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The Convenience Illusion: How “Easy” Tech Is Making Mom Life Harder
386 Plays16 hours ago
This week on Just 4 Moms, we’re breaking down a topic every mom can relate to: when “convenience” backfires. From confusing school apps and broken Diaper Genies to multitasking tech that drains our energy, the moms share what’s really causing their daily stress.
Kallie introduces the idea of the “Convenience Illusion,” inspired by Stolen Focus by Johann Hari, and how tools that promise productivity often create mental clutter. The group chats about the toll of digital overload and how these “time savers” actually steal our attention and peace of mind.
Plus, special guest Dr. Emma Seppälä (author of The Happiness Track and Sovereign) joins us to explore how the constant chase for efficiency may be costing us our well-being—and what we can do to reclaim it.
Also in this episode:
- Favorite beauty products (hello, overnight lip masks and glowing skin)
- Real-life mom fails (Amazon mishaps, neglected furniture, and more)
- Our weekly Peaks & Pits (from Brimfield trips to dance recitals)
If you’ve ever wanted to throw your phone out the window after trying to book a beauty appointment or figure out a school app, this one’s for you.
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Transcript
Introduction and Light Sensitivity
00:00:00
Speaker
Are we all good? i'm just Yes. I still don't like this light situation. i think it looks fine. Am I my okay, Kelly? It hurts my eyes, which is why. Like, you'll see me keep changing it because it starts to bother me.
00:00:13
Speaker
Like it's too bright in your eyes? yeah it'll be too bright and then it's too dull. i don't know. My eyes are dumb. Yeah, I think it looks good. Well, thanks. But I have light sensitive I have light sensitive eyes.
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome to Just For Moms. I'm Charlotte. I'm Caitlin. I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner.
00:00:38
Speaker
Again, no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. things don' plan the things All right, everyone, welcome back to episode 20.
00:00:50
Speaker
I am Callie, and I'm here with Caitlin, Charlotte, and Megan every time. Will I ever? Is that everyone's name? Yes. Yeah, right. And you're you're like leaning into camera. I was like, this is great. It's like ASMR.
00:01:07
Speaker
Is somebody new here and Yeah, right.
Beauty Product Favorites
00:01:10
Speaker
um I wanted to start today with sharing us each sharing a beauty product that we've been loving. I don't this randomly came into my head like three months ago. And I was like, when I'm in charge of one of the episodes, I'm going to do it. And then I just didn't.
00:01:23
Speaker
And so here we are. Caitlin, do you want to go first share a beauty product you've been loving? Yeah, it's really hard because I have two, but I'm only going talk about one. I brought them both though. so I'm going to close my eyes and pick one.
00:01:35
Speaker
Okay. This is it. yeah ah I'm not even going to try to read it It's basically a bronzer, this teeny tiny little bronzer drop. It's by that drunk elephant brand, which is the only thing I own this, but they're called anti-pollution sun drops.
00:01:50
Speaker
And you add it to your serum or your cream. It just gives you like this glow. And since I am so fair skinned and I need all the help I can get,
00:02:01
Speaker
It makes me look tan. I've heard good stuff about it. It's really good. It says that it has protective antioxidants and omega fatty acids, but I mean, it just makes me look tan. So I'm down.
00:02:16
Speaker
I use their, ah tinted moisturizer and I like, like it as well because the last tinted moisturizer I used was making me break out.
00:02:26
Speaker
And so the guy was like, this is actually more of a sunblock, but you might like it. And I do. So it must be in the same family. Yeah. And I think you can add this to it. It has a list of anything that you can add it to. And it's brown. It looks gross, but like when you mix it in with a lot of stuff, it just, it's great.
00:02:44
Speaker
So Charlotte, what's yours? I have discovered um cleansing oils. which is sort of goes against everything I used to think of when it came to skincare. But I really liked it. I had one, i can't remember the brand name, but i I haven't sort of found any that I dislike. I just sort of try them all on for size. But yeah, cleansing oil.
00:03:03
Speaker
like cleansing oil. How does that work? I mean it's an oil and you put it on your skin, but I guess it just draws out the same way... I don't know. it Like what are other, that you know, how you use like WD-40 to like clean shit off your refrigerator. you heard that Like yeah the oil well just naturally, it cleans your skin without stripping it.
00:03:21
Speaker
And I think my skin is this weird, like hypersensitive skin, but also I still break out. And so if I try to treat the breakouts, I think I sometimes just go too far. So the oil has been a nice soft alternative. Does it have a residue when you're done washing your face?
00:03:39
Speaker
No, so what I do is you, I put it on and then I'll wipe it off with just like a cotton thing. And then i have like a muslin, you know, like baby blankets, that really soft cotton. I got of like a six pack of just plain little muslin washcloths.
00:03:54
Speaker
And so I now use that to help like, cause it's really soft. So I guess I'm scrubbing my skin, but because it's so soft, I'm not scrubbing it. And it's much lighter than a washcloth. So I'll do that last. And so I never feel like I have anything, like no oil left behind.
00:04:08
Speaker
I'm intrigued. Cool. And it's not something you use in the shower, like as a wash. It's after. I use it to clean my face. So I'll do that. And then I wipe it with the muslin and then I'll put on whatever I'm in the mood for at night.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah. No, let's go. Yeah. What's yours, Megan? I have here a lip mask. There's many different brands, kinds, and I apply it before I go to bed at night because I feel like my lips are always chapped all year round and I'm putting on lip gloss, chapstick.
00:04:44
Speaker
So yeah, a lip mask before you go to bed at night is a game changer. Do you find it works? I feel like I tried one once and it didn't do anything for me. So, Callie, that is a good question.
00:04:57
Speaker
ah I feel like this is, again, a Instagram. Megan needs to try everything lip peel and mouth tape.
00:05:08
Speaker
It will not work with the mouth tape. ah You're right. So so you're right. I'm kind of over the mouth tape. We're on to the lip mask. Actually, two of the other people in my family have been took over the mouth tape. But you're right.
00:05:21
Speaker
Again, I'm getting like hooked into Instagram being like, use a lip mask. And now I'm like, lu use a lip. I don't even know if it works, but. Is it like just a thicker? You're honest.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes. It's a little tingly. Oh, what's the tingle for? I think because it's probably working better than a normal, you know, I don't know, all day. But yeah, they say to apply it before bed.
00:05:47
Speaker
Or like a mild allergic reaction. it Yeah. I mean, you could probably, let's be honest, you could probably just use Aqua 4 A&D from your kid's diaper bag. But I am taking the, you know, trying to be very chic and saying use the lip mask. So that's where we're at.
00:06:05
Speaker
It's prettier. Yeah. It's pink. It's glossy. And you're glossing as you're sleeping. You know? Yeah. It's good. I like it. Okay. Mine is a moisturizer. It is the first aid beauty ultra repair cream. And I just, I put this on everything you can put on your face. You can put it on your legs.
00:06:23
Speaker
I get very dry in the winter. And I found that that like, I loved that I could just put it anywhere and it worked. And you use it face. You've posted about it, right? have posted about it multiple times. I bought it for my face. And then I realized that it was such a large tub and I could use it everywhere. And now I, I use it.
00:06:39
Speaker
And it doesn't break out on your face. No. think it's like, I mean, it's literally designed for face and skin, which is, mean, like in body, which is always weird to me. I'm like, it should be a different lotion for your face.
00:06:50
Speaker
It works. Let me tell you, it's not too thick on my face, but it still works on my legs. I don't know the science and I don't need to know. Yeah. know that and And maybe they're using it on mice, but we never know. We'll put all of these in our Amazon shop, guys. So go to our website.
00:07:06
Speaker
yeah We do. We have an Amazon shop and we will put our our faves in there.
Mom Fails and Convenience Illusion
00:07:11
Speaker
Okay, let's move on to mom fails. Megan, do you have a mom fail for us? Yes. Does this ever happen in your house? Because it happens in mine. I order many things from Amazon and you're rushing, you're tearing through the packages. Sometimes things come smaller than you expect.
00:07:28
Speaker
It's happeneds happened a lot lately where were expecting something for one of my kids and I threw it out by accident because sometimes they come and there's all this like wrapping paper inside with it and I don't realize – That's in there with the vitamins and the mouthwash.
00:07:44
Speaker
So there was something that came and I threw it out by accident because, you know, Amazon put all this like extra wrapping. So maybe they could stop putting that because it's bad for the environment too. So I don't know.
00:07:58
Speaker
That's my mom. There's no rhyme or reason when they mix and combine. It's not like every order stays to itself. Like sometimes they throw them all together. And sometimes they'll throw like, you guys use subscribe and save?
00:08:09
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And sometimes like I, to me, subscribe and save would be its own order, but like they'll throw in something that always throws me for a loop. Same. When it's mixed with my subscribe and save.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yes. Yes. You're right, Callie. Yeah. So I, I, my mom fails throwing out items in a package without taking my time and looking. Yes. Caitlin. I don't know. I fail every day. I was going to, was going talk about just the,
00:08:37
Speaker
Basically, I have a once upon a child in my unfinished side because I can't give any clothes away right now. I just can't do it. They just all sit there. Like mentally. Yeah. yeah i went I went through that, Caitlin. It's okay.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah. You know what was helpful for me? Because I am a once upon a child shopper, which if you're not local, it's just it's a consignment store, but it's it's not too cute. like It's just you can go and get. It's just racks and racks and racks.
00:09:04
Speaker
And I was the same way. And then I finally took a bin in It's such a pain in the ass to have them go through your, like they take forever. Half of the stuff you don't get. So for me, I did it once and they, it took a while and half of it didn't work. And then they were like, and you have $15 to spend or whatever it was.
00:09:21
Speaker
And so now I have found a couple of friends and I just, I go through and I pull out the stuff that is stained or ripped and I just bring it all to them. And they're happy to go through it. And if they don't like some of it, I don't care what they do with it. But that was so liberating for me, not to just to offload the, like, let's make some money and do something from it. Because it was, I was never happy. Well, yeah, I gave up on it.
00:09:43
Speaker
Like, I used to do it all the time. But i my problem right now is there's just, because of the age gap in my children, I'm holding on to things for my from my older children for my youngest Yes. And I'm afraid to get rid of it. There's just, there's just too many containers and I'm the only one who can organize it. And it's, it's bad.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So we can't ever find anything. That's the problem. My kids were like, we need a bathing suit. I'm like, but good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you go to that store too, ah it's all by color, right? Charlotte.
00:10:19
Speaker
It's by age. Oh, by age. For some reason, I thought it was color. Okay. There's another new one I meant to, that opened here in Norwalk. I meant to ask you if you tried it. It's going to, it's so annoying. I haven't been there yet.
00:10:30
Speaker
It just opened. it's ah It's adults and kids consignment and it's, they're all over. Why can't I think of the name? It's like a new. and love consignment jobs. Yeah. Oh, it's going to bother me. I'm going to text, it's right near where i get bagels. I'm going to text you the name.
00:10:43
Speaker
I figured you had been to it. Well, and I guess Once Upon a Child is maybe technically not consignment. They just buy it, right? And so that it means that they can yeah work in bulk. Yeah. yeah A little better because I don't care if it's from Target or i mean they even sell like Walmart stuff. I just, yeah I want to go to one store and get ah bunch of stuff for cheap.
00:11:05
Speaker
yeah They have some really good stuff. Do you have a mom fail? Yeah, they have good stuff. My mom fail is yes. Do you guys at your schools have something called like One Book One School or something like that? Yes. Okay.
00:11:16
Speaker
We do too. And this month, this semester, it's a book we've read and it's a great book, but we've read it. And so I'm not super motivated to like reread it. The kids don't seem to give a shit. my Like nobody seems to care and they kind of know enough to be able to answer the weekly questions. So it's, we're just not doing it. and I don't know if the expectation is that we do it.
00:11:39
Speaker
I don't know. We're just, we're not on So
Digital Tools and Multitasking
00:11:42
Speaker
that's our fail. I mean, you guys read it, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. My mom fail. It's not even a mom fail. just like a human being fail or whatever. I when we moved Opal out of our bedroom, we had bought the house when I was pregnant with Opal. So I never had decorated. so I was like, I'm gonna give it a little refresh, like bought a raw. It was literally just a bed in a room.
00:12:02
Speaker
I put a rug and a dresser and I like made it cutesy with some art and I bought two nightstands but my fail is I have still not put the nightstands together because I peeked inside the box this is months it's been months peeked inside the box and it's ever everything is its own piece and it's got drawers and I just I don't know that it'll ever happen I'm not sure can you return them no I mean I want them TaskRabbit is Michael handy I should TaskRabbit it. But I like to combine TaskRabbit with other some waiting.
00:12:34
Speaker
Michael is handy very handy when it's not instructions. Like, I'm the person that if it's a following instructions thing, he's the kind of person, like, if an issue has happened and there's not instructions, like, I would give up.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'd be like, oh, it's broken. Like, he will spend hours fixing it. So I've always been the instruction following put together person. So it is on on me. or maybe there's Maybe there's a kid in the neighborhood that could do it for you or something. I don't know. That's a good idea.
00:13:00
Speaker
I didn't think of that. Hire it out to some child. Child labor. Great. All right. Let's dive into today's topic, which is convenience illusion. i wanted to talk about this. is something that keeps like coming up in my personal life and I've been thinking about a lot lately. And so I wanted to chat with you guys about it. So if you don't know what convenience illusion is, I'll read the definition to you. So convenience all illusion refers to the perception that a convenient feature or technology actually provides more convenience than it really does.
00:13:32
Speaker
So even when it might be causing inconvenience or harm in the long run. So something that appears to be convenient, but really it's just taking us more time than it really offers us.
00:13:43
Speaker
So my first question is to ask you guys something that you can think of in your life that is meant to be more convenient, but really requires more work on your end. I'll start with Caitlin.
00:13:55
Speaker
Diaper Genie. We don't use them anymore, but I had them with all of my kids and And I just, I needed to have them because it sounded so convenient. It always feels convenient when you're getting ready for that next baby, but they always break.
00:14:08
Speaker
It always smells like a dead squirrel inside of it, no matter what, even if there's no diapers inside. my Our fridge and freezer that we have right now, and it's probably just the brand itself.
00:14:20
Speaker
It is maybe three years old and as much as it could be, it should be a convenience to us. We've had issues with the ice so many times. The ice maker itself, the door being magnet shut has broken. So like one of my kids left the door open in the middle of the night and all the food went bad.
00:14:44
Speaker
So it's supposed to be a convenience, this fridge that we got that's new. But the past three years, has been an inconvenience on how many times someone has to come out to repair it.
00:14:56
Speaker
and fix it and repair it. And then, yeah. So for me, that's, if that's what you're looking for, that's what I, know it's, you know, yeah. It is, yes. It's like the old appliances people always drink. Like do you have that, like your parents have that refrigerator in their garage from 1950 that's still working. And ours are like wifi connected and like can't keep food. Yeah.
00:15:18
Speaker
Come cook on my oven. It's, I think it's from 1994. My oven. It's probably amazing, right? It's great. It's ugly as all hell, but. Yeah. And then Callie, I had to buy at times when the ice maker is broken, you know, the, like we used to have the ice that you'd have to put in the freezer and fill up in the sink.
00:15:39
Speaker
And then i had to buy an ice. I remember I was on Instagram asking people their recommendations for, ah you know, ice machines. And I had a little, no, it was actually a big thing on the counter for a little bit. So it's just an up and down of.
00:15:54
Speaker
Absolutely. Yep. Charlotte. um I have two. The more general one is sort of anything that has to do with car technology. There's so much on a car dashboard that I just, I don't use most of it.
00:16:13
Speaker
More specifically, and I think we can all agree that there's just a lot of apps floating around there. We have an app that is meant to track our kids' bus so that you know where it is. and in theory, that's great, but it doesn't,
00:16:26
Speaker
Like it just doesn't always work. So like if you're used to using it and then it doesn't, then you have no idea where the bus is and it's usually timely, but not always. So that's, that's been a moving target as far as whether it makes life easier.
00:16:40
Speaker
We have one for our town too, Charlotte, and I just stopped going on it because it never updates. the the bus app. Okay. Mine is my wet, dry, my wet, my wet, dry mop vacuum. Do you know what i'm talking about? yeah Okay. This is a product that I've talked about for years. Like I love it. I've raved about it on my socials, on my YouTube. So I am admitting my wrong here.
00:17:04
Speaker
It got left in Michael's office by accident because he had taken up there to clean something. And it's just like his office just far enough away that like I couldn't quickly grab it. And so after like two or three days, I was like, I need to clean the floors. And so I just grabbed the broom that like is on the other side of the basement door.
00:17:20
Speaker
And I like swept really quick. And then I just like grabbed the mop and I mopped really quick. And I was like, wait, why was this easier? Like I realized that it was easier to just use that. Cause when I thought about my wet, dry back mop thing or whatever, I'm like, I have to like clean it out every time I'm done using it. And it's got all these pieces and then I have to let it dry or it smells and it doesn't actually like get into some of the corners. And still, I still like have to sweep in the corners.
00:17:47
Speaker
And I just like had this like aha moment that I was like, I bought this thing that's supposed to make cleaning my floors easier, but it actually was far more time consuming. And it was, i don't know, it was a ah moment of like, wait, wait a minute.
00:18:01
Speaker
I've been using this thing. And like, I mean, but i convinced myself, I've been convinced that it was making my life so much easier, but I really wasn't. The other one that gets me is definitely apps too. I mean, there's so many apps.
00:18:12
Speaker
The other day I was just trying to message my kid's teacher on the app. And it, every time I clicked it, like it popped back up and the text cursor kept moving. and I was like, I could have literally just called her or like just talked to her when I picked up so much faster than the 10 minutes I just like fought with the this app thing.
00:18:30
Speaker
So the Shake Shack app never works for me to the point where I've like gone to their IT support and they're like, give me the version and everything. and I always am like, how can it be only me? Cause you know, you look on Reddit and there's no one complaining about it. And so I will, every time we go to order Shake Shack,
00:18:48
Speaker
because it doesn't give my husband the same issue. it'll I will spend 15 minutes like logging in through every email I can think of, creating new accounts with different
Parenting with Technology
00:18:55
Speaker
emails. And if I had just gone into the store and ordered, store, restaurant, and ordered, it'd be So much faster. Yeah.
00:19:01
Speaker
All these apps, like do your I'm sure you all go through this. all Every child that plays on a different team has a different app. And for dance, there's an app. And for the doctors, there's an app now. I'm like, I have no room on my phone. Like, no. Like, oh, like I brought Ava to a new doctor because she's been doing physical therapy. And they're like, in order to check in, you need to download the app first. I'm like, don't have any room. I apologize. So can't check in.
00:19:32
Speaker
I also don't know which app is which. So I have, I think I have eight sports apps on my phone because the football use is different from basketball. It's different yeah from lacrosse. And so I'll go to check the schedule and I'm like, I don't, like I have to go through all of them to be like, oh, right. This is the middle school black sixth grade soccer team. Great.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yep. Really side note. It just started downpouring here. I can hear it. Yeah, that's crazy. Okay, so yeah, no, the topic of apps actually is what I wanted to dive into a little bit. I feel like it started me on this whole convenience illusion thing. So I'm reading Stolen Focus, which is by Johan Hari, and he is exploring why he thinks it is that we struggle with concentration, why it's been getting harder and harder for us to concentrate.
00:20:15
Speaker
And one of the key ideas that he has been mentioning is how convenience tools are tricking us into thinking that we're saving time, but they're actually draining our attention. And in the book, he calls this the switch cost effect.
00:20:27
Speaker
And it's the idea that your brain isn't like a light switch and it can't just snap back and forth when you stop one task. So your brain actually continues to linger on the previous task for a little while. And the fancy term for that lingering is called attention residue.
00:20:40
Speaker
And they say that if you're switching back and forth between tasks, it can take 20 to 25 minutes to actually reenter that deep focus state. And so I was thinking about the things that promise us convenience.
00:20:53
Speaker
And they offer them to us saying that usually it's going to make things faster for us. But in reality, they're usually quietly taxing our brains and instead leaving us more scattered and more mentally fatigued. So I want to ask you guys, if you notice any things in your life where this task switching that claims to be multitasking or making your life more productive or faster is actually hurting your focus or making your life less convenient.
00:21:16
Speaker
I guess what comes up for me when you say that is I have a hard time, like the last couple of months I've had I'm doing physical therapy for my back and I am trying to get the puppy out for a walk. So I've had unlike pastimes in my life when I wake up and I just have sort of a day ahead of me to get through the jobs that I need to do, it's sort of broken up. And then there might be a podcast recording. Like there's just other things that are interrupting my day. And I found that my productivity is just different. Like I'm not getting into tasks that I would normally get into because I know that I have limited time.
00:21:54
Speaker
And that's sort of the opposite of what you are asking Because there's other times when if I'm in like flow, I can bop between like quickly checking email and then going back to my workshop to do something. But I think that's sort of how I work. So if I know that I have two hours, it's then easier to bounce around.
00:22:11
Speaker
I have a harder time when I know I have an interrupted day, like getting into any one thing because I know that my focus will be pulled. So that's, I mean, that's what came up for me. That's not exactly what you asked, but.
00:22:23
Speaker
No, that makes sense. What you just said, Charlotte, I agree with that. I'm the same exact way. The days when I like have this, like a Tuesday, nothing's happening because I'm just thinking about how I have to do this.
00:22:37
Speaker
I just, as you keep talking about apps, what's the big starlight thing that the the calendar that's like this digital thing that people get. Oh, that you put in your kitchen? highlight Okay. yeah So that is one of those cool pieces of technology that I look at and I'm like, I really, really think I would love this.
00:22:54
Speaker
And then I look at it again and I look at my handwritten calendar in the kitchen and I'm like, nope, I just need that calendar in the kitchen. Because the second I bring some kind of technology in the house that everyone's going to need to use and then next thing you know, it's not going sync to my husband's phone and it's not going to sync to my kid's iPad, then what, what was the point of bringing this in the house?
00:23:16
Speaker
You know, that, that drives me nuts. No, you're right, Caitlin. And then there's one too, I go to friends' houses and there's one on a iPad that like sits on their kitchen counter. Right.
00:23:28
Speaker
I don't know what the name for that is, but I've seen those too. And for me, I feel like, I guess it all sinks, but at the end of the day, It's just easier to have it for for our house too, just on our phones. And then I feel like my kids, because my email's connected, and you know how the the cloud works and everything? Like Nico can go on his iPad, I believe, because he has Joe's email connected, if this all makes sense. So he can like go on the calendar and see what's going on for that day too. Yeah, yeah. Well, when the parent whoever the parent is, the kid kind of falls underneath that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No. ah Yeah. No, I I'm, I'm with you on that. I feel like it's again, social media and society trying to make things easier, but at the end of the day, those are not. No. the pi the Do you guys have parent square? Is that what it's called for school?
00:24:28
Speaker
um What's that? It's the app that the school uses where they it's, it's both my kids schools are under it and it's like, There's the schools, then there's the students, then there's the groups. And this is where all the notifications come in. But then you also get an email.
00:24:46
Speaker
And so if I click the email and then open the app, it's like I'll get in there and see something else and start reading it and forget why I went in there in the first place. So I can't even open the app anymore.
00:24:57
Speaker
I just stick to the emails that come through ParentSquare because I get lost in the app every time I open it. There's just too, it's so disorganized. Or I feel like an old lady because sometimes, and I don't know if you all experience this, when you're going to make like your beauty appointments, like where you go for like your hair they have an app too.
00:25:15
Speaker
And sometimes I try to log on and my password's not working. And because there was like a breach and someone broke in their system and now you've got to change the password. And I just, I just pick up the phone and call. And I feel like they might get annoyed with me that I call, but I'm just like, sometimes with the email to the app and you got to change your password and then it glitches. And yeah, I, sometimes I just pick up the phone and call because the app is not helping me out.
00:25:45
Speaker
I think those organizational apps are a really good example of what you're talking about, Callie, because their purpose is right there to be more organized. But for me, I find that organization is so personal that you know I've had been in groups or I've worked with friends that are like, I use whatever, you know Asana or whatever. And if it doesn't if it's not intuitive or if it doesn't fit your workflow, then Like I'm just not gonna get into it.
00:26:14
Speaker
So it defeats the purpose and I'm still gonna have my little checklist in my journal or whatever i do and I'm never gonna sort of buy into it. So then I'm doing 2X the work and we're, i don't know, I wonder if it's a sign of age where we're not, like I definitely have like ah like a grouchy old sort of disgruntled lady living inside me where it's like new technology, um I'm not gonna do this.
00:26:37
Speaker
But I definitely, you like we have a shared Apple calendar that is a godsend because it's the only way that we would know what end is up with all of the kids. So that's, like we definitely use technology a lot, but it is, there's that funny tipping point between this is really convenient and the topic of the podcast, which is ah pain in the neck. Yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
Okay, the water is slowly dissipating here. i can I'll re-say this part if i need to. But the last part that I wanted to talk about when I think about convenience tools and one that has sort of been a thorn in my side when I think about them a lot is that I think even though they're claiming to make our lives easier,
00:27:18
Speaker
they kind of put pressure on us to be like even more productive, sort of to your point about the organization tools or even find like some of the apps that are for our kids stuff. Like it's supposed to make it easier and it's supposed to make us more productive with our time.
00:27:31
Speaker
But I find that it also... is making it so that we always have to be on. Like we, we could be sitting in bed and be like wondering about, you know, so I don't know, something from maybe one of the apps and we can literally just pick it up and do it right away. So it's like, we're never also, because of this convenience, we're never allowed to like turn any of these like 8 million hats that we wear off.
00:27:55
Speaker
And I think about that a lot with these, a lot of these convenience tools now, how it's like, you're not really ever, ah they're supposed to be making our lives easier, but they're sort of just becoming like slaves to them in some ways.
00:28:05
Speaker
Right. Like we, every activity we do is live streamed. So you can't, like, if you have a conflict, it's not as simple as like, tell me how you did when you're done. I can't make it. It's like, God, now i have to like figure out to log into some app for the live stream.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah. And then, or how about like our kids? One of my friends was talking about this. With how our kids even at school and then coming home with assignments, everything's on an app, on an iPad. What happened to like pen, like piece of paper and pencil?
00:28:36
Speaker
Do you really, like it's crazy how like a lot of stuff our kids are doing now is all on a computer or an app. There's no more papers anymore, which is... yeah kind of crazy. And I feel like it would be nice for them maybe to have a break from the screens.
00:28:50
Speaker
Did I talk about this on the podcast? I had to like rage against the machine a little bit with one of my kids at school. And i went, everything is, I think I probably did, but everything is like live on whatever app they use for grading and whatnot.
00:29:05
Speaker
But I'm not going to be monitoring that on a day-to-day basis because this is First of all, I have a bunch of kids. And also I feel like this is a relationship between my kids and their school.
00:29:16
Speaker
So I will check in with them. Have you done your homework? Like I'm not just ignoring them, but I'm also not going to go in and like see what their Spanish assignment was today because they're old enough.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah. yeah I went in, i had one kid that had a little bit of a lapse in grades because there just wasn't whatever. I found out that this child hadn't turned in an assignment for one class for like two months.
00:29:46
Speaker
And I brought this up to the teacher and I was pissed because i was like, when were you going to call? Like, these are still children. Our job is to teach them. And the teacher's response was, well, it's live grading. You need to be in there. And I was like, with all due respect, like,
00:30:02
Speaker
we've got to find a happy medium here. Like, yeah, clearly I'm not in there. Sign in there every day. So that, and um, my oldest is going to sixth grade next year. And at her end of the year conference for fifth grade, the the teacher went through like some tips from going to middle school.
00:30:17
Speaker
And one of them was, you're going to have full-time access to live grading on the parent square app. And I'm like, okay. And she goes, I'm telling you right now to pick one day, maybe every two weeks or a month that you look at it.
00:30:31
Speaker
She was because you're going to become obsessed with looking at your child's grades every single day. It's almost going to become a subconscious pop it open and see what your kid got an X, Y, and Z. She said in a lot of teachers only grade on Sundays or they only enter their grades every other Wednesday. She said, so this sounds really nice that you can look at your kids grades, but at the same time, don't do it. It's just like some, just get away from it.
00:30:57
Speaker
But to your point, Charlotte, As a former teacher, if a student hasn't turned something in and it's my responsibility to say to the child, you need to turn this in or it's going to be a zero.
00:31:09
Speaker
And it's also my responsibility as the teacher to send a note home to the parents. Hey, just a heads up. Your kid still hasn't turned in their book report. Maybe it's left on the dining room table or it fell out in your car. Do you know where it is? But like, I'm not expecting the parents to keep track of their kids stuff because the parents have enough going on Right. We have the that in our town too. It's called Power School.
00:31:32
Speaker
And there kids are logging on. And after they take a test, they'll log on like two minutes later, like the grade's already going to be up. And it's causing a lot of like anxiety and stress. And obviously the grade is not going to be put up right
Interview with Dr. Emma Seppla
00:31:48
Speaker
away. And I only really, i check it here and there, probably not nearly as much as most parents do. I mean, it's great.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's there. have that tool, but I don't, I don't check it by any means every week. And yeah. And to reiterate and everyone's point, if, if it's ah even a month, I feel like the teacher should just send a quick note. Hey, you know, I don't know if you knew this, but you know, they haven't because that gets lost in the shuffle. And who's to say to like that you, I don't know, maybe you don't even go on a computer, Charlotte. There's some people that don't use technology too.
00:32:21
Speaker
You never know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even i told you guys that Michael has a dumb phone and that was even like a thing having to get over all of the things that you're supposed to have an app for.
00:32:34
Speaker
Like we couldn't sign our kids into, we couldn't sign our kids into school because he had a smartphone. And luckily our school was, we just explained to him that he had a dumb phone and he drops the kids off. And so they were totally cool about it, but it's weird how many things like you can't do without the apps too, which is kind of frustrating. Yeah. Like you can't sign up. Like you were saying, Kelly, you can't sign up your kids for, for school without going online. You can't bring in paperwork anymore.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's all online. You have to do it. Yep. I know. I tried to sign the kids up for swim and I like went up to the front desk and I was like, Hey, I want to sign up. I'm like, you can only do that on the app. Like I can't just talk to ah ah you, a human being and sign up anymore. Okay. So I want to jump into the guest interview part of this.
00:33:19
Speaker
Why can't I think of of this episode? Thank you. going to say of this podcast and I was like, that is not the word I want of this episode. um So I was able down to sit down with Dr. Emma Seppla. She's the author of The Happiness Track and her newest book is called Sovereign, Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy and Power in a Time of Distraction.
00:33:36
Speaker
She's a leading expert on happiness and emotional well-being. Her work has been featured on The New York Times, ABC News, Good Morning America. She was a TEDx speaker So I caught up with her to chat about how chasing convenience and constant productivity may actually be making us less happy. So we will dive into that conversation now.
00:33:59
Speaker
Emma, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so glad to have you on the podcast. It's so fun to be here, Callie. I know. I'm so excited. So as I kind of told you before we jumped in, the episode that you're joining us for, the girls and I were talking about convenience illusion, which is a topic that I love.
00:34:16
Speaker
um Specifically, we were talking about all of the tools and apps in our lives that have been sold to us as something that is going to save us time. But in fact, they usually do the opposite and how the overabundance of these things tend to just put us in a state of like constantly multitasking.
00:34:31
Speaker
and constantly being turned on and feeling like we need to be turned on. And it made me think about a quote from your book, Sovereign, which I have right here, which everybody should definitely get and read. But you said, we live in a society that profits from our disconnection.
00:34:44
Speaker
So your research shows that productivity often comes when we're in a calm and present state, yet so much of our modern life is pushing us to chase constant efficiency. So how do you think this always-on mindset is affecting our actual well-being?
00:35:00
Speaker
Well, the always on mindset and all of the media that's coming at us. So we know we take in over 60,000 gigabytes of information every day. And this is an older statistic. It's about seven years old.
00:35:11
Speaker
I don't even want to know what it is now. That's enough to crash a small computer in a week. If you think about we're taking all that in and what we're actually doing most of the time, especially if we're chasing efficiency or we're chasing the next like thing that we need to do or get get through, we're actually tapping into our fight or flight.
00:35:28
Speaker
So the stress response. And it's stressful to be constantly agitated by this, that, the other that's going on or getting pinged. and you know And then we find ourselves not reacting the way we want to to people because we're actually in a stress response. and We don't even realize it.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah, i it's so it's actually so funny you said that. I have a part marked in the book and it literally is where you say most people don't realize it. but we are getting 60,000. That's literally the the quote in your book that I pulled out was how you talked about the 60,000 gigabytes.
00:36:00
Speaker
But I totally relate to what you say. Actually, we were just talking about a YouTube video that I just uploaded. And I was talking about how sometimes I feel like I'm in this fight or flight state of, it's sort of a weird balance. I think there's so much on our to-do list. And then, like you said, we're constantly getting pinged and we're constantly getting just so much information. And again, going back to the convenience illusion, a lot of it is trying to be sold to us is making our life easier.
00:36:25
Speaker
But instead, i mean, to your point, it's just completely stressing us out. Yeah. And when you look at research on when we're happiest, so they looked at, you know, oftentimes our mind is not in the present moment, right? We're either thinking about something that happened or thinking about something that's going to happen or that we need to do.
00:36:41
Speaker
But what research shows is that we're never happier than when we're right here, right now in the present moment. Because if you think about it, when your mind's in the past, a lot of the time it's in regret or anger, anger is a mind that's in the past, right?
00:36:54
Speaker
Or and when it's in the future, stress, anxiety, fear. Yes, there can be positive emotions too, but it's mostly the negative ones. And then, you know, those moments when you're totally in the present moment because you're with your child and it's this magical moment or you're in nature and you're just like, I'm on a hike and I'm with the trees and I'm feeling in the present moment That's when we're happiest.
00:37:15
Speaker
And research shows that we're happiest when we're in the present moment, even if we're doing something we don't like, like the dishes. But there's something and what all these things are doing is they're pulling us out of the present moment.
00:37:26
Speaker
And then we're wondering why we're not feeling well. And so the the trick is, let's get back. Let's get our mind back into the here and now, which is so challenging in these times. But it is so key to be able to have that emotional sovereignty, that ability to stay calm and enjoy and be with what is.
00:37:43
Speaker
I love how you said that we're happiest present even if we're doing something we don't enjoy because i i can totally relate to that. Like when I force myself to turn everything off, to put the distractions away, i can be doing something and I can be like, I feel bored doing this or ah this is not enjoyable, but that is when I feel the most calm. It's when I feel the most present, even if I'm not enjoying the task that I'm at. So my last question for you is for those people – can relate. i'm I'm sure most people can relate to what we're saying. But for those people who this is really resonating with, but are feeling a little bit trapped by the digital demands, because I think one of the biggest problems is modern society has made us feel like we have to have all of these things.
00:38:25
Speaker
What would you say is like one step that somebody could take to sort of regain that sense of sovereignty over their time and their attention?
00:38:35
Speaker
Well, if there are if you're unable to put away the slack or the you know different apps that you have, there is one way you can train your mind to be more present. And so I always recommend meditation.
00:38:46
Speaker
And I know for some people, meditation might seem like, oh my gosh, that's hard. I've tried it. It doesn't work for me. But I urge you to find the shoe that fits. There are many forms of meditation. I have a favorite app that I use every day called Sattva. It's S-A-T-T-V-A. It's totally free.
00:39:02
Speaker
And when you're meditating, you're training your mind to be in the present so that when you are, you know, in the middle of the marketplace and there's apps being thrown at you constantly, you still have that awareness of like, here I am.
00:39:17
Speaker
I've got three different apps pinging me. And i am aware. i am aware. I am not ensnared. i am not hooked in. i am not caught in them. Does that make sense? Because sometimes we have to use those apps, but being aware keeps you sovereign.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, I totally get what you mean because I can feel the same way about apps. And I feel like just sometimes stepping back and even being like, I mean, some of the apps, yes, we do need them. But even just saying like, I don't, this doesn't need to be taken care of right now. I think we have gotten into this mindset because these smartphones are in our pocket that everything is needs to be tended to right now.
00:39:56
Speaker
And I've played around with like putting my phone away and like not touching it for 12 hours and then coming back. And I'm like, everything that was here did not need me right this moment. But we get kind of caught up into this this mindset of thinking that we do.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yes. it's just It's a trap. it's It's a form of kind of enslavement if you think about it, you know? And we can pull ourselves back out of that bondage. We can pull ourselves back out with that awareness.
00:40:21
Speaker
And you know one more thing I want to share about the present moment is that if you look at who the most creative people on earth are, it's our children, right? Children that have not been put on a screen yet, who are maybe under the age of eight or 10. They're so creative and they come up with solutions. And what we're looking for in our life is solutions to the issues in our life.
00:40:39
Speaker
And when do we come up with our best solutions? People will be like, oh, it's in the shower or you know I'm driving. That's because your mind is in the present and you're calm. But if you're constantly watching something, listening something, taking in information, you're depriving yourself of being in that state, which although people might think it's idleness, is actually when your brain is in active problem-solving mode.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's when it's receptive to ideas, to new creative ideas, to solutions to problems. So the more you can disentangle yourself and become more present, do meditation, unplug, et cetera,
00:41:14
Speaker
you're actually tapping into your innovative genius. And I feel like that's one of the untapped sort of treasures in our life that we forget that we have access to. I love that. That is a great, a great spot to end on. And I feel like a great, it's great motivation to sort of ah distant, you know, to give yourself that space and sort of distance yourself from some of those things that may be consuming your time a little bit more when you stop, because there's such an easy distraction and obviously very addictive. But when you have, when you have that sort of motivation, that thing reminding you to come back, um I love that.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I know for myself, that's, I've written two books and you know, they've come to me entirely in those moments. And it's like, wow, if I had not allowed myself to have those, I wouldn't have had the ideas. So I wish for everyone to be able to have that access to their own creative, innovative sort of insight.
00:42:06
Speaker
Emma, thank you so much for joining us.
Weekly Highs and Lows
00:42:08
Speaker
Thank you, Kelly. It was fun. All right, guys, it is time when we share our pits and peaks of the week.
00:42:17
Speaker
Megan, do you want to go first? do you have a pit or a peak for us? Okay, I have a pit and a peak, okay? Okay. So I'm going to put this on and show you guys this awful pit. You know those like ads on Instagram, right?
00:42:32
Speaker
That you think you're like buying like really nice clothes from? Yeah. Okay. Now I did not order this. Joe ordered it. Okay. So this came in and. Okay.
00:42:43
Speaker
Can you see it? Yes. I mean, it looks fine, sadly. real Oh, I think you got see Wait, it's for Joe. It doesn't look like it's for for Joe. I don't know. For Joe. He ordered it. Okay.
00:42:55
Speaker
No, it looks pretty I thought it was kind of funny to share. Okay. Yeah. So we ordered from one of those apps that was like Bloomingdale's knockoff. He ordered shoes, a Pico. This came in, right? And he put it on and we were all kind of like, like, you can't, you can't wear that. Right. Like, yeah no, no it's no, it's like a Top Gun jacket, but not Top Gun. Okay.
00:43:16
Speaker
So then yesterday it was his birthday
00:43:21
Speaker
So we wrapped it and gave it to him again.
00:43:27
Speaker
So that's my pit and my pee. So now I think I might wrap it and give it to Charlotte as a belated birthday gift. You give it to Joe every year.
00:43:37
Speaker
it Give it time for Father's Day. Yes. But this is, I said to ah my family last night, I'm like, Eric's birthday is coming up like our cousin. Let's wrap it and give it to him. And then it could be like a family funny like joke thing where everyone kind of like wraps it and sends it around. But apparently I'm going to send it to Charlotte because she didn't think it was She's so great.
00:43:59
Speaker
and So it's a pit and a peak. I just had to share that. I thought it was really funny. love it. Yeah, I made that mistake once and I ordered something on, it was like a pair of clog boots or something on Instagram and they look so cute in the picture. i they were They might as well have been like a cardboard cutout of boots. They were so far removed from the picture.
00:44:16
Speaker
And so now it's like, fool me once, shame on me. Never again. I love it. Charlotte, you want to show your pitter peak? My – I'm giving a preemptive peak because I just – I have confidence that this is going to be super fun.
00:44:30
Speaker
I am going to Brimfield next week with some girlfriends. Oh, fine. And the only time I've ever been – this is not meant to be a humblebrag. It's just meant to point out that I've actually been there, but I haven't.
00:44:43
Speaker
I filmed an episode of Flea Market Flip 100 years ago, and we filmed it at Brimfield. So for the four hours that I was there, i was like – running around with a boom mic and like not paying attention.
00:44:54
Speaker
So I've never been, I'm excited to go with girlfriends. It could not be a more inconvenient week for me to go, but I'm doing it. I love that. That's so fun. I can't wait to see your videos because I know you're going to find so many treasures.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, nothing I need, but I will get them.
00:45:12
Speaker
Caitlin? So it is kind of far off, but it's I guess it's a peak. My second dance recital is going to be coming up in June. And I don't for you or me.
00:45:24
Speaker
And it's in my daughter's dance recital, obviously. But because last year, all the adults, there's three shows for our dance studio, like a morning show, afternoon show and evening show because there's just so many classes. And last year, all the adults were like, Oh, we wish we got to do that twice instead of once. So I get to do it twice this year.
00:45:43
Speaker
And I'm excited. now I feel bad that I'm ending because mine's up Pit. I always hate when we end on a pit, but I've just been having ah past like two or three days. I've just been feeling like spread too thinly with my children, like everybody needing me at a single moment.
00:45:59
Speaker
which it doesn't happen a ton. Like I really, truly, when people ask, I'm like, I find four kids easier than two. I mean, I just, the dynamic of it, I really do. But there are moments like this, like two kids were sick and then, and I just hate those, you know, sometimes it'll happen for a half hour or whatever, but I just feel like it's been a couple of days where it's like, I can literally not get to everybody who needs me.
00:46:21
Speaker
And it's just, that's always like a shitty feeling. So that's my pick. you guys have the moments as parents and we can wrap it up? Like most of the time I feel like I'm doing a fine job. Like I, I feel like I'm a, I'm a, I'm doing a good job.
00:46:34
Speaker
And then every once in a while I have a glimmer of like, Whoa, I have missed. I have missed every ball there is to miss. Like I'm just not, I'm not connecting. I'm I'm in my phone too much. I'm not playing games. Like they came home from school. I'm like, I just have a moment of like, maybe I'm not doing this well. No, I feel like that. I actually said it the other day. I said, I think I've been disassociating too much.
00:46:58
Speaker
Like I couldn't handle my middle child's big issues. And my oldest was like having a moment. And then the youngest, and I, and it's like, I shut myself off for a couple of days. And then when I came back, I was like, Oh, I feel kind of bad. I did that.
00:47:13
Speaker
but I had to, I was protecting myself. Like I couldn't. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Charlotte, but Nico always wants me to watch the Knicks games with him. And I would love to sit there and watch the Knicks game and just sit on the couch. But then who's going to make dinner? Who's going to clean up the kitchen after it's done? Who's going to put the laundry away? Who's going to make the beds?
00:47:32
Speaker
Cause no one else really does it. I mean, I wish I had the Charlotte power where I'm like, do it on your own, but it's like, I'm like buddy like I wish I could sit there like you and dad do it but mommy's got chores to do and I feel guilty because he's like you never want to sit with me and watch it I just you know and like I need to but it's just like then it's there's the mess and I should just like leave the mess for him but it's hard to yeah I have these moments where it's not like it's not even like it's been a bad week it's like nothing's any different but it's like maybe that's
00:48:04
Speaker
the way I've been parenting for the last 16 years, like maybe that isn't the answer. And like, now I've just blown it for 16 years. no. Don't doubt yourself. no um Well, it started downpouring again at my house. It's time to wrap it up here.
00:48:20
Speaker
Just but been recording this podcast in a, in a down arc. Uh-huh. It's okay. So, ah yeah. Thanks for tuning in. Leave us a review. Follow us.
00:48:31
Speaker
Send us pigeon mail. I don't know. Do all the things that people do. to you that But don't do it in a way that's inconvenient for you. That's right. We don't have an app, guys. We don't have an app. There's no apps.
00:48:43
Speaker
Remember when you used to be able to mail fan mail? You don't do that anymore. We could get a PO box and make it happen. We could. Are we officially done? Did we say an actual goodbye or did we just Do we have to?
00:48:55
Speaker
Goodbye. um by Okay, bye.