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135- Going Vegan: "100 mile ultra as a vegan; why eat animals?"
86 Plays2 months ago
Join us in Series 2 of the Going Vegan show for conversations with people about their vegan journeys: The first signs that veganism might be an option for individuals, making the switch, the challenges, the surprises...and everything in between!
In our third episode of this second series, we speak to Josh, who tells us about a vegan journey based in New Zealand, starting from seeing a friend's Facebook post and has led him to take his body to the limits in athletic performance as a vegan runner!
If you enjoy this episode, check your feed for the many other Going Vegan episodes that have been dropping throughout the last year & a bit.
If you'd like to hear more of what we do, set up all your notifications, as we release two other weekly shows: Vegan Week- where we discuss the week's vegan/animal rights news- and Vegan Talk- where we go deeper into one subject in particular that is relevant to the vegan movement.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
To get in touch, email us via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Josh & Ant
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Transcript
Josh's Introduction to Veganism
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, my name is Josh. Welcome to The Going of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? So they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute, you always pick
00:00:38
Speaker
long as you don't get the wee brilliant with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:46
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Josh, thanks so much for being with us today. Really, really excited to to hear your vegan story. And you know we we met like three minutes ago, so this is gonna be proper authentic storytelling and and learning about this. So yeah, really, really excited about that. Could you get the ball rolling for us and give us a bit of an insight as as far back as you can go, the first little kernel of a possibility
00:01:17
Speaker
that um a life where you avoid using animal products or you know maybe stop eating meat or something like that the first kind of little hint that might that might be something to come or that veganism might be something that would feature in your life you know in several four years further down the line yeah absolutely i didn't even know what being vegan was prior to initially coming across a little taste of this life and initially it was seeing someone's video that they had posted on Facebook. I cannot even remember who posted it but it was one called this six minute video will make you speechless and I just got curious between the link of humans becoming very unhealthy disease and
00:02:00
Speaker
potentially it being caused by eating animals. And can I ask, ah when was that roughly that you that you so you saw that video? You said it was a friends Facebook video. yeah Yeah, I'd love to actually go back and see who posted it because it'd be very interesting now knowing that they probably knew a whole lot more than I did at the time.
Transitioning from Vegetarianism to Veganism
00:02:19
Speaker
And for sure.
00:02:20
Speaker
up to be able to know but maybe I'll never know I'm also content not knowing adds a little air of mystery to it can you remember what your your feelings were when you're you're learning this so so tell us about a little bit about the video itself and and sort of what what triggers it had for you at the time So it's a video of these people dressed up in their suits in a meat processing factory and I just thought it just seems so outrageous that there's a part where they're they're just doing these things and treating these animals like products and just had other images of people being overweight going to the supermarket and stuffing their trolleys or their carts full of meat and other products and then just becoming
00:03:02
Speaker
super overweight, unhealthy, having to go to the doctors, getting pieces is cut out of them or getting their stomach stapled and all this and just kind of gently posing a potential link to gorging on meat and animal more products. And for me, that was around 2013. So well over 10 years ago where that definitely kicked it all off for me and got the ball rolling. Definitely got me more.
00:03:27
Speaker
into researching do we need to eat meat if we don't then what do we eat and so forth so i'm assuming you were you were consuming meat at at that time yep meat dairy and eggs everything under the sun i used to say and i was ignorant i was completely ignorant i had no idea i used to think that cows just made milk i had No idea the process in order to make milk. So what are those next steps for you then? You've kind of had a little bit of insight as to, you know, maybe there's something not quite right about this this consuming meat thing that seems to be like an everyday part of everyone's lives. What followed? I posed the question to myself of, am I an animal lover? I consider myself an animal lover. We grew up with a cat and a dog. It's very normal in New Zealand and many other Western cultures.
00:04:16
Speaker
But then I started to think about the animals that were on my plate and I asked myself would I want to slit an animal's throat and the answer is no. I mean yes physically I could probably do it. I wouldn't want to do it though and I think doing it on a regular basis would be rather unpleasant. So from there it was small steps into becoming vegetarian.
00:04:37
Speaker
doing away with, I remember my last meat meal was a chicken meal and it was just kind of like, okay, that's that. No longer. And yeah, it takes steps to transition. Sure. And and how how long is that process taking? Like is is that like over the course of a couple of days or several months, several years?
00:04:58
Speaker
I would love to have an accurate timeline to look back and go. How quickly was it that, yeah, I changed to being vegetarian and then I would say six to seven months later I would consider myself.
Cultural and Social Challenges
00:05:11
Speaker
vegan and looking back at it well being in that time I thought it was quite a lot of time but seeing many other people's journeys and hearing their points or their timeline it seems like a relatively quick transition. and And like in terms of how your own sort of sense of identity both within yourself but also kind of externally be interesting to hear how how that developed for you because, you know, well we'll read stories of celebrities who say like, oh, I've i've gone vegan, but actually they've just tried it for for two minutes, but they've ascribed themselves the label, whereas other people will sort of be almost like secret vegetarians or so secret vegans for for many years before they even start using the label. kind of How did things fall for you? Yeah, initially it was quite a difficult period for me because I was at a job that I didn't like in those
00:06:03
Speaker
ah bit of a culmination of things that changed and I'll never forget one of the colleagues at the time that at the job that I didn't like he was just about to retire and he was he looked very unhealthy and he was eating lots of pies and he said to me oh you know I knew a vegetarian and they looked very sick and he pretty much kind of muttered some lines that was trying to dissuade me from making this choice and I doubt that he's still alive because he looked that unhealthy and you know here I am 10 years down the track thriving but yeah certainly at the time I was a little bit unsure and yeah certainly like you said I was reluctant to put it out there and obviously only told a few people I trusted about my decisions to taking steps to becoming a vegan and well vegetarian initially and then vegan from there so yeah initially I
00:06:55
Speaker
only knew a handful of people that were vegetarian and like I spoke about I didn't know anyone that was vegan or I didn't even know what it was at that stage. Yeah and were those people that you knew like did that that give you heart or was that like a a reassuring thing or were they sort of not particularly useful examples like were there worries there? I would say some skepticism. I wanted to know if it was a sustainable lifelong thing that I could do and be healthy as and here. Two examples were both my my nana and my grandma. and One of them ate meat and drank alcohol and the other one was vegetarian and didn't drink alcohol. And you could guess which one lived longer. So I thought, all right. It was the one that was vegetarian and didn't drink alcohol.
00:07:41
Speaker
yeah So yeah, it's certainly a good example in here and a couple others that were certainly living well into the older age. Yeah, sure. Okay, so so you've kind of, you've got on board the vegetarian train and you're you're using that label like externally as well, like and in in the workplace and what have you. How did that develop into veganism? like Take us through that journey. Like I said, I didn't know the process in order to make dairy and to me once you take steps to becoming vegetarian then it seems to kind of evolve and I guess being in that space was a catalyst to search more and research more and just uncover things that I thought I knew like we're told in our country that you need.
00:08:29
Speaker
dairy for strong bones and you need meat for protein and all these myths that you and I know are untrue and yeah certainly with the age of the internet and having all this information available to us it seems absurd that we just keep the blinders on and just ah allow ignorance to cover up what is actually happening. So I mean like would you say the the environment like that you've described like the country and the culture you live in like is that conducive to to being vegan or like would you say it puts up more barriers than then helpful things or like what are the pros and cons there in terms of the the environment that you're in?
Ethical and Personal Growth in Veganism
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, initially for me, I would say it was more difficult, certainly, because I didn't know that many people that were on this path. And yeah it's a very dairy heavy country. Meat and dairy are huge exports from our country. So certainly there's a kind of common talk that, oh, you know, you're not supporting the main industries of our country. What are you doing? That's not very patriotic of you. And like I said, also that we're told that we need dairy and strong bones which is an absolute myth so yeah certainly it's difficult to
00:09:39
Speaker
kind of counter that and be confident doing so in social settings absolutely yeah yeah the social settings can I mean for me that's always way harder than than actually like finding food to eat or stuff like that that's all or your own health that's that's straightforward it's the social things that can be the hardest I'm interested that you in terms of you you saying that um sort of once you become vegetarian like it's the start of a process towards veganism. I mean, from my for my example, I i was vegetarian for for several years before even considering veganism. I think I just thought that's enough. like ah I don't think I'd even consider things. But like from your point of view, was there a kernel of possibility of veganism like right from the start of of being vegetarian? like did Did you see it as a continual piece of work that needed doing? or If I had someone guiding me, I would love to have had that, just someone saying, oh, you know this is possible. This is what you need to do in order to take the next step. And I didn't have that. It was very much navigating it by myself. At the time, I knew one person who was vegan. He did it for health reasons. His dad died of heart issues. And so I had him helping a little, but yes, certainly most of it was me figuring it out. And initially, you know, is honey vegan and that kind of thing and trying to look into different groups and get a clarification on what is what. And was there ah was there a fixed point where you were like, right, I'm vegan now? Or is it like a gradual thing? Or like, how did that that final step?
00:11:14
Speaker
Manifest itself. I did actually write a few things down at the time I didn't journal a diary and I did write that I stopped having cheese around Sometime in June so it wasn't a fixed date and again. I would love to go back and see Go all alright today's the day, but unfortunately it wasn't quite as clear as that and I pick June 8th is my date So it's probably not the exact date, but it's pretty darn close really and yeah from then I was actively doing away with all animal products well you know like at the time the only thing I didn't know about was honey so I did have some music bars for a short time after but yeah from there cheese was off the menu and yeah I like to look and at it like I like to look at it like letting go of something people say I have to give this up and you can frame it in a way that is helpful or it's taking away and
00:12:06
Speaker
Letting go of something is your choice that's enabling you to do so, whereas taking away is like, oh, you can't take it away from me. It means the same thing, but it also is completely different. Yeah. it's a Well, it's a completely different attitude, isn't it? And I like that that that kind of... um that sense of agency that you have over it, if you're your choosing to let something go but you've that you or society has kind of put in your position and in in in the first place but you're the one that's choosing to let it go, that's a that's a real nice way of looking at it. We've we've mentioned the um some of the social challenges um and and you know there are practical ones too, what would you say
00:12:46
Speaker
for those first, let's call it the first year of being vegan. Like, can you remember what the what the biggest challenges might have been for you at that time? Yeah, certainly just being hassled at the dinner table and social settings. It's rather unpleasant, especially when you're the only one people know it, or everyone sitting at the table knows it. And then You do get comments and questions and often ah the exact same question at different setting at a different time. So it gets rather frustrating having to answer them in a polite, respectful way every time. But obviously it's important to do so because if you ever want anyone to pay attention to what you're doing then.
Evolving Ethical Stance on Veganism
00:13:23
Speaker
if we come across attacking or condescending, then it's not going to sit well with them. I mean, what are the questions? I'd be interested to see if they go cross-cultural, cross-continental, if they're the same objections or questions. Yeah, absolutely. One memory really sticks out. It was with my family and family friends and the guy, another guy who was there, was kind of making some jeering comments about, oh, you know, we kill our animals, no worries, and we eat meat, and why aren't you eating it?
00:13:52
Speaker
he was kind of doing the direct talking to me and it was kind of unpleasant, but also, you know, everyone sitting there was just letting it happen. And then my dad was actually kind of going like, oh yeah, yeah, you know, like, why are you doing that? And I was thinking, oh, this isn't cool. you My dad's supposed to support me and he's supposed to know, but he's supposed to tell me what I should be eating. But here I am going against that for reasons like the animals and my health and all that. And yeah, I'll never forget that it was,
00:14:20
Speaker
not so nice but dad has since come round a long way and he's definitely a lot more on board with eating plant food because his health can be better from as well like most people's can. Yeah that I mean that that sounds really tough and it's um I think the further down the the journey we we travel with with our veganism like things like that can sometimes just feel like a distant memory and and the kind of immediacy and and pain and difficulty of it can can fade which is which is good you know just as well but yeah gosh i'm really
00:14:54
Speaker
I really felt that when you were describing that that social encounter. did Did you have your own ah doubts or worries or bits of skepticism with with being fully vegan compared to vegetarianism? or I wanted to figure it out and B12 was certainly one of those contentious ones that I wasn't quite sure about. Like I said, I would love to have had someone to kind of guide me through the hurdles, but that's what I saw them as, two hurdles. And I thought, OK, if other people have been doing it,
00:15:23
Speaker
for a period of years or decades, then there's no reason I can't do it. And it was really good to navigate it myself and figure out these things and go, OK, this is cool. when It can be done, I can be healthy, I can sustain it, and soon after, I can't remember exactly when, but I started getting regular annual blood tests, and that is proof, and I put it out to the world on YouTube, Facebook, and various other social media platforms to show and just provide accurate results that people can see and go, okay, this is a normal person that I know, he's healthy, everything's well almost everything's in the perfect range,
00:16:03
Speaker
ah Yeah, it can be done. I'm hearing that the the kind of the lack of accompaniment, if you like, is it's like a real was a real challenge, but I guess perhaps a flip side of that is that if you have got through that by yourself, that there can almost be a greater degree of self-assuredness that actually it's the right thing to do, whereas I don't know if you're if you're surrounded by other people who are doing it too and saying, yeah, yeah, you know, this is this is a good thing to do, Josh. Like in the short term, you can feel like really supported and it's it's great. But actually, ah if those people cease to be there or or whatever, then you kind of do need your own reasons and your own kind of justification and an understanding that it's OK, don't you, I think? Yeah, certainly. And I reckon the ethical connection is so important, which I'm sure you're well aware of watching things like Earthlings, Dominion. I don't want to watch them for sure. I mean, I know most of what's going to be on there. It's rather unpleasant. But I also like to flip it and put myself in the position of the animal. And I think if more people did that, then it'd be a greater sense of compassion and awareness that
00:17:12
Speaker
would be better for humanity if you can look at it like okay you know you know exactly what's going on but if you were in the position of the animal you'd want everyone advocating for your your strife your current situation being pushed along the slaughterhouse line. It's rather insane. Yeah, absolutely.
Advice for New Vegans
00:17:30
Speaker
I'm interested, Josh, like the the the ethical stance that you describe, how has that evolved for you over your time being vegan? Initially, it was me absolutely doing it for the animals and the health aspect and the environment has kind of come into it as an important factor too, but I always say, yeah, I'm vegan for the animals and
00:17:50
Speaker
I've actually got my shirt on at the moment. Yeah. I'd say it's vegan for the animals and various other things. But yeah, number one is for the animals because like I said, I consider myself an animal lover and I feel it is a natural human action to help animals in need rather than be a heartless killer and just go in.
00:18:10
Speaker
perhaps let an animal stroke because just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. And I think that's a nice thing to apply to many things in life where we can do a whole lot better. Yeah, absolutely. but the For your first, like I'm i'm focusing quite a lot on the on the start of your your vegan journey, um just because, you know, people listening who are in this in that position now, like I think it can be talking about accompaniment in the pros and cons of having it if people can hear.
00:18:37
Speaker
um how other people have navigated that particularly difficult start, it it could help them. Like, would you have any tips to share that but really helped you? or Or perhaps, you know, if you've been able to see other people um navigating those first few months and years of being vegan and and seeing things that have particularly helped them, were there are there any nuggets of advice that you could you could share? I would definitely suggest just spending time around other vegans, whether it be potluck, shared dinners,
00:19:05
Speaker
or even just attending activism events like you don't have to actually go and speak but just witnessing the interactions because a lot of people think that it's hostile and people are very resistant to change but I mean I do it frequently and most people are very receptive and usually most people aren't even aware so awareness is the first piece then usually aligning their beliefs with their actions and their purchases and then certainly just spending more time around people that eat like you or will eat like you then it's definitely helpful and conducive to sticking at it long term for sure and what about things to avoid because I mean some it's a well and good saying oh you should definitely do this you definitely do this but there there are traps that we all fall into um like if if you could rewind a little bit are there any things you would avoid doing
00:19:58
Speaker
Not really, to be honest, because I'd got quite into the health aspect side of things as well, you know, and combine the two. And certainly when you combine the two, it works really good. Because if you're eating a lot of whole foods and avoiding the substitute meats, mock meats and stuff like that, then you'll feel good as well. And if you're feeling good, you've also got the ethical connection made, then it's a winning combo where you feel good and you also feel good about what you're doing. Because if you're eating Oreos and other vegan junk food, coconut ice cream, all these other things. like Sure, there's vegan replacements for everything, but yeah they're definitely not healthy, all these other things.
00:20:37
Speaker
Certainly just staying away from most of the vegan junk food if you can, eating plenty of fruit and whole foods, you'll feel good and keep doing it
The Evolving Landscape of Veganism
00:20:45
Speaker
hopefully. Yeah, absolutely. I'm wondering, it sounds like your your sort of journey to all of this started, you know, um in some shape or form around 10 years ago. i'm I'm wondering if for for some you know i'm not not quite sure how this parallel universe has come into being but like let's say um that journey started now or started you know just just a couple of months ago
00:21:11
Speaker
In the context of 2024 or 2025, are there things that you think would would make things easier or possibly even harder to to go through a a vegetarian and vegan transition nowadays compared with 10 years ago? I would say absolutely so much easier. It's so much more well known what being vegan is. Usually people know somebody, a friend or a family member that is vegan.
00:21:37
Speaker
or at least vegetarian and knows a little about it, knows what they do, what they do and don't eat. And certainly we spoke of the vegan junk food, like there are some more substitutes and alternatives in conventional supermarkets now. So it's never been easier to do so. And certainly just with the awareness and people speaking about it, I feel it's a lot easier to jump on board and also not be kind of an outcast in the family or the black sheep.
00:22:07
Speaker
the only one doing it, you can actually feel like you can do it and not be judged or made comments about too often, which is definitely helpful. Has anything surprised you about the the whole process and and being vegan that you perhaps wouldn't have, I don't know, anticipated at the outset? Surprised definitely in that I wanted the world to change a whole lot sooner than I thought that the world would have gone vegan much, much quicker. I realised though that humans are very, very complex creatures and we have lots of conditioning to unral uncover, unrevo uncover, uncover. Yeah, certainly. I think it's very easy. To me, I applied it relatively quickly. I've stuck to it for a decade, so it can be done.
Achievements as a Vegan Athlete
00:22:50
Speaker
And I know people kind of have various other things that they see as roadblocks to doing so. But yeah, certainly, like I said, if you can be around people that are doing it or have done it long term, then that is definitely helpful to
00:23:04
Speaker
jumping on board and keeping it going absolutely right i've got two more questions for you josh first one we know that lots of our listeners will take these going vegan episodes and they will share them with friends and family members who are maybe considering veganism or have dabbled in plant-based eating and and what have you to those people who are listening What advice would you give them? Try it. There's no harm in trying it. It's very easy to do. It's very enjoyable if you're eating well. If you have some doubts, then certainly try. I say that to people in the street too. You can come along and tell me in two months time, if you hated it that much, that you've got every reason to to do so. But I don't think that they'll be one of those people that do so because usually there's written resistance initially. And when you overcome that, apply it, do it for a decent period of time.
00:23:59
Speaker
chances are you're going to feel good. So certainly, yeah, give it a go. Absolutely. What's the harm it could do? and What's the harm? Yeah. And just just final question, Josh, like we've we've talked a lot about like your journey, your like initial stages of vegetarianism and veganism. But you know, that's That's a few years ago now. like Can you tell us a little bit about your life now with with regards to ah veganism and and sort of the role it plays in your life and and sort of how it features in in different ways to to whatever degree of detail you want to? like you can You can give us broad brush strokes or go into lots of details. It's ah up completely up to you. Yeah, one of my proudest moments was very much involved with being vegan. I did an ultramarathon in 2021. It was a 100 miler ultramarathon. So that's 160 k's plus on your feet. Started at 4 a.m. in the morning, ran through the night, ran through the day, into the second night and finished it just after 4 a.m. the following morning. So 24 hours and 35 minutes it took.
00:25:05
Speaker
But we had a plan too for me to get my sign and I'd made up this sign that my friends gave to me just before I was about to come through the finishing shoot. And it was a sign that said 100 mile ultra as a vegan. Why eat animals? Amazing. Oh, I love it. Josh, goodness me. We could talk for many hours now about ultra marathons and veganism. i've not I've not ran quite that far. but i've I have tried a couple of times but yeah oh that's incredible and yeah tell tell tell us more about veganism and running just for my benefit. Yeah I love it it's a very natural thing to do and certainly doing ultra marathons is a good way to prove that we can get adequate protein or the other vitamins and nutrients that people know that we need and certainly plants can fuel us to do this no worries and I've done various other physical features which I'm very proud of that
00:25:56
Speaker
most people look at and go, Oh, that's a little bit crazy. But doing so wearing what I'm wearing right now is vegan messaging, vegan kits and stuff like that. So that the message is loud and proud for all to see. And at least if they don't say anything about it in the moment, they might just get the impression that, Oh, okay. This guy's actually doing all right at it. He's happy. He's smiling. He's going well. And he's not at the back of the pack.
00:26:23
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh, that's incredible. do Do you have vegan runners as in the Running Club in in New Zealand or not? There is a small groove. It's not anywhere near what you have in the yeah UK. I would love for it to be the case. Unfortunately, many of the vegans in my town, they like not so good food or junk food more so. and Very much a food orientated group over here as opposed to being right into fitness. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Horses for courses, isn't it? Excellent stuff. Josh, it's been really, really lovely talking to you and and hearing about your vegan journey.
Conclusion and Credits
00:26:58
Speaker
And yeah, thanks for thanks for giving us a a Southern Hemisphere ah insight to so this journey as well. It's been brilliant. Thank you very much. No worries at all. Thanks for having me.
00:27:11
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:27:52
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic, there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from