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Danielle & Scott - Part 2 - Emotional Survival
96 Plays2 years ago
Awesome chat with a good friend, Danielle. Check out her vintage jewelry store, RHOME Vintage! We talk about Scandoval, what drives us to seek companionship, and some recent dating stories. (had a technical issue, so this one is split into 2 parts, this is part 2)
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Housekeeping
00:00:00
Speaker
So OK, welcome back to wish you all the best. Had some technical I don't know what happened. Difficulty with the last episodes of that one ended abruptly. Apologies for that. I'm still here with Danielle and I'll try to publish these episodes so that they are back to back so that right when one ends, the other one will pick it up. I'm not sure this is the low production value podcasting. So it's going to be messy. Here we go.
The Story Behind RoamVintage
00:00:30
Speaker
Okay, so at the top of this episode, Danielle, I forgot to ask you, so RoamVintage.com, R-H-O-M-E, Vintage.com. What does Roam mean or stand for? What is that? R-H-O-M-E. So it's an acronym and it stands for, the R stands for roof, and that is the name of my paternal grandmother.
00:00:58
Speaker
H is for Helen, which is the name of my maternal great-grandmother. And then the O is like the circle. It's a circle. So the circle of life of vintage. And then M is for Marjorie, my maternal grandmother. And E is the environment because it's environmentally friendly and sustainable. So basically my love for vintage and love for jewelry and fashion and everything came from the women in my family. So that's why.
00:01:27
Speaker
I love that. I super love that. Thanks. OK, so when we got cut off by technical shenanigans, we were super getting into it. And I really love this conversation. And thank you for taking the time to talk about it. Thank you for your vulnerability. Of course, yes. It takes courage. And thank you so much. OK, I want to get back into that. OK.
Fashion Style, Identity, and Relationships
00:01:56
Speaker
So your fashion sense, your jewelry, small business, and your fashion sense. And I don't think you would argue. I think you have a very distinctive fashion style. You know what you're doing with your outfit. When you're showing up to something, I feel like that's part of the Danielle package, is you are bringing fashion to what you're doing. And so when we were chatting before, I was surprised to hear. And this kind of gets into sort of being a chameleon in a relationship, which I can definitely relate to.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I think at the end of the last episode, we were talking a little bit about sort of like being able to compromise to be in a relationship. But I would say maybe being a chameleon in a relationship can be too much compromise. But for your fashion, I was surprised to hear you say that you would like alter your sense of fashion and maybe your sense of self to be in a relationship. I was wondering if you wanted to talk more about that. Sure. So I
00:02:53
Speaker
have all, yes, I've always loved fashion and I actually love a lot of different styles. Like I sometimes will dress super feminine, girly kind of florals, pinks, things like that. And then other times I kind of want to be kind of edgy. And then other times I just want to be preppy. So I kind of do that anyway. But I think
00:03:19
Speaker
from the outside people will see, oh, she has a style. But for me internally, I know when I'm when I'm leaning more towards the preppy versus the edgy and I say I was about to say like kind of grungy like I know when I'm doing that. And so it's because I do like a lot of different styles. It was easy and kind of fun and exciting for me to do that in relationships before. And
00:03:49
Speaker
However, I think maybe I convinced myself that it was fun and exciting, but it was more just like trying on a new life. How does this, you know, kind of like as a metaphor, trying on a new look, different clothing, but I was really kind of trying on a new life. And what would it be like if I left my own life and joined this other person's life?
00:04:15
Speaker
So yeah, and there's a talent for that. Like, to a certain extent, I'm sure that felt in a way maybe felt positive because you're like, Oh, I can do this. I can make grunge or I can make surfer chic look good or I don't know. That's a thing. But yeah, I mean, like, yes, definitely. Yeah, it was a feather in my cap. I think it made me feel good that I could blend in and I could sort of adapt. But what
00:04:43
Speaker
that little bit that felt really good versus the detriment it had on my self-esteem and who and my identity and who I was in loving myself and being solid in myself. That's like way bigger of a thing than the, you know, feather in my cap that felt good about adapting. I think I did it to, you know, it wasn't about me. I mean, it was, it was definitely about me.
00:05:12
Speaker
It was 100% about me, but it was about being accepted and it was about survival. Like everything had to do with that. Everything had to do about being accepted and desired and wanted and valued and community getting into a, I didn't feel like I could create my own community. I didn't feel, I had very low self-confidence. So that was a skill set. Yes, it's a skill set that I still have today, but I,
00:05:40
Speaker
do it more intentionally as opposed to it felt like a means to an end for survival in the past. Emotional survival. I like how you specified what type of survival we're talking about because there is obviously basic needs in survival and that's not what I'm referring to. For sure. Survival can mean a lot of things. Yes. I totally hear what you're talking about here.
Emotional Survival and Self-Reliance Journey
00:06:10
Speaker
And so when we're talking about this, I would say maybe this era of your life where you were maybe I would say over prioritizing finding companionship to satisfy that need for emotional survival. Can I ask you to talk a little bit or does it make sense to ask about like, what was the journey like
00:06:36
Speaker
What was the journey like to get to where you are now? Because it sounds like now you're coming at it from a very, I would argue, healthy perspective where you're not getting into things to just satisfy that need for emotional survival. It seems like you've got your emotional survival on your own solo. I know you're dating, and if we want, we can get into that as well. But it doesn't seem like you are in a committed thing, in a relationship. Correct.
00:07:02
Speaker
for that need. And so can I ask like, what was the transition like? How did you realize or how did you take the steps to get from that place where that emotional survival need was maybe overwhelming if it started to describe it that way? Sure. So obviously, like it did not happen overnight. But what did happen pretty quickly was a sequence of events that
00:07:33
Speaker
really had me take a step back and think like, Whoa, it was just kind of like an aha moment over over the course of maybe three months of and then meeting and knowing that I needed to make a change and knowing that that would take a lot of work and time and that it would be scary and hard. But
00:08:03
Speaker
there were three or four major events that happened in my life that catapulted me into this introspection slash makeover, basically, emotional makeover, interpersonal makeover. And I had to mourn the loss
00:08:32
Speaker
of relationships in my life because of that, because it wasn't just romantic relationships that I had chosen for the wrong reasons. I had done that with friendships as well. And I think I'm at a place now, like when I was in it and sort of figuring that out, it was, I had the adrenaline going and so I was like,
00:09:03
Speaker
you know, my stamina was high and I was just kind of like making moves and knowing I needed and seeing like a tunnel, like I had the light at the end. I was seeing, I knew what my goal was and so I was very motivated. Now I'm sort of, I think I'm in this place, it's like I'm mourning a little bit, mourning the loss of that person and who that, who I was. And so there's, I have this little bit of
00:09:32
Speaker
residual sort of longing and missing of that person. And, um, even though it was, it was a version of you that was getting into things that were ultimately less healthy. Yeah. And I get that. And yes. And there's so obviously, there's so many parts of me that are still there, but these behavior behaviors and the pain, just like the coping mechanisms I had developed for the pain that I was feeling inside and those things had to shift.
00:10:03
Speaker
And some of those coping mechanisms, you know, weren't terrible, but they had to do a lot of things. I had to change a lot. And so, um, and my mindset. And so I think it's, I can almost think of that previous self as
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like a loss, a little bit like a loss, but it was good. It was a good change. I'm very happy with where I'm at now and the work that I've done. I feel very proud of that. And I have to remind myself of that because I can get in my head and miss that part of myself and see, wow, did I do the right, those changes, that shift, was that the right thing?
00:10:50
Speaker
Am I doing the right thing now? This pattern that I had before, am I still repeating this pattern? Yes, you have to watch yourself in these patterns that we can repeat. But going through it, your question was like, what did that feel like? What was that like? And it was invigorating. I felt like I was running a race. But now I'm kind of, not that I'm at the finish line, I'm just sort of, now I have to embark on a new race. It's like a new
00:11:21
Speaker
a new mountain. And so I'm kind of saying goodbye to that mountain and saying like, and now I'm like trying to find my partner, trying to build my, you know, I have a community, but you know, trying to solidify that community now. So if I'm hearing you right, like there was, there was something that happened that kind of, um, catalyzed that shift. But once that, once that happened, you sort of felt like, okay,
00:11:51
Speaker
It's time to make this change. You felt sort of empowered. You felt kind of invigorated to shift away from, I don't want to say habit, but shift away from that tendency or that pull to find, again, emotional survival in a relationship.
The Transformative Power of Dating Experiences
00:12:09
Speaker
And you shifted into kind of the phase that you're traveling now. I think that, yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
go ahead. It takes a lot of courage. And I think, I think a lot of folks, I don't know, I think I've had a few things in life where it's like, I mean, I think everybody does, right? Like something happens and it's like, Oh, there's this cataclysm, my circumstances have changed. Sometimes it's really big and dramatic. Sometimes it's a little smaller and more gradual, but like something happens externally. And it's like, it makes it clear that like, okay, I've got to change something. But I think, I don't know, I think that capacity to
00:12:47
Speaker
Well, I mean, let me put it this way. When I'm dating somebody, when I'm meeting somebody, I find that I, and at first I don't think I was even doing it consciously, but I find that I like listen for whether or not that person has ever been through something like a big change, whether or not they've been through some big event that like caused them to have to reassess and have to shift gears because life throws you curve balls, you know? It's gonna happen sooner or later.
00:13:16
Speaker
And I find myself much more able to trust and connect with somebody who I know has been through a little bit of shit, basically. Which is to say that I admire that. I think it's a good thing to...
00:13:33
Speaker
to have the courage to make that change. Because a lot of folks, I don't know, not to look down on anybody, but sometimes you're just not in the right situation, or you don't have the support, or you don't have something, and you just stay in that old pattern. I think a lot of folks stay in the same pattern for their whole lives. Anyway, I think it's great.
00:13:55
Speaker
And to zoom out a little bit, I think it's exciting that I think more and more people are doing that. I think more and more men and women are finding opportunities to work on themselves, to make themselves better, better partners, better people, better members of community, which I think to be an optimist means that now more than ever, you have a better chance of finding somebody who has done that work and who is able to do that work and is willing to do that work.
00:14:24
Speaker
And that, I think, is a really core building block of an awesome, healthy, long-lasting partnership, as unnatural as monogamy might be, if that's something you're shooting for. That's a whole rabbit hole. Anyway, I just wanted to kind of comment on that, and thank you for sharing. I think that's super cool. Okay, was there anything else about the sort of the deep, heavy lizard brain
00:14:54
Speaker
survival stuff that I missed or that I should have asked that I didn't. Let me see. Well, I'm just looking at our notes here. Because I also want to hear about the lighter stuff. I want to hear about your Bumble Date and the stories, the other cool stories you have. Yeah, we can jump into that. Okay, yeah.
00:15:18
Speaker
So there's three great things you have here. There's the Bumble Date, which is I think tonight, you said? Yes. Exciting. There's a gentleman who we're going to call Joe because we're not going to use real names. And there's the time you dated the guy on The Bachelor. So which one of those do you want to talk about? Okay. Well,
00:15:41
Speaker
I could talk about all of them. I can be concise, but yeah. Which one should you start with? Let's just start from the side. Tell me about your bumble date tonight. Why is that exciting? Are we excited for it? Tell me everything. Well, yes. I just thought it was interesting when I was thinking about our conversation in advance of our recording, and I thought it was interesting like, oh my gosh, I actually have a bumble date tonight, so I'm literally living
00:16:10
Speaker
living what we're talking about in terms of, I know we haven't delved really deep into the online dating or the apps necessarily, but right now that's kind of the only way I'm really meeting prospects. And I work at the RealReal and I work in luxury resale as
00:16:32
Speaker
alongside my vintage jewelry company that I have. And so, and I'm technically in a sales role. And I think of this online dating, bumbling, hinge, whatever apps as very much like the sales funnel. So you got to fill the funnel and you'll see which leads you can convert. And then hopefully it'll just close one deal. Yeah.
00:17:01
Speaker
And so I, yeah, I have a bumble date tonight. It's date number two. And I met him, actually I was in Arizona visiting my parents and his parents also were in Arizona and he was visiting them. And so we matched on bumble there. And I actually didn't know this, but you can,
00:17:28
Speaker
on Bumble, I guess you can, and I don't know if I could do it, but he was able to do it. He could write me something in advance.
00:17:38
Speaker
So when I was swiping, it popped up and said like, Hey, what brought you to Arizona from San Francisco? And so it popped up and usually you just see a profile, but like this message popped up before we even matched.
Perspectives on First Dates
00:17:51
Speaker
So I thought that was interesting. And then I, and then I thought he was cute and he was from San Francisco and he looked like, you know, he was interested in what I was interested in. It looked, said I'm looking for a relationship. So we had a first date and honestly first dates are fricking awkward.
00:18:10
Speaker
I wouldn't say it was like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing. But I don't necessarily think, I think that's very much Hollywood and
00:18:22
Speaker
what we think it should be or whatever, but it was very nice and I enjoyed getting to know him. I found myself smiling a lot as he was talking and so I was like, okay. And that was natural, like I wasn't forcing the smile. So yeah, but then he's... Yeah, he's been out of town, so I haven't seen him for about three weeks. So we shall see.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yes. I love it. I love it. Can I ask questions? Can I pry a little bit? Yes, please. Sure.
00:18:53
Speaker
So while we were talking in the previous episode, 15 minutes ago, about like, while you're swiping and what you're looking for, when you're kind of talking about sort of what you find attractive, when you were looking at this guy, when you saw his profile, did he kind of check those boxes? Did he have those things that you know that you're looking for?
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah, the face. Yeah, the face. That was like, number one, I couldn't see I don't think I could see his hands. And I don't really, I don't really look at hands in photos. But I do I am like, eventually attract them like, Oh, you have nice, like, masking hands. I don't know. I like that. Sure. Yeah. So yes, the face definitely. And then I think he, he's definitely like more
00:19:47
Speaker
No one can see what he's talking about. He's more like chiseled and sort of ripped, I guess, than I was saying I prefer, than I prefer. So, which is kind of funny. I'm like, actually, can you eat more cheese? And go to the gym less and lift lighter weight. No, but yes, he definitely checked the attraction box in terms of photographs.
00:20:18
Speaker
also obviously that's, and it's not like attraction weighs more than these other things. It's just one of the things. So yeah, other very, very important thing is family. And so I, you know, we talked about family and how important it is to him. And, um, I could tell from his, his, his profile as well as the fact that he was visiting his family. I was visiting my family. So similarities in that way. Um, yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
I like that. I love that. It's so hard, right? I feel like a lot of people, and I've been doing this for way too long and I've got a freaking podcast about it, but when I'm on the apps and I'm swiping, I do think a lot of the times it just comes down to a gut feel thing. I don't have a bunch of check boxes that I need to check on a profile. I just kind of look at somebody. The thing I do is I think, okay, if I've had a glass of champagne and I'm at a close friend's wedding,
00:21:14
Speaker
And this person in this in this Bumble profile starts flirting with me. Do I flirt back? Right. And if I if I think I can get to a yes, I'm like, yeah, if this person was flirting with me, I would flirt black. Then I start looking and figure out what am I going to write and send that first little message, whatever that kind of thing. I'm surprised to hear you've never received like an opening message before in Bumble because that's a thing you can do. It's like supposed to make you like stand out, you know. You haven't ever done one of those before.
00:21:42
Speaker
I don't think so. I don't know if I use Bumble that much. I can't use Hinge more. I don't think I use Bumble as much. So maybe that's why. Maybe that's totally fair. Or maybe people don't think I'm that guy that didn't like me. I respectfully disagree. We haven't seen my profile. I've absolutely seen your profile, Danielle. I've absolutely seen your profile. Oh, okay. On Bumble?
00:22:10
Speaker
Of course I have. In San Francisco, there's like 500 women and 10,000 men. I've seen every woman's profile in San Francisco. We can dig into the nitty gritty of dating apps, maybe on the next episode, if you're game for that. That could be interesting. Absolutely. But this sounds really exciting. I love this for you. It sounds like, I don't know, you've got a twinkle in your eye when you're talking about this guy, so I'd love that for you. You deserve a wonderful second date.
00:22:39
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. And yeah, I love that it was like it felt like he was visiting his family and family is important to you and you were visiting your family. And in a way, I think, you know, sometimes it just feels nice when it feels like the universe is kind of winking at you a little bit like you're both in Arizona at the same time doing the same thing. It's like I feel like sometimes it's nice to feel a little bit of serendipity or or.
00:23:09
Speaker
coincidence, you know, it somehow makes it feel a little sparkly and it helps it stand out from, you know what I mean? Because it's hard. It's hard to choose. That's the hard part of the apps, right? It feels like we have so, so, so, so, so many options. And it's just like, how do I choose? And when you have so many options, you have none. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, well, yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
That's a whole conversation. The whole dating app thing, how many options you have, that whole thing, San Francisco versus LA. That's a whole other episode. Let's put a big old pin in that, because I would love to talk to you about that. I will absolutely talk to you about that. That'd be great. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, so really quickly, two more things to wrap up, because I do want to hear about both of these. Yes. Okay, so let's talk about quote unquote Joe, not his real name.
Handling Red Flags and Ghosting in Relationships
00:23:58
Speaker
I'm guessing this is going to get back to some things we were talking about previously, but tell me about Joe.
00:24:03
Speaker
Okay. So Joe, uh, I saw some red flags. I know I mentioned this in my notes. I saw some red flags, but, and I'm using this years ago. No, this is a couple of months ago.
00:24:21
Speaker
And I use red flags just because that's, I think people understand what that means. I don't necessarily believe in red flags or whatever. I just, there were certain behaviors that I was like, hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that. But I was, you know, being very open minded and trying, you know, nobody's perfect. And I'm sure there's things he's thinking about me that he's wondering about.
00:24:50
Speaker
But I can, some of those things I think, well, I think they impacted how it ended up happening. Oh, Misty Lou's crying. She probably has to go to the bathroom, but it's okay. It's okay. So I, we went on,
00:25:09
Speaker
probably about like eight dates. So we started to see each other regularly. Well, no, probably more than eight because we were doing a lot of face times, which was nice. He lives about an hour away from where I live. So
00:25:21
Speaker
We were FaceTiming a lot, and he's a psychiatrist. And so I thought that was really intriguing. I know there's a difference. He's not a marriage and family therapist, but he still is obviously interested in psychology. And I thought that I'd never dated anyone who was in the psychology field. And he made me laugh, and I was physically attracted to him.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, there were, you know, a lot of things going for him and the first time that we were physical, he kind of, I felt like he kind of pressured me. I wasn't really, and he was just sort of, and so I'm totally capable of saying like, I'm not feeling comfortable about this or whatever, but I felt pressured and I couldn't,
00:26:22
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if I did what I, anyway. So that was one thing. Didn't feel great. Not great vibes. Didn't feel great. Like it didn't feel like he was interested in what made me feel good. Like we couldn't have a conversation. And then that sort of came up again where I wasn't feeling like connected. And so I didn't really want to be physical. And then he kind of pouted. He was like, he was upset that I didn't want it. And so then I wanted to have a conversation about that. And so,
00:26:52
Speaker
Anyway, there were some other things, but ultimately we kind of ghosted each other after he had invited me to Europe with him for this month. Like he invited me to come to Europe with him and then within two weeks we like stopped talking.
00:27:14
Speaker
I would say I'm very much about like it takes two to tango. In my past, I would probably point fingers a little bit more, but I literally am like, I want to be very, very cognizant of my part. And so I learned some things.
00:27:33
Speaker
But what was interesting to me was that he canceled on me twice and how it ended. He canceled on me two times in a row. The first time he, there was an extenuating circumstance. I understood why it was unfortunate. And I was driving on the way to see him and he canceled. And so that was a little bit like, Oh, that kind of sucks. Yeah. And then the second time, which was literally the next time we were supposed to see each other,
00:28:01
Speaker
he got injured. And so it was the same thing, but I did offer to go up there again. I mean, and then he just went to FaceTime. I knew something was going on with him. He was pushing me away. He was definitely pushing me away, which was interesting because he had asked me in a FaceTime conversation, maybe a couple of weeks before, you know, or maybe it was actually, it was in person. He had asked me when you're in a partnership, when you're dating someone, you're with someone and something happens in your life,
00:28:28
Speaker
Do you pull away or do you come closer and kind of want camaraderie and partnership in those moments? And I say I come closer. Like I definitely want to come closer. I don't isolate like I don't and I think he
00:28:45
Speaker
And I asked him if he did the same. And I swear to you, he said no. He's like, no, I like to come closer. And he did exactly what he said he wouldn't do. He pulled away and pushed me away. It was so interesting. I'm like, you literally just said that. You didn't do this. And you were happy that I didn't do it. And then you actually just did it. And then you did it to me. It kind of blew my mind, especially because he's a psychiatrist. I thought, wow, I feel like he would be a little bit more in tune.
00:29:14
Speaker
So the last thing we said to each other was he texted me a photo of me he had taken that was of me next to a butterfly wings. Like one of those things, Instagram moment where you take a photo and there's butterfly wings behind. So he texted me, we hadn't spoken for like two days and he texted me and said, um, you make a perfect butterfly. And I was like, Oh, that's sweet. And so I said, Oh, thank you.
00:29:38
Speaker
nothing ever again. I never reached out to him. He never reached out to me. In my mind, it felt like, okay, balls in your court, you'd canceled on me twice. I offered to come up there. You said, no, I'm not going to push anymore. I also, it was funny because I was listening to one of your episodes about masculinity and what people are, you know,
00:29:58
Speaker
expecting and I do want to be pursued but you guys were talking in another episode about how men sometimes want to be pursued too and I thought and I've actually struggled with that too because I think I do want to show interest but I don't always know how that'll be received and I also don't want to be the only one pursuing but I am totally once I'm in it with someone totally happy to have that conversation and I would feel really good about mutually pursuing and
00:30:22
Speaker
but in this situation, I was like, I feel like I've pursued enough and it's earlier in the beginning and I would prefer, I would like a little bit more. So yeah, I do say like we both ghosted each other because I'm trying to be more understanding and like, okay, I also didn't reach out more. So I didn't reach out at the end or I could call, so,
00:30:50
Speaker
Anyway, but I really do kind of think he ghosted me, but I'm trying to say we mutually did it because I, but the little girl in me, like the child in me, it's like, no, he ghosted you and that was bullshit. Yeah. I mean, you know, you always want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. And I know you're a very kind and gracious person, but like, yeah, it sounds like it doesn't sound like this person was really able to kind of bring his best self to your connection.
00:31:18
Speaker
True. But here's, this is something I did the other night. Oh my gosh. I'm kind of embarrassed, but not really. And I'm just going to say it because I have a challenge with myself.
00:31:31
Speaker
I second-guess myself a lot, and I'm working on that, and I also judge myself a lot. And I think, in turn, that makes me judge others when the core of me doesn't judge. I know the core of me is good and has goodness, and I don't want to judge. And so I know I don't want to judge, but I think if I judge myself, that's going to bleed into others. And I have this very strong aversion. I don't want to pass judgment. I want to exactly give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
00:32:01
Speaker
Anyway, I'm trying really hard to just love myself and say, this is who I am and we all make mistakes. And so when you had said earlier how you were like, if you want me to take anything out, I will. I don't want you to take anything out because it's part of this exercise of me being just really honest and challenging myself. So nope, not passing judgment on myself, not passing judgment on others.
00:32:27
Speaker
nights ago, I was reflecting on ghosting and how that can impact your confidence in dating.
00:32:36
Speaker
And everything from having one date and the other person just not saying anything. There's never a conversation like, Hey, you know, I enjoyed meeting you, but I don't think we're fit. That I think can be ghosting to more of an extreme of like, we actually went on multiple dates and we were, I was invited to Europe and then there was ghosting. So I was thinking about that. And then I just got angry. I was like,
00:33:03
Speaker
That person that that behavior is Impacting me and I'm sad about it and I'm mad. So I said yeah, that's real And the reason I did that was One second. Let's see if I can find it The reason I did that Was because I know I have a tendency to really get down on myself
00:33:34
Speaker
And if I allowed him to respond to me, I would just feel so ashamed and shameful and sad. And I knew I just, I felt like I had to stand up for myself. I felt like I had to stand up for myself. After he sent me the butterfly texts and then nothing else.
00:33:53
Speaker
Right. And after I felt pressured to be physical, when I told him I'm not comfortable being physical because I have abandonment issues, I was very vulnerable and open and I said, I don't. And then he did that. It just felt like, gosh, you really disrespected me knowing that this was the trigger for me and knowing that it's something I'm moving on.
00:34:12
Speaker
I'm aware I can make my own choices. I'm not blaming him. That was my choice. I understand that. But when you receive information from someone that you're dating, I would hope you would listen and act accordingly. And I felt like that was irresponsible. So what I said. I got to tell you. Oh, sorry. Go on. No, go ahead. I've been talking a lot. Go ahead.
00:34:31
Speaker
I was gonna say for me, as your friend, me hearing that, any kind of pressure on physical intimacy, and this might just be me, is a huge red flag for me. I get very protective of my lady friends when I hear stories about guys. Because I don't know this guy, but I would venture to guess that he weighs more than you, that he's a bigger person than you. And I think that dynamic is,
00:34:59
Speaker
almost always there between men and women. And I think, I don't want to beat up men too much, but I think in general, well, you know, I do think men, I think men, we overload physical intimacy. I think like it's maybe a little tougher for us and it's tough for everybody now, but I think it's tougher for men now to sort of feel community and to feel intimacy with like friends, with like guy friends or friend friends.
00:35:25
Speaker
And so we tend to overload romantic intimacy. And I think we tend to seek romantic intimacy through making out, through physical intimacy, because that's like the way that a lot of men feel like it's okay to ask for intimacy. Interesting.
00:35:43
Speaker
all that, but which is not at all to excuse. I want to acknowledge that I think that it's a drive that a lot of men feel. I want to acknowledge that. At the same time, it's absolutely not okay because that drive is so strong to pressure somebody else into expressing intimacy when they're not willing, when they're not really expressing that intimacy, when they're just yielding. You know what I mean?
00:36:12
Speaker
And there's a whole. Go ahead. What? I was going to say there's a whole whole thing about like feeling pursued and like consent and and get into there's a rabbit hole about like being feeling dominant, feeling submissive, totally consensual, awesome stuff, a whole other rabbit hole going that way. But like, especially when it's early days and it's something where
00:36:36
Speaker
you want physical connection and another person isn't meeting you there, you're not getting that enthusiastic yes. For me, that's a really big flag. I have a very low tolerance for dudes who are still pushing when it's not that enthusiastic yes. Well, and I can understand how that can be detrimental to someone's ego. I've been in relationships where I have felt unwanted physically.
00:37:02
Speaker
I think it's different though when you are communicating the reason. I felt very confident in my communication. I've worked really hard on communicating. I still have a lot to work on, but I was pretty clear in
00:37:17
Speaker
why I was feeling that way and hesitating. And it had nothing to do with my attractiveness to this person. It had everything to do with my own experience and my own life and my comfort level. And so I felt like I made that very clear. And so I think
00:37:34
Speaker
that was what was the problem. Um, and then sort of feeling shamed like it one, I think one time he said to me like, are we going to do this every time? Like it was like, is this going to happen every time? Yeah. I mean, I don't love that Danielle. Yes, it was not cool, but you know, again, I was, and then I, you know,
00:37:56
Speaker
I had a conversation with him. What does that mean? Let's talk about it. So I was trying to really understand and not write someone off. So however, when he ghosted me or we ghosted each other, we ghosted each other. We both did not pursue it anymore. The reason I didn't was because of these other things. And so it was kind of like, okay, and this, this is, I think,
00:38:26
Speaker
another example of how we aren't aligning in terms of what we're looking for in a relationship. I'm debating whether or not to read you the text I said. I am deeply, deeply curious if you don't want to. I am not going to pressure you, of course. I'm going to say it and I'm going to caveat it. This is an exercise and a challenge for myself to just
00:38:51
Speaker
show myself those little parts of you that no one else sees. I'm going to show it because I'm sure there are other people who have been there, so I'm doing this in service of humanity. Okay. In service of humanity. I appreciate that. This is what I said. I said, please don't treat other women the way you treated me. You are a psychiatrist and should know better than to ghost women. It is hurtful and disrespectful, especially after sleeping with them. Be well.
00:39:19
Speaker
You could have said wish you all the best. No, I'm kidding. I think that's good. No. Wait, one more thing I said, I sent a link. I sent a Psychology Today article that talks about the emotional, how emotionally damaging ghosting is. I sent an article. You linked him to the article. Listen,
00:39:46
Speaker
I think as your friend, I'm proud that you stood up for yourself and I hope that felt good because he feels terrible. It just feels like- It just felt like, gosh, no one's ever going to say to him, hey, that was wrong. I do think that was wrong. We don't know his inner life and his circumstances and who knows what is there.
00:40:13
Speaker
But I think it is fair to send him the signal, hey, heads up, you hurt somebody. He's a big boy. He can handle it. Yes. And I honestly, I would like to have that. I would like someone to communicate that to me. Sure. Maybe not necessarily that way. I don't necessarily feel like that was the perfect way to
Self-Reflection from Harsh Feedback
00:40:35
Speaker
do it. But if I had hurt someone,
00:40:40
Speaker
and they reached out to me and expressed that, I would appreciate it because it would make me think, hey, I don't really want to do that again, or make me just at least reflect on myself and how my actions impact others. I think that's so important because
00:40:59
Speaker
we don't communicate that to each other. And part of the reason we don't do that is because it's not a lot of times not well received. So the fact that someone would have the courage to share that with me, um, I had someone do that recently where they felt like I bailed on them, but his, his comment was more, it was laced with, it was laced and this is from a dating app and it was laced with
00:41:31
Speaker
shame. It was more like you're bad. Um, which I kind of did to him. No, it was a little, I had never met this person. I had never met this person. This person I met in the dating in the hinge chat or whatever. Yes. Yes. So it was basically like never contact me again. You're awful. So I felt like that was a little different, but he did communicate something to me, which was, Hey,
00:41:59
Speaker
I would like you to be more responsive. He said, you know, you shouldn't be on dating apps. And I'm like, huh, okay, I'm actually going to think about that. So I was open to receiving the feedback. It did hit me and I wasn't like, well, this person's crazy. It was more like, huh, let me think about that. And actually, at that time that person might've been correct. I was a little bit distant and I wasn't, you know, so anyway.
00:42:27
Speaker
Well, OK, there's so putting a dollar in the jar. There's so much to unpack there. And if you would if you would like to come back, Danielle, for I guess it would be episode three, I would love to chat with you more about this, because I really I would be interested to get into the rabbit hole of like dating apps and how they work, because I think a piece of the first thing that pops out to me here with these with these interactions, especially with this this brief story that you're telling me about the guy who was a little a little
00:42:54
Speaker
I would argue maybe a little harsh inside hinge. But the question of how do you give each person their due attention in an app that is engineered to put a thousand people in front of you? That's a real challenge. And I think how we navigate that, I think it's different for men and for women. If you'd be willing, I'd be very interested to get into the nitty gritty about it. I think a lot of people would be curious to know what it's like for a woman like you on a dating app. I would venture to say that it's the
00:43:22
Speaker
It's a little different for you and for me, but we can talk about that. And also, I want to hear the story about the time you dated the guy on The Bachelor. But can we put a pin in that? Can we save that for the next time we do this? Absolutely. Absolutely. And Scott, thank you so much for just creating this safe space. I mean, I'm probably after this going to think to myself, gosh, I shouldn't have shared what I send in that text. But you know what? I feel really safe. And if I was going to share it with anyone on any platform, I would share it with you.
00:43:52
Speaker
Thank you. Well, me and my, I think it's like 50 followers or whatever there are a safe space. And I, I'm, there's a, there's a contingent of people in Seattle of all places who like this show, who like follow this show. I'm not sure. I don't know anybody in Seattle, but I, I trust there are also people and find my 20 followers. Yes. I don't think I'm ready for that. A meet and greet, a meet and greet. Well, I'm ready. Right. Well, shout out to the lovely people of Seattle.
00:44:21
Speaker
Anyway, I thank you for the courage. Thank you for having this conversation. I think, um, I do think, I think men in general have a hard time having these conversations and from, from hearing you talk about it, I think sometimes maybe, I mean, of course I don't have that experience, but maybe women do too. Sometimes maybe we can all be a little better about supporting each other through this weirdness that is modern dating. Um, absolutely. Okay. Thank you so, so much for taking the time. Apologies for the technical hiccup there.
00:44:50
Speaker
No problem. And yeah, I would love to have you back on again for more. So stay tuned for that. Let's do it. Okay. Thanks, Scott. Thank you, Danielle. And everybody who's listening, thank you for listening. Hopefully we'll bring you some more soon. Have a lovely day. Bye.