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Mark Rosenfeld - Beating the Odds of Modern Dating
53 Plays1 year ago
Mark Rosenfeld is Australia's Dating & Relationship Coach for Women. His book is Make Him Yours - Beating the Odds of Modern Dating. Check out his YouTube stuff! I really enjoyed this one, I think there are certainly things we see a little differently, but I enjoyed our talk and - as I often do - I hope I can find a way to chat with Mark again in the future!
music - "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch -https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Wish You All the Best' and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:15
Speaker
And welcome back to Wish You All the Best, a personal podcast about modern dating. I'm Scott Simmons. Thank you for joining. My guest for this episode is a fella named Mark Rosenfeld. I was really flattered and excited when I was able to contact Mark.
00:00:36
Speaker
and he wanted to come on. He's got a much, much bigger platform than I do. He's been doing this a long time and he's really great at it. He's got a book. That book is called Make Him Yours, Beating the Odds of Modern Dating. It's aimed mostly at women. In my conversation with him, I found that he had a lot of great advice for men as well.
Navigating Perspectives in Dating Discussions
00:00:58
Speaker
And I really liked our talk. The cool thing, one cool thing about Mark, my conversation with Mark, he, I think he would describe himself as kind of like culture release center. And I think he correctly describes me as like sort of culture really left. I think this stuff does kind of connect to, you know, the whole big contentious polarized politics thing. But I was really thrilled and I got a lot out of the fact that he and I, though on some things, I think we see things a little bit differently.
00:01:26
Speaker
You know, we were able to kind of see some issues from different angles, but still sort of
00:01:36
Speaker
hone in on what's kind of true there. I will say for the most part, I think he and I were very kind about it. We sort of avoided a lot of the topics that I think we know, where we know we don't quite line up. But I think if even if we did talk about that stuff, and as always, I would love to have him back. And if we do get into that stuff, I think maybe we'd find that a lot of it is just kind of, well, I don't know, honestly, I bet that would be a great conversation.
00:02:00
Speaker
Um, but that's why I got a lot out of this one. Um, and we do, of course, uh, as I, as often happens on here, run into a couple of technical difficulties. So there's, you'll see a couple of, I think there's one sort of weird cut in the middle of this one. Um, and right at the top, you'll hear it. Um, we had to start from scratch. So, uh, the take you're getting is, is take two. Um, but I, I did really like the conversation, so I hope you really enjoy it. Um,
00:02:26
Speaker
And yeah, with no further ado, here's my conversation with Mark Rosenfeld. Enjoy.
00:02:35
Speaker
Okay. All right. All right. Take two. Mark Rosenfeld, welcome to wish you all the best. We just had some technical difficulties. Hooray, low production value in the podcasting. Thank you so much, man, for coming on the podcast.
Mark's Journey as a Dating Coach
00:02:52
Speaker
You are a women's dating coach. You've got an awesome book. Make him yours, beating the odds of modern dating. Welcome. What am I missing? Give me some more intro.
00:03:01
Speaker
It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Scott. Yep. You got the book title, right? Uh, you pretty much nailed down what I do. Yeah, it's, it's a mozzie. I help women find love right across the spectrum from really ending their last relationship or getting to a really good point when they're single right through to essentially commitment, marriage, the whole shebang. So I do a lot of dating relationships because it's followed my own journey a little bit. So I started very much as a dating coach when I had dating struggles. Um,
00:03:31
Speaker
as Tony Robbins often says, our passion becomes our purpose. So my own struggles, sorry, our pain becomes our purpose. I have a lot of my own pain, a lot of my own struggles in dating. And that led me to coaching others, men initially, and then later on women.
00:03:47
Speaker
And then relationship challenges. You can get good at dating and suck at relationships as I learned. So I also have a lot of relationship skills to learn. Thankfully, I've learned a lot of the basic ones. I still make a lot of mistakes myself. Definitely not here claiming to be perfect, but I do it well enough to have a very happy relationship and a great love life. And so now I do a lot of work coaching women kind of throughout those different phases, not just helping with their journeys, but having other coaches work with me,
00:04:15
Speaker
It's sort of a whole thing, but yeah, I really enjoy it. That's amazing. That's awesome. And as you've just shared with me, very successfully because you just got married. Congratulations. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I got married on a Monday. How many people do you know that got married on a Monday? I don't recognize that many. I don't recognize that many. Look at that. Married on a Monday. I love it, man. Congrats. That's beautiful. Thank you.
00:04:40
Speaker
Fantastic. Okay, so folks can find the book, make him yours. They can find you on YouTube or all over the internet, Mark Rosenfeld. Please, yeah, please eventually go do that. It's also an Audible for anyone who wants the audio version. Spent three days in the smallest room I've ever stood in to record that. So if you've got 12, $14 spare, however much it is, you can get the Audible version as well. Amazing. And you read it in your amazing, amazing Australian accent. I love that.
00:05:07
Speaker
G'day mate, welcome to Beating the Odds of Modern Dating, making him yours. I love it, that's great. It's not quite that cool, but it's all right. I think it's cool, man. Yeah, no, I do, though I try to aim the podcast at man, I do have a number of ladies who listen, so if you're out there, the ladies. What's up, ladies? Check out my stuff.
00:05:31
Speaker
Okay, so let's get into it. I thought, and again, man, thank you so much for making the time to do this. I've been really excited about this. So yeah, let's get into it.
Dating Advice and App Usage
00:05:40
Speaker
So you mostly aim what you do at dating advice for women.
00:05:45
Speaker
I hear try to have conversations aimed at men or for the benefit of men. So I thought it would be fun to try and like flip it. And I would try to throw out advice that I would give to women. And I want to hear whether you think I'm full of it or we take on it. And I'm sure my listeners would love to hear you. We can reverse it. I'll just I haven't done man advice for probably like eight, eight or nine years. So I'll throw a couple of man advice points and you can tell me if I'm anywhere near.
00:06:15
Speaker
No, let's go. I love that. I love that. OK, OK, I'll go first. OK, so so so my advice to women, I do every now and then I get women who either because they're curious or because they think I have I don't know what the women who actually think I know what I'm talking about here. But like I do occasionally get women who get talking about this stuff or women who come on this podcast. Honestly, often usually folks who want to talk about relationships, usually it's women, right? Even those podcasts is aimed at men.
00:06:44
Speaker
Honestly, most of the guests I get are women. But I do get women every now and then who ask me for my take on dating advice for women. And I'd be interested to hear what you think. Yeah, OK. So essentially, it's around the dating apps. And I think one of the best things women can do in today's modern dating app culture is to use the apps to be more picky. Set up your profile to
00:07:14
Speaker
to shoo away the men who are not for you. Your profile too, not scare them away, but to get the men who you don't want swiping right on you, not swiping right on you, right? And my advice towards that is basically don't use it like Instagram. I think all of us, but I think especially women, are kind of
00:07:37
Speaker
conditioned or encouraged by social media to present like a certain version of ourselves online and for like my age bracket, that's mostly Instagram, right? But if it's TikTok or whatever, right? I do think there's a pressure and I think it's especially there for women because appearance is, I would say, a bigger deal for women. I think there's a lot to sort of appear a certain way or make sure that you look super duper cute or you know the right angles or you know the right lighting or that kind of thing for your pictures. And in terms of like what you're saying in your profile, you know,
00:08:07
Speaker
On social media, we present ourselves as someone who is confident and funny. On social media, you always get the highlight reel. You get the best of, that's what makes it onto my social media feed. But when I'm dating, I want someone who is going to like me for me, is going to see me for me. And I think, from the women that I've talked about dating, I think a big challenge they have is that they have
00:08:30
Speaker
a lot of options, but they have bad options. They can't find the guys who they like and the guys who are going to invest in them and put in the time and effort to really kind of start building that thing, to start watering it, to see what grows. Okay. So what do you think? Am I totally, totally wrong? One of the first words you used was more picky. First two words in a row. And I'm pretty hesitant around that. Now it could also be the niche of women that I work with because
00:08:57
Speaker
I tend to lean towards women who are a little bit more avoidant, leaning in their attachment style. Not always. I definitely have anxious clients, but I tend to lean towards women who are a little more avoidant. They're a little more independent. They've been hurt in the past by some way, shape, or form by a man. Their armor is usually up to some degree, sometimes quite a significant amount.
00:09:19
Speaker
So already you're dealing with with that type of character and then the apps themselves I agree. There's some very specific strategic things to do on apps I would never phrase it in a way though Be more picky unless I had a very specific client who is getting completely bogged down by going on all these dates and not getting anywhere Then that's right. Go short be more picky obviously context for every individual client is going to be different but the apps in general are
00:09:48
Speaker
unfortunately favor an extreme amount of pickiness. So I don't know if that's what you meant. I think maybe what you were trying to say is be more polarizing maybe, rather than more picky. Maybe. I don't know if that's what, if you're saying be more polarizing, that I can work around because you're saying, okay, I'm going to write my profile in a way
00:10:09
Speaker
that turns off the people that I don't want to some degree automatically. And I could somewhat get behind that, but my thoughts would be it's a little bit hard to do, first of all. The second is you don't want to put anything negative online because anyone who writes, I don't want cheaters or I don't want blah, blah, blah, you're never going to get anything good.
00:10:31
Speaker
And I think the other thing about online is it is very strategic and I think of it sometimes like going into a real estate office and seeing all the houses. It's really built to work against both the genders and in different ways. One of the struggles for women is I see them go on and sometimes I watch clients and they'll swipe through a hundred men in such a short amount of time. And so the last thing I'm ever going to tell that woman is, hey, we've got to figure out a way to get you to be more picky. So it might've just been the way you worded that.
00:11:00
Speaker
Um, but a lot of it is about setting boundaries with the way they do things. For example, I'll set, I'll have them set boundaries with how many swaps they can do a day, how many conversations they can have going at one time, how many, uh, what's the third big one, how many texts it goes before they're on a phone call or a date with someone. So apps are designed like poker machines. You play them the first time you pull the lever and it's really fun.
00:11:22
Speaker
You're like, oh, we're going to win. That's a swipe. But by the hundredth time, you're a depressed, miserable mess and you hate your life. Poker machines are the same way. So how do you enjoy a poker machine in a healthy way where you have really good boundaries? You do 10 pools of believer. And if you don't win your money that day, you go home. You don't blow the whole bank. You don't put all your time into it. You don't put all your money into it. Apps need to be used the same way. And probably the other thing I'll say is profiles and bios get a lot of focus.
00:11:52
Speaker
And while they are the door, if you walk into a real estate office and you see, you see sort of 50 houses, they tend to be five or six to get your attention. So it's true that, especially with men being visual, women's photos do matter. But after the first text has been exchanged, they matter for almost nothing.
00:12:10
Speaker
And the number of people I see where they're texting just sucks. I just got off the phone with a client and she was saying, you know, how can I, how can I read this text to this man? And I sent her an example and she's like, Oh, I already replied because I couldn't wait for you. Here's what I sent. And I looked at her text compared to mine and hers just had no energy.
00:12:32
Speaker
I mean, this is a bubbly woman. This is an interesting bubbly woman and her text made her sound like, you know, 85 year old Dorothy who was writing on a typewriter. So I think people underestimate. It's a weird skill to need, but the ability to text like you talk, the ability to message in the way that you actually sound with inflections, with energy, with emotion.
00:12:56
Speaker
If you're not in, as a woman, if you're not in the top most 15% of interesting text conversations he's having, then you'll be left with the drips and drabs of guys that are the quote unquote low quality guys you keep getting stuck with. Because if I'm a guy and I'm talking to five women and most of the guys with decent profiles have those options, it's only going to be the one or two most interesting over chat that I'm going to phone call, ask out, et cetera. The other three, I'm just going to get bored and talk to the first two.
00:13:23
Speaker
But I do agree that you need to be polarizing in terms of attracting, setting up your initial profile match.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you for that. I appreciate that response a lot.
Overcoming Dating App Overwhelm
00:13:37
Speaker
I think you're exactly right. Picky, you're right. That's not a good way to look at that. I'm interested to hear your take on this. I think I hear women, and maybe I'm just lucky, but a lot of the women that I end up talking to
00:13:53
Speaker
Their issue is they are just overwhelmed by the apps, right? Like the poker machine, like there's just too many poker machines. The poker machine analogy is perfect because they are designed to be addictive, right? There really is that aspect to the technology. And yeah, the women I talk to about it, they are overwhelmed. And I will tell guys like, hey,
00:14:19
Speaker
Remember that she's overwhelmed. Remember that you're trying to get the attention of someone who's maybe going to see it way, way later because she's not as encouraged to open the app and have that patience.
00:14:32
Speaker
understand the context in which your message is gonna be received because I think it's very different for guys, right? And so I think it's a mistake to assume, I think it's a mistake both genders make to assume that it's the same for men and women, right? Yeah, it's definitely not, especially on apps. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the apps, they literally boil us down to numbers, right? It's a giant database of picks and people and it's, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
Okay, I'm interested to dig in on this some more though. And I'm sure you work with a variety of women, but for women who do feel overwhelmed, who feel like there's just too many options in the phone and when they meet people in the real world, it just falls flat. It's not a connection and they can't
00:15:24
Speaker
they're looking for that spark, they're looking for whatever that chemistry is to make them feel that magical thing that we're all kind of chasing, right? And it's not happening. I guess A, is that a situation that you think happens often? It's entirely possible that I just have like, I don't know, lucky friends. But if that's something that you experienced with women or that women you talk to experience, like how
00:15:49
Speaker
you know, what can they do? What can an individual woman do to beat the odds?
00:15:55
Speaker
Well, yeah, the overwhelm is one of the biggest problems people experience with apps because especially if you pay for them, paying for them makes it even worse because you then see your B line and apps can be like emails as well. You know, we see there's 300 options and we want to get down to zero on red options so that we can just be clear. There's almost an OCD aspect to it. But then you go on the next day, you've got another 56 matches and you go, oh my God, how am I going to get through all of these?
00:16:21
Speaker
So the real solution to overwhelm, and this is in any area of life, is good boundaries and management so that you can have consistency. If you're going to the gym for three hours a day and saying I'm overwhelmed, I would say dial it back. You're never going to be able to maintain that. Apps in their sheer nature. Like if you went out, maybe speed dating is the best example where you can meet multiple people in a night. And even on speed day, even the busiest speed dating night, at about 15, you're done.
00:16:49
Speaker
you're cooked. You don't want to meet any 15 people. And that's if you get a few minutes. And yet we swipe through, I've seen women swipe through over a hundred and like even I, and I haven't spent a ton of time on apps in my life, I generally prefer to meet women in real life.
00:17:03
Speaker
But even I, when I was on apps, it's like the human brain is always trying to find a solution to the problem. And usually it's the easiest, laziest way to can. And so unfortunately, any person that's presented with a hundred options goes, their brain goes, Oh my God, I can't compute this. I'll just have to pick the five with the nicest eyes.
00:17:21
Speaker
It'll be something incredibly superficial. And when you start treating people that superficially, it's going to feel very empty. You would never walk into a bar with a hundred people, look around, say, I'm only going to spend two minutes with like the five that have pretty eyes and then leave because everyone else here sucks. But that's exactly what we do on apps.
00:17:37
Speaker
And that's why it's so overwhelming, because there's no human connection. You're not taking the time to actually chat a little bit, meet a little bit. And so really, to me, the only solution to overwhelm is to set those boundaries around swipe limits, message limits, and texting limits, and stick to your own boundaries with them. Because then meeting people on apps becomes, A, more sustainable, but B, more like speed dating. More like, OK, I'm socializing, I'm meeting a few people, and then I'm getting out. It has to be managed with energy.
00:18:06
Speaker
There's other pieces to this. For example, apps can bring up insecurities for a lot of people. It can bring up doubts for a lot of people. So it can trigger other stuff as well. And sometimes people find dealing with that exhausting. But even if you're totally secure, if you try to swipe a hundred people in a night and then you have a great profile and then you swipe, try to keep up with the, you know, the beeline the next night, you're going to get, no one can keep up with that.
00:18:31
Speaker
So it's just totally unrealistic. And I found the only true way to fix the overwhelm is with really good internal boundaries. That makes a lot of sense. That makes a ton of sense. I think I was just coming at that maybe from a different lens. I was thinking like what you want to do to reduce the overwhelm is try as best as you can to make sure that only the guys who are going to be for you are swiping right on you. But maybe that's not even
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm very hesitant to use the profile as a filter option because it's just so difficult to do. I had another client today who said she is overly picky and she is that way with, she's quite self-critical, so she's other critical as well because the people on the outside become our insight. And I can see how critical she is with. Yeah, right. Many of us have done it.
00:19:21
Speaker
Um, and she's like, you know, I just, I see their profiles and I know they're not for me. And she basically finds a way to save that for every profile. So she, she sees. And I said to her, Jane, you got to talk to these guys. Like it's one thing to say, Hey, I found none of these five guys attractive, but to say, I found none of these hundred guys attractive. Okay. Now you're full of it. Now you're being avoided and you have to get your hands dirty with conversations. So the other big thing I do a lot is phone calls because
00:19:51
Speaker
If you go straight from texting to date, you're always going to be kind of, nah, I don't know how this person is, but women's intuition is very, very powerful. And even me dating, I'd be within 10 minutes if I could spend an hour with this girl and at least enjoy my time to a decent degree versus not. So phone calls are really, really good and I highly recommend them.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, big time. Agree. I always try when I'm dating, I always try to get to a phone call as soon as it's comfortable. As soon as I think I can get to, hey, let's talk on the phone and actually hear each other's voices, because it's just a game changer. Oftentimes when I get someone on the phone, it just feels like everything that we've talked about in text or looking at each other's profiles, that all washes away. Exactly. It's starting over. It's almost like apps
00:20:35
Speaker
Apps are like a negative three to zero. And then zero is where you're on the phone exchanging in real time with someone. And in real life, when you meet people at the bar or, you know, your friend says, Hey, I've got this friend, you should meet him or her. That's zero. You know, that's zero. But apps is like, there's this negative three section where you've got a few more steps to get to zero. But the voice is where the power is.
00:20:59
Speaker
What do you think about voice messages or video messages? I think Bumble, I think a few of the apps do it, but some of the apps actually let you send a video message in the app. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. Video message, not so much. That's kind of newer. I think it can have its place, but voice messages I'm a big fan of.
00:21:20
Speaker
I know for men or women, when I was dating, I found it very, very helpful to stand out above other guys and women loved it. Even if they just texted back, I could tell they enjoyed it. But even for my female clients,
00:21:35
Speaker
As I say, you can be a good texter and you can learn to really text with energy and to sound more somewhat like 80% maybe if you're really good, as good as you are with your voice, but it's never going to be as good as your voice. And no matter how good your texting game is, it's always going to fizzle within some period of time.
00:21:54
Speaker
So moving to the voice, yeah, I think it's very, very powerful. And you can show vulnerability, you can show energy, you can show excitement, you can show every emotion, you can show it just through your inflections in your voice. And it's hard to do that over text, especially over periods of time. Completely agree. I mean, I just think as human beings, we're, you know, we're designed to... To connect. To receive each other. Yeah. Yeah. And just the words in a text, like there's just...
00:22:21
Speaker
all the emojis and all the slang or whatever, it just doesn't, I can't do the same thing. I totally agree. So for clients overwhelmed, slowing down, having all those boundaries, but potentially talking to more guys, as I say, some of my clients can be quite overly picky, more guys, but getting more aggressive with their filtering once they're at the phone call stage, but less aggressive before that. Okay.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I agree. OK, I want to put two pins in there. I want to put a pin in meeting people in real life because I agree with you, but I want to hear hear you talk about that. Yeah. And I want to put a pin in picky clients because I'm really picky and maybe you can help me. But I want to finish up our little segment thing here. What what advice, what advice? So my advice for women, maybe not so great. What what what do you think men need to hear in modern dating?
Self-Improvement and Vulnerability for Men
00:23:15
Speaker
What do men need to hear in multi dating? If I was watching men right now. Yeah. I was going to say, can I, can I frame it a little more? Like, sure. The kind of guys who I sometimes bump into about this are like either afraid to get out there, like not even interested in getting on the apps or on the apps and not getting matches. Um, or, and just feeling like the deck is stacked against them and feeling like
00:23:45
Speaker
There's just something broken in modern society and maybe romantic connection is not for me. Is that a guy that you think is out there? Is that a narrative that you heard? That's so funny because I hear that from women as well. It's funny how we all think. It's the narrative we go to when we have lost hope and run out of new strategies that we think we can try. We go, okay, I guess it's just not meant for me. Yeah.
00:24:07
Speaker
Uh, which is sad, you know, it's sad that we think that way. And unfortunately this stuff is not really taught in schools. Romance isn't, isn't magic. Attraction is not magic. It's a series of pretty predictable things you do or don't do that leads to an end result.
00:24:22
Speaker
finance, everyone gets that, fitness, everyone gets that, romance has this weird, ah, but romance is magical and has this esoteric trait where it's the universe didn't mean it for me. Like, no, it's really a series of pretty predictable steps, just like the other two areas of life, health, wealth, relationships. They're all sort of the same thing. Take the correct actions fairly consistently. They yield to results, lead to results and do the opposite and it doesn't.
00:24:50
Speaker
So yeah, I guess maybe to understand that type of client a bit more. I mean, if I was working with that type of client, I'd be asking questions like, okay, what makes you most attractive to women? What makes you stand out? And I'd be really curious how, if they could answer it, because if he's not taking care of his health, if he's not taking care of his business, is he out there challenging himself to get rejected?
00:25:15
Speaker
I mean, I can't remember how many hundreds of times I had to get rejected before I earned confidence. It's like, I think there's a little bit of a, sometimes there's an entitlement where we think we should have something and then we blame the universe or the world or whatever modern society. And anytime you blame anyone other than yourself, you're giving power to
00:25:37
Speaker
the other and taking away from yourself. So I think men probably receive this feedback. Maybe I'm trying to think back to when I was coaching men as well. Maybe men receive this feedback a little bit more easily, which is everything is your responsibility and nothing's an accident. And that isn't to say, you know, some girl from your past, you know, screwed you over 10 years later, but that stuff can happen. But I think the attitude of like, okay, if there's a pattern here in your life, if you're not getting the responses you want,
00:26:04
Speaker
then you're responsible for that. And it's something you're doing or not doing. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it probably does mean things need to change. And when I was going out trying to completely overhaul my social skillset, it was rough. It was really rough. And I think one of the advantages and disadvantages of being a man is we can sort of
00:26:26
Speaker
I think sometimes deal with that a little bit better, like going out there and getting rejected. There's sort of a cool thing about it, which is we're on our purpose, we're doing our thing, and if it takes some rejections, we're happy to go and get them. That's a harder thing, I think, for women clients to absorb and not something I coach anywhere near as much. So yeah, I guess I'd be saying, I'd be asking them what's most attractive about you, as in how's the rest of your life going? How's your health? How's your wealth?
00:26:55
Speaker
Is that making you a desirable man? If it's not, that's where you do your work. And then if it is getting out there, and I really like Mark Manson's book. It's, it's probably my favorite written. I don't know if you've read models, but, um, a lot of, is this not a lot of not giving his first book. Yes. Same author, but his first book. Okay. I haven't read the new one. Okay. Um, oldest one, his oldest book.
00:27:24
Speaker
At the end of the day, it's the courage to act on what you are feeling and seeing. And so it can be as simple as walking up to women saying, hey, I thought you were beautiful and I wanted to come meet you. How's your day going?
00:27:42
Speaker
know, nine times out of 10, that might not work or five times out of 10, whatever. But you do that enough times. And it does this thing where it's like, it kind of toughens you up to that rejection. You're like, okay, I can do this. I'm fine. I didn't die. And of course, six out of 10 times, it doesn't work means four out of 10 times it does. And suddenly you have plenty of options in women. So that's the one I would go down a combination of sort of personal self work to be the most attractive version of themselves. And then
00:28:12
Speaker
really exposing them to some sort of environmental roughness that actually makes them be vulnerable. The apps don't make you be vulnerable because even rejection is hidden behind a screen. I want a woman rejecting you to your eyes. You know, that's, that's vulnerability. And if you can do that a bunch of times and really own it and own your truth while you're doing it, women will respect that. And as long as you're doing the other stuff well in your life, I don't see how your patterns wouldn't change.
00:28:38
Speaker
I love that. I do love that. OK, I want to put a third pin in your gray or disagree. What's your opinion? I do agree. Well, I mostly agree. I want to put a pin in cold approach because I think that's interesting. I do think. I don't know. So for me, OK. I mean, my big thing, as evidenced by this podcast for men,
00:29:02
Speaker
I think it revolves around the same issue, which is confidence, feeling like you're ready to get out there and shoot your shot and try and connect with someone. That's the lens I see it through. You're meeting a human being, you're trying to connect with them. You're like, hey, you know what? There's a chance that maybe there's a romantic spark here. I don't know yet. You don't know yet, but let's talk a little bit and find out. You're never going to find that if you don't try.
00:29:26
Speaker
And the society that we live in, we look to men to be romantic initiators. It is very, very, very rare that a woman is going to take that first risk is going to risk rejection. Or further risk like physical, the risks for women are higher, but risking rejection. I think it's the day we live in or the modern world we live in, it's to the men. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I would say women generally make the first move, but you very rarely see it.
00:29:55
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Cold approach is the exception. Okay. If you're doing genuine cold approach, which not many people do anymore, um, then, then you're man initiating, but
00:30:05
Speaker
Nine times out of 10, you know, if a woman is online, she's already made somewhat of a first move to say that she's open. Let's talk about real life though. In real life, she's at a bar. She gives some sort of eye contact. Um, she'll give a, she'll give a little nod. She'll position herself in the, in, in place for the man to do it. So any observer would see the man making the first move, but men very rarely approach closed off women. And I've seen this with all of my closed off clients and compared them to my fairly open clients. Um,
00:30:31
Speaker
There's a certain energy women do or don't show. And obviously, if women have been hurt in the past, they're less likely to show this that says how open they are. It's their body language. It's their eyes. It's how they position themselves. So women give invites, but they need to be subtle enough to not risk rejection, as you say. And so, unfortunately, you then have some men who get the invites and some men who the women are perceiving is not as attractive who may not.
00:30:55
Speaker
And that's where raising your own status in some way comes in. It could be working on your health or your business. It could be working on your social life and just being around a lot more women and becoming charismatic. Or you go down the cold approach line, which is a bit of a trial by fire, but it will toughen you up. It will get results. It's harder because you're not going to get the signals to go.
00:31:19
Speaker
But sometimes the more difficult something is, the more rewarding it is. So yeah, I'd probably push back a bit there. I'd say just because you don't see women initiating doesn't mean they're not kind of doing it.
00:31:31
Speaker
I love that. Okay. So I have this thing, this like half baked idea that I've been trying to put together. I call it the feminist handkerchief drop, which is probably too hot of a name, but like, they're too controversial, but like the handkerchief drop, right? Like a woman, you know, I don't know, I see it in like a, in like a silent movie, what a black and white thing, but like a woman drops her handkerchief. So the man can be like, Oh, you dropped your handkerchief. And now there's eye contact. There's like maybe a conversation.
00:31:57
Speaker
Now, I'm not saying, you know, drop a piece of cloth. I'm saying do something that indicates like some level of interest that a guy, if he's paying attention, can see as like, oh, I'm being told that it is acceptable for me to come and like sort of interrupt this person's piece and like
00:32:15
Speaker
Just say hello. You know, like I think that moment where you like just begin a conversation with someone because we're human beings, I think you learn so much. I mean, I don't think I'm special. Right. But I think we do like you just we call it. OK, your listeners apologies for technical difficulty. Number two, Lord only knows how I'm going to stitch this together, but I'm going to do it. Let's get back into it. OK.
00:32:44
Speaker
feminist handkerchief drop. The name is probably a little too controversial. I was about to ask when it becomes feminist because I'm still writing for that drop. I think mostly because I'm just trying to pitch it to that crowd. I think it's purely marketing. I'm not sure. That's a great question. The handkerchief drop or the feminine handkerchief drop, I don't know if you have to attach a label to it.
00:33:11
Speaker
That's fair. That's very fair. No, you know what? That's fair. It's probably just me trying to market it to to to that to that crowd because that's kind of where I swim. But I do. I do. I do kind of think that. Yeah, that I worry that there are women out there and I get this from women I've talked to mostly, but but I worry that they're like
00:33:39
Speaker
hoping for someone to approach and introduce themselves or just appear while not putting out that first signal and putting out a vibe, call it whatever you want. Because I think
00:33:58
Speaker
I mean, maybe this is just by virtue of the cities that I live in or whatever. Most women that I just bump into in the world, I would say tend to be pretty closed off. Maybe that's the vibe I'm putting out. I don't know. But in my experience, generally speaking, the vibe that I get from most women that I bump into in the world is like, not right now. And that's okay. If they're not looking for it, then awesome. Message received, right? Yeah.
00:34:24
Speaker
But even in bars, at social events, I don't know, farmer's markets, just being out in the world, that's usually what I get. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. Is there a question? Are you question or sharing? That's a fair question. I don't know. I'm just talking.
00:34:50
Speaker
Okay, so you say some of your clients, some of your women clients, they can be closed off. I guess how common do you think that is? Do you think it's very common? Do you think it's rare? And what should women do to give themselves the advantage to put out that signal so the guy that they think they might like sees a green light?
Women's Approachability and Signals
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah, good question. It's common for me, but I might also be coming from a biased audience in seeing that. I see it a lot. I see a lot of emotional armor in women. And look, I think some of it makes sense. And some of it makes sense at a biological level. If a woman, you know, I even had that I was chatting to one of my team members the other day. And she's a young woman. She's single.
00:35:43
Speaker
And she said, uh, you know, I get approached by men sometimes at the gym. And she said, you know, I usually have to just keep this resting bitch face on so that no one approaches me. But then sometimes when they do, they always are like, Oh, you're so much nicer than you looked. And
00:36:02
Speaker
She would never get any gym session done if she was open. So I do think there's a real legitimacy to, okay, I've got to have my blinkers on. I don't want to give signals because men are looking for signals from women. Men are responsive to open women and men turn away from closed women. And many men are very sensitive to women's feelings right across the spectrum from being in a relationship to the very beginning. So men are always aware of these signals, even if it's not entirely conscious all the time. So women, I think are aware of sending him smartly so.
00:36:32
Speaker
And so, yeah, if, if you're never getting approached, especially if you're in environments where you are around men, then you do need to look at how you're showing up as a woman because guys are always looking for your signal. They're always going, okay, is she approachable or is she not? One of the biggest embarrassment threats. And I found when I was doing cold approach, the hardest thing, like five times harder than the regular stuff was approaching in rooms for the people where everyone could hear.
00:36:57
Speaker
It was just so much more difficult to be rejected in front of 20 people than by just one. Something about the social reputation is just, just feels deadly when you do that. So yeah, if you're a woman and you're out there and you're in environments with a lot of these men, but you're finding they're not approaching you, they're not connecting with you, then yes, you probably do in my experience need to be more open. It's going to be more eye contact, longer eye contact, more regular eye contact, the way you position yourself.
00:37:25
Speaker
And also the way that you express your feminine energy in an environment. And I talk a lot about this with clients, but being in your emotions and being able to be present in your emotions is absolutely fascinating and attractive and beautiful to a man. Um, but often I work with a lot of women in sales, corporate real estate business type environments. And in a lot of those environments, especially if they've been competing with the boys for a long time, they've had to really snuff those qualities out.
00:37:53
Speaker
to survive and to not be made fun of. So it's hard for women to sometimes bring out that presence and that emotional energy in some of these corporate-ish environments, even when they're off the clock. But yes, I think to answer your question overall, if you're not meeting the men you want to meet and getting approached, then remember you as the woman are engineering it and men are responding to it.
00:38:18
Speaker
And so that party is your responsibility because there's women that are out there getting approached. You know, there's women that are out there who don't have the problems you have. So you've got to take an honest look and instead of blaming someone else, blaming men say, okay, if there's these women out there that are doing it, what are they doing differently to me? And that gives you your power back so you can change something and get what they're getting. I like that. I agree with that.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, you mentioned a woman expressing her emotions, being attractive. I have so many pins in things already. I do want to put a fourth in the masculine feminine energy thing because I think it's fascinating and I want to hear your take on that, but that might be for part two. For me, I'd say a woman who feels comfortable expressing herself, A,
00:39:11
Speaker
I think honestly, I love that she feels safe to an extent. That's almost an egotistical thing for me because it's like, oh, I feel good because this person feels safe around me. You know what I mean? But also, and I think maybe even this is a bigger deal and this might just be me, but like someone who is just free to or a woman who feels
00:39:35
Speaker
able to express herself, able to say what's on her mind, able to put herself out there so that I can see who she is, makes me feel free to put myself out there so that I can show who I am. And for me, that's a huge deal because it makes me feel at my core. I want to be seen. I want someone to see me for who I am. You know what I mean? Sorry. Yeah.
00:39:53
Speaker
I was going to say that's a great example of women bringing emotional safety to a man's life. What you said just then is you kind of wait for a woman to open the emotional door. You see how far she opens it and you explore within that area. And it's a lot like the opposite with the physical space. Most women are not going to walk into a dark house with blackout rooms until you've explored the house first and prove that the area is safe. They're going to stand at the doorway. They're going to say, you check it out. I just want you to make sure it's safe. And once you say, babe, it's safe, all the rooms are clear, then they'll come in and feel safe.
00:40:23
Speaker
So, in the same way, men will test a physical space to make it safe for the woman. What you're describing there is really great, which is the woman's making physical, sorry, the woman's making emotional space for me to explore as the man. And this is why some women will sometimes get the feedback they're intimidating. It's not because they have this ragingly successful job or this wild income. That can happen. And some men are threatened by that.
00:40:49
Speaker
but it's rare. And I have CEO clients who are very, very well for themselves, but they're not intimidating to men. And the difference is the women that are not intimidating have this emotional breadth, this space where the men can kind of go, Oh, am I safe here? Oh, can I be myself? Cause no man wants to be more emotional than she is. Cause otherwise he becomes the feminine, he becomes a quote unquote pussy. And then he's emasculated, which is not a good feeling for a man. So she creates that space
00:41:20
Speaker
It gives him that sense of safety. And it, yeah, it's just a beautiful thing. I like that you brought that up. I don't think I have more to add there. No, that's, that's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Um, okay.
Real-Life vs. App-Based Meetings
00:41:35
Speaker
Uh, I want to start picking my pins up here. We're, we're, we're cooking. Yeah. Um, okay. So you say you like to meet folks in real life. You don't, you don't love the apps. I for so long, I had a Tik TOK presence for a while before I figured out that I didn't like Tik TOK.
00:41:48
Speaker
And my whole thing was delete the apps. I was just like, do not use the apps. I use them now. I'm a complete hypocrite. But I think meeting in real life, I'm such a hypocrite. But I think meeting in real life is vastly superior. And I just find it can be tough. So I just kind of want to give you the mic. Meeting in real life is hard. What do we do?
00:42:11
Speaker
Nice. Nice. No, you're right. It is tough. Um, but the difficulty of something is usually relative to the reward. That's number one. And number two, if you think offline is tough, tough, try online. I mean, we've already spoken about how online is tough, but I, it's like pick your hard. I personally prefer the hard that comes with offline because the hard that comes with offline is a little more
00:42:38
Speaker
What's the word? It makes a little more sense to me. It's grow your social skills. It's look people in the eyes. It's work on your charisma. It's figure out how to prioritize your schedule better so that you have time for this and you're making it a priority. Um, it's network. It's, it's make more friends. It's do things in fun groups and find your passions out of the house. And it brings that human connection. Now the downside is first impressions, cold approach is hard. It's really awkward sometimes. People don't necessarily like each other, but
00:43:06
Speaker
I've always, especially as an introvert, I've always preferred to put myself around extroverts whenever I can because I like that their energy rubs off on me. And so I prefer that set of problems. It's still a set of problems, but I like the growth that comes with that set of problems. And I like the, at the end of the day, it's like a gym session. It kind of can suck at the time, especially if you're more introverted, but you're always glad you did it.
00:43:30
Speaker
Online has a different set of problems we've already talked about. They're much more mechanical, strategic type problems. There's nothing wrong with those problems and it forces you to confront different insecurities. But when faced with two sets of problems, obviously the biggest advantage is it's less time. You don't have to wear pants. You know, there's a bunch of advantages. Um, but personally, I like the, I like the, what's the word, the friction that comes with offline. Cause I find it a little more rewarding at the end of the day.
00:43:59
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. So I just moved. I moved last summer to Southern California. I'm in Santa Monica. I used to be in San Francisco. It's lovely. I'm so lucky. It's lovely. And I'm very lucky in a lot of ways. All the other aspects of my life, very fortunately, are kind of taken care of to an extent. And I'm very grateful for that. Yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
But I got divorced five, six years ago now and decided it was time to get back out there. And I was just having a terrible time dating in San Francisco. Whatever it was, call it the universe, call it whatever you want. It was not working for me in San Francisco. And I started
00:44:45
Speaker
extending my dating range or whatever. It basically started going on first dates in L.A. And I started racking up Southwest miles because I was going on more good first dates in L.A. than I was in San Francisco. And it was bananas, which is all to say. But anyway, which is to say I kind of uprooted my life to try and pursue this thing that's important to me, like finding romantic connection as best as I can.
00:45:11
Speaker
But what I've kind of discovered in doing that is that, and I talked with all my dear friends there and I missed them a lot and I knew I would miss them. But I did, I uprooted myself. I really kind of took myself away from the community that I had built there. And it's like, well, I got to start building it again. I got to kind of like get out, make friends, get into the world and meet people, build community, make those human connections. So anyway, what you're talking about there really resonates with me and
00:45:40
Speaker
I just kind of want to pile on. Did you really grow through it? I would say I'll say yes. The I will say dating here is working much better for me now than it was in San Francisco. But the challenge, like rebuilding community, that's real. You know, like I I knew that was going to be a challenge. I knew that that was going to be hard. I really value community. I would also describe myself as an introvert. I have a hard time.
00:46:10
Speaker
It takes it takes a lift to get out of the house and go meet people, that kind of thing. Yeah. So I guess I just want to kind of want to pile on there for anybody that's listening just to kind of like highlight that, like, it's hard. You pick your heart, like you said, but I think it's worth it, you know. And yeah, and it's it's building community and like, yeah, like ideally in a perfect world, I would just devote my time to building community and find that romantic connection somewhere through that. Right. Yeah.
00:46:40
Speaker
And yet here I am swiping on whatever stupid app I've downloaded. Anyway, that's awesome. Okay. Can we, I've got two more pins if you've got time. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was just thinking there's not many people who move to LA and say my dating life's really improved since I moved. I don't hear that too often. So that's, that's credit to you.
00:47:01
Speaker
That's that's OK. That's fascinating. I have a pet theory about this. My pet theory is if someone tells you that dating in that city is awful and it's a woman, if you're a man, go there. Right. And if a guy is telling you it sucks there and you're a woman, go there. Because I think it's I think it's I mean, I could be totally I could be totally wrong. It might be a horrible for everyone here. But no, I mean, I.
00:47:28
Speaker
I like the theory. I actually quite like it. I don't tend to accept any of those excuses because I find a lot of the time the problems move with the person. In your case, it hasn't. So good on you. But a lot of the times it does, which shows that, you know, oh, there's a fight breaking out in every bar that I go to. Hmm. I wonder what the problem is. But in all seriousness, if you give your power to anything other than yourself again, you disempower yourself.
00:47:53
Speaker
Oh, I can't date in Boston because Boston men suck. All right. Are you leaving? No. Well, then figure it out because you're part of the problem. Saying anything, I mean, it doesn't feel good, but what else are you going to do? Sit there for the rest of your life saying Boston men suck. Like that's just giving power to Boston men. And I guarantee there's at least one woman in Boston who's having more success or who is having success. Do what she does. Like figure it out. We've kind of lost that creative, creativeness somewhere, which I think apps
00:48:21
Speaker
do this because they, they make us think, all right, I'm going to go on an app. I'm not going to have to look anyone in the eyes. I'm not going to get rejected. No pants on. I'm going to watch 90 day fiance. I don't even have to put effort in. It's like if there's this myth that like, Oh, it's easy. Now your problems have been solved. It's like, no, no, no. Life doesn't work like that. You get out of one set of problems. You better be ready to deal with the other set. Oh, you don't want those other problems. Then get the hell out of the house. It's like you can't avoid the problems. And I think we sometimes have so
00:48:50
Speaker
few problems in this era of living that we sometimes think we're entitled to live without problems while forgetting that it's actually our problems that give us so much growth. Yeah, I really I super agree with that. I think I mean, I will rail against social media way too much. I'm a cranky old man in that regard.
00:49:08
Speaker
And like, but I do, I think, I think the whole, I think the success model of social media is that it promises a quick and easy way to achieve human connection. And it's like the empty calories. It's like the, like the
00:49:24
Speaker
the bad sugar craving thing because it's easy. You pick up the phone, you're like, okay, cool. I want to laugh at somebody. I want to feel connected with somebody, but really you're not. I mean, there are exceptions, of course, but I think ultimately it's the easy thing to go to that keeps us from doing the hard work. I mean, people are lonelier than ever. That's the craziest part. We're more connected than ever and lonelier than ever. So, I mean, if that's the proof of empty calories, I don't know what is.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The loneliness thing is yeah, absolutely. I think connected to all of this. And it doesn't, you know, you were speaking earlier about the perfectionism of social media, how everyone filters everything that makes every
00:50:01
Speaker
when you're in person with someone, you see them on a good day and then you see them on a bad day. You're like, Oh, Scott's fricking, Oh my God, I can't compare myself to this guy. He's so great. He's so confident. But the next day they see you and it's like, Oh, Scott's a mess today, but he's having a horrible day. Like real life D, you know, it defilters and you see the real thing. And then you go, okay, I'm not, I'm not doing that bad. Scott had a great day yesterday, but he's a bit of a mess today. So you know what? I guess I'm fine. I have a messy day too, but you don't see
00:50:28
Speaker
the messy days on social media. And I know that people sometimes put those kind of posts up, but it's not the same. When you're looking at someone's eyes and they're actually vulnerable, having a messy day, even those messages that are all vulnerable, quote unquote, they've been curated to get likes, they've been curated to get attention. They're not the person sitting there really being truly vulnerable. So there's a bit of a, yeah, I, I agree with you on that. I think it's very,
00:50:57
Speaker
very false, what's put out there. I hope, so there's, I mean, it probably won't happen, but there's a piece of me that really hopes that in a generation, we'll look back on social media and we'll see it kind of the way we see cigarettes now. Like once upon a time, everyone did it, but we'll look back and be like, Oh yeah, that was really unhealthy for everyone. And you shouldn't do that. I don't know. Maybe not. Okay. Can we, can we pick up one more pin before I let you go, my friend? Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
Um,
Balancing Traits and Compatibility in Dating
00:51:26
Speaker
okay. You said you work with a lot of picky clients. Um, I am, as anyone who listens to this podcast will know I am, I talk about this all the time. I think I'm way too picky. I, I don't, I work on it. I try to be aware of it. I try to like, I don't know. I try to do the work, but like, what, what advice do you give to, and you don't know me. I'm not requiring you to like solve my problem, but like, what advice do you give to picky clients? What can I, what can I, well, there's a couple of things. First thing I'd say is ask your best friend who knows you really well.
00:51:55
Speaker
someone who cares about you, someone who will tell you the truth, someone who doesn't sugarcoat things, ask them what are the three traits that they have to freaking put up with about you that are really irritating. But despite those three traits, they still like you and think you're a cool person, want to be your friend. Like basically what are the three kind of most intolerable things about you that they tolerate? So take those three and then do a bit of a, whatever your friend says, take those three and
00:52:23
Speaker
honestly consider would I date someone with these traits? And if you're being pickier than that, and maybe it's not the exact traits, maybe it's a trait that's similarly annoying, but if that's what someone has to live with to date you, then those are also traits or equivalent traits that you've got to live with to date someone else. I've sort of been mulling this over in my mind lately and I'm not quite happy with it yet, but it's this theory that
00:52:54
Speaker
The positive traits are why we love someone and the negative traits are how we love someone. So let me clarify that. When I say positive traits, what I mean is just things that are very attractive initially. So someone's really playful or they're really compassionate or they're just really great to be around. All those positive things are why we love them.
00:53:15
Speaker
At least why we start loving them or being attracted to them. As I say, I'm still working on the wording here, but it's those great traits. You say, Oh, Scott's just, Scott's just amazing. I want to be around Scott XYZ. I love about him, but the negative traits, the incompatibilities, the things that your friend would say to you are how we love someone. And so what I mean by that is whenever you're inconvenient, whenever you run attractive, whenever you're not at your best, that's the true love test. Cause anyone can love you when you're at your best, anyone can love you for your good traits.
00:53:45
Speaker
But can someone stick around for those traits that your friend sticks around for? Can someone stick around when you set a boundary that they're, that's inconvenient to them or when they don't like? Can someone stick around when you're not just making them feel good? And so it's those friction traits, those things that are not attractive about you or those things that are problematic. That's going to be the ultimate love test at the end of the day. Someone going to stick by you once they learn those things about you and experience those parts of you. And same for you in reverse.
00:54:14
Speaker
So I think that's a really good gut check is, is okay. Those things are why someone would love you, the positive traits, but, but the negatives are how someone would love you. So which negative traits are going to be your house and other people, you know, when you see something you don't like, is that going to be something? And certainly there's plenty of deal breaker traits. Okay. This person, one kids, this one doesn't, that's a, that's a deal breaker in 99% of people's books really should be a hundred, but there's going to be other traits where it's like, eh, that's, that's kind of annoying.
00:54:43
Speaker
you can't make everything a deal breaker. And certainly you've got negative traits as well. So that would be one piece of advice that I would say is taking a genuine look at, okay, would I, you know, would I date someone with the equivalent negative traits of me? And also reframing them as how I love someone. And then the second thing is sort of along similar lines, but take the three traits that you want most in a partner, your three favorite traits, whatever they are, whatever you're super excited to attract, and then figure out what trait you'll have to tolerate to attract that.
00:55:15
Speaker
Every trait comes with a negative. Every trait comes with an equal and opposite, something that's annoying. For example, someone who's super extroverted, which might seem like a wonderful trait. I find that trait very attractive personally. But then once you're in a relationship with them, you realize that they need a lot more external validation than your typical introvert. And so they're talking to their friends a lot more than your last introverted partner did. They're talking to their social circles to get more advice. They're not as available more than your past partner. So every single trait you're looking for has an equal and opposite downside.
00:55:44
Speaker
And it's about recognizing some of those to again, reduce your pickiness. If it's a real struggle for you, I'll throw in one more. You kind of got to look internally because if you're going, Oh, I'm not accepting anything about anyone else, then you're probably denying those negative traits within yourself and denying that you have things that are not great about you as well. So that's some of the inner work there, but those are the two outer things that I would say,
00:56:14
Speaker
I love that. Okay. That's a lot to chew on. I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to chew on that and do another pod in the future about figuring that out. I, I love that though. Hang on. Okay. Wait, can we go back to one thing? So, so the negative traits. So, so positive things I want in someone else, the negative things I'm willing to put up with, you say the negative traits are how we love someone. Can you unpack that again for me? I'd be happy to. Yes.
00:56:41
Speaker
I love that. I'm absorbing a lot. Let's use a compatibility example. Here's my idea, woman. Once kids, good mother, non-religious, what are some other big ones, lives in Australia, wants to build a future in Australia, has likable in-laws that I get along with,
00:57:11
Speaker
uh, works out similar health values to me. Okay. So there's, there's a list of things I'm sure we could go on. Um, it turns out that the woman I found had many of those traits, but she lived on the other side of the world. Frick. So I had to make a decision. I met a pretty great woman who's definitely not perfect. Do I
00:57:35
Speaker
give up on the Australia deal breaker and try to be with this woman? Or do I keep fishing in the pond? And I had to make a decision on that. I went back and forth and there's been a lot of ramifications in my life for deciding to turn one of my deal breakers not into a deal breaker anymore, as in living in Australia, building a future in Australia. I switched that off.
00:57:58
Speaker
And because of that, Sam and I had to do over a year long distance, over a year to make this relationship work. Long distance sucks. Who wants to do that? It sucks. But at the end of a year long distance, how solid do you think we were from having survived that? Super solid. Super solid. Way more solid than if I'd met a girl five minutes down the street.
00:58:21
Speaker
So the incompatibility, which I didn't want, turned into our greatest strength by working through it. Fortunately, that was an incompatibility that we could live through. If it was one, one's kids, one doesn't, that one's, that one's, you're probably going to cook you because someone's going to get resentful eventually. But in this case, the thing that was our greatest incompatibility became our greatest source of strength because it forced us to mutually invest in the relationship. And now
00:58:49
Speaker
If someone was to go, you throw a girl in front of me and it's like, hey Mark, do you want to cheat on your partner? I also have more skin in the game now. Not only do I have the relationship to lose, but I have a year of long distance investment to lose as well. So that forced investment that comes from two people working to a solution on an incompatibility
00:59:10
Speaker
creates glue, creates stickiness that makes the couple stronger. It's sort of that thing that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. If you can find a difference that doesn't kill you, as in your relationship, it will make you stronger by going through it together. You have to be willing to go through it together and get over it, not just ignore it, but if you do the work and you come out better for having had that incompatibility.
00:59:34
Speaker
That's awesome. I love that, man. Thank you. All right.
Conclusion and Future Discussions
00:59:40
Speaker
Mark Rosenfeld. Thank you for making time, man. Anything else you want to throw out there before we wrap up? No, just thank you for having me, man. I really appreciate it. It went in different directions there. Yeah, let's do it again sometime. That was a treat. I would honestly love that. I know we come at these things from slightly different angles, but I really like that. I really kind of like the
00:59:58
Speaker
different perspectives and just seeing the thing from different angles. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Again, it was my pleasure being here. Thank you for making time, man. Mark Rosenfeld, you can find him all over the internet. The book is called Make Him Yours, beating the odds of modern dating. Thank you for making time, brother. You're so welcome. Thank you for having me. All right.
01:00:24
Speaker
That was my quick chat with Mark Rosenfeld. I hope you enjoyed it. Go find his book, make him yours. You can find him on YouTube. He makes a lot of great content. He's all over the internet. Go search for him and you'll find him. I really, really appreciate him. Mark, thank you for coming on, man.
01:00:43
Speaker
And again, congratulations on your recent wedding. That's so exciting.
Promoting Mark's Work and Final Thoughts
01:00:50
Speaker
And yeah, I really like this talk. I say this all the time, but I really do hope I get to talk with Mark again. I think I'm actually going to try to reach out to previous guests soon and try to do like a check-in with some folks who maybe we did an episode. It's been a while now, maybe like a year or two ago.
01:01:08
Speaker
just to check in on folks, see how their journey is going, see if their perspectives has changed. You learn a lot from doing this whole dating thing. And if those folks are still out there dating, maybe they have some cool insight to share. But yeah, that's the episode I have for today. Mark, again, thank you so much and congratulations to my friend. And yeah, the book is Make Him Yours.
01:01:33
Speaker
Go check it out. I've ordered my copy. I'm gonna read it and maybe I'll be better prepared for the next time I chat with a Chat with mark will have more cool stuff to talk about
01:01:43
Speaker
Um, thank you as always for tuning in. Uh, if you're listening, I really appreciate it. If you have ideas, you have thoughts, anything you want to say to me, um, best way to reach me is wish you all the best pod at gmail.com. That's just wish you all the best pod at gmail.com. Um, uh, and you can find, uh, me on Instagram, although I'm on there less and less. Um, uh, yeah, thank you. I've been trying to come up with like a, like a catch phrase to end these on.
01:02:14
Speaker
And one time I was in a shuttle bus from the airport to this little beach resort spot that I went to to kind of take a break one time. And I was in the bus with a bunch of undergrads who were on spring break because I totally didn't realize that I was vacationing during spring break. And they got to talking to me on the drive and it turned out they were a bunch of undergrads going to school where I went to school for undergrad. So they asked me a bunch of questions and wanted to know
01:02:43
Speaker
It was kind of cute. They sort of saw me as like somebody who had walked the path a little bit. And they asked me when I was leaving to get out to go to my hotel. They asked if I had any advice and I had nothing. So I thought about it and I was like, what should I have said? You know, like you think of that witty comeback hours, hours later. And what I came up with was, you know, well, what I came up with is always be kind, never skip leg day.
01:03:13
Speaker
So that's what I'm going to end with on this one. Thank you all for listening and until next time.