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Savageland (2015)
46 Plays20 days ago
Doug and Tony dive head first into the undersung found footage/mockumentary from 2015, Savageland! Is its still photograph conceit effective at delivering scares? Has the world always been this fucked up and racist? All this and more covered in the episode!!
Savageland, like all the best found footage films, is streaming for free on Tubi!
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Transcript
Introduction to Savage Land
00:00:20
Speaker
I have some fucking juice. Okay, we're all here. But yeah, we we made it. We survived. We survived Savage Land and all I got with was the silly t-shirt and this picture. of What a fucking crazy picture too. ah So we're here talking Savage Land, the 2015 found footage movie.
00:00:40
Speaker
ah Three directors directed by Phil ah Gudry, Simon Herbert, and David Whalen. I've never seen anything by these guys, but I feel like I want to start shouting out who the filmmakers are, especially for like, you know, smaller films like this, where it's like, no, like these guys deserve props because they did something really special.
Appreciation for Found Footage Genre
00:01:01
Speaker
And by the time this is out, everyone have heard our talk on butterfly kisses, where I kind of go over my relationship to found footage of how it's kind of within the more recent years I've come to truly appreciate the genre. But
00:01:15
Speaker
I love it. And like when something's done really well, like a Lake Mungo or Ghostwatch, stuff like that, like it shoots the top of just like my favorite horror movies or just my favorite movies in general. And I would have to take a look at my ranking, but I just got to say for the jump, Savage Land is going to be up. It's not like number one, number one, but like it's...
00:01:42
Speaker
It's a kind of just took me so by surprise that i I'm really, really impressed by this movie. ah Impressive is the key word. You're absolutely getting the nail on the head there, right? Because while this seems like it's like made with the budget of, you know, a couple of chopsticks and maybe some duct tape, right?
00:02:04
Speaker
It somehow manages to piece together like a really, really, lived in ah portrayal of not just like a horrific event, but just like American society in
Social Commentary in Savage Land
00:02:16
Speaker
2015.
00:02:16
Speaker
Um, it like one thing that we talked a lot about on the butterfly kisses episode was about how, uh, the consideration of how something is captured is just as important as the actual scares in, uh, any good found footage horror film.
00:02:32
Speaker
And this one, ah couldn't make that point even more clear because it takes something ah like what Lake Mungo did in the clear documentary ah style and just pushes it into a different realm, a different level of authenticity. And authenticity is not just brought upon ah how the horror is captured, but also in how they choose to ah present it.
00:02:55
Speaker
And there was one film I just kept on thinking about while watching this again, which was... ah Night of Living Dead, the original ah George Romero film. And I feel like this film is equally as incendiary as any Romero film ever was.
00:03:08
Speaker
I mean, it's, you know, not every zombie movie is political, but I feel like it's intrinsically tied to the genre because that's like where it started.
Political Context and Themes
00:03:19
Speaker
Like his movies are very...
00:03:21
Speaker
politically minded and all others yeah it's kind it's kind of baked into it even if you're trying you're saying like oh i made a zombie movie it's size it's not about politics or something it's like yeah's there's probably politics in it somewhere you just didn't realize it but they this is fully intentioned here and kind of i mean these you you said like of portraying the world as it was in 2015.
00:03:46
Speaker
It just reminded me of like, wow, so that's we were already at this point then. But I guess contextually, i mean, Trump's campaign started like in 2015. So it's like there was already that xenophobia and hate to to for him to capital. You know, he just came at the right time to cash in on all that. And this this movie is it's not about Trump, but it's about hate and how that can blind people.
00:04:12
Speaker
of the whole community to something that's like right in front of the of like so plainly obvious of like, OK, yes, you're dealing with something unnatural that would never occur in the real world. So that's not going to be someone's first assumption. But like if the evidence is right there, there's literally pictures of it and and people still can't deal with that or they don't want to. they It's just easier to find the a boogeyman that they know and are familiar with. Well, just to kind of give like a broad strokes, like outline, just to get to that point deeper,
Plot Overview and Prejudice Themes
00:04:45
Speaker
right? Like most of what this film is, is just how like a small ah border town in Arizona decided to peg like this grisly zombie massacre on one immigrant, one dude, right? yeah And as we're watching it, the major conflict is how preposterous that idea is, right?
00:05:06
Speaker
But it speaks to ah the simple... ah villain and ra revenge ah motives that a lot of like hard conservative slash like ah corrupt ah border town police officers kind of all inhabit, right? Where ah rather than look for, ah you know, logic, they look for targets, right? They look for easy to control narratives, right?
00:05:30
Speaker
And it's easier for them to conceptualize one evil Mexican versus like a horde of flesh eating zombies. Yeah. And like, obviously, you know, like he I don't want anyone to say the word zombie in this movie. And frankly, they don't, you know, but the the way that there is this, you know, struggle between the truth yeah and how they decide to paper the truth.
00:05:52
Speaker
That's what makes this just a cut above from a lot of the regular found footage stuff. Yeah. ah And i I'll just say like going forward. Yeah. Full spoilers for for Savage Land. It's on Tubi.
00:06:05
Speaker
ah go watch. It's on YouTube. It's also on YouTube. Like it's very easy to find in its entirety for for free. Yeah. um I feel like found footage is the one genre, like most movies, I'm like, yeah, watch it on as big a screen as you have. But found footage feel like works on a phone or like should your quality is almost better for it because you're like it adds to the feeling of like...
00:06:29
Speaker
No, yeah, this would just be a documentary I stumbled upon about like this horrific thing. And it does have that feel of a... It captures the way ah those movies are made and the kind of interviews they do while also still feeling real to the characters of that world. ah But i I want to...
00:06:50
Speaker
to uh bring up a thing about the the zombies itself like you said no one says zombies there's some pictures that like i've i because i went back and looked through like ah ah so many of the pictures there's almost something that kind of demonic about it like not just like you have like yeah the motion blurs of like there's lot of stuff happening as he's taking these pictures but i I feel like there is an open interpretation of like, did something summon these things? Like, are are are they, is this more targeted and less like random? Because ah the thing I point to ah is, well, straight up, there is just an inverted like cross you see. Like it's like being real reflected on on one of their heads, like in in one of the pictures.
00:07:40
Speaker
And then also it could just be like the blur of the arms. Like they have their arms out, but there's like figures on top of the mountain, like in that first picture when they're all running down the hill.
00:07:53
Speaker
I'm assuming they're kind of running just from like the motion blurs in it, that these are like kind of faster maybe than the normal Yambies that that's kind of the vibe I got, even though we never see them in motion. I feel like the motions just implied through the the images. Well, there's so much to go over in terms of like how the images are captured themselves as well as those details, right? But get I want to get to that, like the the origin of the thread itself, because that's a great way to kind of dig into the rest of the film, right?
00:08:21
Speaker
And i but was what's important is to analyze their geography, right? Because they came from the South, they're going North, right? And that means that textually, right, this is a story about like immigration, right? And illegal immigration, right? And even though the film is rather progressive in its ideology ultimately, right?
00:08:42
Speaker
I find that it is still playing on this trope of a threat coming from Mexico and coming into America, right? And ah what it is trying to do with its commentary is is talking about how perhaps the drug trade, perhaps like human trafficking, while they're real things, they're not the real problem that's happening here, right?
00:09:02
Speaker
And ah the what I do, how I take this message in a more charitable light than it perhaps leading into unfortunate tropes you is I kind of see this as almost like revenge.
00:09:15
Speaker
I see this as like ah something has happened ah based on decades and decades of cruelty, you know, and this is like how America has wrought this upon themselves.
00:09:25
Speaker
um It's like also the first correcting almost of like No, that this is this is something evil and unnatural has been done to these people. But now but then also it gets messy because it's like they're also the victims of this body like this community is yeah made up of a lot of immigrants and Mexicans and like they bear the brunt of this massacre. ah So it's it's like that not even they're safe. And then there's also the line because it like ends on that eerie note of like, you can see that this is happening in other places as it marches north.
00:09:59
Speaker
But see it sounds like they're only specifically ta ah attacking small communities because it's like if they had just been going straight north and hitting everything they saw, it would have been like all over the news. Like everyone would have discovered this by now. Almost like there's an intelligence that's like, no, we're hitting here, here.
00:10:16
Speaker
year here And it seems like they can kind of just appear because they they they make a mention to like there being bloody footprints that just stop. So it's like that they can come and then just vanish on a dime. I think also what's interesting to point out is when they're introducing like I'm saying this when they're introducing like immigrants and Mexicans at the beginning of the film, it takes a very... ah conservative approach.
00:10:39
Speaker
Like you're just talking to conservatives and they're ah ah like the way they perceive Mexicans. Right. And the way that they ah present them at the beginning of the film, they're like, they celebrate death. You know, they, they adorn themselves in the imagery of the, of murder. Right.
00:10:53
Speaker
And there's like a big, like closeup on somebody who's dressed up as a devil. Right. And if we are to take this as a more spiritually ah infused version of the zombie myth, right, ah then it would almost be like ah they have manifested their own fear, right?
00:11:09
Speaker
they the The Mexicans who have come to attack them in Savage Land is the things that they have said coming to roost, right? And then also it's a great point you bring up there about how a lot of like Mexican families live in this town, right?
00:11:21
Speaker
ah Because they even say in the film that there's only one obituary written in the entire thing. And it's because of the one white guy, right? Who's the hunter. It's really interesting how that one person was enough alone for the American, for for the conservative like government in the area to laud all this on another Mexican, right?
00:11:43
Speaker
somebody who was a victim of this, someone who clearly had bite marks on him. Right. And that's also another thing too, is that seemingly so he'd been bitten. He hasn't been termed. right Right. Like are the rules that like in this way, ah regardless of ah if it's magic or supernatural, ah like supernatural in that way ah that you have to die first to turn. Cause like he, after he's executed, then they find his body missing and he's like,
00:12:09
Speaker
it right It seems like he's attacking those campers at at the end. So it it it's like he's he's already been marked and he will, you know, turn. But it that doesn't have it's not like on a timetable. It's just waits until the body's dead. It's a walking dead scenario or like a more elongated walking dead scenario. Like you still need it maybe like but yeah, it's still a you then you have to die. Yeah, there's just more steps. hmm.
00:12:33
Speaker
And getting back to what you're bringing up about like the way that these pictures are captured. Right. And how there is often these like blurred, you know, it's very deep motion is implied. Right. I love the fact that ah the setup to Salazar as a character is that he is an amateur photographer because it does feel as though he doesn't have all of his settings right. Right. Or if he has taken his camera out, he's left it on auto or something, right? Because to me, when I look at those images, I imagine that like he's left it on auto, right?
00:13:03
Speaker
It seems like it's a digital camera. um And it's the camera itself is struggling to dial into the right shutter speed in which to capture these pictures. And even though there's a flash on it, he's barely using it, right? And when he does use it, you're able to see a bit more motion, but we'll get to that.
00:13:19
Speaker
but But I just like the fact that in these pictures themselves, ah they feel so lived in. It does feel like somebody who has a camera, who is in the middle of these action set pieces, who needs to capture these things. And it never cheats.
00:13:31
Speaker
We never see like some random clip of something that somebody else caught. We only get these pictures. And because of his own inadequacies as a photographer, as well as ah the confusion surrounding the event itself, all of these things come together to create a lot of uncertainty, ah at least within the people I think as an audience, we are watching this and we were going, oh, yeah, so fucked up shit's
Character Focus: Salazar and Visual Storytelling
00:13:52
Speaker
going down. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't leave any ambiguity to like who are, you know, like the the the things that are responsible for this massacre. But it leaves a lot of room for interpretation of like we're even like we're debating the nature of the zombies themselves. And and so I think there's.
00:14:10
Speaker
that The kind of messiness of the pictures and and they give character, you know, in terms of like what he was going through at those moments, because he's ah he's like a silent, yeah you know, person, like, in that which doesn't help his defense of like he just becomes catatonic. The most we hear him talking is that he's evaluated by a psychologist after they pick him up.
00:14:32
Speaker
And the psychologist's assessment is like he seems sane, you know, not that it is a clinical way. I think there's a gradient between they're like, oh, this guy, I gave him the crazy stamp. But she's saying like, no, she she doesn't see anything to indicate that kind of so psychosis or that he's like...
00:14:51
Speaker
Someone who would be capable of doing the things that they're laying on him, you know, massacring a whole town single-handedly. The way that the cops talk about him, right, where they're like, he was a well-trained assassin, you know, who was like running through the town causing havoc, right? Super soldier.
00:15:07
Speaker
ah it's It's so awesome, right? Because, like, you know, maybe in 2015, you know, if you're watching this movie and you're going like, okay, these guys are, like, maybe going a bit too far in their characterizations of Mexicans, they don't they wouldn't be that way in real life, would they? will It's like, all you really do is...
00:15:24
Speaker
All you need to do is turn on the TV and see, right? ah But well one thing I wanted to say about ah Salazar being silent, right, is um I'd be fucking silent too if my fucking defense attorney was Rob Walker.
00:15:35
Speaker
I want nothing to do with that guy. You know, he's not getting my ass out there. I know I'm fucked, you know? like is Is that the the actor, Rob Walker, is is his... ah No, no, no, no, no. no I know I was literally just saying that he looks a lot like Doug Walker's brother. Okay.
00:15:50
Speaker
i love being not not online enough. Like, I know Doug Walker, but I don't know what it right his brother looks like, so he looks like that. And the attorney himself is not the best either, because he's just like, ah he's not going to use the photograph. Like, the photographs aren't even allowed as evidence and in his trial, which goes to show, like, the whole miscarriage of justice it is. that It's like, okay, you might as well just lynch him on a tree. Like, like it's like, we don't even, dude, why have a trial if we're not going even, like, look at the actual evidence?
00:16:20
Speaker
It's like... Because none of it... The only thing that, like, is it damning to him is that there's blood on him from the first one he encounters. Like, someone... Some kid was attacked, comes into his his house, lays down on the bed, dies, then gets reanimated, and then he kills the, you know, the zombie of the kid.
00:16:40
Speaker
And so he has blood on him from that. But... And maybe some other deaths that he was near, some blood could have gotten on him. But, like, that that's, like... So there's so many incation indications that he's a victim, not the perpetrator.
00:16:53
Speaker
Oh, for sure. And to go back to what you were saying about lynching, right? Like some of the townspeople in this film literally called for his lynching in this movie. They're like, let's hang him up one time and it will send an example to the rest of them. And it's like...
00:17:06
Speaker
The fact that this movie is just like blatantly talking about white supremacy in that way, I've never seen a found footage film do that. Like that makes this one already a cut of above in that sense. Right.
Justice System Critique
00:17:15
Speaker
And then when it comes to like ah there's the defense attorney, they go out of their way to say like, oh, this is like his third case ever.
00:17:22
Speaker
And all of the much ado about the tapes themselves, he's going like, if I were to submit this, I would never be taken seriously again. Like it would destroy my career. So he's far more self-interested than he is in trying to help Salazar, right?
00:17:36
Speaker
Like any any any human looking at this, right? And it's partially because of the way that the film is presenting this info to us. And obviously we can get into why that works later on.
00:17:46
Speaker
But it's like, it's very clear to anyone who's looking at this case that like Salazar is innocent. Right. And the only thing that's keeping him behind bars and ultimately what kills him is just the racist whims of the state trying to find an easy scapegoat and trying to snuff out any questions that anyone may have. And it does seem like there was an intentional like whether they futzed with evidence after the fact to, like, make it somewhat fit their narrative. Because there there was, there's, like, an investigative journalist that we keep going back to ah who... The best character. Yeah, who ends up, like, writing a but a book on it. Like, he's the he's kind of, like, the audience surrogate in the... Well, I guess there's kind of two audience surrogates, ah but but he is...
00:18:31
Speaker
ah speaking the perspective of calling out the white supremacy at play and in the racism of it all. But he makes a note of like there was like one officer who was the first on the scene or something before anyone else got to see him. then he ends up getting promoted weirdly or you're like, oh, so were they planting evidence or like moving things around ah just so they could better frame Salazar for this?
00:18:53
Speaker
but Well, even when he gets the tapes, right? The tapes came from, like, some anonymous source. And then after the tapes are sent in the mail, the guy ah mysteriously gets into a car accident, right? Like, clearly the cops are aware of the tapes and they know that they exist. And one of her... a them about a real is are Yeah,
00:19:12
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, because it gets in the way of the evil Mexican narrative. like Because we see 36 pictures from one role, but it it they allude to like there could be more whether he lost them or the cops just prevented them from reaching us, you know, like whatever happened to the other photos because he likely would have just kept shooting if he had more film. I love the guy that they have who's brought in to be like a photographer analysis, right? Like, again, new but the war photo distinct. Yeah, I love that guy. Yeah, the war photo.
00:19:42
Speaker
He's great, right? and Because he get what I love about this and just what you can do with found footage is you're bringing these perspectives of people who have relevant information, right? And the way that they talk about the craft of photography is very sound, right? Like, I'm an amateur photographer myself, right?
00:19:59
Speaker
And a lot of the language he uses, a lot of the way that he talks about photographers, right? it reads very true to me. Like when he's talking about, you know, how ah in a traumatic event, you've got a camera in your face and you feel invincible, right?
00:20:11
Speaker
I think that that's very true. I think every person who's ever taken a picture knows what that means, right? And it also goes that extra step in terms of, um you know, there's the question of why would somebody be recording this? You know, why would somebody be taking these pictures?
00:20:25
Speaker
And because we're just getting these still images and we're getting this ah backing up from a photographer, it sells the reality of the world much more than like, A teenager holding a camcorder running through, you know, their school as is being haunted by a slasher.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, right. Because you're like, it's his duty to take these pictures. Like, that's basically the perspective of the photojournalist. And like, we're meant to agree with him. And like, yeah, I do agree. It's like... Someone needed to document this. If he's going to be the sole survivor, you we need more than just his word in description of it. And what better way to describe it than to just show us?
00:20:59
Speaker
ah But I love how that's a point of critique, too, because like the sheriff is like, ah well, even if the pictures are real, how come he didn't put his camera down and help? And it's like, well, he did try and help. It didn't work out well, but he does try at one point. the the That scene is so nuts.
00:21:15
Speaker
You know, you're talking about the scene where he goes to school and he sees the little girl and and he ah he is attempting to soothe her, essentially, before she gets taken out by these zombies. He starts thinking Edward, but it seems like at first he is trying to, like, stall them or, like...
00:21:33
Speaker
stun them with with his flash. Like that he's like, oh, can I just give her time to get away or or save her by just like if I keep shooting and it it does it. It's just like the moment of the flash is is like, yeah, they've like stopped for a moment, but it's not actually doing anything. And and I love the bit that ah the photographer brings up, and it was something that was a present theme through a butterfly kisses as well, right? Where it's like when you are ah documenting something, right, there is a line that can be crossed where you then are a participant in an event rather than just an observer, right?
00:22:07
Speaker
And there is a responsibility from a filmmaker or a photographer where if they are in that position of an observer, right? When you do breach over into, you know, active participant, that does change things, right? Like he says, he's not a photographer anymore.
00:22:21
Speaker
And you could to make the argument that he never really was a photographer in this current moment. He was a photographer beforehand, of course. I'm just saying that um there ah from the perspective of somebody capturing this event and the moment when somebody does break free from just being an observer to an actual participant.
00:22:40
Speaker
It speaks to the kind of struggle between the two ideologies, right? Like to capture an event, to shoot it, ah video or picture, right? Like what is your moral stay facility? and but But the fact yeah is he doesn't really have a choice because he's a participant from the start, you know, like but even before he tries to save the girl, it's like...
00:23:01
Speaker
This is massacres effect. I mean, he has bite marks. Like, he's like, what could have easily been killed? Like, he's part of it. So, it it he kind of just, with the set of shitty options he has, kind of feel like, yeah, documenting it at least, like, because even if you die, then you're like, okay, well, maybe these pitchers can still get out. Like, because...
00:23:21
Speaker
Like, yeah, he has that feeling invincibility when the cameras are from him. But if any moment he has to stop and think about you're probably not assuming you're going to get out of this alive. Like, because you're like, well, literally everyone else around me is dying. So I don't know. I don't know what my odds are, but I'm just going to keep taking pictures because that's might be the only way people know what happened here.
00:23:41
Speaker
And I love the fact that he doesn't use the flash until the little girl in the school, right? He has that flash on his camera the entire time, but he doesn't use it because he's so scared. Right. And as we've talked about already, right? Like he's probably not futzing with the the settings on his camera all too much. Right.
00:23:57
Speaker
He's not thinking about turning on the flash at this point. He's just thinking about, Holy shit. There's a zombie like eating somebody through a window done. Right. Like that's most of the and shots in this film.
00:24:08
Speaker
And, uh, But I like the fact that it just feels that way. It feels like very of the moment. And there's a lot of interpretation you can make into each image. And the the the strength of this film is that there are these 36 images and they kind of blow through them really quickly.
00:24:24
Speaker
You know, like, I feel like they they they only linger on so a few of them more than the others. But for the rest of them, you you're going through them. and And there's a confidence in that, I feel, because the filmmakers, the people who directed this film, they had to go and make these pictures. Right. Right. And each one of them looks phenomenal.
00:24:41
Speaker
Right. But the fact that they're able to just blow through them like that speaks to the confidence, like I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. And to just know specifically, you only have 36. So you kind of have to be one. It has to make sense for the character that these are pictures he could have taken. But you also need to convey what you need to convey.
00:24:58
Speaker
But then you also have the other people being interviewed who can fill in the gaps from like ah connect the dots of how one picture leads to then another. Because then i I alluded to there being two audience
Realism and Societal Critique
00:25:11
Speaker
surrogates. I think the the Border Patrol guy who's kind of like, yeah, he's. really the only one. Well, a photojournalist seems to genuinely believe what's captured in in in the photos, but he's the main one who's like taking it, the actual zombie threat seriously. Cause even the investigative journalist is like, ah he, he seemed, it's just the police there are that are like something like some kind of Tulsa like thing happened to your, like clan came in, healed everyone.
00:25:40
Speaker
Now they're blaming him as a patsy, but like the, the border patrol guy, who I like that it's not racist. well like with like When they introduce a Border Patrol guy, I'm like, oh, another racist guy who like There's only so many racists in this movie.
00:25:54
Speaker
and But he's like, no, i this guy seems innocent. Because he's already seen weird stuff on the border when it's like... Yes, people do die on the route to crossing because it's like dehydration or or or whatever of the elements or maybe just the cartel or something got them. But he's found other shit that looks like someone like people being eaten, you know, that's like i doesn't look like an animal did they these things like that. He's found remains of of some kind of.
00:26:24
Speaker
previous activity so he's already primed to believe once he sees photos it's almost like confirming what he may be says because you're not just gonna you find some weird body parts you're like yeah zombies for sure but then see if you see it then you experience that and then you see the pictures you're like well this is what i was i was uh on on the tail of before like this is the shit yeah and And what I like about that character, too, is like you were talking about, oh, no, he's a racist white guy. Right.
00:26:52
Speaker
But but it goes out of its way to say that he's like a second generation Mexican. Right. Who is in America now. Right. So there is also like racial ah ties to. these people who are coming over the border, right? Like his parents probably did the same thing, right?
00:27:06
Speaker
So for him, he's already in a position where he is humanizing these people more than others in this location, right? And this this question of a supernatural threat that's being persistent throughout the years, right?
00:27:18
Speaker
It's whatever ego story we want should have, right? This idea that it's something that, you know, has always existed. And whether it be by cover up or just by people not being willing to confront the reality of fears, the fact that it's something that's been persistent and bubbling up until it boils over into this kind of moment, you know, all great horror stories have this kind of approach in my books.
00:27:39
Speaker
And then also, just to speak to the journalist guy, like you were saying, I really like that he is speaking the truth the entire time, but then he has to make those concessions right at the end of the film, right? You have him saying all these things, and pretty much everybody does this, right? Where you have all these people who are willing to stand up for Salazar's stories, but then they have to draw the line somewhere because they're afraid of what affects their bottom line, right? And that's how it... They don't look crazy. I think it's not just like self... preservation of like, I'm going to lose credibility if I start saying zombies, but then also the human reluctance to something that horrifying. You just don't want to believe it.
00:28:24
Speaker
It's easier to believe for him that the clan did this because that's a known evil. You know, that it's like for sure that says something I know about. And there's, you know, documented precedent for that. I don't know.
00:28:35
Speaker
what that is in the picture. So you just have, even though there's physical evidence of it, you just, they end up dismissing it. Well, I think that like what you're saying right there about empty, it's the clan. I think that that's still like the the commentary, right? Like the commentary is, is that like in the real world, right? Like most people would just be like, this is crazy, you know, like I don't really know what to say about this, right? And then they won't talk about the real issues and it would be the clan.
00:29:02
Speaker
clan no Yeah. And that's where, or or something, or a similar, you know, group like that, right? um And the that's what makes this horror film work as metaphor in the same way that the Romero original zombie films were, right?
00:29:16
Speaker
Is that, you know, we're saying zombies, we're saying this threat like this, right? But like in reality, right, like... All of these things ah you know are constantly scapegoated onto the Mexican community, especially in these border towns, right?
00:29:30
Speaker
Where they're often painted out to be more aggressive than they actually are, when they're really just families trying to make a ah better living for themselves, right? And this idea of you know the savage land, what the namesake of the film is, right?
00:29:44
Speaker
This idea that they are dishumanizing them to this great degree, right? and how it gets to the point where even when their humanity is robbed, they still have to be lied about in this way for these racist people to even conceptualize what happened.
00:29:58
Speaker
Right. And then ah for ah Salazar, it's like things that would normally be innocent are now recontextualized in a sinister because they're using their like, well, if there's precedent for him being weird. You know, there's like there was controversy when he took pictures of the little girl of of the preachers.
00:30:16
Speaker
uh daughter which is like yes any adult who's spending uh time to seem be seeing the seemingly like singling out like a little kid could be cause for concern but i never i there seems to be the suggested salazar is maybe like on the spectrum a little bit that like you know the pictures are kind of like his way connecting to people the there's nothing sexual about the pictures he's taking of her. It's like they're, they're really well thoughtful, composed, like the warfords like, yeah, these are great pictures. Like it's like, he's capturing the subject like really well.
00:30:53
Speaker
ah But there's nothing. It's like, if you see those pictures and your first thought are, yeah, this is sexual. This guy's a purr. I'm like, okay, what are you bringing to this? That's like what, where are your minds going? Cause that's not the vibe of those photos at all.
00:31:08
Speaker
Well, I think it's interesting to bring up in the term of the, you know, like the photojournalist who oftentimes is talking about like the theory behind his photography. Again, just like where where are you seeing this in other found footage films, right? Like this guy's talking about what it means for him to take these pictures of like roadkill and stuff, right? And there is a, ah you know, juxtaposition where the majority of his photography is based around like dead things on the side of the road, right? And that's a reflection of where he lives, this border town, where Mexicans are coming in and then they're getting gunned down by Border Patrol, you know?
00:31:44
Speaker
And ah then when he's taking these pictures of this little girl, you know, hey, it's like, it seems like all these pictures are from the same photo shoot where it's just like... on the front steps to her house, right? Right. It just seems like he took pictures of her outside, right? And that was it. He had some good lighting and he got some decent pictures of her in front of her house. Like, because because he also, he did work for the, you know, like he did contractor work around the the place, but he also liked...
00:32:10
Speaker
worked for that family. So it's like, it's not like he's like made a secret date with her and then like, if I know, yeah, like sneak these pictures, like, no, they, for their parents were probably there and me or or something. were like, oh, okay, it's just Salazar taking pictures, you know, like, I don't know why, would why would you assume that that's bad? I think, but when we bring in the the film theory into that again, right, where it's like those images are so full of life and optimistic, right, and that's interpreted as that, you know, as more sinister from the less charitable, right?
00:32:42
Speaker
Instead, it reflects like how he does see the humanity in these people, right? Salazar is a deeply empathetic person, right? And there's a reason why he tries to stop at all these places before he tries to escape, right?
00:32:55
Speaker
He does try to save people before it's too late, right? And ah that's that's what makes it. That's what colors that whole thing as more tragic in my eyes. Right. Like this, ah you know, he had a genuine connection with his family.
00:33:07
Speaker
And then also furthermore on that. Right. Like there's the implication that the preacher had to kill the rest of the family because they turn. Right. And, you know, i i i wasn't even sure if they had turned when they kill because it because it just he he.
00:33:22
Speaker
cut up or killed you know like his wife and other kid but i'm like did one of them only make did both of them get turned or that was one of them maybe like his wife was was turned he kills her and then does he i kind of almost got the vibe that he killed someone unturned to like kind of like he was trying to like preserve their
Historical Parallels and Systemic Racism
00:33:42
Speaker
purity or something yeah it like this is something that got Because that phone call of when he calls the parish from there is so disturbing.
00:33:50
Speaker
And he's like, Grace, where Grace is gone, you know, his daughter Grace, but then also the double meaning of God's grace. Like there's no, he's not ah here, you know, who like God's not protecting you from from this.
00:34:02
Speaker
And ah there's that distortion at the end when these like, his final words like sound like... otherworldly you know like you could say that like yeah it's just the recording got fussed with or the chaos of it like uh kind of disrupted the call but that again just leads more fuel for me of like yeah this is like some kind of demonic and influence or something and ah And I love that the the other guy who worked at the parish is there, right, doing the interview, right? Because his perspective is empathetic to Salazar.
00:34:35
Speaker
he He recognizes that whatever that priest did, right, he killed his kid, right? And then you get the immediate you could counterbalance with the sheriff going, Salazar killed them, you know? The yeah the entire time, you you you have all these people who even, like...
00:34:54
Speaker
who have any kind of passing familiarity with this town and the dynamics that exist within it, right? They know that there is no way that Salazar could have done this. but And at every point, it's just those those racist cops who are coming in and swooping in.
00:35:06
Speaker
But that's also why I like the the journalist character, because like every time they cut to him, he's just like, They're just a bunch of liars. like you know i It's just always the same. They break down the logistics of like what what a person, one single person would need to do to do all this.
00:35:21
Speaker
And like even going to like that Hunter's wife is like kind of incredulous that it was Salazar too. Because she's like, even if you discredit the pictures, she's like, he's like a really good shot. like that He could take anything down with one shot. And how did this one unarmed guy...
00:35:39
Speaker
who like get the drop on him from all this distance away. Like that he could have taken out Salazar. Salazar was coming at him in a crazy frenzy, like he would have seen that, been able to shoot him easily. It was like, yeah, because he wasn't shooting at Salazar because Salazar wasn't the threat.
00:35:54
Speaker
Well, they they make a big deal about it in the documentary too, where they talk about how like Salazar is only like 5'7 or Like he's a pretty short dude, right? And then like ah they say that like ah the the hunter is over six feet.
00:36:07
Speaker
And then you get the shot ah from Salazar's perspective where he's literally shooting at the people running down the hill. Right. So there's even like contextual evidence where this hunter was actually helping Salazar.
00:36:18
Speaker
Right. ah But it doesn't fit in with the narrative. So it just has to be turned into this ah Antifa super soldier did some Krav Maga and sent him to the shadow realm. You know. Yeah.
00:36:29
Speaker
and And on that note, too, right, ah there's the ah the people in the water tower, right? The concept and that these people are running away from the zombies and want to jump off the water they or survive, right? whos or Or would just rather choose that death of, like, I'll just jump off and fall to my death because I don't want to be, like, eaten alive. And it's like, yeah, one Mexican scared them that much that they were like, I'm going to get away.
00:36:58
Speaker
Everyone, kill yourself right now. right now. And like you're telling me, like again, like the idea that it's just this one dude who's running around, right? Like you got this one dude running up on the ladder, right?
00:37:10
Speaker
You're telling me you're all up on top of that ladder. He's coming up on the ladder, right? You're telling me you can't just kick him down, right? Exactly. Come on. I don't care how well armed he is, right? He's got more legs than him. Right. like Because like even if he had armed himself at that point, like, there's more of you than him. Like, there's just no scenario where that makes sense.
00:37:29
Speaker
But I do like the little, like, like of the world one of the few things Salazar does say of, like, why he stopped at that hunter. Because the hunter didn't seem like someone he had a previous relationship with, unlike the other places he stopped. He was like, because he had a gun. Like, it was like, he already after having to kill one of these things, he's like...
00:37:46
Speaker
gun is safer than no gun. like that that did it Kind of instinctual, like, okay, well, maybe this will be okay then. This guy can take care of it. But no, I mean, one guy one guy with a rifle can take out some of them. But also, if you don't know they're zombies, like, you're maybe not Because I don't hunt, but I assume it's kind of so is it similar to like when you know police or military, they train you to aim for center mass. you know they're like They're not telling you, get headshots. It's not a first-person shooter video game.
00:38:19
Speaker
<unk> like Yeah, headshots. That gives you a higher score, so get the headshot. and If you do it disarm, you get a plus 10 bonus point, yes. Sure. No, i get I get what you're putting there out there. And also it's ah the film does a great job in terms of like laying out the logics behind logistics and logic behind why they take the steps that they do, right? Because it's like first he goes to find a weapon after defending himself. Then he goes to try to find the people he was closest with.
00:38:47
Speaker
And then he tries to find the last one at the school. And that's the last straw. That's what he's all about, self-preservation, right? it's the it's It's very logical, like, What would you do if you were in this scenario? would try to find some sense of security, then you try to find the people that you're close to.
00:39:03
Speaker
And then if you survive profit, you know like that's what ah what ah any zombie scenario is, at least, from somebody who is acting in an instinctual standpoint. Yeah, because that's always like one of the more interesting parts of those ah scenarios of like trying to like game out like, yeah, how I feel like more than any other like kind of horror scenario, like it blends itself most to like real world problem solving of, OK, I mean, zombies aren't real, but what could I do in this in this scenario? Whenever my friends would start doing that. I'd be like, and this was, you know, i live in the suburbs now, but like when I lived in the city, I'm like, there's going to be so many and be fucked. So I i don't know, probably find a way to kill myself. If I knew someone who had a gun, no, I'd just shoot myself because I don't want to like eaten alive, you know, like, I don't know.
00:39:52
Speaker
Well, Well, you're in Chicago, you know, so you've got like the the benefit of like a lot of water, you know. that i feel like if you've got like a decent boat, right, and you just stayed in the canals, right, I think you could probably survive like a couple of months. yeah you know let us Get to the boat first, though. That's going to be hard.
00:40:09
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That's true. You to fend off against a zombified ah ah river taxi person yeah and steal their their vehicle, right? ah But but ah I get what you're getting at there where it's like when when something like this happens, right? Like a mass casualty event on like an ethereal realm, right? that It's so hard to imagine how one could even try to rationalize their decisions in that point.
00:40:34
Speaker
And that's why a lot of the people who die in this movie, they they feel like they're just like... just like kind of like he's running through like a haunted house, right? And they're like the set pieces almost, right? Yeah. Whereas like he's running to a corner and then somebody's being eaten by the thing, right?
00:40:49
Speaker
Everything is devolving in this town so quickly, right? And everyone just got hit so out of nowhere, right? And I think that just in that idea of picturing the chaos that it wrought this town, the film does an excellent job in selling you how it just all devolved so quickly. Yeah.
00:41:07
Speaker
And it sells ah all without like without knowing this film's actual budget. you know, imagine it's pretty small. ah But this would found footage is one of the perfect genres for low budget horror filmmaking, because like the pictures imply so much more ah effectively than like most zombie movies where you see them in motion like i'm more terrified of those things and the implications of the of the photos and it does a good job of making this feel like a wide read you know like it happened to this one community this one border town but it feels like yeah this wasn't like a big case like this is something there would be a netflix documentary about you know like that this is
00:41:46
Speaker
the the the It expands the world in ways that doesn't make it feel small scale, even though they almost certainly had pretty limited resources making this, but it doesn it it doesn't feel cheap.
00:41:58
Speaker
I think the only way that you can make something like this work, and you usually see this with the best found footage films, where they mix the media so well,
Effective Use of Found Footage
00:42:06
Speaker
right? Like you get these pictures, obviously. Then you have the interviews with the people who are relevant to the case. Then you have like archival footage ah from the case as it was happening.
00:42:16
Speaker
You have like political drawings making fun of the situation as well as like ah light reenactments where they do day for night shoot ah photography, right? Right. Like you were saying, it does feel a lot like a Netflix documentary, but perhaps more accurately, it feels like a conspiracy documentary.
00:42:33
Speaker
Like it feels like something you'd watch on YouTube where it's like trying convince you Bigfoot is real, right? But there's more class here because it's real. There's more class because people die, right?
00:42:44
Speaker
And, ah but when it comes to like how it's destructed, but It really does feel on a cheaper end, but not because, you know, the film itself is cheaper, which is the real reason. and It feels cheaper like that because it's talking about a conspiracy. Right, because if you think about the reality of who is making this film that we're seeing right now and interviewing these people...
00:43:03
Speaker
might be someone who's more conspiratorial my minded, like someone who like believes in aliens and all that stuff where they're like, yeah, i because that's they're leaving all that stuff in with the photos and like clearly letting you draw those conclusions. So it's like they believe that that that's what happened.
00:43:20
Speaker
But also like the photos were dismissed. This documentary would also probably be, you know, decried as like, yeah, this is is that's just like. Just like one of those, you know, there's billions of documentaries about people who've been abducted and stuff, or it's something like Bigfoot or some cryptid or something. And this would be, because like the only two authorities we have who like are taking it at face value are the war photo journal, or the war photographer, and then also the border patrol guy. I mean, like you would think maybe racist white people would put some respect on the border patrol guy, but he's also part, he's part Mexican though. Yeah, you'd be like, oh, he's more loyal to his own or something, but something racist like that. But it's like, though, those aren't you don't have like several panel of science, although people don't care what scientists think now anyway. So I was like, who would be the expert?
00:44:12
Speaker
Who would be the expert to verify this? ah It makes it unquestionable, you know, that it would have to be so many authority figures. And even then, people would be like, I don't know, zombies. It sounds crazy. Well, you're getting at something that's very real, right? We do live in a post-truth society, right?
00:44:29
Speaker
Where people ah they care more about their own biases than the truth, right? And they they will more willingly fit their racist or bigoted opinions into whatever scenario just to make it work, right? And and that's kind of what makes this movie a cut above, right? that like this This is what makes this one just...
00:44:48
Speaker
have a bit of commentary, they are not going to find other places, right? Where, you know, in other zombie stories, you know, ah there's the idea of containment and stuff and who's going to believe after that or, you know, what I'm what i'm really trying to get i actually is, ah you know, the idea of zombies themselves is often considered to be a reactionary kind of creature, right? Because the idea is that it's a permission structure that arrests people to imagine what would happen if we were given the permission to kill other people.
00:45:18
Speaker
Right. And there is something fucked up about that just on a, you know, intellectualizing it in that perspective. Right. But this film is looking at it from the other perspective. Right. Where it's like all of these people are killing each other and it's blamed on the one person who was trying to save people. Right.
00:45:33
Speaker
And it's also about like how ah humanity itself ah has this habit of ignoring the true causes. Right. of pain in an effort to keep society going the way as we know it, right?
00:45:47
Speaker
So all of these things are baked into it. And, and ah you know, while Butterfly Kisses is really a fantastic film too, like that's more so about intentionality, right? And this one's a lot more about reality.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah, they, I mean, they make a great double feature because I had to watch these both on the the same day and what ah what a great day that was. But that's, like you said, Butterfly Kisses is about intentionality.
00:46:12
Speaker
And I feel like Savage Lane does continue that conversation slightly of like, what is your duty in terms of like capturing this thing? But then, yeah, it also is just like zooming out in terms of like society as a whole. Like, yeah, this is a small community border town, but they...
00:46:28
Speaker
are meant to represent just America. You know, like this this is the dynamic between America and the how they view Mexico and people from there. and and And it's interesting, you brought up how this is like very proto-Trump and I can really feel that, right? Like they were even talking about building the wall by the end of this film. right Like whatever...
00:46:48
Speaker
Whatever was in the air around that time period, right, this film really captures it and in many ways is actually ahead of the curve. Right. And I think that's partially why it ages so well. Right. Because it shows how, you know, these things, they're persistent, you know.
00:47:03
Speaker
the same things that they were saying 10 years, they're only saying now louder because they've been given that space, right? And it's a matter of how long we allow these people to dominate these narratives.
00:47:14
Speaker
um That's what dictates, ah you know, how how ah the truth can continue to be concealed. Yeah, if we continue to let those people be the loudest voices in the room, it's not like they're going to get it out of their system and be like, OK, I said my piece. I'm going to back home and be quiet. It's like, no, they're just going to keep saying more awful, hateful shit. So it's like that's that's the what, you know, almost the this presages the predicament that we're we're in now. It's like that no one would have stopped to that.
00:47:46
Speaker
they And now it's just. boiled over and it's at a critical mass now, critical mass, but it's going to probably just keep building because it's like, who's goes who's stopping it? They won't stop until, you know, they arrest their family members they get into arguments with at the dinner table, right? Like that's ultimately what their ideology is built around. It's built around spite and ah proving each other right or wrong, not through ah logic or reason in the Ben Shapiro sense, but, you know, through just brute force and forcing people to shut up, listen to what they have to say, no matter how bigoted it is, right?
00:48:22
Speaker
And that's what the police are doing throughout this entire film. And the every resistance to that comes from a place where they're afraid of these institutional powers getting in the way of how they express, right?
00:48:34
Speaker
You know, we talk about how America is rather authoritarian these days. Well, maybe it was pretty authoritarian back in 2015 as well. And people weren't really talking about it back then. I mean, yeah he's all it was that it was just easier to ignore now. It's like people will have this notion, false notion that it's like, yeah, this hate and all these awful things arrived with Trump. But Obama had the reputation as the great deporter. Like he deported so many people. And I mean, that's not even touching on his a record of of civilian drone ah kills. I feel like he maybe still has the record for American presence on that. So ah it's.
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, the jewels were already in place for someone who's like willing to push the authoritarianism as far as it could. And and then then we act surprised that someone's doing that when it's like we have this police state and apparatus and all these things already. It's already there. So like, why are we acting like that someone wasn't just going to use that? It's like, oh, no only hope someone good has these tools. Yeah.
00:49:45
Speaker
putin Well, that's that's always what it's built around. It's built around the right person doing the right thing, right? But the problem is is that very rarely is that the case, if ever, right?
00:49:56
Speaker
So it's like and these are just the tools that are in place to you know maintain power in the most forceful way possible. And ah what way you're talking about with Obama being related to that, because was president when this film came out, obviously,
00:50:09
Speaker
this There's this, ah you know, is there's this idea that like Democrats are less, you know, ah they're lax on immigration, but the reality is is it's a unipari issue, right? Because they can understand ah the exploitation of that labor and the exploitation of those ah bodies, you know, their families, you know, it's actually ah an industry in America, right?
00:50:30
Speaker
And, you know, how much they can force these people into prisons, into, you know, low paying jobs, you know, with no health care to just do the most menial work. Right.
00:50:41
Speaker
These are the things that persist even to this day. And at the moment that anything goes wrong, they look to the Mexicans, you know, maybe the Mexicans have a bit of a weight off their shoulders these days because it seems like transgender people are the main targets for whatever. put A lot of eggs in the basket. Yeah. Even though it's like such a small population of people who aren't doing anything to anybody, but they're like, oh, what are you doing over there?
00:51:05
Speaker
what One could make the argument that the people who are going after those eggs in that basket are themselves eggs. but um oh well Well put. ah Yeah, and like we said, this is it's a uniparty thing. Like when Kamala said, don't come, she wasn't talking about edging. yeah blocking your The refugee crisis and that stuff. she's like She was like, no, like because there's this notion that like that eats up.
00:51:31
Speaker
You know, like, ah they're a leech on the state they eat up resources and stuff like they're not even paying taxes. And it's like and there could be enough to go. mean, I feel like we've talked about this ah before in dispelling like the overpopulation myth. It's like but there's enough houses here. in a america we could house and feed everybody if we wanted it to but we don't want to.
00:51:54
Speaker
It's like that's by design. There's a reason why the the kids in the long walk had to take a long walk and not the train, right? And it's because the reason the trains don't run in America is because they're built that way to not be for the people, right? That's ultimately what it is, is America is not a place meant for the people, right? It's meant to exploit the people for the gains of the wealthy few, right?
00:52:17
Speaker
And ah this film is... saying all of that without really making that the front focus, right? It is still ah zombie film. You could watch this movie and just accept it as, you know, this is what happened in this town and here are the corrupt politics within the town, right?
00:52:33
Speaker
And not look at it on on the bigger level. But if you don't look at it down on the bigger level, you're doing yourself a disservice. You know, you're you're ignoring how zombies as well as horror itself can be this fantastic mirror.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's oh that's probably a big part of me becoming such a big horror fan, besides not being as much as a scaredy pants any anymore. that it's It has something to say, and you can get these perspectives. ah You know, we're saying all these things that...
00:53:00
Speaker
Like, who else is doing that in found footage movie? But like, who else is tackling that in other but like, now I'm not saying there aren't other movies that ah ah approach these subjects, but that's not the norm, you know, like in terms like what's popular and the most ah watched and produced things.
00:53:19
Speaker
ah Don't want to touch these things with like a 10 yard stick, like because it's like. I mean, know, when it be too political or controversial, you know, you just scare away a portion of the audience or whatever. And then I say, you fuck those people. but I mean, like, yeah they ought to see the movie because it's too woke up. You can go. So...
00:53:41
Speaker
go Go back to sleep, you idiot. Like, come on, don't want to talk to you if you're if you you that way, you know? Go um watch Family Guy clips on your phone or something. Or like, not even full clips, maybe just like five seconds because that's your attention span. It's just like Peter Griffin walks in the door and then you laugh because that's just funny to you.
00:54:03
Speaker
Family Guy fans taking strays. Sorry. they They deserve it. They've had too good for too long. You just preach to the choir, man. yeah Yeah, there's like 10 spinoffs to that show. I mean, hey, ah ah David Lynch maybe liked some of that, that he was in the Cleveland show, or maybe he just did that because he chuckled to himself of like, yeah yeah, that is funny if I'm on the Cleveland show.
00:54:26
Speaker
And he's right. That is. but I don't watch that show, but that is funny that he was on it. Apparently he was like pitched to do several different animated shows at the same time. And the Cleveland show is the only one he said yes to.
00:54:37
Speaker
Like he was supposed to be like on Rick and Morty or something or like more Simpsons or something. That's O-Cony. Something I wanted to get to when you're saying like what stories are being told in this way or or what kinds of movies are being told ah talking about this. You're exactly right. Right. And ah one thing I wanted to, I guess, point to is like imagining like the the dramatic like Oscar awards, he kind of movie about like Mexican immigration, right.
00:55:03
Speaker
Where it's kind of like nomad land where you've got like, you know, cameras really close to people's faces and it's, you know, a lot of people sobbing and stuff. And while they, uh, may represent, you know, uh, the real pain through words, right.
00:55:16
Speaker
Uh, you don't actually feel that reality, right? And I find that something like Savage Land, right? it's It's this prism of horror that makes this work because it's able to step back a bit, get a full picture of it all, and it's actually able to make a commentary on how these people are treated in a way that doesn't like, you know,
00:55:34
Speaker
it's It's not trying to like over explain itself. Right. It just presents the way that the world is through a fictional lens. And that itself is able to reach a deeper truth sometimes than something that's trying to be a bit more touchy feely in my books.
00:55:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it. it because it still lands hard even if it's not like a weepy Oscar bait thing it's not like you're like losing any of that impact to me this like it's I mean maybe on the same level of like this is a was it made by Scorsese but I also thought a lot about Killers of the Flower Moon of like you know it's about sure a community that was genocide you of like wiped off the basically wiped off the map and that no one cared about it, you know, because it wasn't to some to a group of people that they keep deemed human or are worth their their sympathies. And but like you said, there's only the only obituary is for the white hunter. Mm-hmm.
00:56:27
Speaker
it which is insane, right? And it like the the thing is, is whether or not this is real, right? Whether or not there are zombies at the center of this, right? Like the real blame for all of this is the law enforcement, right? Because where were they when all of this was happening?
00:56:41
Speaker
It doesn't sound like Salazar was going through this like within minutes. It sounds like An hour or so, really. I imagine like a course of a few hours or something until the cops got there. But it's like that was its own community. like that was like kind of like the migrant town where they said, you know, like people live there and then would come to the bigger city to work or something. So they're like, that's not their priority. They're like the whatever those people are doing their thing.
00:57:07
Speaker
that That's none of our business. Let's just look not to talk about them or think about them ever. Yes, and and that's why when they do make those like comparisons to other massacres throughout American history, like Tulsa and others that my mind is escaping, ah it actually does feel accurate, right? Because it does feel like if there was more of a response, if there was like you know some kind of enforcement from a place of empathy rather than vengeance, right?
00:57:33
Speaker
Then perhaps there could have been some kind of solution here. But because there was there this like persistent bigotry and this need to find the villain rather than ah solution, this probably just continues to persist. Yeah, I don't know. it's it's a It's bold.
00:57:48
Speaker
It is bold. Yeah. don't You don't get this in any found footage. that's so That's what makes it so special for me. you the in And yeah, like you said, it's kind of a warning of like, if we get distracted by this stuff, that evil is just gonna continue. Like, it's like there they're still out there going place to place. Like, even if they're not...
00:58:09
Speaker
ah going through like large towns. It's like those are still innocent people getting caught in in this because just because the people were unwilling to but confront a uncomfortable truth. And it also speaks to the Al Gore. Oh, all that he's for the sequel, right? We got Michael Moore for the first one. We'll get Al Gore for Sajlan 2.
00:58:29
Speaker
but But speaking to that point, too, where it's like this is growing out and going into smaller towns, right? Like, I feel like especially within like the far right conservative branch, they often talk about how they are for the, you know, small red towns. runs ah You know, the the great irony of the hairy ones. Like, that's where all the crime is. They're like, we need to...
00:58:49
Speaker
that that that The, you know, that's God is in the small towns or in the suburbs and that that's, you know, like the the red communities. But it's like, no, those are the places that they're hitting. it it's like that they're not Exactly. They're not going to cities.
00:59:03
Speaker
And it's like that whenever they do talk about those problems, they talk about, you know, like it's the fentanyl overdose, right? It's, you know, ah problems of mental health, right? No, it's just a lack of resources. It's literally there is no jobs anymore. You know, they're on the fringes of society. there Any kind of support they could have, whether it be educational or medical, are slowly going away. Right.
00:59:26
Speaker
And they're getting more and more desperate. Right. So the these spaces, of course, become more violent, you know. And, ah you know, they they keep looking in the wrong places because it makes for better news stories at 11. Right.
00:59:38
Speaker
But, ah you know, when it comes to actually dealing with the problems at the heart of America, As usual, America takes the path of least resistance and the one in which the people who are able to make money off of all this stuff ah continue to make money off of it.
00:59:52
Speaker
Right, because it's politically advantageous, whether you're a pundit or just some jerk off Nazi influencer or, you know, like that someone who who actually, you know, wields power to influence policy. That's like it to...
01:00:10
Speaker
it To just promote the continued dehumanization of of those people, is it's it's advantageous for groups of people. And it's like, we need to be able to recognize that. And so I mean, calling it out is not enough to change it because that's only as effective on someone who could feel shame or something. And they don't. But they it does the is a step. We do need to be able to identify and call it out.
01:00:35
Speaker
hmm. And we need to understand why, you know, immigration happens in that way already, right? Like why a Mexican family would want to come over the border in that desperate fashion rather than go in and quotations the right way, right?
01:00:48
Speaker
There are so many different avenues that just do not get examined, right? And when you have these people who are talking about how, ah you know, the process of immigration is just as simple as one, two, three, it's, you know, you sign piece of paper. It's really like i'm not.
01:01:03
Speaker
was like, no, Exactly. Look up all the shit you have to do. And it's not it's not like you get to immediately take a test. There's like steps to that. And it's like I bet a lot of people, a lot of Americans would not be even able to pass that test of National Board of Americans. if if i i I have no reason to not believe the numbers on like American illiteracy. But like that doesn't bode well for people.
01:01:30
Speaker
ah learned skill, like the ability to, the stuff you would need to know on that test, the people are not going and I'm, hey, I would do American too, like you want me to name the capital of every state? i There's too many states. No, we don't we don't, we don't need two Dakotas. Combine them.
01:01:46
Speaker
One. Carolina's, come on. Yeah. Too many. Come on. ah But I get what did you mean, right? And Virginia's, come on. ah But ah the the the thing with the that, right, is like an immigrant is going to have a much better understanding of America in general because they have to take that test, right? and answer American is not meant to.
01:02:05
Speaker
Exactly. and And speaking from a Canadian perspective, like I know so many friends and family members, you know, who like have immigrant parents or something, right, where it's like they will be waiting for years to get these tests done. Right. The wait lists and the backlogs on these things are insane.
01:02:22
Speaker
Right. So it's like. to To imagine ah how someone has to, you know, put their entire life on pause for several years to make this kind of change versus like, you know, just enter it and kind of reverse it after the fact. Right.
01:02:38
Speaker
There's a reason why people do that. It's because like they don't want to have to get caught up in the machinery of ah of it all. And it's so funny that conservatives bring this up every time because I thought they didn't like big government.
01:02:49
Speaker
yeah I thought they wanted it to be easier. They don't have any consistent ideology on that. for It's like you they don't want big government unless it's enforcing their values or also like free speech should be allowed unless it's the speech they don't like. Like we saw very recently with people trying to like make lists to ah of like, oh, this person shared something, making a joke about Charlie Kirk, so we'll get them fired. It's like, that's such bullshit. It's like... That's actual cancel culture. Like cancel culture is how conservatives see it is not actually a thing. But if you're getting people fired and doxing people for making jokes online, that that's cancel culture. And there's no reason for that other than spite.
01:03:32
Speaker
For sure. and and it's big And that speaks to the conservative ideology in general, where they feel like they've been slighted or something, right? And they need to get vengeance, right? you We see it in Savage Women, right? Like them going after Salazar is a lot less about like Salazar and more like their...
01:03:50
Speaker
for long grievances with the Mexican community and trying to make an example out of him. Right. And the reality is, is like, no matter how hard somebody tries to do that, right, that is not a persistent or sustainable ah way of delivering your message.
01:04:05
Speaker
You're only going to keep on emboldening those crazy people. But after a certain period of time, and that that that scope turns inwards. Right. And people know that. Right. So it's a it's a it's more of a waiting game in that way.
01:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's just in the the none of the they're never thinking about the long term. It's just short term. It's it's easier just to blame it on one guy, even if it makes no sense that one guy could do all this.
01:04:28
Speaker
If you have one named guy who you can point to be like, that was him. And then you're like, OK, well, that solves that. And I got to say, like, you know, out of all the people they could have found, a guy named Salazar, right?
01:04:40
Speaker
That's a cool name, right? so they really hit the goldmine in that sense. You know, like being able to say Salazar over and over again. Makes me think I'm happy about as an evil four. There's a villain called Salazar in Red Dead 4. So I'm like, well, I don't know if he's related that guy. Maybe he did do it.
01:04:57
Speaker
but I would have loved it, you know, like there's a scene where like you're seeing like a few pictures back and forth and all of a sudden the head yeah tears open. You got bunch of tentacles, you know? Hell yeah. And then you hear Salazar go, Mr. Kennedy. People were surprised that Resident Evil 5 was racist and it was like, well...
01:05:16
Speaker
You're already going, 4 is already going to a a Spanish community and killing everyone. Like, we just didn't, we didn't mind it because the game was so well done that we weren't like, like thinking about those implications that there was like a Mr. World Ending Cult coming from this, this Spanish place. And and they're like, okay, Africa now. Like, oh, okay, hold on.
01:05:41
Speaker
but Well, the you're you're getting at the perfect point where it was just like, even though they're Spanish, they're they're white, right? like they Like all of them are very pale and it's like, you know, whatever, right? Like a Spanish community like that, it just reads as European at a certain point, right?
01:05:55
Speaker
And then when you go to Africa, that brings with it a ah whole different line of connotations, right? Like we're speaking about colonialism at that point, you know, where you're getting like... an American force unit just going out there killing a bunch of black people.
01:06:08
Speaker
yeah That game aged poorly the day it came out. ah that they They tried to patch it before it came out to make it better, right? yeah I believe so, but you can't. It's too baked in because there's like straight up, once you get deeper in, because it's like first you start off in a city and like, okay, a outbreak happening there and you have to fight off infected people. It's like... op it People always argue against them. Oh, that's where it's set. Like it being the Africans isn't racist. It's like, OK, but what about when you keep going and you get to like the swamplands and there's spearmen wearing like tribal stuff? at the They have big lip. I forget what you call it. It brings like the lip down. It's something it's like, OK, I think you're getting into racism territory when you get there.
01:06:51
Speaker
And then can't you like put the black sidekick in one of those outfits too? Like, isn't she, isn't there like. Yeah, some kind of like short skirt version of that. yeah because they still have to sexualize her because she's a, you know, woman. So, yes, of course. Of course, as as you do in the video game.
01:07:09
Speaker
Well, I'm going to play a game with a not sexy woman. If I can't turn off to the character, why am I playing it? what Why do you play so many Kirby games, Doug? That that really that that really puts things in perspective. What that mouth do.
01:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. They can get both nuts in there. they You got it. Flies and Threw my favorite Mario character. well yeah
01:07:35
Speaker
But yeah, no, ah this is all to say, Zack Greger, you know, I know yeah ah you're doing the right thing. You know, but don't go to Africa for for your movie. You know, the forget. He goes so well that he gets cocky and he's like, you know what?
01:07:50
Speaker
I handle Resident Evil 5. I got this. I'm like, Zack, no!
01:07:58
Speaker
You're supposed to destroy the evil, not join it. You know what? like Oh, by the way, i was listening to a ah Zach Hager on the last podcast on the left. He did an interview with them. Right.
01:08:10
Speaker
Guess what? He confirmed that Gladys was based on the woman from Fire Walk With Me, the one on the airplane. We call it... um We call it... up the who Who guys got juice?
01:08:23
Speaker
These guys got juice. We nailed it. We nailed it. And Zach, you know, come on the pod or also let us be in your booth. I mean, i'm I'm not really in front of the camera guy, but I could i could be a zombie or, help you know, if you want help writing any of the stuff, you know, I'm available.
01:08:39
Speaker
Maybe we can shoot our shot with him. he's He's been doing a lot of podcast appearances. If you're interested, maybe we can shoot a shot there, you know, in that sense. But hey, there's I know he's a big... The worst secret that can happen is he says no. So, you know.
01:08:53
Speaker
Or nothing at all. Right. And either way, like we we already know it. Like if that happens, that's the normal answer. Yeah, nothing lost. Like I'm going in as seeing that those are more likely. So other like, hey, if there's even a chance...
01:09:07
Speaker
I was surprised because he he's a big fan of Double Toasted. And he had Corey Coleman like come out to like the the set. And i was just like, that's crazy. you know like like I've always loved Corey Coleman. And I felt like I was one of the only people. So it's like, that's cool that Zack Greger likes him too, you know?
01:09:23
Speaker
He just seems like a cool guy. So, I mean, i yeah, I would love to to pick his brain. And then also drink him into confirming on Mike that weapons is political. Because he keeps saying that, like, I didn't mean to do. It's not about school shooting. I don't know. We'll try what you want.
01:09:39
Speaker
And I'm like, all right, Zach, there's an AR. Sure. There's an AR in the clouds. Come on, bud. Yeah.
01:09:48
Speaker
on On that same podcast, he actually did delve into the meaning of it a bit more. And and he did give more than I've heard him in other views or interviews say. And one of the things he did say was that ah there there is an in an explicitly put in there ah commentary on alcoholism and specifically the stuff with the kid. Right.
01:10:08
Speaker
And all of him taking care of his parents and stuff ah came from a deeply personal place. Right. oh So while we don't know about like the school shooting thing, right we still do know that- That gun is everywhere. Could mean anything. i don't know.
01:10:21
Speaker
Who's to say? ah Josh Brolin, you know, ah getting mad at parent-teacher interviews, trying to go after the teachers. Who's to say? Could be anything. But that makes sense in terms of the ah metaphor of Al, because that stuff did feel like very poignant and meaningful. And so I that's yeah that's sad that any any child that has to go through that where they're basically have to be the adult because the adults aren't present to adult. No, yeah.
01:10:50
Speaker
No, for sure. You're right. it's It forces them to grow up, right? But it also, ah you know, gives them a more mature outlook on life oftentimes, you know? but And clearly that's true with Zack Greider. So if anything, it's a gift. so they and That's what I was saying. Exactly. Yes.
01:11:07
Speaker
Zack Greider, I'm glad you went through that because it made you stronger, you know? that's the victory yeah i I always hate that mentality, too, where I feel like that also is like a very right wing thing when they're like, no, suffering is good because it makes you strong. Like that's always their justification for cutting like social welfare or safety net stuff of like, well, if you don't like, you know, learn to fend for yourself, you're not going to be able to to be self-sufficient. And that's the greatest gift of all.
01:11:33
Speaker
Like, no, the greatest gift of all is if we just gave people money every month. they do that would be like that That would be the greatest gift of all. And ironically, would be better for the economy if we all just had extra
Humorous Political Speculations
01:11:44
Speaker
money. I don't know No.
01:11:46
Speaker
I'm just some guy with some ideas and a microphone. But if you come to me in 2028, that's my policy. I'll give you money. I'll have the bear that says you're being manipulated, but then also I'll give you money. Okay. And I just imagine all the people just being like, is that technically breaking like, you know, right? He's offering to pay people out, you know, and but you're at that point, you're getting a bunch of like donations from, you know, the worst people.
01:12:15
Speaker
So they just all shut up, you know, so. Yeah. And you can do whatever. So that there's no rules now. I mean, so who cares? We're like 10 years out from The Rock being president. OK, like we we can we can have some fun with it. You know, what party do you think? Because would he just be his own party or be I'm independent?
01:12:32
Speaker
I think he's a conservative. I really i think like yeah that's where I'm just curious, like what he would run as like. um I think that he he would probably run as a conservative, I think. i think he And i would think that it would be during a time when they need to change their image. When they be like, oh, we're not just the hate party. ah Can we find a nice guy? yeah i he work exactly He's smiling and he's non-white.
01:12:59
Speaker
They're like, he's something. I don't know. smith and And he kind of taps into like the Arnold Schwarzenegger appeal too, right? Or he's like a big buff dude, but he's talking about things, right? And a and also movie star, right?
01:13:12
Speaker
Ronald Reagan, of course, even Donald Trump to an extent. But ah the the thing is, is like the whole Trump... era, right? i I don't really see it being sustainable much past him, almost, because I don't always feel like J.D. Vance or anyone else has the juice like he does. He's uniquely qualified to be able to sustain that. Like you said, J.D. Vance does not have that juice, and that's why I think, like, when he actually dies, they're going to be, like, trying to weaken it, burning him, like, as long as possible, because I think they know that they can't, like, keep that going without him. So,
01:13:47
Speaker
ah it It's going to be is guy it's goingnna be similar to the death of Stalin, probably. of Them just like running around a panic like, okay, wait, who's actually in charge? Uh, fuck, fuck, fuck. Stephen Miller, get out there. Uh, Kash Patel, uh, don't know. what eight wait Pretend you're busy. i don't know.
01:14:04
Speaker
Keep looking like you have a brick of cocaine melting in your ass. Like, that's what his eyes are bug permanently bugged out. Like, or ecstasy. It looks like he's, something's kicking in at all times. Like, he just, like, just dropped some.
01:14:14
Speaker
He's just started peeking, and and he's just like, whoa. He always looks like he knows he's fucking up. He looks like he is, like... He's in the midst of doing a really bad job and he knows that everyone can tell he's doing a bad job, but he's trying really hard. And that's why his eyes are like, oh, shit.
01:14:32
Speaker
Sorry. yeah he He is my favorite character. yeah he said, I will see you in Valhalla about Charlie Kirk. And it's like, he's a war boy. What are you doing, man? um Yeah, exactly. Fury Road. That's... ah Yeah, ah Miller was really ahead of the... George Miller was finger on the pulse or ahead of
Mythology and Cultural Commentary
01:14:51
Speaker
the curve. ah Foot on the gas. Why do white... I be i guess we don't have to unpack all all this now, but like the white white supremacist fetishization of like Norse shit, like is that just because they were white? Like like that that that like that's their ideal peak whiteness? Like that they were like, you know, a Nordic, long blonde hair and...
01:15:13
Speaker
Fucking buff dudes with axes killing shit. Well, when you look through like, ah you know, the this is going to sound really ridiculous, but like white guy W's, I guess, through history, right, where they can imagine themselves as like powerful and just and all that stuff.
01:15:31
Speaker
They have to go as far back as the Vikings because there is this like built in. ah you know, mythology and cultural, you know, a thing that's associated with that ah time and place. Right. And when you look into the future and especially within like the past 200 years, right.
01:15:46
Speaker
ah There's not a lot of like real culture. Right. Especially differentiating between like European countries. Right. There's a reason why the Nazis specifically were really into the Norse mythology stuff was because it gives their, you know, perspective meaning. There's right just a possibility to it that they don't have anywhere else to it because you're like, yeah, define white culture. don't know.
01:16:10
Speaker
Well, well it's it's much it's much easier for them to imagine themselves as Vikings than the people who lost World War I, right? Right. And the only reason that they can compare themselves to the Vikings is because, you know, big, strong, predominantly white, mostly white, ah people stealing people's land and raping and pillaging, right?
01:16:30
Speaker
They're like, I like raping and pillaging, so on both of those things. and And you get a boat. but Like, who doesn't love a good boat? All those oars, come on. But but this ah that that's that's where I come at it, because, like, you see even people like, like, I've talked to, like, racist white people who dash eyes that stuff as well.
01:16:50
Speaker
and And it really does come down to power fantasy, for at least for the way i I see it, right? Where it's like they're imagining what they could be, but they can't attain it because they hate working out and they love complaining. Yeah. Yeah.
01:17:02
Speaker
Because I was going say, like, i think I think all mythology is cool, but I was like, i don't even think Norse gets in my, like, top three. Like, I mean, God of War made it seem more appealing, but even then I was like, oh, okay, I'm glad we're only spending two games here in Norse world. do we we We wrapped that up. We were not, I'm like, let's let' go to some, let's go to Egypt or...
01:17:23
Speaker
Oh, hell yeah. he should be He should be fighting Jesus by the end of the series. I've always maintained that. he needs to go through every other mythology, kill all those gods, and then the final game is you like nail, it's like a QTE, and you like nail Christ to the cross. ah ah that's it Or he is the one who gets put on the cross, and it turns out that we were watching Jesus.
01:17:44
Speaker
Kratos is Jesus. Whoa. That's what I'm saying. he has to kill all the other gods because he is the he's the one. He's the chosen one, right? ah but But the one country I would like to see a god of war game in is India.
01:17:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, they got some crazy looking gods. all All those arms, you know, like I can imagine the quick time events already. Like it would be it would be fun. yeah ah Instead of like riding on horses, you ride on cows. You know, they're a sacred creature, you know.
01:18:11
Speaker
That's just a good visual. Kratos on a cow. That sounds yeah good. and Yeah. Right. Like, yeah plus, like, I've never seen a cow, like, book it, but it'd be cool to see one do that, you know? Sony, know you're listening.
01:18:23
Speaker
Make it happen. Do you get it on the
Game Narratives vs. TV Adaptations
01:18:25
Speaker
books? Do you know that Amazon, I'm pretty sure it's an Amazon show. I'm like, hey, I know the Fallout game, like, exceeded people's expectations. Like, that game is a legit, like, great, and it's, like, good adaptation, but I don't think all these games need to be TV shows, but they're doing God of War. Mm-hmm.
01:18:39
Speaker
But as a show, which is already like a strike, I'm like, those should be movies. But then also they're starting with Norse chapter. but oh But the Greek stuff informs that it doesn't mean anything to see him be a dad if we haven't seen him already lose a previous family and then kill every single Greek god about it. That like we need to see that or the arc between Atreus to mean anything. That just tells me they're going to do flashbacks. And if that's what they do, then it's just going to be so boring. Right. And also just the idea of doing a God of War show.
01:19:12
Speaker
Like, i like those more recent games, but the main draw of those games was Carnage at its core. Right. I'm like more like is doing the killing and the fighting. So that's why it's fun. You know, fun.
01:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, and and when it got a better storyline, it was still in service of, like, teaching a kid the right way to live in those ways. And that's a strong narrative to hang any kind of story on, right? But it's like, do we need another?
01:19:39
Speaker
You know, like, Last of Us is already a hit in P.O.R.T. 49. I kind of fell off Last of Us because i' it's like... And similar to the Kratos-Atreus dynamic, I feel like that actually benefits from the format of a game where you can have those, even if they're scripted moments of like the bonding feels more natural because it's spaced out in between these gameplay segments. whereas When you would have the parts with Ellie and Joel in the show, it just felt like we were speed running that relationship where it was like, no, actually, it feels more meaning. Like if you let those those moments breathe and it's like, oh, I just spent this much time doing these puzzles. And now Ellie makes a corny joke that Joel kind of chuckles at.
01:20:23
Speaker
I'm. like more hardened to that than at just happening after another. If we're just cutting to the scene and it's like, okay, time for a Joel and Ellie moment. It's like that the kind of doesn't have the same weight. It feels court mandated almost, right? Like, time to bubble in the house. they Yeah, exactly. You're going to eat your vegetables, Piggy. Open up your mouth and enjoy the slop, right? That's what happens in these scenarios, right? And it's because ah they treat them like that what they are, which is they treat them like brands, right? And the brand of those shows is to have that sentimental approach to it. But because that's how they see it, the brand, ah they treat it as an obligation, right?
01:21:02
Speaker
Yeah. The thing is, is what you're referring to there, right? Like those little like offhanded remarks that they all say in the games, right? Those are the things that build up the connection with those characters for us, right? Like those unexpected moments where we can hear them be people outside of cut seats, right?
01:21:17
Speaker
And it's impossible for a show to capture that feeling without giving more breathing room, right? It's why I never watched the last of the show. Because I knew it was impossible for them to give breathing room for one game each season.
01:21:30
Speaker
And then when I heard that they were going to make the second game like three different seasons, okay that's like going in the complete opposite direction where it's like, i don't need to see all those beats drawn out just to that degree. you know just Just give me one good story and and and give that that story the amount of time it deserves. so Don't try to draw some things out and rush others. you know it It feels like ah half measures the entire way down.
01:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And... Yeah, I don't know anything else to say on the last. Savage Land. Savage Land. and any Any final thoughts on on Savage Land? um I would like to see a lot more found footage films made in this way.
01:22:11
Speaker
i like I talk often about like how this this genre has so many ways in which you could approach it. And I think that while others have been fairly political, this was like the most explicitly political found footage film to date, right?
01:22:26
Speaker
And I think that this, format as a strong ah structure to it where you can talk about these topics in this way and have it permeate in a way that other films in a more traditional narrative just can't.
Political Storytelling in Found Footage
01:22:41
Speaker
Because you can just go through my interview and then just see, like, because you don't have to, like you said, someone could just watch this and enjoy this as a zombie movie even if they're doing themselves a discredit, but you're...
01:22:51
Speaker
relaying the message in a more natural way if you're just like I'm just gonna show the person who with this viewpoint and they're just gonna talk like like like they would so yeah you just have that so you don't have to have another character stop and then explain the moral who is like well actually this is bad it's like no we will just see that it's bad because you're presenting it to us plainly They're presenting it to us plainly, but there's still so much room for that interpretation, as we've discussed, right?
01:23:20
Speaker
And there's another movie I thought about a lot while I was watching this one, which was ah Barry Levinson's The Bay. Did you ever see that one? No, i but I was always fascinated by that because I was like, not, you know, I no longer think of as found footage as like a lower tier thing, but I was like, Barry Levinson, like I just said, it was, it was,
01:23:41
Speaker
It would be like some other kind of prestigious director. Although I don't know how prestigious is Barry Love I think he's... He's pretty prestigious. He was a big guy in the 80s and ninety s Yeah, just because there's two bad Men in Black movies. Like, I can't i can knock him completely for that. ah I think he still has some juice. that The Series of Unfortunate Events series was all right.
01:24:03
Speaker
Well, like, ah e you haven't seen The Bay then, right? And I won't spoil it in case you do, right? ah But, like, that film has a problem where it's so much about the event, right? And there's so many angles of that event as it transpires, and we're seeing it from so many different angles, right?
01:24:19
Speaker
And while the threat itself is unique, right? um there is a lack of confidence in how it pervades its message, right? And that's just the thing that keeps on coming up with Savage Land. It's like, ah it knows what it wants to say, and whether it be from a budgetary standpoint or just in what they want to say. They don't go out of their way to make it so pronounced. They are finding ways to give you it all without like telling it to your face directly.
01:24:47
Speaker
And, you know, if more found footage shells were made with that intentionality, I think more people would understand the value in this format. Also, just using still images, i feel like could just other types of media is the broader concept that I love and found footage. But I'm fine if someone just rips off that idea, too, of just using photographs because it's so effective.
01:25:12
Speaker
Like, um I mean, eventually I would get tired of it after like 20 hundreds of copycats. But I'm like, well, copy your copy for a really good thing. So the more horror directors do that.
01:25:23
Speaker
because it's scary yeah it's okay to steal when the thing you're stealing from is so rare in that sense and as long as you are um you know very uh respectful to the thing you are stealing from and you don't try to hide that right right and you know off to the races it's been 10 years you know we should have a savage land too you know and i don't mean that in the literal sense you know there should be more movies that are like this exactly you know that maybe maybe you only feel a few films I can think of really that's like this either besides The Bay is like ah there's this movie called like The Death of the President and it's ah from the perspective of if George W. Bush was killed right who and you know ah it's a really bad movie it's not a good premise
01:26:05
Speaker
is It's a fantastic premise, right? But like, that's what it is, right? Like you hear the idea that this is taking place in an alternate reality where George Bush got shot, right? And you're looking at it from the perspective of after the fact, right?
01:26:16
Speaker
That's a really interesting idea for a movie, right? And I feel like a lot of people would be interested in taking those other alternative history routes or just seeing these stories from a ground level. That, yeah, it just general alternative history is probably like the most affordable budget conscious way you can do that too, because you don't,
01:26:33
Speaker
you can imply so much of the world, even if it you're just cutting to different talking heads, you know, like they say, show, don't tell, but you kind of still are showing it when you're showing the it's a specificity when you're having someone talk in that manner, in that way, that's, that, that, that is show. And also whatever is stuff they teach you in screenwriting classes, not always, you know, those but rules are meant to be broken.
Media Literacy in Film
01:27:04
Speaker
The rules are meant to be broken specifically because we're not talking about specifically films, right? Like the the magic of a found footage film is that it needs to be also television. It also needs to be ah unscripted, like drama footage, right?
01:27:18
Speaker
And in order for you to make a good found footage film, and you have to have extremely strong media literacy. You have to understand how all of these different formats work and how you can make them work together.
01:27:29
Speaker
Right. And that's where the big promise for this format is and what makes those best examples stand out so much. Yeah, i I co-sign on all
Len Wein's Contribution
01:27:38
Speaker
that. The only thing I have to add, I just wanted to shout out that ah the awesome ah war photographer is played by Len Wein or Wein. I don't know. I've never heard his name said out loud, but he's a He was a prolific comic book writer. He was credited with the co-creating Storm, Wolverine, also Swamp. Whoa! Character Swamp Thing. So the fact that he's in this movie and does a pretty darn good job because I fucking buy him as this war photographer.
01:28:07
Speaker
He has one of the best line reads when he's like, i do do you have a gun? Because i I sure do. I sleep with one under my pillow after seeing those photographs. Before they'd They use that clip twice because it goes so hard. But then also before you see the pictures, it sets up that anticipation. Like, holy shit, these photographs are going to fucking terrifying. And then they are like to the height that he sets. But yeah, great performance by him. I don't know how he ended up being in this. Because my knowledge is not like someone who acts much, but he fucking kills it.
01:28:38
Speaker
and That's shocking. I had no idea that that was their background. I always assume that they get people who are kind of close to the characters. Right. But the fact that he's from the comics world, he has no real like photography background, I guess, ah beyond like a hobby thing. Maybe I don't know him really. Right. So and that's something you want about all the actors before he did. I don't know if I didn't go far back enough on his Wikipedia. Maybe there's a whole section where he's like, no, he was in Nam.
01:29:04
Speaker
but But I think that all the actors do a great job as well, right? Where I don't think that, like, that that's also the struggle of any found footage film where they can't be too professional to where they feel stilted and they need to feel like ah real people without being too awkward, right?
01:29:18
Speaker
And I feel like all the people they get for this have enough screen presence to where they just, yeah nothing goes without a hitch. It goes without a hitch. You don't ever feel the bumps of, this is an unprofessional actor. You just buy into the world of it.
01:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, i'm there's no moments that did bring me out of this, except I will say when it's not the photographs, when you see that quick zombie attack against the hikers at the very end, it does look a little...
01:29:45
Speaker
cheap but it helps that it's like oh the the the camera or whatever recorded that it was like some trail camera or something was damaged so it's it keeps you know kind of glitching in and out that it I think helps it because if it had just been clear and we just see it plainly you would have maybe looks like cheap or stuff like the zombies are more effective as as the images like I don't think they had the means to make them look great in motion but I think they also understood those limits which is why They kind of even in motion are giving it to you with those caveats. Well, it speaks to the realism that we're given throughout this entire film, right? Like but how many found footage films have we seen, right? Where it's like we recovered this camera and it's got this footage on there, right? And whenever they do like the perfect quality, nothing's wrong with the tape.
01:30:33
Speaker
For whatever reason, the tape just gets kind of corrupted whenever the threat's around, right? And it just doesn't make any sense. And, you know, the the idea that you find this camera and it's nearly toast, right? Like the the footage is just so far gone, right?
01:30:48
Speaker
It speaks to that reality a bit more, even if it's just a way for them to find a way to cheaply cover over what they're doing. Yeah, great movie. Everyone go watch it.
Social Media and Promotions
01:30:58
Speaker
Do you have any plugs? Yeah, you can find me at PearlRoloTony on Twitter.
01:31:04
Speaker
And I'm also doing a miniseries on ah the films of Larry Fezzedin in Films We Trust. ah Just recorded the Wendigo and Last Winter ep, so expect that very soon, guys.
01:31:16
Speaker
Hell yeah. And you can find me on Twitter at TheDougFiles, also on YouTube at TheDougFiles. I'm going to be up, you know, clip clips from podcasts will probably be going up there, but then also probably do a video on like all the games that I've been playing since this summer. Kind of like a compilation shout out of some various indie games and stay tuned for years. It's going to be more great stuff. Hell yeah.
01:31:42
Speaker
Bye. I don't know.