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Unmasking the Imposter: Finding Confidence and Belonging in a World of Doubt
54 Plays7 months ago
How many of you have struggled with imposter syndrome? Have you ever thought - I don't belong here? I'm not qualified. I am not good enough. In this episode, my friend Daina and I unpack the lies of imposter syndrome and the ways we have found healing, love, and peace.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Imposter Syndrome
00:00:50
Krystal Thomas
Welcome to this next episode. I have someone very, very special with me. I've had the pleasure of getting to know this amazing person over the years and ah to just do life together. And I'm just so glad that she's here with us today to talk about imposter syndrome.
00:01:11
Krystal Thomas
Now, I know that this is a phrase that some of us may have heard. It may be newer to to certain people, um but it's it's something that's so relevant in a lot of ways, and we're just so excited today to be able to talk more about it. But first, I'd like to introduce you all to the amazing
Defining Imposter Syndrome
00:01:28
Krystal Thomas
Dana. Dana, can you tell us a little bit about you?
00:01:32
Daina
Sure. Hi everyone. My name is Dana and I was so excited when Crystal and I were talking a bit more about her podcast and just ideas and topics and trends that have been pretty prominent in society. um I know as a black woman, imposter syndrome is something that I have wrestled with a lot. And yeah, I'm just so excited to be here and Crystal is the best mentor and big sister you could ask for. So I'm excited.
00:02:04
Krystal Thomas
You are very sweet.
00:02:08
Krystal Thomas
Yes, yes. So um we're here to talk about imposter syndrome. Now, I want to preface this is that neither Dana and I are experts in this topic or this area. um But through our conversations, and you guys know the feel of this podcast is that it's meant to be a conversation.
00:02:27
Krystal Thomas
It's meant to be, you know, imagine that you were having coffee with with us in this and this conversation. um But I do think it's important that we kind of spend time to talk about it.
00:02:37
Daina
Yeah.
00:02:37
Krystal Thomas
um So Dana, how would you
Personal Experiences in Challenging Environments
00:02:39
Krystal Thomas
define imposter syndrome and when have you experienced it?
00:02:44
Daina
Yeah, so I think for me, and kind of like you mentioned, just starting off, yes, we're not professionals, but I also feel like we should caveat that when we're talking about this, we don't want people to think, oh, you're being bashful, or it's false humility. it Even though you can't diagnose imposter syndrome, it's not like a psychological diagnosis. It's a real phenomenon that so many people have struggled with.
00:03:08
Daina
And I guess my kind of running definition with it is the undeserved untrue idea that you're not good enough or worthy to be in the space that you're in and
00:03:21
Krystal Thomas
Ooh, that's good.
00:03:23
Daina
Yeah I feel like because there's so many little buckets and like components to it so I think undeserved you've worked hard like you deserve to have what you have or be where you are so a lot of times the thoughts of imposter syndrome it's undeserved it's untrue because you have facts to back it up
Societal Standards and Childhood Confidence
00:03:45
Daina
you're qualified you've had the experience whatever is necessary to be in the job or the group or in the space that you're in um and then like the not good enough and the worthy i also kind of do like divide because they're not good enough i think of someone's credentials right like maybe you don't think you went to the right school or got good enough grades or don't have the accolades or whatever to be where you are and then the worthy part i see as like
00:04:03
Krystal Thomas
Mmhmm.
00:04:17
Daina
your own person like you as a person don't deserve to have something good. So I see those as almost like separate.
00:04:22
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:04:25
Daina
And then the space that you're in, that's also crucial because a lot of times imposter syndrome is triggered when you're already in the space. You don't have imposter syndrome when you're like, oh, I want to be a CEO and I have imposter syndrome.
00:04:39
Daina
A lot of times it triggers heavily when you're already there. So you've already made it in,
00:04:43
Krystal Thomas
Mmhmm.
Imposter Syndrome in Career Paths
00:04:44
Daina
you're already there, you pass the test, the interviews, whatever, and you're there and you're like, whoa, do I deserve this?
00:04:52
Daina
So yeah that's kind of been the running definition for me and I think each of those components have flared up differently within like my own experiences.
00:05:02
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, do you have a, I know I'm putting you on the spot, but when, again, knowing that we've been talking about this a little bit in in some of our conversations, um when have you experienced, can you give us like an example?
00:05:16
Daina
Yeah, I think it's interesting because as a kid, I was incredibly confident. Looking back, I laugh at the audacity I had to be moving the weight.
00:05:25
Krystal Thomas
I know, right? We were so bold, man. No fear.
00:05:30
Daina
literally fearless. I mean pros and cons to that but I think the confidence a lot of us had as children it's squashed by society and it's so sad to look back and see sometimes we have explicit situations that have like quashed it it's gradually happened um but I think uh when I started so for example when I started dance I had been dancing for most of my life but I joined ballet and I'm short and curvy and love you know my body, my image, all that kind of stuff. But I think dancing with really tall, skinny girls and look literally staring in the mirror, I think at my peak I was probably dancing maybe 15 hours a week. So spending that much time in the mirror and the goal of ballet is literally comparing bodies and shapes and movements. So I feel like that led to a lot of imposter syndrome of like, oh wow, I don't look like everyone else.
00:06:27
Daina
some of these like movements or desires
Faith and Overcoming Self-Doubt
00:06:30
Daina
or forms or shapes aren't always catered to someone who looks like me and of course looking back you're like oh i'm curvy and then you look back and you're like oh my gosh i'm so tiny that area and then of course in academia i'm so grateful to be
00:06:32
Krystal Thomas
Oh. Yeah.
00:06:41
Krystal Thomas
I always made fun size to make myself feel better.
00:06:56
Daina
like in the legal career and doing a job that I love and I've dreamed of being in this world for so long but I think internships and jobs I've gotten when I've walked into the room hired already I've been like oh Not many people look like me.
00:07:14
Daina
I don't have as much expertise as other people. Am I supposed to to be here? And it'll come to comparing my grades to my classmates, comparing myself. And of course, it's not fair and not realistic, but comparing myself to other attorneys who had been in the field for many years.
00:07:33
Daina
But why is it my product at the same level, even though I had just started off?
00:07:33
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:07:37
Daina
So I think it's been woven throughout my career and I've really had to shake myself out of that phenomenon because it slips in so easily.
00:07:47
Krystal Thomas
Right. And I love, I mean, there's so many components to how you are defining imposter syndrome. And I know for me, even listening, I'm sure anyone listening was like, Oh my gosh, yes, that's exactly it.
00:07:57
Krystal Thomas
That's how I feel.
00:07:58
Daina
a
00:07:58
Krystal Thomas
And it's one of those, it's like, it doesn't matter like how much, ah like how you were qualified or what you have, like, it's just the way that you, how you view yourself and how you perceive others view you.
00:08:09
Daina
yeah
00:08:11
Krystal Thomas
I mean, like, I know for me, especially as someone who is often called to go first in a lot of areas, which is very hard when you like how you've been sharing when you were the other or you were different in a lot of capacities that it can just be very like I don't think the same way a bit different and instead of rather seeing it as a strength or like the fact that a company may have hired you because of that difference right or because of that perspective that you bring
00:08:27
Daina
Yes.
00:08:33
Daina
Exactly. Yes.
00:08:36
Krystal Thomas
rather you start to believe like lies about yourself, right?
00:08:39
Daina
100%.
00:08:41
Krystal Thomas
and And again, we also know that there are sometimes there are people who um may have their own, I'm trying to figure out how to say this in the most polite way possible.
00:08:51
Krystal Thomas
There are also people who are not for you, right? Like I know from growing up in West Virginia and having, you know, like teachers like be shocked that, you know, I um understand material or that um I can read or things like that right and so ah what I don't want is that we're ignoring that there's a very real thing that happens to people and again not just I mean both of us are are black women but you know one of the the gifts that I feel I've you know God has given me access to so many people's different stories and different perspectives and I think that's something that's also important that imposter syndrome
00:09:09
Daina
yes.
00:09:31
Krystal Thomas
can impact anyone. It's not just tied to like a certain group. and like I think about you know the experience of people who may come to this country and English isn't their first language. right what are like How are doors closed to them or or what are their perspectives that they have as well too? and so Yeah, it's an issue that I think is impacting so many people, but we don't talk about it.
00:09:50
Daina
Yeah.
00:09:50
Krystal Thomas
It's like we're all suffering in silence by ourselves as opposed to having a conversation.
00:09:52
Daina
We are. It's crazy.
00:09:55
Krystal Thomas
you know like we We've been doing about um what's going on because it's so interesting.
00:09:57
Daina
Yeah.
00:10:01
Krystal Thomas
I was talking to someone else about my background in a conflict resolution and my focus was on intra and interpersonal conflict. And someone was like, intra?
00:10:12
Krystal Thomas
Like within yourself? I was like, yeah, man.
00:10:13
Daina
Absolutely. The biggest thought.
00:10:17
Krystal Thomas
There's a lot there.
00:10:19
Daina
Yays.
00:10:19
Krystal Thomas
like But like even in that, it's like, do we spend time to think in that? like What are the things that we are telling ourselves? So I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit to the next question. you know I do that. I get so excited. So we talked about how this imposter syndrome and how um we're defining it, that um oftentimes it leads to you believing lies about yourself.
00:10:38
Krystal Thomas
So um I asked Dana to be very vulnerable with us. ah And ah let's just go ahead and thank her for for being so gracious and and so open and honest.
00:10:51
Krystal Thomas
But um I'd love to hear, and I'll share too, um what is the lie that you have believed about yourself and how has this impacted you?
00:10:59
Daina
Absolutely. um And it's funny because, and Crystal knows I'm a really private person.
00:11:05
Krystal Thomas
I know, man.
00:11:05
Daina
And so
00:11:07
Krystal Thomas
I was like, woo, I got her.
00:11:10
Daina
And it's funny because this topic means so much to me that I'm willing to like put it out there because like you said, suffering is silence. We've done it for too long.
00:11:20
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:11:21
Daina
um I mean, I mentioned kind of the body image things when I was growing up, but I think the most prevalent one recently has been work related and has been, am I smart enough?
00:11:33
Krystal Thomas
Oh yeah.
00:11:34
Daina
Honestly. And I think that big bucket, there's a lot of smaller components that fall into it. And what's so difficult is at work amplifying my mistakes and the reactions to my mistakes and then downplaying any critique my coworkers and colleagues get.
00:11:52
Daina
And it's been so, so difficult. And I will say like I literally have the most incredible team I've ever worked with. I love all of my team members were very small. There's only six of us and they're so wonderful and kind and supportive. But I feel like even in that space, the negative self-talk can be so prevalent because then I'm comparing myself, yes, sometimes to my coworkers, but a lot of times to myself.
00:12:19
Daina
and so I'll see something I write getting redlined or feedback and I'm just like oh that was bad instead of realizing my bosses are literally doing their job or I'm not writing for myself I'm writing for my organization that it's above me and so whatever is published or put out there isn't my voice it's whatever the like
00:12:20
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:12:43
Daina
theme or like line is that needs to be publicized. So yeah definitely the intellectual component and I think even in undergrad, law school, all these different stages in academia that definitely happened.
00:13:00
Daina
And I'm glad you mentioned earlier about you know people coming to this country. I'm also an immigrant. So I think there's layers to this where it's like, I'm a woman, I'm black, I'm an immigrant, and I'm pretty young compared to my coworkers.
00:13:05
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:13:14
Krystal Thomas
her
00:13:14
Daina
So when you add all of those components, it's like, oh, of course the negative self-talk wants to trickle in.
00:13:19
Krystal Thomas
It's like, how did I get here? I snuck in here.
00:13:21
Daina
I snuck in.
00:13:21
Krystal Thomas
Not that like they actually pursued it.
00:13:24
Daina
Lily!
00:13:25
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, I was like, okay, I'm just going to slide that one and in there just so y'all know. But yeah, no, that's real. That's real.
00:13:31
Daina
yeah it's so real and it's funny because the phrase like failing up makes me laugh so hard but i feel like some people who struggle with imposter syndrome it really sometimes feels like they failed up and i was like absolutely not like we're not going to diminish all of your hard work sleepless nights all the exams everything you took so yeah i think that's the biggest the biggest yeah
00:13:58
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
00:13:58
Daina
but
00:14:01
Krystal Thomas
And I love what you said about how like rather than, you know, instead of seeing like the critique or the feedback that you get on what you're writing, right it's more of like, oh, this was an error.
00:14:13
Krystal Thomas
It's like, I'm an error, or I failed. as it like And you don't separate it.
00:14:16
Daina
you need exactly
00:14:18
Krystal Thomas
And so for me, I always talk about how the underlying lie that I have to constantly ah fight against is rejection. um And so what's that resulted in is like this need of like performance and proving worth improving value. And so compare it like piled on with imposter syndrome, it's like I'm striving to not only prove to others that I should be there, but even to myself, which is wild.
00:14:46
Daina
no
00:14:47
Krystal Thomas
And so like I know especially like when I was called in into ministry and I left more of the corporate environment where it's very much like, you got to play the game or you get taken out.
00:14:57
Daina
Yes.
00:14:58
Krystal Thomas
ah um
00:14:59
Daina
Yes.
00:14:59
Krystal Thomas
and like as a you know We'll talk more about like faith and how this all intersects and and like being in a space where you know as I'm growing in faith and trying to live fully in Christ and wanting life to feel and look differently, like that requires a shift.
00:15:16
Krystal Thomas
it's very similar with um how I view myself. And so the word that I often use when I'm talking about a lot of the spiritual maturity that I've gone through over these last couple of years has really been like a gentleness, right? Never a million years did I imagine a person who was hurt by the church, angry at the church for many years, like spoke very harshly of the church.
00:15:40
Krystal Thomas
um to then be a person that is now like back in the church, like working a minister, like really focused on healing and and being a bridge. And so again, it's one of those of like, wow, God, like look at, look look at what you've done. But I think in the back of my mind, I also have to be aware of like, really you, you're the person that, that, you know, they, they called to be a minister. Are you sure?
00:16:05
Krystal Thomas
That's why I'm like, yeah, my leaders believe in me. It's almost like arguing yourself, but like especially when I am exhausted or when I am just feeling really weary or when there's just a lot of different things that are going on.
00:16:18
Krystal Thomas
like i like It's so easy to hear that voice of like, well, you're not as smart as that person or like how come you didn't make that connection?
00:16:24
Daina
know
00:16:26
Krystal Thomas
or like what if like da da da da da and you just like you spend so much time like getting in your own head that it's so much easier to believe that lie rather than the fact that like no I'm in this room because the people like you said you have an amazing team and people who are surrounding you who believe in you um but when you know when we're like operating in that frame of mind it's like that's all we hear
00:16:51
Daina
Yes.
00:16:52
Krystal Thomas
um And it can be very hard even when you have like affirming words of other people or um other people like speaking life or like affirming you, it's it's hard to kind of shed shed that mindset.
00:17:04
Daina
Absolutely. And I'm glad you mentioned the rejection component because I realized I've also dabbled with that and then it manifests as people pleasing.
00:17:06
Krystal Thomas
you
00:17:13
Daina
And that's the most exhausting thing to have.
00:17:15
Krystal Thomas
Ooh! Yeah.
00:17:18
Daina
It's rough.
00:17:18
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:17:19
Daina
here
00:17:20
Krystal Thomas
It is, because then it's like, okay, as someone who loves, like, people and like, like relationships, like it's just not like for you to be in a posture of just people pleasing, even though your heart may be in the right place.
00:17:36
Krystal Thomas
It's just like a you're not being real, they know you're not being real, you know what I mean?
00:17:40
Daina
Yes.
00:17:41
Krystal Thomas
You're just not able to really fully be present, which I feel like is just such a missed opportunity. And I know for me as someone who I love Jackie Hill Perry always says like she describes it as a instead of saying people who are empathetic it's people with a heart of mercy because I think it's just such a like it's just like yes it's what it is it's what what it is um that like especially someone who's called to to really the suffering and the hurt and the needs that I see in the world around me and the Pete and the people and the stories that that can be
00:17:58
Daina
Oh, that's good.
00:18:12
Daina
Yeah.
00:18:15
Krystal Thomas
Like it's like one on the one side with imposter syndrome of like who are you to think that like you can handle this or who are you to think that like
00:18:18
Daina
Wow.
00:18:24
Krystal Thomas
Like why would God choose you? Why would God send you? Like, right? Like you start to believe those lies. But then on the on the flip side, and I think something that we don't often talk about with imposter syndrome is this mentality of I have to prove I can do it and I can do it in my own strength. And so yeah, it's like a, it's a both end and the the way and how pride and fear and all of those things can get tangled into it. And again, like the whole thing that's happening, it's,
00:18:49
Krystal Thomas
It's just sad being like living in the world that we do today where there's a lot of competition, there's a lot of social comparison. There's a lot, especially in the area that we're in, you're always on, right?
00:19:00
Daina
Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:01
Krystal Thomas
We're really fighting against culture to make margin, to make room, to rest. And so it's almost like having to retrain. Retrain the mind, retrain the heart, retrain where, of course, you're putting your value.
00:19:13
Krystal Thomas
um Yeah.
00:19:14
Daina
Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree.
00:19:16
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. So, uh, for the next question, uh, again, I keep jumping ahead. I'm so sorry.
00:19:23
Daina
No, love it. yeah
00:19:24
Krystal Thomas
It's so excited. Everyone listening, they're like, we we know, Crystal, you love to do this all the time. Uh, but the next question is, um, how has your faith helped you when navigating imposter syndrome?
00:19:41
Krystal Thomas
Oh, we about to get, Oh, let me, let me take a sip of water.
00:19:41
Daina
I...
00:19:43
Krystal Thomas
Oh, it's about to be good.
00:19:45
Daina
Time that sip. Honestly, sometimes as I've wrestled with it, I truly am also like, God, how do people who don't have you do it?
00:19:55
Krystal Thomas
i know
00:19:55
Daina
Because we here, that's my guy. I love God so, so much. That's my person, my confidant. And even with that camaraderie and companionship, it can be so difficult.
00:20:11
Daina
So yeah I don't even want to know what it's like without faith but I think for me it's really helped to refocus and recenter how I'm approaching all of this and allow me to step back because I feel like someone like me who sometimes there's ruminations and like your thoughts are just going a hundred miles a minute
00:20:20
Krystal Thomas
I know.
00:20:31
Daina
that faith and stepping back and reminding myself, I'm God's creation. I'm not here by mistake.
00:20:39
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:20:39
Daina
He's walking alongside me. He's not giving me more than I can bear. He's placing me in every environment I'm in and just realizing that I'm just an instrument for whatever purpose he has, has really allowed me to just like take a breath and occupy the space that I'm in.
00:20:58
Daina
and I feel like so I mentioned as a kid I was so confident and then um during you know regular teenage tween whatever years I think I really struggled with that confidence and then during adulthood I gained it back and I'm so grateful I did and now I walk into spaces and people are like wow you really have so much like confidence and commensurate space around you And they're not even realizing it took years and conscious choice for me to walk like that.
00:21:25
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:21:27
Daina
So I think faith is really... given me the confidence that I know I don't deserve anything I have. It is God's grace, it's his mercy, it's his favor. And once I reframe it like that, it shifts from the imposter syndrome of I don't deserve this and why am I here to, oh, I know all of that. Yet I serve a God who's merciful and loves me enough that he still grants me everything I'm in, everything I have, so.
00:21:57
Daina
Yeah, it really has helped me reshift and reframe that.
00:22:01
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, and and to be reminded, yeah, I want to just echo everything everything you're saying and I think also in the fact that we don't have to do it in our own strength.
00:22:10
Daina
Yes.
00:22:11
Krystal Thomas
Right? And so like, even when I look over at my life where I feel like I'm like, I feel like I fell into a bunch of little things or like, there's a lot of little things I love doing and I'm like, ah you know, especially like looking at some of my friends or peers where it's like, it seems like it's been a very straightforward line and in where God is calling them and like, or like, where, what careers they choose, right?
00:22:28
Daina
Yeah.
00:22:33
Krystal Thomas
And um feeling like, okay, well, why does doesn't my life look like that? Like, what what is going on? What am I doing wrong? in realizing that, like, no, you know, especially as I am getting older, maturing spiritually, starting to see how a lot of these things are all coming together. And it's, again, that reminder of um having a relationship with God where I know that I can trust Him enough to to cover it anything and all the things that I lack, and that he's the one that has placed me there, and he's the one whose my identity is in.
00:23:02
Daina
Yeah.
00:23:08
Krystal Thomas
And I think for anyone who's listening who you're like, okay, that's great y'all Christians, but like, I'm not, that's great you do the Jesus thing. um I would just want to encourage you that you know it's like we're speaking from a place of like years of of mentorship and and development and like look if y'all met crystal back when she was
00:23:28
Daina
and i do
00:23:33
Krystal Thomas
fresh out of the world, it was a different it was a different story.
00:23:36
Daina
Yes.
00:23:37
Krystal Thomas
right And so we say all of this not from a place of like having it completely figured out, but one in which like it has been a journey in allowing our faith and our relationship with Jesus Christ to inform how we view ourselves, especially when it's very different than how the world views us.
00:23:38
Daina
it's
00:23:52
Daina
yeah
00:23:56
Krystal Thomas
And so that would be my encouragement to you. like If you are on the fence about you know church, I know like a lot of people are still probably processing about the election and just figuring out the future and all of that. like Look, like if you are looking for a space, if you are looking for a church or a community just to kind of lean in, like please, please reach out.
00:24:18
Daina
Yeah.
00:24:19
Krystal Thomas
um
00:24:21
Krystal Thomas
Because now more than ever, it's so important to be reminded that when we are silent and suffering by ourselves, that is just where things, the enemy, that's where things just get harder. That's where we get isolated. um And especially in a season where there can be so much loneliness. And so we're saying all of this, I'm hoping it's being heard and and resonating as not from a place of um Well, look at us, look at what we've done, but rather instead, wow, look at what God has brought us through. And if he can do that for us, then he can do it for you. And so if you are combating this, and man, I'm doing it again, going right into the next question.
00:25:01
Krystal Thomas
um But like wanting to like give advice and and to remind you that it's not impossible to to think differently about yourself, to think differently about um like how how you can combat imposter syndrome.
00:25:15
Krystal Thomas
So Dana, I'm going to stop talking because I want to hear from you.
00:25:18
Daina
Nah, this is good.
00:25:19
Krystal Thomas
ah Sorry, I can't help it.
00:25:20
Daina
I was like metaphorically snappy.
00:25:21
Krystal Thomas
I started talking about Jesus and I just, sorry.
00:25:24
Daina
No, it's good.
00:25:25
Krystal Thomas
ah Um, what advice would you give to someone? And I'm going to, I'm switching the question a little bit, which I'm sorry. I didn't, I didn't tell you beforehand, but what would you say to someone if who was navigating imposter syndrome right now? And I would say someone who is in the, like has a relationship with God and Jesus and maybe someone, and then the person that might be like on the fence or like not really sure. Like what advice would you give all of them?
00:25:51
Daina
Yeah and no I loved your spiel about you know walking with God and the transition because I think I always tell people I was born and raised in the church but there came a time in early adulthood probably end of high school where I rededicated my life and made that decision so I always tell people yes our paths may start differently but they merge in a sense where each of us have to make that decision ourselves whatever period in life that may come
00:26:14
Krystal Thomas
Right.
00:26:17
Daina
um so yeah advice so something that for me has been the like soil and food for imposter syndrome has been that negative self-talk and i think that's what has really kept like propelled it so i would say just like
00:26:30
Krystal Thomas
a
00:26:38
Daina
sometimes like just verbally switching up how you speak to yourself. And I think if it's been subconscious and something you've struggled with for so long, you may have to vocally out loud be like, I am smart.
00:26:54
Daina
or i can do hard things or i am loved or i am accepted or whatever phrases you need to be saying to yourself regularly and i love the little videos of the parents who like have their kids in the mirror every morning and do those i love watching them and be like oh that's a good one like putting that into my rotation
00:27:08
Krystal Thomas
Oh yeah, and they're like, I am smart, I am. I'm like, oh, yes, I love it, I'm here for it.
00:27:18
Krystal Thomas
Writing it down for ourselves, yeah. ah
00:27:21
Daina
And it's funny because we're like, oh, it's cute. It's sweet want to pinch to their cheeks, but I think foundationally that is incredibly helpful because like we've said like sometimes you really have to just go back to that child like trust and love and joy where we see ourselves as valuable and So yeah, so first is just like switching vocally that talk and like replacing the negative or positive um, and then um I think, so I've worked with college kids a lot recently and they're the best.
00:27:57
Daina
Love them, they're so kind. If anyone were to do anything to them, I would go feral. Like I would be so mad.
00:28:02
Krystal Thomas
Oh, y'all heard it in here first.
00:28:04
Daina
um Yeah, I'm so protective. Do not mess with my kids. Like, yeah, you heard it here. And the way I'm so protective and love on them so much, sometimes I don't do that with myself.
00:28:19
Krystal Thomas
yeah
00:28:19
Daina
And I think we, um but and I realized that recently and I was like, God, I'm so sorry. And so I think for believers and anyone who's on the fence, like just recognizing how loved you are, how uniquely you've been created, your flaws are not flaws. They are ways in which you can either grow or reach out to others.
00:28:43
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:28:43
Daina
I think just recognizing how valuable we are has also foundationally helped with that.
00:28:46
Krystal Thomas
Ooh.
00:28:49
Daina
So I say those two things have been really helpful for me.
00:28:52
Krystal Thomas
Oh, that's so good.
00:28:53
Daina
Yeah.
00:28:53
Krystal Thomas
I i did this ah research project in undergrad where I spent time talking about the saliency of identity for black women. Such a good project.
00:29:05
Krystal Thomas
um But there was a line that someone had said is like, you know, I had to think about like, if I look back at the 12 year old version of myself, would I say that to her?
00:29:17
Daina
Wow, absolutely.
00:29:19
Krystal Thomas
And we all stop.
00:29:20
Daina
Yeah.
00:29:21
Krystal Thomas
I was like, Whoa, it's just like some of us because we've been doing it for so long.
00:29:22
Daina
Yeah.
00:29:25
Krystal Thomas
um Yeah, and especially when you have like very high standards and you're a overachiever and like, especially in your workplace, sometimes like that is actually valued as opposed to like how you're actually doing internally, right?
00:29:34
Daina
Yes.
00:29:38
Krystal Thomas
um And it's like like, you're like, whoa, if I would not say that to my friend, like why am I saying that to me?
00:29:46
Daina
Exactly.
00:29:46
Krystal Thomas
And like exactly like you said, like that you are loved, um that you were intentionally and fearfully made. um And I know for some people that's hard to accept and that's hard to believe and to receive love that you feel like you didn't deserve or earn, right?
00:30:06
Krystal Thomas
Because a lot of us you know may even have um Even in our relationships, it's more transactional as opposed to, sorry, my cat is having a field day in the background, y'all. I'm so sorry.
00:30:18
Daina
Guys, she's very cute.
00:30:18
Krystal Thomas
ah
00:30:19
Daina
You can't see her, but she's so cute.
00:30:20
Krystal Thomas
I know. She's having a ball.
00:30:25
Krystal Thomas
But yeah, and so, you know, that that would also be my advice too, is like, even if like, I found myself having to ask myself that question, like, if I saw the 12 year old version of myself, would I say that to her?
00:30:37
Daina
Yeah.
00:30:38
Krystal Thomas
And like, even earlier when I was talking about there's like a gentleness, it's like relearning how to be gentle, not only with others, but also with ourselves.
00:30:45
Daina
yeah
00:30:46
Krystal Thomas
um And like being intentional about what what you say about yourself. I know for me, um I think what's also been helpful is knowing God. like um There's so many names for God that speak to his character. And the one that I always gravitate towards is God being Elroy, the God who sees.
00:31:05
Krystal Thomas
And I think that's what's been so encouraging for me, especially in those moments where I do feel fair, when I do um feel like, I'm like, Lord, like I know we don't have more than we can carry, but it feels like it's more than I can carry, right?
00:31:20
Daina
Yes.
00:31:23
Krystal Thomas
But yeah, God being a boy, the God who sees, who like can see the pain, can see the suffering, um but is also actively involved in my life and in the lives of others. And so what's been really comforting for me is just as, you know,
00:31:38
Krystal Thomas
I've been prompted to like reach out to that person, to reach out to a person or to pray over someone or to give a word to someone. God, I'm actively seeing God have other people do the same for me or even like give that to me directly as well too. And I think that's what's been something it like, especially some like, Lord, I'm like,
00:31:57
Krystal Thomas
I want to believe that I am loved, that I am fearfully and wonderfully made by you, like help me to see that today, right?
00:32:00
Daina
Yeah.
00:32:03
Krystal Thomas
And I know for some of you who it's like, you know, I don't even know about this faith thing, like those, some of those desperate prayers are the reason why I'm here today, right? um And so, yeah, I just, I know for me that has been such a breath of fresh air of being able to not only reframe how I'm thinking about myself, but inviting in people who I trust to like, when they're um correcting me in love of like, like, man, my counselor, I swear every episode I'm talking about my counselor, but she'll be like, my favorite is when like, she's like, okay, um I want to pause, like, so you said something and you know, when they pull out the notebook, you're like, oh,
00:32:45
Krystal Thomas
Oh, but oh, no.
00:32:45
Daina
You're in trouble. Yeah.
00:32:47
Krystal Thomas
But like, she'll reread what I've said.
00:32:50
Daina
Yeah.
00:32:51
Krystal Thomas
And I was like, Oh, I didn't mean that. She's like, Yeah, but that's what you said. That's what you said about yourself. Right?
00:32:58
Daina
She pulled out receipts on you.
00:32:59
Krystal Thomas
And as I know, uh, I was like, I didn't say that. She was like, now you're going to lie? And I was like, Oh, Lord. Okay. Nevermind. I did. I did. I did. I did forgive me, Jesus. And so like, yeah. So it's like even like having people that you can invite in, um, that can point that out in you. And again, not from a place of like judgmental ju judging or, um, condemning, but as one of like.
00:33:24
Krystal Thomas
Here's how I see you and what you said doesn't align with how I see you or um Yeah, so I would say that too. It's like Inviting in those who trust and use discernment um You must use discernment but Yeah, it's just important that like the negative thoughts that you're believing cannot be the only things that you are hearing um Yeah, yeah, that's what I would say
00:33:40
Daina
Yes, yes, yes.
00:33:50
Daina
Absolutely.
00:33:54
Daina
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of an inner circle.
00:33:56
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:33:56
Daina
And I think they have to, the trust is huge, the discernment is huge. And yeah, there needs to be people who have the most intelligence to hold you in every season. So I completely agree with you.
00:34:06
Krystal Thomas
Absolutely. Absolutely. And especially like, so like full transparency, cause I've put Dana on the spot so much. I know for me, as much as I love the fall and the winter, like I love this time of year.
00:34:19
Daina
Yeah.
00:34:19
Krystal Thomas
Like I know like e like emotionally, it's just kind of a lower period for me. um And it's not because it's not anything that I'm doing and I'm not trying to like speak anything over myself, but it's just one of those where I just have to be very intentional about resting and taking care of myself and doing things that I love and like finding joy and creating um in a way that's just a bit different compared to like other seasons, right?
00:34:46
Krystal Thomas
And so I think it's also important with what Dana is saying is like also knowing what season that you're in and what you need, right?
00:34:53
Daina
Yeah, exactly.
00:34:53
Krystal Thomas
um And so like as we've been sharing all of these options, like to remind you that it's also done in the context of community. um and like Even this podcast came from Dana and I sharing life and talking about like what we're facing.
00:35:04
Daina
Yes.
00:35:06
Krystal Thomas
And so like don't feel like it's something that you have to overcome by yourself.
00:35:08
Daina
Yes.
00:35:11
Krystal Thomas
ah Yeah, but that's all I wanted to add to what Dana said.
00:35:17
Daina
but
00:35:18
Krystal Thomas
So I have two more questions.
00:35:25
Krystal Thomas
I'm wondering if I want to modify it a little bit. I'm pivoting a little. So the next question is, what valuable lessons have you learned throughout your journey with the Lord? Which is a very broad and big question to end on. I know. I know.
00:35:39
Krystal Thomas
um And it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to imposter syndrome because I think that there is something in the conversation that we're having about like asking for help, about allowing people to speak life into us and having that inner circle. Like I think that there is just something that I think is what's resonating a little bit more. And so I might switch it a little bit and say, you know, what has the process been for you in finding that inner circle.
00:36:07
Krystal Thomas
For someone who might be like, yes, that's what I need, but like where do I start?
00:36:07
Daina
Yeah.
00:36:11
Krystal Thomas
like What does that look like? Because I'm not going to lie, making friends in your 30s is different. I mean, you're not in your 30s, but it's different.
00:36:21
Krystal Thomas
It hits different.
00:36:22
Daina
yeah it's i'm right there i'm right there i think someone has said like adulthood is the ghettoest hood i've ever lived in and i was like that's heavy yikes but i think the friendship component of it is difficult especially if you've moved to a different area in your adult life it can be harder i think
00:36:30
Krystal Thomas
Oh, no.
00:36:44
Daina
So I think one of the gifts that I'm so grateful that I have is discernment, and I've seen it but kind of manifest differently throughout life. But I think discernment has really helped me find my inner people and I think I've heard someone say we hear the term of like best friend and we always think oh that's one maybe two people but I've heard someone say like oh that's a tear and I was like oh that's such an interesting kind of analogy visual and so I see it as people who
00:37:16
Daina
One, they have my best interest at heart. And for me, that's definitely more action than words. I've seen them show up for me, hold me when I'm crying, cheer me on when I'm succeeding, and they can do both simultaneously.
00:37:22
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:37:30
Daina
I'm like, okay, those are my people. There are people who, I think for me, my personal inner circle, like they love the Lord and they're giving me you know sound counsel within that. There are people who um in their career or academia we have similar interests so i feel like there's a few factors within it that i'm like okay you're my person because i trust your counsel you've shown up for me i feel like our relationship is reciprocal because i feel like i've also struggled in the past with relationships where i'm fully carrying it and that's been incredibly exhausting
00:38:10
Krystal Thomas
yeah
00:38:10
Daina
And not saying if you don't do anything for me, I don't want you in my life. But it's you have to step back and realize, oh, if I don't text them, when do I hear from them? If I don't call them, when do I hear from them?
00:38:20
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:38:22
Daina
So I think those factors have really helped me find an inner circle. And I'm an extrovert. Usually I have to charge by myself.
00:38:31
Krystal Thomas
I know, I was like, hmm.
00:38:32
Daina
um
00:38:34
Daina
It's funny, literally. Everyone laughs because I think I have a like a gregarious personality, but i I have to spend as much time by myself as I do with people.
00:38:44
Krystal Thomas
I get it, look, I'm learning. I am learning.
00:38:49
Daina
um and so i think sometimes people who are introverted they think they're at a disadvantage when it comes to finding their circle i don't think that's the case i think a lot of introverts at least the ones i know are very good at sensing people's personality pretty quickly and that can absolutely be a strength so yeah i would encourage you to trust your gut The people who will cheer you on and comfort you simultaneously, I've seen that be very important and helpful. Yeah.
00:39:17
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. And I would say like, also for me, I know um there's been like, I have like my counselor, I have a men like several mentors, I have like friends in different spaces.
00:39:30
Krystal Thomas
So like also like, it's okay if it's like for a season or a certain circumstance or things like that.
00:39:31
Daina
yeah
00:39:36
Daina
Yes.
00:39:38
Krystal Thomas
um but i know that there are like some people in like an inner circle that i know like we're doing life together through all of it right and so um that's what i would say is
00:39:46
Daina
Yeah.
00:39:51
Krystal Thomas
allow it to form like I know for me, like where I am now, it has been a prayer for several years. And so don't be discouraged if you're like, well, I want that, but I'm not there. Like, it's one of those that like, honestly, I was praying um and asking and you know, like, again, in a season where there's been a lot of loneliness and and everything. um But what I found is like, throughout all of this, like, I'm rediscovering like who I am, but in the context of healthy relationships.
00:40:25
Krystal Thomas
And um yeah, it's just like a new like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's so much more to me, like when I'm not like, thinking I'm an imposter all the time.
00:40:32
Daina
Yes.
00:40:34
Krystal Thomas
Like, it's like, wow, I actually kind of like myself when I'm not, not thinking those things, right.
00:40:37
Daina
Yes.
00:40:38
Krystal Thomas
And so um yeah, that's what I would say is like, when When you ask and when you pray, like I can look back at my life and yes, there were some times where um there was loneliness and it was hard and i'm not we're what we're not saying is that it's not that it's not difficult sometimes to get to a place where you're like, wow, I have this crew.
00:40:59
Krystal Thomas
I have, I have my people, but to not stop seeking or desiring or praying for it and trusting that the people that you need, the people that are going to be with you in, in whatever season that you're in are going to come.
00:41:16
Krystal Thomas
Um, and to be encouraged in that.
00:41:19
Daina
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:41:20
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:41:21
Daina
And I think some good tangible recommendations. There are groups, I don't know if people are still like using Facebook for groups, Instagram has certain things.
00:41:28
Krystal Thomas
Oh, ah Facebook.
00:41:30
Daina
Yeah, um that's a throwback. I have heard people utter the word they have uttered the word but i think there's things like running clubs and knitting circles and book clubs and all these other small little niche things where i'm like if you have any remote tiny interest in something going and checking out the group like i don't know some of them will have open evenings stuff like that so really that's a really good tangible way of oh i've always wanted to learn how to
00:42:02
Daina
knit and finding a group like that so i think when it comes to that like tangibly but being willing to put yourself out there for your seeking community as well yeah no no no no oh yeah no
00:42:11
Krystal Thomas
That's so good. And it did yeah, because I think that's so important. It doesn't always have to start off super deep. Like a lot of things we do, it's like everything is super deep. Yeah, I think it's a really good point, Dana.
00:42:23
Krystal Thomas
So my last question, I know I'm so sad that we're like at the last question. It's just a sign Dana has to come back.
00:42:28
Daina
yeah
00:42:30
Krystal Thomas
is Is there anything else that maybe we didn't get to cover that you wanted to share with everybody?
00:42:36
Daina
man god loves you
00:42:38
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:42:40
Daina
I think that's such a beautiful overarching theme and I think what's great for anyone who is a believer, who was literally born in the church, someone who doesn't really believe in God, I think that's just a through thread in all of our lives because regardless of where we are or what we believe or how we're walking through life, that love is always evident. Man, God loves you.
00:43:03
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:43:04
Daina
whether we know it or not. So I think that has been so helpful and their times are just that simple statement can help carry you through a season because you can feel isolated, overwhelmed, confused,
00:43:14
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:43:19
Daina
imposter syndrome anything in between but that love and intentionality i know that's helped me so much and the simplicity of it too it's like i don't have to overthink it sometimes dealing with humans we are complicated which is beautiful but can also be difficult so it's nice to remind yourself of a simple consistent truth like that so yeah i'll just say god loves you
00:43:34
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:48
Krystal Thomas
That's good. And I think it's the perfect way to wrap up.
00:43:51
Daina
Yay.
00:43:52
Krystal Thomas
So thank you so much, Dana, for being with us.
00:43:55
Daina
Yes.
00:43:55
Krystal Thomas
I hope you had fun. I had fun.
00:43:57
Daina
It was fantastic. I'm so glad we did this.
00:43:59
Krystal Thomas
Yes, and so um remember that there is more than enough space for you to be seen and to see others. We'll talk to you all next time. Bye.