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Danielle & Scott - Part 1 - Emotional Survival
103 Plays2 years ago
Awesome chat with a good friend, Danielle. Check out her vintage jewelry store, RHOME Vintage! We talk about Scandoval, what drives us to seek companionship, and some recent dating stories. (had a technical issue, so this one is split into 2 parts, this is part 1)
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, okay, awesome. Here we go. We're recording. Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to wish you all the best, a personal podcast about modern dating. I am as always your host, Scott, and I'm super excited to have my friend Danielle joining me for this episode.
00:00:19
Speaker
Danielle and I and Misty Liu, her very adorable five-pound teacup poodle. Danielle and I, we met a few years ago at a friend hangout, and mostly Misty Liu thought that I was pretty cool, and so we've been friends ever since. That's the story, right?
00:00:41
Speaker
Amazing.
Danielle's Business and Charisma
00:00:43
Speaker
Okay, at the very top, what I've just got to do first is anybody who's listening to this, Danielle is a small business owner. She's got a line of, correct me where I'm wrong here, but like vintage jewelry, you like find vintage jewelry and you resell it.
00:00:57
Speaker
It's called RomeVintage.com. That's R-H-O-M-E, Vintage.com. I've used it. I've bought a bracelet for somebody that I was dating. If you know somebody whose love language is gifts, go to RomeVintage.com and check it out. But welcome. Welcome, Danielle. How are you? Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm doing very well. Really excited to be here. I have a lot to say. So yeah, thank you for having me.
00:01:27
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining. At the top, and we've got a lot to talk about, there's no way we're going to get through all of it. There will be a part two, so buckle up. There's going to be a whole lot of Danielle. At the top, what I want to say, I'm so happy to have you here.
00:01:44
Speaker
This is a podcast, so no one can see you, but I wanna frame this because you are, I would just say, and my goal here is to make you blush, but you are a very stylish, beautiful, charismatic woman. You are someone who, you absolutely feel like you
00:02:04
Speaker
We've talked about this once in the past actually. You absolutely feel like somebody who has the capacity to be the life of the party, but you also have the ability to kind of like tune that down and like be one-on-one with someone. Like you seem to me, and this is the whole point of this statement is that of course it's not correct, but I think to an outside observer, you seem like someone who
00:02:30
Speaker
might have a really easy time finding romance because you're so charismatic. You really are. You're so wonderful. And yet, of course, it can be tough, right? So I just wanted to frame that for the listeners. So I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you. Yeah. I succeeded in making you blush a little bit. Yes. Thank you so much for the compliments. Well, I want all the love languages, but words of affirmation is
00:02:55
Speaker
probably my top. So thank you, really appreciate it. I'll take all the words of Af anytime, any day. You're very welcome. You are very welcome. Okay, so let's start off with something light. Yeah. Yes.
Scandoval and Reality TV Impact
00:03:09
Speaker
You wanted to explain Scandivol to me. Is that right?
00:03:13
Speaker
Yes. And I have to say I am not a Bravo expert nor reality show expert. I don't really watch a lot of reality TV, but I have a couple of friends who do and they were really interested in it. And then I found out about it. And then I, just from a psychological, um, and sociological perspective, I thought it was really interesting. And so since it is kind of a hot topic right now, I think it'd be fun to talk about.
00:03:43
Speaker
Yeah. And this happened like weeks ago, right? I think it was a couple months ago was when it all came to the surface and the world was shocked by what had happened. Oh, Misty Liu almost fell off the chair.
00:04:02
Speaker
You want to get down and so she so anyway it I think it's probably losing steam now, but Maybe a little bit, but I don't know. I feel like people are still really talking about it
00:04:15
Speaker
Actually, it's not losing steam because the reunion for Vanderpump rules, which I should just share what this is about. But anyway, I don't think it's losing steam because there was just something that aired a couple of days ago. Right on time. Just to set the frame, you're a non-expert explaining this to me and I'm just totally in the dark. Let's go. Let's take a whack at it. I'm excited. I'm a non-expert. I might get a few things wrong.
00:04:39
Speaker
My understanding is there are two people on this show called Vanderpump Rules, which is... And fun fact, I actually went to college with Pandora Vanderpump, who is the daughter of Lisa Vanderpump, who basically is the leader and the mother of all these
00:05:01
Speaker
people who work in these restaurants. She's a restaurateur and she has become very successful, very savvy businesswoman. I have not met her in person, but I did go to college and have French class with her daughter. But two people on this show, and it's all about the lives of Lisa, but primarily of the people that she employs and who have worked in a restaurant. I think it's been on TV for
00:05:28
Speaker
I don't know, close to 10 years, if not over 10 years. And so we've seen- It's a reality show about a restaurant.
00:05:33
Speaker
It's a reality show about the people who work in the restaurant, but subsequently there's been other restaurants open. I mean, it's become very popular and it's very successful. So you kind of see their lives and then you've seen breakups and get-togethers and marriages and divorces and all of that. But specifically, this scandal or scandal of all is because of three people that are on the show
00:06:00
Speaker
Two of them were in a relationship. They were basically life partners. They weren't married, but they were, what is it, domestic partnership? Like legally, I think they owned a house together. They owned a house together. It was very, I mean, basically married, whatever you want to think of marriage. But
00:06:21
Speaker
And then another woman who was supposedly the woman's best friend or very close friend and the Ariana and what is his name? Oh my gosh. I just taught Ariana and Tom are the couple. And then Raquel or Rachel is the other person that's involved. So basically Tom was having an affair with
00:06:48
Speaker
Raquel, and then Ariana found out. With the best friend. Correct. And then Ariana found out about it. Okay. So, and as you can imagine, well, not this doesn't always happen, but the relationship between Ariana and Tom, I think was already rocky.
00:07:09
Speaker
But things have gone as far as I think Tom was receiving death threats. He has a business with a friend with another Tom on the show and that business tanked. They got all these one-star Yelp reviews and it just exploded. It wasn't really just about that. Because of the affair. Because of the affair. Correct. Yes.
00:07:36
Speaker
yeah um and i think i think i do want to tread lightly because i worry that people won't agree actually pam pam our mutual friend
00:07:51
Speaker
Of course, duh. She's the one who kind of has gotten me a little bit more interested in this because she's a big Vanderpump Rules fan. But of course, people have become really attached to the story and want to know why. Why was there cheating? What was going on? Did Ariana know what was going on? All of this stuff. So what are your thoughts?
00:08:16
Speaker
my gosh, I have so many questions. Can you imagine having just the whole idea of reality television, there's so much to unpack there. Is it really reality? No, it's scripted, there's producers, yada, yada, yada. They're making it more dramatic. But just the thought experiment of me trying to do dating, right? If I had cameras following me around and if I had a following of even a small following of people watching over my shoulder as I went on dates or as I was trying to figure out my
00:08:45
Speaker
emotional romantic life. I would be a mess. Not that I think that I'm doing anything that is deceptive or sneaky or just the extra eyes in the room would totally
00:09:06
Speaker
we just totally change everything. And like this process of finding a partner, which I'm already finding has been very, very challenging, would I'm sure just become like impossible. I don't know. I mean, that's a really banal thing to observe, but yeah. No, I think that's agreed
Personal Relationship History
00:09:22
Speaker
100%. And I think it's interesting because I have never had a relationship last more than maybe a year and a half. Ever. Ever.
00:09:35
Speaker
Really? I'm so surprised to hear that, Danielle. Okay. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. And this kind of ties into what we're going to talk about later, just about, you know, childhood stuff and, or why we, what's our motivation for dating? That's kind of what we're going to talk about later. But yeah, so to imagine that I was in a relationship for 10 years with someone, I can't, I mean, I can't even imagine that. Number one, it's very hard for me to imagine, even though I want that, I do want that.
00:10:02
Speaker
And then number two, to have that be on TV. And then number three, to have this personal thing with the cheating and the friend and all of that also on TV and everyone's talking about it. Yeah. I don't know. Bananas. Bananas. Okay. And so wait, in your note, you said that one of these people said to the other people, I wish you the best or something. Yes. So Ariana was for her first
00:10:30
Speaker
interview she went on a podcast called call her daddy and This is like the first interview that she did after all of this happened. I believe was like a sit down, you know hour and a half long interview and She was talking about how Tom's parents who she was I think close with I mean they dated for 10 years but Tom's parents didn't she said they didn't even reach out to me and say, you know like wish you all the best and
00:10:57
Speaker
Oh, it's a thing. But it's so interesting that that, I mean, after all of that, to her, that felt like enough. After all of that, that's what she was like, she's like, I would have just liked that. I'm like, that's interesting, because we think it's okay to tell someone that after three days.
00:11:22
Speaker
like two dates. Yeah, whatever. And then she was kind of saying, well, I would have really just at least appreciated just a wish you all the best, you know, nice knowing you type of thing. I'm like, Oh my gosh, after 10 years, I think, isn't that wild? I think it's like, that's wild. What we, what we expect of other people and what we will take or what we, what we expect of ourselves. I mean, it's so interesting in terms of interpersonal relationships and how we, uh,
00:11:53
Speaker
measure those and what's expected and accepted. It's just fascinating to me. Yeah. Okay, let's get into the deep stuff because yeah, those questions about like, what are we looking for? What are we expecting? What is a good relationship?
00:12:13
Speaker
You know, this is a wacky segue, but like I can't imagine doing that under the supervision of reality TV cameras, but we do do that in our real lives. And you you sent me a lot of notes about what you want to talk about that I really love that like just getting deep into it. Yeah. And so this section, let's get into it. I'm talking about I do think I don't love this sort of title, but like dating for survival or like dating
00:12:41
Speaker
you're talking about this kind of like lizard brain thing, which I totally relate to. But like there's, I think, I'm gonna correct me here, but just to start it off, like characterizing this as like, there is some sort of like deep, like deep chemical, there's a need to go find somebody to date. And yeah, let's get into that. Well, yeah. And I think it's not, I think
00:13:10
Speaker
I believe, and I think we are not meant to necessarily be monogamous. Like as human beings, we're not necessarily meant to be monogamous. However, we have created this structure of partnership that builds security when maybe there wouldn't necessarily be security and this idea of family. And so when you think about survival,
00:13:40
Speaker
I personally don't feel like I could survive on my own forever in terms of, uh, not, not in terms of partnership, but literally let's say I was alone on the earth by myself and I had all the things I needed food, water, shelter, whatever. I couldn't, I would not be able to survive. Like I just would, I would, you know, and so, yeah, same right. There's these needs that we have that are just,
00:14:10
Speaker
these base needs. And also, I just I can't help but get this vision out of my mind of like being and I mentioned this before we got started here was being in an arena. And basically, I'm fighting for my life.
00:14:29
Speaker
And if I don't have a partner, if I don't have a family, no one would come and be on my side and fight for my life. Or here's another scenario that I think about sometimes is what if I was framed for murder and I knew I didn't, I didn't do it. And like, no one knew my character and everyone else in the world thought I did it. If I didn't have family or my chosen family, which would be a partner and what whoever, you know, that chosen family.
00:14:57
Speaker
or and or parents or cousins or sisters or whatever who really unconditionally loved me, no one would care whether or not I was put into an institution for the rest of my life or was put in jail for the rest of my life. No one would, I mean they would but
00:15:15
Speaker
There's so much to unpack, but really quickly, I do want to address that. I've seen you around friends. I hope you count me as a close friend. There are people who would come to your defense if you were accused of murder. I would go so far as to say there are people who would probably bury a body for you, Danielle, if you really, really did. What? No. That's what I was going to say. What if I actually did commit a murder? Would you still be there? I don't know, but my mom would.
00:15:38
Speaker
I would respectfully try to dissuade you from doing the murder in the first place. I would try to find another solution. But I think I hear what you're getting at. The way that I think about that is that I think these days, this decade, our generation,
00:16:00
Speaker
I think it's this big underrated problem of just finding and having community. I think it's difficult for men and for women, for everyone, to find
Community and Relationship Motivations
00:16:10
Speaker
community. And I think it is a really fundamental need. I think it is something that we chemically, however you want to think about it, lizard brain, we need to feel like we've got people. In that arena that you're talking about, that mental image, I think we do need to feel like we've got people who
00:16:26
Speaker
have our back. For me, it's even a physical thing. I feel so much better when I am not too physically far away from the people who I know will be there for me if I need them, even though I know I probably won't. I probably won't need to call my friend and have him come over because I can't get out of bed or that I'm sick or something. But feeling like I could if I needed to, I think
00:16:53
Speaker
soothes me or makes me feel more myself. And when I don't have that, I really feel that kind of fight or flight, you know, kind of instinct. Yeah. When you say fight or flight, do you have a fear? Sorry. Do you get like, do you have a fear about it or? I think, I think, I think what I would just say is like, like when I feel like I don't have community, the more alone I feel
00:17:19
Speaker
the more difficult it is to sleep, the more sort of on edge I am, the more I can feel myself just sort of like my brain, my mind is chemically ready to be more confrontational, more fight or flight. I guess I don't mean it so much in a way that I'm actually threatened, but
00:17:43
Speaker
that my brain sort of shifts into that mode, where if I have people, if I feel like I'm surrounded by people who love me, I'm so much more able to, I would say be myself, to be vulnerable around someone new, since we're talking about dating, or be comfortable talking with somebody who doesn't see things my way politically, or learning something new that I'm not familiar with, and not feeling embarrassed, or not feeling
00:18:11
Speaker
You know what I mean? Just, I feel much more, I think, stable. And I think, I hope more myself when I have that community. Does that make sense? Yes. Absolutely. And so, yeah, so I love what you're kind of talking about here, or I want to get into this. This sort of like deep, deep need for dating, this
00:18:37
Speaker
And I think that it's not one need. I think there's a lot to unpack here, but if I'm hearing you right, what you sent in this note, but let's talk about it. I think I do feel a deep drive to find an awesome partner and I've got a pretty, I'm very picky and maybe that's a problem, but like I know that there are a lot of things that I'm looking for in a potential partner.
00:18:58
Speaker
Because I'm looking for somebody, and as you say, maybe monogamy isn't natural, right? But I do think I'm looking for one partner who wants to hang out for the next 55 years, right? Which is a big ask, right? And I do think there is, for me anyway, kind of a deep, a really deep urge, a deep drive to find that. And all the caveats, I'm so lucky that that's the thing that I'm working on. I'm lucky to have the job, family, friends, my health.
00:19:28
Speaker
Um, but having all that privilege, I do, I feel that deep drive to go and find, um, that partner. So I don't know to maybe start off here. I wanted to give you the opportunity to, or let me hand the mic to you. Like talk to me about if you feel that deep drive, what it feels like to you. I know it's complex. I know there's a lot in there, but I just kind of want to let you go. Yeah. So I, I do have that deep drive.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I wanted, I was going to kind of interject and ask if you wanted kids. Cause that's another question. Um, I, um, the short answer is I'm not a hundred percent sure. Um, but let's put a pin in that because that's a whole other conversation that could be episode three, maybe. Yes. So I do want children. And I know that I have an option to have a child without having a partner. That's definitely.
00:20:25
Speaker
an option, but it's not an option that I would like. I don't really want to raise a child. At this point in my life, that could change, but at this point in my life, I don't want to raise a child alone. I've been very fortunate enough to see my friends start raising children, having children, and it's very hard.
00:20:49
Speaker
It's not an easy job. It's going to be the hardest thing to ever do. And we ask so much of mothers. Yeah. Well, and fathers too. I mean, I just don't want to do that alone or yeah. Yeah. And, um, so I do want children. So for me, I have that I do have a biological clock. It just, that's just how it is. I'm there will come a time when I can no longer have children, uh, from my own,
00:21:18
Speaker
stuff. So I really do want that. But I think this idea of societal pressure, I don't think I feel that. And I don't feel pressure from my family, which is also very lucky. I think a lot of people have great amounts of pressure from their families and I don't.
00:21:45
Speaker
Hardly get anyone ever asking me, why aren't you married? I mean, occasionally someone will say that as a compliment. Oh my gosh, I can't believe you're single. You're so amazing. So that's, you know, but other than that, I've heard that too. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's like a, yeah, it's a double inch sword. It's like, that's great, but also terrible. Um, at the same time, uh, feeling wise.
Past Relationships and Survival Instincts
00:22:13
Speaker
So,
00:22:16
Speaker
I do really want, again, I really want a partner. I have gone through tons of therapy, introspection, self-work, retreats, things like that to get to this point. And it's been a roundabout long journey, but I, yeah, I'm ready to do that. In the past, my motivation for finding a partner
00:22:45
Speaker
It was different. It was about survival. It was about feeling wanted. It was about me. It was 100% about me and my own needs. And that is not the type of partnership I'm looking for. And it was very apparent that that was not the type of partnership that was going to last. I made a ton of mistakes. I hurt people. I
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, I, I wasn't the best girlfriend. I had tons of relationships back to back. I've now been single for a little over two and a half years. Um, almost like an addict, right? I think I was addicted to a relationship. I was addicted to feeling desired and feeling important and feeling worthy or good. I think good was what I use, maybe importance not the right, but feeling good, like good enough to be on this planet and
00:23:45
Speaker
I was kind of a disaster, honestly. I mean, we all have to learn, right? But I can look back on that time in my life and I made decisions that I regret. But instead of regret, I've turned them into learnings, which is amazing. So my motivation for dating now is
00:24:10
Speaker
to build something with someone in an equal partnership. One other thing that's really important to me is being physically attracted to my partner. Maybe people think that's actually surface level because it is, but attraction I think is something that we don't necessarily deem to be
00:24:36
Speaker
a good thing to look for right now. It's like, oh, most don't mean anything. It's like, okay, well, okay, yes. It's what's inside that counts, but attraction means something. So I've kind of gone around. Did I answer your question? I'm just going to go into some more things. I would love to, but thank you for being so vulnerable with that. I love that so much. I mean, I will say I am definitely looking, I think it is really important just to feel
00:25:03
Speaker
attracted to your partner, and I struggle with the same thing where it's like I feel a little bit vain, I feel a little bit shallow, but I would love to be in a partnership with somebody who is, especially when you're first growing that budding relationship, to feel that chemical spark, to feel that warm desire, that hunger for someone. I think that's... Yeah, and I don't really know how to navigate that. I don't know what to do about that.
00:25:33
Speaker
I'm, you know, there are people who are privileged who can, you know, have lucky genetics and who have the time to go to the gym and who have the ability to eat right or whatever. Um, and that, you know, helps to become more, I dunno, like it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing, but yeah, I think it needs to be there. Yeah, agreed. And, and, but people who I'm attracted to are not necessarily who people, other people, I think that there are, you know, like, okay.
00:26:01
Speaker
there are attractive people out there that the majority of people would also agree are attractive. But who I think is attractive, a mutual friend of ours, we don't necessarily always agree on who we think is attractive.
00:26:22
Speaker
That's great, because if we all thought the same people were attractive, then there wouldn't be enough. That's fair. It's great. Can I pull on that thread? Because again, this podcast, I'm hoping to encouragement to speak more vulnerably about emotional things like dating. I am 1,000% sure that if I'm a dude listening to this podcast and I've never met Scott and I've never met Danielle, I would be dying to know what is it that Danielle finds physically attractive? What is it about?
00:26:51
Speaker
if you can talk about that for just a moment, or if there's anything there. And maybe if you even know, is it just sometimes you know it when you feel it? Well, okay, I could go really detailed and be like, well, I really like when faces look like this. Okay, I'm a big face person. I actually don't really like
00:27:13
Speaker
super chiseled body. I like more of a dad bod. I'm taking notes to stop doing cardio. I think I would prefer someone who has maybe a nice shape when I'm talking about body-like physicality, but has a little frosting on top.
00:27:36
Speaker
like a little extra. I don't know. I'm not into the like chisel. Yeah. Um, but I'm really face is everything. Like if someone has a handsome face and hands, handsome face and hands are my like weak points. That's what I really look
00:27:55
Speaker
love. That's what's really attractive to me. And eyes are part of your face and so eyes can be very attractive to me as well. So any aspect of the face knows eyes. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Of course. Because I think sometimes a lot of the dating discourse, especially dating discourse available to men or aimed at men, is really about
00:28:24
Speaker
I mean, there's all this toxic stuff out there, but it tells you that women are looking for you to be built like a superhero and be fabulously wealthy.
00:28:38
Speaker
I think the internet has brought us to this, the internet and the way that the internet sort of promotes controversial opinions, you know, like algorithmic social media will always elevate the like hottest take, right? And I think that's turned into a dialogue that's created sort of like an us versus them thing with straight men and straight women or straightish men and straightish women, where a lot of men- Love the ish, by the way, love the ish. Well, you know, I try to be, I mean, to be fair, this is mostly a hetero perspective and podcast, right? Because I really can't speak to the queer experience, but right?
00:29:08
Speaker
So men versus women, the straights.
Masculinity and Dating Dynamics
00:29:13
Speaker
I think there is this kind of dialogue or this kind of, what do I want to say, dynamic where there are men, I don't say all men, but there are men who really feel like they're having a hard time dating, women are looking for, and it's not fair because they don't have the chiseled jawline and the 3% body fat and they can't squat 500 pounds.
00:29:34
Speaker
And they're not super duper rich, right? They you see all these ideals of what like that desirable man looks like And it's totally unattainable, you know It's like you have to be shooting steroids and born rich and also it's absurdly lucky and successful You know what I mean? Like I think wait, where do you think that comes from and I'm I'm looking for I'm wondering if you're gonna catch on to what I was saying because it's kind of that same word that we talked about earlier, where do you think that comes from for women heterosexual women
00:30:05
Speaker
What do I think? This idea of wanting the strong. I mean, look, I would like wave my arms broadly and like gesture it like the patriarchy. Right. Like I think I think there are. Oh, gosh, there's a lot to unpack here. I think I think in general. I think men are in a very weird place right now because I think you feel like generations ago,
00:30:33
Speaker
what you wanted to do to be a successful man was in this post-industrial revolution ballpark. But what you wanted to do to be a successful man was basically be able to provide. Be a provider because we lived in a society where for a woman to survive, and there's that word,
00:30:52
Speaker
but for a woman to survive, you basically had to find a man. You basically weren't permitted, and some women did, but for the most part, women, you just really weren't permitted to exist on your own in society. You couldn't have a bank account, all that kind of stuff, right? If a man has muscles or a chiseled body can squat 500 pounds and has wealth, how does that impact a woman's
00:31:22
Speaker
feeling of being able to survive? That's a good question. I think, okay, so I think the physical side of it is speaks to another piece of, I think it's a bad term, but what we call toxic masculinity, right? Like I think the ideal is a man who can provide and a man who can protect, right? Like I think in stories, we see men being protectors and like that involves basically like idealizing or lionizing or, you know,
00:31:52
Speaker
associating a positive capacity for violence. If a guy has a capacity for violence, it's some people, some women, what some people would say that that's a desirable thing in a man. Yeah, and I think those are sort of aspects of sort of what our ideals of manhood have been in the past. And I think one of the things that that is putting men today in a tricky spot is that
00:32:22
Speaker
I mean, if you're not, it's just like in places like San Francisco or the big city, San Francisco, LA, New York, like being a provider, you know, you can make a really, really, really good living in a big city and still be just getting by, right? So like offering a comfortable life to somebody as like a, I don't wanna say bargaining chip or as like part of the deal when you're coming to a relationship.
00:32:52
Speaker
You've got to be doing very, very well to offer someone just more comfort than she can earn on her own because women are more than capable now than making their own way. And you, again, you're a small business owner, you know this, which I think is good. I think that's a good thing. I think assigning value to men based on what they can earn is
00:33:15
Speaker
I can only speak personally, but that's not what I'm looking for. I don't want someone to value me because of what I can earn, not that I earn a ton. But I want someone to value me because I want to be seen. I want to be understood and feel like they like the quirky, weird, unique piece of me that is me. Does that make sense? Totally. The big buff muscles thing. I think that comes from
00:33:44
Speaker
stories about heroes, maybe not superheroes, but the movies about big strong men and idealizing athletes. Well, and where did the movies come from? Where did the movies come from? I don't know. But I don't know. Do you agree? I think there's- Yes.
00:34:03
Speaker
that ideal. And there's also a certain idea for women, but that's a whole other thing. Yes. And what I'm getting at, I think that I'm digging into, and I'm doing this selfishly because I think about this a lot, is like, where did that come from? What is it from the very beginning of time when human beings, however we came to be, whatever you believe
00:34:34
Speaker
What attracted people to each other at that time? And it was literally, I mean, and I am no scientist historian at all. So if I'm wrong, I apologize. But my understanding is if I was back at that time in the cave woman man era,
00:34:59
Speaker
I would be attracted to someone who could save me from a wooly mammoth. Right, right, right. I think, yeah, I don't know. So why, but attraction, like what, but I don't need to be saved from a wooly mammoth anymore. So what, what is attraction now? Do I, and what do I need to be saved? Do I need to be saved at all? Yeah. What's my motivation for dating? If I don't need to be saved, then why do it?
00:35:29
Speaker
I mean, I have an answer to that, but it's kind of these questions that come up when we think about dating and modern dating and this desire and motivation for partnering. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:46
Speaker
I mean, there's so much there. I should start paying someone a dollar for every time I say there's so much to unwrap there or to unpack there, because I always say that. But there is. I mean, I grapple with this a lot more. You can have a jar. Not that you do that. I'm just saying that would be a cute little addition to the podcast, because you could do the ASMR. You just drop a coin and it goes,
00:36:09
Speaker
Uh-huh, uh-huh. I do wrestle with this a lot because for me, I wonder sometimes if I am
00:36:19
Speaker
Like I find chemistry and spark, I find attraction based on things that aren't actually in my best interest, right? Like somebody who is physically attractive for whatever reason, because she's got like the jawline that I like, or she's got pretty eyes that I like, or she's got curves that I like, that kind of thing, whatever. Because I would say I have a list just like you do of things that I've noticed that I find get my attention when I'm looking at someone across the room.
00:36:50
Speaker
Um, or I guess more appropriately on the apps, right? But hopefully across the room, I wish I could. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I wonder sometimes if those things, like I, I guess I, there's a tension I feel within myself that it's like, should I be challenging those things? Should I be, should I be investigating myself and saying like, Hey, maybe I shouldn't be chasing somebody because they have that jawline that I'm attracted to. Um, maybe I should learn to prioritize things that are going to.
00:37:19
Speaker
better my chances of having that awesome 55-year partnership, right? And I don't know the answer. A, I don't know if I could. And B, I don't know if I should. I've done it. I've done it. You have? I want to hear all about it. Yes. So because my motivation for dating in the past was survival.
00:37:50
Speaker
and was to feel good and worthy to be on this planet. I couldn't afford to be very picky about attraction. So the most important thing to me was someone who made me feel good and worthy. And again, I mean, this was, and this wasn't all the time,
00:38:21
Speaker
a lot that I understand now that those were the needs and I was so scared and I was so hurt and I just was struggling. And so I have dated- And can I pause you real quick for a sec? Sure. Just to unpack one thing, when you say survival, to get back to that, and that's a word that we're using a lot here, which I love. Yeah. Just to be clear for the listeners, are you talking about you needed to find a partner so that you could
00:38:51
Speaker
pay rent and have food on the plate or you're talking about like it felt like you needed to find partnership because you felt like it was a survival instinct. Survival instinct. I had money and rent. I had food, shelter, clothes. I had everything that I could need or want.
00:39:11
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Got it. I just wanted to clarify. Yes. That's really good. Yes. That's really good clarification. It wasn't like I was living on the streets and I needed a partner. Yes. Thank you. That's really important to clarify. No, I, it was an emotional survival. Um, yes, emotional survival and
00:39:33
Speaker
I think it comes from this cave person era where I could be shunned and left for dead on the side of the road. And I didn't know this at the time, but I've dug deep into this. And so circling back to what you're saying about you have thought to yourself, should I try to date?
00:39:58
Speaker
someone that maybe I'm less attracted to physically, but maybe I could, you know, the longevity because of our agreement on politics or whatever would be, you know, something, whatever you could think might create a longer standing long-term partnership. So I oscillate between like, well, because of my experiences,
00:40:25
Speaker
I will never date someone again that I'm not physically attracted to. So, and that's the thing is I became physically attracted to them, but actually it got muddy because I don't really know there were chemicals involved, like in terms of attachment and was that really attraction or was it attachment based on need and what, you know, there was a lot to, to think about there. So if I'm not initially physically attracted to someone when I see them for the first time, it's a no go.
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that can be controversial. And I, you know, I hope I don't get canceled, but looks on everything. I understand that looks are not everything, but I think I've, I've worked on this a lot in therapy and I actually see it working out. Like Misty Liu is so cute.
00:41:15
Speaker
And she's not perfect. And I know she's just a dog, but not just, I mean, she's family. She is my everything. And she's not my partner, but I have to take care of her and I have to build a relationship with her. And it needs to be longstanding because I'm going to have her for the rest of her life. And I have noticed myself, you know, loving her,
00:41:44
Speaker
despite all of everything that she could make my life harder in certain ways if she goes to the bathroom inside or something like that. Because she's cute. Which she never does, by the way. Right. Because she's cute and I think she's adorable and she's so cute to me.
00:42:01
Speaker
I don't stay mad at her like that's so basic that seems so like third grader but it like there's a part of you that needs to just tap into that childlike attraction that's just like oh you're cute like how great would that be if you're really upset with your partner and they came home and you're upset with them and you have the conversation you have good communication i'm not saying that you don't communicate and you don't work on the things you work on but how much easier would it be if you thought that person was really cute yeah yeah yeah physically
00:42:32
Speaker
Right. So much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Let's, um, I want to try to, yeah, yeah. Looking for a physical attraction. I, I, I mean, A that we don't have a huge listenership. I don't think we're going to like trend on Twitter and get canceled, but I agree with you. I do think I.
00:42:48
Speaker
I don't know if I would say this is right for everyone.
Modern Dating Options and Physical Attraction
00:42:51
Speaker
I'm not sure that I would give anybody else this advice, but I know for me, I'm hoping to find somebody who, yeah, I feel that attraction and I'm hoping because that's what I'll... Let me put it this way. Oh, sorry.
00:43:04
Speaker
I was just, sorry, I'm interrupting. I, there's this one, there's this ego. I'm using this maybe a little bit to my advantage, but there's this ego part of me too. That's like, you deserve that. You can have that. You are, you offer enough to be able, but then again, I think, gosh, like a hundred years ago, what, I mean, what could I have got? I mean, it's so, so I oscillate between you deserve that or you don't, you're just,
00:43:32
Speaker
You're not better than anyone else. You shouldn't even care what they, like attraction. You're not, you don't deserve it. So I oscillate, but I know it hasn't worked for me and I've tried it over and over again where I wasn't physically attracted to someone and it didn't work. So I'm just trying to go with, okay. And I don't care what anyone else thinks. That's the other thing. Like if I think they're attractive, that's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, what I would say is like, you know, I think in, in,
00:44:01
Speaker
You're a very attractive lady. You're very awesome. Fair. Okay, fair. I would say broad strokes speaking, conventional attractiveness. Let me put it this way. I know there are a lot of dudes who are swiping right on you on the apps when you're on the apps, which is to say, I think what I wanted to say was,
00:44:22
Speaker
I think a lot of people, maybe you more than most, but I think a lot of people have quote unquote options. Modern dating, the internet gives us access to date 1,000 people. And the downside is we can also date 1,000 people. I say that a lot, but I do. I think that's kind of the core of the issue.
00:44:41
Speaker
I think there's a piece of me that feels like if I did drop the need to feel that physical attraction, I would have a lot of options, right? And I would wager to say that you would too. If you decided you wanted to drop that physical attraction requirement,
00:45:00
Speaker
it's probably pretty straightforward to find because you're a nice enough person. You've done the work. I feel like I've done a lot of work like I can and we're getting a little, we could talk about being like a chameleon in a relationship too, right? But like I feel like when you have enough, I feel like I'm at a point where I could probably make a relationship work
00:45:21
Speaker
with you.
00:45:36
Speaker
I'm not trying to say that I could make it work with anybody because that's not true. But I think if I knocked that physical attractive checkbox off of my requirements, that would open it up to a lot more people because I'm attracted to physically certain things, right? And I think there are days when I feel like, well, if I just ignored that, I would be able to... My odds of finding happiness might be better.
00:46:02
Speaker
But as you say, I've tried it, you know, and it's like when you do that. That's the thing. You're saying if I ignore it, find happiness. If you ignore something, can you find happiness? It's like, right. If you it's almost like saying if I could just become someone with blonde hair. Yeah, I would. If I could be born with blonde hair, then I would have this, you know, it's like, yeah, right. I'm.
00:46:33
Speaker
Thank you.