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Bruce Da Silva - Mastering Realities
28 Plays13 days ago
Bruce is a Personal Coach who helps men Master Their Reality. Great (and long!) convo about modern dating and what it is to be a man. I think Bruce and I see a few things through different lenses, I really enjoyed the conversation! I hope you do, too!
https://www.instagram.com/bruce_dasilva/
https://www.youtube.com/@bruce_dasilva
music - "Lofi & Love" by NottyVonDutch -https://soundcloud.com/nottyvondutch - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:11
Speaker
Hi there. Hi again. It's been a while. So hello again. Welcome to Wish You All the Best, a personal podcast about modern dating. I'm your host, Scott Simmons. This time around, I've got a long, long episode with Bruce Da Silva, who's a personal personal coach.
00:00:27
Speaker
um He knows all kinds of stuff. I'll put the stuff in the in the show notes, bruce-da-silva, D-A-S-I-L-V-A. d a s i l v a BruceDeSilva.com. um ah This one is interesting. Bruce bruce has a ah very,
00:00:43
Speaker
um ah you know, he puts a lot of work, time and effort into how he thinks about modern dating and a lot of things. But of course, from this podcast, we talked a lot about dating, questions about how to be a man, um sort of, we never really got to dig too, too deep into sort of the masculine and the feminine. I think that's kind of a tricky thing to pin down, something I'm always interested in chatting about.
00:01:06
Speaker
um ah But I thought we had a great conversation. And I think we do, I think we come at some things from sort of different angles. um But I kind of felt through this pod like we found a lot of common ground.
00:01:19
Speaker
Maybe we're just two really kind dudes being able to see stuff from each other's perspective, but I don't know. I thought it was a great chat. i'd check Check his stuff out. If what he's saying is resonating with you, definitely give it
Podcast Goals: Redefining Masculinity in Dating
00:01:32
Speaker
a look. um And, you know, I think in general, the project of this Little Passion Projects podcast is for men to talk to each other about what it's like out there dating.
00:01:45
Speaker
Just be vulnerable and honest about what's going on. I think this is a i think this is a time of change for men. I think i think we're kind of recalibrating
00:01:55
Speaker
what it is to be man. And I think this conversation kind of gets around that a little bit. So I had a lot of fun with it. I hope you enjoy it as well. Thank you as always for listening. And here it is, my conversation with Bruce Da Silva.
00:02:09
Speaker
All right, Bruce Da Silva, welcome to wish you all the best for the listeners. Please know this is our second our second try at this. We had a little bit of technical difficulty. That's okay. We're just going to start it again.
00:02:20
Speaker
um ah Bruce Da Silva, welcome to the pod, man. I'm excited for us to talk. ah Let me hand you the microphone. Please introduce yourself. Yeah, so introduce myself back to back. That's a unique one, but we'll do it again. It's all good. Yeah, well, hello, everybody. Welcome to the pod. Appreciate you, Scott, for taking me out.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, in short, I'm really condensate. Bruce, I'm in my late 20s, relevant for the perspectives I'll i'll share within the pod. um I'm currently living LA. I'm relatively well-traveled. spent my time growing up, up until 18 in New Jersey, then moved to Tampa, Florida for undergrad for four years. Then I moved to Morocco with the Peace Corps for a year.
00:02:59
Speaker
From there, I moved to Tel Aviv, of Israel to get my master's in conflict resolution and mediation. And then that's when COVID hit. So then I moved back to the States, lived in DC for two and a half years, was doing some work there, pivoting a little bit with what I wanted. And then after that, moved to actually pack my bags, everything, put it in my car, drove across country.
00:03:19
Speaker
out to LA sort of chase that dream that I had of living out West. I always wanted to, never really took the leap. So with all that, it gives me sort of a holistic perspective to some extent with different cultures, different attitudes, different belief systems.
00:03:34
Speaker
But mainly with all that, I really try to piece that together And find how I can couple that with the education I got, not just in school, but in life and in reading and texts and seeking workshops, all
Bruce's Journey and Wisdom
00:03:45
Speaker
that stuff. And how I can implement it and basically helping people think more clearly and helping them bridge the gap from their ignorance to ah ideally where their wisdom is at. ah So for myself, I'm really passionate about it in the sense of I think a lot of unnecessary pain comes from ignorance.
00:04:02
Speaker
And while ignorance is the greatest the greatest scientific discovery of all time, if we live there for too long, it can actually do some work. So with that, my focus is working on people to help them bridge that gap. Right now, I'm mainly focused on guys in their twenty s thirty s but also worked with women and just being a speaker that's educating and helping people think more clearly.
00:04:23
Speaker
And as well with that, being vegan, I'm really passionate about ah how we can live an ethical, healthy lifestyle. So for me, that meant taking more difficult physical challenges, which proud to say I just became an Ironman, which it's a big physical feat about less about a month ago.
00:04:40
Speaker
And it's all about my mind. How do we make something of our time here on earth and try to leave something behind. ah Because if we're not doing something that at least galvanates our soul and our spirit, I don't know what we're really doing.
00:04:56
Speaker
And for me, I'm just not interested in that so much. So I think the best way to do it is lead by example, and grow, and just try not to make too many mistakes along the way. Fantastic.
00:05:08
Speaker
um Yeah, okay. So so if if I can kind of reflect that back a little bit, and I did a little bit of digging on you as well, we were connected by our mutual friend Brian, he's a great guy. And he knew that we would have a great conversation. So I did some digging.
00:05:20
Speaker
And I'd love to point my listeners to Bruce dash to Silva.com. It'll be in the show notes, go check it out. If you like a Bruce is saying here, that's a great place to check him out. You can also folks can also find you on boarder podcasts are found YouTube, Instagram, you're you're on all the socials, you're doing great out there.
Challenges in Modern Dating for Young Men
00:05:37
Speaker
the the The aspect of your of your content and of your thinking and of your kind of personal coaching, i think that of course resonates with me is you know the difficulties I think that especially young men have around dating. I think it's a really fascinating time for that. I think it's really tricky.
00:05:53
Speaker
And I think it's important, right? I want to say it's important, right? Like the dating is is the is the the practice of us trying to find a life partner, right? And that can be, I think in most cases, that's the the biggest decision you make in your life, I would argue. For me, i think that's true. So I think this is a big deal, you know, and I think in general, it kind of doesn't get maybe the attention it deserves right now, I think. um Anyway, so I'm excited that you're paying attention to it. And and if I can open up here um with just a broad question, like I would love to hear if you can, um like like a ah core philosophy on what dating is like for men, or maybe maybe it's just for everyone. Like what what what's the core like worldview on how modern dating is working for you um um um that you're bringing to ah these young men who who I'm sure, you know, are looking for the support. Does that make sense?
00:06:43
Speaker
It does. And I think one of the ways, sort of a metaphor to use that is a little jarring in the beginning, but it's that the world is flat. Not meaning that it's literally if you go in the ocean, you'll go over the edge of the water into the abyss, but more so it's flat, meaning the the global, the playing field, I say playing specifically, is flat, meaning you're no longer in an isolated sort of corner like my parents were in Brazil, where they grew up.
00:07:09
Speaker
10-minute walk from each other. they maybe be had There's a pool of maybe 5, 10, 15 maybe people that were actual maybe viable options. But now you're competing. And i i don't even necessarily like to use the term competing, but what I've noticed is that if there's very a very small percentage of specifically men who are having an abundance of choice, I think that changes the landscape a bit.
00:07:32
Speaker
And a lot of guys are getting smoked in the sense that they're not necessarily aware. and Now that they're not aware, what is the desire to actually go out and improve themselves when there's a lot of risk?
00:07:44
Speaker
Now you go out as a guy, you make a mistake, it gets on social, you get humiliated, whatever happens, right? Maybe you're not being taught it by people in your community. Because for me, the dating and mating is all about how can you find common value and how can you have a playful dynamic with somebody?
00:07:58
Speaker
Because I'm sorry, people say, oh, you know, I went on this date and i don't know what happened. I thought it went well. Okay, tell me about it. How'd it go? Well, I was asking questions and it was good, blah, blah, blah. And then after about two minutes, I would ask myself, let me ask you a question.
00:08:11
Speaker
Why are you on this date as if it's an interview? If you start the date like an interview, it's going to end like a firework. you're You're taking this way too seriously, right? So things like that, that a lot of guys aren't being taught.
00:08:23
Speaker
ah So I think with that lack of awareness and the alternative of just escaping into your phone, escaping into ah ah adult content, whatever it might be, yeah there's really what is the incentive for you to now take part in the and the game, the playful game that also women also want you to be a part of.
00:08:41
Speaker
Right. Sure. So I think the challenge is the world's flat. ah Most guys don't know how to actually place themselves in the the scene. And I think there's just a fundamental a lack of awareness as to what actually drives attraction.
00:08:56
Speaker
Because without attraction, what is the point of a relationship? I mean, that is, you know, values, vision, But if there's no attraction, then you're kind of just two roommates living together, dividing the rent. And I don't know how that fosters an environment where we have a polarity, be the environment if it matters for you to have children and then see to have this sort of playful. i don't want to say tug of war, but sort of this playful sort of a dance with one another instead of wrestling with one another.
00:09:23
Speaker
So for me, I concluded with until most men understand that the sort of structures, the the sort of ebbs and flows of the dating game.
00:09:34
Speaker
I think most of them are fortunately toast. And that's very problematic because what is more dangerous than lonely younger man or even older man, but specifically younger man who has no purpose and no passion in their life?
00:09:49
Speaker
And I think without that, we're we're blaming people for not for being crazy, but we don't give them the tools to channel their energy in healthy and constructive ways. I think that's right. I mean, if if we are, you know, students of history know that like periods in time when you have a large population of directionless young men, ah that often leads to big dangerous stuff. I agree.
00:10:12
Speaker
I agree with that very much. I wanted to get on this idea of things being flat, this like competitive aspect to it. um ah Because that resonates, right? i think I think a lot of men, and I think some women, but I think were mostly men have the experience where um they get on a dating app or even out in the real world, but they often just feel overlooked. They feel like they make a bid for attention, whether it's making an app or making an app profile and sending a like or getting on Instagram and like sending someone a DM or something like that.
00:10:41
Speaker
And you just you there's this feeling after a while that like, you know, you have like a 1% hit rate or something, right? Like you really have to take a lot of swings to actually even just get someone's attention on the internet. And and I think, I think also it feels that way in real life. But but I do really think that the internet um highlights that and I've got a few years on you. I'm 47. So I remember doing this. but Oh, wow, man, you look exceptionally young. Wow. I thought you were barely 30.
00:11:06
Speaker
James, good for you. Good for But <unk>m I'm an old man trying to trying to find a way to
Authenticity and Evolutionary Psychology in Attraction
00:11:11
Speaker
repackage my you know trauma as advice, right? um but But you're very kind, thank you. but i guess i do I do feel and I hear this this ah competitive aspect where I think, and again, I think it's ah mostly men, mostly young men. And then i don't want to exclude anybody. i do think some young some women have this ah issue as well.
00:11:33
Speaker
um But well we'll we'll get into it that in a second. But right like like this this idea that... like I think especially the dating apps are set up in a way to maybe even the Internet is set up in a way to kind of make you feel like no one is interested in you unless you're like the one percent or something. Right. um does that Does that resonate? Am I am i am i off base? is that Is that kind of in line with this sort of competitive? Because I'm i'm hearing in what you're saying, like,
00:12:01
Speaker
You have to find a way to rise above. You have to find a way to be um to to kind of show up on the radar of someone who you might romantically connect with. Yeah, how you're close. And I would just say if you if you don't want to do that, that's fine.
00:12:15
Speaker
But it's like saying, hey, I'm going to go outside when it's raining and I don't want to get wet. yeah That's honestly, I mean, it's a really, i don't even know if it's a brutal reality. It's such a, I find it a privilege, an honor, a blessing when we can actually see reality.
00:12:29
Speaker
And of course, reality is subject, perspective, things like this. But from the way that I see it, it's let's try to analyze the pieces on the chessboard and see what actually actually resonates.
00:12:40
Speaker
So this is why for me, a really big subject matter mine that i'm very um so fascinated by that it's sometimes it's a little challenging to dive into is evolutionary psychology, which is basically the study of how our evolution affects our psychology and specifically within this realm of how we look into dating and mating.
00:12:59
Speaker
And I don't think it's necessarily definitive. ah However, I think there's a lot to learn from it. And I think what we fail to learn, it's, you know, a lot of guys that I've unfortunately spoken with and even women, they're like, you know, did it go? Oh, yeah. A guy would come up to me and say, man, Bruce, I don't get it. You know, I did everything. I gave her everything.
00:13:20
Speaker
And I go, wow, that's awesome. But guess what? You gave her everything except for what she needed. And we follow the playbook. you know we We're watching um The Mask right now, and it's with Jim Carrey, and he's falling love with Cameron Diaz, and he's kind of soft. and Classic movie.
00:13:38
Speaker
Classic movie, and he's like the nice guy, which is good. But again, you know women may like the nice guy, but they want the good guy. The good guy. There's a very big difference. right one The first one, the former compromises his value in order to meet the needs of others.
00:13:51
Speaker
But the second one remains firm in his values, even though may upset others because it's truly what he firmly believes. Because it also makes a woman in his life feel very safe. And the people that he's around feel safe.
00:14:03
Speaker
Oh, wait, Scott, you have conviction about something? Okay, you've looked into it? Okay, you've actually gone through the trials and tribulations? and okay we're going to Okay, cool. But if if I'm like, oh, Scott, all everything you just said, it's weird, nonsense. And if you want to hang out with me, you got to change your opinion. And then you go, okay, sure, no problem.
00:14:18
Speaker
Man, I can't even, I had just lost all respect for it. And it's very difficult in that realm, right? Sure. So it's to get to the the Christ at that point, If we don't know the the sort of the psychology of, I'll say male and female, just to make it very ah scientific, we fail to recognize that there are some fundamental differences that make each sex attracted in different ways.
00:14:45
Speaker
Because what resonate what makes the general a male attracted to a female is not going to necessarily translate in the exact opposite form. Okay. And is, okay. So I, I, there's a lot in there that I'm interested in. I do have to put my cards on the table a little bit in general. I'm a little bit skeptical of evolution, evolutionary psychology. It's okay. However, okay i'm I'm not hearing you say anything. That's like, uh, yeah, that I'm too, sorry. Well, not yet. Not yet. Give it a few minutes. No, good. Yeah. Yeah. yeah we We might find something to disagree about. That's good. That's still good.
00:15:13
Speaker
um ah Okay, so this... this um i want I want to reflect back to you something I hear in um ah this process of like holding to your convictions, um because I admire that a lot. and And I hear that coming from a place of like you know be yourself, be proud of yourself, do the work.
00:15:32
Speaker
um And I like that a lot. I think... and And tell me what you think about this. The lens I see that through Because I would say my experience is the same. I would say my experience is I have much more success in um romantic connection and even platonic connection, like connection with friends, when I just like let people see who I really am. um And through one lens, I think I could say that's me having the courage of my convictions. And through another lens, I think sometimes I see that through a lens of vulnerability.
00:16:01
Speaker
Like I'm saying to someone, hey, this and this is what I'm really into. I super love Dungeons and Dragons and this particular cartoon or or whatever it is that I'm really into, right? Or whatever thing I'm into, right? I have a dating podcast, right? I'm really passionate about talking to folks about about dating. And I think sometimes my experience with that is more about like,
00:16:20
Speaker
having the vulnerability to show someone something that like I, you know, some part of myself, I might be ashamed of because there's some part of myself that's like, oh, no, they're gonna, they're gonna judge me for this, or they're not gonna think that I'm cool or whatever, you know, but in my experience, what happens when I show someone my true self, one of two things happens, right?
00:16:40
Speaker
They either don't like me, and they're like, oh, okay, well, that's not really my jam, I'm gonna go over here, you know, or honestly, more often
Attraction Archetypes and Multidimensional Men
00:16:48
Speaker
than not, what happens is they go, oh, wow, Maybe that's not exactly what they're into, maybe it is, but like they see the real me.
00:16:55
Speaker
And I think people are very, very good. We have very good like pardon my French bullshit detectors, right? Right. I think that's true. I think human beings have evolved to have really good like for the most part lie detectors, right? And I think i think that i think that in my mind, and this has been a part of my journey, and part of what I've worked on is like just bringing my real self to any kind of connection, just bringing my real self to to a date or to you know a potential romantic connection, right? And in in in doing that, I find out, you know what yeah if she doesn't like me, at least I know she doesn't like the real me, you know because if she does like me and I'm faking it, I'm putting on some kind of mask, um then you know she's interested in somebody that doesn't really exist, right? like I think a for me, a core part of this process
00:17:43
Speaker
and And I think something that we all need, and I i don't know. i I guess I should say it's something that I think I need. And it's like to be seen, to really feel like I'm showing someone my true self and to have that person see me and say like, yeah, you know what? I can hang with this person.
00:18:00
Speaker
and and ah and And it's a long way of saying like, I think, i wonder if that resonates for you or or does it does that sound like a valid alternate lens to the approach of like having the courage of your convictions and ensuring that you are um Because cause I hear what you're saying, and and I do think that succeeds with people in general, and of course with with you know women, if you're interested in women, right? um Like really having being somebody who like brings yourself to the table.
00:18:27
Speaker
Does that make sense at all? Yeah, sounds more complimentary, if anything. I think the idea is, yeah if you yeah, if you pretend to be someone at the beginning, you're going to continue pretending to be that person throughout, because otherwise the validation and acceptance you got in the beginning is going to pivot later on when you deviate from that set of behavior.
00:18:44
Speaker
That is very true. one One way to add to it is, being from my perspective, is when we are ourselves, yeah I would even ask, who is Scott?
00:18:56
Speaker
Scott is a person right now in the evening versus in the morning. And then I wouldn't say you're being deceptive in the morning versus in the evening. I would say certain fluctuations occur. Identities are malleable.
00:19:07
Speaker
you know I think there's a really good quote. I'm probably going to butcher it, but it's by Frank What's his name? Frank Kafka, Franz Kafka or something. And he says, Kafka, he goes, I saw it. goes, I can't believe I got to the end of my life and realized that everyone was everyone showed up with masks. Right. And I forgot that it was just one big party.
00:19:24
Speaker
So I think the idea, and you know we're all playing multiple roles, multiple identities. And I think one of the things, and actually this will resonate because I think you'll find it interesting given we're in LA. I ask people now because i've i'm I'm researching this so much, or these general subjects, but I'll ask people, I go, let me ask you a question.
00:19:42
Speaker
you Do you find Leonardo DiCaprio attractive? And they go, oh, yeah, oh my God. Oof, yeah, he's oh he's amazing. Really? So do you know what he's like? No, I have no idea, but he's awesome. Wait, so you actually have no idea what he's actually like as a human being, but you love him?
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, really do. And then I'm thinking, okay, why does this person like him so much? And then I start to think, wait a second. Do you like the guy who was a con artist on Wall Street?
00:20:06
Speaker
Oh, wait, no, maybe you like the guy who saved Rose from dying on the Titanic. Oh, no, no, but maybe you actually like the guy who was on Long Island who had the affair on this. So what I began to realize is that people, you know one of the archetypes, the five archetypes that I share that is what resonates with women specifically is the archetype of the artist.
00:20:27
Speaker
And when you're multidimensional, that's what, really attracts and compels people to your side, to your cause, to be interested. And I think limiting ourself and how I see it, I see it as a limit that, yeah, I'm Bruce, but I could, you know, I have no obligation. And Alan Watts said this. Alan Watts says you have no obligation to be who you were five minutes ago.
00:20:48
Speaker
It could be totally anyone different. And it's a further expansion. So I think in a sense, yeah, you don't want to show up in the sense of pretending to be this sort of macho guy if that's not who you are or it to be this sweet, soft, sensitive dude if that's not who you really are. I'm not saying that.
00:21:01
Speaker
What I would say is there's a multidimensional capacity to it and also there's a sequence. So in the same way that if you meet a girl, you're not going to say, hey, you're beautiful. Do you like pasta? Me too. oh Let's get married and I want to have kids. And here's my deepest, darkest secret.
00:21:16
Speaker
um That's insane. that is and it's just like And if that person says, oh, wait, but you should just love me for who I am, I'd love to. But I'm also a human and i have certain biases and certain ways that I look at things that I want to.
00:21:29
Speaker
But look, I'm not that mature enough or I'm maybe not as open-minded, but let's see how the flow goes. baby you know ed Attraction works very differently for men and for women, by the way.
00:21:40
Speaker
This is something that people know, but they they they tend to miss. i'm I'm interested in that. I mean, I, uh, okay. I mean, i like I, I, well, okay, let's let's get into the men, women thing. I think that's interesting. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I'll just add to that part. Like attraction is much quicker for a man. Uh, and it it can actually foster and develop over time. Right. I mean, they have scientific studies behind this, not even evolutionary psychology, right? Just that the, the,
00:22:07
Speaker
So let's even make it more clear. What attracts men towards women and what attracts women towards men, right? There are overlapping qualities, right? Such as kindness, loyalty, ah fidelity is also important, um a good sense of community that you're one that can communicate with others. like These are common traits, but there are so there're certain premiums that are placed on one versus then the other. Okay. Okay.
00:22:31
Speaker
And I think that's where you know we can really go into that part. um But there is a through line, of course, to want the humanity of someone that you want to connect with. But typically, from my experience, and this is how I do my coaching and just how I've learned through my experience, is while women do want a very kind, soft, attentive, vulnerable, generous dude, yes, they do.
00:22:54
Speaker
But the issue with that is those kind of men exist all around. okay right But that doesn't necessarily translate and correlate to attraction. So and for my my my work, women want those qualities from men after they're already attracted because the attraction is what's the filter to them that those other qualities come in.
00:23:12
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So what is the, what I would, I'm interested here. I mean, I i think for for men in the audience, right, we all want to know like what are women attracted to? What's your, what's your kind of take? Or do you have like ah you you mentioned five archetypes earlier, but do you have like an approach on that? Yeah. Or is it yeah is it, yeah. That's, yeah. I mean, it's funny. I have all these books, that have all this stuff.
00:23:32
Speaker
um But, and I like to condense it because we talked about models off the call or acronyms. ah The five archetypes would be as follows. a First, you have the the Clark Kent.
00:23:45
Speaker
But Clark Kent, it's sort of that kind of nerdy, sort of intelligent, sort of like focused and has pretty studious, right? it's a It's a cue for intelligence, right? The ability to practice a level of discernment ah with rigor and wanting to learn things, right? Okay, okay then Then you have the James Bond archetype.
00:24:05
Speaker
right which is kind of suave, cool, ah kind like kind of like unapologetically masculine, opens the car door for you, is chivalrous, without compromising and making you feel like you're not like a lady. right So there are different ah different angles of it.
00:24:20
Speaker
Then you have the surfer, right? The athletic aesthetic, the one who's nature oriented, the one who ah takes care of their health, the one who likes to surf or go for runs or to go for hikes or to do things that has a connection to Mother Earth, right? Gaia, that's what people may call it Sure. Next, you have the artist. The the artist who is able to, doesn't have to be a musician or an actor, could be a chef, could be a speaker, could be a podcast host, someone who is tapped into the creative element of their nature, of of their own psyche, and can sort of tap into that part of themselves that transcends the sort of material world that we exist in.
00:24:59
Speaker
but without getting too l LA better. you have those four. And then the last is sort of the local celebrity, right? It's very rare that a woman is attracted to a man who operates and exists absolutely in isolation.
00:25:11
Speaker
Because when you're existing in isolation, it actually doesn't help to... send any signals to the woman that you're a safe partner, that you can ah communicate with other people, that you are the ability they have the ability to lead others.
00:25:25
Speaker
And what if you go what if you you and her get together and then you turn out to be kind of nuts? Then that puts her in a dangerous position because there's no one who can maybe hold you accountable, right? So these are five basic archetypes that really tap into different components of who we are.
00:25:39
Speaker
And I think about you know a girlfriend I had as well where Before even learning about this, I realized I had done all of that on the first date, and it went exceptionally well.
00:25:52
Speaker
Because I think what guys are missing is, hey, I'm just the artist. I mean, look, you have these musicians. They're just a musician. Okay, but maybe they're out of shape. Maybe they're very, they're kind of just, none of their masculine, if that's where their home is essentially going to be.
00:26:06
Speaker
They're not really chivalrous. They're kind of more so all focused on themselves. So they have they're they're an artist and they're a local celebrity, but they're missing a few of the archetypes. So my thing is, ah ah as long as you get at least three of those archetypes, you have a really strong base to build out it Okay. Okay. So these are archetypes that you that that you ah that men ought to try and embody.
00:26:27
Speaker
And you want you want at least three of these? I think if you get three, you put yourself in a position where you're already in a majority and it shows you as being multidimensional. Women love multidimensional because it it gives them a wider experience and array of life, right? the Think about it. The guy who who's a I mean, the guy who's a really successful, let's just say, don't know,
00:26:50
Speaker
He owns his own company, whatever. Okay. But has no artistic taste, is a total jerk. He's ripped and James Bond-like, but he's kind of clueless. It's just you're missing it, right? like Women want the whole package. Women want a guy who, even if you're not at the finish line, they want to see signals that, hey, Scott, yeah, Scott's ambitious. Doesn't need to be a millionaire, but he's trying to improve himself.
00:27:12
Speaker
I can see a future with him. he is He's well-read. He's educated. He cares about his health. he People look up to him. I mean, It's hard to get all of these attributes, but if
Gender Roles and Dating Challenges
00:27:23
Speaker
you just work on yourself, you make yourself more valuable just in general as a contributor society and also more attractive partner that women think, okay, yeah, Scott's doing awesome. Like, yeah, he's pretty cool.
00:27:35
Speaker
He's not just this one-layered guy. He's got a lot of stuff to him that is pretty sweet. Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me. I want i want to kind of ah i dont I don't want to reframe that, but I kind of want to pivot into, i do want to talk about like what it is to be a man, right? Because I think that's really core to a lot of the questions in dating. Because I think when a lot of men approach dating, I think i think asking yourself the question, how do I be a good man?
00:28:00
Speaker
When you're approaching dating, that's one of the times when that question really crystallizes and becomes sharp and like you really have to like, okay, i need to figure this out. When I'm when I'm chilling my friends, when I'm doing my own thing, like, maybe also there, I mean, definitely also there, right? I think we, peer to peer we support we enforce and all all kinds of stuff about what kind of person you are, are you a good man, yada, yada, yada. But like, I do think with dating, it's really a high pressure or can be a high pressure environment where it's like, okay, I need to like,
00:28:28
Speaker
sort of like figure out who I am. Or I think it's something that can push you to figure out who you are. Does that make sense? Absolutely. um So so i'm deeply I'm deeply interested in that question of of what it is has being a man. What I would say about like the five archetypes, this kind of, to me, okay, one of the things that i think is really tricky about modern dating, and this kind of points generally at this for me, I think, i think And these are broad generalizations, but this is kind of my hot take.
00:28:54
Speaker
I think as a society, we value women when they're attractive. And attractiveness is often a proxy for youth. Like oftentimes to be attractive, you need to be young because we've just decided that that's what what attraction, what is attractive in women, right? And then for men, we ah i think we value men when they are successful.
00:29:13
Speaker
And I hear in these five archetypes different like sort of categories of success. um And and um' maybe this is just kind of a reframe or maybe I'm misunderstanding. But like I think in general, we see... i mean, you know all else being equal, we like somebody who's attractive, we like somebody who's funny, we like somebody who's smart. I think i think we like those in men and women the same. But I think where really gets different is...
00:29:34
Speaker
youth and beauty and success, right? Like I think women who are very, very successful, I don't think they find themselves with many more dating prospects. And in fact, sometimes I think they kind of find themselves frustrated by a lack of dating prospects. Women become very, very successful in in whatever, um you know, whatever whatever arena they find success. And then i think for men, um i think i think youth and beauty kind of doesn't doesn't do what it does for women, right?
00:30:04
Speaker
um Which I think can be, I'm old, I don't understand, but i my understanding is that that can be a very frustrating thing for for young men. i think we see I think we see a lot of age gap dating, right? And usually that's women dating older men.
00:30:19
Speaker
um And so I guess part a is there anything in that kind of ah philosophy or in that in that worldview that that you would pressure test that you think you see differently? Definitely interested in that. But then part B, and if if if we're and if we're kind of close in worldview there, which I think we kind of are, um what is it to be a good man? Like how how how should men go about...
00:30:45
Speaker
um uh, yeah, being a good man. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, these are great questions. Uh, probably we have to tackle the first one, uh, with ah one component of what you said about the humor element, where again, I mean, they have studies on this cross-cultural, i mean, the largest study on, uh, which was an evolutionary psychology study was 37 different countries, uh, 10,054 participants, replicated meta studies, uh, and something that gets derived from it, uh,
00:31:16
Speaker
with, but it was about humor, right? Where humor is very different for men and women on average, right? you had to say, you know, it's it's so funny if I, someone was saying this to me of, oh, but you can't say all of them are like this.
00:31:28
Speaker
Of course, there's exceptions to everything. But if Scott, if I say, hey, Scott, the sky is blue. And then you go, oh oh, but Bruce, but sometimes the sky is orange and also red. And sometimes, of course. But if we do that, we're never going to have a conversation because all the, like, it's tough to get every single component while still being cautious and not overly generalized all of the time, right? So it's it's a tricky balance. But for sake of time and for kind of being concise, the sky is blue, right? That's what I'm going to model from that. sure um So with regard to humor, you know,
00:31:58
Speaker
ah Women want a guy that is funny. And this is, again, averages or generalization. now Women prefer a guy that i they can laugh at his, or prefer a guy that is funny. And men prefer ah women who are more likely to laugh at their jokes. Right?
00:32:15
Speaker
I see you laugh. So that's the there's a lot of truth to do these things. And when we go back to the element of um about the the young and for women and the older thing. So I was in New York while ago and I remember I met someone that was, mean, I truly thought they were in their mid to late forties and they go, no, I'm like 28 or something, 32, whatever it said, what?
00:32:41
Speaker
i said what Totally. And I've seen guys in the same way, right? But youth youth is not necessarily correlated with beauty in that sense. But I think at a really deep level, reasons that, like let's let's actually just explore it logically, right? But also from an emotional standpoint.
00:32:57
Speaker
I think we get two things conflated. We get conflated your worth as a human being And you're worth, let's say, at this specific time in the dating sort of domain, right?
00:33:09
Speaker
You know, my mom, she's almost 60. And I would say on average, you know, while I'm sure that 21, 22-year-old man might fall in love with her, it is not as likely that that is going to occur, right? Because there's different base of fundamental attractions that they'll towards the other.
00:33:26
Speaker
And I think when we, I think we actually do people, in my opinion, from the work I've done, we do a disservice when we try to tell people, ah you know, there shouldn't be a premium. I'm like, you're, the value of putting on emphasis on beauty and all this stuff, like, it's not right. You shouldn't be doing that.
00:33:42
Speaker
Or we'd say, oh, like to guys, no, no, it's okay. Like, you don't need to work hard. you don't need to but how does that make any sense? Like, Scott, think about this. Yeah. So if you're telling me, right, that,
00:33:53
Speaker
if if And I've actually noticed this throughout my own life, but if I work on myself, if I work on my health, if I work on my community, if I work on my leadership abilities, if I work on my sense of humor, I work on my emotional intelligence, my mental health, my spirituality, if i work consistently, diligently on improving myself,
00:34:10
Speaker
How is it that by me doing all those things and another ah another guy who sits in his ah parents' basement, plays video games, is overweight, is rude, just is not taking care of himself, isn't doing well.
00:34:23
Speaker
How is it that I could go up to a woman and say, hey, it shouldn't matter where he's at. He should still have the same level playing field that I would have. i I don't know if that makes any sense. Right? I mean, I i don't think it does. And that's definitely not what I'm thinking. No, i must I'm not saying that's what you're saying. it should In general, I think just from the the the youth and the beauty with the women and then the success with older guys, there's overarching patterns. While it shouldn't be deterministic, I think it helps us to just see patterns that can influence positively how we navigate that scene.
00:34:53
Speaker
I understand that. And I would say to go a step further with the patterns thing, and I what you're saying about broad generalizations. Totally heard. Of course. There's always exception. Yeah. Yeah. ah You know, but one one thing with, especially for modern dating, one thing about the the big generalizations, like if we if we can ballpark that, like, I don't know,
00:35:14
Speaker
51% of people value 51% of straight men value youth in a partner and blah, blah, blah, some percent of women value success in a whatever, as as long as as long as there's a large enough number of people doing that, because so much of modern society has like been ah taken online, whether it's social media or dating apps. um you know, there there is this, I guess, like that flattening thing you were talking about earlier, right there, there is this, um
00:35:45
Speaker
you know, i think, I think, I think the, the aggregation of these preferences ah becomes becomes clear, it becomes like a tide that you have to swim against if you are not the thing that people prefer, right? Like if you are a woman who looks much older than her age, for example, I think I would, I would guess that that is more challenging as somebody trying to find love in the age of social media than it was before.
00:36:14
Speaker
Total shot. A hundred percent. No, no, I'll tell you this. I mean, my partner's older than me, right? And i mean, we met on the beach. It was off social media. It was very natural, very good flow. But there's also, yeah like you're totally right in that sense because what it aggregates, right? Aggregates sort of ah these these baseline interests they patterns that we may say.
00:36:34
Speaker
So there are things that you can do that it's like this. Imagine if I were to tell you, okay Scott, there's your dream girl. She's everything you want from head to toe, inside her heart, inside her mind, everything. Perfect.
00:36:48
Speaker
But she's a few years older than you would prefer. Yeah. you're not You're probably not going to say no, right? And then if you ask most women and you're like, okay, look, this guy's Prince Charming. He's so funny, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he's not. He's five foot seven.
00:37:02
Speaker
Wait, wait, but he's super but but he's super funny, super smart, charismatic, charming. all So yeah, we we don't choose people off of one sole criteria.
Personal Development and Relationship Success
00:37:11
Speaker
it's I call it a bundle of six.
00:37:13
Speaker
However, its ah we it doesn't make sense to disregard it. um But of course, like you're saying, like if we don't put out the main, if you're a woman who's a little bit older, okay, so what does that mean?
00:37:23
Speaker
So in general, it's like, okay, Are you a compliment to a guy's life? Not that you need to change your life, but do you help a guy? do you compliment his life in the way that you hope he would compliment yours? That's a pretty fair bargain. Are you showing up if he's mainly masculine? Are you showing up in your feminine?
00:37:38
Speaker
That's a fair ask. Are you taking care of yourself, your health, your nutrition? Are you being playful, soft, feminine, sweet? Those are things that you can control. You can't control the clock, but you can control your your attitude. And for the guy who's maybe not, you know, whatever it is, successful in whatever society terms it, do you take care of your health?
00:37:55
Speaker
Do you, are you, and this is the craziest thing. Some of the guys that are actually so successful women, are actually the guys that work ah jobs that are more correlated with leadership roles or risk taking.
00:38:09
Speaker
For example, I would much rather respect the firefighter or the police officer than crypto a multimillionaire who's 22 sitting in his mom's basement trading. right sure And most women, they they like the money, of course.
00:38:23
Speaker
because it's a lifestyle, but they're going to long-term respect the guy who has demonstrated qualities of masculinity. The best way to counteract all these prevailing societal, and I don't want to say narratives because think they are true. I think they do matter. But the best way to navigate that truly is to triple down on your natural core energy and create an ecosystem that makes your life a magnet to the kind of partner that would resonate with the kind of values and vision you have for your life.
00:38:51
Speaker
Otherwise, i don't know how you would succeed. Okay. I mean, that all sounds good to me. I think... ah but ah let Let me kind of... I don't think we're too far apart. I think, like, my approach on this stuff, basically, is like...
00:39:06
Speaker
work on yourself, you know, ah do do some deep deep digging. For me anyway, that was like therapy. I think frankly, most of us need therapy. Like the world is basically designed to damage our mental health. I argue. 100%. There's no argument there. That's okay. Fair. it's Right. But like know yourself, get gets to know who you are.
00:39:28
Speaker
have a conversation with yourself so you can understand what is it that I'm really looking for. um and yeah and, you know, and as you live life, as you get relationships, you'll learn sort of ah like what you're looking for in a partner. Like you want to know, you want to know yourself, right?
00:39:41
Speaker
Can i ask you this? How many people, how many people do you know have a vision for their life or know what their values are? How many people do you know are like that over percentage wise in general, who have a vision for their life, who glad who have a vision for their life or at least know where they want to go.
00:39:57
Speaker
And they understand what their actual values are, not what society or their family has pushed them. Percentage of people that you know, maybe we're in different circles. i don't know. But what would you say that percentage? ah
00:40:11
Speaker
That's tricky. ah vision life And the people who have the values, the people who they don't compromise their values because of the approval and need of others. That's right.
00:40:24
Speaker
Uh, I mean, i think that's tricky one, man, because I think most of the people who i call my friends and most of the circles I've, I've, I've kind of, I've gone out of my way to be selective with who I kind of give my time to. So I think I have selected people whose values align with mine. And i would say, because I've done that, i think most of the folks in my life do know their values and do, yeah I think live by those values. Um,
00:40:53
Speaker
If that's an answer to that question. and That's a big question. It is. So where are you going? huge. that The thing I'd say is we got to be very careful living in West LA because like every sort, every subculture, I would say exists in a sort of, uh,
00:41:08
Speaker
area that may not be representative of the populace at large. Right. So even as like myself spending time and even if you have values, do you really know why you have those values? So when I lived in Morocco, when I lived in Israel, and you know, in a predominantly a Muslim culture, predominantly Jewish culture here the States, people are like, yeah, I believe this.
00:41:26
Speaker
Well, why do you believe it? Oh, because I was raised that way. And this book taught me. And know because ah so, you know, what are you talking about? Right. So it's it's always a caution for me in the sense of that's a beautiful thing. I think we need more people like you and your your group that have vision values clear.
00:41:42
Speaker
I think, unfortunately, the majority don't have that because, you know, people would tell me, are you dating someone? They would ask me. I said, you know, even when I wasn't, I said, yeah, I'm dating someone.
00:41:53
Speaker
Really? Who are you dating? Oh, man, this person's amazing. Really? Who are they? Well, let me tell you about them first. They're intelligent. They're they're charming. They're funny. They're kind. They're adventurous. A little wild. But the Bruce, just tell me, what's their name? like Who are they?
00:42:07
Speaker
I said, do you really want to know? They said, yes. I'm fine. Myself. go so That's the bottom line. be you know go go out to the Go for a hike. I mean, hikes are a little dangerous, but go do something in nature by yourself. Go to the movies by yourself. Go to restaurant by yourself.
00:42:21
Speaker
Because when you know we don't have to be complete, full human beings. But if you're operating already in a deficit as to your natural baseline state, for me, yeah i think it's putting a massive...
00:42:34
Speaker
although it may look like a blessing, it's putting a burden on someone who may have such capacity for love that in their capacity abundance of love, that they're going to be trying to pull you up so much from where you're sinking.
00:42:46
Speaker
And while I think that's a beautiful, altruistic, noble thing, I think we need to be a little more ah we need become more active of like, okay, where did I mess up? Like, it's not fair for me to put the burdens and the challenges in my life. If someone wants to do that, that's their prerogative.
00:43:01
Speaker
And me and you, we're not perfect either. We make plenty of mistakes. But why don't we at least show up and say, okay, you know what? Yeah, I messed up here, there, everywhere, up, down, left, right. But I'm trying here. I'm getting there. Okay, cool. And then we build.
00:43:13
Speaker
I think if people don't have that, there's no future. I hear you. what And if what I'm what I'm what I think I'm hearing you say is, and I think a lot of men, this is a this is ah a relevant thing. You don't want to you don't want to you don't want to try and find a partner who's going to kind of pull you out from a hole. You to find a partner who's going to try to like fix you. Yeah, you want to know yourself. You want to do the work.
00:43:34
Speaker
I think I would I would say that like, you know, be somebody who I would say, be somebody who knows the shape of your own puzzle piece. So you can go looking for somebody else's puzzle piece who fits like pretty darn good with yours. Nobody's gonna be perfect, right?
00:43:48
Speaker
um i i do think I do think it's fair to say that, and then this kind of gets into what it is to be a man and modern dating. i do think, at least in the West, I want to say a generation ago, i don't know how many decades, but I would say ballpark a generation ago and earlier,
00:44:02
Speaker
um It was kind of the dichotomy of roles in straight relationships where the men would sort of rely on the women for emotional well-being, maybe spiritual well-being. I would argue community. She would do most of the friends scheduling, that kind of thing. And his job was, you know, hold down a job, be able to pay the mortgage, put food on the table. And that ah i i and that that's a gross generalization, of course, but I think that general like approach to what I would call traditional Western partnership um you know still has echoes today. Of course it does. And those are a lot of the templates that we have for pursuing a relationship. But I think in that model, right you do have a man who thinks like, if I follow the rules, I'm um a standup guy,
00:44:45
Speaker
and and work hard, you know, life should provide for me. The other pieces of the puzzle should come together for me. And I think in modern dating, I think that's less and less true, right? I think women want somebody who is able to, who has done their kind of emotional homework and is ready to like bring themselves to a connection. Does that make sense?
00:45:04
Speaker
It does make sense. And it sort of brings up a theory that I came up with maybe about eight months ago maybe six, eight months ago, but what, because you were talking about like this, these structures from this economy of a relationship from maybe a generation ago. And, you know, I think there's, I mean, even if you look at before, let's say marriage was created where it was more communal living and then no one knew, You didn't necessarily know who the the child's father or or the the parents ah the father of the child, so it was communal raising of the child. right so There are different frameworks and models for how we co-create a culture and a society.
00:45:39
Speaker
I think one of the challenges that we're having now is, one, you know the point of the man being the general breadwinner and then the woman being more like the emotional, organized or stuff. you know Well, yeah, there's downsides of that, of course. I think there are some upsides, but you even out of that sort of binary,
00:45:56
Speaker
What happened now is that we basically lost the community feel. right So the reason I think that evolution is so important in the psychology, not to just say that people have value or they don't, you know the same reason why we want to help people understand their addiction or their cravings for sugar is because on the Savannah, whenever we found sugar was such a scarce resource that we always we try to seek it out in abundance.
00:46:18
Speaker
So that psychology now affects us all today. Now, why does that matter? right In more hunter-gatherers tribe, even throughout the Middle Ages, even throughout the Renaissance, you had more of a community-organized feel, right? Where typically, and it's very healthy, is for women to have a strong amount of time with other women and for men to have strong amount of time with other men. Of course, I'm speaking within a heteronormative dynamic.
00:46:40
Speaker
So by doing this, you actually come back to the home, especially where you may have children, with An energy that you're able to pour more into the other, right? Because the energy, like the masculine feminine, they'll come together and they'll co-create.
00:46:52
Speaker
But if you're coming in with the deficit as a guy and you try to show up to the feminine with your deficit, it's too much of a responsibility you put on the feminine to then fill up your cup when instead you should be with your brothers and I'm a leader, a group of men that can help facilitate that dynamic and vice versa with women, right? A lot of women, you know, I always tell guys or I tell girls that I've worked with women, I say, look, they go, oh, I have, I only have guy friends.
00:47:15
Speaker
And for me, that is a massive, massive problem. Massive, massive guys. Oh, I only have a woman who you're interested in to have only guy friends. for god definite onlyly got friends If a woman, if a woman only has guy friends, that's a problem.
00:47:29
Speaker
If a guy only has girlfriends, that's also a problem.
Community, Friendships, and Vulnerability
00:47:32
Speaker
Because what is it saying? yeah It's like, unfortunately, and I think if maybe what, like, know if you have kids or anything in your life or just like net nieces, whatever it is, nephews, like it's, it's really critical to be around an environment or to be with people of, and especially i was talking a heterosexual dynamic where,
00:47:51
Speaker
you You can have a relationship where the person has zero desire to pursue or actually cultivate anything necessarily romantic. i think it does, unfortunately, blur the lines of what's going to happen with how that person develops their psyche.
00:48:06
Speaker
So when a girl says, i only have guy friends. Well, why don't you have any girlfriends? Oh, I just thought to get along with women. What? But like, okay, I have two sisters. They're not getting along with my sisters.
00:48:16
Speaker
No, no, that's different. Why is that different? do you have any sisters? No. Are you close with any women in your life? No, I'm not close with any women. So I want to believe you, but there's no evidence for me to say like, I know you care about me, but I would like to know from experience, are you able to get along with other women?
00:48:33
Speaker
Because now I'm bringing you into my environment and the women in my life that I really care about, I want them to connect with you as well. And I don't want to put it on them that they had so it goes both ways, right? um I think i just so that I know with the guys, I think guys, why it's important to have other men as friends is because, you know, um especially like in the workplace, but how how it connects is that,
00:48:56
Speaker
one of the ways that men tend to connect with other guys is sort of like, kind of like that, that playful battle testing, right? Kind of not like I'm aggressive, not I think you're worse. Like I played sports. I have two older to brothers. Like, yeah, of course the the teasing can get too far. I get it. Like, you know, there's both. I totally get that.
00:49:14
Speaker
But it's also a sense of like, hey, but we're being playful with you. like We're having this playful dynamic. And if a guy... And just ask women in your life as well. And I'm sure they'll attest to me. If their partner has had any guy friends, if they think that's awesome, neutral, or not so good.
00:49:30
Speaker
I would literally bet all my money and my like everything I have that they would say that's not a good sign. Sure. I mean, I think... ah i mean Interesting. I guess...
00:49:43
Speaker
The way I might frame that is is a little less to the extreme, but like i think most people ought to have of variety of of our a variety of friends. You ought to have diversity in your friend group. You know That's awesome, but just not one, right? Just like have have a have a diversity.
00:49:59
Speaker
yeah But if you have none of either, that's a problem. no yeah none of yeah Yeah, I think, yeah, it would, it would, it would, I'm trying to think, i'm but say, I'm not sure that I've ever met anyone.
00:50:10
Speaker
i can't, know I don't know that I can speak to this of through actual experience. i don't know if I've ever anybody has only friends of, you know, uh, one gender, or the other. Um, ah But yeah okay, I mean, i think i think i think I think it's fair to say that like, well, to to putton take a little bit of a turn here, I do think for men that we, and you you talk about these kind of like the competitive, like the play relationships we have. um i've I've heard it said that like women ah women connect face to face and men connect shoulder shoulder.
00:50:43
Speaker
Men like to yeah that's good let's good we like to do things together and women like to like connect each other. And I mean, I i will say that like I i'm i'm like both. And I think I encourage my guy friends to like have those have have connections that are face-to-face. you know like face- offace Face-to-face subconcious or primally and subconsciously actually can indicate a sense of potential threat.
00:51:08
Speaker
right where you know I've traveled the world, as I'm sure you've gone places as well. Certain communities, I swear to you, they go, what are you doing looking at that guy straight in the eye in this face? I'm like, of course it's a stranger and it's different when it's with a close friend. But just from that perspective, like and i've I've done this as well when I was working with guys you know to teach me how to like do an approach and speak with a lady. like yeah If I was there with you and you in the room you're at, and if you're like 10 feet away and I just look at you and I just walk beeline straight to you,
00:51:36
Speaker
Yeah. The body feels confronted. Okay. But I mean, right. But if I, if I come in from the side and it's a playful, Hey Scott, let me ask you a question. It's like, it's just less of a threat in that sense.
00:51:49
Speaker
women are very good with that connection. They're very good, much better than men are. And we need to improve for sure. Okay. Sure. like Okay. Like the, but the that like the body language of, of big being confrontation, thing aside, i don't know. I would say like,
00:52:01
Speaker
yeah you know In Santa Monica in general, ah well, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because we do, we have all this body language with these cues. like we we We are trained. We understand what it is to be men, right? We know sort of how to be like when you're at a bar having a beer with somebody, like there is a certain way that you hold yourself, that you conduct yourself. You know what I mean? like i Yes.
00:52:22
Speaker
but i I think the sort of like sort of like the more... I want to say less less literal, more like sort of ah figurative approach of like like the side to side versus face to face, right? um right Because like I think I think as men, it's it's much more comfortable to not talk about the thing. I think i think with men in general, ah we have a tougher time um kind of being vulnerable and just like putting words on the thing that is wrong or or expressing an emotion or expressing weakness or expressing um something that's making us feel vulnerable where I think women
00:53:02
Speaker
when I say face to face, like they're the subject of what they're talking about is each other. Like they are looking at each other and saying like, Hey, how are you? How am I? Let's connect men. Look at the thing. You know, we look at the football game or video game or, um, the women at the bar. Like, you know, we look at things together and we, uh, I think are socialized to sort of connect, uh, in that way. And I don't want to judge either one. I want to ask you a question about that. Go ahead. Yeah. No, that is really fair. And I'm thinking, cause even for myself, I'm thinking,
00:53:32
Speaker
I, yeah, it would in your life. Have you noticed, cause I've noticed this on my own at least is that, uh, I at least have the ability to really open up well when it's people who I actually trust deeply.
00:53:46
Speaker
So I think that men have the capacity to do it. I just think that, uh, we're there's that the foundation of trust. I mean, the issue is, is, you know, I've ever years ago and it's,
00:53:57
Speaker
some I'm trying to keep it general so it doesn't go back to anybody. It's not bad. It's just a general thing. But this person was very, ah they just spilled everything in their life right when we met them. right Now, the issue with that is, yes, in an idealistic world, it's rainbows and butterflies. Everyone's on your team.
00:54:16
Speaker
But I'm sorry, travel around the world and see human nature where beautiful, amazing people ah community, creature we're all ah great people in many ways. But you know there are certain parts and certain people that at certain moments may not seek the best for you.
00:54:30
Speaker
So just in that sense, it's this individual, they would just share everything. And I'm thinking, I'm not going to use anything for harm. But I was just thinking, man, If you're sharing this so openly and there are people there are other guys here that you don't trust, don't trust you, i mean, you're kind of giving them a lot of ah reason. you know The thing is, sympathy and empathy, it should be abundant, which it is, but it's also an expense that you kind of need to pay, especially if you don't know somebody.
00:54:57
Speaker
but There's this old expression that if you want to make someone um if you want to make a stranger come close to you, smile, but if you want to make someone you know come close to you, frown.
00:55:09
Speaker
hu Because for the stranger- Show them sadness. Show them your sadness because it's like, wait, I know Scott. Scott, why are you sad? Sure. But if I see a stranger and they're happy, like, ooh, new opportunity. But if they're sad, I wish it wasn't like this in some cases, but unfortunately it is. And I think just to bring it back with the vulnerability element, and that's why I wanted to ask you.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah. I really think it's different when you actually can trust the person and they've proven that, hey, you can trust me. I tell you five o'clock, i'll so I'll call you at five. I'll send you the money at five. Okay, if I trust you, I feel like I could be more open with you. But trust is, I think, what we where we're having in society.
00:55:44
Speaker
I think that's fair. I mean, okay, ah a couple of things. like I definitely, I'm not advocating for, you know, yeah, spilling your guts with somebody in an ah in an environment where it's not safe. I do think it's fair to say that even in relatively safe environments where there is trust, and maybe you and I here on a podcast talking about dating, maybe we're the outliers here. But I think in general, a lot of men have a tricky time with that. You know, I think I think i meet a lot of men who you know that they're therere the The message is drilled into us that um stoicism, stability, um not being affected by the world around you is a virtue, I think. And I think there are there are ways in which that is probably true. And i'm I'm going to pivot into masculine versus feminine. That's the that's the next note i have in on my paper. That is masculine. But I do think in a lot of ways, um and to kind of touch back to what we're talking about with community, because that's kind of where this came from for me.
00:56:35
Speaker
I think like my advice for men, I think one of the best things men can do to improve their prospects with finding a romantic partner is really invest in your friendships. Like hundred percent really find ways to to get your, I'm going to say the word intimacy. and i don't that's I don't mean intimacy, inticy I mean like get your need to feel seen.
00:56:57
Speaker
Like get somebody around you who sees you, who understands you, who makes you feel safe. Like you can get so much of that from friends, friends who are men, friends who women, friends who non-binary, yada, yada, yada. But like, I think you can get that from more platonic sources. And I think i think seeking that community is it's and this kind of touches on something you said earlier with the five archetypes. Like, i think finding that community um is good for you because it it meets a human need. It makes you put less pressure on the dating process and on your potential partner. Right. Yes, yes.
00:57:31
Speaker
And i would I would argue, I would argue that in those archetypes, when you have the local hero, the local celebrity, when you have somebody who feels like, oh, you're connected to people around you. I think one of the reasons that's a really big green flag is that saying, oh, this is somebody that's this is a human being that's having their needs met, because I think we are social animals, you know, um i don I don't know. I just think we are. I i don't have like the degree to make that You don't need to degree, but you have caught you have something called common sense, right? Yeah, thank you. But that's the idea. ah and just your point too, it's, you know, if you're connected with another guy, I mean, let me ask you a question.
00:58:06
Speaker
Do you think that there is a single woman on this earth who knows what it is like to be Scott Simmons with regard to being a man, ah man that is Scott Simmons, versus if you're like, hey, Bruce, I have this challenge, but but but whatever it might be.
00:58:21
Speaker
Okay, I can probably resonate a little bit with you. Even if I have a little maybe less sympathy, empathy, I'm a guy which at least probably has a similar kind of dynamic. It's like telling a woman, man, pregnancy must be really hard. Ooh, I feel that. Damn, I can imagine.
00:58:33
Speaker
No, you can't. You can't imagine that. So exactly to your point, I think it's so beautiful when you're saying, yeah, if that guy has other people in their life, you just put so much less pressure because relationships are supposed to be what?
00:58:45
Speaker
Fun. That's it. You know, one of the frameworks I have, um and I learned this from a coach, it's called the Triple H with dating. And again, I just say these things, people didn't like them, whatever, but it just proved that a lot of ah success with myself and my clients was,
00:59:02
Speaker
in The stages of any relationship, but specifically when there's an interest or attraction, is the first stage is to hang out, i just get together, hang out, make things happen. Second is to have fun because we're going to hang out and not have fun. That's that's weird.
00:59:15
Speaker
Hang out, have fun. And for me, what shifts it from a purely platonic to eventually physically intimate and sexual relationship is to hook up, whatever that looks like for you. Maybe that's a kiss, maybe that's sexual intercourse, whatever it might be.
00:59:29
Speaker
Hang out, have fun, hook So the reason I'm so passionate about all this as well, Scott, is I just made so many of these mistakes that Because for me, i just I didn't have anyone teach me any of this. I had to learn it all my own. had to pull flat on my face.
00:59:44
Speaker
ah Yeah, I had a period where was bitter for a bit and that wasn't good. So that you know now I don't have it all figured out, but in the sense of what actually works? Because I don't care about what sounds good in theory, it right? I'll give you one example that and then we can segue. you know And although although this is kind of funny because I gave this example to probably 20 different people,
01:00:03
Speaker
When I told them the the conclusion, they laughed. But then I told this to my mom and she said, no, no, actually worked that well. So here's what it was. I would ask these people, I said, oh, look ah let's say we're we're talking here. I go, Scott, you know imagine, you know you've seen these movies where Romeo and Juliet, it's the classic love story and Romeo is going for Juliet, but she rejects him. And he goes out of he goes to her house with a speaker or a guitar and it's throwing pebbles out her window.
01:00:30
Speaker
ah What does she do, right? she ah The idea is that she goes, oh, my hero, right? When in reality, in today, i truly go do that. Maybe someone will be generous, but I'm almost positive that if she said no the first time, you show up house pegging the window with rocks, that she'll be like, excuse me, yeah, 911, there's a weirdo. Yeah, she's going to call it please, yeah. so So there's all these false narratives, but it's funny, Scott, because a week ago, i was telling my mom this. We talk about a lot of this stuff.
01:00:58
Speaker
And she goes, well, Bruce, and my parents are divorced, Stephen, but in the beginning, she goes, well, it's funny you say that because your father actually did that for me. I'm like, what? What do you mean? She goes, well, we were kind of already dating and like this, or we were seeing each other and like I was, but whatever it was. And I was at my house with, like there's a guy, because a lot of them are like out on the streets when you're in Brazil. Like you don't go to people's houses, you're hanging on the streets. And my dad,
01:01:20
Speaker
and think it was actually waiting there or something. And he was like, he sang her a song and like all her girlfriends were there and they were like, like late teens, whatever. So like, oh wow. And then like they had a like a 25 year marriage. They tried their best. didn't work, but you know, um it's just, what are we really telling people is actually going to be effective and help them get the outcomes they want?
01:01:41
Speaker
Cause I would truly advocate for the women who are out there. And it reminds me that movie Hitch, which was a great movie and it has some downsides, but How many women today wake up and go, you know what?
01:01:52
Speaker
Oh, man, I really hope today I don't meet anyone incredible. I hope that i just go through my day looking, trying to bring my best self, working hard to just connect with people, my girlfriends, and maybe not meet like the lover of my life, but maybe some guy could be cool. Who knows?
01:02:07
Speaker
How many of them wake up not wanting that? like It just doesn't seem like it makes sense. And from my experience, a lot of ah lot of women who never find that, they go, you know, I kind of wish that I was more intentional and more accurate with how the dating scene was working.
01:02:24
Speaker
um That's interesting. Sorry, that's my phone. ah That's interesting. ah Okay, yeah, masking film and we're gonna put it, we're gonna get to it. We are or maybe this does get to it. I think so we're talking about like, what you know, the big question like what women want, like two dudes in a podcast talking about what women want. Oh my gosh. But like, this is a question for men, like we do have to we do have to figure out like what somebody wants to to determine like, if we're a potential match, right? It's a real question.
01:02:48
Speaker
It's a real question. And also maybe what what do men want? I mean, I would honestly say that there's a little bit of 20% overlap and an 80% directly inverse correlation with what men and women want. I think that's how it works.
01:03:02
Speaker
on On average, of course, because I don't think that, like when you're dating a girl, do you want another girl who is, as it like it may be driven, sure, but has all the same characteristics as you 100%.
01:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. No, I think, okay. but I guess where I'm going with the, what women want thing is, is when when we're, when we're talking about like, do women want a man who's going to do a grand gesture? And I think the thing with the story with your mom and dad is beautiful. Like I think something, was surprised.
01:03:28
Speaker
I was surprised. as i would argue I would argue something that's happening there is he's, he's doing something potentially embarrassing. He's making it clear. He didn't interested and he's doing it in front of her friends. Like he's doing it out in the open. Right. So it it feels like it it, I think it shows a level of commitment. Um,
01:03:45
Speaker
that I think is cool, right? and and And I would argue, and and i this is you your parents, I don't mean to like hop on their story, but like I would say, like as you are as you are finding... Let me go way back to a note that I had earlier. My advice ah my advice to to young men, and I don't know, this is just based on the conversations I've had and the relationship and my experience, right? But like my advice is,
01:04:07
Speaker
find stuff you like to do, find groups that do it, ah and make sure that there's people who are like in your age range, the kind of women that you might want to date to do that thing. Just go do that thing.
01:04:18
Speaker
Go be a good person, make friends, focus on making friends. And that's a great way to meet a Pinterest rag partner. Because I think something that is often lost in modern dating is like, Like, when do you grab your guitar and go sing that song in front of a group of friends? And I think you want to do that once you know someone well enough to to know that that's someone who you want to embarrass yourself in front of, you know, to know that that's someone who you want to make that move and say, hey, yes, I think you're really great. I think we really work.
01:04:49
Speaker
I know myself well enough. I know you well enough. Let's roll the dice. Let's do this thing of life. Right. You know, the man, you know, you're right. But like, I think. Okay, so so so I guess I should say a lot of my worry about...
01:05:03
Speaker
um Okay, so in cold approach in general, I am a cranky old man. I'm i'm like anti cold approach. Okay. Because well, because my my thing about it, and I'm interested to take on this. My thing about this is like, how well do you know this person? You know, like, not at all. Right?
01:05:20
Speaker
I would say there's this woman, ah her she has a pod called Welcome to the Peasant Party, ah Charlotte Warren. She's great. I like I like that name. Wow. that's it's It's she's she's doing great. But she's out there in this space. You know, I would advise looking around.
01:05:34
Speaker
I think her big thing on this is like, if you, and and maybe this just means we're not disagreeing, but like she says, if you see somebody and you think you're potentially interested, go and talk to them.
01:05:45
Speaker
Like just go and talk to this person. Like probably absolute worst case scenario is they're horrible and it's a bad experience, could happen. Most likely outcome is you make a friend.
01:05:56
Speaker
You know, like you make an experience. You know, it's funny. I really want to ask this because it's such a big and important subject. Yeah. ah What is the reason that people refrain from doing so, right? And I think one of the causes is that, you know, I think a lot of um guys have been able to get a lot of immediate access to visual stimulation from women in ways that years years prior, they would have to earn it and to do something.
01:06:21
Speaker
right So essentially, in porn Instagram, on porn, whatever it might be. right So then now you see woman, you're thinking, okay, it's our but they literally have FMI studies about this, that your brain struggles, or maybe not struggles, but has a hard time differentiating between perception and reality, the actual sunset versus perceived sunset.
01:06:39
Speaker
So these guys are going in and I don't blame women at all. Like, you know, the whole RBF, right? and The whole thing. i mean, it's actually a defensive strategy that women use to prevent weirdos and creeps and guys who probably also lack the self-confidence to actually approach them because it is expensive for women to be like, oh, not interested, uninterested.
01:06:58
Speaker
Because after a while, you may get a creep or two, a guy who doesn't take no for an answer and you may not be attracted. And it's really not good. So i actually don't blame them for that. But I love what this person said ah in the sense of,
01:07:11
Speaker
the The cold approach is what? It's you're seeing someone. And I would, I would argue that I've never heard of a man approaching a girl from the other side of the room ah without having any indication of what she looked like. We're like, you know, we're, we're both visual creatures, but men, we tend to place more of a premium on the physical appearance. Like we're kind of hardwired that way.
01:07:31
Speaker
I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's good. It's just what it is. But what these guys got to learn is how do you approach in the sense that you just know the basic dynamics, right? Like here's a, here's something that I taught, ah even myself and that other people, let's say it's uh, you and a guy friend, you go out to a group and there's like four people, right?
01:07:49
Speaker
Or there's five. That's a pretty big group. She's trying to integrate, mingle. Obviously, you're there. you know If you're interested in, let's say, Sarah, and you just start talking to Sarah, blah, blah, blah. You ignore the whole group.
01:08:00
Speaker
ah You went in there and you start hitting on her. You made a really big mistake because you also don't know who everybody else in the group is. right so There's two guys that she's with. you ah You may not approach because you may think, oh, wait, that's her brother. That's her boyfriend. i don't want to be weirdo.
01:08:16
Speaker
Or you just go in and that girl is like, oh, no, no, we just met these guys. Please come in. You're breath of fresh air. So I think if men continue to look at themselves as burdens and they don't know how to navigate this terrain, we're robbing women of the experience. And yeah, I'm putting men on ah on a pedestal because I think we're freaking awesome. I don't think we should apologize for that. I think we're great.
01:08:35
Speaker
think we we kick ass. We do a lot of good things. I don't know if women want the guy who's too afraid to approach. And I also know that they want to feel safe enough where if a guy does approach and they say, hey, I'm not really interested, but but or whatever it might be, that guy has the wherewithal to withdraw himself and to just go somewhere else, go to another group.
01:08:54
Speaker
But we can't
Evolution of Romantic Relationships
01:08:55
Speaker
be shaming people for what's something inherently hardwired into their psyche, into their biology, and they get upset when we don't get what we want because but when for us to get what we want,
01:09:07
Speaker
We're shaming the people for doing what's the prereq to getting us what we essentially want. It's totally upside down. I want to so I think i i definitely don't mean to shame folks who who take that approach. I think, I think the angle that I'm coming at it from is that I think like,
01:09:24
Speaker
I think now more than ever, it is possible to find yourself in a romantic relationship, to to to grow a romantic relationship that is like awesome, that you you connect with someone, someone who's a life partner in ways that even a few decades ago maybe wasn't possible because so much of partnership was just about like survival. you know like ah Women in... like It was like you know less than 100 years ago, had the right to like open a credit or open a bank account on their own. You know what I mean? Right.
01:09:52
Speaker
for for a lot of uh american history which is short but like you know for for a lot of for a long time in the west uh uh uh you know women had to find partnership because they were essentially not valid as as as citizens or as people without it right like it was it was basically mandatory and But now that that's not the case, I think we're seeing a possibility where, and you know, like marrying for love, partnership for love is a relatively new thing. And I think we're seeing now kind of an evolution of that where I think it's more possible now than ever to find something that's like really deeply spiritually, intellectually, physically, like you can really grow something wonderful now, which I think is yeah awesome. Yeah. I think the thing that I, the the reason I kind of like get get so ah cranky about like cold approach and that kind of approach to it is like, i think my wish for all of us is that
01:10:46
Speaker
we could find the patience and find ah find ways to just to kind of get to know each other more and let it be less about like, can i can I go home with this person or is this person hitting on me and does that make me feel valid or whatever? you know what i mean? Like, yeah think- huh Because here's the thing. i think for for my advice to women, totally unsolicited, but like my advice to women would be like, if you're waiting for a man to come and approach you in a bar, if you're waiting for a man to just like come from out of nowhere ah while you've got your walls up and, you know, give you, hit you with a pickup line or like do something um to show you that he's interested or or, you know, basically kind of like intrude on your space, right? Then I think you're selecting for people who are,
01:11:34
Speaker
you know, like he's not only doing that to you, right? many i I guess what's, what would be the challenge with that though, right? I think it's like, you know, I think what I'm hearing you say, I'm sure there's more to that. Like, I think we got to be cautious as to how we we frame these things, right? So I would never say that I'm intruding on a woman's ever.
01:11:55
Speaker
I wouldn't ever say that. And I know it's like a playful sort of thing that in the sense of, i would be cautious with that. I think a lot of times, you know, but when when we have barriers, we, you know, it's it's like the guy who goes to the bar and he's standing in the corner like this with his drink, right?
01:12:10
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's like you're not being inviting in a sense, but ah again, this is where I think the big difference in men and women come in is that like the amount of times that women get hit on or at least get like the gaze is what they call it oogly eyes is like infinitely more than the average man will ever get, right? Like on average, a guy maybe gets a look maybe or like ah a compliment, maybe once a month, maybe,
01:12:34
Speaker
A woman's probably getting like, maybe. maybe And it's like, oh my God, I feel like a million bucks. you know And then most women, they don't get like three a day. And it's like, what the hell? like What happened? So I just like, there's fundamental differences there.
01:12:44
Speaker
And I think any guy would know that of like, wait a second, we're different. We're different. And i I just really strong advocate for, i think, ah being apologetic for desire is a recipe for disaster.
01:12:58
Speaker
It just is. Because even if the guy's like, oh, that guy's going to me just because he thinks he's doing this everybody else. Yeah, like he doesn't know you. Maybe once he gets to know you, he'll only stay with you. But you're not the only attractive woman in this city, in this bar. Like, what do you want him to do? Just wait. And again, you have the idea. But then now watch what happens here, Scott.
01:13:19
Speaker
you know One of the strategies that a lot of guys have is, you know what? i'm just like I'm crushing it. So I'll just chill in the corner and they'll come to me. Which at a certain point of, I would say, attractiveness or of notoriety or all these things, it does happen.
01:13:34
Speaker
I mean, I was young enough to be around when Bieber Mania was going crazy. Yeah, this guy was, he was walking down the street. He was getting swarmed by hundreds of women. When's the last time you know a guy that was even followed by one in his entire 50 years of life? One.
01:13:50
Speaker
I mean, it's just- I think celebrity is ah an extreme outlier from what we're talking about. So yeah, let's let's bring it back. I would say- Yeah.
01:14:01
Speaker
if you have a If you have a room, if you're at lounge or a bar or even a wellness event, if you have 60 people, let's just say 30, 30 men and women, you're probably going to have like five to three to five guys that are probably ah have like more of a charismatic presence who are maybe holding down a group conversation, who may be just more healthy and vice versa.
01:14:19
Speaker
So even in these settings, it's how do we go about navigating it and putting our best foot forward? So, okay. Yeah. How do I communicate? How do I be firm with this? I may not be Chad, this like six foot four movie star guy. Okay. But what else can I bring the table? What else can I add?
01:14:36
Speaker
Because a lot of the times, unfortunately, women and studies say this. I mean, i've even in my own research, women would like to be approached. if They just want to do it have it be done in a way that doesn't i violate their sense of safety.
01:14:50
Speaker
And where guys get the message, if they're not interested, okay, give me some space. Yeah. I mean, so i when we're talking about this, I keep i keep sort of situating this imaginary space in a bar.
01:15:01
Speaker
I've got to like talk to that, right? Sure. I think, I think it depends on like who you're trying to attract and who you're trying to meet. Like, yes I think, you know, if, if drinking is a big part of your life, meeting somebody in a bar is a good place to meet somebody, right? For sure.
01:15:19
Speaker
If it's not a big part of your life, it's not, I would argue. So like, I would say, you know, i'm going i I'm such a big advocate for like, like making friends through friends, you know what i mean? Like the community approach to doing this. And I think I do think that a lot of I think a lot of men who struggle with this, it's, it's tricky to like contextualize because I think there are so many different kinds of people like i I don't know, I'm not a big drinker ah um for all kinds of reasons, that's the story. But like, i don't know, i've I've never been in a bar and had like met somebody and had a nice time and been like, oh, wow, ah you know, we should hang out. I just like in my years on this earth, that's never happened. But but I think that's because of who I am, because i'm not'm I'm in the wrong spot to find what I'm looking for there, right? very i
01:16:13
Speaker
i think I think a lot of people who struggle with finding partnership, you know we've We've lost these like third spaces, right? We've lost these spaces where we kind of, like whatever it was, the town square or church is what it is for a lot of folks. But like spaces where you can meet new people, it's a safe place, um and you know there's interaction with with strangers and with acquaintances, and you sort of build community around you, right?
01:16:39
Speaker
And like yeah I think in the absence of that, we end up with a situation where men, because men are still, we're still the ones who are looked to to be the romantic initiators. ah We sort of feel like, well, what I have to do is like talk to a stranger out of nowhere.
01:16:56
Speaker
and And I think ultimately that's kind of what I want to push on. I think ultimately though that's good. Like, that's good. Yeah. Do you know i'm saying? Because like, and I do like, I i want men to be able to like, I like, honestly, I've done it. I've had a meet cute once on the corner of seventh Avenue and 28th street. Um, she's absolutely not a listener to the podcast, but like, you know, i walked up to somebody and said, you never know, man, you never know. Maybe she'll be one day. I'm fairly confident that oh that guy, that guy, Scott. Oh yeah.
01:17:21
Speaker
Spoiler that it, that relationship didn't end up panning out, but she's an amazing human being, wonderful person, but you know whatever, you know, I did the thing where I walked up to somebody and said, Hey, uh, do you want to get a cup of coffee and wait out the rain? And she said, no, I'll have tea. um But I met somebody that way. And and i think the the thing about that though, even even though we dated for a while and like kind of got to know each other, my wish, I think for all of us, and I don't know how we do this. I don't have a solution for this. I don't know how we do this, but I really think that if we can find a way to just get to where we're getting to know more people,
01:17:58
Speaker
finding that person who can be like your romantic partner is so much easier and so much better, right? Because I feel like we put so much time and effort into figuring out how to find somebody who you think looks hot and how to like,
01:18:12
Speaker
thank get through the progress like the sales funnel of getting to updates. That's a funny way to put it. Yeah. I think it would maybe depend on what your strategy is, right? I mean, if you just got out of a 10-year-long marriage, you may not be looking for a long-term relationship.
01:18:27
Speaker
So you you you may be you may be placing less of a premium on attributes that are correlated with stability and security and maybe attributes that are more correlated with spontaneity and extroversion and openness and maybe even higher on neuroticism, right? So all these things depend.
01:18:42
Speaker
And I mean, even to your point about where to meet, yeah, that's such a great point that you made. i mean, myself, I'm vegan myself. So I probably wouldn't go to a sausage, like no pun intended, in a sausage fest, literal sausage, but And i probably want to go to a sausage fast and say, oh, nice. I'm going to connect with someone here.
01:18:59
Speaker
I mean, you know, would I date someone short term who eats animals? Yeah, I would. I mean, I think it's gross. Honestly, I just do. But I would. I'd say, okay, why not? Because people can change. People can evolve. But overall, yeah, if if you're a bibliophile, if you're obsessed with books and you're nerdy, you know,
01:19:16
Speaker
you could like I remember I dated a girl in college um and we met at a bar, which is very rare because that was kind of my scene, but that wasn't her scene. And we had an awesome relationship like that. Summer was really good.
01:19:27
Speaker
And it was really rare and unique, but I wouldn't advise that, right? Find the place where you naturally are your but the best version of yourself and where you have a little bit of an ecosystem, like you said.
01:19:37
Speaker
The only challenge with that is what if you move to a new town? What if you don't have any friends because you're new to town? Are you now going to have to wait one, two, three, five years to a relationship? I don't know about that. I mean, I think life presents us opportunities.
01:19:51
Speaker
And while it's ideal in certain environments, If we come in with a place of, yes, honest and intent, because what is the worst thing for guy to do ah to a woman, in my opinion? I mean, to anyone to do for anybody, but specifically women feel a little more cheated in the sense, especially when it comes to the route of a guy friend.
01:20:07
Speaker
a lot of guys will say, oh, you know, ah Sarah, and ah I'm really interested in you. Oh, but Jack, let's just be friends. oh Okay, Sarah, no problem. Jack doesn't want to be friends.
01:20:18
Speaker
Jack essentially says, no, I'm attracted. Maybe in a long enough time frame, if I hang out in the vicinity, something will change, something will happen. And I actually think that's very unfair for Sarah because now Sarah confided potentially in a man that she goes, okay, it's purely platonic, good.
01:20:32
Speaker
And yeah, maybe the emotions can change. I think that's exceptionally deceptive, exceptionally ah ah disrespectful even to go down that route. And I think
Honesty and Self-awareness in Relationships
01:20:41
Speaker
when ah when guys don't know how to cold approach, when guys don't know how to build community, when guys don't know how to...
01:20:46
Speaker
ah be discerting, they compromise their values and they violate, in my opinion, the the boundaries of a woman who, in my opinion, wants to feel safe enough to connect with men, but not connect with men under the pretense that it's a platonic relationship where in reality there is a romantic relationship that he is hoping for.
01:21:04
Speaker
I mean, I think i so. I agree with you. Right. But like, I think, I think the events I would see that through is like, I think he's being dishonest. He's being dishonest with himself or with his friend. Right. And I don't want to do that with anybody. With nobody.
01:21:16
Speaker
Because what you're talking about there is, is like friend zoning, right? This is like with the term for it, whatever. yeah And i think the reason i think that it does happen to women. There are women who say to a man, Hey, I'm romantically interested. in the man says, I'm sorry, I don't feel that way. Right. But usually speaking, at least in like the, you know, the dating discourse on the internet, you have men who, who experience getting friend zoned. Right.
01:21:38
Speaker
And I think, I think. I would say, I would say that there' just a funny point there. It's yeah. Yes. That would happen for the gentleman. I say it was a joke that i didn't really agree with, but it's like, I'm going probably butcher it, but it was like,
01:21:49
Speaker
if but if it was like If a guy has is with a partner and then um like another partner or like another woman like shows interest in them or something, he goes, wait, just because I have a salary, I'm not going to accept any any tip.
01:22:01
Speaker
you know it's It's a playful example. I don't really agree with it. But yeah the correlation there is, I think it's a it's quite rare that that happens, right? Quite rare. um But even then, your point, like yes, it definitely happens both sides.
01:22:12
Speaker
But how do we prepare for it? So please go on. Well, i mean I just mean to say like, I think the the the wisdom that I would offer to anybody is just like, you know,
01:22:24
Speaker
work hard to be honest with yourself. Because I think being honest with yourself isn't always easy, right? Right? Like, know, know what you want, know what you're in for, know what you're down for. If you're romantically attracted to somebody, and they say no, thank you. And you're and you're able to find a way to like, you know what, let me give this some time, maybe we can be platonic. If you can do that, you'll know it if you can do that.
01:22:44
Speaker
Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But like, I think as long as you're, I think the goal ought to be to be honest with that person, right? That's all I'm saying. yeah Be honest with it. That's where i think they go south. And I think the issue is where why I wouldn't advocate for that strategy on a long time frame for most men is that, yeah I mean, even for most women as as well, is because it becomes expensive to invest your time, energy, and resources into a partner. Because think it. If you spend one or two years under the guise of platonic friendship with a woman, and not under the guise, let's say if it's an authentic platonic relationship, great.
01:23:16
Speaker
But those two years, I mean, if you're less inclined to go for a woman who's appreciating you reciprocating interest, You're like life is short. I mean, life is quite short and i don't know about you, but I don't want to spend any years of my life.
01:23:30
Speaker
Not like there's a woman out there for the people in your life, for the gentleman. And there's men in your life as well that are thinking, okay, I actually want to connect with somebody because it's not that you want to gain from them. I think that relationships are a place you go to give and not to get.
01:23:45
Speaker
And I think if you go under through the model of how much can I give, think about it. what is the and This is a phrase from Tony Robbins that i really like. He says, you know the only thing you lose in this world is the love that you failed to give.
01:23:57
Speaker
And I think at a certain point, when you have so much to give, but you can't give it, damn that's that's stressful for me. That is a stressful position. I hear that. And yeah, I would say, I mean, for me, I'm a very monogamous person. If I've got like somebody stuck in my heart, or if I've got a crush on somebody, i I cannot, I have a very hard time sort of making room for somebody else until I've kind of gone through the process of letting that first person go. Can can can can we can we can I ask you a question of that? I'm not saying this, I actually just want to understand yeah for you in that sense, like, ah because it,
01:24:33
Speaker
When you're with, yeah, go ahead. Cause I have a so I was just going to say like for that thing, we were talking about like, you know, do you stay in that thing? Do you stay in that, in that friendship? If it's, if it's stopping you from finding something romantic and I would say no, right? Again, I think i it's like, I would advise anyone to be honest with yourself, know yourself, do the work to know yourself, know that it's not easy, but do that work and know like if you need to get out of that connection so that you can open yourself up to something, whatever the universe is going to bring you next, you know, that I would advise that that's all was saying there.
01:25:02
Speaker
No, that's ah that's good. And I like to bring that up because it's also, as you were saying, I was even just thinking one of the most interesting things that I think guys would be wise wording to hit is that women know your interest, whether you say it or not. Like it sounds like, no, no, he would demonstrate it.
01:25:22
Speaker
Most women do know, right? I mean, if you think about it, ah you know, most women are hit puberty like in their early teens, right? So, you know, for better or worse, I mean, about I was 13 and 14, 15, like they're already navigating attraction and interest from very early on in their life from like 12, 13, but whether it's with like other 12 year olds, they're, you know playful, like kid stuff. Right.
01:25:44
Speaker
So they're already learning like the jujitsu of navigating. To be fair. I mean, I think it's fair to say that young women experience how desire way earlier, or they experienced receiving desire far earlier than men do, right? for far earlier.
01:25:56
Speaker
And then even when men get to 18, 19, 20, you think they're receiving interest, the average guy? No. but like They're just not. so it's like And that's such just to add to that. They have a very strong capacity for emotional, i don't want to say just intelligence. I don't want to say that because I think we both have that. But I think more of ah an awareness because for them, not being aware is sort of it's life or death in a way.
01:26:20
Speaker
You go with some weird thing, you can be in a lot of trouble. Whereas asked for guys, like it's so rare that like guys would make such a bad decision because they probably have so few options. And women, me they can be a little more discerting because, well, why would you choose that one guy who's weird and aggressive and a jerk when there's two or three other ones that are kind, generous in a community like you're saying, Scott?
01:26:39
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like there's more of a buffer in that part. I hear that. And I mean, listen to me that that. Well, again, I think that's kind of. kind of based in a lot of the sort of age gap dating stuff. Like we we just find it so much more acceptable for men who are a little bit to a lot older dating, being in a romantic connection with some with a woman who's who's much younger. And like, I think what that that ends up doing is women learn very young, I would argue too young. Like they learn that that's a part of their value. They learn that that's just a part of how they're going have to navigate the world. And like, sure you know, two dudes in a podcast, we cannot yell into the void loud enough to change society. i have no intention to do that. But like that that is kind See, I thought we could, Scott. Let's go, man. But he asked, even with that point too, women actually do look, i mean, these are just an average. I just i love statistics. I know not everyone's a fan, but that's just what the research is saying. Women actually don't also resonate with a guy that is...
01:27:33
Speaker
like significantly older, right? i think I think the variance was in the 20s, it's like two years older. And then for 30s to 40s, it ranges from like four to five years older. But they do on average look for a guy who is somewhat older.
01:27:46
Speaker
But yeah, someone who's maybe 70 and someone who's like 18, That's a little different, right? But again, I'm not here to shame anybody. i think and I think one way that we can also respect not just men and women, but specifically is acknowledging that women have autonomy, right? So I think if we want to empower women, we need to believe that they actually have the capacity to make the choices that they want for who they're interested in.
01:28:07
Speaker
Because if i were if I were to say, oh, no, you can't make it like you chose that guy who's 40 years old. ah you You don't know what he Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry. like i'm abouty I want to be equal in a sense. like She's a full grown woman.
01:28:18
Speaker
And the guy, knows? We need to be mindful of letting relationships exist in their own ecosystem as long as there's not abuse and as long as there's not exploitation. And if there's not, why not?
01:28:30
Speaker
Let them do what they want to do. Yeah. And I think, I mean, like on that, like, I think, i think something, um something that's good for men talk about, something that I hope listeners, to this podcast probably heard me say a bunch, but like, you you're saying like the statistics and stuff, like there's that Pew, that Pew census data.
01:28:46
Speaker
um Oh boy. ah the the show Right. Yeah. No, but I'm sure you've heard this. It's and it's yeah men in their twenties, like 60% of them are single and women in their, in their twenties, like 30% of them are single.
01:28:56
Speaker
I thought you were going to say something different where like Pew has found out that like 40% of all studies are false. and And then I was to say, wait, so what did that mean that this Pew study is false? No, no. Yeah. but you know what I'm saying? There's that. Yeah, that's true.
01:29:10
Speaker
Yeah. a lot A lot of young men are single. a lot of young women are not single. And I think, I just think it's something like as, as we are kind of shining flashlights in the dark woods of figuring out romance in this modern era, I just think it's useful for us to like share these things with each other, say to each other, like,
01:29:27
Speaker
you know it's It's tough out here. Here are the things that are challenging. It's tough, man. It's tough. Yeah, go ahead. well i think whenre when we're talking When we're talking about... I guess I'm just kind of harping on the age gap thing because like that 30% gap, those women in their 20s, they're dating somebody, right? Right.
01:29:44
Speaker
Yes. And it's not many the 20s. So they're dating. but but so so And this is like an evolutionary thing. Obviously, I'm sure you're in aware of the term hypergamy. Well, just a hypergamous term, right? Sure. yeah And this is like cross-cultural. So the reason I brought up that study earlier, it's like 37 nations, capitalists, socialists, ah religious, more atheist-oriented.
01:30:03
Speaker
like Cross-culturally, time ad infinitum, the tribes in Brazil, there are certain patterns that And if certain patterns exist independent of culture and ah religious ideology, we should look at that, right?
01:30:18
Speaker
it's like you know It's like the boy who's crying wolf, but this like the boy is actually crying wolf and the wolf is coming. like yeah And you know, actually, Scott, it's funny because just for what it means to be a man, that expression is very misunderstood.
01:30:30
Speaker
Like the boy cries wolf, right? Here's what happens is the boy cries wolf and a lot of the times we actually ignore the cry, but we don't realize that Eventually, the wolf comes for the boy and the boy survives, but the boy doesn't become better. He becomes bitter.
01:30:46
Speaker
He comes back with a sort of a sort of desire to to actually just figure out, how do i not be in love and be connected and have love, but how do I control so I never lose love?
01:30:58
Speaker
That's a really scary place to be in. And I think that's where a lot of ah lot of ah younger guys tend to be because think about it. You're not in a relationship. ah Most women aren't attracted to you. Why? You're 20, you're broke, you have no life experience, no one wants to hire you, no other women are attracted to you, no guy is going to follow you.
01:31:16
Speaker
Those are all unattractive qualities for women. They just are. And it's like, how do we go through that? Guys got to work on themselves. It's it's It's a burden and a blessing, I guess.
01:31:29
Speaker
So, okay. So to to kind of tie this together and we should, we should wrap up at some point sooner. It's really awesome talking to you, but to tie that together, right? That, that Pew study, right? The 30% gap and a book that I'd recommend to, recommend to anyone, Rebecca Tracetor's, all the single ladies, you know, i see that yeah yeah it's a good one. I recommend it. um ah And, you know, looking at what women want, as we're guessing, or trying to figure out what women want, you know, we are seeing a lot of young women, I think, either date older, or just choosing not to date at all, because they, I think, don't feel like ah relationships are like bringing anything to their life, right? I think there are a lot of young women who- A hundred percent.
01:32:08
Speaker
Right? hundred percent. I would advise, so my, you know, my advice there, and i I think you're agreeing here is like, have men like, know, work on yourself, be someone who is going to be a value add in a relationship, like be someone who is ready to bring something good to a relationship.
01:32:23
Speaker
Sorry. Yes. What is the incentive? And this is where I really get to the kind of, there's the evolution side and the economic aspect of it. You know, what is the, so it's like this, right? So I do believe through the research I've done and just from press experience, you know,
01:32:38
Speaker
it's historically societally that women do tend to want to date equal across the board and somewhat went up in the sense of looking for someone who is has the capacity to ah provide provision and also procreate in ways that are complimentary, but are are also somewhat more beneficial to them than it they would be otherwise, right? Same reason that most women don't want to date the guy, even though he's a very nice guy at Starbucks, at Chipotle, who's a janitor. Those are all great guys. i have friends who do those positions, work at these places. I think they're great humans, but typically women don't want to do that.
01:33:12
Speaker
So, but how did society change? So most women now who are, especially in their early twenties, mid twenties, late twenties, There really is no incentive for them to commit because we believe the notion of also women are like, you know before we needed a guy, but now we don't need a guy, which I would vehemently disagree with, ah which is actually very sad. i and I'll come back to this point.
01:33:32
Speaker
I would ask women in groups, even one-on-one, I'd say, let me ask you a question. Raise your head if you believe you need a refrigerator. okay and They would raise their head. and I'm like, okay, interesting. okay you You need a refrigerator. Awesome.
01:33:48
Speaker
So, and I'll raise your hand if you need a man in your life. And how many heads do you think went up? Not a lot. Zero. Every time. And I'm like, interesting. So you need you need a piece of metal that keeps your food cold, but not another living, breathing, sentient individual who would die for you if you had the capacity and would want to love you and help electrify and galvanize yours and his life together?
01:34:11
Speaker
Is that what I'm hearing? And then I'm getting the i'm getting the contention, the pushback. Oh, but I'm single. There are no good guys. I get it. Because now you don't need a guy for his financial provisioning, right? So what are men worth?
01:34:22
Speaker
Oh, no, men can provide financial provisioning, so they're nothing. they just no No, no, that's just having that mentality. And I've worked with women who were in their late 30s, 40s, and a lot of them are struggling.
01:34:32
Speaker
A lot of them had to have ah children without a guy. And most women, from what I've been my research people I work with, we prefer that we're missing a lot of the pieces. Sure. We're missing it. And ah the, the, the final tip on this, what's happened in the Western society. And I think it's two things.
01:34:51
Speaker
We live in my opinion, we don't live. at Monogamy is more appreciated, preached and kind constitutionalized, right? put it into our structure sure because it has more societal long-term benefit.
01:35:05
Speaker
However, we've actually dramatically over the past three or four years post-COVID, we've shifted to a much more polygynous society in the sense of you have typically one guy or very few guys at the top who basically have a lot more access to a lot of other women. And the women, they're like this.
01:35:22
Speaker
I don't want to share it. like Most women want monogamy on average, more than men that statistically, although there's benefit for both. But most women are going to want monogamy, ah but they're thinking, okay,
01:35:34
Speaker
I want Chad, this amazing guy. i sort
Modern Masculinity and Emotional Needs
01:35:36
Speaker
of Wait, wait. i was He's like the best guy ever. Wait, but man, like he doesn't want to be just with me? Oh, man. Okay, but now I got to make a choice. And it doesn't mean that I'm less of a woman. It doesn't mean i'm more of a woman. But what do I want to resonate with? So 21, 22, 28, 30, whatever it is.
01:35:51
Speaker
Now, I could actually forego this option of Chad or I could just wait until I'm in my 30s, wait until my 40s, use an IVF, find someone later, whatever it might be. yeah But the issue there is like the economic, like I but i got my under undergraduate the degree in economics and it just does not make any sense because the supply and demand portion is just off.
01:36:10
Speaker
So then you have 90% of the women that want 10% of the men and the leftover 90% of the men fighting over the leftover 10% the women. Yeah. Okay. So I've heard that a lot. And Scott Galloway likes to call this Porsche polygamy.
01:36:22
Speaker
Porsche polygamy. Yes. his a Great book. How to be, and I have it on my shelf. And he's is totally right. He's totally right. Well, okay. I want to push on it a little bit because like, I think, I think what that, I think what that analysis is missing is the experience of men, or I'm sorry, the experience of women in their forties and fifties.
01:36:40
Speaker
Because for men in their 40s and 50s are the guys driving Porsches dating those women in their 30s, right? And they're trying to figure out like, do I want to have kids with an older guy? And like to your age gap dating thing before, like when people do studies on this stuff, they don't even call it age gap dating until it's a 10 year age gap.
01:36:54
Speaker
So when you do like psychological studies and you have a nine year age gap in terms of, I mean, I like i didn't draw the note line, but like for these folks and they got to pick a number somewhere, right? But when they're picking numbers to study like what's what's driving age gap relationships, they choose a decade.
01:37:08
Speaker
Which is to say, six, seven, eight, nine year year age gap, which I would argue is a pretty big age gap. um It's not even showing up on kind of the studies radar. And like, wow i I think, like, here's what i I get it. Like, I'm sure that happens. I'm sure there's like super famous guys, super rich guys who like, are able to date multiple women and like, i don't know. Honestly, to me, that sounds like a headache. That sounds like, I i don't know. i would I would screw that up. That would be a mess. it' it's It's like Leonardo DiCaprio, right? And like people hate this example and I can't believe we brought him up twice. Although he was he was Time's Entertainer of the Year.
01:37:41
Speaker
He just won that award, so it's pretty cool. But in that sense, it's like, It's not prescriptive for what everybody wants. Of course not. Everyone is different. But on average, I think the idea is, if we like, I think the idea is, for me, I think it's a big disservice for women. i actually met a woman the other day and she was like, yeah, I was fed a lot of information that didn't really resonate. And of course, that's anecdotal. I know it's one experience, but it's like, there are different timelines. Like as a guy, you can have a kid into your seventies, potentially.
01:38:08
Speaker
As a woman, like the clock is different. So be like what where I get frustrated, it's, I'm not saying that you need to subscribe to this system. That's not what I'm saying. yeah All I'm advocating for is have an awareness that these are the pros and potential cons of the decisions you're about to make. Because if you're not aware and informed of what you're doing, you cannot say you have autonomy. And especially when we we say we care so much about consent, you can never actually consent to something if you never had an awareness of it in the first place.
01:38:38
Speaker
That's impossible. I mean, the the the way that I would kind of approach that is like, you know, i think it's and I think it's important to understand the systems that you live in as you're trying to navigate them, right? 100%. I think you're saying the same thing there. I think, okay, so the hypergamy thing, that do women need a guy? i i think, you know,
01:38:56
Speaker
I think we're going through a time when, and we're going finally get to masculinity versus femininity. We did it. think we're living- I think we're- Yeah, know, right? They're freaking hours. It's okay. We're good. We'll wrap soon. It's okay. Go for it. We got time. Go for it. Yeah, we'll wrap on this.
01:39:11
Speaker
i think Tell me what you think about this. I think we're living through a time when what society expects and allows for women has changed pretty radically pretty recently.
01:39:23
Speaker
um And totally putting aside the question of whether or not we think that's a good thing. For now, I don't care about that. But I think it's safe to say that we have pretty radically altered what women are allowed to do and what women are expected to do, right?
01:39:35
Speaker
I think we haven't, I think we are kind of in the process of doing that work for men. I think we're kind of like on a delay. And I think a lot of what it is to be a man, to get back to that, um and I want to get into masculinity, femininity, right? Like a lot of what it is to be masculine, to be a man, i think is built on in some cases, an outdated model of what's valuable in that kind of partnership. And a lot of the life that a lot of men feel, I don't want to say entitled to, but I think a lot of the life, the life that many men are kind of aiming at, we didn't really know, we weren't really told how that life was built on kind of, i don't want to say the unpaid labor of women, but but that life was built on women doing things that women would do
01:40:21
Speaker
yeah a system ago, right? A generation ago. And I think men right now, what we're doing is we're kind of like trying to figure out, well, what is it to be a good man now? Like now that she doesn't need me ah for my salary ah or my ability to provide or my ability to protect um or my ability to create, right? Just to provide a protect thing, it's One of the biggest misconceptions, not that, it's kind of a different way to look at it is it's not necessarily just financial provision. It's also ah an emotional protection and provision, right? And Scott Galloway, to your point, he said this, he said, women, like if you a girl's with another guy and that's exactly like her, you you have two you have two people crying in the parking lot together. And after a while, like the woman wants to feel nurtured, safe, and secured and protected in that sense. I mean,
01:41:10
Speaker
I just, it's I struggled to accept the premise. Essentially, it's because I think when we reduce guys to just paychecks in the same way that we reduce women to just sexual objects, right? Sure, sure, sure. We're saying that there's more. I think we do the same for guys. I think on, in a lot of ways,
01:41:26
Speaker
Women do tend to brag like, oh my gosh. Like you said, women have a smaller dating pool. Even women who are like a college degree making $500,000 a year, it's very rare and unlikely that they want to date a guy who, unless he has lot of masculine frame, just energy-wise, and he has that base, she's going to struggle to find a guy.
01:41:44
Speaker
Right? so if fish want to hate somebody that makes less thaner Because her pool becomes smaller. and it's yeah we can And we can tell people like, oh, women, you shouldn't think like that. Well, you could tell me what, but attraction isn't a choice.
01:41:56
Speaker
I'm attracted to it. The culture can influence me, tell me who's attractive, but I'm going to respond. It's like the same you tell a homosexual person, right? You know, if we're going down the road, we believe it's biology. I'm not going to say oh, no, no, that's just because you watch too many shows.
01:42:07
Speaker
And really, nor would I, I mean, yeah, not and I'm not going to say to myself, like I shouldn't be attracted to somebody who's, who's younger than me. I tend to date people who are younger than I am. Attraction is attraction. I agree with you. It tries attraction. Let's ah shame Scott for having a choice.
01:42:23
Speaker
Yeah. I guess I just mean that like, I think, I think like understanding the playing field, like understanding the game, if you will, when you put it that way um and i And I do agree. I think that emotional that emotional safety, well, I don't know, man. I think the emotional safety thing, I think that's i think that's really, really critical.
01:42:41
Speaker
But I think that's something that women are now selecting for. i think that's something i think that's something that women are now aiming for, that women a generation ago would feel lucky to have. yeah But I think there were a lot of a lot of marriages that happened where women didn't have that.
01:42:54
Speaker
The number one reason, so if you look at infidelity between men and women in marriages, so the men who actually have infidelities in marriages, they're actually like they They did studies. I mean, of course, some study can like counter this, but just intuitively, they were saying like, so no, I had a lot of marital satisfaction. I just wanted like novelty. like it wasn't Of course, there's variation to that. But for women, a lot of the times is I lost the emotional connection.
01:43:21
Speaker
So to your point, there is a high premium on emotional connection. And now when there's a lot of choice, I mean, women are thinking in sense of, have more choice. I don't need him to pay for everything, blah, blah, blah, blah. So what do i need him for?
01:43:33
Speaker
from my experience, I found ah the women that I speak to that I've worked with as well, they're they're not doing well. And it's not that you need a guy who provides more than you. That doesn't work in every dynamic. But the outsourcing of certain qualities and certain attributes and traits and behaviors to each party actually puts them in a more natural element.
01:43:53
Speaker
Right? So like, And I learned this at a Tony Robbins seminar that I did about what the feminine and the masculine response to, right? So I think it's with ah or what kills intimacy between the masculine and the feminine. So not even if you're like a business or attraction, it was three C's for men and three U's for women or for the feminine, right? For the feminine, it was being unseen, unsafe, and not understood, right? That's what kills polarity with the feminine.
01:44:23
Speaker
and With the masculine, it was being criticized, being controlled, or that the woman was closing off intimacy and affection. right Because you know the masculine feminine respond to different things. So as you're saying that women want the guy who has the emotional attunement, the capacity due to do that, 100%.
01:44:41
Speaker
And women are now placing more of a premium on them. That's awesome and that's amazing, as they should. At the same time, there are certain things that you can't really replace that I think we're trying to, but maybe we just haven't got there yet.
01:44:53
Speaker
Do you think – I mean, when I – and maybe – I don't know. Maybe I'm just like not in my masculine man. But like when you talk about like being unseen and understood – We have both. We have both. Hold on. We have both, by the way. We have both. but but we We live more in one. But continue. We have both. But we live more in one than the other. yeah That's fair. i have feminine too. have feminine as well. Yeah. But I don't – do you think – I would – I totally faith based shot in the dark, but like, I would say, I think all people in a romantic relationship or in any kind of relationship want to feel seen, want to feel understood. think that's a core human thing. A hundred, a hundred percent. That is a core human thing.
01:45:30
Speaker
The, so this is where actually, as we were speaking like 10 minutes ago, I thought, what is, you know, There's a really good book I read, right? ah It's a popular subject, but it's called The Myth of Male Power. It was a book by Warren Farrell, PhD. He was on the National Organization for Women.
01:45:46
Speaker
He was a co-chair or co-board with Gloria Steinem. I built a relationship with him over the past year. Met him in San Francisco, and then we met him somewhere south of L.A., for a lunch. And it was cool. I thought, because he was like a hero of mine just getting into the space.
01:46:02
Speaker
um And one thing he talked about, which you kind of alluded to, was he talked about stage one versus stage two. and in stage one, it's more survival roles. And then stage two is more a goal role, right? Where a survival role, stage one is more, hey, like I got to go out and hunt. You got to go and protect the house and the kids. Like do this. Very stage one.
01:46:21
Speaker
And as we grow as a society and as culture, we've evolved, would say, but i don't even want to say it's negative to be in stage one. We've transitioned in some domains it's a stage two. So to your point about the masculine feminine, we both want that.
01:46:33
Speaker
But I think what we're trying to do at this point is say, we have our base biological level and our higher quote-unquote intellectual level. And I think it's that constant transition from stage one is the more biological, stage two may be the more intellectual.
01:46:46
Speaker
But I think the biological is so strong that it does influence the intellectual. I mean, even like the male and female brain is different. like it's literally at it like It's physically different. to sure So not to say that we don't want kindness, we don't want to be seen, I'd love to be seen 100%.
01:47:02
Speaker
Just the thing is, if I come from a broken home and I've never been seen by my mother or my father or by my siblings or by anybody, yeah, maybe I'll place more of a premium on that. Maybe. But if someone comes from that in abundance, they may want to replicate that, but they may not have the same ah they may up put the same weight behind getting that need met from their partner.
01:47:23
Speaker
Yeah. So it varies. It varies. I think, yeah. but I think it varies. i think i think I think more and more... Okay, stage one, stage two right? I think... and by very fortunate that like stage one issues aren't like a big concern for me, right? Like I think ah most folks in the podcast, hopefully you are fortunate enough that like you're not you're not struggling struggling to make ends meet. You know what I mean? Like being in a partnership to, I think more and more it's possible to be in a partnership where what you are striving for is an awesome life and not just survival, be it social survival, economic survival, right? Which is great. That's an awesome problem to have. We're definitely talking about modern dating you know in the year 2025, not like survival subsistence farming, um which is real for a lot of people. i don't want to disregard that, but this is kind of what I'm interested in.
01:48:10
Speaker
What does it look like in a world that is becoming more interested in relationships that are meeting each other, meeting each other's emotional needs, finding partnership? what does it What does it look like to be masculine?
01:48:23
Speaker
What does it look like to be a good man? You know what i mean Which is a totally loaded question, but like where does your mind go? yeah ah Well, so again, it would depend, right? I mean, if I'm in Morocco, I remember I would see two guys in the street like holding hands.
01:48:36
Speaker
And for me, it's fine. But I was also thinking, whoa, this is, I mean, am I used to seeing this? Right. And for them, it's more mainly because it's more endearing. It's more connective. ah Whereas if you go parts of the US, you go to Brazil where my family's from. men like platonic friends holding hands. lets ah plus yeah this is platonic, right? So yeah this so it's just, oh, too they're platonic. they're like Wow, okay. You don't usually see that, right? yeah And I actually think we've lost that as a culture where there is such a ah fear of anything that's not specifically within that domain of a hetero approach that any deviation of it is, ah it's weird.
01:49:10
Speaker
So I think that's that's just one example to illustrate how culturally there is heavy influence. And rock was a little more stage one, and not that we're an abundance of stage two. We all kind of oscillate between the two.
01:49:21
Speaker
Sure. down Yeah. I think that the culture of the time plays a part. the The issue with, I think, defining a man, it's if you do look at the sense of, so male, female, and then man, woman, if you look at what a man was in the fifteen hundreds versus the eighteen hundreds There's fluctuations and variates, but I think that the through line typically was the role that was ah prescribed, which was provider, protector, and like Scott Galloway says, the facilitating and procreation. right um and I don't think that actually changes. One, because I think one thing that we've ah co-evolved with is our our anatomy, our physiology.
01:49:58
Speaker
but I think that really does influence how we actually go about Navigating life, navigating ah friendship, navigating romance, navigating recreational activities.
01:50:08
Speaker
i think this thing's tapped into what is more inclined to be activities that would bring up more of the feminine than bring up more of the masculine. in that sense. Right. If you have more, if you have more of like a, like a bigger body, you may be playing football or you maybe able to take more hits. We have thicker bone density, like basic things like this, uh, for the man part.
01:50:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's really a struggle because it's cross culture. How do you define how to go about it? I think it is tied and correlated with being a male. And I think at its core, it's, uh, I would actually, this a good way to binary it is, you know, like and the masculine is like, the masculine man is more like a mountain and the feminine female is more like the weather.
01:50:51
Speaker
right? Okay. they're They're both powerful in their own regard. Yeah. And I mean, the weather is insane. It can destroy, it can create. Sure. But even with that, it has a sort of of a base that guys typically have to have. And this is one of the key differences.
01:51:06
Speaker
And I said this years ago and I got in a lot of trouble. Well, a lot of ah a very visceral reaction where I'm like, guys, um obviously let's extrapolate and see where the truth is. ah Where it's guys don't necessarily have the same luxury that women have ah with regards to not being capable and or competent in certain areas. Now, what do I mean by that before everyone who's listening gets upset or maybe having been upset?
01:51:32
Speaker
I mean, just think about it for God's sake, right? If you walk down the street of your home, you'll see three homeless people, a man, a woman, and a child. Who gets saved first? The child. Second, the woman, last, the man.
01:51:43
Speaker
If you look at the Titanic, who got who got on the boats last? Predominantly or the men. Who are the men that, let's say in this war in Ukraine or Russia, I mean, the soldiers are predominantly, of course, there's exception, predominantly men. And the women are fleeing, which is a terrible crisis. Who likes war? These warlords are just crazy people.
01:52:05
Speaker
At a certain point, like there are certain differences that we have in that sense. And I think to negate how that's really a part of our fundamental biology, a fundamental part of our inclination to survive, I think it's really missing the point. so That is more of a descriptor for stage one.
01:52:23
Speaker
However, now that we're still moving to a stage two society, we still have a lot of these patterns that play that go into place. Because unfortunately, or fortunately, when we get closer to survival, we do tend to revert a little back a little bit more back to essential-based gender roles, which do place an emphasis on what people find attractive and what they don't.
01:52:44
Speaker
I'm not saying we need to stay there. I'm not saying it's good, bad. yeah And ah the goal is let's go to stage two, like you said. Let's go to place where we have more choice, where we can understand how we can operate being a man, being a woman, but evolve in this life.
01:52:58
Speaker
But I think because our biology is so extensive with evolution, I think it's hard to separate who we've had to be for hundreds of thousands, millions of years to who we are not being for the past 60 years and expect everything to change.
01:53:12
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So, so here's, here's what, here's what I hear about that, that don't want to say worries me, but like, okay, so right. But like I, I wartime ah homelessness ah being on a sinking ship in the middle Atlantic, like,
01:53:28
Speaker
this concept of masculinity, my fear with the concept of masculinity and masculine, the feminine, it's it's having a big moment on all and the discourse on the internet, right? right my My fear in this is that like those are situations where, and and whether it's society or whether it's biology, I kind of don't care.
01:53:47
Speaker
i I don't think that's necessarily the interesting part of the question is like whether it's natural or how it how it should be. um i'm i'm I'm not even really that interested in that because, well, whatever. But like I feel like as men, i should speak for myself, as a man, I feel like when I am...
01:54:06
Speaker
told to be masculine, oftentimes what that means to me is be stoic. Like now is not the time to to sort of be in your emotions. Now is not the time to say, I feel panicked because this boat is sinking. Now is the time to say, get the women and children on the freaking life rafts and get them out of here. and when i'm in you know not that i'm ah somebody i'm Not that I'm a warfighter, but like if I'm somebody with a gun in my hand in a trench, worrying about drones, worrying about tanks, worrying about whatever the hellscape is, I'm sure the folks in Ukraine are dealing with. um
01:54:37
Speaker
I'm not thinking about like, is it time to tell my fellow soldiers soldiers like I feel terrified or is it time to talk about, you know, my feelings? Right. Like ah you hear what I'm saying, like the masculinity. Yes. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think I think a lot of times the message we get is being vulnerable, sharing your sharing your vulnerability, sharing your emotions, sharing your weakness with somebody is not the thing to do. And in those situations, when I'm homeless on the street and worrying about like how to get by, that is not what I'm doing. I'm surviving, right?
01:55:08
Speaker
and And I think, so kind of what scares me about that, and I'm not and i'm i'm not trying to like pin you down on that on that specific framing, but I hope you hear like where I'm coming from. And in case I'm ever when I'm wrong, tell me if I'm wrong. But like, i do feel like the general concept of masculinity fucks us up sometimes because we get into this place where we're not ready to we we don't we don't bring ourselves to that emotional place. We don't bring ourselves to that.
01:55:32
Speaker
um that place where we can be honest with ourselves to determine like, what do I want in this partner? Or being honest with their partner and saying like, I don't know, whatever we got to say. I think we are taught that it is valuable to to suck it up and to endure and to be stable um kind of no matter what. And I think that kind of like emotional safety ah that that women are looking for now, I think, and and I'm not, and I want to yell at women here, but I think like a lot of times women who I've talked to on this pod and in life, like,
01:56:02
Speaker
they, I think they have a tricky time, like identifying what they're looking for. Like, like who they, who they are initially attracted to sometimes is not who they end up having a healthy relationship with.
01:56:14
Speaker
Yeah. Because think I'm not, I'm not pinning it just on men. I think like this idea of what is a good man. i think this is something that we're deciding together the same way that we decided together expectations and requirements or expectations and possibilities for women have changed.
01:56:27
Speaker
I think as a society together, it's time for us to, to, change affect expectations and change possibilities for men. And I, I don't know. That's my, that's like me on my soapbox there. No, it makes sense in the sense of, think one of the, the challenges it's with the stoic thing, cause I actually, I'm pretty big into stoicism. I had the fortune of going to, to Greece for a stoicon. It was like comic con, but for practicing stoics. I went, when I was in Morocco, I went there for like a week. It was insane. I loved it. It was a great trip.
01:57:00
Speaker
So I'm a fan. And yeah, I think there's a lot of downside in the sense of just purely 100% stoic with regard to just a total indifference to emotions. I think what's more powerful is the recognition of an emotion and then from there, making a conscious choice of what to do.
01:57:16
Speaker
I think that actually gives us a lot of power. I would say, you know, if you're in the trenches in Ukraine, and I mean, I know it's horrific, yeah or in any war zone, if you're there, i mean, if me and you, are where we're in a bunker together and there's bombs coming above us.
01:57:29
Speaker
um if we're fighting and then I were to say to you, like i'm so I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm scared. ah Like, yeah. but we it's terrible.
01:57:40
Speaker
I don't know how that helps the group in that immediate moment. Like, Bruce, we like we're all feeling the bumps. Like, this is terrible. But pull yourself together. we need to survive right now.
01:57:52
Speaker
But that's just an extreme example, right? Yeah, yeah. In normal sense, it's like, hey, like I'm really concerned. I think when there's a moment to breathe, it's have of space is's like, look, Scott, I totally get it. Yeah, it's tough. It's scary. I totally feel it. Yeah, because we want to be seen, like you said. Totally get that. That's beautiful.
01:58:07
Speaker
Scott, I get it. What do you need? Because I think a lot of the times, well, and I like it too, to talk through emotion. Trust me. I like it maybe a little more than the the average person. I think what's also helpful is One of the things I think that we can also do to facilitate ah guys so just to just improve is a lot of times solutions are what help guys.
01:58:26
Speaker
I mean, it's like, man, I can't pay my rent, so I feel like I'm worthless. Okay, like kind of if I give you a job tomorrow and you can make $1,000 working in a construction site for two days, do you think you'll still feel terrible?
01:58:37
Speaker
Well, I feel much better. Like the room may not be solved. Like I can breathe. So I think that what when we have room to breathe a little bit, and that's it' something to figure out when you're so stressed, then i think that's when we can have more vulnerability and to share that.
01:58:49
Speaker
I think just in heavy times of in that stress that are more immediate, yeah i it just may not be the most effective at that moment. And in an ideal world, yeah, we would have that all the time.
01:59:01
Speaker
up Yeah, I guess I just mean like, you know, I think – you know what How we behave in the extremes, I don't know. i think I guess I'm just worried that we can learn the wrong lesson there. right because like Definitely. As we're moving through life, as we're mortal people who are not celebrities, we're just like folks moving through the world, doing our thing, and hoping one day to meet somebody who might be that awesome partner who you're going to do life with. Let me ask you a question, Scott. For you, i don't know your situation, but when you met this partner, like you're saying, or when you will meet, how do you know achieved
01:59:40
Speaker
I'm being specific with words, but how do you know you have the al outcome that you were in before that you had hoped for? I don't know your situation, but just how do you know? Okay. Because I think that's one thing that people don't understand often is, you know, so often we hit the target, but we realized that that wasn't the target we wanted to hit.
01:59:57
Speaker
And then we think, oh boy, I hit the wrong target, you know? So for yourself, how do how do you know you reached that moment of, okay, yeah, this is, i got this. Because yeah yeah how do you know?
02:00:09
Speaker
That's a good question. I think, um, uh, you know, I think it's, for me, I think it's a gradual process. I think it's, you know, like they say, love is an action, not a thing, right?
02:00:21
Speaker
Like I, I, I know if it's the right connection. If I think I find myself feeling safe, feeling seen, uh,
02:00:34
Speaker
ah you know, if you if you feel activated, if you you feel that like that sunlight within you. um And of course, you know, no relationship is perfect. You don't, you don't get into a relationship and like all of a sudden the world turns from black and white to technicolor and like everything is fine, right? It's a partnership that you grow, that you put work into. And I think for me, i know for me, it's a, you know, I look for those green flags. I know that I'm in something that I want to keep putting time and energy into.
02:01:03
Speaker
um If I feel like there's a future, um and But also, you know, that that that that thing that you can't replace, that chemistry, that like feeling in your, that feeling that I get in my chest, like the warm fuzzies, you know, where it just like, it just feels good, whether it's chemical, whether it's spiritual, i don't know, I don't care, but like, I know it when I feel it, you know what i mean? I think when I have those things, I know that you want to invest in.
02:01:28
Speaker
but you know you You know you want to invest in it when you have a more so the feeling, you're you're seeing, you feel heard in that sense. ah Yeah, I mean, I think because that is sort of the catalyst, at least ah initially for the the onset of that dynamic.
02:01:41
Speaker
ah what i've What I've learned, at least from my end, and maybe in a different domain, ah That is essential, 100%. Because if you don't have that, like what are we doing, right? ah And as well as for the sustainability element, ah would be i always advocate for, like we said in the beginning, ah shared vision for the future and comparable and compatible values. Right.
02:02:04
Speaker
in that sense. Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, i'm sure you, some of your buddies or whatever it might be has connected with someone and like, Oh man, it's amazing on paper, but we just don't have that spark. We're all, dude, we have such a good spark, but yeah, the values of vision are kind of off, you know? And then, and then maybe it's, it's tough because this is why I think so much of these movies do so much damage because it, you know,
02:02:26
Speaker
that What they're painting is possible. It's just so much more rare. um and i think what people forget is like you know if i don't have... ah I hate to use me as an example, but If I don't have, okay, let's say if but I don't have a vegan steak that's perfectly done, perfect, I don't want it.
02:02:46
Speaker
Really? You don't want a steak that like, a vegan steak that's cooked, and maybe like, yeah what is it? like ah Medium well, is that like you're really going to throw a fit? like right This is pretty good.
02:02:57
Speaker
like Come on now. I think at a certain point, you know this is a concept I'd like for you to just kind of sit on is It's this idea between ah a maximizer and a satisficer.
02:03:10
Speaker
It's from this book called The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz. You're nodding your head, so I'm sure familiar. And I realized, wow, who am I in this case? And does it ever change? How much of it is chemical? ah And you know unfortunately, when you seek only the best, you may actually have the best and you may never realize it.
02:03:28
Speaker
Sure. As well. Yeah. So I think just be mindful of good, good, good, great, great, great. Yeah. Don't settle. Don't compromise. but but Because also, you know as a man, ah I'll say specifically, there's a verse from the Bible I like.
02:03:41
Speaker
It's a the Proverbs 21.9, something like that. It basically says, better ah it's better to be on the corner of a roof than in a relationship with a woman that like you just guys... it was Something like that, you guys are not connecting.
02:03:57
Speaker
So I think just so often... so often yeah it's let me actually just pull it up because I like it too much to... It's a butcher. it It says, it is better to live on a corner of of the roof than share a house with quarrelsome wife.
02:04:09
Speaker
And quarrelsome is very different. Quarrelsome is very different than like having a different opinion. Quarrelsome is like, there's a propensity to to to quarrel. you know There's a different part. So all that's advocated of be mindful and guys and people compromise their values in order to meet their needs when they live at scarcity rather than abundance.
Conclusion and Reflections
02:04:30
Speaker
But in order to live in abundance, it's not just the mindset, it's the confidence and the competence to replicate something that you have that you know you can get again.
02:04:39
Speaker
If you got a six pack, and you were to just binge, like you'd have a little more confidence and confidence than somebody else who never got a six pack in the first place because you know the skillset, you know the, oh, you know, it's a phase like, yeah, you may not be crushing dating right now and you may be offering a game, but you know, it'll come back.
02:04:56
Speaker
You know, you can do it. I would say, I want to agree with that. And just to kind of close out here. So reese I moved, two years ago, I moved. I moved cities because, essentially because I was having a tough time dating. I was, I was not in a place where I was able Where were you before?
02:05:09
Speaker
was in San Francisco. Oh, tough city. A lot of dudes. lot of dudes in Texas. Well, sometimes it's just the ratios, my friend. i mean, a lot of people say, you know, I want a tall, just as an example, of tall a tall, blonde, blue-eyed person. i'm like, okay, why are you in Brazil?
02:05:24
Speaker
It's literally like medium-height, brown eyes. Like, go to Scandinavia. What are you doing? But yes, continue. but mean yeah but you know ah ah and and i didn't like find the relationship immediately when I moved to SoCal, but what I found was a sense of hope.
02:05:41
Speaker
I found that more people who were kind of close to what I was looking for were willing to talk to me. i was able to meet people in real life. and it it just It felt to me like um there was that possibility. and i guess that is my wish for for all the guys out there. like I want everybody to feel like to to feel like there's hope in the process. i think I think it is hard. I think it is really tricky finding finding love these days, but I think it's possible. I think it's worth it.
02:06:07
Speaker
And i you know i I would like people people to out to feel that hope. Noah, it's amazing that you took the initiative to change your environment. I think a lot of people won't do that.
02:06:18
Speaker
And some some even can't necessarily because maybe the resource or whatever it could be. I was very lucky. um yeah Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I think that's what it comes down to. it's you know it's There's a good quote that i like I'll say a variation of it. it's like you know having ah It's kind like having love isn't everything. But the the quote was, having money isn't everything, but not having money everything.
02:06:41
Speaker
In the sense of, yeah, if you don't like money's not everything, but if you don't have any money, it sucks. So like having a relationship, it's not everything maybe. It's very important, I think. It's not everything, but not having any, it kind of sucks.
02:06:53
Speaker
Kind of sucks when you're doing stuff for years, you're putting in the effort, you're not getting results. And you know i would just wrap that point up with a quote. It's from Einstein, I believe, about insanity.
02:07:04
Speaker
It's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. So, you know, I remember I was in a bar in DC I was talking to this woman at the the bar and we were just talking. And this is when I was first starting to learn about a lot of this stuff.
02:07:20
Speaker
And she was just telling me, oh man, these guys and this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. Because I told her what I was getting into for work. I was like, I just get it. What should I do? i said, excuse me, do you understand what the common denominator in all of these examples you just told me are.
02:07:34
Speaker
She goes, no, no, I have no idea. It's you. Like it's you for God's sake, right? So, It's like have some self-awareness, have faith. And yeah, it's tough when you're not vibing with people. It's very tough.
02:07:48
Speaker
It's very tough. But every, the sun comes back again every other day. But be mindful. fight fight Advocate for yourself. Like Scott, like you did.
02:07:58
Speaker
ah San Francisco wasn't your vibe, whatever the reason might be. Got too many guys, whatever it is. Advocate for yourself. If you can't move new cities, create an ecosystem that is the life you want to live. And then once you create that, welcome that woman into the life. Because it's much better, instead of chasing the butterfly, water the garden.
02:08:18
Speaker
Sure. And i think I think if we start with that, we'd have ah we'd give ourselves a a decent chance at a good outcome. All right. Bruce, my friend, we could talk all all night, I suspect. But I think on that, we've got to wrap it up. Thank you so much for taking time, man. I've enjoyed this convo. And let's do it again sometime.
02:08:35
Speaker
Gotcha, man. All the best. Great questions, great insights. And let's see. ah Yeah, I mean, hopefully l LA will be more friendly to us all, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's goal. Thank you, man. Thank you so much.
02:08:46
Speaker
Okay, that was a long one. If you hung in there through all the way to the end here, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you so much to Bruce Da Silva for coming on the pod and talking about all kinds of stuff.
02:08:57
Speaker
um If you liked what you heard out of Bruce, go check out bruce-da-silva.com and look him up on YouTube, Instagram. Yeah, he's out there doing his own podcast.
02:09:10
Speaker
um I'll put the links in the show notes. Thank you, Bruce, for coming on, man. I really appreciate our conversation. And to all you folks who are listening, thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it. hope you got something good out of it.
02:09:21
Speaker
And as always, you can find me on Instagram, wishyouallthebestpod, and wishyouallthebestpod at gmail.com if you want to reach out. Thanks for listening. And until next time, ah yeah, take it easy.