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Mind the Gap: Real Talk on Sibling Age Differences in Motherhood
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Ever wonder what it's really like to parent kids with big age differences? In Episode 26 of Just 4 Moms, we’re diving into the highs, lows, and hilarious moments that come with sibling age gaps — from 18 months to 8+ years apart. Whether you’ve got a toddler and a teenager, or are starting over after thinking you were done, we’ve been there.
Your hosts Caitlin, Kallie, Charlotte, and Megan share personal stories about their own childhood sibling dynamics and how they’re managing different stages of motherhood under one roof. We talk about how age gaps affect everything from parenting style to family logistics, and what no one prepares you for — including guilt, shifting identities, and surprise blessings.
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Transcript
Snack Struggles at Home
00:00:00
Speaker
What did everyone get as a snack? Nothing. didn't have one because I didn't want my children. That's the one downside of being the kids being home. That's the only thing that's not my older kids a little bit, but like i I can't really go downstairs because if they see me, they accost me and like I can't get out again.
00:00:19
Speaker
So you just have to starve all day or do you keep snacks in your office? I would be smart to bring snacks. That would be a smart, that would be smart, but I don't. I just am hungry all day. And then I like sneak down at three o'clock and eat a million pretzels.
00:00:31
Speaker
We don't have any food because it's a grocery day. So I have to go pick it up until then. No snacks. We need some good summer snacks in our house. I was thinking that last night. and'm like, our snack cabinet's looking pretty weak.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I know we try not to do because my four-year-old and two-year-old can't be trusted with snacks. So we don't, as you know, really do the snack. But for the babysitters, I like to have some – Michael and I are going on a big date tomorrow. He has tomorrow off for Juneteenth.
00:00:58
Speaker
Is it tomorrow or the next? The next day. 19th. For Juneteenth. And we wanted to go do something because we're like, well, we have two we have two babysitters that day. we're like, i don't know. Do you really want to just go out and like spend $150 on lunch that's going to like be mediocre? So our big date is we're going out to Costco.
00:01:14
Speaker
I was just Costco and then we're going get a Costco pizza. And so it's very exciting, but we will end up with some, some good summer snacks. I'm sure. That's awesome.
00:01:25
Speaker
I was thinking that it was time to, cause with everyone home and like lunch, it's just so much. And so I was thinking it might be time for a Costco run, but then it's like, if you give a mouse a cookie or if you give a pig a donut, whatever it is,
00:01:41
Speaker
The overflow place is in our mudroom, which currently has all of Eleanor's stuff from school. It has like three rugs that I didn't want to get rid of. It has like, it just, and I can't, I don't have it in me to address that, but we should be going to Costco too.
00:01:56
Speaker
ah We literally, so we made five rules, summer, are our summer break rules as a family. And one of them specifically just for Finley is you may have,
00:02:07
Speaker
three meals and two snacks a day. And don't ask me how many meltdowns she has already had about this, about how she is so hungry and she's just going to die because she's so hungry. i mean, so dramatic.
00:02:22
Speaker
You tell her to drink a cup of water, but every night, every night crying that she's not hungry. I'm like, then eat your dinner. I don't like, I don't know what else to tell you. We do this every night. So we're working on it. Do you think she's going to win?
00:02:35
Speaker
are you going to win? Oh, I'm going to win. i am the most stubborn person that there is. She can cry all she wants if you didn't eat your dinner too. Tough shit. yeah Eventually you'll figure it out. And it's, I mean, we're getting a little better because sometimes she'll like get up and I'll be like, Finley, remember yesterday when you were so upset? And then she'll come back and eat a little. So like we're making progress.
Nostalgia for Childhood Crushes
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
But she really, she's a board eater. Like when she's bored, she's like, I'm hungry. And I'm, I'm literally trying to teach her. I'm like, you're not really hungry. You're just feeling bored. You know, if you go play something for a little while, you'll be all right.
00:03:06
Speaker
And so we're getting there. I feel this. I feel Yeah. I feel the same as an adult with the snacks. It's Finley. Yeah. ah Yeah. I, I can, I know because she is me. I also board eat.
00:03:18
Speaker
Welcome to Just For Moms. I'm Charlotte. I'm Caitlin. I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner.
00:03:31
Speaker
Again, no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. things ilan the things Well, my friends, we are here and we are back for episode 26. It it is You know, just a lovely day in the neighborhood in New England, I believe for all of us.
00:03:53
Speaker
And we're summertime. We've just been talking about snacks and how our children could eat us out of house and home in two seconds. And I should have probably just said, like, our opening chat going to be about snacks.
00:04:07
Speaker
But I have something more important that I would like to discuss And that is who was your childhood crush? And I don't mean somebody you went to high school with, I mean, elementary school with.
00:04:19
Speaker
Like in a movie, this maybe you had a Teen Beat poster of him on your wall. favorite Favorite actor, singer? I wanna know. Is this like when we were like little or like in high school?
00:04:34
Speaker
I mean, it's whenever you want. I mean, i like okay, I'll start. My first crush that I vividly remember was Mouth in the Goonies, which was...
00:04:48
Speaker
1990 yes but what was his name who was mouth oh is that jerry o'conn it was he's not the one i would choose and he's sort of gone off the rails oh he's nuts well how did i come to this so unprepared was just mouth i'll look it up i'll look it up she's looking yeah look it up but he was my first and then it moved on to devon saw Corey Feldman Corey Feldman yes yes yes okay then i loved devon saw on casper I loved him very much.
00:05:18
Speaker
Then as I got a little older, I liked Seth Green and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. so like, you know, over the years. Yeah. What's interesting is that i i don't remember. Like the the crushes that I remember – We weren't really allowed to watch TV.
00:05:36
Speaker
i mean, we did, but it was just very, very limited. And I'm realizing, so the crushes that I put were like River Phoenix, Ricky Schroeder, and whoever was the guy in Charles in Charge.
00:05:50
Speaker
And I must have been old enough to be babysitting. So these were like that Friday night lineup. But I don't remember. I mean, River Phoenix was movies. But I'm trying to think of movies that I saw as a middle schooler that I identified with. I mean, maybe it was Karate Kid, like Ralph Macchio.
00:06:07
Speaker
don't remember having a crush on him. But it's like now I'm wondering what movies I watched when I was little. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's a rhetorical question, but those are mine.
00:06:20
Speaker
Megan, how about you? I just remember having posters all up my bedroom of Donnie from New Kids on the Block. Sure. Okay. And I was just Googling, what were all those magazines? Oh, Teen, Bobby, YFs.
00:06:37
Speaker
Tiger Beat. Yes. I was just like trying to 17 YM. 17 was my jam. And I remember going to the grocery. I would only go to the grocery store with my mom just because I wanted to get like the new issue that was out.
00:06:51
Speaker
But I just remember having um way too many posters up of him. I don't know why i found him cute because I don't really think he's that cute now. And then it switched over to Derek Jeter. Yeah.
00:07:05
Speaker
And never left. And I'm still Mrs. Megan Jeter. I mean, he's just, he just doesn't know it yet. And I walk around, i have shirts that say Mrs. Derek Jeter on them.
00:07:16
Speaker
And then when I was pregnant with Eva, I had one that said Derek was here and it pointed to my bum.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I went to the game and I remember Joe kind of being like, you're really going to wear that? And I'm like, you know me, of course I am. Yeah. Wow. I didn't realize that. I thought always thought that you just talked about him being your crush. Just like, I don't know. I didn't know it was that intense.
00:07:41
Speaker
No. And one time i remember I posted a reel and he wrote like LOL to it. I feel like it was when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame and I was like, um it was like going to see my husband.
00:08:00
Speaker
You remember that that oh that audio, right? And I was like shaking and pointing it at him and I tagged him in it. And like, I don't know if it was him, but someone replied, LOL. So. I own his account.
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah. may Yeah. Oh, I've tagged him multiple times. Oh, yeah. Wow. um Stalker, but yeah. I know. Meg's like, this one time I mailed him my hair.
00:08:24
Speaker
And then I got a letter in the mail that said I wasn't allowed to talk to him anymore. I'm actually not allowed in... to sit i know right well like cal but callie did you have a ah crush when you were a pre-teen or oh yeah i mean i feel like um i feel like whatever kids were like on disney like i'm trying to think i feel like well i feel like i went from like jtt to jt yeah so jonathan taylor oh yeah yes and timberlake I feel like that was a whatever. Yeah. I feel like Aaron Carter, wasn't he like doing those all those Hilary Duff movies and they like sang songs together? That's right. I don't Like now looking back, I'm like, did I have a crush on him or was it just like he was like the boy that – I don't really remember. But I remember him as being –
00:09:08
Speaker
one of the boys and he was on the cover of all of those magazines for sure yeah i mean all the boy bands fox was a little bit like that for me maybe michael j fax fox michael j fax and um jason bateman they were sort of the boys and a bunch of those shows yeah yeah i remember freddie pence jr being one yeah my yeah and he's pleasure and he's leisure yeah yeah I remember all my friends were into Brad Pitt, but I was like, he's too old for us.
00:09:37
Speaker
yeah I didn't, he didn't, no. No. Didn't do it for you. Not me. No. I mean, listen guys, I liked Seth Green. He was just like really awkward looking ginger. and my cousins all told me I liked him because he had red hair like I did. And that I liked Devin Sawa because he had pale skin and Casper like I did.
00:09:57
Speaker
And I'm like, you guys are so mean to me. Yeah. Clearly they didn't. I mean, i I was also a little bit obsessed with Hanson for a while.
00:10:07
Speaker
Oh, yes. Sure. Yes. They were cuties. Still kind of are. Yeah, they are. Yeah. yeah Actually, no. Who is it that doesn't look that good?
00:10:18
Speaker
I think it's Zach doesn't look as good as the other. can't all be good. But then did you did you all see how a bunch of the tabloid celebrity magazines recently closed? Like,
00:10:31
Speaker
you um I think Us Weekly and In Touch are done. Oh. Yeah. Because nobody's picking the magazine anymore. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I saw a post about that a few weeks ago, and I was like, wow. I mean, it makes sense.
Parenting Challenges and Sibling Dynamics
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and now that there's social media, the paparazzi don't have quite the same power either. Yeah. Well, okay. We can leave our youth and go into our present-day mom fails.
00:10:58
Speaker
Does anybody have anything good? I mean, mine's not amazing, but we had a we had a bunch of people over the other day. And so I got some soda and some seltzer and some Gatorade.
00:11:12
Speaker
And there was a lot left over. And I made the mistake of just kind of leaving it there. And it's, of course, the kids have just glommed and finished it all. So I should have just put it away and saved it for the next party.
00:11:25
Speaker
But they've just mainlined it all. And that's just gone, which is- That's one of my biggest pet peeves. Somebody finds my stash of something that I'm saving. Yeah. And you only know, they're certainly not asking. You only know because you'll go out to the driveway and there's like a lone can of whatever, like under the basketball net. And then you'll go to the basement and there's,
00:11:45
Speaker
Like a lone can next to the you know Xbox controller. and I'm sure it's the same kid, but it's annoying. Callie, how about you? Yeah, so my four-year-old has these, think they're called nanobugs.
00:11:58
Speaker
They're called hexbox. I don't know. they're these little They look like tiny little bugs, and you turn them on, they vibrate. And you we make mazes with our magnet tiles. I think they have kits, but we just use magnet And she loves them.
00:12:09
Speaker
But eventually, they just like die, and I have not figured out how to replace them. and Once a year, we buy a few more. We were cleaning out the basement and she found one. She's like, I really want to play with, she calls them the Beatles. I really want to play with my Beatles. And I was like, okay, well, I'm finishing in the basement. I'll play with you later.
00:12:25
Speaker
and then later, it was Father's Day too. And then later I was helping my son ride his bike and but the day just got away from us. And then at bedtime, she was she realized that I had it. And she had asked me multiple times and my mom was visiting and I guess she had asked my mom a few times and we both didn't know that we both kind of had been blowing her off.
00:12:44
Speaker
And right before bed, she like remembered that we hadn't done the beetle. And I felt so bad because I did. I totally blowed her blew her off about it and like kept just being like, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. So it's fine. We fixed it. We ended up but the the the lone one she found had like barely any battery. And I was like, what if we buy a new set for the year? Because, you know, we usually buy so all as well in the world. But I felt a lot of mom guilt about that.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. That sucks. Yeah. Megan, how about you? I signed up my kids for a camp next week and I'm so late. So I got a late fee for both of them with the sign up.
00:13:23
Speaker
It's just annoying. I like knew to sign it up. I knew there was a late fee. It's just another way for them to make money, but it's just annoying. So that's my mom fails paying the late camp fee enrollment, whatever.
00:13:37
Speaker
i can't think of anything cause I can't at all. That's her mom fail. That's my mom fail. Oh no, here we go. i got, I got one. This is, this is going to be, if I don't find this, I'm going to just spontaneously combust.
00:13:53
Speaker
So Annabelle, my oldest has grown out of everything. She's basically like has to come borrow my clothes because just nothing fits. She's just so tall. And I was being so proactive, bought her a bathing suit for her fifth grade outing in time for that. She got it and then found a two piece bathing suit that I believed was modest enough that she could wear.
00:14:18
Speaker
That was great. Found a second top to go with those bottoms. Well, these bottoms are gone. They are sucked into the black hole of my house. I cannot find them anywhere.
00:14:30
Speaker
We need them for a vacation because the poor thing is like nothing that fits her. And It's my fault because I probably put them somewhere safe. I love when I do that. Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
They'll turn up. Yeah. turn up eventually. September. Yeah. fine Right. When we don't need them anymore. So yeah, that's I'm on feel. But ah this is, okay. i can I love a good segue.
00:14:56
Speaker
This is going a segue into our topic today, which is about age gaps between our children. So My oldest it has no one to borrow clothes from except for her mother, where my middle child and my youngest, if we need something, a pair of shoes, anything, because I save everything.
00:15:15
Speaker
I could always go find it. that's That's an issue when you have kids that are really far apart, right? up So today we're going to talk about sibling age gaps. And this is a topic that we did on our old show.
00:15:28
Speaker
And a lot of people can relate because if you don't have any children and you're planning having children, you kind of think about, well, how far apart do I want them to be? And I was researching, I was like, I bet there's some statistics over this. And actually,
00:15:43
Speaker
Google says two year spacing between kids is the most normal, common, this is what we're gonna do when we have them. And then you could get really technical and break it down by months that a lot of couples look at.
00:15:57
Speaker
But what I found that was very interesting is research on hunter gatherer societies suggests that the natural interbirth interval is actually about four years.
00:16:10
Speaker
They say, since all humans lived as hunter gatherers for 95% of our evolutionary history, it's reasonable to assume that this was the case for all humans. A key question is why did our ancestors have children much farther apart, four years apart? And it's largely came down to breastfeeding, diet and lifestyle.
00:16:27
Speaker
So a traditional society's mothers breastfed on demand for about three years, which na naturally suppressed their ovulation. so then they couldn't get pregnant until they were done with that. And then they had kids.
00:16:39
Speaker
So I thought that was really interesting because to me, four years is kind of, it's a pretty significant gap. And that was more normal than yeah for years than it is now.
00:16:52
Speaker
I also wonder if it was like they were starting earlier. Like, do you ever feel like a lot of us, if we start in our thirties and we want two or three, like we might want them closer so that we can have them before a certain age.
00:17:04
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. Well, I, if you Google this though, it's, it's, Everybody says it's a little less than two years to 30 something months is the most common.
00:17:16
Speaker
But I thought, you know, it would be cool for us to go around, talk about the age gaps between our children and then just maybe some of the dynamics and all that jazz. If someone wants to start.
00:17:28
Speaker
My age gaps. So between my first and my second is just over two years. So two years, three months. Between my second and my third two. two years, three months. And then the third and fourth was like, it was less than a year and a half. I think it was 16 or 17 months.
00:17:44
Speaker
um So fairly similar age gaps. I mean, obviously I did the two under two with the last ones. um And we...
00:17:55
Speaker
I mean, we kind of planned for them to be close. We wanted initially like the first two to be even closer, um but it just took longer to get pregnant between them than we thought.
00:18:06
Speaker
So I don't really know. I mean, I don't know anything different. I don't know the really wide age gaps. And we are like, we're just starting to enter the stage where my third, like, I feel like in the last six months, my third has sort of entered the chat in the sense, as far as like the real sibling dynamics and the sense that sometimes number one and three will play or two and three will play. And so that has definitely changed the dynamics of how everyone plays mostly in a good way so far in the sense that like,
00:18:38
Speaker
Now my six year old and four year old who were like because they were two years apart They were just peas in a pod best buds of course they bickered and they they do that as siblings do But they were close enough that they could play all the same games and they really enjoyed being together um But now I'm finding that my six-year-old has sort of aged out of some of the stuff that my four-year-old has and so it's been really nice that she has somebody that she can kind of fall back onto to do some of that kind of younger play with which has been really nice So yeah, I don't really know where I was going. Are we just talking about it? No, that was exactly what I asked you, your age gaps, and you said what the the the dynamic is like.
00:19:15
Speaker
yeah Charlotte, now you have the most children, but I feel like your – ahead and describe your children's – your age gaps. are My kids are all about 16, 17, 18 months apart. I mean, for most of them, i was nine months postpartum and that was about when I stopped breastfeeding. i A lot of them had breast milk through a year because I just had like such a stash.
00:19:43
Speaker
But for me, that you know I was pumping in the back quarters of a public school in New York City and For many, many reasons. Once they started eating and cruising around, we just stopped. And so, you know, that was certainly ah big part of it, not breastfeeding. But I also, we started having kids when I was older. I mean, I think I had my first when I was maybe 34 or so. And so we sort of knew that if we wanted to have more, it was sort of like TikTok. And we, you know, thankfully we didn't have trouble getting
00:20:16
Speaker
pregnant, which is why they are close together. But I also was really lucky with my actual pregnancy because I think it's sort of twofold. I mean, I think it's you're getting pregnant again because of how postpartum is gone and how you're feeling about life. And i don't know.
00:20:36
Speaker
i mean, I'm sure people do plan to have children three years apart for whatever reason, but Like you're not going to, you sort of have to listen to your body and see what the reality is.
00:20:49
Speaker
And so, you know, for us, because I had had sort of easy pregnancies and pretty quick labors, I didn't have any like trauma associated with any of this. So it was easy enough to jump right back into pregnancy.
00:21:01
Speaker
So I think at one point I may have had five under five. I can't do the math. It was pretty close to that, but because they were so close, it just, They were just this little pack.
00:21:12
Speaker
They weren't wildly, you know, the oldest, there was a point when she sort of would graduate from doing some of the really little play. But it was to your point, Callie, everyone has always been able to find someone who's interested in what they want to do.
00:21:27
Speaker
i have found that the dynamics with our kids are much more shaped bye now, at least certainly with gender and interests. When they were little, they would just kind of do their own thing and they would pick up a pal and and do whatever. And they're, they all get along pretty well.
00:21:46
Speaker
None of them are obsessed with each other or like choose to hang out socially, but they're all very happy to be together. And I was, I was talking to my mom about this the other day.
00:21:57
Speaker
I don't remember knock on wood anytime when my kids were just red face screaming at each other. And I have very visceral memories of me like engaging with my siblings in that way.
00:22:09
Speaker
Just so mad. And we definitely fought a lot. My siblings and I are three years apart. So maybe there's just something to that gap. but Maybe it was how we were parented. you know so statistics do so actually, what I was reading is that when children are closer to together, there was less fighting in a recent study.
00:22:32
Speaker
Huh? I mean, I guess it makes sense. there's Yeah. You're closer to being a peer. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, like the bickering we get with our kids, it's all like, you know, like playground bickering, you know, it's none of it. And again, my kids are young. Other things are going to enter the sphere, as you know, as they get into adolescence.
00:22:51
Speaker
But it's all just, you know, stuff that would happen at school with like a schoolmate kind of bickering. and Yeah. Well, and so Megan, your are three children, what are their age gaps and what's their dynamic?
00:23:04
Speaker
So we had the two girls and they were two and a half years apart. Exactly. Both on the 18th, one May, one October. And I felt like for me with both pregnancies, like it wasn't, I wasn't able to plan anything. Like I remember having friends that were like, I'm going to get pregnant. I'm going to, my baby's going to be born in May so I could have the summer. And they just did it.
00:23:29
Speaker
And I was like, that's what I'm like. That's awesome. That never happened with me. I felt like all my pregnancies took a lot longer to get pregnant than I had thought, you know, nine months, six months, you know, over a year. And it was, so I was just grateful to be pregnant whenever I got pregnant. And yeah, you had, i had the two girls and We thought, well, my husband thought we were done. He was like, I only want to have two. Everything's so expensive.
00:23:59
Speaker
No, like he's the finance person. And then Gianna turned two and I was like, I thought I was done. And I was like, I i want one more. And he was like, no. And I'm like, no, i I want one more. And he's like, well, we have to wait a whole year.
00:24:14
Speaker
we're Like financially, I'm not im out ready to have another kid. So then Gianna turned three and then, you know, I was ready to have another one and it was an agreement.
00:24:26
Speaker
Joe jokes it's like, you trapped me. I'm like, ah you knew what was going on, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. And then I had Nico and the age gap between Nico and my, so Nico's my youngest and Ava's my oldest. Presently right now is seven years.
00:24:46
Speaker
And I feel like they get along great and they help each other. She's like, you know, a little mother when I'm not around. She helped with diapers during that stage.
00:24:57
Speaker
Now she can babysit him. But the sisters, the two and a half year age gap, They were buddies when they were younger, but over the past two, three years, they definitely butt heads.
00:25:09
Speaker
Makeup, clothes. I've heard, I never had a sister, that they will grow out of this, fingers crossed. I do teach them and say to them, and I don't really care, you know, that's your sister, you love her, tell you love her, and they just look at me and they're not saying it, but I'm just going to keep saying it.
00:25:27
Speaker
And when they bicker and, ah yeah like, last night they were fighting over – An eyelash curler. That's kind of where we're at. And this middle school, high school years with the girls, I know Charlotte has that in her house. It sounds like they get along great. But right now, they're they don't really like each other. But again, I'm like, when there's friends over of Ava's or Gianna's, we can all hang out together. Everyone's fun. And they get along great. I just don't know if my oldest thinks she's too cool for her sister.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah. mean it's just that's kind of where we're yeah it's totally normal i mean i um i have i've mentioned it before i have a an 11 year old and i have an eight year old who's about to be nine so they're two years eight months apart which my sister and i are two years eight months apart and when i realize when i see my two girl older girls how they act with each other It's a lot of how my sister and I acted with each other.
00:26:30
Speaker
And now we're best friends. So I have hope. But we were done with two children. Like just said, okay, that's it. We're happy. They're expensive. But the pandemic had us home watching the kids grow up. And so we wanted to try for a third and it took us a while. We didn't know.
00:26:49
Speaker
i was really sick from COVID and there the doctors thought maybe that something had happened. Like, I had no problem getting pregnant before, but why can't we get pregnant now? So just as I had entered all, started doing all these tests at a fertility clinic, then I got pregnant with my third.
00:27:06
Speaker
And so their age differences are, uh, there's eight years between my oldest and my youngest and five years between my middle and my youngest. And it's a lot.
00:27:17
Speaker
i in ah And it's there are three girls and everyone I've been talking to lately that has, you know, two girls and a boy or or two boys and a girl says it's a lot easier. And I think it's.
00:27:30
Speaker
I mean, there's probably a million different reasons why it's so hard for us, but typical third child who's a girl and looking up to to her two big sisters, she just wants to be like them and bossy like like them.
00:27:42
Speaker
My oldest wants to mother the youngest and my oldest wants to. mother, the middle child, and then the middle child wants to mother everyone. And it's just like a, just a shit show a lot of days, but I will say that I'm happy that we had a third with this age gap because it is very, very helpful to have someone who's older and when I look at like Callie or Charlotte and I imagine what it was like, well, what it is like for you, Callie, and what it was like for you, Charlotte, if that was my, all three of my girls that close in the age, I'm like, maybe they wouldn't, maybe they would have gotten along like their children if they, if we kept them like that, because Annabelle and Eileen really did have a great relationship until we put the third one in the bunch, but, you know, we're also entering preteen years. So who really knows?
00:28:34
Speaker
I know a lot of people ask about age gaps. That's one of the topics people bring up when we say, Hey, what do you guys want to talk about? Because people are trying to plan things out. But as we said, it doesn't always go as planned, you know, and I think that's something important and that your family is just going to end up being whatever your family is going to be.
00:28:54
Speaker
You know, it's not, I mean, I think it's captain obvious that it like there's pros and cons, but you know, i have, Five kids close together means that they're sort of this wonderfully energetic, cohesive pack.
00:29:10
Speaker
They're not quite as disparate as I think your experience is. And there's something to that. It's just, you know, my muscle memory is I never lose it because by the time one is outgrown something, the next one is right there.
00:29:23
Speaker
But... You know, I also look back and I worry that my oldest daughter didn't get a chance to really be a toddler.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I think about her and I'm like, my God, she was three years old with like two younger siblings. And it's ah we've talked about this in a past episode. I certainly was conscious of not giving her parental roles, but I also was aware that a three-year-old, I wanted them to be independent and giving her jobs and projects and letting her be independent. I mean, I think those are life skills.
00:30:04
Speaker
And I'm really happy for that. And part of having a large family, and we've talked about this too, is setting up our home with, like, there has to be this foundation of independence because I just cannot physically do everything, nor do I want to do everything. And so that's sort of the premise on which our big family is built is that, like, you can get yourself dressed.
00:30:25
Speaker
I don't care what you're wearing. Like, go get a snack. I've selected what you can eat. Go get it. There's a lot of moments like that. that I think they are obviously better for it because I think they're good, independent kids. But I do worry that they lost out on just the magic of having two parents to herself for three years or whatever. So it's it's not one or the other.
00:30:48
Speaker
It's if and whatever. But it's, I don't know, I feel for someone who was trying to plan because, I mean, I'd say it's sort of a fool ah fool's errand. But there are commonalities to the different makeup. So I get it. Do you all notice that you parent your children differently? And and I don't just mean, i mean, just in terms of discipline, the way that you speak to them, do you find, because I know that this is the case for me, you know, there's certain things that,
00:31:20
Speaker
my oldest is probably doing right now that I might make my middle child wait a little bit longer to do just because that's how things have happened. And I know that's something when I was reading about this topic that a lot of people think about and consider.
00:31:34
Speaker
And ah tip that everyone keeps giving me that has older children with a larger age gap is don't let your third just get away with everything because you're tired or just don't let your youngest.
00:31:46
Speaker
And that is something my husband and I think about a lot because it is You know, you have that younger one and then you have an 11-year-old and you're just kind of like, I don't care anymore because I don't want to deal with this. But at the end of the day, can't let everything slide because then we're creating a monster.
00:32:03
Speaker
And I think it's inevitable that that's going to happen. And I guess it's just trying to right-size it and make sense of like, I don't know, when my oldest was – seven, we never had her out until like 10 o'clock at night. And my youngest will all be at a friend's house and having a great time. And we're like, oh guys, sorry, it's 1130. Let's go home.
00:32:24
Speaker
Like for me, it's not habitual and he's going to be fine. But like, they're not, none of them are getting a phone until they turn 13. Or so it's like, I, yeah we think about it too. It's like, how do you navigate the natural sort of slippery slope that happens just as a parent in general, you realize that the hill that you were dying on with your first two kids, turns out that hill isn't as important with your, and that's, I don't know.
00:32:51
Speaker
Like. Yeah, no, it's true. Yeah. yeah Yeah. For me, it's less about the age gap and it's more about the amount of children that has changed maybe how I parent. What we use, and we've talked about this before, we use a lot in our houses. We have certain ages where things can happen, like you mentioned with the phone, Charlotte. So like that's kind of how we have like certain things that like at this age, that's when you can do whatever. And and it kind of just works as is like everyone just currently at least accepts it as like a family, whatever, like you don't get to do, you you like ah you you start ah swim lessons when you're three. So and before you're three, you don't to do, so you know, so we kind of just have these like whatever that we use because it can get tricky where if you don't kind of have these hard and fast that you're like,
00:33:35
Speaker
Obviously the first just got more things in some ways, because even if they only had you alone for a year, it was still, they got so much more in some ways. And then sometimes I feel guilty about my third and my fourth because I'm like, they didn't get the same.
00:33:51
Speaker
Like we were talking in the last episode about arts and crafts. Like I used to do so much more involved arts and crafts when I only had two kids first when I had four, but then I think about it on the flip side, this last winter,
00:34:03
Speaker
when it snowed, I realized like I've never taken my six-year-old to like the golf course to go sledding when it snows, which partially is's because we haven't been getting good snow here in Connecticut. But also was like for the past three winters, I've had like a newborn. I'm like, what am I going to do?
00:34:17
Speaker
And so then I feel guilty. I'm like, is he getting deprived of certain experiences where I have a friend who only has one kid and their kid is knows how to ski and has done this and and blah, blah, blah. And so you know you can cut it any which way. And there's like you said, there's going to be pros and cons either way. And what I always come back to is you know we always knew we wanted four. I'm so happy for the relationship that my kids have, even though I'm sure it will ebb and flow. And I'm sure that they will have times where maybe they like each other more than they don't. But We focus so heavily on like our family and our time as a family and like their relationship as siblings. Like, that's what I come back to is like, I try to tell myself that that's what will make it worth it. Yeah.
00:34:57
Speaker
No, you're right, Kelly. I feel like in our house, cause it was two girls and then a boy. where if it that third was a girl, it might be different in our house.
00:35:09
Speaker
And he is like the prince of the house and kind of runs the show. And I know he's the love – I always tell him, you're the love of my life because he loves me. He likes me.
00:35:21
Speaker
Like no one else does, you know? like Like even this morning at the bus stop, he like holds my hand still. He he comes home from school and he's like, how you know, I don't – He asked me how my day is. Like, no one else really cares, you know?
00:35:37
Speaker
And he's the last, too, and I know I'm not having any more children. So it's like in the morning, he comes in and gives me a morning hug where, you know, my middle, I feel like she sometimes likes me.
00:35:53
Speaker
And like you were saying, Callie, with the the whole dynamic as as a family is, I try to make time for the five of us to do things, even if it's homes, doing things at home, watching a movie, all sitting on the couch together, or actually having family dinner, wit which we had as growing up. But now today with everyone's schedules, I don't know when we would all eat it together, but I do try. or going out to dinner on the weekends, which doesn't happen very often either, and then family vacations. I feel like February break and April break, even if it's a weekend thing or going to my parents, the summertime, taking that trip together because that's when I feel like the bond and creating those memories together that they remember.
00:36:44
Speaker
And they do remember stuff at home too. You can have just as much fun at home. But I feel like now that they're getting older is – making sure that we make that time, even if they don't want to be with me, I don't really care. It's you're, you're going to spend tonight with me and we're going to watch a movie and you're not going to your friend's house. And I really have made a point.
00:37:04
Speaker
I feel like over the past two or three years now that our oldest is in high school where she's like, Oh, I don't, and' I'm not doing that with you guys. and I'm like, no, you are. Yes, this is what we're doing. And you can go see your friends later on because the friends, you know, I remember going through that too. But family at the end of the day, like, is that your bond? This is your home. We're all under this roof together and you're you're stuck with me.
00:37:31
Speaker
It's fun to watch. And I think this happens with every family. My siblings, I think I said, were three years apart. And so we sort of caught up with each other and started hanging out. probably in our early 20s is when we really could sort of just be pals.
00:37:47
Speaker
And it's fun to watch. My kids are just beginning. There's sort of an alchemy that happens that older three have phones. And so watching them like text each other, or I was away last weekend for a night and I took my oldest daughter and then my youngest daughter.
00:38:03
Speaker
so you know, number one and number four. And they are really similar in a lot of ways. And I just hadn't seen that combo. And I was with my mother and she was like, it's so sweet to watch them interact because they both love theater. And the youngest one just is like worshiping her older sister in a way that she's just very enamored with her, but she's old enough to have a conversation. So it's fun to watch the dynamics as they grow out of that like parallel play or let's do blocks together.
00:38:33
Speaker
And that's going to happen regardless of how old your kids are. It may happen at different times based on how far apart they are, but that, that is something we're beginning to see a little bit of it. Meg, you probably see it a little bit too. Caitlin, yours might be a little young still, but it's... You know, I'm definitely... There's a difference as Arbor is more of a human and not just so much as like a wrecking ball. Like to see how she interacts with Ailey versus interacts with Annabelle. She does look up to both of them different in different ways.
00:39:06
Speaker
And how she... copies them and mimics them and wants to impress them or, and then she'll be naughty and do something to try to get their attention in the wrong way. But I think my favorite moments is when it's the three of them doing something, whatever it is. I mean, just earlier today, all screaming and running to go look at the window at a chipmunk, like all of them together, equally excited.
00:39:31
Speaker
And, you know, uh, one of the questions I was thinking about for this episode is, you know, what are some things that people don't talk about when it comes to age gaps? And I think you guys have all kind of touched on that is just the stuff that can happen where that you, you, certain children don't get to do that other siblings got to because they were first born or last born or whatever. And then also just seeing the dynamics of your kids at different stages and how they get along. But is there anything else that you could think of?
00:40:04
Speaker
you know, maybe a new parent or. i think that an interesting thing I've noticed as we go through like the sibling dynamics is the same as it is when you talk about just a single child is that like our sibling dynamics go through seasons.
00:40:18
Speaker
So like we've certainly had seasons, like currently I have a nine month old, right. And a two year old. And that's, that can be a hard dynamic cause when a nine month old, they're old enough to pull up, they're old enough to knock over toys and And the two year old is not old enough to understand that you can't just push somebody, you know, and I remember going through that dynamic with my first and my second.
00:40:40
Speaker
And remember when we hit that and I remember being like, what did I do? You know, like this is like what a horrible like I can't leave them alone for a second. But it's just what I found is just like you're.
00:40:51
Speaker
your child goes through seasons and you're going to go through like the hard seasons and going to pass like the sibling dynamic season sort of go through too so if i was going to leave somebody with like a tidbit i think that's what i would leave them with because i remember when we had our second like when she was first born it was fine miles was like barely two and it was no big deal but once she kind of got mobile i remember with that being a really hard and i remember being like oh my god this is going to be horrible forever having like two kids and trying to like manage that Yeah, I was really glad. i remember that too. I was really glad to have just a modicum of understanding of child psychology because it was really reassuring for me to be like, okay, right.
00:41:30
Speaker
This is not some reaction to... me and the bait. This is just developmentally where they're at. My middle child was probably about the age gap you're describing when Arthur was born. And Martha would just go up to him and just like poke him in the eyes.
00:41:45
Speaker
yeah punch and know and And she would look at you like, look what I just learned. And there was no ill intent. And it would have been very easy for me to be like, oh my God, she's like, there's the newborn and she hates the newborn and she's mad at me because there's and maybe there was a little bit of that. Mostly I think she was like, what will happen? Like, it was like a little machine that she, she was like, I poke and he cries and like, yes.
00:42:07
Speaker
There's also zero impulse control, right? Until they're like five or something. And so they might get mad and push. Like I watch my even four-year-old still do this and then immediately be like, uh-oh, what did I... Because they just they there's not enough in their brain to be like, wait a second, don't do that. They're just like, don't touch my toy, push you over. And so, yeah, I mean, that that has definitely been... Yeah, Arbor last night just bit Eileen for the first time really hard.
00:42:33
Speaker
and And she's struggling because... You know, she's three and a half. She understands, you know, everyone kind of has their own toys to play with. But at the same time, they're going, don't touch this one. This one's mine. I mean, they set up a whole American Girl doll house last night in the playroom. All three of them. Super cute. But then Annabelle had her own area of the house and Eileen had hers. And Arbor's like, well, you guys gave me like this broken crib. And I was like, I'm watching this thinking like my three three-year-olds, like they ripped me off.
00:43:05
Speaker
They have all the good furniture. and Eileen went to take something back and Arbor just bit her hand.
Parenting Peaks and Pits
00:43:11
Speaker
And me and Britt, I walked in the kitchen and I was like, I don't want to laugh. I don't want to laugh, but that was hilarious. She just made a bitter. And then Eileen screaming that we don't punish her and we don't care. And I'm like, she, but she doesn't, she's three.
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah. You took a toy away from her. She doesn't understand. Now, if you bit Annabelle, that's different. You're eight. You don't bite. That's big in our house that we don't punish.
00:43:38
Speaker
Usually it's Arthur. there you You don't get mad at him. You're letting him get away with it. yeah Yeah. Which was the hardest? I feel like maybe we talked about this before. I know we need to move on, but did you have a noticeable, what was the hardest one?
00:43:50
Speaker
for like For me, it was going from one to two. And our second is still maybe my most challenging. So it may just be a personality thing. But i also just remember i barely felt like I had the rhythm down with one. And I was very sort of precious about everything. And then all of a sudden, there's a whole other one that I had to figure out. And but time goes fast. You figure it out.
00:44:14
Speaker
You figure it out quick. But I definitely remember. That was hard for me going from one to two. Yeah. Same. I remember that same thing, Charlotte. I was like, what did i do And I remember my mom being like, this is your life. Like you just got to deal with this is how it's going to be. Cause you don't, it's so much chaos, right? um One was like manageable and then two, and then you add the third and you're like, well, this is fine. It's already a shit show. What's one more going to do? The only thing that stressed me out so much, but I've obviously learned to deal with it is going from two to three.
00:44:46
Speaker
and all the laundry. yeah Like, I don't know how Charlotte and Callie deal with like five and four laundry, but my house even with the three, with the laundry, it was just like, does it ever, is am I ever caught up?
00:45:00
Speaker
And that shouldn't have stressed me out, but I'm like, and I remember, like same thing. And my mom was like, it is what it is. Like, what are you to not have kids because of the laundry? I'm like, no, but it's just, the laundry is overwhelming.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I remember hearing something about laundry once, and I'm not going to remember the quote. I wish I'd written down because so beautiful. But this woman was basically like, we look at laundry as something that's supposed to be done. Yes. Like we're supposed to finish the laundry.
00:45:25
Speaker
she was like, if you can, you're always wearing clothes. And I wish, again, I could remember how she said it. But she was like, it's not something that ever finishes. It's just something that you're always doing. You know, you're always like, you know, and like that kind of helps you like lift off that feeling of like,
00:45:39
Speaker
There should be, like, there should always be dirty clothes in the hamper because you're always wearing clothes. But we kind of have this, like, weird mentality that, like, it should, there should always be empty hampers and it should always be finished. Yeah, or put away. Like, that feeling of it being put away. It's like, yeah but you don't get that a lot, right?
00:45:56
Speaker
That doesn't happen in my house. Two to three was, I mean, I'm still, I'm not okay. Yeah. i'm not okay But I had a huge to one was me, so, yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
You said how many? Zero to one was my hardest. Yeah. Hands down the hardest for me. Yeah. And I think, you know, it is just different for everyone. and We're just going to go straight into our peaks and pits of the week.
00:46:22
Speaker
I have no idea what I even was going to mention. Does anyone have a great peak or just took a really crappy pit? I have a peek. It's not great, but I'm cautiously... I was going to say that I had a campaign that involved me like cleaning up my outdoor space, my porch, and my patio.
00:46:41
Speaker
And so I filmed all that over the I was gone over the weekend, but I filmed it recently. And so my backyard is looking great for about an hour until all the weeds come back, blah, blah, blah.
00:46:52
Speaker
But one of the things that I bought to help style this campaign was a maidenhair fern. Do you know what those are? No. It's a type of fern that is so like wispy and delicate and sort of ethereal that it's lovely. You see it in a lot of design, but because it's so delicate kit and wispy, it's a dick.
00:47:15
Speaker
And if you don't take care of it dies so quickly. And so I got it at, I think I got it at Terrain or something. And I always am like, do you have any tips for me? And their tips were like, don't let it dry out.
00:47:29
Speaker
So this one is sitting on the kitchen counter. So I can't forget. Like you forget about it for an hour and it's dead. So this is now on my kitchen. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but that's how it feels.
00:47:40
Speaker
It's high maintenance. Yeah. Like my other plants, I'll be like, uh, when did I last water them? And it's been like a month and they're fine because I found the right plants and whatever. So this I've kept alive for like three weeks.
00:47:52
Speaker
Okay. That's good. I'm literally just, I'm Googling to see what it looks like. And every other photo is like a text overlay. That's like how to keep it alive. Like the finicky made in there.
00:48:04
Speaker
How to, how to make sure it doesn't die. so funny. Oh, wow. Megan, how about you? i have a peek. So Nico is eight and he accomplished something over the weekend and I'm proud of, but I also feel bad it took so long. It's, ah you know, he's the third child kind of age gaps here is he can ride his bike by himself now. Oh, that's awesome.
00:48:31
Speaker
Did he have one of those balance bikes? Yes. He hated it. And it makes me giggle because I feel like Ava, our firstborn, probably learned to ride a bike when she was like four, you know?
00:48:41
Speaker
With no, like no training wheels by yourself. And then, you know, it's, again, it's me er and Joe spending the time with him to teach him, to give him that confidence, to keep doing it.
00:48:54
Speaker
We don't have, where we live, because we're close to town, we don't keep our bikes here. We keep them at my parents. And that's another thing. But he was like, mom, I finally know how to ride a bike. Yeah.
00:49:07
Speaker
ah without training wheels. And I was like, that is amazing. And I'm like, again, hopefully, you know, no one thinks I'm a bad parent because he's eight, but. No, I, cop no, I just, I just learned sometime in the last year and she's the same age. She just was too scared. Yeah. She was terrified.
00:49:26
Speaker
Yeah. And, and they have a uh, parade coming up for 4th of July where we visit my parents. And every year I feel bad. He had to go on a scooter, you know, and all the and now he'll be a, and I was like, Nico, now for the Yankee doodle parade, you'll be able to decorate your bike. And he's like, yeah.
00:49:45
Speaker
But I think those balance bikes, they're so confident that they don't ever want to take the chance to level up. Cause they can like buzz around on the balance bikes. We had one, a Santa got it two years ago. I don't know why you didn't like it. I don't know.
00:49:57
Speaker
Oh, I know. I like, I mean, I like it. It looks fun. Well, I, I've been sitting here trying to think if I had a peak or a pit and I guess my peak is i hate, I don't know if you guys have trouble finding a bathing suit in the summer.
00:50:15
Speaker
oh Like just, so I've worn the same bathing suit since it's like stretched out from when I was pregnant with Arbor. And I found two bathing suits this year that I really, really like. And I get to wear them to the beach and I'm excited not to wear the same maternity suit that I've been wearing for three years.
00:50:33
Speaker
what's What's the brand you ended up finding? Two different ones. Bowdoin, the brand Bowdoin. Nice. And then Beach Riot. Nice. Yeah. So I'm excited about that.
00:50:46
Speaker
I was furious. A couple of years ago, I needed some new suits and everyone was raving about, i think it's somersault. And their campaign was based on like all the different body types and all the different women.
00:50:58
Speaker
and I was like, this is it. They didn't fit my butt. It was that same. And I was like, I don't want to be fishing it out of my butt the whole time. yeah And I was, I guess I had high expectations. I mean, the suits were lovely and they're very well made. And, but I just, I was like, I need, and the only suits.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah. yeah The only ones I found have been at like TJ Maxx or Marshalls. And they're some legit brand, but they're not, I don't know. Bowdoin, I've heard is good too. that Yeah. Full coverage on my butt. and and they The cups are not like, I did get a two piece, but the cups are not like, you how they get like crunchy or they're weird. They fit.
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah. um yeah I'm not into the cheeky bottoms either, especially with the kids. And then you're like pulling it out of your ass. No, but ah you, but you have to have like no hips. Like I have a wide butt.
00:51:47
Speaker
Like I don't understand my butt cheeks come out like this. So every bathing suit is going to show some kind of cheek and the Bowdoin one come the beach riot one does not. That one's a little, there's some cheeks.
00:51:58
Speaker
That's okay. The Bowdoin is covered. Brandon will like the cheeky one. Okay. Callie, how about you? therapist so Well, my peak was the same as Megan's peak was that Miles learned how to ride his bike this weekend on Father's Day.
00:52:14
Speaker
Which, it's funny because mine was the opposite because he was the first. We were like always too busy with babies that we never did it and It's not like it's obviously way too late for him. He's only so six and a half, but he really wanted to master it last year. And like we moved and it was so hot and I was really pregnant. And so like I kind of had felt like I dropped the ball on him because he probably could have done it last year.
00:52:38
Speaker
And so it was funny. We took out the bikes on Father's Day. We had a pipe. We we don't have like a paved driveway. So there's nowhere that he could learn to. It was really hard. But we ended up getting a patio. And i was like, he can start practicing on the patio. This is great.
00:52:50
Speaker
I pulled out the bike. I was like, Miles, this week we're going to do it you're going to learn how to ride the bike. Like he got on it and just rode it because like he was obviously ready last year. But like I was just too pregnant to do it. So that was, I'm i'm happy for him that he's done that.
00:53:03
Speaker
And we also did the balance bike things. It worked out pretty well for us. Finley wants nothing to do with them currently. we have ah We have like the little two-year-old balance bike that they're supposed to use first that has like, I think two wheels in the front one in the back or something. And she like wants to ride that around. It's like for the two-year-old.
00:53:20
Speaker
Well, do you have the sit and scoot? It like goes from a scooter to a balance bike? I mean, it's kind of like that. We have that and Arbor is just too tall for it. And she, yeah she's just like pedaling on it and like scraping her knees as she goes.
00:53:34
Speaker
I'm like, maybe she needs a real bike. I feel like Finley's going to ride her bike now like this coming weekend. She might. Her personality. she's really into the scooter. She loves the scooter. So I think she's she's happy to scoot around. She tried the balance. I will give her credit. She tried the balance bike for a while and she got a little.
00:53:52
Speaker
The trick with the balance bike I have found teaching them is it's about them learning how to stay balanced. You need to find a spot with a slight. like, um, decline and they can, you know, that way they don't have to worry as much about going. They can just start to practice the, whatever, like that's kind of the key to it.
00:54:09
Speaker
Um, so she did give it a, she gave it a good effort, but we're very flat right where we are. So she'll get there. Yeah. Two bike riders. who excitinging Yeah. On that note, i mean I hope you guys all have a a great day, a great week.
00:54:24
Speaker
Leave us a review.
00:54:27
Speaker
I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. Megan's cheering. Still doing our cheer. Yep. Nice. I know. All right. Bye. Bye.