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Do Good While Doing Well – a conversation with angel investor and author Marcia Darwood
30 Plays1 month ago
Marcia Darwood is an Angel Investor, and the host of the Angel Next Door podcast.
Marcia is also the author of Do Good Whie Doing Well a book in which she explains what angel investors do and how ordinary people can become angel investors.
It is important to remember that angel investors make investments in companies and that these investments are not always successful. If this episode of The Independent Minds inspires you to get involved in angel investing, please consult a qualified financial advisor before making any investments.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds, Marcia demystifies the process of early-stage investments that angel investors get involved in.
Marcia shares with host Michael Millward how and why she became an angel investor.
Marcia also candidly discusses the pros and cons of being an angel investor and what has motivated her investment decisions. It is not always about making money.
You will leave this podcast appreciating the important role that angel investors play in facilitating company growth, and understanding the processes involved in becoming an angel investor and making investment decisions.
More information about Marcia Darwood and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, Zencastr really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
Travel
Marcia is based in New York NY USA. With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club, you can travel to the USA, or anywhere else at trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, and many more travel related purchases.
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Transcript
Introduction to Independent Minds
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysseedah and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for every everyone.
00:00:23
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysseedah. Today, i will be learning about how to create the change you want to see in the world from Marcia Dawood, the author of Do Good Whilst Doing Well, Invest for Change, Reap Financial Rewards and Increase Your Happiness.
00:00:43
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencastr. Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process, including publishing and distribution, so easy.
00:01:01
Speaker
If you would like
Introducing Marcia Dawood and Her Philosophy
00:01:02
Speaker
to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida. All the details are in the description.
00:01:14
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:25
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Today, my guest independent mind is Marsha Dawood, the author of Do Good Whilst Doing Well, Invest for Change, Reap Financial Rewards and Increase Your Happiness.
00:01:46
Speaker
Marsha
Transition to Angel Investing
00:01:47
Speaker
has spent her career either developing people or investing in businesses. She is more angel than dragon or shark. Marsha is based in Charlotte, North Carolina in the United States.
00:01:59
Speaker
I have not visited either the city or the state. I will add both to my list of destinations that I will visit at trade prices because I'm a member of the Ultimate Travel Club.
00:02:10
Speaker
You can be a member as well. Just use the link in the description and you will have access to trade prices on flights, trains, hotels, package holidays, and so many more travel related purchases.
00:02:22
Speaker
Now that I've paid us some bills, it is time to make an episode of the Independent Minds. Hello, Marsha. Hello. Thanks for having me. It's great pleasure. i am ah feeling very privileged because you are quite an investor and quite a business personality in North America as well, when I look at your website and the various different things that you've been involved in. So I know you're very busy and I appreciate the time that you've made available for me.
00:02:49
Speaker
Could we start please by you just explaining a little bit about your career and the sort of activities that you are involved in at the moment? Sure. So I worked in corporate America here in the U S for many years and in the education business.
00:03:04
Speaker
And one day i was invited to an angel investing meeting and I thought, oh, that's cool, but I have no idea what that is. So I needed to kind of figure that out, go to the meeting and see what it was all about.
00:03:17
Speaker
and I was just fascinated to learn that even though I didn't live in a big city on the coasts of the U.S. where you hear about a lot of money flowing to entrepreneurs, there were a lot of things happening in my own city and my town.
00:03:32
Speaker
So i started going to more meetings, learning more about it. And I realized quite quickly how little funding goes to female founders and people of color. I thought, well, that's kind of strange because I'm sure that they have good ideas as well.
00:03:46
Speaker
So over time, I just started to learn through a lot of different ways, just trying out new models. I became on the, I was on the investment committee for several funds.
00:03:58
Speaker
I helped raise a couple of funds. Tried to learn as much as I could about it and then realized that There are a lot of people that could potentially be angel investors and could help make change in the world, but they weren't doing it because they really just didn't know about it. And so that led me to make a podcast of my own called The Angel Next Door and also write the book, Do Good While Doing Well.
00:04:22
Speaker
So what is an angel investor? Simply put, an angel investor is someone who uses their own money to invest in a private company. In a lot of cases, angels are looking for a scalable company that will give them some type of a pretty extraordinary return.
00:04:41
Speaker
So it is a risky asset class. First of all, I am not a financial advisor. If anybody is Thinking about making any financial decisions, they should, of course, consult their financial and tax advisors.
00:04:54
Speaker
But what I found was that, you know, there's a lot out there that people can do in order to help these companies. by
Investment Diversity and Accessibility
00:05:01
Speaker
not just with their financial capital, but also with the capital that they have, their human capital, and what they can bring to help these companies grow.
00:05:11
Speaker
Building and scaling a company is is a lot of hard work. So there's a lot that goes into it and um people can help in many different ways. And you also mentioned that you'd been involved in some funds. So sitting on the investment committee of funds and also building some funds.
00:05:29
Speaker
Would that be where somebody says, we're going to create a vehicle through which people can invest money and they put their own money into a fund to create a bigger investment, which then means that they can collectively invest more into different type of business, maybe a bigger business or one with more potential.
00:05:49
Speaker
Most of the time, funds, at least in our an angel world, is where you pool capital with other people. And there's a fund manager or managers that will invest that capital into other startup companies.
00:06:04
Speaker
So imagine somebody doesn't have a lot of time and or they don't necessarily want to do all the work in order to pick the companies to invest in they would invest through a fund.
00:06:15
Speaker
Because in a lot of cases, if you just make one or two investments, I mean, it's a risky asset class. so it would make sense to diversify and have you know a lot of different investments in different companies and different types of companies.
00:06:32
Speaker
So that's what a fund manager can do. And in a lot of cases, probably 15, 20 years ago, it was quite ah big hurdle to get over in order to even become an investor in a fund because you had to have a lot, a lot of money and get invited and things like that.
00:06:49
Speaker
But over the last, um let's say, 5, 10, 15 years, that's really changed. And now you can see that people can invest for much lower dollar amounts.
00:07:00
Speaker
which allows them to be able to be a part of this, but not necessarily have to have, you know, a ah ton of money that they have to put at risk. Yeah.
00:07:11
Speaker
So if
Inclusivity in Investment
00:07:12
Speaker
you're operating independently as a business angel, you've got to have a lot of money in order to do that. If you've just got one or two investments, then your risks are higher.
00:07:22
Speaker
Correct. If you work collaboratively with other people, you actually are able to invest a smaller amount, invest in a wider range of businesses. And the net result is that your risk level is reduced because you're the smaller amount of money and your you investment is spread more widely.
00:07:42
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. But before you make any financial investments, financial decisions, it is always important to talk to your independent financial advisor, accountant and tax advisor.
00:07:54
Speaker
So yeah, really good point on that one as well. Thank you. But you mentioned also about how it's more difficult for women and people of color, and I suppose even more difficult than for women are of color, to start businesses or to get the funding from investors to start businesses.
00:08:14
Speaker
thought businesses That's correct. And in a lot of cases, that's because there aren't enough people that look like them who make the decisions or who are writing the checks. So if you go back even like 10 years here in the US, I'm a part of the Angel Capital Association, which is our National Association, National Society of Angel Investors.
00:08:36
Speaker
And we collect a lot of data about angel investing throughout the U.S. and even the world. And we found that the amount of investors who were female, mean, at least when I got started about 12 years ago, was very, very small.
00:08:53
Speaker
In angel world, that has started to get a little bit better this past year. We've seen that number rise to as much as 25 30 percent But investors but um In the bigger dollars, when it comes to venture capital, which venture capital is where the funds are much larger and usually companies are getting investment from venture capital at much later stages, once they've de-risked a lot of their, of a lot of what they're working on.
00:09:20
Speaker
At the venture capital level, it's still very small. Not very many fund managers are female, not very many of the decision makers are female and therefore the amount of funding going to female founders at later stages when they really need the money to scale and grow and then to get to an exit where they would be acquired or go to a public market, um that gets you know very, very small, maybe like two, 3%.
00:09:49
Speaker
That's very interesting and it sort highlights a particular problem. Is that the change that you want to see in the world? Funding
Angel Investing and Innovation
00:09:56
Speaker
is more easily available to to women and people of color?
00:10:00
Speaker
ah That's definitely one of the changes. i think overall, my frustration level and the reason why I'm an advocate for educating people about the the fact that this asset class even exists is that there are a lot of entrepreneurs who are out there working on innovation in the world that cannot get the funding needed in order for that innovation to ever see the light of day.
00:10:26
Speaker
And when I would talk to people who I knew could potentially be investors, would ask them, well, is this something that you might be interested in They would say, well, I never even thought about this being something I could do. i thought you had to be rich. You had to have a finance degree. You had to be well connected. You had to be invited.
00:10:46
Speaker
And there's a lot of myths out there. from the past that has stopped people from getting involved or even knowing that it's but that something potentially they could get involved in.
00:10:56
Speaker
So I just like everybody to be informed and have the ability to make their own decision about whether or not they'd like to get involved. But in a lot of cases, when I see innovation and really important things that are happening that could potentially change the world,
00:11:11
Speaker
not being able to get the funding needed in order to move forward. That to me just seems like it could be a waste. We could we really could have a lot more of the things that changes that we want to see in the world if we had more people involved.
00:11:26
Speaker
And that seems to be the key thing. It's not saying there should be more money available to women, people of colour, people from minorities, regardless of which minority it is. I can imagine that members of the LGBT community would find it difficult to get funding for businesses. People with physical or mental disabilities might find it difficult as well. it's just, unless you fit into the nice, safe investment category, I should think it is difficult to get funding. And this key thing that you say, there are not enough investors who look like the people that need investment is a big, big problem.
00:12:04
Speaker
So in your book, when you talk about do good while while doing well, that is really call to the investors to do good whilst they're doing well.
00:12:18
Speaker
It is. i found though that there are a lot of entrepreneurs that appreciate that I wrote the book because it explains a lot of different ways that they as entrepreneurs could go look for funding.
00:12:31
Speaker
Back to your question before about, you know, what is my actual mission and goal? I think part of it is trying to make it easier for entrepreneurs to be able to fundraise.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yes, we want to see them be able to get their innovations out in the world, but I've watched countless entrepreneurs try and try and try to fundraise. It is just so time consuming. is taking them away from the business, taking them away from working on the innovation that they're doing.
00:13:00
Speaker
So how can we, how can we change that? And that's something that the book, is trying to target so i'm trying to demystify the entire early stage investing space because i found that if you wanted to learn about angel investing there's a lot of books out there on that you could find out about valuations term sheets get into all the nitty gritty details but in some cases like people why would they ever pick up a book like that if they didn't even know the early stage investing was. I didn't even know what
Personal Strategy in Investments
00:13:33
Speaker
angel investing was, but they know they'd like to do something. They'd like to do something good in the world.
00:13:38
Speaker
We hear that saying, the Gandhi quote, be the change you want to see in the world. Well, I would hear that. And I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want it. That's me. I want to be the change. And then I'd also think at the same time, well, wait a minute, I'm only one person. How do I do that?
00:13:50
Speaker
It's an often cited sort of saying that I'm only one person, i can't affect any change. And I think it was Damon Niteroddick, the body shop founder, who said, if you think you can't cause a change in the world, think about being under a mosquito net or being the mosquito that gets underneath the mosquito net and but the amount of change that that can create.
00:14:11
Speaker
There's lots of sort of sayings about how people can change, people can create change that they want to see, but it's still a difficult sort of process to start, isn't it? It's like the desire to want to do it and being able to do it and finally doing it is not um really, well, it's a lot easier to say than to do.
00:14:33
Speaker
That's true. What sort of businesses do you invest in through either directly or through the funds that you are involved with? but In most cases, angel investors or any type of venture capital investor, they're looking for companies that are scalable, and they usually fall into three buckets.
00:14:50
Speaker
One would be technology, also healthcare care and the life science space, and also then consumer products. These are things that you know, if marketed properly, if their customer acquisition strategy is good, they have the right team in place, they could potentially take a company and scale it to a level that could be acquired by either a bigger company or could potentially go public and then allow those investors to make a substantial ah return on the original investment that they made.
00:15:24
Speaker
right So, you know, that's really where we're we're looking for um the types of companies that we see that potential. It doesn't always happen, of course.
00:15:36
Speaker
Like we said before, it is a risky asset class. And you have to place a lot of bets in order to, you know, kind of make sure that you're you're in the game properly and properly diversified.
00:15:47
Speaker
But I would say that those are the three categories that we're really looking at. Well, what's the best return that you've had on one of your investments then? And i don't just mean financially. i mean, you invested in a business because it it was creating a change in the world.
00:16:02
Speaker
How has your investment helped them to achieve that change? In my TEDx talk, TEDxCharlotte in 2022, talk about a company that I invested in that is working on a treatment and possibly even a cure for Alzheimer's disease.
00:16:18
Speaker
My mother unfortunately passed away from ALS, which is a terrible neurodegenerative disease that is also kind of a sister disease to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
00:16:29
Speaker
And this company was working on something that could potentially help. And they're still working on it. It's a long process when it comes therapeutics. However, i knew that I felt like if I could even be a small part of what is going to make there be change so that so many families like mine don't have to suffer by having ah family member have to go through having one of these terrible diseases or any disease really, like if you think about all the cancers and heart disease and everything else that's out there.
00:17:04
Speaker
And there's a lot happening in the world to try to develop treatments and cures, but it is very, very challenging to get that funding that's needed.
00:17:15
Speaker
And one of those sort of processes that people embark on or businesses embark on without actually really having a guaranteed successful outcome at all, really. That's right. And an awful lot of time, energy and money goes into trying to make those changes.
00:17:31
Speaker
But ah a company that's trying to find a ah cure for Alzheimer's when we have an aging population is going to be an investment. If it pays off, it's going to have a big impact on the world.
00:17:45
Speaker
and And it's not just the fact that there will be drugs or or therapies that will cost a lot of money to recoup the investment. It is like you say, that impact that you have on families, people have better lives.
00:17:58
Speaker
In the book, you mentioned this model of like creating the change, making money, reaping the rewards, and the rewards aren't necessarily financial, but they are both psychological, physiological.
00:18:10
Speaker
They're about the reward of making the change possible. How practical is that model for, is it practical for every organization or is it just for the select few?
00:18:23
Speaker
I think it depends on what people are interested in and what it means to them. For example, when I first learned about early stage investing and became an angel investor, I did not have a strategy.
00:18:38
Speaker
hi I was just like, I'd meet an entrepreneur and so many entrepreneurs are just such amazing people and they have incredible ideas and they're very charismatic.
00:18:49
Speaker
And, you know, i would think, oh, I love what they're working on. I would love to be able to invest in them. And this happened like with a lot of the people that I met, matt even though I, course, didn't make investments in all of them.
00:19:00
Speaker
What I've found is that it's really much better to have a strategy so think about ahead of time, before I get into investing with money, what is it that I really care about? What are the things and the places where I would like to see there be change in the world? And how can i learn more about that? And How could I potentially get involved?
00:19:24
Speaker
In the book, I talk very specifically about coming up with your strategy and the strategy, I call it a halo strategy because angels, of course, all have halos that they wear. So what is that thesis? That's the word that the venture capitalists use.
00:19:40
Speaker
um But what is that strategy that we could come up with on our own so that we are being smart about what we're going to invest in and also, again, not using money that is allocated for something else. At the Angel Capital Association here in the U.S., we talk about how it should really only be about 5% to 10% of your investable assets.
00:20:06
Speaker
So you're not taking your kid's college money or anything like that, especially if they're teenagers, and using it to invest in a risky asset class. You would be taking a small like bucket of money um and you know little if you thought about your finances in buckets and you would take a small portion of that to be able to allow for there to be change in the world now that doesn't mean that there can't be financial returns you could just simply do an online search right now and you could find all kinds of success stories I think part of it is to be realistic in the fact that
00:20:41
Speaker
If you're going to put money at risk, if you're going to use your time in order to try to make change in the world, make it be in something that you really care about and ah that aligns with your values.
00:20:53
Speaker
So it's a very personal decision to start being an angel investor. And it's also a very personal decision around every investment that you make.
00:21:05
Speaker
i think it can be i mean in
Collective Investment for Positive Change
00:21:07
Speaker
some cases i know people who have i'm just going to try to put as many investments in play as i can so that i can try to hit that home run and invest in the next google or whatever and but i don't know that that is necessarily reality either so i feel like the more i've talked to people when i ask them and that's why i started my podcast the angel next door is so that I could just start to learn about why do people do this and what were there what was their real motivation?
00:21:37
Speaker
And the more I talked to people, they would tell me, well, these are the things that I really care about and they're the ones that I want to put my time and effort and money behind so that we can see that change in the world.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yes. Listening to you, it reminds me of the first interview that I ever did for any type of Abbasida content. It was for the Abbasida website itself. I had the opportunity to talk to Ben E. Heinemann, who was the number two, the general counsel during Jack Walsh's days. And he'd written a book along similar sorts of lines and talking about the approach was if it's But if it's not okay in our home, then we shouldn't do it elsewhere either. We've got to have values and standards and actually live them regardless of what a culture might say we might be able to get away with or even a legal system. We have to abide by the things that we've decided are our values and those fulfill our mission and our vision for the organization. And we're going to live by those.
00:22:38
Speaker
And... What you seem to be seem to be saying is that it's a very personal decision, but the values are part of the strategy of your investments.
00:22:49
Speaker
Work out what your values are, where you want to see change in the world, what sort of organizations that will be able to ah help you achieve the change that you want to see, and then build the strategy for your investments.
00:23:01
Speaker
How much you're going to put in when you're going to go in when you're going to exit around that set of values and strategy. Yes. Cool. I understand, you see.
00:23:12
Speaker
I'm learning all the time. I it. running all the time But it is ah it's very true that if you don't have if you if you fail to plan, then you are going to you're going to fail.
00:23:24
Speaker
And a strategy is the basic starting point of that. And then I suppose for each investment, each organization, you have a plan around what your involvement is going to be. And you have to live up to your side of that agreement with the with the people running that business.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, and in a lot of cases, angels do invest with their money and they don't necessarily have a lot of interaction with the companies other than to get a quarterly report to find out what's happening and what's going on.
00:23:51
Speaker
In other cases, people have taken board seats or been an advisor to the company and really gotten involved and helped in a much bigger way. But sometimes people, they get kind of nervous if you say, oh, well, you're going to have to get really involved with the company. They're like, oh i don't have time for that.
00:24:05
Speaker
And in a lot of cases, the that's not really what they have to do at all. My vision or what I kind of wish would happen if I had a magic wand is that more people would get involved, even if it was at a small level with their capital, their financial capital.
00:24:23
Speaker
So they would make investments with their money. But if they did that and more and more and more people did that, imagine what that would start to look like, because now you could start to see there would be changes that would start to happen.
00:24:37
Speaker
And it would be because there was a, a bigger collective of people that were working toward making that change. And to me, that's a big, that's a big deal.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yes, a very big deal. And I suppose to play devil's advocate for a moment, you know we're recording this in the end of February 2025. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world.
00:25:04
Speaker
There's a lot of conflict in the world. And there's a lot of more of a focus on the individual. And yet your vision for the world, the change that you want to see in the world is more people thinking not so much about themselves, but about the change that they could create.
00:25:21
Speaker
Take this the right way, please, as meant to be supportive, but it's there's a slight feeling that I get that given what's happening in the world at the moment, you're almost swimming against the tide with the message that you're you're promoting around what the change you want to see. Maybe.
00:25:37
Speaker
Maybe is a good answer there. i was just going to say, what sort of response have you had so far to to the book and the and the message that you've got? Yeah, so the taking that back to, well, it's all about me, um which is what I tell my husband a lot.
00:25:51
Speaker
Hey, by the way, this is all about me. you know He's like, uh-huh, yeah, I know that. um and know you know So the company that I invested in who had the he is working on Alzheimer's treatment,
00:26:05
Speaker
Well, that was actually, i mean, if you really think about it, relatively selfish on my part. Why do I want to see that change in the world? Well, I had a family member who was affected by neurodegenerative disease.
00:26:16
Speaker
What if I end up having that type of disease? I want there to be a treatment or a cure out there. So sometimes these things can actually come back to it is all about the person, because people will invest and they'll, they'll invest their time, they'll invest their money, they'll go to the bank that, that they feel comfortable with, they'll go to the restaurants that they're They want to support, they'll support the local dry cleaner that they want to support. All of those things they're doing because of what they care about and their feelings.
00:26:48
Speaker
I kind of look at it on, there's like two sides to the coin. So yes, there's the, it's all about me side. But then imagine as a collective, if we could actually do things together that we mutually cared about, it would be a benefit to to all.
00:27:04
Speaker
I guess that's part of the message is you can do good. and do well, meaning that you can do good and and and help yourself, help others, you can potentially do very well financially by helping some of these companies.
00:27:20
Speaker
And at the same time, the some of the benefits that you could get would be knowing that you're helping to make change in the world. You get to meet people
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:27:30
Speaker
that you would have never met. I've met so many people I would have never met who are not in my industry. you know i would have never crossed paths with I get to try things before they're actually on the market, which is also another cool thing that, you know, we get to do. So all of these things collectively, yes, it does look like I'm saying, hey, you everybody should do this to help the greater good.
00:27:53
Speaker
But at the end of the day, you're also helping yourself. Yes. Very good answer. It makes an awful lot of sense. I've learned a lot. I do appreciate it. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your time today, Marcia.
00:28:05
Speaker
Brilliant. Thanks for having me. It's been my pleasure. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the managing director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind and angel investor, Marcia Dawood.
00:28:21
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. One of the changes that I would like to see in the world is people being empowered to take a more proactive role in their preventative healthcare.
00:28:36
Speaker
That is why everyone on the team at Abucida has access to the annual health test from York Test. York Test provide an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, vitamin D, folic acid, liver function, iron deficiency, the list goes on and on.
00:28:57
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in UK AS accredited and CQC compliant laboratories.
00:29:11
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure personal wellness hub. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:29:26
Speaker
That description is well worth reading. I'm sure you will have liked this episode of The Independent Minds as much as I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:29:40
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:29:51
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.