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One Battle After Another
64 Plays14 days ago
Viva la revolución!
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Transcript
Introduction and Los Alamos Museum Anecdote
00:00:00
Speaker
I've had a few. A few what? A few small beers.
00:00:16
Speaker
Have I told you that I've been to like Los Alamos, like the museum? Have we discussed this on mic or in person before? I don't remember if we discussed it on mic. I remember you bringing it up, though. I'll bring it up again just for the sake of this conversation, right? But like the... I went to the Los Alamos Museum, right? And comparing that to like the Oppenheimer experience, right? Of what that movie is. And it's interesting because...
00:00:44
Speaker
that movie is often criticized for not like, you know, flashing to Japan or something and showing what happened, right?
Ethical Implications of the Atomic Bomb
00:00:50
Speaker
Or like properly reckoning with it in a different way, right? Like I've heard that critique often lobbed at it, right?
00:00:56
Speaker
And it's often like tied into what you're referencing there with how it's a plot for film and it can't do that. On the flip side of that, right, like going to Los Alamos Museum and seeing the way that the Institute has kind of like preserved that story is ah it's also absent of the ramifications of Oppenheimer. But it's from a different lens where it's kind of celebrating the accomplishment of it. Right.
00:01:21
Speaker
And yeah, there's something like oh it was like really clear minds that did this. This is such a feat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was treated like it was like, i don't know, Einstein just kind of like, you know, came up with the theory of relativity or whatever. And like you're celebrating that, you know, that's not really what you're celebrating, though, when you're on Las Malas. You're essentially like standing on the grounds of like the founding place of the greatest death machine ever. Right. And in American perspective, you know, like from a history from like a governmental stand from you know like i guess war is kind of something to be proud of right but i think that what the movie did so well was that it kind of really nailed home that you know this is something to kind of rectify with right so you can separate the ethics from the science like because that's like what oppenheimer wanted to do and you know of just like he's just like i'm just a scientist that's for the politicians to like
00:02:16
Speaker
do that stuff and then not until it's too late it's like oh fuck like i i shouldn't have done this and murphy won the oscar for a reason right you can just read it on his face at all times right you don't need to see more you know how bad of a job he's done just by like watching him react to all that stuff right so like ah this is all boiling down to just me saying it's like intense right like those experiences you know if If they were mass marketed in that sense where you could like experience that kind of hardship from the lens of this great director trying to twist this ah storytelling experience on its head, you know, i think that's where we'd be successful.
00:02:55
Speaker
Right. But if it were just like, you know, haphazardly thrown together, ah bank robber simulator, you know, something like that, if you would just like leave a really bad poor taste in your mouth, you know, you're right.
Comedic Elements in PTA Movies
00:03:08
Speaker
How many cops can you kill as you get away? Well, actually, maybe that could be fun. GCA. Yeah. But that's actually a good segue to the movie we're going to talk about because it's taking weighty, serious subject matter and make something entertaining as hell. Like i shouldn't have been surprised going in because ah i would say trying to think of a PTA movie that doesn't it's like successfully have humor. Like they're all pretty funny to some extent.
00:03:41
Speaker
I would say, but like, I just like that hadn't even like really crossed my mind, even seeing the previews, even seeing Leo's whole like vibe in it. I wasn't ne going in like expecting to let, I'm like, I was, it's, it's pretty funny throughout. And, and, and it's,
00:04:00
Speaker
the you know similar Alpenheimer's like those three hours just fucking fly by like it's not there's not there's no lulls and I mean there's lulls but there's no lulls ah but yeah i I think this I haven't seen kind of i kind of don't care about box office stuff sometimes other than like kind of just like reading the room of like, okay, like what is it
00:04:31
Speaker
It is a way to just gauge like overall general interest in a thing. But, uh, It seems like this might like have some kind of like sinners ask ah like word of mouth, like like the bit like maybe the opening weekend won't be like as large as like all those, ah you know, write ups before like, oh, one battle has to do this much because of its large budgets. Like it's not making that back in its first weekend, but I think it's going to hold for a while. Yeah.
00:04:58
Speaker
Also, probably benefits from, like, I don't, I mean, maybe I'm forgetting stuff, but, like, i don't think there's much coming out in terms of like, huge competition for it. I mean, like don't think Tron Aries is going to make, like, ah dot negative money.
00:05:12
Speaker
The soundtrack will be possible. What else is fighting one battle after another at the weekend right now? Like Demon Slayer for like its third week, right? Like if we're just talking box office.
00:05:24
Speaker
Right. Which that was, success I think, maybe like the most profitable anime or it's like R-rated animated film or something like that. It was big, but like think...
00:05:36
Speaker
I think it's similar to Sinners where you had people who don't even... Because, you know, people talk about co-worker movies all the time, and it's like co-workers aren't really going to the movies. They just wait until it's, like, on Netflix or something. So I think with with Sinners, we saw people who don't normally, like...
00:05:56
Speaker
take themselves to the theater other than maybe for like you know insert marvel event film here like that they actually like went out to see an original movie um and i guess technically this is ip you know it's based off a book it's in fucking fortnight so it's it's i it's ip But in terms of it's not like a huge franchise, ah but it's still, I think, bringing people out that aren't like going to see stuff normally.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I guess before we get into like the larger thoughts on the movie, it's a good the thing to talk about. Like, I guess the box office of it all, because it's big been a big narrative around the movie, I guess. Right. Going into it because of how impossible it seemed that PTA was making like $150 movie, a million dollar movie. Right. Mm
Box Office Potential and Audience Reception
00:06:44
Speaker
hmm. But the the the thing is, is that like this, the sinners comparison seems likely, you know, in terms of like how it can build.
00:06:54
Speaker
I don't think that it can be as big, though. Right. Because I feel like horror is such an easy sell. Right. It's such a right. Mm easy grab for a lot of especially like Normans, you know, like regular people who just have no affiliation with movies from a week to week basis.
00:07:09
Speaker
When they when you tell them, hey, Michael B. Jordan is good and be fighting vampires. Get it right. ah People have an abrasive feel towards politics, right? And I think that that's the major thing that is pushing up against it. And and I'm not even saying like specific politics.
00:07:25
Speaker
There are people out there who just like hate the idea of politics. And when you just say politics- And they're entertaining, because like, it yeah, there's that notion that entertainment should purely just be that and it it should just be escapist.
00:07:38
Speaker
And, you know, i like, I don't want to think about that shit, even if it's something like you, the audience member would not only agree with it. they're Like, i I just want to see, ah you know, blasters fire at each other. Like, I'm not trying to, like, get get that heavy with it. But I i think that'll be an element to it. But I think.
00:07:56
Speaker
that's already overcoming that for some people. I don't know if it's like just the word of mouth of it all or i it's it's also hard to get cause like Leo is a movie star, but like his last three movies were, uh, uh, four hour movie about genocide. Uh, um,
00:08:12
Speaker
harm Netflix movie and then where I'm forgetting the third what was what was what do he do before between killers and that look up yeah it was our movie between don't look up and killers ah poor cine files right here you know deduct cinema points from both of us I guess for not remembering off the top of our heads The filmography of dr hit that really winning one of the I'm in Hollywood.
00:08:43
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So, and that was successful. I mean, but that's also like carries the like Tarantino as a brand and with it. Like the filmmaker is the brand.
00:08:55
Speaker
Like I feel like PTA has that with film nerds, but like the average person, if you say PTA to them, they probably know there will be blood. Right. Cause like,
00:09:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah. is Is that is that his most like culturally pervasive ah thing just by default? Well, like I would say let's zoom out even on a bigger standpoint. Right. Like we're if we're talking about like public consciousness of PTA. Right.
00:09:23
Speaker
I feel like most people know PTA is like dylanros's favorite film favorite filmmaking. Right. Like beyond Christopher Nolan, I'd say. If you go online, right, like, you if you like see how people talk about PTA, like people on the periphery understand him as somebody like once you get into movies, he's the guy.
00:09:41
Speaker
Right. And I think that when you're in that kind of space, at least PTA. Right. ah You're kind of bubbling. Right. And he really kind of needed this kind of big push in order to be seen by more people, right?
00:09:54
Speaker
and And this is kind of the movie where it's like, ah just by virtue of it being out at this level and at this visibility standpoint, it means that more people will know who he is by the end of this theatrical run regardless, right? And that's just really...
00:10:09
Speaker
big things for whatever down the road. But when it comes to like how his name brings people to the theater, I think it's like because he's built up this goodwill with making all these great movies over the past like decades, that's definitely going to be bringing people people to the theater.
00:10:24
Speaker
But to bring it back to the Sinners comparison, right? i think A, the movie is just damn good. And I think the word of mouth is going to bring people there right and then also like it speaks to like specific diverse quadrants that would love to see more movies with representation like it's often talked about how like black audiences and spanish audiences like they love seeing like showing up at the theater right when there's new representation who saw that with sinners earlier this year right and i think that there is something to be said about this movie
00:10:57
Speaker
having something in play like that as well as more people start to come into terms and realize that, right? Because the marketing
Political Themes and Universal Appeal
00:11:03
Speaker
was just Leo, right? But he is like a lot more than that, right?
00:11:07
Speaker
And think when people understand what this movie is actually about, right? Even though there is that political statement, like thing it's going to have to wear, right? Where that will kind of push people away.
00:11:19
Speaker
I think once people understand what this film is actually kind of about and talking about, they're going to be more interested in seeing what it does. Because, yeah, we ah before we you know go into the full spoiler thing, I feel like there's a deeper emotional core to this that transcends any of the.
00:11:37
Speaker
the Because I think the politics are more than just dressing like it is a political film, but it's also about more than that. And I think that will be to the movie's. credit, especially getting some of those audience members who might not want engage with that kind of movie, because if you just boil it down to take away the specific context of the specific context of like okay revolutionaries fighting the big uh oppressive government you know it's like it's kind of star wars you know like it it is like a ah basic story structure of like the little guys got to fight the you know the people who are oppressing everyone and like you know stand up for what's right and you know you know maybe find love along the way or something like that but like those would be like those are kind of you like universal themes that like are
00:12:29
Speaker
definitely like rooted in politics, but like people, cause the star of the self, please, the political film was also no one, um not no one, but like a lot of people don't remember that as such, cause they're just wrapped up in like the, you know, adventure of that, uh, narrative. And like, and I,
00:12:48
Speaker
I don't think like ah one bout after another can be that escapist to that degree, but I think you can just get swept up in what, what is the emotional core with, with like, you are going to like the movie, it is a way around it. You're going to have to like confront some politics, but as you can walk away if if you're inclined that way, to, like, not be, like, that's not going to be the thing you're focused on. You're be like, oh, well, these is this performance and these scenes and these this part, like, I loved, you know?
00:13:18
Speaker
and like, you're maybe not even thinking about how how woke it is. Well, I would also, like, join you in saying that this movie is pretty gosh-dang woke in certain places, right?
00:13:29
Speaker
um But at the same time, I think the the magic trick is that, like, it doesn't really focus on the theory. it doesn't really, like... make its politics ah so front facing, right?
00:13:41
Speaker
To the point where it's almost like annoyingly apolitical at times, right? Like it's trying to, you know, do like the whole there's extremes on both ends thing. And but at the same time, it's talking about these power structures and really interesting ways.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's inverting ah the ways that people traditionally view ah power structures specifically from a political crowd. And the Star Wars comparison is perfect. um've I've even I think I've a heard DiCaprio say that like he he sees this as Star Wars.
00:14:11
Speaker
And the the thing that I like about that comparison is that um while this film is political and while the pre disposing of that framework onto a modern context in an action film context.
00:14:26
Speaker
ah you don't view it as purely political. You view it as an emotional experience. And it's only when you start to relate it to the now with those characters that the politics become here's day.
00:14:38
Speaker
So if let's say you're that audience member who's just not interested in politics, I just want a good time at the movies, they're not even like think about it. Right. But then upon reflection, they may have that kind of like come to Jesus moment and realize what they just watched was woke as hell, you know, like actually right had some things to say. Right.
00:14:58
Speaker
And then for people who are looking for, you know, incendiary firecrackery kind of films of our era that are able to talk about some things that just ah other films aren't even trying to broach in interesting ways.
00:15:13
Speaker
It kind of feels like the 70s again. That's kind of what this movie is. evokes to me right and I don't mean a stylistic standpoint this feels like the fact that this movie was made at this scale and it's starting to get this kind of like praise right and if if let's let's say it goes all the way to the Oscars right this could really have a real groundswell moment and it it And it feels like a real reckoning in terms of the past, I would say, like decade of just like ignoring of the present in favor of like 80s and 90s nostalgia.
00:15:46
Speaker
Right. Like it feels like right now we are forced to look at right now. And as America continues to devolve, right, like. You know, ah last week it was Jimmy Kimmel. This week it's James Comey. You know, who who knows what's next in the coming weeks, right?
00:16:03
Speaker
Might be this show. at the we say so We say a lot of shit on here. We don't know. So if if we go off the air, you will you know ah you know what to do. Storm the Capitol. You know, if ah if ah Del Toro can be the Mexican Harriet Tubman, then I'll be the Canadian one, okay? That's how work this out.
00:16:20
Speaker
If these guys got juice will close down for a couple weeks, then Doug will be a Canadian randomly. I mean, I've always wanted to visit. Yeah, so i might I might just like end up, you know, just smuggle me in. I'll just live there. There it is.
00:16:34
Speaker
yeah Come in in a maple syrup or, you know, thing, you know, I don't know. I don't know why you guys would be sending maple syrup to us, but, you know. Yeah, I thought we'd take your syrup. don't know.
00:16:44
Speaker
You guys like fake or worse syrup, but, you know, whatever. I'll i'll find i'll find some way. we We totally still have the fake stuff, but your guys' is fake stuff is way worse than ours. but But I do like to have the fake stuff of America when I am down there, just ah just to have it, you know? Like, sometimes you you get the worst thing just because you get the craving for it.
00:17:02
Speaker
That's my feelings on syrup there. Yeah. I mean, it's like when I get one or even one Taco Bell, like, because, like, I know that's like that's that's that's not Mexican food, but it's garbage that
Fast Food Prices and Taco Bell's Affordability
00:17:13
Speaker
fulfills a need. And well, what it's also it's also like the one fast food chain that has like still kept its prices low because like McDonald's, like yeah it's harder to even just, you know, have a meal for like ah five dollars or under. And like Taco Bell, you walk in with ten dollars. It's like you're like a king. There's like, hey, we we'll give you anything you want.
00:17:32
Speaker
You get the combo. You can get, like, extra items, like, on the side, you know. You can have, like, a meal for three just for yourself at Taco Bell for, like, 15 bucks or less, you know. Yeah. It's awesome.
00:17:43
Speaker
ah but The one thing I'll say about fast food, you know, before we move on, it just because shitty fast food. I really like Steak and Shake, and I hate that they've turned races, you know. like yeah Like, it was one of those things that, like, when it came out, I was just like,
00:17:57
Speaker
You know, why are they going with the administration on so many of these things? You know, I like to wait always so i feel like i saw it. I mean, it it kind of just like. I don't know, at least the times I've dined in the ones around here, you know, it is going for that 50s malt shop aesthetic. And but there is, yeah mean, it that kind of nostalgic piting is like inherently fashion, you know, basically of like, like, oh, can we just live and leave it to Beaver? You know, and it's like, well, no, because the off screen, a lot of bad shit happened.
00:18:35
Speaker
It wasn't good for everyone. Yeah, it's even worse. No, no, no. Wait, no. Cracker Barrel is worse still. Cracker Barrel is worse still. cra gris is always even earlier time Cracker annoying because that whole publicity stunt thing was like so fucking fake, ah calculated yeah outrage. and i The fact that conservatives fell, I mean, and I guess they're easy to bait. So like that smart marketing on their part of like, you'd be like, oh, we're going to change the logo. And i' like, y'all were my dead body, you will.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:12
Speaker
All of a sudden, people had these passionate feelings about Cracker Barrel. And for for me, like that was the the joke restaurant that like my family would go to every time on a vacation because it was like quintessentially American. Right.
00:19:26
Speaker
In our eyes as Canadians. Right. And now of this thing has happened. Right. i'm just like, I feel like they've been vindicated somehow. You know, like, like, it truly was the quintessential like, peg issue for some Americans.
00:19:38
Speaker
and And you're right, it was over inflated and stupid. But clearly, there were some people who cared really deeply about it It reminded me of when ah Marvel was like like, I don't know if we can make Spider-Man movies anymore because the mean old Sony is just going to like withhold the character. They made it sound like that there wasn't an inevitable deal they would hash out because it's profitable for both companies to keep making those movies. like Guys, I don't know. so Sony has all the power right now.
00:20:08
Speaker
Big power. We're just the little guys. I don't know.
00:20:15
Speaker
it's just It's just us little Disney. you know We just can't stand up to the Japanese tech giant that you know could just stop making movies tomorrow, but are only doing it because they have Spider-Man. you know Come on, get over yourselves. That's ridiculous.
00:20:31
Speaker
like Come on, we've seen their Spider-Man universe movies. like We know they need this. Just one battle after another. I'm trying to do like the amazing Spider-Man 2.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Just one Spider-Man after another. Nobody knows for sure. Andrew Garfield could have been in here and and he could have played, but playing because what race is he supposed to be in silence in the the Scorsese movie?
00:21:03
Speaker
Isn't he like Portuguese? Yeah, Portuguese. You're right. He's Portuguese. He should have been Portuguese. And he should he should have him play Portuguese in a movie like every few years. That this should be like an exchange program where it's like and I don't know. Then then you have a Hispanic actor play white.
00:21:21
Speaker
yeah I mean, they kind of do that already sometimes. I thought you were going to say that you wanted Andrew Garfield to be one of the ice guards, you know, because I feel like there's just imagining Andrew Garfield, you know. they they they Yeah, like with without going into this specific because we're still technically not spoilers. ah Like if there had been like a sub boss below Sean Penn, like, like you know, like how the villains have like a number two or something.
00:21:51
Speaker
uh that that would have been great for like an andrew garfield or our character or since he's starting to have a moment uh fucking i was about to call hod solo himself even though no one likes that solo movie it's up aaron reich is he oh yeah what did it work what what did it were so simple he he was too busy with weapons but he is matt and i And I want to say this, a like I said this earlier today, I want to say this on my, I do feel there are some similarities between one battle after another and weapons. And I think that it's very interesting that weapons, one battle after another and Eddington have come out this year.
00:22:31
Speaker
Cloud last year, right? Like there really is a really big shift in trying to be present in the now in terms of the making specifically in American context. But it feels like across the world, people are really coming to terms with that.
00:22:46
Speaker
And one thing that like we, we talked about with the box office question and to bring it more into like what the film is, i feel like, uh, you know, the, People have been feeling like crazy, I guess. not um like there There have been representations of specific kinds of people on screen for decades at this point, right?
00:23:08
Speaker
And when it comes to like the time period of now, right? like It feels like movies have always just kind of existed within a parallel universe where there was only bits of now.
00:23:20
Speaker
supplanted in them, right? Or it's like we're going have like this framework of an 80s or 90s rom-com ah we're going to bring in cell phones, you know, or like maybe this one will reference like
Modern Issues and Representation in Film
00:23:31
Speaker
incels offhandedly or, you know, like this one will be about like a Mexican family and they only reference what's happening like on the outskirts, right? Like, no, this is like actually talking about the problems as as they exist now, maybe like a slightly advanced version of what it could be.
00:23:50
Speaker
But considering how things are right now and how they are escalating, it may not be too far off. um the the The thing that's interesting about this movie is that it does a better job representing the now than any of those other films that came before ever did. Right. Even if they tried their best, you know, like will have a ah wide girth of perspectives.
00:24:12
Speaker
None of them have ever been so present in trying to understand the day to day. hardships right and i'm not saying that to over inflate pta i don't even think that he's the reason that that happens i think that sometimes it's all in the casting and it's all in the way it's framed and i think that the way that this film presents america while it is uh dowry uh i wanted to say this up front i feel of a large joy for life from pta similar to spike lee as we talked about on the highest to lowest
00:24:45
Speaker
firm I feel like this is a very joyful film. And while there's a lot of despair, it finds the gleam, the glowing parts that are worth seeking out. Absolutely. I think there's characters that embody that, like, we'll we'll get more the specifics with Benicio del Toro, but there's something about how he kind of is gliding through everything, even though...
00:25:06
Speaker
He is like, you know, like he just casually says, like, he's got a Mexican Harry Tubbett situation going on. Like, it's like he's dealing with some, like, heavy shit, but he's just coasting by. And, like, and ah ocean waves.
00:25:20
Speaker
The ocean waves. and Leo the literally just, like, exclaims at one point, life! You know, like, that it's like, but there is a joy for life in this. I agree. Yeah. It does. it It's not just like a funeral dirge of like ah America's fucked. We're fucked. It's like, no, I think it needs because in order the idea of revolution means that there needs to be something to fight for.
00:25:46
Speaker
And and what what are we fighting for if not? Love in life, you know, those things that are supposed to be, you know, the pursuit of happy, oh you know, all those things that are, yeah yeah you know, so supposedly are are guaranteed to us. But it's like if if you're going to fight for it, it needs to be a sense of that or it just it's like, what what are what are you doing then?
00:26:08
Speaker
yeah Well, luckily, Pursuit of Happiness is afforded to everybody. It's usually in the discounted DVD pile in Walmarts, you know, so everybody is. You can find it a family dollar. Yeah, yeah. It's it's yeah totally easily easy to find. It might be streaming for free somewhere.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, I would assume so. You know, everybody should be so entitled to watch Will Smith in that film because he does deliver quite a great performance. ah But the the the not just going to spoilers. Right. And I don't think this is really spoilers because you already brought up ah del Toro talking about him as like a Mexican harry and tubman.
00:26:44
Speaker
Right. yeah And I just the the idea of revolutionary action as this act of love and for this fight to protect. Right. ah He is probably the most politically like the most active politically active person in the film that we see.
00:27:00
Speaker
on the scale of empathy, right? And he doesn't make a big show of it, right? He just does the right thing and he's doing his thing and he doesn't really like make it anybody else's business. But when you are paying attention to his orchestration and like his...
00:27:16
Speaker
Well, like what he's got going on, right? You realize that he is in control of something that's way bigger than any one person should be doing, right? But he's doing it out of the kindness of himself. And in order for any kind of real change to happen, there needs to be a million people like him to push that cause forward, right?
00:27:35
Speaker
And when we think about like, you know, how people talk about our times at this current moment, right? There's a lot of doomerism, right? It's like, all these things have gone too far, right? And they're out of our hands. But really what happened, right?
00:27:49
Speaker
Nobody cared enough. Everyone just kind of handed it it all over. Right. And now they're seeing the repercussions of handing it over. Right. And we're this film is almost like the perfect like buyer's remorse pill to give people.
Revolution as an Act of Love
00:28:05
Speaker
Right. Yeah. To show them that like the act of fighting back, the act of rebelling against the system.
00:28:11
Speaker
is not being like some whiny baby. It's not like fighting against what America is, right? It's literally just helping your neighbor, which in theory is the most American and Christian thing you could do, right?
00:28:25
Speaker
So like it really is a film that It's recenters the argument where we spent so many decades turning politics into this bad word where people avoid it because ah it brings up this idea of like tough to talk about issues.
00:28:42
Speaker
This still makes it very clear that like it's very easy to be on the side of the person who's saving women and children. Right. That's what this all really boils down to. Well, well said. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
And it it it does so without... i in In my opinion, like it's not like overly preachy. It is a woke movie, but you know it's not... ah It's kind of just presenting the facts of the matter and like ah it the politics informs the characters in the world, but... like No one's really stopping to like tell you how you should feel or walk away from it. I mean, hopefully people do walk. Hopefully we end up with a lot more Benicio del Toro's.
00:29:24
Speaker
People are inspired to, you know, have that mindset. But ah it it's not it's not trying to like be like, no, this is what you need to do. This is like a a ah roadmap because it also depicts in the movie itself of like people who are well intentioned maybe at one point had a more ignited revolutionary spirit who maybe lost sight of that and like in like kind of need that rekindled and need to be refocused and and that that I mean
00:29:58
Speaker
There's a lot of people that whether that's like just wow disenfranchised young people who, you know, were but put a lot of stock in the the Bernie or progressive movement or something. or And, you know, that fell apart. And you're like, well, what's the point then? Because, you know, the corporate politics is never it's just going to be a death spiral towards more of this shit. Right. But it's like, well, no, it didn't work through that venue. But.
00:30:23
Speaker
there's other ways and maybe we should keep trying because there's something worth fighting for here. Well, it's the title of the movie, right? It's one battle after the ah another, right? And the concept of revolution itself is not so much to like get to this one place where everything is perfect utopia now, right?
00:30:41
Speaker
the the The question of revolution is to overthrow unjustified hierarchies that instill, you know, cruelty within society, right? To to maintain and employ supremacy, right? This film makes that very clear that this is like the enemy is white supremacy, right?
00:30:59
Speaker
yeah And while we're going to get into how like woke this movie is in quotations, right? As I've already said, it's not really specific in its, you know, theory and like what It's actually standing for which you could ding this movie on.
00:31:14
Speaker
Like there are specific references to like the revolution will not be televised. Right. um But all that stuff happens like way early on. And as the film goes along, it makes it so much more color that it's more about personal stakes. Right.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I think that that's the positive that's a positive for the film, because like I was saying before, it's a lot more. easy for an audience to just plainly care when you put it down to just like the facts of the matter, right? Where it's like you've got like a 16-year-old girl handcuffed somewhere.
00:31:46
Speaker
Are you going save her or not? Right? Right. Like when you put it down to that... right You don't have to have read Marx to like understand like the emotional stakes. Like you said, this at the end of the day, it's just about caring about... It's about giving a shit.
00:32:00
Speaker
And that's that's like a lot of good films this year have... Like we we talked about The Long Walk. that A lot of that is about like, yeah, this world is ugly and the horrific, but...
00:32:12
Speaker
there's still, you know, beauty here to find. There's still something worth like living for in it. And ah this movie is pausing like, yeah, not only is it worth worth living for, it's worth fighting for. Well, the the long walk, it ends with the guy just continuing to walk. Right. The implication is that life may still be cruel going forward, but at least there is finding peace in that moment, in that time and reckoning reckoning with what that will so and mean with them for the rest of their lives. Right. And one battle after another is very similarly in that vein. Right. What's like
00:32:47
Speaker
like I was saying earlier, you know, like there there may never be a point where there we achieve like some great utopia where everyone is treated equally, right? but and and And that itself ah doesn't mean you should stop fighting, right?
00:33:01
Speaker
It's the act and the action of fighting itself that is the declaration of love. And it's the it's the attempt at making the world a better place, no matter how it gets twisted later on and in your life. Right.
00:33:15
Speaker
It's the ownership of your intent. Right. And it's how you're you are able to a live with yourself and be remembered. Right. and and And it's a really.
00:33:27
Speaker
Oh, man. Like, yeah I don't want spoil or anything, but it's just like when it gets into that stuff, it's like really powerful. and and And there are specific characters, the way that they play with that stuff. While I view the film more as like very lived up, like I wouldn't say it's like a very like leftist or, you know, it's a very liberal movie still. Right.
00:33:45
Speaker
um At the end of the day, what it's doing with the characters themselves as individuals and the thorny ah motivations that they have, how they follow those arcs to their logical conclusions.
00:33:57
Speaker
It's a cut above. i use that phrase a lot on this podcast, but this movie truly is a cut above what every other movie is trying to do in terms of relating to the current moment.
Optimal Viewing Formats for the Film
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:08
Speaker
Agreed on all fronts. So I think with that, I mean, i you if it's not clear, go see this movie if you already weren't going to see it. See it on a, you know, around around me there was only like one night to see it and in VistaVision, which I think seeing it in other formats is perfectly, but you like if you've got 70mm, I saw it on IMAX, you know, there's there's a whole...
00:34:33
Speaker
the video they kind of leaned into it similar to sinners of like hey here's the breakdown of the formats and I think even the non-film nerds like can that like but I mean it's just useful knowledge to have too because I myself was like well if I can't do VistaVision what it would be like the closest format to that and like oh okay I can do 70 millimeter on IMAX so that you know will get me kind of there and However you can see it, just, you know go see it. You saw it at IMAX, 70 millimeter. Did I get it right or...
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, I did the same. i Like, just before we even get into the movie, because we're reaching into spoilers, but, like, but go how tall the screen was, right? And every time we got, like, a shot where during the, like, last stretch of the movie where it's just, like, roads, right?
00:35:22
Speaker
Whenever they would just be, like, the top of the screen was the top of the, like, hill, and the bottom of the screen was just the bottom of the hill road, right? And it was definitely, like, a flat line, right?
00:35:35
Speaker
It just took my breath away every time, you know, like, like in Oppenheimer, I felt like what was so great about that film's IMAX presentation was you just got like thrust into the headspace of somebody. Right. And this one, it was about the landscapes. It was about like how full the image was when it was in a wide.
00:35:53
Speaker
Right. And that's like just a great jumping off point for this whole film. This movie does not waste any of its budget, like its its scope is massive, right?
00:36:04
Speaker
You feel like you are in the middle of this massive epic. And and this movie really is an epic. mean, I would even go as far as say it's a Western epic. like yeah ah Because we'll get into specifics of, I mean, like, yes, it has that aesthetic and you're spending a lot of time in the California deserts, but it also traffics in a lot of those themes. And i mean,
00:36:29
Speaker
You know, sure, there there's a whole history of like how before even get to revisionist Westerns of how those dealt with the, you know, themes of colonialism or even, you know, there' there's often Mexicans with unflattering depictions in a lot of, you know, or early Westerns and things like that.
00:36:47
Speaker
So this this I mean, this is almost like a. ah a revisionist revisionist Western. Like, we're, like, we're, like, a couple yeah steps removed from from, like, the revisionist Western. We're, like, further deconstructing that through a modern, like, like and so while tackling, through through tackling these political concepts and truths that it's, like, okay, how does that reframe what we know ah of the Western? and But it also ah has those kind of ideas and, like, how there's... Because there are clear...
00:37:21
Speaker
good and evils in in this movie just like you know in the world now there's some very unambiguous evils ah but there's also traffics in that idea of like ah westerns will often have like a kind of great morality of like Someone may be doing unsavory things, but they they have like a limit, you know, like we'll get there's like a very specific character who's like, no, I don't cross that this line, you know, like I don't I don't do this. And and that's like a very Western idea to so me. Like i I associate that those kind of characters with Westerns.
Character Motivations and Personal Relationships
00:37:56
Speaker
well Well, I think that like a great way to answer this conversation is an interesting thing I noticed like that was like a repeated thing throughout this entire film. So like there are many sequences are like a revolutionary character is taken into the police. Right.
00:38:13
Speaker
And but every time that they are in there. Right. They they cave every single one of them cave and it's only because ah there is somebody who is close to them that they're afraid of hurting like every time any one of them like sell somebody else out it's because like there is close family relationship that could be jet taxed right.
00:38:33
Speaker
And that's what it's really getting down to, where it's like the politics themselves are important for these people. But ultimately, the thing that's motivating them is other people. Right. And they yeah when they someone turns rat or sells someone else out, they're doing it out of.
00:38:49
Speaker
love for it's not just a self-preservation save my own ass because yeah once you reach a certain point of you know the kind of revolution these characters are engaging of you kind of do have to disregard some kind of sense of self or self-preservation force whitaker's great monologue and in the last season of andor's like you have to be crazy to do revolution like that that that's it's ah like in an inherently not logical, you know, like that's like our base thing as as living organisms is to preserve ourselves and propagate. So you almost have to override that. Like, no, what happens to me is not the most important thing. But there is still
00:39:31
Speaker
you you can't help but feel for like you can't turn off those emotions for your family or loved ones. And it's like those become vulnerable points that someone with no scruples will easily manipulate because it's like, yeah, they don't give a shit. They'll go after your family to get you.
00:39:46
Speaker
And I think this is an excellent point to just start talking about like Probably my favorite performance in the film. Probably my favorite character in this film. And also just like one of the best written characters I've seen in a long time. Deanna Taylor, right? We got to talk about what's going on with her, right?
00:40:04
Speaker
Because like she, she like, Come on. Round of applause, everybody. If you're listening to this at home, I want you to stop this podcast, right? Just give her ah a round of applause, right? She's incredible in this movie.
00:40:16
Speaker
And also what PTA gives her is incredible, right? Like, ah front to back, like, I love what they're doing with this character. And bringing it back to what we were just saying, right? Like, before we even get into it, right? Like, just I'm going to throw the question to you. Like, do you, like...
00:40:30
Speaker
think she made the right decision in what she did? Or do you, like, have some thorny thoughts it? I have my own thoughts, but I just want to, like, throw it to you and hear what you have to say. I think the movie is...
00:40:42
Speaker
fine with letting you live in some kind of thorniness of like letting you like you can draw conclusions and understand why perfidia does what she does but then also it's a truth that her family kind of has to the live with too of like because even or even if you know they're proceeding with the knowledge of like oh you know she sold out these other ah members of of the the French 75 just, you know, did she want to protect her family also, you know, save herself.
00:41:18
Speaker
It's like you are selling out the movement you are a rat, but I, what other options do you have at that point? And it's just, uh, uh, uh,
00:41:33
Speaker
not a bunch of not good options like i feel like that's even said during one of the interrogations to someone else i think when they get regina hall it's like it's like lose-lose situation here from ah like there's no scenario where you can walk away from this winning i mean you could argue that she gets it perfidia ends up in this predicament because she maybe starts to become adrift and uh you know like I think kind of reasonably is dealing with some complex emotions after the you know, the birth of her child that, uh, she's maybe taking risks doing things she wouldn't normally do. I mean, cause I think we're supposed to understand, you know, we're seeing a lot of that stuff through montage, but i think we're meant to understand when she, ah kills that guard, the bank, that's not the, their normal m MO, uh, you know, they're, they're just there for the money. And also,
00:42:27
Speaker
once you escalate it to murder, then that's like, you know, you have so much more heat. on I mean, I've i've seen heat. I know what it means once you add a murder rap to the bank robbery. So i I think they all would have preferred to get out of there without hurting anybody. And just also...
00:42:45
Speaker
yeah none of them got into into that to hurt people but you could ah you get a sense of because it's not as straightforward as just saying she's like an adrenaline junkie you know there's the funny part where she like wants the to to fuck leo as the bombs going off like Yes, she is getting off on that.
00:43:04
Speaker
Like even when he's describing the bomb itself, she's like getting turned on and it's almost like she is a bomb, you know, like she that that that's it's like it's kind of that that's her attraction to it is like that that that is her. Yeah.
00:43:20
Speaker
But I think it's she she's getting off on that stuff for in the same kind of for the same reasons that you would want to join a revolution, because it's like the the her whole thing with Sean Penn is like an inversion of that power dynamic of like what it would know, you know, like the current the white colonel tells the black subordinate what to do and is the one in charge calling the shots.
00:43:47
Speaker
So her doming him is it's it's not just like the adrenaline of that, but it's all it's like that. This is I wanted to invert these power structures. That's why you did are do revolutionary accents. Like I'm doing that on a smaller scale here with him now. Like that that I've I've I've turned the whole dynamic on its head until a certain point because it kind of blows up in her face that, you know, and then until she's not the one in charge.
00:44:15
Speaker
Well, that's that's the interesting thing to drill in here, right, is obviously her relationship with Lockjaw complicates this whole film. Right. But like it it starts with DiCaprio. Right. Where she the thing is, is like her character was motivated by just fucking shit up.
00:44:30
Speaker
Right. She is a true like revolutionary in every sense where she just does not ascribe to any kind of hierarchy. She lives for herself. Right. She is a very personally motivated person. Right. It's a total emancipation.
00:44:43
Speaker
Right. And when it comes to her growing connection with DiCaprio, like we enter the film in ah in media res where we kind of know that there is a bubbling relationship there.
00:44:53
Speaker
Right. And it starts to be an official thing at the start of the film. But it's also at the same time the film opens with the start of her relationship with Lockjaw. Right. So our question really is, is like, are we starting this film with just the start of her connection with Lockjaw and rather than the start of the real connection with DiCaprio?
00:45:13
Speaker
And I say this because. Her whole undoing of her and DiCaprio's relationship. is in effect like her rebelling against the patriarchy in her own way, right?
00:45:26
Speaker
Where, you know, she sees that she's slowly being slotted into like ah a mother and wife role, right? And her being with Lockheed Out is her having like some kind of autonomy over that where she's able to dom this other guy and to have control over that, right?
00:45:41
Speaker
And the problem is is that she can't stretch herself in all of these different ways. She can't also dom this like... literal sergeant that they've been fucking over constantly on their missions while also like fathering like a mothering her own child, you know, on the side with the revolution in that sense. Right. It all has to come to a head where she all of her ideologies conflict too much.
00:46:04
Speaker
Right. And ah it's it's really heartbreaking, you know, because she is kind of selfish, you know, like she she. But at the same time, like you understand her. Right. And it we're in spoilers so we can say. it Right. So it's like, yeah, she definitely knew that that kid was not Leo's.
00:46:23
Speaker
Right. And she knew that like like she she was almost like. angry that leo cared so much about this kid that she didn't really care about she was drinking while having the kid right she was firing the gun while she was pregnant she she really didn't care about this child right and again it's because she doesn't want to be held down as the label his mother obviously she doesn't want to be held down by the label of uh you know a wife ah but then also there is this connection to this horrible story
00:46:55
Speaker
like racist surgeon that she was with. Yeah. Hearing a white supremacist child is not something a revolutionary person would want, but it's also if she, I mean, someone of that persuasion, ah you know, be like,
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah, so she probably had you know, she would have no qualms with having that pregnancy terminated. But then that would be an acknowledgement of where the child came. Like, I don't think because like she kind of just wants to ignore that. And then that's why, you know, she's drinking and doing everything as as normal, because if you then terminate the pregnancy, then that's ah another. egg now Even if you're getting rid of the child, then you have to acknowledge of like.
00:47:36
Speaker
what you just did ah in terms like oh okay i did i lose the thread here in trying to to don lock jaw because he impregnated me like i she she obviously that was not her plan to to get pregnant by him she's not a semen demon who was trying to if she is she is no semen demon we want to get that on the record She wanted to steal his power.
00:48:02
Speaker
yeah But ah it goes it goes to like the Regina Hall character and and her own mother. Right. Like her own mother is like, what are you going to do about this baby? Right. And like when I was watching the trailer, right, like I was imagining that maybe like DiCaprio needed to step up.
00:48:18
Speaker
But in reality, it was like. Deonna Taylor was going to be out the door regardless, right? Like, she she was never going to be a mother, right? And, like, while this is a character flaw of hers, you know, in some regards, right, it's also who she is, right? And the...
00:48:37
Speaker
The fantasy of DiCaprio thinking that she would be that kind of person is, you know, pie in the sky, right? it's It's not as pie in the sky as like Lockjaw's fantasy that he's going to like to put her into witness protection and then be like her husband, right? Like is completely in the clouds, right? but But the reality is is that DiCaprio and Lockjaw are just like two sides of a different kind of coin in terms of like their expectations of women, right? Right.
00:49:06
Speaker
And so while she is ultimately going down the selfish route in the end of her arc, right, ah it's still in pursuit of maintaining her own autonomy, right?
00:49:17
Speaker
it She's reallyly rejecting both of those. Like you said, they're two sides of the same coin. She's like, i will not participate and also just logistically fleeing to, you know, we see her, you know, going to Mexico and then later they allude to like, yeah, she's maybe like in Cuba somewhere. Like she will just have to be on the run forever, you know, like, cause she's like fled from, from witness protection. So that's, that's just the fact of the matter of what she has to do now. But, uh,
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's I thought about that ah because like they don't Leo and Sean Penn don't share a ton of seats. There's like the one moment before the jump where he like he Leo's in line at the store and then he has that moment where it's... Sean Penn's performance is so fascinating because...
00:50:07
Speaker
Oh, yes, he's pathetically funny. But then it's also unsettling in the same bread. Almost. three i mean, not not a one for one, but I thought about how, you know, Heath Ledger's Joker ah is is a very, very fun like i i'm laughing at a lot of the stuff he's doing but he's also legitimately terrifying uh um i'd say sean penn locked lockjaw is way more pathetic than that but but that that moment when he approaches leo in the supermarket is scary where he's like do you like black women i i fucking love them and like you see him leo's eyes is like he is that because i you know he he
00:50:49
Speaker
wasn't aware of to the extent of what she was doing with lockjaw but i ah presume that he knows who that is by reputation and the fact that this guy came up to him and said that is like oh shit okay and as so that's And asked about the child first.
00:51:08
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And it's also important to note. It's important to note that DiCaprio never gets told in this film directly that Lockjaw is the
DiCaprio's Character and Motivations
00:51:16
Speaker
parent. Right. But the question always remains, like, does he ever know?
00:51:20
Speaker
Right. Did he need to have that confirmation? Right. Did he? Yeah. Did he already know that Lockjaw was the the dad and that all of this was going this direction? And it just didn't matter to him. He was going to raise this child no matter what.
00:51:33
Speaker
I think part of him did know and ah or even if he did have that explicitly confirmed, like that wouldn't change anything for him. That's that's his daughter. Like, ah i I think that's part part of the reason that he's, you know, in his mind shielded ah ah her, for you know, shielded Willa or or Charlene from this, uh, this truth about her mother, like told her that she, you know, died a hero and and didn't say that, you know, she was a witness protection. She was a rat. She sold out, you know, she got her brothers in arms killed, you know, basically, ah is it because he just kind of he would also rather just remember her that way.
00:52:13
Speaker
uh, ah Even if he does know deep down that that's, you know, Lockjaw's child, it's it's just he's choosing to accept the more wholesome narrative, I think, of just like, yeah, I mean, I love her, so she's my child. And that's the only thing that matters. Mm hmm.
00:52:33
Speaker
Well, well what's what's the motivating factor behind the whole Lockjaw affair, right? Really, it comes down to impulse, right? Because, like, she didn't need to go to the hotel.
00:52:43
Speaker
She didn't need to, like, because, like, he threatened her with, like, you know... attacking or whatever. He makes an offhanded remark about that at one point. right I don't believe him.
00:52:55
Speaker
right like I feel like he is truly the pathetic type where he would lord that kind of threat over her and never really follow through. right He is just... He's so seemss so impotent.
00:53:07
Speaker
yeah like He can't even... When he needs to... you know we'll we'll We'll get into the whole ah ah Christmas cult, ah the the Christmas adventurers, but...
00:53:17
Speaker
You know, he needs to basically to join the ranks of this white supremacist cabal, kill his mixed race daughter. he will not do that himself because he is a coward, you know, like he will pawn this task off on someone else because that's just.
00:53:34
Speaker
He says he's I think the reason he gives the bounty hunter is like, I'm busy or something. He's like, I don't have time to do that. But it's like, no, he's a coward. He will not do that. He is just like this. The most stupid piece of shit put on screen in a long time. And and like, i I really want to get into him soon. But I just really wanted to drill into all this stuff, you know, Taylor, because her motivations are so interesting because they are so, you know, of the moment.
00:54:00
Speaker
in my eyes. Right. And, and to kind of wrap it back around to what we were saying, ah you were saying earlier about like her going to Cuba, right. We never get like a moment where she's redeemed. We never get a moment where so she like reappears in the film and the climax to save everybody. Right.
00:54:16
Speaker
We don't get like some tearful reunion with her, ah you know, embracing her daughter. Right. All we get is a letter that was written two years prior shown to her, right? Shown to the to Willa, right?
00:54:30
Speaker
And it's it's this illusion that, like, while she, while Teyana Taylor's character attempted so hard to change the world, she was unsuccessful, right?
00:54:41
Speaker
Because she let her own stuff get in the way, right? And it it got in the way of, like, you know, seeing what was important. Right. And she thought that the revolution was only the action. Right.
00:54:53
Speaker
She didn't realize she lost sight of what the fight for literally. Right. So it's it's a really interesting character because while she is ah suffering from this fatal flaw, she is the thing that inspires everybody to do all of this good.
00:55:07
Speaker
Right. right through her fire and her mistakes, right? That people choose to remember the best parts of her and try to make up for what she has done wrong in the past, right?
00:55:18
Speaker
It's why her character is so, you know, effective for me, ah not just as, like, in the moment, but, like, how she resonates throughout the rest of the film. And then, so we can crack into Sean Penn, because I could feel you itching to talk about him, right?
00:55:32
Speaker
he He is, like, the stupidest character Like, I love him and how stupid he is. and And Sean Penn is kind of brilliant for how he portrays him. He he he feels like a Jerry Lewis character.
00:55:45
Speaker
So how is absurd and and over the top he is. and And honestly, the closest analog I could really compare him to is like any of the Peter Sellers characters from ah ah Dr. Strangelove.
00:55:58
Speaker
He he's just feels like he's in that kind of mood of a mode, you know? ah he He is he is somebody who or ah maybe even a little bit of George C. Scott from Dr. Strangelove, I'd also say.
00:56:13
Speaker
i mean, that movie is filled with idiots, but like, you know, like that he's almost kind of like rolling up several of those it into like one. a super racist, inept guy. it's It's that this world is really dire. it These are really so real stakes that are impacting like the most at-danger people in society American society, right?
00:56:36
Speaker
And he's just the biggest idiot, right? and And what that's doing is is just being like, the people who are in charge are this dumb. And and they they are only in these positions because of their cruelty, not because of their tact, right?
00:56:50
Speaker
And, you know, it's also about how um they they so desperately want to be respected that they lie about what makes them happy. Right. Because, like, as you said, in the supermarket scene, he loves black women. Right.
00:57:05
Speaker
But the problem is, is that he cannot be open with his love of black women. Right. And that eats away with him at all times. And yeah, like, why does he want to join the Christmas adventurers other than as a status thing or some kind of validation? If he legitimately but because I it is the fetishization of black bodies, black women. But like I think.
00:57:30
Speaker
He I think, you know, you allude to earlier, like he has this fantasy of like because when when she's in witness protection in the day she disappears, he's bringing flowers. So, like, I think it's more than just a physical thing for him that he's like, oh, we have in love. Like, we're going to like, you know, be like fucking Ozzie and Harriet or something like a fucking twisted witness protection version of that.
00:57:51
Speaker
But ah so it's. If you just judge genuinely have those feelings, why are you pro white supremacy? i mean, it's it's like highlighting that that cognitive dissonance of like, like, you don't need to do this.
00:58:09
Speaker
man i be Like, this is all all forced. So desperately wants to be accepted by, like, grand society. Right. He wants to be seen as, like, successful American.
00:58:21
Speaker
Right. And in the pursuit of doing that, he needs to like as America is a white supremacist nation in many ways. Right. Like it has. Right. that in it, like its history and how it plays out in today's society, right?
00:58:35
Speaker
ah It is a country that is founded on those things. And in order for him to be successful and be in this Christmas adventures club, he needs to do that. The reality is, is that's not how somebody is happy, right? It's just like fulfilling the needs of like decades old racism in order to for for for their happiness, right? Not for His happiness, his happiness is, you know, going off with her and, you know, he would never join the Christmas Adventurers Club and that would be that, right? He would have found fulfillment there, right?
00:59:06
Speaker
But the problem is, is that because he doesn't have the fulfillment and because he feels like he suffered this great indignity, he harbors that and channels it into this massively hateful direction, right?
00:59:19
Speaker
And what that serves as is is a massive commentary on conservatives themselves and where they're hateful. like stems from, right? And that's where this film's political commentary gets like really interesting because it's just talking about how these hateful people are basing their ah ideologies more in their insecurities than in any kind of real world beliefs.
Gen X and Political Absence in Films
00:59:41
Speaker
Because it's it's telling that he carries himself with the energy of cuck, even though he's the what he is cucked Leo. you know like He impregnated Leo's yeah woman, and but he is still feel like when when when he's watching them and he sees Leo grab her ass, you you see how like deflated that makes him feel.
01:00:02
Speaker
of like ah he's like, oh, I'm not the one who's actually bringing her joy, I'm just like a plaything or something, then he that's like...
01:00:13
Speaker
That thought destroy is so destructive to him that, you know, he even needs to to say to Leo later, like, are or about Leo that, like, you know, he could never please her the way I could, even though it's like, no, that, that shit you know, the love was with Leo, even though you're the one, the father of the child, that that you were never going to be a part of that in any real way. hmm.
01:00:37
Speaker
And like it's just in his mannerisms. It's just in the way that he carries himself from scene to scene. Right. Like I heard someone compare him to Vince McMahon. Like you see that at all? Right. The way he walks. Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:51
Speaker
It's like his arms are always like coming up. his He's doing this like knee thing where his knees are kind of buckling under every step. Right. And ah the he's got all these like bits.
01:01:02
Speaker
Right. Like when he goes in to find out that he's been abandoned. Right. Like he first brings a bouquet of flowers. Right. He checks the door. Right. The door is locked.
01:01:13
Speaker
He goes to the back of his car, brings out a battering ram and just boom. Right. Yeah. and and And that's his entire character, right? Where it's like, it's all the facade of caring, right? But he does not waste a moment to, like, enforce the power of the state on people if he can't get what he wants, right?
01:01:30
Speaker
It's the perfect representation of just, like, the complete... ah Uh, uh, privileged white guy, you know, who thinks that everything should be handed to him, but it's because he is such an insufferable, uh, you know, ah insecure prick, you know, nobody likes him.
01:01:47
Speaker
Right. And it's, it's that thing that he has to struggle with at all times. It's like, he can get as many medals as he wants from the government. Nobody's going to like actually hang out with him and have a beer. I mean, and those victories were basically handed. If Perfidia didn't turn witness, he wouldn't, you know, have been able... Like, he's he's getting those medals for executing, you know, members of the French 75, which he wouldn't have been able to do without but her. So it's like, those aren't even really his victories, but he's the one who gets the medals for them.
01:02:18
Speaker
and But it's it's like, he's done nothing. Yeah, like, he he shoots a lot of aim, but it's, how dare you? Like... fucking evil man. Lana Haym making no impression in this movie beyond like looks, which I was surprised by. I thought that she would have had like a few lines of dialogue that was suck out or something. She, she is a pretty non-presence in this film.
01:02:40
Speaker
Up front though, we got to talk about Jungle Pussy's monologue because like she steals the movie for a bit. um I want a Jungle Pussy spin-off. I need to listen to her music because apparently that's like you ah like her rapper like handle. and and yeah i wanted i would I'll listen to several Jungle Pussy albums. I mean, maybe just make a Jungle Pussy musical or something.
01:03:05
Speaker
i they I jokingly made a post yesterday where I was like, she's kind of the Alfred Molina of the film in a way where as I like performance, it I mean, they they come at very different point. Alfred Molina is at the very end of Boogie Nights, but it's like a one scene performance where you're kind of like just holding on one character go off.
01:03:28
Speaker
And while the tension around them starts to build before exploding, like that, like, like, so she's fulfilling that role there because uh you know and then tiana taylor i guess who you know would be the the firecrackers or you know like that that that she's about to go off and you you're waiting for that to happen but you're meanwhile you're holding on jungle pussy and and i've yeah i i was enraptured with every word she was saying thank Well, also, like she is taking complete ownership in that sequence, right? Like she is saying, like, I am jungle pussy. Like, look at like my power. Right. Like you are going to listen to me. Right.
01:04:04
Speaker
And then she's robbed of that power by the mistake of one of her cohorts. Right. And that central mistake is the cons is the undoing of the entire revolution, really, from From everybody on that yeah job's perspective, right?
01:04:19
Speaker
it's it's It's both this, like, incredibly empowering monologue where you're able to, like, see this performer just lay it all out there just based on her talent and the writing of the dialogue.
01:04:29
Speaker
But then there's this tragic irony where she is, ah like, in her element, right? And it's robbed from her, from from somebody that she saw as her friend, right? She was the one that was laughing with Teyana Taylor.
01:04:41
Speaker
ah when she was pregnant, drunk, ah right? In campfire. and And also just a separate thing, right? Like something I really like about this movie is for whatever reason, a lot of these revolutionaries are singers, you know, like artists, right? Like yeah Jungle Pussy, as we've already talked about.
01:04:57
Speaker
ah Tiana Taylor, right, is a musician first before or and an actor, right? And then Dijon, right? The guy that ah DiCaprio calls later in the film to like, ah you know, find out the rendezvous point. Yeah.
01:05:11
Speaker
He's an R&B singer, right? I don't know why PTA stuffed a bunch of, like, artists at the start of this film, but I do like it when you have, like, these different kinds of performers that just appear in a film, especially from a prestige director like this.
01:05:28
Speaker
um And also just, like, but going back to Tiana Taylor a bit, you know, I've liked her music, but I feel like she is a great actress. and I'm glad that she has made that transition. i feel i feel like like acting on the screen.
01:05:43
Speaker
i really like how she's developed into that realm. I like her music, though. At the same time, i feel like she's in her element here. I mean, yeah, ah it's just an undeniable screen presence. And I hope that she gets so much more like meaty roles like this as as ah as a result. But ah to what you're saying about Jungle Pussy's like power getting robbed in the same moment that she's being empowered.
01:06:07
Speaker
i think the movie is bit because ah full disclosure, I haven't read ah Vineland. I kind of he know checked out from the library and I intentionally was like, I kind of want to just see the mut movie too. I'm going to read it ah because I am interested in like I know they're very they're very different texts, but like because the book takes place in like 1984.
01:06:30
Speaker
And that, to my understanding, is kind of like how. the the boomers kind of failed, you know, and and that this is the world they got from that.
01:06:40
Speaker
But this is almost, this movie is kind of showing like, oh, well, Gen X, they had, the or at any revolutionary spirit they had was kind of ah smothered out of them and they dropped the ball. And now it's, you know, the bucks being passed to the next gen. Well, this is like one of the heart,
01:07:00
Speaker
keystones of this film and also just like in general, right? Because also let's take a step back for a second. What is the age bracket of the directors who've been making films of the past like 10, 15 years?
01:07:11
Speaker
Gen Xers, right? Yeah. What are were we talking about earlier about like filmmakers who have been, you know, absent from making political statements in their movies? Gen Xers, right?
01:07:23
Speaker
What is the largest demographic in terms of support for Donald Trump? he Gen Xers. So this is what i'm getting at here, where it's like there was a an underswell when a generation was younger ah to be against the system, right?
01:07:41
Speaker
And then they sold out, right? But then they sold out, right? And now selling out is cool, right? like that but That's what happened, right? and And there are people who look back on NX with rose-tinted glasses where they're like, they really stuck it to the man, man.
01:07:55
Speaker
I've seen pump up the volume, I know. You know, but the reality is, is that, like, they didn't accomplish anything and and they really failed. Right. Boomers were more anti fascist because they actually like had family members who fought against fascism. Right. Like, this is the generation that was poisoned by lead and only knew about it from like their grandparents who they saw as over the hill. Right. Right.
01:08:21
Speaker
They were removed from actual like struggle, right? From ah in a meaningful way. And they were able to reap the rewards in a very neoliberal way. And then they had children and then they blamed them for what they did.
01:08:36
Speaker
are you damn millennials. Right. And Gen Z and all of that. Right. Like they're still doing that where they're just mad at the younger generations. Gen X is the source for a lot of those things.
01:08:48
Speaker
So I think that the way that this film is like framing this as like the Gen X generation specifics failed. Right. Is so important because it's actually talking about like how filmmaking itself has failed.
01:09:01
Speaker
Gen meeting this moment. It's also talking about how that PTA's generation but just failed at trying to, you know, fight back against the rising tide of fascism at every point.
01:09:14
Speaker
And now we're at the point where it's too late and they need to wake the fuck up. and and And this is kind of going more into like the Bob Ferguson standpoint of like his arc.
01:09:24
Speaker
Right. He doesn't actually have an active role. part in the plot what matters more is his own recognition of like he is checking out out of grief for his loss of tiano taylor was really selfish and got in the way of him actually like changing the world for the better it got in the way of it of him and Doing anything revolutionary and it also got in the way of him being a father to his daughter, which, you know, as we were saying at the top, love is like one of the most revolutionary acts. And so he is kind of stifled in his way to express that because he's just been like ah pushed down by by by this grief.
01:10:07
Speaker
And, yeah, it's it's interesting because, like, you you had said that him and Lockjaw or are two sides of the same coin. You you see that, like, but you know, he's a leftist revolutionary and he has, you know, his heart's in the right place. Like, that funny scene where goes to the school and he's, like, maybe like you teach ner teaching them the right history, right? You know, like, looking around the room at all the, like, the president. But what happened in Philippines? Like, yeah.
01:10:34
Speaker
Yeah. He sees Benjamin Franklin's like, oh, slave owner, you know, fucking slave owners everywhere. But he also talks to his daughter's Hispanic friend, very racist, you know, like he's he's like a hypocrite, you know, like he in his mind, he's doing this out of some, you know.
01:10:54
Speaker
ah ah overprotective dad a dad thing of like he needs to you know be monitoring everything in her life and because that that could be a point of infiltration or or so or some kind of vulnerability but you don't have to be called the kid essay and talking to like down to him in that way to do that like that that that's you know, he's kind of, you know, he's lost his revolutionary spirit, but he's also kind of lost the thread of like, hey, but you what do you actually believe that if you're going to like be be talking to this kid this way? It raps back into like this idea that he had taught his daughter that like his, her mother was this hero, right? Which ah in terms of giving her like an upbringing, right?
01:11:37
Speaker
He did a fantastic job, right? In terms of like, you know, her being well adjusted, she is a really bright kid, right? And he he taught her the right things to where she can carry her herself on her own and all that stuff. Right.
01:11:49
Speaker
The problem is that he shielded her from ideology. He shielded her from like actually interacting with the world in a meaningful way. And that's the tension that she is bracing with, where she feels out of step with time.
01:12:03
Speaker
She feels like she is of the past more than of the present. Right. And when when we are introduced to these friends, they're of the moment in many ways. You you brought up, you know, like she's got ah a Mexican friend, but then also like non-binary friend.
01:12:19
Speaker
And like he makes a big deal of the pronouns. And you think to yourself, like, how many times has he had this conversation? Right. How many times has he had to go through like the whole they them thing? Right. And it's like with these people, it's actually very easy to understand this concept. Right.
01:12:34
Speaker
But it's not that they can't. wrap their head around it because it's so confusing. It's because they just don't have the respect, right? Because it's new to them, right? So it's a... It's an interesting point to look at him because like you're saying, right...
01:12:51
Speaker
He used to be a revolutionary, but he didn't continue to grow. he just was a revolutionary in like the 2000s and didn't evolve his worldview beyond that. Then now his ah revolutionary perspective is actually rather exclusive, reactionary even, right?
01:13:08
Speaker
But it's in his relationship with Sergio that he's able to open up more. And I can't wait the end to get into Del Toro because he's amazing. But DiCaprio, I got to say, like, this this is probably, like, his best performance, like, since Killers of the Flower Moon.
01:13:22
Speaker
Killers the Flower Moon is still probably, like, his best work, period. But, like, the the stretch he's in now is the best he's been, period, in my books. Yeah, it's it's a phenomenal performance. And, I mean, not to... the Killers of the Flower Moon, he he's completely stripped of all charm.
01:13:42
Speaker
Like, even ah even as a loser stoner, like, he still has some some Leo so swagger in him. But it is... He does have to... it's It's a performance removed of ego in the sense that, you know, Bob kind of just doesn't do any... Like you said, like, the... the the the victories he makes in his arc ah it's it's internal stuff it's everyone else around him who are doing everything like in terms of like what his effect on the actual plot is is you know none it's none you know he's he's kind of like kurt russell in big trouble little china like i mean he doesn't at least kurt russell exactly he's 100 the the dude He's got a little bit of the swagger of of ah of rick daal of Rick Dalton, like being... Well, Rick Dalton's like an alcoholic, but, you know, as washed up has been.
01:14:34
Speaker
But he still has this kind of bravado. And and i in you see that shine through in parts where... But for... Bob, that's almost coming from maybe like a sense of entitlement of like, hey, I put in my hours and my time as a revolutionary.
01:14:50
Speaker
So i you you hear that in the the phone calls with when he's trying to get the rendezvous, pa but he can't remember because he's so burnt out that he's that that that it's it's so it's like an indignation to him of like hey fuckhead i'm you know i do you know how i am i'm you know i'm fucking ghetto man like you should be you should be speaking to me respectfully and i shouldn't have to prove myself to you and soon i i think that's like speaking to that of of of like like you said like gen x
01:15:22
Speaker
gave into apathy and then they're making it other people's problems. Like, like you like, yo know, I think it's very intentional that the ah operator on the other end who won't give them the, the, the rendezvous point is like being like, like, oh, you're, this is very triggering, you know, like using all these like very like,
01:15:40
Speaker
ah very, very soft, woke terms in terms of like, like oh like yeah are you being triggered? like i i think I think that's a funny juxtaposition because he it's like the guy is not doing anything. That's his job is to make sure you have the correct codes because That's like their whole organization would be compromised by someone just just picking up a phone calling and not having like you're supposed to just trust them on what? And it's important to note that that that person in question is not like some Zoomer. It's somebody DiCaprio's age. It's a like a guy with a gray beard. Right. Yeah. Who is saying he's back to him. Right. so So that's funny in itself. Right.
01:16:22
Speaker
And then also like to talk about the ghetto pattern and all right. Like going back to the earlier parts of the film, just for a brief moment. Right. Like his whole motivation for being a revolutionary in the first place feels very like driven by his admiration for Deanna Taylor's character. Right. Like.
01:16:38
Speaker
He doesn't actually feel like he's in revolution because of any strongly held political beliefs. And it's instead his association with her that he's able to be seen as this revolutionary war hero, right?
01:16:51
Speaker
It's through his love for her that he is this way. And then... the fact that she is outed as this rat and she is the cause of the deaths of all these things, he gets the glory for her actions without any the hang up to of her mistakes. Right.
01:17:06
Speaker
So he's able to like have that, you know, cachet to him. When in reality, it was never earned. Right. he He just is this guy who was there at the right place and at the right time.
01:17:18
Speaker
And he knew all the right things to say. Right. And the moment that he had it out, he took it. Right. And he did it for the right reasons. You know, I'm not arguing that. Right. but I just think it's interesting that he is somebody who, like, was more motivated by, like, his prime desires and just being in the right place in the right time.
01:17:36
Speaker
And now he's in this position with a lot of respect by some. And, you know, like, he's half remembering these things and trying to earn the respects of others. So he's a really interesting character from that perspective.
01:17:46
Speaker
And then, like, he is just perpetually stoned. He is, he is pussing on joints, everything he can, right? And, and he, he is, like, more stones than Joaquin Phoenix's character from Inherent Vice, like, Because do is like, there is that tension of like, you know, in the stoner noir subgenre, like, which I would even include Long Goodbye, even though you never see him i actually do drugs in in that. fa out Like all those blazing. Come on.
01:18:15
Speaker
ah Yeah, absolutely. And there's still the haziness of like, where you're like, is he following what's happening? How like on the money is, is he on it like, ah but, but. Even though Doc walks that line, he ultimately is a decent detective. Like, he's like kind of, you know, he's he's with it.
01:18:32
Speaker
Like, you know, he doesn't. other people get the best of him because he's kind of like going up against institutional powers and like things that are larger than him. But like, it's not because he's like a, a, a, an inept doper, you know, uh, he's actually pretty competent on the, as opposed to Leo, who is just like, that's just taken everything out of him.
01:18:59
Speaker
the Well, well, the weed consumption from the inherent vice perspective, right? Like he is trying to like, properly internalize how the times are changing, right? And how, as the times are changing, like, these institutional powers are robbing the era of what made him enjoy life, right? Like, that's that's what's interesting about that film, right? And how it's rectifying with the American past in that sense. so This film, it's like, he is smoking weed because he doesn't want to be an active participant in society anymore, right? Like, it's like,
01:19:33
Speaker
And further down the line of what would have happened to Doc Sportello, right? Whereas Sportello is like still of the moment as he's existing in Heron Pice, but in check-in with him 20 or 30 years down the line, he's probably going be like Bob Ferguson, right?
01:19:46
Speaker
And Bob Ferguson, when he needs to click in, he mostly does, right? But he's limited by his age and how much time has passed, right? And, you know, like, I really love the moment when he gets off the phone with Regina Hall, right?
01:20:01
Speaker
And he's sitting there in the in the room and he's got the banana clip, right? He takes one more puff, right? and he's like, don't panic, right? And then the camera camera pans away, right? And then you see the guys come in and he's gone, right?
01:20:16
Speaker
It's this really wonderful way that you're able to kind of just see how we can like click into place, right? And it's like, it's it's muscle memory for him. Right. Not just, you know...
01:20:28
Speaker
headspace, right? And that's the thing that's keeping him alive for most the movie is like he his body remembers how he used to be with Deanna Taylor. and And now he's able to relive that in action.
01:20:40
Speaker
And it's in following those steps again that he has to not only remember these things, but then also like emotionally come to terms with how he didn't appropriately ah you know internalize that trauma and you know yeah that's that's maybe one big thing that you could say about this movie is a lot of it is about trauma right and we've had so many movies about trauma right but but i feel like this one is ah approaching the topic in a more ah mature way it's about dad trauma it's very specific single parent dad trauma but
01:21:11
Speaker
ah ah But like you said, it is muscle merit because like when he has the opportunity to fire on Lockjaw, when he's like looking down at the combat, he opens, you know, he takes he starts taking the shots. It's not like he
Failed Shooting Scene and Impulsive Reactions
01:21:24
Speaker
doesn't have the ba he he he fails, though, because he's out of state, you know, like he hasn't been to the firing range. He hasn't fired a gun and, you know, all that all that time. So he's she's not a good shot, but he is willing to take the shot.
01:21:38
Speaker
but I can tell you why he failed. the The visual language of the scene was so strong that I could tell why he failed that shot. And it was because he did not adjust for wind. He did not adjust for time that the bullet would take to get there. Like, he literally just lines up the shot on his stomach.
01:21:54
Speaker
Yeah. And then he was reacting impulsively because he just sees his daughter and he's like, oh, fuck, it locked. draw You know, like it's like kind of just all hitting him there, like very viscerally.
01:22:06
Speaker
And you can tell that he, yeah, like he those things that he should be accounting for, like wind and the trajectory and all that, that that he he's he's not thinking like he's just reacting.
01:22:18
Speaker
Exactly. But the way that that scene plays, right? Like you hear the bullet shoot, right? and And you're seeing the reaction actually from inside the car. You're with Chase Infinity and you hear the bullet shot.
01:22:29
Speaker
And then you see Sean Penn walking around the car before the bullet even hits the back of the car. And that's what gets them to fire at him. And they all know where he is looking immediately. right it's It's all of these things just fall right in a row.
01:22:44
Speaker
and Like, I'm sorry to drill in so much in that moment, but you're right and totally entirely, right? Where it's like he's totally out of step with how to actually be an effective person. like part of the story. Right. And, and going back to Gen X, right. Like this idea of this larger thing where it's like Gen X is so, so like plainly and pathetically trying to hold onto the reins of power.
01:23:08
Speaker
Like, like this is relating this to the Trump of it all. Right. Like they feel like that's like a kind of, you know, way to exert power again. Right. And in backing that candidate.
01:23:18
Speaker
Yeah. But the reality himself is like a fucking because like if you're like, oh, you fuck the system, you know, that's like part of the whole Trump branding is like that. He is like a brick through the establishment of like ah the yeah I mean, it's ridiculous that you would buy that he is any kind of populist or cares about anyone but but himself. But but that's that's the narrative of like that. He's there to disrupt this this system. So if you're like, yeah, fuck this.
01:23:45
Speaker
Fuck these fucking corporate sellout candidates. I'm backing the the real estate billy mayor. He's, he's, he's my guy. The,
Bob's Intentions and Relationship with His Daughter
01:23:54
Speaker
the, the, three three the reality television show hosts that I feel like I know, you know, like it ends up becoming the thing for them because it's just like what they personally trust.
01:24:04
Speaker
Right. And, and for, uh, DiCaprio in that place, right? Like, ah you know, he is so motivated by the trying to protect his daughter that he loses sight of understanding that she has to fend for herself and that she is capable of taking care of herself. Right. Like it's we even literally see it before all of this starts. Right. Where ah she is mad at him for coming home late and stoned and drunk right and rather than be upset that she's chastising him he goes yes you're right you should call me out more right that's an excellent like way to show that he is trying his damnedest right and and it's it's what really like like it's what endears me to him like i really care about bob ferguson in this movie and and while he is not a massively like okay
01:24:57
Speaker
he doesn't really affect the plot at all. Like I love watching his journey because his intentions are so pure from that standpoint. Right, yeah, you you root for him because, one, you want his daughter to be okay, like, like you you want her to to come out on the other end, all right, but also, you're seeing this fire be reignited in him, like, it is muscle memory, but he also emotionally needs to lock in, in terms of, like, and remembering what this was all about in the first place, so, like, even if he is, like, not, you know, like, literally affecting the plot, he needs to...
01:25:34
Speaker
become a revolutionary again and that's why Sergio is like kind of the like the most important character and and in the whole thing i mean can we do a second round of applause he heio yeah come on everybody on your feet come on what an incredible performance I mean, I feel like everyone in this movie should be, like, nominated, but I really need Benicio to, like, at least... get I mean, I guess it did there would be two, like, you know, supporting actor slots, right? Like Sean Penn and Benicio. Oh, is Sean Penn versus him? Look, I think that Sean Penn is so funny, right?
01:26:13
Speaker
But it's like... The Zen revolutionary that Benicio del Toro is doing here is is a character we've never seen before. And also,
Zen Revolutionary and Masculine Roles
01:26:24
Speaker
like, I feel like he's going to be on walls a lot. Like, yeah, no, in Scarface. Like, I feel like he's that level of character. Yeah. and it like like like you said like the sean penn character is so compelling and it's a great villain but you can also kind of see the performance in it which works because that yeah the character himself is performing right but
01:26:48
Speaker
so so so that works But so like Benicio is doing it so natural. And i love that it's subverting what we because we usually see him play scary guys, you know, like he's kind of been in that Sicario mode for a while in terms of like because he's good at it. He's good at playing, you know, like threatening presence and stuff. But he can also be very warm and the like showing that like.
01:27:15
Speaker
ah a revolutionary know like to to do something like that takes a lot of balls right but it doesn't have to be the kind of masculinity of like where you're like ah overtly asserting yourself over other like basically like in a fascistic way you know like like where're where you are like trying to dominate other people it's like no it the it's actually what if it's actually ah you know what if kindness is the real punk rock?
01:27:47
Speaker
But yeah it's like, what if Zen? and What if... the Because it's it's just pure love. Like, that's what this whole... His whole Mexican Harriet Tubman situation is for. We don't see the origins of that, but that's what it's coming from. And we see in his teachings of, like, because he's being a sensei even when he's not in the dojo. Like, you see, like, but with a soft touch. Like, he is trying to kind of...
01:28:12
Speaker
it before he even fully realizes Bob's past, ah ah ye he's not hesitating to help him at all. And he is you can see him kind of trying to guide him back to where he needs to be.
01:28:26
Speaker
But then also, once he learns that he was in the French 75, he has that respect for it. like He's like, oh, ah you're a bad hombre, Bob. One of the best lines in the movie, right? Because like...
01:28:41
Speaker
Meta textually, obviously there's that thing, right? But then it's also like... taking it back almost, you know, where now bad hombre is like a really cool thing to be called, you know? actually, at least she'll cause you that. Yeah.
01:28:54
Speaker
Yep. and And I really want to get to the the karate aspect of it, right? Because like, that's how he's introduced, right? And then also like, that's how we're introduced to Willa, right? We're introduced to Willa and Del Toro in that moment, right? Sergio.
01:29:08
Speaker
And so what that tells me is that like, While we get the understanding that DiCaprio's character had taught ah Willa all of these things, right? That she had this, ah you know, ah revolutionary and survival tactics like instilled in her.
01:29:25
Speaker
I feel as though Sergio was equally a part in like instilling those morals in Willa. So when we do see her later in the film when she is has those combat instincts,
01:29:37
Speaker
I feel like that's a part of his revolutionary tendencies more than like even Bob's or is her mother's. Right. Like, I feel like this is this is a film that's so much about how, like, all revolutions are a part of the same fabric.
01:29:53
Speaker
Right. And it's how all of those things come together to the current moment and how all like I've brought up the word intersectionality, like in many different respects. But this is where it is, right, where all of these things are coming to a head.
01:30:06
Speaker
on all of these different identities, right, where they have to work together and to fight under a common goal, to make sure that everyone's okay, right? And with this Harriet Tubman thing, right, like, we know that Bob doesn't really know Sergio until this moment, and it's, like, through this event that they start to go grow closer together, right?
01:30:26
Speaker
And while it's interesting to see how Sergio learns that he was from the French 75, it's actually more interesting to see how Bob, like, slowly uncovers this, like, secret harriet mexican Harriet Tubman Mexican you know organization that's going on here, where it's like starts out as a storefront.
01:30:44
Speaker
Then it turns out that there's like a whole group of children and mothers who are looking to escape. Right. And then you see like their escape patterns. Right. There's a whole network, or you know, it because like he has he has the eyes on the street with like the parkour skateboarders, which ah yeah that's fucking awesome.
01:31:01
Speaker
But but then also like when Bob's apprehended, he has people everywhere. Like it's its own network that's so completely separate from the the f French 75. It's like a boobin onto itself.
01:31:13
Speaker
But like you said, and they they share comedy the French 75 of their era. That's the thing. Right. It's just nobody has called them the French 75 yet. Well, because they they're they're like infiltrated, you know, all these different levels to a way that they can kind of operate within the shed. Because like, I mean, maybe the woman who, nurse who lets Leo out of the hospital, she might need to leave or change jobs after that. Because i think they'll but they might put two and two together. But, ah you know, that they that she's just been there and is ready to, you know, activate when the time is needed.
01:31:47
Speaker
And Sergio doesn't hesitate using those resources, even though he clearly has a lot on his plate. Kind of because of Leo, because like this whole operation of Lockjaw doing the raids and roundups is like, he's like, find me an excuse, a reason for like, once he knows where where Bob and Willa are, he's like, find me an excuse to be there, you know? So, so that's like the, the raids are almost like the cover for him to, you know, get Willa.
01:32:14
Speaker
ah So it, this is all, like bob's fault in a way and even once sergio realizes that there's no scene where he gets mad at bob where he's like oh you've endangered all all this whole thing you know because of you it's just love the whole way down like he's got nothing but and the the the only the only rush i mean he's he's rushed in his tone when he's telling bob that he can't charge his phone at certain places but there's never any moment where he's actually like raising his voice at bob it's more just like even and even when the cops are coming like once they're there he's just like we gotta go bob you know he's like look you know he kind of gestures to the window and he's he's like yeah they're here but he's not he's never like mad you know compared to the bob who's like freaking the fuck out the whole time just because he can't get a code word on the phone i love to
01:33:04
Speaker
but yeah I love that Sergio ah not only responded when he's like, the what time he's like, is he 15? It was so, so funny. But then he also has Bob's back in terms like, ah, they're being such sticklers for the car. Like, like they he had basically no interactions with this guy before. I mean, like he teaches like his daughter, but it this this relationship itself is new. But he's immediately number one bro for Bob. He's like, huh, that's bogus, man. They should give you the code. They should give you the rendezvous point.
01:33:38
Speaker
I really want to circle back to what you were saying about him not being nonplus, not like him, not freaking out about the cops coming to mess up his organization. Right. Because what is this movie called? It's one battle after another. Right. It's like these things are going to happen.
01:33:55
Speaker
he they They are going to face these struggles because in the eyes of the American law, you know, they are doing something that's illegal. Whether or not it's ethical or not is an entirely different question, right?
01:34:06
Speaker
They are doing the right thing, right? They know that even if they're doing the wrong things in the eyes of the law, they are doing what needs to be done, right? And that's really what he what Sergio is doing with Bob, right? Where he understands that there is something bigger than the inconveniences that he's being suffered by Bob rambling, right? Because ultimately, at the end of the day, like, what's a guy rambling, right?
01:34:30
Speaker
not Right. Right. What's what's a guy using your power outlet? Nothing. Right. Like as just basic kindness. Right. Right. What the real problem is like ice coming into your town and taking people off the streets like families and like throwing them in prisons for no reason. Right.
01:34:47
Speaker
That's the real enemy. Right. So when it comes to the way that ah Sergio moves through life, right, like ah he uses the whole ocean waves, you know, like everything is Zen, all that stuff.
01:35:00
Speaker
He's also an alcoholic. Right. He is constantly drunk. of The Modellos. Yeah. He's chugging them down. But it hasn't dulled him to what he needs. It is a counterpoint to ah Bob's pot use where it's completely nullified his revolutionary spirit and like his senses that Sergio is ready to move on a dime. Like he's not missing any steps. Like he's also but he's also in chill mode. So he has a bell. He's like,
01:35:31
Speaker
the the and The inference is that Bob is too high. Like, Bob is, like, you know, putting himself into a cush coma every night, right? Right. Meanwhile, like, what's Benicio's answer when he gets pulled over by the cops? don't know. Bearders, little bearders, you know. His little move he does when he's, like, putting his hands behind his head. He's, like, he's like dancing, you like, when he's on the line. Yeah, he's... Everything about him. Pulling the little tails of his shirt, you know? Yeah.
01:35:58
Speaker
he And he's not worried. Like the cops are have pulled him over. He's been drinking and driving. And they did see a man with a rifle just ah leap from his car.
01:36:09
Speaker
And he's not worried. yeah Like, like, ah it you know, whether it's because he knows that, like, even if they bring him in, he's got people who can help him. Or he's he seems like he's pretty confident he can talk his way out of this because he's just like,
01:36:24
Speaker
ultimately what do they have on me like they don't even have the cans like yeah like you could breathalyze me right now sure but like bob's got it you know gone now so you don't either so he says like what'd you throw out of your car he's like it's some trash it's because it's like they can't prove that there is a man with a rifle there it's like yeah well i don't know what you saw i just threw some garbage out my car well Well, again, it's important to like put into perspective that DiCaprio's revolutionary days are done, and Sergio's in the middle of his, right? And and again, the title, one battle after the another, right? like
01:36:58
Speaker
Him going off to jail, he doesn't see that as the end. he's He's like... So it goes. I'm going to get out of here. No problem. Right. And ultimately, me being pulled over by the cops, I'll figure it out. And it's more important that Bob just goes off on his job. Right.
01:37:15
Speaker
You could make the argument, you know, that like this does a massive disservice to like his place in the plot and what this means for this Mexican guy to be pulled over under the influence. You know, like he's maybe thrown in jail and have the blood thrown at him. Right.
01:37:29
Speaker
Maybe they tie the underground railroad things back to him. Right. Who knows? Right. But what matters is the moment there. And the momentary victory is that he helped Bob get to his daughter.
01:37:42
Speaker
Right. Bob ba got away. that that That's the victory. And it's like, he sure, this could be a setback if he is detained. But this is bigger than him. You know, like whether it's Bob's mission. all service of Yeah, it's all in service of love. For the next generation. For Willa, right? Because he cared as deeply about Willa as Bob did.
01:38:05
Speaker
Think about the fucking calendar, right? Willa's in the calendar. Fucking on the wall of the entrance. Willa is right there. Her picture's hanging like she had one of his kids because, i mean, and you see that with a lot of those and instructors or someone who has, like, close relationship with other people's children like that, that they just start to consider of like, yeah, well, I'm doing a lot here in terms of the like the raising fat and emotionally nurturing things. So like you have have that bond there where you're like, I yeah have the same paternal feelings that I would if she were my own child.
01:38:39
Speaker
I feel like he stepped up. I feel like he he put in a bit more parenting than the film even lets on, you know, just in the sense of instilling those things within Willa to where she can survive. I mean,
Christmas Adventurers Club Critique
01:38:50
Speaker
you see, like, when Willa's, like, trying to get away, even if ultimately it comes down to someone else's... ah yeah it you know, developing a moral backbone at at at the 11th hour that that she gets away.
01:39:04
Speaker
But when she's trying to outmaneuver Lockjaw, she's using like moves that seem like, i you know, I don't know if it was judo or which style that ah Sergio it teaches, but like all those kind of like leg throws that she's like doing with him, that's like stuff she would have learned from him. So like she's trying to, you know, and that's all about like,
01:39:25
Speaker
ah that kind of self-defense is like, even if your opponent's bigger, you can still, you can leverage that against them. So like, she's, she's not like giving in and helpless. She's like, I'm going to, but you know, find a way out of this. And it's just like her, her training is kind of ah kicking in there.
01:39:43
Speaker
And then even once, you know, she gets her hands on the gun, she seems like she knows what to do with that. You know, like she's pretty ready. ah i mean, the Yeah, let's let's let's let's let's go there with the whole... Because they already established that this tracker ah you know when we when we go to the the Christmas adventures.
01:40:04
Speaker
Also, I love... it's sort Yeah. yeah um it Why do they need several layers of like get smart security in an underground... bay like I love the absurdity of it, but it's also funny. It's like...
01:40:17
Speaker
The white supremacist one, you guys don't have to like operate in secret, but the the fact that they do adds this layer of like, like it it's an absurdity, but also I think speaks to like a general insecurity to white supremacy itself of like, yeah, you guys are the ones in power. who Like why?
01:40:36
Speaker
you're I have the operate like that. You're like hushed in the in the secrets. It's like, No, you guys run the world. So let he go like, what what why are you hiding? It feels so stupid.
01:40:47
Speaker
But then also there's like a layer to it that feels like it's so stupid that I feel like the idiots who are in charge would do something like this. Right. Like, i there's a way two yeah. I feel like Pete Hegseth would be a part of the Christmas Adventurers Club, you know? Oh, Fass Patel would try and get in.
01:41:04
Speaker
They wouldn't let him in. the he would believe if He would be like, bill will i'm not under's like i i you know I've referenced Valhalla and stuff. Like, why did you guys let me I thought it was cool. I thought i saw all the right things. Yeah.
01:41:20
Speaker
It's it's ah but there's the layer of it, obviously, the name, you know, the Christmas Adventurers Club, right, where it's like, you know, why would you call it this thing? But then also it's like their their idea of the coolest group ever is just invoking in quotations like the coolest holiday, you know.
01:41:39
Speaker
Like it's it's like always maintained that as a as a warrior in the war on Christmas, I've always maintained that it's it's it's it's fascist. So yeah the this sentence movie just confirms all all my fear.
01:41:52
Speaker
yeah But but but it's funny that it's it's a because Christmas now largely is a very secular holiday, you know, regardless of how it's supposed to be the birth of Christ or whatever. But it's largely secular and there's nothing really religious about their organization other than when they say hail Saint Nick, but they're not worshiping, like, they're not worshiping Christ. They're worshiping Saint. It's ironic.
01:42:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And it's also an inversion of Satanism, so right? Which is often what is, like, used as the scapegoat or, you know, in many cases founded, like, a root of many secret societies that have been, you know...
01:42:34
Speaker
People have sometimes been like, oh, Satanist cabals run these secret societies, right? And like, that's what that's commenting on It's like and an abstraction of that where it's like they're almost in a postmodern sense making fun of Satanism by them saying Saint Nick.
01:42:51
Speaker
But then also that in its own way is this like affront to God in its own sense that they're like, as Santa Claus is their form of ultimate deity, right?
01:43:03
Speaker
It's the guy who gives you presents for free every year, right? and ah Which sounds kind of Marxist, you know? Like he dresses in red, gives out gives out shit for free. don't know. Sounds kind of like Santa's a fucking commie.
01:43:17
Speaker
Practice what you preach, Lockjaw. Come on, geez. if If you knew it was right, you wouldn't just turned this whole country into a commie. Come on. i like I like his response when Lockjaw finds out about the convent. Like, they're like, yeah, I don't know, some nuns who grow weed up there. he's like, what is that supposed to be? Some kind of joke on God or something? Or as he says, like, joke on Christ?
01:43:39
Speaker
He's so obsessed with optics. That's also funny. Yeah. He's the only person who's obsessed with any, like... Later in the church, right? When he when he's like ah when Chase Infinity is like, why are you wearing your shirt so tight?
01:43:53
Speaker
I'm not a homosexual. like That's what you're implying. Yeah. That's immediately what he goes to. towards like
01:44:02
Speaker
and And it goes back to the Christmas Adventurers Club, right? Like, they're so obsessed with aesthetics, right? And he is so much more so, right, in that sense. And also, like... Because what is white supremacy if not aesthetics? Because it's like, what...
01:44:16
Speaker
Why does it matter if someone has mixed race child? How does that affect you in any way, shape or form? But the way with like when they have the meeting about it and and they're like bringing the charges against a lockjaw to like, well, there we've heard rumors that he's had a mixed race child. They're like, what race? And like there's no easy way to say this. Black. And the one guy goes,
01:44:40
Speaker
he know That was like though the worst answer it could have been. but it was like, well, maybe if it was like a Latino or something. I don't know what would have been an acceptable like half mix or something. But but but but black was the worst answer because it was like, oh well, now we got deal with this.
01:44:58
Speaker
They're like, we would have let Italians slide, you know, but like this is...
01:45:03
Speaker
ah But I love actually when he's first going into the meeting, right? And they're asking him these questions, right? Like, have you ever been in an interracial ah relationship or whatever the way they phrase it, right?
01:45:15
Speaker
And like every vein on the forehead of Sean Penn is bursting. And he's like, what? but like like i've i've called this movie like a looney tune and and i really feel like sean penn is like wiley coyote at all moments like he's just like mugging at the camera and and every time he's with the christmas adventurers club he's like trying so hard to fit in but he knows that like his heart ain't really in it he eat me he he loves black women too much like
01:45:47
Speaker
He is kind of like Wile E. Coyote because, like, no he's continually blown up. like He should be dead after that getting shot in his car flipped over like that. But then he's walking away from that like like a Looney Tune. and But then, obviously, they get they get him in the end. But but it is like there is an absurdity to that visual of, like, you cut to his bloody face and him walking away. you're like, Jesus, this guy just was not...
01:46:12
Speaker
quitting but did you recognize that the one like older guy who i guess whose basement it is that they're having the christmas adventures meeting it it's it's jim downey who uh was a writer for norm mcdonald he's the one who has that on his fifth thing that people are always quoting about you know like jeffrey epstein like the the the real estate what or whatever how the joke goes where he's like you know being surprised jeff downey the conan guest yeah
01:46:41
Speaker
Yeah, but without a mustache or any facial, because I think he also is briefly in here. It'll be blood with like he has like a beard, like he looks different at every configuration of facial hair. Like you give him a beard, he looks different.
01:46:52
Speaker
He has the mustache when he was on Conan. You take that away and he's clean shaven. He almost kind of looks like Trump like at the end when when Lockjaw comes in after he's disfigured and he's in the suit and just like, I don't know, just the way he's and his makeup and the way he's lit. He kind of has like a ah Trump scene to him.
01:47:10
Speaker
yeah like I forget the name of the actor. i forget the name of the actor I want to look him up really quick. ah One of the other Christmas adventures? Yeah, the the guy you're referencing, Downey, ah he he looked to me like, oh, shoot, Michael McKean and mckee from Better Call. Oh, sure, sure. When I first watched the movie, I was like, oh, that is that him? And then when I found out it was Downey after the fact, I was like, that's way funnier.
01:47:39
Speaker
And like the thing with Paul Thomas Anderson, he loves working with comedians and like these like random people that he's worked like. There will be blood pulled up. Tompkins is in that film, right? Like there, there are people there and loves to pull it like that. Right. And
Chase Infinity's Growth and Regina Hall's Role
01:47:54
Speaker
putting them in those exact places, you know, like in this Christmas adventurers realm, nothing he is saying is played for laughs, but it's the absurdity of what they're saying.
01:48:06
Speaker
That makes it funny. Like he has the line about like, we're going after the haters very Yeah, yeah. But then also, it's like, it's like funny and absurd when he's talking about like when when they're sending like the cleaner after hit after lockjaw, basically, like we want it cleans like you mean clean as in when he's like, and then when he says like, you know, that we we can eat off the floors.
01:48:29
Speaker
It's like a funny way to phrase that. But it's also kind of terrifying because you're getting that look at you're like, oh, you're talking about like, no trace. You're you cur killing everybody then. But like, that's the that For him to like casually like lay it out in that kind of manner is is is scary.
01:48:46
Speaker
But then it's also, you know, I also chuckle at it because it's funny just to say that in that way. I also just love the fact that like when he when the other guy hears that, like when you see his version of clean, it's not clean at all.
01:48:58
Speaker
It was so many like if if if he had walked away from that, what were the cops going to think happened? Like you just left the this bloody guy, this bloody sergeant or colonel there' like it is in the car. or Are you going to blame it on the nuns or like what's what's the plans there? who's Like there's not even a ah an attempt to stage it.
01:49:20
Speaker
Sean Penn was driving down the road when buckshot came out of nowhere and killed him and caused him to crash his car, right? Like, it just makes no sense. and Even even then them the way they execute him in the end, why even give him the fake-out of that he's been accepted instead of someone could just walk up behind him Goodfellas-style and shoot him in the back of the head right there in the meeting, but they give him the illusion of... well that this is like that he is like he almost gets to die happy because he doesn't like have time to really think about oh I'm being gassed I'm oh they got me he like he looks up and he's like kind of already had like a smile on his face because he was content that he had made it and that's how he gets to die Lockjaw gets everything he wants by the end. He is accepted by society, right? That's the way he's able to go out.
01:50:14
Speaker
Him getting the corner office with the view. yeah All of the stuff, you know, that he did beforehand, right? It was in service of that moment. He just wanted to just fuck off and be in the corner office, right? Give it to them, you know?
01:50:28
Speaker
It's like they didn't have to do that. and and that's what makes his death seem so funny. Right. Where it's like they orchestrate this massive thing to give him exactly what he wants and he gets what he wants. But that's the thing that kills him. Right.
01:50:40
Speaker
and And I just love the fact that when he is dead. Right. He's always cross eyed. with his tongue out, right? Like he has never given in like a dignified stance. he He's in the incinerator and his eyes are crossed, right? It's crazy how undignified his death is.
01:50:58
Speaker
But for him, as he's dying, he knows it's the end of him. He knows the the gas is coming in. He can hear it. And at the same time, he's okay with it. He's made peace with it all because he knew what he wanted.
01:51:10
Speaker
yeah and And going back to what you were saying about like how orchestrated and stupid and silly that these Christmas adventurers would go to these lengths. You're totally right. You're on the money. It's the, ah it's the way that these, you know, rich and ah privileged people ask, like they see the ah dramatic irony in doing it this way. Right. Rather than just doing it in a clean way, rather than tying up their loose ends, they are more interested in being petty about it. Right.
01:51:36
Speaker
Yeah. um And, And and and bring you like let's bring it back to Chase Infinity a bit. you know Yeah, because i why I'm going to talk about her whole, like we alluded to, ah what she has to go through at at the end. But her whole arc is is very fascinating in terms of she not only has to reckon with what the truth is about her mother, but the truth about herself and who she actually is. And...
01:52:01
Speaker
who she actually is and Yeah, i think I think she plays all that so well. I mean, I i think she there should be a lot of nominations coming off of this, but I i would also ah yeah i'll put Chase Infinity for supporting it. I mean, she's kind of in terms of, I mean, if, if you know. If she's going against Tiana Taylor, I think Tiana Taylor's going to take it, you know? Yeah. I feel like i feel like that would be where I go come at this movie with. Because because who would be lead actress in this movie? i don't think anyone.
01:52:34
Speaker
You know, like, i well it's all supporting. Right. But i was thinking of, like, Killers of the Flower Moon logic. Not that that worked out for them. True. Words wise. Like, if if ah Lily a Gladstone can be the ah lead actor. And I agree with that on a text because, like, people take their stopwatches of like, well, she only has so much, you know.
01:52:56
Speaker
ah screen time, but it's like she's the engine of that film. And I think similarly, Chase Infinity is the core ah of like she's kind of a more active protagonist than Bob. I mean, Bob does as is active and has to, you know, is basically going on a mini like the odyssey his journey to be reunited with family.
01:53:18
Speaker
But, uh, she also is going through, ah like she, uh, yeah, I, don't know. I, I think you could easily like view this from like, you know, like once you get to the time jumped up, like it's kind of her move.
01:53:30
Speaker
Well, you're totally right. You are, right? Because this movie is a three-hander, right? It's it's between Lockjaw, it's between Bob, and it's between her, right? And honestly, it feels like Lockjaw is given the most, which is what's so strange about this movie, is that Lockjaw is centered in a lot of these things, and it's...
01:53:50
Speaker
Because this story starts with his emb involvement with Tiana Taylor, right? And it's that really strange arc to it, right? ah But when we're with Chase Infinity as Rilla, what's interesting about her arc is that we really are not afforded a lot of interiority with her. We are forced to just see how she reacts to these events.
01:54:09
Speaker
And it's because she hasn't really been considered an entity, like a living entity with her own thoughts and emotions until this point, right? The only person who saw her as an equal was Sergio in the intro when he's teaching her out of, you know, VV's things. Bob is underestimating her abilities.
01:54:27
Speaker
Lockjaw is underestimating her abilities, right? But whenever we're left alone with her, we know what she's capable of. And it's great that we get Regina Hall as this kind of like, you know, foil to...
01:54:38
Speaker
ah see her act off of to like kind of prove her own worth right like i love the moment when she's introduced uh regina hall is introduced at the dance right and when she comes into bathroom and there's those uh little devices that make that wonderful chime and ah first off i gotta say like that the the concept of the chime making this like harmony when they come together just brilliant screenwriting just brilliant like to have that as a device in a film it just works and also like because what is a resolution if not people coming together so it's like it's it's not a solo act so the fact that that's like a these paired devices and the the fact that leo always has technical if he
01:55:24
Speaker
prescribes it as technical difficulties of like they work sometime or a lot of times they don't is almost speaking to his inability to sync up with the times and then also the revolution itself in terms of like he's out he's the one who's out of step that's why his thing is has trouble synchronizing she she is open and she doesn't even realize it yet right like she she is pine man for that kind of change because But she hasn't found it because, like I was saying earlier, she doesn't have the kind of specific knowledge of revolutionary action or fighting for anything, ah particularly lined out in her worldview, right?
01:56:05
Speaker
And it's when Regina Hall enters the frame, right? Because we never see her in that bathroom. It's just through the mirror, right? And it's just... It's all on Chase's face. And she is like an immediate movie star.
01:56:18
Speaker
Right. And ah there are many reference points that you can point to with this movie, you know, but it almost feels like everything with Willa is a Spielberg movie. And i I just like the the the weird intersection of, you know, you've got a bit of David Lean, you know, a bit of John Ford.
01:56:35
Speaker
But then there's like a heart of Spielberg in this movie. Yeah. coming from PTA of all people, you know, like this is how I know he's leveling up because like Spielberg is the blockbuster King, right? I mean, it makes sense that Spielberg has, has only had a few surprise for one battle. I think yeah he's, he's, he's clocking that.
01:56:56
Speaker
I also with, with Willa, maybe more specifically in this first ah encounter with Regina Hall, I was kind of, uh, getting ah Matrix vibes of like when a character is offered the opportunity. I mean, that's also another movie about revolution and, you know, how revolutionary love is can be. but But when Neo is first offered...
01:57:19
Speaker
the call, he refuses it. you Like, he's afraid, like, when he's on the phone with Morpheus, and Morpheus is telling him to to jump ah over on this ledge, she looks down and gets afraid. He's like, I'm not fucking doing that. That's, like, that's too scary for him.
01:57:34
Speaker
ah Chase Infinity, Willa, she is, like, ready to roll. i mean, she's, like, surprised that this is, like, happening now of all times, and she's not truthful about the cell phone, but...
01:57:46
Speaker
She goes with Regina Hall like she's she's not like dragging her feet. You know, she's like, OK, this is like my dad told me to trust whoever showed up like this with my life. So what where are we what what do we do? You know?
01:58:01
Speaker
Well, I want to put a very fine point on that because a like the Matrix comparison is right on the money. I feel that strongly with her arc. And that's mainly because this is plainly the hero's journey stuff. Right. And I'll get more into the major stuff later on within her arc. Right. But when it comes to this moment, right, like of her with the cell phone, because that really stuck out to me in the film.
01:58:24
Speaker
Yeah. but That's her refusal of the call in a way. Right. We're like, it's also the closest to Tiana Taylor that she gets. Right. Because there is no reason for her to keep that cell phone. That is her being selfish at that point in a way. Right. Rebellion in itself.
01:58:40
Speaker
Because it's a rebellion against her father. her Her dad, overbearing father, is, you know, very reasonably for security measures. Like, yeah, having a cell phone is a way you could be tracked. So it makes sense that he would implement that rule. But she, you know, is a teenager and teenagers rebel against their parents. So it's like, no, I'm going to have a cell phone. Fuck you.
01:59:02
Speaker
And then, right, like Regina Hall's in that element, right? Because it's important for for me that Regina Hall is that character that Pulls her through mainly because Regina Hall is like the only other person who cared about her birth and her safety after the fact. Right. Like when they're at the campfire at the beginning of the film, it's Jungle Pussy and Tiana Taylor on one side and Regina Hall and Leonardo DiCaprio on the other.
01:59:26
Speaker
Right. And when Leonardo DiCaprio needs to leave, it's Regina Hall putting Chase Infinity into the hamper. It's her getting all of her stuff together, handing her off to Leonardo DiCaprio.
01:59:37
Speaker
At that point, like, I almost see Regina Hall's place in Chase Infinity's life as more maternal than even Tiana Taylor's was. And when she's re reunited with her, it's like almost as if, like, she's she's not her mother, you know? But she did step up in those ways, right?
01:59:56
Speaker
And there is, like, ah you know ah connection that was there that Chase Infinity will never know, Yeah. But Regina Hall knows that she needs to step up and help teach in some ways where Leonardo DiCaprio left out, right?
02:00:10
Speaker
She does, you know, but regardless... Yeah, regardless, like there's there's a like like Gray, who we did the Eddington talk with. I know he's
PTA Retrospective and Filmmaker Insights
02:00:21
Speaker
a big PTA guy. So ah I also kind of want to just you know maybe do some kind of PTA retrospective. I mean, there's there are some ones like where I'm like, oh, Inherent Vice needs to be like its own episode, but there could be a little bit of role like PTA discussion that I know he would be interested in in doing but yeah also getting getting his thoughts on on this movie would be cool
02:00:44
Speaker
Well, one thing I wanted to bring up, I was going to bring this up at the end of the pod, but I'll bring it up now. We're having this kind of combo. I tweeted about me watching Spree and then it kind of went viral a bit from people, quote, retweeting it.
02:00:58
Speaker
And to the point where the director of Spree was interacting with all of these things. bush is i didn't I didn't see the director responding to that. That's fucking awesome.
02:01:09
Speaker
ah But ah what I was going to say was like, I know you had some big plans for like a spree episode. And I was thinking like, what if we reached out to the director and saw if he wanted to be involved?
02:01:20
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Like that's... how small it's like i vote I've always had fun talking to fellow film enthusiasts about the things we love, but like I've always envisioned and wanted this to be the kind podcast where it's like if we if there's ever a way to like, you know, fold in the filmmakers themselves or anyone, you know, a part of that production. Like that's that's the ultimate, like you can't get better insight than that so from from from the the guy himself. So yeah, if...
02:01:49
Speaker
If you wanted to shoot him a lion and see if he's willing to come on and talk about it, then it'd be fucking awesome. I would totally do it. I wanted to like, let you know beforehand. Cause like, ah to be honest with you, like, I didn't even know that he had done that until like the day after I, like I like went on his account and i was like, Oh, she was interacting with a shit.
02:02:10
Speaker
So like, I want to like reach out in that sense, but I wanted to like get your, you know, approval first because didn't want to like, you know, or just go, you know, on show.
02:02:24
Speaker
I know. I'm sorry. I'm the worst. I'm the worst co-host. Ruining the podcast. The rule of Tony era has tanked this podcast. It's ruined this era.
02:02:38
Speaker
you can keep that part in. You can double it you it. You know, just... but but How dare you bring a legitimacy to us? That's the last thing we need. but Oh, come on. I'm not bringing, I'm not bringing legitimacy. I'm bringing, I'm bringing me. If I'm doing anything, I'm, I'm bringing a Tiana Taylor appreciation. That's what I'm going I just meant like having the filmmaker on, yeah like that makes it seem money yeah like like something you more official. like oh that was we're we're like We're like those tie-in HBO podcasts they have for every show they do now or something that sometimes are hosted by Paul Scheer and Amy Nicholson. I forgot which ones they've done, but I'm like, I mean, I've listened to Unspooled, and I i like here even when I disagree with their takes, but I'm like, how you guys end up getting the...
02:03:25
Speaker
That that gig where you i forgot which which recent like prestige or streaming show they did like the after show for I was like, that's random. I really like the succession podcast because it was Kara Swisher who is like she she's kind of like a crazy like tech and business blogger. Right.
02:03:45
Speaker
And what's kind of perfect for a session? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. And like she was like tying it into like real world like tech people and people who work within like news media. Right. So like i felt like she was actually like the perfect point you for that. Right.
02:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. Like with a Paul Scheer, Amy Nicholson, I love those people. Right. But I find like I actually want people from within the industry of what the media is about.
02:04:13
Speaker
if we're talking about it from an official podcast standpoint, to be a part of that. Right. Like ah Ben Stillen and. ah Adam Scott hosted the Severance podcast, right? I want a third party. I don't want the people who are involved with the show or involved in entertainment.
02:04:30
Speaker
They should be guests on an episode where you had like, okay, here's Ben Stiller here, but not where they're like the ones... ah You know, who yeah, exactly. There should be, know, forget talking Sopranos. I want a Sopranos podcast where actual mobsters are are weighing in or you get one mobster and one FBI guy.
02:04:53
Speaker
it There you go. and therely Yeah, yeah. I want to i want to hear how do they feel about it. I was going to say, like, I want the pit to be like an actual emergency room, like surgeon who's just like talking to.
02:05:06
Speaker
Who's recording it on his break from his 12 hour shift. He's like in his scrubs, bloodied still. Wow. Mid-surgery. He's mid-surgery. There it is. Yeah. he he's He's on the phone with Wiley. He's going like, so tell me about how you did this as he's like getting into someone's appendix.
02:05:27
Speaker
You hear someone flatlining over there like, oh are they okay? No, no, it's just here. I just got to. So tell me about the motivations of episode eight. Yeah.
02:05:41
Speaker
Do you think the Crichton estate is like, oh, fuck, we should have just let them use the Like, they just did not expect that to be anything? Is that why they denied it? Or was it all just like a money thing? Like, they weren't going to get enough from it? I don't know. I just know that they turned down the the you know the ER of it all. And that's why they had to to creatively reconjigger it. But, like, even though...
02:06:08
Speaker
That from my, I didn't watch all VR. It seems like there's a lot of crossover in that character of like that. He is kind of still playing that guy, even though they changed the name in the setting. i I, I love VR.
02:06:20
Speaker
I prefer the ethos of the pit. And it's because it is this like cinema verite, like in the moment kind of approach that they take. Right. That actually conveys well to like, it's also a good drama.
02:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. Very woke. But also, yeah er r was quite woke. its time, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Of its time, right? And I'm sure the pit will age in its own ways as time goes along, right? But that's the the fact of the matter is it has to be of its era, right?
02:06:49
Speaker
And when it comes to the way that the pit is meeting the era, like, ER was more interested in the interpersonal stuff, I found. It was more interested in the romances, you know, the drama of the doctors themselves.
02:07:01
Speaker
The Pit, it's putting the practice first, right? That's what makes it the best show on television airing right now in my books. I got to lock into The Pit. i didn't i have I actually haven't watched it. I've just kind experienced it like vicariously through other I'm not like a huge like doctor show person. So like I and i guess that was my main.
02:07:22
Speaker
I'm like I had my scrubs moment when that was airing. And then then I started to get sick of it when they brought it back to other times. And he said, sorry, it was on it. did By the end when they were doing like the next generation, and i was like, what the fuck is this show now?
02:07:38
Speaker
but to indie rock for your liking i yeah i yeah yeah i guess i always gravitate more towards the more comedic one because like mash also like even though right then i'd be like oh some episodes of mash are fucking crazy dark like you like because but then also like i guess you know scrubs also took that format of like oh yeah we're a comedy but also we will break your heart every now and then i I generally just don't like TV, right? And it's mainly because like from episode to episode, there seems to be like a lack of care and attention to like the bigger picture, right? Like how all of it fits together.
02:08:16
Speaker
They're more interested in spinning yarn for the sake of runtime, right? And when you're watching the pit, right? Because every episode is supposed to be one hour within a larger 18 hour shift of working at the hospital, right?
02:08:29
Speaker
It is so cohesive. it it feels really It feels real in the sense of like, this is how these things are plotting from one scene to another. And when you take a step back and you consider a whole season, ah it feels like a complete narrative.
02:08:45
Speaker
And all of the pieces are there to tell that complete narrative. But it's over 18 hours, right? Right. It's kind of the best of both worlds of like, because sometimes I think some shows went too far with trying to do like one long, like, oh, the show is one long movie.
02:09:00
Speaker
But it sounds like you're getting like, it's still taking advantage of like, the serialized nature of like, you're going to each hour, there will be something that's addressed in some form of resolution, but you're also, it's part of a cohesive whole. And I, I appreciate shows that can kind of like live in, in like, not both worlds. Cause it is still sounds like very serialized, but it's, it's, it's,
02:09:27
Speaker
it's still It's still TV. It's not like ah of shying away from being TV because some some yeah TV seems like it's like, a shit like no, no, we're where it's a movie, I swear.
02:09:39
Speaker
Don't
Serialized Storytelling in TV Shows
02:09:41
Speaker
trick me. There's too much filler for this to be a movie. yeah Well, is I would almost compare it to Twin Peaks The Return, right? Where like Twin Peaks The Return, like people use the comparison of movie, right? But at the same time, it is strictly television. It is commenting on television. It is using conventional television techniques to upend or comment on like...
02:10:06
Speaker
the whole life. You know, that's what that film, that thing. Right. Because if it wasn't TV, it couldn't subvert your structural, like regardless of how he filmed it, there is a rhythm to the episodes that you start to expect where you're like, okay, we're going to get weird stuff, check in with the various plot lines. And at the end, we'll go to the roadhouse.
02:10:24
Speaker
So then when you get to episode eight and that doesn't happen where you do the road, how you get the nine inch fucking nine inch nails and the the episode is not even halfway through, through you're like, what the fuck is happening?
02:10:36
Speaker
You're going to have bad time, guys. Yeah. No. And with the pit of it all. Right. Like, that's the thing where, like, it's so rigid, it's structure. Right.
02:10:48
Speaker
That as it commits to it, it gets harder and harder. Right. And so like, it like you feel the wheels coming off almost. yeah and And it's a part of the the thing itself.
02:11:01
Speaker
Right. And it's interesting. It'll be interesting to see how it has to maintain that as it continues through. it sounds really hard from the creative production standpoint.
02:11:11
Speaker
But it also. is baked into just like the nature of time itself, right? and And I think that that's what centers the show so well is that because it is these literal hours and the only the real through line is just how the arcs that started from the first hour carry over to the last hour, right?
02:11:31
Speaker
So like my my pitch for the pit is that like for how whatever reason, it just feels cohesive. And if you were to sit down and watch it in the whole like 18 hour run,
02:11:42
Speaker
You feel like you just watched an 18 hour long movie. Everything just works like every little piece that they set up from the start pays off in the end. And it's shocking that it's able to track all of those things. And I know this is one battle after to another podcast, but.
02:11:59
Speaker
No, no, no. I mean, I well i mean, yeah, and there's like I said, even if I have like some kind of thing where I don't gravitate towards the ah doctor or medical shows, there's certain ones where i'm like, I know I'm going to like it. Like the pits, one of them. And then there was the one that was it Soderbergh that did the neck or something that I'm like, that's yeah probably really good.
02:12:22
Speaker
They're like, that's probably really good because it's so Soderbergh. but But I'm like, I just haven't started yet because I'm like, have it's awesome doctors. But no, I'm sure I'm going to like it. I would say like even the Nick, right? You can wait for that.
02:12:35
Speaker
The Pit? Dive in. Well, the Knicks is like a Finnish thing. Or wait, did is it coming? but like Because they did like as their season. They wanted to come back, but they never did. That that was the ultimate tragedy of that show.
02:12:48
Speaker
the The Pit's about to come back. It's going to come back every year, you know? The pit yeah lean it's and the Pit's in seasons in a movie. six double at who Double it. What's the community movie coming? Dan Harmon, I know you're listening. You listen to the spy. You listen to everything, Dan Harmon. I know you're listening.
02:13:11
Speaker
when was it was it You keyword search. You
Nostalgia for Licensed Video Games
02:13:14
Speaker
don't need to be fucking around with Rick and Morty. No one even watches anymore. Focus all your attention on the community movie. Man, how, how, what suckers adult swim what were for like buying 80. We'll take 100 seasons. This is going to be relevant forever.
02:13:31
Speaker
yeah The people that we're making these business decisions with there are the most trustworthy people we've ever been in business with. They have no skeletons in their closet whatsoever. None of them will be out of the sex past reproduction at any point. None of them. Neither of them. Huh.
02:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, that did Dan feel like he was like, ah I'm not the most problematic one in the... yeah It's like, well, took a load off of me. i look kind of okay in retrospect.
02:14:03
Speaker
I wasn't messaging kids. Like, I'm fine. i was I was just taking advantage of my ah ah powers boss. so that's That's what happened. but My shot.
02:14:16
Speaker
ah Anyway, one battle after another. Fortnite. Back to Jason. Tie it. Is there a Jason of any skin?
02:14:27
Speaker
Is there? is there Have you played it? the you not Not yet, because I just haven't booted up Fortnite in forever. But I need to, because I know those are limited time events. So I definitely want to get a Sergio skin. Like, that's mandatory. Girl,
02:14:42
Speaker
I hate to tell you, but like it's it's similar to Sinners, where you cannot get any skins from the movie. There are no ways to be these characters. You only interact with these characters as NPCs in a larger like mission, right?
02:14:57
Speaker
So... but I'm getting absolutely absolutely angry right now. I want to we have i flip stuff over. I've only played the first level, right? And it's like 10 levels, right?
02:15:08
Speaker
And what they did was they took like line, the audio dialogues from the characters and they rearranged them to fit within these missions. And and the missions are like these these disjointed like levels of rebellion, right?
02:15:23
Speaker
Liberated immigrant detention centers or... You're just like the first level, you have to like jump around the rooftops like Leo, but like it's it's more so to get to a place where you have a fight, right?
02:15:36
Speaker
And then there's like a time-waste-y thing where you have to like throw tubes over like pins, almost like you're in a carnival. And then like it it apexes with like a fight in the desert. That's like unreasonably difficult.
02:15:49
Speaker
the The way would describe the one battle after another Fortnite... crossover is it's
Riddick Series and Missed Storytelling Opportunities
02:15:55
Speaker
a PS3 licensed game. It's not like the PS2 licensed games where like there was a chance that they would be good.
02:16:01
Speaker
This one like for whatever reason there's just like weird elements that date it massively for the era. but there's There's invisible walls everywhere. at the and and I don't think we'll ever get that PS2 era like whenever you get another The Godfather game or even the Scarface game where it's like how are these that they ended up actually being good? Spider-Man 2?
02:16:23
Speaker
Spider-Man 2, the Chronicles of Riddick game, the second best thing out of the Riddick. I still would say pitch blank is my favorite thing, but then the Riddick game is better than like any of the other.
02:16:35
Speaker
I like the third. I like the third Riddick because it does an interesting structure with it. The part where it's got Carl Urban. It's got Carl Urban in the part where it's not Riddick. It's like the mercenaries POV and he's picking them off kind of like that. he's He's like Michael Myers just stalking them and you just see him like walk by and kill someone.
02:16:55
Speaker
I was like, they should just do a whole movie like that. That's that. It's like we don't need to have Riddick. I mean, yeah. He would never do that because of his ego where he needs to be the the main cool guy in it. But it's like, no, actually, just have Riddick. I mean, because that's the first pitch black where it's like, Riddick's kind of the problem. You know, it's like, yeah, you're on an alien planet, but you're like, no, this guy's a killer.
02:17:17
Speaker
Mm hmm. The problem with the Riddick series is that Vin Diesel felt too in love with it, right? Like he tried to turn it into something and it wasn't. He DMD'd out on it in terms of like, i oh, we need to go all in on the lore of Furians.
02:17:34
Speaker
like that's That's the race that he's from. Yeah. I felt like the game actually had a happy medium of lore stuff because it explains like, oh, you see how he gets his like eyes shine. But it's still because it's a game is still focused on like the immediate visceral things of like, no, you need to survive in this prison and get out. And and like it's not going into like and anyway, the history of the the these races. I'm like, I don't care about that.
02:18:04
Speaker
It's so self-serving and in an actor brain sense, that's interesting. Right. But from like a, you know, trying to enjoy like and new avenue of science fiction fantasy. Right. Like it just did not meet the moment, you know, and it it's largely held back by, you know, Vin Diesel's own lack of imagination, unfortunately. But It's still interesting from like a what could have been, you know, there could have been a universe where like Riddick turned into the new Star Wars.
02:18:36
Speaker
I mean, just the fact that there is like as this, there's like a dumb dude bro Dune, which is kind of what the Chronicles of Riddick movie has the vibes of. It was like, like, what if Dune's just like really, really dumb?
02:18:50
Speaker
It's like that has a charm. And like Dune's pretty dumb already. Right. Right. here is You're adding some more dumb juice on top of it. You're like, no, Judi Dench is here for some reason. And she's going to explain that how Diesel is the chosen one.
02:19:06
Speaker
Oh, give me more. Put it in a blender. like Come on. I want all that juice. Like, come on. Anyway, ah lordd bail this du very another lore heavy movie. Just a lot of lore. Paul Thomas Anderson's Chronicles of Riddick, if you will. I mean, it you know, we already said Star Wars.
02:19:25
Speaker
It's kind of Tron legacy. you know, you were he's looking for his dad. Or it's an inverse because he's looking for his dad in Tron legacy. But this is a dad looking for his daughter. you know, it's the Garrett Edlund of this movie. A guy we all remember and love.
02:19:45
Speaker
I mean, it's it's because he would show up and stuff like when he shows up in Llewellyn Davis, he's like really good. I mean, everyone can be anyone can be really good at Coen Brothers movie because they're Coen Brothers. But I'm like, why?
02:19:58
Speaker
Why didn't this happen? Why did no one figure it out how to do anything with him? And then he just kind of vanished. vanished It's not for a lack of trying. They they tried really hard with him, and they they just never found a way to make it work, right? Like, he he was just always in things. They would find a way, right?
02:20:18
Speaker
oh He started in four brothers. they they They were trying so hard in, like, 2007, and it went all the to, like, 2015. Well, when did Triple Frontier come out? That's the last thing I saw him in, uh... I'll be honest, like I heard a lot hubbub about that movie. I watched it one time.
02:20:38
Speaker
One eyeball out the other, you know, I just completely forgot it. I kind of like it. don't know. I as like because I went in expecting an action movie and then i was like, oh, this is like actually a sadder, more melancholy. but it's It's like a dumber.
02:20:55
Speaker
Treasurer Sierra Madre because it's just like, just, oh, about greed. Because that's like the Ben Affleck character doesn't even want to go on the heist. And then by the end, that's he's that's what ends up killing him is that he gets too greedy. It's like they they're literally being weighed down by the, we see like the the helicopter can't carry all that money. They're literally being weighed down by their greed. but i need Maybe I need to lock in again. Maybe I need to watch. I like, everybody see like, like, I like,
02:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, I like JC Chandor, or at least I thought he could have pre-craven, or maybe he could still turn it into something. ah But i like starting off with, because Margin Call, All is Lost, The Most Violent Year, those those are all good.
02:21:39
Speaker
especially margin call. make Kraven to Kraven, you know, and then he's really in it. But the second Kraven is just like kind of a margin call remake. It's actually about like the housing market and and Kevin Spacey is also back for some reason.
02:21:55
Speaker
Oh, for sure. He's uncanceled now. he's He's chill now. And this is this Kraven like in a suit just like on the computer? Like you he may never he never fights any bad guys. It's just played straight.
02:22:08
Speaker
Is Spacey like back back? Because like I know he had that Amazon. I was joking. Yeah, I was i was like, i so I think he's still like radioactive, right? I hope
Willa's Mother's Betrayal and Identity Impact
02:22:18
Speaker
so. I saw Peter 5'8". That movie was terrible.
02:22:21
Speaker
Like yeah he he shouldn't come back, you know, like, come on he's he's gone for a reason. uh let's bring it back to one battle after without hair like but but we were talking about chase infinity uh the if we lift off on the regina hall right what i love being introduced to this ah convent of nuns you know and the leader of the nuns is uh the woman who is uh interviewing tom cruise and magnolia ah like it it is just like that's awesome
02:22:53
Speaker
Right. Like PTA is pulling all the stops in terms of like what he can do here. Right. And the the convent is the thing that tells ah in Willa, you know, like the truth about her mother. Right.
02:23:08
Speaker
And. You see it on Chase Infinity's face from that moment on, right? Where she feels so, like, lied to and and insufficient in many ways, learning that her mother was a rat, right? Because is there's no worse thing a revolutionary can be than a rat, right?
02:23:26
Speaker
Well, it's one revelation after another, intended, because it's not just her mother was a rat. Then she has to find out that her father was this...
02:23:37
Speaker
ah white supremacist piece of shit. And it it I mean, what does that do to your sense of self? Like, that it's like my whole life is a lie. And that sequence is played beautifully. Right. Because it's this clear visual language that Lockjaw gives her. Right. He's like, if this line is straight, we've got a problem.
02:23:57
Speaker
If it's not, I'll let you go. Right. And the question is already in the back of your mind. Right. Where it's like, if they're not related, does he let her live? Right. I mean, it's still... Maybe he does?
02:24:09
Speaker
Maybe he does just keep because he's spineless and it's already, like, a it such a a stretch and inconvenience for him to eliminate her when she is real. Because, like, he can't even do that himself. It's, like, a whole thing.
02:24:22
Speaker
So, like, if he could just, like... And yet part of him still loves Yana Taylor, right? Like, yeah he doesn't want to do that to her kid, I feel, almost. But at the same time, like...
02:24:34
Speaker
he is that callous that he would abduct a 16 year old to put her in this position. Right. So it's like it could go either way. And that's in my mind, at least, you know, because it could be invalidating in the way of like, if it's Leo's kid, then it's like, oh, well, he was the one then who had yeah perfidia's heart and so fuck fuck her you know then that's like I had this child's nothing to me because we've seen how he reacts when he doesn't get what he wants so it's like yes he doesn't want her to be his because that it in jeopardizes his whole Christmas adventures but I think he wants her to be his from the perspective of where he thinks that what he and perfidia had was real mm-hmm
02:25:17
Speaker
Yes. and And also, like, wi when he's understanding that that's his kin, right? Like, it that's when he's flipped over, right? Like, that he does care more about the Christmas Adventurers Club, right?
02:25:33
Speaker
He doesn't have the full, like... Moment where he like sees her as a person, right? She's just a problem to deal with. But is that born more so from the jealousy of DiCaprio raising her, right?
02:25:46
Speaker
that is it Is it because he has the pain of like not being able to raise her and that now he has to just reject her because he wasn't her father, right? That he couldn't instill those morals in her as backwards as they are, right?
02:26:00
Speaker
it It's weird because it's like, It's that's the ultimate cucking really is like understanding that he had that daughter, but he couldn't have that daughter in that sense. You know, that's what I meant before when I was like, even though he technically cucked Leo, that he is still the cuck because he,
02:26:18
Speaker
was shut out from ever having anything real with profity or any, any like actual love. And like the, what a child is like a physical manifestation of is supposed to be the physical manifestation a love between like two partners. And
Hitman's Moral Code and Western Themes
02:26:35
Speaker
so, but, but the fact that he could never,
02:26:38
Speaker
ah have that i mean, yeah in real life, a father can enter into someone's life late in life and they can you know form a but bond then. But that's never going to happen with Lockjaw. That's never there is no world in which he could do that and be that father to to willa so that like yeah i think that that's like a further infuriating to him that that he did makes him double down on the christmas adventures of it all but he still cannot do that himself like because he's a coward he's like i e yeah yeah i i don't even think it's like a moral like i won't kill a child it's just that he himself is so spineless that he won't
02:27:20
Speaker
himself like he'll send her to her death that's what he's expecting when he hands her off to this this bounty hunter and I like that you already hear the bounty hunter being discussed by the Christmas adventurers of like yeah he's you know he's mixed so we can't really trust him fully ah and like you know of like oh where do his loyalties really lie even if he you know has done stuff for for for lockjaw but it's like no his loyalty is tested for it's not like a racial thing it's it's more morality basic and human empathy where you like that that was the kind of western connection i was talking about where you always have like you know these outlaw characters in westerns where it's like no women and children or like i don't do kids or something
02:28:08
Speaker
And that's ah reasonably aligned for him where he's like, I don't do that. So then he's basically tasked to then deliver her to guys who seem like Boogaloo bros or something. they They're white supremacists. they're that They're like called like the 1776 guys or whatever. Like they they've got that number associated with them, though. And whenever I know that guys are too obsessed with that number, they're a problem, you know? Yeah.
02:28:34
Speaker
If you're too obsessed with like anything about the Revolutionary War, like the Founding Father, if you're co-opting that aesthetic at all, you start getting some Bioshock evidence stuff. I'm like, there's something going on five.
02:28:47
Speaker
Yeah. Too much. Too much, guys. You got to yeah tone him that back a bit. you're you're You're taking a bit too much from that. and and And you're right that it like the the line in the sand being very Western-y in the sense that it comes down to just like base morality, right? yeah With that, ah you know, hitman character, he he makes it clear, he's like, I don't kill kids.
02:29:08
Speaker
And that's a fair... Look, if you're a hitman and you and you've made it peace in your mind that you kill people for a living, right? If you draw the line at kids, that's fair in my books, you know? Because think who needs that? if If you're already at the point where you're paying money to someone to eliminate a child, it's like...
02:29:28
Speaker
what the fuck is going on here? that that then You need a kid eliminated. that they they're How could they have bothered anyone to the point where you need them gone? And he tries to make up some lie to to him when he's locked. was like, yeah, yeah, she's like a drug smuggler or something, he says, or she was working with like drug smugglers he he makes up some lie about about about that about drug trafficking but it's like he would probably likely know he's already found where bob and willow were for lockjaw like they he was like that's how he found them was through this guy big and when when he caught the other guy from the french so So he probably already knows about Will and the fact that he's bullshit. He can't even take to his face of like, yeah, I need her gone because that's like I'm trying to get into like a white supremacist club.
02:30:20
Speaker
And bringing it back to him, right? Like he what he's doing is ah horrendous, right? But it's like... he struggled to relate to the Christmas Adventurers Club without would all of this stuff, right? Like he he was struggling to be considered a normal, ge he can't relate to anybody, right? He was already blowing that interview when they asked him about outstanding debts and he started going into his jet ski.
02:30:45
Speaker
You can see the look on their face where you're like, third they don't really know what to make of what they're hearing. They're like, I guess that's not disqualifying.
02:30:56
Speaker
but I don't know if I like you now. You guys, it's kind like their vibe. That answer was bad. You know, like he, he really let his like anger show. Right. And, and the reality is is that he, he can't relate to people.
02:31:11
Speaker
Right. And, and he, his goofiness always stems from like him desperately trying so hard to like relate to some kind of perceived person.
02:31:22
Speaker
reality that he just never will know like what what does he say when it's revealed that like he is her daughter right and they're in the church and she's terrified he's like we're gonna play some daddy daughter games remember right like he can't help but like try to rationalize it into like some kind of reality that he will never experience Yeah, ah that's it. I love that saying we already referenced the like, why is why is your shirt so tight tight? Because it's like even then that that should, even the confirmation that it's his, he is he will never receive any kind of validation and he's perpetually in this state of insecurity because he's not going to get anything from from Willa, even her finding like that he's, that doesn't,
02:32:12
Speaker
if If anything, that just colors how poorly she thinks of her mother. Like, it's not going to endear her to him, to Lockjaw, that he suddenly... like ah I mean, she she does ask questions of, like, did you, like, love her? Like, because I...
02:32:30
Speaker
Which is a complicated thing. I mean, like to ask a guy like that there who is probably going to have you killed. But like, I i guess I would want to know, too, of like, OK, so wait, what was that relationship that I was the result of it? ah Like, i I would want to know.
02:32:49
Speaker
yeah and And she's fair to know. Right. Like, in and he of course, the answer is the way he does. Right. Because, like, he does not know how to actually, like, express himself in any healthy way. Right.
Revolutionary Acts as Expressions of Love
02:33:03
Speaker
It goes back to what we were talking about, what this film is all about. Right. Like revolutionary acts as a way of love. Right. Right. He he can't stand up for what he believes because he is so obsessed with the way things are supposed to be because of where his station in life is.
02:33:20
Speaker
Right. And like maybe it has something to do with class because like ghetto ah Todd is his name, right? Yeah. Clearly, yeah he's a place from a place of closer to, you know, intersectionality than Lockdraver was. He seems like he was always established, right?
02:33:38
Speaker
He will never know struggle or pain, right, in the real sense. So the instead, he just puts himself in this cage at all points, right? And I want relate that to Chase Infinity's performance a bit, because like Sean Penn is so rigid, right? And the way that he's performing it and is his decisions as an actor is so like audit out like weeks ahead of time. Like he read the script and he like really studied what he was going to do.
02:34:03
Speaker
Right. and And Chase Infinity is so fluid as a performer. Right. It feels real like raw emotion, like actual raw emotion. So like... Like the the the part at the, like, skipping around, like, it at the very end when she's reunited with Bob and her, like, you know, yelling at him to say the the the code word. I also love this, like, old sitcoms that they have to, like, just, like, Green Acres, Beverly Hill Billies.
02:34:31
Speaker
It was a petticoat junction or something. this other one But that he's not saying it back and she's not lowering her gun. Like, I almost thought that, like, that there was going to be some kind of incident where she where she shoots...
02:34:43
Speaker
Bob, but like it's a very clear trauma response of it and they of her just being like, who are you? good Because that's like, you her whole reality has been inverted now because of this of like, yeah, I i knew one reality of you were my father and my mom was dead and she was a hero. But now I don't know anything anymore. So who the fuck are you? It's like that that day like you were.
02:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, he fucked up. Right. And he in in that moment, he realizes that his thing of like not being so truthful for to her in an active love to protect her was ultimately the thing that was going to be the source of her trauma. Right.
02:35:24
Speaker
And in that moment, he realized hard he failed desperately as a parent. Right. And but at the same time, right, she recognizes that he was the only one who treated her with the respect that she deserved and also is the only person who will truly have her back when all of this is said and done.
02:35:43
Speaker
Right. Like not even just from that action said piece moment, but like he will work through this. He will work better to try to better understand because that's what makes Bob Ferguson great.
02:35:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Even though he is, you know, lacking in many regards. Right. And we've talked about those regards earlier on in the podcast. He will work to try to be better because even though he is ah revolutionary of the past, he understands that that connection is what trumps all of it. And
Film's Triumphant but Uncertain Ending
02:36:13
Speaker
that's what makes him a revolutionary.
02:36:14
Speaker
And it's what's going to make her an even better revolutionary than him. Right. Which is like why the it feels triumphant and almost like it. I. Going back to what you said about her arc feeling Spielbergian, the ending could have felt a little too treacly in someone else's hands of like where you have it feels very triumphant when she's taking off. And like you're like, oh, well, she's carrying this revolutionary torch now. But, you know, may ah this with a sense of hope that this time it's they're going to get it.
02:36:47
Speaker
Right, but I think it works because there's still the element of uncertainty. Like, there can't be certainty because it is just one battle after another. There's not actual like an actual defined end point to it.
02:37:01
Speaker
ah but But also, it um the messiness of how we got to this point i also helps it. It feels it feels
Generational Challenges and Systemic Issues
02:37:10
Speaker
earned that you can have this triumphant moment of her driving off it at the end.
02:37:14
Speaker
But it also is you know, she had to mature to get to that point. They've all had to go through, ah yeah a you know, had to mature to to get there.
02:37:26
Speaker
Although it is funny that like the shorthand for Leo's growth is like, he has an iPhone now. It's like they maybe shouldn't be using iPhones from a, especially if she's still going to be out there doing like, you know, the rabble rousing that those things, They share your data with law enforcement. yeah oh Put that straight out there. That's it's not a hack-proof device.
02:37:53
Speaker
They've killed multiple members of the Christmas Adventurers Club. you know like Something would tell me that they would be even bigger targets you know by the end. but like Right. like him Is it just like... with with killing lock Joe, they can close off the loop because they're like, well, we lost one guy going after the girl. So do we just cut our losses? But it's like, i don't know. They're, they're a white supremacist cabal with it's seeming, there doesn't seem to be a limit to their like reach. So I,
02:38:20
Speaker
They might just keep coming after you. There was no logic there to begin with. Right. So, like, you know, maybe they do just let it go because it was, you know, never truly thought out well in the first place. Right. But then also you're right. It's built off of like spite and petty anger. Right. So who knows if they'll keep to going. Right. Right.
02:38:38
Speaker
ah But to bring it back to something you were saying before about ah similarity to the Matrix, right? ah There's that action set piece where she's being chased by the other guy in the Christmas Adventurers Club, right?
02:38:50
Speaker
And you you get that amazing, like, long lens shot where you're going up and down over the road, right? and i And I view that as, like, almost like Neo understanding these powers in the Matrix, right? Where she's able to, like...
02:39:05
Speaker
Stop seeing the road as this, like, one hill after another. there's This constant struggle that she needs to, like, best, right? And instead is able to and exist within the terrain and turn it against her enemy how in a way that's, like, above it all, you know?
02:39:25
Speaker
and It's something that you don't really see in ah you know, may revolutionary films, the way that it's like how you become somebody who overtakes the system, you know.
02:39:37
Speaker
And I feel like this moment is her overtaking the system in a way that where she's able to exist within the realm that she's already existing within, m but then is able to subvert it on its head in a way that people of the past just can't comprehend. Because even if ah that bounty hunter, you know, uncuffed her and took out those those boogaloo boys at the at the dock, she ultimately has to save herself.
02:40:01
Speaker
Like, that did she's the one who who takes this this guy out with a very ingenious, like, little trap of her being like, okay, I'm ahead enough. I'll leave the car out. He's not going to see it because of the bend.
02:40:12
Speaker
And then she set up the perfect vantage point to take him out. And she does it. Like... ah It works. ah Yeah, is ah it's a good that's a good call. Not just the moment where Neo can see the code when he's fully the one, but I also think that that's like the actual self-actualization happens before he actually dies and resurrected and when he like fights Smith in the subway. when he like just The whole movie, he's been you know in denial that he's the one or that he could...
02:40:42
Speaker
you know can can do any of that, but he's like, oh, I'm going to fight Smith, like choosing to stay and fight, even though logically you shoot your own. Like this is a guy who can, you know, regenerate in perpetuity. So, and in a way, white supremacy generates in perpetuity. You take out that one guy, that's just one guy. Like it does seem like, yeah, he is high in the ranks of the Christmas Adventurers.
02:41:07
Speaker
There's not like a clear... structure I mean, it seems like ah Downey is like the head guy they answer to there. But you're ah it's like ah like, oh, is there like, are they just one chapter and there's like a larger but but that That's all unclear. But it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere anywhere anytime soon.
02:41:25
Speaker
You know, because like I said, like Milded Supremises are, they're the ones running everything. So they they're they're there and they're not really, you take one out, that's not the end of it. As we've discussed on this pod already, right? Like America is kind of founded on white supremacy, right? So it's like the ah idea that they can just simply go away because you killed a couple of guys, you know, not likely, right? But the bigger question is like, is the Christmas Adventurers Club like the only version of this that's around, right? is that Are there several disjointed white supremacy groups that are controlling from the shadows that all have their own names, right?
02:42:04
Speaker
And this is just the one that Lockjaw happened to be a part of, right? Is it that this is a larger web that they all have their own connections and we're only seeing the few powerful ones?
02:42:15
Speaker
Who knows? Ultimately, it doesn't matter, right? Because ultimately, it's like really down to the individuals who push back and they make those day-to-day fights, right?
02:42:25
Speaker
And like you were saying, like it's ah Chase Infinity being able to... see the world is not like Neo being able to see the code like in the later films but it's more like that fight in the ah subway where Neo kind of like does that flex you know and you see the world kind of bend around him right that's what the ending of this movie is right like Chase Infinity is able to bend the reality around herself When when she kills the guy coming out of the car. Right. Like he she kills him and then she fires a few more shots.
02:42:56
Speaker
Right. And it's because she almost can't believe what she just pulled off. Right. Because she was so confident that moment that she was able to get the best of everybody. Right. Well, he wasn't he wasn't he wasn't dead from the one shot. So she smartly, you know, it's like she's she's out doing rookie mistakes in terms of like you she's not just double tap and she's like triple tap that. Yeah.
02:43:17
Speaker
and like I love the reaction at the convent when Regina Hall sees her firing. but Because she definitely, that's like, there's like a concerned look on her face. And it's like, it's because she sees Perfidia in her. like ah And that's the concern that the the one nun has. It's like, i see her in there too. And that's, Perfidia caused problems for us So, like, is this going to be more problems?
02:43:44
Speaker
but But it's interesting because like if she knew that she was a rat from her birth, right, then she would probably like have longer amount of time to like kind of like rationalize it almost, you know, in terms with it a bit. Right.
02:43:58
Speaker
I feel like the shock to the system that she has to suffer where it's like she was a hero in her eyes and then she is brought to nothing. Right. To where Chase now has to just be herself.
02:44:08
Speaker
Right. And that's what she has to rely upon within the ending of the song. It's not any of these hangups of what she's supposed to be. right That she is purely acting on instinct and survival in those moments. right That's how she makes the name for herself. right like ah yeah It's just a moment of action. right But like after she gets saved from the the the hitman and she runs behind the car and you see her like...
02:44:34
Speaker
throw the arms underneath her and she brings the arms up to her front right yeah and i'm thinking about it it's like up until that point jace infinity has literally been like acting with her arms tied behind her back right and now she's at the point where she's able to like take control of the movie a bit and be in that seat of her own life right and when she's there and she's a fucking slar you know like you it' so it's clear if it wasn't clear before then you're like oh we're incapable hands here I mean, it's just her visual too. low nine
02:45:05
Speaker
Her hand's still cover her we're holding that gun. like Like, good that's... that's like i Well, I guess people won't be carrying around guns in the Halloween costume, but there's a lot had Halloween costumes from where you can get from from this movie.
02:45:18
Speaker
Ah. For sure, for sure. and And something else I wanted to say was that the way that she is taking control versus like the way that her mother took control are completely different, right?
02:45:30
Speaker
Like Tiana Taylor is, Perfidia, is so much more about playing off of like people's insecurities and using that to what to her game, right?
02:45:40
Speaker
And there's a playfulness to it, right? she And death is so much far removed from her... element of crime right to where when she does have to kill it's a shock to the system willa has to kill to survive right like and that's a reflection that's less than one yeah that that's like her intro to it exactly right and and like that's a reflection of how the times have gotten even more desperate while also saying like This is where Willa has to start from and build out from rather than like learn to come to terms with death.
02:46:17
Speaker
And I think that's a really interesting way of inverting that revolutionary tendency on its head. Well, it speaks to the generational divide that we've said of like Gen Z or, or you know, any, i guess Gen Alpha is the one after any, any generations going forward.
02:46:34
Speaker
They are starting from a harder setting, starting place because things are so fucked now because gen X moved into apathy, you know, and, and letting the fascists run amok that it's, it's, that's the, the, now the threshold is higher and,
02:46:51
Speaker
You might have to kill some of them. I don't know. The movie we never presents violence against the state. Like, yes, when Perfidia kills that guard, that's like, oh, this is like, you know, she the she she's broken a little bit in terms of like that. This is a bridge too far. But in terms of like actual violence ah against the state itself is never portrayed as wrong. in the movie. So, yeah, it's completely just I mean, though you're horrified when you're seeing the French 75 be hunted down and kill bed. That's horrifying. But in terms of like anything, any revolutionary ah kind of violence is justified. Well, like the state is never shown to do anything that helps the public.
02:47:34
Speaker
Right. Like we like I've alluded to, we see ice attainment centers in this film. And when we do, right, like they don't really make a big deal about it. They just kind of show you there, right? Like you see kids separated from their parents.
02:47:49
Speaker
Right. See the living conditions. You see them in cages. Right. You see them on the concrete floor with tinfoil. Right. You see them outside with nothing. Right. Right.
02:48:00
Speaker
And it it's it's speaking to this like dehumanization that's coming alongside the supposed peacekeepers. Right. And then you pair that with like when they're in Sergio's town. Right.
02:48:13
Speaker
And you see the cop pull up in the car and he comes out and he's got the Molotov cocktail and he throws it. Right. I love how cant they just call that in because they like they know they need the excuse to escalate.
02:48:26
Speaker
And it's
Film's Cultural Narrative Impact
02:48:27
Speaker
like, no, we're ready with that. I mean, there was so much of 2020 wasn't that long ago. We've already had movies about 2020, like with the Eddington. But to just state so plainly of like.
02:48:39
Speaker
Yeah, they obviously there, you know, be all these instances of, at you know, protests that happened that that summer that then escalated where it's like, ah yeah, what happened where it tipped off and and into being, you know, quote, unquote, a riot or it turned violent and it would be like people who were like, are you? where do these pallets of bricks come from? They would be in at some at some of those protests. It's like, they will deploy that very easily. Like, it's a hesitation on their part because, you know, they they need very little excuse to do it whatever they want to, but they know that they have to at least, like, optically, like, earn the right to smash your face into the pavement. So they, like, you know, they they're ready to go with pulling out, yeah know ah of you know, like, a false flag. They need a reason to escalate, not the other way around.
02:49:32
Speaker
Right. And it's like they are just looking for the permission to do that. Right. And people who are in these situations, ah in a protest or something, they're not looking to be violent, right? Like they often are just looking for their voices to be heard.
02:49:48
Speaker
So like you were saying, the 2020, right? You know, it's how these people are being manipulated. It's how the their causes are being like turned into worse than they actually are, right? And it's how the state is manufacturing the cruelty that it can and inflict upon its own people, right?
02:50:07
Speaker
Yeah. and and ah And there's something because in reality, it's not just like a guy out of a van at a thing. They're definitely embedding people into movements like themselves to try and like joke steer them in the wrong direction. Like you just have them go to meetings and then they're in for then the next thing they're influencing the actions of the movement. So then they they can react, crack down on them stronger. Like that's that's not conspiratorial. they Like this is real stuff that's been going on. True.
02:50:37
Speaker
This has been happening since, you know, at least the six, you know, like you like they were doing this there in the civil rights movement. Like this is like, like just look up COINTELPRO and like all the shit that they were doing with with that.
02:50:48
Speaker
An excellent ah companion piece to this film is Uptight, the Jules de Sonde film, you know, like it that film was... made right as MLK was killed, you know, like yeah these things are echoes throughout history time and time again. Right.
02:51:05
Speaker
And while we've hauled out how this film is not like, you know, trying to be so specific in its political ideology or be like the best representation of like you know, radical leftist ideologies, right?
02:51:19
Speaker
It's how plainly it's calling these things out and how plainly it depicts these things to where it truly just becomes black and white, where you clearly can just see like, this is how these things happen.
02:51:30
Speaker
And that's the value in this film where it's like, now there is this representation of this thing happening and we all know it to be true. And it can be this easy thing that we point to and just go, okay.
02:51:42
Speaker
that That was a perfect representation of how all of these things can unravel in that way. Yeah, I really, i mean, besides rooting for the movie itself in terms of like, you know, I get annoyed when people start doing like Oscar predictions that this early and I'm not fully like, so you know, like making that. I brought up like...
02:52:03
Speaker
nominations that should happen. I'm not like fully like mapping out like, oh, who I want to get get what. and It's more just me being excited for what the movie is doing and what it represents. But I'm i'm more interested rather than in the actual box office or any accolades of like, what is the cultural takeaway will be? Like, because I think because like you said, it's putting all this very plainly.
02:52:31
Speaker
ah it It could change some hearts and minds and in a in a way because it's it's it's just laying it out there so plainly more than in a way when because we we we've talked about it other records when we were talking about the the politics of of of James Gunn Superman, like regardless of what he says, don't.
02:52:53
Speaker
That movie just at least gesturing at some ah you so stuff in regards to ah Israel in Palestine. I know you. Did you see the recent thing read the night? He's like, yeah, yeah. I wrote this before that ah It's like, oh, so you wrote this in like the 30s or so. like like you did to you how i go to He's his ass.
02:53:14
Speaker
I know he he's covering his ass. That's what he's doing. And my studio head part of him has kicked in and like has has to do damage control for James Gunn, the creative. of of I think that bet that's what we're seeing there.
02:53:27
Speaker
But a lot of it's easy, easier to walk away from that movie because like I know plenty of people who conservative leanings who saw as Superman and loved it, but then they're they're not changing where they feel that doesn't move the needle for them on like how they feel about like immigrants or like, you know, any or, you know, the Middle East or are anything because it's very one is a superhero movie, but also, you that that's not the the like main driving engine of that movie even if it's alluding to some stuff whereas one battle after another even if there is that emotional core that like kind of supersedes the politics the politics are just plainly there and there's not like any obfuscating of it
02:54:12
Speaker
that Like, like, you're not going to see PTA try to do a gun in an interview where he's like, ah, I wasn't even thinking about ICE when I like did those those protests. See, I didn't even occur to me.
02:54:24
Speaker
The worst that they'll do is they'll try to do like the whole like, oh, both sides have their extremes. Right. And try to do it that way. Right. There's already been some of there was like a red carpet thing where the guy who sounds like Grover cornered Benicio del Toro asked him about the film's politics. And Benicio just gave some like answer of like, yeah, left to right. You know, everything everything's gotten crazy when it's like, yeah, we we see the radical leftist in this movie and they're justified. Like they ever there's not like.
02:54:54
Speaker
Yeah, one of them gets in over their heads and causes problems for everyone. But the movement itself is just like that there there's never any like ah ambiguity about that. And to bring it to the James Gunn thing and then back to the Oscars a bit, like with James Gunn, like...
02:55:11
Speaker
Like you said, he's in a business position. He's going to do that. Right. But at the end of the day, like if you were truly Zionist, like you'd be mad that people were interpreting the film that way. Right. And the fact that he's been doing like, you can take it however way you want. Read it. i show it How you will wink. Yeah. Wink. Yeah.
02:55:29
Speaker
who Exactly. Right. And he keeps going, I'm happy that people are able to take it whatever way they want. Like he keeps making that like the structure of what ah of that statement. Right. So so real and also that's just like what an artist with integrity is supposed to do. Right. Like let you read it. Yeah.
02:55:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's the David Lynch approach of like, I'm not going to tell you how to feel about this or like what the film is saying, because the film is speaking. And also, like when you make a piece of art, there's a point where the thing gets away from you.
02:56:01
Speaker
Right. And if the thing that got away from James Gunn is that they saw Superman as the you know pro-Palestinian king. You know what?
02:56:12
Speaker
Let them have it. You know, and he knows that he's like, let them have of it, because ultimately that's just better for everyone. If that's the way that people take it rather than try to like have some kind of ownership over it.
02:56:23
Speaker
Right. Bringing it back over to one battle after another. and and I get what you mean about, you know, Oscars and, you know, do they really matter? All that stuff. No, they don't. But then also like they can inspire like cultural change just on that level.
02:56:38
Speaker
right and And I think that if, like, one battle after another does, you know, have some big success in an awards context, yeah it would probably be like a new parasite.
02:56:51
Speaker
I feel like it would be like a situation where, like, everyone has to kind of take a second, step back, and go, okay, something has been expressed and we need to, like... Dig into this more.
02:57:02
Speaker
and And I wouldn't be yeah surprised if like it changes the way that people talk about things as well as like how they approach this topic in films going forward. And I think this is a film that has the potential.
02:57:14
Speaker
I think it has the potential for that. And then also just on the level of... You know, I've on this podcast and in my posting are I'm always, you know, ragging against the modern studio system of like that the the the budgets have become too inflated. And that's not even reflected in in the films themselves. And like this is to be clear, this, you know, one hundred fifty million dollar budget is this large budget, especially for for for PTA.
02:57:44
Speaker
But it's also i think the success of the movie could show. That you can you could even still have something that's epic in scale without going, you know, like the average Marvel movie is you're like between 300 and 500 million, depending on how many times they've reshot it. you Like it could then, you know, double it for budget for marketing or whatever. it's.
02:58:07
Speaker
ah is I you don't need that to to capture something on a sweeping large scale like even our bigger movies could be smaller in a way and I think this this movie it's not small by any means because like we said it is it's it is an epic but it also didn't need to you know could cost like a billion dollars to make. Well, like, it's the question of value, right? And with a lot of the films that are made these days, right? Like, the idea of value is, like, we spend $200 million dollars on it.
02:58:43
Speaker
And if it makes $500 million, dollars then, like, hey hey, we did it, you know? And everything is this, like, go for broke kind of approach, right? But in the process of chasing this model, they've forgotten what it means to control...
02:58:58
Speaker
the top, like, sorry,
Revolutionary Themes in Media
02:58:59
Speaker
to control the narrative, you know, as crazy as that sounds, right? And especially crazy as that sounds in the relation to this film where it's all about striking out on your own.
02:59:09
Speaker
But if you create a film that's able to strike to the heart of what everybody's feeling, And you're able to make a film that, you know, says all these things and also changes the way that people talk about these things going forward to where they make these like larger societal concepts easier for people to grasp.
02:59:26
Speaker
You're controlling part of the culture. Right. And Warner Brothers has to know that, you know, that they're changing the way that the culture is going to kind of approach these things going forward.
02:59:37
Speaker
And that itself matters more than superhero movies that is completely artificially controlling the culture through television. suppression You know, through just like sheer volume and and and control over the space.
02:59:53
Speaker
That's the way that those films control culture. Right. But something like One Battle After Another, something like Parasite organically does that. And what that does is it builds a legacy, not just for the film studio, but for the way that people talk about how they relate to one another.
03:00:10
Speaker
And if we're talking about it from the cynical film studio landscape, you know, that has immense value because that means that your studio is in control of the things that control those narratives, meaning you're welcoming in those voices and they feel comfortable to do so under your purview.
03:00:27
Speaker
But then on the flip side, you also have it from this artist's standpoint. where it's like you're allowing these but these artists actually express these things again, separate from this ecosystem that is controlled by literal suppression instilled from uniformity under superheroes, right?
03:00:45
Speaker
Once you remove that from the equation and people are able to just like express on this bigger scale again, what you get is more honest the expression. You get a more clear eyed view of what the way the world is separate from the IPs that connect them all.
03:01:01
Speaker
Right. So it's a win win for studios because you can still make a profitable movie that, you know, you like you said, you could control the narrative. But then also, if you give the artists the freedom to express an actual idea, know,
03:01:17
Speaker
That's ah that's also good for you. who So you're like like winning on all fronts. They literally lost sight of what like letting people express what's right. Because that was the thing that made any film studio worth a doubt.
03:01:31
Speaker
Right. And the only reason that anyone showed up to those Marvel movies was because they started up as the scrappy guys in the beginning. Oh, how crazy would it be for us to make a interconnected universe?
03:01:42
Speaker
There's no way we could ever do that. It itself was a feat in filmmaking when it first started. you know and And they started with Iron Man, who was like, yes, a known character, but in terms of like Marvel, like... ah he's like a b-tier like he was he's not like the the main bar you know like it's s spider-man x-men even like a lot of other characters before iron man so to make it that robert downey jr in an iron man movie was like the foundation that they were able to like keep building that momentum off of was like It initially did have the little engine that could energy where you're like, oh, fucking look at him go.
03:02:23
Speaker
And and ah what was it all in service of? It was all in service of corporations. i know Stopping Thanos. It wasn't that. We had to get the stones. I wish they were ca chaos emeralds. Then I would have respected it more.
03:02:37
Speaker
But the the the the problem is that, like, when you build all of your entertainment around, like, these fictional ideals that mean nothing in the real world, right, you create, like, an empty signifier, right?
03:02:51
Speaker
if and If anything, because they're empty, they leave the room to get get the wrong read. Because i I feel like we've brought this up before of, like... Superheroes, it's kind of an inherently fascist idea. and White supremacist. it's Alan Moore quote, the birth of a nation was the first superhero movie. You know, that's like the did a strong man enforces their will. And that's like, that's...
03:03:21
Speaker
Literally in a lot of those movies where it's like, no, fuck government oversight. i Captain America, will do whatever I want to do. You cannot tell me. No one, not even the federal government, could, like, oversight, see what I am doing. And you're like, yeah, go, Cap, because you're, like, sticking to him. But you're like, wait a minute. What is the this movie actually saying? Yeah.
03:03:44
Speaker
And then they always have these villains that like they they portray as like, oh, they're complex. Right. But in reality, it's just like the the villains represent something that like the general public actually wants. Right.
03:03:56
Speaker
And they've just put them in like a position where they have to be the bad guy. Right. Right, like Hillmonger is Black Panther, who's like... 100%. I think we should empower Black revolutionaries. And then we're like, wait, is he the bad guy? And by the end, they just have to make him be like, actually, I've decided I want to kill everyone, just so he can be like, oh, Black Panther has to stop them, because that's... Killing everyone's bad.
03:04:22
Speaker
That's the problem with revolutionaries, is, you know, eat you give a mouse a cookie, you know, i and then they... he They really just they just lose the plot. Right. and And to bring it back to this movie. Right. It's like it's this ah you know, it's not in service of these larger ideals, this larger conformity that needs to be in place, because at the end of the day.
03:04:44
Speaker
Revolutionary action is not one of selfishness, but one of love, which is the truth of the matter. Right. Like that that has never been the compulsion of anyone in a revolution. Right.
03:04:56
Speaker
But for so long, it's been, you know, painted that way through Hollywood film. Propaganda,
Criticism of Superhero Narratives
03:05:01
Speaker
right? And, you know, we've talked about what possibly this film could inspire, you know?
03:05:07
Speaker
I don't think this film's ever going to inspire a political or revolution. I think it's just going to inspire more honest conversation. And maybe that will lead down the line to that, you know? But that's how you win the one battle. I mean, do you want to?
03:05:19
Speaker
it's it Yeah, it's a domino effect. but It's one battle after another, so it's a continuous struggle. i legit think that good art, or at least the conversations that ah ah art with its heart in the right place can like push things in that direction. The conversation needs to start somewhere for that change. Film, even with the waning...
03:05:44
Speaker
pervasiveness of how many people actually go to the theaters, it's, it's you know, it's so so it's the populist, it's a populist medium. So yeah I think you could get those messages out in larger ways through these means. Well, the people haven't had a reason to show up, right?
03:06:00
Speaker
It's why Sinners did so well this year. It's why weapons did so well this year. It's why this movie will hopefully do so well this year. Right. People need a reason to show up to the theater again.
03:06:11
Speaker
Right. Because Marvel alone, that you know, your court ordered mandate of ah understand what happens in slop 73 by watching slop 74. You know, like it's it's it's. a When you give people something worth caring about, you know, when you when you are the one that's pushing things forward again, because that's the thing.
03:06:32
Speaker
Movies got stale. movie Movies fell into a uniformity by letting ah Marvel take control. And this is the only innovation that people pursued in the last, like...
03:06:44
Speaker
15 or more years was trying to make a connected cinematic universe so it was that everyone should even other superhero ah ah content producers probably shouldn't have been aspiring to do it's like no that's actually not something that should be the norm like that that like it was cool to see happen in real time initially for Marvel but because it was like it just hadn't been done in that way but it also then became still because they weren't actually in the movies themselves weren't innovating anything and it's the same issue that comics themselves have where it's like buckling under the weight of its continuity where it's like yeah you you proof it you're trying to keep one story going for like 20 years uh good luck making that be coherent and and actually something people want to see
03:07:40
Speaker
and and And it really comes down to just like people wake up one day, you know, like they, you can't keep the dream alive forever. Right. You can't tell the same all by over and over again.
03:07:53
Speaker
Right. And when reality comes in conjuncture with that, right. Like people can't just accept captain America a million times over when ice camps exist. Right.
03:08:04
Speaker
Like the world means something different now. Right. And, and, If those movies actually had real politics in them and that there was like an AB, even just like an acknowledgement of that stuff would make those movies more dynamic. Game of Thrones Superman.
03:08:23
Speaker
Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, even if I have qualms with how that movie ultimately delivers some of the message, especially like with the immigrant story of it at all, it's at least like its heart's in the right place. And the fact that it's like bringing that stuff up in a major, you know, Superman movie. It's trying, right? It is trying. And that's more than you can say than others. Right.
03:08:49
Speaker
And that's what this movie is doing. It's it's trying its ass off in every scene, in every moment. Right. It needs it to because it's life or death. Yeah. I mean, trying again, I think the 60, I mean, I really don't have any major, I mean, there was like points where I was like, man, I wish I wish i had more Regina Hall or I wish there was Benicio, but there is a power to the way that the, their departures from the film are implemented.
03:09:22
Speaker
And that you, like you said, it's, you know, it's, It's Bob Willa and then also Lockjaw, but like it their arcs ultimately have to be in service of the larger thing. So it it's i I think it's like though those aren't faults I actually have that, you know, that it's just me wanting being a spoiled child. Like, I want more cake.
03:09:46
Speaker
Give me more Benicio del Toro. there's you You just want more at all points, right? This movie would be six hours long. Well, I was imagining while was watching this movie, Warner Brothers was trying to cut this movie down, you know? And I'm like, what could you cut? What cut? You can't cut anything.
03:10:07
Speaker
i They would probably want to make the opening before the time cut. shorter but I'm like that's already kind of montage-y and you need that like that's the whole basis of everything so I'm like what the fuck do you cut?
03:10:23
Speaker
You
Emotional Core of Revolutionary Action
03:10:24
Speaker
can't anything. It's all integral which is like and imagining someone who would like want to cut anything it's like you just you don't understand it man you you don't get you need to have Sean Penn with that erection up front in order to like let you know where things are going you know?
03:10:40
Speaker
I mean, it's the mentality of people who are like, yeah, after the Trinity tests, they should have wrapped up Oppenheimer. You don't need that last hour. And it's like, it's kind of like the point of the movie is so but that's the reckoning.
03:10:54
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I don't know. I don't know where this ranks in the larger PTA for me. You know, I feel like I need to sit on it more, but I need to rewatch it. I'm still of, the I mean, I, I know there's a subsection of, of, of us freaks. I, I have, uh, inherit vice is my number one. I just like that, that, that stoner noir vibe is like so comforting to me. It's like every performance and, and that is calibrated so well.
03:11:23
Speaker
ah Even in after several watches, i I don't even fully understand all aspects of the mystery. That's like a feature for me because like a lot of my favorite noirs, it's like, no, actually trying to understand it confuses you more.
03:11:37
Speaker
But that's like the, but but yeah, that but that that's like a ah thing I enjoy of of that. And just just living in that era with those characters is is very comforting for me. Mm-hmm.
03:11:50
Speaker
but Like in Aaron Vice is like Chinatown if it was just like the perfect comfort watch for sure. And for me personally, like, ah you know, I always go back and forth between like Punch Drunk Love and the Master. And like the thing with GTA is like he he can occupy so many different realms that all of them have their own thing to offer.
03:12:10
Speaker
And with one battle after another, he's entered an entirely new realm. Right. And it it is all big gain so hard. Yeah, he has never quit in terms of like being a better filmmaker.
03:12:24
Speaker
And if nothing else, you know, like we've talked about the quality of the film itself. We talked about like what it could possibly do in terms of box office and awards. If nothing else, this is a clear marking that one of the greatest American filmmakers is not done innovating, challenging himself and going even further. And if anything else,
03:12:47
Speaker
What comes next is going to be amazing. But what he just made was like the best comfort action movie since Heat, really. and And, you know, like for that alone, like one battle after another is Tre Bien, Magnifique, you know.
03:13:03
Speaker
Yeah. no Two thumbs up. I mean, shame about the Zionism, but otherwise, no, that's. I just had to throw that in there. It's like, I can't. Talking on one battle after another. Come on
03:13:20
Speaker
I think you can acknowledge both through of like, like the good that this movie does and engaging with those things. But then being like his view is still limited. Like whether we're talking about PTA himself or Leo, it's like they have a blind spot because ofs there's, they're not realizing that though these are all connected characters.
03:13:39
Speaker
you know, political access points. so It's like, it's like but the battle over there, the pal the the Palestinians are fighting for survival is, ah it's all connected. It's connected to our fight against fascism here or anywhere else. ah that that It's one big battle after another book.
03:14:00
Speaker
I don't think this movie has the scope to even include, like, all geopolitics. So obviously it doesn't go in that way No, I get that, right? Like, I'm saying just, like, from the perspective of PTA's own Zionism, like, it's speaking more to, like, the inspecificity of the politics of this film itself, right? Because, like, a Zionist understands that their ah political spectrum is...
03:14:24
Speaker
counterproductive in many ways. It's oxymoronic in many ways, right? And in order to, you know, come to terms with that, they would have to, like, really peg down that ideology and label it, right?
03:14:36
Speaker
And ah that's something that's just not going to happen. And, you know, with with the... It's what makes the whole emotional plot line work in terms of just like that's where all the focus is.
03:14:50
Speaker
But then that's also underlying how this film can't be any kind of like actual like this is the theory. You know, you cannot show this to people to radicalize them. That's where it falls short in that sense.
03:15:02
Speaker
But by making it entirely about the emotional experience, that's where it's able to transcend, you know, just logical thought. shows that that revolution is about the emotional protecting what's around you element because yeah even like you said it can't be the text like but it's you did you can start with the inkling with the feeling uh you know not that to be cheesy and quote a star wars thing revolutions are built on hope you know and this can kind of give hope that
03:15:35
Speaker
You know, it's it's easy to give in despair and in-dumerism with how bad things are, but it's like we can get through this and it's worth getting through because there is something to fight for.
03:15:48
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Conclusion and Film's Lasting Impact
03:15:50
Speaker
a ah great Tom Petty a needle drop. You know, that's what it was all about. The music, area we didn't even talk about the music. Oh, yeah. The needle drops were ah excellent. i mean, he's never, that's always been a strength and in his films, but he's fucking killed it in this one. And then Johnny Greenwood, I mean, shame about...
03:16:11
Speaker
I'll just talk about Johnny Grunel. Yeah. Shame, shame about that. But he fucking freaked it ah with the score. It's constantly like rising. Like it feels like I forget what the term is and music theory, but it constantly sounds like it's and like it's it's like raising in pitch and it's building and building and building.
03:16:32
Speaker
The score has that quality to it where it's like it it almost feels like there's never like a relief. So like even if you're watching a scene that's not supposed to have a lot of tension in it, it always feels like something's about to blow up.
03:16:44
Speaker
ah it's It's a really ah incredible score. Not one I think I can listen to in my own time, but in the context of the film, it's it it really is propulsive. I have listened to it a little bit on my own, but yeah, it's not so without the context. it it It doesn't quite land to see, but There's also moments where it sounds like they're like and dipping into like Wizard of Oz like music. like like oh yeah.
03:17:09
Speaker
do it I mean, there are there's I would say inherent vice probably leans more into like the dreamy ah like vibe. But there is definitely you some sorality at play here, even if we're like confronting real political realities that we're still kind of playing with what is reality in terms of like the physical logic of stuff there's just the stuff that even something as small as like this was in the trailer of like you know when they do say viva re a love revolution to each other and then benicio goes down the hatch the carpet just like rolls over the like trap door of like just just like little little little flourishes like that where it's like
03:17:54
Speaker
Or just like we talked about the absurdity of the Christmas adventure. Like, how, who built that underground fucking, like, the superstructure? And what's in the of the other doors? Like, you just see him go at one door when they have the meeting.
03:18:09
Speaker
What are those other doors? Like, there's, like, stuff like that where it's like, yeah, I don't actually need that ah explained. And it's just a fun... it it just it's just yeah It's just a fun, creative flourish that that kind of like informs the the vibe of this world.
03:18:26
Speaker
It's just going for broke at every moment. And the passion is just there for it to exist. On all levels. It feels like everyone... Because it's like it it's it seems like it's the same crew that PTA has always made these movies on. And they've made like tiny movies the whole way through, right? So it's like them really swinging for the fences. The fact that it works as well as it does...
03:18:46
Speaker
It's kind of a miracle, but at the same time, it speaks to the PTA strengths as a director. ah Also, I'm sorry to say, Doug, but i'm I'm like fading really quickly. is it OK if we wrap up soon? Oh, I was I was planning to. Sorry. It's just I. Yeah, I was getting.
03:19:03
Speaker
a excited excited about stuff of that I didn't even think to to to me to mention, but yeah i i yeah. I'm in the same boat. like I've got more I want to comment on as well, but I'm like, you it's it's close to one o'clock in my time, and I'm like... No, i and i it's it's late. I think we've covered more in enough ground. like I think this conversation was great, and like I said, I am planning to do some kind of super-sized...
03:19:30
Speaker
thing whether that's me combining like multiple conversations or just doing like I did kind of do like a panel-esque thing earlier in the the year when i I had I kind of like overbooked when I did 28 years later and and so I just had like like six people I think including me were on so like I might hell yeah do something like that for like up the other people that I would want to hear from on on one battle. So if you are free, whenever that day is, it's like, even though we just talked for three and a half hours, like you come on for that too.
03:20:03
Speaker
Oh, do you know, I will never say no. If you if you want me there, I'll be there. i I really enjoy these conversations. So like whatever you got cooking up, I've got it. You know, i' I'm not trying to like end things prematurely or anything either. You know, like if those plans don't fall through or don't follow through, you know what i mean?
03:20:23
Speaker
ah Like, I'm good to, like, wrap up like a ah more cohesive thing at the end if you if need be. Right. Or, you know, whatever. Right. Like, I'm just saying. i we Yeah, we we could we could we could just end it. I mean, like, ah other than ah do you have any plugs? Oh, no.
03:20:41
Speaker
You know where to find me. Yeah. Listen to the other episodes. You get that information there. And you know, don't know, it'll be in the description. you If you don't know, then there's just no hope. If you don't know, now you know.
03:20:56
Speaker
ah Yeah. So I think i think we can call it there.