How to be proud of your website

In this episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/] speaks with Jonny Ross [https://jonnyross.com/], digital marketing expert and author of WebProud [https://link.amazon/B03L2ZEnO], about what it really takes for businesses to build a website they can be proud of.

Jonny shares his journey from launching a successful e‑commerce sunglasses business in the dot‑com boom to discovering the hard way how devastating poor SEO can be—and how that experience inspired him to help businesses understand “what this Google game is all about.”

Together, Michael and Jonny explore why most business owners aren’t proud of their websites, how websites often fail to reflect the true personality and capability of a business, and why “it’s your shop front”—a place where trust, credibility and human connection must shine through.

Jonny breaks down the five‑step WebProud roadmap, including:

 * Website health checks
 * Building trust signals
 * Attracting the right visitors
 * Converting traffic into leads
 * Maintaining a fresh, authentic web presence

Packed with practical, bite‑sized actions, real‑world examples, and insights into SEO, personal branding, content strategy, and digital trust-building, this episode is essential listening for entrepreneurs, marketers, and anyone wanting to improve their website performance, conversion rates, and online credibility.

Whether your website is slow, outdated, overloaded with stock images, or simply not converting, this conversation will help you rethink your digital presence and start creating a WebProud site that truly represents your business.

Discover more about Jonny Ross, and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test. Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Keywords

web presence, website conversion, SEO mistakes, digital marketing, Jonny Ross, WebProud, Fleek Marketing, website trust signals, online credibility, business website improvement, website health check, personal branding, content strategy, digital marketing tips, entrepreneur marketing, website optimisation, Leeds digital marketingx

Are You Web Proud? – a conversation with author Jonny Ross

AI adoption isn’t really a technology problem

Independent Minds returns with a thought‑provoking conversation between host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/]and Vin Mitty [https://www.linkedin.com/in/vinayakmitty/?isSelfProfile=false], author of The AI Decision Map [https://link.amazon/B0dhAhJJO] and a long‑time leader in data, machine learning, and organizational AI adoption.

Drawing on two decades of hands‑on experience and his PhD research, Vin explains why 95% of AI projects fail, why the real barriers are human and organizational rather than technical, and how leaders can use structured frameworks to make smarter, more confident decisions about AI.

Vin and Michael explore:

 * Why organisations misunderstand what AI is and isn’t
 * The difference between probabilistic AI and deterministic software
 * How fear, trust, and leadership shape AI adoption
 * Practical ways small and large organisations can use AI to create value
 * How AI will reshape early‑career roles and elevate human strategic work
 * The core ideas behind Vin’s AI Decision Map and AI Value Review frameworks

Listening will give you a clear, jargon‑free insights into how AI can genuinely improve work, decision‑making, and productivity—without falling into hype or fear‑driven thinking.

Perfect for business leaders, HR professionals, technologists, and anyone curious about how AI can be applied responsibly and effectively.

“AI adoption isn’t really a technology problem… it’s a leadership and trust problem.”

Discover more about Vin, author of the AI Decision Map [https://uk.bookshop.org/a/13978/9781807212988] and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test. Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

The A.I. Decision Map – a conversation with author Vin Mitty PhD.

Enneagram—a powerful motivation‑based personality framework

In this episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/] talks with executive coach, international speaker, and author R. Karl Hebenstreit [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rkarlhebenstreit/?isSelfProfile=false] to explore the Enneagram, a powerful motivation‑based personality framework that is transforming workplaces around the world.

Karl explains how the Enneagram goes beyond traditional personality tools by revealing the core motivations that drive human behaviour. In organisational development terms the Enneagram explains the thought processes that generate the behaviour.”

Michael and Karl unpack:

 * The nine Enneagram types and how each reflects a distinct motivational lens
 * Whynature and nurture shape your dominant type
 * How leaders can use the Enneagram to improve team dynamics, engagement, and retention
 * The role of self‑awareness in building healthier, more effective workplace relationships
 * Real‑world examples of how organisations shift when they understand what truly motivates their people

Karl shares insights from his book The How and Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram, [https://link.amazon/B0ae2MEQw] now in its third edition, offering practical guidance for applying the Enneagram in leadership, HR, and organisational development.

Whether you're an HR professional, a leader seeking better team cohesion, or simply curious about what drives human behaviour, this episode will challenge your assumptions and expand your thinking.

True to the show’s mission: “We won’t tell you what to think, but we hope to make you think.”

Michael reflects on optimism, conflict resolution, and the “iceberg” metaphor Karl uses to explain how unseen motivations shape visible behaviour.

Keywords

Enneagram, personality types, workplace motivation, organisational psychology, leadership development, team engagement, R. Karl Hebenstreit, Michael Millward, The Independent Minds podcast, HR tools, motivation typing, organisational development, business psychology, self‑awareness at work.

Discover more about Karl and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test. Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Understanding the Enneagram – a conversation with R. Karl Hebenstreit

How to Scale a Business – with Steve Walsh, Author of Make the 10X Leap

In this episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/], talks with entrepreneur, investor, and author Steve Walsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/walsh-steve/] to explore what it really takes to scale a business.

Drawing on insights from his book Make the 10X Leap [https://link.amazon/B06DxCX0H], Steve explains

 * Why so many entrepreneurs get stuck,
 * How to break through growth barriers, and
 * The mindset shifts required to build a company that can scale far beyond lifestyle‑business limits.

From his early entrepreneurial beginnings at age 15 to advising investment groups and high‑growth founders, Steve shares practical lessons on:

 * The 3C Investment Lens – Clarity, Clairvoyance, Confidence
 * Why entrepreneurs must evolve their role as their company grows
 * The power of pairing a visionary with an implementer - including examples from Microsoft, Virgin, and Office Depot.
 * Smart capital vs. dumb capital
 * Why investment should bring more than money, it should bring expertise, networks, and strategic direction.
 * Why customer relationships matter more than ever in the age of AI
 * How entrepreneurs can overcome fear‑based decision‑making
 * From hiring to seeking advice to letting go of control.

This conversation is packed with actionable insights for founders, startup leaders, investors, and anyone preparing to scale a business. Whether you're aiming for your first £1m or dreaming of £100m+, Steve’s guidance offers a clear blueprint for growth.

If you're an entrepreneur, or thinking about becoming one, this episode will challenge your assumptions, sharpen your strategy, and help you think differently about what’s possible.

Discover more about Steve and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test; conducted by an experienced phlebotomist with hospital standard tests.

A secure Personal Wellness Hub provides easy-to-understand results and lifestyle guidance

Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/] and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

How to Scale a Business – a conversation with author Steve Walsh

Why do most organisational change programmes fail?

In this thought‑provoking episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/]and Swedish technology and transformation leader Helena Hörnebrant [https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenah%C3%B6rnebrant/] unpack one of the most misunderstood aspects of organisational development: the difference between change and transformation.

Drawing on her global career across CIO, CDO, MD and project leadership roles, Helena explains why organisations often focus on systems, processes, and structures; but overlook the only element that can truly transform a business: people.

Michael and Helena explore:

 * Why traditional change programmes often “do change to people” rather than enabling them to transform for themselves
 * How leaders must evolve their style as organisations mature, scale, and face the “never normal” pace of change
 * The role of ego, curiosity, and psychological safety in helping teams adopt new ways of working
 * Why transformation requires orchestration, not command‑and‑control management
 * How cross‑functional collaboration and shared accountability create sustainable, self‑driven improvement
 * The growing impact of AI on leadership, employee empowerment, and organisational adaptability

This conversation is rich with practical insight, reflective moments, and real‑world experience. Whether you’re a leader, HR professional, change practitioner, or simply curious about how work is evolving, this episode will challenge your assumptions and expand your thinking.

Discover more about Helena and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test; conducted by an experienced phlebotomist with hospital standard tests.

A secure Personal Wellness Hub provides easy-to-understand results and lifestyle guidance

Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/] and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Keywords

Organisational transformation, change management, leadership development, behavioural change, digital transformation, AI and leadership, cross‑functional teams, workplace culture, employee engagement, modern management, transformation strategy, continuous improvement, business transformation podcast.

Change – v – Transformation – a conversation with Helena Hornebrant

Explore what resilience really means at work,

In this episode of Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/] and leadership trainer, coach, and author Sarah Turner explore one of today’s most talked‑about workplace skills: resilience.

Drawing on her contribution to the anthology Joy at Work [https://amzn.to/4rr7w8u] and her certification in the Hardiness Resilience Gauge, Sarah breaks down what resilience truly is, why it matters, and how anyone can strengthen it.

Sarah uses the three core components of hardiness:

 * Challenge,
 * Control, and
 * Commitment

To explain how resilience is more that toughing it out and how these factors shape the way we respond to stress, change, and everyday workplace curveballs.

Sarah shares real‑life examples, including how “picking your battles” can transform both your mindset and your relationships at work and at home.

Michael and Sarah explore

 * The impact of low resilience on teams and culture,
 * How resilience links to emotional intelligence, and
 * Why adaptability is just as important as bouncing back.
 * How organisations can identify resilience during recruitment

Whether you’re a leader, HR professional, or simply someone navigating modern work, this conversation offers practical insights into building resilience, creating joy at work, and shaping healthier, more productive workplace cultures.

Discover more about Sarah Turner and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk/]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The 39-health marker Annual Health Test from York Test; conducted by an experienced phlebotomist with hospital standard tests.

A secure Personal Wellness Hub provides easy-to-understand results and lifestyle guidance

Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/] and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Keywords

resilience at work, workplace resilience, hardiness resilience gauge, emotional intelligence, leadership development, challenge control commitment, joy at work, Sarah Turner, Michael Millward, Independent Minds podcast, adaptability at work, employee wellbeing, workplace culture, HR insights, recruitment resilience questions

Resilience at Work – a conversation with Sarah Turner

Why honesty, emotional intelligence, and genuine service are the secrets of future sales success

Host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/]and Jeanne Omlor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanneomlor/] a Florida‑based specialist in maximizing profits and impact, discuss how selling is evolving.

Jeanne only started to be successful in business when she discovered that most barriers to success are emotional not technical.

Michael and Jeanne explore how modern buyers are becoming more sophisticated, more informed, and far less tolerant of traditional sales tactics.

You will learn why

 * Traditional sales techniques based on manipulation are dying out
 * There is a growing trend towards transparency in sales.
 * A sales person’s reputation is key to their success.
 * Understanding a prospect’s marketing awareness using the five levels of buyer sophistication model helps you tailor communication without becoming fake or formulaic.
 * The ‘boxes of communication’ model works to help you adapt while remaining authentically yourself.
 * The future of sales is #Unfake. Jeanne’s core message: stop performing, stop manipulating, and start serving. Selling should be serving people.

This conversation challenges long‑held assumptions about selling and offers a refreshing, human‑centred alternative. If you’re a leader, entrepreneur, or anyone who needs to influence others ethically, Jeanne’s insights will help you rethink how you show up, communicate, and build trust.

This episode of The Independent Minds is perfect for listeners who enjoy:

 * Modern sales psychology
 * Ethical business practices
 * Emotional intelligence in leadership
 * AI‑driven shifts in customer behaviour
 * Conversations that make you think — not tell you what to think

Discover more about Jeanne Omlor and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk [https://www.abeceder.co.uk]

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder] really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Fit For Work We recommend The Annual Health Test from York Test; a 39-health marker Annual Health Test conducted by an experienced phlebotomist with hospital standard tests carried out in a UKAS-accredited and CQC-compliant laboratory.

A secure Personal Wellness Hub provides easy-to-understand results and lifestyle guidance

Visit York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/] and use this discount code MIND25.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

Matchmaker.fm [https://www.matchmaker.fm/] is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

The Future of Selling – a conversation with marketer Jeanne Omlor

When your marketing is working, leads are flowing, and new customers are signing up… yet sales stubbornly refuse to grow, something deeper is going on.

In this thought‑provoking episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abecedermichaelmillward/] chats with Tamara Ceman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaraceman/], the Practical Marketeer [https://www.practical-marketer.com/] and author of The DIY Marketing Playbook, to explore what really causes a growth plateau, and how you can break through it.

Drawing on 17 years of hands‑on marketing leadership, Tamara explains why plateaus rarely have a single cause. Instead, they emerge from hidden misalignments across acquisition, activation, retention, and most critically positioning. As she puts it in the conversation: “The initial sale is very far from the end of the story. It’s just the beginning.”

Michael and Tamara unpack:

 * Why companies often panic and widen the top of the funnel — only to attract poor‑fit leads that churn quickly.
 * How sales‑led organisations can unintentionally distort product‑market fit.
 * The four common causes of growth plateaus, from dried‑up acquisition channels to “hope‑and‑vibes” retention.
 * Why shedding assumptions, egos, and past glories is essential for diagnosing the real problem.
 * Practical steps any team can take — even without external consultants — to start uncovering the truth behind stalled growth.

Tamara’s “scout mindset” approach is a refreshing, practical framework for leaders who want to understand why their growth has stalled and what to do next.

This is an episode packed with insight, honesty, and actionable guidance for SaaS founders, marketers, sales leaders, and anyone navigating the messy reality of scaling a business.

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder], the all-in-one podcasting platform, that really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Fit For Work – The Annual Health Test from York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]; assesses 39-health markers.

Use discount code MIND25.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training available from WPLC [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening

Why Do Sales Plateau? and What to Do About It – a conversation with Tamara Ceman

Working With and Supporting Employees with Addiction

In this thought‑provoking episode of The Independent Minds, host Michael Millward speaks with Jeff Jones [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-jones-0303834/] of thefamilyrecoverysolution.com [https://www.thefamilyrecoverysolution.com/] to explore one of the workplace’s most uncomfortable realities: addiction.

Drawing on his personal history and professional experience as a therapist, Jeff explains why addiction is rarely a simple, individual problem. As he puts it, “families are on the front lines… they see this first,” and employers often become the next crucial part of the support system.

Together, Michael and Jeff [https://amzn.to/4A7uvcL] examine how addiction develops, why behavioural changes at work matter, and how workplace culture can either reduce risks or unintentionally amplify them.

The conversation challenges black‑and‑white thinking and instead encourages employers to recognise the “shades of grey” that define each person’s relationship with addiction. Jeff outlines what a truly supportive employer looks like—one who focuses on whole‑person wellbeing, builds trust, avoids harmful cultural norms, and creates systems that help employees recover rather than fall further.

Whether you’re an HR professional, a leader, or simply someone interested in healthier workplaces, this episode will make you think differently about addiction, support, and the role work plays in recovery.

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder], the all-in-one podcasting platform, that really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/] for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Fit For Work – The Annual Health Test from York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]; assesses 39-health markers.

Use discount code MIND25.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training available from WPLC [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Working With an Addict

Why Your Marketing Data Is Letting You Down

Dive into one of the most persistent, and costly, marketing challenges: businesses are making decisions with data that is incomplete, misunderstood, or simply wrong.

Michael Millward speaks with TJ Kelly, a digital sales and marketing practitioner who was with Tier Eleven [https://www.tiereleven.com/] at the time of recording, but now works with Wicked [https://www.wickedreports.com/].

TJ explains, the explosion of devices, platforms, privacy rules, and competing tech ecosystems has fragmented the data marketers rely on. The result? Organisations confidently make decisions based on numbers that only tell half the story.

Michael and TJ explore:

 * Why intuition-led marketing still dominates—and why it’s dangerous
 * How big tech platforms limit what businesses can see
 * The difference between new visitors and truly new customers
 * Why attribution is outdated, and contribution is the future
 * How anonymised tracking protects users while empowering businesses
 * The critical importance of knowing your true cost of customer acquisition

This episode is a must‑listen for anyone involved in marketing, sales, digital strategy, or business growth. It won’t tell you what to think—but it will make you rethink what you think you know about your data.

Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds

The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr [https://zen.ai/abeceder], the all-in-one podcasting platform, that really does make creating content so easy.

Travel – With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club [https://www.membership.utc.travel/partnership-fit-for-my-age-podcast/], you can travel anywhere at trade prices.

Visit Three [https://www.three.co.uk/]for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.

Fit For Work – The Annual Health Test from York Test [https://www.yorktest.com/]; assesses 39-health markers. 

Use discount code MIND25.

Being a Guest

We recommend the podcasting guest training available from WPLC [https://www.workplacelearningcentre.co.uk/product/podcast-guest-academy-training-by-matchmakerfm].

We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.

Thank you for listening.

Getting the Data Right - a conversation with TJ Kelly

On the Independent Minds, podcast, you will meet independent thought leaders and learn about the ideas they have developed to help employers and their employees address the challenges that organisatio

The Independent Minds · Zencastr

The Independent Minds

On the Independent Minds, podcast, you will meet independent thought leaders and learn about the ideas they have developed to help employers and their employees address the challenges that organisations of any type or size, in any location have must address if they are to achieve their business objectives and attain sustainable growth.



You will be able to read more about all of the independent minds thought leaders on the Work Place Learning Centre blog.



The independent minds thought leaders will be based all over the world. Some will discuss a new way of doing, whilst others will be discussing new ways of thinking. Each will have a practical solution which you will be able to access at Work Place Learning Centre.co.uk.



Independent minds solutions are also available as part of Abeceder H2R the comprehensive  employee management solution that covers every aspect of every stage of the employer employee relationship from hiring to retiring. 