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Don't Sweat the Small Stuff: The Importance of Patience and Repetition in Parenting (feat. Nate Feathers)
186 Plays8 months ago
Welcome back to The Integrated Man Project. I'm your host, Travis Goodman, and today we have a profound episode lined up for you titled "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff." Joining us is the insightful Nate Feathers, a father of five, soon to be six, who is here to offer a deep dive into the nuanced world of fatherhood. Nate opens up about the complex challenges of parenting—from managing our kids' exposure to inappropriate content to the profound influence of the need for fatherly approval on our parenting styles.
In this episode, we'll navigate the often turbulent waters of addressing sensitive topics with our children and the importance of patience, humility, and understanding when it comes to teaching and guiding the next generation. Nate shares a personal and touching story about his son's encounter with inappropriate material and how he responded with an open and honest conversation—a teachable moment for all dads listening in.
We'll also look at how our reactions to the small, everyday frustrations can cumulatively impact our composure as parents. Nate reflects on his own journey, admitting past mistakes, and the powerful role of repetition, support from his wife, and self-improvement in crafting a better approach to fatherhood.
Furthermore, we’ll explore the dynamics of male mentorship in parenting, the pressures of societal and familial narratives, and the pivotal moments that urge us to seek guidance and challenge our beliefs.
Ready to have your perspectives challenged? Stay tuned as we discuss the significant turning points in Nate’s life, the impact of social media, and how letting go of ego can lead to meaningful change. Remember, when it comes to parenting, it's crucial not to sweat the small stuff. Let's get started.
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Transcript
Rebranding Journey and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
In the midst of all the transition and changes, I just wanted to let you know a little bit of a mistake I've made, well not really a mistake, but because of the rebranding, the beginning of this audio recording, I do say welcome to the Therapy for Dads podcast, which is no longer correct, but it's there, so I'm just gonna let you know this is the Integrated Man Project, now no longer Therapy for Dads,
00:00:27
Speaker
It's one of those things that when you're in the midst of a rebrand and process change that there's sometimes a little bit of a residual left over, which is totally okay. But I wanted to let you know when you hear the beginning of this audio recording to don't be alarmed. It's still going to be the integrated man project. Anyway, just a quick disclaimer. Enjoy the show.
Meet Nate: Fatherhood and Online Presence
00:01:01
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the therapy for dad's podcast. I'm excited to have my friend Nate on again second time. Um, he's been on previously on the show and episode that's episode 59. And before I jump into the topic, Nate, can you just do a quick introduction of who you are, what you do and.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I'm Nate Feathers. I'm a father of five and happy to announce I'm going to be a father of six. We just went to the midwives. They have a practice we go to, and then as we get closer, further along towards the due date, it starts coming to us. But we went to our practice today. I got to hear the heartbeat, good, strong, 164 beats a minute. I was honestly thinking twins.
00:01:43
Speaker
Sounds like it's only one heartbeat. So we're okay. I'm okay with that. I don't have to buy a new car or anything like that to fit us all. So soon to be father of six due in March or end of eight, end of February, early March. I am the, I am I'm on Instagram, the handle at Dazz don't babysit. Just giving sharing my whole understanding of how fatherhood, how, how fatherhood probably should work better considering I've gone from.
Learning from Parenting Mistakes
00:02:10
Speaker
I have a 19 year old all the way down to going to have another one here coming up in 2024. And things I wish I had known as a younger father, I just wanted to hear to the younger father so that they don't make the mistakes I made and they can connect with their kids better so that when they send them off into the world, they still feel that great connection and they don't have the regrets I've had for at least my oldest. And obviously if you're watching the video, you're going to see one of the younger, it's just me and her today. So she's probably bounced around behind me, but that's just part of it.
00:02:39
Speaker
No, and I love it. I love that this is real life. This is part of what we do as dads and moms, right? It's like, hey, they're part of our life. They come in and they're there. And so I think it's just real life. And I love that she's bouncing around. Well, I've got to that point where I'm like, take them with you, right? Take them with you to work. Like, if we can take them with us everywhere, that's what I want to do. I agree. And the truth is, this is kind of some of the stuff that I do.
00:03:03
Speaker
Well, if you're getting me, you're probably gonna get one of my kids at least coming in. Yeah. No, and I agree. I think that's such a model that I think in our current modern day and age has become more difficult given kind of what we do. But you're right.
Main Topic: Don't Sweat the Small Stuff
00:03:15
Speaker
I think most of life was done that way, you know, pre 100 years ago, you know, past 100 years, like before that.
00:03:20
Speaker
Even probably less than that actually, you know, I guess Industrial Revolution like before that we were kind of doing the kids kind of did what we did there along for the ride and and and did it and in some ways we did better stuff then because of that and other ways I think not so good stuff but yeah, so I think we're always have to learn and assess kind of what we're doing in our current context in our society of what we're doing well and what we need to improve him and
00:03:42
Speaker
Kind of speaking to what you said, and by the way, congratulations on the next child. I think it's amazing. I remember when you told me I was super stoked and so that's, I'm so excited for you guys and to go back into the cave for round six and
00:03:58
Speaker
But the good news is I think it's going to tie into our topic today. And I think one reason why I have you on today is one, you know, I like you. I think you're a cool dude and we vibe well. So that's the first reason, first of all. But second is that you do have experience. And from that experience, it wasn't meaningless experience. It's been looking at it and saying, how can I continue
Parenting Mishap: Addressing Inappropriate Content
00:04:18
Speaker
to grow? And in a way you get to do it again, again, again, again, again, again.
00:04:22
Speaker
six time and really even take even all the stuff you've been how you've grown up to this point and say wow I get to give more of this and not that you don't you can't give it to your 19 year old because of course you can right it's just different and so you know the topic for today is is you know don't sweat the small stuff and kind of what that's about for you and what that means for you and and I think speaking from kind of where you started years ago
00:04:48
Speaker
and kind of where you were to where you are today and what that means to you. So what is that? Don't sweat the small stuff. What does that mean to you? And why is that such an important thing? Well, it's one of those things where, and I'll tell you kind of a story about a big time. And so you can kind of understand the concept that comes from is I had spent my oldest was nine. You really have to pay attention. So this is kind of like a public service announcement at the same time.
Evolving Parenting Styles
00:05:12
Speaker
I forget what he got, but he got some kind of tablet thing and, and he got intrigued and we had not,
00:05:18
Speaker
been paying attention to like whole set up like safeties and safeguards and so somewhere along the line him and his friends had been talking about something and he started getting intrigued in what like basically in porn and
00:05:34
Speaker
And I think about that and I go, okay, my first experience with porn was I was 11 years old, which in my opinion is way too young, but kids are exposed to it even younger now because there aren't safeguards. I was seven. Public service announcement, safeguard your children by being careful with that, know what they're getting into, what they're getting on, what they have access to, all of those things.
00:05:57
Speaker
That's a huge important deal. Um, I remember when that happened, I, I realized this is, it's a big deal. And my wife at the time, my ex-wife now, she freaked out. She freaked out. Like she did not know what to do. She was crying. She's like, my baby is completely going to be, she's like, he's like, he's totally, you know, spoiled or whatever in the sense of like, he's ruined. And I just remember being like, I remember.
00:06:23
Speaker
at 11 years old wanting to see it, having that weird feeling of like, this is not good, it's not right, but I want to see more. Like I remember all of those things. And so I looked at him and I'm like, I looked at her and I said, you need to leave him alone and let me have this conversation. And then I just said to, I just sat down with him and I was like, look man, this is normal stuff. This is not,
00:06:45
Speaker
You're not abnormal. You're not bad for wanting to see this. And then I just talked to him about like, this is just not good for you because this is not, one, you're not ready for it. And two, this is not the way you need to see this. Like sex is awesome and beautiful and amazing. And at some point you will experience that, but this is going to screw up your mind to how things work or how things are supposed to be.
00:07:11
Speaker
And it will skew your view of a lot of things, not just women, but sex in general. It may skew your view of yourself. Like there's so many things that go bad here. And, you know, honestly, what's scary is that we had to hope we happened upon it when we were kids.
00:07:27
Speaker
Hope that we happened upon it in like an abandoned house or you know like somehow got under the uncle's bed and found it like now it's so easy to get to and they're also coming out with more more stuff where i came from religious background so i had the the shame and guilt of.
00:07:43
Speaker
of it being a horrible sin. It was so heavy on me that you just fall back into this like, I'm a horrible person, right? And I didn't want that for him because I remember how that felt. And now it's so easy to get to. But what's crazy is that now they are looking at studies of brains where
00:08:07
Speaker
it really messes actually physically messes with your brain and to that level i was able to speak to it outside of a religious understanding so i was coming at him like this is bad and this is shameful i was able to be like hey man this is a this is a good thing turned bad it's a good thing it's a great thing and a wonderful beautiful thing that we have
00:08:33
Speaker
we as humans have distorted. And at the same time, I was also able to say, and it really will jack with your brain to a level that is not good. And I didn't have to bring the God aspect into it. Not that I didn't want to, but I didn't have to make him be afraid he was going to go to hell for it. And that's where I lived when I was growing up. I want to see it, and yet I'm afraid, and I'm going to go to hell. All these things.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so when we had that conversation, I was so chill and so calm about it because I was like, Hey man, you're human and you're a dude. This is a normal desire. It's like, I feel like it was the first time that I looked at my son and was like, you're human too, man.
00:09:18
Speaker
I don't know where the disconnect was up to that point, but all the other stuff they do, they're kids. So you think, I lived this way before, but it was like, well, you're less than, you're just a kid. You don't understand, you don't have life experience. All of the things, forgetting that he is in fact a human, and they do in fact have all the emotions that we have.
00:09:40
Speaker
And they just can't express it. All of that has changed for me. But at that point, I realized, you need to hear this. When I was thinking about Zeke, I'm like, you need to hear this from a man who felt this way, understands it, and
Transformative Moment: Son Leaves for College
00:09:52
Speaker
it's going to be OK. So that's one of the big things. That was the biggest thing in his life at that time.
00:09:58
Speaker
man every little thing like the small stuff i'm talking about is like this yeah that was a big moment right that's a big that was a huge moment right that was that was a big and it sounds like you navigate that well yeah it sounds like you addressed it well and as a dad you felt
00:10:13
Speaker
amazing like confident like I address as well as calm and you know it's a human thing and I brought some of the science in and you know as you're talking does a book I have on my shelf called your brain on porn which is actually looking on you know the physiological changes of the brain and a whole bunch of other stuff and that's a whole other side podcast episode that I've actually done before on pornography and what happens with the brain but I think you addressed it and you handed it like a champ like okay I got this and
00:10:37
Speaker
You said, okay, I need to address this calmly and normalize it, not shame it. And this is a big deal, right? And so that you did well. That was well handled. But then it's like the small stuff that we're going to be talking about today is, okay, what about those small things? Do I handle those well?
00:10:52
Speaker
Exactly. And I can tell you that a lot of times I feel like for probably for dads, we don't handle the small stuff. Well, it's the stuff that just starts to annoy you and drive you crazy that you're like, why do I constantly have to repeat myself? And I just did a post about this the other day, but I'm like, maybe because repetition is the mother of all skill, and your kid needs to learn. So they just keep doing something wrong until you're able to until it clicks.
00:11:18
Speaker
They're gonna do the wrong thing until it clicks because how many of us as adults still do the wrong thing? I've heard it say like you're gonna you're gonna keep doing like if you keep doing what you're doing You're gonna keep getting what you're getting until you learn the lesson and honestly Like thank God for the fact that he's gonna keep giving you the opportunity to learn the same lesson over and over again, right? but as
00:11:41
Speaker
as parents, as dads, it's like, why are your shoes always in the middle of the, like we open the door and you take them off and they're right here, right? And that's where I failed horribly because I'd be like, dude, what is the deal? I told you this yesterday. Why is this a conversation we have every day? And I feel like I can tell you this. I'm very aware of it now, but the way we talk to our sons specifically, but the way we talk to our children
00:12:08
Speaker
can be extremely belittling. And I'm a big believer in the fact that that is I'm a big believer that that is that our voice is the voice that it becomes the voice in their head. So if I'm constantly belittling them and constantly talking down to them, then their voice in their head when they're older is going to constantly be belittling them and talking down to them. And so I you know, from that to make your bed and
00:12:35
Speaker
You can say make your bed and want your bed, want their bed married without being a jerk. You know, and I just didn't do that. I'd be like, ah, every morning you wake up, you make your bed. What's the problem? You know, while I'm sitting there with my bed unmade because I'm a jerk, you know, I like, like, how can I, that's kind of how I, that's how I did things. And so it
Cultural Influences on Parenting
00:12:56
Speaker
was, you know, I mean, seriously, like shoes, they're always going to be everywhere. Clothes are not going to make it in the hamper.
00:13:03
Speaker
you know, toys are going to be everywhere. I mean, if you have kids, the dream of having a clean house is likely not going to be realized until your kids are gone. You know, teenagers will break all your stuff. Your kids will, like, they just leave stuff everywhere. I find packages from granola bars and stuff like stuffed in the seats of our, like the cushions of our couch. And I'm like, what is going on?
00:13:28
Speaker
You know, that's all that little stuff. Yeah, and then that little stuff, and I'm wondering, like, a couple questions I want to slow down and kind of tease it out a bit for all the parents. And I totally relate to this, by the way, that those little things can get us kind of frustrated, annoying, aggravated, and, you know, it could lead us to, like, maybe, you know, not being so calm, I would say, or collected.
00:13:52
Speaker
And so if you think about then, or even now when you have these moments, but especially then, what do you think was going on for you? Did you have an awareness of internally what was happening for you? Of why it was so triggering? Or was it still, were you some level of disconnection of meaning like, I'm just frustrated because they're not listening? Or was there something deeper to that that you had an awareness of?
00:14:12
Speaker
What's funny, that's two-part, I think, because I look back and go, oh, that was my problem. But then, no, kids are supposed to just, like, when I was in that stage of life with Zeke specifically, because he is the oldest, when I was in the stage of life I'm in now with, like, Finlay and Wyatt, and don't get me wrong, I still screw this up.
00:14:32
Speaker
But when Zeke, who is 19, was 7, 8, I didn't have the awareness where it's crazy to me to think that I can now step out of the situation mid-situation and almost do a 360 view of what's happening and be like, almost in the middle of it, be like, why are you talking like that? Or why are you so upset? And then click through stuff in milliseconds to come back into the situation and change course.
00:15:01
Speaker
Back then, no, dude, I seriously was thinking kids are supposed to listen to their parents. They're supposed to do what they're told. And I was I was justified and supposed to be like the hard parent who makes them do what they're supposed to do because they have to learn. Gotcha.
00:15:20
Speaker
Like now when I so now when I sit here and I look back at that guy, I feel bad for him. I'm like you're missing out on so many opportunities to just connect with your son you connect with your daughter like you're missing out on so many opportunities to just like be in their life, you know, and so no, I did not have this situational awareness.
00:15:40
Speaker
of there being something deeper or even the I don't I want to say the humility I didn't have the humility in my own spirit to say it's not what he's doing that's really the problem it's triggering something inside of me and that's the thing that needs to be worked on he's a you know they're little they don't have any life experience
00:16:01
Speaker
to to be able to like say well you need to learn these things well perhaps i need to learn what i did what happened to me back then so that i can stop being so you know what happened to me when i was their age so that i can. Adjust it for them you know yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah. So the awareness back then was maybe one dimensional like, no, this, they're just supposed to listen, just supposed to, I'm supposed to be the bad, you know, the hard, the hard parent, the, the, the one who enforces the law or the rules of you must follow and obey and your shoes need to be this way or Benny's doing it. Otherwise there's some type of, you know, punishment, right?
00:16:37
Speaker
because that's what you knew and then and there was a disconnect right it was kind of more surfacey of like this is just what happens now you look back years and with you know hindsight and say wow actually this dude missed out on a lot and here's there was more going on here that he had awareness of and so I'm wondering could you speak to like when you gained or what happened the journey to getting to the place of that light bulb moment or something that clicked in
Overcoming Ego in Parenting
00:17:03
Speaker
of
00:17:03
Speaker
Hmm, maybe, maybe I'm kind of part of this issue here. Maybe, maybe there's something deeper. Maybe it isn't really them. It's me. Like what can you speak to roughly when that happened or how that happened or the journey to that? Absolutely. I can't say it was like one specific thing that all of a sudden clicked. I will say that the, so get, I, so I got, I've been divorced. I don't know if I've said this or not in the past or not, or I probably was between you and me, but like,
00:17:31
Speaker
I was married, had two children, got divorced, got remarried. We have three and four on the way, so total of six kids for the most part. Even with the younger ones, like Finley, Wyatt, Luna, I would say that there was still that going on, but I was fighting it. And the beauty of it is that my wife, Megan, she was so, she is so, she's so strong that when I get that way, where I'm like, you're supposed to do what I say, right?
00:17:59
Speaker
She is not afraid to like mama bear up, right? Because I would say that like I mean, you know how it is Don't mess with mama bear like they like don't mess with the Cubs like they will they'll come at you and if they got it They'll scratch your eyes out I mean, that's I love that and I love that about her cuz she is not afraid to call me out I think that where
00:18:20
Speaker
I think that where that that comes from is even when they were like as they were growing up, I would still say it was within a I would say it's really been a process over the last year year and a half that having my oldest leave the nest has really like really hit me he and so to speak to how I was and how my relationship was with him is it's an ongoing process of healing with him.
00:18:44
Speaker
and having more and more open conversations. But I can see at 19, I can see the things that he does right now that seem to come from how he was treated when he was younger. And so it became a pattern for him. And so because I was like, the best word I can use is oppressive. Because I was more of an oppressive style authoritarian parent,
00:19:10
Speaker
You really are going to get, I think you're going to get two responses. You're going to get the one who bashes back against you and they're not going to want to be around you. Or you're going to get the one that like acquiesces at the moment and you break them and that just kills my soul. And they don't want to be around you because every time they're around you, they don't feel, they don't like who they are around you. They don't like how they feel around you. Why do they want to be near you?
00:19:35
Speaker
All of that really clicked in as we dropped him off at college, I came home and I was like, I don't know what my relationship with my son is not gonna look like because now he's not here all the time. And that really hit home. And all it was was, I don't wanna have that same problem with my other kids. And what I started to do is I started to share those thoughts and I'm a kind of out loud thinker anyways. So when I'm thinking through anything, I usually bounce it off my wife
00:20:04
Speaker
because I just need to hear it out loud and her ideas and run them through.
00:20:09
Speaker
And so some of my sharing on Instagram was really just more conversational in the sense of I'm going, hey, I used to think this way, but something tells me I think it should be something else. And in the midst of that, getting pushback or feedback from that enabled me to start to go, huh, that's interesting. I should take it this direction. And it really started to foster that desire to really understand how to be a better dad. And as that happened and as people
00:20:38
Speaker
Interacted with that ice just start solidifying my own thoughts and the amazing thing is that all of a sudden people start coming out of the woodwork that I can learn from. That I can go wait a second they wrote a book about that ten years ago like I heard this but I was ready for ten years ago ten years ago.
00:20:58
Speaker
Can you speak to that for a second for maybe some of the dad's mom or whoever's listening that might be in that place of like dad? Like what do you think that was like for you that the barrier to being receptive to maybe the quack? Yeah, I think it was it was arrogance in myself.
00:21:17
Speaker
And I think when it comes to men, and this is spoken from my own experience as well, but I think that a lot of men resonate with this, is that we don't want to be weak. We don't want to make weak kids, especially sons. I think we're way harder on our sons than we are on our daughters because the world is harsh. If you're a man, and this is the hard part, I think you speak to this really well, especially for guys like on your reel today, and you're like, does it bear shit in the woods?
00:21:44
Speaker
Exactly. You know, like that was perfect because for men, we think, well, the world is harsh and cruel. And the truth is when you look at statistics, you're going to see there's more men in prison, there's more men that are homeless, there's more men with mental health issues, like all of the things that you see as bad things in this world, they're upon men. And so as fathers, when we're raising our sons, we have this need to make them
00:22:10
Speaker
strong, like they're not allowed to be weak. And so we also then think at least this way, I thought, well, that means I need to be hard. And and so anybody who would have said to me, you know, like, even seven years ago, six years ago, whatever that would have said, like, have you ever considered
00:22:26
Speaker
Like gentle parenting, even to this day, the concept of gentle parenting to me, I feel a resistance inside me. And it's weird because I think that conscious parenting is very understanding of that and probably leans that way, but gentle implied weak to me.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I didn't want to be a weak parent. I'm supposed to be in control. I'm supposed to run the show and you do what I say. And so there was an arrogance and a desire to be the strong parent because obviously strong parents make strong children. And it was just, it was misguided in the sense of how I understood it. But I think that was based out of some serious arrogance and stuff inside me.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I hear some, the other thing I'm hearing too is I think fear of your child being harmed and you, you tell me if this fits fear of your child being harmed. So therefore I need to be tough because I need to again, toughen them up to this harsh world. And so then I need to, it's kind of like, that's, it's a way of like a misguided way of protecting in a way. Cause the, the goal is like the intention is there's a good intention, but it's a, it's like a one dimensional view of what that might look like. Right.
00:23:37
Speaker
And then you kind of spoke to it earlier that, you know, then why do men and women too, but why do so many men struggle with, you know, higher suicide rates or at mental health issues or other problems, drug, alcohol stuff. Like if we are making quote unquote tougher men by this way of parenting, but being harsh and hard on them, is it the question then begs, is it actually effective? Like that view, that very narrowed view of, of parenting, is it actually effective? Right. Yeah.
00:24:04
Speaker
So, and obviously not, you know, that's, we do know. But so for you back then, it was kind of an arrogance, a fear.
Control and Its Impact on Parenting
00:24:10
Speaker
I have to also, I don't want to be weak because I'm guessing admitting that I need help would be weak. Right. If I, if I don't have the, if I have to look to someone else, help me parent, that's admitting that I'm, I'm, I'm weak and that's not okay. I think that was part of it too. It could very well be. I mean, when I like, I look at my heritage too, like my father, my grandfather.
00:24:29
Speaker
When you hear the stories, the stories they would tell is, you know, my dad, this is my grandfather is a legend in my family, like, like much love to him. Like he passed away 10 years ago, but, but like the way I can tell this is as an example. So my, my dad was like 15 years old and he put on my grandfather's shoes and he goes, look dad.
00:24:48
Speaker
I can wear your shoes. And my grandfather turned around and took his elbow and just, bam, dropped him off of his feet, shot him out of the shoes, basically, to the floor, and was like, the trick son is staying in him. That was touted as manly. And it's like, my grandfather was a huge man. I mean, when he passed away, there were people that came to the funeral were like, he's the strongest man I ever knew. He's the strongest man I ever met.
00:25:18
Speaker
stories I got to hear about him at his funeral that I'm like, wow, he is legendary. So there's a part of me that goes, wow, that blood runs in my veins. That's amazing. But the other side of it is the harshness of growing up in the 30s and being treated poorly by his parents or his dad specifically, like
00:25:35
Speaker
I think 11 years old, he had a full-time job. Like that's the kind of stuff you deal with. And then my dad, like he wanted better for his sons, but he didn't know any better. So there was still that, like that to me, like to a lot of people, that's abuse, but that was touted as like just dad being dad, like beating up on his sons. And so I didn't get that kind of training from my father because he saw that as not so great.
00:26:03
Speaker
But at the same time, that kind of strength and power of being dad had to come with him. So his came with a stern voice, and you'll do what I say, and this is how it works. So when I look at that, I go, well, that's literally the default setting for me.
00:26:19
Speaker
And so my examples and the people that I had around me as father figures to say that's who I'm going to be, they didn't do conscious, gentle parenting. They didn't look at teaching boys to be emotionally aware.
00:26:38
Speaker
It was, we do work, we're feathers, we're made of sterner stuff than that. That's just kind of one of the statements that was made from generation down. So I think some of it may come from weakness, but it also comes from not wanting to be weak. But it also came from, it's so bad, I love my father.
00:26:56
Speaker
But there are some things he would say with Zeke specifically when he was little. He's like, yeah, he just doesn't mind. He doesn't mind what you say. He doesn't do what you tell him to. And it was almost like he wasn't – I can't say he was trying to. But then I'm going, oh, I have to make him mind. I have to do the things that make him –
00:27:15
Speaker
be controlled especially when he's around my dad but so it's me trying to like there's so much i'm sure as like a therapist you can you can unpack there be like wow nate is really screwed up no no but it's one of those things where when i look at that i go oh that's why i spent a lot of time trying to appease my dad because the truth is i didn't get approval from my dad i
00:27:37
Speaker
So as a dad, I'm trying to raise my son the way I see my dad wanting me to raise him so that I could get his approval. And all it did was make more disconnect between me and my son. And if you're not willing to basically hold the shield from your ancestors to keep your kids from taking those arrows or just take them yourself,
00:27:59
Speaker
then they're gonna get hit. And so as a father, I keep going back, going, I have to be willing to take whatever arrows come from the ancestry and just be like, yeah, that's fine. I mean, you can think that, that's okay. Then continue to do what I'm doing so that they can grow in better soil, it would be.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, and so, I mean, what I'm hearing, there's definitely a strong family cultural narrative of being a man, right, being a feather, and so what that looks like, and even what's also interesting, though, is what your dad did, in a way, he kind of, he knew there was something different about this, and maybe some good, but also some not so helpful for him.
00:28:38
Speaker
And so he took this step and then you were in this position of, okay, I want my dad's approval, which I think is so common and I think not talked about enough, but there is some such a strong pull of seeking approval from our father being enough for, you know, having value and having worth and things and looking for them. I mean, I remember feeling it too with my dad when I was younger. I want to just want to be approved by him. I want to be seen as enough.
00:29:03
Speaker
And so I would do certain things in order to garner that approval, which wasn't effective because, you know, at the time I still wouldn't get it, right? So it's kind of like this subconscious thing. And so, so part of your, what I'm hearing for you is one, I got to be strong. I want to protect my kids from the world. So I got to be this harsh, strong parent, be the bad to kind of toughen them, toughen them up. Then you have this cultural family narrative of what it means.
00:29:27
Speaker
on top of that and then you just got I think I'm assuming just also just growing up in our culture of like what it means to be a guy versus you know what's okay what's not okay what's the rules what are you know what are you know like what what can guys do and not do you know don't be vulnerable all the all the classic stuff yeah
00:29:42
Speaker
and then so you have all that as a parent and you're trying to parent your kids and maybe teaching your son the oldest kind of how you were taught and maybe doing a little better realizing okay this is what my dad did didn't like that as much i'm still gonna take a step down the path but still hitting a wall of like finding myself stuck and maybe some of that authoritarian you know like i'm just you gotta listen i gotta toughen you up
00:30:03
Speaker
And so that was kind of what you're bringing in, and I think that's so important because often there's a story as to why we do what we
Reflecting on Growth and Parenting Philosophy
00:30:10
Speaker
do. It's not just because. It's never just, oh, I'm just doing this. There's always a story. There's always a reason as to why someone's behavior is the way it is, even if it's not good.
00:30:21
Speaker
Even if we look in saying, ooh, that's not helpful, but there's always a story. There's always some experiences that lead us to this place of seeing that this is maybe okay or normal because that's often what we experienced or what we're trying to maybe push up against too to some degree.
00:30:38
Speaker
Oh yeah. So you brought that in and then what hit you was your son leaving and you had something clicked inside of like, oh, I'm not going to see him as much and something's different. So something inside started to stir. And so that's maybe it sounds like when the, maybe there's little moments too of shifts happening of like, you know, awareness, clicking, clicking, clicking. And then when he left, it sounds like it really hit. And then you started the verbal processing and.
00:30:59
Speaker
And then things started to shift and the snowball in a good way started to happen. I guess a good snowball of picking up speed. And then so and then what happened? Did you like reach out and talk to someone? Like did you start reading books? Like what you know so you had this awareness and so what was the next step for you if you were to look back like you know and if you were going to encourage like you know your younger self kind of what you're kind of doing now with the work you do is what would you encourage you then you know how would you could you speak to yourself then to take that step to grow?
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, it's kind of interesting because in the same moment that I am at the same time that I would not have been a guy who would read parent parenting books, right? I would be the guy who would read like self improvement books, right? And so like, how do I become better? I'm the guy that's like, Okay, how do I? How do I get stronger? How do I get stronger, faster? How do I get faster? Like, who do I need to look to to do that? How do I make more money? Like, what do I want to do to make
00:31:54
Speaker
you know x amount of dollars like i'm the guy that i love read i'm a total nerd and so i'll read all of those things but weirdest thing to say i was too arrogant to even be like yeah i'll read a parenting book
00:32:08
Speaker
And so I think what ended up happening was that clicked and I was like, what am I going to do? And I will say that. So I posted one of a video that went viral and that really got a following going and it got me going.
00:32:25
Speaker
Well, I've been posting videos about other things. I definitely want to help people. And I remember being like, I don't want dads to feel the way I do. If you're the father of a three-year-old and you are the way I was, man, get as humble as you can. Start reading. Start following. Get people around you that are not thinking like you because it will help you build up what your concept is. I could get into it if you want me to,
00:32:54
Speaker
When I was see this would have been right before Zeke was born. So I was 20. I was 23. And I was living outside of the country. I was living in Costa Rica. I was working as a missionary learning Spanish. And I had started reading these books about this concept that feels very heretical to a lot of people about how like does God if God is omniscient, does he know all things or does he know everything? And what I mean by that is does he know all things that could be and are
00:33:21
Speaker
and like what was what is what is to come that kind of thing or could you just be aware of everything because he's everywhere all the same time and i started working through that concept and then i had to then i started bringing it into my classroom in spanish so i had to think about it even more.
00:33:39
Speaker
Because I had to translate the words so that I could have these conversations with my classmates in Spanish because I'm there with a bunch of Baptist missionaries. I was not Baptist, and so they thought completely differently than I did. And that is one thing that I always enjoyed that I may have just be I like to be the devil's advocate, but I would literally just try to take the complete opposite understanding of something.
00:34:01
Speaker
and then bring it into a conversation so that I could see if I really believed it. The reason I bring that up is because it really solidified in me what my beliefs about God were at that time with that particular concept.
00:34:16
Speaker
fast forward all the way to a year and a half ago, and that's pretty much what I started to do was the sum of the content I put out was really, I'm thinking this way, and I think I have enough to back it up to where if someone were to come back at me to talk about fatherhood specifically, the one I'm thinking of is I did a reel about Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child, gave some cultural historical background and said, yeah, I don't think it means what we want it to mean,
00:34:43
Speaker
And I think it definitely doesn't mean that we should spank our kids. Now, there is a verse right behind that that does say, to a level, I'm going to destroy it. But if you beat him, he's not going to die. But wouldn't it be better if he didn't die and you did that to keep him safe?
00:34:57
Speaker
Yes, there is that right there. And tons of people push back on that. But I also took, I know Proverbs are like little blips of wisdom. They're not, they are to be in a whole concept of like when you exegete passage it is, there's a whole concept that comes from. But I'm not trying to take that out of context. I was trying to understand that cultural and why would he say that, right? And so in that moment, I just said, I think it means that when we don't protect our children,
00:35:24
Speaker
We ruin them and not, if we don't beat them or spank them to discipline them, we spoil them and like spoil brats. I was like, I think that the wording and the concept is different. And the truth is I got so much pushback on that, that I looked at my wife and I said, I think I'm onto something. You know, like in the comments, I could be like, that's a dad, that's a dad, that's a dad. Because the vehement, you're totally wrong. You're leading people down a wrong path.
00:35:53
Speaker
you know, people bringing up the verse right behind it, all that stuff. I'm like, are you advocating for spanking your children right now? Are you advocating for hitting little people? Like, that's what it felt like to me. And, and so as I worked through that, I just kept solidifying in my heart that I think I'm on to something here with this whole, why do we have to yell at our kids? Why do we have to spank our kids? No joke, man. Within weeks, Dr. Shafali like dropped into my feed, like just
00:36:21
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I walk impact theory with Tom Bilyeu all the time.
00:36:25
Speaker
And there's a four-year-old video of her on his show that I've never seen before. And I watch his stuff constantly. And I'm like, how did I miss this? And there she is talking about conscious parenting. And I'm going, this is the stuff I'm talking about. So to a level, I didn't really start reading a bunch of books. I just really started to verbally say, well, what if it was different and let people almost attack me to take it so that I could really start to solidify what I believed?
00:36:54
Speaker
And then came Gabor Mate, I think I said his name right, Shafali. Actually, honestly, that's when I started connecting with people like you. The more I do this, the more people like you just come into my life and help me go, yeah, I'm on the right path.
00:37:15
Speaker
What I'm hearing that is this plain devil's advocate, meaning why am I doing this? Why is my belief system around why I'm so demanding with my kid and my eldest? And something shifted where maybe me felt a little off.
00:37:32
Speaker
Because again, it sounds like there's layers here, the layer of your family culture, pleasing your father to then how you've sensed being a parent. There's layers to this. And then you get to a point where, similar to maybe when you're in your 20s of playing devil's advocate, really trying to challenge people, which makes you think why you believe what you believe, which is important for all of our belief systems. Actually, why do I think this? Whatever it could be.
00:37:55
Speaker
why I think getting steak is more effective than fit, whatever it might be, right? Or why waking up early versus going to bed late, you know, or religious perspective, whatever it is, is actually challenging, which is part of also, I think, growing up and maturing is kind of in a way deconstructing why I believe this and to build it back up again. So actually, it's firmer. It's, you know, why, you know, setting a good foundation. And so you did that with your parenting and then started putting this up out there, then you started getting pushback, which for you, it sounds like it helped you kind of
00:38:22
Speaker
Oh, let me ask more questions and think and ask this and then oh my gosh. So then people start dropping in at the right time. It sounds like maybe two, you're in a place to see it. I think sometimes two, if we're, we could be so focused on a certain perspective that we tune out, so to speak, anything else. And so it's like we have blinders on so we won't see, we only see what we want to see until we're ready to kind of say, well,
00:38:44
Speaker
you know the why question why do i believe this why do i think this way which kind of opens up our blinders to kind of maybe take a step back and get a bigger view and say huh i don't know why but why my dad did this my grandfather and but then i see this and why do i think that's weak why why do i think that's weak i don't know i just know it's i feel like it's weak
00:39:01
Speaker
But why? And then, oh, maybe this is why. And so this started happening. And then you started kind of learning and expanding and growing and reading and getting other authors on and like Shafali and... Did you speak to Gabor Monte? That's awesome if you did, by the way. No, I haven't. Man, that'd be awesome. You saw him. Okay. I was like, I was like, dang, that's awesome.
00:39:19
Speaker
He popped up again. It's stuff like that. I feel like, like, you know, the student is ready. The teacher appears. Totally. All sorts of teachers popped up into my feed, like YouTube, Instagram. It was crazy. And even still to this day, I mean, I started liking stuff from, I don't know what her real name is, Elle Breggy. If you don't follow her, she's a great follow, but she is, she has a lot more with motherhood, but I resonate with a lot of that. Sure.
00:39:44
Speaker
but I started following her and I think that's, I mean, you start following stuff and more people just show up. That is a plus side to the algorithm of a lot of social media, you know? Yeah, there's a plus, I agree, there's a plus within limits and structure. Yeah, that's true. Especially with kids.
Understanding Children's Emotional Needs
00:40:00
Speaker
So coming to today with kind of what you're doing now, like you had this journey and really having to challenge yourself, really. What I'm hearing, the big theme is challenging yourself, your own perspective.
00:40:11
Speaker
And where that came from and trying to examine it from a healthier perspective too, like, okay, why was my dad the way he was or my mom and where did they come from? What was their story to give me perspective as to their way of doing life? And then how does all that impact me for better, for also better? And then now as a parent, when I'm dealing with some of these small issues that are really triggering for my emotional state, it's like I'm highly frustrated or I'm angry or I'm annoyed or demanding.
00:40:40
Speaker
Now with some of the work you've done, you've been able to kind of maybe take a step back and examine it from a healthier view. So I'm wondering as we kind of start to come to a close, a couple things. One, what are a couple, now with the small stuff, what are some things you do practically when you maybe notice some of that really strong emotional reaction like maybe high frustration or high annoyance or
00:41:05
Speaker
you know, high, maybe even anger. Like what do you do practically to kind of slow down, so to speak, and collect your thoughts to be more responsive versus reactive? Like what do you do?
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah. So there's one major that as it starts to rise, if my wife is around, she, again, she's not afraid to say something. And so my, my suggestion to men is listen, listen to your wife, you don't have to do everything she says. I'm not that guy that's like, Oh, yeah, I just roll over and let her run the show. That's not what I mean. But my wife will say, like, she'll be like, Do you need to talk like that? Do you need to do that? Like, and most of the time, I used to get real mad. And she'll tell you, she
00:41:44
Speaker
I'll tell you like that I get frustrated now too. I don't really get frustrated. I can literally she'll do that and I will pull out for a second and just be like, do I really need to do that? And then and then I can come back into the conversation. So sometimes just my wife just being there and saying something is so extremely helpful.
00:42:02
Speaker
i hope she hears this because i probably don't tell her that enough but it's so extremely helpful to have that so for guys that have a wife that doesn't parent exactly like them or that parents more this way and when they're harder man just at least take what she's having to say and try to see it outside of your own perspective
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, because even in the moment, most of us guys are going to be really frustrated because if you're like me, not only are you now like dealing with the authority issue that you're the authority and your family and your kids are supposed to listen to you, but now your wife is is directly opposed to that authority and in front of your kids sometimes maybe and I'm not saying that that should be the case, but I mean,
00:42:44
Speaker
Honestly, if you're wrong, you're going to need to have the humility to be okay with being wrong and then be like, you know what? You're right. I'm so sorry about that. That's not how I talk. So having a spouse that that will will say something does give you that space. Even just a little quick. Hey, hey, hey, just that can be enough to go. I don't need to talk like this. I don't need to do that.
00:43:06
Speaker
So it sounds like with that, what I'm hearing is part of it's like letting go of your own ego and really taking seriously what your partner's spouse is saying, saying, okay, how can I, you know, what's the truth in here? What are they trying to help me, you know, do and be better? Almost like letting that sink in and actually take it seriously versus just be, just defend against it and push it away. But like, okay, let me take this seriously. Maybe listen to what they're trying to get at to help me be better, more effective.
00:43:32
Speaker
and really when i get my defense is prime my ego saying no i got it right you know so allowing the influence of the other to help you so that's one thing let's say she's not there let's say you're on your own and you know you're out with the kids or whatever and in some some small things started to kind of get under your skin.
Managing Personal Emotions
00:43:47
Speaker
because the old you would probably, you know, I don't know, demand, yell, punish, things like that, right? Like take away tablets and ground them, isolate, you know, put them on timeouts, things like that, and maybe yell, demand. But so what do you do now to slow down, to ramp it down when you are starting to feel heightened and have frustration, anger, annoyance? Yeah, sure. I really do. I really do breathe. Like I think I've actually heard you say like four breaths, like breathe in deep, like hold for four, like I will be in the middle of something and be like,
00:44:18
Speaker
And just try to breathe out breathe in breathe out and and then come back to it Sometimes he's really just that's all it takes I do have an advantage. I'm not saying I have an advantage over other dads I think I have an advantage in my own life at this point that I'm far enough into this journey that I have awareness of a lot of things so for me it's like why am I taking the tablet the instant if I take a tablet the instant I
00:44:41
Speaker
if i take it in a moment like my my inner voice will be like why are we taking that right now is that gonna serve them like being being okay with talking to yourself and it sounds crazy but like being able to talk to yourself and in a moment in that same moment and and then and then have that conversation internally again i feel like our internal conversations are fast.
00:45:01
Speaker
So it doesn't take 10 minutes in my head, it's like seconds. So I take a tablet or something like that and I'm like, no, you know, this, that. And then it's like, then I'll hear my voice go, why are you taking that? Like, you give them a certain amount of time on there, why are you taking it early? What's the big deal, right? I hate video games. Like, ask.
00:45:22
Speaker
Like I have a real, like there's dads out there that are like, yeah, just play video games with your kid. Great idea. I love that. And if it works, do it. I'm not that dad. Like I'm like, I hate them so much because most of the time I see my kids play them, get frustrated. I've seen my youngest son want to throw his tablet. He gets so mad. He cries. I'm like, why are we doing this?
00:45:44
Speaker
About the video game that's doing it to him, there's something else there. So I've got to take the tablet at that point to talk about this whole regulations thing. Sometimes I'll just be like, come here, man. I have had a six-year-old kid in my lap just holding him, crying about something on Minecraft. And I'm just like, it's going to be OK, buddy. It's all right. And that is not the way I would have been before.
00:46:08
Speaker
That's because I've sat there and said, okay, I don't like video games, but it's something they like. Again, coming back to this, I keep coming back to the whole humility and fighting your ego because I think that's where sweating the small stuff or not sweating the small stuff comes from. A lot of mine probably comes from control because I didn't feel like I had control of anything when I was younger, so now I want control of everything.
00:46:33
Speaker
you know the best thing i can do for my own kids is to stop trying to control everything so recognizing my own stuff and in the moments having my own little internal conversations and then adjusting as i go it's it's hard to give advice on that or say this is practical other than
00:46:51
Speaker
It just has become part of my life because I've been able to say, okay, that is a full little human. How would I feel if I always had somebody telling me no, and always had somebody sitting there telling me I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that, taking my stuff? Oh my gosh, I would be a rageaholic. I would be so angry all the time. Well, Q, a seven-year-old who doesn't know how to regulate his emotions,
00:47:13
Speaker
and do all that to him totally he's gonna have an emotional reaction yeah yeah you're you're like the you're both the kerosene in the match on at that point and you said something that just totally just hit me and you tell me if this fits but you you got to like a deeper part there and and maybe that's what this is all about or has been at least for you and maybe some of the men out there and they're
00:47:35
Speaker
And this may not be their exact narrative, but my guess is there's probably something close to this. But you said part of why maybe I became hyper, you know, like authoritarian, you know, the bad guy, the domineering parent of like, you just keep listening is because I didn't have a lot of control of my, when I was a kid.
00:47:51
Speaker
And so I'm seeking the control to try to make it okay and fix it and make sure we're safe and okay. But in that light, if I do that, I might actually miss those opportunities of my kid to sit and hold him when he's crying and just being a safe space for him because I might become the threat now to my kid.
00:48:07
Speaker
Because it's on my own fear and my own pain from not having control and now I'm trying to like like demand it and force it which is actually creating more distance and more more suffering so to speak for me for my kid and for our relationship rather than.
00:48:25
Speaker
You know, I think a question is like, what am I doing? What is my intention here? What am I really trying to get out with my kid? What do they actually need right now? What do I actually need right now? Because right now I'm sensing I feel out of control and so I'm trying to force it. So if I put that down, what am I actually needing?
Continuous Self-Improvement in Parenting
00:48:42
Speaker
And what are they actually needing?
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, that's, that's spot on. I love how you, how you put that too. And I think the hard part is that because they're little and they can't do it, we're almost required to set our stuff down and help them deal with theirs first.
00:49:02
Speaker
within the moment, right in the moment, I've got to take care of the six year old, right? But when but that's why I lean hard on discipline in the sense of self discipline. That's why I'm up early to work out because that helps me regulate and helps me deal with stress. It gives me time in the car alone. That's why like when there are alone moments,
00:49:21
Speaker
for me to work on self or when i'm reading i don't i don't read i don't i don't read non-fiction that's not a hit on non-fiction or i don't read fiction like it's not a hit on that if you like like fantasy novels and stuff like that totally cool i don't do it because i don't get a lot of time to read on my own
00:49:37
Speaker
And I would rather read something that's going to make me better than just something that's going to entertain me. You know, and that doesn't mean I don't watch TV, but all of that to say like in those moments where I can learn how to become better, I need to take advantage of that because there are plenty of moments with my children awake where.
00:49:55
Speaker
I need to I need to attend to them first, because they just can't. They they need me not me needing them in that situation. And so I have to be able to take my stuff, set it down. And like my need to control needs to go over here. And my need to and their need to connect needs to take a higher precedence. And if I'm not working on myself outside of those moments, when I'm in those moments, my need to control will be there and I'll not set it aside.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah. And something else you said right there is that they, in this moment, they need, they need me more. They need, like, I need, like I'm their guide because I think one thing too, that I see a lot over here is a lack of education on brain of essentially brain development and child development of where they are at ages where we expect as parents, kids to be able to do things perfectly all the time. And just like you show them one time and you should, you should know this, right? Like I, I
00:50:45
Speaker
I just told you this five minutes ago, what's wrong with you? Or we just talked about this last week, right? Cause we get in that mindset of like, I already told you this and you did it, and they did it well. And then they don't do it well the next time. Cause we get in this mindset like, well, it's like, you've already done this. Like, come on. But we have to remember that actually how development works. And this goes, I think back to something we talked earlier is that kind of repetition of, of, you know, time and time again, it's like, it's, it's, what did you say? You said it so well. It was the mother of all skill.
00:51:14
Speaker
there you go thank you that it's exactly right because eventually they're gonna get it and they're gonna like with the shoes and all the other things it's you teach them but it's it's the how you teach them but if you just yell at them you know they might learn but what's what are they actually learning you know versus you know what does the teacher do you know how do we actually be a helpful guide as a father
00:51:33
Speaker
where they're not actually trying to seek our approval, they know we approve them for who they are, and in turn can do these things, and know that they're still gonna have to grow just like we are, like you said, like I could demand my kids all day long and make their beds, but it's my bedmate, like am I actually modeling this stuff?
00:51:49
Speaker
You know? And so, you know, as a final close-up question, you know, if you could encourage dads maybe where you were, you know, a couple years ago, what do you think, and this is, you know, what do you think you could have said or heard from someone that might have kind of gone past some of your ego or barriers or stuff that maybe a dad can listen to today and it might sink in. Like, what would you say? What could you say?
00:52:14
Speaker
I think that I would say the advice I would give if they were willing to hear advice would be be as humble as you can be like be be willing to learn because if you're if you're humble at least in that in those moments knowing you don't know everything gives you the ability to go well I don't know everything let me listen and then you're at least open to something even if you end up on that is quackery and I totally disagree
00:52:38
Speaker
That's okay, but being open to listen to it and being willing to be like you could be right and I could be wrong. That is great. The thing I would say if it was somebody like me who probably wouldn't have wanted to listen is I was talking with a guy and I said something to this level. It was like the cost of me not having the ability to do this all over again with my oldest.
00:53:02
Speaker
is so high that if you can put me in a time machine with what I know now and go back, I'd pay any price, right? So I guess the thing I would say to that guy is, what if this way worked?
00:53:17
Speaker
Like what if what if calm conscious parenting actually did what you really wanted wanted to accomplish? Would you be willing to try it? And then just if they say if that guy said like if they said yes, then help them walk through that.
00:53:33
Speaker
Because I think back in the day, if someone, and that's the hard part, is that you don't have a bunch of guys walking around going, hey, this whole fatherhood thing is wicked hard, and you're gonna screw up a lot, and you probably are gonna do it wrong most of the time. Let me help you. You don't have that. You have guys like you and me on Instagram, but I'm just somebody on a video, right? You don't have real guys standing around you doing that. And guys, we need that. I mean, look at every tribe back in the day.
00:54:03
Speaker
We learned to even now all around the world, like where you can find a more tribal style living. You have men teaching each other, you know, teaching the boys to become men. The older men are respected and listen to not because they're old, but because they've already experienced it. You know, so yeah, I would I would say having somebody look at me and go, well, what if what if everything you think is wrong and this would actually accomplish what you're looking for with you at least give it a shot.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah, that'd be a big ego hit for, you know, if you're in that place of not knowing the lesson of like, oof, because that's looking in the mirror and saying, ooh, maybe I'm part of the problem. Yeah. Right. And that's going back to the humility piece. Hey, I think those are good questions and Nate, I appreciate your time today. And my hope is that wherever you are listening to this, mom or dad, or Hey, maybe you're still, maybe you don't have kids yet. That's okay. That this is something you could take away from, from Nate's wisdom and from his experience and say, maybe ask those questions like, Hey, what?
00:54:58
Speaker
Can I exam my life? And why am I doing what I'm doing? And what's my narrative? And can I challenge it a bit and maybe ask some different questions? And, you know, am I sweating the small stuff? Am I getting stuck in these small moments that are really triggering? And if I am, that's okay, but use it as an opportunity to go deeper with yourself to figure out what is this really about? Is it about control? Is it about safety? Is it about proving your worth, that competence? There's often something, some need that's hidden behind often these big emotions, even for ourselves.
00:55:28
Speaker
So Nate, thank you. You could find the links to Nate's stuff down below in the description, whether on YouTube or if you're on the audio, it's also there. Reach out to him. He's a great guy. Please do. I think he's congratulated him on his new baby. I think he's also working on some stuff that might be coming out soon sometime. I think he's working on some other things that he's going to be offering, which, you know, when he does, I'm excited to promote it. But, you know, anyway, blessings. Thank you so much and have a great day. Yeah, you too. Thanks, man.