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Jaymes - Rocking and looking for the real thing in Toronto
69 Plays1 year ago
I really enjoyed this chat with Jaymes, it left me feeling really hopeful. Go check out Hot Apollo if you are anywhere near Toronto!
As always you can find me at @wishyouallthebestpod.
music - "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch -https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome back to Wish You All the Best, a personal podcast about modern dating. It's been a minute since an episode.
00:00:24
Speaker
I just haven't had folks to talk to and I've had some other kind of stuff going on. More on that maybe later. This episode, my guest is a young gentleman named James who found me on the internet. There's like this, I've been getting these, well, whatever. James found me on the internet. It was cool.
00:00:49
Speaker
And we just got to talking, and it was cool to have a conversation with someone who was interested in the topic. Everyone's got a different experience, so he got to kind of bring his perspective of his experience to this. And mostly, it was just really encouraging and awesome to just kind of talk with somebody kind of as openly and as vulnerably as we could about modern dating.
00:01:18
Speaker
That's kind of the whole idea behind this pod. And so we just got into it. Yeah, if you're in the Toronto area by chance, he's got a band called Hot Apollo. I am not in Toronto. I haven't seen them. I can only assume they're absolutely awesome. So go see them. You'll hear us talk a little bit about that in the episode.
Impact of Appearance and Personality on Dating
00:01:41
Speaker
But I always like to plug that kind of stuff for my guests. So go check them out.
00:01:47
Speaker
And yeah, without further ado, here's my conversation with James. Enjoy.
00:01:56
Speaker
Okay, awesome. James, thank you for joining me. I wish you all the best. We found each other like on the internet. You were just like, I don't know, something about the pods sounded interesting. And we talked a little bit before. So I don't know, welcome. Thank you for reaching out to a person on the internet who had a podcast about dating and being like, I'm down to talk about it. I really appreciate that. Yeah, no, same. And it starts since we only connected like three hours ago.
00:02:25
Speaker
Distracting them while the iron's hot. Yeah, no, I love that. Okay, so not to age myself too much or be ageist, but it is fair to say that you're a bit younger than I am, and you're a little bit. You're good, though. I've got that California sun. Seriously, 45 is actually surprising.
00:02:48
Speaker
You're very kind. I hear that. I hear that from time to time, but I think you're very kind. Thank you. Um, but yeah, dating is, or I don't know. I would have to guess that dating is, is, is different. I don't know. Can we like compare and contrast or I guess, I guess that doesn't make sense. It might be smart to first just like ask you the broad question. Like what is dating? What has dating been like for you? Who are you and like, what's dating been like for you? And let me just give you the mic.
00:03:14
Speaker
So, I mean, I've got to say, I can't, I don't know if like my dating experience is that of my generation, because in so many ways I am like a weird one, you know? So I don't think I can ever be relied on to be representative of any demographic I fall into. And I think dating would certainly be subject to that caveat.
Challenges of Dating as a Neurodivergent Individual
00:03:38
Speaker
But also, I don't know, I've talked to like older people too, like I've talked to my parents even about this.
00:03:44
Speaker
And I don't think it's like that much different broadly, but I mean, I think there are things like, all right, like, even when you, like, there were definitely a few things that would dissuade some people from dating me, usually not the people I would tend to go for anyway. So, but like, I, you know, I am like visibly eccentric in a way that's not for everyone's taste.
00:04:15
Speaker
However, I'm still, I think I'm still pretty hot, right? Even apart from my decisions. And I feel as though in a world where apps weren't serving everyone up, a whole stream of tens, 24 hours a day, am I feeling better? I don't know, just the same. Because my dating life is actually pretty horrid.
00:04:44
Speaker
Okay, wait, sorry, keep going. That is like a theory I have. It's like, oh, what if, you know, everyone hot, but without my, you know, let's call them pink flags or whatever. Okay. There's this, that's awesome. I love that answer. And there's, and there's a lot to unpack there if I may. Um, so yeah, I would say you do, you do have a look, it's an awesome look. I think you've got a great look, but you're definitely not like, you know, norm core polo shirt or like teacher in jeans, right?
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't generally go for people who are like that anyway, you know, like nothing wrong with that. It's just like, you know, I tend to be attracted to people who can at least approach my level of weirdness, you know? Sure.
00:05:26
Speaker
And you're and like I think that's awesome. Like I frankly, I just don't have the like courage to have like awesome bright blue hair. And like I've got like a tattoo that I can hide, but you've got like ink that's like this. You're like bringing an identity, I would say, if that's safe to say. You say you don't have the courage. I don't have the restraint to do anything else. Like it is agonizing to try to be anything but exactly what I am. I had like I had an internship once at a you know,
00:05:55
Speaker
This kid I went to school with was a son of a publisher of one of the country's biggest newspapers. I got an internship there because my parents wanted me to do something for the summer. It's really lovely, apart from two people in HR who hated the way I dressed and forced me to wear actual trousers instead of tights and normal clothes for the entire summer. It was awful. As soon as I got out of there,
00:06:20
Speaker
my five each day, I would open up my bag and change my actual clothes. I don't know if you tried to be something or not, but it sucks. Well, that's a whole rabbit hole. I think I spent the first probably many, many decades of mine. I think I'm a late bloomer. I think I spent a long time just trying to figure out who it was that I wanted to be. But I totally appreciate what your
00:06:50
Speaker
what you're saying.
Personal Approaches to Modern Dating
00:06:51
Speaker
And that does suck to have somebody say, don't be you is that's awful. But hey, okay, this is a podcast about about modern dating. I'm interested in getting into it. So you're saying dating has been has been has been tough. Can I ask you to tell me more about that? Just it's like, my thing is like, it tends to be like a rare kind of person. I can like really feel like some some strong potential with
00:07:19
Speaker
And so like, that's already, I'm already like cutting, like, it already like really narrows, you know, my personal dating pool. And then within that like sliver of the population, the chances of finding someone who's, who reciprocates, and, and is also at the right, like stage of life, is like, those chances are pretty low. Like, it's like, I bet so many people, you know, I've clicked with, but
00:07:50
Speaker
they're, you know, they haven't, maybe, because my thing is, I'm also very like neuro divergent. So I tend to get along best with neuro divergent people. But the problem with that is that a lot of everyone, everyone learns how to manage their own mental stuff at a different pace.
00:08:13
Speaker
So often I'll click with someone and then we'll realize, oh yeah, you're not really ready for a relationship because you still have some work to do on yourself. I was definitely there not that long ago. So I feel that. But it does make a relationship untenable in those circumstances. Or they're just already with someone because the other thing, when you're a lovely freak and you meet another lovely freak, you tend to
00:08:40
Speaker
just, you know, match up pretty fast. So a lot of people I've met who would otherwise be, you know, great financial partners, you know, have already found their person who met them earlier, right? So it's stuff like that, you know, it makes it. But I think I don't think it's unique to me. I think like, you know, finding someone you it's like a sort of real, like, like natural compatibility is important to you. It's gonna, I think it's gonna be hard for almost anyone, you know,
00:09:07
Speaker
There are things that you can do to make it harder, and I've done almost all those things. I would say, okay, that's an awesome answer. Okay, if I'm hearing you right, it's the pool of people who might be that special someone seems small. Am I hearing that right? Yeah, yeah, relatively so, yeah. Yeah, I definitely
00:09:37
Speaker
I resonate with that, and I think a lot of people resonate with that. I think like, well, let me put it this way. Aside from people who are gonna dig sort of your look and your culture and your style, and aside from folks who are going to appreciate and click with your neurodivergence, right? Do you feel like you are, would you describe yourself
00:10:06
Speaker
I don't know, maybe that's not something you think about, but would you describe yourself as picky?
Romantic Connections: Necessity or Enhancement?
00:10:11
Speaker
When you meet somebody that fits those criteria, do you find yourself being like, oh, I don't know because of, I don't know, this or that or another box that you're looking to check? Not really. There's a spectrum of optimism, I suppose. There are definitely people who
00:10:35
Speaker
uh, give me clear signs that like, there's, there's some deep potential there and there are people for whom it, it might take some, you know, more digging to uncover. So I just, I tend to, I mean, this is not just how I relate to people. This is just like how I like to go through the world. I like to give everything a chance, you know? So if someone's interested in interest, like there's a pretty high likelihood I'm going to at least, you know, like go out for coffee with them or whatever. Um, like I, it's,
00:11:05
Speaker
I like to see where things go. And often, even if there's no romantic connection there, I've had great friendships that have come out of such things. So I never see the point in cutting off the branches at first glance. Also, just meeting people in general. I love meeting people, interacting with new people. And I always like to see where those connections go.
00:11:33
Speaker
That's awesome. To me, to my ears, you sound wise beyond your years, dude. I think that's a really smart way to go about it, to be honest with you. You say that, but my thing is, I am a lifelong romantic, and I mean that. I remember romance, even in an abstract sense, was on my mind since I was a little child. Probably single digits, if not maybe early middle school.
00:12:03
Speaker
Like, it's always something that seemed like something I'd like to have in my life. And like, I'm not the sort of person who like suffers from being single. But I do feel that like when I've been in a relationship to have an enriching experiences, you know, and I that's how I take things. I think my relationship is not one that any involved party needs to have a content life.
00:12:28
Speaker
Rather, it should be an enhancement to a life that you are already responsible for. I would say the wise beyond your years, man. I think it took me a long time to get anywhere near articulating and understanding that about me. And I would say I value that in a similar way.
00:12:54
Speaker
romantic connection is something that I just find really, really fulfilling. And I kind of see it as like, I have X amount of years. I don't know how many, but I've got a finite number of years on this earth. One of the things I want to do with it is, yeah, nurture a really awesome romantic connection. I think it's a worthwhile thing to do. But you say that that's been challenging. That's been a hard thing to do. Yeah, but also my point about having it on my mind at such a young age is that I've had a lot of time to think about it. Oh, OK. So it's all like, my wife's part of my years. I just got a head start.
00:13:24
Speaker
Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, okay. So, so, so, okay. So then what does, what does modern dating look like for you are like the apps involved? Do you try to meet people in the real world? What does it, what does it look like for you? Yeah, I've realized I don't, I, I tend to do, I, I tend to like, I don't do well in the apps at all. Um, I, uh, so, um, I occasionally I'll, you know, uh, like matches someone, but it's pretty rare. And also, yeah, I,
00:13:53
Speaker
My brother says I'm the only non-girl he knows who runs out of matches on the apps before running out of swipes. He says he has one friend who is a cis woman who has to let Tinder or whatever restock before she talks again, and I'm the only other person he knows like that.
00:14:21
Speaker
It's interesting. Yeah. Um, but hang on. I want to make sure I understand this correctly. So, so, so you're like the app Tinder or whatever app you want to use is like running out of people to show you. Yes. Um, and I was in a big city by the way, like I live in Toronto, which is like the biggest city in North America, outside of the United States.
00:14:47
Speaker
I'm in Canada. Okay. Yeah. We're, we're like a, a dense metropolis and, uh, should be a lot of fish in that pond. Yeah. Yeah. But I think a lot of them also, again, I think the types of people who are in apps in the first place, uh, like my 80 might be looking for something different or like be like, I think a lot of people I would vibe with just write off apps anyway. Cause we're apps do have a bad rep, you know, like a lot of people still think they, they're just hookups or whatever. Whereas like I do see people on them who are looking for something deeper, which is.
00:15:17
Speaker
I'm looking for. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's part of it. And also just, I think a lot of people aren't as stubborn as I am. So like, the apps, especially, you know, if you, if you present as, as, you know, feminine, like, you can get some, like, worst thing that happens to me on an app, like, maybe I get ghosted or whatever. I mean, I do get ghosted, but whatever. Whereas like, for people on the other side, it's so much worse. So I do, I do think that
00:15:47
Speaker
that limits things too.
Extroversion and Authenticity in Relationships
00:15:50
Speaker
And like, especially, you know, I think a lot of people I tend to vibe with are the more sensitized who would have less patience or the source of behavior that tends to be right from that. So I don't know, I'm kind of extrapolating like wildly right now. But yeah, that does happen.
00:16:06
Speaker
No, that's interesting. And I think I think I always sort of end up fixating on the apps and I kind of don't mean to but I do think they have a really outsized influence on dating for a lot of folks. So I'm always interested to hear people share with their experience on the app. So I don't know, I'm curious to know more if you're willing to talk about it. Like, yeah, which is, I mean, that kind of leads me that is one of the aspects that makes just meeting people in person so much preferable. And like, I just I am sure an extrovert and I like to go out in the world
00:16:36
Speaker
experience it and then you'll see the people in it and interact with them in whatever capacity. And so I do at least connect with more people in the real world, although it's funny. Over the last few months especially, okay, here's the thing. I feel like I've been since
00:17:00
Speaker
I've kind of noticed a bit of a progression since, you know, the whole like pandemic situation, like basically tailed off and then like, let, you know, the world open up again. And I feel like this is in the last like year, I've made so many more dates, but I've gone on about the same number as I did, you know, uh, before. Cause I just, like people, people just stand up at like for like, or cancel at the last second, like so easily, like it's insane.
00:17:27
Speaker
Like I think the majority I'd say have the dates I plan. It's like either they stand up or like they cancel within an hour of the date. And I sucks. I yeah, it's it's like, it's like, like, if you treat your mind like fine, but like, let me know, especially as like you make time to like, go and meet a person already on this train or whatever. And then like, and then you Oh, yeah, so now I don't have time to kind of it's it's hard. I just sounds like make other plans because I hate having free time. I like
00:17:56
Speaker
always having something to do, you know. So when I carve out some topics, I'm very extroverted of you to be, you know, honored, you know? No, absolutely. I would be. Yeah. Okay. So wait, can I can I dig into that a little bit? So I've definitely had people flake on me more so when I was in San Francisco than now that I'm in SoCal, but I've definitely had that experience and it definitely sucks. It sounds like for whatever reason, it's hitting you. Um,
00:18:24
Speaker
a lot, which totally sucks. Are these dates that you're setting up because you met somebody in real life or because you met somebody online or what's the prelude to the... Mostly in real life, I'd say. I just had to tend to meet the most people in real life. That's so impressive to me, by the way. That's the thing. I don't just say I'm hot because I look in the mirror.
00:18:52
Speaker
I say it because, you know, people tell me that when I'm like, you know, go out, you know, on the weekends or whatever. And like, and I, you know, you're a good looking dude, man. Yeah. I was thinking once I thought, you know what, if so many people tell me I'm hot, but so few people kiss me. So once they just said, Hey, if you think I'm so hot, like, why have you not made out with me already? And then that worked. And then she realized she was saying, it didn't go anywhere, which is what I'm saying. Like, I have so many post calls where like, it feels as though like, at least like once a month of somebody has like potential. And then
00:19:22
Speaker
It goes nowhere. Yeah. Um, and that's, yeah, it's, it's so weird. But yeah, no, so I do tend to like, you know, meet a bunch of people. Um, and like, I, but yeah, just like a lot of that just goes nowhere. Cause I don't know, like people, or like I, one thing I've noticed is. So, okay. This may be where I, maybe you could call this sticky. I kind of don't like people who.
00:19:48
Speaker
act as though just having a base level of good time is hard. I know so many people in my life who are like, oh, they go too hard on Friday, so they can't go out on Saturday, which seems insane to me. It's almost physically impossible to have, under normal circumstances, have a hangover that's going to knock you out for the rest of the weekend. If you're under 60, am I wrong?
00:20:16
Speaker
Listen get into your 30s man. Let me tell you it gets worse, but okay. I hear you, but okay if I'm not even yeah So I will say like if I'm if I see something in someone and then like they kind of like that's fine I have friends who do that and we're friends and it's fine, but like I I don't think I I could like have a partner who's that Could signed to
00:20:45
Speaker
that much recuperation, you know, you want somebody who can hang for like a party weekend. Yeah, yeah, at least like much like, you know, like 70% of my energy, you know, sure. So I think that is probably where I'm thinking like, if someone, if someone like needs to get isolated for like 90% of their time for like 10% that they engage in revelry, like that's probably not gonna go anywhere. And that's not a check on them. Like everyone has different like levels. And that's fine. I'm higher than most. And that's my thing.
00:21:13
Speaker
But there are people who go for more days a week than I do. And that's their thing too. So it is not finding the right compatibility for you. But that is. Yeah. And I would say seeing that as compatibility is, I think that's wise again. And yeah, look, if you're high energy and you've got a lot of get up and go and you want to be out, out, out, I think it is smart to look for someone who's going to match you there because you want to find someone who you're going to share those experiences with. I mean, right? Yeah.
00:21:44
Speaker
I love that. One of my big theories about modern dating, and maybe theories, but one of the things that I've been chewing on over my decade of being on the dating apps is dating apps, the good news is you can meet a thousand people that you would never otherwise meet. The bad news is you can meet a thousand people you would never otherwise meet, and it can be a lot.
00:22:10
Speaker
I think a part of that good news is that you really can figure out what you're looking for and you can select for that. I think it does make you picky, but I think in a way it's a good thing. I think in a way we're evolving towards finding
00:22:30
Speaker
romantic pairings or its partnerships pairing is a little romantic partnerships That are kind of better matches, you know, like you can say to yourself like no I want somebody who can hang for a party weekend as opposed to just like only having a small number of people in your social circle and like having to sort of adapt yourself to someone who Isn't maybe gonna meet you where you want to be met. Does that kind of make sense? Does that sound bananas? No, that makes a lot of sense and also like I think like that is
00:23:00
Speaker
like to the extent that I am picky it's not because like I think I'm like too good for anyone or anything it's because I don't I want to like try I'm not I'm a very optimistic person and I often like like people will often notice negatives long before I do so like when I'm going into something I I want to like do the best of my ability which isn't saying much um try to assess uh
00:23:30
Speaker
What are the potential like, uh, eventual deal of records? Cause I don't want to like waste my time with in, in a situation I tend towards monogamy. So if I'm like dating a person, I'm like focused on that person. And I don't want to like take myself out of the dating pool for something that's just going to end in like a few weeks or whatever. Anyway. Um, like I want some to at least have.
00:23:59
Speaker
like some long-term potential, you know? Yeah, even if it's a chance, because nothing's certain in life. So that's why I tend to go, that's partially why I tend to see where every situation leads me, but I don't want something that's destined to be just like a short fling. Yeah, I understand that. That makes a lot of sense.
00:24:19
Speaker
I get you not to be like the age thing, but like I definitely find people kind of in my sort of age end of the dating pool do that as well. Like people are very upfront kind of early about like these are mental breakers for a lot of women. It's about like having kids and they're very early, just like like they're in their late thirties and they're like very, very set on starting a family soon. And it's like, OK, well, that's a very real life thing that like we're not on the same page about. And like, I don't want to waste your time, you know,
00:24:48
Speaker
So I think it's good. I think it's respectful. It's respecting yourself. It's respecting your own time. I think that's, again, I think that's really wise, man. Yeah. And also, I mean, I will say this, yeah, can you talk about kids? And I just, I know can never be a parent. I like, I'm kind of my own child. So I can't be responsible for another. I can't, I don't even really want to be responsible for a plant if I can avoid it. I love, I love plants. I love, I love kids. I love animals, but I don't want to ever be the primary
00:25:16
Speaker
or even like secondary caretaker for one. Like, you need to watch a cat for like a weekend or like, you know, I'm looking forward to when my brother has kids, because that means like it's like, you know, take like a nibbling out on Halloween or whatever, which sounds like a jam, because, you know, trick-or-treating is such the vibe. But yeah, I would never want to like actually, you know, raise another life, personally. I'm a big fan of being an uncle, can definitely recommend. It's an awesome time. Uncles are, aunts and uncles are important.
00:25:45
Speaker
Hard grab a leaf. Um, but, uh, my thing about being like sort of upfront, again, this kind of comes naturally to me. So I'm lucky, but like, I want like, if something about you is, or something about me is going to like turn you off down the line, like you should know that from the jump. So like, I do, I am like very obviously neurodivergent from like second one, but like, if there's anything you somehow missed, like I'm going to let you know, like what my weirdness is and you can do with that when you will.
00:26:14
Speaker
Can I give you a little, just like as somebody who started talking to you three hours ago, I've had a lot of awesome neurodivergent people in my life.
Masculinity and Supportive Friendships
00:26:23
Speaker
The woman who kind of taught me everything I know at my job in my professional life was very neurodivergent. So near and dear place, it's my heart. She's amazing. And she taught me a lot of things. But I would say like you, I don't know that I would say like that guy right there is definitely a neurodivergent.
00:26:45
Speaker
I think you have a lot of energy. I think you've got a very particular style and vibe, but I'm not sure that I would say, or I don't know, I guess what I mean to ask is, it sounds to me like you feel like people in the dating world, I guess, to keep it about dating, spot you that way, or maybe filter you out that way. I guess I'm asking, what's your experience with that, or what's your feel for that? I see that as a positive. I'm actually
00:27:14
Speaker
Okay, not even just in the dating world, but in life, it's very good because like I tend to and I definitely don't mean to say it's a negative for sure. For sure. My thing is like, I just you know, people tell me about like all the drama in their lives, like how they know like all these like, you know, horror people in their lives or whatever. And I feel so
00:27:32
Speaker
My ceiling or sorry, my floor for the quality person in my life is just naturally high because the absolute trash people of the world like will recognize the sort of person I am from like a block away and just turn right around before I even have a chance to know them, you know.
00:27:53
Speaker
Like the worst, like the worst people in my life are just like, Oh, maybe, you know, they kind of like dollar whatever, you know, or like, we don't have a lot to talk about. We don't even come wherever, but like the absolute like trash of the world. Like I don't have much of that in my life. I don't have a lot of people like I would, like I, or people who like start drama or whatever, like for whatever reason, I tend to attract like people who are just on the wholesome end of the spectrum. And that's okay. Exactly. You know, I love that perspective. That's awesome. That is awesome. Um,
00:28:23
Speaker
Have you, so in, well, I definitely don't wanna like, so in dating mostly it sounds like the apps don't work great. The apps aren't really a place where you're able to meet potential connections. It's mostly in the real world. Yes. I think that's cool. What's your- I feel so, like I've gone to like a few like, occasionally like all, a friend of mine needs like a mainstream club. I tend to go like, you know,
00:28:51
Speaker
more alternative or queer ones or whatever. It's like the environment here is lovely, you know, good energy, but like there is basically like no one here. Like I could imagine, or I would have like a strong journey to like spend that much time. Like after this with, you know, and that's something on them. It's just like, yeah, we're just on different frequencies and that's fine. And I feel as though a lot of apps are like that or the ones that aren't just have almost no one on them because they're so niche.
00:29:22
Speaker
Got it, got it. Again, the dating pool is kind of smaller because you're looking for kind of a specific vibe. Yeah. So at least when I go out to the real world and I can choose the sorts of places I go to and that weighs things in my favor because it's deadly populated with more of the sorts of people I have things in common with and can spend time with even if it's in whatever sort of capacity. That's cool. I love that.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've been working hard to try and like find things to do, like find real world things to just meet people. I find people talk about how like later in life, it's harder to make friends. And I think that's mostly a product of like
00:30:10
Speaker
know, people who have been around longer are more likely to like have families and kids and already have like pretty strong social circles where they're not just like out in the world meeting new people to just meet new people. But I don't know, I bet it's hard for everybody on some level. But anyways, which is to say like, I just really admire that.
00:30:27
Speaker
you're able to just go out into those spaces and meet new people that way. Because I think for a lot of people, and for me, when I'm not good about getting out into the world, the apps are kind of the only way that I meet potential romantic connections. And the apps, for all kinds of reasons, can be really, really frustrating for everyone, depending on how you're, well, yeah. And I think the apps are frustrating for most people, probably in different ways, but I think they are frustrating. So that's cool. I think that's really cool that you're meeting people in the real world.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah. And it sounds like you do that just by virtue of the fact of like knowing your vibe, knowing your culture, knowing the places that you like to go to meet those people. And you just go do that. Is that is that too simple? Am I am I? I definitely don't mean to like oversimplify it, but it sounds cool. Yeah, no, basically, I don't always choose the right places or whatever. But also if I choose the wrong place, like, you know, I'm not like
00:31:23
Speaker
try that, oh, well, all right, I just paid cover and now I'm going to go somewhere else. I don't know if that doesn't bother me. So yeah, but yeah, I like just trying new things in general. So like, you know, even if like, so just going out for its own sake is a nice time in itself. And you know, while I'm there, if I meet someone at school, but often I don't and I still have a great time, like I go out to friends and or I meet new ones.
00:31:52
Speaker
So yeah, it's kind of like win-win. That's awesome. And so, I mean, if I can pry about that a little bit, you're saying like, so sometimes when you're going out, you're all going out with friends. Do you have like, or is that true? Are you, are you often going out with friends when you're going out? Yeah, usually, but also, you know, no, no, usually I'm kind of going out with friends. Um, or like, also like I, I tend to like, I have just like people I know, like in the world. So like, I'll often like, I just add clubs that go to all running people I know, but whatever. My thing is like,
00:32:23
Speaker
uh life happens to so many people in so many different ways and like you know i've had like i know people who like oh if their friend cancels on them for like plans they had they'll just like uh scrap those plans my thing is if that happens to me i'm still gonna make things happen like i don't uh i don't believe in like letting anything get in the way of what i want to do so if if i make plans with throughout friends and then okay i got sick or like were ran late or fell asleep or whatever because
00:32:52
Speaker
You know, I have great friends. You know, and it's going solo, whatever. That's fine. I'll just, you know, meet people on there. I love that. That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, I think a lot of people are learning to like, I've heard people who like, I've definitely talked to people said, Oh, yeah, I tried going up by myself for the first time, because like, I've just taken for concert over, and I started like, going like by myself, because my friend canceled, but I went out a great time. I'm gonna do more of this. It's like, yeah, that's,
00:33:22
Speaker
That's the way to do it. You're always going to have a better time in trying something than you was you didn't. Or there's always a much higher chance. There's no real catastrophe scenario. Yeah. Dude, I think that's the attitude. OK, so listen, we're half hour in here. Can I kind of take a left here in this conversation? Yes. I'm curious to know.
00:33:51
Speaker
Oh, give me a second. I want to figure out how I want to ask this. I'm kind of curious to know how masculinity, whatever that might mean, however that might impact you, whatever those societal ideals or whatever. I'm kind of curious to know how that has impacted you and your dating. And I kind of ask that because like, well, I guess I'm curious to know, do you have people with whom you can talk about these kinds of,
00:34:19
Speaker
dating challenges and like this, I mean, it sounds like romance is an important part of what you're looking for in life. And I think that's awesome and beautiful. And I guess I'm curious to know about your experience with, do you get support from peers about that? Do you feel like you're able to talk to people about that and that kind of thing? Does it make sense? Yeah, I mean, I can talk to people about anything. I do have like, you know, most of my friends do tend to be like, pretty open and accepting anyway. So
00:34:49
Speaker
Like, you know, like this, this is stuff that gets talked about. Um, and also like a lot of them are going through the same stuff too. Like the ones who aren't in like glorious, like, uh, goal worthy relationships are largely insane, but I'm it, you know, hard to find people you click with. And then, you know, but again, like the people who do, who have already found, you know, their people are, tend to be doing a very good job of it. You know, like I, I feel as though like,
00:35:17
Speaker
I mean, a majority, but a lot of my friends are either like single or in like beautiful relationships that have been going on for years. Um, yeah. So just, yeah, when it happens, it can, like for, you know, I think, I think for people like us, when it happens, it happens hard, you know, it just can take a while for that to happen. Um, but yeah, and I, I, I, I am like lucky to have to, to exist in a peer group that is just, you know, uh, like relatively emotionally, um,
00:35:47
Speaker
open and mature enough to have such conversations. Any conversations really, I don't tend to vibe with people who are emotionally closed off that much. I love that. There are people who don't enjoy talking about it as much, but no one really would feel aghast at any sort of subject. I love that.
00:36:16
Speaker
I super love that. Do you feel like, and then do you feel like you and that friend group are kind of outliers in that way? Or do you feel like that's kind of a, again, I don't mean to be like an old man asking, you know, what's it like being young? But you know what I mean? Like, I'm interested in like the generational shift on that front. I mean, I do just feel in the way that like, culture has evolved. Like, because I mean, I wasn't there for, you know, all of the 20th century or whatever. But I can look at, you know, its artifacts and
00:36:45
Speaker
like take notes. And I do think that it's that culture is increasingly reading towards like more like openness on a number of levels, and more more diversity and like, you know, emotionally, like mentally, like, even just like, like mental health and stuff like that's something to get talked about so much more now.
00:37:10
Speaker
And so all these things are positive. So I do think that it's only going to get better. And I feel as though, yeah, my peer group probably isn't that anomalous as these things go. They're always going to get more oppressed or just maybe more stoic. And that's fine, too. Soicism is an ancient practice. And if that's your choice, I'm not going to judge you for it. But I feel even the stoics of our world
00:37:40
Speaker
will probably on the whole at least recognize that not everyone needs to be like them. Yeah. That's cool. I think, um, well, okay, then, and just to, I don't know, I'm not expecting you to be like an expert on this or whatever, but like, I do feel like there are young,
00:38:01
Speaker
men and I would say like mask people but like they're people who would identify themselves as men, right? Sis-hit dudes. Yes, largely these are the ones who Paul prays you.
00:38:12
Speaker
the danger. Yeah. Who fall prey to really toxic things. I think there's definitely discourse out there around dating especially that's really focused on being a man and finding a tradwife or whoever you want to phrase those things. But I do think there is that cultural... Is that bananas? Is that not what we're saying anywhere? No, you don't know what I'm saying.
00:38:38
Speaker
you're probably right. I just I don't like to do run into circles. Let's see if that's sort of like you just avoid those people. It's like hearing a funny word in another language, you know? Yeah, that's fair. I don't think I don't avoid anyone they like the bad people avoid me. I don't have to do it. I don't have to do anymore. I don't have to filter anything. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
Well, I gotta tell you, man, you seem like a catch to me, dude. It breaks my heart that you're having a hard time finding that thing that it seems like you deserve. Yeah, but to your point though, so first of all, I've never really sort of had... Part of this could be my sort of own autistic mind in the way it sort of filters out
00:39:26
Speaker
societal norms and pressures. I'm not really aware of society's expectations in any sort of natural way. So I've never had an inherent concept of gender. So that probably puts me in a certain place to begin with. So that's to say I don't really have any idea of what masculinity does or should mean.
00:39:53
Speaker
But I do think that puts me ahead of the game in a way, because I think that is where the world's going. I think we are sort of... That's the catchphrase now, right? You enter the social construct. And I think I was kind of already there, but because I don't really notice social constructs to begin with. So I think we're already moving to a world where hard definitions of masculinity are obsolete, and I was just kind of born like that.
00:40:22
Speaker
Um, but no, I do, I do know people in my, I do have the occasional sis head friend, you know, they, uh, they are, but they do exist. Yeah. And, uh, like I, I'm not going to mention any names, so I can say at least one of them, like, you know, has friends who are less like me, uh, or at least people in his life who are, you know, um, less wholesome influences. And like, I, I, there was a period where.
00:40:51
Speaker
I kind of saw that he was on the precipice of some negative ways of thinking. And I worked to pull him back from that. And he's fine now. We're in the same boat as far as being unlucky in love. But he's taken a healthier approach to it now. And he's definitely never felt fully into anything bad. But I could see that some of the years in his mind were
00:41:22
Speaker
like turning in a chapter clockwise direction. And now more well oiled. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. If I can, okay. And no is a perfectly acceptable answer here, but like, can I, can I pry a little bit about that? Like when you said, this is someone who you sort of reached out to and they were
00:41:44
Speaker
maybe leading in a direction. And if I hear, if I hear what you're saying, this is somebody who was maybe leaning into what you might call like toxic masculinity or going into sort of like ideals of masculinity that, and I think I would agree with you here, um, that are, are unhealthy, like are not going to lead you to a, to a filling life that are, that are just sort of harmful to, to you and to people around you. Like am I hearing you right? Like that was somebody that was kind of leaning in that direction a little bit. Well, I think here's the thing. And I think this is actually why so many people fall into these things. And it's not just because of people in your own life. I think like, you know,
00:42:13
Speaker
You might have had a few people like that, but like, oh, not that bad. Um, but I think his thing is like people, when you, when you're confused about something in life, you know, naturally you look for answers, right? And if you don't have people in your life, you can like talk to readily and especially he was far more introverted than I am. So like, obviously something like that is going to be even more inclined to look for answers where on the internet and what's the internet filled with?
00:42:37
Speaker
just the loudest, most volatile opinions. And so I think that kind of, oh, you know, this YouTube channel or that is going to like fill your head with some nonsense and it's going to seem innocuous at first until you get deeper down the hole. And I think I was able to like, you know, throw a rope down before he got too deep for it to reach. And I think- Can I ask? Yeah, because that's- I think you're right. It starts innocuously enough. It's like, oh, you know, you're like, sort of, you know,
00:43:07
Speaker
person talking from their, their lectern or whatever, like, oh, you're, you're a man, you know, you're, you're, you have your inherent worth, you deserve someone who can respect that. And if you're not doing as though that scene, you're going to keep listening. It's like a horoscope almost.
Encouragement and Perseverance in Finding Love
00:43:21
Speaker
And then, you know, it's a while before you get hit with like the real bad stuff, which is, you know, people, we have no shortage of demagogues that that target vulnerable young men right now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:34
Speaker
It's easy for them. It's a pretty easy playbook. Once you get them in, you can basically say whatever you want. Because the stuff they lead with is often not that objectionable. It might be, at worst, it's coming from a narrow point of view. But the opening line is generally not anything that controversial. It's like, hey, you have work or whatever. It's just gassing you up. And then you hit with the real stuff. And then it gets bad.
00:44:07
Speaker
The question I want to ask is, what does it look like throwing that rope to that person? But I hear you. I do think it's out there. I think there are a lot of... It's like an industry, basically. There's this machine that's finding vulnerable men and starting out with really innocuous sounding stuff and leading them into things that are harmful. Harmful to dudes, harmful to the people around them, harmful to everybody involved.
00:44:32
Speaker
So yeah, anyway, I think same page there, but if I can pry, if I can ask, I'm curious to know like, I mean, I don't know if there could be that much to it, but like, what does it look like throwing a life preserver, throwing a rope to somebody who's going that way? You know what? It kind of just felt like natural, just like, but I kind of dissected now. My first thing was going to say like,
00:44:55
Speaker
just sort of offering like to, you know, be there for them, or like, be certain, like just being there for them, like being a presence in their life. I was gonna say, yeah, provide someone they could talk to. And they were like, at least in this particular person's case, like, maybe he like, had a had a severe shortage of that, of someone he could feel comfortable enough to like, talk openly to about this sort of thing.
00:45:23
Speaker
And I'm going through some of the conversations we had and some of the conversations that other people in the room had. And yeah, I'm thinking like, yeah, definitely he did not have enough of that in his life. And of course, that's so common. Not just for men, but because of these sort of attitudinal relics of traditional masculinity, it can hurt them harder because
00:45:53
Speaker
they might feel as though they're not supposed to talk about it as much. You know, other people might feel similarly uncomfortable, but like, the expectation to like, tend everything down is probably lesser in a lot of cases. So I'd say, yeah, you can just like, let in and also like, like, I wasn't speaking from a place that was like, entirely different, because I have my own very, like, real,
00:46:21
Speaker
like romantic troubles. And I definitely have certain advantages that he didn't, but that doesn't change the fact that we were not in very different places as far as where we were along that journey to finding a relationship. So I think like- Yeah. You're both on that path. You're both looking at that thing. Yeah, yeah. We didn't have a lot. Maybe he didn't have a lot he could see through in me.
00:46:48
Speaker
or in me to relate to on other levels. But that was a very honest point of connection. So yeah, in a sense, we were going through that together. And I think that helped. And yeah, I talked through it and stuff. And I also explained why some of the things he was hearing were not to be trusted. I think that's awesome. James, listen, I know we're getting close to time here.
00:47:17
Speaker
I, you know, I, and I'm sure an awkward way, but I'm doing my best. Like I'm trying to do this little passion project podcast, like just having conversations like dudes and everyone, but people having conversations about this stuff to make space for men to talk about this. I think a lot of times we kind of just don't have the like template or the framework or the like, I know for me, it's been an awkward,
00:47:44
Speaker
stop and go process of just developing the framework to even talk about this stuff. And I just kind of wish there were more dudes who did it. So I want to thank you for like reaching out and being like, Hey, I want to have one of those conversations. I think that's really super impressive. So thank you so much for taking time to like, join my little podcast, dude. My absolute pleasure for real. Um, yeah, this definitely like, yeah, even exceeded expectations. It is very yeah. And I like you had some enlightening things to say that that I
00:48:14
Speaker
I can hear. And this is this is wonderful. Well, as we wrap it up here, you are also you're in a frickin rock band. You're in a band, right? Yeah, we actually it's funny. We just have a big show we've been preparing for on Saturday this past Saturday. We're opening up for like Anvil, who are like Canadian legends of rock. Like they were like almost like Canadian ACDC in the 80s. And then we got to open for them. I remember a movie came about about them when I was a kid and I got to open for them.
00:48:44
Speaker
And that's awesome. How did it go? Oh, very well. As I told you, but we've been like preparing for that for a while. And then like on the same weekend, we got asked to play a last minute show for, uh, like, just like, I think like one of the other bands got sick. So we had to fill in. So on this coming Friday, we have another show, like just immediately after. And, uh, and I'm excited for that now too, because, you know, I just, I just love performing. So, um, they didn't have to be in the Toronto area on November 20, wait,
00:49:15
Speaker
Pretty fourth this Friday. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Penny's bar, Lauren lands down. We're rocking it. But if, uh, if anyone wants to check out my music, we're called the hot Apollo, you can search for us. Hot Apollo.com or Spotify or Apple or whatever you listen to music on. But for how to find us our videos, our albums, it's awesome.
00:49:35
Speaker
on Apollo. Go find it people. Yeah. Awesome, dude. Okay, well, I will get this podcast out as fast as I can so that people in the area can go check you out on Friday. And yeah, man, thank you so much for making time. I super appreciate it. Thank you so much. Yeah, man.
00:49:54
Speaker
Thank you for listening. That was my quick conversation with James, who's in Toronto, who just found me on the internet and wanted to have a chat, which I was honestly really impressed by. So yeah, James, thank you so much for being on, man.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. This pod is all about just having those conversations. If I met somebody on the street and managed to talk about this kind of stuff, it's those kinds of conversations that I think are important. I think it's important to be able to talk about this with your closest trusted friends, but also with strangers who you might like, meet, and find that they're able to go to a vulnerable place and support you and give you a different perspective.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know, it was just cool to get to chat with him about it. So yeah, hot Apollo, if you're in Toronto, go check out, go find them and watch them play. And yeah, I don't know, I...
00:50:59
Speaker
I guess kind of my takeaway or my thought after that convo is like, it seems to me like James really has his ducks in a row. He knows what he's looking for. He seems supportive, seems emotionally intelligent, seems like he's, you know, done, is doing the work. Is doing the work of, you know,
00:51:22
Speaker
being an awesome person and also the work of trying to find that romantic connection. And for me, that's encouraging because it's a good reminder that I think even if you're doing everything right, or even if you are putting in the work, it can still be tough. It can still be tough finding that awesome thing. But I don't know, for me, I think it's a good reminder to not give up. Well,
00:51:55
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe that's a reminder to not give up, but my two cents or my encouragement to James or anybody who feels like they're putting in the work and that it's still really hard, my two cents is to not give up. Because yeah, I don't think it's easy, but I do think it's worth it. And that's modern dating for you.
00:52:20
Speaker
Alright folks, thanks again to James for hopping on and chatting real quick. I super appreciate it. As always, you can find me on Wish You All the Best Pod on Instagram. Reach out, let me know what you think, or let me know if you want to chat about something, or let me know if I'm wrong about something. I want to hear it.
00:52:40
Speaker
And that's what I got for you this time. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Thank you as always for listening. And yeah, I'll talk to you again soon.