Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Roxie Roots’ Revelations & Roasts
27 Plays2 years ago
Roxie Roots - a sex trade survivor and proud kink shamer joins the queens to reveal all the parts of the sex trade they try to keep hidden and epically roast her former johns.
Roxie Roots Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/roxieroots
Join our newsletter: https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
FDS War Room on the Queen Patreon Tier: https://www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/femdatstrat
Follow us!
Weekly Bonus Content/Merch/Discord on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/femdatstrat
Website:https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/femdatstrat
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thefemaledatingstrategy/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/The-Female-Dating-Strategy-109118567480771
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:06
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest and the only podcast on the internet.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I am Savannah.
00:00:14
Speaker
And today we are joined by a very, very special guest.
00:00:19
Speaker
She is a survivor of the sex trade and a radical feminist and awesome, awesome tweeter.
00:00:25
Speaker
Is that the name if somebody uses Twitter?
00:00:28
Speaker
Well, it is now.
00:00:29
Speaker
A twatter.
00:00:30
Speaker
No, I don't think that's right.
00:00:31
Speaker
Do you know what a twatter is?
00:00:34
Speaker
I've just...
00:00:38
Speaker
A musketeer?
00:00:41
Speaker
A tweeter.
00:00:42
Speaker
Anyway, she has an awesome, awesome Twitter account that is an absolute must follow for anybody interested in all things, you know, radical feminism and sex trade abolition as well.
Roxy's Background and Views
00:00:52
Speaker
I am delighted to welcome the wonderful Roxy Roots to the FDS podcast.
00:00:56
Speaker
Hi, Roxy.
00:00:57
Speaker
Welcome, welcome.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hi.
00:01:00
Speaker
Nice to be here.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, lovely to meet you too.
00:01:03
Speaker
And thank you so much for joining us.
00:01:05
Speaker
As I've previously just mentioned, I've been following your Twitter for quite a while now.
00:01:08
Speaker
And I always, always, always loved your takes on the sex trade and BDSM.
00:01:14
Speaker
And these are some of the issues that we'll be discussing with Roxy in this episode today.
00:01:18
Speaker
And you were recommended to us by Elie Aro.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:22
Speaker
As a person who could talk firsthand about some of the more hidden aspects of the sex trade and like, what's it like, how girls are shuffled into it and then, you know, the pathway out.
00:01:33
Speaker
So Roxy, would you like to introduce yourself and, you know, tell us about yourself?
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:01:39
Speaker
So I'm Roxy Roots, as you said.
00:01:42
Speaker
I am a sex trade survivor, and I am a woman with a very common story, I would say.
00:01:49
Speaker
I fill the classic profile of your quote-unquote woman next door, which is someone who actually started her life with trauma.
00:02:01
Speaker
So I have very early childhood sexual abuse trauma,
00:02:06
Speaker
That happened in, you know, in family settings.
00:02:09
Speaker
I'm the youngest of three sisters and it happened to all three of us.
00:02:14
Speaker
And when I was five, it actually came out.
00:02:16
Speaker
So the grooming, my first grooming kind of like came out.
00:02:20
Speaker
And what followed was also something that is very common for women like me, which is, you know, a life lived with the feeling of like being wrong, weird, different, alien.
Trauma and Entry into the Sex Trade
00:02:37
Speaker
was my feeling up until I actually like snapped out of my final hero's journey of entering and leaving the sex trade.
00:02:47
Speaker
Oh my gosh so that's it's quite a traumatic background that you came from then I guess in terms of the women that you met during your time in the sex trade would you say that was quite common for them to come from a similar background to yourself?
00:03:03
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:03:04
Speaker
Like, you know, we trauma bonded.
00:03:05
Speaker
And like, for me, coming into the sex trade, like, I think it's the same story for so many other women that they're searching for belonging as well as like, you know, perhaps like some kind of like feeling of sisterhood.
00:03:17
Speaker
And I think that's what I stumbled into as well.
00:03:20
Speaker
And so a lot of women come from, you know, council housing backgrounds, you know, like they had it really hard.
00:03:26
Speaker
They also had bullying and all this kind of experience.
00:03:30
Speaker
Perhaps there are more and more alternative girls getting pushed into the industry as well because there's this whole insecurity thing.
00:03:40
Speaker
Perhaps, well, this is how it was for me, someone who always felt kind of like outlaw or like a misfit or something like that.
00:03:49
Speaker
To have this industry wave with wads of cash and
00:03:54
Speaker
social media portraying these women themselves portraying themselves on social media like they've made it and stuff you know this can obviously lead women into this kind of like yeah dream of getting out of the misery that they've been in before so before i started the in the sex trade i never had a job for longer than a year i've worked in corporate world i worked everywhere but like i couldn't
00:04:19
Speaker
Like I can't, I have like the highest sick days, like I can't work.
00:04:24
Speaker
So that is something that I've heard women say, women with like trauma experiences and women with mental health, they're now even saying it.
00:04:34
Speaker
They're doing this work, like quote unquote work, online prostitution in the form of OnlyFans, for example, because it's the only job
00:04:43
Speaker
The only job that they find is like an option for them, you know, so it's like a meeting ground for all these
Economic Vulnerability and the Sex Trade
00:04:50
Speaker
outlaws.
00:04:50
Speaker
And yeah, I trauma bonded with lots of my former quote unquote colleagues.
00:04:55
Speaker
And I felt like, oh my God, we're so similar, but we are, I don't know.
00:05:00
Speaker
That's what I probably said back then was like, at least I'm getting paid for it, I guess.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:06
Speaker
So that's an interesting tidbit because that has been an argument I've seen from a lot of sex workers is that, oh, well, I couldn't work a normal job.
00:05:15
Speaker
And a lot of it has to do with untreated trauma, untreated mental illness, untreated learning disabilities.
00:05:20
Speaker
And so a lot of women who tried office work and there's a structure to office work, there's a culture around it.
00:05:28
Speaker
So it can be really difficult.
00:05:29
Speaker
And I say this as a person who also grew up
00:05:31
Speaker
really, really poor, didn't understand a lot of the language of like an office work.
00:05:35
Speaker
And yeah, it felt like, you know, like an outsider, felt like a weirdo myself.
00:05:39
Speaker
That yes, if you come into that kind of environment where you're dealing with people that are fortunate enough to not have poverty or trauma, they have like a whole language in the way that they are.
00:05:47
Speaker
And it can be really alienating for people who don't experience.
00:05:49
Speaker
And I feel like I sometimes do feel like women in particular can be like, there's not as much like
00:05:54
Speaker
outreach or coaching for women like that.
00:05:56
Speaker
Whereas I feel like for men, sometimes you feel like the white collar work is to sort of integrate them into the group.
00:06:01
Speaker
But for women, it's really easy to fall through the cracks and then become economically vulnerable enough for someone else, someone who is giving you the promise of fast cash and an easy life and setting your own schedule.
00:06:13
Speaker
All the things that people that do these marketing schemes, multi-level marketing schemes, promise people, except it's just for the sex trade.
00:06:21
Speaker
Because you think it's going to be a pathway...
00:06:23
Speaker
for a job that, you know, gives you obviously financial stability, but also doesn't put like the same cultural, structural pressure of showing up to a traditional white collar job.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:34
Speaker
But we also have to obviously say, like, with it comes or what pushes women into that is obviously the normalization of it all.
00:06:42
Speaker
And also the sheer ignorance of how the normalization and even like, you know, the lobbying for removing highly dangerous sex practices out of, you know, mental health diagnosis books and stuff like that, that actually, you know, leads to
00:06:59
Speaker
women not even acknowledging or realizing or knowing or understanding that what they're doing to themselves or what they regard as sex or edgy, progressive sexual behavior, that it's not, you know, and that's, I think, really difficult these days.
00:07:17
Speaker
It seems like a lot of women's emotional trauma is like criminally undiagnosed if it doesn't follow along certain sexism lines.
00:07:25
Speaker
And that was a conversation we had with some users who are autistic who were talking about the same thing where it's like a lot of the signs and symptoms are things of learning disabilities or a neurotypical behavior.
00:07:37
Speaker
But because no one explains it to them, there's no like medical health, there's no resource.
00:07:41
Speaker
The people that are like, you know, they're so vulnerable to these guys to just swoop in and give them like
00:07:46
Speaker
something that seems like it'll work if you're not neurotypical, if you're struggling with trauma or mental illness.
00:07:52
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:07:53
Speaker
And with boundaries in general, which is something that I think trauma creates a lot, and especially in women with the type of trauma that we are dealing with from, you know, perhaps like teenage years or something.
Roxy's Personal Journey and Realizations
00:08:06
Speaker
So can you talk a bit about how you managed to find yourself in the sex trait and, you know, what that whole experience was like in terms of the
00:08:19
Speaker
the Johns, and I guess like the day-to-day dynamic, because part of the reason why I feel like this is a bit of almost like, you know, trauma hunting, but part of the reason why is that I feel like in the dominant discourse, or when you speak to sex workers on Twitter, they try to portray the job as one thing,
00:08:37
Speaker
And when I've interacted with sex workers on Twitter, I can literally see the cognitive dissonance where, you know, they'll say, I get to set my own hours.
00:08:44
Speaker
I get to work for myself.
00:08:46
Speaker
You know, my clients respect me.
00:08:47
Speaker
And then when I look at their profile and then I scroll down several tweets, it's like, you know, them lamenting that a client has recently disrespected them in an awful, awful way.
00:08:56
Speaker
So from my interactions with sex workers, I do feel like they hold a lot of cognitive dissonance towards the job and what it involves and their feelings towards it.
00:09:06
Speaker
It'll be interesting to hear the perspective that you have as somebody that has actually been in the industry.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, what got me into it?
00:09:15
Speaker
Lifelong really, really bad boundaries and basically early sexual, like hypersexuality, basically, like, you know, as trauma abuse survivors can either go 180 or like the complete opposite end.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I turned out to be someone who stumbled way too early across porn and stuff like that.
00:09:34
Speaker
And then with the separation of my parents, I basically like, quote unquote, matured overnight.
00:09:39
Speaker
Like I was like,
00:09:40
Speaker
I need to be grown now.
00:09:41
Speaker
I'm grown now.
00:09:42
Speaker
And so I had my first time like very early, like, yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker
And that's kind of like how it went on.
00:09:47
Speaker
I had like long-term relationships.
00:09:49
Speaker
I had my first relationship from 13 to like 19, 20 on and off as well.
00:09:54
Speaker
Like it was very toxic, very, very toxic.
00:09:57
Speaker
Like, you know, I literally like thinking back and this is what I was, the sentiment that I was in when I was like 27, when I stumbled into it was like, look, I've always been like, you know, my life long, like so far I've been in long-term relationships.
00:10:09
Speaker
So, you know,
00:10:10
Speaker
this first one and then like a four year long and then like a short one and then I was like always with like boys that looked at me two minutes you know and I'm like oh my god he sees me because I felt invisible like my whole life and so whenever a man would look at me I'd be like yeah I want to be normal like you know with the trauma what to
00:10:31
Speaker
kept coming into my head was like, how am I not fucked from what happened to me as a child, right?
00:10:36
Speaker
I want to be normal.
00:10:37
Speaker
So I performed this heterosexuality.
00:10:40
Speaker
Whenever a man looked at me, I just went with him and I got very obsessive and stuff like that.
00:10:46
Speaker
My first relationships were like that.
00:10:48
Speaker
So I learned more and more and ended up basically with 27.
00:10:52
Speaker
I had stopped with the toxic relationships.
00:10:55
Speaker
I thought I was like,
00:10:56
Speaker
okay, you know, I've understood it now.
00:10:57
Speaker
I'm just fucking around with narcissists.
00:11:00
Speaker
That's not it.
00:11:01
Speaker
Maybe, you know, I'll do this like, you know, kinky stuff now and like, kind of like do what I didn't do in my teenage years as they were all like dating and stuff like that.
00:11:09
Speaker
And I was in Brighton, obviously.
00:11:10
Speaker
So what grew with me was Brighton.
00:11:13
Speaker
I have to, you know, just say, so I actually left.
00:11:16
Speaker
Sorry, I'm American over here.
00:11:18
Speaker
Sorry.
00:11:18
Speaker
What is that?
00:11:20
Speaker
Oh yeah, Brighton, the progressive flag-waving kink and queer scene.
00:11:27
Speaker
Place in the UK, yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
Place in the UK, yeah.
00:11:31
Speaker
It's by the sea, it's in the south, but yeah, like Roxy said, it's quite progressive, quite quirky, basically almost like a town of misfits that
00:11:42
Speaker
is accepting of anyone and everyone like even the infrastructure and housing is just quirky and just you know looks out of place but it works down in Brighton like you know you'll see people walking around with like pink hair or like you know so it's basically European San Francisco the American or the yeah but probably say a lot more like misfity is Brighton but yeah that's that's along similar lines yeah
00:12:08
Speaker
So, okay.
00:12:08
Speaker
So question.
00:12:09
Speaker
So yeah, just talking about your relationship.
00:12:11
Speaker
So I wanted to point this out because this is something that a lot of women trauma or not have fallen into is like the performative femininity because you want that sense of normalcy.
00:12:20
Speaker
I feel like that's a trap that so many women fall into trauma or not.
00:12:24
Speaker
but especially girls who've experienced trauma because you feel like, oh, I want to have this relationship.
00:12:28
Speaker
I want to paint this picture perfect family.
00:12:31
Speaker
But the way that a lot of times the messages that women get, it's so much about performing femininity and not understanding how to vet men properly so that you are being safe, right?
00:12:42
Speaker
Or you're picking the type of guys who will be safe for you if you want to have a relationship.
00:12:47
Speaker
So I think that's a very important thing because I think that's, it's frustrating because you think like feminism would more or less like focus on that.
00:12:53
Speaker
But so much of it has become about like, are you performing the right type of femininity?
00:12:57
Speaker
And on the right, it's obviously like conservatism, but on the left, it's like this kind of, yeah, like weirdo kink stuff and calling that feminism and seeing that women are going to find empowerment through that rather than like focusing on like how to build healthy self-esteem and healthy relationships and vet men properly.
00:13:12
Speaker
So I just wanted to point that out because I think that would be helpful for
00:13:15
Speaker
I think that piece is so helpful for women who are experiencing trauma and like making those same types of logical, maybe missteps because of everything they're consuming from the media and their family, really, you know, about what they deserve and what their place is in the world.
00:13:30
Speaker
The interesting thing with all of my former abusive partners were that they were like, quote unquote, like artists and like, you know, kind of like, how would I call them?
00:13:40
Speaker
Like they're fucking... I'm assuming they're left wing and I think like more progressive, left wing, abstract, artsy types.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, but also like, you know, quote unquote, like, you know, not masculine, like, you know, more like soft boy, I would call them.
00:13:54
Speaker
You know, that was soft boy, soy boy.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, that was my trap.
00:13:59
Speaker
And I think what my opinion, you know, now that I've been through a lot, like, you know, obviously, and I've met way too many men.
00:14:07
Speaker
I think vetting boyfriends is really difficult because they all turned out to be fucking lunatics after a while.
00:14:14
Speaker
Like sometimes it took a couple of years, sometimes, you know, like the whole like abuse stuff.
00:14:20
Speaker
started at some point and it wasn't really predictable in many ways, I would say.
00:14:25
Speaker
But then again, with all the media, as you said, how can women actually learn to trust their guts when all they see and learn and consume and can learn about healthy boundaries or healthy ways to communicate?
00:14:39
Speaker
It definitely seems like, and I think this is purposeful, that it's just a way to split women politically in ways that benefit men, right?
00:14:45
Speaker
Because like, you know, you can feel like, oh, the men on my side are superior rather than understanding.
00:14:50
Speaker
Like, no, they're all kind of the same.
00:14:51
Speaker
Like they take different political sides and they have different ways that they present themselves.
00:14:57
Speaker
But at the end of the day, if you don't empower yourself as a woman or push back on certain things, like they'll try to exploit you.
00:15:02
Speaker
And it doesn't really have a political affiliation.
00:15:04
Speaker
I think it's a trap to think like, oh, because he has progressive values or because he's like artsy and open that he won't be a misogynist, abusive scrote.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
Like for me, again, sexual abuse experience really fucks you up and fucks everything up.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I only really come across like, you know, like really, really deeply understood it now, taking a lot of time for me to understand that, like performing all this stuff, like literally I was so fucked from the early stuff that I saw on the internet.
00:15:34
Speaker
And I was very...
00:15:36
Speaker
I was very sensitive.
00:15:37
Speaker
I'm a very sensitive woman.
00:15:39
Speaker
I'm really emotional and easily triggered, obviously.
00:15:42
Speaker
And obviously this pornography that I saw when I was maybe 12 or something in school from some boys on the screen, it obviously really twisted my mind a lot.
00:15:51
Speaker
And I obviously got into this...
00:15:55
Speaker
I was porn addicted, but I sought it out and I know exactly that's why I will speak on knowing that the content that I was seeking out way too early in my teenage years and stuff like that, that I knew this was bad.
00:16:08
Speaker
I knew it.
00:16:09
Speaker
I felt it.
00:16:10
Speaker
I knew when I watched it.
00:16:12
Speaker
I knew that this wasn't good or healthy, but I would still do it so perpetuate misogyny.
00:16:19
Speaker
I will also say that I always pictured myself in the male role.
00:16:23
Speaker
I was always like, in my head, I was like, no, that's not me, that person there, like the woman part.
00:16:30
Speaker
That was very early.
00:16:31
Speaker
And yeah, so I got into depravity.
00:16:35
Speaker
But through the lens of like, you know, it was becoming more and more normal in the mid-20s and stuff like, you know, my early womanhood and like my late teens, like in the early 2000s, it became more normal and more like, you know, kind of like edgy and cool and stuff.
00:16:50
Speaker
And as someone who never fit in,
00:16:52
Speaker
Never had like friends, like lots of friends or like I always lacked like depth in everything.
00:16:58
Speaker
I literally, yeah, I said yes to the depravity.
00:17:01
Speaker
And I admit that like that, you know, thinking back, I know that it's the shame that, you know, if you are ashamed of yourself already, then you involve yourself with something really
Shame and Exploitation Dynamics
00:17:12
Speaker
shameful.
00:17:12
Speaker
And it's like kind of like it's a self-harm, I guess, like psychological self-harm in a way that I was...
00:17:19
Speaker
I want to make sure that people don't feel like if they've done sex work that they have to be ashamed, you know, because I feel like ultimately like them Johns are the ones that should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
00:17:28
Speaker
Like it's an industry.
00:17:30
Speaker
How I always think of it as a parallel is like sometimes, especially if you're in an economically desperate situation or you're experiencing trauma, it's like,
00:17:38
Speaker
Some people, and like I know some guys, for example, who when they were younger, they were poor, they grew up in what would be the hood here in the States.
00:17:46
Speaker
We would call it like ghetto, like large high-rise apartments in inner cities.
00:17:50
Speaker
And I mean, they sold drugs.
00:17:51
Speaker
They did things like they hustled.
00:17:53
Speaker
They stole...
00:17:54
Speaker
And they did things that they had to do to survive.
00:17:57
Speaker
And they've gone on to go to college and become upstanding citizens.
00:18:01
Speaker
But if you looked at them a certain way, like, oh, I can't believe you're doing this or you're like this, and having society look down on them because they come from poverty and they're doing...
00:18:11
Speaker
essentially like a survival work, both because this is the only thing they know, it's the only thing they see, this is where they feel like they can fit in.
00:18:17
Speaker
I think it's important to understand that a lot of times people, especially if that's their economic outcome, if they feel they can be part of a community in that way, that it's a completely normal thing.
00:18:25
Speaker
And you're not hurting anybody, you just participated in a trade that was set up by men a long time ago to exploit women just like you, right?
00:18:35
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:18:35
Speaker
I was just talking about the shame of watching pornography.
00:18:38
Speaker
And I think everyone that watches pornography, actually, and especially the brutal ones, you know, that actually has swept in the internet, like, very early on in the early 2000s already.
00:18:49
Speaker
That's the pornography I'm talking about.
00:18:50
Speaker
And that's pornography that I was, you know, that I saw way too early.
00:18:54
Speaker
And that does something to you.
00:18:56
Speaker
And watching it, I know for myself, and I know that, you know, we call it, boys call it like the men call it the host, not clarity kind of thing.
00:19:06
Speaker
They know what they watch is abuse.
00:19:09
Speaker
And I knew that back then as well.
00:19:11
Speaker
But I was like detached from it.
00:19:12
Speaker
And when I watched it, I would just view it from the male angle.
00:19:15
Speaker
I'd be like, oh, yeah, I wish I was this man, like whatever.
00:19:18
Speaker
That's literally how I used to watch porn.
00:19:20
Speaker
And that was...
00:19:21
Speaker
how someone who grew up with shame around all of this topic, kind of like, you know, it is also a form of grooming and grooming in the form of like, looking at pornography and knowing what you're watching there is really brutal.
00:19:35
Speaker
And it must, you know, feel a certain way.
00:19:38
Speaker
But like, you just look at it detached.
00:19:40
Speaker
And you're like, that's
00:19:41
Speaker
kind of disgusting but also it turns me on like and it's really a weird thing it's a really really weird thing but again it's built from shame like I think it's the basis of it is shame when men and women watch it what it creates yeah that's true that's fair
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, again, I don't think there's any shame if you end up in the sex trade at all.
00:20:01
Speaker
But yeah, again, shame all the scrotes that experience and talk openly about the post-nud clarity in which they literally say that they have to close their computer really quickly because they know.
00:20:13
Speaker
They know.
00:20:13
Speaker
They know it's kuma behavior.
00:20:15
Speaker
They know.
00:20:17
Speaker
But yeah, so the sex trade was, you know, I watched porn early in my teens.
00:20:22
Speaker
So I knew what it was, you know.
00:20:25
Speaker
And yeah, coming back to the Brighton story and at the nudist beach in Brighton was where I met a photographer who I now understand is like a fucking coomer who made it to be a guy who he is a photographer and film person.
00:20:42
Speaker
Like he studied that and now he's like doing it on the side that he
00:20:46
Speaker
you know, offering his services to the industry.
00:20:48
Speaker
And he's been doing this for like 10 years.
00:20:50
Speaker
Met him in Brighton on the nudist beach where I was just there because I'm like a hippie and I just like to be, you know, free.
00:20:56
Speaker
What I didn't, yeah, it was just, we actually, yeah, we went there through a former raver friend and he had with him a model who was like five, six,
00:21:07
Speaker
six seven years younger than me like early 20s i was like 27 right and she had like a mercedes like all of the things she was like rich and stuff and she was in the trade she was a model glamour model is what she introduced herself and she flirted
Grooming and Manipulation Tactics
00:21:23
Speaker
with me like back then and i would call myself still bisexual so i was infatuated with her and she was like oh you're so sexy oh she's his bottom bitch
00:21:34
Speaker
with your alternative look.
00:21:36
Speaker
And she kind of like lured me and yeah, quote unquote, groomed me because she told me that I would make it like, you know, 50 quid an hour.
00:21:44
Speaker
That's how easy it is.
00:21:46
Speaker
And I've been doing this since I'm 18.
00:21:47
Speaker
And I look at me now, I'm really rich and I get lots of jobs and stuff like that.
00:21:52
Speaker
And you're always in control.
00:21:54
Speaker
I don't do any boy-girl.
00:21:56
Speaker
What she failed to tell me back then was that she was doing boy-girl, but in the form of prostitution, which she wouldn't be saying.
00:22:03
Speaker
She would just call it like photographer.
00:22:05
Speaker
She would call it like for private content.
00:22:07
Speaker
And then it was like, you know, I didn't know that.
00:22:10
Speaker
But she basically told me that only through like nude modeling and my own rules, like, you know, my own levels.
00:22:17
Speaker
Back then I was like, oh yeah, solo.
00:22:19
Speaker
I mean, if she says I'm pretty, like I never looked at myself like that.
00:22:23
Speaker
You know, I was a punk.
00:22:24
Speaker
I was a, you know, like I was always like a kind of freak.
00:22:27
Speaker
I always cut my own hair.
00:22:28
Speaker
I had a mullet back then.
00:22:29
Speaker
Like, you know, come on, you know.
00:22:32
Speaker
It really worked.
00:22:33
Speaker
And that's how she got me in.
00:22:35
Speaker
That's such a common technique.
00:22:36
Speaker
Like I said, it sounds like that photographer's bottom bitch.
00:22:39
Speaker
They have a word for it.
00:22:40
Speaker
It's called bottom bitch.
00:22:41
Speaker
It's a girl that is used as like the anchor of the sex trafficking, the hook.
00:22:46
Speaker
Because like in most situations, especially for women, like if you don't have a woman there to like disarm the situation that a woman might clock it as exploitative immediately.
00:22:56
Speaker
Whereas like when you have a woman come in and like basically market the sex trade to other women, you're more likely to trust her.
00:23:03
Speaker
And this is why, again, the sex workers work thing is so, it's just so icky because there was a video recently that was released of Andrew Tate.
00:23:11
Speaker
And he's obviously in a Romanian prison right now, but his like his business plan was exactly that.
00:23:15
Speaker
And he said it in a very like misogynist, he didn't sugarcoat his words at all, where he basically said,
00:23:21
Speaker
The first his bottom bitch, the first girl he got in his sex, his webcam sex trade organization was his girlfriend, his girlfriend who he'd had this like, you know, off and on abusive relationship with.
00:23:31
Speaker
And then he said, Oh, I can't get other girls to camp for me if I just go hook them like, like, we have to find other women and like these bitches got to be in love with me.
00:23:39
Speaker
And then like, we can make money off of them, right?
00:23:41
Speaker
So like they incentivize the bottom bitch to stay and groom other girls because they say that like, she's making money off recruiting girls for him.
00:23:48
Speaker
And then like, she's the anchor in the hook.
00:23:50
Speaker
What you're saying is this is such a common tactic that it's like, I mean, it's one of many ways that women get groomed into the sex trade.
00:23:56
Speaker
And I wanted to point it out because I feel like whenever we talk about sex work is work, when you talk about actually the mechanisms about how women are groomed into this profession, there's just nothing feminist about it.
00:24:08
Speaker
And if you're like, if you're disgusted with Andrew Tate and you still think sex workers work, you're going to have to ask yourself why.
00:24:14
Speaker
Because technically, if you think this is a job, like this is just the recruitment arm of a legitimate job, right?
00:24:19
Speaker
Like, why are you disgusted at like someone like Andrew Tate who says the truth about how the sex trade is?
00:24:25
Speaker
Like he doesn't couch it in flowery words or try to make it look nice.
00:24:28
Speaker
He's just like, it's a capitalist industry.
00:24:30
Speaker
And he uses women to recruit other women who they intimidate with fear and shame.
00:24:35
Speaker
And then he makes money off of that.
00:24:37
Speaker
And there's always these type of characters.
00:24:38
Speaker
There's always the man behind the entire operation and the woman who's like his right-hand woman that helps to groom other girls.
00:24:45
Speaker
They make bank off grooming other girls into the profession.
00:24:48
Speaker
And that is, it's ultimately very capitalist.
00:24:51
Speaker
And that's why I kind of feel like it's delusional to think it can ever be female friendly because, you know, it's really hard for labor to exert power, especially if they're traumatized labor or poor labor.
00:25:02
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:25:03
Speaker
What I have to say to this is she only really knew him just then.
00:25:07
Speaker
So the thing that the situation that we have now or generally women who are in the sex trade, and I've done it too, is that you will always sell your job as like really cool, especially if you actually have money.
00:25:21
Speaker
So once you are in the sex trade, it's really difficult to be like, this is actually what I do.
00:25:27
Speaker
Like, you know, she obviously could only tell me what she sounded best.
00:25:31
Speaker
When I asked her about what she was doing and how she set up her business, she obviously wouldn't tell me this very important detail, for example.
00:25:39
Speaker
So the grooming already happens because women are so cognitively dissonant when they are in the trade that it doesn't even have to be that they are, quote unquote, like bottom bitches connected to someone, but they just do it themselves because they
00:25:55
Speaker
just to legitimize what they do.
00:25:57
Speaker
And actually, because sex work is work, and here I am, you know, I'm driving this fence, like, isn't that fucking class?
00:26:04
Speaker
Like, even though I might have been groomed into the sex trade before I was 18, because this, you know, I'm not going to go too much into detail, but like, there was a story, and she also has like some...
00:26:16
Speaker
trauma happened to her.
00:26:17
Speaker
So again, once you are in the trade, you will just pretend everything is fine.
00:26:23
Speaker
And this is actually really important.
00:26:25
Speaker
The sex trade, this is the realization that I had that got me out, is that the sex trade is literally like a narcissist abusive boyfriend.
00:26:36
Speaker
It starts with grooming
00:26:38
Speaker
AKA future faking, like, you know, hey, young newcomer, like, you can do all these things, like, look at you, look at you, and there's lots of cash for you like this, if you do webcamming and all this kind of stuff.
00:26:50
Speaker
And then whenever something bad happens to you, you just like, you know, you compartmentalize, you're like, oh, you know, that's just one thing.
00:26:58
Speaker
I'll just do that and that, you know, I'll just stop working with these people or whatever.
00:27:03
Speaker
Like whenever you talk to the outside world, you will always just tell them everything's fine.
00:27:08
Speaker
You know, like might have had like a bad day, but it's fine.
00:27:12
Speaker
It's like a toxic relationship, which is really hard to get out.
00:27:16
Speaker
So that's the kind of structures that I find kept me in long-term relationships as well as the sex trade.
00:27:23
Speaker
Because, you know, there's also the hope of like, you know, if it doesn't really work out or it's been years and you're not really making lunch, maybe there is the day.
00:27:31
Speaker
The day will come.
00:27:32
Speaker
The day will come if I keep working, if I keep shifting and perhaps like, you know, changing the niches
Escape and Recovery
00:27:38
Speaker
or...
00:27:38
Speaker
cut my hair or change my boobs or maybe then, you know, there's the zero sum cost game.
00:27:44
Speaker
It's not what it's called.
00:27:45
Speaker
Like, you know, once you're in, you're like, he can't be that bad.
00:27:48
Speaker
I couldn't have chosen the wrong one.
00:27:50
Speaker
This can't be happening to me.
00:27:52
Speaker
You know, that's the pattern.
00:27:53
Speaker
That's the same pattern.
00:27:55
Speaker
I think that's such a powerful analogy when you compare sex work to being in an abusive relationship because it's exactly that and it follows the exact same steps as well.
00:28:07
Speaker
And it also contextualises why it's so difficult for women to leave.
00:28:12
Speaker
So on that note, you know, like how did you manage to extract yourself from the industry?
00:28:17
Speaker
By realizing that I was in the worst of all of the toxic relationships that I've ever been in with what I would now call a porn chaser, porn addicted coomer, like literally the worst of all of the ones like I've
00:28:35
Speaker
never ever met anyone so as depraved as this man and he loverboyed me over twitter while i was actually having like meltdown as you were mentioning earlier like as i had every now and then like fuck all of you lurkers on my twitter you know i had like 130k you know on my porn twitter because i was like doing these like retweet groups now i can't go into the details of like how fucked up the whole thing is online and
00:29:04
Speaker
I would love to hear, actually, because I think it's important to the mechanism.
00:29:07
Speaker
So, okay, so when you say lover boy, you mean like he tried to align himself?
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, like I had this meltdown.
00:29:13
Speaker
I was like, oh my god, I hate all of you.
00:29:14
Speaker
Like, what the fuck?
00:29:15
Speaker
And I'm not making any money.
00:29:16
Speaker
And like, it was 2019.
00:29:18
Speaker
And like, the HIV porn ban was just like, across the globe, like all industries have to stop because of...
00:29:25
Speaker
I had this one guy, I forgot his name, like this fucking disgusting ass American porn man.
00:29:31
Speaker
And I had this moment of like, oh my God, this whole, like what the fuck?
00:29:35
Speaker
And all the men that I've had met up until that point, it was all blue.
00:29:39
Speaker
And basically he came into my DMs and I was like, hey, you're really cute.
00:29:43
Speaker
And like, you're very cute.
00:29:45
Speaker
And again, you know, you can tell me like, as I said, like I got into relationships because men were like literally talking to me or and it didn't look too bad.
00:29:53
Speaker
Like, you know, and that's what he did.
00:29:55
Speaker
And very low standards.
00:29:56
Speaker
Like, you know, he asked if he should bring some food for first like a date.
00:30:01
Speaker
And I was like, oh, my God, he's so like, you know, like lowest of the expectations.
00:30:06
Speaker
Anyway, yeah.
00:30:06
Speaker
So I was with him for like one and a half years.
00:30:08
Speaker
In that time, he gave me STIs.
00:30:11
Speaker
Like, I was obviously in the industry.
00:30:13
Speaker
I was still like shooting with people.
00:30:15
Speaker
And he was like starting to say stuff like, you know, you should only shoot with me.
00:30:19
Speaker
But I want to shoot with women because and he was like, basically like getting into the industry through me.
00:30:25
Speaker
I was already like a quote unquote, big name, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:30:28
Speaker
he asked me for lots of money all the time and I trusted him and I you know he also obviously had a baby mama there was like really horrible stuff that happened like you know he's some black Jamaican guy like oh my gosh yeah no comment I'm saying nothing
00:30:48
Speaker
He was a yardie.
00:30:49
Speaker
Like he was literally like out of jail, like, you know, the whole thing.
00:30:53
Speaker
And I literally believe the whole like, oh yeah, I've changed.
00:30:56
Speaker
Jamaican men will have like three families.
00:30:58
Speaker
Like, I live like two parts of each other.
00:31:01
Speaker
Honestly, oh my God.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's actually quite a common story from sex workers where they'll be with a guy who doesn't like their line of work, but who is essentially funded by the sex worker's lifestyle.
00:31:15
Speaker
And they'll just be leeching off them.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, men are capitalists, right?
00:31:20
Speaker
They see that and like, damn, she's probably making a lot of money.
00:31:22
Speaker
I bet I can get into this trade by making her my girlfriend.
00:31:25
Speaker
And then slowly coercing you to shoot with him and making money off your back, right?
00:31:31
Speaker
That's the crazy thing about men.
00:31:33
Speaker
It's like they can see the capitalist opportunity.
00:31:36
Speaker
The sad part is I think they figure because so many of these women are already doing sex in the first place that they're easily manipulated.
00:31:42
Speaker
A guy who's predatory is going to see that and see cash dollars.
00:31:46
Speaker
I bet...
00:31:47
Speaker
When he saw him the first time, there was like dollar signs coming out of his eyeballs.
00:31:54
Speaker
That's how a lot of them are.
00:31:57
Speaker
So question, just to clarify.
00:31:58
Speaker
So you did both pornography and also did you do full service sex work, like private sex work?
00:32:04
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:32:04
Speaker
So like, you know, we skipped the whole part, actually.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:08
Speaker
I started off with modeling, you know, low levels, like with high levels, you know, anyway.
00:32:13
Speaker
So I started off with like nude and D'Souza and femdom from the beginning and then webcamming on adult work.
00:32:22
Speaker
Also kind of early on because I've understood that you don't have work every day.
00:32:28
Speaker
Like, you know, you don't just magically get shit everywhere.
00:32:31
Speaker
Like,
00:32:32
Speaker
Twitter profile, then adult modeling profile, then webcaming profile, and then soon came OnlyFans because everyone was raving about it.
00:32:41
Speaker
It was like end 2017, start of 2018.
00:32:45
Speaker
And then in 2018, I was getting more and more DMs because that's what they do.
00:32:52
Speaker
do and this is literally the industry this is how you lose your boundaries you're like already stepping into the depravity you're on twitter there's like all these hashtags like you can see all the fucking insane shit and there is either producers or big name performers male usually coming into your dms being like oh hey
00:33:14
Speaker
Like, new here, you're so cute, whatever.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what happened pretty early.
00:33:20
Speaker
I understood that with my look, which was, you know, as I said, alternative.
00:33:24
Speaker
With the look of an alternative, you usually get submissive and BDSM stuff offered as modeling jobs, you know, or as porn or soft porn or whatever.
00:33:36
Speaker
There was no interest in...
00:33:37
Speaker
alt girls portraying anything else so always like you know chains and all this kind of stuff i did more and more of that then like you know only soft glamorous not glamorous but like uh you know bdsm type of stuff but never really like just posing yeah and then there was the mainstream people 2018 like i didn't have much money like it
00:33:59
Speaker
wasn't really working for me.
00:34:01
Speaker
I wasn't booked as much.
00:34:02
Speaker
And then there was men producers coming in and being like, yeah, do you want to shoot for us?
00:34:08
Speaker
And I always had this modeling friend, you know, the woman that got me in and she was always there and she would like verify these people because she'd been in the industry and she'd be like, you know, reassuring me if I should shoot with them or not.
00:34:21
Speaker
And so I should
00:34:22
Speaker
shoot in a shot in total like in 2018 and probably until like 2019 i don't really know because i dissociated half of the time i shot i think maybe like 10 scenes maybe like boy girl quote unquote you know that's penis and vagina and you get like 300 to 315 quid for it wait okay so question so they didn't even like share the profits with you they gave you a flat rate
00:34:47
Speaker
you get 350 for, and it doesn't matter how long the shooting day is, and obviously you get 350 after the guy has come on your face, and you don't know these men before, sometimes a lot, like, I started off with, like, having an age limit, because I'm an abuse survivor, I can't do, like, old men, like, that's really bad, because it was my granddad, so I
00:35:08
Speaker
I started off with like, you know, I have my limits, like, please respect them.
00:35:12
Speaker
But like, it turned out like, they're just all old men, like halfway, like they're all over 45 or something like disgusting.
00:35:19
Speaker
But you know, once you rock up at a shoot, you know, it's really difficult.
00:35:23
Speaker
And that's what I want to say about like,
00:35:25
Speaker
oh yeah you knew what you were gonna get yourself into no you don't fucking ever know what you're getting yourself into because you roll up there you might have had like some quote-unquote professional conversation via email because you don't do that on the phone you're like very you know here's my fees here's my thing blah blah blah and yeah that's the details for the shoot come there blah so
00:35:45
Speaker
You rock up with your fucking stupid suitcase with your stupid porn clothes and your fucking high heels and you bring as much as you can because you never know what you're going to get or what you have to wear or whatever and you have to do your own makeup and then you do the whole still photography which takes sometimes like an hour or two or something and you meet this guy and you literally just like
00:36:06
Speaker
shoot.
00:36:07
Speaker
Sometimes you get like, I'll say, hey, well, I'm taking a shower now.
00:36:11
Speaker
So we are both like really fresh.
00:36:12
Speaker
Sometimes they just like, well, we'll shoot now.
00:36:15
Speaker
And like, you know, as someone who doesn't have boundaries, you don't know how to act.
00:36:19
Speaker
Like, you know, everyone's like, yeah, be professional.
00:36:21
Speaker
What is professional?
00:36:22
Speaker
Like, what is the way to say I'm uncomfortable with that?
00:36:26
Speaker
Wash your spank ass before you fuck me.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, and like their bosses, like they've hired you.
00:36:33
Speaker
So like, how do you say anything, you know?
00:36:36
Speaker
And it's the same with what happens to you then when you get like treated like shit while on camera, because you have to be focused on the camera all the time.
00:36:43
Speaker
Like, you know, because you're always in the center and that's how they fuck you over.
00:36:46
Speaker
Like the whole breaking a woman in pornography happens because whilst you are in this ordeal of what's happening to you, you have to concentrate constantly on how you look and what your body, like how you are.
00:36:58
Speaker
Standing like how you look like from the side or whatever, there's constantly people in your face.
00:37:03
Speaker
I've been only on like filthy shoots, like quote unquote, like, you know, there are big sites, but there's only one other person than the men there.
00:37:12
Speaker
And so...
00:37:14
Speaker
It's really hard to snap out of something like that.
00:37:17
Speaker
Easy for them to coerce them too.
00:37:19
Speaker
So that was something very similar.
00:37:20
Speaker
I mean, one of the most infamous American porn stars is a woman named Lana Rhodes.
00:37:25
Speaker
And very similar story to you.
00:37:28
Speaker
And she ended up in the porn industry and she talked about all the time how they would tell her one thing when she was like, you know, interviewing for the job to come shoot porn.
00:37:36
Speaker
And then she'd get there and it'd be a completely different story.
00:37:39
Speaker
And they basically just force her coerce her in it, like stuff like making her eat vomit, like stuff like that.
00:37:43
Speaker
Like, it's just really like they want to do these disgusting things to these girls, but they know that you would never do it if they disclose it up front.
00:37:49
Speaker
So they're counting on the fact that they can intimidate you in the moment.
00:37:52
Speaker
So like, that's all that's deliberate.
00:37:54
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:37:56
Speaker
And I think part of the appeal for these producers, especially just these men involved in the industry, is knowing that the woman wouldn't want to do it, but she has to do it anyway.
00:38:06
Speaker
And I think this is part of, you know, when people talk about Johns especially, it's weird how they say things like, oh, they're really respectful.
00:38:17
Speaker
You know, some of these lefty Johns will say, like, I'm hiring a sex worker.
00:38:21
Speaker
I'm really respectful of women.
00:38:22
Speaker
When actually a lot of Johns will say, you know, part of the thrill comes in coercing or getting a woman to do something that they know she doesn't want to do, but she does it anyway just to make them
Consent and Exploitation in the Industry
00:38:34
Speaker
happy.
00:38:34
Speaker
So the lack of consent is the appeal for them.
00:38:37
Speaker
And this is why things like, you know, sex work and the porn industry can never truly be ethical because the industry thrives off the lack of consent.
00:38:46
Speaker
That's what, you know, gets a lot of these men off.
00:38:49
Speaker
They know the woman is in pain.
00:38:50
Speaker
They know that the woman didn't consent.
00:38:53
Speaker
but they just don't care.
00:38:54
Speaker
And actually that aspect of the industry is what's most appealing to them.
00:38:59
Speaker
If we look at the BDSM industry, which will, which was a bit, Roxy, because I know you have experience in that as well, is that there's that Madonna Hall complex.
00:39:07
Speaker
I'm not sure if you came across it where, you know, doms would be like,
00:39:12
Speaker
for example, subs who would do whatever they wanted, they actually looked down on those women.
00:39:17
Speaker
And, you know, some, I never got this comment myself, but other submissives that I came across, they would say like, because, you know, like, oh, like my dom said he can never do what he does with me to his wife because he likes and respects her too much.
00:39:31
Speaker
because he's compartmentalised that sub as being, I guess, part of BDSM as well, is that pushing of boundaries.
00:39:39
Speaker
He's compartmentalised her as being somebody who is willing to compromise her boundaries.
00:39:44
Speaker
And what's even more fucked up is that he then looks down on her for it, even though that's what he wanted.
00:39:50
Speaker
Honestly, when it comes to BDSM and the sex industry, the male psyche is just incredibly fucked up.
00:39:56
Speaker
And I'm not sure that many women realise that, just how fucked it really is.
00:40:01
Speaker
So one thing that you mentioned was about how you only got about $350... Pounds.
00:40:05
Speaker
I think you said 350 pounds.
00:40:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:09
Speaker
So euros.
00:40:10
Speaker
I don't know.
00:40:10
Speaker
I'm trying to do the conversion rate in my head to what it is in the US.
00:40:13
Speaker
But somewhere probably around $400 American.
00:40:17
Speaker
But these guys... So how do they exhibit these films?
00:40:19
Speaker
So I'm assuming... Obviously, they made a lot of money probably off of your film.
00:40:22
Speaker
So they give you a flat rate for the day.
00:40:25
Speaker
And then who owns the video?
00:40:26
Speaker
Do you have any ownership of the video?
00:40:27
Speaker
Are the guys on the video?
00:40:28
Speaker
They can distribute it
00:40:29
Speaker
No.
00:40:30
Speaker
Wow.
00:40:31
Speaker
Okay, so important about the coercion aspect as well, just before.
00:40:35
Speaker
In the porn scene, you set the rate before.
00:40:38
Speaker
They know with newcomers that a lot of them don't actually know how much to ask for.
00:40:43
Speaker
So they will ask you.
00:40:44
Speaker
They will be like, hey, what's your rate?
00:40:46
Speaker
A lot of newcomers think like 150 is maybe like an hour or whatever and they'll take it.
00:40:51
Speaker
You know, that's really, really important.
00:40:53
Speaker
I had this model friend who was in the industry for a long time.
00:40:57
Speaker
So she told me I could ask for way more than you now if I would start boy girl, which she didn't do officially then.
00:41:04
Speaker
But she told me when I asked her, oh yeah, like a newcomer rate is 350.
00:41:09
Speaker
So that's what I went for.
00:41:10
Speaker
I did always do the haggling thing.
00:41:12
Speaker
I always started off with like, especially if they're big name companies, I'd be like, oh, I'd ask for like 400 and they'd be like, nah, flat out.
00:41:19
Speaker
No, our general rate is 350.
00:41:21
Speaker
That's what all models get.
00:41:23
Speaker
And that's you either take it or you don't.
00:41:25
Speaker
So, and very important, obviously, we get paid after the money shot.
00:41:29
Speaker
Like you will endure everything because you know, you will get it after the money shot.
00:41:36
Speaker
And in obviously extreme BDSM abuse situations,
00:41:39
Speaker
pornography, you will only get it after you film the end bit where you are asked if you were under the influence and if you liked everything that was done to you and which you will obviously say yes to because otherwise you don't get your fucking money.
00:41:55
Speaker
Wow.
00:41:56
Speaker
They won't pay you unless you lie.
00:41:58
Speaker
I did one really bad scene in which I had to split it in half.
00:42:02
Speaker
I couldn't keep filming after hours and hours.
00:42:06
Speaker
I actually shat myself.
00:42:08
Speaker
I will just say that.
00:42:10
Speaker
He treated me so badly.
00:42:12
Speaker
From the deep throating, from me being really nervous and
00:42:16
Speaker
not eating properly before from the deep throating, you know, because you have to gag so much.
00:42:21
Speaker
Like my whole like intestinal system, like everything was really like, you know, when you have like, it's really bad.
00:42:26
Speaker
So I actually had diarrhea.
00:42:28
Speaker
I like, and then they were like, yeah, well, that's really bad.
00:42:31
Speaker
I was crying.
00:42:31
Speaker
I was a really like, I thought it was the worst.
00:42:33
Speaker
day of my whole life and they were like yeah well I was actually apologizing I was apologizing like this only happened because it was the roughest ever it was rape like actual like fucking rape and I like literally and then I had to come back the next day because that's when I got my money and they didn't pay me more or anything I got 350 after we had to I had to travel there again
00:42:58
Speaker
lose money because I had to pay that second trip on my own and still got only 350 quid.
00:43:03
Speaker
They still put that clip online.
00:43:05
Speaker
And yes, I had to film the disclaimer at the end where I said, oh, this was a great shoot.
00:43:10
Speaker
Would love to come back.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:12
Speaker
That's so disturbing that they tie your payment as a condition of you pretending like you consented to everything.
00:43:18
Speaker
That's such trash.
00:43:20
Speaker
And I think if there was any way to attack the sex industry to force some kind of change, I would almost make that like some kind of legal requirement.
00:43:28
Speaker
Like you get paid whether or not you do that, like, quote unquote, disclaimer, that's trash.
00:43:32
Speaker
So the other question is, okay, so they have ownership of the video.
00:43:35
Speaker
So then how do they distribute it?
00:43:36
Speaker
Because a lot of people were saying, so there's some women that are like, oh, you know, they've accumulated enough followers and OnlyFans.
00:43:42
Speaker
Like they do these like shoots because then they make money on their OnlyFans.
00:43:45
Speaker
But do these guys keep the video and then they make money on their platform and then you only get the flat rate?
00:43:51
Speaker
No, I mean, women do stuff with mainstream companies because that's how they get their name up and that's how they get more exposure.
00:43:58
Speaker
That's the reason.
00:43:59
Speaker
Unless you shoot really extreme stuff.
00:44:02
Speaker
The only way that you can make money in pornography these days, if you do triple anal in the Czech Republic, if you go to Prague, or if you do the really hardcore stuff.
00:44:14
Speaker
I only did just boy-girl.
00:44:16
Speaker
If you do boy-girl, then it's a blowjob, three positions, and then the money shot, more or less.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, so we were talking about this with Gail Dines and then also from our independent research that right around the pandemic, so like 2019, 2020, when a lot of women started signing up for OnlyFans and finding out like the average earnings was something like $180 a month.
Economic Realities of OnlyFans
00:44:37
Speaker
And a lot of it had to do with like oversaturation of the market and that the women who tend to make a lot of money on OnlyFans are the women who came from the mainstream porn industry who had name recognition.
00:44:47
Speaker
But obviously the mainstream porn industry is crazy exploitative.
00:44:51
Speaker
So like meaning they didn't get paid.
00:44:53
Speaker
Like Lana Rhodes, for example, she said like she did like a lot of films and she said she didn't even crack six figures.
00:44:58
Speaker
And I think she did like 70 films over the course of a year.
00:45:01
Speaker
Like she was doing them like twice a week and didn't even crack like six figures like from the porn industry, like the mainstream porn industry.
00:45:09
Speaker
But because she did so many films, eventually when she did her own OnlyFans, she was then able to make a lot more money in OnlyFans because she had done so much basically free work.
00:45:18
Speaker
almost like damn near free work for the mainstream porn industry.
00:45:20
Speaker
So that's interesting because that's the lie of OnlyFans, right?
00:45:23
Speaker
A lot of them are like, oh, and you know, like, and obviously OnlyFans gives a percentage of earnings to people who get other people to sign up for OnlyFans.
00:45:31
Speaker
So a lot of the lie of OnlyFans up until now has been that like, oh, yeah, the independence aspect of it.
00:45:37
Speaker
But the truth of the matter is like the way that these people are getting exposure is either...
00:45:41
Speaker
the mainstream porn industry, or they do like, or like the New York Post, at least I don't know what the equivalent is in Germany, but like the New York Post or the Guardian will like make an article about like, oh, this teacher decided to quit her job as a teacher to become a porn.
00:45:54
Speaker
And so like, it's basically like a subtle advertisement for a person's OnlyFans.
00:45:58
Speaker
I mean, it's like any type of content creation, really.
00:46:01
Speaker
I mean, there's going to be people that make a lot of money at it and stuff, but most people won't.
00:46:05
Speaker
And then in order to get exposure, you have to go through a channel where people will recognize you.
00:46:10
Speaker
So that's interesting.
00:46:11
Speaker
But if you go that way, they're going to force you to do really fucked up things for a little bit of money.
00:46:16
Speaker
And obviously, I mean, that's what I did.
00:46:18
Speaker
So even though I was very determined, I was like, I'm never going to be a sub.
00:46:23
Speaker
I did one sub scene, but I did webcamming, I did domination all the time through, but the odd session.
00:46:30
Speaker
But then there's these few big
00:46:33
Speaker
UK, like, you know, it's really small and like there's not much happening, but I shot with the, you know, on the lower side, like on the lower end, there is some like, quote unquote, higher, bigger production, I guess.
00:46:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:45
Speaker
Not just Gonzo and like, fucking GoPro cameras, but like proper cameras and maybe a makeup artist.
00:46:52
Speaker
But I shot like with the lower end spectrum people and I was hoping for more exposure.
00:46:58
Speaker
Like I was like, okay, if my name gets out, blah, blah, blah.
00:47:00
Speaker
Anyway,
00:47:01
Speaker
Yeah, so I did the mainstream time and during that time I had an OnlyFans as well, like already from 18 onwards.
00:47:07
Speaker
But yeah, I'm a really good example.
00:47:10
Speaker
I had lots of lurkers from this exposure on my Twitter then, like they found me on Pornhub or whatever from these scenes, but they wouldn't sign up to my fucking OnlyFans, which I had back then.
00:47:21
Speaker
I still had at the beginning...
00:47:23
Speaker
Like I was one of the first few, like the, yeah, the payout like numbers were only like maybe like thousands or something.
00:47:29
Speaker
Like there weren't many people in there yet, but yeah, mainly like these professional porn stars, whatever.
00:47:35
Speaker
And because I was then like, you know, I'm a porn star.
00:47:37
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, you know, it probably is going to work.
00:47:40
Speaker
But yeah, I had my price at like 10 or 12 or like $15 and I
00:47:46
Speaker
no one was coming, no one was coming.
00:47:48
Speaker
It was really difficult.
00:47:50
Speaker
And so I, with my kind of edgy, weird look, whatever, I had to do more nude on Twitter, more showing something.
00:48:00
Speaker
It would go on Reddit as well, as you have.
00:48:03
Speaker
You have to do that because OnlyFans doesn't give you exposure themselves.
00:48:07
Speaker
You have to just put your link everywhere.
00:48:09
Speaker
I only used Reddit and Twitter for advertisement.
00:48:12
Speaker
But yeah, it didn't really work.
00:48:14
Speaker
And for me, I only really got...
00:48:16
Speaker
money on OnlyFans in 2020.
00:48:18
Speaker
But that was because I was in the industry for a longer
Healing and Future Plans
00:48:21
Speaker
time.
00:48:21
Speaker
Then I had lots of connections and I had like connections to, and these connections that kept me in this industry were these like super rich femdoms.
00:48:29
Speaker
Like they were fucking, I went to femdom balls.
00:48:32
Speaker
Like in London, there's this like femdom ball is a like worldwide event.
00:48:36
Speaker
All the mistresses come like it's insane.
00:48:38
Speaker
Like, and I was just there with my, you know, I will admit like, you know, I was never into fashion and shit like that.
00:48:44
Speaker
You know, I just bought secondhand shit.
00:48:46
Speaker
like some fucking high heels whatever I saw some that looked kind of like alright we can work with that whatever all of my outfits I bought like second hand shit and they were all with their like super expensive like latex stuff that's like you know it was also mad like you know but anyway I had a friend who I met she was in New York
00:49:03
Speaker
dominatrix and she got me into like retweet groups and like she gave me tips and she got me in connection with assistants and that is basically where we are now is that by the time that only fans boomed it was already the case that most of the accounts that are really high earners like you know they're not run by the people themselves like you know they have some fucking assistant
00:49:27
Speaker
They do everything.
00:49:29
Speaker
They literally do everything.
00:49:31
Speaker
And also by the time the market was so over flooded and it became like really homogenized and every single creator, every single woman started using daddy as the like term for like everywhere.
00:49:46
Speaker
Like, you know, when, hey, daddy, hey, daddy, everywhere.
00:49:49
Speaker
Like it didn't fucking.
00:49:51
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:49:53
Speaker
So the irony is like, and Lana Rhodes has talked about this too, is that like all of this work and it's not even that well paid.
00:50:00
Speaker
In fact, you probably could make as much money like posting cat videos on YouTube.
00:50:04
Speaker
Cause she even talked about how like the thing about it is like, if you do porn, cause you're essentially an influencer, right?
00:50:10
Speaker
It's really even hard to like get sponsorships like going that way.
00:50:13
Speaker
So like a lot of porn stars like that tried to leave the industry, just tried to become like legit influencers so they could actually get brand deals.
00:50:20
Speaker
So it's like because of the oversaturation in the market of porn, and then you can't even really get brand deals.
00:50:26
Speaker
And all of the major studios don't pay much like the studios that you would have to go to get your name out of there.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like it's just like a complete racket at this point.
00:50:34
Speaker
And that you're better off, even if you're like financially desperate and need money right away, you're actually better off like posting cat videos or like trying to be like a mainstream influencer so that you can potentially get like even just get like a sponsorship link or something where like if somebody uses your link code,
00:50:50
Speaker
than trying to do porn.
00:50:52
Speaker
Because it's like, once you're in that loop, unless you're one of the lucky ones that gets like, you know, who gets like a huge audience, and that's probably not going to happen until you do a ton of legitimate, until you do a lot of work in the mainstream porn industry, like in the former porn industry, then you're going to be underpriced for a very, very long time.
00:51:09
Speaker
You know, obviously, we're at your body.
00:51:11
Speaker
And then kind of, you're gonna have so many movies out there to be really, really hard for you to leave the industry.
00:51:16
Speaker
So I want to say that because I know so many women are getting into like the survival sex work game.
00:51:21
Speaker
But like truthfully, like it's at the point where it doesn't even make economic sense to do porn anymore.
00:51:26
Speaker
Right?
00:51:26
Speaker
Like it's not even to make you as much money as if you just did like, I mean, I saw a YouTube channel that has a lot of views about a girl who was talking about this living out of her car, like she was actually homeless, like just even like being honest about your situation or whatever's gone with you, like can get you just as much like views and sponsorships and attention than like trying to do sex work.
00:51:45
Speaker
So
00:51:45
Speaker
Just if you're in a position right now where you're considering getting to the industry, like I'm just trying to do the dollars and cents aspect of it that like just from speaking to you and like now looking at a lot of these other people, it doesn't even make economic sense anymore.
00:51:56
Speaker
And not to mention, it could be really tough to get out of the industry and or it could penalize, you know, to try to go legit, it could penalize you.
00:52:02
Speaker
So just be aware of that for anybody who might be considering it.
00:52:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:52:05
Speaker
I would definitely say that, as I said, once you get into the industry, it's really hard to get out for the reasons that you've already kind of stigmatized yourself.
00:52:15
Speaker
And I want to just say that really clearly.
00:52:18
Speaker
The stigma will never go.
00:52:21
Speaker
As much as you try to normalize, quote unquote, sex work, the men will always treat you like a whore.
00:52:27
Speaker
It doesn't fucking change.
00:52:29
Speaker
It will never change.
00:52:31
Speaker
It's the worst thing that you will experience when you get into this industry because they treat you like fucking shit and crossing your boundaries.
00:52:40
Speaker
Like, you know, if you're offering a certain type of content or whatever, like they will deliberately go and tell you the shit that you don't want to hear.
00:52:49
Speaker
And no one prepares you for that.
00:52:51
Speaker
for the depravity that men are going through or willing to go through when trying to literally fuck with you when you are an online prostitute.
00:53:01
Speaker
And so illegal stuff, things that start with P, things that start with beast,
00:53:07
Speaker
like things about their children like oh yeah very very important the shaming of their partners like you know oh yeah my ugly wife is lying next to me but i'm talking to you you know and this is a really common thing so far so that it's become a whole genre fetish that models offer and especially femdoms the whole like homewrecker thing they literally actually you know
00:53:32
Speaker
portray the whole I'm better than your wife kind of thing to make money.
00:53:36
Speaker
You know, it's all gone marketing wise and like, you know, capitalism wise, it's gone full on depraved and without boundaries and ways to escape it because you can't.
00:53:46
Speaker
Once you're on OnlyFans or on Twitter or something for that matter, you will get the most depraved messages, images and videos and stuff sent.
00:53:54
Speaker
And it's insane.
00:53:55
Speaker
I mean, we believe you.
00:53:56
Speaker
I mean, we were moderators on Reddit, so I can only imagine what you saw.
00:54:01
Speaker
And we were pretty grossed out just with that website.
00:54:04
Speaker
So I can only imagine what you were being sent.
00:54:06
Speaker
It's probably... Yeah, I can't.
00:54:09
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:54:09
Speaker
I'm just sorry men aren't better.
00:54:12
Speaker
But it's like, there's just... You know what I mean?
00:54:14
Speaker
There's no bottom to male depravity.
00:54:17
Speaker
And I cannot suggest this enough when we talk about...
00:54:20
Speaker
normalizing sex work.
00:54:21
Speaker
It's like if you let them normalize like sex work, like they will literally try to normalize every disgusting thing that you could like possibly conceive in even more so right.
00:54:31
Speaker
So like just listening to the stuff they're sending you.
00:54:34
Speaker
It's sad, it's sick and unsurprising.
00:54:37
Speaker
So can I just quickly touch on the femdom aspect?
00:54:40
Speaker
Because this isn't going to be like another dragon of BDSM because we drag it all over the shop on FDS.
00:54:46
Speaker
But one thing that I'm quite critical of the BDSM community and one of my main criticisms is that it replicates gender dynamics perfectly.
00:54:55
Speaker
And this is why BDSM will never, ever be illegal in conservative countries.
00:55:00
Speaker
So if you went to a conservative nation and said, I like to tie up my wife and beat her for sexual pleasure, they'll be like, okay, yeah, rock on, go for it, you know?
00:55:11
Speaker
But when I say this, you know, when I point out the fact that BDSM is a very, very gendered place in that, you know, 99% of the males in it are doms and 99% of the women are subs.
00:55:22
Speaker
There's always that one idiot who was like, there are female doms too.
00:55:25
Speaker
But from what I've heard from female doms is that their experience is often, it's not the same as the male doms experience.
00:55:34
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to get your perspective, having been a female dom to, I'm assuming, to male subs, you know, what that was like and the dynamics of those sorts of relationships.
00:55:47
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:55:48
Speaker
So I lost most of my subs in sessions after the first sessions.
00:55:54
Speaker
They didn't come back because I did what I wanted to do.
00:55:58
Speaker
Because I was like, I'm the fucking boss here.
00:56:01
Speaker
I want to fucking do what I want to do.
00:56:02
Speaker
I will do a little bit of what you booked me for, as in, you know, you are to explain.
00:56:08
Speaker
They will choose you for a session because you look a certain way, because you offer a list of fetishes that they are into.
00:56:18
Speaker
So you are a fetish dispenser from the beginning.
00:56:21
Speaker
You are dehumanized and objectified from the beginning.
00:56:25
Speaker
And then so they pick you and then they ask for a session.
00:56:28
Speaker
They're like, hey, mistress, I'm into.
00:56:30
Speaker
And my specialty was from the beginning, ball busting.
00:56:33
Speaker
So kicking men in balls, chastity, telling men to fucking keep their dick locked and send me the keys because they should just stop using their penises and just stop wanking to porn.
00:56:45
Speaker
That's kind of like my moral high ground that I was like on the whole time through.
00:56:49
Speaker
It was like, oh, yeah, I mean, this is not a bad job kind of thing.
00:56:51
Speaker
It was like, you know,
00:56:54
Speaker
Damn, I was going to say, I don't think this femdog thing is actually a bad idea.
00:56:59
Speaker
I'm joking.
00:57:00
Speaker
I'm joking.
00:57:01
Speaker
No, but like, now listen, listen, the reality of it all, you know, the reality of it all is obviously that they didn't come back because I wanted to have fun.
00:57:10
Speaker
So one of my main fun things that I did was like ride in princess saddle on their backs, like get on your fucking knees, like giggling, like a fucking, just ridiculing them.
00:57:20
Speaker
ridiculing them and in lots of dungeons they have like mirrors i would be like oh yeah come on you pig just stand in front of the mirror and just look in your fucking ugly ass face look how fucking pathetic you are like what a fucking disgusting creature you are and i'm sitting on him like like a princess like not pony play because he likes to do pony play like you know no i want to sit on his fucking back i want him to like drag on his fucking knees and carry me around i'm fairly small whatever it was fun like you know it was fun
00:57:48
Speaker
calling them pigs and stuff.
00:57:49
Speaker
Like, you know, it was fun.
00:57:51
Speaker
They hate that.
00:57:52
Speaker
They don't want to do what I want to do.
00:57:55
Speaker
Like a lot of them would be like stopping me and be like, oh, mistress, that's a little bit like, and I'm like, okay, turn.
00:58:00
Speaker
Like Jesus Christ, man.
00:58:02
Speaker
And yeah, again, I'm a really shit dumb because they mostly didn't return.
00:58:07
Speaker
Cause I did that with almost everyone.
00:58:09
Speaker
So it seems like as, you know, your experience aligns with the complaints from a lot of female doms is that the, the so-called male subs, they just see you as some sort of kink dispenser, almost in the same way as a, as a female sub, but they just see you as a kink dispenser and not as a person.
00:58:27
Speaker
Whereas,
00:58:28
Speaker
The thing is with female subs is that, at least from my experience and from other female subs I connected with, and also the experiences of female subs on the internet, is that they actually see their dominant as a human being.
00:58:41
Speaker
And they recognize that they're not interacting with a kink or a set of kinks, they're interacting with a person.
00:58:47
Speaker
And this is why women in BDSM, you know, whether you are a dom or a sub, they just get the raw end of the deal because men do not return the favor.
00:58:57
Speaker
And really important, like, you know, in these dumb sessions, like, you know, in prostitution and in film prostitution, so pornography, you can dissociate.
00:59:04
Speaker
Like, you know, that's the only way to survive.
00:59:06
Speaker
Like, you know, you just stare at the camera.
00:59:08
Speaker
You're like, you just clock out, snap out of it.
00:59:10
Speaker
In a dumb session, you have to be alert all of the time.
00:59:13
Speaker
You have to kind of like, you know, I still try to be a good dumb, but I think the only that one round pony thing and letting him look at his disgusting face was enough for most of them to break it with me.
00:59:24
Speaker
Even though they might have enjoyed the rest of it and they might have... Actually, now comes the fucking disgusting part.
00:59:29
Speaker
I was like, oh yeah, kicking man's balls, how class.
00:59:32
Speaker
Like, that's fucking fun.
00:59:33
Speaker
And I also did like CBT, you know, stomping on like literally with like shoes and shit.
00:59:37
Speaker
Like I was like, oh my God.
00:59:39
Speaker
But anyway, they pay me for it.
00:59:40
Speaker
I'll fucking do it.
00:59:41
Speaker
So they come from it.
00:59:43
Speaker
Like one guy, I nearly vomited everywhere because I can't like...
00:59:48
Speaker
He literally kicked his balls, kicked his all fucking shit around and he ejaculated from it.
00:59:53
Speaker
It was like, oh, thank you, Mrs.
00:59:57
Speaker
And I was just like, like, like, like gagging.
01:00:01
Speaker
I was like, so unprofessional.
01:00:03
Speaker
But then I told him like to lick it up and fuck it.
01:00:06
Speaker
But anyway, oh my God, man.
01:00:09
Speaker
It broke me.
01:00:10
Speaker
That's one of the realizations.
01:00:12
Speaker
I was like, my God, you know, they actually like it.
01:00:16
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:00:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:19
Speaker
That's insane.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah, males were a mistake.
01:00:20
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
01:00:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:25
Speaker
Oh my God, like honestly, I had this like returning customer on cam who ate his own shite and he didn't realize that whenever I had him, like I would just put something over my screen.
01:00:39
Speaker
Like, you know, I just put another like window over it, but he had to eat the whole plate like and he would like... Oh my, oh my God.
01:00:47
Speaker
And sorry, sorry, really sorry.
01:00:49
Speaker
But like before he came, he would be like, oh, mistress, I know you hate this.
01:00:52
Speaker
Like he came to me because he knew I really hated it.
01:00:56
Speaker
Like, you know, yeah, again, boundaries.
01:00:58
Speaker
But I was like, OK, well, I'm going to put up my minute price to like at one point it was like 10 quid per minute.
01:01:04
Speaker
And he would eat there.
01:01:05
Speaker
I would make a grand one five just from a call like that because he would be there for hours.
01:01:11
Speaker
This is the time I wish we had a video podcast because the shock Pikachu face I have right now.
01:01:17
Speaker
I can't describe.
01:01:20
Speaker
I'm really sorry.
01:01:22
Speaker
Like, it's so disgusting.
01:01:23
Speaker
I mean, no, it's like, I'm never surprised.
01:01:26
Speaker
That's the thing.
01:01:27
Speaker
Like, there's nothing you can say to me where I'd be like, no, a man wouldn't do that.
01:01:30
Speaker
There's nothing you can say to me that would make me feel like, oh, no, there's no man that would possibly.
01:01:37
Speaker
No, of course.
01:01:38
Speaker
Of course there are.
01:01:39
Speaker
Like, that's, yeah.
01:01:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:41
Speaker
Like he loves to deprave himself so much that he pays all of his money.
01:01:47
Speaker
Like he didn't have much money.
01:01:48
Speaker
Like he wouldn't come for another like two months that one time.
01:01:50
Speaker
Then I put it really high.
01:01:51
Speaker
But that's how fucked up they are.
01:01:54
Speaker
He had to come to me.
01:01:55
Speaker
He had to come to that one mistress who had it in his, I have in my profile.
01:01:59
Speaker
I was like, no shit like that.
01:02:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:02
Speaker
Well, we are not doing this here.
01:02:04
Speaker
He wants to coerce you into watching him eat his own shit.
01:02:08
Speaker
and pay way too much money for it too.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yes.
01:02:11
Speaker
To fuck him up really like a lot.
01:02:13
Speaker
And that's his thing.
01:02:15
Speaker
But yeah, lots of them.
01:02:16
Speaker
I think that's one of my worst and best because again, like rich, you know.
01:02:20
Speaker
You know, if we start running out of resources because of global warming, I feel like we need to start just kind of rounding these type of guys up and just not letting them consume any more air or anything.
01:02:33
Speaker
No, it's a waste.
01:02:33
Speaker
It's a waste, honestly.
01:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, interesting thing.
01:02:37
Speaker
Well, what I did all the way through was like field research and like asking the same questions to all of the men.
01:02:43
Speaker
Like, why, how, why are you doing this?
01:02:46
Speaker
Why?
01:02:50
Speaker
Why are you?
01:02:53
Speaker
Why are you into this shit?
01:02:54
Speaker
Why are you doing this?
01:02:56
Speaker
Like, why?
01:02:57
Speaker
And most of them would tell me the story that comes out of the mind of an ex-wife who has the emotional intelligence of a fucking pebble.
01:03:07
Speaker
They all had like pre-pubescent or like early puberty experiences, like, you know, the ball busters, for example, because they were fighting with a girl on the schoolyard and then kicked her.
01:03:19
Speaker
She kicked him on the balls and he kind of got hurt because.
01:03:22
Speaker
Because it was his first contact, physical contact with girls and that's how their organic kink forms.
01:03:29
Speaker
I have to really say that because nowadays when people say, oh yeah, I have a kink, what they mean is they've watched so much depraved pornography that they've now ended up at this certain kind of stuff that they saw.
01:03:42
Speaker
You know, it's really important to say, but like my field research that was with predominantly like older, like most of the clients would be older, like 45 plus, I guess.
01:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, the organic development would be like stories like that.
01:03:55
Speaker
And even something with the poo stuff, like all of these, it would all be like early puberty.
01:04:00
Speaker
Again, like really weird connections.
01:04:02
Speaker
Like, yeah, foot fetish.
01:04:04
Speaker
I had some foot fetishes as well.
01:04:06
Speaker
Looking at their mother, sister, teacher, really important, really important.
01:04:11
Speaker
and getting a boner and then being like, that's my thing now apparently, like what the hell?
01:04:16
Speaker
Who does that?
01:04:17
Speaker
Why?
01:04:18
Speaker
Why?
01:04:19
Speaker
Tell me.
01:04:20
Speaker
Because no, because that's not what, what?
01:04:24
Speaker
I don't get it.
01:04:25
Speaker
But again,
01:04:26
Speaker
you know, money.
01:04:26
Speaker
They paid me money.
01:04:28
Speaker
There were times where I got like lots of money off of them and stuff and that kept me in there.
01:04:34
Speaker
But yeah, only coming out, I realized again, I'm a fetish dispenser.
01:04:38
Speaker
Like, you know, they don't care.
01:04:39
Speaker
They literally do not care.
01:04:42
Speaker
I focused on beta male humiliation.
01:04:45
Speaker
That was my thing the whole way through, you know, which is the over like umbrella term, which includes then, you know, chastity kicking you in the dick, you know, emasculating you or yeah, this kind of stuff.
01:04:57
Speaker
Now there is a really important turning point or, and kind of like,
01:05:00
Speaker
important like crossover point that I have to the whole TRA stuff which is obviously that I had lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of men asking me to sissify them, force feminize them or force by with my partner then back then the black guy I was doing like interracial cuckolding
01:05:24
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
01:05:25
Speaker
So, you know, that was in video, but also like dominating another white male for being a beta male.
01:05:33
Speaker
Wait, one minute.
01:05:35
Speaker
I mean, so men were actually paying for this?
01:05:37
Speaker
They paid to buy condoms with the alpha males cum in it.
01:05:43
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:05:45
Speaker
I'm really sorry.
01:05:46
Speaker
No.
01:05:46
Speaker
No.
01:05:50
Speaker
I feel like I've left this cool lesbian.
01:06:01
Speaker
These are the creatures we're forced to stay our planet with that think they should be our leaders.
01:06:07
Speaker
But can you imagine, like, these are the creatures that are, like, running the world.
01:06:10
Speaker
Our institutions.
01:06:12
Speaker
What's the actual fuck?
01:06:14
Speaker
Politics.
01:06:14
Speaker
These are the men that call themselves High Valley.
01:06:17
Speaker
Fuck me.
01:06:18
Speaker
Alpha male can't play convention.
01:06:23
Speaker
Jesus wept.
01:06:24
Speaker
Like, Noah, send the flood.
01:06:26
Speaker
Actually, God, send the flood.
01:06:27
Speaker
Start again.
01:06:28
Speaker
Fucking hell.
01:06:30
Speaker
Reset it all.
01:06:31
Speaker
No, honestly, the internet wasn't a good idea, especially for men, like, on a big scale.
01:06:36
Speaker
They're actually paying for this shit.
01:06:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:39
Speaker
I mean, okay, so when I had this guy approach me, I had also money signs.
01:06:44
Speaker
I was like, yo, you know, I'm already a femdom.
01:06:47
Speaker
If I have a black male, I already knew about this fetish kind of stuff, right?
01:06:51
Speaker
I knew there's this interracial, if you do interracial, which is only ever, meaning...
01:06:55
Speaker
a black man with a quote-unquote BBC, you know, you all know, and, you know, a white woman.
01:07:01
Speaker
And then there's these, yeah, there's lots of them.
01:07:04
Speaker
And how it really started was with the popular rising of Blacked and stuff, you know, black.com.
01:07:10
Speaker
These really, they call it like glamorous interracial focused mainstream porn that really boosted this whole like movement of, yeah, interracial cuckolding, which is, you know, quote-unquote beta males.
01:07:25
Speaker
I call them, you know, so beta males, they're incels, but they're like on the porn side, right?
01:07:29
Speaker
So they're just like, I'm worth nothing.
01:07:32
Speaker
Women are, you know, they always pick the alpha male, blah, blah, blah.
01:07:36
Speaker
My role is like, just be a submissive servant.
01:07:38
Speaker
But what they mean is be a fucking disgusting creep and eat weird shit and be a fucking depravity in and of itself.
01:07:46
Speaker
And the crossover there is with the kind of like SJW thing.
01:07:50
Speaker
It gets more twisted with the whole like certification for use of trans maxing so that you can get penetrated by these alpha males.
01:08:02
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm really sorry.
01:08:04
Speaker
But like, oh my God, yes, this is like this.
01:08:06
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:08:07
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
01:08:08
Speaker
I swear to God, I had this inkling that a lot of people online who are social justice words online, like it's actually a kink.
01:08:15
Speaker
And now you're just confirming it.
01:08:19
Speaker
Very important.
01:08:20
Speaker
We need to do like a whole episode on like lefty SJW prostitution porn because that's a whole episode.
01:08:27
Speaker
I got the distinct feeling like interacting with some SJWs online.
01:08:30
Speaker
I'm like, oh, I feel like this is sexual for you, but I can't prove it.
01:08:37
Speaker
confirmation we need to definitely do a future episode on that my gosh like yeah that's a run through the stuff i've heard in this episode wow like oh my god i knew it was bad i didn't know it was that bad like i didn't know like males would actually pay for that amount of depravity fucking hell
01:09:02
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:09:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:03
Speaker
These males call themselves like they have usernames like virgin loser 88 or 89 or whatever.
01:09:10
Speaker
Like usually around my age as well.
01:09:14
Speaker
You can bet your life.
01:09:15
Speaker
You can bet your life.
01:09:17
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:09:18
Speaker
These men would call themselves the virgin losers are on like the red pill and the manosphere subreddits doing like alpha male 88, like bet your life on that.
01:09:28
Speaker
I would say they're on the fucking incel forums.
01:09:30
Speaker
Like, that's my, my guess is that, you know, I guess they are literally just on the incel forums as well.
01:09:35
Speaker
Like, it's all one, like... That's the thing about incels.
01:09:42
Speaker
The thing about incels that's actually hilarious is, like, how they're bottom-barrel, but they still look down on sex workers like they're above it.
01:09:48
Speaker
Like...
01:09:50
Speaker
because people have suggested they're like okay so i used to read the incel forms before they got kicked off reddit but like they would actually have a rule i would say like oh don't suggest us to see prostitutes because like it's beneath us you know we should be able to get women without having to pay for it and everything so like they're super like they have no one but they're like super deep they think they're like actually above women still it's weird
01:10:16
Speaker
Well, yeah, they objectified them so much that, you know, it's only beautiful women for them.
01:10:21
Speaker
The beta male, the kind of cuck or the fucking, they call, you know, the cuck or pussy free is also very important.
01:10:28
Speaker
They are like, I know I'm worth it.
01:10:29
Speaker
I'm ugly.
01:10:30
Speaker
And I'll just watch porn the whole time.
01:10:32
Speaker
Like, you know, but I'll never have sex because I know that I will fail.
01:10:35
Speaker
Like, you know, it's all like I have, I'm literally like just bottom barrel.
01:10:40
Speaker
But yeah, they just get porn addicted instead.
01:10:42
Speaker
That's their kind of way.
01:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, that was the kind of guys that I was dealing with for pretty much the whole time.
01:10:48
Speaker
And I made lots of money over the lockdown period then because I was locked down with my abuser with the few clips that I got out of him.
01:10:56
Speaker
Like, whatever, it doesn't matter.
01:10:58
Speaker
I could at least make lots of money, like lots of money.
01:11:00
Speaker
And I was like the highest paying.
01:11:02
Speaker
But, you know, with least effort because I'm like I was traumatized.
01:11:06
Speaker
all the time and I couldn't get out of bed.
01:11:08
Speaker
It was just really awful the whole time, actually.
01:11:10
Speaker
But I made 10K, 12K, 13K a month, you know, in three months in a row.
01:11:15
Speaker
And then I got a really big like meltdown, like what's it called?
01:11:18
Speaker
Just burnout and had to start from scratch again.
01:11:22
Speaker
And shortly after I was out, basically.
01:11:25
Speaker
But yeah, I used this man like, you know, I knew he was going to make me money.
01:11:30
Speaker
That was also something that, you know, made me kind of
01:11:33
Speaker
stay and it also made me kind of like natural boundaries so that men would stop sending me it would mostly stop that they sent me like dick pics and like hey babe do you want to see this big like all of these kind of stuff because I really got this whole like I could be like I don't deal with like you're all
01:11:53
Speaker
Beta males, like basically I could say all you white men, like leave me alone.
01:11:57
Speaker
I'm a dumb, I'm a, you know, I'm a mistress with this like alpha dude.
01:12:01
Speaker
And, you know, as soon as you talk to me, like with kind of like infantilizing language or something, I can like kick you off.
01:12:06
Speaker
And they, you know, mostly behaved because of that.
01:12:08
Speaker
It was like a kind of like boundary.
01:12:10
Speaker
That's the only thing that you can really do in this business is obviously that you get a, find a fetish or something that you can then use, you know, to your benefits.
01:12:19
Speaker
And that's when they stopped calling me like baby girl and all these kinds of things.
01:12:22
Speaker
And they stopped sending me their,
01:12:23
Speaker
penis pictures and I could actually do like I did like small penis humiliation so they send me their dicks after they pay me 50 quid and then I ridiculed them for how disgusting they are which you know better than nothing I had like a generic thing sometimes I didn't even look at them like it doesn't matter so you know but anyway that was kind of like that's really important again that's what I want to say about like boundaries for people who don't know what boundaries are in an industry that doesn't really provide boundaries and doesn't respect them even if you did
01:12:52
Speaker
And for me, that was what I kind of like did.
01:12:54
Speaker
I was like unintentionally or like intentionally.
01:12:57
Speaker
I was like, if I, you know, this is going to change everything.
01:13:00
Speaker
If I am doing this now, this is like, I have another position kind of thing.
01:13:04
Speaker
So change my whole marketing and change my name again.
01:13:07
Speaker
I changed my name four times always to kind of like hopefully get start new.
01:13:12
Speaker
Like, so they don't know what I did before and then, you know, start new.
01:13:16
Speaker
They'd always like find me again or still be obviously following me and like seeing my whole like fucking
01:13:21
Speaker
attempt of getting through all of this.
01:13:23
Speaker
But anyway, yeah.
01:13:23
Speaker
So that's the kind of story with that.
01:13:26
Speaker
So what's your next steps for you?
01:13:28
Speaker
So like, what is your, you know, your planning or pathway to, I think, transition to like a small mainstream market?
01:13:34
Speaker
Like, what are you interested in doing now?
01:13:37
Speaker
um i need to heal first i actually fled i fled from this abuser and the industry and everything from the uk i was living in london up until 2021 and came back to germany which where i've left like in 14 2014 never wanted to come back but i wanted to just get back on my public health and stuff and just get away from this stalker like he was literally stalking me up until the end like it was just
01:14:03
Speaker
insane and just want to get on therapy I'm still waiting it's been a year now because the you know everything is just overloaded but yeah I just want to heal I want to speak out I want to like I literally need to speak out because you know more people need to speak out I don't give a fuck
01:14:19
Speaker
I've been abused.
01:14:20
Speaker
I've been verbally abused in the industry called ugly and looking like a man or whatever forever.
01:14:26
Speaker
And I will just keep doing that.
01:14:27
Speaker
I don't give a fuck.
01:14:28
Speaker
I need to expose this whole fucking shithole.
01:14:31
Speaker
I will not stop with that.
01:14:33
Speaker
I will keep talking.
01:14:34
Speaker
And that's what part of my life will be.
01:14:37
Speaker
I want to start writing more and stuff like that.
01:14:39
Speaker
But yeah, after my therapy, which is coming up, and then I want to help survivors, but also women with body issues, maybe detransitioners, doing something called nature coaching.
01:14:50
Speaker
It's basically just mindfulness in nature.
01:14:52
Speaker
You just walk together and you can reflect on, maybe you look at something in nature and maybe it reminds you of something and you just organically get into something maybe deeper or find out something about yourself.
01:15:04
Speaker
It's not a therapy-like thing, but something like that.
01:15:07
Speaker
I'm very much like that.
01:15:08
Speaker
I'm actually a hippie, so I want a hippie in the sense that I think if women or if generally humans would have more contact just with the organic world and just see that they're part of the whole ecosystem, we're just one bit of the planet.
01:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, like things like how you look and how people make you feel or something.
01:15:27
Speaker
Maybe they aren't as important as you always think.
01:15:30
Speaker
Maybe, you know, looking for validation online and all these kind of things are actually, you know, unhealthy and having more time in nature and getting rid of all of that for a bit.
01:15:40
Speaker
That's kind of like what I want to build my future business or like what I do and probably like NGOs or things like that.
01:15:49
Speaker
That's what I want to do.
01:15:51
Speaker
Cool.
Reflections and Closing Thoughts
01:15:52
Speaker
That all sounds so, so wholesome, Roxy, and we wish you all the best in that journey.
01:15:57
Speaker
And thank you for sharing your story with us.
01:15:59
Speaker
It was very enlightening, sobering, and at times entertaining.
01:16:03
Speaker
But overall, it's a very, very, I guess, a powerful look into the sex trade and what it is actually about as well.
01:16:12
Speaker
So thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
01:16:15
Speaker
And maybe in the future we'll do a bonus content for people who can stomach it on like, on some of your femdom travels.
01:16:22
Speaker
I mean, I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.
01:16:26
Speaker
The BDSM community just needs to just die.
01:16:29
Speaker
But that's another conversation.
01:16:31
Speaker
Fuck me.
01:16:33
Speaker
One important tip for all female listeners, when someone talks about, oh yeah, I watch porn, whatever, question what kind of porn they are watching.
01:16:46
Speaker
Where have they ended up already?
01:16:48
Speaker
Are they on page 103?
01:16:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:56
Speaker
that's not funny but yeah it's true i know she made like you know exactly what you mean they're deep into that book and they're not coming back right they're gonna finish it all the way honestly ladies i just feel like my ovaries have just shrunk in this episode it's like they've just folded they've just been absorbed back into my body every day we stray further from god's light
01:17:25
Speaker
Honestly, I fully believe this is a Bible reference, but Sodom and Gomorrah was probably referring to BDSM stuff.
01:17:33
Speaker
I'm convinced.
01:17:35
Speaker
I am totally convinced that God was totally in the right way.
01:17:40
Speaker
Because when you read what was happening, it was like God sent his angels down to Sodom and then like a group of men tried to gang rape the angel.
01:17:47
Speaker
So I'm like, oh yeah, I think God was like, you know what?
01:17:49
Speaker
Fuck all y'all.
01:17:51
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:17:52
Speaker
Listen, if God thinks it's time to start the fuck over with the male species.
01:17:57
Speaker
Yes, it's time to hit the delete button.
01:18:00
Speaker
He was probably like, yeah, I don't know why I created this kind of like rapey, gross thing.
01:18:05
Speaker
Like it's time to hit the delete button on humanity.
01:18:08
Speaker
This is so funny.
01:18:09
Speaker
Like pretty much the entire Old Testament is God hitting the delete button on like on men like multiple times because he's just like, I keep giving you free will and you just keep making all this disgusting shit with it.
01:18:22
Speaker
You're doing all this disgusting shit.
01:18:24
Speaker
So yeah.
01:18:25
Speaker
I mean, if even God thinks humanity was irredeemable for like thousands of years before Jesus, then, you know, who are we?
01:18:32
Speaker
Who are we to question this judgment?
01:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, I guess that's what I would call it as well.
01:18:39
Speaker
I think if you are at the level where, you know, women...
01:18:43
Speaker
really young women with 18 come on the internet, on Twitter, and also the OnlyFans and already have kinks like consensual, non-consent, and really bad other things, then it's time to question everything.
01:18:54
Speaker
And obviously, yeah, the same goes for
01:18:58
Speaker
those creeps that have to be exposed for what they are and what they actually do online and that depravity has no ends.
01:19:04
Speaker
Like it's gone way too far.
01:19:07
Speaker
A little thing to Google for you is, and I want to finish off with that, is we have ended up where porn addiction is a fetish and it's called gooning.
01:19:16
Speaker
Gooning?
01:19:17
Speaker
Oh no.
01:19:19
Speaker
G-O-O-N-A.
01:19:21
Speaker
And well, yeah, that's literally what it is.
01:19:24
Speaker
They also call themselves like porn sexuals under the whole like flag fucking thing.
01:19:28
Speaker
You know what I mean?
01:19:29
Speaker
Christ.
01:19:30
Speaker
You know what I mean?
01:19:31
Speaker
You know, if you do it and the LGBTQ thing.
01:19:34
Speaker
Are they an oppressed minority now?
01:19:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:37
Speaker
Or their tech sexual, like, I don't know, whatever, like monosexual, I don't know, whatever.
01:19:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:41
Speaker
That's how far we are now.
01:19:43
Speaker
And that's like basically the end.
01:19:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:45
Speaker
It's like, you know, that's it.
01:19:48
Speaker
So this was an enlightening conversation.
01:19:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:51
Speaker
A further deep dive into male depravity.
01:19:55
Speaker
God.
01:19:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:56
Speaker
Thank you for listening to me and my disgusting stories.
01:19:59
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on, Roxy.
01:20:02
Speaker
No, this is great.
01:20:03
Speaker
I mean, I absolutely, I love, I think the granular detail about both the economic aspects of it and then like what exactly you're getting into when you get into sex work is so important because no one, like no one tells you, like you said, like no one says anything about like what sex the industry is actually like when you get in it.
01:20:17
Speaker
So this is, I think, hopefully super valuable for anybody listening.
01:20:21
Speaker
So yeah.
01:20:22
Speaker
All right.
01:20:22
Speaker
So I think I'll wrap.
01:20:23
Speaker
Did you have anything else, Samana?
01:20:24
Speaker
No, no.
01:20:25
Speaker
I'm just sighing at the despair of just what I've just heard.
01:20:27
Speaker
I'm still processing it.
01:20:28
Speaker
God, I just feel like... Yeah, I think Old Testament God needs to make a reappearance.
01:20:34
Speaker
Honestly, like Sodom and Gomorrah was talking about male depravity.
01:20:38
Speaker
Like they rewrote the Bible so it was like men and women.
01:20:41
Speaker
But there's no way men became this fucked up just now.
01:20:45
Speaker
Like that's what they were talking about back then.
01:20:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:48
Speaker
Okay.
01:20:49
Speaker
So if you want to talk about this episode, you can check us out on thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
01:20:54
Speaker
And also, if you want to listen to weekly bonus content, talk to us about this episode on the Discord, which I'm sure a lot of people have a lot of feedback.
01:21:00
Speaker
So I'm interested to hear.
01:21:02
Speaker
Go to patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy.
01:21:05
Speaker
Follow us on Twitter at fem.strat and on our Instagram at underscore thefemaledatingstrategy.
01:21:10
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
01:21:12
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, I hope Old Testament God smites you.
01:21:17
Speaker
While you sleep.
01:21:19
Speaker
Die mad.
01:21:20
Speaker
Bye.
01:21:21
Speaker
See you next week.