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AI is Your Business Brain – a conversation with digital twinning expert Philip Milne
32 Plays1 month ago
Philip Milne built his IT expertise working at the sharp end of business as he endeavoured to use technology in all its forms to make his business more efficient and more profitable.
Now as the founder of Intelidat Philip helps other business owners make better use of their investment in IT and the data that that IT helps to generate.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds, Philip explains to host Michael Millward the big mistake that business owners make when it comes to effectively using IT and AI within their business.
Philip describes the difference between AI that has been designed for personal use and AI that has been designed for business use.
Philip also explains the advantages of using AI as business brain that acts like an identical twin of your organisation.
You will leave this podcast appreciating more about the practical application of AI in your organisation.
More information about Philip Milne and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, Zencastr really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Independent Minds' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
Introduction of Host and Guest
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. Today I'm going to be discussing what a business brain is with Philip Milne, who is a coach and expert in artificial intelligence.
00:00:41
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the Independent Minds is made on Zencastr.
Endorsement of Zencastr Platform
00:00:47
Speaker
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform. You can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to all of the major platforms.
00:00:57
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using zencastr visit Zencaster, visit zencaster.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abbasida.
00:01:09
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:23
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Today, my guest, Independent Mind, is Philip Milne.
00:01:35
Speaker
Hello, Philip. Hello, Michael. Thank you very much for having me on board. I'm glad you could make it. Thank you very
Philip Milne's Background in Technology
00:01:41
Speaker
much. Could we please start by you giving us a little bit of background on who Philip Milne is?
00:01:46
Speaker
My background is very much a businessman who talks techie. So been in business for 30 something years. I predated the internet, I predated emails. So and in our business, I took on all the back office stuff.
00:01:59
Speaker
And I basically taught myself about computers and how to use technology and the beauty of information. So you got very much involved in technology with your own business. What was your business doing?
Experience in Event Management
00:02:12
Speaker
We were in the event management world. So we catered, we ran conferences, we ran, we started off running we call participative events. So therefore, instead of going to watch tennis, you play tennis.
00:02:23
Speaker
That was our mantra. We invented that whole business in the UK, which is fantastic. And then we ended up feeding thousands of people every to every year for Christmas in London. So we morphed around.
00:02:35
Speaker
But we were characterized really as a business with very, very thin margins. So we had to be super efficient. And we built this bespoke CRM, ERP, purchase order, be it RDV, quoting, documentation, everything system, even before the internet, because we just had to know what we were doing and how much money we were making, because it wasn't very much of it.
00:02:59
Speaker
So it's very much a business case that drove your interest in IT things, technology. Very much. And then very quickly morphed into the fact that, because like I call myself a businessman who talks techie, to me, technology is all about delivering something to the business. And in our case, it was information to get these sort of beautiful things called.
00:03:18
Speaker
Honda Buggy, it was Honda Pilot, it was called. It was absolutely brilliant. But in those days, it was costing nearly £8,000. So we had to know exactly how many we were using over the next X months.
00:03:29
Speaker
to warrant whether we were going to go out and buy a new one or we were going to keep renting off some of our subcontractors. And we used to play these all the time, everything that we were doing. And we relied on the quality of our information, both forwards and backwards, to run those. And that was my early introduction to how powerful technology could be.
00:03:45
Speaker
And it allowed us to leapfrog a lot of our competition. We were faster to market. We made better decisions. um What he didn't tell us was you would probably be better off designing technology for other people than you will be running events because all you ever do is run more events.
00:04:01
Speaker
What you're demonstrating there, I think, is that the value of the technology is that it gives you the information. And with the information, you then have to make the right decisions with that information so that you can make the the changes to a business operation, which will put you ahead of the competition.
00:04:19
Speaker
But you have to put the right information in, get the right information out, and know how how to understand the information that you've been given before you can make the business decision.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, so absolutely. So after 30 years of of doing this, we we sold out. Thankfully, it was about 2017. So before COVID came along. So we sold out. We'd never survived COVID. We we just didn't have the the balance sheet to do it.
00:04:43
Speaker
But I left there because I was already starting to incorporate things. the early early bits of AI, you know, sort of machine learning, and we've done lots of automation by then. So these were early elements of of the AI.
00:04:56
Speaker
And we were putting those in. So I set up a business, which I'm still running today, called Intellidat.
About Intellidat and AI Integration
00:05:01
Speaker
So it was a play on the words intelligent data, which was a conversation piece between myself and and i one of our latter-day chairman. Intelligent data gives intelligent information which gives leads to intelligent decisions.
00:05:13
Speaker
Based on your experience then? Correct. Tell me something about the work that Intellidat does and some of the projects that you you've been working on. Well, in the early days, I came out starting to swing about AI, but very quickly ran into a problem that Most businesses, certainly in mice in the size that I was going to, i was going to the SME market rather than the big boys who had big technology orgs around them, was that actually most businesses, we were very, very atypical, most businesses actually had, and I'm afraid to say still have, poor quality data in the background.
00:05:48
Speaker
um And a lot of the time, that's driven by the fact that the business leadership might be good at marketing or finance, but very few of them ever engage with the technology side of life. Data was something that IT t did, and devil take the hindmost, really. It's the unglamorous side of running a business, really, isn't it?
00:06:07
Speaker
Correct. And I think today around that executive table, probably even around the boardroom table, the person who runs the information, it's one of my go-to start points, the person who runs the information is actually the most important person after the CEO, if they're not the CEO themselves.
00:06:23
Speaker
So Amazon, for instance, very famously, Jeff Bezos was his own data man. he He made sure that the data that Amazon was producing met the needs that the company had, and it wasn't down to the finance team or the marketing team or the sales team.
00:06:39
Speaker
He made sure that he knew and they all knew how valuable the information was then and was going to be. And why have they made use of it? There is no problem. Well, Amazon is probably the five star gold rings um user of data. Everything that you do when you interact with Amazon creates data and they use that to then deepen out your relationship with Amazon.
00:07:05
Speaker
Absolutely. But there's a more prosaic example in the UK, Tesco's. um you know The Tesco's card was the first one of its kind. And that use that enabled them, because people got a discount for using the Tesco's card, and frighteningly big discount today, um because the data is so valuable to Tesco's in what they do. And and that was a huge example of ah you know huge example of a company really benefiting from it from its information.
00:07:31
Speaker
and look at the way it has dominated um the grocery retail market in this country. Yes. When you put it in those terms, information does become like the
The Value of Data in Business
00:07:43
Speaker
value of the organization.
00:07:45
Speaker
You know when you're talking to a small business person, an independent consultant, for example, and they're their value of their business whilst they're working is their own knowledge. When they come to sell their business, what they're selling is not necessarily their knowledge, but the information about their clients and the relationship with their clients. And that's that's data, isn't it? That's yeah data. what And the world we're in at the moment, is it is becoming easier and easier to capture that knowledge in a central repository. um You know, I go...
00:08:20
Speaker
um'll I'll leap ahead slightly and and talk about you know a system. we When I first started up, a CRM system was unusual. we we we we We were an early adopter of one, but it went very, very short way. It took it was all about birthdays and and and people's family relationships. It was a classic salesman getting to know their client really well, I think.
00:08:42
Speaker
and we took the concept much faster because actually the bit that we wanted to do was client relationship management so that was meant we knew how we interacted with that client in real time but to do that we had to do an awful lot of pedantics we had to make you know when you came back from a meeting we had a discipline everyone had to write up their meeting notes and put it into a task and every time you had a telephone conversation you had to write it up put into a task And therefore, there were lots of fields, there still are in a CRM system, lots of fields that people have to fill in, which then drive future knowledge and future interaction.
00:09:17
Speaker
The biggest change coming today is that actually the number of fields in a CRM system should reduce dramatically. You should be able to have the minimum that you require, which is probably someone's first name, last name, the company they work for, the department, the things that you to fill in if you were producing invoices or if you were producing...
00:09:35
Speaker
emails or or letters, ah you know even I'm probably over-expanding. Everything else just goes into a repository. Every email you send just goes into a repository. Every meeting you have, the transcript goes into there. Every webmail meeting, every every social media interaction, you put it into there and you question that in real time.
00:09:55
Speaker
And even that should drive you should have the knowledge of how you've reacted, how that client's reacted with you in the past to actually then build how should I react how should i interact with them in the future.
00:10:07
Speaker
It's not a one size fits all, but it's a unique attention to detail for each particular client. And all you have to do to that is two things. One is capture all that information, which is not difficult today.
00:10:19
Speaker
And the other is learn how to interrogate it so that it makes sense. Now, building that latter model It does require a bit of knowledge and it's something outside of technology. It's a balance between what the business needs and what the technology can provide.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yes. And it's understanding the difference between what the business needs and what the technology can provide. It easily rolls off the tongue. But I know that is a big challenge, isn't it?
00:10:47
Speaker
It is. And I mean, in today's world, and I'm talking about I am absolutely passionate about how this this tool called artificial intelligence, and it's a very wide, is actually going to revolutionise the way that we
Personal AI Tools for Productivity
00:11:03
Speaker
do business. Now,
00:11:05
Speaker
I separate AI into two, mentally into two things. There is personal AI, which is what most of us are using today. And if this was a meeting, I'd probably be transcribing it.
00:11:17
Speaker
I have my intelligent interns, as I call them. I have ChatGPT, who costs me 20 pounds a month. And I have Grok, who's free. And I ask questions of them virtually all the time. And I have a tool called VoiceNotes that I talk into whenever I'm bored, even when I'm writing up notes.
00:11:33
Speaker
When I was spending half an hour talking to my daughter earlier on, i also had my voice notes going so that I was making notes about what I was going to talk to. to When I come back to my computer, it's all transcribed and ready for me to use in some some other environment.
00:11:45
Speaker
Google Notebook LM, if anyone's come across that the most awesome piece of kit you just put in all your sources and then you start asking questions of it. How people can work today without it, I don't know, but it's brilliant. But that's personal AI.
00:12:00
Speaker
And a lot of people take personal AI and then they're saying, how can I use this in my business? How can I create chatbots? How can I ask questions? And I'm going, that's not quite the same thing as business AI. Business ah AI has a different slant to it and is it and and should be applied in a slightly different way.
The Role of AI in Employee Productivity
00:12:20
Speaker
And what what is that different way? Well, business AI, my first focus with business AI, and I try and get any client that I'm talking to is to think, and this is the start of our business brain type conversation.
00:12:32
Speaker
i think so to Don't think, I mean, you know there's a classic case running around at the moment with a big IT company that got rid of all of their staff because they said AI could do all their work. And now they've, 18 months later, they admitted they were completely wrong and they're trying to hire them way they highre their way back up to it again.
00:12:49
Speaker
Bit of a nightmare. To me, the best message that I can give to anyone looking at AI is how can you make your existing staff more productive? Nothing about getting rid of people.
00:13:00
Speaker
It's making the people you've got work better. How can you take away the stress? How can you give them the time and the mental space to do the bit that humans do really well, to add value to all of that information around you? and how And therefore, what you have to do to give them that space. How can you use AI or a new word that a lot of people are throwing around, been around for a little is called agentic AI.
00:13:26
Speaker
And agentic AI is basically building tools. In the old days, we used to call automation to agents. Agentic AI is about building these tools with a limited set of goals, but they have the ability to adapt as the situation changes. They have the ability to learn and My business partner who's based in Armenia that I work with a lot, you know he says to me, well, we're going to have a swarm of agentic AIs and then we're going to have a swarm of but can have a smaller number that control those tools and then a smaller number that control those ones, all with a different bent.
00:13:57
Speaker
And what we're going to do is juggling them all so that we end up getting the best information in front of the right person at the right time, give the client the best experience that we can possibly give.
00:14:08
Speaker
whilst making us more efficient, more productive, whilst identifying opportunities where we could cut costs, whilst identifying opportunities to generate revenue. And this is where we're starting to come into the realm of what I wrote to you about, which the business brain.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yes.
Gut Instinct vs. Data-Driven Decisions
00:14:24
Speaker
See, when I hear the term business brain, I can think back to when I started my career and business brain would almost be referred to someone who was making business decisions that worked, but they were making business decisions based on gut instinct or this feeling that they had.
00:14:44
Speaker
And that was interpreted as meaning a business brain. You made decisions that...
00:14:51
Speaker
Michael, you have um experience and gut feel. Yes. the the two and So there's intuition that made it an exceptionally good businessman, but the rest of it was gut feel and experience.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. And now, when I listen to you describe what all these different parts of the latest technologies will do, a business brain is going to be much more analytical than the emotional brain that happened before.
00:15:21
Speaker
A business brain now is someone who can look at a spreadsheet and see the bit that is the bit that's got to be worried about, that one cell or that one area of the spreadsheet that is going to cause the problem or is causing the problem and be able to then use their experience and intuition to combine with the data to find the solution.
00:15:44
Speaker
So I suppose it's not going to be very much... i mean, we caught we we started off calling this business brain the digital twin of an organisation because it emulated the physical digital twins. You know, Rolls-Royce build their motors in in a digital environment so that they can break them without spending millions and millions of pounds on every time they break it. they They're wanting to test their envelope so that they can see what breaks and what doesn't, so that they can build that into...
00:16:11
Speaker
the um physical object that they eventually build. um and the tech And the term digital twin of an organization has crept in of late. And to me, that is the start of this this business brain.
00:16:24
Speaker
um But what we are doing is we are building that based on facts and in a really good digital twin. You're not only building it based on facts, but you're using it and feeding it with facts every single day.
00:16:39
Speaker
Its experience is based on the mass of information, the mass of data that you put into that. It's not ah it' not going to the internet and putting it in. It uses what it's been trained on internet tools, to actually become really, really clever.
00:16:53
Speaker
But you are feeding it with the data about your business that gives it the experience. The intuition side of the and the gut feel side comes from, it plays through these scenarios and comes up with predictive outcomes.
00:17:09
Speaker
So it says, if this happened and this happened and this happened, it's likely this is going to happen next. Was that right? And it tests these at unbelievable, pace so that it can come up with a way of predicting outcomes.
00:17:22
Speaker
And then the next bit is to say, well, okay, so that's not just what's really important. What we also want to know is if I make a change, what is the likely effect of that? So it's simulating potential outcomes. So predicting is using data that we're doing things now to say, if we don't do anything different, this is going to this is going to happen.
00:17:40
Speaker
um Simulation is where you start to make changes to core elements, like the number of people you have, or the type of system you use, or the technology, or the distance or whatever it is you're going to throw in, what will happen to that process effectively? Because a process is what makes, you know, the interlocking of all these processes is what makes every business unique.
00:18:02
Speaker
And very few businesses have exactly the same processes. Otherwise, we just have an amorphous business that everyone did the same thing. That's true. It's very true. But it's this, the computer, I suppose, is testing and failing fast, faster than you could if you built it.
00:18:20
Speaker
So you should be able to learn lessons faster as well. that's so That's very much the early stages of this digital digital twinning world. um But as with everything, if I go back to my early days, because I'm obviously a little bit older than you, because In the first organization that I built, we didn't have email and we didn't have the internet. We had computers and we had early stage networks.
00:18:46
Speaker
But the way that our business ran before internet and email was dramatically different to the way it ran after. situation we got rid of brochures and used websites we got rid of the franking machine not many people on the air are going to remember a franking machine but envelopes through it and used to stamp them they were great fun to use actually when i was on work experience and you're standing there feeding them through and they fly across the room it's great fun to use you don't see very many of them anymore no very very specialist organizations use use them probably in government most of them
00:19:22
Speaker
um So anyway, we got rid of all of those. And as I said, the fax machine also went. Now I'm looking at what I think potentially is coming around the corner through this AI, agentic
The AI Revolution in Business
00:19:32
Speaker
AI.
00:19:32
Speaker
um And having lived through the first one, I think this is going to be bigger. I think this is going to be not only bigger, but faster. It's going to be, we were able to evolve through that previous one because it didn't happen overnight.
00:19:45
Speaker
It happened over a period of months, you know, 18 months maybe that we moved from that we made a decision to stop producing brochures and and go completely website related.
00:19:59
Speaker
I remember going out and buying domain names. It's that feeling I've got at the in my spine at the moment that says, this is huge and it's not going to be an 18 months, it's going to be a very, very short window where this all moves over.
00:20:12
Speaker
And some people are hugely going to benefit and other people risk being left behind. Why is it that people, given all of the technological advances that we have seen over the last 20 or so years, are still reluctant to adopt the latest technologies?
00:20:31
Speaker
Oh, I think technology's got a really bad rep. and And it's slightly self-inflicted by technology. It's also badly inflicted by the people who give it the bad rep. And that's not the not just the technology leaders, that's the business leaders.
00:20:46
Speaker
you know they i'm not going to mention software on here, but there is a particular CRM that many businesses have because the business leadership think it's the right thing to do. The technology team will wring their heads in horror at the thought that this particular thing is going to come through their doors. And yet it's one of the biggest selling CRM systems in the world. And it is so constricting in how it works.
00:21:08
Speaker
But, you know, it's like it's a triumph of marketing over reality. So ah the technology aspect of it, and you know I still think there are lots of organizations that don't use all the capabilities of PowerPoint or of Word or of Excel, because I don't think many people get themselves trained in how to use it. it's but Michael, PowerPoint is a wonderful example.
00:21:33
Speaker
So the other day I presented to and a potential new client. And one of the people with me said, how then did you manage to get that presentation so quickly? And I just looked to them blankly and I said, well, I just typed my basic presentation into PowerPoint in in in white space in the background.
00:21:50
Speaker
And then I asked PowerPoint, I put a theme over the top of it of some sort of colouring that I like. so it applies that to all the cells, all the slides. And then I just go slide by slide in designer view and I go, that looks nice. No, let's change it to that one.
00:22:02
Speaker
And mentally, I'm just keeping going. Now, that's PowerPoint. I'm not paying any extra for that. Yes, there are other tools like beautiful AI that will do all that for me, but I haven't had great experiences with them. So I can change completely the context of what I was presenting in the first place. So I've tended to go back a bit, but that's possibly another example where the technology is running before the action actually identifying what the need is. So sometimes the first adopters, the early adopters, can be people who want the novelty of something but aren't learning and understanding how to use it.
00:22:38
Speaker
And even after many years, we still have people, and myself included, who don't know all of the capabilities of PowerPoint or Excel, these sorts of things. And yet, as a training manager, I would organize lots of training courses for people that had to learn them.
00:22:54
Speaker
Never quite got to go on one of them myself, really. happy one But this is where in this world of AI and agentic AI, which is coming like a steam train down towards all of us.
00:23:07
Speaker
The first thing that I advise everyone is if you haven't got it, is start building your DTO, start building your business model, start building your business brain, because you need to understand everything.
00:23:19
Speaker
in one way in one way or another, you need to understand where the need is, where the low hanging fruit is, where is the stuff that you can make the biggest difference, the quickest. And you can't do that by just sitting around the board table and saying, oh, I think we should we should automate the mail room.
00:23:37
Speaker
You can't do that. you've got to You've got to understand how your people, how your processes, how your systems all interact. And then you throw into that risk compliance, you throw into it physical assets, you throw into technology uses, you know all of these things.
00:23:54
Speaker
If you have a DTO, if you have a digital twin, if you have a business brain, It will help you identify where are the biggest issues and where could you gain the most yeah by adopting some sort of AI tool. And the second piece of that where do you start the second piece of advice I have for anyone is start small.
00:24:19
Speaker
Do not try and rework the whole business in one go. Start small. Understand what you're doing. And the third bit is not going to come from a technology provider.
00:24:30
Speaker
You can't go and buy it from Microsoft. You can't go and buy it from Amazon. You can't go and buy it from Salesforce. They've got lots of things that you might use, but nobody sells a technology that's going to start being your silver bullet.
AI as a Digital Twin in Organizations
00:24:43
Speaker
People used to talk about the business brain being an individual human being who made instinctive decisions based upon their experience and they worked. What you're talking about as a business brain is a piece of technology that's a digital twin of the organization.
00:24:59
Speaker
that contains lots and lots of data about your organization and will start to help you understand the organization. So it's not a replacement for any decision maker or anyone within the organization.
00:25:12
Speaker
It actually could make it possible for people to work smarter rather than harder. Look at how you can make your business, your business people, how you can make them more productive. And one of them is to augment the the information that they have to make decisions. And that doesn't have to be just people on the coalface. That could be people in the boardroom.
00:25:32
Speaker
People across the whole organization, even the people on production lines. Absolutely. everywhere isi everywhere. You know, the first thing, if I'm, automation is one of the key elements. So whether it's agentic automation or good old-fashioned automation, you know automation, AI automation has been around for 30 plus years. So manufacturing and using automation and robotic process automation, these are all aspects of AI.
00:25:56
Speaker
The difference now is that these tools can teach themselves how to be better, but they are still there to do something that we've come up with. Now, you could get You could start to imagine a situation where a number of different agents start teaching each other how to be better.
00:26:13
Speaker
But I would keep that under control until you're really confident. that what you're doing is better. Yes, that sounds like it's a development for the next time, so to speak. Correct.
00:26:25
Speaker
There are still lots of organizations who are still only dipping their toe into the water of this, developing their digital twin of their organization and getting a business brain.
00:26:37
Speaker
But it's really very interesting, Philip.
Contact Information and Closing Remarks
00:26:42
Speaker
ah Where can people find more information about you? Well, I've got and um'm ah so a small business. I've got a small website called Intellidat with one L, Intellidat.net. Right.
00:26:53
Speaker
um right But, you know, but I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm a fairly prolific writer on LinkedIn. though I think LinkedIn tell me that everyone lurks and just peers at what I do because nobody really engages with it hugely.
00:27:06
Speaker
And people can just get involved. If you have a question you want to ask, get in touch. I love talking to people, as you can hear on this, and I'm always open to it. I do have anyone who listens to this, and where are we sort of May 2025? If you are thinking about doing a digital twin and you are in the SME market, we are looking for some active participants to test some of our newest technology on, which is how do we build technology?
00:27:32
Speaker
the basics of the digital twin? How do we import stuff into the digital twin from your from your um from all your files? right Could we even sort of just scan around and find out what import organograms and and departments and SOPs and process maps and anything that people have?
00:27:54
Speaker
How can we do it? Because that's been one of the biggest barriers is trying to understand how to build the DTO before everyone loses interest in it. Sounds very interesting. But for today, Philip, thank you very much. You've helped me make such an interesting episode of The Independent Minds. Thank you.
00:28:11
Speaker
Michael, thank you very much. Love being on it. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abucida, and in this episode of The Independent Minds, I have been having a conversation with Philip Milne from Intellidat.net.
00:28:27
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us at abucida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Philip.
00:28:38
Speaker
If you're a podcaster looking for interesting guests or someone like Philip who has done something very interesting, Matchmaker is where great guests and great hosts are matched and even greater podcasts are hatched.
00:28:52
Speaker
You'll find a link and a membership discount code in the description. That description is well worth reading. I'm sure that you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Philip and I have enjoyed making it.
00:29:06
Speaker
Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.