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Julie - How Dating (and Matchmaking) Have Changed
80 Plays1 year ago
Loved this chat with Julie Ferman, a matchmaker who has brought 1300 couples together! Check out her podcast Cupid's Coach and for more info on her matchmaking services, check out julieferman.com.
music: "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch, https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch, Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0, ttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah.
Introduction to Modern Dating
00:00:19
Speaker
Welcome back to Wish You All the Best, a personal podcast about modern dating. I'm your host, Scott Simmons. For this episode, my guest is Julie Furman. I'm going to talk about her business a whole bunch in the episode. She is a matchmaker.
00:00:37
Speaker
If you like what you hear, you can go to juliefermin.com and you can look her up at Cupid's Coach podcast. I like my conversation with Julie. I was excited to have her come on the pod. She's been doing this for a while and I like having that perspective of someone who's been looking at kind of dating culture
00:00:58
Speaker
over the years.
Impact of Pandemic and Apps on Dating
00:01:00
Speaker
If you've been listening for a while, you know that I think dating has changed quite a bit because of the pandemic, because of dating apps. I think it makes it difficult and interesting and complicated. So I really enjoyed talking to her about that. But I think you'll hear in the episode that like, I think there are a lot of
00:01:20
Speaker
sort of like the fundamentals of romance or meeting someone. She does, I think to an extent, bring what I might call kind of a traditional
00:01:31
Speaker
perspective or lens to dating. But honestly, for the most part, I can't really say that I disagree that much.
Matchmaking vs. Dating Apps
00:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think we saw everything 100% eye to eye, but these conversations wouldn't be any fun if I only had people on here who I agreed with 100% of the time. I really, really, really appreciated her time. I hope you'll enjoy the conversation.
00:01:59
Speaker
You've heard me say this before, if you've been listening for a while, I think matchmakers are a pretty good idea. If you're seriously looking for that special someone, I don't think you can necessarily just forget about the apps. But I do think a matchmaker is a good idea. You're definitely going to spend money on the apps, especially if you're a guy.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I think it's worth it to kind of look at your budget and figure out, do you want to be throwing money at the apps for a number of months, or do you want to kind of save it up and invest in a matchmaker? Julie has a variety of services. I mean, this is not an ad or anything, but I like kind of her approach. There are a variety of ways that she can help somebody out.
00:02:49
Speaker
And yeah, you can find more information on our website. I think matchmakers are a pretty good idea for this kind of thing. I think the apps are not great. And I think just the issue of connection, that problem we all face of connecting to other people, whether it's for those platonic friendships or for romantic connection,
00:03:13
Speaker
I think it's tough these days, especially once you get to a certain age, making new friends is hard. Meeting new people can be really difficult. And matchmakers are people who have kind of devoted their lives to helping people connect. And they, you know, they all put a lot of time and effort into or I should say they most mostly matchmakers put a lot of time and effort into it and they really care about it. I think I've met a few who are who I might not recommend. But Julie is certainly one of the matchmakers that
Julie's Matchmaking Journey
00:03:40
Speaker
I would recommend. So
00:03:42
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And as always, thank you. Thank you for tuning in. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Julie. Julie Furman, thank you so very much for joining me. How are you today?
00:04:00
Speaker
I'm great now that I get to talk to you, Scott. You're so sweet. Okay, so I want to jump right in here. So you are a matchmaker, we got connected, I believe because somebody at different service recommended me to you, but whatever. We were doing some creative recruiting for one of my clients and we found you.
00:04:23
Speaker
I, I love that. Um, uh, yeah, so I, I want to, I do. I want to get the plugs out of the way right at the top. If someone's looking for a matchmaker or for your services, or if they like what they hear during this pod, I want them to go to, uh, juliefermin.com. J U L I E F E R M A N.com. Um, and also to check out, um, uh, cupid's coach, the podcast cupid's coach. Is that right? That's right. Okay. Awesome. Um, okay.
00:04:54
Speaker
There's there's so many things I want to talk to you about. I've worked with a number of matchmakers in the past. Anyone that's been listening to this pod knows I'm a fan of matchmakers just to kind of get it out of the way. I mean, the pitch here, I think modern dating, you know, you're going to spend money, especially if you're a guy, a straight or straightish guy, you're going to spend money on on the apps.
Benefits of Matchmaking Systems
00:05:17
Speaker
And I think at the end of the day, you know, not everybody can afford it. It is not. I don't want to, you know, it's not just like, hey,
00:05:23
Speaker
It's not the cost of a Starbucks cup of coffee, right? But if you can't afford it, I think a matchmaker is a very, very wise investment. Well, especially in now, because you don't have to be the active search client in order to be in the mix. So in the old days with dating services, and there's still some that operate this way, they'll only introduce an active search, high paying client to another high paying client.
00:05:50
Speaker
And the problem is what about all the other people, right? All the other people in their world who didn't want to spend $10,000 or whatever it costs. So that's why I built my system so that you could be in the system. It's free. It's private. I'm not working actively for you, but guess what? I just did three introductions this morning and all three of them were two people who are not currently high level clients. So it just gives me a huge, we call it a date of base of people to pull from.
00:06:21
Speaker
I love that. I love that. And do you mind if I ask? So when folks are asking me about this kind of stuff, I usually say that especially for women, I would advise talking to a matchmaker and making sure that they sort of know that you're out there.
00:06:36
Speaker
Because in my experience, it's often guys who are hiring matchmakers. And for women, I think it's just smart to let a matchmaker know who you are and what you're looking for so that they can be kind of in the database. Is that good advice? Yes, completely good advice. And also they should have awesome photos, not overly retouched, not 10 years ago version, not just a face shot, because especially
00:07:02
Speaker
you know, guys are visual and they need to be attracted not only to her visually or face and all that, but also body type. The guy who goes for stick skinny isn't going for curves and vice versa. So we got to work with that. And the women can help a lot by making their getting their photos done regularly. Every time she changes her hair, every time she loses 10 pounds gains 10 pounds, get your photos done, have your friend do it or see a professional. And
00:07:31
Speaker
I mean, if we can go off the rails already, is that, is that, to what extent is that also true for guys? I mean, I think, I think a lot of guys were not great at getting photos of ourselves. You should see the photos that you guys send me. It's hilarious. The one in, I'm sure mine are terrible. No, actually yours are fine, but the ones in front of the nasty ass shower curtain. I mean, come on, there's got to be a better way. Now somebody told me that the reason that happens is because
00:07:59
Speaker
Guys very often have only one mirror in their house and it's in the bathroom. So that's why that shot ends up. I don't know. Somebody came up with that shot thinking it was okay and now everybody does it. Everybody does the car shot. But seriously, the more selective the guy is, the more important his own photos are. I can't tell you how many times I can't get the yes from her because his photos are lousy and she took the time to do them properly. So yeah.
00:08:30
Speaker
And please put your shirt on guys. I mean, for, for, for, for guys who have been so, okay. So let's say there's a guy listening to this podcast and he's thinking, okay, I need to, I want to figure out how to present myself online. And let's be real. Even if you're not using a matchmaker, um, online marketing is now an important skill for dating. Like if you're on hinge or bumble or whatever, you want good pictures. Do what? I mean, so put your shirt on.
00:08:57
Speaker
get away from the dirty shower curtain. Do you have any other like advice or like what is a good set of pictures for a guy like in your book? Great question, Scott. I want to see what the what they look like when they're dressed up so that we know that they can do it. Right. Even a guy who might not wear a suit except for a funeral or a wedding, just to have a sport coat or something that shows that he's got it in his closet. Then she's thinking, OK, I can take him to
00:09:26
Speaker
Nana's house for Thanksgiving and he's probably going to be OK. Also, a casual shot. What do you look like on a regular day? Maybe doing something that you love could be biking or hiking or something like that. And then kind of an everyday one. What do you look like when you go to work? You know, like I've got room for five photos on my profiles and that's all you need. Five photos is great and very them have the courage. One of them can be a selfie, but they shouldn't all be selfies.
00:09:55
Speaker
I often tell my guy friends, and I'm a hypocrite, I don't do this as much as I ought to, but I always tell my guy friends,
Profile Photo Tips
00:10:01
Speaker
if you have a guy friend and he's single, the best thing you can do for that guy is just snap pictures of him while you're out and about. Women do this all the time. Another podcast story I know really well, she's awesome, Charlotte. She'll say, women will just take pictures of each other because their hair looks cute at brunch. Men don't do that.
00:10:20
Speaker
Especially these days. I think the best thing you can do for a single guy friend is just snap pictures of him and send them to him and be like Hey, bro, you looked you know something. I love to advise people to do. Let's say you're you're on a date What was that just under really loud? Did you hear the thunder like seriously loud thunder? Let's say you're on a date and you know, it's gonna be kind of a friend zone connection It's not gonna be the match of the century romantically. I say I
00:10:48
Speaker
Before you leave, take pictures of each other. Hey, you know what? We're not, we're gonna probably be friends, but it's not gonna be a romance, right? You know what, Scott? Your photos are not anywhere near as cute as you are. How about I take a couple photos of you now and I'll send them to you and you can upgrade your photos. That's very sweet. Wait, are you saying that theoretically or do I do that? I'm only saying it theoretically. I like your photos. But seriously, especially for guys, they really need them.
00:11:15
Speaker
There's a place in LA that I love to send people. And I started sending a lot of dates there during COVID. It's in Malibu. It's called Legacy Park. And it's right by Cross Creek. And it's just this wonderful place to send people for a date, whether it's during a pandemic or any day. And it's kind of a wonderful place to walk around and take pictures, but to take pictures of each other as well, I think is a beautiful thing to do on a date. Make it a photographic adventure.
00:11:44
Speaker
And I send people to do this, even if they're not photography buffs, it's really fun. That's a cool idea. I mean, I've honestly never thought of doing that on a date. That's cool. Yeah. I like activity dates, especially second dates and third dates, you know, the whole sitting in a restaurant, spending a lot of money on dinner. The guys get really tired of it. Ladies usually love it, but it's a lot of money for guys to fork out. So I do recommend for the first date that it be something
00:12:11
Speaker
face to face at a table, could be coffee, could be drinks, could be a cafe lunch outside, it could be a nice dinner, if that's what he enjoys doing, but it should never be expected. And if it's still to the point where because women like to be treated like women, he should always assume he's going to pay for the first date. Sometimes women will say,
00:12:35
Speaker
Oh, would you like some help with that? I'm happy to help with that. But she doesn't really mean it. And she's she might do the reach, but she's hoping that you're going to say, oh, no, no, I got it. And then if she's smart, she's going to say, all right, only if you let me get the next one. If we go out again next week, my turn, something like that. So that it's not five days into it. And it's been the responsibility of the guy to plan everything, pay for everything. Women want the guy with the plan. But you know what?
00:13:02
Speaker
When we're in a relationship, who plans things? Is it the guy or the girl? Yeah. It's always the girl. But she has this expectation that the guy is going to show up with a plan. So I tell ladies, look, have some options. Save the guy. Tell him, oh, I'm easy to schedule with. I'm open on Saturday. I'm open on Tuesday. And also ideas. I love this coffee shop. I love a cafe. Give him some.
00:13:30
Speaker
things to choose from that are a variety of different types of locales so he can choose what he's comfortable with. And don't say only the four seasons. Okay, wait, let's put a pin in that because actually one of the big things that I do want to talk to you about is kind of
00:13:48
Speaker
Well, big picture kind of like feminism and how I think women really need to be pursued and how men often need to feel like a provider.
Julie's Personal Love Story
00:13:57
Speaker
I want to dig in on that. I really do. But actually, I want to zoom out just a little bit because and I definitely do not mean to be rude here. But you have a lot of experience in this field. You've been doing this for a little bit.
00:14:10
Speaker
33 years. Yeah, that's amazing to me. And that's one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you about this, because I feel like you I mean, you just have to have like, I feel like you've seen dating and matchmaking and yeah, just dating culture in general change over the years.
00:14:27
Speaker
So I wanted to give you the opportunity first, because I love the story, to talk about how you got into this. But then I'd really like to dig in on how things have changed over the past, over the past 30 years, because I have some pet theories about it, but I want to hear your take. Well, it all fits in because back when I was a single girl in my 20s, I was really serious about finding my partner. And then at 27, I had surgery and I ended up with half of one ovary.
00:14:56
Speaker
Right. And I wanted to have kids. I was the girl who wanted kids like yesterday. So I got busy and I hired myself a dating coach. And back then, the only proactive strategies we had available to us was placing a personal ad in the newspaper. And I did it three times. My dating coach and I put together a really interesting, proactive, strategic plan.
00:15:21
Speaker
I put together a profile all about myself with pictures. I went to Kinko's. I had a gazillion copies made. I sent it out to 50 of my closest friends, colleagues, and family members with a cover letter that said, who do you know who wants to meet this girl? I went on over 50 first dates in two years just on that plan. And interestingly, the one that stuck the most was my mother's attorney. I even sent one to my mother.
00:15:50
Speaker
But then I moved back to St. Louis, where I was from. By that time, I was working for the Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, 90 hours a week, opening new hotels. I had no life. And I was 29.9 years old with half of an ovary left. So I'm like, tick tock. So I'm sitting there in St. Louis in an Ethiopian restaurant by myself, feeling like the biggest loser, crying in my beer over my love life. And I'm looking at the personal ads and I'm thinking, I can't do this where I grew up.
00:16:17
Speaker
What if my history teacher sees me? What if my old boyfriend finds me there and puts the word out that Jew is doing personal ads? She must be really lonely and a loser, which is the way I felt. So in that publication was also ads for dating services. So I ripped the page out. I called three of them. Two of them were blind date matchmaking companies. And I'm surprised that these still exist today.
00:16:40
Speaker
where they're gonna go to a guy and they're gonna say, hey Scott, you know, I got a great gal, she's wonderful, she's 37, she's this, she's that, she's very attractive. You wanna see a picture, don't you? You wanna see a picture. Maybe for people whose photos would hurt them, they could consider blind date matchmaking. But the other one was video dating. You could see videos, you could see photos. So I call and I make a reservation and make an appointment and the guy who sold me that membership
00:17:10
Speaker
who took my $1,450 as the man I'm married to. So first he took my money, and then I flirted with him later. They had just opened their doors, and they didn't have a big collection of people yet. So I'm thinking, oh, no, did I spend money foolishly? So I knocked on his door. He probably thought I was trying to get my money back, and I said, hey, what's the story with you, pal? We had such a fun interview, and I looked in the G-book, and I didn't see you. What's the story? And he said, I'm not supposed to ask out my members. And I said, well,
00:17:40
Speaker
What would you do if one of your members asked you out? And he said, if she was cute, I'd probably go. I said, come on, let's go. And five weeks later, we got engaged. Five months later, we got married. And two months later, we got pregnant with the boy who's turning 32 in two days. And the other one came shortly thereafter. Gil says it's because he has industrial strength sperm. That's why we got pregnant. I love that story so much, Julie. I think it's really sweet. It's amazing. Well, you know, it's interesting, Scott, because as I was sitting there at Gil Furman's desk,
00:18:09
Speaker
thinking about that, buying that membership, spending more money than I expected I would have to spend for this. I was thinking, what a great job this would be. I could do this job. I could talk to people about love and dating and romance and sex all day long.
00:18:25
Speaker
And eventually I gave up my job when I was eight months pregnant with our first boy and started working for my husband. He called me the very next day. He said, get your pregnant butt in here. I got a whole lobby full of people and I don't have enough sales reps. Get in here. I need to sell, I need to put you in on an appointment. So I'm like, I don't know the first thing about selling a dating service membership. He said, don't worry, we're just going to send you in with all the girls who want marriage and babies and you're going to walk in there with your big old belly and you're going to close every deal there is.
00:18:53
Speaker
That's what happened. I believe it. So I worked for him for a long time doing kind of traditional dating service model. And there was a lot of it that grossed me out. The high pressure sales, the fact that they would only introduce paying clients to other paying clients. And if you walked in and I was sitting with you interviewing you and I fell in love with you, but you're like, not ready to sign up yet. Maybe next month or I got to think about it. That would be the end that could ever introduce you.
00:19:20
Speaker
to the people in the program and women are dying to meet men like you. It really hurt me. So when I started my own company 20 years ago, that was the first thing I handled. My web developer and I began building a database where whether somebody spent money or not was immaterial. It didn't matter. If you're a great guy, I want you in the community. If you're a wonderful woman, I want you in the community. Some people are going to do coaching consultations. Some people are going to want me to serve them as matchmaking clients.
00:19:50
Speaker
a lot are not interested in spending that money, but I can match them to my clients. So altogether we've been counting and we've seen 1300 couples stick together in the 33 years that we've done this work. That's an impressive number. I love that story. So is the company you and your husband Gil, was it Great Expectations? Is that right? Great Expectations was my husband's company. He was a franchisee. The franchisor was at
00:20:19
Speaker
interesting, colorful guy named Jeffrey Ullman, who was in Los Angeles. Now he's in Colorado. And I've worked for him in various capacities through the years. He's a live wire. And so it's really been fun. And I've loved having my own company where I can literally design it the way I want and make it as service oriented as I want. And again, that's juliefermin.com everybody. Thank you, Scott. Thank you.
00:20:44
Speaker
OK, so I there's a lot that I want to dig into in there. I mean, I so look, I've been nerding out about modern dating and talking to people about it and sort of getting people's perspectives and talking to people who I've talked to other matchmakers. So I love just hearing different perspectives on how this works, because I think for a lot of people, especially a lot of guys these days, it can just feel like it's just easy to get completely lost and not understand how any of this is supposed to work for anyone.
Feminism and Relationship Dynamics
00:21:11
Speaker
The I guess what I wanted to dig in
00:21:14
Speaker
with you about some more if you'd be interested. Culture has changed. In the past 20, 30 years, culture has changed. Feminism, I'm a big lefty McLefty pants guy. I'm a big fan of feminism.
00:21:29
Speaker
um uh you know then that means a variety of things and we can dig in on that if we want to but like i think it's safe to say that feminism has changed culture a lot especially in the states right yes it's caused some problems i i want to i want to dig in on it i want to i want to hear i want to hear about that well people are complaining these days about especially women are complaining that men are far less masculine than they used to be they want to be like man up and be tougher and yet
00:21:59
Speaker
At the same time, they're asking for men to be communicative and spiritual and highly evolved and have a lot of, you know, emotional intelligence. They want the elevator to come up above the third floor so that they can engage at that higher level of consciousness. So you can't have both, you know, it doesn't happen that way. So I think the real secret is for all of us, both men and women, to get really good at that little toggle switch.
00:22:27
Speaker
Women are getting pretty good at it if they're paying attention. So she could be tough in the office. She could be a trial attorney. She could be a capable, competent, tough woman in the office. But does she know how to shift into feminine gear at the end of the day? And it's one of the things I've helped women do. I mean, literally, I'll have them change clothes. I'll have them change their underwear. I'll have them change their little
00:22:55
Speaker
because you don't want to show up on a date looking like a trial attorney. And if we want our guys to be masculine, let's say it this way. The more masculine we hope our guy will be, the more feminine we need to be in order to create the compliment. The problem with today's modern day woman is very often she's looking for what we call her clone, and she could be looking, she should be looking for her compliment. If she's high powered,
00:23:25
Speaker
and actually pretty masculine, she's not gonna attract the alpha male. She thinks that she needs a guy who's even bigger and stronger and more successful than she is. Why? So that she can feel feminine. And whether she feels feminine or not has nothing to do with how tall he is, how much money he makes. She thinks her success intimidates him. And the truth of it is, it's how we're being about our success that either sits just fine with a guy
00:23:55
Speaker
or gives them the sense that we're entitled, we have expectations, and he better, you know, take us to the Four Seasons if that's where we like to go. He better fly first class. I hear this stuff all the time from women. Once they've achieved a certain level of success financially, they expect to always do high-end everything. So I say to them, great, how much of that are you happy to pay for? And they get real quiet. And the guys tell me,
00:24:25
Speaker
Well, why is it that all these women are so independent and they're so self-sufficient until they have a boyfriend and then they just expect that I'm going to pick up all of those big expenses because she wants to be the feminine energy in the relationship, even though he says she's bossing them around all the time. I mean, it's just, that's what's happened. We've gotten so strong and it's fine to be strong, but we got to work on our softer side as well instead of always be talking.
00:24:55
Speaker
I absolutely hear you. And of course, we're speaking in generalizations here. Every person is unique and all that kind of stuff. And the uniqueness and... Well, let's talk about that. Do you think it's been... I would guess that it's maybe been the case that what someone is looking for in a relationship over the past 20, 30 years has loosened up a bit that you might have
00:25:17
Speaker
men who are maybe looking for something different in a relationship than maybe guys were 20, 30 years ago, or I could be wrong. But I would feel like maybe I feel like there's more room for me to be more or less quote unquote masculine and that sometimes I meet someone while I'm dating or in the world and
00:25:37
Speaker
I feel like I've got a little more wiggle room to be like, okay, this person actually doesn't need me to be quote unquote masculine all the time. She's actually more interested in more of my quote unquote feminine side or whatever. And I could be wrong about this, but do you think- I am really happy to hear you say that. If you're experiencing that as a single guy out there in the world, that's good news. We need to do more of that.
00:26:00
Speaker
Do you think we have, I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, do you feel like men and women feel now a little more wiggle room in terms of what they can bring and what they can look for than they have
Views on Polyamory and Communication
00:26:11
Speaker
in the past? I think so. But it's one of my favorite colleagues is Alison Armstrong, and she will often reference what she calls a Cinderella grows up moment. Okay. If we want all these privileges,
00:26:30
Speaker
It comes with some responsibility to can't have everything. Like if a woman wants to have a guy who's super, super, super strong and successful and competent, well, guess what comes on the other side of that? He might not be available as much to help with the kids. He might be on the road a lot. He might have board meetings. He might be working 70 hours a week. That goes with it. You know, it's just interesting. Like a guy might want a woman who's really feminine.
00:26:56
Speaker
and lets him lead, but she might have the expectation that he's gonna cover all the big expenses. She wants to be a traditional woman. I had a woman like that on the phone yesterday who's very comfortable being a traditional woman and really wants a guy to be a traditional guy. And she said she can't find the traditional men anymore. I know that they exist, but I think the world is more accepting of every version of what we're talking about.
00:27:24
Speaker
I will say something about polyamory. I'm not a fan. I am not a fan. Let's get into it. Not a fan because of the effects of oxytocin. You know what oxytocin is? It's the bonding hormone. It's the same hormone that rushes through our body when we are nursing our children. And it rushes through our body in a huge way when we are intimate.
00:27:49
Speaker
a little bit with hugging and kissing and all that, but sex, oh my God, and if you have a thimbleful, we have a gallonful. Men and women, you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We think that we can handle it, that we can have casual sex. I find very few women can, and it's not her fault. It's not that she doesn't want to be able to be lighthearted about it, but these hormones raging in her body, bonding her to the man she just had sex with.
00:28:17
Speaker
Whether she wants to admit it or not, it's happening. So if I determine that somebody is polyamorous, I can't work with them. People coming to me want a singular relationship. They don't want to be sharing their guy with five other women. They don't. I mean, I have to say I've never tried
00:28:39
Speaker
ethical non-monogamy or polyamory. I've definitely, I lived in San Francisco. I'm in LA now. I've definitely like encountered people who are into that kind of thing. And I think my take on it has always been like, seems like it's working for you. Thumbs up. I'm not going to tell anybody else how to live their life, you know, but I know for me, I don't know. I just, I just, I don't know if it's because I'm true. I don't know why, but that's just. I have one caveat. I have one caveat. I think it's okay every now and then to have a Club Med moment.
00:29:09
Speaker
You're on vacation. You're never going to see each other again. You might as well have some fun. Just be careful. I'm not a prude, but I do highly recommend that people keep their pants on until they've had a conversation about what sex means to them, about what their dating purpose is. Why are they dating? Are they just having fun meeting some great people? Are they looking for a singular relationship? Are they looking for lifelong love?
00:29:36
Speaker
Do they want to make babies be upfront about it? And then it won't be so difficult. The other thing that people should just be really upfront about and practice using the words, practice finding the words, the nice guy, but the nice girl, but I'm so glad we met today, Scott. I don't think we got a romance thing happening, but I just love who you are. Let's stay friendly rather than just pretending that you're going to get together again and ghosting the guy or something.
00:30:03
Speaker
Have the words. Say the words. This isn't a romance, is it? I think we're meant to be friends. We're going to be business colleagues, but I don't think there's a romance going on here. It's the most personal thing in the world, but it's not really personal. It's just what is. Yeah. I'm a big, big fan of communication, and I don't mean to say that it's an easy thing. I think it takes courage, especially in the moment. I think it does take
00:30:26
Speaker
that moment of like, okay, I'm gonna say something that maybe is gonna make this person unhappy with me, but I've gotta communicate. I'm a big advocate for that. And in advocating for that, I just also want to acknowledge that I think it can be hard. It really can take courage. And I think especially for guys, I think, well, I can speak from a guy's perspective, because I'm a guy, right?
00:30:52
Speaker
I do think we can get better about it. I think we can get better about talking to each other about what's going on. But yeah, as you say, I think we can get better at just being clear with the lady across the table, how the date's going, what the connection feels like, just letting them know like where we are. I think that's also in a way, I think it projects confidence, you know, just saying like, Hey, I'm gonna put my cards on the table here, you know. And if you say it, then you've
00:31:17
Speaker
Got the new friendship, the new connection put in a particular category. You're like, okay, we're going to be in friend zone. That means if I'm having a fun party and I want to invite some great people, I'm going to invite you because that's what we call recycling for the sisterhood. You want to have friends that are single and I want women to have a posse. I want guys to have single friends. I love it when guys are part of a men's group.
00:31:44
Speaker
so that they don't have to wait for a woman to be open. Maybe they want to talk about the woman with some guys. I mean, it's really a great thing. Are you part of a men's group, or have you ever been? It's funny you should say that. I'm not yet, but I'm looking for one. As I've said several times in this podcast, I'm a big fan of therapy, and I've been talking to my therapist about it. He's a great guy, and yeah, it's something we've talked about, and I'm in a new city, and I think it is something that
00:32:13
Speaker
I'm hunting for, you know, you want to find the right people, right? Um, but it is something that's definitely, I think on my radar, it's something that would be really healthy for me. Yeah. Um, okay. If we can, I, I,
00:32:28
Speaker
I am super again, I'm interested in just like your depth of experience on this. I have this theory that so many things are making modern dating weird right now. And one of those I want to keep harping on this for a little bit is feminism. I think feminism has again been doing a lot of really important amazing work and changing culture, changing what women are allowed to do, changing what women are expected to do.
00:32:52
Speaker
My pet theory on this is kind of that the bar has been moving and things have been shifting for women. And I think to a large extent for a lot of men, even well-meaning men who are thumbs up pro-equality, guys who are, I would say, people who are
00:33:12
Speaker
You know, well, I don't know guy pro equality feminist guys, whatever on that spectrum. These guys have said great feminism sounds great. Let's let women do jobs. Let's let women, you know, contribute. Let's let women achieve their dreams. And, and we've kind of said all of those things, but we never really wrapped our heads around what that would mean for us. We've never really wrapped. We didn't really come to terms with how much.
00:33:42
Speaker
women were doing for our fathers and grandfathers to make their lifestyles possible, if that makes sense. Right. So I think a lot of guys sort of feel like in life, their approach to romance is do life, get a decent paying job, be a law abiding citizen, be a provider, be a protector. And if you do that, you ought to be able to find somebody who's going to
00:34:10
Speaker
meet a lot of your emotional needs. You're going to find a partner who's going to take care of a lot of those emotional needs that I think we traditionally looked to women to provide. And maybe that client, that woman who's looking to be a more traditional partner, maybe that's the kind of relationship she's looking for. But I think more and more, we get a lot of guys who kind of haven't really clocked that
00:34:34
Speaker
Like, what we need to bring to a relationship has kind of changed, I think, is my theory. Does that make sense to you? How do you feel about that? I'm curious.
Evolving Roles in Relationships
00:34:44
Speaker
It seems like there are certain elements of femininity that men are missing or lacking and wish that there was more of, like there was in the old days with Ward and June Cleaver. Is it the baking of the cookies? Is it that she's dressed up and looks like a woman?
00:35:04
Speaker
that she's always got the house in order? Or is it that she's got the space to listen, to be there for you, to be your support network? Because when a woman's got a 50, 60 hour a week job, she doesn't have the bandwidth to nurture her spouse in that way. And so I think men are probably a little lonely. Their women are busy with other things. It's sad.
00:35:30
Speaker
It is, it is. And I guess I, I'm curious or a piece of why I fired up this little passion project podcast and a question that I kind of am often asking myself is like, how do we move that needle? Like how do we get more men to adjust a little bit and have the capacity to bring something else to the table in a relationship? And also I think have the capacity to
00:35:59
Speaker
Seek a lot of that. I think traditionally men Got a lot of fulfillment got a lot of I'm gonna use the word intimacy got a lot of intimacy out of only their partner Where women are better at getting intimacy from friends and community, right? They're a little more social a little more comfortable talking about I think vulnerable things and I think that's important that helps you feel seen it helps you be a part of a community and and I think that
00:36:29
Speaker
men traditionally have not been so great at that. I think men have sort of looked to their wives. And I'll say, I think this was the case with my ex-wife, who's a wonderful woman. But I think I really, without even really thinking about it, looked to her to maintain a lot of our social bonds, right? And when that relationship
00:36:51
Speaker
We tried as hard as we could, but when that relationship didn't work out, I ended up losing a whole lot of my social network because she was the one that was putting in the work, right? Even though she worked a full-time job, I mean, she probably worked harder than I did at her day job, right? But I kind of fell into that habit, that trap, because that I think was like sort of the template or like my idea of what a man was in a relationship. Does that make sense? Yes, completely. And so a lot of guys will lose their social network when a relationship falls apart.
00:37:21
Speaker
It happens sometimes with women too. There was this woman who said the same thing to me that she lost all of her friends when she got divorced from her husband because she just sort of folded into his life. And that's what she thought a feminine woman would do. Just embrace his family, embrace his friends. But then things went south and she ended up all by herself and she had no network. So she took up the game of golf and
00:37:49
Speaker
I met her on the golf course. I'm not a golfer, but I sponsor golf tournaments a lot. Why? Because it's a great place to meet men. So and that's why she picked up golf. So she said, Okay, I might as well put myself in what Dr. Phil calls a target rich environment. So she takes some lessons just enough to get to do some charity golf tournaments. And you do not need to be good at golf to do charity golf tournaments. Everybody sucks. Everybody's just having beer. It doesn't matter.
00:38:17
Speaker
And so she gets paired with this guy and she has such a great time all day there together. And they're having a great time. She's like, oh, Lord, I think I got myself a boyfriend. I think he likes me. He's going to ask me out. End of the day, he doesn't. Everybody's packing up their clubs. A great day. See you later. And she's like, wow. And so she's driving around looking to see if she can see him in the parking lot. And she eventually does. He's putting his clubs in in his trunk and she does what I'm telling women to do.
00:38:45
Speaker
she lowered her window and she said, aren't you going to ask me out? And they're married with two children now. I love that. I mean, we got to do it because so many women are strong and they have been in many cases unkind to men. We, those of us who are not unkind need to pick up the slack and give the guy a
00:39:13
Speaker
that we'd be open to his invitation. We need to get better at flirting. We call it turning the cab light on. Eye contact. Smiling at you, we look away, we look back, then you know the smile's for you, don't you?
00:39:27
Speaker
And then you know, I'm a warm person to approach because we would rather have you come up to us than us like, Oh, nice to see you here at the coffee shop. I'm a very forward girl. I thought I'd just sit down right here and talk to you. We want you to come up to us, but we have to give you the signal that we're safe. And then she should do something along the lines of so fun to meet you. Here's how to find me and give you her card. And it might be a calling card that doesn't have her last name on it.
00:39:55
Speaker
So you can't Google her, but you do have a way. You can also say, if you're a woman, you can say, aren't you going to ask me out? If you called me for a cup of coffee, Scott, I'd probably say yes. Just so you know, you got to be playful. Can we just bring some fun back to dating, for goodness sake? Right.
00:40:14
Speaker
So I call this the feminist handkerchief drop. I talk to a lot of women, especially in San Francisco, and women, and they'll say, men just don't approach anymore, like men just won't, won't talk to you in the wild. And I definitely never ever ever want to blame the women here. I honestly I kind of want to blame the pandemic and dating apps here because I think
00:40:32
Speaker
I think we were all locked up for a couple of years there, and it feels more and more like if you want to meet somebody, the place to do it is on your phone, which drives me up the wall. So I call this the feminist handkerchief drop, and I'm talking about exactly the same thing you are. Maybe it doesn't even need to be feminist, right? But just something that you can do. I think for ladies, it's a huge opportunity. If there's any small thing you can do,
00:40:56
Speaker
that any small gesture that makes clear that you might be okay if this person wanted to momentarily encounter your personal space, right? Just something that says, you can talk to me if you want to, right? It can be eye contact. It can be like asking somebody if they know where the napkins are at the cafe. It can be, hey, can you watch my laptop for a second? I got to use the ladies room. I think for a lot of women,
00:41:23
Speaker
that, Julie, you're an amazing person. You have that energy. I think for a lot of women, that moment of like, do you want to ask me out? That feels like a lot to a lot of women is my guess. But somebody's got to pick up the slack. Yeah. You know, somebody's got to do it. Yeah. I think my and, you know, hey, wherever you are, whatever you've got, whatever your energy level, your comfort level is, I think, I think, yeah, we're both encouraging you to go for it. A gentle listener.
00:41:53
Speaker
Oh, but yeah, there definitely is some slack, right? There definitely is in this moment in dating culture, there is
00:42:02
Speaker
And I don't want to point too much at the Me Too movement. I think there are some men who feel like, oh, I can't talk to a woman because then she's going to accuse me of something horrible. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for that because I'm like, you know what? If you don't want to get accused of doing something horrible, try not being a dick.
Flirting and Engagement Tips
00:42:19
Speaker
Just be a nice guy. Keep your dick in your pants, and then you can't get accused of it.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, like just if you don't want anyone to say that you're a jerk, don't be a jerk. Like there's ways to do it, you know? But there is slack there. It does take, I don't want to minimize that. It does take talent and courage. And I think for somebody who feels really raw at it and feels like they have no experience talking to somebody who they might find cute, you're gonna stumble a few times. I know I did. It's really simple. Flirting is,
00:42:52
Speaker
My friend Susan Raben wrote books about it back in the day, and she calls flirting acting amorously without serious intent. And the first initial flirt is either a question, a comment, or a compliment. Those glasses are great on you, Scott. I love those glasses. We're sitting in a coffee shop, and I say, ooh, I like the little tortoise shell in your glasses. That's really great. Or the colored blue looks good on you. You say something cute.
00:43:21
Speaker
Or you make a comment about, oh my gosh, can you believe there's hail coming down in August? You know, whatever the thing is. And then if you have your little card, you can say, it's nice to bump into you. Here's how to find me. But this is the ultimate tool. I just coached my boot camp students in doing that this week, which is you say to somebody, listen,
00:43:44
Speaker
I had a great time talking to you. Here's how to find me. And my friends and I plan these really fun events. If you happen to be single, we'll invite you. How about that? Everybody in my bootcamp is planning an event and getting calling cards and they have to populate the event. And they're excited about it. Some of them are doing it together. There's going to be a group of girls in LA doing it together.
00:44:09
Speaker
And it forces you to be warm and friendly out there because you've got an event coming up and you want that cute guy Scott at your event. Go ahead and flirt with him. Talk to him. Find out if he wants to come to your party. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he's not attracted to you, but if he knows there's going to be five other women there, you might just want to come. See how that works. That sounds great. Wait a second. I wanted to get on this. So, so, so you do these boot camps, which I assume are virtual. Yes.
00:44:36
Speaker
And people can sign up and you just kind of go through strategies for nine video models, modules that I created covering everything important in modern day dating. And it's over 60 days because it's really a transformational journey where we're building our capacity for communicating, for flirting,
00:44:59
Speaker
How are we going to articulate who we are? What kind of photos are we going to use? What are we going to say? What do we say in the little chat messages? We studied a lot of Mimi Winsberg's book, Speaking in Thumbs. Oh, I haven't read that. That was in the communication model. And it's all about what we can learn about ourselves and about other people through our text messages. Just brilliant.
00:45:24
Speaker
So all of that we do. And then I challenge everybody to not only, you know, do a proactive strategy, like working with a matchmaker, or at least getting registered with the matchmaker, maybe online dating, maybe you're putting pulling together a posse of people that you can go out and do things with. I want single girls to have single girlfriends, and I want single guys to have single guy friends. So you can find something to do. And you can send a message out to three or four of your friends and say, hey,
00:45:54
Speaker
There's great live music happening tonight in West Hollywood. Who wants to go? And you be the one instead of waiting for somebody else to put something on the calendar. It's all about personal responsibility to make your love life, your dating life and your social life, everything you want it to be instead of waiting for somebody else to do it for you.
00:46:18
Speaker
I love that. I love that you've put so much time and effort and expertise and talent into trying to sort of crack this or trying to approach this problem of kind of connection. A lot of us coaches got into what it is that we're doing because of the pain that we had. There was nothing more painful to me than trying to find my partner and not knowing why I couldn't do it. What was I doing wrong?
00:46:48
Speaker
And it wasn't until I hired a coach that I loved, he was a good friend of mine. He was my running partner when I lived in Boston and I loved his marriage to his wife. And I thought, I want a marriage like that. So I hired him to be my dating coach. He was a business management consultant from Columbia, South America, real colorful guy. And he just put it right out there and told me all the things I was doing wrong. Like why did I insist that my guy earn more than me? Why?
00:47:16
Speaker
Why did I insist that he had to be Christian or spiritual? Why not Jewish? I ended up marrying a Jewish guy. Great. Raised our kids Jewish. Now I know both worlds. It's wonderful. He just helped me broaden my perspective. And some of those target things, like when we're doing online dating and the girl says, well, he has to be six feet or taller. Why? That's only 13 percent of the population. Why does that matter?
00:47:43
Speaker
There needs to be somebody calling us out on that stuff, because we hear other people. Some people say, don't introduce me to anybody who voted for Joe Biden. Don't introduce me to anybody who voted for Donald Trump. I'm going to ask people who they voted for, and neither should you. Usually, there's not too many good choices, right? So it's more important to talk about the values that you have, the policies that matter to you, rather than do they vote this way or that way. It's not a fair question.
00:48:13
Speaker
So we have to really think how it is that we're setting our parameters. And sometimes we set them in such a challenging way that we're really safe because nobody makes the cut. That's the safest way to date. Yeah, it's just to not. OK, you said so many things there that I'm interested in.
00:48:32
Speaker
I mean, the polarization thing, the political polarization thing, and I want to kind of tie this into modern dating because we've been talking a theme here. We've been talking about how dating has changed over the years. I have this pet theory and I would love to hear your take on it. I think the internet and really Tinder, if I had to put my finger on one thing that was kind of the
00:48:57
Speaker
I don't know, the biggest thing that really moved the needle here. I think it was Tinder, but dating apps in general.
00:49:05
Speaker
and the internet. We're talking about polarization here. I'm going to tie this together. I think social media, discourse around dating, a lot of us, especially guys, go to the internet for information on how we should date. Oftentimes, we can't talk to our friends about it because either they're not single or because we're embarrassed. There's that thing you mentioned earlier. There's that moment where you're like, oh, no, someone's going to think I'm a loser if they see me trying to find someone. It can be really
00:49:35
Speaker
So you go online to find information about dating. But the modern information world that we have now, we're talking about politics and stuff, I think social media has really made us polarized politically. That's a whole other rabbit hole. We don't have to argue about that at all. But we're talking about that at all. But I think even for dating,
00:50:00
Speaker
I think modern social media has polarized us in terms of what's happening in the dating world, and I could be wrong about this, but I think a lot of people are more afraid or more upset about what dating is like because those controversial and upsetting opinions about dating are the ones that our social media feeds show us because those are the ones that get the clicks.
00:50:28
Speaker
And so you're so right, Scott. Does it make sense? Oh, it does. And in preparation, all the research that I did for my bootcamp, I really dug into a whole lot of information about online dating, the algorithms and how it's
Influence of Dating Apps on Perception
00:50:43
Speaker
actually done. It is mortifying how it's actually done. The online dating apps are designed to make money.
00:50:52
Speaker
like every business is. And they want you to stay on the apps. They don't actually want you to pair off because then you they lose two customers. So what they do is they flood you with the most popular people. Why? Because the most popular people, you know, the people who have all those lovely qualities that everybody's wanting either the girl's gorgeous or the guy's good looking and tall and rich, whatever. They
00:51:21
Speaker
They feed those people at the top. They keep getting presented over and over again. Why? Because those are the people that get people to keep paying. And when your membership's just about up the week prior, you start getting a lot of interesting people because they want you to stay on this site. So it becomes a popularity contest. And the real danger there is that those people who are getting all the attention become what I call untouchable. They don't say yes to anybody.
00:51:49
Speaker
They're the people who end up being polyamorous. They think they're so hot because they keep being selected by so many people. And their egos get huge. And they end up being far less desirable because they've lost the capacity to be a real human. They think they're better than everyone else. And a lot of it's caused by the way these algorithms are designed. It's really complex, and it's really ugly.
00:52:15
Speaker
I buy it. I think of dating apps as kind of a subset of social media, like the algorithm is manipulating who you see, what you perceive about what's out there. And the app itself is really designed just to get you back in there, right? It's giving you little numbers that says, hey, somebody likes you. It's not telling you this person is a great match for you. It's not doing any work to say, we think the two of you are going to get along great. It's telling you,
00:52:42
Speaker
one, two, three, ninety nine plus nine thousand people like you. And that number is meant to sort of make us feel better. But really, if you're a monogamous person who's out there looking for that person, you're not looking for nine thousand people. You're looking for the one. Here's what I like to share with people. I want them to work all the different avenues. So, sure, work your Facebook, LinkedIn, those contacts, always being aware of who might be worth connecting with.
00:53:12
Speaker
and follow up and set those appointments, set those dates, but also get good at magnetizing the right people toward us. I call that magnetizing the art of social magnetism. I want people to get good at that and sticky. I'm so fun to meet you, Scott. Here's how to find me. Get good at that. And then also, if you're doing the online sites, like my mother said, you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all.
00:53:40
Speaker
Don't even bother to do the online sites if you're not going to have good photos that are this year's version of you. If you're going to have them use the filters and everything so that you don't even look like yourself on the date. No, don't even do it that way. It's muddying up the waters. It's just time to grow up, people.
00:54:00
Speaker
Well, I mean, in the defense, there are so many people on the apps and there are so many people who meet their partner on the apps. But my best guess is that that is just by virtue of the fact that it's so easy to get on there. It's right there on our phone. We were all locked up for two years during COVID.
00:54:19
Speaker
or however long. And it really does feel like that's where all the single people are, right? When you're looking at your phone, it can, I should say, it can feel like that's what you're supposed to do, right? I would say about a third of the people that I talk with, and I probably have eight or 10 conversations six days a week, about a third of them are not doing any of the online dating at all. They're just grossed out by it and the catfishing,
00:54:48
Speaker
Um, the fake profiles, all of that, it just turns them off. And so they're just not doing it. They're, they're working their magic in other ways. And I think that's actually a good thing. Even split men and women, about a third, more women, a lot of women are turned off. Actually, you know what? That's not true. I'd say about half and half, half of the men that have the people who've told me they're not doing online dating at all are men. It's really hard for the young guys. And it's really hard for the older women, demographics,
00:55:18
Speaker
are not fair. There's nothing fair about dating. And the young guys are really struggling. They're having less sex than any generation in history. And yet there's more porn happening, which is really
Challenges for Younger Generations
00:55:31
Speaker
bad. And porn is really bad for long term sexual health. It really messes people up. So all of this is happening because we're afraid to talk to each other. We'd rather
00:55:44
Speaker
communicate through our stupid phones than actually talk with each other and have courageous, compassionate communication. I agree. I definitely agree. But we're doing it right now. We're doing our best. Yeah. Can I go back? One thing that you said that I'm curious about. You mentioned these untouchable people, these folks who are getting all the attention.
00:56:11
Speaker
When I initially started this podcast, it was because I have lovely, lovely guy friends. I love my guy friends so much. They're some of my most consistent listeners. But even for me, who's like a guy who has a hard time, or I try to work on having these kinds of vulnerable conversations with my guy friends, it can be hard for me. But as I've had these conversations, I've had people, men and women, tell me, and this is kind of a humble brag here, but I've had folks tell me like, Scott, if it's hard for you,
00:56:41
Speaker
it's gotta be hard for all of us, right? I've had people tell me like, oh, I've heard the rumors that like 10% of guys get all the attention on the apps. Scott, you must be one of those guys. And like, I'm here to tell you I am not. Like I do not have like a flood of people trying to chow me. So you sort of mentioned these like, these, these,
00:57:00
Speaker
Untouchable people have you in your you know in your career in matchmaking while the apps are happening Have you have you bumped into these people? How do you know? Really? I just watched their behavior. I like to watch people's behavior. So How do they respond? Are they responsive when I reach out to them? Are they courteous? Are they kind if they set an appointment? Do they show up for that appointment? Are they participating? Do they listen well?
00:57:30
Speaker
And then when we do that initial consultation that costs $295, that's how I check their picker. I do a search in advance. We're looking at these people together. It's a peek behind the matchmaker's curtain. That's where it all shows up because I can see if somebody's going, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Just instantly dismissing somebody based on just initial visual impression.
00:57:57
Speaker
It's bad when a guy does it. It's really bad when a girl does it because we have a far better ability to develop attraction for you guys over time. You guys are visual. And if you if you find stick skinny women attractive, you're probably not going to go for the one who's a size 14 curvy girl. It's just the way it is. We don't like it as women, but we got to work with it. So when somebody's that fussy and that picky and they're only going to go for what I call the usual suspects,
00:58:27
Speaker
That's a recipe for disaster. I will not take that person on as a client because I know too much. The usual suspects are not best equipped for relationship. They're not the people who have the best communication skills, who are tenacious, who have really good work ethic, all that. You know, they're just sort of entitled because they've been beautiful and rich and successful and powerful and they've gotten pretty much whatever they wanted all their life. Those people.
00:58:55
Speaker
are not the people that you want to marry and spend a whole life with because they've gotten spoiled. It's really sad. You feel like you see, again, even split men and women, folks who kind of fall into that category. It's the same thing. The people who are getting all the attention are getting spoiled and they're not finding relationship. And if they do, they're short-lived relationship because they're accustomed to having everything their way.
00:59:24
Speaker
and they haven't developed the muscles that we need to make relationships stick. It's really complex, and it kind of increases on itself. It's only getting worse. You know, I'm thinking of two men right now. They both live in Los Angeles, and any time I'm doing a search for a woman who's very attractive, she's at the top of her game, I'll tend to want to sprinkle in a few of these people in the search,
00:59:51
Speaker
And with men, I'll do the same thing, sprinkle in a couple of the Barbie types that they're probably going to totally go for. But if that's the only type of person they go for, then I know they should not hire a matchmaker. They're kind of beyond help if they're that superficial about what they're really looking for. You know, you think about the people who look the best. Well, they spend a lot of time looking good, don't they? They spend a lot of money on it. Yeah.
01:00:20
Speaker
striking as she walks down Hollywood Boulevard, whatever it is. She takes a lot of maintenance. And so guys will say to me, well, I wonder when this is beautiful.
01:00:30
Speaker
but not high maintenance and can get ready in 10 minutes and like, okay, you can't have it all, dude. What do you want? Yeah. So for transparency, for our, our lovely listeners, I did one of these interview, one of these screening calls with you recently. Was I, am I bad? Am I, where am I on that scale? It was like, no, you're fully manageable because you're a real person looking for real qualities. You're not just going for, you know, the girl who could be the runway model,
01:01:00
Speaker
the girl who's gonna be Miss USA, come on. Those- Well, I'm comforted to hear that. Yeah. No, you're reasonable. I guess, how do you know? Sometimes I think, and if you have time, I know we're over time here. If we can do just like one more topic here. Sure.
01:01:15
Speaker
Right. Like sometimes I feel like it's hard to know if the dating apps have kind of skewed my perception of what I ought to be looking for. Right. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yes. And so I guess that's how. Because they keep sending the popular beautiful people to you. Right. You think that everybody looks like that. Well, wouldn't it be nice to see a broader range of people?
01:01:44
Speaker
They just do not have our best interests at heart. They just don't. So it's not bad to do it, but you gotta do it with a little bit of a wry smile and you gotta know that it's not really designed to really serve you. It's more designed to keep you coming back for more like a trained rat in a maze.
Social Media's Role in Dating Perceptions
01:02:05
Speaker
I mean, it's addictive. It is literally training you like Pavlov, you know? Because you get those little doses of dopamine.
01:02:14
Speaker
And they know it. And that's why they're doing it. And they keep, you know, you've been liked. We got to like the same thing with Instagram, with Facebook, TikTok. It's all designed to hook us in. And it's not healthy. I love it when I get to talk to a family that just doesn't do tech. They just raise their children without tech. You know, maybe they use their computers for school or whatever, but no, none of the social media.
01:02:43
Speaker
They do board games together. They go on hikes. They climb mountains together. They do gardens together. They find things to do that are not just sitting in a room with everybody on their devices. It's not a good way for us to live.
01:02:56
Speaker
So quick side plug for something totally unrelated, but there's a podcast called Your Undivided Attention by this number of people, but one guy, Tristan Harris, who had something called the Center for Humane Technology. And something interesting that they were poured on often is that the people who work at these tech companies are often those families. If you work for one of these big social media companies, they do not let their children use social media, which is really telling. Yeah. What does that tell you? They know too much.
01:03:27
Speaker
Or at least, at the very least, they're not taking the risk. They think it's dangerous enough that they're not willing to risk it with their own kids. I don't know. Is there anything else?
01:03:41
Speaker
So, I mean, it sounds like the answer, I mean, so if I ask you about like, how is, how have the apps, how have dating apps impacted modern dating? It sounds like it's made us kind of picky and it's gotten us addicted to our phones and it's kind of pulled us away from actually connecting with each other. Is there anything else you'd add to that? It's so well said. Yeah, that's what's happened. That's really what's happened. It has been detrimental in so many ways.
Balancing Online and Real-Life Dating
01:04:09
Speaker
And yet I have to balance it out
01:04:12
Speaker
As you do with all the people we know who found love, who found a lifelong partner using the apps. So I'm conflicted about it. And I don't tell people not to do it. I don't advise them against it. I just say, limit your exposure. Don't spend more than a half an hour a day.
01:04:30
Speaker
checking these sites, make sure that you're balancing it out with being outside, reading a book, doing things that human beings used to do for a well-rounded life as opposed to just staring at a screen all day long. It's just not healthy. Yeah, I agree. I very much agree. Well, Julie Furman, is there anything else that you wanted to chat about or plug or mention here?
01:04:57
Speaker
I'm just really happy to have this chance to talk with your people. And I love having the chance to share you with my people. So keep doing this podcast. It's very important. And I'm glad to have a chance to contribute. Thanks for having me.
01:05:10
Speaker
Thank you, thank you for being on. If you liked what you heard on this, again, go check out juliefermin.com, and she's got a podcast too, Cupid's Coach. I've been listening and I definitely recommend it. Yeah, Julie Fermin, thank you so much. All right, I'll see you soon, Scott. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you, thank you. Bye.
01:05:33
Speaker
I super hope you enjoyed that conversation with Julie Furman. Again, I've said it like four times, but juliefurman.com. I always like plugging in folks that come on the show. Check out our podcast, Cupid's Coach, and Julie Furman. This is J-U-L-I-E, Julie, F-E-R-M-A-N.com. You can check out all the stuff that she does just at our website.
01:05:59
Speaker
As always, if you want to reach out to me, the best place to do that right now is Instagram at wish you all the best pod. I'm always happy to hear from folks and love to know what you think and what you like, what you don't like, all that kind of stuff.
01:06:15
Speaker
And I hope you I hope you enjoyed the episode. Hope you found it useful And yeah, I had a lot of fun and a lot of fun talking to Julie. We could have talked for another hour easily And maybe I'll have her own again. We'll talk about some different topics But yeah, I hope you I hope you enjoyed that talk as much as I did and yeah, that's what I got until next time take care and Yeah, I'll catch you soon. Bye