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Tips for Raising Independent Children
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In this week’s episode, the moms kick things off with fall traditions—from wine slushies and pumpkin muffins to controversial apple-picking opinions. Then they get real with their “Mom Fails,” reflecting on guilt, overwhelm, and the daily juggle of motherhood.
The main conversation dives into a topic every parent wrestles with: raising independent kids. The hosts share honest stories about letting go, teaching responsibility, encouraging problem-solving, and managing the tension between helping and hovering. They discuss the emotional hurdles (like worrying about judgment), the benefits of natural consequences, and the long-term payoff of letting kids figure things out.
With perspectives from former teachers, helicopter moms-in-recovery, and survival-mode parenting, this episode is full of relatable laughs, mistakes, and aha moments.
They close with their Peaks and Pits of the week—because balance, right?
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Transcript
Social Media Interruptions by Kids
00:00:00
Speaker
My kid will be like, so I'll be in the middle of a voiceover and I just do them on my phone for like social media and they'll walk through and nine times out of 10, they interrupt and they'll be like, oh, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I'll be like, that's okay. And then I go start to record again. and then last night, After our last episode talking about sharing our kids, I am going to throw my son under the bus because he's old enough to know better. Come on. He's a freshman.
00:00:26
Speaker
So we walked by. He interrupts. And he's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. sorry And then he sits down and he starts playing with like these blocks that we have, like acrylic blocks. And so I hear in the background like rattle, rattle, rattle, rattle. And I look over and he's like, oh.
00:00:42
Speaker
oh You can hear that? And I'm like, yeah, bro. And then he'll also come and sit down with like headphones on and he'll be singing along to the thing and we'll look over and we'll be like, what?
00:00:54
Speaker
What? And it's like... We can hear you. yeah You are making sound. Like the thought that. I love when headphones are on and they think like my four-year-old, whenever she has headphones on, she listens to that Tony box, which are way too loud. Why do they make those so loud?
00:01:12
Speaker
And she'll come in and she'll be like, mom, I need help. But just at a decibel, I'm not going to And we're all like, Finley, we can all yeah hear you. That's so funny. Yeah. I get the loud thing. I don't know. I just, I feel like he's too old. He's always so surprised when we'll be like, no more. Cause it's usually rap or something that no one wants to be listening to.
Introduction and Focus on Mom Experiences
00:01:33
Speaker
He's so, he's surprised every time. Yeah. Every time. It's like, just go in the other room. welcome to just for moms i'm charlotte i'm caitlin i'm megan and i'm callie we are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging parenthood work-life balance and figuring out what's for dinner again a no judgment zone to talk laugh and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis plan all right should we officially get started yeah All right, welcome back everyone.
Fall Activities and Traditions
00:02:01
Speaker
Just for moms, Callie, Megan, Charlotte, Caitlin.
00:02:04
Speaker
i don't have a great talking like starting point other than today I was walking Arthur to the bus stop and it was so crisp and beautiful and like leaves were down and it was the first day that I was like, this is fall.
00:02:21
Speaker
And it got me thinking, do you guys, is there any one specific thing that when fall arrives that you guys are like, oh, This is like we're going apple picking or is there one specific thing that you guys do to commemorate the season or is it sort of everything you would imagine?
00:02:37
Speaker
I don't know, Megan. Megan. So definitely the apple picking, that's like a must. But me personally, i love the wine slushies in the fall from the vineyards. I don't know if you guys have had them, but they are amazing off the charts.
00:02:56
Speaker
They can mix them with different flavors and kinds and they're so good. I mean, you got to be careful. I have like two and I'm done. so good That feels like a summery thing, but I'm only, I'm thinking of like a frosé. This is a little different?
00:03:10
Speaker
Yes. They call them apple slushies and I've had them with girlfriends. And then like when Joe and I went, you know, we're with our kids, so it's, you know, we'll each have one. But like when you're going with your girlfriends, you're really enjoying them. I've never been to a vineyard around here.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yes. There's one up by you, Caitlin. Yeah. There's two. There's two in my town in Paradise Hills. They do wine slushies. We just had them at our celebrate Wallingford last weekend.
00:03:36
Speaker
I didn't get to get one. Are they amazing? Oh, okay. well Well, no, I've had them in the past. This time I didn't get to get one because I didn't venture out of my tent. Do you have anything, Caitlin? You know, it's like I always falls here. Let's go apple picking, but it's hot and falls here. Let's decorate outside, but it's hot.
00:03:54
Speaker
You know, you said the thing about it being crisp and cool that I bought stuff to make pumpkin muffins. It's the easiest recipe in the world. It's ginger spice cake mix, a can of pumpkin and applesauce.
00:04:08
Speaker
My kids think it's they're delicious and amazing and they're so easy to eat if you do the mini ones. I feel like we need to do that. before we go, um before we do anything else.
00:04:19
Speaker
And making a pot of chili. Those are both like fall to me. Yeah, I love that. Also, I'm noticing all of you three are wearing stripes. Thanks for keeping me out, guys. oh We text about it just behind your back. Let's all wear stripes and not tell Charlotte. What is yours, Callie, aside from stripes?
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know I have, like, I don't know. i mean, i love to get, like, just such a stupid basic woman thing to get, like, a pumpkin spice latte just because. You know what mean? um And I do love all the fall foods, but I can't – I have to wait until it's cold enough to, like, make chili and to make butternut squash soup and, like, to do all of those.
Apple Picking: Love and Grievances
00:04:56
Speaker
i can't.
00:04:57
Speaker
Just because it says it's fall, I can't do it just because. But I do. I feel like it's all mostly food related for me. And I don't know if I'm like um a fall Grinch, but I don't like going apple picking. Fair.
00:05:08
Speaker
It's always too hot. There's too many bees. And you pick three apples and then you're done. And it was just a lot of work. And it's a hundred dollars for like three apples. Yeah. When they're little, it's, we haven't been for a while, but my second is bugging us.
00:05:24
Speaker
And when they're older, it's just like, I don't know if you get lost, like we'll meet you over at the tractor in an hour. Like, I like, I like, I'm in on the blueberry picking. Cause that takes a while, you know? Yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker
It's just hot for blueberries. But yeah, I just like, my son keeps asking when we're going to go apple picking this year. And I'm trying to like, be like, we already did it. And like, hope he doesn't. You know, but I don't.
00:05:46
Speaker
I'm just hoping that the moment passes because I don't want to go. Oh, no. was to say we went. We had so many apples because, you know, my toddler insisted she carry a bucket. And then the older girls are like, well, wait, we need a bucket. And she's going to put sour, mushed up apples in there.
00:06:01
Speaker
So we came home with $45 worth of apples. And I'm like, I'm going to make apple crisps. And then it got hot and then I had to go to work and then they sat on the counter and then everyone ate most of them. And then the other ones got mealy.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But we did it because the kids wanted to. Yeah. Yeah. I do have to say if you need pumpkins, Costco has amazing big pumpkins. And if you go to, you know, buy them at a farm, I feel like they're triple the price. So just so much money. Last year went to a farm and we spent like $300 on pumpkins and we're like, wait, what?
00:06:36
Speaker
So this year i bought them all at Big Y for like 50 bucks. All of our pumpkins done. They're beautiful. They're huge. That's another one. We started going to – We're going to go to the pumpkin patch. We already went. You don't remember? Yeah, we went. That's why.
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah. We've started going to Stu Leonard's, and I've never been inside the building at Stu Leonard's. Like the only thing I've ever bought there is pumpkins. Yeah. Oh. Oh, you've got to go inside. It's great in there.
00:07:02
Speaker
I know. I know. It's like not quite close enough to us, and when I'm there with the kids, we don't need to go in. and Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Same. It's not close enough me to go to. Yeah.
00:07:13
Speaker
We're getting a Trader Joe's right near us though. They're building one in Hamden and it is basically like the best thing that's going to ever happen to the people that live in this area because I either have to drive to Orange, which is ah could be 30 minutes, or to West Hartford, which is that could be 40 minutes.
00:07:33
Speaker
And now there's going to be one 15 minutes from my house and I'm
Grocery Shopping Adventures
00:07:36
Speaker
just... I'm so jealous. I don't have Trader Joe's or Whole Foods in a 45 minute radius of me, so... We're getting one of those too.
00:07:45
Speaker
huh Is that your neighbor, Callie? Yeah. No, there's not sound coming from me. Is there sound coming from me? It's not noisy here. Or someone. I can't tell where. We – I'm – There.
00:07:56
Speaker
I hear it. What do you hear? It sounded like a leaf blower. Oh, I thought because I was going to say i heard my surprise my my ice machine, you know, because it was weak.
00:08:07
Speaker
The ice in our freezer is not good enough for my girl. So now we have an ice machine that makes three different shapes and sizes. That's what it is. That's what you get. went to an event a couple of weeks ago and they are now, they now have full refrigerators that make those perfectly round.
Gardening Talk: Hydrangeas and Mums
00:08:24
Speaker
Like, is that the ice machine you have?
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. It makes three or four different sizes, big, medium, and then little, little, small. Yeah. That they like that this week. Yeah. So my fall, it's I think it's like all the basic bitch stuff, the pumpkin spice latte chili. And then for me, i love when it's just cool enough and you can get the mums for the front planters and like hope that they're not just going to fry.
00:08:50
Speaker
yeah I've done a pretty good job with mine this year, but that's always for me. It's like, okay, I think it's cool enough that I can bring out the mums. I have a question about mums. Can you tell me? don't know. you plant to them, what happens?
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah. ah oh I don't know that they will winter. No, they won't winter, but they will live longer. There's actually people on our street here that planted theirs. And i was like, oh, that's actually smart because they're still alive when mine mine fried because I couldn't wait.
00:09:16
Speaker
Well, yeah, the farm that we get our moms from, were checking out, the farmer said, we have these two racks over here. go take two for free. was like, what's wrong with them?
00:09:28
Speaker
And they go, oh, well, they're just, you know, they're kind of bonked around and just plant them in your yard. So Brandon and Arbor planted them and they look beautiful. But I'm like, so then what happens though? When it's winter, do we dig them up?
00:09:39
Speaker
No, they just, I'm looking it up. Our moms, oh my God. There must be like schmutz on my keypad when I went to type. It was like not even close. Yeah. I don't think you'll get them back, but maybe that's wrong. I don't know.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah. Let's see. You'll have to keep us updated on what happens. Right? Are mums annuals or perennials? Mums are technically perennials, but the ones commonly sold in the fall are often treated as annuals because they're heavily focused on blooming and may not survive the winter.
00:10:12
Speaker
Garden mums, also called hardy mums, are true perennials and can come back year after year if planted in the spring or early fall. Well, look at that. There you We're just goingnna have to wait and see what happens.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yep. But there's also this sneaky speaking of plants that we buy, and I finally learned this. Did you know that there's certain hydrangeas that are come out like typically around Mother's Day? And they're called Mother's Day hydrangeas for this reason, because if you plant them, they won't ever come back.
00:10:38
Speaker
Like they won't die, but they won't flower really ever again. And maybe if you're a real gardener, you can figure it out. But I had a couple hydrangeas the old house that never bloomed. And I mentioned to someone and they were like, yeah, they're probably Mother's Day hydrangeas that they sell them because they look so beautiful in the spring. And then they just don't. And then that's it.
00:10:58
Speaker
Kind of. That's lame. You know what's interesting, Charlotte? Our hydrangea plant out here by the street, last year the landscaper, by accident, cut all the way down to the stems, right? So I was worried it wasn't going to come back. It came back, and I shared a ah picture on my stories.
00:11:16
Speaker
They are huge, like yeah huge this year, and like enormous. I need to – someone was like, you should trim them and put them in a vase and the and dry them, and you could like keep them for like a year. I was like, okay, I'll try it.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah. Hydrangeas hurt my brain because I never know which is which and you cut them on old wood or new wood and blah, blah, blah, blah. All that. It's so confusing. It's so confusing. I can't. I don't have time for that. No.
00:11:42
Speaker
Okay.
Mom Guilt and Balancing Attention
00:11:43
Speaker
Let's move into mom fails. ah Who has a mom fail? Callie, do you have a mom fail? Yeah. My mom fails just, I feel like lately, I feel like I've said this one before, so it's just a recurring mom fail.
00:11:54
Speaker
I feel like I'm always feeling like I'm never not giving my oldest son equal attention, which is just part, I think, of part of the course, right? Like I've got a one-year-old and a two-year-old and then a four-year-old. And so he's just far more independent But sometimes I just find myself feeling really guilty about it. And then sometimes like it gets to the end of the night and and and he doesn't even really bring it up. It's not he's like, Mom, you don't spend time with me. But I just I don't know. I'm just feeling there's like this weird. feeling And I think it's just him growing up, too. It's like weird feeling of him kind of like slipping through my fingers in some ways, which he's supposed to do. He's supposed to like get older.
00:12:30
Speaker
but I don't know, like like I'm like missing everything. You know, he was my firstborn, so, like, I knew every milestone of his life. And then now I'm, like, I didn't even know it was pitcher day. And so, you know, like, stuff like that. And so I'm just feeling, like, am I dropping? And I know I'm not. But, you know, mom guilt creeps in either way.
00:12:46
Speaker
Yeah. yeah I feel that with our youngest because we would read aloud with all the other kids. I don't think we've read aloud. and And part of it is that he just is happy to sit and, like, listen to his books. And i think we've even offered. And he's like, no, I'm okay.
00:13:00
Speaker
But – Like I can't remember the last time i read a book with him. No. I know. And they all just get kind of different versions of us, which is fine too. Oh, oh I can't. Excuse me. Wow. This is very exciting. i hope that everybody's watching this on YouTube.
00:13:16
Speaker
Where's Olive now? Go get Olive. Yeah. He's going bother me, my geriatric friend. Yeah. No, I guess mine is pretty much the same as Callie's, except it's my middle child. It's like I don't know what's – I actually don't know what's going on with any of them, but my oldest.
00:13:35
Speaker
Like, Arbor, this morning I'm driving her to school, and she's like, what did the calendar say today is? Because I only drive her on Mondays and Thursdays. I was like, I don't know. i would have always known for the other two.
00:13:46
Speaker
And then Eileen, just – because I'm never – like, I'm just not home a lot, or when I am here, somebody's making me do something, I don't know what's going on with her either.
00:13:57
Speaker
yeah, I feel guilty. And I'm try like i trying to make time for Arbor. I talked about that in a couple episodes ago, giving her that one-on-one time. So now I have to find I guess, with my middle child.
00:14:10
Speaker
But yeah, i'm I'm really proud I remembered it was picture day because for the last couple years, I haven't. and I did today for my oldest, though, because I remember everything for her. Okay.
00:14:23
Speaker
What is yours, Megan? you have mom? Mine's actually a little similar to yours, Charlotte. So Nico eight. No, now nine. Oops, nine. He likes me to read with him, which I love to do. He reads to me, but we have a little problem.
00:14:39
Speaker
He asks me at like five four or five o'clock, right? It's the end of the day. i keep falling asleep. Yes. When he's reading to you, you fall asleep. Yeah.
00:14:50
Speaker
And he's like... He's like, mom, can you, like the ah yesterday, can we read together? But like, can you not fall asleep again? Can you just pretend you're resting your eyes because you had a really long day? Yeah, I just like, that's the part of the day when you're like starting to get tired, you know, and then you sit, which like once you sit, it's done. forget it.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, I try to stay awake or sometimes I'm like, just tap, just like elbow me if you don't know a word, right? And then I'll be like, where is it? Oh, yes. You know, about. And then it's like.
00:15:21
Speaker
back to sleep. But it's bad that I do it, but I just like, I'm so tired sometimes. I can't help it. So that's my mom fail. No, it doesn't mean you don't love your
Fostering Independence in Children
00:15:30
Speaker
child. Listening to children read is excruciating.
00:15:34
Speaker
Horrific. Yeah. Night, night. ah So my official mom fail is, so Halloween is approaching and my kids are beginning to figure out costumes. I still have three that do costumes. And for my middle girls, costumes is now like a group effort, which is great. It's super cute. I love it.
00:15:56
Speaker
But it also means that they, like at some point they just started buying everything on Amazon. And that has never been the way that I've approached costumes. I've always been like, how can we make it, like buy a mask and tweak it? And that's sort of my favorite part of Halloween.
00:16:14
Speaker
And then at some point, It's like I look in my cart. It's like one of them is going to be a boxer. And so it's like what are she can't be the only one with the handmade costumes. They're all getting the same shorts and the same gloves and the same thing, whatever it is.
00:16:30
Speaker
And so I can't say no because it's a fun, cute thing. And all of these costumes are sort of clever. And none of them are like slutty nurse. They're all kind of cute costumes. But it's like I don't know where.
00:16:42
Speaker
Like at some point it just got away from me. So now we're just buying Halloween costumes. Yeah. Or mine, Nico's but changed his mind like three times. I have two to return. I'm just like over that. du You just pick one.
00:16:53
Speaker
Enough. And I've also, we did the inflatable costume. This is a PSA for parents everywhere. Just don't do it. Louisa's popped. She popped like walking into the classroom. It like snagged on the door. And so she was in tears before the parade.
00:17:08
Speaker
They can't use their arms. They can't hold the thing. It's loud. The batteries run out. Like don't, they look funny if you're a teacher and you want to do a relay race as a bunch of dinosaurs. That's fine. It's cute. Tee it up on social media. Go for it.
00:17:20
Speaker
But I just think kids and inflatable costumes, it just never ends well. Yeah, no. And to go to the bathroom, it's a whole production. Yeah. Forget about it. Okay, let's move into our topic.
00:17:32
Speaker
I texted you guys this morning because I was confident that we had talked about this. And the topic is how to foster or build independence with kids.
00:17:44
Speaker
I'm making the assumption that that is something that all of us are deliberately trying to achieve, but maybe that's not fair. Would you guys all say that like raising independent kids is something that you're deliberate about?
00:17:57
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Trying, trying. So I did a quick, like I did want to bring in some data, but I didn't get too carried away with it because I think I typed in some like, you know, bullshit description of like, what is the importance of like children with independence?
00:18:12
Speaker
And the first thing that i got back was, felt like a home run. It said, data indicates a significant decline in childhood independence with less unsupervised play and independent travel over the past decades, which I think jives with Lots of things that we've talked about and experienced as parents.
00:18:30
Speaker
And i think what what is most problematic is that this is contributing to potential mental health concerns. So while parents often want to foster independence, many are hindered by fears of child safety, concern about being perceived negatively, and perceived lack of readiness in their children. So we talked about this.
00:18:51
Speaker
Callie, we I think it was your episode when we were talking about the... um The Jonathan Haidt and the like let- Let grow. Let grow. and megan's ah Megan's episode about modeling social at screen time.
00:19:07
Speaker
Okay. But it was how like parents really do worry that if someone were to see like an eight-year-old walking around the street that they would get in trouble. So I, you know, we've talked about that. And then studies show increased independence and risky play are linked to higher self-confidence, better problem solving, and improved mental well-being.
00:19:26
Speaker
So the the things that just to bullet point it, less unsupervised activity, reduced independent mobility. So kids aren't like riding their bikes to school or riding scooters to school, less risky play.
00:19:41
Speaker
And then the one that I think I see the most, certainly in my neck of the woods, is increased structured time. So these kids go from school right to seven different activities and there's never an afternoon when they're just sitting around like, what do you want to do, guys?
00:19:56
Speaker
So I'm not just the one talking because this is a soapbox that I pull out all the time. And I always caveat my own experience with, you know, I think being in the classroom certainly hones your muscles for teaching independence because you just have 18 kids and you can't physically meet all of their needs at any given time. Like you have to encourage them to go tie your own shoe or go see if you can find someone who knows how to tie shoes. Don't come to me.
00:20:23
Speaker
And then, you know, I have a bunch of kids and they're close together. So there are definitely times as a parent when I just physically couldn't you know, I'm feeding a child, so I can't do what you need. Why don't you go try?
00:20:34
Speaker
And so that has become just part of our routine, but I don't know that it was something that I was as cognitive of as it was just like a means to the end.
00:20:44
Speaker
So for the three of you, what are some things, like how do you feel about independence with your kids and what are some things that you have done to sort of be deliberate about teaching it.
00:20:58
Speaker
What do you think, Caitlin? I'll start with you. So I don't like, I can't pinpoint the the first time i was like, okay, you know what? So-and-so is to do this by themselves because I don't want to do it anymore. It's probably probably how it started where I don't want to do this anymore.
00:21:13
Speaker
They should learn how to do this. And having two older children that are five and eight years older than their youngest my youngest child, they have they could easily do nothing, but I wanted them to learn how to take care of themselves, to learn how to help take care of take care of their sister.
00:21:33
Speaker
And so I wasn't just holding everyone's hand every single day while we did you know our whole entire routine.
Teaching Responsibility and Natural Consequences
00:21:40
Speaker
So like I said, I can't figure out when that when when things changed because there was a significant change. I used to be the mother who did every single little thing for for my two girls. But then when I had Arbor, I knew that, all Annabelle and Eileen need to remember to brush their teeth before bed. I shouldn't have to do this for them. They need to know how to.
00:22:00
Speaker
go in the dryer and look for something that you're supposed to wear. and something recently I'm doing is I'm allowing like not bad things to happen, but like I'm allowing them to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes with the hopes that they will take, become more independent and self-sufficient and then not make that mistake again. So even something as simple as I'm trying to think of something I did recently where I said, now you're just going to learn from this.
00:22:30
Speaker
Oh, ah my oldest forgot to bring a pair of shorts for cross-country practice. Only wore leggings. It was going to be warm. Was blowing up my, she can email me from her little Google classroom.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I wrote back, no, you're going to run in pants because you need to learn how to pack your own bag in the morning. You're going to be 12 years old. I think that's, you know, important. But as I'm saying this, I'm thinking about how she walked into school the other day wearing sandals when it was raining because she forgot she put sandals on and had cross country after school. And instead of me being like, well, you didn't get yourself prepped. You got to go throughout the whole day with sandals and no sneakers. I did bring them to her. So, you know, there's, I pick and choose when I'm going to make her be responsible for herself, but I just, I don't want my children to grow up and not know how to do anything and to, to be waiting for someone to do it for them. I think it's really important that they know how to take care of themselves and, you know,
00:23:29
Speaker
I think something you mentioned that I mentioned in my notes as well is just the the notion of trial and error and making mistakes and how that is how we fundamentally learn. If I were to be like, slow down on the way to the airport, slow down, slow down. Like you could hear me say that until I'm purple in the face. It's not until you have those blue lights behind you that you're like, oh gosh, I should have slowed down. Like I just think human experience and human psychology, we just sometimes need to experience things for ourselves. And so i think as parents, we're that much older and we're programmed to lead like a mistake-free life and we're trying to impose that on our kids, but they have got we've got to create safe ways for them to make mistakes or else they're never going to internalize and learn sort of whatever lesson it is we're trying to impart. And if it's being responsible for your
00:24:24
Speaker
gym gear, then, you know, sorry, you were a little hot. That for me, there's that that's a low risk learning opportunity. Yeah. Well, I mean, there, there is this sense of like, a sense of ick, you know, my I kept a warning one of my children to prepare for a test that was happening. And She thought she did it enough and she didn't.
00:24:47
Speaker
And her grade wasn't what she wanted it to be. And I said, okay, well, this is a learning. Like, I'm not mad. This is your get out of jail free card. This one time I'm not mad. But next time I try to, you know, show you how you study for something, I'm modeling it for you.
00:25:04
Speaker
You got, you got to do the rest because I can't take your test for you. Right. Right. What are some ways, Callie, you have littles, so you're a little bit more in the trenches as far as like active engagement. What are ways with your little guys are you beginning to build and teach and model independence for them?
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, some of it sort of like you said – Charlotte, I think some of it is like just my teacher brain clicks in a little bit, which I'm sure helps, but also just having four kids so close together, like you said, like I can't do everything at once. And so that sort of forces their hand to have to figure it out.
00:25:42
Speaker
But I feel like a big thing that I have found with at my kids age is ah lots of times when it comes to independence, there's a lot of work for me in on the onset of it. And then I get the benefit sort of later. So like an example would be like, I got to sit there for 20 minutes while my child like painstakingly as putting peanut butter on his toast.
00:26:02
Speaker
But then by the time he's four, like that child can make his own toast. So I feel like a lot of it is that, and it's, it's a hard balance because like, sometimes I just need to put the peanut butter on the toast cause we got to go. But I tried to find as many instances where like, if I can give ourselves extra time to get out the door so that child can spend 30 minutes struggling with their shoes by the time they're, you know, enough, they can put it on their own shoes.
00:26:24
Speaker
So that's how I'm always thinking about it. Now I'm always thinking about like, what, You know, what kind time can I put in now to let them sort of learn how to do this thing by themselves so that when they're a little older, they can do it and then it'll be great.
00:26:39
Speaker
And then another one that you brought up that I'm always thinking about is the natural consequences. So I mean, I think about this with everything when it comes to just like basic discipline with my children. Like if they do something wrong, I'm not just gonna say, okay, well, you don't get to watch a movie tomorrow because those are those things aren't connected. Like whenever I'm doing something, I'm always like, what is a natural consequence to this?
00:27:01
Speaker
But I think about it with stuff like that, too. i have a child who is horrible about putting their shoes back in their locker and they have this one pair of shoes. It's their favorite pair in the morning when they can't find them. Like I might know where they are. I'm not going to go find them for that child.
00:27:14
Speaker
I'm not going to put them in the locker for the child. Like that's a natural consequence that you didn't put them. So I'm always thinking about those two. And sort of like you said, obviously, there are a lot that are, you know, minimal. They're not going make the child sick or they're going to be But maybe you go to school and you're cold that day because you forgot your jacket. Or my first grader, the other day he comes home, he's like, mom, you forgot my water bottle. I'm like, that's your water bottle. I'm like, I didn't forget your water bottle.
00:27:40
Speaker
That's your water bottle. And now he hasn't forgotten his water bottle since. So stuff like that. I feel like a lot of it is, it's a lot of effort in the in the front. It's easier for us to just do it, especially when they're a little, even when they're older, I'm sure. It's just easier for us to just do it than to ask them to do it or to follow up with them to do it or to sit there while they do it wrong.
00:27:57
Speaker
But I feel like the benefits are worth it. and i i lost it on – my youngest is now 10. And he had flag football practice right after school. And so he was going home with a friend who was then going to take him to flag.
00:28:12
Speaker
So before school, I said, do you have everything you need for flag? He said, yes. And then I get a text after school that he's left his cleats behind. And so they're like, so we'll just swing by and grab them.
00:28:23
Speaker
And so when he got into the car after practice, I said – What, like what happened, you know, what about the cleats, buddy? And he was like, well, you didn't tell me to get them. And I was like, we're not doing this.
00:28:35
Speaker
And he was like, you told me to get my jersey and in my helmet. I said, no, no, no. I told you to get the flag gear. Do not be, and I said, I was like, that is insulting to me to blame me. Like, you know full well what you need to go and play flag. Like, don't even do this.
00:28:51
Speaker
Like he was trying real hard. I also think, and then I want to hear from you, Megan, I think that there's so many other things that are linked to independence. So I used to tell the parents of my kids, because I taught first grade, and that's a prime year for like, oh, let me help with your math homework or let me help. And I was like, when you When you get in the way and do things for them, you are robbing them of the pride and satisfaction of struggling to get something done and doing it anyway. Or you you know maybe they don't finish it and then they have like that hard experience. you're just You're taking away that opportunity for them to learn and grow from it. And I think they said it in the search results that like it's linked to self-esteem. So if your kid has spent 20 minutes making a peanut butter sandwich,
00:29:43
Speaker
when they're four, what they have learned is like, I can do hard things. This was tricky. I did it. And so then when they're six, that's going to be something different. And then the goal is obviously when they're 17, 18, 19, 20, and something hard or challenging, they trust themselves. They know they can handle it to say, I'm not going to you know, for me, it's always like, I'm not going to get in the car with the person who's been driving. truck Like you go to these big things that are so much more important than whether or not they can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
00:30:15
Speaker
So I do think that it's linked to self-esteem. I think it's linked to like problem solving. And again, every time parents swoop in and do something for their kids, they've taken away that like, oh, I wonder what happens if I put the bread on the wrong side of the, yeah whatever.
00:30:34
Speaker
Or even, i always think about it, especially with my little ones, like I think about perseverance. Like that's, yes i mean, you know what I mean? For me to take away that, that chance for them to like persevere through something. Like if I think about what I want my children to be when they get older, i mean, independent, definitely. But like,
00:30:49
Speaker
Somebody who can persevere is definitely very high in the list. 100%. Who am I to rob them of that? hundred um and 100%. I know Megan has to talk, but I just found – I've been sitting here thinking, like, but my middle child's been coming home and telling me they're their whole – mission this year in her school is called ROOTS, R-O-O-T-S. And it's to help students grow roots at home.
00:31:14
Speaker
And the R stands for responsibility, helping your child take charge of routines and responsibilities. Ownership. Ownership, openness, ah making space for honest conversations. Yes. Tenacity.
00:31:27
Speaker
Nope.
00:31:29
Speaker
Thrive time, spending intentional time together as a family and support, staying connected. So- They're like, we need a team. I have notes for thrive time, but I love the principle. Yeah. And so the first month for September, their goal was you had to make lunch for yourself, pack your lunch every day. love that. and And it was third through fifth grade.
00:31:53
Speaker
And I remember a parent, I saw somewhere being like, my third grader packed their own lunch? And I kept thinking- Eileen's been packing her own lunch since she was like in kindergarten. She loves packing her own lunch. But if your child has never done that for themselves, here's your chance.
00:32:07
Speaker
Model it, show them how it's done, and then let them take it over. So I just thought that was really cool. Roots. I like that. Growing roots. Megan, your kids are older, aligned with mine. So what does independence look like for you or has it looked like in the past?
00:32:23
Speaker
So I will admit I'm not good at this. Okay. i wish I could let go as simple as it starts first thing in the morning here in our house. I ask children to make their beds, to put stuff in the laundry. I repeat things all the time.
00:32:40
Speaker
I don't mean to be a nag, but it's, you know, simple things like the water bottle, the lunch.
Balancing Support and Independence
00:32:45
Speaker
It gets put here on the table. All you have to do is put it in your book bag, right? I feel like i remind and remind and remind and...
00:32:57
Speaker
I have one that forgets a lot. So I try to be patient. Same thing. Like with the other day, we, ah one of my children, I'm not going to say who they're old enough to get themselves ready for a sporting event.
00:33:11
Speaker
They had the wrong Jersey on. And you know, I just was there with my mom and I'm like, ma they're old enough. Like I'm not sit going in the closet and putting out the Jersey on the closet door. Like no way, no how.
00:33:26
Speaker
So I just, after the game, I was like, you know, you need to be responsible for that. There's no reason, like the coach didn't say anything. And she was like, oh, I said, but it was like, you're right.
00:33:40
Speaker
I, you know, took full responsibility, but it's just, you know, patiently reminding. And I am going to try what Caitlin said about packing their own lunch with my youngest. My other two do the hot lunch.
00:33:54
Speaker
And you know, where we live here, everyone can walk in town. They can walk to ballet. They can walk a lot. So I feel like that somewhat creates independence with doing things. But also then it's like, I don't want to walk home from school. i Can you pick me up? Like, I don't feel like walking. And it's like, no, you can walk from where you need to go to your activity.
00:34:17
Speaker
And again, at night, I remind like Charlotte, hey, so you have dance. Do you have your stuff packed? Which would be the leotard tights, shoes. Yeah. And of course, I always get text messages. Hey, I forgot this. Hey, I forgot that. So I just feel like for me, because I'm a helicopter mom, I'm going to keep trying to pull back, but um create that independence. It's hard, but I just feel like there's always someone that forgets something in my house. Like, you know? The forgetting thing is, you know, everybody forgets stuff. I forget stuff all the time. It's more of taking ownership over whatever you're supposed to be doing, you know?
00:34:57
Speaker
If you're forgetting your homework at home every single day when you're going to school, I think in my teacher head, I'd say, well, what do you need to do to change that so you can remember it?
00:35:08
Speaker
Your mom and dad don't need to tell you to keep bringing it every day. What can you do you know Take ownership of your actions. And that's I want my children to grow up and do that instead of, I think there's a lot of adults who instantly look around to see who they're going to blame for certain things in certain situations.
00:35:25
Speaker
Maybe because when they were younger, they weren't ever taught. Maybe it's your fault. It's your problem. I agree. company Yeah. No. And with the homework too, and I loved, I forget who brought it up. Maybe it was Callie, the teacher.
00:35:38
Speaker
With Nico, I've learned now because he's my third, that the homework comes home. I step away. If he needs my help, I'm here, but I don't do it for him or with him.
00:35:49
Speaker
But if he needs me, I'm here. And then I usually like check it at the end. So I feel like I've pulled back where Ava, I probably did it for her, you know? So I feel like it's kind of trickled down and yeah. And it's funny too, because the independents, if they want to do something, oh, they will do it.
00:36:06
Speaker
It's like we, this ice maker, hate to bring this stupid thing up again, but one of my kids, it came in the door. Oh, she had it put together, ready to go. Five seconds, but can't clean her room, can't make her bed, can't help with the laundry, you know?
00:36:21
Speaker
and i And I'm looking at this thing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't even know if I could have put this thing together. looks kind of hard, but she figured it out. So it's like when they want to do it, they will do it. And forgetting things is tricky too because, so if they forget something, do you ultimately bring it to them?
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah. Uh-huh. I'm a sucker. Yep. Okay. So then we all know the answer there is that they need, there's no consequence for them because mom is going to do it. yeah But if you were ever to like like, I don't know, come join us for drinks or a Taylor Swift dance party or something, like yeah if they weren't getting these things, either the consequence would be like, I can't do dance that day. And that, for me, that feels like a safe consequence.
00:37:03
Speaker
Or like for some kids, they really, their processing is such that they just, they do need some help. And then to your point, Caitlin, are we creating... Like when my kids were going off to school during COVID, there were so many things that they had to, like they were not allowed in the building without a mat, all the things. And so we had to post like a sheet that they could ah physically look at.
00:37:26
Speaker
And, you know, when my kids were even little, maybe it was like a little thing that you would laminate and clip to the backpack that was like, do I have, I don't know, for dance, it would be like, leot and they would just get in the habit of quickly checking on that list.
00:37:38
Speaker
So it is tricky with forgetting. Like if you're bringing it to them, then then there's no consequence. in that yeah But I think for me, like tips that I would, like things that I feel like I've done that have been successful.
00:37:52
Speaker
And again, a lot of it, when you have 18 kids in a classroom, you just have a chance to practice in a much different way than you do when you only have two or three kids at home. But there really isn't a moment when I'm not thinking about like, is that something my kid could do alone?
00:38:07
Speaker
Whether it's, you know, making the sandwich or cleaning their room or making their bed. So I definitely have gotten my muscles are such that the first thought is, do they need me or can they do it?
00:38:20
Speaker
And then when they were little, it was also finding ways to create opportunities for them to be independent. Like, will you go check the mailbox and see if the mail is there? Will you go put this in the mailbox? Will you go water the plants?
00:38:34
Speaker
You know, it was thinking of things that there's no negative consequence if they screw it up. And then when they come back, it's like, oh my God, that was so great that you walked it all the way to the mailbox or I think we did talk about this in an episode, the mom who asked her kid to go into the store and buy something. Like that's a perfect example of creating a way for your kid to successfully model and practice independence. Cause there's no, like, they're not going to fail.
00:38:59
Speaker
They're going to be great. And then, yeah you know, that becomes like, it just is this self-fulfilling or self like it. What's the word? it Like it was reassuring at re whatever.
00:39:10
Speaker
And it's fun for them. And then they want to do it again. Yes, exactly. What I think about a little, like when, Megan, when you were talking about the forgetting, i do think that sort of ah an interesting piece here with some of this stuff is sometimes when your child forgets something, i think sometimes like we think it's going to reflect poorly on us as a parent.
00:39:29
Speaker
yeah Right. Like when Miles didn't have his water bottle, like, oh, oh, you know, Miles's mom didn't have the water bottle or somebody forgot a lunchbox. So there is that that piece of it, too, where I think as parents, we worry how it's going to reflect on us.
00:39:42
Speaker
Or even at the very beginning, you were talking about risky behavior. When I go to a playground with my children, my children, I feel like. sometimes like a neglectful parent because there are parents they're hovering over their children on things that I am letting Tate just go for because that's what I believe that they should be able to do like I believe that he should be able to if he can get up there by himself like I believe that he should be able to and so sometimes it's like you kind of have to step back and know like I know that some of these parents are probably like that mom's not
00:40:12
Speaker
not helping her child. They're not, which she's not watching them and, you know, and stuff like that. Or like, you know, um Miles's mom couldn't pack the water bottle. So I think sometimes we have to kind of like step back from it too, because we worry that these actions of our children are reflecting on our,
00:40:27
Speaker
like a bill or reflection and a mother or whatever so sometimes yeah you kind of have to be willing to take the to take it and be like oh yep nope the brantz forts didn't have the water bottles today or you know i mean my i' i can't tell you how many times i've sent my daughter to preschool and pants backwards and now her you know her teacher gets it i'm like she dresses herself you know what mean like she we have been trying to get this child to put her own pants on for two years and if she puts them on backwards oh, well, they're backwards. Like she did it herself.
00:40:56
Speaker
And it's, you know, it is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Letting kids get dressed and pick, like for me, that was the first thing that was, and it, there's nothing funnier than kids. out And PS, if you're a preschool teacher and a kid has their pants on backwards,
00:41:12
Speaker
There's not a single preschool teacher on the planet that is like, oh my God, Callie doesn't even know what she's doing over there. But know how many times I've had grandmothers stop me in grocery stores to say, your child has their shoes on the wrong feet.
00:41:25
Speaker
And I just say, you have to put on their own shoes. I was just going to say that Gianna did that for like two years straight. And that all the photos, it's like, you see it? And I just laugh because it's like, she did it. And I just left it because like, it's It was great. uncomfortable, whatever. You did great.
00:41:41
Speaker
Arbor prefers her Crocs on the opposite feet and people are still correcting her. And I'm like, she actually knows where they go. wore the other a 24-month-old dress to school Oh, right up. Insisted that I would button it in the back. There were three buttons. I could only get one. And I couldn't tie the ribbon around the waist. Nothing. that's that She looked like Chris Farley, like a fat guy in a coat. That's so funny. And I 100% looked at the preschool teacher when I dropped her off and I was like,
00:42:12
Speaker
I know that's too small, but she doesn't care. And she's like, don't judge me about it. yeah yeah I said, don't even try to button it. Just let her breathe. Do you guys follow Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx on social media?
00:42:25
Speaker
No. She was at, no, well, she was in an event and her newest product are these sneaker shoes. They're called like sneaks or snooks or whatever. And she packed for the event and she,
00:42:39
Speaker
she packed two of the same foot so that the shoes looked the same, but she must've had two pairs. And so she was like, what do I do? What do I do? And so she put the two left feet on. She was like, be honest, like, can you tell? And it was like, it looked whack, but it made me laugh because the number of times we've seen kids in the grocery store, it makes me, my heart smiles so big when I see kids look crazy like that.
00:43:04
Speaker
Just let them live. Let them live. Do you guys have any other sort of hot tips? I feel like we've sort of alluded and mentioned a bunch. I mean, I think just it's like training yourself to back off is the biggest tip. i yeah And I love what Callie said because I'm guilty of this thinking this is reflecting so poorly on me that but it probably is not.
00:43:26
Speaker
No. You know. so And though though the one person that maybe it is, like, not a judgment you need to worry about. Yeah. That person's like, Caitlin doesn't know how to put Arbor's shoes on the right feet, you know.
00:43:39
Speaker
Janice can suck it. yeah And they eventually figure it out. Like, same with Nico. I think we talked about this, Charlotte. with He still doesn't really know how to tie his shoes. Yeah, and I have one of those. Yeah. And I'm just like, I try. bought the Melissa and Doug trainer thing. I've tried to sit. His sisters have tried. Eventually, he'll figure it out. And again, it's like, I show him. I show him. But it's like, buddy, you got to want it too.
00:44:04
Speaker
just got to do it. That's true. Um, okay. Let's move into peaks and pits. So I don't know what i'm to do I have to think on it. Do you know what you're going say, Callie?
00:44:15
Speaker
Yes, I have a peak. So we have dropped Opal to one nap, which means now Tate and Opal nap at the same time. This very big thing because for my entire summer and the spring, Opal would nap. Opal would wake up. Tate would immediately nap.
00:44:33
Speaker
Tate would wake up. oh fold him And I mean, you are just nap trapped. You are just. Yes. And now they're napping at the same time. And it's the most glorious thing that has ever happened in my life.
00:44:44
Speaker
I'm so happy for you. Thank you. Yeah. I love this. ah Megan, do you have a pit or a peak? I have a pit. So our playroom has not been like deep cleaned in a good two and a half, maybe three years. And it's like a bomb went off up there because we're at the in-between stage where...
Managing Family Life and Career
00:45:06
Speaker
my teenagers don't play anymore. My son kindness plays. So it's just like, do we make it into an extra bedroom? Do we make it into a hangout? But mom is also hanging on to the dress up bin because I'm not ready to get rid of it, but no one uses the dress up bin. So, I mean, it is just a shit show. Like there's stuff all over the place and we're renovating it finally.
00:45:28
Speaker
ah So it's just like going up there. It's just, it smells. It's, there's leftover snacks. You step on stuff. You hurt your feet. i mean, it's just a disaster and it's so not like me to have it. And like the other day, Joe was like, so have you been upstairs? And I'm like, just don't even talk to me about it. Okay. Like you go clean it then, you know?
00:45:50
Speaker
So that's my pit. I'll eventually get around to it because we have to finally renovate up there, but whatever. It's your monocle closet. Yeah. If someone else clean it, why is it on me to clean it? you know Does anyone else want to help me do it?
00:46:01
Speaker
No. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Yeah. Not at all. Caitlin, what is your – do you pit or peak? I don't know. I was sitting here thinking. I kind of – it's a pit. I'm you know so excited that – I worked really hard to build up a little mini photography business and I worked for a bajillion years to build up a blog business. And then I just got a new job and stuff, stuff, good stuff's like happening in all three of those little areas, but there's no time in the day and in my life to do it all.
00:46:34
Speaker
And I refuse to give any of it up. So I call it a pit because I'm just like, be happy that you have all these things, but at the same time, i can't, I can't do it all.
00:46:44
Speaker
So, yeah, that's just, it's not a real pit.
Home Organization Challenges
00:46:48
Speaker
It's just kind of like, I need some life. yeah a like Yeah. Yeah. There's not enough time in the day. yeah No, no.
00:46:56
Speaker
I have pit too, But like I'm going to survive. It's not a big time pit. This house is pretty well unpacked and moved into with the exception of like the basement and the attic where we've just like put the deep storage stuff that who knows.
00:47:13
Speaker
One of the categories of things that we have not unpacked And I have no idea where they're going to go or what I'm going to do with them are like winter gear. And like in my mind, I'm like, oh, it's just a few things.
00:47:27
Speaker
I think I found like four boxes at this point between the five kids. It's like. Boots, hats, gloves. Like I just – I think there's a lot of it. And we have like a cute little back entryway with like a little closet and like a couple hooks.
00:47:45
Speaker
And then like we have all these little like cute spaces. But in the old house, we had like a basement room where I could put like shelves and bins. I have no idea what I'm going to do with this stuff. And every day we wake up and it's like – Mom, it's 39 degrees out.
00:48:01
Speaker
I'm like, none of you are going to have access to hats or gloves or scarves because I don't know where you're gonna i don't know where they're going to So that's my latest conundrum. That's a fight in my for my life all of the time because we've never had a house that has like an entryway or a mudroom or any of that.
00:48:19
Speaker
It's such a – I keep like snow gear in the basement. Sure. So it only comes out when it snows. And then that way I can just – the winter jacket, hats, and scarves, I can find places for those because they need those every day.
00:48:33
Speaker
And then the because the bulky snow – like they don't need their boots unless they snow. that's right. So that's just – I can't – it can't be prime real estate. Remember when talked about prime real estate? Not prime real estate. Yeah. You just – I totally forgot that's about to happen.
00:48:46
Speaker
I know. Yeah. Every year it catches me off guard. Yeah. I got one little – it's like there's shelves, like cube shelves that hang, and so you can still use the floor.
00:48:58
Speaker
yeah And there's – I think there's five little compartments, and so in mind I was like, oh, that'll be great. But then I keep finding these boxes that are labeled like winter gear, and I'm like – I think I'm underestimating. Like I don't think each kid can fill one little cubby.
00:49:13
Speaker
Yeah. Does your basement, like, would you, like for us, we struggle with our basement, like has that basement smell because it's not refinished. So we like jam all the winter coats up in Nico's closet because he doesn't have a lot of clothes. So could you put some of that stuff in the basement in like a locker? You know how like Callie used to have those lockers?
Everyday Household Conveniences
00:49:32
Speaker
So I think we have room for like the coats. It's the gear and the basement is not really convenient. So like you need a place that's like, a little more accessible. It doesn't need to be like right inside the back door.
00:49:45
Speaker
And so it may just be, there's one closet. I put my coats in one closet and then Mark's in the other, just because I have so many freaking coats. It was just easier that way. um So the closet that has Mark's coats maybe could absorb, but it's, I don't know. It's like,
00:50:01
Speaker
I want future Charlotte to be dealing with it, and yet I know it's going to be like 20 degrees. and And then when the time comes, nobody will be able to find a match to their men's. So like what are we even doing? yeah I know. yeah so that work Or they don't even wear the coats. Do your kids actually wear the coats, Charlotte?
00:50:16
Speaker
Not so much coats, yeah but they definitely will wear hats and gloves and stuff. Okay. use the gear. I know. It's a struggle. So, you know, I'll survive, but that's on my mind. Yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
No. um All right. I'm intrigued by this ice maker because it – is it just always pumping out ice? Yeah. And then they get off the bus and they make another thing and then but before bed and then in the morning it's like different ices. It's like so – I will say my local coffee shop switched to the Little Ice and that is not the right ice for coffee.
00:50:49
Speaker
No. It melts too fast. I have a lot of opinions about it. So I'll going back there for their Little Ice. Yeah. If I had a little ice machine, it would just reactivate my pica days, pica, pica days from when I was pregnant and I would eat ice all day long. Oh, I did that too. Yeah.
00:51:07
Speaker
that a bad thing with the little nugget ice? Because it's bad for your teeth. Really? Even the nugget ice? I feel like it's so soft. I mean, I guess ice is ice. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I believe you.
00:51:18
Speaker
Everything's bad for you. Everything. Everything. Hose water. Definitely hose water.
00:51:26
Speaker
That's a throwback to the previous podcast that is not even accessible on air because why would it be? You guys missed it. DM us if you want to know.
00:51:38
Speaker
Okay. We got to go. As always, thanks you guys and your stripes. Next time, just let me know what the outfit is. You ready? Okay.
00:51:49
Speaker
am Bye. Tundaloo.
00:51:53
Speaker
how i've tried written down the words to say it is time i've been waiting five days to explain you make me feel inside