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Feminism and How We Address It With Our Kids
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In this candid and thought-provoking episode of Just 4 Moms, Charlotte celebrates a milestone birthday and dreams of a girls trip, while the hosts share their latest "mom fails"—from forgotten snacks to Easter candy sabotage. But the heart of the episode dives deep into a listener's question: How do we talk to our kids about feminism?
Charlotte offers a quick history of feminism, and the moms discuss how their parenting approaches reflect their values—from dismantling gender stereotypes in chores and play to raising sensitive sons and confident daughters. Special guest Chrissy Khachane, an educational consultant and former head of school, joins the conversation with her take on how fairness, dignity, and opportunity are key to raising the next generation.
With warmth, humor, and honesty, the hosts explore how motherhood itself can be a feminist act—and how we’re all figuring it out in real time.
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Transcript
ASMR and Stanley Cup Fiasco
00:00:02
Speaker
Just a little crunchy snack to start. yeah Wait, I brought something funny and I think Charlotte's going to want one. Okay, ready? Oh, is this your fucking Stanley snack cup?
00:00:16
Speaker
Get right up close to the mic, Megan. Yeah. this could be We could be an ASMR podcast now if you just yeah eat your snacks. I have snacks and a beverage while we're filming episode 17. Are Stanley's still a thing?
00:00:32
Speaker
I mean, i think kind of, but not like... My kids think they are, but my husband this morning was like, this is the hardest container to open and close, and I hate it. Can you never bring them in the house again?
00:00:45
Speaker
Gianna said that her teachers don't like them because they leak. They do leak. Not my kids' ones. They have the ones that screw on top with the little thing that you push up. They're all into the... Is it Hydro Flask, right? Yeah.
00:00:58
Speaker
Odwalla. Odwalla. For the wallas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, joke's on you for hydrating. I know, i know. That's your first my mistake right there. Welcome to Just For Moms. I'm Charlotte.
00:01:10
Speaker
I'm
Meet the Moms: Aging and Parenthood
00:01:11
Speaker
Caitlin. I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner. Again, no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. Okay, she's quiet, so we're gonna... Nope.
00:01:33
Speaker
Nope. She sounds like a tornado siren. She's really finding her pipes. We're just going to start. We're going to start because that's just part of the ambiance. Welcome back to Just for Moms episode 17, right?
00:01:51
Speaker
Yes. There is not a tornado about to hit. I know, guys. That's the dog. I'm confident she will stop barking. She's in a crate. She can't even stand up in her crate because she likes the small one.
00:02:03
Speaker
and don't know. That qualifies as a bark. It is a ah yowl. She's moaning
Spring Break and Milestone Birthdays
00:02:08
Speaker
for mommy. yeah I mean, I'll go up and deal in a minute, but she like, what is she barking at? She's in a crate.
00:02:14
Speaker
We're just coming back from spring vacation and this is going to air long after we're back. So I didn't want to get into it too much, but did you guys all have fun? You had a week off. It was nice. No complaints.
00:02:25
Speaker
No, it was horrible. No, Callie? Callie said no. because you have little kids. Yeah. So they were in preschool, normal week. Yeah. No, we were all home because our preschool still observes spring break.
00:02:36
Speaker
Oh, fun. Yeah, that's, I mean, yes, so fun. I just have more laundry. I mean, it was fine. It was nice. The kids were home and the weather was pretty good, but I just like have so much laundry and I'm just feel really out of sorts.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, because then you had a birthday too. Yeah, and it was Easter at the end of spring break, so it was just a lot. Yeah. Well, i had a big birthday too. I turned 50 in the middle of spring break. So no, I didn't celebrate. I went out for dinner. It was fine.
00:03:05
Speaker
Whatever. It is what it is. But I keep telling myself that I want to go away and have like a girl's trip at some point to celebrate my birthday. And, you know, then you start thinking about what does that look like? And – My friends are not like a cohesive group. They're very disparate, random individuals that I think would all love each other. But it's not like I get on the group chat and say, hey guys, what are you up to?
00:03:29
Speaker
It would probably have to be like a long weekend because everyone is a mom and or many are moms. So getting away for longer. And then I sort of get in this quagmire of how does this work? How do you plan it? Where would I go?
00:03:44
Speaker
What is the cost? And so that was what my question for you guys was, is that if someone were to say, and P.S., I haven't even thought about like how I'm going to pay for this. It's just like, it's a long weekend. I'll figure something out.
00:03:56
Speaker
So if you could go anywhere or do anything, what is that? Like, help me out. What would you do? Because I've gone through many iterations, right? I couldn't answer this immediately. There's somebody sharing their, like their weekend away where she planned ah an Airbnb and everyone just comes and brings their books that they want to read.
00:04:17
Speaker
And she planned all the meals and i want to show up for that. So I don't want to plan it. I want someone to invite me to a house, preferably like with a nice view where our activities are kind of, you know, you could come, you don't have to come, but there's time every day.
00:04:35
Speaker
for you to do whatever you want to do. You want to read, you want to paint, and there's no one interrupting you. want that. And then, but where would the house be? Like local? Because we these are people coming from all over the country. Yeah. I guess it would have to be somewhere that everyone could get to.
00:04:50
Speaker
i mean, if you had a cool Airbnb in your town, I mean, I feel like you do. know, but I sort of want to go to like a beach. I mean, I like, I feel like you're right. I need to plan it. So it's just like, here's what we're doing. Come.
00:05:03
Speaker
But then Do you go to Puerto Rico so you don't have to clear customs? Because that's a warm beach and you don't have to have a passport. I love Mexico, but Mexico is a little further away. like you so I'm stressing myself out with this and I haven't even started planning.
00:05:17
Speaker
You just did this with Megan. How did you do it with your girlfriends? I was going to say, do you not want to fly anywhere? Do you want to do like Newport, Rhode Island? That would be fun. There's plenty of Airbnbs there and you could go out to eat.
00:05:29
Speaker
Or you could stay home. So you could do Friday night, out to eat, Saturday night, stay home and all venture to the beach one day because it's warm sometimes this time of year.
00:05:41
Speaker
know I know. I personally sort of do want to – because I just went to a Newport. But like I sort of want to go somewhere cool. i Like I even thought about just going somewhere alone. was like, what if I just go to like the mall diet, like do something really fancy alone?
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah. I thought
Mom Fails and Easter Candy Overflow
00:05:54
Speaker
you just said the mall. I did too. how do you pronounce it? Maldives or Maldives? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't that one of those places where you're just on like a house looking over the beautiful blue water? Yeah. Yes.
00:06:07
Speaker
I actually, I vote for that too. Yeah. I'm also just, I'm so distracted by the dog. Is it loud in everyone else's ears or is it my headphones making it loud?
00:06:18
Speaker
She's, um, she's a little loud. i was kind of looking at your face. Sometimes I don't know if it's my headphones that like sometimes certain things are louder. She stopped, right? No, no, I'm muted. oh I just yelled at her. She may be, I mean, do you want to like rerecord everything? No, no, I don't think we need to.
00:06:36
Speaker
I just have no, i have no control over my giggling about it. No, I'm just, she's like in this little, crit I don't even know what she's barking at. She'll take a nap. wow She seems quiet now for a minute. yeah She had like ramped, she'd like ramped up higher. She was like getting louder.
00:06:53
Speaker
There's probably Amazon or something that she could see. I'm sorry. I'm i'm sorry. Yeah, so I've i've gone – I've considered everything. I have a friend who has an apartment in Lisbon, Portugal, and I was like, that would be fun. But then for a long weekend, I feel like that's a waste of a fun trip somewhere that you really want to explore.
00:07:11
Speaker
and I don't think it's fair – like I can do that anytime I want. Like as the kids get older, I can just tag out and go. And i don't know. like i want It's hard when there's like no boundary. It's like you can just do whatever.
00:07:23
Speaker
yeah a little bit. Anyway, that was my – that's been my – I'll figure it out by the time I turn like 54, no doubt. but Sure, definitely. Because I can't do it this spring, so it's definitely going to be an after-the-fact trip anyway. And then, I don't know the potential for this to be pushed out in eternity is there.
00:07:42
Speaker
But I do want to make it happen. I think girls' trips are really fun. I think they're important. Yeah. What's your favorite thing to do, Charlotte? I mean, I can sit on a beach and day drink and read a book yeah a lot.
00:07:54
Speaker
I mean, i love I love exploring new cities and stuff too, but that feels a little less relaxing. Like if a bunch of girlfriends came together, it might just be easiest and most fun to sit around. Yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
I mean, Florida is super easy. That's true. The Keys are fun. Yeah. I've never been I feel like you keep saying beach. I know. You need to pick a beach town. Just pick a beach. Yeah. Okay.
00:08:16
Speaker
All right. And then just do it. um All right. Let's move on to mom fails. Who has – looks like three of us have mom fails. Megan, do you have a mom fail? So, yes. It's kind of a lame mom fail, but I got nominated to do that ice bucket challenge that everyone's doing, and I forgot to do it. Okay.
00:08:34
Speaker
know My kids are doing it with their friends. I don't know. i just like kind of over it because it happened. When was that? Yeah. ALS years ago. You know, i like my friend was like, you know, you forgot to do it. And I'm like, yeah, I know. So that's i'll do it my fail.
00:08:49
Speaker
I don't know. I should. what I don't get about them is that they're fun. And they, I guess people are talking about whatever it's meant to support, but it's not like, are you meant to donate money and dump the ice? are you just meant to dump the ice and tag someone? Cause then I don't know. I don't know that we moving the needle on anything.
00:09:06
Speaker
I just, I will. I just saw somebody share a ah girl I know who's in college and at six, six things you're supposed to do if you're nominated. And every single video I've seen is not doing any of those things except for tagging the organization. It's mental health awareness, isn't it?
00:09:24
Speaker
And no one's doing anything but being like, I got tagged by my friend. Yeah. Where the ALS one, i don't, I remember donating. I probably still have my video somewhere, but my friend was riding in an ALS bike um charity event.
00:09:40
Speaker
So I donated and yeah. I saw even on the news, like the newscasters were doing it and it's like, but did they talk about why? No, they all just dunked each other with ice and water. Yeah.
00:09:52
Speaker
Like Jenna Bush, I saw her do it yesterday and the whole cast was doing it to each other. I mean, soaked on set. It was pretty funny. But again, yeah, i don't I don't know. I'm sure they donated. Well, there's still time, but I'm with you. I think I would conveniently forget that too.
00:10:07
Speaker
Same. Yeah. I didn't even know it was going
Packing Nightmares and Gender Roles
00:10:09
Speaker
around again. i only know because I have a lot of my nephews in high school, lot of older girls from dance. They're all doing it.
00:10:18
Speaker
I just... I thought it was dumb.
00:10:23
Speaker
Callie, Caitlin, do either of you have mom fails? Not really. i have a mom fail. So my um daughter's preschool does community snack, which is amazing because don't have to bring snack ever. don't have to pack at snack ever. But one week of the year, you're in charge of snack for the whole class.
00:10:39
Speaker
So I had this Monday, which we just discussed, was the Monday coming back from spring break, the day after Easter, as well as my son's second birthday. And I wrote out my calendar like three times so I wouldn't forget.
00:10:52
Speaker
i forgot. forgot community snack. So that's my mom fail. So what do you do? Do they have extras or do you have to run out and get? So she didn't text. i didn't even know. i I didn't even know that I missed it until the teacher texted me like at lunch.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so I assume because it was like the Monday going back, they probably had like, um my guess is they usually have Monday snack from like the previous time because you bring the snack at drop off. Like they're not going to like organize it all like in that moment. So my guess is that Monday snack is usually taken care of anyways.
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah. And she was like, it's not a big deal. Like, just bring it tomorrow. But I just – usually my mom fails are not, like, planning. And, like, that's my one thing that I'm usually pretty good about. So it felt like an extra mom fail. I was going to say, anything with organization, that's usually your sweet spot.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yeah, not this time around. I mean, i was – no, i was just going really quick interrupt, obviously, um to just say I'm just failing at ah keeping candy away from everyone after Easter because – I did not give candy, but there plenty of other family members who thought it was so cute to give their grandchildren candy. So much candy.
00:12:02
Speaker
So much. And she hides it all over the house and then appears with like a box of nerds. I'm like, I thought I confiscated all of these. How do you have more? So I'm just, I'm failing at that.
00:12:13
Speaker
I sort of feel like candy's a rite of passage, and i' but I'm with you. There's so much. And I just, I turn a blind eye for a day or two. i let them just mainline it because then it's gone. Yeah. Well, we have Tuma. I mean, I'm the same. Like on Halloween, on Easter, I'm like, you eat the candy at 7 a.m. m I don't care. It's Easter. But there was so much came into our house that I i don't – I'm so overwhelmed. And there are certain people that are like, yes, your two-year-old needs a full-size chocolate bunny.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yes. No. I don't – what would i even going do? ah Chop it up? and I don't even know what to do with it. Anyways. Yeah. um I might need to go deal with this fucking dog.
00:12:51
Speaker
um My mom fail, and then I'll go deal with her, is that we went away. We went to see my folks. And there's nothing like fancy, fancy per se, but we were definitely, like my dad got us tickets to go to see Annie at the theater, and we had my birthday dinner. Like we were definitely to be out in public.
00:13:07
Speaker
My eighth grade son, my eighth grade son understands like how the world works. Conveniently forgot to bring anything that was not like... shorts.
00:13:18
Speaker
and And so at one point, he thankfully, he went into my brother's closet and he had some dress pants, but they're too baggy. So he wore them. But like, at what point you have to stop reminding your kids to look like presentable humans?
00:13:33
Speaker
I know. That's so annoying. So he must have been cold. That was not my problem. He wouldn't have admitted to that. no ah It was warm. It was nice when we were there. It was sunny and probably, and I don't know, seventies.
00:13:47
Speaker
I feel like he probably had one pair of sweatpants or something, but like, yeah I don't know. The girls all bought dresses and skirts because they are happy to be out and wear are party clothes. The boys are just a different story. They don't care.
00:14:00
Speaker
my My son's the same, Charlotte. He would do the same thing. Yeah. um Okay. You talk amongst yourselves. You can keep recording. I'm going to go deal with the dog. I'll tell you guys a story about, I'll never forget when Michael and I, Michael and I started dating young and we moved in together young and we went on vacation. no we didn't go on vacation. When we would go away, like I would pack his shit just cause like I was packing my stuff and I would pack his shit and like he would just always forget something and or he would do it the morning of and that would like give me anxiety. So I would do it.
00:14:28
Speaker
And I'll never forget the first time that I was like, not, I didn't pack his things. We were going to his biological father's funeral, like an important event. We get there. I'm not shitting you like the hour before it's time to leave for the funeral. He's like, oh, I didn't pack dress socks.
00:14:42
Speaker
I didn't dress shoes. um A belt and an undershirt for like the whatever suit. I'm like...
Feminism: History and Parenting Approaches
00:14:52
Speaker
How?
00:14:53
Speaker
I don't understand. And like he's still, still sometimes to this day, he just thinks like, we'll stop at a store really quick on the way. I'm like, I'm not stopping at Macy's on the way to a wedding so that you can get shirt. I just don't understand that. Yeah.
00:15:07
Speaker
Our Easter morning. So I always plan everyone's, that's just me. I have to like put things like Nico's options for the morning. We're on hanging on his dresser. yeah I told the girls the night before.
00:15:21
Speaker
do you know what you're wearing for church? if i need Do I need to like de-wrinkle it? You know, we have the de-wrinkle set around the dryer because everyone's always complaining. And I kind of threw a few things out for me just so it's like, because we're not like, we're it's you know how it is. The mornings are nuts.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I always say to Joe, do you know what you're going to wear tomorrow? And he waits till last minute. And then like the shirt he picked out was all wrinkled. His whole, his pants had a big hole right like in the ass part. Yeah. From, he's like, I don't, my job site pants are the only ones that fit. And then it was like, everything was wrinkled. And I was just like, you need to like it plan and give it to me so I can de-wrinkle it. Like we can't go to church. You can't go to church like that. Is this it your husband?
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. But like the kids, I remind them and I said to him, same thing. Like, and I'm going to have to do it again because we have Nico's communion on Saturday. I'll be like, do I need to go to the cleaner? Can I throw it in the,
00:16:16
Speaker
Like, I'm not a morning person where I can, like, do all that. It's just too much chaos, and it's so last minute. So I, like, we're walking into Easter, and i don't want, like, and I was like, oh, my. I'm like, you know there's a hole in your pants, right? Yeah. And he's like – You know, and it's like you've been alive for 40 years. Like, how do you not know that you can't it's not going to take five minutes to get.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah. And like even with the wrinkle spray, he's spraying it and then like pulling it and then it's blow drying it. And I'm like, we're supposed to be in the car right now. Yeah. And isn't this stressful? Like, don't you want to save yourself from this stress? That's what I don't understand. It happens every time and you're stressed. Yeah. Yeah. And I do it the night before for me and my dress was all wrinkly and I was like fixing it. But then at least it's ready for the morning because I just like – I'm just, again, i can't handle the chaos of you need to do the metacognition that you do with kids and be like, I'm going to get out my dress tonight because I know tomorrow is going to be really busy and I'm going to spray it with wrinkles because that's planning ahead. Yeah. That doesn't See if he gets it. Yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker
My husband's scarred for life because I, we've in the beginning, I wouldn't pack, I wouldn't help him pack or whatever. And we would get places and he'd say, Oh, I have nothing to wear to do this. And I have nothing to to do that. And I'd say, well, that's not my pot, not my problem. Yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
here So now I will give him an itinerary of this is what's happening. This is how many times we're going to dinner. And if you don't bring those things and I take a photo of you and you don't like what you're wearing, too bad.
00:17:46
Speaker
it's going ah It's going all over social media. You're wearing a tank top from high school. don't care. Oh, boy. i don't care oh boy So i guess I guess the answer is, Charlotte, you said how long until you have to stop telling your son.
00:18:02
Speaker
At some point, it will just transfer to whoever he decides to be with. Or though it won't. Please forget. This is where I do feel like the generations are evident.
00:18:12
Speaker
Like when I was... younger And I suspect many of us, it was like athleisure was not an omnipresent thing. yeah And so you just knew that if you were to go out to dinner to a restaurant or, I don't know, get on an airplane or the theater that you would wear just a pair hard pants yeah A shirt, maybe a shirt with a collar. Like I don't need them to have a jacket and tie. God, that would send us back like another month, but just not sweatpants with holes in them.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah. No, that is true. That line has gotten really blurred. I remember like the first time that we took my children to an event that was at a church. And we had, you know, we got dressed up and my son was like, why do we have, and why are we getting dressed up?
00:18:53
Speaker
And I was like, well, there's certain things. And like, it was hard to even explain, explain, well, some things we dress nice for, I don't know, but you're right. Like that line is so blurred now. And it's a little, I mean, I guess this sort of segues into our topic a little bit because the idea of how you present yourself, I do think that there's some historic bias that comes with that. Like I remember interviewing at a school to be a sub and they were delighted to tell me that women could now wear pants.
00:19:21
Speaker
So this is a school where women are the teachers of five, six, seven, like small children, presumably down on the floor, getting up from the floor. And that they were just having to make do with the skirt. And this was, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years. Like this was not, it was not yesterday, but in our lifetime, that is a thing.
00:19:42
Speaker
And so the segue to our topic actually came from a listener who messaged us from our website. And she had a couple of different thoughts and questions and suggestions. And this one really resonated with us. And it was the idea of, as moms, what does feminism look like to us? And how do we then talk about it and present it to our kiddos?
00:20:09
Speaker
And both girls and boys, you know, Caitlin, you don't have to worry about presenting feminism to boys, but you know, my husband I think a lot of times the conversation about feminism is, it's often just presented as, you know, girl power and raising our girls to be strong. But as a mom to boys, I think it is as important, if not more important to teach the boys what feminism means. So I'm still out of breath from dragging my dog up to our bedroom where there's another crate she can bark from.
00:20:40
Speaker
um So I wanted to quickly give a brief history of feminism. This is not off of my brain. This is from like Wikipedia, but I do think that sometimes it's a loaded word that people naturally sort of object to.
00:20:54
Speaker
But there's been a few waves of feminism in the early That's sort of when it that's sort of when the first wave of it was, and that's when women were just literally getting the right to vote. So sort of the suffragette movement in the sixties, that's when we sort of think about women's lib and legal social equality, that there was another wave then in the early 1990s, apparently there was a third wave. And this was started by Anita Hill, who was the woman who testified on Capitol Hill. I think she was presenting her testimony in front of an all white male court
00:21:30
Speaker
about Clarence Thomas, who she had interned for, and that had been pretty icky. And then, so that was sort of more grounded in the idea that feminism can be, have sort of more individuality and diversity. And that one was a little bit more vague to me.
00:21:45
Speaker
But then there's sort of a fourth movement that we've all seen more recently, which was sort of the catalyst was more social media and the Me Too movement. And that had a lot more to do with sexual assault and just women having a safe space.
00:21:58
Speaker
And so that's sort of what we've seen as far as feminism over the last century or so. The definition of feminism which in its you know raw form is a social, political, and cultural movement that advocates for the equality of all genders, particularly focusing on the rights and opportunities of women.
00:22:18
Speaker
And it's fundamentally rooted in the belief that gender should not determine an individual's rights or opportunities. So it's not like anti-male. It's not saying that men can't do things. It's just saying that women should have the right to do everything that men do. And I think that that is sometimes hard for people to...
00:22:38
Speaker
accept because they see that women have the legal right to do just about everything, even though i think we've recently seen some of those legal legal rights taken away as far as um you know pro-choice, pro-life. There's a lot of states who have taken away the women's right to choose.
00:22:54
Speaker
But I did want to do more research because I do think that there's a bunch of people like I remember talking to my father in law about this years ago and he was like, i don't get it. I don't get it. And I was like, statistically, women do not make as much money as men.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like that is not me making it up. And I did fact check that. And. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of 2024, women globally earn 83 cents on the dollar. And in the United States, they earn 85 cents or 85 percent of what men earned. So like we're not there yet.
00:23:30
Speaker
In 2024, 52 out of 500 Fortune 500 companies female CEOs. That's 10 fortune five hundred companies had female ceos that's ten percent 26% of the U.S. Senate is women. 28% of the U.S. House is women.
00:23:43
Speaker
It wasn't until 1972 that Title IX was passed, and that was sort of an addition to a bunch of educational amendments that said that as um prohibits sex-based discrimination from a school that receives federal funding. So like this is our lifetime that all of these things were happening. So it's definitely not something that we fixed, and it's all better. so I'm to stop talking.
00:24:06
Speaker
I certainly have some answers for how feminism is present in our family, but I'm wondering for the three of you, do you talk about feminism? do you just have it running in the background? Do you not think about it What does that look like for you guys?
00:24:23
Speaker
I'll start with Caitlin. For me. Okay. yeah For me. um I just want to pull up my notes real quick to make sure I get, I did write some things down. Because I don't want to repeat myself.
00:24:35
Speaker
So it's funny because when I think about being a girl mom, I just think, okay, I'm a mom of three girls. I teach them that they can do whatever they want in their world. There's, that's it.
00:24:47
Speaker
That's just said and done. And we haven't had to really encounter anything where, you know, they saw a boy get to do something over them or something like that.
00:24:59
Speaker
Until ah my daughter ran for ah what was it called? She's in a community. Like something? Not even student council. It's like a community service ah club that they're in. And you when you're in fourth grade and fifth grade, you can run to do treasurer whatever, a thing like that.
00:25:17
Speaker
And she last year ran for treasurer and she lost to a boy. And I didn't say anything about it. I don't think anything about it, but her little sister said something.
00:25:29
Speaker
And her little sister was like, well, maybe he got it because he's a boy. And Annabelle was like, so? She's like, well, maybe because, I don't know, maybe he's better than money, better with money than girls are. And I was like, where would you have heard that? She couldn't tell me. She's in first grade, but my middle child is the one who comes up with these outlandish things.
00:25:49
Speaker
Or she just picks it up from something she watched in a show or anything. So that kind of led into a conversation of that's not how the world is supposed to work. It might work in some scenarios, but you should never...
00:26:03
Speaker
think that you can't do something because it's going up against someone who's a boy or different than you or anything like that. You know, you should just reach for your, always go for your dreams.
00:26:14
Speaker
And I think them seeing my husband, who's not very like, I am man, hear me roar kind of helps because he doesn't, you know, some dads, some male girl dads can just act like they're supposed to do everything. And,
00:26:32
Speaker
He shows them that, no, it's mommy and daddy do things, you know, like killing a bug. Even i might be the one to kill the bug. I might be the one to fix the dishwasher. So to answer your question, how do I approach it Not formally, but whenever the occasion strikes and I need to discuss that, you know, you're a girl, you could do whatever you want. Doesn't matter if you know anything about that, then that's where we go.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the hardest things about parenting is the parts of it that you're not anticipating. And when it comes to gender roles specifically, which I think is sort of knotted and tied together with the idea of feminism, I mean, all of us grew up in families where they were pretty traditional gender roles. I think all of us, quite honestly, are living in families now where the gender roles are not Totally traditional, but they're not not traditional. I mean, all of us sort of stayed home to a certain extent to have kids and we work from home. And and I think I read a book years ago that we can, I don't know, share on social called Cinderella Ate My Daughter. Have you heard of that book?
00:27:38
Speaker
It's a really easy read. It was written by two... women who were psychologists and they adopted a daughter and they just wanted, they said, we don't want to have any of this gender garbage like creeping in. And so they were like, we're going to try to raise this little girl as gender free as possible, not in a like non-binary way, the way we would talk about it now, but just, they're not going to have like princess toys or, and she said, what I realized is that the idea of gender is not only presented to kids in every way that
00:28:11
Speaker
possible from marketing to media to TV shows to just toys that you see in the grocery store. She said there's part of it that is very innate. You know, there's a time when girls just no matter what you do, they often do gravitate towards the girliest things they can find because they're trying to sort of establish their gender norms and Again, I'd be interested how some of this may change now that we're talking more about kids that are transgender and non-binary at a young age. A lot of parents will say that their kids who are transgender were just different from the jump.
00:28:48
Speaker
But for kids that identify as you know the gender to which they were assigned at birth, they just said there's no way to tease it apart. And so to your point, Caitlin, when you said,
00:29:00
Speaker
Annabelle, was it Annabelle that was, Eileen's older, right? No, Annabelle's older. Oh, so Eileen was saying about like, maybe boys are better at math. Like who knows where she got that. And it's terrifying to think that that's still just in the water. These preconceived notions about men and women and what they can and can't do. Cause you can obviously talk about it when you hear it, but they're just getting this, which that's where I get sort of discouraged.
00:29:24
Speaker
Callie, your kids are younger. Does this show up at all yet? Not a ton. i mean, yeah, we're still sort of in the the place of like we point things out when like the other day we were when I say the other day, it was like months ago. you know how you're like the other day. it was like months ago.
00:29:43
Speaker
We were driving. And for whatever reason, my son was mentioned that he noticed that all the babysitters we've ever had are women. And then so he was like, is it only women that could be babysitters?
00:29:54
Speaker
And so, you know, for me, that was just a time when I could be like, you're right. That, you know, that's a good, that is ah an interesting thing that you notice that all of the women we've had are babysitters in general. Most babysitters are women. I mean, statistically they are, but that doesn't mean that a man can't be a babysitter.
00:30:08
Speaker
It's just that there are more women and that's what we've had. So that's sort of how it's come up. He came home from school once now that we're into elementary. I feel like we're getting more of this sort of stuff seeping in. that Obviously, he's hearing like on the schoolyard, whatever.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I forget it was a similar, maybe it was construction. It was something similar. And he mentioned that more men tend to have that job. And I and then he immediately I think it was maybe from the babysitter conversation was like, it's not that women can't do it, just the more men choose to do it.
00:30:39
Speaker
And so we've sort of just used that time to sort of that's sort of where we are. i mean, we're not in the place of talking about it really super deep. It's just been feel like this is we've had this discussion on multiple other topics of like touching on it as it comes up.
00:30:53
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, but I love that he's graduated from the that's for boys and that's for like that's not part of his brain. Not really, no. And I know that he's heard it because we've we've had those discussions. Like he's also had, we've had discussions literally about like long hair.
00:31:07
Speaker
You know what I mean? Where he's, yeah. Where he's like, usually women have long hair, but you know, he knows a boy that has long hair. He's like, sometimes boys have, you know, so that's sort of where we are. And I mean, that's kind of how I try to,
00:31:18
Speaker
approach it in general is that like that may be a something that boys oh like we were painting our nails once I was painting my nails Finley wanted to paint her nails and then Miles wanted to paint his nails and the discussion came up that typically it's women we notice that women paint their nails but sometimes boys do and if you want to paint your nails you can paint your nails like it came up sort of like that it's just sort of we're just observing it but yeah I mean he hasn't really ever it's never been like that's just for women we tend to be like You're right. I mean, in general, I mean, we had the same discussion, like when we talked about modern families that we've been like, most of the families we know are moms and dads, but that's not how all of the families are.
00:31:54
Speaker
And so we kind of just tried to do it as like an observation based thing and like, look at the things that are the same and look at the things that are different. But what I love about that, and it gives me hope for this younger generation is that, you know, I think At its very core, the notion that you know there was a reason that we needed to have a feminist movement was because women were othered.
00:32:17
Speaker
They were somehow deemed different, and in that difference, they were also deemed less than. And so there was a point when women had to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, time out. Not only are we not less than, we are just as capable of and deter and deserving of x y and z And so...
00:32:35
Speaker
you know, I think there's always going to be gender differences. And so I'm trying to train my brain not to look at gender differences as like the root of all evils and that, but it's, it's the idea that a difference doesn't have to be a lesson or an othering of, and I love that as for me, that's a helpful reminder that, you know, there's always gonna be differences, but that's not a Bad thing if we don't let it per se.
00:33:02
Speaker
And I think my, you know, for me, it's always, yeah, I mean, I don't i don't ever want to look at differences as is a bad thing. And I don't think that necessarily there being differences between men and women. Like, I don't, to me, that's not the problem. It's the equality. Exactly.
00:33:16
Speaker
That's the problem. So, you know, I think that there are differences in general. And I think that, you ah you know, ah as I continue to raise my boys and my girls, depending on what differences they have. I mean, I have ah a boy that's a very sensitive boy, and this is ah probably a whole nother topic.
00:33:33
Speaker
But I've had multiple people be like, you got toughen them up. You know, and that's no, I don't. I mean, why can't we have sensitive men? So, you know, that's a whole nother side of it. But I think it's that same idea still of, you know, as I raise boys and girls, they're going to have differences, whether they're gender specific differences or not. And it's just learning what your differences are, learning how you are as a person. And then, you know, following those things that are your, um,
00:33:58
Speaker
want to say your pros, but that's not, you know, the thing, the qualities of yours that you enjoy are the qualities of yours that are your strengths and knowing what your weaknesses are. And that's kind of how I approach it. Yeah. And I think to backpedal, because I think I, my, my,
00:34:14
Speaker
words were ahead of my brain. i don't think there's anything wrong in the differences too, but I do think that there was a time when girls were really presented as like, this is what you need to do.
00:34:25
Speaker
yeah And for me, that was problematic. And so, you know, the idea of the, that, you know, Cinderella ate my daughter, it wasn't that they didn't want their daughter to have like a gendered world. I just think that they were sort of one step ahead of it. And they wanted this little girl to not feel like she had to fall into whatever at the time was like, oh yeah, that's what, that's the girl toy section.
00:34:48
Speaker
That's for you. Yes. Megan, how about you? You have girls and boys, so you're, and they're older. Yes. So Callie, it's funny because in my house, out of all three of my children, the most sensitive one is my son.
00:35:02
Speaker
And same thing. I've gotten that comment so many times, like even from a assist like sisters and family, like he's he's he's very sensitive. And I'm like, yeah, that it is what it is. you can't change it.
00:35:13
Speaker
You know, like that's who he is. I don't think it's bad. I mean, that's right. yeah Yeah. I'm not trying to cut you off, but I hate that, that people, because he's a boy, that's a bad thing. Like, I think it's a beautiful thing that he can be a sensitive man. Like, I think that that's, yes.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, the flip side of the girls who are just raging biatches and everything. like, oh, she needs to be, like, calmer. And it's like, no, no. She's standing up for herself. That's amazing. and Yeah. No. And it's funny, too. So we have the communion and on Saturday, and he's all stressed out because he tried the host during the rehearsal, and he hated the way it tasted. Okay? Like – had it came home in tears and I was like, whoa, like this is, we don't have to be upset about this. It's okay. And the girls are like, it tastes so good. Like, how do you not like it?
00:35:59
Speaker
And he's like, I don't like the way it tastes. I'm so nervous. And you know, and we have a rehearsal later on for it and he's all stressed out about the taste of it. I would have never thought that that would come up, but I'm just like trying to like, you know,
00:36:13
Speaker
it it i And I was telling him this morning at the bus stop, like, it's just kind of like a toast. Like, it's just a toast or a little bake like a little piece. just you Just put it in and you'll be fine.
00:36:23
Speaker
Having three children, two girls and a boy, and I do have to sit to say in today's society, it's definitely changed from the way we grew up, like completely. The corporate work world from when I worked And it, gosh, 15 years ago, i felt like all the upper and high level were definitely men. There was a few women.
Feminism in Education with Chrissy
00:36:48
Speaker
So i feel like today the way, you know, I raise my kids is just, you know, you can be and do career-wise anything you want. You put your mind to it. You can be a CEO of a company. If you want to be a soccer player, if you want to be a fashion designer, you can be the highest level.
00:37:07
Speaker
You know, just put your mind to it work hard. And I feel like they don't really see those differences too much just because, i don't know, it's changed, I feel like, a lot from...
00:37:20
Speaker
When we grew up. So, I mean, it's definitely come up here and there with male, female, but, you know, I just reassure them. One of my girls is like, oh, you know, I shouldn't apply for that job because guy has it now. I'd be like, no, you can do a better job than he can do. Apply, you know, i just keep reassuring and just telling them to be the best they could be.
00:37:42
Speaker
today in the future. And yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think in our house, for me, when I think about feminism, it really is the, like I said before, the othering of women and the insistence that women sort of need to be over in this category. And so there's sort of the natural like de- gendering of things that I try to introduce. So the idea that there's not like a girl job and a boy job. I mean, that would never be my language, but I do think there's preconceptions about it.
00:38:15
Speaker
And that's certainly the way my marriage is. I mean, my husband doesn't use the power tools that I do. And so that's not something we're talking about, but it's something that they're seeing. So hopefully that is showing them that there's not like categories the way I think we grew up with.
00:38:32
Speaker
I certainly don't assume anything about when they get older. I don't assume that they're going to get married. I don't assume that they're going to have kids. I don't assume that they're going to be with someone of the same gender. You know, I certainly love being a mother and a couple of my kids are already excited about that. And I said, well, if you choose to have kids, I'll I have a bunch of them. I really, i love it. It's been the best thing I've ever done.
00:38:54
Speaker
You know, I don't talk about weight or beauty. I don't talk about sort of the aspirational notion that of like girls needing to be pretty whatever we sort of grew up with just in the water. I really try to bring in books and characters and movies that have really strong and powered forthcoming girls.
00:39:14
Speaker
I think the hardest thing for me with my own kids in particular is when They're asserting themselves and being confrontational to treat them the same way that I would treat my boys when they're being but like assertive and speaking up for themselves.
00:39:29
Speaker
And I find that you know it's just subconscious. I sometimes react to it differently and I have to be like, no, no, no. That's like she's doing a great job. It is real annoying right now, but she is sticking up for herself and she's telling me what she wants and I just got to go with it.
00:39:43
Speaker
um Another thing that we do that I found is interesting is that the girls, if we're having like a movie night, we can put on any movie and the girls are like, that's fine. If we were to put on like Barbie or Wicked, the boys, all of a sudden it's like, oh no.
00:39:57
Speaker
And so that i that I cut that off immediately. We are watching any movie because I do think that we ask our girls a lot of times to sort of do the more...
00:40:09
Speaker
boy type stuff. And the minute we do girl type stuff with the boys, I mean, here I am gendering things, but you know what i mean? I think that is something that with my boys that I'm conscious of is that if like, if the girls are doing it, you're doing it.
00:40:20
Speaker
So it's not just a one way street as far as like empowering my girls. It's also teaching the boys that they're not always going to have the power. So I guess those are some of the things. I mean, i don't know. It's hard because I grew up in a family with very traditional gender. Like my dad learned how to cook during COVID because my mother was so annoyed that she was cooking every night. So I didn't grow up in a world where, i mean, my mother was definitely the boss and respected. So it's not like she was waiting for him with a martini at the front door, but You know, he was the one who went to work every day and she stayed home and it was just traditional. So it's, I don't know. I don't have all the answers, but I do think about it a lot. I thought it was a good question from this listener.
00:41:01
Speaker
Well, and I think the one thing too, that the listener said at the end that when you, when we were writing up the notes that stood out to me that I have thought about a lot was she was talking about how she has two daughters and how her two daughters sort of looked down on motherhood a little bit um as like not a, um like not good enough, you know? And so that narrative worries me a little bit because I have seen that um come out of this.
00:41:27
Speaker
And you know To me, when I look at motherhood, I mean, motherhood's the strongest thing that I have ever done. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. has shaped me the most. um I'm very proud of my career. I'm proud of what I've done.
00:41:40
Speaker
But to me, that is, it's the best thing that I've ever done. And so the fact that, you know, i ah want to be careful the way that I talk to my children, that of course you can do everything. And I do want you to aspire to a career, but that um motherhood is not like giving up on that. And this is probably...
00:41:56
Speaker
could be its own conversation as well. But I think that there's something, you have to be sort of careful with that too. I have a friend who is turning 40 very soon and she's not married. She wants children.
00:42:09
Speaker
And she talks about it. She was like, you know, I feel like I followed the path that I was supposed to. Everyone said, you know, you're a woman and you can go and you can get a job. And she did. And she got her master's and she has a great job. And she was like, but I wish that I was a mom and I feel like I've missed my window.
00:42:24
Speaker
and so i feel like there is that that piece that's in there a little bit as well, where she did do that. She did whatever she could do. And I think that's just a tricky part of being a woman is that always that always juggle a balancing career and motherhood And so i'm I'm careful not to ever make it look like motherhood is something that that is that you're giving, you know, I mean, you do give up something for motherhood, but there is that that sort of balance to it as well. And I have seen that more and more. I mean, I'll never forget a conversation I had with my sister in law when she had her first child.
00:42:57
Speaker
And she was like, I thought I was going to hate it. And I thought it was going to be horrible because of the narrative that social media makes motherhood. you know, brings a brow about motherhood. And she's like, but this is like, great. Like, I love this. I love having my son. And so I worry about that, that side of it and that piece of it and what, you you know, girls are hearing.
00:43:15
Speaker
So, and I thought it was interesting because she was talking about in the, in the viewer question that she was talking about feminism and how, you know, how she sort of feels a little bummed that her daughters, you know, look at her and her, her choice to be a mother and stay home, be a mother and sort of like look down on it.
00:43:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's, we I already got painted myself into a corner a little bit at the beginning because it's like it's hard to talk about the idea of equality and having the same opportunity and then also acknowledging the fundamental differences. that like it It sounds like you're talking about two different things, but it's obviously it's not. you know Different is not de doesn't mean...
00:44:01
Speaker
unequal, but yeah I don't know. It's, it's conflict for just what you're saying. You know, yeah I do feel like women have been given a little bit of, I don't know the word that I'm looking for. It's like, we're told we can do whatever we want to do that we can aspire to any career. But then once we, and we've talked about this in past episodes, then we get to the point of being a ah mother and we may have to step back from that in order to do that in order to raise our children or when they're really little. And so I feel like I haven't decided how I'm going approach it yet, but I feel like there is this conflicting narrative that we're giving to women. You you were saying something that I had wanted to mention, and it's talking about certain things that are going to end up shaping my children's beliefs about the world.
00:44:43
Speaker
And I have some very strong feminists in my life who are you know around my daughters, and I'm so thankful for them. But I also have to interject myself sometimes and be like, please be careful what you're saying, because I don't want my children...
00:44:59
Speaker
to think that what you just said is true for everything. So like, if there's one bad male, it doesn't mean all now men are bad.
00:45:10
Speaker
If there's one bad situation that happens and happens in a workplace, it doesn't mean that's always gonna happen in a workplace. Well, it's also the idea that somehow Like if if you are someone who wants to, your dream in life is to be a mom and be at home, like that's not, not feminine.
00:45:29
Speaker
Like there's, there's no less feminism in that than your friend who is like made it to the top of the food chain and wants to have kids. Like, yeah I think that's sort of what a lot of you know women in the past have been saying is that there's no one way to be a feminist. It's just to believe that there's women are not less than, women deserve the right to choose any which way. And you know for each of us, that's going to look at a little different because obviously we've navigated our own path and we can't help but you know, project that onto others. But it's, it's tricky. You know, it's like you find yourself in the sort of the dichotomy of like, you can be strong, but also like being a stay at home mom and nurturing kids is the best. Like, it's very hard to talk about things without and ignoring the gray area. Cause that's but like, that's the meat of it right there in the middle.
00:46:18
Speaker
My, my girls have definitely each said to me at different time periods, ah So like, what do you do? Like, you're you're just a mom. Like, you know, like, what do you do for work? And this was like, you know, now I, my, you know, content creation and streams of income doing that obviously pay, like I joke, Ava's Starbucks bill.
00:46:40
Speaker
But... I said to like, they were like, what did you do before you had kids? It was almost like all you are is a mom. And I'm like, you know, at that time I was like, well, I'm home now, but you know, I could go back to the fashion industry or do this or do that. But like, they almost are kind of like, what do you do? Like, it was kind of like, because i wasn't at a corporate job every day, it was like in in home with them. It was kind of like being a mom is like nothing.
00:47:09
Speaker
Yeah, we definitely have work to do as far as our opinions. Yeah. So it was kind of like they both have definitely said it to me and I had to like explain things to them. and But yeah, even now too sometimes I feel like certain – like even doing what we do.
00:47:25
Speaker
Like I had this one ah person say to me, well, digital creator, like the same thing. Well, what do you even do? What is that even like? Almost like roll eyes. And I was kind of like – listen, this is what I choose to do while I'm home with my kids. You don't have to do it. It's all good. But like, i don't know. She was almost like, oh, like that's what you do. And again, I don't, if I'm happy in my life and doing what i want to do to each their own.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah. I always think it's interesting. Oh, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, if if a man was to be like, as to who's going to be like, well, that's all you do. You're just a dad. You're just a,
00:48:05
Speaker
you're just a content creator guy. and No, if someone was like, I'm a stay at home dad, everyone just is this a round of applause. Wow. What did you sacrifice? But really actually cool.
00:48:17
Speaker
Good for you that he did that. It doesn't need to be mocked. You know, no one should be mocking anybody's choice of career unless it's something like vulgar, but like, still not going mock you. It's not going to advise my kids to do that. What were you going to say, Callie?
00:48:33
Speaker
I don't remember. I literally just was thinking, I was listening to what you're saying and then I, and then I lost it. About being a content creator or, you know, you having your successful YouTube channel.
00:48:43
Speaker
Do people ever make comments to you like, oh, yes, yeah. Yeah, well, so yeah, being a content creator, I think it's funny as as a woman that how many times people have assumed that I can do this because my husband makes money, but that that is the assumption that I can, I mean, how many, I've i have hit that wall many many, many, many, many times. Oh, you can do that because your husband makes the money. It must be nice to have a husband that pays the bills so that you can have that job.
00:49:08
Speaker
That would not happen, I'm sure, if my husband was the one of the YouTube channel. I don't think people would be saying that. Oh, you're so lucky you have a wife that makes money. But it's just that's part of the like subversive, like that's the icky part of it. Because like I couldn't be doing this if my husband, but also like we wouldn't have five kids.
00:49:24
Speaker
Like something's got to give. So it's, you know, the assumption. Yeah, that's where it gets. Yeah. You know, I think sometimes women are our own worst enemies. You know, we're not doing a lot to like move the needle, but.
00:49:40
Speaker
No, yeah totally true. It's a meaty, it's a meaty topic. I certainly talk about this all the time. We probably have to move on because yes it's a lot. We'll go forever. Yeah. And we don't have the solution, but um I am hoping to get a hold of, um i love having our new guests. I'm hoping to get a hold of my friend, k Chrissy. I'm not going to make, I'm going to make her pronounce her last name because I always fumble it, but she, she's now an educational consultant, but she used to be the headmaster at a local school. And I just feel like she might have an interesting take on just the idea of sort of gender roles and the intersection with feminism and sort of what she saw in the classroom. She is a parent also. So
00:50:19
Speaker
That I think will be a conversation that might lend itself to this. so that's who we're going to hear from next.
00:50:29
Speaker
I refuse to pronounce your last name on the podcast when I introduced you. i was like, to make her tell us her last name because I always, you've told me a hundred times and I always get it wrong. But then maybe quickly say what your credentials, background, all of that. Because you, i mean, you're a rock star and you could talk to a hundred things, but I just think your experience in a school And as a mom to boys, because I think we sometimes look at feminism as like a girl mom type thing. So those were two reasons that I was like, I think Chrissy would be really good for this.
00:51:01
Speaker
Chrissy Katchney is how you say the last name. um And I always tell people not to worry about it as a sidebar, um because when I met my husband, I couldn't figure it out either. And that was before social media, when you had to look up somebody's name in college, like in a book.
00:51:15
Speaker
yes And I couldn't figure out the last name and then I couldn't figure out the first name either. So I had to wait until I got back to class to see him again. ah Can you record this for me? Yeah. And so my background. So I started out many moons ago focusing on special education and through that found a passion in literacy in particular and autism, which are very different, but they are two through lines throughout my entire career.
00:51:40
Speaker
um After starting out in traditional public school, special education and regular education, decided to pursue a master's in literacy and a ah another master's later on in clinical psychology with a focus on education.
00:51:54
Speaker
And since then have worked in public and independent schools in a variety of roles, classroom teacher, learning literacy specialists, went to the dark side of administration. um During COVID.
00:52:06
Speaker
During COVID. um Yeah, it was a journey. But I was in a special place. And there's lots of positives that I can say came out of that whole experience, even in the chaos of it. And and now I work as an educational consultant, I say, and a non-legal advocate, supporting families navigate both independent and public school around inclusivity, around understanding learning and social emotional needs.
00:52:31
Speaker
And I'm really fortunate to have some school communities invite me in to work with their faculty and to help them develop programming around inclusivity with social emotional and academic learning.
00:52:42
Speaker
That's amazing. And your mom to boys, your boy mom. Three boys. i love being a boy mom, especially growing up. I'm one of three girls. So I think that's the other thing that's interesting. I have this very two like I have my lived experiences like growing up in like girl world and I was not very girlish in the traditional sense anyway. And then having boy world now and realizing, you know, all of the things. It's just, it's not, it's not black and white in any way. So I have, we're going to make this quick, but I have three questions for you. I sent them to you yesterday, so they shouldn't be completely out of left field.
00:53:16
Speaker
um And the first one is like a big giant question that'll be hard to answer quickly, but we talked about what feminism meant to us. And it was sort of an interesting conversation because we're all different ages and, you know, we're all parents. But did anything specific come up for you when you saw that, what feminism means to you?
00:53:35
Speaker
You know, i think what was interesting, a couple words came to mind. Fairness, dignity. What was the other one? The other one was, um hold on, it looks kind of me. Oh, an opportunity.
00:53:48
Speaker
Like just the idea that opportunity, you know having opportunity be equal, I guess. So those are the three like big things that came to mind. I love that.
00:53:59
Speaker
I am interested, and you don't have to answer this as a school principal, but I'm just thinking of sort of the highest role that you played in academia. How did that play out in your interaction with kids? So we talked about a lot of you know how we as parents bring in feminism, but I'm curious what your thoughts are as far as feminism and sort of a larger scope or a more specific scope of academia. And I guess now you're a consultant, so either way you want to answer it.
00:54:26
Speaker
No, I am going to twist the question a little bit because I think the way when I was reflecting on this, you know, i was, I'm fortunate. I was in education, like in the traditional sense for over 20 years.
00:54:38
Speaker
And my, and I was also really, i worked hard. It may be connected to some of what we're talking about, but I also became and administrator at 29. And so I think inherently, and I didn't have kids then.
00:54:52
Speaker
So how I was showing up then, and then how I've showed up Once I became a mom and then also as I have gotten older, it's it's it's really, there's been a range. So I think.
00:55:03
Speaker
early on, and I think, well, let me start with like a through line. So I think inclusive curriculum has always been a big passion of mine, I think inherently just because of my work in special education. And I think as I got older, as I became ah leader, and it's still in a lot of instances, a very male dominant, you know, sort of, you know, there were many rooms I was in at 29 and continue to be in where it's a lot of men who are making the decisions. And so I think Part of what I was thinking about in those moments too is how am I going to show up? How am I going students seeing me show up and what are they seeing when what comes out of those kinds of situations?
00:55:39
Speaker
And I think that focus was much higher level. And then I want to say, I think where I'm happy to see that it's evolved too is that when I really, you know, try to think about things beyond curriculum, try to think about things beyond sort of the experiences students were having, you know, I think there's a lot of like the traditional, like make sure STEM's available to everybody, make sure that there's opportunity for leadership that feels equal.
00:55:59
Speaker
I found that I have learned the power in some of it is in a lot of the smaller moments I would have with students one-on-one, both boys and girls, you know, whether it's something that they have a particular interest.
00:56:11
Speaker
And I was able to help support them in that and push it further. Students who hit a tricky moment and they were trying to navigate it and it was letting everybody who was having a moment understand that vulnerability isn't a bad thing.
00:56:23
Speaker
So I think some of those things that are like underleaf that idea of like fairness and dignity, it's just, it's helping humans be humans, if that makes sense. Yeah. Can I seep into the mom world now? Yeah.
00:56:34
Speaker
Okay. Cause so there's like ah years and years of experience with all like, Families being so generous and sharing their humans with me and I get to play a
Personal Highs, Lows, and Environmental Musings
00:56:43
Speaker
role in it. And then there's these three kiddos that are mine, my genetics, my husband's genetics, their grandparents' genetics. And I'm sure it's similar in your house, like whatever the number of kids, like they could not all be more different than one another. Yes.
00:56:54
Speaker
Yeah. And so, ah you know, i I don't often get asked to talk about this specifically. There's so many other things that come up that people are like, we want your expertise here, here, and here. And so part of the reason why I was excited is the school side of things.
00:57:08
Speaker
But in my own house, it has been like my own like human study with how these three boys are becoming and finding themselves. you know I think that some of the through lines are definitely like,
00:57:23
Speaker
we we talk about our emotions. Like, you know, we, the whole like, and you relate to this, the whole like, when you're in psychology or social work, like the name it to tame it. Yes. Okay. So like, that's like a mantra in our house in a way, but at the same time, not because it's about feminism, not because it's about being a boy or a girl, but just because like, that's what we do as humans. But then for example, like I have a kiddo who one of his favorite activities to do and is he's crocheted.
00:57:52
Speaker
Like that's his like calming moment. And that's where he has more woobly things all put together. We did one, he did one and I did one, you know, and then it just took off. Like it was something that he was curious about. And so I think it's, I have found it just really exciting to help them lean into the things and, you know, have a kiddo who loves to cook, you know, like I think, and it's not because I'm saying like, oh, this is something that is, is you know,
00:58:21
Speaker
gender specific. It's just leaning into their interests, leaning into the things that they're curious about. And then I think on the flip side, looking at each of them, there are things where they may feel more vulnerable in other areas.
00:58:36
Speaker
um And so it's helping to support them to understand it's okay to feel vulnerable in those areas and how to lean into them still. Yeah. i I have found both in my own parenting, but also just in as an observer of society, that it is we are more comfortable encouraging girls to step into roles that are more traditionally labeled as sort of more masculine or, you know, girl power and girls can do anything. And I think we're still working on ways to really encourage and nurture our boys when they toggle into the realm of, quote, more sort of
00:59:16
Speaker
female, whether it's emotions or feelings or presentation or like getting your nails done. And I think the generation below us, the lines are even blurrier, which is just wonderful. I mean, you see boys that are, you know, captain of the football team, but also showing up at the prom wearing like a skirt because they're like, it was cool. Why not?
00:59:34
Speaker
I am encouraged to see more of that, but that You know i think we're in that generation that's straddling it a little bit. So I, with my boys, that is something I think about a lot. and The other thing i I think I want to just acknowledge I thought about when you shared the topic and these questions and the school side of things real quickly is that I've thought about, and we talk about this in our house too, about the educational settings that my kids have been able to be in, either because of location of where we lived or where I have worked.
01:00:03
Speaker
And there's so much about it that also is about access, you know, going back to that opportunity piece. And so I think it's one of those things that is, you know, just by a nature, you know, I have fun going into high school next year and there are electives like cooking, you know, or like human development and getting to, you know, volunteer in a preschool setting that's within the high school. Like I know that there's a privilege behind the situations that they've been in that, you know, isn't necessarily consistently happening everywhere. And so I think I just acknowledge it because I know that there's a lot of parents who are working really hard for that opportunity piece and, you know, having conversations around how communities can do better, I think is also good.
01:00:47
Speaker
Yes. Yes.
01:00:51
Speaker
And we're back. Let's move on to pits and peaks. ah Who wants to start? Megan, do you have a pit or a peak? I have a peak. I had a fun experience at Bingo Loco. I know Caitlin.
01:01:07
Speaker
I didn't go, but you were down the street from my house and you could have come and visited me. So I'm little slutty. It looked so ah Yeah, it was fun. And it was like, so they play music and then you check the the box and that's how like the bingo works.
01:01:23
Speaker
It's not fun. Yeah. So it's like a Britney Spears song plays and it's on your card. That's how you check it. And they gave like one of the prizes was an air fryer. So wait, you have to listen to the whole song before you can go on to the next?
01:01:36
Speaker
Just c clips. They play clips and everyone's like dancing and yeah, it was a fun time. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's your peak. That's my peak. Okay. Bingo loco.
01:01:47
Speaker
That was great. What about you, Caitlin? Hit her a peak. it's a peak. Okay. You guys know my obsession with animals, right? Sure. I love to see animals in the wild.
01:01:59
Speaker
I have been driving the same road home from yoga for four years. It is known for this certain animal that lives out there. And I've never seen one until last night.
01:02:10
Speaker
I saw a bear. I just saw a big fat bear. He was just eating flowers next to a barn. And I almost missed it because I was busy looking at the lady who was stopped in the middle of the road thinking, is this a setup? Am I about to get murdered?
01:02:26
Speaker
And then I slowed down and looked at her and she's like pointing and I saw, here he was. And it was great. Do you think it was the bear that was running around at the mall? Did you see that? know, saw that. Best Farms Mall, Charlotte, where we were for the news thing. I don't think he made it down all the way to Hampton.
01:02:44
Speaker
What color was he? He was a black bear. Yeah. Those ones are not as mean. They're friendly. Yeah. I think those you can startle and they'll run away. He ended up getting startled because I turned my car around to go back and try to get like to actually photo myself and he was already gone. I need to go eat something else. I thought you were going to say a deer, but a bear is even better. I see deer all the time now. And this bear was like bucket list.
01:03:10
Speaker
That's cool. That's cool. Callie, do you have a pit or a peek? I had written down ah peak, but I had a pit happen this morning. ah had to take my dog to the... So our dog is... How that damn dog? like We have like such a lemon of a dog.
01:03:24
Speaker
So she's got allergies, you know? jesus Yeah. And so she has to be on these... And she gets them so horrible that she scratches herself to the point of bleeding.
01:03:34
Speaker
So like we have to put her on medication. Yeah. And we were out of the medication. And now the vets have this like choke hold on you where that you call for the medication. They're like, she's due for her physical. I'm like, it's a dog. So you take the dog in for the physical. And she's like due for some shot and then some other thing. And then I was out of flea stuff. So i was like, yeah, give me the flea stuff.
01:03:53
Speaker
And now the dog has chronic dry eye. i'm like.
01:04:00
Speaker
That sounds like a human disease. yeah So now they, it's like, now I'm going doggy eye drops. I don't know. Like $800 later. Dog eye drops. You just have to like.
01:04:12
Speaker
I'm not even sure. i didn't even ask. I was like, just put it in the bag and let me get out of here. i just want my allergy medicine. Dog is itching herself. She's bleeding. I'm like, just give me, i just want to get out of here with allergy medicine.
01:04:24
Speaker
But they're like, oh, let me tack on this blah, blah, blah, blah whatever. So anyways, that was my pit. Wait, Callie, all I'm picturing is that video clip we have to share where Olive's like in the morning, like sitting in front of the team.
01:04:39
Speaker
Right? That's why she had dry eyes. Maybe she had dry eyes then and you just didn't know it yet. Chronic dry eyes. Yep. Just one more thing. I've got like eight bottles and pills and ah this dog has more things than my four children combined. So yeah.
01:04:56
Speaker
That's fun. yeah Well, I have a pit too. We just got back from spring break. It's that time of year in Connecticut and we can finally start focusing on the gardens and the plants. So I was outside just checking on things and I walked out on our lawn.
01:05:09
Speaker
Listen, this is not the chapter of my life where I've ever really given a shit about our lawn. It's not been great. It is so embarrassingly gross right now. the deer have eaten it. There's like weed like weeds that are not just like crabgrass, like weeds that need to be in the woods type things like popping up.
01:05:26
Speaker
And it's so bad that like now I have to figure out how do you fix a lawn. And that is a community of people that I don't need to be like listening to because it's just obsessive.
01:05:36
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like there's no gray, speaking of no gray area, like there's no one who's like, I just want my lawn to be okay. Everyone wants it to be Like, perfect. So I fear that I've opened a can of worms that I don't really want to be opening, but I have to. It's too gross.
01:05:52
Speaker
that You know, there's like the the whole new movement of people who are having like they're letting themselves have wild lawns for the like bees and it's supposed to be good for the ecosystem. Listen, if I were unmarried or something unfortunate happens to Michael and I'm alone, that would be.
01:06:05
Speaker
I will just do that. I'll be like, yeah, it's good for the bees because I have just no desire to do anything in a lawn. But your kids are outside. What is it? 10,000 hours a year. You need a lawn. They just can go through the, they can pollinate with yeah or whatever.
01:06:19
Speaker
My parents just got in a fight about that, by the way, with the bees. My mom wanted my dad to stop his treatments because of the bees. And my dad was like over my dead body. i know I'm telling you, the bees have a real good PR team because they are.
01:06:34
Speaker
We're all very worried about them. The bees and the bats are really front of mind for a lot of folks.
Episode Wrap-Up and Canine Chaos
01:06:39
Speaker
All right, guys. Well, this, I feel like, has been a rocky episode. It hasn't been our smoothest, but we got there.
01:06:44
Speaker
um We started with animals. We ended with animals. Damn dogs. good Yeah, the damn dogs. That's going to be the title of our episode, damn dogs. Thank you to everyone who is always so sweet about leaving us comments on both our social media and YouTube, and even on the website. That's how we got the whole topic for today's episode, so thank you. Until next time, everyone.
01:07:05
Speaker
bye Bye. I'm not letting her out of her crate either. I've tried, written down the words to say, it is time, I've been waiting five days to explain how you make me feel inside, baby.