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Laney - Ghosting & Games
33 Plays1 month ago
Laney is back! We talk ghosting, games, and lots of fun stuff. Enjoy!
Laney's Heartbreak & Relationship Coaching (let her know you heard the episode and maybe she will give you a discount?? =]? )
IG - @laneyytucker
TikTok - @laneyytucker
wishyouallthebestpod@gmail.com
music - "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch -https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Introduction to Modern Dating
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh
00:00:06
Speaker
a
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome back to wish you all the best a personal podcast about modern dating. your host Scott Simmons very excited to bring you another episode. And for this one I'm being joined by repeat guest and am not so covertly campaigning to get her to be my co host here Lainey Tucker. ah Lainey welcome back how are you?
00:00:37
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me back Scott. I'm doing well how are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. it's ah It's okay. So you're in Mexico City and it's it and my's hot there? City. It's been raining a lot, but then hot. It's very unpredictable, um kind of like my Wi-Fi and everything else, technology. So apologies if any of that goes out. But um yeah, we finally are starting to get some sun, which is great. It's been a rainy last month.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Well, ah the West side of l LA misses you very much. Come back when you can. know. I miss it too. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Okay.
Ghosting Experiences and Definitions
00:01:15
Speaker
Well, let's get into it. We've got a couple of good topic ideas here.
00:01:18
Speaker
um i don't know if we'll get to all of them, but as always, let's just go for it and see where we go. um So you let me know that recently you've been dealing with some ghosting. Is that, is that like dating in Mexico city or is that like because you're like between L.A. and Mexico City right now. But has it been like, yeah, in Mexico?
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah. So I have not really been dating in l L.A. because I, you know, I put down roots here in Mexico. i'm I'm trying it out for a while, seeing if it if it sticks. But um pretty much I had like my apps, you know, set to Mexico City and that's where I've been dating. So um I have been experiencing the ghosting here. Yes.
00:01:55
Speaker
But that's not to say that there wasn't a good share of ghosting in l L.A., but I think actually it's a lot worse here. than it was in LA. Okay. Can I start? Can I start like very, very simply, can you explain like I'm a five year old?
00:02:09
Speaker
What do you consider? What do you consider ghosting to be? Because I i feel like folks have different ideas about what this is For sure. um I think ghosting is anything where you had.
00:02:20
Speaker
Well, okay, there's a few kinds of posting. The first one is just the natural ghosting that happens when you're on the apps where it's like people just stop responding, you know, before you've made plans.
00:02:30
Speaker
And I think that's a lot less bad than, for example, someone when you're mid making plans or you have a plan just falling off the face of the planet and that's the kind of ghosting that i've been experiencing here honestly don't even know if i consider before you've even met someone in person i don't know if i call that ghosting i think that's just like things circumstances can change maybe someone's no longer single um yeah you know if If you haven't actually met someone in person, i think falling off, I don't really take offense to.
00:03:03
Speaker
um I think I've done the same personally where it's just kind of like for some reason you don't feel like the conversation is really going anywhere or you know you've lost interest or whatever.
00:03:14
Speaker
um I think just described like 98% of all my matches on all the dating apps. Yeah, I think that's common. um Yeah. But you know, hopefully not something to like take offense at because the reality is I think we're all very inundated and overwhelmed. You know, you have various matches, you have people that you're meeting in real life.
00:03:33
Speaker
um You have work, you have life. So I think um someone falling off before you actually go out, I don't think should be taken personally. It's probably like a them thing. I agree.
00:03:45
Speaker
But what I have a really big issue with and what's been happening here – um I've had a few different circumstances. So I've had where i have a plan to go out with somebody and you know day before, day of, they just say literally nothing.
00:04:02
Speaker
There's no confirmation. There's no even acknowledgement that a date was supposed to happen. And this is after like you know confirmation, setting of time and place, all of that. And then it's like, because there was no follow-up, I just was kind of like, okay, well, I'm assuming that it's off then.
00:04:17
Speaker
um
Dating Approaches and Communication
00:04:18
Speaker
And then, you know, never heard from them again kind of a thing, which I think that's pretty egregious once you've actually kind of set a date. That's pretty bad in my opinion. So that's one kind that I've been experiencing. Another kind that I've been experiencing is like a little less egregious, but still bad where you've set a date and relative time that you're going to meet up and then they just drop off and you never hear from them again.
00:04:45
Speaker
so And then another one is like, you know, where you go on a first date, it goes really well, you're setting up the second date, they have to postpone, and they ask you for different times, and you respond, and then they don't respond after that to like actually set the second date.
00:05:02
Speaker
So I've had various types of ghosting going on here. um Some more egregious than others, think – I think there's no excuse for not responding to someone that you have met when you are trying to or that you have set a specific date to see them.
00:05:22
Speaker
Like, I don't think there's any excuse for not sending a quick text sort of like, sorry, I can't make it work after all or whatever. I mean, you don't even have to try to reschedule, you know, like if you guys really didn't jive like fine.
00:05:35
Speaker
um But at least the basic communication of, hey, I'm sorry, I won't be able to make it that day after all. That's sort of the min bare minimum, I think, once either a date has been set or you've met someone in person. It's just like a common courtesy, I think.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, I feel you. I, so I personally am very old fashioned about this. I'm very like, and and I think I often feel, honestly, I feel like this is kind of bad for me sometimes because it makes me feel kind of like, um,
00:06:05
Speaker
stiff or kind of like stodgy or kind of a little too and like not cool and spontaneous you know but i'm very like hey screw um cool and spontaneous nobody likes that okay okay i'm glad to hear that because i'm neither of those things maybe the younger girls that are like not looking for something serious but sorry continue maybe maybe i don't know um yeah I don't know. maybe Maybe that's all in my head. But like i might so go ahead i can speak to my approach and what I would advise anyone to do, any man to do, which is like, I would advise, first of all, moving off of the dating app as as soon as you can. Not all women are comfortable with that, but my preference is to be texting someone rather than trying to make plans in the dating app um and like try to do a phone call.
00:06:52
Speaker
I prefer like a phone call as opposed to a FaceTime, but like just talk to each other with human voices, because I think our brains are just better at like, getting a feel for someone, right. and And I'm getting this, this gets to the ghosting thing. But like that phase where it's just like, break the ice, hey, this is what my voice sounds like this is, you know, you get a better feel for who I am. And I get a but better feel for who you are.
Culture and Impact of Dating Apps
00:07:12
Speaker
Right? I get to like, I get to go through and kind of also like check and make sure that you read my profile that you're like, for example, not someone who's looking to start a family because I can't do that.
00:07:21
Speaker
Um, But then if that goes well, um at the end of that, I usually just say, hey, you know, ah are you free? Let me reach out. You seem really great. Let's hang out. Let me reach out to you ah next week.
00:07:33
Speaker
um And we'll try to find a time to do something cool. Leave the ball in my in my court. okay I'll reach out. And then what I do is i I will actually propose like two times that I'm available and say, hey, you know would next Tuesday or Wednesday evening work? um We can do ah dinner ah somewhere in this part of it and this in this part of town.
00:07:55
Speaker
yeah um Then I let her pick which one works better for her. And if it's neither, then maybe I'll propose a third or I don't know. Usually the point of of offering two is that like if you offer just one,
00:08:06
Speaker
It can feel weird when it's a no. And then you can say, well, okay, how about this time? And I don't know, something about that just feels weirder. It feels better to kind of give two options. Yeah. Although I'd be interested to hear take. Anyway, so, i like which is all to say there's this whole, and this is maybe just like the project manager in me, but there's this whole like process that I go through to like put a Google calendar invite on my calendar that says, you know, meet this person at this place at this time.
00:08:29
Speaker
Right. Um, and then the morning of, I would always advise someone to just like confirm and I'll tell them and they say, great. Um, Elefante at eight, uh, on Tuesday sounds great.
00:08:40
Speaker
Let's do that. And I'll say, awesome. I'll reach out the morning, the morning of Tuesday, just to confirm looking forward to hanging out with you. yeah Um, and then I'll, I'll ping, you know, I'll send a text the morning. I was Hey, just checking in, making sure we're on for tonight.
00:08:53
Speaker
Um, And I don't do a whole lot of like texting in between because like, I don't really have anything to say. Like, I don't really know like what's cute or funny or like what's going to make them laugh or like, you know what mean? Um, yeah so that's, that's what I usually do.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I would say once I get to the phone call and we figure out that like, we should go on a date, here
00:09:17
Speaker
it's probably like, I would say between 50 and 75% time the date happens. the date happens um
00:09:26
Speaker
very rarely someone will just stop responding. Okay. um And every now and then, the rest of the time, if it doesn't happen, what happens is she says, when I send her the confirmation text the morning of, she says, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:09:40
Speaker
Something happened. Something came up. um I can't make it tonight. Okay. And then at that point, I can either... yeah Oftentimes at that point, I feel like I'm taking a hint and it's like, okay, well, something happened. she's not proposing a new date, then yeah, she...
00:09:54
Speaker
yeah should take that you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um ah But yeah. So anyway, and then after and then and then after that, so so after first meeting, if someone just like goes in communication, just like stops responding to texts, that's usually what I think of as ghosting. Like and everything before the first date, I usually like, I just assume that women are like constantly you know, getting just inundated with bids for their attention on dating apps.
00:10:26
Speaker
Like if I met someone in a dating app, I know she's on a dating app. And like, I think I have a pretty clear idea of how these things work. And she's just got a lot of dudes that are trying to like get on our calendar.
00:10:36
Speaker
her She's burnt out, which like totally fair totally and just kind of goes incognito on everyone. I've done that many times. Yeah, totally fair. I think that's very common. I think that's very common.
00:10:49
Speaker
um Okay, so all of that to say, of that to say, i would be curious, and and i and I don't have a, i don't know where this will go, but I would be curious with you to like just walk through like how ghosting is different for women than it is for men. Because I think a lot of sort of like dating advice or like people who think a lot about dating out there on the internet or whatever, like In the discourse for for for for dating, I think people will say like ghosting happens because we feel like we have a lot of options, right? We're in this world where we like, we probably don't actually have that many options, but we feel like we have a whole bunch options right because the dating apps are engineered to make it seem that way and blah, blah, blah. There's whole...
00:11:28
Speaker
Despite them literally sometimes giving you people you've already swiped left on. i don't know if that's happened to you, but it's happened to me a lot. And I'm like, said no. Yeah. All the time. Yeah.
00:11:40
Speaker
um No means no. um Yeah. Right. i don't know. Yeah. That's everything. But like, but you know, well, I think I would agree with with those folks who say it can really feel like you have a lot of options, right? It can. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:11:59
Speaker
You know, um on online and then in the real world, it's like, I think because honestly, I was thinking about it today and I was like, I really do wish that dating apps were never invented because i think for the first while after their inception, they were very helpful and good.
00:12:16
Speaker
And I do think actually the majority of people do meet their spouses on dating apps today. But it's also created this culture, as you say, of options, of endless swiping. It's like, you know, you can swipe on one app and when you run out, okay, why don't I download a different app, you know?
00:12:32
Speaker
Um, and it's very, I do think that that contributes a lot to the ghosting culture. Um, I think it, it, it creates a burnout, right? Because it's like in the olden days, you would kind of, yeah you would meet who you would meet and you know, you weren't like, Oh, well this person is good for these reasons, but maybe there's someone better out there.
00:12:54
Speaker
And I think a lot of people fall into that kind of trap. um but when you say olden days you mean like 20 years ago literally not that long ago not that long ago yeah i know like i'm thinking about my cousins that are you know 15 years older than me yeah it's like yeah yeah no one had apps i mean but actually honestly a lot of people um our age that you know met their significant others when they were kind of yeah on the younger side. like There were an ops. It is very new.
00:13:22
Speaker
um i like what you said about ghosting. I do agree. think anything... would agree that anything before... a first date I don't normally consider that bad or that much of ghosting unless you guys have already set a date do you know what saying like unless someone's already said okay let's have dinner on Tuesday yeah And then they just go completely dark. I think that is ghosting because imagine I've already set aside time for this person, right? It's like I'm planning my week and I'd set aside Tuesday dinner for this person.
00:14:00
Speaker
And so then if they go dark on me, And I don't realize, you know, kind of same thing. Like if by that morning they haven't confirmed, I'm like, okay, I'm going to assume it's not on and I make other plans.
00:14:13
Speaker
But that was time that I held in my calendar for at least a bit. And I turned down other plans. Maybe I can figure out a plan that last minute. Maybe I just enjoy like a nice night in.
00:14:24
Speaker
But the fact of the matter is I did hold time for you. So I do think that's still very inconsiderate. I agree. I do think, honestly, ah one of the things that I would advise someone like when you're thinking about dating is like, think about your time as your most valuable asset, like what you're spending time doing, whether it's like swiping, spending your attention, swiping during the day, um or, you know, as you're talking about how you're spending your time um with friends, building community, or taking a chance on meeting somebody new. Like it's, and I think it's good to consider your time a very valuable resource.
00:14:55
Speaker
And it's very respectful to to understand that someone else's time is is very valuable to them. Yeah. I get that. I don't think I'm going I don't think I'm going to like fight you on like, is, is it ghosting to flake on a first date or is it just flaking?
00:15:09
Speaker
That's a good question. i don't know, but it sucks either way. That's for sure. I think flaking is very different than ghosting though. Like flaking, if they, a couple hours before are like, i can't go anymore. Sorry.
00:15:23
Speaker
That's flaking because it is pretty, it is pretty last minute. So that is still kind of screwing me over. But it's not ghosting. Ghosting is like completely just like ignoring the – like literally, I still haven't heard a word from these people that I was supposed to have dates with. you know it's It's kind of wild to me. So i like that point is like think – I would add to you know taking everyone's time, viewing it as valuable. I would add to that.
00:15:51
Speaker
Think of how you would want someone to treat – or how you would want to be treated with your own time. Right. Like, would it feel good to you if you held aside time for somebody and, you know, didn't plan a night out with your boys or like, you know, didn't go to like whatever events you could have gone to that you turned down because you had already had this date planned?
00:16:13
Speaker
that's not a good feeling for anyone. So obviously things come up, but like, you know, at least communic communicate if something does come up, ah yeah you know, and I think people, you know, people can change their minds. Like I've definitely been
Gender Experiences and Strategies on Dating Apps
00:16:26
Speaker
in positions before where I have a date scheduled and I'm like, oh my gosh, honestly, that sounds so exhausting right now.
00:16:32
Speaker
um you know, I'm feeling very burnt out from dating or whatever. And I have just changed my mind. And and I have communicated that of like, hey, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to make it I have a lot going on right now.
00:16:44
Speaker
But like, you know, just try as best you can to just be respectful with like the amount of time that you're giving that person, like the amount of notice, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker
and And I do kind of want to get back to like how this is different for men and for women. But like, the The other side of this, I think, is that like, you know what, if someone ghosts you, if someone doesn't do you the respect of like showing you that your time is valuable and understanding that ultimately you've lost an evening, but you dodged a bullet, right?
00:17:13
Speaker
yeah That's not someone who you want to be vulnerable with or get to know. Like that's just a, that's just a deal breaker out the gate. Like you. That's a person that's showing you they cannot communicate from the get go.
00:17:24
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, so I think I'm going to steal this from Matt Hussey, who's like a very popular sort of dating advice guy, but like he says, you need to, you need to respect someone, then you need to love someone, then you need to like have some kind of future together.
00:17:36
Speaker
But that first one respecting someone, like you can learn that right away, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Cause if, if they can just ghost you like that, they don't respect you or your time. Yeah. So, I'm curious. Okay. and And again, I don't know where this goes, but I'm interested to just talk it out with you.
00:17:50
Speaker
I'm interested to investigate um like how how ghosting might be different for men and for women, right? because right because Because there's this process of like matching, chatting, deciding you're interested, maybe switching to texts, making a plan, showing up, like the the whole like sales pipeline to the first date, right?
00:18:08
Speaker
okay it's It's a bit different for men and for women, right? For for all kinds of reasons, um ah you know, men, like for for me, that that match and like chatting with someone and getting to where we're actually getting that phone call where we can talk, that's pretty far for that's pretty rare.
00:18:23
Speaker
So for me to get that far and then, and and i I don't think I'm unique. I think a lot of guys struggle and maybe I am because I'm a little bit older, so I'm probably not getting as many matches as other guys, but I think in general men get fewer matches than women, right? That's just kind the way the think that's been proven. Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah. And so- And I actually do believe that because like, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think that you're doing this because you're, you know, a much more emotionally intelligent man that's looking for like an actual real connection.
00:18:53
Speaker
But my sense is that guys literally will just like swipe right, like without even thinking, just like, Because then I'll get these matches with these guys and it's like, I don't even think they have looked at my profile. They know they're asking me the most basic shit that's on my profile. And I'm like, yeah obviously you put no thought into this. Maybe you were just like, oh, she's hot. Or like maybe they literally just swipe right on everyone and see who swipes on them back.
00:19:19
Speaker
Whereas women are very intentional. So the reason that men get fewer matches is like, I'm reading your whole profile before I'll give you a right swipe. Even if I think you're hot, I'm reading your whole profile.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah. So like to your point, like we would never be able to match Scott because like I do really want kids. So if yeah I so came across your profile and I'm like, oh, looks like a cute guy. Nice. But I would scroll down and I would see that you don't want kids. And I would say, okay, well I do. So I'm going to swipe left even, you know, even if otherwise I thought it could be a good match or whatever. So I think women on the whole, and I'm, i'm you know, I'm also in the phase of like very taking this very seriously and intentionally, which Some women for sure don't, but I think on the whole, we do swipe more intentionally.
00:20:06
Speaker
if that makes men feel any better about the fewer matches that they're getting, they're saving themselves actually a lot of heartache because women are doing the, like we're doing sort of the the filtering process upfront.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, there's lot in there. I think, okay, so I think one of the, so I think that's right. I mean, I don't know, but I believe it. And all of the dating apps are very opaque, or at least as far as I've found, they're opaque about releasing their data on all kinds of stuff.
00:20:34
Speaker
But what I've heard and what I've seen and what seems believable to me is that they say men on average swipe right 50% the time. On, Oh my God. honestly, Scott, I'm like, I might swipe right. Like 1% of the time. If I go on and go on a little swiping spree and I swipe right on one guy, it's like, wow, I found a guy that I would actually maybe go out with. Like that's big for me.
00:20:59
Speaker
yeah So I also have very few matches because I'm so selective. So I don't get like a shit ton of matches either. Cause it's like, I'm, I'm not swiping right on very many people.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah. I think that that's, that so that is the approach that I would advise women to take. I would generally, i think a lot of like dating advice is trying to convince women to be less picky. Like a lot of the books, a lot of the like seminars, a lot of the, but I do think, I do think it's wise to be very picky at the swiping stage um because, you know, your your chances of matching are pretty high. Your chances of matching as a woman are like one in three to 50% or whatever.
00:21:35
Speaker
So if you're going if you're going swipe right on somebody, i think you should be prepared to like, chat with that person, like, like, assume that they're gonna that you're gonna match and assume that it might that might go somewhere.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. um That's good advice. Well, okay. And so and so and I think there are other interesting things that and you're right, I need to make my like, top five things that I want to teach men about dating, like, Instagram reel or whatever it is. like Yeah, got to get you on Insta.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, you have to help me. I'm so bad at it. But I do think, right, I do think, okay, there's a very interesting book by woman named Rebecca Traister talking about how a lot of young women are just opting out of dating. The book is called All the Single Ladies. Highly recommend it.
00:22:14
Speaker
um so There are just some women who are like, you know what? The prospect of dating is not appealing to me. Having a boyfriend or a partner is not a great idea. I'm just going to focus on my friends and my community and my career. and like if I want to hook up with somebody, it's not that hard. So like, right.
00:22:28
Speaker
Right. which just so a lot of women are just like opting out, which I think makes a lot of sense for them. um And also I think, ah you know, we live in a society where we've decided that men are attractive when they're successful and women are attractive when they're young, um which is totally fucked. And I don't love it. And if I could wave a wand and change it, I would.
00:22:49
Speaker
What that means is that you have men sort of age range 25 to like, fifty 50, 55 hitting on women, 25 to like 35, 37, 38. You know what I mean?
00:23:00
Speaker
And so it's just a larger pool. Unless we talk about what's going on in the reverse, which is older women starting to date younger men. And I, I kind of love that trend.
00:23:11
Speaker
cracky so I love, I love that. So the cougar trend, i love it so much. i think the reason it happens is because the younger guys, um The younger guys aren't dating women their age.
00:23:24
Speaker
So so yeah Q does this, I have to link it, but I have to send you the thing, but yeah um it's wild. um six Something like, what is it? 66% of men aged 20 to 30, 66% of men aged 20 to 30 are single.
00:23:41
Speaker
33% of women in that same age bracket are single. So there's a third of women who are dating somebody but it's not dudes in their age bracket. And I think it's, I think it's older men. I don't think those are all, you know, lesbians or dating women, which is, which is, theseta which is all, dick and'll I'll send you the thing for it if you want, but, but which is all to say to come back to, I do think there are just more men both on the dating apps and in the dating market than there are,
00:24:11
Speaker
women or at least women that that those men are chasing. right So I think if you are a woman as you are sort of in that bracket, it's it's it's important to be, I think, as selective as possible.
00:24:23
Speaker
This is called the... um there's Somebody wrote ah wrote a cool thing about this. I think it's on Facebook, but I think there's an article about it somewhere on the internet. It's called the burning the haystack method, where instead of looking for a needle in a haystack,
00:24:36
Speaker
you use you just burn the haystack down because the needle won't burn because it's made of metal. It's funny. I'm butchering that a little bit, but it's worth okay it's worth a search if you're into it. Check it out. All that to say, all that to say, I think i think you're you're my friend, so maybe I'm biased, but I think your approach to being picky is the smart way to look for an actual connection if you're a woman, because just kind of like guessing and going for it and giving folks chances, like looking at someone's profile where you're not getting a lot of information and just guessing like, well, yeah maybe this person's really into you know things that I'm into.
00:25:11
Speaker
right As opposed to being very picky and waiting for the ones who you have a pretty good indication from just the profile, which is a very crude approximation of a person. So it's not easy.
00:25:24
Speaker
Right. But i think I
Cultural Differences in Dating
00:25:25
Speaker
think being picky is Being picky for women at the very early stage is I think, very wise. It's necessary. Otherwise, you really burn out. I mean, yeah then you know if you're talking to guys that you're not actually that excited about, I do i do agree. I think the experts try to scare you, um scare us, and be like, experts. You got to settle down.
00:25:46
Speaker
Who the fuck's an expert? Honestly, self-anointed experts that I disagree with. I think I'm much more of an expert in this field. but um I think, okay, I would agree with their take in some ways.
00:26:03
Speaker
um I think that people have gotten way too laser focused on like, you know, how tall is this guy? How much does he make? Like things like that. um But I think being picky in terms of somebody that, you know, and it's, again, it's hard to glean all of this from a profile, but yeah,
00:26:25
Speaker
I always look for very complete profiles, you know, like the guy gives a shit and he took a he took the time to like really tell me about himself and because that shows ah willingness to put in effort.
00:26:40
Speaker
And if you talk if you think about healthy, good relationships, It's effort, right? Like more so than anything else, I think that the best relationships I've seen are the ones where people prioritize one another and prioritize the relationship.
00:26:56
Speaker
And if you have a dude that's like, and this is so common, by the way, I mean, every other profile, probably more than that, most profiles, are lazily slapped together a dude that's like, no one's ever going to read this. Of course we're going to read it. We're women. Like, come on. don't think Don't think like a man. Think of like, what would a woman want?
00:27:16
Speaker
Which is information about you. Don't make me actually have to chat with you to learn like the first few things about you. I want to understand, you know, what makes you tick. I want to know, you know, I do want to know what you do for work. I do want to know your aspirations because I'm an ambitious woman and that would just, you know, not really work otherwise.
00:27:36
Speaker
um but I also, ah think that it's like, yeah, it's it's really about kind of like, tell me your story. Like, who are you? What are you looking for?
00:27:48
Speaker
ah you actually serious about this? Because you have so many guys that I just don't think are serious. And so I guess, you know, kind of going back to why, like the ghosting here and why I think it's happening.
00:27:59
Speaker
um Obviously there's some cultural things I've, you know, I've chatted with my Mexican girlfriends about it and been like, why do you think this is happening? um And, you know,
00:28:10
Speaker
I do think here in Mexico and in some like, I don't want to overgeneralize, but some of these guys here in Mexico, from what I've been told, are looking for like the ego boost.
00:28:21
Speaker
They're not actually looking for a girlfriend. They're looking for, oh this hot girl, you know, matched with me and like was down to go out on a date with me. That's all I need.
00:28:33
Speaker
And also potentially a self-defense mechanism of like, she's going to find out that I'm not like good enough for her or that I'm not impressive and she's going to dump me and I don't want to get dumped.
00:28:44
Speaker
So I'm going to stick with just the ego boost of like having matched with her and her being interested in the first place. That's sort of my like very, I don't know. i Maybe it's out there. Maybe it's there's no truth in it, but that's kind of what I think.
00:28:59
Speaker
I think that there's a really big self-esteem crisis going on too with men right now um where they would, rather like some would rather literally not put themselves in a position to get dumped or get rejected.
00:29:13
Speaker
and so they just want the validation that like a woman would go out with them, but they like cut things short before trying. I don't know. um Yeah, that's sort of just like my intuition on the the topic, but- I buy it.
00:29:28
Speaker
I mean, I buy it. i think um you know i think i think are I think men honestly are in a pretty fragile place. I mean i guess I can only speak for myself here, but like I think you know we we society is becoming more and more um, some people describe it as antisocial. Like people are choosing to be on their phones as opposed to being like in connection with other people.
00:29:49
Speaker
And you can see this when folks are just like hanging out in the world and like, they have nothing to do. They don't like chat up the person next to them. They pull out their phone, you know? yeah Um, and not to be one of those people that like blames their phone for everything, but like,
00:30:02
Speaker
I think there's a lot you can blame. phone There's a lot of blame. There's a lot. I know. um
Loneliness and Emotional Availability
00:30:06
Speaker
I'm even thinking back to like kind of earlier to earlier twenty ten s when like people weren't necessarily on their phones all the time. You would be like commuting to work or whatever and like people might chat to you on the bus or you know i was living in San Francisco for part of that time. It was more social.
00:30:26
Speaker
it was it was more social Yeah. Yeah. but So, which is to say, I think, I think, I think we're probably all a bit more lonely than we used to be. yeah Um, but I do, I, I buy it. I believe that I believe in the, the male loneliness epidemic, you know, like I believe that men, we are just not socialized to have the tools and the techniques and the templates of like how to build platonic intimacy. We were just not as good as French at friendships as women. Um, and so I think what we ended up doing is we overload
00:30:59
Speaker
i think I think essentially we overload sex as intimacy. I think we romantic connection is the only way that we feel like we are allowed to experience intimacy. And so it makes it very, very, very high stakes to kind of get back to your sort of your your theory on why men are ghosting.
00:31:16
Speaker
It makes it very high stakes because any romantic connection, um i think particularly because you might not have them you might not have the opportunity that often, like if I only get a match a month or so, like that first date, the the stakes are pretty high.
00:31:31
Speaker
um yeah And so maybe, and I, I, I bought, I, I should say like, that's never been my experience. Once I get to, I have, where I have a match, I probably, me personally, I'm probably,
00:31:43
Speaker
too ready to go out with somebody where I think either they might not like me or I might not like them. I'm i'm working on that. i recently, well, anyway, I'm working on that. That's my journey. But like, i believe there are men who are having the experience that you're having and are saying to themselves, well, it's better to just kind of quit while I'm ahead yeah rather than- That's my take.
00:32:05
Speaker
I think it's a good take. Okay. What's the delta between, or what's the difference between right, like l LA and Mexico in this? Like, is, I mean, obviously not to generalize too much, but like, do feel like there's a cultural shift there or difference? Huge. Huge.
00:32:20
Speaker
They're much, well, just in general, they're more blase about canceling plans. ah like Even with friends. So I guess I shouldn't be that shocked that that's extrapolating. More flaky than people in LA? So much more. it' It's not even funny.
00:32:35
Speaker
People in LA look like fucking committed gods and goddesses. It's it's funny. Yeah. No, it's why people People flake a lot. um So, I mean, um i don't tend to keep friends around that flake all the time. It's just tiring to me. So, um, but yeah, you have to, you have to go with the flow a lot more here. People don't confirm plans until very last minute, things like that.
00:32:58
Speaker
So there are some cultural elements that like don't have anything to do with dating that are just part of the culture here in Mexico. that are then bleeding into the dating culture where people are much flakier.
00:33:11
Speaker
But I'm not going to fault someone here for like, you know, flaking kind of what I would consider a last minute because I've had friends do the same. What I am faulting them for though is ghosting entirely, falling off the face of the planet. I don't think that's okay anywhere.
00:33:27
Speaker
um So I guess big picture differences – um Yeah, there's a lot, honestly. um Not to overgeneralize, but you've got a lot more like machismo down here where like you know right men behave poorly and it's not really thought of as that big of a deal.
00:33:48
Speaker
um especially like i mean I've had a couple of situations where guys that I can only suspect are married or like have someone serious that they're dating or like pursuing me because of the way that they're like, oh, I can't see you on these days. and I'm like, okay, well, we all know, you know, like that's fishy as hell.
00:34:07
Speaker
So I do think that that happens a lot more here than then would happen LA. um i just haven't heard of stories like that really where people are like leading double lives um in LA. So you just have to be a lot more wary here.
00:34:24
Speaker
um i have not had the most positive experience being truthful. But, you know, there's there's bad everywhere. So, um but yeah, I think on the whole, there's a lot more bad behavior here than l LA, which is shocking that i that's even coming out of my mouth. Because I think, you know, i LA and York, what, they're like the two worst cities in the US to date.
00:34:44
Speaker
um But, you know, I do think people are more considerate, or at least the people that I swipe right on. Because again, yeah I'm very particular about who I'm swiping right on. I'm swiping right on men that
Organic Connections and Community
00:34:56
Speaker
are thoughtful in their profiles which in turn I think makes them thoughtful people but then here it's like I'm also swiping right on men that have thoughtful profiles but it seems more culturally accepted for them to kind of act like pieces of shit hear you I hear you and thank you for sharing that yeah um okay wow there's a couple interesting directions I want to go from there um
00:35:21
Speaker
can i can Can I just like take a hard left and talk about kind of what you do look for? Because- Yeah. Okay. I would consider, i hear a lot of women say, and this is kind of a big shift here, but but I'm interested in this.
00:35:33
Speaker
I hear a lot of women say that like what they're looking for is, or women, ah hear a lot of people say that women are dissatisfied with dating because what they're looking for is men who are emotionally available.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yes. you You're aware of this? You've heard of this? Oh yeah. And i agree. Okay. how How do you go about looking for someone who is emotionally available in those like early... like When you're swiping, how do you look at someone's picture of with them holding a fish and say, like ah, this right there. You know what i mean? um my God. Well, the ones with the fish have not been to therapy um or you know not been have not been on the internet to see how bashed they are and how they should change their ways. Maybe it's an ironic fish picture. i dont Okay, fine.
00:36:19
Speaker
Maybe it's ironic. Maybe it's ironic. um that's a big to answer your question you can't know right away right you can't know but when you're swiping on someone unless they talk about it like i do say on my profile that like i'm looking for someone that's been in therapy so i will have men that will respond you know chat to me about that so you know that's a way to know up front but by Not everyone that goes to therapy is emotionally available. And unfortunately I've realized too, that not all therapists are good therapists.
00:36:53
Speaker
There are some bad therapists that literally just parrot whatever you want to hear and don't challenge you. So guys, as you're, as you're looking for a therapist, make sure you interview like more than one person and have it be a person that's going to challenge you because that's the only way that you're going to grow.
00:37:10
Speaker
Like if they just agree with you and they're like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. Whatever. Like, why the fuck are you there? Like that you could talk to a wall in that case, you know? Um, so yeah, or chat GPT.
00:37:20
Speaker
Um, yeah, God, true. Chat GPT does not challenge you. So I would not take therapy advice from, from that. Um, but okay. So I think it's like, I'm trying to think how I would originally identify emotional availability in someone and how I can tell.
00:37:36
Speaker
I think it's in the way that they carry themselves and they communicate, right? It's like, first of all, they're really upfront with what they're looking for and they know what they're looking for. Um, I like to see that on a profile, you know, like what a guy's looking for.
00:37:49
Speaker
um From there, obviously, people can lie and say whatever they want. So then it's all about action. So for women, you know i think we we don't trust words anymore. We trust action.
00:38:03
Speaker
So if a man is you know showing up consistently, communicating consistently, you know consistent and continuing to want to take you out, um asking thoughtful questions,
00:38:15
Speaker
showing you know genuine interest in getting to understand you, understand what you're about, um you know a man that remembers things that you've told him because he's actually listening.
00:38:29
Speaker
um Those are the signs in early dating that I would look for um to know if someone is emotionally mature and available and sort of where they're at.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's tricky, right? Because think i think I mean, that all sounds correct. and and And that makes perfect sense to me for a guy that can be frustrating because I think where most, because I think most men, and this is correct. Like most men feel like where they get overlooked is in the swiping phase.
00:39:00
Speaker
You know, like I i feel like it's it's a ah shot in the dark. If I swipe right on somebody and I think, oh my gosh, She talks about going to therapy in her profile. She's a Dungeons and Dragons fan. And one of her profile pics is her like you know deadlifting. She's like your dream girl.
00:39:15
Speaker
yeah this is we're gonna we're gonna ah Yeah, it's going to be amazing. I feel like if I send her a super swipe or any kind of whatever the what whatever variety of like I'm sending, yeah i i feel like there's about a 1% chance that I even show up on her screen.
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, she can't even see it. Yeah. and And I think it's good to know that. That's ah that's something that I would tell men that like just know that like if you're not getting um you you know, matches, it's not because it's not always because people are seeing you and saying no. It's often because- Most the time it's not.
00:39:46
Speaker
Because, you know, another thing to keep in mind, I think I'm among the minority of women that pay for like better version of dating apps because I- Yeah, most women don't.
00:39:56
Speaker
Right. Most women don't. I didn't used to. and By the way, the two times that I've met people that I've fallen in love with on dating apps, I had the free version. Like I didn't even have the paid version. but I have the paid version now because it got very exhausting to me to swipe on such a large quantity.
00:40:12
Speaker
I wanted to see only the men that fit within my criteria and I have very specific filters. So that's why I pay for it. So now because I pay for it, I can see who has liked me. But like, you know, a guy might see my profile and he doesn't fit into my criteria, so I'm not going to see him at at all.
00:40:29
Speaker
Or a girl that doesn't pay for the paid version, she's not going to like get to see who has liked her. She's just going – So if imagine a woman like honestly I can tell you speaking for my friends, we are burnt the fuck out, right? Everyone's burnt out. It's like it's just not – hear this all the time. Yeah.
00:40:47
Speaker
And so women will literally just like go on a hiatus. Like she might have a bumble still that she hasn't checked. Or that she'll like swipe five times and be like, oh God, and like get right back off.
00:41:00
Speaker
So she's not seeing you and rejecting you. Odds are she's not seeing your profile at all. And that's where you just kind of have to like, honestly, this might sound woo woo, but like,
00:41:11
Speaker
Just have faith that like the right person for you, if you're meant to meet them on an app, they'll see your profile. Like there's really no way to go around it. You just kind of have to trust sometimes, you know, do all the right things and then just have faith.
00:41:26
Speaker
i have to I have to send you, did I send you the Google? to um i' I'm taking your advice and I'm trying to manifest. I'll send you the Google Doc. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Okay. For context everybody, I told Scott. And everyone should do this.
00:41:40
Speaker
um I've had massive success every time I've done it. So I want you to write a very specific list. of what you're looking for in a partner. And here's also the thing is like, I don't want everyone so hyper-focused on like what they look like, you know, obviously right on your list, like you're very attracted to them, but like, don't, I guess,
00:42:03
Speaker
focus so much on that focus more on like the feeling that you have when you're with this person and like things that you do together and you know ways that you receive their love and things like that so i mean every time i've done this i swear it's gone so well i mean obviously you know preferences change over time and each relationship you learn something from But I got to say, you know, there's something to be said for manifesting your person. And women are doing this left and right, by the way, guys. So I think more men need to be doing it and and just having faith.
00:42:38
Speaker
So, yeah, I can't wait to see your list, Scott. i'm I'm sure I did some of it wrong. And I don't know, between the two of us, i'm I'm happy for you to be kind of like the witchy partner and I can be kind of the skeptical partner here, but I'm trying. I'm i'm open and I'm trying and I'm not- Just try.
00:42:53
Speaker
What the fuck does it hurt? At least, and did yeah at the very least, even if you don't believe that there's some universal force involved in bringing this person to you, at least you've done an exercise for yourself that's very helpful of like, what actually matters to me in a partner? What's what's important?
00:43:10
Speaker
And you know you want to have kind of your few non-negotiables and the others are nice to haves, I would call them. so that way when you're actually dating and when you're swiping on women and it's like, you know if you're the stat says or whatever, swiping on 50% of women, do 50% of women actually fall into what you're looking for in a partner? right Probably not.
00:43:29
Speaker
So then you get it all bent at a joint that you're not getting enough matches or whatever. Like, do you even want those matches? I think it really just helps you like, um, you know, dissect kind of exactly what you are looking for quality wise and just helps you be a lot more discerning. So it saves you a lot of time and energy, honestly.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah. i I, so I love the trusting the universe thing. i think, um well, I want to love the trusting the universe. I'm working on it. It's worked for me. It's going to work for you too.
00:44:01
Speaker
I love that for you. i for men, what I would say is i just, I just don't know if I can recommend the dating apps. I know it's true that more than half people who, are more than half of all people who are in relationships now met their partner on the internet, which is wild to me.
00:44:16
Speaker
um
Authenticity vs. Playing Games
00:44:17
Speaker
But I don't know if we're turning a corner or if I'm just kind of, cranky about it, but like, I would advise folks to like go and do things like join clubs, find a thing, go to beach tennis, join a Dungeons and Dragons meetup, like do the things that you like to do and see if you can meet people there.
00:44:35
Speaker
I agree with that. You know what mean? Because I think for, I don't know for guys, like I'm, and maybe I'm just jaded, but like at this point, trusting the dating app companies to come through, just, I'm,
00:44:47
Speaker
I'm skeptical. I don't even know if it's the fault of the dating app companies. I think it's just, it's everything we've just been talking about. It's collective burnout.
00:44:58
Speaker
It's yeah honestly, unfortunately, and I have a whole rant that I want to go on about this, but like, um i think that bro code and like men behaving poorly is shooting all of you in the foot.
00:45:14
Speaker
I was just thinking about this. I was like, you know, for example, ah dude like, you know, is constantly ghosting girls and flaking or like, you know, has like, is lying to girls and saying that he wants a relationship just to bang them or whatever. Like,
00:45:30
Speaker
And men looking the other way and being like, oh, well, that's my bro. And I'm a good guy. So I'm never going to do something like that. So that doesn't affect me. it does affect you guys though. I think that's really what I want to convey is like bad behavior on the part of some reflects poorly on all of you. Cause now women don't know how to distinguish. We're like, okay, well, I might like this guy on the dating app, but is he going to ghost me? Is he going to waste my time? Is he going to tell me he wants a relationship, but he really wants a situation ship?
00:45:59
Speaker
I think that's where we're all at is that we have this collective mistrust of men's intentions and like men not wasting our time. And so i think, honestly, I think the way forward is men holding other men accountable because it's a bad look for all of you guys, right? Because it's like, we can't tell, we can't tell the difference, you know? And, and so i think this whole old school notion of like bros protect protecting bros and, you know,
00:46:28
Speaker
letting them do whatever, like cheat, like ghost girls, whatever. It's, it's all coming back to bite all the men. So if, if I could make that plug to your, I think mostly male audience to start holding your male friends accountable to re-earn the trust of women, i think that's also a good start. But yeah, we're, I think we're fatigued. So I agree. I think, um,
00:46:52
Speaker
I think for now, you know, go to stuff in person. There's so many things, um you know, and if if you're not going to meet necessarily like the one at an event, maybe you'll meet a friend that will introduce you to the one.
00:47:06
Speaker
I mean, Scott and I met at Beach Tennis and here we are making a podcast, you know, yeah you you like by going to activities, you just expand your network in general. um i think there's also a ton of like in real life singles events going on and in every city around the world. So, um you know, that might be a good approach for now. Like greg group group up a couple of of your friends and and go check it out. You know, you you never know what you might find.
00:47:34
Speaker
yeah that's very fair. Okay, there's a lot in there and I'm taking notes and these are definitely things that I want to go deep into. um in the future. So I want to put a pin in all of that.
00:47:44
Speaker
Okay. um ah um Because I think this, well, I i don't know exactly how to pivot into this, but like, I do kind of want to get to this. um Well, okay. um The next thing we had on the docket was was talking about game, right?
00:48:00
Speaker
Basically, like yeah um the little things we do, like don't text back after a certain number of days or I mean, you know, things we do. How would I describe game? Like things you do to appear how would I describe Like more like smooth or like suave whatever. Yeah. like to two I think the basically, I think basically, and this might be saying a lot about me, but I think basically the core of like quote unquote game is like seeming, attempting to seem more in demand than you are. Right. um
00:48:32
Speaker
By like seeming busy or, you know, not, not texting back quickly or, or not, not making it to, or like being flaky or, you know, you know not being able to like yeah actually connect with someone whether that's yeah texting back or calling on the phone or showing up on time doest make sense yeah i want to talk about game and here's my one liner for you games are for children
00:49:02
Speaker
i'm out to hear what this whole game shit um don't do it don't play them unless you're an immature man seeking an immature woman or vice versa like if you r petty and immature go right ahead but if you're an actual adult um looking for a real connection and relationship don't play games it's so dumb honestly anytime i get the immediate ic if i notice a guy like waiting a certain amount of time like
00:49:35
Speaker
noticing how long i took or whatever i'm like oh it's such a turnoff and i'll just instantly respond when i see it cause i'm like i don't play games i don't give a shit i think really what it is is like be authentic don manufacture like being too busy to respond but there will be times that you will literally be too busy to respond because we're grownups and we have jobs and lives so yeah i think it's like one of those things where if you happen to be on your phone you can totally respond and if you happen to be in a meeting
00:50:07
Speaker
cool you respond when you get out of your meeting um i really am very irritated by the whole concept of games and you know i'm not faulting anyone but like i do think you know if if if so get the x because you were bond quickly because you happen to be on your phone that falls into the same category of like you know what we were talking about earlier with ghosting like they did you a favor they're showing that they're super super immature right do you
00:50:38
Speaker
that's why do do you think ah so i would i would assume that you're an outlier i would assume and i could be wrong but i would assume that a lot of women um and and maybe this is totally judgmental and wrong now that i think about it but like i would assume that there are many women who you know are looking for something serious are hoping to find actual connection but i think a lot of kind of and everyone's on social media now so i think ahll ah ah big part of the sort of like dating discourse is around like getting the ic if you will but like
00:51:09
Speaker
i think there's a lot of sort of cultural maybe that's not the right word but there are a lot of like i think it's kind of like admirable in a way for women to find a reason to be turned off right i think somehow that's become like a like a yeah a good gather in a way it's like cha about the egg like i yeah i mean i get i from someone being a child and playing games that's about but like
00:51:39
Speaker
i'm not being very articulate here but i i mean and tell me if you think i'm wrong because i so of course i respect your opinion here but like yeah like i do think there's this trend where and think it's like a way to sort of like and i don't mean like virtue signal like be fake about it but like to to to demonstrate your value as a person to f for a lot of women because they're because they're so in demand because like that dating age like bracket of women are dealing are are overwhelmed are overwhelmed and burnt out that there's a
00:52:10
Speaker
that there's a piece of it where it's like in order to be relatable you kind of have to you kind of want to say oh this thing really turns me off isn't that weird i get the ick from this and i kind of wonder if it's like a ah signal that women can send to say like oh my gosh aren't we all so burnt out or or how how are we all dealing with like this much inbound attention yeah um interesting does it kind of make sense this is totally off the wall but i don't know um yeah i mean and this
00:52:40
Speaker
yeah i think there's a lot to unpack with like the x stuff and i i think it's also quite immature um if you notice the creators of that sort of content they're not women in their thirty s and above they're women that's fair funny um when i was in my twenty s a lot did give me the ic to be so honest because i was yeah immature i was immature and i wasn't serious about finding a partner i was just i was dating and i was like wella i don't like this guy now because of this thing but now
00:53:12
Speaker
you know i'm serious about finding someone so i don't really get the a like i get the ak if someone's not congruent right and you so going back to your point because i think this is a really important distinction okay so i think if a guy or girl cancel their are existing plans in life for someone new that's not good i see um and i've been there i mean i've been there where god we you know
00:53:43
Speaker
where i've fallen in love so hard with someone and they've fallen love so hard back that like nothing else matters and we cancel everything and it works out okay not in the long term really because you want to make sure you maintain like an essence of yourself but in the short term but it most of the time i think to your point of like you know being too available or whatever it's all about being genuine so like hope and if people aren't at this place then i would say this is where you start is make your life rich enough without another person
00:54:15
Speaker
like have hobbies have stuff that go to have friends have plans and so when someone enters your life it's like you know and you're looking at your schedule for that week you're not like oh i'm completely wide open and so i have to lie to this person to tell them that i have planned certain days like you want to actually be living a full life and then kind of be like okay well you know i've got beach tennis this day dungeons and dragons this day whatever like whatever stuff yeah i this is this is scott's schedule
00:54:47
Speaker
it's literally schedule do yeah whatever stuff you have like offer to the person the days that you don't already have plans does that make sense like <unk> cancel your plans for them but don't also be somebody that has a fully open schedule because then think about it you're probably not that attractive to the opposite gender if you don't have anything going on for yourself right like i think the first thing that makes someone interesting is like you know we all have to work sure like what do you do for work
00:55:19
Speaker
but also what do you like to do for fun i'm not very attracted to a person that has no hobbies and has no friends and so if that's kind of where you're at and you're like looking at i have a bunch of open times so i have to lie and play this game so she doesn't think i'm a loser well why don't you just start by not being a loser and start doing stuff you know i guess i mean i but that makes all sense and yeah i guess i would advise anyone i mean but outside of dating not even a dating thing is yeah you's your life you get one life's your life wanna to do
00:55:51
Speaker
we like to do i like even i remember yeah and this also i think as adults sometimes that's a hard question because you know we're so busy and burnt out and stuff i think sometimes it can be helpful to go back to childhood of like what did you used to love to do you haven't done in a minute like find a club or a league or whatever and start there so yeah yeah i mean that's just life advice but will also make you that much more appealing to a partner yeah i mean if you're doing something that makes your inner child happy
00:56:22
Speaker
then maybe you'll meet somebody there who whose's inner child but one of i think maybe i'll meet someone that like has that same hobby i mean yeah yeah that's ideal i think okay to to couple more things on this what about like when you're in ah dating like when you go through the process of like matching ah swiping matching chatting yeah do you does it ever feel like a turnoff when someone like for example if you okay so here's something that happens men men kind of have to be vigilant i think on the dating apps i think you kind of have to have your notifications on
00:56:58
Speaker
because you get matches so rarely and tell me if i'm wrong but my strategy with matching is i'll get a notification that you matched with stacey um on on a dating app and i will usually wait until and this is this is kind of embarrassing to admit but i will wait until like ah weekday usually monday tuesday or wednesday sometime during the day to send the first message um
00:57:29
Speaker
because i don't want to
Dating App Strategies and Attractiveness
00:57:31
Speaker
message her like immediately after matching because i feel like when she's swiping she's maybe not in a head space to chat with me but i'm i guessing that if she works if she works like monday through friday if she works a nine to five that somewhere in there she'll have a break or she'll have lunch where she might have time to actually chat and my goal in chatting and like the in the chat on a dating app
00:58:00
Speaker
is to build rapport quickly enough to to basically get to like hey do you want to do an old-fashed phone call sometime and break the ice yeah like because i feel like i just don't learn anything about somebody while i'm chatting on a dating app i feel like it's just so hard to get a feel for someone so that's like my strategy there but i guess my question there because but that's kind of game right we're kind of talking about yeah i would call the second modern do not like that approach at all i'm okay you my hit me with it yeah um but again be the minority i
00:58:32
Speaker
i don't know i think you know ah you i love the children children love games games are for kids ah there's a lot of kids there's a lot of kids ingrowed people's bodies out there unfortunately just have to be aware of that but if you're looking for a mature woman um ah a shit when you messenger honestly i actually like i just take it as a big compliment if they message me right away it's like oh okay they really are into me cool but guys remember from the woman's perspective
00:59:04
Speaker
we are swiping right on very few people so if we've chosen to swipe right on you we are interested so i i don't think there's anything wrong with messaging pretty quickly like i actually like that um that and another thing that i'll say is i to test small talk ah hate it yeah i have asked out so many men literally i'm usually the one that does the asking out because i cannot stand this much the the small talk like
00:59:37
Speaker
honestly right away like i will find something and that's why it pays to have a profile that is robust with all of your interests because maybe you guys will see that you have a common interest or whatever and you know you can be like oh you know saw that you like to play tennis do you want to do you want to hit this weekend like a personally love it when a du does that or or like i guess for for your approach for you know having a phone call which um i like doing that too you know
01:00:07
Speaker
someone being like oh you know would love would love to like jump on the phone and and come up with a ah ah good time to to hit together you know to play tennis together whatever like i think you can say you can use sort of like the use something from her profile because hopefully you guys are also swipe i will say in the reverse ah woman that doesn't put any ah effort into her profile is also not high effort person i would advise against swiping right on a woman that's attractive but as put in no effort
01:00:40
Speaker
ah agreed if you can't figure out who she is somewhat from her profile she's not worth swiping on but you know hopefully she'll give you some clues in there of hobbies that she likes or whatever enough that like quickly i would say like one or two messages you're asking her like hey you know but you want to jump on a for for people that like the call method i would say like hey um you know would love would love to find a time to play tennis like do you want to jump on a call's like you know align schedules or whatever like use that as a pretense
01:01:12
Speaker
obviously then you're just testingsing out whether you vibe or if you don't do the phone call method just like you know hey would love to take you to play tennis what is your we can look like or whatever like when like action we like guys to ask us out and guys are not doing that and i actually think that's a big part of what's contributing to the burnout for me if they're continuing to just chat with me i'm like i want to blow my brains out because there's so many men chaing with me right right it's if you think about the quantity of matches that we get relatively
01:01:43
Speaker
like woman that's getting an inbox flooded of small talk you want to die thinking about that cause i do and i have that at all times so be the guy that stands out and actually makes a plan right away like we think that's really hot and like you said you don't find out much about a person on a dating app like you want to just go ahead and get to the date itself and then figure it out or get to the phone call prior to the date whichever it is but like the endless chatter
01:02:13
Speaker
you're goingnna lose her she's probably going to go ghostmo eventually because she's just tired it's that's so valuable to hear that's so valuable to hear because i think because men get matches more rarely it's the the feedback that we get as we're learning what people like and what is like culturally acceptable and what works in this process the feedback we get is very sparse right so i'm thinking back to a time when i was d in san francisco and i tried that i was like hey i think i forget what it was i had saw something on a profile and i was like okay cool we can go do this thing
01:02:44
Speaker
yeah and i just shot out i was like hey listen um thanks for forget what i said something some stupid cheesy line to open up or something i don't know but i tried to take something kind of silly to make her smile and then i just kind of said like hey but you want to go do this s thing this weekend um and the response i got from her was um that's way too fast she was like no no no sorry i need to chat for a while i need to get to know you before before we can talk on the phone or go out and okay because and but but sure like hey that's her experience that's what she wants and i'm not and i think you're right i think you're correct now that i've like talked to a lot of women about this stuff
01:03:18
Speaker
i think you're correct and i think you want to get off the dating app as fast as you can meet in person as soon as you're both comfortable because you don't know anything until you're like yeah face um but like you know and happen if she says that okay cool let's keep chatting but at least you're not running the risk of a girl that does need the instant date planned just ghosting on you like imagine that you're talking to like okay so say you got me and you got that girl from san francisco right you've got me who needs an immediate date plan or i'm probably going to ghost you
01:03:50
Speaker
and then you've got the san francisco girl there's no harm and asking out on the date like you guys continued to chat didn't you now ah totally guilty she oh yeah it was just like because because she had other guys who because she had that inbox full of guys who wanted to chat with her right right and which is to say yeah do you think she actually why like this is going back to my point of do you think she actually wanted a boyfriend or wanted to on date it might be a case of a girl that's looking for validation
01:04:23
Speaker
yeah whicham think you're right and and i think you're right that actually has a lot going on in her life is looking for a significant another ah fucking time to be chit- chatting with all these men like i'm already chit- chatting with all my friends i already forget to text my friends za like any friends are listening to this i i forgot i'm sorry i have eighty h d too like to boot so it's like things where um again it just depends on the kind of woman you're going for if you're cu to play games and you know go for a woman that's petty that's
01:04:56
Speaker
looking for validation but if you're actually here looking for a meaningful connection you know shoot your shot most women like you've got tension you've got tension for a very limited period of time i will say yeah like i've never gone back to a chat like weeks later and been like oh thought guy maybe ah you know maybe we should chat again or like in a moment where i was feeling burnt out of how much he was chatting to me and not planning a day like yeah you've got that woman's attention now like don't lose it you know keep the momentum like ask her out
01:05:31
Speaker
if you actually want to go out with her i think it's really valuable here i think that's really valuable to hear because yeah like ah i mean guess what i what i was meaning to say is that like it's very easy to learn the wrong lesson from a very small number of interactions yeah guy um because they only come every so often you know so ah it's it's good to it's really valuable to hear that perspective so thank you for that um okay shocking no one we're going long you have another like fifteen minutes or should we call it quits and yeah let's
01:06:03
Speaker
maybe another ten okay um okay another time minutes um okay one quick thing i've been thinking about this idea i want to do this thing like instead of get ready with me i was thinking of doing get rejected with me and i want i want to like it's it's a little self-deprecating but i want to like go through like me swiping and like show you what i see i think you might find that interesting yeah i can show you like anyway maybe maybe for next time yes for next time but
01:06:34
Speaker
um interesting one try for for me to kind of try to analyze what happened or what just just i mean i would just love to show you like what like white women they're putting their profiles in what they're doing yeah which just said i think you'd be interested because i'm i'm i'm willing to bet but i haven't i' like i've seen you on a day but i'm willing to bet that your profile is ah pretty big outlier um but anyway i think i actually havet told that so i do think that's probably true yeah it's about to get deleted because
01:07:07
Speaker
right not working for a year but i was going to record um kind of a video showing it before i delete it so yeah yeah um anyway just teasing that for the audience if you want to do that later i think it could be entertaining i think i actually education um okay so but the thing the thing that i kind of curious to get into here and that that feels a little vulnerable um how do you how do you think people figure out or how do you personally how should i personally and how do people as they do this how do you figure out who's in your league
01:07:39
Speaker
like the concept of so okay right people who talk about dating and courtship and all this kind of stuff and very like academic terms will say that like generally speaking people will partner ah from people will partner within their own socioeconomic class partner within their own geographic area because you know being close somebody um and they'll partner um in their own sort of like attractiveness theyre partner with someone who is of similar attractive right right and i think that like that
01:08:10
Speaker
term attractiveness is doing a lot of work and i think maybe somebody listening would be like well no if if someone's attractive i know if they're attracted like i know if i'm attracted to them because i can feel it because i'll be attracted to them but life's so subjective though it's totallyruive right yeah and and i think i think there's this like i think i think getting back to that thing of having so many options i wonder if there's this thing happening where people are kind of like and and because of social media where we all show each other like the the highlight real of our lives right yeah you show each other when we're looking amazing and not when we're looking
01:08:45
Speaker
not so great well unless you've been on my profile any time recently ah lot of reals with no makeup straight from the gym yup again were lier you are attractive as always lay but but like but you know what i'm saying like i'm wondering i'm interested in in your thoughts on this this is not a fully baked idea but like i think there might be something going on here where like people just are kind of not le on what their league is and maybe they shouldn't be maybe this isn't a bad thing
01:09:16
Speaker
but like like i have definitely had people in real life and on the dating app um um you know chat with me or or try to you know swipe right on me or or try to chat me up um where and and i i feel like kind of a snob but it's like i can tell that i'm getting sort of like romantic interest from someone and and i'm just sitting thinking like ah like yeah i just not it's not clicking for me like it's not a person who and um and um don't mean to be a snob but just like i'm not i am not god's gift to women
01:09:47
Speaker
but people who i don't know are just kind of not i would say kind of quote unquote not in my league right am i the asshole here i don't know um i think it's kind of a juicy topic yeah we all have those thoughts i sort i mean i have those all like you should you should see my dms right now and instagram oh and tiktok i have thousand from many mexico um yeah based on this one video that i was like jokingly was like
01:10:18
Speaker
instead of saying hi to me you guys need to send me your resumes i have an inbox of resumes and honestly some of them i'm just like real like literally i had a guy that was like hi i'm a bus driver i'm like forty seven and i'm just like what what okay all right you know what i mean like yes yeah so yeah um okay i i mean i think it's all just it's it's it's all like ego and status at the end of the day like i think
01:10:50
Speaker
i mean i really think um
01:10:55
Speaker
okay here's my hot take so yeah i do think that women on the whole prioritizeed other qualities and men above their looks always like you know are they successful are they ambitious are they confident are they kind are they generous are they loyal like so matter to us more we do still have to be physically attracted to someone men and women like that is a nonstarter there must
01:11:26
Speaker
be physical attraction um but um that's for me i think what i'm upset about with like so much of society advocating for people settling i'm like okay i would be settling because i'm so wildly pick yardly settling for someone i'm not attracted to what is the point of that you know what i mean so anyway that' better off i that's my thought on that um but i think for men it's
01:11:57
Speaker
more based on looks at least initially um like what's considered like someone's i guess i'm coming around to the point of like what's your league like i think women think less of like you know i've seen so many beautiful women that are dating guys that are if we're talking about leagues definitely not in their league lookswise but then they bring so much else to the table that that part doesn't matter you know what i mean so i think the concept of a league is kind of dumb um interesting i think
01:12:29
Speaker
yeah a i think it's maybe more of like on the men's side of like how hot is she or whatever but but it's interesting and helpful to guys like you know shoot your shot because like women do prioritize other rates overlooks when they're looking for like someone to settle down with so even if you think like oh she's out of my league she's gorgeous whatever like you might value everything else that you offer so i would you know advise that and sort of not be so tough
01:13:00
Speaker
selfdeprecating with yourselves but you know an asshole like i don't know there i think yeah i think looks is just like it's so it's so subjective too um you know i've had people like about people that i've you know gone on date with her or whatever be like you're going out with him like are you serious you know what i mean like ever preferences are so different so i think it's all just kind of it it goes back to kind of this childish dating landscape that we are in right now where like things that are so unimportant are
01:13:35
Speaker
prioritize
01:13:37
Speaker
okay i love all that and i agree with it i think do you okay so in terms of like what so okay ah question with the league stuff is like what are we prioritizing right and i think you're right i think men do prioritize ah like physical beauty and frankly i think that's usually a proxy for age i think i do think there's a big trend where like ah woman who is gorgeous and forty seven um is just not going to have the same experience as woman who's gorgeous and and thirty three
01:14:08
Speaker
you know what i mean sure um and i i i'm curious and it sounds like this is not the case for you because you're putting time and effort into like finding these other traits that you value but like do you think it's true that women are doing things like you know filtering for men over six feet tall or looking for men who appear to have you know a particularly high status or lucrative job yeah right um and then in that not all not um not all not all
01:14:37
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah yeah but yesam right and i and you know like maybe maybe this is just another dodged bullet right like like yeah i think there are and i don't know maybe i don't know i don't know if i want to do a better job of like showing my socioeconomic status on my dating app profile you know what i mean i don't know if i want to like yeah i mean i think if you have your job title and company like we're we're we're pretty good so and so i actually don't think there's much else to oh
01:15:10
Speaker
i have well i have but huge problem why haven't we talked about this before i don't know no i have like know what of magic intelligence whatever oh manager art what like tech or something yeah i have manager attack okay i thought you had nothing for a job having nothing for job is an automatic swipe left like women care about you being financially secure so like if any man out there doesn't have anything job y'all are yeah absolutely shooting yoursels in the foot but no yeah it' that's fine and not say you're
01:15:44
Speaker
exact company i were like yeah thats i think people know that text you know you're you're doing pretty well so i don't i don't think you need to to anything more there i think it's more um
Prioritizing Traits in Partners
01:15:58
Speaker
and i'd love to see your profile but like yeah i would want very developed answers you know to like choose your prompts wisely answer them wisely just be thoughtful like put put stuff in your bio thats thought for and indicates who you are and what you're looking for
01:16:16
Speaker
yeah i really so i mean i'll give an example of one of my clients that i'm working with um and by the way it's just to give everyone context i do you know dating and breakup and that all that sort of coaching and empowerment too but know what to call myself i'm a jackwa trades i think i'm currently going to go with empowerment coach but you know very much like helping ive helped a lot of men what they're dating lives um and i have a client i'm sure to put a link in the thing for them yeah please i have a client who's been working with me who like oh my god his life
01:16:50
Speaker
his dating life has gone gangbusters and you know without giving too much information away about him is under six foot um you know i don't know how much money's making but not anything crazy um and he by having such a developed emotional intelligence side i mean has gone on the most wild dates with women that he's like this girl so out of my league like she's beautiful and he's getting fine
01:17:21
Speaker
of matches and dates um just because we've kind of developed that side of like understanding women understanding women understanding how to be appealing to them understanding how to make them feel seen and safe honestly women are more looking for that like and emotionally intelligent woman is looking for and emotionally intelligent man um and prioritizing a lot less the superficial stuff like that yeah so
01:17:52
Speaker
that's kind of my my like genuine real life example is like this client that like three months ago i was dating life with shit and now he's like calling me like i don't know which girl to pick oh ah and love it well okay i i need to sign up for for your your life coaching dating yeah supports the system um okay well lainey we're super overtime as always the time always goes so fast when i'm chatting with you thank you so much for making time is there anything else that you wanted to throw out there or anything else that's like on the top of your mind that's like
01:18:26
Speaker
juicy for this convo i think we have a lot to pick back up on in further convos but yeah um you know with love to work with anyone that's interested and i you know hang in there i i think i think things have to change because no one wants to be as single and as divided as we are right now so i really think that there's got to be a change and i think ah kind of men that are listening to a podcast like this are the ones that are going to lead the charge and they're the ones that are going to end up with
01:19:01
Speaker
you know the the best quality
Conclusion and Future Outlook
01:19:02
Speaker
women so i hope so i do also think that younger people are kind of abandoning the dating apps which kind of gives me hope yeah i think so too all that goes yeah um okay let's let's let's wrap it up there um um so i'll put this up with this in the in the episode notes but go to i hope this is right lainey tucker l a and e y t u c k r dot co yes um and she's lainey y tucker on both tiktok and instagram yeah that's right painting with two eyes all right awesome lainey thank you so much for recording this with me i have
01:19:35
Speaker
i don't know i love this stuff i love sitting on talking about it i love that the perspective gives me on on things that i can do differently or things that i can try to prioritize
01:19:48
Speaker
know it just find it fascinating and fun so thank you i super appreciate your time and your wisdom i think you thank
01:19:58
Speaker
i think i think we're doing the lord's work here trying to navigate modern dating so always a pleasure thanks for having me back thank you thank you um okay yeah so that's what we've got for this episode for listeners thank you as always for for tuning in um if you want to reach out if you have ideas if you want to come on with me and lay and and tell us that we're both wrong and why um you can find ah the podcast on instagram wish you all the best pod and you can also email ah
01:20:28
Speaker
ah email me you thank you for tuning in i hope you enjoyed it as much as i