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From Silence to Strength: Journey of Healing and Empowerment Through Emotional Vulnerability (feat. Terry Snyder)
225 Plays1 year ago
***TRIGGER WARNING - THIS EPISODE TALKS ABOUT SUICIDE***
Welcome back to another episode of The Therapy4Dads Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Goodman, and today we have a very powerful and heartfelt episode in store for you. Our guest today is Terry Snyder, who has a remarkable story of personal transformation and the healing power of vulnerability. Terry is a devoted husband to Wendy Snyder and a proud father who believes in the power of a fresh start. Recognizing the positive impact his wife had on their own family, Terry's passion grew to reach families worldwide by promoting peace in their homes. Inspired by a friend's suggestion, they started hosting podcasts together, with Terry specifically aiming to be a voice for fathers, a much-needed perspective in the field. Initially expecting to handle technical aspects, Terry soon discovered the freedom and fulfillment that comes with being on the show. Over the past few years, Terry and Wendy have enjoyed producing numerous episodes and hosting incredible guests, including the reader. Excited and committed to making a difference, they are fully engaged in the game.
In this episode, Terry shares about his childhood home, family of origin, school, and relationships. He opens up about his own journey of self-discovery and the profound impact that a group experience had on his life. Through anonymity and lack of judgment, Terry found the space to be open and vulnerable, leading to a deep realization of their purpose and a desire to help others. He shares his experiences attending weekend courses, finding a therapist, and the importance of confronting and addressing emotions, rather than suppressing them. Additionally, Terry shares his own personal experiences with family dynamics, relationships, and finding one's identity amidst societal expectations. Join us as we delve into Terry's story and uncover the transformative power of healing and growth. Stay tuned, this is an episode you won't want to miss.
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Transcript
Introduction to Therapy for Dads Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
And I'm telling you, I'm on the other side of so much of this. And I look at life so differently. I'm looking at my son's journey, 12 years old right now. My daughter's journey, 15 years old right now. And I'm in such a better place to be able to come alongside of them as a dad, having dealt with all these things. Cause you may package it up and say, that doesn't, that won't matter.
00:00:24
Speaker
in their life, but it does, it affects everything. It affects everything. This is a Therapy for Dads podcast. I am your host. My name is Travis. I'm a therapist, a dad, a husband. Here at Therapy for Dads, we provide content around the integration of holistic mental health, well-researched evidence-based education, and parenthood. Welcome.
00:00:52
Speaker
Welcome, everybody, to this week's episode of the Therapy for Dad's podcast.
Meeting Terry and Fresh Start Family Connection
00:00:56
Speaker
I wanted to welcome a new friend and new guest, someone that we've been connecting with probably over the past, I don't know, six to eight months, maybe even 12 months, kind of following the work that he and his wife have been doing, as well as getting to know him a bit personally. And so we've had some conversations and thought it would be a really important, needed conversation to have on the podcast.
00:01:21
Speaker
And before I jump into the topic, I wanted to first welcome Terry. So welcome, Terry. Thanks so much, Travis. Yeah, it's really great to be here. And I'm so glad that we connected. I think we definitely hit it off when we had you on the Fresh Start family show. So I'm happy to be here on yours.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. So there's the pitch. He's on fresh start family show, which is what, what does that show for those that don't know?
Terry's Role in Family Advocacy
00:01:44
Speaker
My wife, Wendy Snyder, she, she is fresh start family, fresh start Wendy. She really transformed our family dynamic inside, but then also had a calling to really reach as many families around the world to.
00:01:57
Speaker
crease piece in their homes too. We got an idea from a friend a few years back that said, you two should host a podcast and talk about this stuff. And she thought that I would be a good voice for dads out there, because it's a much needed voice. And so I said, Sure, I'll dive in. At first, I thought it would just be on the technical side, making sure mics were right and doing all that stuff. But I found it was
00:02:21
Speaker
It was a really freeing, healthy kind of space to be in. And so Wendy and I have had a great time doing it over the past couple of years. We got a lot of episodes and had a lot of incredible people on the show like yourself. So yeah, so what we're in, we're in the game.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, and it was great being on your guys' show and being able to talk a bit more about kind of some mental health topics and men and emotions and kind of going there with you guys. And if you don't already follow them, it's a great show and I do agree. I've listened to quite a few and you've had some amazing conversations on there with some phenomenal guests talking about really important topics that I think that parents face, that parents might not know how to address or what to do or how to navigate. But having these kind of dialogues can really help make you think outside the
00:03:06
Speaker
kind of outside of what you might be thinking and giving you some other ideas of how to address whatever's going on in the home. And can you tell us a bit more about what you do kind of outside of that, like your dad?
Fatherhood and Professional Life Balance
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, I'm a dad, you know, I definitely like to put that first. You know, if you're talking about priorities, you know, being a great dad is the thing that I'm here on earth to do. But I'm a creative director by trade, so I lead a creative department at a sunglass company.
00:03:33
Speaker
Over the years, I've worked mainly in some aspect of sports or a brand that promotes sports from skateboarding, to surfing, to NBA, to golf, to a lot of things. So I've been able to do a lot of cool visual projects within that space. And I like the priorities. Dad, for you, is a top priority. And then your kind of occupation comes second, is what I'm hearing.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it does. And then I mean, I even try to blur the lines as much as I can just to expose my kids to like what it looks like, you know, on the other side of school and everything like that. I'll bring my kids on shoots when it's appropriate or things like that just to kind of just, hey, it's
00:04:16
Speaker
fun to have them along but also like I think about you know there's this big barrier sometimes between childhood and adulthood and I just love to blur the lines I mean I'm trying to remain as young as possible too so I'm like I constantly try to surround myself with young people at work and I'm around you know so
00:04:32
Speaker
It's kind of cool when I get to do that. But yes, dad is definitely number one. And it's an honor to be a dad, first and foremost. Just to be blessed with the opportunity to do that is incredible. And then I just look at my two kids and I just want the best for them. We get one shot at this. And life is messy, too. So I'm just like, OK, well, let's get in there and do that.
00:05:00
Speaker
look at it from all angles. So yeah, I think that kind of goes back to like, you know, Wendy's calling to, you know, leave her old career behind and really dive fully into, you know, transformational parenting as like a new language and doing, you know,
00:05:16
Speaker
positive parenting is something that you know helped us so let's just stay in that let's stay in that space so yeah i try to i try to not like you know get too distant from even being a dad even when i'm you know step away from work because i just want to live in that space i want to be the best i can and yeah always learning
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, I like that the blurring the lines between your role as a father and your role in kind of marketing and kind of helping your kids see that. And I do agree, sometimes there's such a big gap between childhood and adulthood, but I think it's awesome. What a great model to have them kind of get a taste of what it might look like outside of school, high school, you know, college and things. I think that's genius, actually, to bring them along and to see what dad does and be a part of that involved and kind of see how the world works within outside of typical, you
Masculinity and Family Dynamics
00:06:07
Speaker
know, school.
00:06:07
Speaker
And so the topic for today kind of coming to why I wanted to have you on, it's similar to the theme of what you and your wife have been doing and what Wendy has been doing with this idea of positive parenting, similar in the sense, different, but more about honing in on your journey as a man and around the idea of masculinity, what it looks like to be quote unquote strong versus quote unquote weak.
00:06:34
Speaker
and so we've talked offline about that and hearing your story i think is it's a powerful one is just like how you guys have shifted from your old parenting model to what wendy really helped and kind of you are also highly involved with because it wouldn't really work it was just wendy doing this with your kiddos but
00:06:53
Speaker
you as well. There's this kind of evolution, so to speak, from where you were and who you guys are now. And I think the same goes for who Terry is now versus who Terry was when he was 5, 10, 15, right? So I'd love if we could just start to kind of talk about what that evolution has been like for you on your kind of journey as a man.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know, I'll give the flyby on some parts of my life. I know this isn't a therapy session, but feel free to stop me anywhere. If you're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, back to that, you know, so if I'm if I'm too quick, set one place or go too long on another and you're interested, just, you know, call it out. I mean, it's it's a it's a life story packaged into a short amount of time. So
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I grew up as a younger brother in a family, pretty, you know, semi-typical family. But if I could describe myself, you know, I definitely was, you know, I was a feeler. I wouldn't say I was overly sensitive, but I definitely have a lot of memories. I remember everything.
00:07:56
Speaker
So, you know, I can tell you so much about my childhood and all the things that kind of like little pivotal moments and even just dreams I had as a kid. So, you know, I definitely was feeling my way through life as a young kid in elementary school, having a great time, a lot of fun, you know.
00:08:15
Speaker
I feel like I was always goofing around. I was always just memorizing songs and jingles and advertising and all these things which came into play later in my profession, which it served me later. My parents split up when I was in middle school. I remember when they decided that
00:08:40
Speaker
you know they were separating in some way I kind of knew I always like looked at my parents and said wow these are two very different people how does that work you know so when it was kind of validated that it wasn't working I was like oh okay yeah it
00:08:55
Speaker
It's not working, you know? My sister took it very rough. I kind of, you know, looking back on it, I kind of just, you know, put it down, kept moving with my life, tried to keep things positive. You know, I definitely have...
00:09:13
Speaker
you know, after doing a lot of work later, much later in life, you know, I look back and I had all these protections that I did that, you know, to kind of just make a joke or kind of keep things light and moving in life. I also, you know, throughout elementary school, middle school, high school, you know, there was my side of exploring who I was through sports.
00:09:37
Speaker
And there was also just like what seemed okay and not okay just as a personal, you know, from a personal perspective. So, you know, I can remember, I always just wanted to dress up and do different things. And I'd see a hairstyle and I wanted that and I wanted that. And I remember sometimes there was pushback on that, not necessarily for my parents, but like, you know, my mom, I love it. She let me be whoever I wanted to. But, you know, I can remember being like,
00:10:03
Speaker
i want i remember this vividly of like i went from being like i want billy idol's hair which is like a spiked hairdo which is like okay we can do that yeah i remember at another point i was like i want prince's haircut you know and it being like well in order to do that we gotta curl your hair yeah
00:10:21
Speaker
And I was like, okay. And I remember seeing I was surrounded by women. My dad was gone a lot working, but I had older sister, my mom, my grandmother was by herself, a lot of strong women. And then there was, you know, girls, my mom's goddaughter, things like that. They'd come over, get their hair permed, things like that.
00:10:41
Speaker
I was like, yeah, I'm in, like, curl my hair, things like that. And I remember doing it and being like, you get reactions from people outside of my home. I was just like, you're doing that? Like, it was like this. That's weird. That's, you know, I remember dressing up. It was okay to like go in one part of the closet and grab dad's stuff. But if I grab mom's stuff, oh, like, you know, like,
00:11:08
Speaker
That that's something you don't want to let people know and you know I didn't grow up to be you know cross dress or anything like that I think I just was like I was just open to like dress up hairstyles all of these things but I found that like what I thought was okay what maybe my mom thought was okay society didn't think was okay.
00:11:30
Speaker
You know, and then there's this once you feel as a kid dislike being made fun of for something like that, then you're like, oh, there's rules that I didn't know about out in the world of who a guy is supposed to
Sports as Emotional Outlets
00:11:45
Speaker
be. Yeah.
00:11:46
Speaker
So there's that going on. And then there's, you know, through sports, you know, I, the sports that I chose, I dabbled in a lot of little things, but then the things that I latched on to were ice hockey and lacrosse. And, you know, I don't know that I call it a sport, but I also love skateboarding.
00:12:06
Speaker
There wasn't an organ on it. Well, it is. But, you know, it's a it's a hot topic. Like, even within skateboarding, they, you know, a lot of skateboarders don't want to be called. Yeah. It's a whole lifestyle. It's a whole subculture. We could have a podcast just talking about skateboarding. Yeah, I should. Actually, that would be fun.
00:12:23
Speaker
we should and the differences of what I found like we're talking about like what was okay and what's not okay yeah within skateboarding versus say team sports but yeah so anyways ice hockey and lacrosse you know and my especially my positions I found within those sports
00:12:40
Speaker
I was defense. I was the person who was physically hitting people a lot in lacrosse. My whole job was to chop people's hands and wrists until they dropped the ball. And if somebody got in your space, you put them on their back. Yeah. And hockey was similar, but, and I was good at it. So, you know, here on one side, there's this kid who wants to curl his hair like Prince and
00:13:05
Speaker
do be very expressive and then I in my sports it was very like you know like and it also the sports provided an outlet to it was like hey here's a safe space to do that yes you can't you have to follow the rules you can't do it this way this way this way but if you got some anger in you boom boy that does that feel good to put somebody into the boards or like yeah whatever yeah
00:13:29
Speaker
So in general, that was kind of the kid through elementary school, going into middle school. I'm so thankful my mom allowed me to have all the haircuts that I wanted and do all the things. But I do remember people finding out that I curled my hair when I was in fifth grade, even after years later when I'm in middle school and being like,
00:13:53
Speaker
not that again type of thing or stuff like that. So anyways, I think there was, I just wished I could push some of that down. And then I think after there was an awareness that certain things weren't okay, you start to hide certain parts of yourself and maybe be a little less expressive than you once were. So that kind of takes you to that time when my parents split.
00:14:22
Speaker
And that was probably my first opportunity to be invited into a space to say, hey, Terry, mom and dad are splitting up. We have somebody that you could talk to about all of this. And so my mom and dad said, you know, we have a family therapist that we've seen. We'd like you to go see her. And so I remember being like, oh, that's interesting. And I did it. And I can't say.
00:14:50
Speaker
It was great or not great. I just, in retrospect, looking at it was like, you know,
00:14:59
Speaker
hey, there's already enough problems going on. If the sooner I can get to fine, I feel like we'll be okay. Mom and dad's relationship is obviously severed. My sister's taking this really hard. The sooner I can get okay, the sooner all of this gets okay. So I think I checked the box.
00:15:23
Speaker
Okay. I checked the box, you know? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's, that was, that was kind of in a very quick nutshell, elementary school and middle school, kind of like some of the bigger dynamics or a play and, and those types of things.
00:15:38
Speaker
And I think what I'm hearing is, you know, you just trying to find yourself in the world, right? And kind of who Terry is, likes, dislikes, just expression, what does it look like, whether it's in hair, clothing to now, you know, fitting in or not fitting in in school versus home, right? It's, you have these different environments that you're in, like the home environment, you got the school environment, then you got sports environment, right?
00:16:00
Speaker
And so you mentioned earlier some of these rules. You were having this realization of what it means to be a boy or a male, so to speak, or what it means to be masculine within that space. Can you speak more into that? Yeah, sure. I think the rules seem to be you had to
00:16:23
Speaker
your look had to be within a range that was acceptable. Don't go too far outside of that, or expect to be talked about. Okay, so if you're outside of this range, expect to be talked about in a negative way, you mean? Yeah, or just the topic of conversation, and then you're gonna get probably a spectrum. It was like, yeah, it's like I watched, I loved seeing music videos and all this stuff, and it felt like people could be literally anything.
00:16:53
Speaker
But then in real life, people were all just shades of like vanilla ice cream, you know? And so that was a little confusing to me growing up because, you know, it's one of those things that are like, it's probably another version of like, Hey, I want to be an astronaut and be like, yeah.
00:17:10
Speaker
you know what that's something that people just see on tv you don't really do that it was my version of being like i want to look like that person or like i want to dress like prince or like this or like you know like you're like well that's not something you really do that's that's just on tv type of thing so that was an interesting one to to discover that like you know that you could get like a negative
00:17:33
Speaker
reaction from just trying to live out or express yourself in Something that wasn't didn't seem that weird to me. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah Yeah, but you were finding pushback sounds like outside of your home from school culture maybe sports culture where again you have these this is the range and you must be a shade of vanilla within here and if and if you're outside of that then you know, there's some type of
00:18:00
Speaker
being talked about or anything else that you that you saw that would happen if you're outside of that besides being talked about was there anything else that you
00:18:07
Speaker
Well, I mean, look, I think the the yin to my yang on that was like I was a I was a tough enough kid that I wasn't going to get like, you know, physically like had I been a different kid, I probably would have been bullied a lot more physically. I could I felt like I could handle myself. So like it never was like something that was going to come to that, although I always feared it would. You know, I think I walked around
00:18:33
Speaker
you know, from the time I think I saw my first like fight, you're like, oh, I gotta be ready for that.
00:18:41
Speaker
And, you know, I thought that was a part of manhood too, that it was like, oh, well, the day's going to come. You better be ready. Always be ready for that, that like worst case scenario. And so I think that dances around in your head as something uncomfortable and unexpected that you have to be ready to like throw down and like,
00:19:03
Speaker
defend whatever you're being made fun of for or you know eventually it became all kinds of other reasons too but you know i think it starts with that is like if somebody is going to say something about you you got to be ready to fight
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That was what was expected of men or boys that you saw. Like, this is what it means to be a man, that you're going to have to do this one day. It's just a matter of time, so I'm going to walk around kind of expecting or on guard, so to speak, that at any moment it can happen, and I might have to throw down. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
It was and the sports that I played were very aggressive. The music that I really gravitated towards was really aggressive. I got into probably when I was 10 ish.
00:19:56
Speaker
It was heavy metal, but then it turned into hardcore and punk music all through middle school, high school, and even now. Hardcore music was my thing. The moment I discovered the pit, all these things, I don't know. That's somewhat what life is about. Eventually, you're going to have to
00:20:19
Speaker
You're going to have to use your body to defend yourself or to like hold your ground or hold your space. And, you know, I had already felt that somewhat in organized sports, but I was like, even beyond that in life, it was going to be even a more dramatic version of that, you know? And God forbid, like you were caught off guard or you were going to lose a fight or something like that. Like the world would be over, you know?
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, and you mentioned with your parents kind of splitting, being a kid who is more wired, so to speak, your radar was more sensitive to emotions in a way, picking up more in that way of sensitivity. You have more frequencies that you were able to kind of pick up.
00:21:00
Speaker
And then, so there's a lot going on I'm hearing with this Terry, this kind of child, this early teen, is that trying to find out who he is within this realm and liking expression that was kind of what you were seeing on music videos, but then the real world is saying, well, no, that's not okay. You still need to be vanilla, although mom and friends were okay with it. So you had kind of this ability to do it, but then once you left home, can't do that. So, okay, I can't do that.
00:21:27
Speaker
And then at any moment, what it means to be a guy is I'm gonna have to fight one day, physically, like to defend myself or, you know, stand my ground on whatever it might be, maybe over my hair or, you know, you know, a piece of clothing I want to wear that someone may not like it, I have to fight, you know, and within all that too, you, there's this other piece of you that said, I just wanted to make sure I was okay, that you mentioned earlier, and kind of just push things down and keep moving, because everyone else in my family is having a harder time. So I just want to push things down and I want to keep moving, because as soon as I'm okay, they're okay.
00:21:56
Speaker
And so I just kind of even did this motion really kind of put it down. So did that, like how did that play out in your life of just being quote unquote okay and kind of putting certain things down and moving on to kind of keep moving?
High School Relationships and Emotional Impact
00:22:11
Speaker
Like what did that look like? How did that play out? What kind of impact did it have on you growing up?
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. So high school, I think for most people is a pivotal time. I think for me, it was extremely testing. You know, so my, my sister went away to college. My dad moved out. I would see him, you know, maybe every other weekend, but it was just me and my mom and my mom didn't move on from the.
00:22:35
Speaker
the divorce super smoothly. She, I could sense a sadness with her. So there was more of this, like, okay, now I'm kind of the, the man of the house and I'm also here to try to like lift spirits. Okay. So, so I kind of took on that role. And then within high school, you know, I think the things that you're trying to do then are, you know, okay, I'm trying to get grades and trying to do the, you know,
00:23:02
Speaker
The ever evolving social kind of atmosphere and then you're also seeking you're seeking girls and you're seeking love, you know, and so while I had, you know, several like kind of like, you know, middle school girlfriends and like,
00:23:20
Speaker
people that you liked and we talk on the phone with and, you know, whatever I, you know, each time you look at them and you're like, is, is this it? Is this it? And I happened to, you know, meet a girl in, it was my, I guess it was my sophomore year, like just starting my sophomore year of high school. And I was like, whoa, you know.
00:23:41
Speaker
fell in love with her, you know, and she, you know, she was she was incredible. And, you know, I she had similar, you know, friends of mine. I never knew she even existed, which was kind of strange because I knew her sister and it was just like out of the blue. This, you know, came into my life now entering a relationship.
00:24:02
Speaker
You know, with all that was going on in my home life, I so badly just wanted things to go right. You know, I watched my parents split up. I just was like, you know, I just wanted it to go right. What did that mean? Wanting it to go right? What would that mean? If it went right, it would look like what?
00:24:19
Speaker
I think, you know, she would feel the same way that I did that people would, you know, they're men are competitive too. So even though I was always paranoid that there was going to be somebody else that was interested in her because why wouldn't they be? So I think there was this paranoia that like she would somehow become uninterested in me at some point or that, you know, again, it was this like very like competitive
00:24:46
Speaker
male game that I had in my head and to some degree I feel like it was real and there was probably a lot that was just made up too. So I entered this relationship kind of just like, oh, if this is it, I got to hold on really tight to it.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, because then getting your home at the time was dad wasn't there, your sister just moved away, your mom's struggling, and you're just trying to make the helm like be okay, right? Yeah, and I have an opportunity now to have a relationship. I certainly didn't want it to go the way that my parents would. Yeah, right. So I got to make it work and cling on.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Now, you know, you don't necessarily know all the things about the person that you're dating, you know, when you decide, you know, this is it, what I started to learn about her past was she had a rough past, you know, she, she had been to something like 15 schools in 15 years, her dad left her
00:25:44
Speaker
her and her two other sisters and mom, you know, early on. She had a stepdad now who was a cool guy, but it was, it had been a rough road for her and she was the oldest of the siblings, so she took on a lot of the like, she became kind of a second mom, very young. Now, as I got to know her better, I realized that she was, you know, she had parts of her that felt very sad at some times and, you know, learning about like this childhood, I was like,
00:26:13
Speaker
oh wow yeah she's been through a lot she she you know you know tried to take her own life as at age 10 by swallowing a ton of like pills her parents sent her her mom sent her to a place where she was
00:26:29
Speaker
you know, a young kid with a bunch of other troubled kids. They made fun of her. They threw her in a trash can. They did all kinds of things. So she had, I think, a lot of ambitions of what life would be and very low self-worth and had a lot of things going on. Looking back now, how was your little 10th grade brain processing all of that information? That's right. That's very heavy, very real, very okay. She had the hard stuff. Like, what was going on inside of you as you were hearing her go through this and talk about her life?
00:26:58
Speaker
I think I just, I mean, I knew it wasn't normal, but at the same time it was like, well, maybe this is what growing up looks like is that, you know, life is super messy and messier for some than others, but you, you step into it, be strong for the other person and you hold on tight and you,
00:27:22
Speaker
you don't it's yeah it was it was definitely a lot but I think once you get past a certain point of you know caring for someone you don't care you just still do anything for them and anything to cheer them up and anything to be there for them and so and you also I think I started to feel like well hey here I'm the bright ray of sunshine you're like that was in the past we're good now like like
00:27:53
Speaker
all that's gone. And as you know, that stuff just doesn't erase just because somebody walks into your life no matter how much chemistry or care you have. She had a lot that doesn't matter who walked into her life that she was gonna deal with for the rest of her life. But I just thought, oh, okay.
00:28:18
Speaker
Here I am. Ah, you know. Yeah, it was like hard, but also in your mind, it was like, okay, here, we're good. Let's move us. Okay. This in the past, let's go kind of almost different, but some of your family like, I'm just going to be okay. And let's just keep going. You know, which is not a, I think it's just kind of, which makes sense when you're, I think for a lot of us in 10th grade or even a total of like, just, it's all right. We'll just keep going, which I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. I think it's just a way of coping and let's just keep going. I'm going to be positive and make sure everyone's all right. And one foot in front of the other and make sure people are okay.
00:28:47
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so that's kind of the way I carried on, you know, it was a two and a half, three year relationship. And so through high school, pretty much all the way through through high school, it it's, and through that time, I mean, I, there's, there was a lot of ups and downs, you know, the downs included, you know, lots of.
00:29:12
Speaker
You know, pain for sure. You know, she tried to end her life a few times while I was with her a number of different ways. And, you know, I saw the inside of hospitals, you know, and all the things that come along with, with, with that. So that was, that was, that was like, it was, it was bizarre. It was like you were living in some sort of a movie. It was unpredictable. Again, I think I couldn't fully.
00:29:42
Speaker
relax most days. Cause if, if a day, if it was a possibility that a day could end like that, holy crap. Yeah.
00:29:52
Speaker
You know, there was a lot of numbing on my side. You know, I just assumed everybody kind of, you know, drank and did stuff in high school. But I think, you know, probably some people did it for laughs, which maybe there was some of that in there. But there was definitely numbing that was going on for me just to kind of like
00:30:14
Speaker
cope and, you know, work my way through that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like, yeah, definitely coping me from like this anxiety, this, you know, how's today going to go? I mean, I'm hearing, I'm imagining this kind of tension, constant tension of caring about this girl really genuinely. Right. And as well as, are we going to end up in the hospital again? And this is a movie and I don't want anything to happen. And so, and then I'm guessing stuff at your home too, dealing with all that of just mom still and dad gone.
00:30:44
Speaker
Were you talking anybody at the time? I mean, did you was that kind of a thing to talk to people? You know, hey, I'm going through some stuff and hey, can I talk to you about it? Or was that just not even on your radar? I think you know, I had like a couple of my best guy friends that would be kind of up on what was going on But there wasn't really like long talks. I think it was like hey, let's get on to the
00:31:08
Speaker
the party and feeling better side of things and not that they were being insensitive to it. I just don't think I don't, you know, I wasn't equipped to deal with it. I don't, they definitely weren't equipped to deal with anything like that. And, you know, if, and then if doctors weren't equipped to deal with what she was going through, like who was, you know? So I think, yeah, it was just kind of like, keep moving, do what you can to have fun, be paranoid about,
00:31:38
Speaker
what could derail her or our relationship and kind of just live in this like this space that I don't know. I just didn't even know what like adulthood like what was on the other side of that like because for myself too I think it it clouded my vision of like
00:31:57
Speaker
what does life look like beyond high school? What is all this because I'm like, this is crazy. This is crazy. I just held onto that. I didn't see a therapist in high school. I saw that therapist in middle school, my parents split, and then I'll fast forward some time. But I did get to a point where I felt like as I was graduating high school,
00:32:26
Speaker
and my girlfriend had already graduated. I just was like, I am going to go to college. The likelihood of us being together through that whole experience I thought was semi-low, even though I didn't know what life would look like without her. I just was like, I knew it was unhealthy. I didn't want to turn my back on her, but it just was kind of like,
00:32:50
Speaker
I'm going to go away to school far away. And so she decided to move to California. I was in Maryland at the time I moved to Arizona to go to college. I went there.
00:33:04
Speaker
and started college and it was it was a rough year or so of isolation from my friends trying to adapt to a big school being without her. Do I still want to be with her? Do I not? I definitely wasn't like moving on in my head like and
00:33:26
Speaker
So yeah, it was a wild year of trying to get myself on a new trajectory of life with my own. And I was very much alone, I felt like. I have to mention it because it was just a godsend that the one person that wrote me letters was a platonic friend of mine from high school and her name was Wendy.
00:33:50
Speaker
And she wrote me letters and she said, I hope we can see each other this summer. And so my first summer after my freshman year of college, we hung out. And about a month before I went back to, back to school for my sophomore year, my freshman year went horribly grade wise. I'd never gotten that, that, that a graze in my life. Things changed for Wendy and I, and we started dating on my birthday.
00:34:15
Speaker
But a month later, I had to leave. So it was this jolt of like, wow, something new. And then I went back to college alone, not sure what to do about this new relationship that I was very excited about and like in love with this girl.
Trauma and Long-Lasting Effects
00:34:33
Speaker
And then my roommate sat me down and said that my high school girlfriend Kira had taken her life and she died by suicide.
00:34:43
Speaker
And even talking to you about this now, like, and I think that's kind of the big message within this story is like, I dealt with it the way that I thought I needed to deal with it. My parents sent me back to that same therapist, but I very much
00:35:00
Speaker
clawed and fought for isolation, to bury this down, and then again, to just protect this new relationship that I had at all cost. Because if that thing fell apart, oh boy, I really had nothing. I really had nothing. So... It's like survival.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, it was. And I even fought to, I had a lease left on my apartment in Arizona. I decided to drop out of school. I told my parents I had a job and I needed to stay and live out my lease in my apartment. I did not have a job. I just stayed in that apartment by myself for months.
00:35:43
Speaker
And really, you know, it was this this angel of a young woman named Wendy that if you can put together the pieces here, I ended up marrying her and having two kids with her. And we've been together since then, which is incredible. But that was the thing that I was like, OK, I'm going to move back home.
00:36:04
Speaker
I'm going to be close to her. And that's it for me. That's it for me. But getting help came in the form of going to that same therapist that my parents had sent me to earlier. They were pretty quick to issue me some antidepressants. I can't say it really did. I don't know what it did for me. I mean, I was still drinking and numbing and doing whatever. So who knows? Who knows?
00:36:31
Speaker
and I also had a very confusing relationship with antidepressants because I saw it have had a volatile effect on my my old girlfriend and not all I'm not trying to sure sure that but for her and a specific prescription did not react well so I just was kind of like dismissive of that sure pretty dismissive of the the therapy and now for a short break
00:36:57
Speaker
So if you're looking for ways to support the show and my YouTube channel, head on over to BuyMeACoffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. There you can make a one time donation or join the monthly subscription service to support all that I'm doing at the intersection of fatherhood and mental health. And all the proceeds go right back into all the work that I'm doing into production, into
00:37:19
Speaker
continue to grow the show to bring on new guests. So again, head on over to buymeacoffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. Thanks and let's get back to the show.
00:37:29
Speaker
And I'll fast forward a lot. I bottled it up for 20 years. And I was scared to talk to anybody about it. I was scared to say her name. It was about as final as something could be. It's like, whoa, I'm not gonna bring anybody back. So it was just, again, like, you know,
00:37:51
Speaker
get on with life. And honestly, my life really, it took off into a beautiful place. I figured things out. Wendy and I went on this great adventure to end up in California, which we are still today. All of these things really, I believe, even though my faith wasn't the same as it is now, I can look back and say God was right there holding my hand and
00:38:14
Speaker
ushering in these gifts and doing what needed to be done. But actually talking about it didn't happen for so long until I went to a weekend course with a small group.
00:38:29
Speaker
And everybody's bringing some big thing to the table there. And I watched people go through this process and I was like, well, yeah, I guess this is the time to say it and to do it.
00:38:46
Speaker
Because it's 20 years of keeping it down, of not talking, of, well, good things are happening on one hand. You've got this big, like, pack with rocks in it that's just weighing you down and just kind of there, and I have to still have to numb from it. But amazing, it's like two things are happening, two lives. It's an amazing thing with Wendy and life, but this big burden that I'm still numbing from. And you said 20 years, that's a long time. Yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
and scared to talk about it. How do you talk about it? You're right. I can only imagine just like, what do you say? How do you say that to someone or anybody? And then you go to this weekend and you hear people being vulnerable and opening and sharing big things and something clicked in you to say something.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, it was your infinite life. Our friend Pam Dunn, she owns this company that does amazing work. And I was in the classroom with a couple of her instructors in a small group and I, you know,
00:39:43
Speaker
they definitely unpack a lot of different things. It was very clear to me that what my thing would be. I think it also helped that there was a level of anonymity to it also. It wasn't like I was going to say this to a friend and then have to pretend to be normal the next day.
00:40:06
Speaker
I don't know, not that it was like, I don't know that I, it was shameful. I just, you know, if you're going to like lose it and ball and cry in front of somebody, I think it was kind of like, well, these people are all doing it and I'm not judging them. And I don't have to see them on Monday at work or do like, let's, like, let's, let's, let's, let's do it. You know? So yeah, it was, it was an incredible experience just to like,
00:40:33
Speaker
just to say things, to talk about it, to go through that, because there had been all this time too that, you know, I have such a heart to like help people in whether it's, I mean, everybody's situation is different, but even if it's remotely like that, and I could help somebody, whether it's a little version of myself, a teenage kid, or a girl that was feeling like she was, it's like, I'm not, you know,
00:41:03
Speaker
I know I'd have to go and do a lot of hours and, and, you know, get some degrees to actually sit down and like deal with the like extreme version of it. But I was like, in some way, shape or form, I have to help myself and go through this before I can even think about even like helping somebody else here. And I knew I really wanted to get to a space where I could do that one day. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, well, I guess it's time to do what I need to do.
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. So that then one day I can help somebody else. And, you know, so yeah, so that, that was, that was a big deal for me. And I came home, you know, with a lot of those rocks in that backpack out, being able to, you know, talk to Wendy about it. Cause she, you know, she was doing a lot of self-growth work too. You know, I felt, I felt like.
00:41:52
Speaker
you know, we were we were evolving. And this was a part of that for for me. And then, you know, it, it became I, I've done these weekend courses now several times have gone back and assisted, you know, now after, you know, Wendy,
00:42:10
Speaker
you know, doing what she does and being a part of the podcast. It's like now I can be like, Oh, I'm going to call it, you know, my therapist, Dan, when I'm having, you know, an issue and I can talk to him from anything from work to something that happened like this, you know, in my childhood or any of these things. And I just, I know it's actually going to benefit. It's scary being vulnerable, but I know now that the other side of that is so worth it and culturally.
00:42:40
Speaker
You know, and lots of reasons like made it so that my mind thought that that wasn't the case. It was just push it down. Yeah. Time will heal all wounds. Yeah. And you actually need to be there to lift other people up, not the other way around.
00:42:58
Speaker
Uh, yeah, time will push it down. Time will heal all wounds, which is what you were doing from as far back as you can remember with your family and your parents and your mom. Just push it time. Eventually you'll be, and even the girlfriend, it's like, it'll heal. And then even past the girlfriend 20 years later, but you found it wasn't really healing, right? Those rocks didn't go anywhere. They just.
00:43:17
Speaker
They just kept adding, they became weightier and weightier and weightier in your body and your system. And then you had this epiphany, you know, seeing these people, which I could understand that, that, okay, there's some sense of freedom here because I don't have to see them, right? It's, it's, there is some sense of safety that I can cry in front of these people, even though it's probably not typical, but I don't have to see them tomorrow. I don't have to, it's in a way of like, it's his own little world. It sounds like this kind of weekend where I don't know these people, not going to see him again. Why not? And that gave you the courage to get it out.
00:43:46
Speaker
and then this path of realizing that time doesn't really necessarily heal. Sometimes it does, like we'll give it that, but other times it doesn't. Like you said, it just does rocks just sit there in that bag until you identify it and have a safe enough space. And so I'm wondering, coming full circle of, you know, Terry now, you know, what would you want to encourage, you know, a man, a guy going through something where he has like a bag
Healing Through Vulnerability
00:44:09
Speaker
of rocks and
00:44:09
Speaker
How could he encourage a younger Terry now with the wisdom you have and the experience? What do you think would sink in or help sink in? Or what do you think he would have needed to create more space to then allow a younger version of Terry to maybe say something sooner? Does that make sense? How could we do that? I think in general, this is very generally speaking, guys kind of look at things as like,
00:44:33
Speaker
It's either working or it doesn't. It's either broken or it's fixed. But this idea that like within all of us that we're always growing into something new, if we allow ourselves to, and we're always heating from something and your mind will sometimes tell you that, oh, that backpack's not that heavy. Or yeah, that's probably not broken.
00:44:56
Speaker
I'll just keep going. Your mind will protect and excuse your way out of so much in the name of moving on or being strong or resisting vulnerability. And what I would say is flip the script on that, even if it's in your own mind, the safety of your own mind for a second, and really just say, hey, what if I can acknowledge that if I put it all, take inventory, just put it all out,
00:45:25
Speaker
and trust one person with it. Pick anyone. It'd be great if it's a therapist, but if it starts where you just need to get something out of you and it's not, it leads to that, wonderful. But just do it even if it feels like you don't need to, because I could make the case that everybody
00:45:46
Speaker
needs to do this and to take inventory of what's going on. What are you carrying? What's, what's really going on beneath the surface and find any reason to do it for. I feel like manner also can be very prideful. They won't do something for themselves, you know, do it for
00:46:06
Speaker
Do it for your daughter, do it for your son, do it for your friend. So if you need a reason to do it, hold out in front of you. If you're not going to do it for yourself, do it for somebody else. I would encourage everybody to do this. I don't think there would be a single person that wouldn't benefit
00:46:25
Speaker
being vulnerable enough to really inspect their past, present, worries about the future, just put it all out there, find somebody you trust. I would say, I mean, I talked about moments that were quite obvious moments to do that in, but I'd do it in a not obvious moment. I wouldn't wait for someone to die to do it or someone to get divorced to do it, because those are the two moments I did it.
00:46:55
Speaker
And I was still even dismissive. And you can see I held onto that bag a long time.
00:47:00
Speaker
And I'm wondering with that too, just quickly to see, so you did do it, you had opportunities. Twice that your parents said, hey, go here, go here. But there was something like, what do you think, and it might be more than one thing, but if you could give us something like one thing, because this might be helpful for men or even women listening to the show, because sometimes we might have an opportunity, but we don't. So what do you think was inside of you that didn't allow that, you know, to examine an inventory of what's inside? Like, what was that? You know, I think I and a lot of,
00:47:29
Speaker
I don't know how many people, but I'm sure a fair amount of people have this when they get into a vulnerable situation, the script in their head immediately goes to escape, escape as soon as possible. Find the, find the path of least resistance escape. This doesn't, this is not comfortable. And I think prompting people that that may happen and to hang in there anyways.
00:47:52
Speaker
That's one of the things that I've actually heard now, like say the group that I went and eventually shared some of my story with, that's something that they say. It's like, hey, you might start to get these things and you might look at the door or be like, hey, I'm going to excuse myself to the bathroom. They're like, just check in with yourself.
00:48:09
Speaker
if, if there's something telling you to run in this space, you don't need to run. So I think something prompted like that could actually be the difference between getting somebody to hang in there or not. Yeah. So almost like pointing out there and I've done a lot of work in polyglial theory and some of the trauma work. So what,
00:48:29
Speaker
What I hear you saying is that's your nervous system fighting to survive, right? Because that's, running is fleeing, right? That's your autonomic nervous system. Fight, flight, freeze, shut down, disassociate, right? So our nervous system does this to survive because, well, talking about this, that's a threat, right? That's a threat to, it's not safe to talk about this. It's never been safe.
00:48:49
Speaker
your body's wired to survive. And so what I'm hearing you say is, let's point out that nervous system state. It makes sense why you want to maybe run or see the door because this is going to be uncomfortable, but we are safe here. Almost like you're saying what it is and saying, no, we're safe. You don't need to run. This is a place that it makes sense. You're going to, your body's going to want to get away from this as quickly as can and move on because that's how we're wired. However, you know, this is something that we don't need to run from here. This is a place where we're all going to feel that. So I think that's really cool. Does that make sense?
00:49:19
Speaker
Oh, it definitely does. Cause yeah, the, the longer you can just hang in there, the more you're going to give yourself a chance to like truly get on the other side of anything. And it's, you know, it's, it's an interesting one cause it is so counterintuitive to like, I mean, like you said, you've studied all the science and everything like that. It's like, we are wired.
00:49:42
Speaker
in, in that way. And then culture backs it up. And then all your experiences back it up and all that stuff. So you're just like, wait, I'm actually safe. This will actually help me. Right. Are you sure this isn't going to feel this weird now? Like in a few minutes or, you know, it's like,
00:49:59
Speaker
So, but yeah, so I mean, I, I guess that all could, that comes down to to just trust, you know, find somebody, find somebody you trust, even if it's somebody that's in sometimes that's like somebody that's brand new, a brand new face. Like I said, cause like trust doesn't mean your oldest friend. Cause sometimes that could be uncomfortable too. Trust could just be like, Hey, I, I have a decent enough feeling with this. If I can just unpack, like don't question it too much. Just trust.
00:50:27
Speaker
And I'm telling you, I'm on the other side of so much of this. And I look at life so differently. I'm looking at my son's journey, 12 years old right now. My daughter's journey, 15 years old right now. And I'm in such a better place to be able to come alongside of them as a dad, having dealt with all these things. Cause you may package it up and say, that doesn't, that won't matter.
00:50:53
Speaker
in, in their life, but it does, it affects everything. Sure. It affects everything. So, you know, I take the brave step. I mean, any listeners out there, it's like, just, just trust somebody, put that, put that name down of who you trust and call them.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah. And, and please, I pray if it's something that's, that's huge, like some of the things I've discussed, you know, find a therapist and just trust that this will not set you back. If there's nothing that you will never regret it, it may be uncomfortable, but it is not something that you're going to ever say, I shouldn't have done that.
00:51:34
Speaker
I second that encouragement 100% that I can understand I'm sure as Terry can as he's working with people now I'm gets why it can be so hard to actually do this work and share it right because there's so many layers whether it's a fear or worry or your nervous system or
00:51:51
Speaker
being a guy we don't talk about this or even you know women carry stuff too it's like we have all these things that can keep us from actually finding relief and healing but I can say from also experience working with countless people in my office that I get it but when you actually start to do the work and heal it is uncomfortable absolutely I always warn my clients like you're gonna feel this now like you're actually gonna feel
Embracing Change and Helping Others
00:52:14
Speaker
And that can be uncomfortable because we're used to just surviving which is numbing and getting away so I say that this is the hardest part is now when we actually feel it in the beginning because that's where you allow it to actually come to the surface and actually identify and that can just be uncomfortable because you're not used to it you're not used to allowing those emotions or things to come to the surface because you've been
00:52:34
Speaker
so trained in yourself to push it's like keeping Volleyballs down underwater even so trained to keep these things down and what that feels like and so for them to come to the surface is this is weird no get them down and so the final question you know as we wrap up is
00:52:49
Speaker
Could you share like two or three things, positive things that you've seen change since that the beginning of the transformation of actually allowing this to come out, sharing, you know, you know, the burden actually doing kind of an inventory and saying, wow, I've been carrying this stuff around. And now that you're on the other end of it, what are like two or three things that you've seen and examine your life of the positive impact that's had of kind of essentially getting help?
00:53:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think one is like how I mentioned, it's like, I've always wanted to help others. And so to now feel like I could be in a comfortable enough spot to like talk on this podcast about this, or talk to my daughter about tough subjects, to really, in a way, it's like,
00:53:37
Speaker
you know, be able to step into my, my, my full self because to, to take something, push it down. It's harmful enough for myself, but if really in the end there's somebody else that can benefit from my story or, or wherever this journey goes, I just wasn't even allowing the like ship to leave the port, you know? And I so badly want to see where this ship goes in life.
00:54:04
Speaker
And I want to I want to be able to to help other people to be there for other people to so, you know, I think I'm getting to like, see that. So and it's just it's just getting started. So so yeah, it goes back to, you know, so that would be one. And I think, you know, within there, that's it allows me to be a better dad. It allows me to be a more self aware,
00:54:28
Speaker
you know, person both in the workplace, but also in my relationship with my wife, like I'm able to just be more myself, you know, I've seen myself, I'm more likely to get the haircut that I want now. I am more likely to wear the clothes that I want. I'm more likely to really step into like all the things that that little kid wanted when I was, you know, before any of this even happened. Yeah. I'm,
00:54:54
Speaker
I'm more like that kid now at 47 than I was for all those years because I think I just was holding so much fear of what it would be like to be vulnerable enough to fully share yourself, be yourself, and then ultimately be a light to others through just being myself.
00:55:17
Speaker
I don't know how many things were in there, but I think there's a couple. That's amazing, Terry. And really, vulnerability is a true strength. And I appreciate your strength and be able to share this and just all of that because that is so it's so heavy. It really is. I mean, that's, you know, my heart and soul goes out to who and her and her family. I've dealt with that on my own professionally as well. And it's it's a heart. It's a tragic thing. And so I wish that I wish for anyone struggling, anyone get help. There's so much help now.
00:55:44
Speaker
that the reality is that there are people to talk to like Terry said to not have to carry this weight that there is ways to navigate this to find safety to find healing and it just takes that one time to begin to kind of share and start the process and it might take time it might take you know it's not saying it's going to be one week of talking to someone
00:56:03
Speaker
But the reality is there's a lot of people that really can genuinely care that will help that are there to listen and so Terry I thank you for your strength and just kind of Embodying that and just being vulnerable and showing that strength of talking about your story
00:56:18
Speaker
and kind of what you're doing now and I'm excited for you. I'm excited to hear kind of the work you do and I'll be following what you guys do and I still am with you and when you're doing and you know now that you have this freedom to kind of really be a better dad, a better father, a better husband, you know better able to connect with people that are carrying those rocks or those those packs and those those heavy and you know what it feels like and I think that's gonna for sure make you a better a better person because
00:56:44
Speaker
you have an empathy and understanding of what that's like to carry something heavy around for a long time and understand the fear so you get to kind of speak to that which is really really an amazing gift you now have to give away so I bless you and all the work you and your wife are doing and continue to you know
00:57:01
Speaker
Help people whether it's on the podcast or if you're talking to people and you're in your work You know coming across someone and your radar goes up and you're like hmm You know like that's the cool thing with this as well as you begin to heal like who knows who you can impact in our life like We can impact people that we never thought we can impact and just our day-to-day living Where can we find your work and you and your wife's work?
00:57:23
Speaker
Sure. So fresh start family online.com would be fresh start families site. So if you're a parent looking for any type of support, which we all need, um, go there. Wendy has an online course and community. That's just amazing. People all over the world are a part of that. And it's been such an amazing way to connect with so many people and to bless so many people.
00:57:50
Speaker
I am at Terry Snyder creative on Instagram. Wendy is at fresh start Wendy. If you're interested in just any of the creative work that I do, my portfolio site is terrysnidercreative.com. But yeah, I mean, that's, that, that's me and the fresh start family show. You can search that up on anywhere you find podcasts.
00:58:09
Speaker
I am on a lot of them, not all, but definitely the ones that are more geared to speaking to the dads. So yeah, it's an honor to reach out and to connect with dads and help people in their journey. And so this is a big part of that. So thank you, Travis, for having me on. This is really, really cool for me. Thank you so much. And it's an honor to be able to reflect back on
00:58:39
Speaker
all the things that make me me. I'm sitting here, one last thing before we go, I'm sitting in my son's room right now. Like normally we do our podcast in another room, but Wendy's doing a different podcast there. So I was like, I got to pick a space. I sat down in my son's room and off to my left here I'm looking at, at his desk is a collage that I made
00:59:01
Speaker
when I was probably 11 or 12. And I didn't intentionally sit down to have that in my space, but I'm looking at it and it's got, you know, my head glued onto like a professional wrestler's body, but there's all these words too. Like there's, you know, artist, there's style, free, have it all, something else.
00:59:28
Speaker
independent there's all these there's like photo of a skateboarder and like comic book stuff and like um all these things of like it just takes me back to like where where i was at in that zone that we kind of started at and then yeah
00:59:44
Speaker
I'm getting to live that out now, I feel like. And it's not just about like, oh, I get to be a kid again, but like, I think there was that time where I just felt like I was like, I didn't know what was next. I didn't know what adulthood looks like. It's like, I get to do that still. Yeah. It's like you're reclaiming the child, that part of you that got buried underneath all those rocks. That part's coming out in a really cool expression. That's awesome. Yeah.
01:00:09
Speaker
So whatever that looks like for any of the listeners out there, you have a lot to look forward to. Just seek the help. I really encourage you. So thank you Travis. Yeah. Thanks, Terry. Bye. Thanks for joining and listening today. Please leave a comment and review the show. Dads are tough, but not tough enough to do this fatherhood thing alone.