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Sustainable Excellence – a conversation with author Terry Tucker
22 Plays13 days ago
Terry Tucker has had a varied career. From college scholarship basketball player, to marketing executive, to police hostage negotiator and school safety advisor, he has certainly been there and done it.
Most recently he has been battling a rare cancer. That is the sort of life event that forces you into a reflective learning mode. Unlike most people Terry has distilled his reflective learning into ten principles for leading an uncommon and extraordinary life and created a book
.Sustainable Excellence: 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life,
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds, Terry describes to host Michael Millward the ten principles. They discuss the how these ten principles to help people to create their best life.
As Michael and Terry share their experiences of life and some of their favourite quotations they are learning from each other just as much as the listener will be learning from them.
You will undoubtedly leave this programme feeling confident in how to deal with internal and external doubters and inspired to work on your own life.
More information about Terry and Michael is available from Abeceder.co.uk
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, Zencastr really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
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Terry is candid about the health challenges he and his family have faced.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Independent Minds' Podcast & Zencastr
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencastr Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:22
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysida. As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr.
00:00:34
Speaker
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can create your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Amazon and Google.
00:00:47
Speaker
It really does make creating content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using zencastr visit Zencaster, visit zencaster.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida.
00:01:00
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for creating podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:16
Speaker
Very importantly, in this episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Meet Terry Tucker: Background and Career Journey
00:01:25
Speaker
Today, my guest Independent Mind, who I met on Matchmaker.fm, is Terry Tucker, the author of Sustainable Excellence, 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.
00:01:42
Speaker
Terry is based in Denver, Colorado, USA, the Mile High City. I have never been, but I have seen it in the television series Dynasty, or if you're in from North America, Dynasty.
00:01:55
Speaker
If you are going to go to Denver, I would book my travel at the Ultimate Travel Club. It is where I get trade prices on flights and hotels, etc.
00:02:06
Speaker
You'll find a link and a membership discount code in the description. now hello terry hello michael thanks for having me on i'm really looking forward to talking with you today i'm looking forward to it as well think it's going to be very interesting investigating this uncommon and extraordinary life but please could we start by you telling us a little bit about your backstory and how you came to write this book Sure. So I was born and raised on the south side of Chicago, one of the larger cities here in the United States. I am the oldest of three boys.
00:02:43
Speaker
You can't tell this from my voice, but I'm six foot eight inches tall and actually went to college. Oh, Terry, Terry. Yeah, Terry, you can tell that you have a very tall voice. It's very long, right? Very long.
00:03:01
Speaker
Well, fortunately, you're six foot eight inches tall. And of course, in in North America, that i gives you opportunities to go to college on a basketball scholarship.
00:03:14
Speaker
That's exactly what it did. And I was very fortunate to do that. I was the first person in my family to graduate from college. So I moved home to find a job. This is long before the Internet was available to help people find employment.
00:03:29
Speaker
And I did find that first job in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's International, the the fast food, the hamburger chain, in their marketing department. That was the good news. The bad news was I ended up living with my parents for the next three and a half years as I helped my mother care for my father and my grandmother, who were both dying of different forms of cancer.
00:03:51
Speaker
Professionally, as I said, started out at Wendy's, and then I went to work for the hospital that cared for my father and my grandmother. And then in my 30s, I made a major pivot in my life and became a police officer. And one of the jobs I had during my law enforcement career was I was a SWAT hostage negotiator.
00:04:10
Speaker
After that, I started a school security consulting business. I coached girls high school basketball. But for the last 12 years now, I have been battling a rare form of cancer, a rare form of melanoma.
Family, Marriage, and Inspiration for 'Sustainable Excellence'
00:04:23
Speaker
And then finally, my wife and I have been married for 30 years. We have one child, a daughter, who's a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and is an officer in the new branch of the military here in the United States, the Space Force. Ooh.
00:04:38
Speaker
So your daughter is like a Top Gun type person. Well, what she tells me is, Dad, I fly satellites. So ah from the ground, she flies satellites that are in space. That's what she does.
00:04:51
Speaker
I never even imagined any anybody he did that, to be honest with you. it's like I know. You think you just put them up there and they just kind of hang out, yeah you know? But no, you you position them and move them and all kinds of stuff. Wow.
00:05:03
Speaker
Well, maybe we should be talking to your daughter then. That sounds really interesting. Yeah. more interesting than me probably yes so oh i'm sure not i'm sure not uh so the the sort of the catalyst for you writing the book which is called sustainable excellence 10 principles to leading your uncommon and extraordinary life can continued is this mixture of having to deal with adversities in terms of Various different family members having cancer, your own cancer journey, and also all the different experiences that you've had in what has been yeah quite a varied career, going from marketing burgers to SWOT team negotiator.
00:05:47
Speaker
It's quite a quiet shift, you at different ends of the the spectrum, so to speak. it It really is. And and if you i didn't give you the backstory, but I will now. My my grandfather, my paternal grandfather, was a Chicago police officer from 1924 1954.
00:06:05
Speaker
to nineteen fifty four and was actually shot in the line of duty with his own gun. It was not a serious injury, it was shot in the ankle. But my dad, who was an infant at the time, remembered the stories growing up that my grandmother used to tell of that knock on the door of, Mrs. Tucker, grab your son, come with us, your husband's been shot.
00:06:26
Speaker
So when I expressed an interest in following in my grandfather's footsteps, my dad was absolutely not. You're going to college. You're going to major in business. You're going to get out, get a great job, get married, have 2.4 kids and live happily ever after.
00:06:40
Speaker
But that's the life my father wanted me to live. That's not the life I felt that I was supposed to live. So I had a choice when I graduated from college. As I mentioned, my father was dying of cancer.
00:06:52
Speaker
I could have said, hey, dad, I know you're dying. Sorry, I'm going to go blaze my own trail and do what I feel I'm supposed to do. Or out of love and respect for you, and will do what you want me to do.
00:07:04
Speaker
So understanding that backstory, my resume looks a little bit more understandable, not like a Super Bowl went off in the room kind of thing all over the place. I went to work in business because that's what my dad wanted me to do.
Exploring 'Sustainable Excellence': Principles and Lessons
00:07:17
Speaker
And I sort of joke, I did what every good son did. I waited until my father passed away and then I followed my own dreams. And Michael, that's one thing I'm really, really proud of.
00:07:28
Speaker
And I don't mean to sound conceited, but you know i i never let my purpose. I never let my dream die. And I was a 37-year-old rookie police officer, which by most accounts is pretty old to be getting into that line of work.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yes, but it's important that if it was your dream, then you actually followed your dream and achieved it. You lived your dream, which is, like you say, something to be proud of. And I'm sure eventually your father would have been proud of you as well.
00:07:58
Speaker
But That then led, to you as you've gone on various different journeys, you've you've created this book with a very long title, Sustainable Excellence, 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.
00:08:12
Speaker
And it's got in the title that it has 10 principles. So yeah because they're 10 principles, they're in a book, they're in an order in the book, but there isn't really an order that in which they need to be done.
00:08:27
Speaker
No, there really isn't. I mean, I don't think number one is any more important than number seven. i will go out on a limb and say that maybe number 10 is the most important one.
00:08:40
Speaker
But we'll we'll let the listeners decide if that's. Before we do that, what are the 10 principles in the book? Can you can you just list them out for us? Sure.
00:08:51
Speaker
So principle number one, enjoy your life. Principle number two, most people think with their fears and their insecurities instead of using their minds.
00:09:04
Speaker
Principle number three, you were born to live an uncommon and extraordinary life. Principle number four, always remain curious and ask questions.
00:09:17
Speaker
Principle number five, you are the person you're looking to become. Principle number six, put your God and your family before everything else.
00:09:30
Speaker
Principle number seven, be part of something that's bigger than yourself. Principle number eight, fail often, especially when you are young.
00:09:43
Speaker
Principle number nine, listen more than you talk. And principle number 10, love is the most important word in any language.
00:09:56
Speaker
Even just listening to the list, there are lots of things in there that get you thinking. They really get you thinking. But when you look at a list like that, you start to think, well, okay, I don't do much of that.
00:10:09
Speaker
I do do some of that. Which of the principles do you think most people find easiest to actually use as their starting point for doing all 10? Which is the easiest one to start with, do you think?
00:10:22
Speaker
I'm going to say number eight, which is fail often, especially when you're young. ah We don't like to fail. we We somehow think that it's a negative. And I'm reminded of the quote from Nelson Mandela, the former president of South Africa, who said, i never lose.
00:10:40
Speaker
I either win or I learn. And if you can take failure and And we, I mean, we can all fail. It's pretty easy, you know, to fail. If we can take that failure and learn from it,
00:10:54
Speaker
then that's a good thing. And for some reason, what especially when I talk to younger people, they seem somehow to think that people that would be successful, whether it's athletes or musicians or whoever it is, doctors, teachers, whatever, somehow got to the top of the mountain without ever failing, without ever making mistakes.
00:11:14
Speaker
And I always tell them the the road to success is paved with failure. But as long as you learn As long as you grow from the mistakes that you make, you'll never be a failure in life. You may lose, but you won't be a loser as long as you take what you learn and apply it to the next venture that you decide you want to do.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yes, it's very true, I think. Nowadays, media, social media, televisions, newspapers, all sorts of things, describe people as overnight successes and forget that they've spent the last 10, 15 years learning their craft.
00:11:53
Speaker
whatever it is and actually when you think that they're an oversight night success it's only that they've been receiving the media coverage overnight there's been many years of practice and getting it wrong failing you fail in the shadows so you can come out into the light and be excellent to to succeed i think is a good way of thinking about it but you're quite right Mr. Mandela was right with his quotation, right with what he said, as he was with so many other things as well.
00:12:26
Speaker
but Absolutely. Yeah. But you know, if at the other end of the spectrum, which one do you think most people will find difficult?
00:12:34
Speaker
I would say number two. and And number two is the one that, you know, wrote all 10 of them, but it's the one that resonates with me. It's the one I kind of gravitate to.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I'm sort of embarrassed to say that because I've done it. I've done it several times in my life. Remind us what number two is. Sure. Most people think with their fears and their insecurities instead of using their minds.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I know I've done that. It's like, oh, I want to start this project. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe i don't have enough information. Oh, maybe I'm not smart enough. What will people think about me if I fail? That's thinking with our fears and their insecurities.
00:13:13
Speaker
That's not thinking with our minds. And again, I'll go back to sort of the younger people that I that i speak to. i always tell them, if there's something in your heart, something in your soul that you believe you're supposed to do, but it scares you, go ahead and do it.
00:13:32
Speaker
Because at the end of your life, the things you're going to regret are not going to be those things you did before. they're gonna be those things you didn't do. And by then it's going to be too late to go back and do This is true.
00:13:44
Speaker
And listening to you explain that principle, one of the things that comes to my mind is that the reason why we very often don't do something is not necessarily because we know that we can't do it.
00:13:58
Speaker
It's because we've listened to other people tell us negative things about it, or we worry about people saying something negative about us because we are doing something that we want to do, that we are capable of doing. It's like you have to switch off all of the negativity.
00:14:17
Speaker
Because s and if someone says something negative to you, the chances are that you will repeat that to yourself 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 times and multiply your chances of believing it, whereas actually they've said it because they resent your ability to achieve something that they can't do.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, most people who are going to criticize you have never even tried the things that you failed at. So why would you listen to those folks? But I understand
Personal Insights and Life Philosophy
00:14:49
Speaker
why. and And we have these devices now that allow you to send these messages, whether they're critical or whether they're positive, whatever they are.
00:14:57
Speaker
And we tend to live and die by those messages. There's a there's an excellent book called Do Hard Things. It's written by a man by the name of Steve Magnus. And he tells the story in the book about he he was Magnus was the track and field coach at the University of Minnesota here in the United States.
00:15:17
Speaker
And he talks about a research project that was done at the university where these two professors took students, so younger people, and put them in a room.
00:15:27
Speaker
The only thing in the room was a table and a chair. They were not allowed to have any devices and any even earbuds, nothing, nothing in the room, table and chair. Going to stay in this room for 20 minutes, 20 minutes.
00:15:40
Speaker
The only other thing in the room was a buzzer. And if you press the buzzer, you received an electric shock.
00:15:49
Speaker
68% of the men and 25% of the women shocked themselves, including one guy who shocked himself on average every five seconds, which told them,
00:16:01
Speaker
People are not comfortable in their own skin. They're comfortable based on what other people say about them on these devices. And when I read that, i thought I am not in that category, but I spend five or 10 minutes every day disconnected.
00:16:16
Speaker
Just no devices, sitting in a chair, not necessarily praying or meditating, letting my mind go wherever it goes because you need to be comfortable with yourself before you can be comfortable with anything else in your life.
00:16:29
Speaker
That's very true, very true. And in that sort of spirit, which of the principles that you've had feedback about, it seems to be the one that people are saying, focusing on that principle had the biggest impact on me?
00:16:47
Speaker
It's interesting, it's it's principle number seven, which is be part of something that's bigger than yourself. And I know from my perspective, I learned i learned this being part of team sports.
00:17:02
Speaker
And I think it can be whatever team you're on. We're all part of it a team in some form or another. But I started playing basketball when I was nine years old and played all the way up until I graduated from college when I was 21. And what team sports taught me is that The importance of being part of something that's bigger than yourself. You realize on a team that if you don't do your job, not only do you let yourself down, but you let your teammates down, your coaches down, your fans down, et cetera.
00:17:30
Speaker
And if you think about it, Michael, the biggest team game we all play is this game of life. So understanding that we are not disconnected, I think if COVID taught us anything, it's how much we need each other.
00:17:44
Speaker
You know, during COVID, you saw alcoholism rates go up, drug abuse rates go up, divorce rates go up. We need each other. We're much better together than we are separately.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yes, we're very much ah social beings, very much social beings. You also talk in the book about hoping to help people lead a life of significance as well as a life of success.
00:18:09
Speaker
That's a sentence that sort of flows off the tongue very easily, but I think it's a really powerful set of words. But what do you mean by, well, ah life a life of success, we can all measure Our success, it sounds very tangible that and we'll have success, a house, a car, money in the bank, holidays, fancy clothes, watches, whatever it is.
00:18:36
Speaker
But a life of significance is so quite an expression to use. What do you mean by a life of significance? Yeah, success is, like you just said, it's what we do for us. And we define success in our own lives, what what that looks like for us.
00:18:54
Speaker
Significance is what we do for other people. Now, don't get me wrong. I think you can be both. I think you can be successful and significance. I think the book I wrote, Sustainable Excellence, is a book about success.
00:19:08
Speaker
I'm writing another book now that's more about significance, how you can have an impact on somebody else's life. There was a ah a relatively famous ah childhood, not childhood, how do I always say, man by the name of Mr. Rogers, Fred Rogers, and he was on public television and educated so many young children, including myself growing up.
00:19:33
Speaker
When he died in 2003, his family was going through his effects and they found his wallet. And inside his wallet was a scrap piece of paper on which Mr. Rogers had written four simple words.
00:19:49
Speaker
Life is for service. Our lives should be about what we give, not what we get. And, Michael, I've seen so many people that they look at like, you know, they were born empty.
00:20:04
Speaker
And that once they get out of school and they get into life, that they feel then their job that will make them happy, that will make them fulfilled is to fill themselves up. You know, I've got to get a great education. I've got to get a great job, make a lot of money, drive the light nicest car, live in the nicest home, have all the latest gear.
00:20:21
Speaker
And somehow they think that's going to make them happy. And what I found is it's just the opposite. We're not born empty. We're born full. We're born with everything we need to be successful already inside of us.
00:20:36
Speaker
We just need to pull it out and use it for our benefit. So our job should not be to fill ourselves up. Our job in life should be to empty ourselves out, certainly for the betterment of ourselves, but also for the betterment of our family, of our friends, our our communities, of our country.
00:20:54
Speaker
And if you look at life that way, it becomes something that you become a significant individual by the fact that you are giving of yourself to other people.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yes, I can see what you mean. I think the the four words in the wallet, life is for giving, it's ah you usually hear that expression as life is for living, which is like I'm going to live my life.
00:21:26
Speaker
Whereas, like you say, you develop a significant life by giving, by thinking of other people and doing things which are going to help you, but also help other people.
00:21:39
Speaker
A world without selfishness is a is a great place to be, I suppose. There is one other thing that you mentioned in your book, which is creating a foundation of and unshakable beliefs and dedicated behaviors to reinforce your attitude.
00:21:58
Speaker
no matter how much pain you must endure or how many obstacles you must overcome. And I'm thinking that's where you're talking about the mindset, the attitudes, the having the right messages inside your head that equip you to deal with whatever comes at you, whatever is thrown at you.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, mindset is really everything. Your mind controls things. your your body. It controls where you go. It controls, I'm going to do this. Oh, I'm too scared. No, I'm not. I'm not going to do this.
00:22:33
Speaker
it It's constantly going. It's constantly going. And it it operates at a speed of about a thousand words a minute and produces enough energy to light 25 watt light bulb.
00:22:46
Speaker
why like that Every single one of us has that inside of us. And really what I'm talking about there is the whole the character, the humility,
00:22:58
Speaker
the the Never give up attitude. I remember I was had a job interview. It was a marketing for marketing job. And I was meeting with the senior vice president of marketing. And we talked for an hour and a half.
00:23:11
Speaker
And during that hour and a half, he never asked me one question about marketing or business. He asked me all kinds of questions about my life up until I was about 20 years old, 21 years old.
00:23:23
Speaker
And after the interview, I had to ask him. It was the strangest interview I'd ever had. I said to him, I've got to ask you this question. This was the most interesting interview I've had. Why did you not ask me any questions about marketing or business?
00:23:37
Speaker
And his response was interesting. He said, I've got plenty of people around me that will tell me whether you're a good fit for this team, whether you understand marketing, whether we agree in principle on business and things like that.
00:23:49
Speaker
He said, but what I'm looking to do is develop or or to hire people of character. And he says, I believe character is developed in the first 20 years of your life.
00:24:01
Speaker
Character, he said, is caught, not taught. So you're not going to read a book and say, OK, I'm a person of good character now. No, you're going to watch people. You're going to say, oh, I really like the way she handled that.
00:24:14
Speaker
Or, you know what? Ah, boy, I didn't really like the way he took care of that situation. And you're going to develop your character. You're going to develop that that inner dialogue that we all have. And whether we like to admit it or not, we talk to ourselves all the time.
00:24:28
Speaker
The most important conversations we have are with ourselves. ah you're absolutely right. but that's But that's what's important. What are you saying to yourself?
00:24:39
Speaker
Because your brain doesn't know the difference whether you're on vacation in Tahiti or you're thinking about being on vacation in Tahiti. It just knows what what you're putting in. So never, ever, ever talk badly about yourself to yourself.
00:24:54
Speaker
Understand that you can handle anything in your life, anything. I am a perfect example of it. If you just believe in your heart and try one day at a time to live the best life you possibly can.
Episode Conclusion: Reflections and Farewell
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah. Wise words, Terry, wise words. Thank you very much for sharing some information about what is a fascinating book.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, fascinating book. And for helping me to create what I hope has been a significant episode of The Independent Minds. Thank you very much. Well, Michael, thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, likewise, likewise. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind Terry Tucker, the author of Sustainable Excellence, 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.
00:25:51
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. The description also includes links to Sustainable Excellence 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.
00:26:09
Speaker
I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Terry. If you are a podcaster looking for guests with with something interesting to say, or a guest with something interesting to say, then matchmaker.fm is where great guests and great hosts come together.
00:26:28
Speaker
There is a link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. I like to create a description that is well worth reading. If you have liked this episode of The Independent Minds, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:45
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
00:27:00
Speaker
All that remains for me to say is thank again Terry Tucker for being a very interesting guest and also to thank you for listening. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you and goodbye.