Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Two Surrogacy Journeys, One Mother’s Story of Hope and Family | Whitney Kuhn Lawson’s Story
68 Plays5 days ago
In this moving episode, Whitney talks with Whitney Kuhn Lawson, who became a mom through two surrogacy journeys. After facing infertility due to a medical diagnosis, Whitney and her husband built their family with the help of two incredible surrogates — and formed bonds that went far beyond the births of their children. Her story is one of love, resilience, and the lasting connections that come from creating a family through surrogacy.
Recommended
Transcript
Whitney's Journey to Parenthood
00:00:00
Speaker
What happens when your path to parenthood involves not just one, but two different women carrying your children because your own body just can't? So i have a... um rare ah genetic disease called Cartagener's syndrome, which means all of my organs are reversed.
00:00:20
Speaker
Any organ you have two of, they're a little bit different. Think of me as a mirror image, right? So I have always known that it would be really difficult, if not impossible, to conceive naturally.
00:00:33
Speaker
But this story isn't about limitation. It's about what happens when courage and connection rewrite what's possible. You know, we did multiple rounds and transfers to me um Unfortunately, none of them took.
00:00:50
Speaker
ah My body just was... Like, it's ah it's a no for me. um so ah ah the doctor said, you know you can keep doing this to yourself or you can hire, ah you know, a gestational carrier, which I had never even heard that term. when IVF yeah failed again and again, Whitney turned to surrogacy.
00:01:15
Speaker
And what followed changed not just her life, but the lives of two other women and their families. I would not have... a family or two beautiful children without those incredibly selfless, ah amazing women.
00:01:37
Speaker
Amber and Debbie are, you know, just like it angels, like angels that, that walk amongst us. She's a mom of two, thanks to two separate surrogacy journeys with two incredible women.
00:01:53
Speaker
In this episode, Whitney shares what it feels like to walk through two surrogacy journeys, the heartbreak, the hope, and the humanity that makes it all possible. Whether you're an intended parent just beginning your path or simply curious about the heart behind surrogacy, this story will leave you feeling encouraged, grounded, and inspired.
00:02:13
Speaker
Who knew it could take more than two people to have a baby? I'm Whitney Hall, a two-time surrogate, now part of the team at Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions. And I've seen how life-changing this process can be when you feel informed, supported, and confident about your next step.
00:02:33
Speaker
Each week on Create a Happy Family, you'll hear real stories and expert insights from hopeful parents, surrogates, egg donors, and professionals, all to help you understand what it really takes to create a family in this way.
00:02:48
Speaker
Because at the heart of it all, we're creating happy families, one relationship at a time.
00:02:58
Speaker
I'm so excited that we get to just talk about you and your amazing just family building journey. So just to kind of kick right off, when you first began kind of exploring surrogacy as how you were going to grow your family,
00:03:15
Speaker
What did you picture how it might be like and maybe in what ways did the reality kind of, you know, surprise you or what was kind of maybe different about what that picture was versus when it actually got started?
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
Understanding Cartagener's Syndrome
00:03:33
Speaker
So, um, um, I guess just a little bit of a, uh, backstory yeah is, um, so i have a, um,
00:03:45
Speaker
rare ah genetic disease called Cartagener syndrome, which is, I'll just make it really short. And it just means all of my organs are reversed.
00:03:57
Speaker
So my heart's on my right side. Then like lungs, any organ you have two of, they're a little bit different. flip flo Think of me as a mirror image, right?
00:04:07
Speaker
So it primarily affects my pulmonary system um and my reproductive system. So I have always known that it would be really difficult, if not impossible, to conceive naturally.
00:04:21
Speaker
so um i And when my my husband, Mark, and i we weren't even engaged yet, but by ah firm, the PR firm at the time that i that i worked at, covered um ivf And so we went ahead and started the process. i It did not come as a surprise that it would be challenging, but um You know, we did multiple rounds um and transfers to me.
00:04:57
Speaker
um Unfortunately, none of them took. um So the doctor said, you know you can keep doing this to yourself or, you know, a gestational carrier, which I had never even heard that term. um And so i was like, well, what, what is that?
00:05:17
Speaker
And, oh, okay. It's a surrogate. um and so we had, you know, grade A embryos, but every time we would transfer to me, it wouldn't take.
00:05:28
Speaker
So that's when we decided to, to, to go down the surrogacy route. I have, you know, a number of girlfriends, um, who have done ivf or, you know, IUI and IVF and,
00:05:44
Speaker
But i I personally didn't know anyone that had have surrogate. So my, I'll use quotes because it's laughable, but my knowledge of of of surrogates um was either kim Kardashian. Sure. Or or that movie, um oh gosh, what was it? Baby Mama with Tina Fey and Amy Doher. Yeah.
00:06:12
Speaker
And I was just like, ah yeah, I don't, I mean, all right. Sure. You kind of came to the table. Yeah. You came to the table with that. And sure. When even knowing that, you know, just from very early on that carrying a child in kind of the, you know, quote, typical way was going to be challenging,
00:06:36
Speaker
what were kind of those feelings around, even as you guys were going through the IVF and it wasn't going how you were hoping, especially with such great embryos and kind of having all of that in your favor?
00:06:50
Speaker
So I think, um, you know, everyone is, everyone is different, right. To teach their own. and Um, that's what makes the world go round.
Emotional Support and Family Decisions
00:07:01
Speaker
but, um,
00:07:02
Speaker
you know, again, growing up, I knew that it would be difficult. And but I there was never um I never had a strong um desire to be a mom. um and There are, you know, ah so many of my girlfriends who like loved babysitting or, you know, any time a kid would be at the table they'd be like can we hold your baby and i'm like i'm good sure like i'm i'm good um and then i met my husband mark um we're both originally from texas um so funny go figure you have to move to yeah have to move to manhattan to meet a fellow texan but um once you know we became more and more serious and um
00:07:55
Speaker
I was like, oh, this actually is someone that was the the only person that I would want to have kids with.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He, he was, he was the one. So, um,
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. So as you were going through it, even though you kind of, it it hadn't necessarily been this lifelong, you know, dream of yours when it did become your dream, even knowing that it was going to be tough, was it still...
00:08:31
Speaker
Were you more pragmatic about it or was it still kind of like, oh gosh, I, this is, this is definitely still kind of getting at me, even though you knew medically speaking, it was going to be difficult.
00:08:45
Speaker
Uh, you know, no, I, I, no, i mean, I, I, I guess also if you, you know, growing up, I feel like I like grew up in a doctor's office. So I was kind of like, okay, yeah, this is just like another thing I got to do.
00:09:04
Speaker
um and you know, definitely, i mean, in my opinion, one of, if not the most important things that I need to do or that I want to do rather.
00:09:17
Speaker
um so, you know, i mean, the, the shots and the pills and the, you know, I mean, it is, it is, um, it's a, it's a, it's a rough road.
00:09:31
Speaker
um and you know, it's, it's, it's taxing in every sense of the word, you know, um physically, emotionally, financially, um you know, the the the IVF process is as hard on your body um and, you know, weight gain and mood swings, et cetera. But I,
00:09:56
Speaker
Like, as I said, Mark was definitely like the one, you know, to be like, okay, this is someone that I would, that I would, I could see us raising children together.
00:10:07
Speaker
um But I, I guess I really knew it when we, we we weren't. We weren't engaged yet, or maybe we had only been engaged for like a month or something. But when I started my first round and and we were in you know, 800 square foot apartment in New York City and I'm doping myself up on hormones, just being a crazy person. And he was there like for all of it.
00:10:39
Speaker
um And i was like, all right, well, If he's I mean if we're not even married and he's okay with me being just like this off the rails then like You know what what will We'll make it. it. Sure. There's no question. There's no question.
00:10:55
Speaker
So when it came to, okay, we've done this. we We've gone through the shots. We're, you know, losing our brains at this point. And this idea of surrogacy came to mind. You said your references were, you know, like Kim Kardashian and baby mama.
00:11:12
Speaker
How did you go from kind of that you no this is this is absolutely the road to our family?
Choosing the Right Surrogacy Agency
00:11:22
Speaker
Yeah. um Well, after, you know, so many transfers and not taking and then having to start from scratch, you know, then I looked into –
00:11:39
Speaker
Gosh, I mean, a number of agencies agencies um and, you know, did and initial phone calls with probably eight, if not 10. mean, it was pretty taxing and, you know, just getting price points and seeing who you, you know, like mesh or vibe with, you know? Sure. then we were down to two agencies and then um at the time it was surrogate solutions. We, i mean, I especially really loved
00:12:22
Speaker
um the fact that all of the women who and worked there had been surrogates, uh,
00:12:36
Speaker
um and so it was in my eyes, there wouldn't have been ah scenario that would pop up where like someone on the team wouldn't have already faced it or dealt with it with another client or something like that. So it was just a, for me, a big yeah ah sense of like relief and um it just kind of felt like nice and sweet and like Katie is great. um and
00:13:13
Speaker
yeah, so we decided to to move forward and, you know, it's, It's definitely easily, you know, the best decision that that we've ever made um because, you know, we ended up with two great children. But, you know, it was definitely a, you know, a four-plus-year road getting there.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. yeah You were in a doctor's office, right, growing up. You're like, okay, this is just one step. And you kind of have, like, your checklist. And, again, kind of that pragmatic mind. When you kind of finally got down to the emotional aspect of it, what did it feel like to really place that trust in another woman to carry, you know, your child, not once, but twice, um and in two different women?
00:14:09
Speaker
but We, you know, you all, what you fell out a a profile kind of like, you know, an online, what I would imagine is, you know, akin to dating profile. Right.
00:14:22
Speaker
And, um, we matched, um, with Amber and her husband, Ryan, and, you know, their three kids and we like instantly clicked.
00:14:36
Speaker
the only reservation that we honestly had was that, and you know, I wanted to be as involved as I could be.
00:14:47
Speaker
um and she lived um yeah in Florida. So that was like our only kind of deterrent, if you will.
00:14:59
Speaker
um But other than that, I mean, it was, you know, she, we talk and text and FaceTime and You know she came out to her and Ryan came out to visit. like They came to Houston. um and Mark and I, for like the big appointments, you know, like 20 weeks, et cetera, we would go to Florida. um And we would always, you know, go out to dinner with like, you know, them and their kids. And um it was just, ah you know, a great experience.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah. And definitely not the maybe the baby mama experience. Yeah. no thank yeah no no thank God. Yeah. I mean, we we hit it off from the first, like our first call.
00:15:54
Speaker
So um it was just, it was really great. I love that you say you matched as a family because I think that is just so important, like such an important aspect of this journey as a whole is that it is, it's not just, you know, surrogate and intended mom or surrogate and intended parents or, you know, that kind of thing. It really is ah family affair. It's, you know, yeah her, her partner and kids that are part of this and,
00:16:26
Speaker
you know, y'all and your extended family and, you know, all of these people cheering you on. And i mean, it is, it's a, it's a, it's linking families for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. So, you know, anytime we went to Florida, um, we always did something with their three kids.
00:16:46
Speaker
Um, once Patton was, he was born, um, January, 2020, But I mean, I went and got like a birthday cake and little like ah hats and stuff so that her kids could come up and we could have like a birthday party for Pat. um So it's definitely, you know, and his his parents were there.
00:17:12
Speaker
ah that they They live in, they're Florida based as well. ah But, you know, I mean, her family, like I will FaceTime with and we're, you know, friends on social media. And so, I mean, it's definitely a merging of families. So, um but yeah, I mean, we had a birthday party, you know, with cake in the hospital room, you know, and wheeled Patton in. And so her kids could meet him and, know,
00:17:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was, i mean, it was just great. I love that. How did it feel after having that experience and then now you have your own base of knowledge, how did it feel doing this again ah second time?
Navigating the Second Surrogacy Process
00:18:08
Speaker
So more nervous than,
00:18:14
Speaker
i was more nervous going in to the the second time that I was the first, which and people might think is a little bit odd, but I had such a good relationship and experience,
00:18:35
Speaker
et cetera, with, with Amber and her family and and our family.
00:18:42
Speaker
that I was like, well, this is, but like Amber's my person, you know, like I don't, yeah you know, and she had a few complications following the delivery. um And so And it, it, she would not be medically cleared to, to, to do it again. Right. And so i was like, well, no, like now what am going to But you're supposed to do them both, you know? And so
00:19:13
Speaker
um
00:19:17
Speaker
that was definitely a bummer. um I mean, that's I don't have like a better way to explain it, but it was it was it was really upsetting, like for for both of us because we were like, you know, we so you know totally hit it off. And it's like, OK, we're going to do we're going to do this. We're in it for the long haul. Egg donor and surrogate solutions, um they like really work in lockstep with you big time.
00:19:49
Speaker
Like I could call or text my like their Lauren or Christina, like my like go to people um or even Katie. um And I'm sure they just thought I was completely unhinged, which i which I was at times. But, um you know, I could call or text or email and one of them, if not, or and like Gail, and they would all like, you know, instantly reply. And I knew that I wanted to, you know, one, we had this other embryo and I wanted to have, ah you know, give my child a ah sibling.
00:20:30
Speaker
Um, and so I said, you know, matching process can be lengthy. Right. Um, and, uh, I said, you know, just toss our, our name in the ring.
00:20:46
Speaker
cause we, we do know we want to like have another kid and would prefer like, you know, We're not getting any younger. So let's, you know, just start the process.
00:20:57
Speaker
And I want to say I don't even think it was a month actually. When I got a call saying, hey, we have a woman that we think would be great.
00:21:10
Speaker
And she is in like outside of Houston, um like a suburb. And i was like, well, I was not expecting this phone call.
00:21:22
Speaker
Sure. so So soon, but okay. i mean, if obviously, you know, you, I trust these people, like look at what they were able to just, you know, connect me with. And now, you know I wouldn't have, you know, patent without, you know, this agency. And yeah they always say like,
00:21:48
Speaker
Oh, it, you know, it takes, you know, it takes a village to raise a child, which is, which is true. um But ah like on the same, on the same token, you know, it can take a village to even have like have a child, not raise one just to like produce it.
00:22:08
Speaker
Right. Um, so anyway, so the agency, um, you know, they paired us and we, you know, met with them on zoom. And again, like, uh, you have to put into context ah timing of this because so Patton was born January, 2020.
00:22:34
Speaker
you know, in the world basically shut down March 2020. Right. right So I want to say we got this call and maybe, a I don't know, I'd have to go back and look like April or May.
00:22:47
Speaker
um and then by maybe June, July, something, you know, like all of the testing, you know, and evaluations, et cetera, has to occur. So, you know, it it it is a process.
00:23:02
Speaker
um But yeah, we were like, okay, well, everything's checked off. So um yeah, I mean, Debbie, um you know, is here in Houston. So i was really excited about that because then I could, ah you know, I could be more present.
00:23:25
Speaker
but it was COVID, so I actually couldn't. um um So it was kind of same-ish.
00:23:37
Speaker
Actually, I was i was allowed it less with Debbie than I was hey with Amber, just given all of the you know the protocols that were in place at the time.
00:23:50
Speaker
So Wheezy was born of 2021. in june of twenty twenty one Um, and the OBGYN was just incredible.
Welcoming Wheezy: A New Addition to the Family
00:24:05
Speaker
Um, she had delivered, um Debbie's two daughters and she was like, I'm going to just let you know, this is going to be probably the easiest to live. Like ah the OB b was like in my like 20 plus years of practice, I've never seen anyone like deliver a kid like this.
00:24:23
Speaker
Um, and so i was like, okay. um And we had talked, you know, and like, you know, here and there and also like via zoom and stuff. um I said, you know, well, Patton was C-section. So, you know, you're,
00:24:38
Speaker
The experience was just totally different. Yeah, totally different. And so, you know, I was seated like behind the tarp, you know. um And then with Wheezy, um i said, you know, as long as like everything's going well and, you know, stats are good and whatever, um I would love to deliver Wheezy.
00:25:02
Speaker
And she said, sure. So um ah Debbie, um she said, but I will tell you, when when Debbie, like, gets her feet in these stirrups, like, you' y'all's daughter's going to be here the kitty split.
00:25:21
Speaker
And i was kind like, yeah, yeah, yeah, And um she was not lying because i I went, I scrubbed in Debbie pushed three times and Weezy, I pulled Weezy out.
00:25:41
Speaker
like put Wheezy on Debbie's belly. ah My husband and my husband, Mark, and Debbie's husband, Jeff, I was like, don't you want to see it? And Jeff was like, I've seen it, I'm good. and my husband, Mark, was like, I'm also good. Like, we're good back here. Like, we'll like, you know, like give her a shoulder pat or like, you know, hold her hand or like give her some ice chips or something if she needs it.
00:26:09
Speaker
um ah but so the, literally the entire birth video of me delivering Wheezy is 30 seconds. Oh my gosh, I'm sure. Yeah.
00:26:20
Speaker
That's amazing. And it was awesome. And so, and you know, you know, Mark got to cut the cord and um, you know, and, and Debbie is, you know, up walking around, um, like no problem.
00:26:38
Speaker
that it was it was wild to witness. um You know, because also, you know, but I've only seen, like, the movies, right? And so I'm expecting this, like, you know, screaming and all of this, you know, whatever. And she literally, like, made no noise, like, pushed three times, and Wheezy was there. And then that night, like, she walked down to our room, and we had a pizza party.
00:27:08
Speaker
Like me, Mark, Jeff, her husband, and Debbie, we ordered ah Papa John's. And had a pizza party. That's amazing. yeah We'll get right back to the show.
00:27:20
Speaker
But real quick, if you're dreaming of growing your family through egg donation or surrogacy, we'd love to help. At Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions, we've spent 18 years guiding hopeful parents with compassion, expertise, and personal experience.
00:27:35
Speaker
Our team includes people who have been intended parents, surrogates, egg donors, and even nurses. So when we say we understand, we truly do. You can schedule a free 15-minute call with our team at createahappyfamily.com to get your questions answered and explore your next steps.
00:27:52
Speaker
You don't have to navigate this journey alone. We're here to walk it with you. All right. Let's get back to the show. Yeah. But I love this so much that it went from how your vision of just this this process, this journey went from, you know, People Magazine headlines to, oh my gosh, I can't imagine this any other way.
00:28:17
Speaker
oh wow, my world, our family just got a little bit bigger with, you know, another amazing family to help us grow our family. And, you know, just again, that progression of those different relationships.
00:28:34
Speaker
How did you kind of navigate, you know I think you have a lot of intended parents who are maybe worried about communication or, you know like you said, you you kind of the second time you went in a little more nervous because you had had kind of your experience in a little bit. right There was a bit of ignorance is bliss.
00:28:53
Speaker
And then now it was like, oh, i kind of I have more experience with what this could be and how this could go. and then to have that experience now, how did you kind of grapple between just all of those, all of those things at play while you had a you know, pandemic going on and, you know, a newborn, like you've got a lot going on all at once.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was definitely, I mean, I, there's no way sugarcoat it. I mean, it was, it was a lot, you know, and I'm very, ah trying, um, but Really, i mean, both Amber and Debbie, I won't get emotional, but would not have ah family or two beautiful children without those two incredibly selfless, amazing women.
00:30:02
Speaker
And yeah, um I mean, you know, so and it's, it's, it was, it was, it's just been like a huge, huge blessing and we keep in touch and you know, having and like the birthday party, you know, with Patton um was hilarious, you know, because it was like his parents and,
00:30:26
Speaker
uh, you know, all three of her kids and, um, True party. Yeah. Yeah, it was a, yeah, it was a party. um and, um And then, and then you know, Debbie was obviously different because it was, you know, COVID and protocol, especially hospital-wise. And, right you know, rightfully so at the time, you know, was ah really tight.
00:30:55
Speaker
So her kids, they came over, want to say, when Wheezy was like, I don't know, a couple weeks old, maybe a month old. the Um, and we had like a play date. I mean, I don't know how much you can play if you're like, you know, newborn. So was important to me that the kids and they, they, they varied in age, right?
00:31:29
Speaker
So that the kids, at least to the best of our collective ability, felt like they were a part of it. Like they, you know, the little birthday party or, you know, all of them came over for a play date.
00:31:46
Speaker
They were all here for Wheezy's first birthday. Like, so they just understood or you know, help them understand. And so to me, that was important that felt like they were ah ah part of the journey, you know?
00:32:07
Speaker
And so when I would send both like little like gifts, you know, like socks and robes and you know, whatever would always like send the kids, which I'm sure looking back on it,
00:32:19
Speaker
And even now as my kids are five and a half and four, like now I'm like, I probably would be just cussing me out because I sent like, you know, fruit roll ups and like, you know, all this like stuff that, you know, I mean, the great stuff, the amazing snacks that I was like, oh yeah, I'll do that. And like, you know.
00:32:38
Speaker
A slime kid, you know, things that I was like, oh, that's fun. Add to cart, send it to Florida, like send it off to Debbie. I'm never going to see that again. but you know, so, um but yeah, not to that.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, I love the fact, again, that you, it was so important for you and your heart was so big that it was a invitation to the whole family this is a whole family experience it is and or was and still is for us yeah at least um but you know there are are plenty of you know surrogacy journeys that look very different you know or they've
00:33:33
Speaker
It's more transactional, more of, you know, a business deal. I mean, again, you know, it it it is a business deal. I mean, there are lawyers involved. You're, you know what I mean? It it it is it's a contract and it's, you know, but, um and so there are plenty of people that, you You know, that's when that baby comes out, you know, it is.
00:34:01
Speaker
And then that's, that's it. And I think that is so, I think that's what makes the matching process so important and having kind of that honest conversation with yourself.
00:34:12
Speaker
as far as if you're coming to the table, what is it that you do want? What is that vision? And let's have that conversation and let's match you accordingly. Because you're exactly right. every Every relationship is different and you can't compare the two. Right. I think you do have, you know, some intended parents who, you know, kind of worry, like, what if my relationship with my surrogate doesn't look like someone else's?
00:34:37
Speaker
And so- and And well, the answer to that is- It won't. not yeah if they None of them will look, none of them will look the same. even ah Even if you use the same surrogate twice in it'll be a different journey each time, you know? So, i mean that's something that obviously i learned and can say, you know, have having done that. um But it's always,
00:35:08
Speaker
it's going to be different. And I just, and Mark and I, and, you know, my in-laws and sister-in-laws and ah my parents, and, you know, we're just so
00:35:26
Speaker
appreciative and, you know, lucky to to have them. I mean, we've, you know, we literally just say like that Amber and Debbie are, you know, just like it angels, like angels that that walk amongst us, you know?
00:35:46
Speaker
That's a beautiful way to put
Lessons in Gratitude and Paying it Forward
00:35:48
Speaker
it. what What did each of those relationships teach you? Hmm.
00:36:02
Speaker
What did each of them ah teach me? ah Well, i I'm a big believer and always paying it forward in whatever capacity I can.
00:36:16
Speaker
um and so to me, i think, you know, carrying someone else's child and giving them you know, the opportunity that they, that they would not have with, you know, without you um is probably is the largest, like paying it forward as it gets.
00:36:43
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. I mean, they, they have made it possible for me to do, you know for not only me, but Mark and, you know, everyone that,
00:36:57
Speaker
we, ah you know, are families, extended families and, Patton and Weezy's, you know, friends, et cetera. Like, uh, none of this, you know, the pictures on the wall and, you know, it would, it what wouldn't exist, um, without them.
00:37:15
Speaker
So I think just, you know, like the, the paying it forward um, and, um, um and ah
00:37:29
Speaker
You know, ah there's there's a there's a lot of bad world, right? um And it just seems like it just continues to get increasingly with each day or even like moment. You know, you scroll and you... having experiences was so...
00:37:54
Speaker
experiences that i was so lucky and afforded to experience with, with both of those women, um like showed me how much good there is in the world.
00:38:11
Speaker
Um, which sounds kind of cheesy, but, um, you know, I mean, it's, it's a big decision. and again, like they don't have any, ah you know, loyalty to me, um, you know, to carry, and You know, it's such a ah big, it's the best gift, right? that The two best gifts that I will ever receive. if ah um And so it's, yeah, it's hard to like put into words, but it's but like the the most beautiful, don't most beautiful thing I could like ever ask for.
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. i think, again, one of my takeaways that I hear from you as you're talking about all of the experiences is every way that you celebrated this journey and celebrated them and y'all all together, how your extended family, you know, was in on it and everything.
00:39:21
Speaker
And I love that you make a point to... you know, kind of teach Patton and Wheezy, you know, just their birth story and where they came from and how you celebrate, you know, that as you, grow as they grow up. and yeah Yeah. And I mean, and like they are way too young, you know, to even understand,
00:39:47
Speaker
um And, you know, um and so we haven't like sat them down, um but we're like, oh, you know, this is Aunt Amber and this is Aunt Debbie.
00:39:59
Speaker
But it's like, yeah, well, we have a million aunts or, you know what I mean? Sure, sure. So, um you know, and ah but, but um yeah, I mean, as they, I i think it was Patton's maybe like a year, or ah year ago said um, cause our going up our staircase, we have all family photos like wedding to, you know, newborn photos, cetera. And, um, along our, our staircase and, um, Patton.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah. I was fine like, how, where are the pictures of me and your belly?
00:40:51
Speaker
which, like, of course, totally threw me off, you know, and I just wasn't prepared for it. and and i And I said, oh, well, you know, you know how mommy has, you know, a bad cough.
00:41:06
Speaker
And so I said, you know, how mommy is sick and mommy has that cough. And I was like, you know, well mommy's belly, you know, was broken, but you know, her her friend, you know, Aunt Amber, you know, she helped me. And so she had you.
00:41:25
Speaker
and I was waiting for this whole, like, well, and how did that happen? but bla bla but And then it was literally like um something like, can you get, okay, can you get, ah and i like, off to the next? And I was like, sure.
00:41:41
Speaker
but okay I was like, oh my God, I was like, so not like ah but prepared for that, you know, but ah um you know, and you know, when the, when the,
00:41:53
Speaker
I mean, there's pictures of Debbie and Amber, you know, around our house and we talk about them and, you know, I text them here and there and we'll FaceTime on birthdays and stuff. But, you know, i mean, they're still little. So yeah yeah we'll kind of, we'll cross that when went when when we need to. Yeah, for sure.
00:42:16
Speaker
For sure. But again, I love how... in in our minds, we think it's this huge thing and, oh my gosh, what is going to be the after effects? And then it's just, oh, okay, moving on.
00:42:29
Speaker
Right, right. It's just this, it's just information. Yeah, yeah. It was basically, I was like, oh, okay, Whitney, and like you're in PR, you're quick on your feet. And I was just like, okay, yeah, like I got to get my talking points in a row for like,
00:42:44
Speaker
When he does have, you know, or or when they both have, you know. Some follow-up questions. some Some follow-up questions. Yeah, yeah. jar Sure, sure. For, you know, just a hopeful parent listening right now, maybe feeling nervous about getting started with
Advice for Future Intended Parents
00:43:05
Speaker
the journey. Or maybe, you know, a parent who's done this and can't imagine, you know, doing, growing their family with someone else.
00:43:15
Speaker
what maybe words of encouragement or advice would you give them? um I would say,
00:43:27
Speaker
and again, this is just my guidance. um I would say really have like an open mind and an open ah heart because every, I mean, every individual is different, but especially growing and individual, a little person, you know, and, and um it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be different and there will be, you know, high highs and, and low lows, you know, um I had a number of failed transfers. um
00:44:08
Speaker
We had, you know, with am when we transferred with Amber is the last, embryo that we had and it did not take it. So I had to start from scratch for the third time.
00:44:21
Speaker
um And so it's everybody's story is is going to be different. But i mean, not to put the pressure on the medical community, but i mean, the ah the the science and the data and what is capable in the, in this world the of you know, infertility, just blows my mind. And, you know, ah it all it only continues to advance.
00:45:00
Speaker
Um, and so ah you feel like, you know, okay, I've done IUI I've done IVF and it doesn't work. And so i really don't want, you know,
00:45:13
Speaker
you know, surrogate, it just, I would say, you know, if, if your, if your bottom line is that you want a child, right? Right.
00:45:29
Speaker
Um, and I obviously very highly recommend using a reputable agency. um I mean, look, you can find a surrogate on like Craigslist.
00:45:42
Speaker
I'm sure haven't, I would, that's not my guidance, so but you know, i mean, uh, you know, um,
00:45:53
Speaker
It's just, it's, you're gonna have highs, you're gonna have lows. And ah when I first heard, and you know, the word journey, i thought it was like, so hokey.
00:46:06
Speaker
um but it's true. i mean, it really is a journey. Um, you know, know what um, and for, for, you know, for Amber, like she, she was in Florida.
00:46:19
Speaker
And that that was like almost a deal breaker to us. and Mark and I say all the time, like, can you even imagine if we like, you know, because we wanted someone in state,
00:46:36
Speaker
One, so like ah we could be there at appointments and be more present. And two, obviously it's, um, you know, little cheaper, not to you know?
00:46:47
Speaker
um and so, um, but it's like, God, like I would have missed out on Amber and Ryan and her, you know, three amazing children and,
00:46:59
Speaker
ah You know, and and and the same is true with, you know, Debbie and Jeff and and their are kids. um so ah again, it's not, you know, luckily, and I guess, you know, medically and scientifically, we're were in a world where, you know,
00:47:21
Speaker
there are there are a ton of ways in which you become a parent. And um I got the question um pretty frequently, which was like, you know, well, what if, you know, the surrogate decides to keep the baby? Or what if, you know, or what if, you know,
00:47:42
Speaker
Right. And so it's like, well, legally, you know, like they can't. Right. Not a thing. Right. um It is it is, ah you know, very significant legal contractual process.
00:47:57
Speaker
um But, you know, or, you know, ah yeah. Do you do you think like you're going to click with your kid, you know, ah because you haven't had them, you know,
00:48:11
Speaker
kick or hiccup or, you know, ah you haven't experienced that. and at at least for me, i mean, I was like this with, with, with both kids, like instantly.
00:48:28
Speaker
um but you know, on the same hand, I have good girlfriends who, you know, birth their own kids, their, you know, their own children. And and took a while for them to to, kind of bond. So I just like, give yourself a lot of grace.
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and again, that keep an open mind. Yeah. And keep an open heart. Right. Right. That's yeah. That would be my, my two cents.
00:48:57
Speaker
Yeah. And the good news, I don't know if it's a selling point, but
00:49:04
Speaker
It was quite fun because i was not pregnant. ah You know, you know, I flew them, I flew Amber in for and the shower and also for Wheezy's.
00:49:23
Speaker
um And so, and you know, it was hilarious because I have picture of the four of us. Me, Debbie, and Amber. And then Patton is probably, you know, I mean, a year and a couple months old. and he's touching Debbie's belly. yeah And, but Amber and i had been like slamming champagne together at Weezy's, at Weezy's baby shower. Cause obviously Debbie couldn't cause she was pregnant with Weezy.
00:49:56
Speaker
ah Anyway. And so it was just, it was, um you know, there's, there's no, there's no one right way to, to do something at which I just, I, and I feel like that is true. And,
00:50:15
Speaker
so many like different ways in this world that, you know, yes, it is gut-wrenching, heartbreaking at times, but, you know, all of the shots and tears and weight gain and, you know, financial stress literally like all went away.
00:50:44
Speaker
ah you know, January 17th, 2020, as soon as I held patent.
00:50:54
Speaker
And the same is true I, excuse me, delivered Wheezy June 4th, 2021. So it is, it's a process and it's hard. It's really, it's difficult, but um you will get there.
00:51:10
Speaker
And it is, hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but you'll you'll get there and all of the shit that you went through to get there um ah when you have that you know your kid in your arms it just makes it all worth it absolutely a hundred percent no you are so right Winnie, thank you so much for just your vulnerability and, you know, just all of those just words of wisdom and, you know, getting to be at the light at the end of that tunnel. And, you know, I'm just I'm so I'm so grateful and appreciative.
00:51:49
Speaker
that you were willing to tell your story. I have one last question for you and it's a fun one. So you've seen me this whole time sipping on my cup of coffee. um i don't i It's probably an embarrassing number of cups of coffee that I've had today, but I always love- Oh, I'm jealous.
The Joys of Surrogacy
00:52:07
Speaker
I've only had one and I'm like- Oh, I'm like fiending, you know? Yeah, no, we've got to get to it for sure. yeah.
00:52:15
Speaker
But I love to ask the question, what filled your cup today? Literally or figuratively, what has been the thing that has filled your cup?
00:52:27
Speaker
Okay, so Whitney, i am not a crier. You have now made me cry
00:52:34
Speaker
Two, maybe three times. I mean, I'm very, you know, I'm i'm very, ah it's black and white. You either like me or you don't. There's no, and what you see is what you get.
00:52:46
Speaker
um But I will say, my my mark Mark, my husband, is out of town um for work last night. And so why i would say filled my cup today kids both kids tend to come into our bed um anywhere between like three and five at 30 every night almost um which again teach their own but um you know i i woke up this morning with them on on each of my like
00:53:28
Speaker
you know, in my arms. um and I knew that I had, you know, this, you know, this, this podcast today. and I was just like, wow, i can't believe like, how incredibly blessed and lucky i am to like have this life that i never like thought was possible. Like, and that I mean, this is, you know,
00:53:59
Speaker
7 23 Look at them. oh um And so, you know, and we we woke up and, you know, daddy wasn't here.
00:54:12
Speaker
So we had ah milk and cookies. I drop love it. For breakfast. love it. Usually they're in a uniform, but today is they Friday's. They get free dress.
00:54:24
Speaker
And Wheezy picked out like this cute outfit. um and they, now that Patton's in kindergarten, it's his responsibility to walk Wheezy into her classroom.
00:54:39
Speaker
So, and they walked in hand in hand. And I was just like, here we are. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love it.
00:54:50
Speaker
That's like the best three musketeers breakfast I've ever heard of. Right. Right. I mean, it's a dream. It's a dream realized and you're watching it, you know, just right, right in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's amazing.
00:55:02
Speaker
Well, again, thank you so much. And, uh, I'm just, I'm so happy that we And I will say, like, I i mean, i know, obviously, the you know, y'all are ah great resources, but i do i am an open book. And so, you know, if there's.
00:55:22
Speaker
Anybody out out there that has questions or, but you know, wants to chat. Um, there were two women, um, who I actually have never met in person, but they, ah one was in um, uh, Alabama and one is in Texas.
00:55:43
Speaker
And it was like friend of a friend of a friend of a friend. Right. And those two women. were so instrumental and helpful when I was first starting out.
00:55:58
Speaker
um and so, and I mean, they must've, you know, allocated four, six, eight hours of their lives, like talking to me through things.
00:56:10
Speaker
And so I, I guess kind of similarly, like always paying it forward, like Feel free, like give my email out. I'm happy to, you know, be a resource or,
00:56:26
Speaker
you know, anything because i mean, ah it's, it's challenging, but, and you'll, and you'll need, you'll need people that have walked those, walked in those shoes.
00:56:41
Speaker
Um, your spouse is obviously, you know, or a partner and family or, and friends are, are fantastic. Um, also you like he said and in God.
00:56:54
Speaker
um but to be able to call someone or just shoot them a quick text like, hey, this happened or, you know, and for them to have, you know, already walked to the walk, you know, it is is really helpful. So if I can, if I can do what the Alabama and Texas woman, you know, did for me, i would do, i would do for anyone. So, yeah.
00:57:23
Speaker
So yeah, i love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being a resource. You're welcome. is It is so important to have people, you do have that support, like you said, with your family or your friends. Um, but it is so nice to have that unique support of another person who has been on this journey before. Exactly. Exactly.
00:57:45
Speaker
Thank you so much, Whitney. I'm again, thank you. You're welcome.