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37 Lies You Were Taught About Men (Part 1)
59 Plays3 years ago
We go through the first 12 points in the most popular post on the website "37 Lies You Were Taught About Men". JUST SAY THE THING! All Hail Princess Bebe the Queen.
https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com/post/37-lies-you-were-taught-about-men
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Podcast Introduction & Recommendations
00:00:00
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Hey there, all you true crime fans.
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We have a new podcast to recommend for you.
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She covers it all, from more well-known criminals like Illinois' Drew Peterson and Arizona's Jodi Arias, to lesser-known crimes like Hawaii's missing women, Diane Suzuki and Lisa Au, and the quadruple mansion murders in Maryland.
00:00:30
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Or tune in to hear about the true crime epidemic of Montana's Indigenous women.
00:00:35
Speaker
If you like fraud cases, she's got those too.
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Speaker
Listen to Iowa's huge hot lotto scammer Eddie Tipton or Florida's famous Miss Cleo and the Psychic Readers Network.
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True Crime in the 50 has something for everyone.
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So take a road trip across this country and check out the True Crime in 50 podcast available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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00:01:38
Speaker
So if you'd like access to all this and more, visit our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:01:50
Speaker
What's up, queens?
Introduction to '37 Lies You Were Taught About Men'
00:01:51
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:01:55
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:01:56
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:01:58
Speaker
And I'm Lilith.
00:02:00
Speaker
This week, we're going to dissect one of the most popular posts on the Female Dating Strategy website.
00:02:07
Speaker
That's at thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
00:02:10
Speaker
And it's called 37 Lies You Were Taught About Men.
00:02:15
Speaker
I love this post.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's a rapid-fire post.
00:02:19
Speaker
It's just a list, but it has condensed in 37 points so many of the different concepts that we cover on female
Cultural Myths about Men
00:02:27
Speaker
dating strategies.
00:02:27
Speaker
So we wanted to kind of go through them one by one.
00:02:30
Speaker
There's a few of them we've done full episodes on and explained in detail, and then a few that we think we're going to plan future episodes on.
00:02:37
Speaker
But we kind of wanted to give it this proper due because it's so cohesive and then gives...
00:02:44
Speaker
a large chunk of female dating strategy and what we're trying to accomplish a framework.
00:02:48
Speaker
What I love about this is it's like a machine gun, just like just mowing down all the male lives all in one place.
00:02:56
Speaker
Because a lot of men spread these kinds of narratives to benefit themselves, but they're not true.
00:03:01
Speaker
And that's what we at the female dating strategy were all about.
00:03:05
Speaker
debunking male myths.
00:03:07
Speaker
And it's not even just men, it's also like women as well, like mainstream media.
00:03:11
Speaker
We've, we've carefully documented this several times.
00:03:16
Speaker
They also push these myths as well, which are just completely false and do not benefit women in any way, shape or form.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's a weird thing.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of these lies I actually learned from female families.
00:03:28
Speaker
It wasn't just men perpetuating these myths, but this is like a comprehensive part of patriarchy, right?
00:03:33
Speaker
They may not have known better, right?
00:03:35
Speaker
So it's not necessarily that they knew that these things weren't true.
00:03:38
Speaker
It's just that like, this is the popular culture.
00:03:40
Speaker
This is the things they were taught.
00:03:41
Speaker
These things that they were told.
00:03:42
Speaker
This exists within the religious community.
00:03:44
Speaker
This exists within secular media.
00:03:46
Speaker
These are just certain types of myths that women are taught to do, which essentially are
00:03:51
Speaker
not true or exist only to give men the upper hand and to make women more easily exploitable.
00:03:57
Speaker
It's very sad, actually, when I see women perpetuating lies about men.
00:04:01
Speaker
Like I saw on Twitter the other day, a woman saying like, oh, you know, men are men who are abusive, you know, usually have abusive mothers.
00:04:08
Speaker
And I linked my Lundy Bancroft screenshot about how men actually...
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
You know, exactly.
00:04:15
Speaker
I said, I was like this, you know, that's what men say, but it's generally not true.
00:04:21
Speaker
Uh, that's a lie that men say that so that they can blame their abuse on a woman.
00:04:24
Speaker
Uh, more often than not, men learn their abusiveness from other men.
00:04:29
Speaker
Right.
00:04:29
Speaker
But they don't want, again, men don't want you to know that because, uh, that would
Debunking Myths about Male Attractiveness
00:04:33
Speaker
put the blame on a man.
00:04:33
Speaker
It would put the onus on them to improve.
00:04:35
Speaker
Then the jig would be up.
00:04:36
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:37
Speaker
The jig would be up.
00:04:37
Speaker
Right.
00:04:38
Speaker
So that's what we're, we're coming for you scrubs.
00:04:39
Speaker
We're coming for your lies.
00:04:41
Speaker
We're coming for your propaganda.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:43
Speaker
So rule number one, ugly men will treat you better because they'll be so grateful to have female attention.
00:04:49
Speaker
False!
00:04:50
Speaker
Lies!
00:04:50
Speaker
And this lie is often said to get women to settle because these men know that physically they're not up to par, so they try and say that, oh, you know, if a guy's attractive, he'll treat you like shit.
00:05:06
Speaker
And it's just like, if you go onto any of the dating subreddits and a woman is saying, I'm struggling to find a partner, almost definitely there'll be men in the comments saying, you need to lower your standards.
00:05:17
Speaker
Like, this lie does not benefit women at all because it's also not true.
00:05:22
Speaker
Like, some of the worst men...
00:05:25
Speaker
Also ugly as fuck.
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker
I mean, they're not even ugly.
00:05:29
Speaker
They're just not really conventionally attractive.
00:05:31
Speaker
I mean, some of them are just audacious and ugly as well, but, or they're just not very conventionally attractive.
00:05:36
Speaker
You ain't gotta lie, Savannah.
00:05:38
Speaker
You can just say, you ain't gotta be nice on this one, Savannah.
00:05:41
Speaker
I'm kidding.
00:05:41
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:05:42
Speaker
That's fine.
00:05:43
Speaker
They're not ugly.
00:05:44
Speaker
They're just not conventionally attractive.
00:05:45
Speaker
Just say it.
00:05:46
Speaker
Say it.
00:05:46
Speaker
Just say the words.
00:05:48
Speaker
Do it.
00:05:49
Speaker
I unfortunately used to buy into this myth a lot because of, I think it was mostly like my own insecurity.
00:05:54
Speaker
I thought that like, oh, if I'm dating a man who's...
00:05:57
Speaker
I mean, insecurity and also, like, buying into male propaganda, where, yeah, I thought, like, oh, if I date a guy who's less attractive than me, then he'll appreciate me more, or treat me better.
00:06:06
Speaker
And that's not fucking true.
00:06:08
Speaker
I find, if anything, some of the most abusive, most psychologically, like, psychologically and emotionally abusive men are ugly men, because they'll do, they'll, like, try to break down your self-esteem slowly and surely, so that instead of feeling like you're better than him, he wants to, like, bring you down to his level, right?
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:26
Speaker
So, like, they do that on purpose to, so that you don't leave, right?
00:06:30
Speaker
So that you don't realize that you can do better.
00:06:32
Speaker
Ugly men hate women the most also because they feel rejected and they feel, they resent women for not giving them the attention that they feel that they're entitled to.
00:06:41
Speaker
And when they finally do find a woman who gives them attention, they psychologically break her down so that she never tries to leave.
00:06:47
Speaker
I strongly feel that ugly men started a petition to the government to disseminate the fact that they were sexually desirable partners through some kind of government psyop.
00:06:57
Speaker
That's my own.
00:06:58
Speaker
No, it's a manosphere.
00:06:59
Speaker
It's not a government psyop.
00:07:00
Speaker
It's just all the ugly guys got together and created the manosphere to help perpetuate that.
00:07:06
Speaker
No, this myth actually exists.
00:07:08
Speaker
This is a pre-Manosphere myth.
00:07:10
Speaker
This is a myth that's been going on forever.
00:07:12
Speaker
This is like an old-timey myth, quite frankly, about how women need to lower their standards in the way that men look.
00:07:18
Speaker
Because basically the idea is that in a patriarchy, women are required to make trade-offs.
00:07:24
Speaker
Trade-offs and attraction if you need to get married to support yourself.
00:07:27
Speaker
I mean, we have like fairy tales to that effect, right?
00:07:29
Speaker
The propaganda has been never ending that, oh, you should lower your standards.
00:07:33
Speaker
Look at that kind hearted guy that's not the most attractive, but might have a good heart.
00:07:37
Speaker
And the idea is to get you to marry that guy so you can have some kind of security, even though you're not necessarily sexually attracted to him.
00:07:44
Speaker
But the problem is, is that in practice, because all men are indoctrinated into patriarchy.
00:07:50
Speaker
Like they don't like this, not like men are consuming different media if they're ugly, if they're not ugly or consuming different cultural tropes.
00:07:57
Speaker
They all think they're a Chad, right?
00:07:59
Speaker
And so they figure out through rejection that they're actually ugly.
00:08:02
Speaker
So, but even if they figure out they're actually ugly, they're, you can, you see how the incels act, right?
00:08:06
Speaker
Like they're still bitter, resentful.
00:08:08
Speaker
They want the government to come in and like split up women so they can have access to women.
00:08:11
Speaker
So
00:08:12
Speaker
The problem is cultural.
00:08:13
Speaker
It's the things that men learn, and those things that they learn don't discriminate by looks.
00:08:17
Speaker
And quite frankly, it's a crapshoot about what kinds of things men believe and see and do, and it's based on their family upbringing as well as how much they consume culture.
00:08:26
Speaker
And so it could be very ugly men are very, very entitled, and men who are very, very attractive may be less
Contradictory Standards for Women
00:08:32
Speaker
entitled.
00:08:32
Speaker
It's not...
00:08:34
Speaker
any type of distribution in the way that the Manosphere likes to suggest.
00:08:37
Speaker
The Manosphere is the one that tried to make it seem like it was just like some kind of simple formula to that effect.
00:08:41
Speaker
It's just so false.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, like the way that men treat you is largely based on the upbringing that they got and not on their looks.
00:08:48
Speaker
So there are lots of, you know, there are lots of men who were raised, but with mothers like Gail Dines, you know, who raised them to respect women and that could be regardless of their looks.
00:08:58
Speaker
So
00:08:58
Speaker
And also my experience as well, like the more attractive men I've come across, like they've actually treated me a lot better than the less attractive ones.
00:09:07
Speaker
Because I mean, this is a very, very small sample.
00:09:10
Speaker
So I'm not saying that attractive men can't be dickheads.
00:09:13
Speaker
They absolutely can.
00:09:15
Speaker
But I find in my experience that the more attractive men, they knew, they also knew how to speak to women.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, because they talk to more women.
00:09:24
Speaker
It's because they talk to more women, yeah.
00:09:25
Speaker
These unattractive men, they often don't know how to speak to women.
00:09:31
Speaker
They're very socially awkward.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then because they then start blaming women for ignoring them, it's essentially just a loop of extremely negative feedback for them, which basically fuels their entitlement and hatred of women.
00:09:44
Speaker
Whereas the more attractive men, because they come across more women...
00:09:50
Speaker
they actually know how to speak to women as well.
00:09:52
Speaker
So that's just my very anecdotal experience.
00:09:55
Speaker
And the patriarchy would also have you believe that you can't have both.
00:09:59
Speaker
You can't have a guy you're genuinely attracted to and who treats you well.
00:10:03
Speaker
And again, it's not true.
00:10:05
Speaker
It might take you longer to find such a man, but they do exist.
00:10:10
Speaker
In my experience, the guys that are very mid are the ones that are most insecure.
00:10:14
Speaker
They're not ugly, but they're not hot either.
00:10:16
Speaker
But those are the guys that I've been blindsided several times as far as them actually being players because I just sort of thought they were normal guys.
00:10:22
Speaker
But then you realize underneath there, they're trying to be like the handsome guys and feel like they get a lot of attention for women.
00:10:29
Speaker
So they're almost, in some respects, more likely to engage in manipulative tactics.
00:10:33
Speaker
So it's like...
00:10:34
Speaker
I'm more suspicious of like midway attractive men than I am suspicious of attractive men.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah, there are some ugly guys who just own it.
00:10:42
Speaker
They just like... I do know a few men like that where like they know they're ugly and they just accept that and just, you know...
00:10:50
Speaker
And they don't hate women.
00:10:51
Speaker
Some guys are just like that.
00:10:52
Speaker
You know, they're just like, ah, I guess I'm just going to be an incel, like whatever kind of thing.
00:10:56
Speaker
Or they just learn how to be friends with women and they attract women through friendship groups.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:00
Speaker
Every woman's not equally beautiful either, right?
00:11:02
Speaker
Like there's plenty of people who are not the most attractive people who find love and it's fine.
00:11:06
Speaker
It's just, you have to learn pro-social skills.
00:11:09
Speaker
Very true.
00:11:09
Speaker
It's just, it's a little harder, but pro-social skills become a little bit more important, but it doesn't mean that these guys inherently treat women better.
00:11:16
Speaker
I want to rant real quick about how men often say, and I see this all the time on Twitter, men often act like, throwback to what Savannah said earlier about how men act like it's impossible to have a guy who both is attractive and treats you well.
00:11:30
Speaker
Like, they'll often, quote, retweet me in a hostile way and be like, oh, these FDS women with their impossible standards.
00:11:37
Speaker
How dare they want to fuck men they're attracted to?
00:11:40
Speaker
They're supposed to suffer and hate sex and do it as a duty until they're resentful and then divorce, rape them at 40 because they decide that this is not worth it
00:11:46
Speaker
anymore.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
No, I want to do a whole episode almost on just like how men, this is such a projection though, because men have these, men have standards for women that are literally contradictory.
00:11:57
Speaker
In my personal experience, for example, men will be like, oh, you know, I like your body, but I resent how much time you spend in the gym to achieve it.
00:12:04
Speaker
You know, you should be naturally beautiful or you should have a naturally perfect body or, you know, they'll, they, they
00:12:11
Speaker
They expect me to stay a size four or whatever, but if I eat a salad or
Addressing Abusive Relationships
00:12:16
Speaker
whatever, they're weirdly hostile to that.
00:12:17
Speaker
Like, they want me to eat what they eat, which is, like, burgers and, like, pizza and shit.
00:12:21
Speaker
And if I eat, like, in a healthier way, they'll just, they'll resent me for that, too, kind of thing.
00:12:25
Speaker
So men have literally, men have contradictory standards for women, and if they're contradictory, they're impossible.
00:12:32
Speaker
There's nothing contradictory about wanting a man who's both attractive and treats you well.
00:12:36
Speaker
They're not mutually exclusive things.
00:12:38
Speaker
But I'm going to do a whole other episode on that because fuck those guys.
00:12:41
Speaker
Anyways, so lie number two.
00:12:45
Speaker
Older men are more mature and better in bed.
00:12:48
Speaker
False.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
We did an episode about this called Age Gaps in Old Man Peen.
00:12:53
Speaker
First of all, men who go after much younger women are generally predatory and are actually generally worse because they know that they can't impress a woman their own age.
00:13:04
Speaker
So they have to go for a much younger woman who doesn't know any better or has no basis of comparison to make himself look good.
00:13:09
Speaker
And the second part, erectile dysfunction in older men is real.
00:13:12
Speaker
So...
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:14
Speaker
Granted, young guys now have a porn-induced erectile dysfunction, so there's that.
00:13:18
Speaker
The only thing that older guys have going for them is that they haven't been watching, you know, violent abuse porn on Pornhub since the age of, like, eight.
00:13:25
Speaker
But they're catching up.
00:13:27
Speaker
But that's not even a guarantee anymore, like, that Coomers and Boomers is a thing, so, yeah.
00:13:32
Speaker
They might have more money, maybe, sort of, kind of, if they're, than maybe the guys your age.
00:13:37
Speaker
But also maybe.
00:13:38
Speaker
Also big maybe.
00:13:38
Speaker
So anyways.
00:13:39
Speaker
They also might be living at home, as we discussed.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
content so yeah it's a massive gamble so you may as well not bother to be honest yeah so check out our age gaps and old man old man peanut episode for more discussion on that one also i've never met a guy who's 50 who was more attractive than when he was 20 okay true the same man yeah some men can look good you know some men are like silver foxes or whatever but most of those guys looked they were already attractive yeah they were already attractive even in their 20s and 30s right so
00:14:10
Speaker
yeah date someone your own fucking age god okay um rule lie number three if you're really a bad bitch then men won't treat you badly if you're attracting bums it's your fault and so lindy bancroft um
00:14:25
Speaker
In the episode that we recorded with him, he touched on this a lot.
00:14:30
Speaker
And he basically said that the reason why so many women end up with bad and abusive men is because there are so many bad and abusive men.
00:14:40
Speaker
It's not something that the individual woman is doing.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's just because there are so many shitty men out there.
00:14:45
Speaker
This is a victim-blaming tactic by men to say that if you're being abused, it's automatically your fault for picking these guys.
00:14:52
Speaker
But I think this is actually in the Patreon part of the episode.
00:14:54
Speaker
But like you said, a lot of these behaviors are cultural.
00:14:57
Speaker
I just kind of started a tweet about conflict that's going on right now in Afghanistan because...
00:15:05
Speaker
A lot of Muslim women there are choosing not to wear the hijab.
00:15:08
Speaker
And so basically the scrotes are stroking out and trying to murder them and run up in the house, etc.
00:15:13
Speaker
So is it their fault because they're picking the bad guys?
00:15:16
Speaker
No, it's just that the entire culture has created a very, very hostile environment such that if you date at all...
00:15:23
Speaker
You're going to be very likely to pick a guy who believes these things.
00:15:27
Speaker
And that's why for women, the change when it comes to our dating pool has to happen on the cultural level.
00:15:32
Speaker
It's not as individualist as it is for men.
00:15:35
Speaker
Whereas like if they're failing, generally they're failing because they personally suck.
00:15:39
Speaker
For women, a lot of times it's just pervasive cultural attitudes that don't benefit us.
00:15:43
Speaker
In which case we have to change it via feminism, education, ruthless strategy, and cutting guys off.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah, I will say, like, the only... There may be a grain of truth in this that if men get the impression that you're the sort of woman who doesn't put up with shit, and they really, really, really, really want to fuck you, they might pretend and hide all their bad qualities, right?
00:16:08
Speaker
And then their abusiveness or their bad traits won't come out until later, until after they've had sex or after you're married to them or after...
00:16:17
Speaker
you know, they've gotten you pregnant or something like that.
00:16:20
Speaker
So that's another thing to be aware of, like, just because, granted, like, don't go out there and, like, act all vulnerable and stuff, like, you know, to see if the guy doesn't treat you well, right, as a vetting strategy.
00:16:32
Speaker
Like, definitely...
00:16:33
Speaker
You know, be a ruthless queen, but also be mindful that just because a man is acting high value right now doesn't mean that he won't, that he's not hiding his low value traits.
00:16:42
Speaker
And also in our El Camihira episode, we talked about how a lot of times men seek out women who are competent.
00:16:49
Speaker
That it is, you know, there's a couple of different facets and a couple different types of abusers.
00:16:54
Speaker
And some men like the process of trying to conquer and humble a truly strong and independent woman.
00:17:00
Speaker
And they can be very manipulative in the way that they do that.
00:17:03
Speaker
So sometimes it's not even just attractiveness.
00:17:04
Speaker
It's just that like you actually being a competent, well-rounded, attractive person.
00:17:10
Speaker
attracts more bums to you because first of all, the kind of loser guys look at you like a trophy, but also the men who are truly nefarious, they look at you like, oh, we got to humble her.
00:17:21
Speaker
Like she's, you know, we don't like that she has this kind of confidence.
00:17:25
Speaker
I've said this before as well, but when I was in the BDSM scene, like Doms would say, that they tended to get more out of dominating a submissive who was strong, independent, outside BDSM, because they saw that as a bigger challenge.
00:17:43
Speaker
And they felt just essentially they got a lot more out of dominating her than your stereotypical submissive who was very dependent.
00:17:51
Speaker
So that dynamic was also at play even there as well.
00:17:56
Speaker
See, I just see that as proof that BDSM is about being like a water carrier, like reinforcing patriarchy.
00:18:02
Speaker
Because there's so much porn, for example, of like, oh, conquering a feminist.
00:18:08
Speaker
There's even porn of like, where there's like a dominatrix and then a man like breaks in and like rapes her or something like that, right?
00:18:14
Speaker
Like, they like the idea of conquering a strong or a dominant woman.
00:18:18
Speaker
It's about punishing women for...
00:18:21
Speaker
you know, not being submissive, right?
00:18:22
Speaker
They don't get as much excitement.
00:18:24
Speaker
They see a woman who's already submissive and they're like, nah, like, you know, you're already brainwashed.
00:18:28
Speaker
There's nothing I can do.
00:18:29
Speaker
They want to take the one who's not brainwashed and then brainwash her.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:35
Speaker
But yeah, but just to wrap up the point about, you know, if you're attracting bums, it's your fault.
00:18:39
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:18:40
Speaker
A lot of men are just bums.
00:18:42
Speaker
And I also want to point out how a lot of these guys who say this kind of stuff, like, they'll blame women for choosing the wrong man, but then when women start raising their standards and rejecting shitty men, that's when they go, oh my god, you're rejecting too many guys!
00:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, they're never happy, so do what's best for you.
00:18:58
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:58
Speaker
Put yourself versus don't worry about what men do.
00:19:02
Speaker
And also, this is a very pernicious myth because it's a way of getting women to blame themselves rather than blame men or to change the culture.
00:19:10
Speaker
And men don't want us to change the culture.
00:19:12
Speaker
They want it to stay that way because it benefits them.
Equitable vs. Equal Relationships
00:19:15
Speaker
Lie number four.
00:19:16
Speaker
You should always pay your own way on dates because he'll be impressed you're an independent woman who don't need a man.
00:19:22
Speaker
And it's the only way to establish an equal relationship and gain a man's respect.
00:19:26
Speaker
False.
00:19:27
Speaker
False.
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
First of all, FDS is not looking for an equal relationship.
00:19:32
Speaker
We're looking for an equitable relationship and they are not the same thing.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:37
Speaker
So first of all, yeah, I used to, I also used to buy into this myth that, you know, I'll whip out the wallet on the first date, show him you're a boss bitch kind of thing.
00:19:45
Speaker
And I find the problem with this is that the only men that you end up attracting are users and bums and men who are like, yes, I really like the idea of a woman paying for me kind of thing, right?
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
And cheapskates, yeah.
00:19:59
Speaker
And cheapskates, right?
00:20:01
Speaker
And I feel really bad for women who... And I encounter women saying this all the time, where they're like, oh, I want him to see me as an equal.
00:20:07
Speaker
I don't want to feel like I owe him anything.
00:20:10
Speaker
And it's like, no, when you pay on a date, sis, he doesn't see you as an equal.
00:20:14
Speaker
He sees you as a sucker.
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker
Okay?
00:20:16
Speaker
Like, actual high-value men, like the sort of men you want to date, they'll either be like...
00:20:22
Speaker
kind of neutral about it, but they'll either be, like, not that impressed or, like, kind of neutral, or sometimes they'll even be a little bit uncomfortable by that.
00:20:30
Speaker
Like, some men, like, they take pride in being generous and in paying for the woman, and if she whips out the wallet, you know, it's seen as, like, some men will see that as almost, like, emasculating or something, which is also maybe a yellow flag, but, you know...
00:20:45
Speaker
But I think this is one of those pervasive cultural myths that was a product of second wave feminism and kind of continues because the general push with feminism has been, you know, too much to our disapproval.
00:21:01
Speaker
Chagrin.
00:21:02
Speaker
Chagrin, yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
To our disapproval is that...
00:21:05
Speaker
the way to establish equality is to divorce yourself from the idea that there are sex differences.
00:21:12
Speaker
And so then if you pay for a man, you're establishing economic equality with him in that date.
00:21:16
Speaker
But as we know, we've talked about this, you can't really go 50-50 on a baby when it comes to household chores, when it comes to household maintenance.
00:21:23
Speaker
A lot of those things still tend to fall on women.
00:21:25
Speaker
Men have not evolved to the point that they can do those things.
00:21:27
Speaker
They definitely will never evolve to the point where they can carry a child.
00:21:30
Speaker
So, um,
00:21:32
Speaker
at this point, you have to seek out a situation that's equitable for you instead of trying to focus on equality.
00:21:38
Speaker
And furthermore, because of the fact that a lot of women were doing this, the Red Pill Scroats figured out, oh, I can go on a bunch of cheap dates.
00:21:45
Speaker
I can plate multiple women.
00:21:47
Speaker
I can plate a lot of women because it doesn't cost them anything anymore.
00:21:50
Speaker
The idea is to make your dates caught, like to make going out with you costly enough that a man who, like a guy who's like a West End Caleb, check Twitter for that.
00:22:00
Speaker
West End Caleb, yeah.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, a guy who is like simply seeking cheap sex and simply seeking a lot of dates won't be able to go through you because it'll cost him too much to do that.
00:22:11
Speaker
Like you'll have to be way more strategic about the women that he targets that he's generally interested in.
00:22:16
Speaker
Where right now, these guys can just go and swipe right on everything.
00:22:19
Speaker
And then if you pay for everything...
00:22:21
Speaker
or you pay for him, and some of these red pill guys are having women pay for them, then it doesn't cost them anything.
00:22:26
Speaker
They can do this in perpetuity, and they're basically getting women out of their price range who are actually... Well, this myth benefits fuckboys only.
00:22:36
Speaker
And you're also setting the tone for the rest of your relationship.
00:22:41
Speaker
If you decide to get into a relationship with a man who's willing to go 50-50 on the date, he will spend the rest of the relationship 50-50, even when it's not fair to you.
00:22:51
Speaker
There are so many stories of...
00:22:54
Speaker
you know women saying you know my boyfriend earned six figures and i'm on you know 50k and we split everything 50 50 to the point where it's literally impoverishing them and he's stacking his savings like if you're going 50 50 at dinner you are setting essentially setting the tone for the rest of the relationship he's not all of a sudden gonna turn around and then start you know spoiling you and treating you like the way you deserve to be treated because the behavior you accept in the beginning is what will continue the
00:23:23
Speaker
This myth, I feel, rewards fuckboys.
00:23:25
Speaker
It's been a gift to shitty, cheap, low-value men.
00:23:29
Speaker
What we need to do, like, not just us at FDS, but I mean, like, women overall, like, on the wider culture, we need to make dating more costly for men so that fuckboys can't afford to be fuckboys, right?
00:23:42
Speaker
And only the best men compete as well.
00:23:44
Speaker
If you raise the price of entry, only the best ones will compete.
00:23:47
Speaker
And
Communicating Relationship Goals Early
00:23:48
Speaker
that's the way it should be.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, but the idea is more about, like, we want men to be more selective as well.
00:23:53
Speaker
Like, this is another thing.
00:23:53
Speaker
Like, men often say, like, oh, like, you know, you delusional FDS women, you want standards, but you don't think men should have standards.
00:23:59
Speaker
No, we think men should have standards.
00:24:01
Speaker
We would like men to be more selective and invest in a smaller number of women, ideally one woman, rather than investing a very small amount in a lot of women.
00:24:11
Speaker
Like, you know, basically being community dick, right?
00:24:14
Speaker
So, yeah, that's why dating should be costly to men.
00:24:18
Speaker
It's something that they want, and if it's costly to them, they'll limit the number of women they fuck around with.
00:24:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:26
Speaker
Five.
00:24:27
Speaker
Bringing up the fact that you're looking for a committed relationship early will scare them away, so it's better to play it cool.
00:24:34
Speaker
I don't know where that myth came from, but I distinctly remember a lot of dating coaches advising that like, oh, never come on too strong.
00:24:43
Speaker
Like you're looking for a serious relationship because it seems like you don't have any options, et cetera, et cetera.
00:24:48
Speaker
And there's a way to communicate that you're looking for something serious without being a downer.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, without being a downer or like acting like you don't have options.
00:24:56
Speaker
And also, quite frankly, I don't know why people seem to think that it's women's responsibility to trick men into relationships.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:04
Speaker
That also seems like maybe a boomer era thing where it was like you would always see these.
00:25:08
Speaker
At least I don't know where it came from, but I just remember seeing a lot of like holiday gift cards at the store or like magnets and bumper stickers.
00:25:18
Speaker
And it would always be some woman like dragging her husband to the aisle.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:23
Speaker
Down the altar or to the altar.
00:25:24
Speaker
Drag your husband down the aisle to the altar to get married.
00:25:27
Speaker
So I feel like this is like leftover boomer humor.
00:25:31
Speaker
Maybe.
00:25:33
Speaker
I don't know.
00:25:33
Speaker
I do think I... So there's a grain of truth in this in that generally speaking, the less interested person in the relationship has more power.
00:25:43
Speaker
And so my FDS angle on this is first of all, like...
00:25:48
Speaker
You know, don't, like, throw yourself at men.
00:25:50
Speaker
Like, don't chase men either, right?
00:25:52
Speaker
So, but it's okay to make it clear that you want something serious and that you're not going to just, like, have sex on the first date or that you're not going to, like, you're not down with friends with benefits, that kind of stuff, like...
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah, in hindsight, this is probably just an extension of cool girling now that I'm thinking about it.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's like it's because of the entire like sex positive casual sex hookup culture thing.
00:26:14
Speaker
It became uncool to say you're looking for a committed relationship up front.
00:26:18
Speaker
You were supposed to be cool with having sex and hooking up and then seeing where things go.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:23
Speaker
Because you were like being... You're being desperate or clingy or needy or... Yeah.
00:26:30
Speaker
If you require any type of commitment before having sex with someone.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's why my FDS advice or my FDS spin on this would be like... Okay, the other thing is for some men, if you tell them early on that you want a relationship, they'll pretend to be... Like they'll say all the things that you want to hear.
00:26:47
Speaker
They'll future fake with you.
00:26:48
Speaker
They'll pretend to be a great boyfriend right up until...
00:26:50
Speaker
they have sex with you and then they'll ghost after.
Challenging Sexual Expectations in Dating
00:26:53
Speaker
So what I personally do when I'm dating is I, I keep in mind my goal that I want a relationship.
00:26:59
Speaker
Um, but I don't like, I just don't throw myself at the man.
00:27:03
Speaker
I let him kind of come to me.
00:27:04
Speaker
And that puts you in the position of power rather than with a lot of women who say, I'm looking for a committed relationship.
00:27:09
Speaker
Don't hurt me.
00:27:10
Speaker
I'm not here to play games.
00:27:11
Speaker
And then what happens is like, Oh, the fuck boys think she's here to play games.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
I'm here to play games with her or it's going to be fun to do that.
00:27:18
Speaker
I think the idea is that, again, if you make it somewhat costly to get to you, even if he turns out to be a fuckboy later, you think he's all in the relationship and then he eventually goes to you.
00:27:27
Speaker
That's still vastly better than having sex on his mattress on the floor
00:27:32
Speaker
after a drunken night at the bar and then you just wake up feeling cheap and gross and the guy's ignoring you right from now on like at least make him put some kind of effort up front so I think sometimes signaling that you are more interested in a competitive relationship forces him to realize he's going to have to put some effort in to have sex with you rather than
00:27:51
Speaker
The alternative, which is just cheap sex, unless you're looking for cheap sex, in which case, listen to our casual sex episode.
00:27:58
Speaker
No, but my strategy is to, like, I know that I want a relationship, but I, so I make it clear that I'm looking for a relationship, but that I'm not necessarily in...
00:28:09
Speaker
Not with them, right?
00:28:09
Speaker
Not necessarily with them.
00:28:11
Speaker
Exactly, right?
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker
And this is the other thing, is a lot of men will rush to commit once they realize that you're, you know, potentially dating other men and so on, right?
00:28:20
Speaker
So I like to keep my options open personally.
00:28:25
Speaker
You know, if a man shows me a sufficient level of commitment and wooing, then I'll have, then yeah, I'll have a relationship with him.
00:28:32
Speaker
But yeah, it's not about like, basically what I hate about rule five is like,
00:28:39
Speaker
It creates the groundwork for you to be like a casual sex partner for a man before he commits to you.
00:28:46
Speaker
And so if you just as a personal rule don't have sex with men unless you're in a committed relationship with them, then that will – It sets a boundary.
00:28:56
Speaker
It sets a boundary and it motivates them to commit to you more.
00:29:00
Speaker
And you can decide at any point you don't want to commit a relationship with them and you've still gotten the benefit of them believing you might.
00:29:06
Speaker
So then they start to invest in you and take you out or treat you nice, maybe nicer than they would a hookup.
00:29:12
Speaker
So that's the other reason.
00:29:14
Speaker
Why number six, a man should be able to expect sex after the first or after the third date.
00:29:21
Speaker
No!
00:29:22
Speaker
I have to say, before FDS, I had actually internalized this concept to the point where I would actually get enormous anxiety at the thought of having a third date with a man, because I thought, oh, if we have a third date, that means I have to have sex with him.
00:29:38
Speaker
Like, it felt like something that wasn't optional.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, or like he would start to expect sex and that I was being unreasonable if I didn't want to have sex with a person after a third date.
00:29:49
Speaker
And a lot of the third... I cannot remember, again, where did the three-date rule come to be?
00:29:55
Speaker
I think it's once again one of those things that men just asserted and then LibFem media fell all over itself to be the cool girls and say, like, it's unreasonable if you don't know after the third date if you want to have sex with some guy.
00:30:06
Speaker
And I think the third date is actually way too soon to know if you want to have sex with someone.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, like a men...
00:30:12
Speaker
I think it's a deliberate male psyop because it's so easy to pretend to be a good person for three dates.
00:30:18
Speaker
Um, and I think it's also just a way of men being like, okay, this is a, I'm going to put a cap on this.
00:30:22
Speaker
Like you can't expect me to spend more time.
00:30:25
Speaker
And you know, um, it's a man's way of like assuring that they can get sex with minimal investment.
00:30:31
Speaker
It's like, this is a cap on how much I'm willing to invest in you before, uh, you fuck me kind of thing.
00:30:38
Speaker
And when you look at like relationship advice forums on Reddit, they all act like it's unreasonable for women to not know if they want to have sex with a guy after a third date.
00:30:47
Speaker
It's like, oh, well, you can't be surprised if he moves on, et cetera, et cetera.
00:30:52
Speaker
And like that if you don't know right away that you're the problem.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:30:57
Speaker
And these, you know, these myths also stack up.
00:31:01
Speaker
If you think of the myth that says, you know, if you pay 50-50, you're a strong, independent woman.
00:31:07
Speaker
And then, you know, this myth that says, if you, you know, you have to sleep with him, you know, by the third day, you know, what does it circle back to?
00:31:16
Speaker
Increasing men's access to women.
00:31:19
Speaker
That's essentially what it circles back to, which...
00:31:22
Speaker
which is the bedrock of patriarchy.
00:31:24
Speaker
And you're essentially susceptible to fuckboys who basically want a free prostitute.
00:31:30
Speaker
I remember FGS used to get really, really slammed for using that term a lot.
00:31:34
Speaker
But that's essentially what a lot of these men are looking for, is just a free prostitute.
00:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:39
Speaker
They're not looking for a relationship.
00:31:41
Speaker
They're not looking for emotional intimacy.
00:31:43
Speaker
And also, here's the thing.
00:31:45
Speaker
It is possible to, like, here's the thing.
00:31:47
Speaker
I could, like, know that I want to have sex with a guy on the third date and still want to wait just because I want to vent more.
00:31:53
Speaker
Right?
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:55
Speaker
And also I like the anticipation as well.
00:31:57
Speaker
I like the buildup.
00:31:58
Speaker
It's not all about the end result as well.
00:32:00
Speaker
There's also that too.
00:32:02
Speaker
It's also possible to be intimate with somebody without having sex with them.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:06
Speaker
Like there, here's the thing, like generally within the first like 15 minutes of meeting a guy, I already know in my head, whether I think he's fuckable or not.
00:32:14
Speaker
Um, you know, but from that, the re you know, the purpose of the dates is to find out if he's the sort of person that, um,
00:32:23
Speaker
is basically a way of making him invest, because I'm just the sort of person, like, I know that if I have... We talked about this in the casual sex episode.
00:32:29
Speaker
I get emotionally attached during sex.
00:32:31
Speaker
I don't want to get attached to someone who's not in it for the long haul, or who doesn't really care about me, or who sees me as a sex object, or who's going to do fucked up porny shit to me.
00:32:39
Speaker
I know that I can't handle that, right?
00:32:40
Speaker
So the purpose of the vetting is to make sure that he's not like that before I'm naked in bed with him.
00:32:45
Speaker
But weirdly enough, under liberal feminism, they use sex as a vetting strategy.
00:32:49
Speaker
They're like...
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I was actually just going to make that comment.
00:32:54
Speaker
I now remember where some of that came from.
00:32:56
Speaker
It was from sex therapists or sex educators, not even a real therapist.
00:33:01
Speaker
Like she's just a person with a column of people like Gigi Engel.
00:33:04
Speaker
And Gigi Engel had an article where she said that, oh, I have sex with men on the first date to see if we're sexually compatible because I don't want to waste my time.
00:33:12
Speaker
And I'm like, you don't know that guy.
00:33:14
Speaker
She's dumb.
00:33:15
Speaker
She's really dumb.
00:33:16
Speaker
She's done so much harm to women in the overall culture.
00:33:18
Speaker
And I really can't stand her as a person just watching her like smug nonsense.
00:33:23
Speaker
But there's been a lot of these like pro-sex, posi-sex, quote unquote, sex educators who literally made advice columns advising women to sleep with men early to test sexual compatibility as if there's not a million other ways to test sexual compatibility and intimacy before you have actual physical sex.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
Which we've now corrected by creating our own strategies, which I know we had an episode called... Pre-sexual compatibility tests, I think.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, pre-sexual compatibility test.
00:33:53
Speaker
We'll have more episodes around sex coming up.
00:33:57
Speaker
But yeah, that's, I mean, that's a corrective thing that we're doing now is like, because like the insane people like Gigi Engel and what's that other one?
00:34:04
Speaker
Carly Sirotino.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:06
Speaker
Fuck them on the first date to see if, you know, you don't want to waste your time.
00:34:09
Speaker
Like, oh my God, girl, like that's stupid.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
I feel like they get off on the shock value and a cavalcade of bad decisions.
00:34:19
Speaker
And then because they are the type of women who don't have any boundaries, they like to shame other women who have boundaries and seem like, I think they're just rewriting their narrative to seem empowered and progressive.
00:34:29
Speaker
Oh, the other thing is like the culture nowadays, like, although the rule says, or the lie, it says like three dates, there's this weird thing now in the past couple of years where it's almost seen as unreasonable, uh,
00:34:42
Speaker
to to wait even three like even three dates now is seen as unreasonable like you know if you're not willing to fuck them on the first date it's like what's wrong with you kind of thing oh are you a prude or like some guys like just have so much scrote audacity that they're like no fuck me before i take you on the date so that i know if you're the kind of woman yeah that's a red flag so that i know if you're the kind of woman i who i deem worthy of taking on a date like you know like so
00:35:05
Speaker
It's ridiculous.
00:35:06
Speaker
It's so stupid.
00:35:06
Speaker
Don't fall for it, ladies.
00:35:07
Speaker
They have everything, and they're still being even worse, right?
00:35:10
Speaker
So, I mean, not to bring up West End Caleb yet again, but that's, I mean, he's essentially the type of guy that thrives in this environment.
00:35:18
Speaker
Like, he can have sex with one woman the same and be texting another woman, like, the same night and going on dates the same day.
00:35:23
Speaker
And that's because...
00:35:25
Speaker
You haven't made it costly enough to go on each date for him to actually invest in each date.
00:35:28
Speaker
And also a lot of women are having sex with these guys before they really know them.
00:35:31
Speaker
So then they're finding out that he's a shitty person, which honestly you could have found out in just a couple more dates.
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
But since the pressure is to have sex very, very early, you're not getting the information you need to deem if he's worthy of your vagina.
00:35:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:35:45
Speaker
Understand your vagina is so valuable and it is like a gift.
00:35:50
Speaker
Like pussy is a gift to men.
00:35:51
Speaker
Understand the value and the power in that.
00:35:53
Speaker
I know that like liberal feminists like... Pussy is a privilege.
00:35:56
Speaker
It is a privilege.
00:35:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:57
Speaker
Weirdly enough, weirdly like liberal feminists like devalue...
00:36:01
Speaker
the value of women's, you know, sexuality.
00:36:04
Speaker
I really hate that.
00:36:05
Speaker
Understand that the greatest thing you can ever do to a guy is fuck him.
00:36:08
Speaker
So like the greatest thing that a man, the greatest thing that a man can ever experience
Racial Myths in Dating
00:36:14
Speaker
with a woman is sex.
00:36:14
Speaker
Like literally like in biology, like every single male of every single species, the entire reason why they exist and do what they do is to compete with each other to try and pass on their genes.
00:36:25
Speaker
Like they literally live their entire life to try to fuck.
00:36:27
Speaker
And yeah, like it's the same with humans.
00:36:29
Speaker
Like don't give that up too easily.
00:36:32
Speaker
yeah i'm like animals are pickier than humans are being encouraged it's embarrassing really it's it is honestly i'm like female animals don't fuck a lot of males right away sometimes they do but a lot of times like these guys have to do so like they have to try multiple times birds especially yeah
00:36:47
Speaker
If you look at peacocks, right, the male is like parading his ass out just to get the attention of women.
00:36:54
Speaker
He has to do all dance.
00:36:55
Speaker
Like the female peacock.
00:36:57
Speaker
And he still gets edged.
00:36:58
Speaker
Like, honestly, look up.
00:37:00
Speaker
Look up how many male birds get swerved after they, like Bowerbird.
00:37:04
Speaker
Look up Bowerbirds.
00:37:04
Speaker
And how they mate.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:07
Speaker
Even like the Japanese white eye bird, I follow these birds on Instagram.
00:37:11
Speaker
They're such cute little birds, but they're monogamous as well.
00:37:14
Speaker
So if they find a male that doesn't preen them, so basically like, I think they do like something with their feathers, which is preening.
00:37:21
Speaker
They go and find another bird to do it for them.
00:37:23
Speaker
who does a better job.
00:37:24
Speaker
And I'm just like, honestly, so many women could learn from Japanese white-eyed birds.
00:37:29
Speaker
Like there was this one, she was called Princess Beebe.
00:37:32
Speaker
She was an absolute queen.
00:37:33
Speaker
And she like dumped her boyfriend when he stopped like cleaning her properly for a younger bird who did it better.
00:37:39
Speaker
Number five, you go, girl.
00:37:42
Speaker
You go, girl.
00:37:43
Speaker
She literally dumped him.
00:37:45
Speaker
And they were all like, I mean, they were all raised by the same owner.
00:37:48
Speaker
So you literally saw like the dumped bird, like in the corner.
00:37:51
Speaker
And she was with her new boyfriend, like all snuggled up in bed.
00:37:54
Speaker
I was like, yes, you go, girl.
00:37:57
Speaker
This is the power men want to take away from you.
00:37:59
Speaker
Queen, even fucking birds get it.
00:38:02
Speaker
Like even birds get it.
00:38:04
Speaker
So there's no reason why we can't.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:07
Speaker
Or lie seven.
00:38:09
Speaker
Women of his own race are too demanding and feminist and masculine, and that's why he has to date outside of his race.
00:38:16
Speaker
So we just did an episode on that one.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:20
Speaker
Listen to our episode on racial fetishization because... And colorism.
00:38:24
Speaker
It's called Scamming in Solidarity, Colorism and Racial Fetishization, Combating Those Things.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
I mean...
00:38:33
Speaker
White men, they'll, like, kind of take me for granted.
00:38:35
Speaker
They won't, like, say this stuff to my face, but I see these kinds of narratives all the time on the internet about men complaining about white women or Western women being too demanding or too entitled or too feminist or whatever, and how they want to go to Asia or Eastern Europe to find a submissive trad wife.
00:38:50
Speaker
I mean, my own fucking father did that.
00:38:52
Speaker
Found an Asian woman half his age, less than half his age.
00:38:57
Speaker
She's only, like, a few years older than me.
00:38:58
Speaker
That's the fucked up thing.
00:38:59
Speaker
To...
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, like, because he thought she was going to be a submissive trad wife.
00:39:05
Speaker
And guess what?
00:39:07
Speaker
Turns out she's not.
00:39:07
Speaker
She's actually, he ended up getting a tiger woman instead.
00:39:10
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, good for her, honestly.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's enough said on that one.
00:39:17
Speaker
Cool.
00:39:17
Speaker
So listen to that episode, because we go into detail about racial fetishization.
00:39:21
Speaker
Eight, it doesn't matter when you have sex with a man.
00:39:23
Speaker
If he likes you, he'll treat you the same.
00:39:25
Speaker
So first of all, I will say that if a man is shitty to you because you had sex with him on the first date...
00:39:33
Speaker
guaranteed he's going to be shitty to you later, even if you make him wait.
00:39:37
Speaker
Um, because those kinds of men, they, um, they have the, the kind of like Madonna whore complex.
00:39:45
Speaker
Um, and even if he treats you well, um,
00:39:48
Speaker
He probably also treats other women badly, like who don't make him weight.
00:39:53
Speaker
Like these kinds of guys usually slut shamers and look down on women who he deems to be like too loose.
00:40:00
Speaker
And so I wouldn't, I personally would not want to date a man, even if he treats me well and respects me because I made him weight.
00:40:06
Speaker
If he doesn't respect other women, I wouldn't trust him.
Debunking Myths about Fidelity and Sexual Choices
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the guys that there's plenty of men that will treat you differently.
00:40:14
Speaker
And those are guys that you would want to weed out.
00:40:17
Speaker
But then there's also men who... There's ways of avoiding them without having sex with them.
00:40:21
Speaker
Like, this is another thing where, like, live fems be like, fuck them on the first date to see if he's the kind of guy to slut shame you.
00:40:27
Speaker
And it's like, there's other ways of vetting that.
00:40:29
Speaker
I don't understand why they do that.
00:40:30
Speaker
Why are they so, like... Self-destructive like that.
00:40:34
Speaker
Self-destructive and just, like, can't strategize to save their life.
00:40:37
Speaker
I feel like it's so easy to manipulate them.
00:40:41
Speaker
frustrating yeah and i can understand like we're young and like or like if you're young and you don't know any better but i'm talking to like the maybe maybe the older feminists are just pushed out that could be it they're not maybe they do know and they're not telling us no it's because the only stories that get publicized on like mainstream media are ones that suit the dominant narrative right so narrative that's true you know men who own these media companies they want women to put out sooner so they of course they use their entire fucking media company that they own to put out this kind of propaganda um
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:12
Speaker
And even if he's a good guy, sometimes having sex too soon can just create a sense of intimacy sooner than a person is ready for and really sooner than you should be ready for.
00:41:24
Speaker
Like the whole love at first sight thing and...
00:41:27
Speaker
it can work out right you can have sex he can actually genuinely like you and not necessarily be the type of guy to judge you but it could also create a false sense of intimacy when you don't actually know each other well and that could make a person want to pull back a little bit just because they want to establish getting really getting to know you um men like variety so it's okay if he has a wandering eye or flirts with other women it doesn't mean he doesn't respect you
00:41:53
Speaker
Mmm.
00:41:54
Speaker
We all like variety.
00:41:56
Speaker
Yeah, women like variety too, right?
00:41:58
Speaker
It's not an excuse.
00:42:00
Speaker
So, um, it's more, again, like, it's one thing for a man to notice that other women are attractive, but if he's, like, you know, eye-fucking women in public, or, you know, like, staring at a woman's boobs like some porn-sick nasty scrote, then he's probably...
00:42:15
Speaker
Or if he's following Instagram, if he's following Instagram Thashtraps, if he watches porn, all of that is bullshit.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's a sign of a bad character.
00:42:25
Speaker
So yeah, like that's that kind of behavior.
00:42:28
Speaker
It's like, it's not even about him not respecting you.
00:42:31
Speaker
It means he's not a respectful person in general, like towards women.
00:42:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:36
Speaker
And...
00:42:37
Speaker
You know, some men that I meet in real life, they do that thing where they, like, stare at my boobs or, like, stare at my ass when they think I'm not looking.
00:42:44
Speaker
And it just makes me really uncomfortable.
00:42:45
Speaker
It makes me feel like a piece of meat and a bunch of, like, hungry wolves are around me.
00:42:49
Speaker
You know, it just makes women uncomfortable.
00:42:51
Speaker
Most men who...
00:42:53
Speaker
Like, the men that I've met who are decent men, they're aware of that and they don't want women to feel uncomfortable.
00:42:58
Speaker
So they'll, like, avoid staring because they don't want her to feel like she's being, like, you know, she's being preyed on or he doesn't want her to be afraid.
00:43:06
Speaker
So, yeah, like, the kind of guy that checks out other women like that are shitty and they lack empathy for women.
00:43:13
Speaker
It's big kumar energy.
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:15
Speaker
It's one thing to see someone attractive.
00:43:16
Speaker
It's another thing to like legit be making them uncomfortable and disrespecting your girlfriend or wife in the process.
00:43:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:23
Speaker
And then the flirting with other women, that's also a red flag of like emotional cheating.
00:43:28
Speaker
And it's also like, I don't know if you've ever heard of like Dread Game, you know, Dread Game where the guy like pretends like, oh, you know, I can get other women like, you know,
00:43:37
Speaker
that kind of thing.
00:43:37
Speaker
Like some men will do this as a deliberate, like I consider it a form of emotional abuse where the man like pretends like he could be cheating or, you know, could get another woman as a way of making his partner feel devalued and less special.
00:43:50
Speaker
And so that she feels like, you know, anxious and eager to please him.
00:43:53
Speaker
I think that's like men who deliberately flirt with other women to make the partner feel insecure are also shitty men who aren't worth dating.
00:44:01
Speaker
So number 10,
00:44:03
Speaker
slutty girls never get good guys only perfect women get good men there's a lot of women really mad that that didn't turn out to be true yeah yeah they try to virtue signal and be like the wifey type so to speak and they'll be very very surprised when when they're not chosen over women who are quote unquote loose but this was but this was also peddled a lot to me growing up in a religious background um
00:44:28
Speaker
And I know quite a few people who felt really, I mean, they weren't, I mean, they didn't feel hard done by because ultimately I think there are drawbacks to just like sleeping around generally with men.
00:44:42
Speaker
But at the same time, they felt like they, they were robbed of the chance to explore their sexuality on their own terms.
00:44:51
Speaker
And yeah,
00:44:52
Speaker
You know, that's my only wish for women when it comes to sex.
00:44:55
Speaker
If you want to have a lot of sex, if you want to have, you know, no sex, that's absolutely fine.
00:44:59
Speaker
Just make sure that you're doing it on your own terms and not because you think if I sleep with him sooner, you know, he's going to stay with me.
00:45:06
Speaker
Similarly, just, I just hope that they also don't think that if I, you know, remain a virgin, I will get a really nice guy because then you're not making that choice whatsoever.
00:45:18
Speaker
for yourself you're actually making it for someone else all of all of these choices revolve around men the extremely promiscuous women as well as exactly exactly tightly controlled women they're two sides of the same narrative controlled by men right and we've done our best to try to highlight the areas in which there's women that they sleep around because they have low self-esteem and then yes sometimes it's hard for them to get in relationships or because they don't um
00:45:41
Speaker
or they're in relationships where they're treated terribly because they haven't established good boundaries.
00:45:45
Speaker
And we hope to like, you know, with FDS to help them avoid those kinds of things.
00:45:48
Speaker
But then there's the women that are just sitting around, like not playing the game at all and trying to virtue signal that they're going to be good virginal wives.
00:45:56
Speaker
And then they may get married and then those guys exploit them.
00:45:59
Speaker
And the other was a lot of trad wives that find out that, Oh, I'm the virginal wife.
00:46:04
Speaker
And then he's got like a mistress on the side that, you know, they do the whole Madonna horse split.
00:46:08
Speaker
So anytime you're not having sex in your own terms, vetting men to create beneficial sexual encounters for yourself, then you are not approaching sex effectively to get what you want.
Empowering Women in Relationships
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah, I see a lot of disappointed women on trad Twitter who are angry that trad men don't really seem to be into them.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:31
Speaker
Like they like men, you know, trad men will criticize women for being too loose or for wearing makeup or for doing this and this.
00:46:37
Speaker
But those are the women that they chase.
00:46:39
Speaker
Right.
00:46:39
Speaker
Like they'll exactly like trad women are mad that the men that they're into, the trad men chase the quote unquote thoughts.
00:46:46
Speaker
Didn't Tammy Loren go off on that?
00:46:48
Speaker
Tommy Loren went off on that, like in a pretty infamous Facebook rant where she was talking about, like, I'm tired of them passing up good women for all these thoughts.
00:46:56
Speaker
And it's like, you don't understand what's going on here yet.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:00
Speaker
It's like she's still blaming the thoughts and then seeing she thinking she can reason with these guys not to chase them.
00:47:05
Speaker
Like, that's not that's not how this works.
00:47:07
Speaker
Like, the thing is, you have to completely not give a fuck what men think and operate as what's best for you.
00:47:13
Speaker
They'll fall in line because they don't have a choice.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:16
Speaker
hold the fucking line that's the thing like more women need to be like on code and hold the line and stop uh you know attacking other women or blaming other women for men's shitty behavior because first of all it's not going to change anything the problem is with men's shitty behavior not with other women um and secondly yeah you're not holding them accountable like if you make it more difficult for them to be fuck boys then they're not going to be fuck boys
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:42
Speaker
Make it not worth it for them.
00:47:44
Speaker
I know this is an oft requested episode and the types of values that I learned.
00:47:49
Speaker
And a lot of other people learned coming from religious backgrounds and how that fucked us up.
00:47:53
Speaker
So this is, this is part of the ways in which women self-sabotage, um, who come from a tribe background.
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:59
Speaker
Lie number 11.
00:48:00
Speaker
If you don't have sex right away with a high value man, you'll lose him because what you won't do, another girl will.
00:48:06
Speaker
I am so tired of this.
00:48:07
Speaker
This is like definitely like abuelita type advice.
00:48:10
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
I don't get it.
00:48:16
Speaker
What?
00:48:16
Speaker
Like old women in your family.
00:48:17
Speaker
Like if you don't do it, another, another woman will, if you don't fix your man a plate, another woman will, you know, they're always doing that thing where they shame younger women in the family to doing all these service tasks.
00:48:28
Speaker
And then.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:29
Speaker
Damn.
00:48:29
Speaker
My grandma would never tell me to fuck a guy soon.
00:48:32
Speaker
If you don't fuck your man, cubs in faith, though, you know, they, it's always like, uh, and first, or at least, at least the way that it's been forced to me has come from other women.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:40
Speaker
It's a very pick-me logic.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's like, if you won't do that for him, another woman will.
00:48:44
Speaker
The implication being like, me, I'll be the other woman.
00:48:47
Speaker
And the manosphere ran with this, right?
00:48:48
Speaker
So they're like, that's why they don't want women to prolong having sex longer than three dates.
00:48:53
Speaker
Because they're like, oh, if he's a high-value man with lots of options, then why would he sit around and wait for sex for you?
00:48:58
Speaker
And it's like, well...
00:49:00
Speaker
Again, it's a different definition of high value because men define high value as like someone who's really hot and can treat women like shit and has a ton of sexual partners.
00:49:08
Speaker
That's not someone that I would consider high value.
00:49:12
Speaker
A high value man.
00:49:13
Speaker
And if he dumps you because you didn't have sex with him, then by definition, he's not high value.
00:49:17
Speaker
He didn't like you.
00:49:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:18
Speaker
He didn't like you.
00:49:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:21
Speaker
Like if a guy's willing to have sex with another girl because I won't or dumps me because I didn't put out fast enough, then he's not high value.
00:49:27
Speaker
Like automatically.
00:49:28
Speaker
He's self-disqualified.
00:49:30
Speaker
sometimes the trash takes itself out.
00:49:32
Speaker
And I think a lot of these guys, especially because we talk about, we've talked about, I don't actually, did we talk about on this podcast?
00:49:39
Speaker
We talked about athletes or like other guys that people would perceive to be high value men and the difference between like how they treat women they're interested in versus like the cavalcade of women that they can have sex with.
00:49:50
Speaker
Like you're going to be doing the exact same thing.
00:49:52
Speaker
All the rest of the women who are having, trying to have sex with them are doing, which is like putting out really soon, hoping it'll hook him and it won't.
00:49:58
Speaker
Right.
00:49:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:59
Speaker
Because there's all these other women doing that.
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:01
Speaker
And so often you'll see these guys, they'll get with women that weren't doing it.
00:50:04
Speaker
They've been chasing, right?
00:50:06
Speaker
They're the ones that reached out to them on Instagram or they're women that they knew from high school or something like that or college that they went to the league with.
00:50:13
Speaker
So it's women they already built a relationship with.
00:50:15
Speaker
And generally, it's them still putting in the effort to talk to the women that they eventually end up in relationships with.
00:50:22
Speaker
So believe it or not,
00:50:24
Speaker
even with like the, these guys that still have a lot of sexual options, they don't inherently respect those options more than the women who wait.
00:50:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:33
Speaker
But it's really hard to tell that on the outside because you think, well, why would I wait?
00:50:36
Speaker
You know, why would he wait for me, et cetera, et cetera.
00:50:38
Speaker
But no, it's like the guys, if they want a woman, they will wait for her.
00:50:42
Speaker
That's just the way every man is like that.
00:50:44
Speaker
I actually want to tell a personal experience about this.
00:50:46
Speaker
So some men, not only will they wait more than three dates, the guy I'm seeing right now, we're kind of like,
00:50:52
Speaker
It's not like officially, but we're kind of like, we've been on dates and stuff.
00:50:57
Speaker
He's actually been my friend for three years.
00:50:59
Speaker
We used to be work rivals originally, but then we became friends.
00:51:04
Speaker
So it's like enemies to friends to lovers story.
00:51:07
Speaker
I don't know.
00:51:07
Speaker
But no, like we've known each other for three years.
00:51:09
Speaker
I know this guy's been in love with me for three years.
00:51:12
Speaker
And we didn't get together because like either I'd be in a relationship or he'd be in a relationship or, you know,
00:51:18
Speaker
We were working together originally and stuff.
00:51:20
Speaker
So, yeah, but the men who are like really, really, really, really into you, they will wait three years.
00:51:27
Speaker
And for me, there's nothing more than, to me, there's nothing, there's no greater feeling than being with someone who loves you more than you love them.
00:51:37
Speaker
Like, I do like him.
00:51:38
Speaker
Like, he's a good man.
00:51:39
Speaker
He's a good guy.
00:51:40
Speaker
He is.
00:51:40
Speaker
He's my friend.
00:51:42
Speaker
But I like that he's like really in love with me.
00:51:44
Speaker
I just, I just makes me feel good.
00:51:46
Speaker
You know, it makes me feel safe.
00:51:49
Speaker
I don't like the feeling of like, you know, feeling like, oh, I have to put out with him soon.
00:51:54
Speaker
So that in order for him to like me, because that implies like that you like him more than you, than he likes you.
00:51:59
Speaker
And I don't like that.
00:52:00
Speaker
I don't like feeling like I don't have as much power in the relationship.
Realistic Expectations about Virginity
00:52:04
Speaker
So number 12, and this is the last one we'll do before, this is going to be a three-part series, but this is the last one for this episode, which is line number 12, losing your virginity is a magical experience that will change your life forever.
00:52:18
Speaker
This is, again, I think a myth perpetuated by trad culture, and it's a way to get women.
00:52:24
Speaker
Yeah, and religion.
00:52:25
Speaker
Basically.
00:52:26
Speaker
control their sexuality so that they're nice virginal wives for their future husbands and the entire cult around preserving virginity.
00:52:35
Speaker
I was one of those people that grew up in the like purity ball era and the, you know, the purity ring era.
00:52:41
Speaker
So I am into...
00:52:44
Speaker
Oh, Lord.
00:52:44
Speaker
It was like the most... I didn't go because me and my dad don't have that great a relationship.
00:52:48
Speaker
But it was basically... It was like a daddy-daughter dance.
00:52:52
Speaker
And what would... What?
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:54
Speaker
What would happen is... What?
00:52:56
Speaker
The father... Well, it's kind of cute, but kind of creepy at the same time where the father would vow to protect his daughter until she was ready.
00:53:04
Speaker
He was ready to give her away in marriage when she got older.
00:53:07
Speaker
So it was like a daddy-daughter dance and they would have them...
00:53:10
Speaker
when they're really young and the idea was to like pledge your allegiance to protecting your daughter's innocence and then your daughter would like pledge to protect her innocence for her dad yeah it's that's kind of gross i'm gonna stay a virgin for my dad it's like weirdly incestuous they didn't it wasn't that explicit because they were sometimes dealing with young kids um because sometimes the girls would be young but like that was the subtext there that like their dad was protecting their femininity you know for their future you know
00:53:38
Speaker
Basically, and then also like their dad would take them out on a date and like a night.
00:53:41
Speaker
It was almost like a daddy daughter prom.
00:53:44
Speaker
And the idea is that you would treat your daughter really well so that if a guy came into their life, then they would have to treat them just as well.
00:53:49
Speaker
And he's going to protect her and make sure he's always treated well.
00:53:51
Speaker
So like there was like, it was kind of good stuff with a bunch of super weird Christian stuff and a bunch of really creepy patriarchal shit, right?
00:53:58
Speaker
About men owning women's sexuality.
00:54:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:54:04
Speaker
So then what happens is they hype it up so much that, I mean, when I first had sex, it was fine.
00:54:09
Speaker
But it was, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:54:11
Speaker
Like, were you just like, yeah, that wasn't nearly as big of a deal as people try to make it.
00:54:17
Speaker
It wasn't, it was like I had sex.
00:54:19
Speaker
The first guy I had sex with was a guy I was in a relationship with and I was in love with him.
00:54:22
Speaker
But it wasn't like this magical experience.
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:25
Speaker
Like, I remember forever, you know?
00:54:27
Speaker
Like, it happened, and it was not great the first time, because I didn't know what I was doing.
00:54:32
Speaker
My first time was actually incredibly awkward, and I low-key, like, ugh.
00:54:37
Speaker
Like, it's one of those, like, embarrassing thoughts that keeps me up at night.
00:54:40
Speaker
You know, like, when you're lying in bed, and you'll just randomly have, like, a cringey memory?
00:54:44
Speaker
That's one of those... Like, losing my virginity is one of those cringey memories.
00:54:46
Speaker
So, I mean, I kind of sympathize with women who want it to be special, who want to wait.
00:54:51
Speaker
Because if your first experience is bad, then...
00:54:55
Speaker
that's also going to be unpleasant.
00:54:59
Speaker
But I don't... I waited and it was still not great because I still didn't know how to communicate anything sexually.
00:55:05
Speaker
So, like, it kind of sucks because I did wait to a person who I was in love with and thought this would be great.
00:55:09
Speaker
And then we had sex and I felt... I didn't even know how to feel.
00:55:13
Speaker
I just felt kind of empty almost because I was like, well, this didn't live up to the hype.
00:55:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:17
Speaker
Right.
00:55:17
Speaker
So it's almost... Yeah.
00:55:18
Speaker
It's the hype that's the problem, though, right?
00:55:21
Speaker
So... The hype and then the lack of...
00:55:25
Speaker
teaching women how to vet men sexually and then how to communicate sexual boundaries in a way that makes sense.
00:55:30
Speaker
Like I had no clue.
00:55:31
Speaker
So like that has, that's the language that we're missing about how to go from virgin to non-virgin and how do you,
00:55:40
Speaker
prep yourself for that.
00:55:41
Speaker
Like there's, I remember we had a Twitter space with an older feminist woman who was talking about like in the seventies to talk about erogenous zones and then like the kinds of things to do to really like get your, like things that get wet, like your cervix is high up.
00:55:52
Speaker
So it's not as painful.
00:55:53
Speaker
Like there's so many things to do.
00:55:55
Speaker
Did absolutely none of that my first time.
00:55:56
Speaker
So it was sort of painful.
00:55:58
Speaker
And so like, it wasn't traumatic.
00:56:00
Speaker
I don't feel like my boyfriend is trying to hurt me or anything, but it just like, it just wasn't good.
00:56:04
Speaker
And it felt like low key, like, Oh, okay.
00:56:06
Speaker
I just physically feel a little bit,
00:56:08
Speaker
Like icky.
00:56:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:09
Speaker
You know?
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:11
Speaker
I don't know how to explain it.
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:12
Speaker
I think we almost need to be more honest about like the fact that the first time you have sex is probably not going to be magical.
00:56:19
Speaker
I mean, I, I want to teach women like, um, the problem with this myth is that it implies that like the, the first time you have sex is going to be like inherently magical, um,
00:56:30
Speaker
But you almost have to create that sexual experience for yourself.
00:56:34
Speaker
Like, we need to be more honest with girls that a lot of sexual experiences are bad, you know?
00:56:41
Speaker
And here's some reasons why it might be bad.
00:56:44
Speaker
And here's some ways that you can avoid a bad experience, right?
00:56:47
Speaker
So I do feel like we need to be more honest with girls before losing, you know, before they lose their virginity, like,
00:56:53
Speaker
You know, it can be a good experience, but, you know, there are steps to make sure that it's not a bad experience.
00:56:59
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:57:00
Speaker
I feel like not only are women faking orgasms, they're faking sex stories about their virginity.
00:57:06
Speaker
That's like, that's what I sometimes feel happens in media where...
00:57:10
Speaker
You don't want to say it was bad or you want to like kind of hype it up like, oh, I did this and this happened.
00:57:15
Speaker
So you feel like you're more in control of the situation.
00:57:17
Speaker
But then if a bunch of women aren't being honest, then we're not actually getting good sex that we deserve like the first time out, right?
00:57:25
Speaker
Like you want to build up to that kind of thing.
00:57:28
Speaker
So yeah, so FDS is fighting to create the language so that we can hopefully not have...
Conclusion & Call to Action
00:57:33
Speaker
next generation of women don't suffer from this stuff.
00:57:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's the goal of FDS is we're trying to educate the next generation of women such that their first sexual experiences are not traumatic.
00:57:41
Speaker
And enjoyable.
00:57:42
Speaker
Not even traumatic is the low bar.
00:57:44
Speaker
Like, we want it to be good.
00:57:45
Speaker
Yeah, like, like the rule says losing your virginity is a magical experience.
00:57:50
Speaker
First of all, I want to say on the change your life forever.
00:57:51
Speaker
First of all, like men are not important.
00:57:53
Speaker
Like their dick is not important to change who a woman is.
00:57:56
Speaker
Right?
00:57:57
Speaker
It's not.
00:57:58
Speaker
So first of all, secondly, like I would actually like it if we could get to a place where a woman losing her virginity is a magical experience and isn't like either traumatic or boring by teaching women.
00:58:10
Speaker
Just straight shit.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:58:13
Speaker
Like that's, that's not how things are right now, but we'd like it to get there kind of thing.
00:58:18
Speaker
We're not there yet, but we will.
00:58:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:21
Speaker
So that's part one on our three-part series of the 37 lies you were taught about men.
00:58:28
Speaker
So we'll do part two and part three in the next couple of months.
00:58:32
Speaker
So we can go over some of these concepts and we're going to continue to record episodes on these individual concepts in more depth.
00:58:39
Speaker
So stay tuned for that.
00:58:41
Speaker
That's our show.
00:58:42
Speaker
Check us out at fem.strat on Twitter.com.
00:58:46
Speaker
Also, Jen, our Instagram.
00:58:47
Speaker
We're trying to do an Instagram push here.
00:58:49
Speaker
Instagram at underscore the female dating strategy.
00:58:53
Speaker
Also, our Patreon weekly bonus content.
00:58:56
Speaker
There's a Discord.
00:58:57
Speaker
You can also, if you're a man who's listening to this and you don't like, you don't believe, if you don't believe that we're correctly outlining the lies that you guys are telling, then tell us all about it on our Scrooge Strike Back tier on Patreon.
00:59:10
Speaker
That's patreon.com forward slash female dating strategy.
00:59:14
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens, and for all you scrotes out there.
00:59:18
Speaker
Stop the lies.
00:59:20
Speaker
Dime out.