Transcript
Krystal Thomas: Hi everyone, welcome back. We have a very special guest with us today. the amazing Natalie is here with me. um and today's topic, we're gonna be talking about disability. We're gonna be talking about the church and how we can better care for our brothers and sisters who are living with disability, experiencing disability and why it's so important for the church to care.
Krystal Thomas: but first, before we dive into the topic, ah Natalie, do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
Nat: I would love to So thank you for having me My name is Natalie. I'm a 31 year old gal who lives in DC. i live with my twin sister who is fraternal. Um, and I'm originally from Florida, have moved around ah bit, um, lived in new York, lived in Austin,
Nat: now dc and i started my journey into disability when i was diagnosed with a neurological um like neurodegenerative disorder called friedrich's ataxia when i was 22 so a few days before i graduated college And FA basically a progressive loss of balance and and muscle weakness and fatigue and just a lot of really fun things. And oh um so yeah, disability wasn't something that was...
Nat: on my radar, but as I've grown to become more disabled, it has become more and more important to me not only to advocate for um disabled folks and particularly in the church, but also um to just broaden the way we think about disability and accessibility and particularly in the body of Christ.
Krystal Thomas: Wow. i i mean, you already know I'm such a fan of yours. just love your heart in you know to have that had that diagnosis at such a at such an age um and the ways in which you have then created more of a space for people to feel seen, to like be able to share what they're facing. Again, like y'all, Natalie is absolutely amazing.
Krystal Thomas: If you're friends with her, you already know her heart and her ah desire just to to care for people well. And I just, I'm sure that you guys can already sense it from what she shared so far about herself, about how the amazing woman that she is.
Krystal Thomas: So we're going to dive right on in. My question, my next question for you, Natalie, is um we're here to talk about disability and the need for awareness in the church.
Krystal Thomas: I think it's first important for us to start with kind of defining what we're talking about with disability. So I know this is a huge question, so I appreciate you tackling this. um how How do you think, um how would you define disability or or like just to kind of put it into plain terms?
Krystal Thomas: plainterm
Nat: Yeah, I again, super big question. So I will do my best to distill.
Krystal Thomas: Right. Yes.
Nat: But essentially, ah disability is often defined as having a physical or intellectual impairment that substantially limits one or more life activities.
Nat: But I like to think of it more broadly because disabilities can be visible, like use me as my walker.
Nat: They can be invisible. Like when i was first diagnosed and didn't use any assistance, so people didn't know I was disabled.
Nat: Or if you have a learning disability, all sorts of things, they can be acquired like mine or
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Right.
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: from you can be disabled from birth uh they can be short or long term so if you think about someone breaking their leg and needing to use a scooter crutches that's more of a short-term disabling experience um but i think one of the biggest things for me is that It's a pretty universal experience.
Nat: There are 1.3 billion people worldwide identify as having some sort of disability.
Krystal Thomas: Wow. Mm-hmm.
Nat: and so this is the population. a huge part of the population And can often be overlooked or not thought about ah holistically because there are so many different forms of disability, which is and another reason I'm really excited to talk about how we can of enhance the church experience for everyone.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, and i really appreciate that definition because even though, as you said, you're making it broader, I think it creates more opportunities for people who are living with a variety of different disabilities because, again, to have 1.3 billion people impacted, like, it's going to look differently, um to your point, short-term and long-term, right?
Krystal Thomas: And it allows um and allows people to be able to identify in a way that they need to, right? But it also allows, at least for me, to be more aware of not only how many people are impacted and living with a disability, but how I can also be more intentional about caring for people who may be living with a disability.
Krystal Thomas: And so, yes, you and I share the same passion of like, again, kingdom of God, the church, how do we continue to build it up? And so my next question, um what are some of the ways you have seen churches care for people living with disability, both visible or invisible, like you said, what are ways that they've done that well? and what are ways in which we can collectively improve? And so I never like to be too negative of like, where did they like stink? But like,
Krystal Thomas: Areas of opportunity. It's a very DC way of putting it. Yeah.
Nat: Yes, no, absolutely. And i think a big part of this, right, is getting it on the books of the church. I think a lot of times if you don't see someone who is disabled you may not think about these things um or if you don't have someone advocating for disability in this space um it tends to get overlooked and no fault of anyone's but I think that there are
Nat: some great ways in which I have seen the church, specifically the district church show show up. And so something thing that I like to regularly point to is having accessibility information on your website as a church and providing information physical physically accessible spaces or options, right?
Nat: So if there if your church meets in a building that doesn't i have elevator access or a ramp of some sort and can only be accessed by stairs, someone who's a wheelchair user isn't going to come.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: I mean, I'm going to be intimidated to come alone if that's the case, just because it's going to require me asking for help.
Nat: And when you're in a new space, it can be... extra intimidating to do that. um
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: So I think a really, really big one is just providing information and about the physical accessibility and then trying to figure out ways in which if you're in a really old building or something, how do you make it accessible so that you can kind of unlock this
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: part of the congregation and that's just the physical side right like that you can also ah have quiet rooms for folks who maybe get overstimulated or you're particularly children who are autistic or um somewhere in the spectrum having been a space for them to
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: kind of go away to if things get too overwhelming, i think is really, really important. And it's a way to serve families who are caring for kids with disabilities.
Nat: um
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: Something i ah the district church does really well is providing earplugs. I know this seems so basic, but you are someone who, again, gets overstimulated or wants to protect your hearing because maybe there is kind of progressive hearing loss in your family a or susceptibility to that, like,
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: Earplugs are a really inexpensive but beautiful way to care for people. and something that is also not very expensive but can be very helpful is providing lids coffee cups. And so i have gone to multiple churches where there's no way in which I can get a cup of coffee unless someone carries it for me because there's no covering for it and this is more specific to my needs but think everyone can benefit from a lid everyone everyone can smell things
Krystal Thomas: Oh, absolutely. When it comes to spills and mess, yes.
Nat: no All it takes is this one cute little kiddo bumping into you. And it's just that coffee's in the ground.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: um And so those are some things that I've seen that have been really ah awesome and helpful. And then a couple of kind of less tangible things that I think...
Nat: um I really believe that churches can benefit from doing like an annual or a biannual survey that just checks in with people asks them if there's any accommodations that are needed or that they would like to see.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: ah um And there may not be. Right. But giving people the space to provide that feedback is really important. um
Krystal Thomas: And Natalie, can I jump in? Because you're saying so many nuggets and I don't want you to lose your place, but it's so good.
Nat: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: Like my mind is just like, yes. Because I know for me, it was so great to, and again, I think that's why it's so important that we're having the conversation of disabilities being both visible and invisible.
Nat: Yep.
Krystal Thomas: um because And the fact that, again, the long term, short term, but also across different ages. Because I know for me, I've noticed in other churches, it's been a lot more focused on more cognitive ah disability as opposed to, and then also tied to a particular age, like much younger,
Nat: Mm-hmm.
Krystal Thomas: Right. um And so what I hope, like as we're listening and we're hearing, um is that this conversation, what I don't want is for people to feel like they're overwhelmed or like, what do we do? But like, rather, these are like very tangible ways that we can help people feel like they belong in a community.
Krystal Thomas: um And, you know, we get to both serve on the hospitality ministry. That's a big deal, right? There are people who will make decisions about their church home or or like based on whether or not they belong.
Nat: Thank you.
Krystal Thomas: And this is an area in which we don't often talk about. Like when you had brought up the point about needing to include, especially like the building is not accessible, like how many steps and what does this look like?
Krystal Thomas: Is there an incline? Right. And, um That has been super helpful for people. I there are things that we may miss if we're not having conversations like this for sure.
Nat: Yes.
Nat: Yes. And to your point, eye yeah I think the idea is not to overwhelm. It's to get the juices flowing to really help folks understand that um these things make a big difference, right?
Krystal Thomas: Going, yeah.
Nat: Because if you are... someone who has acquired a disability, not that there's, not that you don't need or want accommodations if you're used to it, in quotations, but as someone who has acquired their disability, yeah i have had to basically, like, restart this
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: view of where do I fit and how do I fit here because the way that I used to is not the way I can anymore and um I think like the more people feel welcome and the more they feel safe in a space the more they will open up about their journey too and you really get to see
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, that was...
Nat: that it's such a testimony to the Lord does and can do and I think, like, that's that's something that um I was thinking through with things not to do um
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: Being disabled or, like, for me, physically presenting as though I need healing, which
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Nat: Yes. ah it I do. Would I love to be a fully healed? Totally. But the conversation is much deeper than physical healing. And i think a lot of people don't mean to be ah offensive, but when they...
Nat: When you don't know them and they just come up to you and ask, can I pray for you? And they put their hands on you. And they really, um i have felt my space being very invaded. then have had people pray for me get very disappointed.
Nat: If after they pray, I'm not healed.
Krystal Thomas: Really?
Nat: and
Krystal Thomas: Wow.
Nat: the reality is like that's that's just them being selfish because they you want to make um they something happen and so i i really just um i
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, because it's about them, not about you. Yeah.
Nat: i don't think this is as prevalent in ah I think it's probably more prevalent in the South um or just in more conservative circles.
Krystal Thomas: Oh, wow.
Nat: But i I've had some weird instances that people praying for me or i've heard a lot of disabled Christians and podcasters talk about um people kind of implying that there's unconfessed sin in or something, and that you're not healed because ah sin, and i fully disagree with that, um and I think it also makes, there's so many issues with that that I have, um and so, yeah I think in the church, it's, a it is what we're called to do as church.
Krystal Thomas: while
Nat: is just like care for people, see people as people, and meet needs and realize that we all have needs we're bringing to the table.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: Mine just might be like, can you carry my cup of coffee?
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: you know, but like someone else, ah someone else has other needs that I can meet. And so,
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: I keep jumping in, I'm so sorry.
Nat: I love it. Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: I feel like everyone's gonna be like, stop talking, let her talk.
Nat: i love
Krystal Thomas: oh But Dr. Christine Pohl, I quote her often, because she wrote a book called Radical Hospitality, and really kind of getting us back to this idea of biblical hospitality and how significant it was in the time of the early church.
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: ah And when you were talking, Natalie, I kept thinking about how um sometimes we only see people based on their needs.
Nat: Yeah. Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: And by in doing so, we deny the gifts that God has placed within them, but they also have things that we can learn from and can be contributed to the kingdom, right?
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: And so there's, in ah in a desire to meet the need, it's important not to forget the gift that and all of the other aspects of that person that make up who they are beyond just that need.
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: And I thought that that was just something um relevant just to add because I would imagine, first of all, I literally, you guys can't see, um, our faces because it's going to be audio, but I'm like literally like staring, like shocked at some of the things, the things that you've experienced, especially in a place that is supposed to be like, you're coming to be part of community to connect with God.
Nat: I know.
Krystal Thomas: And here you are navigating, um, all of these, like the, the people this, which again, we love people, but you know, we're, we're flawed. We do our best.
Nat: yeah bla People people.
Krystal Thomas: Right. You're peopling, right? ah And yeah, so I would just, i wanted to kind of just follow up on that. Like, so what are ways um that maybe, you know, if someone is like asking, like, ah if they wanted to say, like, how can I be helpful? Like, what would be a better way of phrasing that just to kind of do so in a way that's honoring?
Nat: Totally. i i loved it. And it's so semantics. But I love when someone says, how can I be helpful?
Nat: Or like, can I help? Instead of, do you need help? Because there there's this feeling of when someone says, do you need help? It makes me feel helpless and it makes me feel like that's all they see whereas when someone's like can I be helpful and the answer might be yes the answer might be no right like yes exactly it's because they I think something big for people to understand too is ah for me right yeah
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: And don't be upset if someone one says no. Come on, guys.
Nat: I have learned how to navigate the world with my walker. And so if there's something that I need help with, i will ask. But nine times out of 10, it's actually easier if i can...
Nat: do things the way I normally do them, right? Like, for instance, this is very unique to my situation, but opening a door when you're using a walker really goofy.
Nat: really goofy yeah You know, you're like, turn balance, turn down the door. But I use the door for stability. And so, because i I'm balancing on it.
Nat: And so, a lot of and they will...
Krystal Thomas: Oh my gosh, there's someone much pushing on the door! Oh no!
Nat: like being helpful they will pull the door and and i have to really catch myself and at this point I'm able to preemptively see you when it will happen the most part like I'm like oh this person's gonna be helpful and that's great but like lean back like grab your you know but Every so often just, and so it's things like that where intention and desire is to be helpful and that is so good but also i operate
Nat: in my body the way I need to all the time on my own. and so it's also helpful if someone gives me that space and then asks what would be helpful.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, that's a really good y'all.
Nat: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: I'm over here like going through my mind too of like, yo, so it's like, it's a, it's a good thing, right? It's like you desire to, to care and to like honor.
Nat: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: Right. But like, it's hard to do if you don't actually ask the person.
Nat: Totally.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: um And again, it's never done with poor intent and and that is what I always remind myself is I'm like people don't know your exact needs but um but it's just funny it's something I've observed I'm working on
Krystal Thomas: I know even in the back of my mind, I'm like, Oh, like I, um, I'm already thinking about what are ways in which we can like train the larger hospitality ministry with even with some of these things that we're talking about.
Krystal Thomas: Um, cause we're often the first experience that a person will have when they walk or come through the doors. Right. And so, um, yeah, this is like, I hope you guys are taking notes because I know I am as well.
Krystal Thomas: This is so good.
Nat: and
Krystal Thomas: Now, I think there was another point that you wanted to make in regards to this question about opportunities that churches can take.
Nat: yeah so i I think a really big one two is um like about invitations and expectations and so some A big fear that I have is that I won't be invited to something because someone will assume that I can't do something.
Krystal Thomas: Oh, really?
Nat: whatever is whatever activity is going to participated and I would much rather be given the option um and then either say no or honestly you probably surprise people and say yes and be very creative and how I get there what I do to participate um because Basically, ah like disabled people are incredibly creative because the world is not built for us
Krystal Thomas: Like designed, yeah.
Nat: And so we are we get really, really creative when it's like, gotta get up these stairs and I don't have anyone to help me and all of that um But I i think a big one is like the invitation and the expectation is important to um hold And then knowing that knowing that like If you can provide information in advance, right? So you invite me to a restaurant and you give me the heads. A lot of my friends will give me the heads up.
Nat: Like, hey, the restaurant has stairs. I'll be there to meet you. And I'm like, great. Now I don't have to worry about it. Because the reality is that, like, has taken more courage than I ever
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: realize to just show up do things or to walk in the room and be the only person with the walker and know other people experience this and other ways um but wasn't until I became disabled that I experienced it and that comes with a lot of privilege right um but now be on the side of
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: yeah, when you walk in a room, you might be the only disabled person, like, that is presenting as disabled, then you ah have to just buck up and do it.
Nat: And so um i think just if you can encourage someone to do that um and to keep showing up,
Nat: That is really beautiful.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah. Cause I do think, um,
Krystal Thomas: especially in the encouragement part, that is something that we can take advantage or forget about. You and I have talked offline. So sorry that you guys don't get to be part of our regular conversation. So we have a good time.
Krystal Thomas: but when, especially when you're talking about,
Krystal Thomas: I'm trying to choose my words carefully. um
Krystal Thomas: It could be uncomfortable for people, especially with long-term suffering or long-term pain or yeah, just in general. Yes. And so, um,
Krystal Thomas: Natalie and I have talked a lot about like, what does lamenting look like with God? Uh, those on the podcast, I had a whole episode on, on lamenting and, and pursuing that for myself. Um, but I think it's just so and important that we be reminded that we still need to have that encouragement of each other.
Nat: yeah Absolutely.
Krystal Thomas: um can you speak a little bit more about, I mean, you had talked about like, you know, like it's important to encourage. Can you expand a little bit more on that?
Nat: so And I don't want conflict disability and suffering because i i definitely don't think they are to pieces in a pod by any means.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, thank you Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: um If listen to Amy Joya Becker speak, she really talks about she has daughter, Penny, who has Down syndrome, she talks about how disability and suffering, they are distinct and they need to which very much agree with.
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: um My personal experience has been more on the suffering end, right? Because i have lost abilities and the ability to use my body in the way i used to and would like to.
Nat: And um so for me,
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: it's my, like my life is like, it is long suffering and I do view it as the reality of like, unless I am healed,
Nat: I will experience this discomfort the rest my life. And so how do i yeah not learn to look at it like a constant valley,
Nat: but
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: having to just really be like this is it this is my life it's what I get like Catherine Wolfe from Hope Heels talks about this idea of like you just kind of gotta wake up and ah roll with it and be and like in it and process it and it's really hard and the grief is really strong but We get one. And so what does it look like to do that well?
Nat: So I think for me, though, it's sometimes I need that extra encouragement. Sometimes it's not in my mind. right?
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: Like, a lot of days I'm just kind on of plateauing and I'm used to it and I get my walker and I do my thing. um Some other days I'm just like, all I want to do is a bike and go for a run and do whatever I want and that really is like where having a calling and being encouraged to run your race very focused is really important for ah least for me and for my well-being um because my race is going to look like most of my friends.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: Like most of my friends are not disabled and do not experience what I do and so ah the comparison just doesn't make sense there. um And so, yeah I think that one of the biggest things that I have been learning is how do you come to terms with long suffering and do that well and not always view it as
Nat: a place of grief and suffering, but let it be like grieving when it is.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. And thank you so much for, you did it so delicately, but thank you so much for that correction because it's so easy. And I think it's also just because of some of the conversations that we've had, we've been spending a lot of time to be able to limit, but that suffering and disability are very separate.
Nat: Hmm.
Krystal Thomas: Right. And the last thing that we want to do is to, to make it synonymous or to try to remove the, the dignity and the honor that people carry. Um,
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. And so ah really loved how you phrase that. It's almost like kind of going back to what you were saying about the invitation. It's like providing the encouragement, but also it's like a willingness to enter into whatever you were feeling or navigating in that moment. Right. So like you said, it could be grief.
Krystal Thomas: It could be joy. i know that we've bonded over like some of the the hand warmers that you had.
Nat: She does.
Krystal Thomas: in the when it got really cold, right. And like, kind of like discovering new things. Right. And so I do think that that's something that ah a lot of us, I know for me, I'm going to be taking away is it's a willingness to in like, if invited in, right.
Krystal Thomas: Cause again, it's kind of hard to have those like, There are some times where you're you're like, I am just a person and I'm just peopling today and I don't have the capacity, right?
Nat: down
Krystal Thomas: Like you get to say no or um set that boundary. But I'm wondering, especially with those of us who want to to make sure that people feel like they belong, who have a heart to like just be in community is to be reminded that part of being community is in the context of relationship.
Nat: Yes.
Krystal Thomas: And it's allowing both parties to enter however they are, but also being willing to sit in wherever people are. I think there was one time where we had a time of prayer where before starting to p pray, it was, what can I pray for you over?
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: Right. Not assuming, but allowing, allowing that control, allowing that, you know what i mean?
Nat: yeah
Krystal Thomas: And I think like, it just has me thinking more of how like how so much we make it about us like we don't want to offend we don't want a mistake we don't want to do these things but ultimately it's not about us if we really want to be present in a community and love another person well right it's just inviting them in to tell us what that and what and how that should look like in that moment yeah that's so good so good
Nat: Yes. Yes.
Krystal Thomas: So I feel like you've talked about it a little bit already. But my last question, which I'm like, I wish I had more questions because it's just so much fun. um But my last question, and I feel like you've kind of talked about it already, is what valuable lessons have you learned throughout your journey with the Lord?
Krystal Thomas: and then I'll combine the last one together if you wanted to add anything else. And if there's anything else you wanted to to share, feel free.
Nat: Yeah, i
Nat: i mean, I think that I've learned so much. um and
Nat: I particularly like just living a life and a story I really did not anticipate um has felt so hard and also
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: so cool um my sister and i have gotten to share our story so much and that's i mean it's truly in the world like providing those avenues um and but i think one of the big things that i've really learned is
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: i this process of sanctification. And I know we talk about it in the form of, like, marriage being sanctifying or having kids it's being sanctifying.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: I also think that um this has been the most sanctifying thing of my life to date because part of it is, like,
Krystal Thomas: wow yeah
Nat: I've had to really put what I want on the altar and just be like, all right, like, um if the Lord is more glorified in me walking through this well, like, am I okay with that?
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: Versus... being healed like that's that's a tension um and I've heard sanctification be defined as getting really good and not getting what you want and I was like I think that's I think that is so real um I think I've learned a lot about
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Krystal Thomas: i That's a really good.
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: ah how to not get what I want and um it's been really painful and really funny at times. Like I think It's been really, really awesome to see how my friends have just, like, grown so much in their empathy and their ability to slow down and to walk with me in this.
Nat: um
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Nat: And their willingness to do so. Like, it's very much not lost on um And having a twin sister, or I think, like, the Lord really...
Nat: knew what I would need when I, like before we were born, right? Giving me a sister who is not disabled walk through this with.
Nat: um There are a lot of ways in which We support each other. and um so she's kind of my ultimate reminder that like the Lord knows what we need ah before we do.
Nat: um and
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: another big one for me is just like learning to honor the Lord in my limitations instead of constantly like trying to push them or expand them. um by really appreciating, like, the boundary lines that he has drawn.
Nat: um and the fact that, like, my body is a literal example of, like, outward decay and outwardly wasting away.
Krystal Thomas: you
Nat: But, like, what does it look like to have my spirit be matured Um, so all lessons that wouldn't have been fun, and but I do think that when I look back, I i would not have learned them had gotten everything I wanted.
Nat: so
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Nat: Sometimes I'm like, I'd rather have what I want. And um you know I'm like, great lesson, than I'd rather just have what want.
Krystal Thomas: That's real talk
Nat: And other times I'm like, it's pretty sweet to get to learn that. um So, pros and cons. Okay.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah. oh Honestly, Natalie, I was like, I cannot end this podcast without like first encouraging you. i again, thank you so much for being on this episode, for sharing, um, so much and it's so many gifts.
Krystal Thomas: going to say it as a gift because I do think there's an opportunity for the collective church to do more and to be more,
Nat: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: um And as you guys know, I always say the call is to be united, not uniform. And so what does it look like with honoring going to Corinthians 12? Like, what does it look like to honor the different parts of the body? Right.
Nat: you know
Krystal Thomas: And you are just someone who every time I see your. like talking to someone, you're connecting someone, you are always welcoming. And it's just, I just want to say, and through all of this process and thank you for your vulnerability and what you've been experiencing and how you've been navigating it and the fruit of the time and the intimacy that you have with the Lord is so apparent and such a light to so many people. So I just want to affirm you in, um, both the, the spiritual growth and the goodness that has come from the season.
Krystal Thomas: And then to also acknowledge and to sit with you in the parts that have also been hard or challenging. And both of these, like, again, like you said, like living in that tension has produced so much fruit, um,
Krystal Thomas: because of the intimacy that you've had with the Lord and the amount of people that are going to be blessed by the ministry that God has called you into. I just cannot wait to say and to see and to witness and to just be like, I knew her.
Nat: oh
Krystal Thomas: I know her. Don't take my calls when you're like famous, please. ah
Nat: girl I will always take your calls when I'm pretty good I okay that makes it um but yeah no and I i love the way that you have been like let's create a space at the table or this
Krystal Thomas: yeah
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Nat: aspect of diversity in the body because it's just like that's what we should be doing and like disabled people should not be unchurched because they do not feel welcome or they do not know how they fit like just not the way it should go
Krystal Thomas: Yeah.
Krystal Thomas: Yeah, we have to.
Krystal Thomas: Right. Right.
Krystal Thomas: at all. Right? ah Well, I feel encouraged. I feel excited um to continue to learn more, to grow deeper. um i already know we have to have Natalie back because I feel like there's so many more questions and things I want to ask her.
Krystal Thomas: But Natalie, thank you so much for joining us on this episode. um We're so glad that you all have been able to listen and to join us today. And remember, there's always enough space for us to be seen and to see others.
Nat: Thanks.
Krystal Thomas: I'll see you all next time.
Nat: a
