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How to Discuss Modern Families and Differences with Our Kids
611 Plays2 days ago
In this funny and thoughtful episode of Just 4 Moms, Charlotte and the crew explore how to talk with kids about the many shapes families can take today. From forgetting homework to teaching toddlers catchphrases, the mom fails are real—but so are the heartwarming lessons. Charlotte interviews interior designer Brian Patrick Flynn, who shares his experience raising a daughter with his husband, Hollis. They discuss paperwork hurdles, inclusive language, and why love—not structure—defines a family. The moms reflect on their own approaches to conversations about nontraditional families and the importance of openness, empathy, and representation. Plus, it’s all wrapped up with Peaks and Pits, where sports, trips, and tummy bugs make an appearance!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, but totally totally off just really fast because I know we're limited on time. Hold on, Megan. Megan. Yeah. I think we need to turn you down a little bit. i Let me see.
00:00:12
Speaker
She's caffeinated. She's ready. She's ready. I'm still a little sensitive to the world right now. How's that? Is that better? i think so.
00:00:23
Speaker
think so. Because I've gotten yelled at before that I need to sit closer. So I was like, but if this is good. Welcome to Just For Moms. I'm Charlotte. I'm Caitlin. I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner.
Technical Glitches and Humor
00:00:42
Speaker
Again, no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. things I'll plan, the things I would say, now I get rambling.
00:00:53
Speaker
Wait, hold on. What kind of did what I'm looking at mine. Was this my chat? What kind of jobs do you have for your kids around the house? That's what I wrote. and and yeah but yeah i i read that and I thought it was yours, Caitlin. And I was like, oh, that's a good question. I could have.
00:01:16
Speaker
I did not. That is not my question. Okay, great.
00:01:22
Speaker
I know. I was like... I love when I do that. It's like an outer body experience. Yeah. Today I showed up for my dentist appointment and they're like, you don't have a dentist appointment today. And i was like, yes, I do. You text me. And I showed them your text and it was response C to confirm and P to call back.
00:01:40
Speaker
And I must have accidentally hit P instead of C. But nobody called me. She was like, yeah. She's like, you left it you left us a message. And now I'm like, did I... like back out and then call the dentist and be like, I'm not coming.
00:01:55
Speaker
i i just don't understand. So I understand this. Like maybe you wrote that. Maybe we all
Transition to Main Discussion Topics
00:02:00
Speaker
blacked out. All right. Should we should we officially get started? Yes. Sorry. um Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Just for Moms.
00:02:08
Speaker
Roll call. Charlotte, now you guys go. Megan. Caitlin.
00:02:17
Speaker
We're going to get it. We're going to get it one week. Yeah. So we were just laughing. Maybe I'll leave it in, but maybe I won't. I wrote like a whole chat conversation that I just blacked out and completely forgot. So I had asked the question to
Parenting Chores and Strategies
00:02:31
Speaker
start. What do you guys... Well, do first of all, do you guys have jobs for your kids around the house?
00:02:35
Speaker
Sort of. Yeah. Okay. What... I'm still trying to remember why I wrote this question. I think I was sitting at my kitchen counter. We have a job chart on the refrigerator. And the way we do it for our family is that there's four jobs.
00:02:49
Speaker
They are feed the dogs, deal with trash, load the dishwasher, empty the dishwasher. And they rotate through. And so I don't know. I must have been screaming at one of the kids about feed the dogs, do the dishes. And so that maybe that's why I wrote the question.
00:03:03
Speaker
So that's what we do for jobs. But what are I love hearing what other people do with their kids for jobs. Megan, what kind of jobs do you guys have? So they're very minimal and easy, and it is a hard time for them to achieve them without three reminders.
00:03:19
Speaker
Like as simple as it is from bringing the trash buckets from the garage to the end of the driveway, dragging three of them is part of everyone's take turns. And then the laundry, i fold them and put them at their door to each child that it belongs to.
00:03:37
Speaker
And their job is to put it away. And that's a very hard task. I usually, yeah. So I would say laundry and trash. Hardships. Yeah. Callie, what do your little ones do?
00:03:50
Speaker
So we don't have like necessarily weekly jobs where it's like they have to complete it by the end of the week. But we will do what I try to do is like family cleanup times because I feel like my kids are the age where it's like it's ah It's a modeling activity still a lot.
00:04:05
Speaker
So usually three nights a week after dinner, we do like family cleanup. And each kid, I'll be like, okay, Miles, you have to do the, we have like a wet back. And Finley, you have to clear the table and wipe it off.
00:04:16
Speaker
um So it's not as strict. I feel like for our kids, it's a lot of modeling. Some of my children are far more into it than others. I'll let you guess which ones are doing it and which ones are like in the corner or not doing it uh but it's nice it's sort of like a I try to with the kids when it comes to cleaning and chores I try to be a lot like these are things that we do because we all live in this house and we use the house and so we all have to do it so it's kind of that kumbaya like we all we all eat and we all live here and now it's time to clean up so that's where we are with our children six and under and what jobs they do love it Caitlin what do you do
00:04:51
Speaker
Well, I would like to say that we have a nice job chart, but that hasn't happened yet in our house. It's kind of, I have a, I always say if you're an active member of this family, you know, you have responsibilities aside from taking care of your own response, like your own personal things, such as cleaning up after yourself. ah There's other things that I ask them to do. They don't just do it on their own though. We're not really there yet, even though my oldest should be. And it's usually,
00:05:20
Speaker
clearing the table after dinner, helping make dinner. so i would love if they could help with the laundry, but the washing machine is too
Allowance Systems and Childhood Experiences
00:05:27
Speaker
deep. So none of them can get down inside of it. And that's something my oldest really, really wants to do, but she thinks she's going to fall in and never come out again.
00:05:35
Speaker
So pretty much the same as all of you. But as they get older, they're we're going to get stricter around here because we can't do this all by ourselves or I can't.
00:05:47
Speaker
I have a question. Did you all have a chart growing up where you would put the money of the jobs you completed and you might have cheated a little? No, I didn't get paid.
00:05:58
Speaker
was just told to do things and I had to do it. It was a legit chart that my mom ordered and laundry would be like 25 cents a load. Dishwasher would be like 50 cents and we would earn money that way.
00:06:13
Speaker
I do not have it presently in my household today, but I do remember- making some money off that chart growing up? Well, my husband just told me there's an app that you can download and, and set up an account and you can pay your children through this app and it uploads to a card so they could do chores and that's how they earn an allowance.
00:06:33
Speaker
And eventually I would like to have that when my children need money right now, if they need money for a book fair, they have to go to their piggy bank and get, you know, money from grandma or whatever.
00:06:44
Speaker
But as they get older and if they want to go out and get ice cream with friends, I would like them to have to earn it through something around the house. And and app sounds lovely. We have that app. And i if I recall, there was not a hefty, but there was a monthly fee.
00:06:58
Speaker
Oh, I don't like that. And we just weren't using it enough. And also, I guess I sort of feel like when it comes to jobs – I think we all sort of agree that jobs are just part of the deal. So they're not going to get paid to like empty the dishwasher and load the dishwasher. And, but you're right. There is a point when I started getting an allowance and I don't, don't remember what the conversation was or if I had to do anything above and beyond, you know, our daughter who's away for school, it makes sense for her to have an allowance, but she doesn't do anything to earn it.
00:07:29
Speaker
But she also has to pay for, if she wants to have ice cream at night, she has to pay for it from her allowance. So she's just not home to reap the benefits of our checkbook being open.
00:07:40
Speaker
So I don't know what else we would ask them to do if we were going to pay them. I mean, I like the idea of working for money, but we're not
Introducing 'Mom's Night Out' Podcast
00:07:45
Speaker
there yet. Right now, it's like you're part of the household and put away your milk. You should do it for free.
00:07:51
Speaker
It's part of living here. No we free rent. Yeah. Right.
00:07:57
Speaker
and Okay, let's move into pits and peaks. No, absolutely not. No. No. Let's move into mom fails.
00:08:12
Speaker
Oh, no, the snorting. Your confidence going into that. Oh, my God. She's ready to be done. She's like, at this episode, let's I'm over it.
00:08:24
Speaker
The brain fog has entered the chat. We're going to move into mom fails. And part of the reason I'm moving us on, I guess now is as good a time as any. We're trying on the podcast to bring in just some guests so that we have a larger community.
00:08:38
Speaker
They're a big part of our conversation. And so i think you've noticed we've already done two episodes where we speak to someone, right? We had Gal Practical and then we'd Sitter Connect. Those were So fun. We have someone else today that I spoke to, but we are also guys, we're making podcast friends.
00:08:54
Speaker
Is that a thing? So we wanted to talk to you guys about our newest podcast friends. They have a podcast called mom's night out. And I, I just have to say for the record that they've hacked the system and they've, they've done something that we've threatened to do, but we've never been able to pull it off.
00:09:11
Speaker
They just meet at night with a cocktail. So Yeah, I'm a little jealous. yeah Yeah, I know. Cheers to them. I want to come. yeah my bit out We had the best laid plans of like, yeah, we're going to be like day drinking. And then it always was like we had to get back to pick up kids and conference. It just never worked out. To day drink as a mom is tough. So they've certainly hacked the system.
00:09:37
Speaker
I listened to one of their episodes about conspiracy theories. And it's so funny to listen. i mean, it's the same dynamic where it's like, what are you talking to your girlfriends about? They just happen to actually have the cocktail.
00:09:49
Speaker
But it's so funny to listen to people just prattle on about silly things. I mean, we do a little bit of it and then we try to reel it in for our topic. But listening to them talk about conspiracy theories is ah theories It was, we talked about the drone once, right?
00:10:02
Speaker
Yes. We talked about like the moon landing. I didn't realize, i didn't fact check. I was doing my hair, but they said we haven't been to the moon since that infamous, like potentially controversial moon landing.
00:10:17
Speaker
And they were like, well, no, it didn't happen. If we've never been back, it's never happened. So now I have some notes to myself to go fact check, but they're great. We love them. You guys, which ones have you listened to?
00:10:28
Speaker
I was listening to The Birthday Party. Yeah, I listen just listened to that one this morning, too. Talking about, like, bad birthday. Well, they they were talking about this woman had a birthday party, and she had a list of instructions for people who came the birthday party, like, of things you could and couldn't buy for their child.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, and then and then they were talking about... ah That the only rule should be don't bring gifts. And then they segued into how you could sabotage someone that you don't really like by bringing a terrible gift to a birthday party. And then you find out that two of the friends on the show have done it to each other, like had their kids give each other terrible gifts.
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm cracking up. Yes, because my sister, my brother did this to me, gave me this like six foot long stuffed caterpillar for my Annabelle when she was two. And I'm like, what am I supposed to do with this thing?
00:11:18
Speaker
And they, my brother and my sister-in-law thought it was the funniest thing ever. So yeah, I could totally relate. My sister gave us, I'm sure you guys have had it, but you know, those microphones or ah megaphones where the voices change.
00:11:32
Speaker
yeah I mean, it's like giving someone a kazoo. yeah but i want to, I want to give my brother's kids like a hamster or something and see them get all annoyed. But I did love how Jenny, Katie, and Molly, did you see how they had their husbands on too and did some content with them as well in reels and episodes? Yeah. They just seem like a really fun group. And I feel like they're like my new, all of us, Instagram friends.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah. They seem like
Humorous Parenting Moments
00:11:58
Speaker
a good hang. So we wanted to mention them to our audience. You guys should go check them out. Mom's Night Out. You can find them wherever you get your podcasts and tell them we sent you because they're really fun and they have cocktails. So they're smarter than Yeah.
00:12:12
Speaker
they invite us we got our water not champagne like them i have some drink that i bought on tiktok that's apparently meant to like equalize my creatine levels or some god knows thing that's cool of megan's like what is it yeah you know me i'm down to try all that stuff right the pace how about the ad do you guys ever get the ad for that whitening paste that's supposed to be amazing, but I guess it's like a total flop. Did you try it, Caitlin?
00:12:40
Speaker
No, I saw it. I mean, i I looked very hard into the videos to see if it worked because I wanted it, but then I didn't buy it. Okay, same. Yeah. Okay. i Now let's move on to mom fails.
00:12:53
Speaker
Yes. I'll go first just because then I won't forget it. My mom fail is i have lost the thread on my kids homework. I used to be so confident that they're doing it. And if they're not, the teachers are gonna let me know.
00:13:04
Speaker
Turns out neither of those things is happening. So we've had to really crack the whip with some children in the Smith house, which is fun. Yes. Callie. What is your, do you have any mom fails? Mine is, I shared this on Instagram. I have my almost two year old. I find that I just, I keep talking to him in questions and like this poor child must be just exhausted by the end of the day.
00:13:26
Speaker
Like the other day he was, he was talking, he was like holding up his hands cause he had spilled something. and And I was like, did you spill something? Like, of course. He's like, mom, I spilled something. but And then I get over and it's ketchup. He has ketchup on his hands.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, do you have ketchup on your hands? Like, he's like, yes, mom, I have ketchup on my hands. Then I go, Do you want me to wipe it off? Like the poor kid is probably like, what the F like, can you please get this?
00:13:50
Speaker
So I don't know why i do it. And I'm trying to catch. I understand sometimes speaking in questions to toddlers is fine, but I feel like I'm overdoing it. And my child probably has like decision fatigue and I'm trying to fix it. You're in your Socratic era. Yeah.
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. Caitlin, do you have any? Yeah, it's on the toddler spectrum. So I like we're a no swearing household. I don't even like the I don't like to say shut up. We don't say stupid. We don't say hate.
00:14:19
Speaker
But I say, oh, my goodness, a lot. And now my toddler says it all the time. Everything is, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.
00:14:30
Speaker
And it's kind of becoming inappropriate. And she does it when we're out places. And it and she says it at the correct time. And so, you know, we kind of have to tell her not to say it because it does now sound not like a swear, but just,
00:14:44
Speaker
She shouldn't be saying it this much. You could just kind of, it's it's not that big of a deal. Whatever happened, Arbor, it's okay. So I need to stop. need to think of something else to say or just not be so dramatic.
00:14:55
Speaker
Jesus Christ, Arbor. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Megan, do you have any mom-failes? Yes, I let Gianna do an arts and crafts session in her bedroom on her desk versus coming downstairs to the kitchen table. And she wanted to paint seashells that had been in a crate from the basement. Number one, they smell nasty.
00:15:20
Speaker
Number two, she painted them
Non-Traditional Families and Diversity
00:15:23
Speaker
on a towel. But I feel like paint got more on her desk than on the shelves. And she's 12. I love she's very good at arts and crafts.
00:15:31
Speaker
But I had to clean up a lot. She did help. And then number three, seashells, they get like, you know, when they break, there's like white little particles all over the place. So it was all on the carpet.
00:15:42
Speaker
And again, I'm glad she wasn't on the screen. So I was trying to have some patience, but I do not like arts and crafts sessions in our, the children's bedrooms. I prefer them to be at the kitchen table.
00:15:56
Speaker
where I feel like the mess is a little manageable more manageable. Sure. There's a creep factor for sure. and Yes. Okay. So let's move into our topic. The topic today i chose because I think, so the topic is how do you talk to your children ah about sort of non-traditional families, non-nuclear families?
00:16:17
Speaker
So the idea that a family, and this is, I'll give some data on this because it's interesting how much this has changed. So like 25 years ago, families were quite often a mother, ah father, and then the child. And as we all know, that is just not the case anymore. There's so many differences.
00:16:35
Speaker
All of us have sort of traditional families. And so that's what our kids have seen. But I think as a parent, it's really important to sort of normalize and discuss all the different iterations that might be a family. So I sort of I thought it might be interesting to talk about that and just see how we tackle it. i had a chance to chat with my dear friend, Brian Patrick Flynn, who I know from the interior design world.
00:16:58
Speaker
I also happened to have been with him when he and his husband, Hollis, welcomed their only... their first, their one and only daughter, Clover, into the world a year ago. And so we've just, I've seen this little girl grow up and we've talked a lot about having a family, what it meant for them. So I will play my conversation with him after we chat, but we had a nice talk about how, what family means to them and how they plan to navigate things because they are, you know, obviously two dads.
00:17:26
Speaker
I have picked up from you guys and I did a little research. So it's contagious, the whole preparing for an episode thing. We love stats. This was pretty easy to find. i didn't have to be too cute about it. But some of the data that I found that I just thought was so interesting is that fewer than half, so
Statistics on Changing Family Structures
00:17:44
Speaker
46% of U.S. kids younger than 18 years of age are living in a home with two married heterosexual parents in their first marriage. So that means that 54% are not.
00:17:55
Speaker
So this is a marked change from 1960 when 73% of children fit this description. In 1980, it was 61%. So we're clearly seeing a shift away from these sort of typical mother-father-touches.
00:18:09
Speaker
offspring model. Another stat I found, gay and lesbian households increased from 540,000 to 980,000 post-legalization of same-sex marriages and multi-generational households have increased from 7 to 26%. So this represents a 271% increase over a decade.
00:18:31
Speaker
So the change in the common family structure from traditional to non-traditional happened quickly, And the laws haven't moved as quickly to keep up. That's a little something that Brian talked about. And then...
00:18:42
Speaker
You know, it's obviously part of a larger conversation about just talking about differences with kids overall, but I thought family differences would be a nice place to start because that's something that we can all really relate to because we have families and that's something that our kids see on a daily basis.
00:18:57
Speaker
So who who wants to start? Caitlin, how do you broach this? Do you broach it with your kids? Has it ever come up or maybe not? Okay. I don't even know the first time it would have come up, but presently my daughter's dance at a dance studio. It's two moms and a daughter.
00:19:15
Speaker
And so i know to other children, it's been questioned, but to mine, it was never questioned. It was just the dance teachers are married and they had a daughter.
00:19:26
Speaker
And my middle child has spoken multiple times about kids at school who have two dads or two moms or only one mom and no dad. and so I just, I never, it was like, I never had a conversation about it. It was just, it's just there. It's just normal.
00:19:44
Speaker
And um for myself growing up, my mom's cousin, i don't even know when she married her partner. And then they had, ah they had a surrogate and then they had a son together.
00:19:56
Speaker
and so that was just normal. It was just, it was just always part of my life. But I know that that's not the case for a lot of other homes. And um I know when I was living in the South, it was just,
00:20:07
Speaker
not as normal, especially when I was teaching in the school that I was teaching. And it was very, everything was very traditional there, if that's how I want to word it.
00:20:18
Speaker
How about you, Megan? My kids have definitely asked some questions. I remember one time we were at a library group and there was two dads there with his son. And Nico did ask me, you know, mom, that boy has two dads. And I'm like, yeah, he has two dads.
00:20:32
Speaker
Then we just moved on from it. I just feel like in my house, The girls, it's never really come about. I just feel like it's today's dynamics.
00:20:44
Speaker
If you have a traditional family or if it's two moms, two dads, whatever it whatever it is, the the children are loved the exact same way. And I just teach my kids. um We're kind to everyone.
00:20:55
Speaker
There's nothing a matter with someone having two moms or two dads. So if there there's honestly never been questions where my kids have been like, that's weird or why is it like that? I'm just like, yeah, they have two dads.
00:21:07
Speaker
And we just go on our way. And, you know, again, it's not traditional like our house, but it doesn't, there's nothing a matter with that. Those kids are, you can tell they're loved just as much as us. And I think, I think it's great. i Families is for me is all about the love and the bond that you
Discussing Family Diversity with Children
00:21:24
Speaker
have. So if it's two dads, two moms, a mom and a dad, whatever it is, I think it's great.
00:21:29
Speaker
Callie? It hasn't really come up. I mean, we don't have anyone directly in our life. I feel like that's, that's been super, like non-traditional. I know we sort of talked about it like we hated, kind of hate that word, especially, i mean, when you look at the data and when it says that it's less than 50% now. So it's like, is it true? I guess it's traditional is still the word, but for us when it comes up, I think we just, with like anything that's a tricky topic with our kids, we just, we bring it up, like we talk about it as it comes up and as they, you know, as we um approach, it's not the word that I'm looking for, as we encounter it.
00:22:04
Speaker
And so whenever, my My son tends to be the one who's very inquisitive. He always has a lot of questions, even about anything. Like we have a neighbor who lives alone and she has a very large house and he'll be like,
00:22:16
Speaker
Why does she have that big, huge house if it's just her? So we kind of just like, you know, we, we, we tackle them as we come. And I just talk about, it's always just, every family does things differently and they do what works for their family. And we will always talk about the differences and the similarities. So we'll be like, well, this family might do, you know, these things are different, but what things are the same and what things are they doing?
00:22:38
Speaker
That's, you know, the same as how we're doing them. So, And again, my kids are also still you know quite young. My oldest is only six. So the way that we sort of broached it is just, I think what makes the most sense for my kids is people that they know in their direct circle. So as it comes up, then we talk about it. I mean, my son came home from school and not that long ago.
00:22:54
Speaker
And they obviously it must have come up because he had said something about he's like, well, family, you know, it could have two dads, right? And I was like, yeah, you can have two dads in a family. And he was like, it doesn't happen as often.
00:23:06
Speaker
And so we just sort of talked about it. And I said, no, it's not as common. I said, but, you know, two, you can have two moms or you can have two dads. I said, you know, and then I talked about families we know where, you know, maybe it's just the mom and the dad's not there anymore. And so, you know, it can be 8 million different ways.
00:23:21
Speaker
So again, younger children. So they haven't sort of entered the chat of some other things that might come up when it comes to all these different family dynamics, but we've sort of just we sort of just tackled it as it comes up and as they have seen real world examples of it. So they have something like contextual to go off of.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah. A couple things that I have tried to ah sort of check myself with at home that I think helps because, you know, you are limited by who you meet in person.
00:23:53
Speaker
And i so I try not to make any assumptions. So when I talk about families i or people I don't know, i try not to sort of say their mom and dad. I might say parents.
00:24:05
Speaker
So you know I might sort of give the option of the differences that a family might have if we're talking about it, something in general. I also, and Brian mentioned this when we were chatting, something as simple as having just books that have different representation.
00:24:21
Speaker
That's a really easy way for kids to in a quiet setting to just sort of normalize the fact that a family might be a grandma, a family might be a sibling, a family might be same sex,
00:24:32
Speaker
And it's not, you know, we're not getting into like the birds and the
Conversation with Brian Patrick Flynn on Same-Sex Parenting
00:24:35
Speaker
bees of it all. I think sometimes people get so far ahead of themselves with these conversations and it's just as simple as like that. Those are, those are her parents.
00:24:43
Speaker
And so those are some things I also brought up, and I guess I'm spoiling the whole conversation I had, but I went to a workshop and it was really interesting. They said that the workshop was about race and that is a little bit different, obviously, than talking about family structure, but I think the point remains is that sometimes when we as grownups are uncomfortable or hesitant to get into something, we just avoid it.
00:25:05
Speaker
And what their note was is like, you don't have to have some hot take. It's as simple as just making the observation. So not that you need to go around like pointing at everyone you see, but if someone in close proximity you know If you're standing behind someone in line at Starbucks and it's a same-sex couple, it may be as simple as like, oh, look what she was ordering with her moms.
00:25:27
Speaker
So it's not like having a big, deep conversation. It's just naming it to sort of bring bring it into focus, I guess, was the point of it. And so that was something that I sort of think about is that if I do want to have a conversation, it doesn't have to be this big.
00:25:42
Speaker
heady thing yeah yeah I love I love thinking about it that way because I do think sometimes when our kids come home with questions or they they notice something like we think like all right we need to sit down and it needs to be this like grandiose thing but because in our mind it's this really big topic but to our children it's just something else that they noticed about the world you know Yeah. Yeah. They have no prior knowledge. I think that's the worst part about being an adult is, you know, all of this backstory when they don't really care, they don't care, so nor do they even understand it. You had said, you know, maybe somebody's parent is their grandmother.
00:26:17
Speaker
i taught in two different areas. Before I was referring to an affluent area. Now I'm referring to a very low income area. And a lot of my students had very different home lives and their families were made up of just everything under the sun. And I vividly remember having to just say, who lives with you?
00:26:40
Speaker
Who do you eat dinner with? Who brings you to school? It was never, do you have a mom or a dad or anything like that? Because I didn't want to put it out there that you should have a mom or a dad or something like that, because I didn't know where they were coming from.
00:26:55
Speaker
And there were some kids in the class who did have a mom and a dad and didn't know anything other than that. And then there were other children who were raised by a grandmother and that's all they knew. And so with my children, i have to catch myself because I'm an over talker and I over explain everything. i do it to everyone I know. And I'll, I'll just have to bite my tongue and be like, all right, you said enough.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know what, Charlotte, back to your point, I thought right in my head, i have a friend here that runs a successful business and, Her and her partner have a daughter, and I didn't realize this.
00:27:30
Speaker
And when she told me she had a baby, I was like, oh, my gosh, congratulations. I'm so happy for you and your husband. And she was like, oh, it's my partner. And I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. And I didn't, you know, and she was like, it's fine. Everyone says that.
00:27:45
Speaker
And, you know, she, and I've seen her now, I've seen her with her partner and the baby and they're ah happy couple, but same thing. i was like you and your husband, cause I'm just, you know, where I need to, like you were saying, be, think when I speak of it and it needs to be in a different way.
00:28:01
Speaker
But I do, i was just so embarrassed. And she was like, don't, don't be embarrassed. I'm like, I apologize. She's like, everyone thinks this like, like you think, you know? yeah. so Well, I mean, this is, this is a non sequitur and then we'll move on because I want you to hear my conversation with Brian, but I also do it with my own kids when I'm talking about, like when you grow up, like I never say when you grow up and like get married or have like a boyfriend or a girl, like, I don't know, you know, they may get up, they may grow up and be with someone who's the same sexism, same gender, who knows? So I've gotten better at
00:28:34
Speaker
checking that part of the conversation too. You know, and I'm, i was born with no middle name so that when I grew up and got married to a man and I took his name, I wouldn't have to lose a name.
00:28:45
Speaker
Like it's just a different time. Yes. Yeah, totally. Okay. can listen to my conversation with Brian. It was really fun. i happened to record this like a day or two before I got to go down and visit with him. So I also spent, maybe that's my peak. I spent my weekend snuggling with not him and his husband with Clover.
00:29:07
Speaker
It was like, she's, you forget. if First of all, i remember when I had kids, my mother would be like, I don't remember. i don't remember. i am already doing that. Like she's about to be one. She's not quite walking. And they'll be like, do you remember when she ate?
00:29:21
Speaker
solids or when she had milk. And I'm like, no, I i remember not. ah I remember Eleanor did not walk before she turned one. That's my only data point, but I've already forgotten. Needless to say, she's so smiley and happy and it was the best.
00:29:38
Speaker
I think there's a lot of people that still think that a family is a mom and a dad. And so the point of this episode is like, how do you navigate the fact that your kids are going to be going to school with families that are single parents, same sex parents, grandparents raising them, siblings raising them.
00:29:52
Speaker
So that's sort of the what we're going to get into. And I thought i thought you could be a point of ah like our expert in that regard. Do you, have you and Hollis talked about how you are going to talk about family with Clover?
00:30:08
Speaker
Or is it just this is our family? It's not even a discussion. I think that we haven't really given it a lot of thought yet because we want everything to just kind of unfold and develop ah like fluidly. But I think the term that seems to be the easiest that just kind of flows is modern family because, A, I try to avoid using the term modern family because the TV show.
00:30:28
Speaker
i mean, it's such a good show, though. Oh, and it really holds up. It aged beautifully. But ah modern family, it's kind it's kind of ah it's kind of a broad a broad term. But anyhow, as Bova grows up, now that she's like around the one-year-old age, I think that important to us to start pointing out to her that family's coming in all different shapes and sizes. So we don't ever want her to feel left out if she's in school and like all of her friends have a mommy and a daddy.
00:30:52
Speaker
So... We kind of want her to know, hey, some families have a mom and a lot of families have a mommy and a daddy. And then some families have just a mommy or just a daddy. Some families have two mommies, two daddies. Sometimes a family is the person raising you might be a generation above where you would expect to be. It could be a grandparent. So it's going to be pretty heavy on our um on our list of things to do. Like, I think we want to really make sure she knows that there's nothing...
00:31:18
Speaker
different or weird or strange or not normal about her having two dads. I went to a workshop once and they said you can notice a name was sort of there. And it was definitely a workshop for it was on race specifically. But it was like if you're looking at a book, you don't have to have a big, heavy opinion about it. You can just be like, oh, look at this character. I noticed that this character looks like they have a darker complexion. So it sounds like that's sort of your approach is like, oh, look at, you know, Josh has two moms and Clover has two dads.
00:31:49
Speaker
Like you're not giving an opinion. You're just naming it. That is probably the best way to describe it. One of the other ways that I describe it is by saying, Suzie, is she left-handed or right-handed? It doesn't draw any type of response from anybody. It's like, oh,
00:32:02
Speaker
There's no difference between somebody having two a mom and a dad versus two dads and two moms versus somebody who can't write cursive. Like it's just, we we we're on the same page. It's it's not a data not good or bad. It's just a data point. Exactly. Now you are, by the time this airs, you may officially be parents of a one-year-old.
00:32:18
Speaker
Cue the tears. Have you and Hollis encountered any issues thus far being a family with two dads, whether emotional or logistical? How has that been for you to be a modern family?
00:32:31
Speaker
Both. Yes to both. So logistically speaking, there's a lot of paperwork out there that will ask, you know, mother's name, father's name. Well, Clover, technically, biologically, she has a mother or egg donor, but technically she doesn't. So it is kind of a strange hurdle. It is something that needs to be addressed because I don't ever want my kid to feel left out or to feel like she doesn't exist. And the fact that not, I think if paperwork was probably worded for, say there was different categories, like mother, father, or just like parent.
00:33:04
Speaker
Actually, that's probably correct. Parent one, parent two. There are a good amount of legal forms that I found a lot of times from legal firms, like in the city, it just says parent and it makes it so much easier because there's no explanation.
00:33:18
Speaker
So to answer your question, logistically, yes, when it comes to paperwork. Emotionally, There's two parts to it. There's going out to dinner in areas where people 99.9% of the time just see a child with a mother and a father or a child with a male and to female. So when we go to smaller towns, Hollis can usually feel like from the tables next to us. And we're so numb to it now because for me, it's just like, who cares? Like, why are you even but even pointing it out? This kid has two loving parents who had to go through remarkably difficult times.
00:33:51
Speaker
scientific things to make her exist. Like there was no one night stand happened where all of a sudden we're like, Hey, we're having a kid now. This was years of planning and it was super strategic. So luckily now that my, my daughter is, you know, turning, she's around the one year mark. It's not really affecting us that much, but the fact that it's 2025 and we still have people making comments, it's body language says a lot and it's just not cool. I just think about how it's going to affect her. i don't care how it affects me. I'm a grownup, but I don't want it to affect her. Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
And then last question, do you have any tips for parents that may be from the traditional mother, father, mom, dad family with how you would like them to engage or discuss this? I don't mean to put you on the hot seat as speaking for all and ah non-traditional families, but what would you like people to know or ask or approach?
00:34:41
Speaker
I just think it's really easy when somebody meets Clover and then sees that she has two daddies and say, you to say hi to Clover's daddies? Something as simple as that. Or or say hi to Clover's parent.
00:34:52
Speaker
Or something along the lines of say hi to Pops and say hi to dad. And just leave it at that and let the kid draw their own conclusions. So we haven't really gotten there yet, but just don't want to draw too much attention to it. it is it is a It is a question that's going to come up, but we're prepared for it.
00:35:05
Speaker
um We wouldn't have waited until our mid to late forties to have children if we didn't know it was going to come with some people saying, what? So it is what it is. Yeah. There's one thing that comes to mind a lot and it's, it's just, I think about like when she's old enough to be on the playground, old enough to be in sports and activities and stuff. And one of the things that's kind of tricky about being a same sex parent is especially when you're a gay guy, you associate a lot of the being left out as being in middle school and being the last person picked on the team in recess or or PE.
00:35:36
Speaker
And I'm anticipating that eventually possibly being a thing where we go to an activity and all the other kids have a mommy and a daddy. And then there's one kid that has two daddies. I could be wrong. There might be multiple, but I think as somebody who grew up being the outsider and not necessarily fitting in with all the other heterosexual kids that I'm, I'm, I use a lot of my experiences from my past to plan on things that I will probably encounter now as a same sex, a parent.
00:36:01
Speaker
I don't like that. Unfortunately, that's just the world that we live in, but I'm a grown up I can take care of myself. But I think, I think it would be really, really nice if people like yourself really had these adorable little board books that show that families come in all shapes and sizes. Once when a kid is very little and they're just totally exposed to seeing that,
00:36:19
Speaker
All kids have different parents. It's not even a thing anymore. And that's just what I hope happens once my little kid is speaking and talking and socializing. I just, I want her to to grow up around other kids who just don't look at her as having two dads and thinking there's anything necessarily different.
00:36:35
Speaker
has She has loving parents. Who cares that it's two guys, you know? Yeah, I agree. Just to normalize it. It's like we have a book that's about there was a time when women didn't wear pants and the first woman that regularly wore pants. It was like hu shocking. That's sort of a non-emotional example of the same thing. Exactly what you're saying. There was a time when that was the most radical thing you could do and everyone is talking about it. And now you don't even bat an eyelash. So I am with you. I think the goal is for kids to see friends that have all different family makeups and it's like, oh, whatever. That's their family.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's
Personal Peaks and Pits
00:37:07
Speaker
a really good analogy. So those are those are my main things. Thank you. Thank you.
00:37:15
Speaker
No, my official peak was that spring sports have started. So I get to go and relive my glory days on the lacrosse field, which is fun. Callie, do you have peak or a pit? I just realized i i didn't write anything down.
00:37:27
Speaker
Then I'll skip you. Yeah, I don't i don't have one i don't know. I got nothing. ah Megan, do you have a peak or a pit? Yes, I have a peek. I went away this past weekend with my girlfriends from high school to Mystic, and there was seven of us, and we've been friends for 25, no, 29 years.
00:37:48
Speaker
And I just feel like for me and other moms out there, if you can take a break, why i come back with so much energy and more patience with my kids? I just need that break sometimes. It was 20, exactly 24 hours.
00:38:01
Speaker
I left here at 1230. I was back at 1230, but it was just fun to get away and spend time with your friends. So that was so fun. The logistics of that are. Oh yeah. Oh, please. Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
I know. I felt like the dirty dishes that I left in the dishwasher still there and for me to unload when I got home. So it's all good. Whatever. Caitlin, do you peak or a pit? I have a pit, but you celebrated your birthday, right, Megan?
00:38:26
Speaker
Yes, that was my birthday. That was my birthday. Fun thing to do. Yeah. And your gift was the the dishes when you came home. Yeah, they were clean, but I had to unload them. I was like, oh, this is my coffee cup from yesterday morning. Thanks.
00:38:40
Speaker
Thanks, family. I have a pit and I hate ending on a pit, but um so it's dance competition season. It's like my favorite time of the year. And my oldest is not one to get very emotional at dance competitions. She's just, she goes out there, she does her best, she comes in, she likes to eat her snacks and hang it out with her friends, change and go do it all over again, all of her routines.
00:39:02
Speaker
And this year she noticed the mistakes she made on stage and made eye contact with me when she was making them. So I was like in the audience already emotional because she did a very mature lyrical dance this year that was just blew me away.
00:39:19
Speaker
And so I get backstage and I'm like pretending nothing's wrong. And she's angry because she gets, this was her first reaction after this dance was anger. She goes out and does another dance, makes eye contact me with me as she messes up, comes back and now she's crying.
00:39:33
Speaker
And I'm like, oh shit. So then I'm trying not to cry. And just in a nutshell, it was bad. it was very bad. i talked to a lot of dance moms. They said that that first moment when you're like toughest one cracks,
00:39:47
Speaker
Like it's hard on you, but you could get through it. And then some of the older girls are going to talk to her before the next competition. I had a lot of dance moms reach out and talk to me. It was just, it was rough.
00:39:58
Speaker
And then I got the stomach bug 24 hours after it. And so the last couple of days have just really sucked. You sure you don't have a peak, Callie? Um, sure. Yeah, absolutely. I do. I have a peak and that it is my mom came this weekend, which is always nice to have an extra pair of hands.
00:40:17
Speaker
We're trying to move her down here and Oh, that's good. we're Yeah. For her to live. So hopefully someday my peak will be my mom lives down here now. Cause we don't have, I don't have, you know, mom next door on whoever I, we don't really have a,
00:40:30
Speaker
family community near us, unfortunately. So that would be really, really nice. We don't, I'm dying for my parents to, they're beginning that process. And I'm trying to be kind of chill about it because they're also looking at places near my sister because my brother is still sort of single and fancy free. And they just, you know, the grandchildren. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, you should pick, you know, wherever, wherever you find the spot. that's Yeah. Yeah. here But it should be, they think you'd really like Connecticut and yeah.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, no, my mom's locked and loaded like here. We just have to, we just figuring out the logistics for her. So there's some houses for sale in my neighborhood and we have a really great neighborhood.
00:41:11
Speaker
She's too, that's too far. I need her close enough that she can take my kids to school. She also has friends, you know, we're from Connecticut, obviously. So she has friends actually in this area. So she really does. She wants to be kind of in one of the towns right in here.
00:41:24
Speaker
Well, that is that is a peak. That would be helpful for childcare. just anything i mean just like so she was here this weekend sorry now i'm going on tangent she was here this weekend and i told you guys like two episodes ago that my son is super into into magic treehouse books and i haven't been able to find a lot of time to read them and like she was able to like sit on the sofa and like read him an entire magic treehouse book and just like stuff like that that i'm like you know, that there's all these studies about, I mean, even just, we were talking about earlier about multi-generational households or just how it's hugely beneficial to grandmothers to be around their ah grandchildren that, you know, they say there's all these benefits, but there's so many benefits to the children as well.
00:42:05
Speaker
So, I mean, I'm just grateful that she, you know, that we have grandparents that want to be part of our children's lives because some people don't have that, but that part, you know, that that my grip but that my children would have that person in their life growing up.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:42:17
Speaker
I've, It's not something that I realized is so important. And I'm so like grateful that they will have that. So, yeah. Have you seen those TikTok videos where the mom will be like watching, you know, Johnny go over to visit grandma and she'll just film the little kid like tottering out the back steps across the field, like over the whatever. And then wish you can see like I would like nothing more than that. I know the granny. Have you heard about granny pods?
00:42:43
Speaker
It's this like whole new movement where people are putting tiny homes in their backyard. That will be my mother. Grandparents. Yeah, we can't. I mean, we like zoning wise. Trust me. I looked at zoning wise. We can't. but I would love a granny pod for my mother-in-law too. i would just have two granny pods, but it's not in the cards for Me and my sister have been fighting over my mom.
00:43:02
Speaker
She's not that old. But the other day were like, no, I'm getting her. My mom's like, you guys need to stop. And I was like, dad can go somewhere else, but I get you. That's funny.
00:43:14
Speaker
Almost on cue, the the dog has started talking. Did you hear her? I heard her. oh not that She said we're to go out. Yeah, she's like, you guys are done. Wrap it up.
00:43:25
Speaker
So thank you guys for listening. Make sure you go check out Mom's Night Out. They are hilarious. Leave us a review. Listen to our podcast. You know the drill. We love, I was going to say my peak is almost listening and reading comments on YouTube. i love all the comments on YouTube. There's so many good ones. So thank you for listening.
00:43:43
Speaker
Thank you for just being part of our community, guys. This has been fun. Got it all figured.