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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - Minnesota& Mississippi
110 Plays3 years ago
The Summer Road Trip Continues this week with two new stops!
Mississippi (2:03 - 42:24) Lisa takes us on a trip that no one wants to go down, but important for us to remember, racism still exists and ignorance is never an excuse. All Lives matter, especially that of James Craig Anderson
Minnesota (42:25 - 2:01:03) Faith takes us to the small town where David & Carol Hoffman show us how past trauma can come back to make our seemly perfect life fall apart without warning.
We LOVE hearing from you amazing people, so if you have something you want us to hear, tips on how we could do better, a story you want us to discuss on the show or even just say hi feel free to reach out twistedtalestruecrime@gmail.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Well, hello and thank you for joining us again on another episode of Twisted Tales. I'm Lisa. And I'm Faith. Welcome. Hi. Hope you had a great 4th of July if you celebrate it last week.
Returning from Vacation: Is It Worth It?
00:00:20
Speaker
you know coming down from vacation right now Sam is it was a hard hit back to reality this morning it does man it's like a brick from heaven she shatters your face oh my gosh it's almost not even worth it because it's so relaxing and then like I slept through the night when I was on vacation yeah I know it was it was yeah so anyway
00:00:45
Speaker
um hope everybody liked the episode last the last episode we dropped of well i just remember your crazy lady from the dark web and and and bruce yes yes the serial killer in massachusetts bruce yeah good old bruce yeah um great white shark yeah that was yeah i was so mad at you still very proud of that one
00:01:08
Speaker
That was good. It was great. I was like a giddy child. Mine was like www.hitman.com. How much cooler does it get? I was giggling typing up the line. The notes, the show notes.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Showdown
00:01:23
Speaker
So anyway, we're moving on in our road trip to Minnesota and Mississippi. Yeah, it was Mississippi. Shut up. I know you have it. And as tradition, we're going to rock, paper, scissors, paper, scissors, shoot, rock, paper, scissors, shoot. You had to class immediately. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.
00:01:49
Speaker
And I win yeah, it's okay because I'm sorry if that got really loud I don't know why it affected me a lot just now when I lost it's okay I should be used to I was gonna say you should be used to it, but whatever Alright Faith, so I'm gonna tell us a story here Every every aspect of the story just makes me angry someone to tell it because that's you know what we have to do here But have you ever just before we get started?
When Does the Brain Fully Develop?
00:02:16
Speaker
Have you ever heard like people say that the human mind is not fully developed until you hit a certain age? Yeah. So like, do you know what age that is? I want to say it's like in the 20s. I feel like the ones that I've heard the most is like the human brain is not fully developed until you're around 25. Yeah, they say there's there's a lot of numbers thrown around there. But I think it's like, yeah, mid mid 20s.
00:02:38
Speaker
But your mind, technically, you can continue to grow it. So. Oh, absolutely. Some people need to. So if you're if you're looking at like teenage kids early, no, I'm sorry, not early teens, late teens, 18, 19, how much would you want to hold them accountable for making a mistake? Well, if you're 18, you are technically an adult and at that point, I feel like you should know right from wrong.
00:03:05
Speaker
If you're mentally capable of knowing right from wrong, obviously there are continuing circumstances. But I feel at 18, you're, I mean, you should have known better. My child's six. She knows the things that she knows right from wrong. She's held accountable for today.
18-Year-Olds and Accountability
00:03:20
Speaker
So. So law and order purposes. Basic. They know not to kill. They know not to still lie. You know, just general like human being. Yeah. Yeah.
The Rankin County Teen Crime of 2011
00:03:33
Speaker
So I'm going to tell a story right now, and it sparks me to my core because this story takes place in 2011. And it's so weird to me that in 2011, we still have weird things like, not weird things, things like this that happened because people are cold. Okay. So on June 26, 2011, a group of teens and the youngest was 18. We're drinking.
00:03:57
Speaker
in Rankin County, Mississippi. You know, just, just side note, every time we have like, quote unquote, good people that we talk about, it's always, and they were drinking or they were doing drugs and it goes downhill quick. I just don't think, you know, okay. And they're not legally old enough to drink BT Dubs. Oh, agreed. Absolutely. And I can absolutely agree. You know, they call alcohol liquid courage. I get that.
00:04:24
Speaker
but I feel like you already have to have a dark mind to commit some kind of a felon when you're drunk or on drugs. I feel like, and that's just a personal opinion, okay? Because I've been drunk thousands of times, and I've never been like, let me go stab somebody in the neck. You're hard to handle. Oh, I have a huge pain in the butt. So where are you, by the way, BT Dubs? No, I am.
00:04:45
Speaker
Nobody, nobody, I don't, there is no such thing as a good drunk people. I'm sorry, but only other drunk people. That's not true.
Security Footage and Family's Influence
00:04:54
Speaker
Only only other drunk people seem to tolerate drunk people. I know one guy and every time he gets drunk, he turns into the sweetest person you've ever met.
00:05:03
Speaker
He dropped my perfume in the toilet once when he was at my house like years and years ago. And he came out like almost crying and he was like, I dropped in the toilet. And then he just rolled around with my dog and he kept going, who's your uncle? Who's your cousin? I am.
00:05:18
Speaker
So, he's a funny, I'm pretty sure I already know that. Yeah, you know, of course I know exactly what you're talking about. I just don't recall them out on Facebook, or Facebook. Hello. This is, this is a podcast. The internet. We Spotify. Spotify and others. It's not just Spotify. We're everywhere, people. We are everywhere. Contaminating, contaminating your life. Mm-hmm. One stupid word at a time.
00:05:40
Speaker
So again, they were drinking. They apparently wanted more beer. So they jumped into their cars and they drove 16 miles where the stores were still open so they could purchase their beer. So first of all, problem number one, they're too young to be drinking. And they're drunk and getting behind the wheel of the car. Ding, ding, ding. Don't drink. If you're going to drink, don't drive. Call somebody. You got to have at least one decent friend. All right. So I was just sitting there talking about a dark mind, right?
00:06:10
Speaker
Yes. So at this point, I'm going to go ahead and give you the feller's name that we're about to be talking about here. His name is Darryl Deadman Jr. He was the 18 year old. They all jump into the car and he starts well, at some point starts yelling out
Racism: A Generational Issue?
00:06:27
Speaker
like, I'm not going to say, I'm going to paraphrase what he said because I don't personally want to say it. That's fine. But he was yelling, let's go F with some,
00:06:38
Speaker
N words, radical term for African-Americans or blacks or however you want to say that. So they're racist pieces of crap. In a nutshell, right. Dark mind, dark mind, right? So that's why I asked you that simple question. This kid's 18 years old. He knows better. He knows better. 100%. And all of his friends know better. And I know a lot of people talk about like mob mentalities and stuff, but like, I'm sorry, you can't all at one time
00:07:06
Speaker
just follow the crowd like a moth to a flame. One person has to be intelligent. So they pull off the interstate into a motel and they saw a man by the name of James Craig Anderson
00:07:24
Speaker
who is literally walking to his truck. Now, I'm going to go ahead and give you guys just some gaps of some other stuff I heard because all, you know, you know, trials, there's going to be lies, there's going to be truth. And then in the middle, there's going to be like what actually happened. Right. I'm going to tell you, I don't care what the lies are, they're racist pieces of crap.
00:07:43
Speaker
And it's 2011. We got, we got into the car and we knew they sought him out based solely on skin color. So they, they basically, they were like, Oh, well he's breaking into a car. Oh, what was his keys? No, no, actually it was his car. That's what I'm saying. And he was trying to get, no, no, no.
00:08:01
Speaker
His keys were locked in the car. Okay. Okay. Now I personally will extend every bit of knowledge that I have on trying to get that door open. Right. Before I'll call anybody because I don't want to pay for it. A hundred percent. Okay. So like I will grab like a flathead screwdriver trying to ram it in with a coat hanger. We all do it. Yeah. Okay. And truth be told, if we're going to be trying to steal a car,
00:08:29
Speaker
We are, we're going to have the tools and equipment. Nobody's going to stand there for three hours with a coat hanger trying to get the car open. It's no. Just no. Either way, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Even if the guy was trying to break into the car, it's completely irrelevant.
Stereotypes and Realities of the South
00:08:43
Speaker
It doesn't matter. They were looking for that. Yeah. No, not even looking. He's just literally of a black guy. That's what I'm saying. They were looking for something. I don't care if the guy was breaking into the car. Call the cops. Let them deal with it. This is not your business. Yeah.
00:08:55
Speaker
2011 people okay people receiving text messages now. It's pretty easy pretty simple right so sorry guys. I wanted to hit my cigarette real quick because This is the part where I start getting very emotional all right so James Anderson was just walking to his truck there were six white men in total and all six of them
00:09:24
Speaker
beat and robbed Anderson. Okay. So now this isn't even a, you know, we're not protecting our community anymore. They beat the crap out of them. They took his stuff. Yeah. They did what they were looking to do. Yeah. Okay. So they had two different vehicles that they were in at that time. And one of them was a white Jeep Cherokee. And the other one was a, some kind of a Ford F 150. Okay. It was a darker color. Now I'm going to go ahead and tell you,
00:09:51
Speaker
All this was caught on a security cam footage at the motel. Because it's 2011. You can't do anything without CCTV. Good. I mean, not good for Mr. Anderson's family, but good for those pieces of crap. Yeah, that they
Premeditated Murder Discussion
00:10:04
Speaker
got caught, right? So I'm sorry. My bicep is hurting. All right. So after beating him, some of the men got back into their car, which was the white jeep. And they took off leaving Daryl alone with Anderson.
00:10:21
Speaker
At that point, the security cam footage showed, uh, Daryl get into his F one 50 pickup and run Anderson over. So now they've, they've beat this guy. They took a stuff. And to Daryl, that just was not good enough. Right. Cause we're out having a good time. Let's just run the guy. And I'm sorry, I'm going to throw the age back into it. Yeah. I don't care. I don't care how young you know, better, no way better. And that's, that's like my point.
00:10:47
Speaker
With some of the, a lot of these cases and things that I've seen when I've researched of like who I'm going to do. Some of them are so gut wrenching. I don't want to do them because it doesn't make sense to me. You can't make sense to crazy people. No. And it's gut wrenching to me because like, I'll see these cases of these kids and they are kids. These guys, I would consider adults, but they're like, you know, 13, 14, 15 years old that.
00:11:10
Speaker
kill either a sibling or they kill like one of the ones that I was gonna do I think it was last week or the week before was a guy was a kid
Helen's Disruptive Demands
00:11:19
Speaker
who said that he killed his brother because he was watching Dexter at the time yeah and just whatever and then there was another kid who killed his ten-year-old brother or something like that because he was practicing martial arts
00:11:37
Speaker
And I'm, I'm just sitting here and I'm like, I don't understand where the brain goes. Like, okay. That defeats the purpose. But how does your mind get to that point where you're like, okay, I've beaten this guy up and I'm just going to get in my truck now and I'm going to run them over. I would like to refer back to my original statement, the racist pieces of crap.
00:11:59
Speaker
Agree, but I think it goes so far beyond that because they weren't like it wasn't you know It wasn't because they didn't understand like the concept of death. It wasn't because in
David's Troubled Past and Family Tensions
00:12:09
Speaker
your two examples it wasn't because they were watching something that made them want to do it wasn't because they Were it wasn't an accident. They were practicing martial art It was they sought out to hurt someone who looked different than them, right? because their brains are so tiny and
00:12:26
Speaker
And there's got such an inferiority complex that no one can be different. But then my question is going to route back to what were these people being fed. OK. So that that that mindset doesn't just come out of nowhere. Somebody's either showed or taught that to you. I think.
00:12:44
Speaker
unless you're watching some kind of weird and you get into some kind of like a militia, whatever, right where you become dead obsessed and you're crazy. Unfortunately, you are in Mississippi and Mississippi does have a lot of race based crime. Yes.
00:13:02
Speaker
Um, and, and I say that not, I mean, we're from Tennessee, right? Of Mississippi is a lot of people that are, are hurting people are race based against African-Americans, but a race based crime is any race against any race. I would agree with that. Q and Shannon Christiansen. Yeah. Who was a white girl. Yeah.
00:13:23
Speaker
So it's it's it's not I don't I think it is taught to a degree, but it doesn't have to be taught by family members. It can be someone you look up to a friend, a school clerk. And then it just spreads and you just harbor it because you hate something about yourself or you hate something about your situation. And instead of changing it, you externalize that hate on somebody else because I don't know, like even just even the racist thing, just there's a point to that. It just doesn't make any sense to me like we're
00:13:51
Speaker
You're not born race. We're all a race. It's one race. It's the human race, right? Yeah, everybody's different. Everybody's. Yeah, we're all mixed. Yeah, we're all we're all months. That's what I'm trying to think. We're much more girls. You're a mongrel. But you know, we are. No, there's so you know, there's no I don't even know that there is 100% anymore. Okay, this isn't you know, like what do they call them? Muggles, right? We're all muggles.
00:14:14
Speaker
But I mean, you look at kids like young kids before they're, you know, like out in society and
Judgment Day Obsession
00:14:23
Speaker
you get like, for example, my nephew is white. And one of his best friends is black who was adopted into a white family. But I mean, he sees no difference between them. They don't see skin tone. They're taught to see skin tone.
00:14:37
Speaker
That's that's what I was saying. Like, I feel like at some point in these kids' lives, something triggered that for them to where it made them angry and it made them hate. OK, whether it was like I said, they dropped in on the wrong Web page. Somebody taught them. I don't know. That could be way off base, but I feel like it's some kind of a generational like curse. I think that I think in the South, it is more generational. It's taught.
00:15:03
Speaker
It's everywhere for sure. But I mean, but it's not just that. I mean, I'm going to I'm going to go out on a huge limb and piss a lot of people off here.
00:15:13
Speaker
That's fine. Everybody has opinions. They're like buttholes. Everybody's got them. They all stink. My opinion is it's not just like not hereditary, but it's not something just taught by your family. I think politics and social media play a huge role in keeping these race lines
00:15:36
Speaker
because it's, you know, it's like when the Black Lives Matter thing happened last summer. That was atrocious. It was horrible. Black lives do matter, but so do Asian lives and white lives and every person. But see, I can understand. Like all lives should matter. In partial. Some of the arguments, OK? Some of the arguments to me are not valid. But when they're talking about Black Lives Matter, they're talking about in a sense of life. Yes, in that. The incarcerated.
00:16:05
Speaker
you know, the amount of African Americans that are put away compared to white Americans for stupid small piddly crap. But I'm going to jump right back on the drug train where we're paying way too much attention to things that don't matter or somebody smoking freaking weed.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, then somebody who's, you know, molesting a kid, like, again, whatever that's again, I'm totally I think that a lot of it. I mean, I do think that we're taught to see races. I think that it is something that a lot of time is passed down to families to hate. But I think that we as a society, at least in America,
00:16:40
Speaker
It's so like we put such a it's like their politics push it. They're laying down the red carpet. Yeah, they don't people to follow. Correct. They don't push the fact that you should hate other races.
Religion and Beliefs
00:16:52
Speaker
but they define these stereotypes, which I'm gonna talk about in my next episode. Just because one person does something doesn't mean the whole group of people believe that way, but they push these stereotypes and it makes other people angry. I saw an interview with a rapper, and for the life of me, I can't remember what it was called.
00:17:14
Speaker
Waka Flocka. No, I don't remember what it was. You know, I know you're talking about I can't remember. But he's just in there. Yeah. But he straight up in an interview was like the only people in the world who differentiate Americans by their skin color is Americans. Yeah. Because anywhere else you travel, you're just an American.
00:17:36
Speaker
Because you're not an African American. You're just an American. Unless you, you're here. I've got a friend who's an African American because he was born in Africa and he lives here. And guess what? He's white. Now he's moving to Hawaii because he has a charm to life. But do you know what I mean? Like, I agree. Like if you're not Asian American, you're American. Unless you moved here from Asia, then fine. Asian American because you're dual citizenship. Yeah.
00:18:01
Speaker
But if you're born and raised here, you're an American. Like it's on our paperwork. You check Hispanic, non-Hispanic, white, African, like. I mean, there should be two questions, male or female. Why does it matter what color you are? Yeah. No, I agree. I agree completely. I know we went off on a tangent just then, but it's we do that. There's so many things that baffle me because like I remember. I remember being a kid being raised in Boston in a very, very, very Italian
00:18:31
Speaker
family on one side, very Italian, very Italian, okay? Very old school, very just Catholic, okay? Like every stigma that was Italian was the family that I grew up with on one side of my family, correct? And when my uncle came home with a black woman and said, I'm marrying her, they were furious. They were furious. And they're not even really, they were literally like second generation
00:19:00
Speaker
yeah okay they were old school by the book from Naples like yeah they were Italian Americans yeah they were Italian American and so like don't like does it make it right no nothing about it was right I know but I felt like we were justifying their beliefs there for a minute no no god no I know I'm saying yeah I'm saying that it's not just applicable to
00:19:23
Speaker
Like white versus black. Everybody can be. Anybody is a racist. Exactly. Freaking ignorant. Hugely. Anyone can be ignorant. And my grandparents at that time were very ignorant. Yeah. OK. And my aunt to this day loved the woman to death. Oh, she's so sweet. She's cool. My cousins are amazing. They're biracial for the most part. They don't listen. It's OK. Yeah, they don't. Actually, I love all three of them. Yeah, I know they're hilarious, actually.
00:19:48
Speaker
Prettiest kids. Oh my god, they're gorgeous. It makes me like hate myself. Everybody I know that is biracial is like absolutely stunning. I know. And their skin, their eye color, like their eye color is always like amazing. And I'm gonna say something and I hope nobody finds this racist at all, okay? Because I have a lot like, I know there, there are quite a few black. How do you age like that? Oh my god. I'm 36 and my face is drooping. Yeah.
00:20:17
Speaker
And I'm Italian and French Canadian. That's my lineage, okay? I'm a mutt. You're a mutt. You're a huge mutt. It burns in the sun. Freckles and burns in the sun. It's amazing. You gotta have some Irish. No, I'm kidding. Okay, seriously, that was kind of racist. I don't know what racist. She looks the same. I've known you guys for 20 years. She looks the exact same. Yeah, it's not fair. It's not fair. It's like Paul Rudd.
00:20:43
Speaker
He looks the same an ant man as he did friends. And it's like a 20 year span. And I swear that man has not aged a frackin day. I mean, you're talking about the other day. And like Shamar Malaid. Oh, he's so trashy. Shamar more. Oh my gosh. The big goatee in the news show, I'm not a fan of. I don't even care. Don't even care. I know what he looks like under there. He's a handsome man. He's a looker. He's a handsome man. I should probably get back to my story. We've done a lot of rambling. Sorry. So it's a bad story. We got to kind of break it up. Yeah.
00:21:13
Speaker
Anyways, we both believe that racism is completely asinine and that everything that takes place. Yeah, everything that takes place from here on is we're just going to start shooting out our opinion. And if you don't like our opinion, bite me. No, don't bite me. That would hurt. So Daryl, after he committed his crime and ran James Craig Anderson over with his car, he took off running, not not running. Sorry, he fled in his truck.
00:21:43
Speaker
Um, the other teams testified in court that Daryl quoted, quote, I ran that N word over and he spoke it with pride. And I'm like, okay. Like everybody talks about pride. Oh, it's pride prideful pride. Oh, pride. Oh, pride. I did this. Oh, I'm right. But like everything that I can think of, like pride is such a negative term because when you're prideful, you're a dick.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Like, I mean, because when you think about somebody that has a lot of pride, like it's one thing to be proud of your accomplishments. Being proud and prideful are two different things. Yeah. Like he was, he had pride and his ignorance. Thank you. So according to some of the news sources, um, and I actually do believe this to be true because it's, it seems pretty,
00:22:39
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? It's just accurate for everything that we've discussed so far. That they actually had been out and about throwing beer bottles and shooting a slingshot loaded with ball bearings at passing black individuals. Now you know what ball bearings are.
00:22:57
Speaker
The giant metal, like, you know, there's car ball bearings. And I'm assuming that's probably like a round, spherical metal object. Yeah. And they were shooting it in a slingshot. Yeah. They're pieces of trash. White freaking trash. All right. And not the good kind of white trash that like cooks you a good dinner. No, no, no, not even close. Not even close. So in general, I would just say these guys are just absolute pieces of crap in all of my experiences.
00:23:27
Speaker
of drinking and going out and having a good time being out with family being out with just even just friends. Okay, even in my younger years, like, I mean, I like I had my first beer at like 13.
00:23:39
Speaker
OK, just from family and whatever. Yeah. There was never a thought in any of our minds to go out and just assault people. Now, I'm not saying that things didn't happen to us when we were out and about. Because you make bad decisions when you. Everybody does. Yeah. But to actually seek out that in your head and go for it. You there's something wrong with your brain. Yeah, you're just a tool. Yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker
I just can't like I mean at any point and you know I know our parents could possibly listen to this but at any time that you ever got drunk to do everything to yourself I'm gonna go mess with somebody else and shoot ball bearings at them and throw beer bottles at them. No? No. No and I feel like for most kids that age they're like hey where are the girls at? Yeah like you know what I mean like normal
00:24:26
Speaker
You worry about where you're going to pee when you're outside. Well, that's great. You can dance. You can't. Exactly. At least I do. Yes. Um, I have a signature move called the poison ivy. Um, like the poison kibbe. Is that what you're poison ivy? Oh, I'd be. I'd be. Yeah. My brother loves to dance. And when he'd make me mad when we, when we'd go have a little bit of fun on the cruise ship, I would cling to him like poison ivy and poison ivy.
00:24:53
Speaker
Well, like you don't have it be getting drunk. It lowers your inhibitions. And usually you have fun as long as you're with the right people, but that's the problem. If it lowers your inhibitions and you've got one, a hole in the group, that's like, Hey, let's go beat someone up.
00:25:10
Speaker
Everybody else is gonna go. I'm gonna sit over here and watch the unicorns dance in front of me that I see. Have fun. That's not drinking. That's mushroom syrup. I've never done any drugs.
00:25:25
Speaker
I don't think my brother came outside right now and was like hey this chick just kicked me in the north and smacked me in the face I'm chasing her down I don't I don't care I don't even but I won't even beat someone up when I'm drunk I just threaten them with you that's okay valid valid but not valid because you almost got me killed one year
00:25:45
Speaker
But like, I mean, I never head out the window in traffic. My sister-in-law is going to beat the crap out of me. I remember that like it was yesterday. Yeah, but I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like you're if you're if you are bent towards being ignorant and being violent other people and wanting to hurt other people for absolutely no reason, you're it's going to intensify when you're drunk. You're just going to be like, all right, let's do it. I'm not going to think of the consequences because I'm an idiot over the color of somebody's skin.
00:26:13
Speaker
Which is stupid. How naive and dumb does that like... I remember being in high school and there was a guy and he was, I'm sorry, more to throw it out there, he was a black guy. And he was just a good guy, like I mean he was just one of those guys that like he was cool with everybody. Yeah. And I remember one day it was the only time I had ever seen him lose his temper.
00:26:39
Speaker
where we had a young lady that was in our school at the time who was blind and she had to walk around with her walking stick. Now most people in our high school at that time would help her get where she needed to go. Because they're decent human beings. Well there was a crew of just stupid little white boys that thought they were funny. I think they were maybe sophomores, juniors, whatever. Frankie was a senior. Sorry, I'm spewing names here. I said your husband. It wasn't Frankie. My brother. This was the black kid that was also his name.
00:27:10
Speaker
And they kicked her cane out from under and he just lost it and to me I don't care what color they were at that time. I don't think he cared what color they were at that time. I'm like he wasn't justifiable like you're just garbage Yeah, you're you're picking on someone who cannot defend themselves so I'm gonna stand here and die on my hill that if you're asking for it I
00:27:34
Speaker
you're asking for it yeah but to victimize somebody based solely on the color of their skin that has nothing to do that is not a justification for any of that'd be like they'd be like hating everyone with brown eyes or hazel not crap i've got brown eyes i know that's why i said brown first of course you did no of course you did everybody with hazel eyes i hate them that's asinine yeah
00:27:57
Speaker
and have absolutely nothing to do with who they are as a person. Yeah. And you're not, you're harboring a whole hell of a lot more than just hate. Yeah. You, you got a serious heart problem. You need to set yourself up with some, um, some, uh, a doctor, a mind doctor, a psychologist. Am I a mind doctor? I wanted to be like a head shrink and that's not the word. But you need to sit down and have some like severe deep counseling to find out what is wrong.
00:28:23
Speaker
with your mentality and why you think that's okay. What is, yeah, because it's not okay. Yeah. Like it's an, it's an asinine. Like if you actually, if you sit here and you ask somebody right now, is it okay to shoot this little white girl on her bike? Those people with that mindset would say, no, man, that's so wrong. They should die for that crime. Yeah. Why is it different? Mind blown. Mind blown. Don't get it. I hate everybody that's plumbers. I hate people named Faith with freckles.
00:28:53
Speaker
They're awesome. It's just like when you literally sit down and think about it, it's asinine. It is. It is so purely like you peel off that coating and we all look the same underneath. Yeah. And it's amazing to me how many white folk don't agree with these kids at all. And I'm not going to say kids. They were adults. They were adults. I'm sorry, because I'm going to sit here and I'm going to tell you my last little bit of this and then I'm going to give you my opinion. Okay. And we both know that nobody likes Lisa's opinion.
00:29:18
Speaker
I don't even like because Lisa's Lisa's a bit over the place is Italian so loud Pinninated obnoxious all of the above I get that So all of this was played out his friends testified to the things that he said about I ran should have been I ran him over should have been charged to for accomplices They were good. They were um But out of all six of them Daryl was the only one that went down for the murder
00:29:43
Speaker
Because he ran him over with a vehicle with a vehicle the others got about 18 years or so Not enough, but not even close All right, you beat this defenseless man. There were six of you Okay, this is where guys this is where I cannot not one of you is a decent person That's what I'm saying. That's that's a mob mentality and there were females in this little crew, too Like have some common decency even if you kind of think like okay
00:30:13
Speaker
There was one time you were there. It was me. Your brother and I were dating. We were all three driving to Walmart for something. And some guy was like a butthole to your brother on the road and like slammed his brakes in front of him and was screaming at him. And we parked and he followed us in there. It was screaming that he cut him off or something. Yeah. Screaming at Frankie. And Frankie wanted to fight him. And I was like, no, we're going inside. Be as mad as you want, but walk away. He flipped his cigarette at him. Yeah. Because he had to get his point across, right? Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
His last words were, I would fight you but I want to break a hip. And I was like, shut up and go inside. I don't want to break your hip. Because he was an old guy. That stood out. But I mean, one of you can't be like, hey guys. But again, Frankie was confronted with violence. And he really didn't cut the guy off, y'all. And I don't know if you've ever been in traffic in Tennessee, but there is none. It's like five people to stoplight. Yeah. You've got plenty of time, bro. Yeah.
00:31:09
Speaker
I don't know, man. So they only got 18 years, and I do say only because how do you just beat the tar out of somebody you don't know for no apparent reason whatsoever? And like, because we don't even know what kind of condition he was really in because he was run over after them. So all of the bones that were broken via
00:31:29
Speaker
the vehicle, right? You're not going to know which ones broke first. And I don't, you know, because everything happened within the course of this this small time frame. Yeah. And I'm OK. So Darryl got 50 years for running this man over, not only for running this man over, but bragging that he ran this man over, not only that he bragged that he ran this man over, but premeditated said
00:31:58
Speaker
We're going to go hurt a black guy. Like that baffles me. OK, baffles me. Should have been life. Yeah. And it's like that George Floyd thing with them kneeling on the guy's neck. I don't care what was happening at that time. I don't care what. That's not your. You don't kneel on somebody's neck. No. OK. Like you murder him. I don't care what drugs he had in the system or if he was already about to kick the bucket. You assisted. You still you assisted in that fact. Yeah. You never should have melt on his knee on his on his neck.
00:32:25
Speaker
No, that's just stupid. He was already down and had handcuffs on. Yeah, there's no reason for it. And especially anybody who's trained in anything that has to do with drugs, they're not exactly normal when they're on them. I just I don't know. 50 years to me, he'll be in his late 60s. Yes. When he gets out 68 and he gets to get out and still have a life. Whereas James Craig Anderson, his is just over.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's always the hard part for me when it's like when because we talk about death penalty, not death penalty, this, that or the other. Like I just don't think that murder is an accident. No, this one was sought out. No, like if you're driving down the freeway and somebody jumps out in front of your vehicle, you kill them manslaughter. I get that. Yeah. You couldn't control the fact that that guy jumped out in front of you. Right. OK. Somebody blows a stoplight. Somebody blows a stop sign. You guys get into a collision. Somebody dies in manslaughter. I get I understand that.
00:33:20
Speaker
Exactly. Accidents do happen. But when it's premeditated like that, why would you just? And then like, OK, the guy that that was their judge at the time in Mississippi was an African-American man. And he gave a speech that was so gut wrenching and just like so true to fact. And it was a huge, long speech. So I'm not going to read it. Definitely Google it yourself. It was in the Darryl Deadman Jr. Case.
00:33:49
Speaker
And just listen to what this judge or read what this judge had to say, because it was so real life. And just like every part of everything that happened with all of those kids was just not how did I don't remember how he phrased it, but it was perfect. It just wasn't, it didn't make any sense. And it was completely pointless. It was completely pointless. And that's not how he said it, but it was, it's, you know, dancing around the fact of I cannot for the life of me remember what that quote was, but
00:34:18
Speaker
just just it was senseless it didn't matter not there was no point to it it didn't solve any problems correct it wasn't it was there was no there was no man yeah now I will say in this because we talked about this case before when they sentenced the main Daryl
00:34:39
Speaker
white trash, ignorant piece of crap. Yeah. You were looking stuff up. I was trying to look up what his what what Mr. Anderson's sister said. Yeah, because she they were talking about like before sentences. The family is obviously allowed to give like a victim impact speeches I believe what they're called like basically
00:35:04
Speaker
whether I want him to be killed, what this crime does to you or your family and what you want in retaliation. And she basically said it. I'm paraphrasing because I can't find her statement. But she basically said that due to our beliefs, we do not believe in the death penalty.
00:35:25
Speaker
In Mississippi, especially death penalty is usually against black individuals and We are not going to support it in this case either because it goes against our core values, right? Because you and I argue so you're sitting here and you're like I'm actually a decent human being right and you said I am And I said
00:35:45
Speaker
I don't think so because you're just revictimizing the family who's saying please don't, it goes against what we believe, please don't give them the death penalty. Totally different scenario though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like without her victim statement, I would have said life imprisonment. Yeah, that's what we talked about. No parole, no nothing. Because you were on for the death penalty, you're mad you didn't get it and I said, well, you want to know why?
00:36:04
Speaker
Yes, I remember that now. Yeah, but I mean, if it wasn't for that, yeah, 100% he should have gotten death penalty because he victimized someone for no reason. It's not like they weren't just patient. Yeah, they weren't a fight. It was the intent before he even got in the car that they were gonna hurt somebody. Oh, yeah, they wanted to hurt them. They went not just someone that someone with a certain skin tone. Just so
00:36:32
Speaker
Asinine I'm still a fan of an eye for an eye and I think that family should have like 10 minutes alone with him and just 100% I definitely think in any kind of any murder case or any case some people are not violent and I'm not saying that I'm violent I'm saying that if anything ever happened to my kid. I'd want that 10 minutes Yeah, don't I would want that 10 minutes. Don't don't don't put them in jail. Just give them to me for like a day Yeah, you'll never see him again. No, cuz death is too easy for me
00:36:59
Speaker
I really honestly believe that. Yeah, but a day is not long enough to fully torture. I'm sorry. That was that was rough. She's not. I went. I went a little far, guys. I went a little far. I'm just saying, like, look, all of us are around the spectrum. It's the human race. Then we then humans are the race. Human race. Humans themselves categorize different races at that point.
00:37:26
Speaker
Which is stupid, but yeah. But yeah, that's not the way that it was meant to be. No. It was core. From the beginning, we are the human race. And then the human race said, well, your skin's a little darker than me. You're from India, so you're Indians.
00:37:42
Speaker
Your skin's a little darker than me, you're from Africa, so you're African. It's like, you know what I'm saying? They divided the human race to mean something that it was never intended to be. No, because we have to classify everything. Exactly. Whoever did that was an OCD person. Whoever did that was just a tool and probably racist themselves. Probably. Anyways, that was my story for this evening's event. Like I said, man, everybody gets triggered by things.
00:38:11
Speaker
Murdering by everything. Well, only because there needs to be a sense of fairness in this world when it comes to people that get away with crap. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm not saying that these guys got away with anything like that. Now that you said that you're, you know, that his sister spoke out and said, hey, ma'am, please don't take this. It's still, I mean, that is that you're right. They would have been re-victimized. It is triggering to go and hurt someone and kill someone for absolutely no reason. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
It makes me angry. It makes me feel a lot of negative emotions. Am I going to go out and beat up the first white little pimpled face prick I see with a shaved head? Yeah. No. Oh, I mean, no. I'm kidding. I'm joking. It took me a minute for my brain to catch up. Like I was on pause, I guess. And then it didn't go quick enough to understand everything that anyway. Yeah.
00:39:03
Speaker
But it's a street, I'm sorry if you hear the dogs barking. Lisa has a brood of dogs that are awful. Yeah, I've got two mean little pitties. They're not mean at all. They're just annoying as crap and they bark at shadows. So that's that. Anyway, but yeah, so sorry if that triggered you. And you know what? It should. It should trigger you. It should piss you off. It should piss you off. And if you have ever been the victim of racial profiling or racial discrimination, I'm sorry. People suck.
00:39:36
Speaker
Anybody who has that kind of hate in their heart deserves to get their blood at least once in their life at least Well, that's what I said if they were out of their nose of racial profiling are then people sucks people that did that to him suck
00:39:48
Speaker
But you know what, I bet that they don't hate everybody that, you know, in the classification of people that did that to them because they're the better person. Yeah, I agree. I mean, y'all family was the better person. Absolutely. Oh, 110 percent. Better than I am. But I'm going to tell you guys something, though, like don't fall into the stigma that everybody from the South is a racist. Like I remember the first time my aunt and uncle came to visit again, my aunt, that was African-American. I'm sorry, black. She was black. She was American. OK.
00:40:16
Speaker
She was almost kind of like freaking out because it was the majority were white. Well, because up north, that's what you're told. We're all a bunch of redneck racist that, you know. And then she realized like she loved it. Like people were super nice. Why is everybody saying hi to me? Why is like, that's just the way it is in the south? Because we have other, other hospitality, other, other, others combined in the team. That's your grade. Shut up. I love you now.
00:40:41
Speaker
Alright, so Faith is up next, and I just, we love you guys, and we hope you enjoyed my first story. And so we're gonna let Faith move on with hers, and hopefully she doesn't watch it. I won't. It's fantastic. I hate it. I don't even want to. After the Jaws episode last week, I'm pretty much- Jaws episode. I'm so, I'm so spent with you. Like, it's not even funny. This is a true, this is a true story, though. This is real life. Okay. Okay. Alright.
00:41:04
Speaker
Okay, so we are going to go to Mississippi. We just left Mississippi. We're gone. We're gone. Gone like the wind to Minnesota. We are going to Cochrane, Minnesota to be further descriptive. It is a rural city that is a suburb of Minneapolis. So it's about 30 minutes from downtown Minneapolis. Minnesota. And it only has 6,000 residents, like under 6,000. So it's a small town, right?
00:41:33
Speaker
Uh, the town has two mottos. One's not really good, but the other one is apparently we've seen it. We're not impressed. Nice. I just thought that was funny. I heard it on small town murders when they talked about this and I was like, Oh, well, we've seen it and we're not impressed. Sure. So our story is taking place on 1980, so not too far back. Um, and I am going to be talking about David and Carol Hoffman.
00:41:58
Speaker
and they're gonna be the focal point of our story, but we do have a few add-ins, right? So David was a simple small town guy. Didn't really get into any trouble. He was 22, lived at home with his parents, and next door lived the Stebbins family. And he met their daughter and he's infatuated, they're in love, stereotypical girl next door, right? Well, there's one little twist. She was 12.
00:42:25
Speaker
She was 15. Nice. She was 22. I was off by a couple of years. I don't know why I guessed that, but I saw it coming. Saw it coming. So now, while I do not condone any 22-year-old dating a 15-year-old, since the 1980s, it was a little bit different, but Kendall's parents still aren't 100% on board with this. Can I just hit you? Oh, yeah. Oh, you're going to say ooh a lot. Nice. Yeah.
00:42:49
Speaker
He's a nice kid. He lives next door, so that means they can keep an eye on him and this relationship, right? My gosh. And quite frankly, it's a 15-year-old. How many times have you fallen out of love? Like, on the regular, every time a new teen beat came out, I loved someone different. JTT, Devin Salah. Nope, wouldn't. I wouldn't do it. Nope, nope, nope, nope. But anyway, so. Let's punch him in his face and tell the world he needs to be castrated. And his parents' face to get your adult kid away from my teenage daughter. Correct.
00:43:20
Speaker
Well, I will castrate you yeah, yeah, he's old enough to be hit close-fisted in the face, and it's not like You know if she had a regular boy and with something you couldn't do that because you'd be assaulting a minor He's not which is no problem now. We're just an assault yeah, and all you needs a little bit of cash to get yourself fail Okay, everybody's hit somebody else in their life right so Carol's appearance eventually reluctantly
00:43:48
Speaker
are okay with them dating. Not okay with it, but they're just choosing their battles, I guess. I fought that battle to the death row. To the death row. Both, sister.
00:44:02
Speaker
But they were, you know, it's whatever. The girls 15, they're in love. They're talking about marriage. And Carol's father even said, naturally, I tried to talk her out of it. He's seven years older. But after two years, they're still together. They're in love. So we signed the papers.
00:44:18
Speaker
So basically, Carol and David stayed this relationship in love for two years. And when she turned 17, her parents signed the paper so that she could marry David, who was 24. So December 24th, 1970, David and Carol were married. After marriage, everything appeared to be going great with the relationship. They were happy. You know, David went to work. Carol went to high school.
00:44:49
Speaker
Cause she's only 17. So she's like a junior senior, right? But her family was a huge support system. They supported Carol and David. Um, and their marriage, honestly. So like, how long did it take before he started beating her? Good. Yep. Nope. Doesn't beat her, but their marriage honestly goes well. Beats all odds because this is her first real time boyfriend and she's married him while she's in high school and he's older.
00:45:14
Speaker
Um, sorry, crotch problems just won't quit yelling in the background or children in the pool. If you can hear that, just ignore them. We do. Um, anyway, marriage is going well. And like literally the only issue they had was in 1978. So they've been married eight years at this point. They got into a huge fight. Carol took their daughter and left for two days and then went back and
00:45:37
Speaker
who after eight years of marriage hasn't had at least one bout, yes, strong disagreement. So typical marriage, especially since, you know, basically both of their first relationship, typical marriage, fine. Carol's father said that she was happy in the marriage, that she wasn't
00:46:00
Speaker
If she wasn't happy in the marriage, everyone would have known it. She would have told them. He's quoted as saying that she's full of vinegar, which I had to Google because I know I've heard that statement before. The actual quote is full of piss and vinegar.
00:46:17
Speaker
And it means like brimming with enthusiastic energy is what they said, but basically yeah, you're gonna you Like if mama ain't happy ain't nobody nobody everybody knows it. I will piss in your Cheerios, bro And so that's basically what her dad was saying right like she was good. She was great in marriage. She was happy. She was hard-working And so her dad said that she would typically work an eight to ten hour shift a day and
00:46:42
Speaker
She'd come home, take care of the kids, cook dinner, do laundry, spend time with her husband who she loved. She had a really great life. So David's passions were fishing in dirt bikes. There you go. That guy doesn't like it.
00:46:57
Speaker
And he, by all accounts, was an amazing father. He was constantly carrying around the two girls. He was said to be a very hard worker. It's factory he was employed at. Everybody liked him. Nobody had a bad thing to say. Everybody said he's a great guy. His neighbor said he was the first one to help them with yard work, fixing cars, loaning out his lawn mower. Just like a genuine human. Sociable, nice guy. Didn't talk a lot, but nice guy.
00:47:24
Speaker
Let's talk about David's mama. Uh-oh. David's mother's name was Helen Yulvenn. Yulvenn. U-L-V-I-N-E-N. Yulvenn. And she's around 65 years old. She's Russian. And I don't know, but she was large and in charge. Nice. She's a lot. A lot of mass.
00:47:47
Speaker
a lot of vocal cords. She's just a lot of person. Think of Marie Veron from Everybody Loves layman on crack. Everyone loves layman. Raymond. You said a layman. I said Raymond. You said a layman. No, I didn't. I will rewind this when we're done. There is so many times that I wanted to correct you, but I have not. Well, everyone loves Raymond. But think of his mama, Marie Veron. You just talked too fast. Yes. Sorry. So everybody says that Helen's a bit dramatic and she's had a very long
00:48:16
Speaker
hard life. Um she married young, stayed married for 20 years, gave birth to David, divorced her husband around 1950s, ends up getting remarried the next year. That relationship was very rocky, led to some turmoil we'll get into later but she's she's she's been rode hard and hung up wet as the saying goes. Right.
00:48:38
Speaker
If anybody doesn't actually know what that means, it's not a sexual reference at all. No, it's a saddle for a horse. It's a saddle for a horse. We're in Tennessee. We're redneck. Yes, we know this, but some people don't. I didn't think about that. Yeah, I'm just trying to help you out, bro. Anyway, so back to current. It's July 26, 1980. Helen ends up moving in with David and Carol.
00:49:02
Speaker
Which I'm sure as you can imagine is not the best of circumstances. Probably not ideal. Not the greatest. David says he doesn't mind because it's his mom. Right. And Carol goes along with it because she's a good person.
00:49:14
Speaker
And Helen basically offers to be a living nanny to their two children. Well, there you have it. So if you got two kids and two working parents, that's going to save you a lot of money and a lot of time driving back and forth. I mean, it's like cuts an hour out of your drive time back and forth to aftercare and daycare or nurseries or wherever you do your kids while you're at work. In the 80s. Yeah. So anyway, basically, um, that's where we are right now. Carol, while appearing to play nice,
00:49:43
Speaker
did not really like the new living arrangements. Nice. She would tell her friends that she hated Helen. She couldn't stand Helen. And every time Helen looked around, there was just a lot more tension in the household and her relationship with David. Like, basically Helen liked to stir up drama and was toxic. And David was the definition of a mama's boy. Nice. Nice. So that's where we're at currently.
00:50:07
Speaker
So i'm Carol told her friends that. I was a witch. Basically, but while she's telling all her friends, this I mean you got a vent right.
00:50:19
Speaker
She told David she's willing to try and give Helen moving in a shot. Basically, like I said, nice person. She's trying to make it work for her husband's sake. And, you know, maybe it's going to be helpful to have the living babysitter. Basically, Carol's just trying to be the bigger person. And the other side of it is she's a doormat and doesn't want to stand for herself. Which side do you want to take on? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So backstory. I'm going to jump back a little bit here. David had a very rough upbringing.
00:50:48
Speaker
Um, around 1954, when he was around eight years old, the state actually took David and his two younger sisters away from his mother. We're not sure why, but they were taken away. Okay. So just real, real fast. I know. Okay. Didn't we just take kids for no reason? Nope. And you're all like, Oh, please mom, take my children, your grandchildren and raise them as your own. Right.
00:51:15
Speaker
We're gonna get to that though. David's two younger sisters moved in with their father, their biological father. However, David was sent to live in an orphanage where he lived for two years, so from eight to 10, and apparently it was a hoard existence. Why would the biological dad take the kid, the two sisters? Because it was a different dad. All right, okay, thank you. So instead of kisses, they definitely got kicked. And after two years of living in Hell on this orphanage at 10,
00:51:45
Speaker
David was allowed to return to live with his mom. So after two years, David is allowed to go back to his mom. And honestly, it was her fault. He was in the orphanage in the first place, right? We understand that. But he never saw it like that. He took the strong opinion that his mother was rescuing him from the horrid life. And he loved her for it. Because again, she rescued him. So this is the relationship they formed.
00:52:14
Speaker
basically continued and it was David and mommy against the world type of deal. So it was said by everybody, David loved his mom, loved his mom, felt responsible for her as she's getting older. And also he felt like he owed her a debt of gratitude for saving him from the situation she placed him in. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So Carol's father even said Helen was like a queen to David and he treated her as such. He worshiped the ground she walked on.
00:52:43
Speaker
He also said that David told him mom's had a hard life, so now I'm gonna take care of her. All nice sentiments, but just bear in mind, this lady has eight other children. What? Eight. Okay. So nine total, eight that could help take care of her. A hockey team. Well, they were all girls.
00:53:04
Speaker
And David was the only boy. Ah, mama's boy. Gotcha. So in Helen's eyes, David could do absolutely no wrong. Their relationship was very twisted. Now, I'm going to just say, and you can feel free to disagree, agree, whatever. But it seems to me like from this point in the story is why I told you kind of the background in the middle.
00:53:30
Speaker
David's mental state appeared to deteriorate, or at least revert back to almost like a childlike state after his mother Helen moved in pretty quickly. Because up until this point, nicest guy ever, best guy ever, great father, loving husband, great coworker, great, you know what I mean? Right, but then the cancer was reintroduced, which was his mother. Yeah, so an example is David was at work with his mom outside in the car waiting for him.
00:53:58
Speaker
but he had to make a call before they could leave. However, one of David's coworkers was already on the phone.
00:54:04
Speaker
And apparently it took too long. So David beat the crap out of this guy because he made his mother wait outside for 10 minutes. Wow. So like, I mean, you went from like this great guy to do anything to help you to crazy person because mommy has to sit in the car. Like, I mean, do you see where like the shift happens? Yeah. I feel like this kid needed therapy. Oh, like massive quantities of therapy. Tons, tons, tons, tons of therapy. Um, yeah.
00:54:31
Speaker
So, uh, if you're thinking there's something weird about this, uh, sorry, I just skipped up like two pages here. I'll have to edit that out. That's, that's okay. I can't believe I don't get it. No, this is yeah. Anyway. Um, okay. What, how bad could the foster system have been? Like?
00:54:54
Speaker
Would love to you I need that background like I didn't know what see there's a lot of background because I feel like if he had gone through something that was just so Like ungodly right that he would attach to his mother like that and you know that So this this guy described as a small-town guy laid back super nice and helpful all of a sudden beating people up because mom had to wait in the cards it's a very dramatic shift in character right at least for me and if you're thinking
00:55:22
Speaker
You know, something a little weird about this mother-son relationship. Cause I was. Don't go there. You're not wrong. Don't go there. Several of Karen. That's gross. I don't want to hear it. Yeah. I don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear it. She doesn't know when, but there was a sexual relationship between mother and son at some point. So.
00:55:45
Speaker
I actually put my notes too. So all this is leading us to August 10th. So Helen moved in July 26th or August 10th, two weeks, right? And Helen and Carol have not been getting along. Surprise, surprise. They've been fighting. Or more accurately, Helen has been complaining and Carol has been taking it.
00:56:08
Speaker
And what what might help Helen be complaining about you ask everything everything Helen's stated you people treat me horribly and I would be I would be treated better in jail Mine you she's only lived there again two weeks Helen was furious that Carol didn't have any whole milk in the house. Yeah, not milk whole milk. Okay, I
00:56:31
Speaker
And then to further enraiture there was also no half-and-half our cool whip Because the children were gonna become anemic without this daily regimen of either whole milk whipped cream or Yeah, I'm some kind of dairy strong dairy strong strong dairy Maybe she was just like I'm not gonna say it. That's too disgusting I don't I don't want to go there again so bye so Helen is yelling about their lack of dairy and poor treatment basically just braiding Carol because she's a crazy person and
00:56:58
Speaker
So Carol goes outside to look over her garden because she needs a break, right? Right. She looks over the garden. She calms down. She goes back and goes to open the house and Helen has locked her out of her own house. When you said, I got done, I'm not gonna lie. No, no, no, like the doorknob. Helen is what Helen has her nine month old and her three year old in house with her and she's locked.
00:57:21
Speaker
Carol out of her own home, which for me would be like into the line. I just smashed in windows. I would have. Yeah. Yeah. I would have become like completely enraged. What's the word? I'm like a banshee, bro. Oh, like just lie. Tearing my way through. Oh, my gosh. It had been on like Donkey Kong. Yeah. Leaving you, leaving the house, leaving my husband. You're you're in a bag. Yeah. I'm out. You're not going to lock me away from my children. You knocked her out because you didn't have any dairy.
00:57:51
Speaker
Look, if my kids hadn't been in the house, totally different circumstance.
00:57:59
Speaker
No, it's my house. But psycho. OK, I agree. OK. But I'd be like, you know what? Fine. Lock me out. I'm going to go walking. I'm going to go do some shopping. And then I'm going to kick my husband in the nards for making us do this. Right? OK. But my kids are in the house. Oh, no. With somebody who's literally losing her crap over dairy products. And I don't. I did not Google it, but I don't think dairy has anything to do with anemic. Iron levels? Sure. So get them some spinach.
00:58:29
Speaker
Anyway, I'm no doctor, but I don't think dairy calcium, but I can call a psycho when I see a psycho. Oh, yeah. So Carol and David end up getting in this huge fight, presumably over Crazy Helen. And David said he was no longer hungry and he was going to skip dinner and he went and took a walk around the neighborhood. OK, so they got back into the house. Yeah, David didn't want to hear any of his wife yet. Any anything his wife had to say, basically, because you can't talk about mama.
00:58:56
Speaker
But your mom locked your wife out of the house. Yeah, yeah, and so he goes for a walk leaving his crazy mom alone with poor Carol again Well, yeah, it's all about you, right? So large Helen says she's too mad to eat Fine by me go down to your hole but Helen very quickly took that back and sat down so it's literally Carol and
00:59:22
Speaker
her two children and she's staring across at Helga, which in my mind, she's just a Helga, Helen. And this woman's got, you know, a whole plate and just complaining about Carol's cookies. This tastes like crap. Two bland. There's not enough onions in the rice. That was apparently. Oh my God. Oh, oh, she sounds, is it Elena?
00:59:41
Speaker
It is your grandmother like think about your grandmother's complaining about everything that is exactly how this this Flamin yawn is too chewy. Yeah, right. Oh That was messed up. Sorry. So um So this family was doing great. I'm not in trouble for that one. You are gonna get in trouble. I didn't say it. Oh
01:00:03
Speaker
For the record, Lisa called Ellen a comment. Lisa was the one. All right. So this family's doing great. They loved each other. They worked well. And now, within two weeks of battle acts, Helen's moving in. They're just deteriorating with this large, loud lady living with them. So they're sitting there dinner. Helen's complaining about everything. Nothing Carol does is right. Just going on and on. And that's Carol's night. Like, that was Carol's day. And if I was Carol, I'd have snapped.
01:00:32
Speaker
I had to shove the whole onion down that lady's gullet. I'm just telling you. But I feel like your poor mom puts up with a lot. My mom does put up. My mom's a frickin' saint. I always said it with my mom's mom. They just have a castle up there waiting for them. Oh gosh, they have to with all the crap they put up with me. Yeah. But so on August 11, the next day, David wakes up and Carol's gone.
01:00:55
Speaker
Which, who could blame her? Shocking! He can't find her anywhere. Her wedding rings have been left at the house. There's no note. She's not supposed to be at work. Car's still there, but Carol's just gone. So, David does what any husband's gonna do, and he calls the police to file a missing person case. His wife is gone. Did Helen eat her?
01:01:16
Speaker
Did she eat her? No. That was not, that was bad. That was bad. You're the one that's been calling her a heifer since the beginning. I put a picture of her, she's a large mean lady. And anybody that has, gets that upset about whole dairy products is just- And I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you guys, neither one of us are light, okay? This is not a- No, no, this is not- We are not fat shaming. We are fat, so we can do that. And we can- If I talk about, you know, when I make fun of Destiny,
01:01:46
Speaker
At least a skinny friend and tell her to eat a hamburger. That's skinny shavings. That's skinny shavings, yeah. I'm large and in charge, so. Anyway, so. So she wasn't eating. No, moving on. But she's gone. So for the next few days, everyone is out looking for Carol. David is literally just falling apart. An emotional wreck. He can't handle this.
01:02:07
Speaker
Um, and so during this week, this, this week of looking for his wife being super worried, super stressed, emotional, some of his friends invite him to church. And so he goes, um, to the next town, Rogers, Minnesota at the evangelist evangelistic. Uh, no, evangel. Wowzers evangelist. I would like to buy a Vangelical, Vangelical, Vangelical free church.
01:02:35
Speaker
I'm trying to look, I can't see it. Evangelical. Evangelical, thank you. I knew I said it wrong. I love you. That's my way of calling you dumb. Bless my heart. Bless my heart. And while he's there, his friends say, basically, come to church with us. Let's pray for Carol, save return. This guy has never been to church a day in his life. He's not religious at all, but he's emotional, right? Cling into someone, and guess what? He finds God. Now, I would like to climb up on my soapbox that I referenced in Mississippi. Oh, man. Oh, man.
01:03:04
Speaker
Because a lot of like. I like that you had to climb. Your fingers to get on your soapbox that was cute here's my soapbox go um every true prime podcast I listen to has respect for all nationalities all religions all.
01:03:39
Speaker
One or two bad apples should not spoil the bunch. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we're living in a time right now where like, if you're a Christian and you live in a different country, they like, lock your head off. Yeah. But my thing is, is like, literally we're, if you do not, if you make fun of, or you're, you're racist, you're a bigot, you're whatever, except Christians, they're the only religion
01:03:43
Speaker
Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess.
01:04:01
Speaker
So yeah, that bar was set. Yeah. Okay. There's a bar, right? And you can't say ABC or D, but we, we can talk about E all we want to, because they're not, they're not the double standard. Yeah. And I don't like those in any front. Now I am a Christian. Yes, you are.
01:04:20
Speaker
I don't like double standards across the board. I don't, I don't care what race you are, what nationality you are, what religion you are. You don't deserve to get a bunch of crap for your beliefs. They're yours. You have them. As long as they don't hurt other people. Just like I said in that one, he wants to be a vampire, be a vampire. Just be a Collins and don't eat people and be crazy person. Yeah. Whatever. But like, like, like, okay. So I do know some things about the Bible, right? New Testament. It's, there's not,
01:04:50
Speaker
like Jesus was a friend to everyone. He didn't pick and choose who he condemned. The only people that he condemned were like religious leaders. Those were the only people he was actually mean to. And so if you're gonna sit here in a biased tone, is that the word I'm looking for?
01:05:12
Speaker
from the outside looking in, you see a guy who was born to save humanity and he lived his life serving people. And then when he got to like Christians,
01:05:29
Speaker
infuriated him right yeah and so like I'm not gonna sit here and try to tell myself I'm a Christian because I feel like that's a broad spectrum it is I'm a believer I have a relationship with God exactly I believe in Jesus Christ but I'm not gonna give you guys a whole sermon back it's not about it's not about serving but like my going forward I say all that because I
01:05:51
Speaker
In every type of situation, you have extremists. You're always a cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. I know it. I know. But well, in every religion, there are extremists. 9-11. Yes. So what happens next? I do not feel, I do not believe is, should be said, well, this is just how Christians are. No, this is a crazy wingnut. This is not all Christians. Yes. Agreed. He's a crazy wingnut.
01:06:15
Speaker
All right. So, so, um, so I say all that to say he's a crazy person. It does not reflect on all Christians out there because I agree. He's a crazy person. Anyway, because I'm crazy too, but in a very different way. Yeah. So this guy goes to church one time in his whole life. I bet he's a master at the Bible. He is converted and he is obsessed with judgment day. Immediately. Naturally.
Linking Events to Judgment Day
01:06:40
Speaker
Immediately.
01:06:42
Speaker
So he would frequently link, and by frequently, mind you, this is a week from Carol disappearing, but everything around him was assigned directly to him from God that Judgment Day was coming, end of the world. So police- So can we just jump back in time for just a second? Yeah. Okay.
Abuse, Foster Care, and Returning Home
01:07:02
Speaker
All right. So you've got this kid who was somehow abused by his mom in his early years, was taken from his mother, placed in foster care.
01:07:11
Speaker
Orphanage. Yeah. Was released from the orphanage back to his mom. Yep. Where he clung to this woman as a savior. Right. Even though she. But no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, listen. And for the first time ever at this point in time where he's feeling emotional in his week. Right. Right. Because he was yanked from the orphanage. Yeah. And he claimed to his mother as a savior where he was emotional and weak. Yes.
01:07:36
Speaker
Okay, beat down, yes. Then he hears about Jesus and he's like, oh, a savior.
01:07:41
Speaker
Same thing. I'm sorry, but I think he's a mental patient. I really do. Oh, my friend. He's beating the rocks together, baby. There's no spark. The elevator does not go to the top. No, no, no. He's not the sharpest cookie. We'll go. Oh, no. I see what you did there. Police have continued to search for Carol and talking to everyone to just try to find any clues, because there's literally nothing.
Carol's Disappearance and Investigations
01:08:10
Speaker
But there's a few things that don't sit right with the detectives. So number one, Carol left her rings behind, right? Right. Which is fine. But quite frankly, I don't wear my wedding. I don't have my wedding ring on right now. I don't wear it five out of seven days a week just because I take it off and I'm in a hurry in the morning, whatever. Carol's fingers were swollen and they had been swollen since the birth of her last child. Couldn't get her rings off.
01:08:35
Speaker
So it was really hard and i'm thinking if i'm leaving you and your crazy mama i'm not going to take the time to crisco down my fingers wedge that puppy off just to leave like a statement piece right where her kids there, though that statement number two she left her kids after kids. So. i'm gonna say i'm not gonna all right.
01:08:54
Speaker
Some women will, in fact, 100% leave their children. But I'm gonna tell you what, guys, I'm gonna throw out a figure here. And it could be I could be completely wrong, right? But I'm gonna go with like 90% of women.
01:09:07
Speaker
are going to leave their kid. Well, she's already left in that one time when they got in a fight and she took the baby with her that time. Yes. So she's put on leaving him. She's not going to leave her kid. So that's the biggest issue. Plus, if she's leaving because it's a toxic environment, why the heck is she going to leave her two babies in a toxic environment? She wouldn't. She's not. So she left, she pried these fingers off her fat, these rings off her
David's Disturbing Jokes
01:09:30
Speaker
fat, swollen fingers. She pried off her fingers, guys.
01:09:33
Speaker
just to get away, but she left her kids. So neither of those two things sit really well with the police. So at this point, David's been into the police office multiple times trying to be of help with the investigation, but he has not been a suspect.
01:09:48
Speaker
So. I thought it was like general rule. It's always the spouse. You always. Right. Yeah. So the police at this point suspect foul play and they make their way over to the Greco factory where David works and they want to have a little chat with his coworkers. Right. So one of the coworkers said that David told him that he was 100% joking, mind you. He's joking. He's a funny guy.
01:10:16
Speaker
Zilarious oh, but he was joking once that he was gonna kill his wife But just because he really wanted to like slam the joke home. He described how he was gonna do it That's crazy, but just because he's just joke like we've all said it though Okay, your kid pisses you off. Oh my god. I'm gonna kill that kid, but not like
01:10:36
Speaker
hey i'm gonna take you outside and i'm gonna take a shotgun i'm gonna shoot you in the head and that's how i'm gonna kill you no that's not funny but that's what you so no no no i know what you mean i'm just simply saying that we've all been there at one point in time
01:10:52
Speaker
where you'll admit to somebody at some point, like, I'm going to kill that person. And then you're screwed. If that person ever died or, you know, they spit and you stepped in their DNA. Right. So another coworker, Renee, said David told her a funny joke that he was going to kill his wife by taking her on a snowmobile accident over thin ice and letting her drown. It was a funny joke. That's that's really specific. See? And I feel like I feel like that would be like the first thing I said, dude, like,
01:11:21
Speaker
I joke around with a friend of mine at work because some weird crap comes out of his mouth. And I'm almost like, this is two people so far. No, but I'm like, Chuck, I'm going to do a podcast on you one day. You're going to have to stop. Right. So, but David told Renee he would pay her, this is 1980 mind you, $1,000 if she didn't tell anyone about his jokes because he didn't want the police to get like the wrong idea. You know, because he's just a funny guy.
01:11:50
Speaker
So there are $5,000 he's going to pay you. Right. So there were several other coworkers who had similar stories about these. You can't see it, but I'm doing air quote jokes. David would tell about the multiple specific ways he was going to kill his wife. But they all reiterate David was a great guy. He's just joking. He never would do it.
01:12:12
Speaker
Steve Brandt, another coworker, also confirmed that he heard the, again, air quotes, joke David would say. But a few days after Carol had gone missing, David did come back to work and asked his coworkers not to say anything because then this is in parentheses, David said, listen, I'm just a funny guy, craft, or my art could get me in trouble.
01:12:36
Speaker
So just don't say anything to the police. Your jokes are art. Right? You're an idiot. So after all this, the police, after hearing all this, obviously, the police decide to bring David in and have a little chat with him.
01:12:50
Speaker
on the record. Was this before or after he was giving it to his mother? We don't know when. No, he and his mother had a sexual relationship at some point in their life. We don't know when. According to Carol's friends. Nasty. So the police decide to sit down with David and on August 18th, mind you, the 11th is when she went missing. The 18th has spent literally a week. Right. David comes in the station, talked to police.
David's Confession
01:13:12
Speaker
Now David is advised of his rights and he knows he's there as a person of interest. And David agrees to all this.
01:13:19
Speaker
But before he talks to anything, he goes around to every officer in the building, one at a time, not in a group, literally. One at a time he says, do you know the Lord? Do you know the Lord? Okay, you do good. Officer Bob, do you know the Lord? You do? You sure? Okay. Officer Smith, to all of them. Okay. Once they all said they know the Lord, he feels confident and he says, sits down and he looks at me and he says, and this is a quote, okay.
01:13:46
Speaker
Let me tell you what happened to Carol, because I know what happened to Carol. Did the Lord tell him? Nope.
01:13:52
Speaker
Cool. So wait, wait, wait, wait. What's the next question? Did the Lord tell him to do it? No. OK. I'm just I'm sorry. So that's just the David says this is we're going to go back and forth between David and the police here for a minute. David says Sunday morning, that morning, I went downstairs to see mama and she was in her bedroom reading the newspaper. I love your impressions. I don't even know how to talk in Minnesota, but I don't think that's it. And not even close. That's how we're like. Oh, don't you know? Oh, that's close enough.
01:14:22
Speaker
So she's reading the paper with tears in her eyes and she said in a very- Stop with the Southern accent. I'm doing three different people here. I gotta, I gotta different people. But you can't, you cannot do Southern for the North. Very, well, he's slow. So Southern works for slow and most people's mine. So in a very frustrated voice, his mama said, I gotta find another place to live. Carol don't want me here. And I probably should have never just moved here. But I said, don't you let what Carol says hurt you.
01:14:52
Speaker
She just needs a period of readjustment. And then I told my mama, I gotta do it tonight, so there'll be... So, that was David? David is telling this whole story. Okay, but, but, but, but... Why does David sound like a woman? Because that was his mom saying it.
01:15:09
Speaker
Oh, so, okay. Not David needing the idea. No, okay. So David said, his mom said, I've got to find a new place to live. Carol doesn't want me here. Probably shouldn't have moved here. And he tells her, I got to do it tonight. So there'll be peace in this house. So police asked, what did you tell your mom you're going to do tonight? He said, I told mama.
01:15:29
Speaker
I was gonna have to put her to sleep. I can't. I can't. I can't. Stop with the accent! So David, the police say, David, will you tell us exactly what you said to your mother that night? And what you meant? Well, I said I might have to choke her tonight. Then I might have to dispose of her body. And that's the best of my knowledge of what I remember me saying. Okay. So, it's okay.
01:15:52
Speaker
So let's try this and get away. Just listen story. I can't dude. Your southern accent is just ruining this. Okay. This has been a soda guys. It is Minnesota. But I'm, I'm from Tennessee. So everybody sounds like that. Yep. Everybody in the world. Okay. Yep. So police say, well, what did your mom say to the statement that you're going to have to choke her out and
01:16:14
Speaker
I suppose of her body. She said, do it. He said, David said she just looked at me with her sad, sad eyes, started to weep and then said something around about like, it'll be for the best, son.
01:16:28
Speaker
So then David goes on to, he spent the rest of the day fishing with a friend and he goes home that night.
David's Premeditated Plans
01:16:34
Speaker
He has another conversation with his mother and Helen tells him that she overheard Carol on the phone with somebody while he was out fishing saying that she's gonna leave him and take the kids. This is David telling all this to the police. So David tells the police during this conversation, he told his mom, mom, tonight's gotta be the night.
01:16:55
Speaker
Police said, when you told your mother tonight has to be the night, did your mother understand that you were going to kill Carol this evening? David said, well, she thought I was just kidding her about doing it, but she didn't think I, she didn't think I could do it. Did she? Police said, well, why didn't your mom think you could do it? He said, well, because for some time now I've been telling her I'm going to take care of Carol.
01:17:17
Speaker
Like took scuba diving, I was gonna do it. I was gonna make it look like an accident. But every time I said that, mama just always says, oh, you're just kidding me, David. So the police respond with, oh yeah, oh yeah. The police respond with, but your mother knew you were going to kill her that night, correct? And he says, I think my mom sensed I was actually gonna do it. I was gonna do it this night, that night.
01:17:42
Speaker
And we said, why does your mother think that you, since that you were going to do it tonight? And David said, well, cause when I came home, she told me what had happened around about the house. These are all quotes. So that's why I went redneck. He's a dumb dog. I went round about the house. Yeah. I went round about the house and I said tonight has to be the night. And I think she said, and I'm not certain exactly, but basically she said something about like, I think it's for the best, you know, for the kids. Okay. So that's the logic of these two crazy people.
01:18:12
Speaker
Instead of Helen, you know, the problem leaving, going back from once she came, it's obviously better for David to kill his wife. Yes. Because that's what's best for the kids. So logical. So logical. Yeah. It's yeah. So David continues to talk to the police. He ends up giving a 12 page statement.
01:18:34
Speaker
There are a few gyms in there on rec. He and we'll get over those few gyms, but he literally he gives the statement. He reads the statement. He goes on record of all the statement. He reviews the statement, makes corrections to the statement and signs the statement. I'm literally sitting here thinking he doesn't even have enough common sense to deny it. Like, oh, no, he doesn't even say no. That didn't happen. Oh, no. No, David's a dumb dumb.
01:19:01
Speaker
He's wicked smart guys. He actually like threw out this 12 page confession he told police he was he planned to kill Carol for about a year now and on the 9th two days before he killed Carol the day everything went down he and Carol spent the day scuba diving near Stillwater and he considered while he was down there just doing it he was gonna disconnect our air supply or crimper tubes and
01:19:25
Speaker
He said he also thought about wrapping the tube around her neck and strangling her while they're in the water, but that would show when her body got back up and he wanted to look like an accident. So if he just cut her air supply, then it would look like an accident. However, David told the police, he looked at her face and he just couldn't do it because he realized he loved her and his head was in a good spot, right? Then all frustration had left under the sea. So it was good. But two days later on August 11th, the night Carol was killed,
01:19:55
Speaker
Not good. So this is what happened, and these are David's words, which are paraphrased, obviously, for brevity's sake here. Uh, dare! Which, I gotta say, I feel bad for Carol, but I so hope this went down like it went down, right? So David said, Carol refused to have sex with him for the second night in a row. Two nights in a row. Good girl! Yeah, right? So he tries to have sex with his wife, and she refuses him.
01:20:21
Speaker
And then he tries to turn up the magic and romance, if you will, get some booty and Carol gets mad and says, and again, I so hope she sent this to him. And I apologize because I'm going to say a bad word, but I feel like it's important for her statement.
01:20:37
Speaker
So he tries to have sex with her and she goes, why don't you just go downstairs and fuck your fat mama? I'm sorry. I don't like saying the F word. There's something in translation. If you don't, if you don't look guys, women are feisty. Yes. They are feisty. So that's what, that's what she said when he wouldn't stop. Yeah. Panchi goes there to screw your fat mama. David said he tries to kiss her good night, but she still refused him. So he got mad and he choked her.
01:21:06
Speaker
He said he kept squeezing her neck tighter and tighter and kept his hands on her neck squeezing for about four minutes until she went limp. The only thing she said during this time was David, like the question, like, what are you doing? Yeah.
01:21:20
Speaker
So, Helen is dead. David did, not Helen, we wish, Carol. Sweet, sweet Carol. So David gets up, goes downstairs to wake Mama.
The Aftermath of Carol's Murder
01:21:33
Speaker
He says, I need you to come upstairs with me and make sure the three-year-old Heidi stays out of the bathroom and kitchen for a while. I've done it.
01:21:40
Speaker
So then he goes into this big speech to police about how he felt like this huge burden over both his kids and his mom were just gone. Really the big burden was his big mother, but beside the point. So he brings Helen upstairs, sits her down.
01:21:56
Speaker
um to where she can see all areas of the house like she can see the kitchen she can see the bathroom she can see the bedroom and he tells her about that he just murdered his wife and she says yes david i know you had to do it for the sake of these kids and if you hadn't done it i just moved out
01:22:12
Speaker
Hasta la vista, Helen. That should have been what happened, but no, can't lose mama. So, his mom's sitting there watching for the kids, so she doesn't come in. Okay. Yeah, that was literally her response. I just told my wife, well, you had to do it for these kids, kill their loving mama, and I had to left. So understandable.
01:22:28
Speaker
Perfectly understandable. Perfectly. Perfectly logical. So David moves Carol's body into the bathroom and he starts cutting off all her hair and putting it in a brown paper bag. Why? Well, I don't know. He throws that brown paper bag in the wood wooden oven and burns it, which side note, if you've ever smelled burning hair, yuck. It's disgusting. It's distinctive and disgusting.
01:22:52
Speaker
So then he took two knives, a 10 inch and a 12 inch serrated knife, and began to dismember Carol. He told the police he cut her body in half, cut her legs off below the knee, cut off her head, because he's gonna put them in bags to dispose of her in the lake, but what's he gonna do with all these innards that just won't stay there? What's a man to do? They just keep flipping out. There's the liver, there's the gallbladder, they just keep falling out. But you know what David has?
01:23:22
Speaker
Tell me. A garbage disposal. Oh my god. So he then proceeded to take all her organs out that he could remove and started shoving them down his garbage disposal at their kitchen sink and had the audacity to complain to police that it was really hard work and he sweated too much. True story. So he's going back and forth from the kitchen to the living room with hands full of body parts, putting them down the garbage disposal. His mom is watching.
01:23:50
Speaker
And she obviously saw what's happening, right? But it's okay. I still don't have words to continue. Nope. So he took the larger portions of Helen's body and put them into a gunny sack, which is like an army backpack type of thing. Like a duffel bag. Well, one's a duffel bag, one's a gunny sack. I don't know the difference. Okay. He added some rocks.
01:24:13
Speaker
This is around 3.34 o'clock in the morning. Then he just laid down to take a nap because this huge burden has been lifted from his family of his sweet, loving wife. So he wakes up around 6.30, loads up the bags with his wife, and drives out to Lake Weaver to drop his bags in the water, which is what he does.
01:24:29
Speaker
He then got back home, went to his room, and freaked out because he can't find his three-year-old daughter Heidi anywhere, but finally finds her she's sleeping on the floor next to the bed because she'd fallen out of bed. Did you catch that? The three-year-old was in the room when he murdered his wife. This is the same man's action.
01:24:48
Speaker
So towards the end of the statement to the police, because this is all him just telling the police all this. He goes on to rant about how this is literally. He goes on to rant about how there's too much crime, corruption, drugs, stealing, rape in this day and age. And for the love of my children and the love of mother, I had to do something to stop this pain and suffering. This is what he did.
End Times Justification
01:25:08
Speaker
Stop the crime. He's a great guy. He's an idiot. No, man. He was...
01:25:13
Speaker
He was sacrificed. Oh my god. He goes on a very big religious rant. He tells the police that Mount St. Helen had erupted. And since that's his mother's name, it's obviously a sign that the End Times are here. And he's just getting his family ready.
01:25:33
Speaker
Police said that he was very calm throughout the entire interview. He got a little excited a few times, but for the most part, he was very calm when he gave this entire statement, wrote it down, corrected it, like I said, signed it, initialed it. So at this point, David is being held for a murder case. He's not getting out. They'll set incredibly large. The police execute a warrant for his house, kitchen pipes, this kind of thing, his boat.
01:26:01
Speaker
David actually showed them where he disposed of his wife's body so they could recover it. He was worried about her not being able to get into heaven without her body intact, I guess. I'm not sure. Wow. More importantly, Helen's family, not Helen. Carol. Carol's family refused to have a funeral without her body intact. So this was super important for her family.
01:26:21
Speaker
Um, but most importantly, police also arrested Helen on charges of first degree murder. Yay. So side note in Minnesota law, criminal liability can rest on someone who intentionally aids, advise hires councils are conspires with our other wise procurers to commit a crime. So if they're involved in any, you know, about any way, shape, fashion, or form, you knew about it. You could have prevented it. You did nothing. So good minutes got it.
Helen's Verdict and David's Denial
01:26:50
Speaker
So Helen's attorney argued that she was a mother of nine, a grandmother, she's no threat, she should just be released without bail. They need to consider her high blood pressure. And Jill's just not gonna be good for her. I would like to reference back to her argument with Carol when she stated she'd be treated better than Jill. Let's show her that hospitality. No, I was gonna say it should be better off in the chair. Like the electric ones.
01:27:19
Speaker
The police said no, she's going to jail, high blood pressure or not. So David did not sit out early by, he started writing and mailing letters. Letter one, he wrote, and I am not gonna read them because they are crazy town banana pants, but he wrote a letter to his mother's lawyer basically taking all responsibility for the murders. His mother had no knowledge, she didn't help, she didn't know. He went on and on about how great his mom was, how helpful she was, she loved the girls, loved taking care of her grandkids.
01:27:46
Speaker
I talked all about how he was gonna drown Carol during the scuba diving trip on two different occasions, but his mind was not in turmoil while I was down there, so he didn't go through with it. Also, if this just shows you his mental state, in the letter to the lawyer, he said, he did not mean to say his mom helped or knew about this when he was talking to the police. He had absolutely
01:28:16
Speaker
no idea that the police would arrest him or his mother for the murder. He thought that they understood the strain Carol had put them through and never once did it hit my mind that I was going to go to prison. Oh Lord, they knew the strain Carol was. Um, uh, the, uh, words, words, words. Again, crazy town, but he had a pen.
01:28:40
Speaker
This is not Jaws. This is all true. No, no, no. Faith. Faith. Faith. Faith. I don't want to say that he's crazy because then he's going to be convicted crazy. No, no. So then he goes on about how his mom was just in a state of shot sitting there trying to make sure Heidi, the daughter, didn't see anything, but she didn't believe it was all actually happening. He also went into links about the horror relationship that Carol had with her family.
01:29:05
Speaker
Not true, right? All this crazy tale. So number two story, not story, letter that he wrote. Letter two is to his sister Denise. And this letter is extremely crazy. Goes on and on about Judgment Day in times, because he went to church that one day, he's an expert. He's really disappointed in God though, because God was gonna protect him, but he's still arrested. Goes on about Mount St. Helens versus mother again.
01:29:34
Speaker
Um, basically crazy rant the whole time. Um, he went on about how bad Carol's life was with her family. Again, not true how he loved her and she was star for love, blah, blah, blah. Not, not logical or reality at all. So let's get to the end here.
01:29:50
Speaker
December 1980, Helen goes to trial. David takes the stand. Why you would let that happen? I don't know. But obviously, um, tells them that I definitely bet. I bet he could defend himself to the wire, bro. Well, listen to this. So, okay. He, he defends his mom. She had no knowledge of what's going on. But when the prosecutor asks him if he had planned to kill Carol for months. Yes. Did you talk to your mother about your plans?
01:30:17
Speaker
Yes, but she had no idea that I was going to kill her. Like that. And for the next two hours, he was examined and he gave the same kind of like, but I feel like he had no idea. Did you talk about it? Yeah, I feel like in his feeble little mind because he was talking about it and she didn't believe he could actually do it in his weird, tiny little universe. Maybe.
01:30:40
Speaker
That's what, that's what it meant. Like she, she didn't know I was going to do it because she didn't believe I was going to do it. I, I don't know, but that's literally, did you talk to your mom that you were going to kill your wife? Yes. Did your mother know you're going to do it? No idea.
01:30:54
Speaker
Not a clue. You just said you talked to her about it. Yeah. So two hours, this guy goes on crazy town bus and literally Carol's entire family is just sitting there listening. Um, then Helen took the stand for 60 minutes crying the entire time for pitiful Helen, not Carol. Helen took the stand 60 minutes. Uh, she said that when her son woke her up, now listen to this, this is where he gets it from. When her son woke her up telling her he put Carol to sleep.
01:31:20
Speaker
She said she had no idea what that meant. She had no idea he killed her. She said I had no idea what he meant when he said he put her to sleep. I have no idea how he killed her at that point. We had no idea how he killed her, but you didn't know what he meant.
01:31:34
Speaker
Yeah, you see same strand of an oxymoron both of them. Yeah, so she also said that she sat there This same thing. Here you go. I sat there in my eyes closed the entire time Making sure the child didn't come in and see anything. Well, if you don't look out for the child, how? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa while he's dismembering
01:31:56
Speaker
Not while he's killing. Oh, okay. Okay. Cause I'm sitting here thinking they're all in the same bedroom. Cause you told me the one little girl was on the floor. No, no. The girl's on the floor. The mom's my bad. My bad. I'm sorry. Mom is sitting. Sorry. When mom is sitting, look out to make sure the girl doesn't come in. Okay. Because in her words, she did, I had to keep out eye out for Heidi because I didn't want her to see all this and throw a fit or something.
01:32:18
Speaker
because her mother is being dismembered. She wants the kid to so fit. Yeah. But her eyes were closed, even though she was on lookout. So she didn't see anything, but she was on lookout. Again. Best lookout ever. Both of them. Like they're... anyway. So she also said that when David told her tonight is gonna be the night, she just thought he meant he was gonna make love to his wife.
01:32:41
Speaker
Cause that's something I talk to my mom about. All the time bro. My sex life. Yeah, definitely. So when asked why she didn't call the police, she responded, he's the only son I have. So the jury went to deliberate and unfortunately took about 17 hours.
01:32:59
Speaker
But after 17 hours, they found her guilty of first degree murder. Wow. Seriously? Seriously. Seriously. She seemed so innocent. Right? She didn't see nothing while she was on the lookout. Am I seething? Am I seething with sarcasm right now? I need to know. Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure I was conveying that right. Yeah. One jury member that spoke out said it took them so long because they really wanted to make sure that there was no reasonable doubt.
01:33:24
Speaker
But in the end, they didn't believe what David said on the stand. They believed his first testimony to the police, which was read. So she was sentenced to life in prison. Her lawyer again argued very, very hard that she had high blood pressure. So prison was just not good for her. Right. But no one cared. And she was sentenced to life in prison.
01:33:49
Speaker
I can't believe they would do that. I just don't understand. Why is high blood pressure that big of a deal? Everyone in America has high blood pressure. We're all obese. Not all of us, but you know. Strong majority. Strong majority. So David's trial comes up in February 1981.
Insanity Defense Debate
01:34:03
Speaker
We're getting to the end. Sorry. I know I've gone super long. And his lawyer obviously pled not guilty by reason of insanity. Yeah. Wouldn't you?
01:34:11
Speaker
Um, the defense tried like literally everything, multiple issues. They said they had family problems. They had money problems. They argued about the child rearing. Um, and did you know, and this was said in court in front of her family by a lawyer that she went to bed in the nude and would not have sex with her husband, which is mixed.
01:34:34
Speaker
Maybe it was hot. Are you kidding me right now? She can go to bed naked if she wants to. That doesn't mean she has to have sex. Are you kidding me right now? Yeah, no, that was I'm I'm, um, they hadn't had sex in two weeks and he was a frustrated man. Okay. And I like that word so many. I'm going to use it one more time. That that was really your case. Yeah. That's like, I don't have a case. He, he went into the police station and he'll get maybe not a kiss. I didn't maybe, okay. Case was probably the wrong word, but like your,
01:35:03
Speaker
Defense at that moment was she went to bed naked and wouldn't have sex. And that was mixed signals for David. I get into the shower naked. Anybody, anybody else get into the shower naked? Is that is that I get naked when I change clothes? Oh, but you didn't have sex with Frankie when we were naked. I'm going to tell him apparently when I change clothes. Game on. Game on. That means the red light district. Red light district. That's what they used to call like, you know, the horror, the horror central. We don't. I don't like that word. I'm sorry.
01:35:33
Speaker
But yes. Prostitute. Yes. County. Yes. So anyway. Ladies of the night. Basically, they're saying he's crazy. That's why he said all this. He's crazy. But the lawyers also made Carol out to be a jealous shrewd. She was just intimidated by the relationship David and Helen had. David was stuck in the middle.
01:35:53
Speaker
And he took Carol's life in the heat of the moment, and when Carol told him to go screw his fat mama, he was enraged and just couldn't think of it. And he couldn't think straight. Oh man, I was about to get really bad. I'm gonna shut up now. Yep. I'm gonna lock this. Yep. Lock it up. Here's the key.
01:36:08
Speaker
Several psychologists came in and basically said, I would like to stay for the record. She took the key when I handed it to her to take the key. Yeah. So basically the psychologists that were brought in said that he knew when he was killing Carol, that he was killing Carol, but basically went backcrack crazy afterwards.
01:36:25
Speaker
medical jargon there. However, I want to go back to the fact that he dismembered the body. He, his mom helped clean up the scene. He took a nap. He still went and hid the body. And he had his mom, he woke his mom up, had her look out for the children. There's all these logical things you do in a crime. He did all that. So he was, I mean, he's crazy, but not mentally insane. No, no, no, no, coherent enough to know. Coherent enough. Okay. So like you can get a crime and you're like, and it was heat of the moment.
01:36:55
Speaker
okay you you did the crime that person's gonzo right but then to sleep wake up the next morning and think oh well i can get away with this yeah i'm sorry that's logical to me that's a very logical thought
01:37:13
Speaker
being had at that moment. So his his poor attorney really had nothing to work with. Also tried to throw up his bad background in childhood. Basically, the prosecution said, you know what? Lots of people.
01:37:25
Speaker
have bad backgrounds and they are not out killing, dismembering, and shoving their wife's organs down the garbage disposal so I don't think that's a logical excuse. I just want to know who stood in line to take that case. Like, you know, you know, hiding under their desk to say they were throwing paper away air quotes so it wasn't him. No, I'm sorry guys, I'm super busy. If you're a court appointed attorney, you can't turn down the case. Yeah.
01:37:53
Speaker
So you're screwed with doing that. I could not even imagine. I've been like, can we just have a plea deal? Like, he said he's guilty. You know he's guilty. Let's just come up with something. Please don't make me go to court in front of him. Look, just say that we're going to take like death off the table and he can have life. Like, that's that's that's the plea deal. Well, please anything. Don't make me. Let's not prolong this. I'm out of lawyering with love done with this. No one's going to take me serious. Right. This is like an episode of Blue's Clues, guys. OK, we can jump into the map. We know exactly what happens.
01:38:23
Speaker
So co-workers on and off the stage, some for David, some against David, but pretty much unanimously all said his mental health deteriorated very quickly after his mother moved in. David took his own defense. Good boy! And said a lot of things, but I think it's important to state this one statement David made. Look at it this way. Now that I've gotten it out of my system, we should be okay.
01:38:50
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Yep. So that's, yep. I've gone and murdered someone, so I'm done. I've done it, guys. It's a once in a lifetime deal, guys. She got done. So the jury went back to deliberate, and we're actually very torn.
01:39:08
Speaker
About why I'm so sorry they were for they okay, so this is why this is why this is why I Seriously have an issue with people's minds Come on dude well, and you have twelve people on a jury right now who have listened to this crap show Okay,
David's Conviction and Helen's Parole
01:39:27
Speaker
this is like a Broadway show at this point stick
01:39:31
Speaker
Comedy yeah, like this is bad slacks and there's somebody there. That's like well guys But literally there's one guy. I'm gonna hug my tree. No, that's not it. Oh, please tell me then so this is why Basically, they had a hard time because David was honestly a good guy a great guy had everybody liked him He helped everyone and he just snapped in this heat of the moment. He snapped and it was
01:39:59
Speaker
It was one of those things that like, you know, could my wife do something to make me snap? Maybe. Would I want to be convicted? No. And that was literally- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So quarter point of therapy for that juror and let's get his wife safe. Cool. But that's literally, he was like, he just, he was a great guy and he just snapped and
01:40:19
Speaker
can't we all see us ourselves snapping can we just see like literally i'm sorry but i'm gonna go i'm going tree hugger i'm sorry so that's somebody who's got a rocky marriage and i have thought about it and if i'm next on that podium i want to i want someone to say not guilty
01:40:38
Speaker
But after seven and a half hours, they did convict him guilty. What did you just say? I don't know. What did I say? You said if I was on that podium, I would have wanted somebody to say not guilty. That guy's probably thinking. Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about like you. No, the guy basically is like, if I'm on that, if I'm on that. We're about to have some kind of an intervention right now. Like, okay.
01:40:59
Speaker
I love you. You're my favorite. But that's my brother, blood, right? Yeah, that's what should have happened to this. Like, he's basically saying he can see himself up there next. He's got a mouthy wife. And so and so the judge at that point, like in my mind, would have been like, please state your reasoning.
01:41:16
Speaker
Click like, you know hammer. Let's go ahead and let all judges know this guy's name for when we see him We can all be like hat. Let's take bets. Well, how long before we see him? No, no, no I've been like I'm gonna hold you in contempt for a little bit. I think you're a dangerous Yeah, right. Yes, so they did they did convict him guilty on First degree murder and listen to this
01:41:41
Speaker
Carol's parents were awful to her. Remember, deprived her of love, horrible people. Her father- The 15-year-old at the time that got to marry her 22-year-old sweetheart. Her father, her father stated, I don't care what anyone said. David was a good man and a good father. I don't feel any animosity towards him in my heart. I just feel bad for him.
01:42:02
Speaker
Nope. That's that's her that's her dad. Nope. Now. No. Agreed. Now in Minnesota when you're convicted to lie you have to serve at least 17 years before your first parole hearing comes up. Yes. So 1994 I believe his first parole hearing came up and the judge said uh no turn around go back. Yeah. Mama. Thank you. Mama at that point was paroled because basically they they filed a bunch of appeals for her saying that
01:42:29
Speaker
She should have gotten a lesser sentence. Like first degree murder was the only thing on the table. It should have been like, you know, like an accomplice type of deal. And it wasn't presented to the jury. They drug it out on in years, but 1994, she was released to a nursing home. She was 80. She was in horrible health. That's why they released her. She died same year. Adios, Helga. Yeah. Peace out. Hope you only got skim milk the entire time you were in prison. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so. And I hope they didn't sell you or give you
01:42:57
Speaker
Right, right. No full loaded dairy. No. Just the skim, low fat optional. No, no, not even skim. No, no, no. We're going to go with some almond milk. Some kind of. Right. Oat milk. Oat milk flavored oat milk. So 1994 David goes up for parole. Judge says, uh, bye bye. Goes back to jail. Six years later, he comes back. It's 2000 up for parole again. And they, and every six years,
01:43:26
Speaker
her entire family come and speak out against the parole. And so, 2000, the Supreme Court, or the court, or whoever, again says, adios, back to prison. No. Six years later, 2006, he comes back up, and the judge says, listen, you were given things you needed to do to be able to get parole. You haven't done them. Seeing it in six more years. Yeah. So for six years, you can't get your crap together and do whatever, right? I will not murder again 100 times. I don't know.
01:43:57
Speaker
I will not murder her. I don't know why we have to keep doing this on one of the appeals. I believe it was her sister said
01:44:15
Speaker
You know, it's not fair that he gets to get out and Helen didn't get to see her. No, Carol, your mom's name is Carol and that's my mother-in-law. So that's what I think. I just think Carol. So her sister said Carol didn't get to see her daughters get married. She never got to see her meet her three grandsons. He doesn't need to get out. However, in 2016, his fourth attempt for parole
01:44:41
Speaker
came up.
David's Release and Family's Fears
01:44:42
Speaker
The Stebbins family all came out in force again. Five family members gave all the statements. This is his fifth parole attempt. All five members gave all these statements. They had done a change.org to basically say, do not release. But he was released. He's 80 years old. He was released. Her mom even said, I'm afraid if you release him, he's going to come after me because we've been the one keeping him here.
01:45:09
Speaker
Um, but he was sent, he spent the next six months in Willow River Moose Lake Correctional Facility. Um, which was kind of like a halfway thing, a minimum security as part of the regiment in his education for preparation release. And in April, 2018, he was released, um, and allowed unrestricted freedom into the world. I got nothing. I got nothing. There is nothing. I got nothing.
01:45:35
Speaker
Her parents actually have a Facebook page for, and I believe it's like remember Carol or something like that. You killed your wife. Yeah. You dismembered her. And killed your wife with your daughter in the room. In the room. Yeah. And then just you're free. That's okay.
01:45:54
Speaker
I don't, I don't give a crap. I don't care that he was 80. I was just gonna say that. Like, I don't care if he was 110. Like, no. Yeah, no, he should never, ever, ever have been allowed out again. He doesn't need to chase the air that I breathe. No. Nope. None. Condolences to Carol's family. Her daughters? Yep. And I hope, like you said, I hope to my life that she told him to go fuck
01:46:17
Speaker
his fat mother. I really, really, really hope that she spoke those words because that's just a shot in the berries for David. She deserves it. Not she, her. He deserves to be shot and she deserves to be remembered better than what she, I mean to be treated better.
01:46:42
Speaker
her kids didn't even get to know her man. No. One was three. One was nine months old. Like it was I mean and it was hard like even her brother at one point was like she did not deserve this. She didn't. No one deserves that. She was a sweet girl and like at one point his his attorney tried to say that like like they tried to say that you know this was a reaction because he was angry because she she had told someone on the phone. I don't
01:47:07
Speaker
She was gonna leave and take the kids but even her family was like, that's not true Her mom said she was outside overlooking her garden to plan to plant for next season You don't plan a garden for next season if you're gonna leave Like she wasn't leaving we would have known we didn't admit it. He just be sad I'm sorry, but even there is nothing in the world that could come out of my mouth That would justify anyone killing me. No, but do you know what? I?
01:47:34
Speaker
I do think this story goes to show one thing and I just thought about it. One thing very, very, very clearly.
01:47:42
Speaker
is that when one person damages your mind, that damages a lifetime if you don't get it fixed. He had a happy, healthy marriage. His birthday was that week, and Carol was out shopping for his birthday. They were fine. And his mom moved in, and two weeks was all of it took. That cancer came back. He was in remission. He was living an actual life. A happy life. Great dad, great neighbor, great co-worker, great husband.
01:48:11
Speaker
large and in charge, Helen moves in and in two weeks, he reverted back so much. In his mind, it was a good plan for him to murder his wife, chop up her body and dispose of her. Like in his mind, that was okay. In two weeks, that's all it took for his mind to revert back. So this in general is a kid that desperately needed help.
01:48:38
Speaker
from the word go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This was this was a long time ago. This is something and that's it again. But we, you know, again, we started back a ways away where that kind of treatment wasn't available. OK, but like, but he was healthy. We talk about signs and we talk about like, but here's the deal. I feel like nobody really, really knows anybody. We talk about that all the time. Yes. And so when she makes the comments that she's making, she's making it to be strong and bold.
01:49:06
Speaker
Okay. And he took it as a threat to himself. And then. I think he was planning on doing it anyway. Absolutely. Because he didn't want mommy to leave. But how do we literally live in a world where you can't say what's on your mind? Because everybody's offended about everything. And everybody's on a hair sugar pin. Enough to murder. That's what creeps me out. Unfortunately. That's what creeps me out. Unfortunately. Thick skin, bro.
01:49:32
Speaker
I don't care what anybody says. Guess what? I don't know you. Even if I know you. There are two opinions that I value in my life. When I think about myself and what got things to me and do those two things a line. That's it. I don't care. Yeah. It is what I just.
01:49:48
Speaker
I just, I mean, he, my whole thing is he was healthy and happy and prospering. And that's what creeps me out the most about it. And normal life. Yeah. It's like he, it's like, it's almost like, like, you know, in sci-fi movies.
01:50:04
Speaker
in the Avengers movie when Bucky had the metal arm and he first came back winter soldier and he's all crazy and killing trying to kill Captain America. Yeah. And then he remembers Captain America and they whisper that one word to him and he snaps back in a crazy. Yeah. It's like his mom was that crazy that word to make them snap back. Yeah. Like he was fine. You didn't even need counseling. Yeah.
01:50:25
Speaker
Just stay away. Go torture one of your other eight kids. Like, bam. But I do think it shows how, like, if you've got someone... But here's the deal, and I'm gonna drive that back. She had eight kids. Only one of them committed murder. Yeah. Because they, in his mind, he was attracted to, whereas the rest of the family was rejected by, not rejected by, but... God help me.
01:50:52
Speaker
disgusted by. Yeah. Their mom. Yeah. And he he dove back into her. Yeah. Whereas the rest of the family was like, dude, if I never see you again, it'll be too soon. So it's it is. It's all it's all that crazy thing. You got your mental health's important and toxic people. You know what? I cannot grow a plastic tree. I kill them. I kill everything. Yeah. Any any living little garden plant. I try so hard. No.
01:51:22
Speaker
But I do know that when you do do produce or do do, yeah, you have to prune things back for them to grow, right? Correct. Family trees are no different. You got a toxic branch. You prune that crap out. Yeah. You got to trim it, man. You got to keep it healthy for sure. I mean, everybody's got, you've always got that one family member that you tolerate because they're a little crazy, the black sheep, whatever. Is that me? I think it's me. A hundred percent you. It's like, you know, your weird uncle, like, you know, he's weird. He's got a weird sense of humor. He's funny.
01:51:52
Speaker
You don't want to spend a lot of time with him, but he's harmless. That's different than a toxic person who literally when they walk into you as a human have to identify what that toxicity is. Yes. And if you are not looking at that person as toxic and you're looking at that person as a savior, you are.
01:52:13
Speaker
I don't, Faith, I don't know. I don't know. There's no way to predict that kind of behavior. Carol didn't do anything wrong. She was trying to be a good wife. She was trying to be the bigger person. She was trying to do everything right. And how in the world would she have ever seen that coming? No, no. They've fought 100,000 times. And even if he said what he said was true, she could have said 100,000 things that would have been worse than that over the course of their
01:52:42
Speaker
They're married. And I didn't put it in my story because there's a lot of stuff about how he said that he felt like he was driving the devil out of Carol when he killed her and her organs were evil. That's why the garbage disposal is trying to spit them back out. It's because you're trying to put a whole spleen in there, bro. No, it's because legitimately- He hadn't even gone to church at that point.
01:53:04
Speaker
It was an insanity. It was an insanity defense. It was, but he knew what he did. He knew what he did. And he was trying to create a scenario. No, I don't think he was all there. A hundred percent. I don't disagree with that. But he was aware of what he was doing. He knew he was killing his wife. Exactly. But you said that he was saying all that before he even went to church, which leads me to believe. No, all that happened after he, his wife, quote unquote missing.
01:53:31
Speaker
He went to church the same week and then all of a sudden judgment days coming into the world. But when he would later talk to police, he would talk about all this like fire brimstone judgment day in his mindset, but he hadn't been to church yet. So he mixed up timelines he kind of talked back and he legitimately
01:53:52
Speaker
I think he was fine before Mama Helen came in. And I think there was some severe trauma, whether it was sexual, emotional, whatever, multiple forms of trauma. I think he reverted back to a childlike state in his mind. And it was not, it was no longer a linear. It was a, it was a, it was a vortex in there and word salad. He just couldn't, you know what I mean? Like, yeah.
01:54:18
Speaker
because even the way he'd answer questions, they'd ask him questions. He'd say yes, yes, yes. And then say something that disregarded everything he just said. Like it was like, he wasn't, he just, all cylinders were not firing. The engine would putter, but would not start man. But I don't think he was crazy. I think he knew what he was doing. But I do think his mom drove him to that by her very presence being there because he was not
01:54:43
Speaker
He was no longer thinking rationally. And I think that like for anybody, it's like when you're in a situation like that, whether it's jury or judge, it's always, always going to be your personal preference of what that life is valued as. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like we have a law and the law says I for nine. Right. And this is way back when. Yeah. And it didn't matter what your beliefs were. I for an eye. You stole.
01:55:14
Speaker
I'm going to take something from you, your head. I, I killed. So I'm going to take something from you. It was your life. Yeah. It was, you know, restitution had to be made. Exactly. And so, but now in our day and age, in, in what we know about like the human mind and the way that things work and then scientific facts, scientific non facts, all of that, like how can you sit in a jury without personal preference? You always do.
01:55:44
Speaker
That's, that's, there's no such thing as true justice. There's no biased jury. Never. Everybody's got their own opinion on it. Maybe, you know, Susie Q there has an awful mother-in-law and thinks that she could talk Billy Bob into often me any night. I'm guilty.
01:56:02
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Like you take your human experiences and you bring them into the decisions you make now. Which is why when his mother came back in, he couldn't make decisions as David Hoffman would anymore. Because he made decisions based off what mommy's son should do. Because it all revolved around his mother. His whole world revolved around his mother. So anyway, that's Minnesota. It's a wild ride, isn't it? No, no.
01:56:28
Speaker
I didn't like that ride. I didn't. I mean, no, no, there was no safety belts. No, no, I'm pretty sure that my, my, my face hit the windshield a few times. Yeah. Whip lashes occurred. Only because you had to tell me something I didn't want to hear. I believe you stuck your, I did. In my ears. It was a very mature adult thing to do, but guys.
01:56:48
Speaker
we are we're about to bounce um we've already hit two hours hour an episode that is not the intention here but when we get when we get fired up about something we're gonna talk about faith talks a lot let's just be honest yeah she's i get invested in my characters my voices they're all southern no matter where they're from literally the worst rendition of a minnesota accent i've ever heard in my life i don't know the sort of people talk like anyway
01:57:14
Speaker
I have got our link to our Facebook and our Instagram in the show notes. Um, I'm going to post pictures as usual. Uh, if you have any comments, concerns, stories you'd like us to look into twist tell true crime at gmail.com. And we'd love to hear from you. We absolutely hope you have a great week. Bye.