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The Case for Bespoke Website Design – a conversation with Usman Skeikh
14 Plays19 days ago
Usman Skeikh is the Strategic Leader of Web Worx Labs a digital marketing agency based in Toronto Canada.
Usman joins host Michael Millward from a conference in Toronto, to talk about how Web Worx Labs has adopted a build from scratch approach to digital design.
Michael Millward discusses his experience of using both built from scratch websites and template-based websites.
Usman and Michael discuss the different effect the different types of websites can have on site visitors.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds, Usman explains how the built from scratch approach improves how every aspect of a brand can be presented and enhanced customer relationships created.
Find out more about both Michael Millward, and Usman Skeikh at Abeceder.co.uk
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, on which you can create your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms, Zencastr really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
Travel
Usman is based in Toronto , Canada. With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club, you can travel to Canada, and anywhere else at trade prices.
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Being a Guest
If you would like to be a guest on The Independent Minds, please contact using the link at Abeceder.co.uk.
We recommend that potential guests take one of the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre.
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Transcript
Introduction to Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysida.
Meet Usman Sheikh and Zencastr
00:00:28
Speaker
In this episode of the Independent Minds, I am joined by Usman Sheikh, the CEO of WebWorks Labs, a web design agency based in Toronto, Canada.
00:00:40
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr. Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, all of them really.
00:01:03
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making podcasts so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysseedah.
00:01:18
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:33
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
WebWorks Labs' Approach to Authentic Branding
00:01:42
Speaker
Today, my guest, Independent Mind, who I met at matchmaker.fm is Usman Sheikh, the CEO of WebWorks Labs, a web design agency based in Toronto, Canada.
00:01:54
Speaker
Hello, Usman. Hi, are you doing? Happy to be here. Thank you very much for finding some time in your day to be able to talk to us about the new approach that you're taking with web design. Yeah, it's going to fun. Please could we start by you telling us a bit about what WebWorks Labs does? Yeah, absolutely. So we're predominantly a design and marketing agency in the market and serving brands all over the world. Started you know working and helping friends and family, and I started this business while still in the corporate world.
00:02:23
Speaker
And before you knew it, we were doing more marketing and design and social media support with powerful messaging that really resonated with our partners and clients. We were able to really help a scale become a full-time operations.
00:02:37
Speaker
We're a small team of 16. yeah We do everything from scratch, unlike many of the templated solutions that are out there from a design perspective. And we do it by really getting immersive in the clients that we become partners with.
00:02:51
Speaker
So that's our approach. A lot of folks say, hey, what niche are you? you know Are you in pharmaceutical? Are you in glass? Are you in engineering? we We say, hey, you know what? We first We get to understand the client and we debrief them. We spend an hour, two hours getting to know them in the discovery session. We have a strategy session.
00:03:10
Speaker
And from there, we're then able to build it and determine if there's a fit and then go ahead and help them scale the brand. But that's usually been our approach. So that sounds quite different to the conventional approach that many web designers around the world would take.
00:03:25
Speaker
You've already mentioned that you'd start everything from scratch rather than using some type of format, which is already available. So you're not tailoring an existing format. You are starting from scratch with the technology and doing the coding from scratch. Yeah, that's right.
00:03:41
Speaker
there's There's so many templates out there now, and it's so easy to get something quick, get the business started. And there's nothing wrong with that approach and it helps and it works for many businesses.
The Necessity of Unique Branding
00:03:53
Speaker
ah How we're different is that if you really, we understand that if you really want to create an authentic brand um that speaks to the authenticity and uniqueness and differentiation of the business, then you have to create something that's unique to the business.
00:04:10
Speaker
And in order to do that, a template just doesn't cut it. A pre-formatted design doesn't cut it. You have to get into the messaging. You have to get into the consumer psychology and not only the customer but the end consumer will eventually be be impacted by by the by the product or service offering um and think that far out to design something that will really resonate.
00:04:34
Speaker
um We make decide decisions and subconsciously in microseconds when it comes to design. Either we love it instantly and it makes it out of our subconscious into our conscious um or we don't and we walk away and our brain filters it out and we don't pay attention to it.
00:04:50
Speaker
For brand, ah to resonate it instantly connect in those microseconds with their target audience, they have to do the research and and and and and and the messaging and the framework of strategy design upfront instead of using a templated solution that everybody sees and filters out.
00:05:09
Speaker
I know that when we did our first website Abusida, it was written from scratch. that was ah you know They started writing the code to create something which was a unique website for us.
00:05:20
Speaker
We've also done template based sub sites where we are have to fit in with what the the template will allow us to do. But it goes
Why Templates Fail for Authentic Branding
00:05:31
Speaker
beyond simply the template, doesn't it? You can see yeah know the same images appearing on on different websites. Yeah. This is a picture of our team.
00:05:40
Speaker
It can't be your team because it's also on their website. Exactly. I mean, that's what it comes down to, right? I mean, it's okay, I guess, and there's nothing wrong with it. when you you're there you know There are challenges when businesses are starting out ah to have something out there. And i don't get me wrong, I do believe that you know having a web presence, even in templated format, is better than having no web presence at all.
00:06:06
Speaker
But if you're really looking to scale, and if you're really looking to build a brand with a community, then you need to invest in something that's unique to your brand and communicate it effectively.
00:06:18
Speaker
Because unless it's not authentic, unless it's not in the niche and the space that you want to be a leader in and be known for, people will see through it. We've been in the web world, Web 2.0, and I've transitioned to Web 3.0 for over 20 years now.
00:06:33
Speaker
people see authenticity and know how to filter it out. It's no surprise that something looks like a template and something that looks authentic. And if brands want to really own a space or a category or a niche and they want to be known in that place, then it really becomes um the effort to get in front of your audience the right way, which is not a templated solution.
00:06:59
Speaker
A template can only get you so far, you'll look like the same brand, you know, and it be like um it'll be like every other brand in that space. And unfortunately, that only carries you so far.
00:07:11
Speaker
But if you're really looking to scale and grow, you need to define your niche and space. And you can only do that and and ah in a way that requires a level of customization. One of the things that was saying there is that you know for some types of businesses, a templated website is fine. And for most startups, a templated website is the way that they would go to get a web presence because any web presence is better than no web presence.
00:07:37
Speaker
But as a brand and an organization grows, it has to evolve to represent the organization accurately, authentically. And you've talked about earlier on design decisions, which I think you're referring to not just the client making, but also the customer, the person who's visiting the website and making decisions about a brand in nanoseconds or microseconds.
Consumer Decision-Making and Deep Branding
00:08:03
Speaker
Right. When somebody visits a website, they they see the website, then they make decisions about the way in which it's been designed and they make decisions about the way in which the brand is portrayed.
00:08:15
Speaker
almost subconsciously within within microseconds. they They're making decisions without recognizing that they're making a decision. And that, I suspect from what you're saying, will determine whether they progress down the screen and and on onto the other pages as well.
00:08:32
Speaker
That's exactly it. I mean, if you think about it, if you have a chance to make a difference in your target audience's life, you really connect with them.
00:08:42
Speaker
You have to define your brand, your your design, your messaging. So it instantly connects. You don't have a second chance in today's world. It's hyper competitive. Everything is overabundant in every every category.
00:08:57
Speaker
But the brands that put through effort to create their own space, stand for something, in their messaging, in their color palette, in their design, and they are different in how it's easily perceived by the target audience, that's the one that the business is going to go to.
00:09:16
Speaker
And that's the one that we help create that for for for our for our customers. um It takes effort, it takes research, it takes not only knowing your customer, which is very important, it also means knowing yourself and where you want to be positioning yourself versus what's out there in the market.
00:09:35
Speaker
So if there is, for example, a competitor in a space that has a certain shade of blue or a certain shade of red or yellow, what have you, and you come in and you didn't do the research, and the next thing you know, you're very much overlapping.
00:09:51
Speaker
what you're doing and they're already a category leader in their space, you're effectively in one way giving them business. Because if there're is they're a leader in their space and you've got a similar color palette and you're then allowing your target audience to build association that, hey, maybe they're a subcategory and they'll go to the the winner in the space.
00:10:11
Speaker
What you have to do is know the market, know yourself, know your areas of differentiation, and then really spell it out for the customer. Hey, we are different because of this. and we are different because of this look as well.
00:10:24
Speaker
That's why all of the supermarkets in the UK, the big supermarkets have a different color. So one of them is blue, one is orange, one is green. The difference, the dramatic difference between their colors is so that you can so you create a better association.
00:10:44
Speaker
It's not like, okay, um Orange is the color of a retail site because that's the color used by the biggest brands. That doesn't mean to say that you should use that color as well.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's definitely so much to color psychology and it's not only associated with what the competition is doing, but, you know, the blue representing a certain color palette with, you know, reliability and comfort and sometimes tech and traditional.
00:11:12
Speaker
versus purple, rich, bold, green, safe, um you know environmentally friendly, um white, reliable, subtle, beautiful. Every color has
Color Psychology in Branding
00:11:24
Speaker
ah role to play in our psychology.
00:11:26
Speaker
You combine that in understanding yourself and what message you want to do from a branding perspective. you know Why are you choosing a purple and golden to represent luxury versus blue and white for reliability, right?
00:11:40
Speaker
and And so there are associations our our psychology makes for every color palette. you Whatever your brand stands for, you know, you've got to know that those are the associations you want to make easier for your end consumer, for your target customer.
00:11:55
Speaker
And we help define that and say, hey, if this is what you're going for, this is the adjective you want to be known for. If Toyota equals reliability, if Volvo equals safety, ah if ah Land Rover equals adventure, BMW equals performance, they've worked hard in creating that space and that niche in the market.
00:12:15
Speaker
In choosing the right color palette, it's not only about knowing the the customer but it's also about knowing yourself. So we help identify and understand that and not only from a color selection perspective but also um the tonality of the brand, the messaging. Is it friendly? Is it humorous? Is it rebellious?
00:12:35
Speaker
um you know And that helps in combination with the right photography, with the right iconography, with the right typography to come together and create a distinct message for the brand.
00:12:50
Speaker
And distinction is everything in in in marketing. Very much so. I agree with you. But it sounds as if this, before you get to the creative stage of the drawing, the pictures and the the layouts, et cetera, there's an awful lot of psychology involved deciding.
00:13:09
Speaker
Well, you mentioned understanding your customer. your customer is the company that you're designing the web presence for. And you've not talked about websites. You've talked about like web presence, the whole range of different things that organizations do.
00:13:23
Speaker
And it's like understanding that organization, but also understanding their customer and the psychology around the relationship that they have yeah that your client has with their customers and vice versa before you can actually then start to be creative. an awful lot of psychology involved in your approach.
00:13:42
Speaker
It has to be. I mean, ultimately, we're in the business of helping our clients resonate with their clients in microseconds. And if decisions are being made and filtered out and noise is always in the background, to make instant connections, you have to get involved at psychological level.
00:14:02
Speaker
You have to understand what resonates and who your customer is, what their motivations and pain points are in order for us to create that custom solution. We've designed over 100 custom websites over the last seven years.
00:14:15
Speaker
And these are mega projects that require a ton of research, ton of analysis, copy, brand development, logo design, and from scratch end to end and deploy them successfully for startup brands or large publicly traded organizations.
00:14:34
Speaker
And what it takes is really understanding the target audience at an intimate level. What is their pain point? And if that's the
Creating a Unique Brand Identity
00:14:44
Speaker
pain point, what message will instantly connect?
00:14:46
Speaker
What color palette will connect? And how does that create a level of distinction so but getting famous becomes easier? And that's what it's for. And getting famous in your category helps getting sales easier.
00:15:00
Speaker
So it starts with first creating a distinct palette and a distinct look and message in a brand. Then marketing comes up Noise is easier. And then from getting getting known in your category, your space, your niche, sales become easier.
00:15:15
Speaker
So it's all like sequential. but And if you try to market something that you haven't defined, your marketing will become so much harder because you're not distinct enough. You haven't defined who your target is and you haven't created the assets to resonate with them.
00:15:29
Speaker
Now you're trying to market with them and it's becoming much, much tougher. And we've had that problem where brands come to us saying hey, we've been trying. We've tried to throw in the kitchen sink at our brand, including advertising, including push marketing, including hard sales tactics.
00:15:43
Speaker
But I'm like, who's your customer? Why are you only not talking to them and trying to talk to everybody? Focus on one and really go in deep. Because the internet is not about broadcasting. It's about narrowcasting.
00:15:56
Speaker
And in fact, it's even more so now because of the abundance and because of so much noise and competition out there. In order for you to build a moat around your competitive and around your brand and create that competitive advantage, you know it really comes down to branding correctly as a first step.
00:16:14
Speaker
I just recently did a presentation in a workshop at ah at a small business summit in downtown Toronto yesterday. talked about it on my in my LinkedIn profile.
00:16:24
Speaker
and The first step is the right branding, which includes the color palette, the rituals, the logo, the design, the topography, the iconography. ah Everything associated with the right design. If you don't have that right, then you don't have the right necessary steps to go to the next stage, which is you know building the community and and really getting your message out and creating the right ways to ah celebrate with the enthusiasts.
00:16:51
Speaker
Building a community is your ultimate word of mouth tactic. And word of mouth is the most powerful marketing tactic out there. It beats push marketing any campaign. It beats pull marketing of any campaign.
00:17:04
Speaker
if If you can influence and build a community, you can then easily sell and scale your brand. And that is what big brands, even Starbucks, Apple, you know Nike do to this day.
00:17:15
Speaker
If you go to the Instagram feed feed or if they go to your sites, or where wherever they are present online, they have consistent branding first and they understand the customers and then they only speak to them.
00:17:29
Speaker
And many brands fail to understand why they're so successful. And the reason is because they're not trying to appeal to everyone. Apple is not purchased as and still doesn't have the number one category share in the market right now. And everyone knows that.
00:17:43
Speaker
But no one can argue that they don't have great marketing. They don't have great but branding. They can appreciate them for what they are. And the reason for that is because they know that their market is who they're speaking to.
00:17:54
Speaker
They're speaking with their iPhone, iMac, or what have you, to the individual, to the rebel, to a certain segment of the population. And they speak only to them. And same thing with Nike. you know Nike is the urban warrior.
00:18:06
Speaker
You're going to see all the photography, all the design behind brick buildings or skyscrapers. You're not going to see Nike um in jungles or what have you, because that's not their brand.
00:18:18
Speaker
ah Similar exercise with Harley Davidson. They're working investing well in building the community, but they're working with doing that by building their brand first. It all starts with knowing who you are, your customer and your market, and then working to position yourself going deep.
00:18:33
Speaker
Wow. Does that make sense? It makes an awful lot of sense. And it's like, I'm sure there are lots of, well, I'd like to think there are lots of business people listening to this going like, yeah, that's what I've not been doing right.
00:18:46
Speaker
It's not easy. and No, it's not easy. And if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. And that's the reason why not everyone is doing it. But what you're saying, we were used to talk about you've got to create your funnel and have a great big funnel to begin with. And then you you gradually, gradually break it down until the you the people drop out at the bottom who are actually going to buy from you.
00:19:07
Speaker
But what you're saying, this different approach is almost like, yeah, listen to the big guys. They're almost like the cult brands, the want the brands that have... followings, the the brands that have people who will queue up out overnight in order to buy their latest release from the brands and say, okay, not just who is your customer, but how are you going to market directly to that one particular customer, that type of person who is most likely to want to buy from you, right?
00:19:37
Speaker
What makes them different from the person who isn't going to buy from you? And what makes them different from the person who who might eventually buy from you, but fine tune it down early on and don't worry about, you know, having to talk to absolutely everyone on the planet in order to identify who that person is.
Targeted Marketing for Brand Success
00:19:57
Speaker
Identify them th first. precisely Because if you try actually to try to appeal to everyone, ah honestly say it, you become a boring brand. You don't stand for anything.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah. um you know and you can't You can't please all of the people all that all of the time, can you? Exactly. And at that point, people don't know what you stand for. And if you don't know what you stand for and your customers don't know what you stand for, why would they do business with you?
00:20:23
Speaker
Precisely. Right? And that's what it's about. It's about working with you. So what sort of levels of success have you seen your clients achieving after they've implemented this approach that you use at WebWorks Labs?
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, we've had like ah engineering brands that traditionally, if you think about it, you know, they're very anti-social and anti-online commercial based marketing.
00:20:47
Speaker
Well, we've grown them from nothing on LinkedIn to over 56,000 followers by redesigning and redeveloping and deploying their brand. We created custom app experiences for their events, so it becomes a technology innovative based organization that they want to be known for in this space. We did a lot of social media messaging to get them to over 56,000 followers, so a lot of buyers, a lot of influencers noticed them.
00:21:12
Speaker
And because of that, their business is thriving and they get visibility that they never had before. And that's what it's about. It's about creating that community. But in order to create that community,
00:21:24
Speaker
It starts with understanding and the right design, the right messaging. And once we did that and we executed that, took about two and a half years, this whole project campaign.
00:21:35
Speaker
um you know Now they're at different level. you know And they they look better, they fight above their ah belt, and they compete for bigger business that they never had an opportunity for before.
00:21:47
Speaker
That's just one example. They're publicly traded organizations one of things that you mentioned there is it it took two and a half years. This is not a quick hit. This is a long, slow burn that requires adjustments as you progress to the point where you've got 56,000 followers in your community.
Consistent Branding Investment
00:22:06
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, this is where i think a lot of businesses are looking for like an immediate quick win. have a hard time understanding. You know, there are things that we can support with a quick win, but to become truly iconic iconic, to become known in your space, it's not it doesn't happen overnight.
00:22:26
Speaker
You know, you need to invest. You need to be there consistently. It's a discipline. And brands that commit are the ones that are always going to be able to get a ahead. and The brands that play the short-term game ah without a cause, without a distinct flair and sticking to that distinct flair and really becoming famous in that category becomes very easy.
00:22:49
Speaker
Worses ones that go from ditch ditch, strategy to strategy, in order to get the quick wins. And that's what business is about. It's about the long-term sustainability, competitive edge.
00:23:01
Speaker
versus trying to get the quickest profit. And that's why that's those are the type of brands we want to partner with, the ones that are investing in in the long term. Yes, I can see how what you're describing is not something for a summer. It's something that is an investment and ah part of a long-term strategy plan to build a brand, build a customer base, a community, and then to able to fine tune But also then once you've got that community, making it a community that other people want to join because of the value that you add to your community.
00:23:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, I mean, in order, like I said, the number one tactic in marketing is word of mouth. you know And if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of followers that are spreading your word or incentivized to do so because you make them so happy with your branding and your community building activities, you've created the biggest channel that will always give you the competitive edge over recessions and systema systematic downturns, over new entrants, over new niche players.
00:24:15
Speaker
And that is what competitive advantage is all about. It's about insulating yourself so no one can replicate what you have. No one can build $50,000 or $100,000 audience in one day, in five days, in even a year.
00:24:28
Speaker
It takes a lot of effort. And in order to do that, you have to know yourself, you have to know your customer, you to know the market, and you have invest in building a community.
Competitive Advantage Through Community
00:24:36
Speaker
But that moat is what's going to help pay for the next level of success and you when you're looking to really expand and grow.
00:24:44
Speaker
Osman, it is fascinating. and think that I've just scratched the surface, but I have learnt so much. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time today. I know you're at a conference in Toronto at the moment, and I appreciate you taking time out from there to to talk to me today. So thank you very much. Really appreciate your time.
00:25:05
Speaker
Oh, it's been fun so much. Thanks so much for having me, Michael. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Usman Shaikh, the CEO of WebWorks Labs.
00:25:22
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abasida.co.uk. I must remember to thank the team at Matchmaker for introducing me to Usman Shaikh, to Nathan, If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Usman Sheikh, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made.
00:25:45
Speaker
There is a link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. If you are listening to the independent minds on your smartphone in the United Kingdom, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:26:01
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 is that you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:26:19
Speaker
It is a description that is well worth reading. If you have liked this episode of The Independent Minds, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:31
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
00:26:45
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, a big thank you for listening and goodbye. Thank you.