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Innovating Masculinity: A Vision for A Healthier Male Identity (feat. Davide Pace)
158 Plays7 months ago
Welcome to another profound episode of The Integrated Man Project. I’m your host, Travis Goodman, and today we're diving deep with a very special guest, Davide Pace. Davide is not just a senior psychology student with a keen focus on men's mental health; he's a visionary dedicated to shaping a new narrative around healthy masculinities.
In this episode, we explore Davide's transformative journey from grappling with negative thoughts and destructive behaviors to leveraging small, positive changes that have made a monumental difference in his life. Together, we tackle the internal strife many men face, battling shame, fear, worry, and self-doubt, and discuss the liberating power of self-awareness and the courage to change.
Davide brings his unique perspective on the dangers and benefits of risk-taking, sharing personal anecdotes and insights. His project for a local high school seeks to redefine masculine norms, while his "Innovating Masculinity" podcast is a testament to his commitment to this cause.
Our conversation goes beyond the individual struggle and looks at the broader context of masculinity today, questioning the toxic tropes and rigid ideologies of figures like Andrew Tate. We argue for integration, curiosity, and collaboration as essential tools for personal and collective growth.
As we conclude, you'll be inspired by Davide's honesty about setbacks, his passion for progress, and the small, yet mighty, steps he’s taking toward a kinder, more resilient, and service-oriented life. This is more than just a dialogue; it's a call to action for all of us to assess our own behaviors, learn from our mistakes, and embrace the non-linear journey of self-improvement.
So, tune in, engross yourself in this vital conversation, and maybe find that spark to ignite your own path to becoming a more integrated man. Let's get started.
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Transcript
Introduction to Men's Group Coaching
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project podcast. Before we get to the show, just a quick announcement about some upcoming new offerings I'll be having. Under the Integrated Man Project wing, I'm gonna be launching my first men's group coaching program. Those, if you're new to the show, I practice as a licensed marriage and family therapist. I've been practicing for about 10 years.
00:00:22
Speaker
in California and I'm going to be stepping into the coaching world and having my first men's group coaching program here launching. If you are interested in getting involved with that, go ahead and email me at integrated man project at gmail.com. Again, integrated man project at gmail.com for more information.
00:00:41
Speaker
I could send you a quick questionnaire asking a few more clarifying questions. We could set up a quick voice and or video chat to clarify any questions you might have. And this initial offering will be for men to work through a six-week program designed at reducing stress more effectively.
00:01:01
Speaker
teaching some practical skills and tools to effectively navigate stress. So again, if you're interested, email me at integratedmanproject at gmail.com.
Meet Davide: Advocate for Healthy Masculinity
00:01:11
Speaker
And without further ado, let's jump into the show.
00:01:18
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the podcast. I'm excited to have on this guest Davide. And we have met recently, we've been having conversations over on LinkedIn is how we met. And I'm actually super stoked to have him on this, this episode of this podcast. He's got a huge heart and passion for men, but I'm not gonna tell you about that. I'm gonna have him tell you about it. So before we jump into that though, how are you doing today, Davide? I'm doing well, Travis. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, man, I'm literally so stoked that you're here and want to jump in and have this conversation. And I'm actually excited that you reached out to me on LinkedIn a few months back and just kind of initiated connection. Yeah, it's one of those things that the more I do this, the more men and women that I'm meeting that really care for men that want to
00:02:05
Speaker
bring awareness around men's kind of holistic health that want to create projects and avenues and create communities and use their expertise and their life to kind of make it better. So you reaching out, I'm very thankful that you did and that we get to have this conversation that we've been talking offline. So can you tell us a bit about who you are, kind of what you're doing right now and kind of your life currently?
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Before I say that, I do want to say a thank you to Kimi, our mutual friend. She is the one who kind of likes you and let me know that you are someone that I should talk to in the space. I just want to shout out. Yeah, that's right. Hi, Kimi.
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah. Well, we'll put you, we'll drop your stuff in the comments of the section. Yes. Kimmy's an amazing woman and she, yeah, she's phenomenal. She's yeah, she's got a huge heart for men and fathers. And so I, I, I totally blanked on that. So thank you for, for dropping her name. So hi, Kimmy, if you're listening. Yeah, exactly. No, Kimmy, Kimmy is great. She's a great educator. She's also been helping me a lot with a lot of the work that I'm, that I have been doing right now. I am a, I am a senior at Wash U it's in St. Louis in the Midwest and.
00:03:13
Speaker
I'm studying psychology and my passion I have found recently is in men's mental health, specifically with young men right now. The project that I'm working on is creating a program for a local high school, actually my old high school that I went to. So a lot of memories coming up, going back to that school, speaking to some of the teachers about what do the young men there need. And what we've decided is that we really need to create
Davide's Program: A Balanced View of Masculinity
00:03:42
Speaker
a healthy masculinity program for these young men because a lot of the narrative, as you know, that young men are hearing is that masculinity is just toxic. And on the other side of the equation, they're hearing that they need to go back to traditional values.
00:03:58
Speaker
Andrew Tate kind of vibes, that kind of thing. And people are waking up to the fact that both of those are not very good options. And we need to find that there is a middle ground and there's a middle ground and they get to decide what that middle ground is and they get to decide their version of masculinity. So that is the big project that I'm working on right now. I also have a podcast that talks about men's issues called Innovating Masculinity, but
00:04:24
Speaker
The big project that I'm working on right now is that program doing research. Really, the research has been, interestingly enough, the most exciting part of it, which you wouldn't really expect. But I've just loved getting into all the papers and really finding out what are the different components of masculinity that we can help young men with. And I'm very excited to start implementing some of those and getting feedback on this program.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's so cool. It's more than cool, but that's the word that came to my mind. Cool. I'm from Southern California, so I use cool and doodle a lot. If you're listening to this podcast, I haven't figured it out. I mean, I'm assuming people know exactly where I'm from. You know, it's like you don't think that you have a dialect or whatever, but then people are like, oh, you're from California.
00:05:08
Speaker
Um, so cool. And I think hearing your, you know, a quick glimpse of your story is that it's very encouraging to know that, you know, guys your age, cause I think what, 20 or 20, I'm guessing.
00:05:21
Speaker
21, I'll be 22 in days. I'll be 22 in two days though. Oh, happy, happy pre-birthday. So 21, but at 21, really having, like, this is resonating, speaking to you so much that you want to, you're saying, hey, we need to, we need to find this middle ground and really do something different. And that's so encouraging to hear because I'm, I'm 39. So
00:05:43
Speaker
you know, a little bit older, but not too much older, but still a generation removed. And I have a similar passion, too. We need to do something, but it's so encouraging to hear that 21-year-old, almost 22, is thinking through this process and not only thinking through this process, saying, I'm going to do something about it because you're also hearing a narrative
00:06:03
Speaker
Which is different than the narrative I heard similar, but I didn't have Andrew Tate when I was your age, right? I didn't have that. We had different people speaking. But, you know, hearing too that you're seeing this kind of dichotomy, this kind of black or white, pendulum swing, it's either overly traditional values like a Tate or it's just all toxic and bad and evil and wrong. And so it's kind of like these two extremes.
00:06:28
Speaker
And I really do agree that it is somewhere in between. It's in the gray. It's in the middle. It's somewhere in this space, not on these kind of edges, so to speak. And so a question that kind of came up for me as you were talking is that you're loving
Understanding Risk-Taking in Young Men
00:06:44
Speaker
doing the research. And I think that's so important that we do research, that we actually look at data as part of our process of understanding what it means to have maybe a healthy masculinity or masculinities.
00:06:56
Speaker
or what it means to be a man that I think it's important to take our experience, but also look at the data, what's actually being, what's it showing out there and kind of taking both accounts into play. And so from the research you've been doing, because you've been diving super deep and kind of
00:07:15
Speaker
simmering in it, I think, for a while. What are maybe what are some of the most interesting things you've discovered, maybe the top two or three issues or I don't know, insights or epiphanies as you've been doing the research? What are some of those?
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I was actually doing a little bit of writing for an episode that I'm creating on my podcast that I really got the idea for while doing the research. And specifically, this episode deals with risk taking. So we know young men across
00:07:45
Speaker
pretty much across all cultures and i think across all age levels but i know especially young men they tend to be higher risk takers than young women obviously you know as we always want to say we're talking about gender differences in psychology these are overlapping distributions it doesn't mean that all men are high risk takers so just wanna add that caveat in there.
00:08:07
Speaker
But generally, they are higher risk takers, and it leads to things like more car accidents, more drunk driving incidents, more accidental deaths. So men are actually dying at higher rates because they're taking seemingly out of control risks. But in the research, I found that in a meta analysis, I think it was from 2019, that young men that
00:08:30
Speaker
Take more risks have more positive outcomes and more negative outcomes when it comes to their health so with that that really stuck out to me because I've kind of lived both sides of that coin like I've I've taken the really stupid risks that have led me to kind of like some of these rock bottom moments where my health and my life was crumbling around me and
00:08:54
Speaker
But I've also found myself, especially recently, taking a lot better risks that have led to crazy positive outcomes like us having this podcast episode, me creating this program. It's inspiring to me that this character trait can lead to very, very positive outcomes or negative ones, because all that means is that we need to educate men better on taking good risks. Like this is obviously a place where we can
00:09:22
Speaker
we can have some influence and if we can figure out how to encourage men to take the right risk to improve their lives then we can have a really really positive effect like that that's super negative up to a much more positive just life outcome.
00:09:38
Speaker
That's an interesting statistic that I think what I heard in that is, you know, what is the risk we're actually taking? Because it's, you know, being a risk taker is lead can lead to higher outcomes, but also, like you said, more also more negative. It's like, it's more extreme on both ends. But so maybe it's more about the type of risk we're taking. And is it calculated? Is it intentional? Is it well thought out of the risk, right? Or is it just
00:09:59
Speaker
merely impulsive i wanna you know i have a you know i have a mustang and i wanna you know i'm sixteen and i wanna drive a hundred twenty with my friends in the back right because that's obviously risky high reward but also high risk cuz i can get a car accident so maybe it's like you said maybe it's about the type of risk you know i thinking through it rather than just a merely impulse of just doing something without what be not without being well thought out.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, that is also the conclusion that I came to. Driving in that Mustang, the thrill you're going to get from that obviously is the positive outcome, but the negative outcome is outsized compared to the positive. I give the example of me creating
00:10:37
Speaker
my podcast, like the risks, the positive potential for that is like I could theoretically blow up and become a famous podcast. It doesn't mean it's gonna happen. But the risk curve there is just way more in my favor. Because like, if I put it out there and it doesn't work, like the negative is almost zero. Like who cares if I make a podcast that doesn't succeed, like it doesn't matter at all. But if I make a podcast that people love, I end up
00:11:04
Speaker
getting an audience affecting a lot of men. It's like you just have to choose the right risks. I think that a lot of young men either aren't thinking about that or nobody's really talked to them about that in a way that appeals to them. How are you seeing that play out with
00:11:21
Speaker
other guys your age in college? Like, what do you what do you noticing when you see the research? Are you seeing it kind of mirrored? Is it skewed a bit? Is it like, what do you you know, obviously, this is your anecdotal evidence of what you're noticing at your university, you know, in your community. So I mean, obviously, it's not going to be for you can't take that and slap it on everything else. But I think it's important information that you're seeing in your friend groups and in your classes and who you're interacting with. Are you seeing kind of some similarities there or or not so much?
00:11:49
Speaker
No, I would say definitely. I would say definitely because in my first few years of college, I would say I was on the bad side of the risk taking.
00:11:57
Speaker
Equation I was taking risks that were leading to more negative outcomes. That's also sort of the Environment that I was in and that's the people that I was around and I noticed that you know I was not as happy and the people that were around me were not as happy and not quite as fulfilled They didn't seem to have a purpose as much as the people that I'm around now which is you know, those people are are going to necessarily be worse off like I'm sure those people are are going to figure it out or
00:12:25
Speaker
the same way that I have. Maybe they probably have already. But when I'm around people that they want to take, one of my friends right now, he's making music. He never was like a singer growing up, but he just decided to go all in on this music-making thing. He's doing vocal lessons, doing all this stuff, producing songs. That's a big risk. He's so fulfilled by the pursuit of that. Whereas when I was around the people that were just partying and getting drunk,
00:12:54
Speaker
They weren't really fulfilled by the drinking. They were just, I can't wait till the weekend so I can have another drink kind of thing. So that's how it's been playing out in my friend groups. And once again, I'm not saying don't drink in college. I still have a few drinks every now and then. Obviously, have your fun. Make it a little bit more calculated. Choose the right time to really go for it.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I think there's a story there for you, kind of a pre and post like moment of decision. Can you tell us a bit about kind of a little snapshot and a window of David and kind of pre this decision now kind of this journey that you had kind of been having been embarking on or embarked on having kind of traveling on for maybe the past couple of years. It sounds like can you kind of tell us a little about kind of the moment of change or what shifted for you of like, Hmm, maybe I got to be more calculated in my decisions a bit more. And because obviously it sounds like there's a story there. Yes.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, there absolutely is. I would say before my bottoming out, my rock bottom moment, I was probably drinking heavily three to four nights a week, maybe five or six on the bad weeks. I was really tanking in school. My grades were going down and there was a period where I actually, I had a lot of attitudes towards
00:14:12
Speaker
the world towards myself that were just destructive. They were tearing me down and especially they were tearing down the people around me. I was hurting people. I was harming my friends and people that I came into contact with because I was really just a loose cannon. Eventually, that culminated in a rock bottom moment for me where everything changed. I had a moment where I was sitting in my dorm and
00:14:40
Speaker
I thought to myself, I was like, I could either continue to become the person that I'm becoming, or I could make a radical change. And I took a few weeks off school. I think it was actually close to a month. I dropped out of several classes because I was pretty much failing them. And I really dedicated
00:14:58
Speaker
Myself after that moment in my dorm room to changing things around because I had just made so many mistakes that had so many people and Something needed to change and I got into a lot of like the you know, the self-improvement stuff on on YouTube Andrew Huberman If you know who he is, he's kind of he's kind of like my hero He's the one who introduced me to this to this whole self-improvement game like his videos on on anxiety and depression and
00:15:24
Speaker
really helped me make some actionable changes. And from there, I've just started slowly changing my systems, slowly changing the way that I think about other people and trying to be a little bit more kind, trying to be a little bit more graceful, give myself grace, trying to be a little bit more resilient and trying to just choose things
00:15:48
Speaker
that are gonna give me choose things that are gonna be of service to others and myself as opposed to just trying to take take take which attitude that i had before.
00:15:58
Speaker
And what's kept you going on this journey so far? Because we could have that rock bottom moment, and maybe we could have multiple bottom moments, depending on the person. And sometimes we might make, and I've seen this in my clinical practice, sometimes people make change for a very short time. In crisis, it's like, I need to change, and so they do, and then often what can happen is they revert back to old behaviors, old ways of thinking or doing.
00:16:24
Speaker
And so I'm wondering for you, what has kept you pushing past that point of reverting? What
Davide's Journey of Self-Improvement
00:16:29
Speaker
kept you fighting, taking a step? What has that been for you? Well, I would say I definitely had setbacks. So it has not been a smooth journey.
00:16:41
Speaker
definitely have taken steps backward every now and then. But I think the thing really that's kept me moving forward is that I just love this. I love the way that I feel and I love the way that I make other people feel
00:16:56
Speaker
now as opposed to before. I wish I could say it was like, I definitely developed more resilience. But it's not just because I got this David Goggins mentality. It really is because it just feels good. I just like this way of living a lot, so much more fulfilled. I just feel like I can give so much more love to my family and my friends and really spread that
00:17:26
Speaker
energy around as opposed to just being like, I don't know, like a vortex for like anger and negativity and all that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And what you said is so key is that change is going to come with setback. It's going to come with falling still. It's like when you learn to ride a bike, you fall a lot. And so it's the getting back up though, like, okay, I fell or I crashed again and I'm going to get back up. And you know, it's that moment of reassessment because it isn't just a nice clean linear line of like, hey, I'm just moving forward. It doesn't,
00:17:55
Speaker
That was even in my story like it's kind of like you have this awareness you do you do well and then you kind of get stuck in some old ways of thinking or behaving and then you catch it though right you catch it faster and then and that's the most important thing is the catching I think is because what we can do is I think where people
00:18:10
Speaker
get can't get stuck is where they fall off their bike but then they stay and they're like well that didn't work or I'm you know I was on a failure anyway I'm gonna fall anyway so they kind of beat themselves up because they made a mistake because they think they should be perfect like well it didn't work out for me it wasn't you know see I
00:18:29
Speaker
I couldn't last or I couldn't keep pushing and I'm not strong enough to keep moving and so they can kind of psych themselves out rather than, hey, okay, you did fall or have a setback or maybe engage in some old behavior that wasn't so productive or effective. And what happens is that critical voice will come in and that shame will come in and they'll kind of get crushed by it. Rather than, you're right, I did.
00:18:52
Speaker
acknowledging it and saying, okay, here's what I did. Here's why I went awry and here's how I can learn from it and recover faster, you know, versus just staying stuck. Because I think that's why I see a lot of people get stuck there is that like they expect to not have those setbacks. They expect to, hey, I'm on this journey of health, healing, whatever you want to call it. And it should just be, you know, rainbows, sunshine and unicorns.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You think that because like, we're not aware of our of our unconscious thoughts and behaviors. So as soon as we make conscious decision that we want to change, we're like, okay, like all of the thinking part of me is saying I want to change and I want to, you know, do everything differently. The rest of you, the rest of your unconscious thoughts and behaviors, like they're on a totally different, they're on a totally different system.
00:19:45
Speaker
And what you said about perfectionism is very true that I've had to overcome that. And I think one of my favorite quotes about perfectionism is that perfectionism is an excuse for people to stay lazy. If you're a perfectionist, then if you don't think you can do it perfectly, then you don't do it at all. And that's just one of those mindsets I've had to throw right out the window because this whole thing is an experiment. There's going to be failures. If you can't do it perfectly,
00:20:15
Speaker
You're human. That doesn't mean you can't do it at all. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great quote. And I've also seen it in my practice that perfectionism is a defense mechanism. It's a fear, right? In order for me to survive, it must be perfect because it helps me avoid pain or hurt or rejection.
00:20:35
Speaker
Whatever. And so, you know, I think one perspective is lazy. And I think the other perspective that I've seen is it's about survival. It's an ineffective response because inevitably no one's perfect, but it's that lie. It's like, well, I have to, I have to be perfect in order to be accepted, to be lovable, to be, have value, to have worth, to be productive. And that can be kind of, that's the lie of it is it's a trap, right? It keeps you stuck and it can lead to laziness or avoidance because if I'm not perfect, then I won't do it.
00:21:02
Speaker
but it really deep down is kind of like this fear and perfectionism I think is a way of trying to control from further harm.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think you I think you hit it on the head right there. Like you need to like, there's something secure about everything being perfect. And we're still obsessed with, you know, security and comfort. And I still fall back into that pattern of like, sometimes I'm like, if I don't have my list for the day, where I'm like, this is what I'm gonna do. I sometimes don't, don't want to get out of bed. But it's like, just get up and try and try and do something. Even if it's if it's very insignificant, like just get up and try and do something.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that's good. And sometimes that's, that is the victory is just do something. Right. Just start. Right. And in that, maybe you've noticed the starting process some days is that that's, that's all you can do. It's like, okay, I did something. And maybe other days that starting process really might snowball into a positive movement. Yeah, exactly. I mean, honestly, this like, even this morning, like I woke up and, uh, I got a little bit of light in my eyes, got a little bit of sunlight, and then.
00:22:04
Speaker
I was like, I'm not feeling it. I went back to sleep for a little bit. And then I got, but I did get back up out of bed and I didn't let the shame kind of like hold me there for too long and you know, step forward, step back, step forward again.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome, man. And that's, I think, more a realistic view of what it often looks like for a lot of people. There are days that you wake up ready to go and like, you know, let's get at it, you know, and feeling confident, good. But I think more often than not, it's that initial internal fight of, you know, what's creeping in right now in this moment? Is it shame? Is it my belief system?
00:22:40
Speaker
Is it fear? Is it worry? Is it perfectionism? And how quickly it's not like a, you know, it's not like it's a big leap sometimes to kind of stay stuck. It's very, you know, it's like a baby step to either go towards staying stuck and buying into that kind of negative cycle or even a baby step of moving toward growth and movement.
00:23:00
Speaker
It's subtle sometimes it's very subtle it's like it's all here and i think of one of my favorite quotes from victor frankel from the book man search for meaning and i believe that's where he said it but he said you know in between you know stimulus in response to liza space in that space lies our freedom our capacity to choose our response to any given set of circumstances.
00:23:21
Speaker
So it's stimulus response right there and that's such a small quick space because when a stimulus happens, we can have an automatic response and it's almost like there is no gap. It's like very tiny. But I think with practice, we become more aware of that space of like, okay, this is happening and I'm aware now and I could have the agency and capacity to choose my middle path here rather than maybe falling on these extremes, whatever that might look like for me. I love that quote. I've never – I know I've heard of that book before, but I've never heard that quote. That one's fantastic.
00:23:50
Speaker
Because yeah, space is something I've been trying to find a lot more recently. So I really like that quote. And I'm wondering what this question is. I'm thinking through all the work you're doing and we'll kind of sit with this and then kind of look at kind of closing out the show. But with all your own personal story, along with your research on kind of healthy masculinities and the middle path, kind of creating this program for your old high school, which I think is stellar, like, hey, I see a need here. I want to fill it.
00:24:19
Speaker
I'm wondering when you think of integration and being integrated with all the work you're doing, how, what do you hear and how does that look with the work that you are doing in this realm?
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah. So when I hear the word integration, my mind really jumps to like combining something, bringing something into the fold, like taking something that's currently outside of the system and bringing it into the greater picture and really making it a part of, you know, your, your, your message or your, or your vision. So when I think about the program,
00:24:54
Speaker
I'm thinking about how to integrate that program into the school system that those kids currently are in. I'm not coming in there trying to just give them some random program on healthy masculinity that isn't going to be combined with the rest of their curriculum and the rest of the stuff that they're learning about. It really needs to be integrated into that school's
00:25:19
Speaker
Message and vision so when you told me about the new name for the podcast I just thought like an integrated man is a man who brings things into himself that he knows that he needs and someone that understands that you know there are constantly things that I need to be adding to my being in order to make me you know more fulfilled or be a better husband or a better brother a better son and
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's what integration really, really means to me from when you first said it and then also when I've just thought about it in my own life. Yeah, and I wonder when you think about that and kind of the narratives of the day, how does integration kind of what you just said, how does it?
Integrating Masculinity Debates
00:26:04
Speaker
What does that offer differently than like the Andrew Tates of the world or, hey, everything's toxic, you know, being a masculine itself is toxic. So what does that look like and what do you hear as a kind of an offering, so to speak, in opposition to these other narratives?
00:26:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great point. I didn't even think about it that way, but the toxic masculinity or the Andrew Tate camps, they're not big on integrating new ideas. They're very set in their ways. They're either traditional or they're anti-traditional. Everything's bad.
00:26:42
Speaker
So in that sense like the middle way is really to integrate some of the good things from both of those sides because like toxic masculinity, they obviously have a point. We can look at the numbers on interpersonal violence and domestic abuse and all these different things. There's obviously something wrong with the way conducting themselves.
00:27:04
Speaker
At the same time, you look at Andrew Tate and he has empowered a lot of men to not be lonely and depressed. And obviously, he's done that in ways that I don't agree with, but we still have to take a look at what has been so appealing and try and figure out how we can craft a message that's appealing in the same way but has different underlying values. So I think that's what we're all about, is integrating in the good
00:27:32
Speaker
from wherever we can find it, regardless of who we can really find it from.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I like your perspective because actually I didn't think of it in that way. Like the way you framed it in my head and processed it, thinking through what it means to be an integrated man. But I love it. It really is constantly learning and open to new ideas. And how do I integrate this into my overall well-being and even your program? It's like, I'm not just trying to come in and say, here, do this. But it's really seeking to understand the context to which you find yourself in. And in this case, the high school.
00:28:06
Speaker
And understanding their story, their strengths, their areas, and saying, how do I bring something in that isn't just trying to shove it and make it fit, but work toward an understanding so I can collaborate and bring this idea as a way of enhancing what they are doing. And so I love that perspective. It's like it does take curiosity to understanding what you're doing and where you are. And it's going to obviously vary whether it's a high school or in your own life or with your family or with your work.
00:28:34
Speaker
that it takes a level of observation and research so to speak to to garner information to say how do I bring this in and what do I need to bring in which is also I think speaks if you think of the toxic or the Andrew Tate that
00:28:50
Speaker
That also I think would be anti those viewpoints of looking at saying, what do I need to, you know, what do I need to bring into my life? Because I think to say that would to admit weakness and to say, well, that's not manly to say you need something outside of yourself, right? That's what I heard too when you said that is like, I think that would very much in those camps would say, no, you don't need that because to do that is to show weakness and vulnerability and all those things.
00:29:14
Speaker
And so I love your perspective. I think that's so key and so important that we need to understand the context, the business, the person, the, you know, the relationship, whatever it is, to then integrate well. And I think health to do it well. You know, I think of too, when people have surgery and they get like a transplant, right? They really got to make sure it matches, right? The blood type and everything. Because if you just want to shove in a kidney, that's not the right blood type. The body's going to reject it, right?
00:29:41
Speaker
But they need a kidney or they need – you could shove it in there and it's going to – it'll probably – they could sew it up but there's going to be complications, right? So it's like we need to make sure – that's why they're so key on is the blood type the same and is it a match because if it's not, then you're wasting your time and causing more damage. And so we really got to do our research to understand what does this person or this thing need.
00:30:04
Speaker
I'm stoked to to hear the finalized product when that's done because I know we've talked offline about that and I'm like that I think it's really cool you're doing it and I can't wait to hear kind of what it looks like and the program and everything else but as we start to wrap up one what music is currently inspiring you right now music mm-hmm
00:30:25
Speaker
or what are you spinning right now or what's kind of what's been playing on your playlist kind of on repeat for the past week or so? Sure, I would say there's, I kind of, I get really one track minded with music. So right now I'm big in my country phase. It's kind of my deal right now, Luke Combs, any of the new country people, I just love them. But I've also been listening a little bit to a little bit of classical music and that's, I mean,
00:30:54
Speaker
I just put on like this classical playlist and there was one that was just oh man it was like the the intro was just hitting me so a little bit of classical a little bit of country a little bit of kind of like that kind of weird like healing music stuff i'll just throw that on when i'm doing like weird weird healing music yeah it's like it's like uh oh what is it it's it's like
00:31:15
Speaker
I'm not gonna try, I'm not gonna try and recreate it right now, but like there's no vocals on it. It's just kind of like that like ambient. Yeah, ambient or something like, something that just kind of is plain and it's supposed to like raise your vibration state order. I don't know if it actually does that, but it sounds good though. It sounds good when I'm meditating.
00:31:34
Speaker
I love it. I'll have to, I'll have to Google a weird healing music and see what pops up. Unless there's a, unless there's a playlist of artists you found that's good and you can obviously feel free to share, but I'm just thinking what might pop up in my Google search. If I do that, you better be careful with that. Yeah. I probably should be careful. Like put, you know, I don't know some blockers on or something. And in the last question is where, you know, with the work you're doing, where can, where can we find you and all that you're doing?
00:32:02
Speaker
Sure, so the podcast is called Innovating Masculinity. You can find that
00:32:07
Speaker
on all platforms, Spotify, Apple Music. I am currently only on LinkedIn, that's Davide, spelled like David E. J. Pache, spelled P-A-C-E. I'm making the jump to Instagram here in the next week or so, so that will be coming as well. Besides that, I'm not really on any other socials. I kind of try to keep it minimalist, so that's where you can find me and hopefully,
00:32:34
Speaker
hopefully the program will be coming to a school near you somewhere in this next like five years as we look to scale it, so yeah. Well, I would love to be able to look back on this episode, you know, five years from now and say, hey, this is, Davide had this vision and he's been implementing it. Now look, it's a program that is really helping boys and men and teens to kind of have a healthier masculinities, you know? So I think that that'd be cool. I would love to be able to look back on this and say, hey, look at that, look.
00:33:02
Speaker
Look at Davide back then and five years later. That'd be really cool. And everyone listening, his links will be all directly down here, clickable to the episode, to his podcast, to his LinkedIn account. Everything's gonna clickable below. Davide, thank you so much for your time and I'm excited. Actually, we should have a follow up in a few episodes, maybe in a month or two from now and check in with how the process is going and all the new research you're finding as well as what you are integrating. So, hey man, blessings to you today and we'll talk soon.
00:33:32
Speaker
Appreciate it, Travis. Have a good one.