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Breaking the Silence on Maternal Mental Health
727 Plays10 days ago
In Episode 18 of Just 4 Moms, Caitlin and the crew are back with laughs, honesty, and a deep dive into a topic that impacts countless mothers—maternal mental health. They kick things off with a hilarious discussion about the lies we tell our kids (yes, stores do close at naptime), and a round of fresh “Mom Fails” that will have you nodding along in solidarity.
Then, in honor of Maternal Mental Health Month, the conversation takes a heartfelt turn as the hosts share their personal journeys through postpartum challenges—from anxiety and baby blues to the gaps in postpartum care. They’re joined by special guest Katie Crenshaw—author, speaker, and mental health advocate—who brings powerful insight into her own experience and her work with The Blue Dot Project. This episode is a must-listen for anyone who’s felt the weight of new motherhood and wondered if they were alone. Spoiler: you're not.
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
I feel so validated. I went to the eye doctor yesterday for the first time in like five years. Granted, I can't see a thing without my readers, but I just was like, I'm old. That's had the deal. She confirmed. She was like, just do what you need. Your eyes are fine.
00:00:13
Speaker
But I had a moment of like, I probably should have had an eye doctor confirm that my reading is a problem only because of my age. And she finally did. Yay. Wait, so you've not always worn reader? Like- No, I have 20, 20 vision still, but my reading just, I mean, everyone's does around 40. They say it's just, I don't know why, yeah but yeah, I had the LASIK done 15 years ago and they were saying like, yeah I might have to have it redone again.
00:00:47
Speaker
It only lasts for so long. Like you were saying, as you get older now that I'm 43, your eyes change. Good luck guys. Welcome to Just For Moms. I'm Charlotte. I'm Caitlin.
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner. Again, no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. All right,
00:01:20
Speaker
well, you know what? Here we are, guys. We are in episode 18. That is such a Big number, huh? We're legal adults now.
Parenting Challenges and Small Lies
00:01:31
Speaker
Oh, we are. Our podcast can buy cigarettes. That's still the age. Isn't it? I don't know. Is it not 21? I don't know. It's been a while since I've. I know, right? I thought it was like cigarettes and go to war. And i vote. At 18. No? Yeah.
00:01:47
Speaker
no yeah It clearly wasn't a smoker. We can't rent a car for another two months, but that's fine. Yeah, it's fine. ah so this week I am here with Megan and Callie and Charlotte, like I always am.
00:02:01
Speaker
I want to start off our conversation with a little chat about lying and the lies that we tell our children to make our lives easier.
00:02:11
Speaker
Because I saw something shared the other day on Upworthy and it was and that it was just people submitting the lies that they tell their kids. So do you have any good lies that you've ever told your children?
00:02:24
Speaker
So my kids are still little, so I can get away with like, like my children still think that restaurants and stores close at dinnertime because everyone has to go home and have dinner and and go to bed. I'm not going to be able to hold on to that one too much longer, but I mean, that's still, you know, I'm, I'm able to get away with like the little fibs still, you know, the playground closes at nap time. Yes.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yes. I mean, i lie about anytime we're in the car and the kids are doing something that's distracting, I say, if I get pulled over, i'm going to be arrested. And then you won't have a mom because I'll be in jail.
00:02:56
Speaker
So that usually works.
00:03:00
Speaker
I love it. Megan, do you lie to your children? Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
00:03:08
Speaker
So I feel like I did the park thing, like Callie, the snack bar, you know, is the snack bar still open? No, it's closed. Now it's when I get text items to order from my teenagers, like get me this, get me that for this, you know, can you order me this? Sometimes there's a p please and a thank you, which is wonderful.
00:03:27
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, it's sold out, you know, because like I'll get to it a few days later and it's not sold out. I just don't want to. you know, order it. I don't like, let's save a little bit here and there. So I feel like with the, the texts I get from my teenagers of items, they would like ordered for their wardrobe.
00:03:45
Speaker
And I have gotten caught where it's like, no, it's, it's like, they have it in that size. I'm like, oh, they must've done a restock.
00:03:53
Speaker
Oh, well, good. Charlotte, you look like you don't lie. you just tell your truth. I lie in the moment. I was trying to think about any recurring lies that I have versus just the like day-to-day. And the only recurring ones that I can think of are like kind of a lie, but they're also just kind of true. So all of the devices that my kids have, so for the little ones, they have those Kindle fires. And then the two or three older ones, when they're 13, they get a phone.
00:04:19
Speaker
But we have like security measures for all of those, like the Kindle, there's parent accounts so you can control what they can and can't do Same with their iPhones.
00:04:30
Speaker
And I've always just sort of said, i manage enough in this house. And so that's been my husband's arena. Now, listen, could I figure out how to get in and navigate all of these things?
00:04:43
Speaker
Yes. In fact, I do know how to do the Amazon, but every time they're like, can you have, can you give me more app time? You know, if there's a holiday on a Tuesday, can you give me more app time? Can you do, my answer is always, that's your dad. I don't know call your dad.
00:04:56
Speaker
I don't know how to do it. Call your dad. Same with chess. I sort of know how to play chess, but not enough that it's fun. And so I don't know how to play chess either. Yes. and like that. I love My husband and I just had this discussion because my, one of my children,
00:05:12
Speaker
let's tells little fibs, like little white lies, like nothing that's alarming. And I remember growing up telling like little fibs, like, you know, about like, oh yeah, I only had one piece of chocolate when I had two, like nothing life altering.
00:05:24
Speaker
But Michael is like honest Abe. Like if Michael tells you something, it is the truth. Like this man does not lie. Like will not, like I remember once coming home from the grocery store and there was like one extra, like literally like a block of cheese and he will go back to the grocery store and be like, I did not pay for this block of cheese.
00:05:40
Speaker
So it's so alarming to him that this child fibs a little bit. And I remember like, and I was like, yeah, but I i don't know. So we kind of had this whole discussion about fibbing. like He's like, we have a sociopath in the house. yeah Yeah. He was like, should we be so concerned? They're going to grow up and, you know.
00:05:57
Speaker
Very honest man. I like that, Kelly. Very honest. Yes. If he tells you something, it's the truth. I think for kids, it's a funny stage where they're just trying to like make sense of the world around them. So it's like, what can I get away with? What can I like? There's a power that comes from it. It's like I remember in those child psychology classes I took being like, that's sort of an hilarious stage of development when your brain is just figuring out the world.
00:06:21
Speaker
That is my toddler right now. She's a real trip. So ah moving on to mom fails. I'm just going to start off an easy one that I feel like you can all relate to. We were traveling and came home and somehow all of the toothbrushes have been lost.
00:06:36
Speaker
So where do they go? i i don't know. And my husband was yelling last night. Where where is Arbor's toothbrush? I'm like, i don't know. why am i Why is this my problem?
00:06:47
Speaker
Maybe you lost it. Yeah, there's four other – well, I'll let Arbor off the hook. There's three other people that have seen or possibly responsible for this. Give them yours, Brandon.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah.
Travel Mishaps and Navigational Errors
00:06:59
Speaker
Let Arbor use yours. Yeah. Yeah. Take control. Charlotte, do you have a mom fail this week? Kind of. I mean, I just can't keep up with all these kids.
00:07:11
Speaker
One of my kids came down the other day – a pair of shorts that were so tight and it wasn't like that was the preference. They were so tight. And I was like, whoa, those look a little small. And they're like, yeah, they're the only ones I have left. I don't have any other shorts left.
00:07:27
Speaker
And, you know, I was like, you need to just give me a heads up. Like we can do something about this, but I, I fear that this one child has no clothing for the upcoming warm weather. So I need to get in there and figure it out.
00:07:40
Speaker
Callie or Megan? I don't think I had wrote one. I mean, not that I haven't had. I think that the excess of mom fails I've had in the last week just have compounded over that my brain can't think of one. So go ahead, Megan.
00:07:51
Speaker
So when we were just traveling for spring break, I usually log us in, check us in for the flight. And I was, you know, probably doing 8 million things to get us out of the house for the flight. So I said to ah Joe, can you just do it?
00:08:09
Speaker
Bad. Yeah. I don't want a husband bash, but, uh, so we had seats when we booked the flight. And then when you check in, you need to always make sure they're there and somewhat.
00:08:23
Speaker
Right. So the five of us were in all different spots of the airplane and he didn't, and I never looked at it cause just figured we were checked in. So we go to get on the plane and I'm like, where's, where are we all sitting? Like, and Nico's like, I want to sit with dad. And i and he's showing me the tickets and I'm like,
00:08:40
Speaker
we So none of us are together? Like, I wish I knew because I would have, like, gone to the front desk or, like, you know, tried to figure this out. So, I mean, someone did move. So ni so at least Nico, you know, because he needs someone to sit next to.
00:08:55
Speaker
So that worked out. Thank God the man. Because, you know, technically they don't have to move. No. no So, yeah. So, and then the girls are older. They're teenagers. It was fine. But I was just like...
00:09:09
Speaker
It's one of those moments when you're like, you i i on your behalf, I would take responsibility too, and you just literally said it. But it's also like, I didn't think that we needed to remind another adult to do the thing that seems very, very obvious and common sense. But those moments make me the craziest when it's like, did I ask him if he had confirmed the seats? No, yeah I didn't think they were there, but apparently- And the best part also was the TSA pre-check number was in for the kids and I and not him either.
00:09:39
Speaker
But when you do the reservation, but again, you always have to check this stuff even because, you know, the systems, all this. So then we had to go in two different lines. I was like, I'm not waiting in that line.
00:09:50
Speaker
I went with the kids. I'm not taking my shoes off and taking all my – No. No. I mean, you know, i feel like a lot of other wives would have, oh, I'll wait with you, honey, not me. ah Unless it was maybe just the two of us traveling. Not with children, though. yeah Absolutely not.
00:10:09
Speaker
It's like, I hope I make it. I'm like, yeah, I hope you make it too.
00:10:15
Speaker
See you there.
00:10:18
Speaker
Oh, that cracks me up. Yeah. There's not many things that, you know, no offense to my husband that I'll let him be in charge of. Not even this isn't, I'm now we're just on this path. I have to go down it. We're getting the car and we're all going to Cape Cod with my mom and my mother-in-law recently.
00:10:36
Speaker
and i am in the third row. With my daughter. And then the row in front of me. no i don't have a choice. The row in front of me is my mother, my middle child and my toddler. And then the two people on the front seat is my mother-in-law and my husband.
00:10:51
Speaker
Now, riddle me this. Why is the person in the third row who can't even hear or speak to anyone being asked to, to put in the GPS where to go? So, so I'm like, listen, just type in whatever into your phone, plug your phone in And he's driving through the neighborhood while he's trying to do this. I'm like, just pull over the car and let's, let's just figure it out.
00:11:13
Speaker
We are 45 minutes into this trip. And he's like, don't understand how it's not going to take us that long and blah, bla blah, blah, blah. And where are we going? And why are we going this way? heyn do you know why, do you remember driving this way last time we went here? And I'm like,
00:11:31
Speaker
ah ah excuse me, can you turn the music down? I have no idea what you're saying. Give me your phone. He typed in. oh God. ah Like we were going to Ocean Edge in Brewster, Mass. And he typed in Ocean Edge and it was taking us to Cape Netic in Maine.
00:11:48
Speaker
Right? Cape Netic's in Maine. i mean, at least it wasn't New Jersey. You were sort of- I was headed north-ish. Yeah, the opposite direction. So we only lost, believe it or not, like 20 minutes, maybe 15, 20 minutes of the trip.
00:11:59
Speaker
But I was kind of- ah just like, just in disbelief. Like, ah yeah do I need to be the co-pilot? Why didn't the co-pilot notice that you had the wrong address in there?
00:12:11
Speaker
And why am I in? We drove down to DC. We've driven down, dare I say, dozens of times. I looked up at one point, we hadn't even gone over the GW bridge and we were not where we were meant to be. And I was like,
00:12:27
Speaker
I didn't think I needed to be navigating to get us to the GW Bridge. Like, this is a human that grew up in Connecticut. That GW Bridge has probably been hundreds of times. At some point between here and the GW Bridge,
00:12:39
Speaker
Just the wrong turn. I don't think it added a ton, but I was like, is this where we're at? They just don't pay attention. Yeah. I don't Yeah. Well. We digress.
00:12:50
Speaker
We digress. Yeah. I'm glad I got that off chest. What I love is like, you know how we had the whole discussion about MapQuest and ah how we used to actually use real maps? And like there's been, I mean, age old experience.
00:13:02
Speaker
joke about the wife with the husband and the map and the whatever. they i think that women of generations past would be happy to know that even with with GPS in our phone, they still can't figure out.
00:13:14
Speaker
Still going to the wrong place. yeah But not us. Not us. Not us four. Nope. I know where I'm going from the third row. Not even driving. So ah this month we are talking. I do feel like an audience member mentioned it in passing at some point.
Maternal Mental Health: Awareness & Challenges
00:13:34
Speaker
I think she asked something if we could talk a little bit about baby blues. I could be making this up, but May is maternal health, mental health month. And there's a whole week that's already passed once you're listening to this.
00:13:49
Speaker
And mental health, as you know, is like one of my just platforms that I stand on. And so when I said, like, maybe we could talk about this, Callie said, okay, cool. But what is PMH, right? Is that what you said to me? What is PMH? so you sent me a link You sent me a link to the website. To this website. And PMH was on there. And I, myself, was like, i don't know, personal mental history. So let me look this up.
00:14:17
Speaker
And I learned a lot. So first, let me say that Maternal Mental Health Month is actually more, it's, it's, more about perinatal mental health and perinatal versus postpartum are two different things because perinatal includes the time period for which that you are pregnant and all the way up to two years after you have the baby where postpartum is just, I think we all kind of think postpartum is this, I don't know, however many months after you have a child, but
00:14:48
Speaker
It's important to understand that a lot of mental health issues that end up coming up after someone gives birth to a child may have started during pregnancy and you just don't know you're in this big hormonal rush of life.
00:15:05
Speaker
And so I said, you know, i I realized I wanted to look up some statistics and see how common this is because I was like, everyone has some sort of baby blues, but baby blues are much different.
00:15:18
Speaker
than actual anxiety or depression, or even some of the scarier things that can, can unfortunately happen after a woman has a child. So the world health organization states that 10% of pregnant women and 13% of women who have just given birth experience a mental disorder, primarily depression, which that's a big number. and it's, it's frightening.
00:15:42
Speaker
And what's even more frightening is in developing countries, this is even higher. So 15.6% during pregnancy and 19.8% after childbirth. I went as far to see, you know, they there are many reasons why a lot of these go um like misdiagnosed. And Charlotte, I think you had mentioned this too. You you were were going to kind of talk about this a little bit, but in terms of just mental health services, but i
00:16:13
Speaker
i I want to say it was 50%. I somehow deleted the statistics. 50% of women are not diagnosed with any type of mental health disorder after having a child because it's either missed, there' there's a stigma that they're too ashamed to bring it up to someone so they don't talk about it.
00:16:31
Speaker
And sometimes it just trickles away and they forget about it. And unless you have another child and go through it again, it's just, ah just you know, something happened. There were those like five months where I felt awful after a baby and then it just goes away. But, you know, um the mission of Maternal Mental Health Month this month is storytelling and raising awareness.
00:16:55
Speaker
So I just wanted to talk about it on the show today, hear your experiences with it and encourage anyone listening to not be quiet if you don't feel right at any point during pregnancy or after childbirth, because, you know, it's it's more common than you think.
00:17:12
Speaker
Did you guys find that your, and I'm already fuzzy, this is, you know, my youngest is almost 10. Do you find that your healthcare care providers, and I guess it would be a tag team of possibly a pediatrician because you see them more often, and your OBGYN, like was that front of mind? Do you feel like your doctors were asking you anything other than how do you feel?
00:17:37
Speaker
Or, you know, I find that question can be so unbelievably overwhelming. Thankfully, i i didn't identify with anything too scary after, you know, I had a week of just like the hormone highs and the physical fatigue where I always ah was a little tender, but I don't have anything that I think triggered postpartum depression or anything.
00:17:58
Speaker
But I also, if I had like the most overwhelming question for me as a human and as a new mom was, how are you? Like, I don't, don't know how to answer that. The pediatrician, this, my last pregnancy, the this is the first postpartum period where the pediatrician, every single appointment that I went to for my child There was a questionnaire for the child and a questionnaire for the mother all the way up until her first birthday.
00:18:25
Speaker
And I was going often and i had, I know that her pediatrician very, very well, cause my other two daughters see her too. And so it got to the point, even if it was a sick visit, she didn't say, how are you doing? She would say, okay, how's the baby's appetite and his mom eating? How's baby sleeping and his mom sleeping kind of in this weird like get me talk kind of way. And there were times when I did open up and cried to her about one thing or another. And then she would ask, you know, are you talking to anybody else? And I would, you know, tell her, I'll talk more about my experience later, but that's the first time. in I mean, my oldest is 11 that pediatrician said, by the way, let's do you a questionnaire for you too. Callie, did you, does your pediatrician ask?
00:19:18
Speaker
We have a questionnaire that we answer. and um I'm going to be honest, I don't really know what happens if you your answers come back not good. i remember with my, the only um child that I experienced like any postpartum issues with was with my first. And I think in retrospect, I probably suffered from some postpartum anxiety. And so I do remember answering some of those questions. Like it's like a scale of like one to three. And I don't know,
00:19:43
Speaker
one is good and three is not so I do remember answering some of them skewed but it obviously was not enough that like it triggered them to be like this is a problem I remember talking to a friend who had postpartum depression with her second and she like had answered them all is not that great and then they basically were just like okay well you should probably see somebody about that You know mean? So like, I think some of it also just depends on the pediatrician that you have too. It's like, so they have you answer these questions, which is great. I do think there's a lot more awareness about it. I know that my husband was spoken to at every time I was discharged in the hospital, but then it, you know, then sometimes it's still kind of put back on you to be like, okay, are you, perhaps you know, you're not in a place like I, ah especially when
00:20:27
Speaker
you know, early postpartum, like I couldn't even get to like a dentist, let alone like now I'm trying to, I need to find somebody for. So I think that's the kind of problem I have with it right now. I think that there is a lot of awareness about it. And I do think people are talking about it.
00:20:40
Speaker
I do. Like I said, I think that um husbands are a lot more aware about it because they speak to them in hospitals. But even that one I think is tricky, you know, especially with my husband, like One, he's equally sleep deprived and there's like this new baby in his home too. And he doesn't know what's hormone, you know, i mean, like, I don't know that we should be putting that on, on a husband, he might be able to be like, she's acting a little different, but there's so many other variables happening there.
00:21:08
Speaker
that a medical provider or maybe somebody else who is, you know, in other countries, they have like doulas that come in and visit you postpartum. That is a woman who could be like, this is abnormal postpartum because, you know, behavior, because also ah husband is told, you know, she's going to act different. She might be a little weepy, like he's not a medical person. And now he's supposed to know if this is a problem or not. So I think that's um what I worry about with it is that There's not a lot of, we talk about it a lot, but i don't know if there's a lot of action that happens when a woman is actually in distress and in need.
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah, i I want to say that questionnaire that we filled out would go into the MyChart and it was supposed to link with my OBGYN. But i don't I don't know any more than that because I'm different. i'm I'm just different than other. I was already talking to somebody and I was talking to my OBGYN.
00:22:01
Speaker
Other women, you go in there and you are tired and you do fill out this sliding scale about how are you feeling today? Well, there's a difference between the the baby blues and and an actual mental health disorder because of the time period for how long it goes.
00:22:17
Speaker
And at what point are women just accepting, maybe this is my new normal. Maybe I'm just not happy. Maybe I was never meant to be a mom and they don't realize that they're actually just it can't, you can be helped.
00:22:30
Speaker
This isn't a permanent way that you're going to think and feel it can be reversed. It can, you know, there's a cure in in some sense, but what's sad is, you know, Callie, like you said, there, there's a lot of, there, there's a lot of factors that, you know limited access you to services or what if your insurance doesn't cover it, but also what mom wants to go online and try to look up someone to talk to.
00:22:58
Speaker
I mean, that just sounds awful. You barely have time to do your dishes. yeah No, no it should just be part it should just be part of the system because you're not making choices or motivating to do much of anything.
00:23:11
Speaker
Certainly, like, I don't know, finding a new therapist on a good day is Herculean, much less when you're trying to figure out like nursing and all of the other things. You know, I guess we were talking about it when we were talking about bodies after baby, how No one spoke to me. I mean, first of all, no one spoke to my husband about the baby blues. i mean, it was literally don't shake the baby and good luck.
00:23:31
Speaker
And so, I mean, I hear your point, Callie, but he also wouldn't have even known. No. yeah And I certainly, you know, I don't know that I would have known if it got to be bad. I mean, the times that I've gone into therapy when I was little, it was often because friends were like, you seem really down, like more down than normal. I mean, now I've gotten better.
00:23:54
Speaker
about it. But when I was younger, I didn't think anything was that off. So I, I know, it bums me out that like physical postpartum care and mental, it should just be part of the system.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I feel like with Ava and Gianna, 15 and 13, almost here, I don't remember anyone really talking to me about it at all with Nico a little. And now like Caitlin, we've become friends. So I see what you went through.
00:24:23
Speaker
And I'm hoping that today it's better for moms, but like, I don't remember anyone really like talking to me or asking me about me. It was just, I felt like it was just about the baby, you know? And like my husband's, he's a builder. So he, it's, he didn't work for a corporate job, so he had no time off. So it was like, here I came home with my first baby and it was like, I did have like my mom who came to visit here and there, but she has her own life. yeah.
00:24:53
Speaker
It was sort of like, figure it out. He went back to work. I don't know, maybe like a day or two after we got home. I mean, I'm sure I could have asked him to stay home if I really needed that extra help, but I don't know. Is is it even helpful?
00:25:08
Speaker
Well, it's not, yeah, it's not helpful if you're, I mean, my husband didn't know what to do with me. So after Arbor, my therapist, I was like, you know, we'll take a, I'll take a little maternity leave. I don't need to talk to you. But if I feel like i need to talk to you, I'll contact you. Well, eight weeks in, I remember our first appointment and she said, oh my gosh, congratulations. Let me see her. How you doing? And I was just emotionless.
00:25:32
Speaker
And she's like, are you okay? I was like, no, like I could start crying thinking about it now because she was like, why didn't you call me? And I'm like, cause it was actually harder.
00:25:44
Speaker
It was harder to admit. Yes. yeah how dark of a place I was in and like the scary things that I was thinking that I didn't want to tell anybody.
00:25:55
Speaker
i mean, that's the worst part about depression is that you're just paralyzed. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, and I kept getting sick. So I was like on all these antibiotics. And then I remember I was quarantined in my room, everyone had COVID and they wouldn't let me out of my bedroom. And so guys is this when you had COVID too, Caitlin?
00:26:12
Speaker
I didn't know. didn't know. This was just years later. But my girls had it and they were like, your baby can't be around it. So you need to be in your room for five days. it It was yeah bad. It was bad.
00:26:24
Speaker
um yeah But you know. Yeah. Like you said, Caitlin, that doctor probably should have followed up with you versus She was trying. She texted me. She did? oh yeah Okay. I can't talk badly about her. She was checking in all the time. I was sending pictures, but she didn't know.
00:26:39
Speaker
Because I wouldn't, I didn't want to talk about it. You know, you also kind of don't want to rip off a bandaid and look at a wound. You're like, I'm just going to keep covering this up because it's going to pass. And I, well, it's hard therapy and talk like, it's a hard.
00:26:53
Speaker
And so if you're already exhausted, you're like, maybe tomorrow will be better. I'm just going to watch Grey's Anatomy and like feed this baby and hope for the best. Yeah. Yeah. It's harder to talk about It it it really is. Yeah. and Then it's harder just to say nothing and just act like every, yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
So my sister was just saying, my nephew is four, about to be four, and she was saying that in her personal therapy journey, they were like, were you ever diagnosed with anything?
00:27:19
Speaker
And she's like, you know, I've had anxiety, i have a little depression here and there. And they're like, no, but after you had the baby, let's talk about this. she She's still dealing with postpartum anxiety. It's technically not postpartum because she's so far out, but it was never dealt with and addressed while she was pregnant.
00:27:36
Speaker
after she was pregnant and no one was asking her anything. You know, it was just like, you're paranoid, your baby's sick, you're paranoid, you're sick, it'll pass.
00:27:46
Speaker
And so when a mental health disorder goes untreated, it it's like a, it's not good.
00:27:56
Speaker
Well, and I think it's exacerbated even more in this realm of maternal mental health, because The entire world has told us that this is going to be the most joyful time of our lives.
00:28:07
Speaker
And God forbid you have a different opinion about that. You have the added pressure of like, why what is wrong with me that I feel differently? Why am I broken? Everyone's coming to your house and like, the baby's so beautiful. You look like everyone around you is telling you that things are fine.
00:28:22
Speaker
And you know contrary to popular belief, a whole bunch of people telling you everything is okay isn't how it works. But I think it just adds to the pressure of it all. Yeah, I feel like when you and if you have a friend who has a baby at the same time as you and they're not going through any kind of scary stuff, it makes you hide what you're feeling even more because then you feel a ashamed.
00:28:44
Speaker
You know, like um i actually can't stand to hear the baby cry. i can't stand it. And I want to leave my house. And if you were to say that to someone who's like, I love everything my baby does, then you kind of feel like I'm a piece of shit, you know, but you're not. You can't. Yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
yeah So I, you know, Callie, I feel like you said you, you felt like you maybe had experienced something after your first, but not your other three. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I experienced some postpartum anxiety after my first.
00:29:17
Speaker
And I just like I remember a moment of like, I don't think that like I ever relaxed until like he was almost a year old. Like I remember once we started putting him down for bed at night, like he was like three months old and like he wasn't going to bed with us.
00:29:32
Speaker
And Michael's like, how about we watch a movie? And I just remember like my heart racing, like I couldn't catch a breath. Like I was a short of breath, like, cause like the idea of sitting down and doing nothing just felt, i mean, like my, they just killed the baby.
00:29:47
Speaker
When miles was born, it was like, there was tons of nursing problems. I was pumping. I was breastfeeding. I was formula. I mean, there were bottles. Like I was just always on all of the time. I had to wake them up every two hours to eat.
00:29:58
Speaker
So like, I think that it pushed me into that. And i mean, for me, I think luckily it was probably a mix of once I finally stopped breastfeeding and then like my hormones like eventually tapered off.
00:30:11
Speaker
um But I remember, I mean, I just was worried about everything. I never felt like I could turn myself off. I never felt like I could relax. Like I could not even sit and watch a TV show and be for that to be enjoyable at all.
00:30:26
Speaker
it It sucks. I mean, yeah you know, think what's what's kind of a good thing is that you do forget about it. I mean, like, you know, I always wonder if other people if people have it after their first, do you have something else happen again after your second and third? And all of my experiences are different. My first, yeah I didn't have any type of anxiety until I weaned my first.
00:30:47
Speaker
And that was just the crash of all the hormones. And then we were done. And then my second, it was the same thing. But my third... I did not see it coming either. i was just like, and here we are and in the darkness, you know, and there's so many resources out there while I was researching statistics for this, just website after website, but it's overwhelming.
00:31:08
Speaker
There's yeah so much. And if you're not feeling great and you're like, okay, let me go take a, let me go take a survey and see if I need help. It's like, I don't know.
00:31:20
Speaker
I don't know. and And who do you call? You know, you want to call your OBGYN and tell them, I think something's wrong with me, but then they're going to say you know, so it's, it's tricky. It's, it's very, very tricky. And um yeah, no, I think it's hard because it's like, sort of like, even like you mentioned, it's one of those things where it's like, you're, it's almost like you have to self advocate for yourself in a time where it's almost impossible to self advocate for yourself.
00:31:45
Speaker
And then you don't know what is normal and what's just, I mean, we know that our home runs are crashing right after giving birth. We know that they're changing with breastfeeding. We know now that there's like, isn't there typically a crash again after like four months?
00:31:59
Speaker
when When is like, there's like a comp three months. It's like a common time that postpartum depression can come around again. And then again, when you wean, like we know all of this, but. I think, you know, if you're in it and now you're trying to like self-diagnose yourself, I think that's just a, it's a tricky thing. And I think it's good. I think that we are, i mean, based on what Charlotte and Megan, what you have said, based on the experiences that I've had having children just in the last few years, I do think there's more awareness.
00:32:26
Speaker
Like, I think they do a better job of making sure the people around us are like kind of at least looking out for stuff. But I still don't know that, again, like I said at the beginning, that there's enough action, you know, that's actually taking place. It's just like this kind of chat and we're talking about it.
00:32:43
Speaker
And I could go into a whole spiel about how I think that postpartum care needs to be fixed in this country. Well, it's down that road. maybe But I think a lot of it falls into the realm of mental health. And we do a shitty job of dealing with mental health in our insurance system to begin with.
00:33:00
Speaker
So any, so you know, anyone who's had to have therapy, you know, what a what a job that is to get any of it covered by insurance. And when you're dealing with mental health, there's very rarely like a right or a wrong, a black or a white, like it is a nuance. And so I think all of us go into pregnancy and postpartum and we know that it's going to be a rollercoaster. We know that this is going to be messy and all over the place and erratic. And I think it's very easy because we're tired and out of it to be like, well, this is just the deal. I signed up for it.
00:33:33
Speaker
And it's hard to your point about self-diagnosing, like the difference between just going through a hard time and having it be, you know, a medical disorder is how much it's affecting your day to day. And that's a nuance.
00:33:44
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, The human condition has anxiety. All of us have anxiety. That doesn't mean we have an anxiety disorder because most of us can move through the world and it doesn't get in the way. But when you can't watch TV because your heart is racing and you're so worried about, you know, what your child is doing in the back room, that's very different than every new parent on the planet that is worried that their kid's going to stop breathing the first time they put them to sleep in the crib alone, you know? And like that, it's easy to talk yourself out of it because of everything we've just said. It's hard. Nobody wants to go to...
00:34:15
Speaker
therapy, you don't want to leave the house. Like there's no incentive to do it. No, there isn't. and And I, I hate to blame. now ah don't hate it. Um, I do blame, i feel like any OBGYN should, that should be your, you should be calling The mom.
00:34:35
Speaker
I mean, my OB did call me, I remember, six weeks after. Six weeks? Two weeks after and six weeks after. but then that was it. like That was just for Arbor though, right?
00:34:46
Speaker
No, my OB, b my doctor, to call and check in on me. But like, yeah maybe he's- No, but she's saying only postpartum with Arbor? or Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Postpartum with Arbor. Yeah, wasn't the first two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:57
Speaker
And like, who's to say really this bubble survey is going to do it? You know, I feel like, you know, you have to like, visually speak to someone and they can like see it, you know, like your fear and what you're going through versus just filling out something. And who's to say to some moms are filling it out and lying because they're embarrassed, you know? Right.
00:35:17
Speaker
I'm hoping to have a guest who is going to be an actual medical professional whose brain I can pick on this because i would like some insight into how people could, how this could change.
00:35:30
Speaker
I mean, even if it's starting at the community level, what communities can do for women, because I think that that's important. And I mean, starting from small and then growing because you're not going to change an entire country. Well, it also makes me sad. And then I know we need to move on. Like we're four white women in Connecticut that are talking about this. Like, God forbid you're a person in another part of the country, a woman of color, like all of this is diagnosed on such a lower degree.
00:36:01
Speaker
And it just, it's heartbreaking to think about how many women have children in this country. And you know, it's like, it's not even questioned. No. And I, and I'm,
00:36:11
Speaker
I'm thinking of younger younger women. yeah And, you know, to be honest with you too, sometimes you see these stories on the news of these mothers. I know we' it's been through the news where they're going through depression and, you know, they've drowned their children or done certain things. And I have to be honest, like I see them and I'm just like, it's horrible. but I'm like, wow, like there is a point where like after you have these kids, you just feel crazy.
00:36:35
Speaker
It's nuts. Swizz beepine. I think there may be someone in my driveway delivering something for the neighbor. Sorry. I just want make sure your house isn't on fire.
00:36:47
Speaker
ah Do you need to leave? Yeah. Are we good? I know. Sorry. yeah Beeping and dogs. Better now. Sorry. but yeah i don't our Well, our neighbors, we we our houses are all here on top of us. there's They were getting some. You know, the the trucks, the Amazon trucks make like animal noises and like, you know, like all this weird things now. So it's like. So true.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, that was just a delivery truck. Oh. It's aggressive beeping for that. That is. Like you had a sleeping baby and wake it up, I'd go out there with a broom and just wail them. Yeah, do you ever, heat like it sounds like a dead raccoon.
00:37:23
Speaker
I know. You're talking about the animal. When they back up. You're like, what does that sound?
Community Support & The Blue Dot Project
00:37:34
Speaker
Today on the Just for Moms podcast, we're honored to welcome a truly powerful voice in the world of maternal mental health, Katie Crenshaw. Katie is a bestselling author, public speaker, and mental health advocate who has been courageously sharing her own journey through perinatal and postpartum depression to help break the stigma surrounding maternal mental health.
00:37:50
Speaker
She's here with us today, not only as a fellow mom, but also as a passionate ambassador for the Blue Dot Project, a national campaign dedicated to raising awareness and supporting those navigating mental health challenges during and after pregnancy.
00:38:05
Speaker
So hi, Katie, thank you for coming on Thanks for having me. Yes, I'm really excited you're here. So I guess I should allow you to explain what the blue dot and PSI is before we continue. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah, so the blue dot is the symbol for perinatal mental health survivorship, support, and solidarity. The goal is to raise awareness for perinatal mental health disorders, um kind of proliferate the blue dot as a symbol of solidarity and support, and fight stigma and shame, of course.
00:38:37
Speaker
So our mission is always to just kind of create solidarity, tell stories, and make it more well-known as a symbol, kind of like the pink ribbon is for breast cancer.
00:38:49
Speaker
I love that. For anybody that has never heard your story before, I highly recommend you take a peek into Katie's everything, her website, her social media. She has her platform is just so empowering for women on all different levels, not just maternal mental health, but motherhood and children. And she is fantastic. But can you look back and think about the first time you started talking about your own perinatal mental health experience, um just everything. Was there a specific moment or event that pushed you to seek help or helped you realize that you actually weren't alone?
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah, actually, it's why I started my entire blog and content creation. um i have three children in my oldest is 15. was really young. i was 23 when I had him. ah And looking back, for sure, had like postpartum issues and perinatal issues mentally.
00:39:47
Speaker
but didn't really have enough knowledge and to know what was going on back then or even if there was help available. um And like I suffered from a some some some kind of anxiety and depression like most of my life. And at that point, I had never been treated, never seen a therapist or anything.
00:40:05
Speaker
um And I was in healthcare care before I was in marketing and content. So I worked in labor and delivery for a long time and I was a certified doula in addition to that. So I was kind of in that world.
00:40:17
Speaker
I worked in labor and delivery when I got pregnant with my second child six years after my first. And I was working night shift and she was a really difficult baby, kind of like didn't have a plan for how we could make my job keep working. So the best idea was like to stay home.
00:40:35
Speaker
And I, that wasn't my goal in life. Like a lot of people want to do that. I just didn't want to do that, but it made the most sense for our family. And I was like, okay, I need some sort of creative outlet.
00:40:49
Speaker
And at the time, you know, I have been a hobbyist, like blogger and photographer for years. And i decided to just kind of go full force into that. And at that time, my goal was to get some of my writing resources.
00:41:00
Speaker
in the public, like Scary Mommy and Huffington Post and things like that. And, and then those things kind of happened first. And this was when social media was just starting to get popular, like especially Instagram and things like that. And i realized it was a lot of Pinterest, like picture perfect era.
00:41:20
Speaker
ah Nobody's really talking about anything hard. And I, was like, well, I'm going talk about it and see if anybody wants to talk about it. So, and I had been remarried at that point and was struggling with maternal mental health stuff. Um, I was medicated at that point.
00:41:36
Speaker
Um, so for my second, my last two pregnancies, I was medicated and getting treatment. And so I just started talking about that stuff and people immediately latched on. It was getting shared in Facebook groups and things. And I was like, OK, people want to talk about this. so i just started opening up more about it.
00:41:54
Speaker
um And then that just kind of evolved. It was empowering to find someone who is openly talking about their experience with their mental health issues, ah especially related to being a woman and a mother.
00:42:07
Speaker
you know, it can be very lonely. And before social media like was really much of anything, you weren't talking to anybody about it because it's just, you aren't going to stop somebody in the grocery store and be like, Hey, but it's scary, especially because of the cultural, like group mom shaming. Everybody's afraid to be judged as a mother at our core. Um, it's, it's scary. And, um, and also,
00:42:33
Speaker
You don't, I mean, the resources are limited for for moms. Like, it's hard to get treatment with your baby in tow. um There are some, like, prototype facilities around the country that are popping up, not fast enough, but that have, like, nurseries and childcare, which that's cool because one of the biggest fears moms have is getting separated from their babies, especially when they're, like, nursing.
00:42:54
Speaker
Like, how am I going to get help? and still get to stay with my baby. And then there's the fear of like people calling the police, people, you know, people who aren't educated. And that's why the blue dot project is creating blue dot safe spot, which is going to hopefully bridge the gap where like medical offices support staff, any, up any provider that deals with new moms will have like specific perinatal mental health trainings that they have like the appropriate knowledge and support to give patients and they'll have like resources. And so it's not like, whoa, I've never heard of this and I'm freaked out. Let me call CPS or whatever.
00:43:29
Speaker
um so yeah, so so hopefully a lot of good things are going to happen in that regard and people will be more apt to show up for help. I think that's very encouraging.
00:43:40
Speaker
What role does community online or in person play in a mom's mental health journey? I think Everything. um i mean, I'm sure there's science out there that can be referenced more specifically, but they're just talking about your experience.
00:43:58
Speaker
I mean, online is kind of where we mostly are a lot of the time. So that makes sense. But even when you're just like with your neighborhood friends or at church or whatever, like just sharing with anybody is important.
00:44:10
Speaker
Even if I mean, I've had people come to me. years down the road and be like, I didn't have anything going on back then, but when I did, i remembered that you did. And so i wanted to reach out. And so telling your story, even if it feels like nobody's listening, somebody's listening and they're remembering who they can reach out to and who's safe and who won't judge them.
00:44:31
Speaker
ah So it's endlessly important. I always wonder like how our moms managed without like seeing, I mean, because for me personally, the first thing I want to see online, if I'm worried about something,
00:44:43
Speaker
in any category is do are other people dealing with it? like that Like who else is going through this? So at least I'm not alone because feeling isolated can just be the worst part.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it helps to see something that almost says it's okay. It's okay that you're feeling this way and here's what you can do about it. Instead of, you know, just that you go and Google your random symptom and the worst case possible pops up and and there's,
00:45:10
Speaker
statistics are low about how many people have experienced this, which is why I think the Blue Dot Project is so cool, because I personally was looking through the different programs that they offer and the events, and was just blown away with how much is out there.
00:45:26
Speaker
And, you know, it makes you want to talk about it and and bring it to your community and share it with your friends. i have I have one more question that to kind of close it out. Aside from the Blue Dot Project, like what other...
00:45:40
Speaker
improvements do you think could be made to postpartum care or or or just perinatal care for women in general? Oh gosh, so many. um I think we desperately need more facilities, especially for like intensive outpatient and inpatient care for new moms where they can have their babies with them, where there is some level of childcare so that that doesn't keep them from getting help.
00:46:03
Speaker
um I think obviously more awareness, the more awareness, the better. um I personally believe that we should have like discharge protocol in the hospital. As much as we talk about car seat safety, we should talk about warning signs for a perinatal ah mental health issues and, you know, for partners to, to have.
00:46:24
Speaker
um i think the blue dot safe spot is like a huge first step in kind of trying to unify some of the messaging and protocol. ah for people who have, you know, like high touch with perinatal moms and things like that.
00:46:36
Speaker
um So that to begin with, but I think it's all going to start with sharing our stories and making it more commonplace to talk about how common these things are. And we should be talking about them just as much as we talk about any of the other complications of the perinatal period. If a new mom is listening right now and feeling lost or scared, what would you want her to hear?
00:46:58
Speaker
um You're not alone, obviously, number one thing. um One in five women will be affected by perinatal mood or, well, I guess we're just kind of calling them perinatal mental health disorders. They are sometimes called perinatal mood and anxiety disorders in some places. It's super common. It's the most common complication of pregnancy and postpartum. And there is help, which can be hard to find. And sometimes just knowing that there is help and if you can get one step toward someone that can find you help like the blue dot project you can get connected to the to all the right help postpartum.net the blue dotproject dot project.org we're all the same family and we have like tons of support groups there's multiple programs multiple ways to get involved tons of resources and data so yeah if you want to if you want to get in the right direction i guess like start with postpartum.net and
00:47:51
Speaker
There's probably everything you can find. They also have a phone number that you can call. There's also the maternal mental health hotline um and things like that. So there is help. It is common and it is temporary and it won't last forever. And there is ah light at the end of the tunnel.
00:48:07
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat with me. And I love what you're doing for mothers and for the world. And I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much for having me.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah, we need to talk about something happy now. or You know, let's talk about peaks and pits. I hope someone has something good to talk about.
Overcoming Everyday Challenges & Small Victories
00:48:32
Speaker
and I have a pit.
00:48:35
Speaker
But it's not like it's not. Guys, I cannot get rid of the pantry moths in our house. They come back, like I get rid of them and they always sneak back in. And I don't know if this is because now we live in the woods more than we ever have.
00:48:48
Speaker
Just about everything in our pantry is in some glass canister and I sort of know the routine. But we came back from spring break and I opened the pantry and it was like a cloud. They had found their way into one thing of like dog bones and they must be like fruit flies. They must multiply real fast.
00:49:04
Speaker
But have you ever had them? No. They're literally little moths. They're slow. So you can like squish them, but they, you just, everywhere you look, you see them every, I mean, and they're not, they get into certain things. And then if they're really bad, you'll get like the little like larva, which is not great, but for the most part, it's just like moths, but yeah.
00:49:23
Speaker
They're like little white ones? No, they're little brown moths. But I remember growing up once we had them like in our flower. Don't they like love to get into like flower? Yeah. Yeah. And food. Yeah. Like little weaples and stuff.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah. So that's my pit. Oh, we don't, we don't have that. I mean, I have a pit too. that you guys know i could like trick Arbor into thinking that stink bugs were Jerry's and they're friend.
00:49:49
Speaker
She does not feel the same about ants. Ants. It is ant season in the house and yeah it might as well be a scorpion because she runs and screams.
00:50:00
Speaker
And I told her that, you know, they're harmless and I'm going to set traps and get rid of them. But no. So. Could you get her an ant farm, like lean into it? Would she be interested in that? Oh, that's a good idea. Ant farms are cool. I feel like she'd just be more terrified that it was in a container in her room. Yeah.
00:50:18
Speaker
Or if they got out. I had a fear of snakes. I still a little bit. they They're just not right to me. But I worked at a pet store and I was like, this will make it better because I'll be around them. And I had to like, nope, they're the worst. It made me hate them the worst even more. Yeah. So yeah. Not a fan.
00:50:35
Speaker
nothing And then what was that? The Indiana Jones. Remember that? Oh, that scene. No. Oh yes. Charlotte. Terrifying. Terrifying. Well, Callie or Megan, do you have a peek?
00:50:49
Speaker
i Yeah, go ahead, Callie, you go first. I'm going to change mine because I have sort of a bug-related one since we're going on a bug tangent. Oh, look at us. hu Yeah, like a theme. So my son, he has a fear of like bees and wasps. He's always been a little afraid of them. Pretty sure it comes from my husband because he also is a little afraid of them. And I think it's because he's never been stung.
00:51:11
Speaker
So like to him, you know like when you've never experienced it, So Miles has always been a little bit afraid of them, but he got stunned by a wasp. like two It'll be almost two summers ago now, which is like the worst thing to be stung by. but So I thought it was going to like exasperate the fear. It didn't, but it's still there. He's a little bit nervous about them. And now that it's spring, some of the bees and wasps are coming out again.
00:51:33
Speaker
And there was one on the front porch and he was really kind of getting nervous about it. And Michael was doing lawn work and Miles loves to help him do the lawn work, but he was nervous about this wasp. And I basically was just like,
00:51:44
Speaker
you know, I there, it's that time of year, the bugs are going to come out again and you can stay inside if you're nervous about it. Or, you know, you can say, I'm going to go outside. And, you know, if you try to just avoid it the best you can. And I said, but it happens. And, you know, you may get stung again. Like, I can't tell you, you're not going to get stung.
00:52:01
Speaker
And it does, it hurts. You've experienced it. I'm like, but things hurt. And it, you know, it's not going you know, it it happens. Like, you know, i was just trying to whatever be about it. And I watched him kind of like go over back and forth. He really wanted to go outside and help Michael.
00:52:13
Speaker
And finally he did. He like went out and he went like it was near the shed and he went to the shed and Michael had asked him to get his shovel and he went to the shed and he opened the shed and he got the shovel and he went back and it was just he was so proud of himself and he kind of like, i don't know, they got over the fear, but it was very cool to kind of watch him go through it.
00:52:31
Speaker
Aw. Yeah. I forgot you said it was a peak, and so I was braced the whole time for him. Then he got stung. Stung. And I'm sure it'll happen. I feel like because he's scared, he's going to be the child that gets stung.
00:52:42
Speaker
But I'm trying to play it off as like, it will, it probably might. You know, everyone gets stung, and it it hurts, just like if you get a cut when you're running and you fall on your knees, but you still run, and it could happen. It's just a risk of life.
00:52:55
Speaker
I've never been stung either. Really? So are you so scared of them? No, because I know that they don't like when you're scared. So I'm always trying to be like very calm.
00:53:05
Speaker
Actually, no, if it's a hornet, I'm good i'm running and screaming. But if it's a bee, I'm just... Yeah. Yeah. Michael, the wasps. wasps and the hornets. You're supposed to do that, right? Aren't you not supposed to like flap at them and move, right?
00:53:19
Speaker
Yes. I don't know. But like wasps and hornets are just mean. They'll like just like attack you just to be. yeah Have you seen the videos of the people that'll go up to the hornet nest with the thing of it's a gas or whatever and they just like.
00:53:31
Speaker
The smoke. Yeah. Ugh. No thanks. No. Megan. Megan. Peak or a pit? I have a peak. It's. Easter just passed here and my son did not wear joggers for the whole day on Easter Sunday. Dress pants.
00:53:49
Speaker
It happens maybe like two to three times a year, but he wore ah proper attire to church and no joggers, which like I said, it's either joggers or shorts. I know Charlotte experiences the athleisure wear in her home as well. So yeah, that's my peak.
00:54:06
Speaker
Dress pants for my son for like, I don't know. What was it? Eight hours? so yeah Yeah. Listen, small victories. A win's a win. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that brings us to the end of our episode. Hopefully you didn't hear just now sounded like my toddler was going to come through the ceiling.
00:54:24
Speaker
As always, we love when you leave us reviews. We like when you send us topic requests and all that good stuff. Listen to us everywhere you listen to podcasts and have a great day. and then So distracted by the booming upstairs. Well, the beep at my house. No. Could you hear it just now?
00:54:45
Speaker
How I've tried, written down the words to say It is time, I've been waiting five days To explain you make me feel inside Baby