Kristen, i don't even I don't even know what fittings means.
01:02:19
Enrique
You don't get it.
01:02:22
pjasper
What are fittings?
01:02:22
Enrique
OK. All right. All right. Do we go one at a time? Is this how this works?
01:02:25
Krissy
Yeah, yeah, okay, Paul.
01:02:26
Enrique
All right. Paul? Paul?
01:02:28
pjasper
ah I think ah usually curly maple for the back and the ribs and spruce for the top.
01:02:33
Enrique
One. One at a time. One at a time.
01:02:35
Krissy
one one okay eric okay mary yes yes there are alternatives to
01:02:37
pjasper
Oh, sorry.
01:02:38
Enrique
Spruce for the sound board.
01:02:41
Mary
Ebony.
01:02:45
pjasper
I'm out. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. um um um Is it Sycamore or Beach for the bridge that holds the strings up? Okay, wrong.
01:02:53
Enrique
Are we are we sticking with classic violence specifically or is this like ah just like wooden instruments?
01:03:02
Krissy
To backs, there are some alternatives to maple.
01:03:04
Enrique
There are alternatives to backs.
01:03:06
Krissy
Yes.
01:03:06
Enrique
OK, are we we're not going to.
01:03:08
Krissy
And also the internal parts too.
01:03:11
pjasper
Oh.
01:03:12
Enrique
Oh, don't you nod your head knowingly, Mary. She's so smug right now.
01:03:16
Mary
The
01:03:18
pjasper
Wait, wait, so hold on. So we have maple maple for the back.
01:03:21
Enrique
Maple Spruce and Ebony.
01:03:22
Krissy
Maple, spruce, ebony.
01:03:23
pjasper
Spruce and Ebony is for the thing where you put your fingers.
01:03:26
Mary
fingerboard.
01:03:27
Krissy
Yes, the fingerboard.
01:03:27
pjasper
Fingerboard.
01:03:28
pjasper
Okay.
01:03:28
Enrique
and And for the fittings, right the tuning the tuting knobs.
01:03:28
Krissy
Yeah.
01:03:30
pjasper
What are fittings?
01:03:30
Krissy
Sometimes for the fittings, there are other other options for the fittings as well.
01:03:34
Enrique
OK, is Rosewood on the table for those?
01:03:36
Krissy
Yeah, there you go.
01:03:36
Enrique
Amazing, thank you.
01:03:38
Krissy
Count it.
01:03:40
Enrique
got Paul, this is an audio medium. If you want to tell me to fuck off, say it.
01:03:43
pjasper
ah
01:03:45
pjasper
Fuck off with your fucking smug, your fucking smug Rosewood shit.
01:03:49
Enrique
i'm just trying I'm just trying to beat Mary right now, buddy. We're on the same team.
01:03:52
pjasper
Okay. All right, go.
01:03:54
Mary
Willow would.
01:03:56
Krissy
Willow, yeah.
01:03:56
Enrique
You son of a bitch.
01:03:57
pjasper
What?
01:03:57
Mary
Yep.
01:03:59
Krissy
hu
01:04:00
pjasper
what's Where's that?
01:04:01
Krissy
ah It can be the back.
01:04:02
Enrique
Comes from a willow tree.
01:04:02
Mary
Like internal stuff, right?
01:04:03
Krissy
It can also be the corner blocks and linings.
01:04:09
Enrique
Horse glue.
01:04:11
Mary
That's not a wood!
01:04:12
Krissy
That's a later question. You're skipping a...
01:04:16
Enrique
I'm just saying things I know that violins are built with at this point. Brass rod.
01:04:21
Krissy
No.
01:04:21
pjasper
What else? ah How about the bridge?
01:04:23
Enrique
Are there more?
01:04:23
Mary
i I know of Boxwood.
01:04:24
Enrique
How how many we got?
01:04:24
pjasper
What's the bridge?
01:04:25
Krissy
Okay. Boxwood.
01:04:29
Mary
Yeah.
01:04:29
Krissy
Wait, did you... Eric, did you say Boxwood?
01:04:31
Enrique
Yes.
01:04:31
Mary
No, he did not!
01:04:32
Krissy
No, no, he said rosewood. Okay, boxwood.
01:04:35
Enrique
um
01:04:35
pjasper
What's it what's it used for?
01:04:36
Krissy
Okay, boxwood can be pegs, chin rest, and pin.
01:04:36
pjasper
What's boxwood?
01:04:43
Mary
Yeah, that's all I know.
01:04:44
Krissy
Yeah.
01:04:44
Enrique
Pop pie.
01:04:47
Krissy
I think I've only got ah two more.
01:04:50
pjasper
Okay, go ahead.
01:04:52
Krissy
Poplar and pear.
01:04:53
Enrique
I was going to say poplar, but I didn't think that was true.
01:04:54
Mary
Oh!
01:04:55
Krissy
Uh-huh.
01:04:56
pjasper
yeah What do they use for?
01:04:56
Enrique
Damn it.
01:04:58
Krissy
Backs.
01:04:59
pjasper
Oh.
01:05:00
Krissy
Yeah, backs and ribs. Yep. So Italian poplar is really, really beautiful.
01:05:00
Enrique
Poplar is used for a back really interesting so sign of batches Those if we don't make a t-shirt that says American poplar looks like a bag of dicks I quit this show
01:05:06
pjasper
Really?
01:05:07
Krissy
Yeah.
01:05:08
Mary
Paul is so, like, in such disgust!
01:05:09
Krissy
I'll find a picture. I'll find a picture and sell you.
01:05:12
pjasper
I'm like, American Poplar looks like a bag of dicks, so.
01:05:12
Krissy
Send it to you.
01:05:21
pjasper
ah
01:05:21
Krissy
All right. Well,
01:05:31
Krissy
ah
01:05:35
Krissy
All right.
01:05:35
Enrique
All right, what's it what's the next one?
01:05:35
Mary
Okay, I'd like to point out that I that i got more than Eric just saying.
01:05:35
Krissy
what youre Yes, you did get more than Eric.
01:05:39
Enrique
ah but But if Paul and I are on the same team, which is true, then we tied.
01:05:45
Mary
what
01:05:47
pjasper
And Bag of Dicks just won outright.
01:05:47
Mary
How is that fair?
01:05:49
Enrique
Bag of dicks just won it. let's just That's just the winning.
01:05:50
pjasper
That just wrote won the whole thing outright.
01:05:52
Enrique
Yeah.
01:05:52
pjasper
Wait, Kristen, what's the what's the bridge? Where did the strings go over it? What's that thing made of?
01:05:57
Krissy
Maple.
01:05:58
pjasper
Oh, that's Maple? Oh, okay.
01:06:00
Enrique
Italian poplar.
01:06:02
Mary
but
01:06:02
Enrique
Okay, all right, what else you got?
01:06:03
Mary
F-holes!
01:06:03
pjasper
B-O-D.
01:06:03
Krissy
All right, are we ready for the next one?
01:06:05
Enrique
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
01:06:05
pjasper
Yup.
01:06:06
Krissy
It's a it's a what is this part called?
01:06:09
pjasper
Okay.
01:06:09
Enrique
Bag of dicks.
01:06:11
Krissy
What are these called?
01:06:12
pjasper
ah
01:06:13
Enrique
Sound hole.
01:06:14
Mary
eholes
01:06:15
Krissy
F-holes. F-holes are sound holes. Okay, I'll give it to you.
01:06:18
Enrique
All right, listen, that's a one-to-one, all right?
01:06:21
pjasper
a-holes mmm
01:06:21
Krissy
Okay, I'll get a tie there. um do you do Should we do she would do trivia or another what's this?
01:06:26
Enrique
Damn right, that's how you politic, Mary, get on my level.
01:06:32
Enrique
I just wanna to beat Mary.
01:06:32
pjasper
well trivia sinew
01:06:33
Mary
Mmm, chirvia.
01:06:36
Krissy
Trivia, what were strings historically made out of?
01:06:41
Enrique
Horsehair.
01:06:43
Mary
Oh, I feel like I know this. Isn't it like goat something or sheep something?
01:06:46
Enrique
Goats. A bag of dicks.
01:06:50
Mary
Oh my God. I feel like I know this.
01:06:51
Enrique
Goat intestines.
01:06:52
pjasper
Is it like sinew?
01:06:53
Krissy
Gut, gut, sheep gut.
01:06:56
pjasper
What? Sheep gut?
01:06:56
Mary
Yeah.
01:06:57
Mary
Yeah.
01:06:58
Krissy
you Sheep gut, yeah.
01:06:58
pjasper
That's what I meant by sinew.
01:07:01
pjasper
I did, I did.
01:07:01
Mary
I said sheep something!
01:07:02
Krissy
Yeah, okay, all right, Paul got that one.
01:07:05
pjasper
Wait, is that the definition of sinew?
01:07:05
Enrique
What?
01:07:06
Enrique
What?
01:07:07
pjasper
I use sinew.
01:07:07
Enrique
No, sinew is muscle.
01:07:07
Krissy
I don't know. it's Is it muscle?
01:07:09
pjasper
Is it?
01:07:10
Enrique
Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:13
Krissy
It's gut.
01:07:14
Enrique
You don't describe somebody's gut as sinewy.
01:07:14
Krissy
It's intestine.
01:07:17
pjasper
No, Dick.
01:07:17
Enrique
Like.
01:07:18
pjasper
It's no, I just, I just,
01:07:18
Krissy
It's all stretchy and flexible.
01:07:18
Mary
I do!
01:07:20
Krissy
No, it's not muscle.
01:07:21
pjasper
wait i just looked it up you fucking charlatan it's a piece of tough fibrous tissue uniting muscle to bone or bone to bone a tendon or a ligament so i'm wrong anyway because i'm totally wrong but it's not muscle dick but okay let's
01:07:26
Enrique
Yeah.
01:07:30
Enrique
You know what neither of those things are?
01:07:31
Krissy
No, this is intestine.
01:07:32
Enrique
It's a gun.
01:07:33
Krissy
No, no, yeah that does not count.
01:07:40
Enrique
It's a sinewy gut that man has.
01:07:43
Krissy
Okay, all right, we got and we got another, what's this?
01:07:46
Enrique
Mary, oh I just want anybody watching the YouTube video right now should just see Mary's face because when we talk about Mario Kart and how she gets silent when she's really trying to win, this is exactly what's happening right now.
01:07:56
pjasper
Oh, I saw it before she just started smiling.
01:07:56
Mary
ah
01:08:00
Enrique
uh-huh uh-huh okay go ahead what's this a
01:08:05
pjasper
More, more, more.
01:08:05
Krissy
Okay, okay. What is this? It is an S-shaped tool with a clover on one end and a little spine on the other.
01:08:17
Enrique
butt plug
01:08:19
Mary
I don't know what kind of butt you're plugging, but I don't know.
01:08:23
pjasper
I would not want, I don't know.
01:08:25
Krissy
You don't know what this is?
01:08:27
pjasper
Nope.
01:08:27
Krissy
Mary, did you ever go in for an adjustment?
01:08:30
Mary
Uh, yes, but I never asked.
01:08:34
pjasper
What kind of adjustment Mary?
01:08:39
Krissy
Okay, this is a sound post setter.
01:08:43
Mary
Oh, interesting.
01:08:43
Krissy
so Inside violin, there's a little stick on the inside.
01:08:43
pjasper
oh
01:08:47
Krissy
so This reaches inside the F-holes and allows you to move it around.
01:08:53
Enrique
So it's not, so it's a violins butt plug.
01:08:53
Krissy
so One end, you stick it on there.
01:08:56
Enrique
Like I think I'm not that far off.
01:08:56
Krissy
it I mean, you have to look in the butt hole to adjust it.
01:08:57
pjasper
Fair.
01:09:02
pjasper
Fair.
01:09:04
Enrique
I feel like I get a quarter of a point for that.
01:09:05
pjasper
All right. No, you've you but you both failed that.
01:09:09
Krissy
No deal, no deal here.
01:09:09
pjasper
Kristin got the point. Wait, I want one more trivia. More trivia. Go.
01:09:13
Krissy
Okay, this is a process of elimination, or one of these answers is not the item. Which one of these things has not been found inside of an instrument?
01:09:29
Krissy
Rattle steak rattle, a tree air freshener, vomit, ashes from cremation,
01:09:35
Mary
No! but
01:09:38
Krissy
a used band-aid or dirty limericks.
01:09:43
Enrique
all of the above, they've all been found in an instrument.
01:09:45
pjasper
I think all, yeah.
01:09:46
Mary
Yeah.
01:09:47
Enrique
That's a trick question.
01:09:48
pjasper
It is.
01:09:49
Mary
Yeah, I think so too.
01:09:50
Enrique
Yup, yup, yup.
01:09:52
Mary
They're so specific!
01:09:52
pjasper
What?
01:09:53
Enrique
I can spot a trick question a mile away.
01:09:57
pjasper
A rattlesnake rattle?
01:09:58
Krissy
I have not personally pulled a used band-aid out of there, but I'm sure that some little elementary school kid has just plopped that in there.
01:10:04
Mary
Oh yeah, for sure.
01:10:06
pjasper
What was your, Kristen, what was your best thing you found inside of violin?
01:10:11
Krissy
Um, a bug, a spider, like a living spider.
01:10:16
Mary
Oh God.
01:10:17
Krissy
It was so gross. You looked in, okay, looked in the butthole and saw a spider.
01:10:21
pjasper
Did you did you like scream and throw oh My god who why
01:10:22
Enrique
that's Everybody's worst nightmare.
01:10:24
Krissy
I was like, okay, we're gonna put that down.
01:10:28
Mary
Oof. Oh, so interesting.
01:10:30
Krissy
But yeah, rattlesnake, plenty of rattlesnake rattles. It's a fiddle thing.
01:10:37
Enrique
It's a fiddle thing, like it just it changes.
01:10:38
Krissy
Yeah, it is a fiddle thing.
01:10:39
Mary
Like a, like a rhythmic thing?
01:10:40
Enrique
It changes the sound.
01:10:41
Krissy
I get buzzes.
01:10:43
Krissy
like Normally, buzzes are a bad thing, but fiddle players love them.
01:10:43
Mary
Yeah.
01:10:44
Mary
ah
01:10:44
Enrique
Hmm.
01:10:47
Enrique
Interesting.
01:10:48
pjasper
Oh, that makes sense.
01:10:48
Krissy
Anyways, they're weird. They're in there, but Ashes from the Cremation is definitely the weirdest.
01:10:56
pjasper
That was you.
01:10:56
Mary
That is weird.
01:10:56
Enrique
that's
01:10:58
Krissy
um That was one of my teachers had that happen.
01:11:00
Enrique
That's... Man.
01:11:02
Krissy
Hey, you've got a little dirt in here today. Oh, don't worry about that. It's just Frank.
01:11:05
pjasper
That's just Frank.
01:11:05
Enrique
Oh, that's... yeah Fucking Frank, always getting where he's not supposed to be.
01:11:07
Krissy
It's just Frank.
01:11:11
Mary
Oh my gosh, that's wild.
01:11:12
Krissy
Uh, yeah.
01:11:12
pjasper
Oh God. That's crazy.
01:11:16
Mary
Oh man.
01:11:17
pjasper
All right, well, we have more, but we're out of time.
01:11:17
Krissy
Okay.
01:11:21
pjasper
It's an hour and 10 minutes. We're gonna save the rest for the aftershow. So for those of you who would like to hear the aftershow, which we will discuss more trivia and probably more other dirty stuff, you can join us on...
01:11:33
Enrique
Definitely more butt plugs.
01:11:35
pjasper
you can you can join us on Patreon. All right, everyone. Well, with that, we hope you enjoyed today's episode on imposter syndrome and we will see you.
01:11:47
pjasper
Oh, wait. And thanks to Kristin for being our special guest.
01:11:49
Enrique
Yeah, I was gonna say, are we just gonna dip out?
01:11:50
Mary
yeah absolutely
01:11:51
Krissy
Thanks for having me.
01:11:51
pjasper
Yeah.
01:11:52
pjasper
Sorry, sorry. Yeah, that was amazing, Kristin, to give us, yeah, you you are a super high achiever.
01:11:52
Enrique
Thanks, buddy.
01:11:55
Enrique
It's a great episode.
01:11:58
pjasper
You were raised by super high achieving parents. You continue to be an expert in your field, and now you're helping others talk by talking about imposter syndrome.
01:12:02
Enrique
Mm-hmm.
01:12:08
pjasper
And God, the ice in your cup is so goddamn loud.
01:12:09
Mary
Yeah, absolutely.
01:12:10
Enrique
Every fucking time she picks up that cup, man. yeah
01:12:14
pjasper
All right, we're gonna quit so Kristin can have a drink of water in peace. All right, thanks everyone.
01:12:23
Enrique
Thanks, France.
01:12:23
Mary
Thank you!
01:12:24
pjasper
We'll see you next time.
01:12:25
Enrique
Stay weird.
01:12:25
Krissy
Thank you.
01:12:26
pjasper
Bye.