Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Laney Tucker - Heartbreak, Relationships, and going viral for getting Ghosted
34 Plays3 months ago
I finally found someone who likes to nerd out about this stuff as much as I do! Enjoy my chat with Laney Tucker, I'm very excited to have her on again soon!
Laney's Heartbreak & Relationship Coaching (no promo code, let her know you heard the episode and maybe she will give you a discount?? =]? )
IG - @laneyytucker
TikTok - @laneyytucker
wishyouallthebestpod@gmail.com
music - "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch -https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Modern Dating with Lainey Tucker
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:00:06
Speaker
a
00:00:14
Speaker
All the best personal podcasts about modern dating. I'm your host, Scott Simmons. And my guest for this episode, I'm really, really excited about. um Her name is Lainey Tucker. We literally met on the beach in Santa Monica playing beach tennis, which is a very...
00:00:31
Speaker
i don't know. That's a very Santa Monica way to meet somebody. Um, but we didn't have to talk for very long before I noticed that Lainey is like, ah as passionate, if not more passionate than I am about this modern dating stuff. She can really, um, nerd out about it. And she's very
Lainey's Journey and Breakup Tools
00:00:49
Speaker
articulate about it. And I spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff.
00:00:51
Speaker
Um, part of her business is doing, a heartbreak and relationship coaching. Um, uh so yeah i mean i i let's just get right into this i'm really excited about introducing you to laney i'm hoping this is not the last time she'll be on the pod i think we've got a lot of really cool stuff to talk about um just to plug her stuff go find her if you like what you're hearing here laney tucker l-a-n-e-y t-u-c-k-e-r dot c-o uh, Laney Tucker.co. Go check her out there.
00:01:23
Speaker
Um, and on and Instagram, she's just, uh, Laney Y Tucker, Laney with two Y's Tucker. Um, you can find her on there. she's got a lot of cool content. I assume TikTok as well.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'm too old to be on TikTok, so I can't point you to the right place there. Um, and she also, um, I believe she's going to get me a promo code. Um, Yeah.
00:01:47
Speaker
if you listen to the episode and you're going through relationship difficulty or if you're going through heartbreak a breakup and you need you need somebody to help out i think it's very cool that people are doing this kind of thing that you can swing it you need the help i think she's just done a lot of work on this and she's um you know might be somebody who can help you through that stuff if that's what you're doing um so look in the uh um description for the episode to find that link i don't have it yet to be honest but i'll make sure i get it and i'll put it in the description use that um to get a discount because you know why not um but yeah uh uh let's get into it let's get to the my conversation with uh laney tucker enjoy
00:02:37
Speaker
uh lany tucker thank you so much for uh joining me on wish you all the best welcome welcome how are you so good to be here thanks for having me scott i'm amazing how are you doing i'm doing well i'm doing well i'm
Healing and New Beginnings
00:02:49
Speaker
so excited to talk to you we've had a couple of conversations about this stuff and uh it's rare that i meet somebody who is as interested in modern dating as i am so lany i'm really excited to have you on here so thank you no of course Okay, so by way of introduction for the audience, um you are a ah lawyer and also a heartbreak slash relationship coach, heartbreak relationship coach, is that right?
00:03:10
Speaker
um And you once went viral for getting ghosted, exciting. For anybody that wants to check you out, i always want to plug this stuff early, laneytucker.co, L-A-N-E-Y-T-U-C-K-E-R.
00:03:23
Speaker
And you're on Instagram, laney with two Y's, Tucker. So laneyytucker, everyone definitely go check laney out. um But okay, I would love to jump in or I would love to sort of start um with the heartbreak relationship coach stuff.
00:03:37
Speaker
How did you, when did you start that? How did you get into it? What does that mean? Tell me everything. Yeah. So
The Evolving Dating Landscape
00:03:44
Speaker
um that is a long story. i um well, I think I should probably rewind with how I started um social media in general and sort of how that all transpired and evolved.
00:03:56
Speaker
So I started posting on social media um on under a different account. I was hiding, essentially, from the world. um But I had a different account right after I got out of a really nasty um heartbreak, or ah while I was honestly processing heartbreak.
00:04:14
Speaker
I was posting about dating, and then I just stopped entirely. And then a few months ago, I challenged myself to post every single day on my main account, my my regular account that my family and friends were following that previously was a private account, every single day as a way to get over being a people pleaser.
00:04:32
Speaker
So initially it had nothing to do with
Addressing Emotional Well-being in Men
00:04:35
Speaker
you know any sort of objective surrounding dating, but um the content, I mean, was really popular. And at the time I was in Bali trying to get over my ex and also dating while I was there. So the content ended up being about heartbreak and about dating.
00:04:51
Speaker
um and sort of brought me to my purpose, which was and after a whole entire year of struggling to get over my ex and just nothing was working, I ended up coming up with a tool that got me out of the heartbreak.
00:05:07
Speaker
it's It's free on my website. It's called the Breakup Survival Journal. And it essentially is a journaling exercise that gets you sort of out of your head um and gets things on paper for you to actually see in front of you Why did we not work out? And why is it important that I not go back?
00:05:24
Speaker
um And that tool is what ultimately got me over him, in addition to, you know, other exercises and and things that I did. and so it sort of brought me to my purpose of, you know what, I went through such pain and such hell and, and things were just not helping me that I would love to give back and help others in that same boat now that I've created a tool and sort of an entire construct surrounding how to get yourself out of that. So actually, I'm writing a course right now.
00:05:56
Speaker
It's 10 different steps of, you know, exactly. it It's modules of, you know, what to do, when, how to get over your ex that I think is going to be really powerful. And it's unlike anything I've seen out there. So, yeah, it really is.
00:06:10
Speaker
came from a place of of going through it myself, becoming an expert in the field by having to endure it and get myself out of it. And so this is sort of a way that I want to be getting back to others. And it's been really, really successful so far. I've had extremely great results from clients. I mean, people even ending up back in new healthy relationships in no time flat because they're really able to process those emotions quickly. So it's been great. It's been really rewarding.
00:06:37
Speaker
ah super love that. Okay, wait. and Am I hearing this right? You had a nasty breakup and then you just went to Bali to like get over it. You're like, I'm going to Bali. Not quite like that. It actually, I broke, we broke up a whole year before my Bali trip.
00:06:51
Speaker
ah um But you know, it was one of those that wasn't a clean break. Like we revisited, talked about reconciling and revisited again. And, and, and so it kind of, It was a tumultuous year. It was a lot of a lot of processing, a lot of pain, a lot of sort of, did I do the right thing? Did I not? um You know, in initiating this breakup to begin with.
00:07:11
Speaker
um And so finally a friend, you know, was going on this yoga retreat to Bali, which sounds so just cliche, but he was like, you know, why don't you come? I know you've been struggling. So yeah, that's does ultimately, that was a big reason for why I went was that I, plus,
00:07:28
Speaker
my job was killing me. So it was, it was sort of a mix of the two, but, The large impetus was to go get over him. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, yeah, that's a very like West Side Los Angeles thing to like, yeah I need to go to Bali.
00:07:41
Speaker
No, I mean, honestly, quick, like aside, like I remember I was at a time in my life, maybe kind of the same age we are. I was in my early 30s and I was just having ah a really, really awful time. And a friend was like, I'm in Southeast Asia.
00:07:53
Speaker
I'm buying you a plane ticket. You can't say no, you jerk. I know going to try to say no, but you're having a hard time. So here's a non-refundable ticket to New Delhi. a friend. He was amazing. Honestly, it was, uh, and having that time away really, uh, it really gave me the space to like do a lot of important thinking and, and like, um, I really, really grateful for that.
00:08:13
Speaker
Um, which is an amazing privilege of right, of course, but, no of course um, okay. That's amazing. So it sounds like you got to take, and I'm sorry that that was such a hard experience, but it sounded like, sounds like you got a lot out of that and you sort of turned that into kind of what you're doing, what you're doing here today. That's awesome.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think um anytime you're given a life experience like that, that's painful, that you are able to get yourself out of, especially when you come out of it sort of with insights that could really help other people.
00:08:42
Speaker
it's It's so powerful to be able to give that back. So I've really enjoyed the work, um you know, helping, helping multiple people get get through their heartbreaks and come out the other side stronger. So it's it's good. It's really rewarding.
00:08:56
Speaker
That's really cool. Do you, did you help mostly, or maybe it's an even split, but do you help mostly men or women? It is actually an even split. Yeah. Really? Which is amazing.
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah. Because, you know, I, I think that men um are, you know, and not their fault at all, but society kind of tells men, you know, they need to bottle their, their emotions up and can't feel their feelings.
00:09:18
Speaker
And what I've seen is actually when men do that after a breakup, what ends up happening is the woman directly goes into the healing mode and she's trying to better herself. So she's able to get over that heartbreak that much quicker.
00:09:31
Speaker
Whereas the man like, you know, drinks it away, parties it away, whatever the case may be. And then few months down the road, all of a sudden it smacks him in the face. Right. And so what I've really been trying to encourage is men, you know, coming in and and dealing with it head on right away um And so, you know, I've had male clients that do that and the results are amazing. I mean, you know, to I think to be given the permission to to feel those feelings and really go through it, um you know, sometimes sometimes they need that, just unfortunately kind of the way society has taught men that they are supposed to be. So um I'm really glad to create that space for them of like, this is a safe space to feel your emotions. It's human. You should be feeling them.
00:10:15
Speaker
it's normal when you're breaking up with someone. I mean, that's and a traumatic experience for for everybody. so yeah, it's been even. Yeah. I mean, I think way I kind of often think about that is like, if you if you if you're not able to get hurt, then you're not being vulnerable. And if you're not being vulnerable, you're not you're not really kind of getting what you can get out of the relationship. You're not really like doing it, you know?
00:10:39
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. So, okay. So it's it's it's heartbreak and relationship coaching. um I'm sure you have thoughts about dating. um You went viral for for getting ghosted.
00:10:52
Speaker
How does, I mean, and maybe the answer is not at all, but like, how does your coaching um relate to dating or is it really focused on like the connection once it's there and recovering from heartbreak?
00:11:04
Speaker
No, it's definitely both. I have some clients that are not going through a current heartbreak. They're just looking for a relationship and not having a lot of success. um And you know, what's interesting is I still make them do my journal anyway, my breakup survival journal, even if they're not currently heartbroken.
00:11:21
Speaker
The reason being, I am convinced that everybody stores something from a heartbreak in their heart, some belief about themselves, some belief about finding a partner,
00:11:32
Speaker
And I want to get to the root of that so that we can examine it and then really get them to move on fully. Because sometimes, you know, someone will go through a breakup, have that create some sort of thought or idea about themselves or what they're worth or or what they're going to find in the marketplace.
00:11:47
Speaker
And then that actually just directly manifests itself in their dating reality years down the road. So I do make everyone look back at past relationships. But sure, I mean, I have clients who are are just fully dating right now, you know, they haven't been in a relationship and in a long time and they're looking for one.
00:12:06
Speaker
So I know all about the dating landscape, both from them and from myself, um since i'm I'm currently single and going through it with them, which, you know, some people, some people criticize me for that. And they're like, well, why would I want a dating coach who's single?
00:12:21
Speaker
And my point on that is why would you want a dating coach who's been in a relationship for a while? Because I'll tell you I'll tell you that even the dating landscape from when I was dating back in 2022 compared to now is so drastically different.
00:12:38
Speaker
So it actually is very useful to have someone that like fully understands that. Yeah. I mean, I'll play the old man card on you here. Like I was on dating apps back when like, okay, Cupid was one that was what people actually use. Oh my God. What a throwback.
00:12:53
Speaker
That's really, really cool. I mean, I really like that. Um, Okay, so how, well, let me think. um what What is the, I'm really curious about the coaching thing.
00:13:05
Speaker
Like what what does the life cycle look like? Someone finds you says, hey, I saw you on um Instagram or TikTok. You do relationship coaching. going through a hard time. Can you help me? You figure out, um I don't know, I'm sure it's like a weekly or biweekly or whatever the cadence is. Like, how how do you think about sort of like the life cycle of helping someone? Do you, I mean, do you just kind of like,
00:13:25
Speaker
like, like meet up, see somebody for as long as they feel like they need you? Or do you have like a like, like, does this journal thing kind of take them through a workflow where they, when they get to the end, they're kind of like, you know what i mean? Like, is there like a milestone thing? I'm just curious about that.
00:13:39
Speaker
Um, it's very dependent on the client and what they want and their needs. Um, I think ideally, uh, I suggest that people work with me for, you know, three months or so.
00:13:51
Speaker
okay Um, at a minimum. I have some that'll do six, which I think is great too. um does really depend. But you know for for people that are really going through a nasty heartbreak, like I suggest at least three months with me to really like get them through that and then also set them up for success while dating again.
00:14:15
Speaker
But yeah, the life cycle looks like you know um we have our first meeting, which is really just for me to learn about their situation and what they're going through. And then everyone is assigned specific homework assignments based on their needs and their situation, which, um you know, they're not easy. Like I'm ah i'm not in the in the business of babysitting people and and of just listening to them.
00:14:37
Speaker
I'm different from going to say a therapist because I give active homework assignments. I tell you things you're not gonna wanna hear. I'm not just there to listen. I'm there to actually get you out of it.
00:14:49
Speaker
so um it does depend on the person, but yeah, everyone walks away with minimum three homework assignments. So it's definitely an investment in like these, these are for people that are ambitious and wanting to get over their heartbreak or ambitious in finding their person. Right.
00:15:05
Speaker
um So yeah, it's a lot of investigating the past. It's a lot of self-confidence work. It's, it's, um, it's it's, you know, for the people that are currently in the dating market, it's looking at their dating profiles, trying to figure out, you know, where they might be going a little bit astray, where they might be matching with people that maybe they shouldn't be matching with, like how to kind of identify the sorts of matches that they are looking for.
00:15:31
Speaker
um And, you know, how to actually, ah there's some some some people that have been out of the game or that you know, don't feel super confident in in asking someone out or like in sort of the early phases of dating. So it's sort of providing some perspective and assistance there. But more than anything, what I try to do with everyone is have them reconnect with themselves above all else and with, you know, things that inspire them, that make them happy, that make them feel alive and like themselves so that they go into the dating market confident and knowing exactly who they are and exactly who they want.
00:16:08
Speaker
Because if you go out there without a clear objective, you're not going to find what you're looking for. So we get really, really granular about what exactly you want in partner. And, you know, I make people do lists and it's like, it's not, you know, there's there's there's the absolute must and that's a short list.
00:16:27
Speaker
I don't let people go get too carried away with that. And then there's the nice to have list, which is these are additional things that I would like, but the must, you know, sometimes you'll get caught up of like, you'll you'll match with someone on a dating app and you're like, oh, that person's so attractive.
00:16:41
Speaker
And you go out with them and you're like, okay, but they're missing two of my must. So what am I doing here? You know? so it really kind of helps people to connect back to what am I actually hoping to gain out of this experience?
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah. um Okay. I want to put a pin in matching with the right people because I think that's a really big deal. So hang on, yeah hang on. um But kind of like, Bigger like galaxy brain take here.
00:17:07
Speaker
Isn't it like, so you and I've talked before about this and like kind of like the state of of of modern dating and modern relationships and how it kind of is reflective of or like how it's it's kind of a byproduct of so many big cultural things, right? Again, to get really big brain here about it, but like, you know, i guess I just wanted to pause and like kind of, if there's if there's anything you want to say about like, like,
00:17:32
Speaker
In a way, I think it's a really good thing that you can have something like a heartbreak and and relationship coach because like it's something that um you know people need support with, right? I think, okay, a very skeptical part of of my brain might say like, well, isn't this what friends are for, right? And people say that about therapy sometimes. It's like, well, yeah isn't this what friends are for? Like, aren't I supposed to be able to talk to my friends and get support from them and you don't bear my soul to my friends? and and And isn't sort of the rise of like,
00:18:01
Speaker
the need for a therapist reflective of, um you know, me not having enough friends. And and this is a straw man argument because ah i of course, don't believe that. Like a therapist is someone who's who's an expert, right? Who like has put time and effort into understanding this stuff.
00:18:13
Speaker
And I think it's kind of the same for what you're doing here, right? With like heartbreak and you you've been through this, you've looked at it, you've thought about it, you've developed these tools to help other people. Right. And I've been in therapy and it wasn't enough. And I talked to my friends and it wasn't enough.
00:18:27
Speaker
yeah To be honest, what I realized more than anything else is talking to your friends. I'm going to be so for real with you. Like friends are the most well-meaning, disastrous advice givers ever.
00:18:40
Speaker
Like I truly, my friends' advice, some of it was so bad and I know they meant well, but like yeah I, you know, trusting people. Here's the thing is everyone speaks to you unless you're they're an expert in the field, right?
00:18:55
Speaker
if you're just talking to like the casual lay person, like they will tell you they will give you advice based on their own limited worldview and their own limited life experiences.
00:19:06
Speaker
And so why would I talk to somebody about like, you know, how to get over a heartbreak that might've gone through an incredibly different heartbreak than the one that I went through. Right. Yeah. um And so that's why I think it really takes an expert, you know, someone's,
00:19:22
Speaker
that has not only been through heartbreak themselves, but that has talked to and worked with people going through all sorts of different heartbreaks to be able to like advise on, okay, no, these are things that actually work, but I'm also going to tailor this specifically to you because you're experiencing these things.
00:19:38
Speaker
Whereas I wouldn't tailor this. I wouldn't give that same advice to this client. But friends, you know, just uneducated, you know, non-experts, they're just going to tell you what they might have experienced. And you're like, well, shit, i'm that's not working for me. So there must be something wrong with me. Right.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah. That's sort of my my i thought on that. I often kind of worry about that in in doing in in doing this like passion project podcast. Like i'm I'm often like, okay, is this advice that I would really give someone because I think it's true? Or is this advice that I want to be true because I'm kind of like repackaging my own trauma and like hoping it's true? know what mean?
00:20:12
Speaker
And I think friends do that a lot, right? And you're right. It's both. No, I was going to say you're self-aware enough that you even said that. Yeah. That's already like a green flag to me that that's probably not what's happening here.
00:20:25
Speaker
You're very kind. ah But I really i really want to kind of double click on the point that you made, basically that like this stuff is hard to learn, right? like In matters of relationships, a lot of people into...
00:20:37
Speaker
get get into one, two, three, four relationships ever. And and that's like that's not a lot of data points, right? That's not a lot of like, I think even for one person, i think that a lifetime of relationships is kind of figuring out, I would say, I would argue that my lifetime of relationships has been like figuring out how I work, right? And it's been a very limited, and that's important. It's important for me to know how I work because I'm me, but like I've only had you know so many relationships and so there's only so much I can learn because without sort of going to other people and asking them and interviewing them and
00:21:08
Speaker
getting their perspective. um Yeah, it's it's a relationships, I mean, I just to kind of drive this home. like It's something that I think it's so easy to develop superstitions about because the hard information is so it's so hard hard won.
00:21:25
Speaker
you know You have to get out there, be vulnerable, get into the relationship, probably get hurt, that sucks. And then like you know recover from that before you're ready to to do it again. And you're only kind of learning kind of what little you can. So along the way, and i think it just, i mean, I guess I'm just saying it makes perfect sense that like, this is something about which we develop wild superstitions about like, yeah never date this kind of person, do this, don't do that.
00:21:49
Speaker
And it can be hard to, and so I, which is just to say, I love that you're sitting down and really giving it time and effort to hear those stories and kind of, it sounds to me like what you're doing is kind of aggregating a lot of other people's experiences and your own and figuring out what's useful, which I love. That's so cool.
00:22:07
Speaker
Thank you. Okay. Can I get back to that pin about matching with the right people? Yeah. but Honestly, this, this might be the rest of the podcast. So hang on. Okay. Let's talk about that. Like how do you, um, whether on a dating app, um, and so much of dating now is dating apps, right? Let's be real.
00:22:23
Speaker
Um, or, or in real life, how do you how would you advise someone to ensure that they're matching with the right people? Or like, what do you see people do? And I can talk about this too, because like, I think there are, I've experienced so many people out there who are just kind of like, but you know, on the apps are just swiping on everyone.
00:22:43
Speaker
Like people who who are like trying to match with me, who it's like, did you even read what I wrote? Because it's so clear that we're not, that we're just like from different, we're we're just not compatible for like really obvious reasons.
00:22:55
Speaker
And maybe that's me being judgmental. And this person is really looking for like a gym rat who loves Dungeons and Dragons. But like, you know, a lot of times I'm just, I just look at these and I'm like, how, how, but so anyway, how do you, how do you match with the right people?
00:23:11
Speaker
No, that's actually really interesting you say that because I had this theory that it's just men that swipe on all of these people, whereas women are actually go through and like, I mean, I can speak for myself when I was on the ops and, and and you know, my female clients and friends, it's all just kind of like they they swipe right very infrequently.
00:23:33
Speaker
So that's interesting you say that. She probably did want to date you. I think you're right. I think you're right about the rates, but we'll go back to that. Yeah. Yeah. So, um okay. Matching with the right people. So I always encourage my clients. I mean, I make them. If they're going to be on the app, their profile has to be signed off on by me. And it is always thoughtful because the thing that I see so commonly is these profiles where I'm like, this person put zero thought into it.
00:24:06
Speaker
They put up a few pictures, sometimes the pictures are even from the same photo shoot, right? They're barely different. um They wrote next to nothing. They're, you know, their prompts are like one word answers that taught me nothing.
00:24:19
Speaker
So the one I hate the most is what to order what I order for the table. I'm like, I learned nothing about you and everyone answers French fries. I'm like, okay, well that's like the most basic response, right?
00:24:31
Speaker
So. Group therapy. No, no, literally. I'm like, you yeah, you you need therapy. Oh, well, no, I mean that's what I wrote for the table. and Anyway, sorry. Terrible joke. Oh, that's funny. That's funny. I like that. I see. I would laugh about that one.
00:24:43
Speaker
um But yeah, it's, um it's, it's interesting to me how many people put no effort into their profiles. And that if you think about it, that tells you everything you need to know about that person.
00:24:55
Speaker
They do not put effort into dating period. They're not taking it seriously. So when I have clients match with someone like that, I'm like, why are you matching someone with live with someone like that? Unless you're looking for something casual and no strings, which you're not coming to me for that, right? You're not hiring someone like me. You're just going out into the, into the marketplace and doing your thing.
00:25:17
Speaker
If you're hiring someone like me, it's because you want to find a good match for you yeah and you want someone that's intentionally dating. And if they're just, they they put no effort into their profile, they're not intentional with it.
00:25:29
Speaker
Can you, okay. There's so much in there. I love that. yeah Do you, do you see that with both men and women? Do you see people putting like very, very low effort? Yeah. I mean, less frequent with men, with women, but there certainly are women that do that too.
00:25:42
Speaker
That, you know, you can kind of tell they're not very serious. Yeah, I think so. So I also think sometimes, and you know, so much of dating is like, and especially dating apps is like guessing the mindset of a stranger who like, you know, absolutely nothing about, right? So so much of this is like, I think so. i I don't say worry, but like I think sometimes the reason that I see low effort profiles or the reason that I hear about fellow men with like almost zero effort profiles is as a kind of fear. you know
00:26:13
Speaker
i think there's something, even in 2025, I think there's still something about like like the internet that is scary, like putting yourself out there that can feel they can feel vulnerable. you know um And I think maybe for some men and maybe for some women, I mean, I don't know, what do you think? But I think for some men and maybe some women,
00:26:31
Speaker
Like there's something like they don't want to they don't want to feel desperate. There's something still about the dating apps that feels like, oh, if I'm putting my picture on the internet saying, please date me, that feels like I've somehow failed or I'm somehow um not enough in some way, which is bananas because everyone uses the apps for dating now.
00:26:51
Speaker
I don't know. Do you think that's still a thing that might be a product of my old age? Yeah, I don't, I'm not sure about that. okay I don't know if that's exactly the consensus I've gotten. But I do think that you might have a point about like, you know, people not wanting to be vulnerable, because then it's sort of like, I actually, okay, I really think that it is a way for people to like pre reject themselves, if that makes sense.
00:27:16
Speaker
So for example, a guy that puts no effort into his profile, and then doesn't get that many matches, he's like, Oh, well, I didn't really try. I put up a couple random pictures. He can tell himself that, whereas if he went to a ton of effort and made a great profile and didn't get matches, then that's like actually personal, right? And that's something that he's going to internalize as like, oh, maybe I'm just not good enough.
00:27:39
Speaker
It hurts more if you like actually try and yeah get that. And which like you know and we can get back to the swiping percentage numbers, right? like i think I think it's true that a lot of men um just don't get that many matches. you know it's it's it can be And that also gets back to that whole thing where it's like,
00:27:57
Speaker
uh, how much data you can get. Right. I think a lot of men kind of flounder around on the dating apps for a while, because it's really hard for you. If you're just kind of like using the apps and trying to learn from your experience, it's hard to have enough experiences on the app where you're really learning how you're supposed to do it because they can be sort of infrequent.
00:28:13
Speaker
Um, interesting um
00:28:19
Speaker
yeah, anyway. Okay. we can talk about that forever. Um, so, okay. In terms of, okay. i want I want you to criticize my the advice that I would give, unsolicited advice that I would offer to women on the dating apps. Okay. Pressure test this. if I'm wrong.
00:28:34
Speaker
ah Okay. When I talk to women in their dating experience and and look at their dating apps, the thing that I usually want women to do in a dating app is to weed out as many...
00:28:46
Speaker
as many as possible to weed out the men who aren't for you. Weed out the men who are just going to swipe on you because they're swiping on anything. And want you to put so put stuff in your profile.
00:28:58
Speaker
That means that you have to deal with as little as little as little hay as possible so you can get to that needle. Because I feel like women are looking for a needle in a haystack on the dating apps. And so I always say like, you know, put, put the pictures in there where, um, it's, it's not just like your best angles and it's not just that, you know, you looking amazing because not all, but most women have a lot more pictures of themselves than men do men. Like we never turn our cameras on ourselves, but women like have a lot of pictures to pick from, you know?
00:29:27
Speaker
yeah Um, and I, yeah, I always say like, you know, make sure you've got something that, that kind of is a little, you know, looks the way that you're going to look when you, when you show up for that first date, you know? Couldn't agree more.
00:29:38
Speaker
and And in the profile, like say the stuff that that I think, say the stuff that you are kind of afraid to reveal about yourself on that second or third date but you that you think like, oh, this this guy isn't going to like me because I'm super into Harry Potter. No, guy he's going to love Harry Potter. But you know so that kind of stuff. The stuff that like you think, the stuff that I think you're afraid, the stuff that you the stuff that you would really feel lucky about.
00:30:05
Speaker
the stuff where you'd really feel lucky if you met somebody who was into that thing, I think put that stuff front and center. Um, because just, and I think a lot of folks just kind of don't understand, don't realize kind of the raw numbers.
00:30:18
Speaker
Um, there's like a lot of people and you kind of want to filter out the folks that aren't for you. So you can kind of find your way to the folks who are for you. Um, so yeah, my advice women on dating apps is like be as picky as possible.
00:30:31
Speaker
Um, uh, um, when you're making your profile ah like don't don't When you're making your profile, don't try to attract everyone. right i think i think Let me put it this way. I think society puts so much pressure on women.
00:30:43
Speaker
And I think Instagram and TikTok have poured gas on this fire. But we put so much pressure on people, and I think especially women, to be as appealing to as many people as possible.
00:30:55
Speaker
Right? Mm-hmm. Like if you're on Instagram or on TikTok, you want to get followers or if you want to get followers, you've got to find a way to appeal to as many people as possible. You've got to find a way to have the algorithm like you. And if people want to go like, um I'm making a thumb clicking motion, but like tap their thumb on you. Right.
00:31:10
Speaker
And on the dating apps, I think, you want the exact opposite. You want, you want that one person or you know, that you want those few people who are going to be maybe a compatible match for you to find you.
00:31:22
Speaker
And I think for men, that's hard because you have to swipe through a lot of, have to shoot a lot of shots to try and like, you meet that person. And we can talk about the the ratio if we want to.
00:31:33
Speaker
And for women, it's hard because, man, you just got to filter through a lot of inbound attention before you get to somebody who might be that match. I don't know. what do you think I think you've brought up some great points and I want to start out with, okay, so your point about trying to be more intentional and having fewer matches, I think is actually sort of where the work is because, you know, there's no denying that some people go on the apps for an ego trip, right?
00:32:02
Speaker
Sure. And even women that want something serious want to feel like there are enough men that like them back a because then you do get, I mean, so many people on the apps, and this is a large part about why I'm not currently on them, but you know, I support other people being on them, but um you get so many people that just disengage, right? Whether they ghost, whether they just sort of become unresponsive. And so I think I can understand why women might want to have more matches to sort of up their odds, but at the same time,
00:32:40
Speaker
There is such a thing as dating fatigue and it's real. And so if you are matching with people that are not for you and going out with them or even conversing with them, you are depleting your battery for the people that are right for you.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I've done this in the past. I mean, years ago when I was dating for sure, um I've seen friends do this, you know, where they're going out with a guy and they're like, I'm pretty sure this is not going to work. And, you know, they're obviously not that excited.
00:33:09
Speaker
but they're sort of like, well, I guess I should anyway, you never know. And so I always encourage my clients, you know, exactly what you said, to be super, super particular.
00:33:21
Speaker
Say things that you think are going to turn some guys away. Good. Say things that might scare the guys that are not serious. You know, say something in there that you're looking for a serious relationship. um I totally agree with your point too about the pictures.
00:33:37
Speaker
The biggest compliments I've gotten on my own profile is every single guy I've ever gone out with, wow, you are so much more beautiful in person. That is exactly, exactly how you want to do it.
00:33:50
Speaker
If you have all these AI, like whatever, Photoshopped, Facetune pictures on your profile and meet up with someone in person and you don't look like your picture, that's going to be an issue, right? And that's that's not fair for anyone. I mean, i I've experienced that too from men on on my side and I've had clients experience that too.
00:34:07
Speaker
um yeah wow specifically with like the hype thing with men. they They lie about that a lot. but But also sometimes they're appearing. But I totally agree because you want the person to be excited about you as you are, exactly as you're going to look on that date, exactly with the same interests and things.
00:34:25
Speaker
Otherwise, you're putting up this front and you're investing all this time only to later get rejected because you weren't forthcoming about who you are. Yeah. and I will say that's true about you. i haven't seen your dating app profile, but I've seen you on on Instagram and and you're very attractive woman, both on Instagram, but in person.
00:34:43
Speaker
But I will say, i think I think that's right. Like I think a lot of guys, I think many men, i don't know that we would say this or maybe we would, I don't know. But i think I think one of the biggest disappointment, not disappointments, but biggest like...
00:34:57
Speaker
hurdles in dating is is when you when you meet somebody and they they don't they kind of don't look like what you thought they were going to look like. And look, a 2D picture is never going to capture what a human looks like, that kind of thing.
00:35:09
Speaker
and and i don't think And I don't think it's like catfishing. I don't like i don't even think it's like catfish, diet catfishing. you know i think it's just like I think, well, I think, I've heard somebody call it kitten fishing.
00:35:20
Speaker
i think we that's funny I think we socialize us, all of us to look pretty on the internet. And I think that pressure is so much heavier for women, right? I think yeah your appearance is such a huge deal for women and, and, and it's the year 2025 and third wave feminism and yada, yadda yada, yada.
00:35:37
Speaker
But I think it's just still true that like, there is a massive societal message to women that like, the more attractive you are, the more valuable you are, right? And men get that sort of, we do, there are unhealthy male body standards, yada, yada, yada, but like, it's just so much worse for women. So, which is all just to say, i think any woman who's alive today with a phone in her hand, you know, has learned in some, in in ways big and little, how to how to appear attractive on the internet.
00:36:05
Speaker
Like just being on being pictures on the internet is such a, such a part of life. So like, yeah, I, I mean, for anyone dating, my advice for men would be like, just expect that she's going to look a little different from her, from her pictures.
00:36:18
Speaker
And it's not because she's trying to lie to you. It's not because she's like trying to pull one over on you. She's just like trying to put her best foot forward and she's got 10,000 pictures. Um, um I don't know. That's just part of it. you know And for men, it's just like, yeah all of our pictures are bad. you know It's like a selfie. Yeah, it's true. The obligatory fish pic, that kind of thing. Oh, God.
00:36:39
Speaker
And we're just yeah we're just not that good at it. you know I don't know. Yeah, no, it'ss that's an interesting take. um I think I'm just in that age, just in that generation where, like I mean, we don't really like Photoshop photos.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah. I think that happened like just a little bit younger than me, but you know, you're right. It's like, I wouldn't, when I post all my reels and everything, like I make a commitment to myself. I don't edit anything.
00:37:08
Speaker
I show up as I am um because I want to normalize what like natural beauty looks like, you know, you have, but you do see everywhere people. I mean, I wouldn't even know how to use those technologies, but like, you know,
00:37:25
Speaker
making trying to make themselves appear thinner and, you know, that and the other. And I mean, it's happening in real life, too, with people getting all sorts of implants and weird things going on. So um it's it's a massive movement. But, you know, I do think I do think just showing up as your authentic self, because.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's more than. wouldn't say that it's coming from a place of. you know, anyone wanting to catfish, but it's more, I don't trust a person that has put themselves out there as so drastically different than who they actually are.
00:38:04
Speaker
So for example, with men with the height thing, if a man lies about his height, I ah i automatically don't trust him. I think that he's not a trustworthy person because he's lied already. So what's gonna stop him from lying in the future?
00:38:18
Speaker
And so it kind of feels the same with like, you know, I just want everyone to show up genuinely as who they really are whether that be photos, whether that be like their specific weird quirks and interests, whether that's, you know, what their career actually is.
00:38:33
Speaker
um I think the more people can be genuine, the more we're going to wait, the less we're going to waste time because then it's sort of like people are trying to get through all these layers of, oh, well, they said that, but it's actually this.
00:38:48
Speaker
And it really breaks down the trust. yeah Yeah, I agree. I think for, um, for men, when we're dating straight men, um, sometimes it's age, sometimes you'll, up you'll match with woman and she'll let you know, you know, pretty early on that her age isn't actually what it was on the, on the app. And, and, and, you know, there's a, there's a ton of pressure. There's a ton of pressure for men to be tall. There's a ton of pressure for women to be young. Right.
00:39:13
Speaker
I don't think those are directly. Me too though. Um, with men on the apps and with clients, um, where they, there's a man and he's like, oh, my age says I'm like 42, but I'm actually 47. And you're like, well, just put 47, you know, like what's, cause, cause then as soon as I hear that, I'm like, okay, well now I immediately, I'm not going out with you. Cause I think that's sketchy. You know, you're trying to, to lie a little bit.
00:39:39
Speaker
So what else are you going to lie about in life? Yeah. I mean, I guess the lens I would see that through is like that that first connection, that first impression, that those first moments when you're trying to meet another human being, i think that connection can be so fragile, you know, that even a little, even a little deception, i think can really, i don't know, I think it's just a human thing that you just kind of like it puts your guard up, you know, it makes you, puts those shields up and it's hard to be vulnerable when those, when those are up, you know?
00:40:08
Speaker
Totally. Um, okay. Okay. As, as I promised, we're get, we're nowhere near the outline for this talk and that is a okay. Um, can, okay. Can we talk about you? So you're not on the apps right now as we're talking about the apps and I, so I think, okay.
00:40:24
Speaker
Rebecca Traster is an amazing author, wrote this book called all the single ladies. And she talks about why a lot of amazing, this is ah such a gross word, but like eligible women, you're, you're an attractive young woman.
00:40:36
Speaker
Um, uh, successful professionally, you do all this kind of cool stuff. There are, um um I'm not trying to say this is typical, but like i I've bumped into a number of women who I'm like, man, there are men out there who who are just like crawling all over each other, try to trying to date a woman like you.
00:40:55
Speaker
And yeah you're like, you know what? Pass. I'm going to take a breather for a while. So i think I think this is, well, my audience, I try to make my audience mostly for men. I want to extend, I want to have conversations that are beneficial for men who are grappling with this stuff. And I think I don't know. I would just still give you the microphone and and let you run with it because I think anyone listening to this would be like, why is she not, why is she not dating?
00:41:17
Speaker
Why am I not dating? you know So I want to first start off by saying that just because I'm not on the app doesn't mean I'm not dating. yeah I definitely still am dating. um I think the apps got to a place for me where it was no longer healthy because I i was just not having very good experiences.
00:41:39
Speaker
um But I think I've mentioned to you before, I have had two serious relationships from the apps. So they work. They absolutely work. um
00:41:51
Speaker
I think my reason for taking a pause is just I found and and again, this is a change from the last time I was on the apps, which I met my ex-boyfriend on the apps in 2022.
00:42:03
Speaker
And at that point in time, it was people were not quite so flaky. I think it's gotten to a level of flakiness that is frankly unprecedented.
00:42:17
Speaker
And as a lawyer and someone that's mindful of my time, I just kind of lost my tolerance for it. I think it's really different when you meet someone in person, you have that initial like, you know, face to face, you decide that you like each other in person after spending time in each other's company,
00:42:37
Speaker
you know, feeling out the vibes, which you can't really feel out a vibe over an app. right And at that point, I think also that the ghosting rate or, you know, the rate at which you don't hear back from someone once you've established an in-person connection is so slim, at least in my experience, because it's like, okay, we have now intentionally met, we've talked about things that we would have talked about on the first date.
00:43:02
Speaker
You know, I feel that I have gotten to know you a little bit and I am now interested in continuing to get to know you. So for me, it's really just kind of I don't view this as permanent. I mean, unless I i meet my husband in this interim, but I needed a bit of a refresh to reconnect with how rewarding dating can be when you're not getting this lack of responsiveness.
00:43:26
Speaker
yeah So I do think, unfortunately, and it's nobody's fault because I have heard men say this to you know clients who are like, I just had this woman stop responding to me. I thought things were going so well.
00:43:38
Speaker
So it's ah it's it's on both sides. So it's certainly not um anyone's fault for it happening. I think it's just the nature of meeting someone on an app that you have never established in-person connection with.
00:43:52
Speaker
You sort of have people sort of tend to have lack of regard for that person's emotions because they've never like seen them face to face. They've never met them. Right. And so it's normal that, that you get more lack of responsiveness. You know, you have people coming on and off the apps all the time. Like maybe that person got into a relationship with someone that they'd met, you know, a month before you. And so that's why they're not responding anymore. You just never know what's going on on the other side of the phone. But,
00:44:20
Speaker
I do think it can be demoralizing and frustrating. And so i think that is a big explanation for why people are leading the apps in high numbers. um But, you know, it's not everyone and the apps certainly serve their purpose. I mean, I know probably more couples that have gotten together in the last few years from the apps than from real life. So.
00:44:45
Speaker
So they're there're still a powerful tool. And, you know, I absolutely am an expert on them, having met two two boyfriends on them and having been on them a lot myself. So I'm always happy to help my clients with them.
00:44:57
Speaker
It's just, you know, for me personally, right now, it just wasn't a it wasn't a great environment. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, then then I kind of had this wrong a little bit, but but i I want to get your kind of take on that kind of Rebecca Traister trend.
00:45:11
Speaker
Because like there are people who are sort of looking at the dating markets and they do polling on this kind of stuff and all that kind of thing. And um ah young women, especially women in their from like 20 to 30, which I'm not trying to like guess your age here, but like you're a young woman.
00:45:25
Speaker
um I'm actually not in that bracket, but thank you. Okay. Yeah. Women, ah or early twenties, early thirties. Yeah. that Yeah. That range.
00:45:36
Speaker
um Many women are just deprioritizing dating. They're just focusing on career, friends, family, travel. um They're just not. um and And I think, and and I think the argument is like,
00:45:50
Speaker
ah for those women, a lot of, like a relationship isn't really a value proposition. And not to make it, like, very, like, economic sounding or whatever, but, like, basically, yeah it's not making her life better for for a lot of women in that age to, to in that age range to to get into a relationship. Because a lot of times, and not to kind of, like, beat up men too much here, but, like,
00:46:12
Speaker
you know, a lot of times it's it's a lot of work. It's a very vulnerable. um And getting into a relationship often means that you're doing more work. Like sometimes you're you're expected to do more domestic labor. You you might end up yeah doing more emotional labor, that kind of thing.
00:46:26
Speaker
um And I don't know, I guess I wanted to get your, I feel like my take on that is pretty, pretty crude. So I guess I wanted to know if you had more, more detail, there are more thoughts on that trend. Sure. Absolutely. Um, that's common. And, uh, that's certainly part of what, of my decision to sort of, you know, I, it's not that I'm not dating, but yes, I'm, I'm, I'm being super selective of who I will even go out with because you're right.
00:46:54
Speaker
It's, um, and, and I think a lot of women have experienced this, um, myself included, which is, uh, you know, being with a man who um does not share the same emotional intelligence as a woman.
00:47:12
Speaker
um And I think that's where there's a big gap and where work can be done. So for, you know, any of your male listeners, this is not to disparage anybody. I insist this is really what society has taught men from the beginning of time, that they need to hold back their emotions, not feel them.
00:47:31
Speaker
And so if a man has never been taught how to experience his own emotions, how on earth is he going to express to a woman what he might be feeling, right? If he's not even allowing himself to feel those to begin with, and she's asking, you know, what's the matter? Let's talk about it. Or she wants to express something that she's feeling that he's done.
00:47:53
Speaker
but he just lacks that emotional intelligence on his end to be able to provide her the emotional support that she needs and even himself to be able to help himself and to express himself to her so that she can provide the support that he might need.
00:48:08
Speaker
So I think that there's this big gap and I've you know talked to a lot of women about this where you know we've we've all sort of been through a relationship or two like that. um So I think that's a big part of it.
00:48:22
Speaker
ah You know, the emotional labor, as you mentioned, the men that, thank God, can experience their their emotions, which there's certainly plenty of them, you know, some of them are only unloading their emotions to their female partner and not to, for example, a therapist or their friends. And so it is a lot of work for that one woman who is really the only outlet for that man.
00:48:45
Speaker
um So, you know, I really hope that we do start turning a corner where men feel comfortable confiding and in their friends and and talking about their emotions. But, you know, therapy, like I know back in the day, men didn't go. i think increasingly they're starting to go, which I think is awesome.
00:49:02
Speaker
So I absolutely encourage that. I think that's really sort of the gateway to starting to understand your own emotional landscape and give you the tools and resources to do that. But Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. I do think that, you know, in situations where you're living together or married or or whatever, that women have felt that they are doing more of the domestic labor than men. And so to your point, sure, when you have two people, you know, one one woman is we're used to taking care of herself already, but then she's also having to sort of look after another person.
00:49:37
Speaker
And, you know, they're both working full time and they have the same responsibilities outside of the house. And so it can be the situation where women then end up getting even more responsibilities than they had before um by being with a man.
00:49:52
Speaker
um And, you know, again, that's just that societal conditioning. That's, you know, looking at generations past where the women, for the most part, did stay at home. They did all of that labor, but they didn't have a job outside of the house. So that was their labor. And so I don't think that we've readjusted as a society our thinking surrounding a two adult, you know, two income household where two people are going out and working.
00:50:19
Speaker
And so they should be coming home and sharing the labor equitably as well. Yeah. That makes lot sense. That's one of my take on the dating landscape right now. And the two areas where I think men could really focus their attention.
00:50:33
Speaker
If, if they want to, if they want to be yeah a really suitable candidate for women, you know, for the modern woman that's, burden with work and with responsibilities and and and wanting someone, wanting of a true partner that can understand her complex emotions and be able to talk about them.
00:50:53
Speaker
Yeah. and And I would say you know to to experience a genuine, awesome, fulfilling connection, right? I think, and this might be me projecting, but I do think we all just kind of want to like feel seen and to see someone.
00:51:06
Speaker
And I think that, yeah. yeah um But okay, hang on. ah that That is kind of getting into kind of what I want to wrap up with, which is kind of talking about personal advice versus like societal change.
00:51:18
Speaker
um But that's a big one. So I want to wrap with that. i would be i would be a terrible podcast host if I talked about you going viral for getting ghosted and I didn't let you tell that story. So can you tell the story about how you went viral for getting ghosted? Yeah.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah. um So, I mean... The story itself, like the the ah TikTok, you know, it's it's on Instagram too. it it It was just kind of the circumstances surrounding it, I think, were what sort of got a big discourse going. And there was kind of a fight going on on TikTok between people that thought I got ghosted and people that didn't think I got ghosted.
00:51:56
Speaker
i thought that was actually quite fascinating as just a societal experiment to see, like, why is this? There's this huge divide, you know? But the story essentially is I met a guy on a dating app. We had a really good first date.
00:52:11
Speaker
So I thought um he seemed interested too. you know I heard from him the next day, we we were texting that week and we planned to have a date that that following Sunday.
00:52:23
Speaker
and And I sort of was unclear on like what time, I was attending a concert and I sort of was like, I'd love to see you afterwards. I would imagine that the concert is about this long and it's in Santa Monica.
00:52:36
Speaker
So I gave him those details, but we never had you know, we we'd said we were definitely going to see each other, but we hadn't firmed up yet the time and the place.
00:52:47
Speaker
Right. So it's Saturday. We've discussed all of those details. And then Sunday, I'm sort of expecting him because I had sent the last text, you know, with sort of like, OK, yeah, it it'll be around this long at this location.
00:53:00
Speaker
So I was waiting for the follow up of, OK, let's, you know, meet at this time in this place. Which didn't come. And so it's around noon or one o'clock and I'm like, you know, are we still on for tonight?
00:53:14
Speaker
um And I hear nothing. So part of the internet is saying you didn't get ghosted because you didn't have real plans, which I think is beside the point.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah. Like ghosting is the act of stopping responding to somebody. Right. Yeah. So we had made plans to go out and then he goes dark.
00:53:38
Speaker
So sure, maybe the plans weren't firm, but we had determined that we were going to see each other on Sunday evening. And then he just dropped off the face of the universe. But I think it went super viral because people were really like infighting over like, was it ghosting? Was it not ghosting? I mean, there were some people that were like, he owed you nothing. and And I'm like, okay, we'd been on a date. We'd hung out in person and yeah determined that we were going to see each other again.
00:54:04
Speaker
so you know, I think that, It's just sort of the human decency element on the on the internet really can be lacking. Like with these people that you meet online that then you know just don't have the common decency to be like, you know what? like Whatever it is, even if he's all of a sudden not interested, that's fine. Just let me know. Yeah.
00:54:24
Speaker
So that was sort of an interesting thought. You send that text. It's like something, something, something, something. Wish you all the best. You know, exactly. That's the title of the podcast. That's the title. Wish you all the best.
00:54:35
Speaker
I, so I of course think that that he, he was in the wrong there. Um, but you're right. You know, like the human decency thing. What do you think? Like, so, uh, Something that I think is happening there, and i you know i' this is not a hot take, right? But like it's it's having so many options or feeling like you have so many options on the dating apps, right? I think it just sort of like, it does make it, I want to say, i think it makes it challenging to to be decent to ah to everyone you connect to on the dating apps.
00:55:07
Speaker
And it's not to say like, oh, I've got so many people interested in me. I just think that like even who has, who who has who's met, who's connected with anyone on a dating app will have the situation where you've got kind of two people or you've got, you have some, you know, he met you and then just like got overwhelmed and decided to like delete the apps.
00:55:29
Speaker
I think often, often it's the case that women just get, the women that I've talked to about the apps just get overwhelmed and shut it all down. it's like, I i do not have the emotional bandwidth to respond to all this stuff. yeah But like,
00:55:40
Speaker
I think for me, and this will segue into like the societal versus the personal advice or the societal work. Like, I think the advice that I might give anyone, especially any man is like, you know, your ability to treat a stranger from the internet with decency goes so far to speak to your character as a person. yeah And it's not easy, right? Like having character, yeah i'm and I'm not trying to be an elitist here anything, but like having character takes work.
00:56:09
Speaker
Like it's not easy. it's This is not an app that's like DoorDash that you're going to tap some stuff and the thing that's going to appear at your door, right? wish, that'd be nice. I mean, I think that's what everybody wishes, right? Everyone thinks that, you know, the first time you download a dating app, there's that hope that's like, oh, I'm going to match with somebody and they're going to be the one and we're going to be. Oh my God. And you know what? That's what happened with my ex.
00:56:29
Speaker
He literally downloaded Hinge for the first time. i was the first girl that came across, like, we can talk about this another time because that that was divinely orchestrated for sure. There's no other way. Yeah. But yeah, I was the first match, first date.
00:56:41
Speaker
immediately fell in love. Like, come on. one and done Whereas i was in the trenches on hinge for years, just like, fuck my life. Yeah. Okay, yeah let's put a big old pin in that because let's let's do let's do this again because we can definitely talk about that.
00:56:57
Speaker
um And like the different kinds of people you meet you know because sometimes the people you meet in the dating apps are like the people who haven't done it very much. And you kind of tell that like they haven't they haven't like been in the trenches very long. And then you sort of meet the people who it's like youve they've got like that thousand yard stare you know.
00:57:11
Speaker
Like you know you've both been doing this way too long. Yeah. You're like that poor person. They are fighting for their lives to stay on this app right now. Yeah. And oftentimes those are the, those are the women when I'm dating, those are them that I can like sort of relate to better because like, we know, like we've been through it and we know we have that in common.
00:57:29
Speaker
Um, But okay, so the big kind of like galaxy brain concept that I kind of want to wrap up here. I'm interested to hear hear your thoughts on this. um So we're talking sort of about advice, about about like culture around dating, how things go, how things are, that kind of thing.
00:57:45
Speaker
i often sort of think about... but whether it's just talking to somebody ah person to person or like in the discourse of dating online, like i think there's kind of two categories of advice, right?
00:57:57
Speaker
I think there's advice where it's like, or I think advice can be categorized this way. There's some that's like, we need to change this about society. There's like and people flake too much or or people don't respect people enough or people have have too many options. Like the big picture stuff where it's like, there are these big societal things. And like, generally speaking, you should be aware of this because as you go out into the dating world, you are likely to encounter this sooner or later, probably sooner.
00:58:24
Speaker
And those things I often think like, it's good to understand that they're there, but like, I don't know, I feel i feel sort of quixotic. I feel like I could never scream into this microphone loud enough to like change like some of those big things about modern dating, right?
00:58:41
Speaker
And then the the other category is kind of like things that I would tell someone, a man or a woman, like, hey, you should know that... do Doing this, this, or this will improve your experience or improve your odds. like This is something that you as you as an individual can do.
00:58:58
Speaker
And in that case, right I would say like you should know that You know, treating people well goes a long way to demonstrate, ah ah even to treating strangers on the internet well goes a long way to demonstrate your character.
00:59:11
Speaker
And I would say in my experience, there are times when, um you know, i've I've told someone something like, well, I don't know. I don't know if it's actually ever led to something.
00:59:23
Speaker
I've definitely felt better. I've definitely gotten like positive feedback where I'm like, Hey, i just need to let you know, i had a great time. You're an awesome person, um but I don't think it's a match. I just wanted to let you know and not like leave you in the lurch or telling someone like, Hey, we haven't met yet. You do seem really amazing. I know we've been trying to put time on the calendar.
00:59:41
Speaker
ah just want to let you know that I started dating somebody recently and I want to see where that goes. And I'm kind of a one guy, one gal kind of guy. and so I'm going to do that. And I wish you all the best. yeah And I don't think I don't know if that's ever like led to Anything like there's no like like ma material. There's no like you know that never led to a relationship um But I will say it like give me feel better. I don't know anyway yeah But I guess my the bigger point is that's kind of a rabbit hole Sorry bigger point is you know there's those things about dating that we all go like ah and shake our fists and go like why is it like that? It's not fair it sucks and then I think there are the things where it's like hey and
01:00:17
Speaker
We're all kind of wandering through the forest in the dark trying to help each other find our way. Here's a couple of pointers that you you individual person can like understand to to increase your odds.
01:00:28
Speaker
i don't know. I just want to throw that at you. What do you think about that? And because also, and sorry, but like you've you've also talked about like, you you You and I were talking about think these big cultural changes that we we do. We are in this interesting period where, and I would argue that it's a period where men kind of have a little bit of, i don't want to say catching up to do, but I think men have a little bit of like evolution to do because women generationally have kind of been going through big, big changes and men have kind of,
01:00:56
Speaker
again I'm not trying to beat us up too much here, but we've kind of stagnated a little bit. We kind of haven't adapted so much to these big cultural changes, but like those big cultural changes are, again, it's really hard to just like scream into the microphone loud enough to make this happen.
01:01:10
Speaker
But yeah, I wanted your thoughts on that. So around what people can be doing on an individual level to increase their odds of a good match or or when you Honestly, any of it. Because one of the things I love about you, one of the things i love about you is that you, I don't know, I feel like you have this like,
01:01:29
Speaker
um you just have, and tell me if I'm wrong, but it feels to me like you have this determination that like, there are really things that we could be doing to put into the world ways to change this bigger cultural thing.
01:01:42
Speaker
and i yeah And I think we do need to do that. I think I've sort of resigned to myself that like, I'm just going to survive in this landscape that I've come to understand. But I really love, i really love that part of your approach to this stuff. I love the idea that we can make this change.
01:01:57
Speaker
And the question is, how and honestly I want another podcast with you later where we talk about how because I have no idea um well it starts individuals so okay I would say for anyone listening that's you know struggling to find a good match um the first thing is I mean I really do believe in karma so I think if you are frequently ghosting, if you're treating people poorly, you will get that right back, right? So it's like, oh, shoot, okay, well, I ghosted on that date.
01:02:33
Speaker
And I'm not talking about just like, you know, stopping chatting with someone on the app that you've only been chatting with a little bit back and forth. I don't think that necessitates a response. That might be, you know, like, that's fine.
01:02:44
Speaker
But if you've actually made plans with somebody, you know, and you guys are texting, and like, that's, don't just bail. Be a decent human and say something. It doesn't even have to be the truth. Make up an excuse, but just make sure that they are clear that you don't want to see them and they don't block off time for you, right? And hold out hopes for you.
01:03:07
Speaker
So ideally, I would prefer that people say something honest, you know, just sort of like, hey, I'm not sure I i felt that we were a match, but wish you all the best, you know? um So I do really believe in k karma.
01:03:20
Speaker
um I believe in... focusing your attention on fewer rather than many, as we've already discussed. um And, you know, I think it's really all about doing so much inner work that you fully understand yourself and what you want.
01:03:38
Speaker
So you're not wasting anyone's time that's outside of that box or that, you know um they you know, there's something about you that isn't a fit for them.
01:03:49
Speaker
um I'll give you an example. So, I, you know, as I mentioned, I've still been dating, um but just on on the app. So I met somebody in Aspen that I've been chatting with for, you know, the last two weeks.
01:04:02
Speaker
We were actually supposed to meet up with one another. lives in Dubai. um And he was fully like, you know, about to buy my plane ticket and everything like that. But we've had some chats lately that raised the red flags for me about us being compatible.
01:04:18
Speaker
um specifically he's Muslim and wants to raise children Muslim. And I'm definitely not Muslim. And I'm at this point, I don't really follow organized religion that much anymore. i sort of, you know, do my own thing.
01:04:32
Speaker
So that that's an immediate sort of, yeah, it was an immediate sort of that doesn't work. And I would never ask him to compromise that. And I don't want to compromise that myself.
01:04:44
Speaker
That's, that's a real, you know, I talked about the two buckets of like, really important non-negotiable versus, you know, nice to have. Like, I do not want to raise my children ah certain religion, specifically not one that I don't follow.
01:04:59
Speaker
So i let them know. I let them know. I said, hey, I don't think it's a smart use of our time. You know, I wouldn't want us to yeah I wouldn't want you to go to the expense and me to go to the time of doing this if we already have identified that we're incompatible.
01:05:15
Speaker
yeah So I think the way people can make a difference in the dating field and give each other less burnout is to just be so much more honest and realistic about exactly who they are, what they're up to, what they're looking for.
01:05:30
Speaker
and if we all did that, imagine how many fewer dates we would all be going on and we would be able to spend that time more effectively on the exact people that are a match.
01:05:40
Speaker
And I'm not saying like, Oh, that person has like brown hair and I wanted a blonde. That's not at all what I mean. Like i'm talking the big stuff, religion, politics, lifestyle, you know, like things that really matter to people and could be a make or break. I'm not talking about like, Oh, that person's a vegan and I'm not like that.
01:05:59
Speaker
That's probably not going to ruin your life. Right. So um i think i think um some more intentionality could be a real tide change and you know for for the men and women i i have honestly there are plenty of clients female clients that i've started to work with that like think that they have emotional intelligence and quite frankly lack it so it's not all on men um i think we all could be doing a lot more introspection and working with our own emotions and understanding like what are my triggers what um
01:06:31
Speaker
What do I need to feel safe with someone? What are some traumas from my past that I should probably get past so that I'm not projecting that into a future relationship? I think doing that deep work, it's not easy. So people don't want to do it.
01:06:45
Speaker
But trust me that on the other side of that is so much more peace and so much more intentionality um and and such a larger reward in terms of the partner that you can bring in once you've sort of tackled your own demons.
01:07:01
Speaker
Yeah. So if, you know, if the story of like, how do we make the personal advice or the personal guidance societal, yeah maybe at least right now, what we're talking about is like, how do we get more people to be excited about doing that inner work?
01:07:20
Speaker
And I don't know. On the other side of it is an amazing woman, like these women that you're like, you know, where, uh, I forget the the name of the book that you mentioned, but, um um, all the single ladies, all the single ladies, you know, it's like the men that want to be dating those single ladies that our eligible bachelorettes, as you said, that are not interested in dating, they can be pulled back into the scene by the right man that has done that inner work, that knows himself well, that can hold space for her emotions and,
01:07:54
Speaker
make her feel like she has a true partner. Because, you know, one other thing I didn't mention in that whole um conversation is women are getting oftentimes better emotional support from their girlfriends than they are from their partner. Right. and And so it's making yourself appealing enough to one of those women so that she feels that there's something to be gained from being with you.
01:08:20
Speaker
And we all want male partnership. We all do. I mean, I deeply desire that. um But it's got to be with somebody that can meet me where I'm at in terms of discussing emotions, both mine and theirs.
01:08:35
Speaker
And so I think that should be a massive motivator. Because right now there aren't enough women for men to date, I don't think I mean, there's not enough that are like willing to be out there in the field right now.
01:08:47
Speaker
so I think to bring some of them back so we can all have good, healthy, happy relationships, I'm hoping that that's enough of an incentive. If men really understand that that's at the core of us wanting to be single, it's just not getting to feel seen and heard and understood.
01:09:02
Speaker
um you know, and I think that, as you mentioned, they they would want that too, if they could really just get in touch with themselves. So hopefully, by hearing me say this, I'm giving at least your listeners the permission to do that.
01:09:15
Speaker
And telling them, you know, to me, I'll scream this from a rooftop, men who express their emotions are sexy. Men who go to therapy are sexy. Men who cry are sexy. Like, i don't like this whole like,
01:09:29
Speaker
macho, never in their feelings attitude. Like, I think emotions are what make a person exceptional. and And having, you know, an understanding of that landscape is is critical. So I think that's awesome.
01:09:45
Speaker
um I mean, listen, I want to, for next time, if we can do this again, I want to put a pin in sort of navigating social media. Like how, if I'm a guy who thinks that am doing that inner work, how do I like make it clear to someone's because the internet is the way that we meet people? How do I make it clear ah so that someone who's looking for that can maybe find me, but um we would be here talking forever. Lainey, Lainey Tucker.
01:10:11
Speaker
Thank you so, so much for being my guest. is there anything else that you wanted to throw out there or anything else on on the top of your mind? No, I just want to encourage anyone that, you know, is interested in and working with me to go check out my website and my socials. and Definitely. And book a call or or message me if if they're interested. So, I mean, I think that we we have so much more to talk about here. So I'm really excited to to get on another call with you.
01:10:37
Speaker
Definitely to to be continued. Lainey, thank you so much. I'll be sure to put all the links to your stuff in the in the show notes the description. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. i know you're heading out of the country for a little bit. Have amazing travels.
01:10:49
Speaker
Thank you. And yeah, i ah um hopefully you can come on again and we can talk some more soon. Yes, I hope.
01:11:03
Speaker
for listening that was my conversation with lanie tucker um and like i said at the top i am really excited um to hopefully have more conversations with lanie i think she's got a lot of really smart ideas about this stuff and she loves talking about it as much as i do if not more um and i think they're they're interesting conversations i hope you agree um Again, to places where you can find Lainey on the internet, I'll put the links in the description.
01:11:30
Speaker
I'm LaineyTucker.co and on Instagram and I'm pretty sure TikTok, LaineyYTucker. um go Go check it out there. if you have any feedback, if you want to reach out, wishyouallthebestpod at gmail.com and you can also find this wishyouallthebestpod on Instagram. I think Lainey's going to help me uh, be, be less bad at Instagram because right now I'm pretty bad at it, but she's very good at it. So, um, maybe, maybe I'll have some better stuff coming soon there.
01:12:03
Speaker
Um, yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Um, as always, uh, um, I hope, I hope you're getting something out of this if you are listening. Um, uh, and yeah, stay tuned.
01:12:14
Speaker
Hopefully I'll have more cool stuff, um, more cool stuff, uh, uh, coming up soon. Awesome. Thanks.