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Inside the Lab: How Embryologists Help Create Families
77 Plays1 month ago
Ever wonder what happens to your eggs after retrieval? Or what those mysterious embryo grades actually mean? In this eye-opening episode, Whitney sits down with Lucille Little, a traveling embryologist with nearly a decade of experience in human IVF, to break down the behind-the-scenes science of fertility treatment.
Lucille has worked in top labs across the country and brings a unique blend of expertise and clarity to a topic that often feels overwhelming. Together, they dive into the step-by-step process that happens inside the lab—from fertilization and embryo development to grading, genetic testing, freezing, and beyond.
Whether you’re an intended parent, surrogate, egg donor, or just fertility-curious, you’ll walk away from this episode with a clearer understanding of:
-What embryologists actually do
-How embryos are graded and why it matters
-Common myths and misconceptions about embryo quality
-The role of the lab in IVF success rates
-What to ask your clinic about embryo care and storage
Lucille’s passion for helping people build families is contagious, and her insights are a must-hear for anyone navigating IVF or third-party reproduction.
🎧 Listen now to demystify the lab side of IVF—and feel empowered with the knowledge you deserve.
Recommended
Transcript
The Crucial Role of Embryologists
00:00:00
Speaker
Us embryologists, we are kind of kind kind of unseen ah force behind, you know, getting you that baby that you've always wanted. We are in the background. We're pretty silent.
00:00:14
Speaker
Nobody really ever remembers their embryologist. They remember their doctors. They remember their nurses. They remember their sonographers. um But we are kind of just in the background, making sure that your embryo is living in the most perfect environment it can be in.
00:00:31
Speaker
You don't see them, but behind every successful IVF cycle is a team of embryologists quietly doing the work that makes new life possible. Today, we're going inside the lab to meet one of them.
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm joined by Lucille Little, an embryologist who's been working in human IVF since 2016. And yes, human IVF, because she actually studied animal science before making the leap to helping people grow their families.
00:00:57
Speaker
Lucille got her start at DFW Fertility Associates and now travels all over the country as a contract embryologist, stepping in to support clinics wherever she's needed. The embryology lab is definitely a very important factor whenever you're choosing which clinic you want to pursue this, you know, relationship with, because you're going to be with them for a while.
The Impact of Lab Quality on IVF Success
00:01:20
Speaker
You could have a great stimulation process with your doctor, but if that, you know, if a lab just does not have... good quality practices, it can be very detrimental to your embryo development. In this conversation, Lucille pulls back the curtain on what happens after egg retrieval, breaking down fertilization, embryo grading, genetic testing, and why what happens inside the lab can make all the difference.
00:01:45
Speaker
There are so many other factors that go into, you know, making a baby. It's a team sport. It's a team of sport. Lucille is equal parts brilliant and approachable, and she makes even the most technical parts of IVF feel easy to understand.
00:02:00
Speaker
If you're ready to see what really happens behind those lab doors, this one's for you. Enjoy. Who knew it could take more than two people to have a baby? I'm Whitney Hall, a two-time surrogate, now part of the team at Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions.
00:02:16
Speaker
And I've seen how life-changing this process can be when you feel informed, supported, and confident about your next step.
Stories from the IVF Journey
00:02:25
Speaker
Each week on Create a Happy Family, you'll hear real stories and expert insights from hopeful parents, surrogates, egg donors, and professionals, all to help you understand what it really takes to create a family in this way.
00:02:40
Speaker
Because at the heart of it all, we're creating happy families, one relationship at a time.
00:02:51
Speaker
Okay, Lucille, thank you so much for giving your time to be here. I want to just jump right in. You are an embryologist, but you are clinic based and a traveling embryologist. What does that even I didn't even know that was a thing. What does that mean?
00:03:09
Speaker
So yeah, a lot of times I just kind of compare it to a traveling nurse, but usually we have shorter stents of time. So I started out back when I graduated college in 2016, working for a clinic in Dallas um and worked there until 2022 and...
00:03:29
Speaker
My now husband at the time, we had bought a house. And unfortunately, that house does not exist anywhere close to a clinic. so the kind of yes um the only other option was kind of starting traveling per diem embryology, which has been a thing ah for a while. So basically, um I kind of farm myself out to clinics that need a little extra help in regards to could it be they have a bunch of junior embryologists that just need some extra training while i'm there so while they're training the embryologist i'm doing all of the heavy duty stuff like the embryo biopsy the icsys stuff that they just haven't gotten trained on yet or i go to clinics where they do batching cycles so for two weeks each month they do all of their retrievals and all of their transfers so
00:04:22
Speaker
I'll go in and we'll have, you know, 10 to 15 retrievals where they need just some extra help. um Or it's a clinic that just doesn't have an embryologist and i am kind of their go-to travel embryologist and I go in and do the batching and then I go home.
00:04:37
Speaker
So that's. Yeah. why No, that makes a ton of sense. So let's let's go back even further. how like When people hear the word embryologist and many just aren't sure what you actually do, how do you describe the role to someone who's kind of outside of the fertility world?
Ensuring Optimal Conditions for Embryos
00:05:00
Speaker
So yeah, us embryologists, we are kind of the kind of unseen ah force behind, you know, getting you that baby that you've always wanted. We are in the background. We're pretty silent.
00:05:15
Speaker
Nobody really ever remembers their embryologist. They remember their doctors. They remember their nurses. They remember their sonographers. um But we are kind of just in the background. making sure that your embryo is living in the most perfect environment it can be in because our job is to basically mimic the woman's uterus. So we're, you know, we're coming in in the mornings, we're doing our um air quality, our quality control preps, temperature checks, um everything like that. And we're just, um our role is basically to just, you know,
00:05:52
Speaker
provide an environment for your embryo, your eggs to thrive and give you the highest possibility of a pregnancy and a live birth outcome. Yeah, for sure.
00:06:04
Speaker
It's interesting. you You mentioned how, you know, everybody remembers, you know, their doctor and their stenographers and their nurses and all of those things. I think, you know, when when we hear a patient talking about, you know, choosing the right doctor and thinking about the clinic and, you know, all of that, they don't mention the lab or embryologist's So how do you feel, how should the lab factor into, you know, the patient making a decision to work with a certain clinic or doctor?
00:06:34
Speaker
Oh, I, that's a very, I think that's a big portion. The embryology lab is definitely a very important factor whenever you're choosing which clinic you want to pursue this, you know, relationship with, because you're going to be with them for a while. It's not a, you know, come in short.
00:06:53
Speaker
We're going to be pregnant within a week or something. So you're, you want to develop a good relationship with them. um But I kind of, um If I was a patient, I would want to ask my doctor, my reproductive endocrinologist, you know, does the lab have ah high um HEPA air filtration system?
00:07:12
Speaker
um What kind of practices, quality control practices do you guys use? Do you use um electronic witnessing? you have double checks? These are all things, you know, that I would consider...
00:07:27
Speaker
asking my doctor about before choosing a clinic because you could have a great stimulation process with your doctor. But if that, you know, if a lab just does not have good quality practices, um it can be very detrimental to your embryo development and just your overall chances of getting pregnant and things like that.
00:07:48
Speaker
Sure, sure. So, okay, you used a lot of, you know, just beautiful big words um that, you know, within within the industry, where, you know, one, what are what are maybe some of those things mean? How important are they?
00:08:02
Speaker
And what would be, i mean, where would somebody find, you know, just determine lab effectiveness?
Evaluating Lab Effectiveness and Success Rates
00:08:10
Speaker
And, you know, how accurate is that current data?
00:08:13
Speaker
And, you know, what exactly would somebody be looking for in particular? Yeah. Yes. I mean, I would want my doctor to be a board certified reproductive endocrinologist. I'd start there, but then each clinic should report to something that we call SART, which is basically Society of Reproductive Technologies. And you can find it online, um,
00:08:35
Speaker
Any, in my opinion, reputable good clinic should be reporting their data to SART. So their pregnancy outcomes, their, um you know, just implantation rates, just kind of patient breakdowns and things like that. They should be reporting for anybody who is looking for a doctor to be able to find um because, you know, you could have somebody say, yeah, I went to them and it was a really good experience, but they could be the ideal, you know,
00:09:04
Speaker
30 year old patient where nothing should go wrong and you should get pregnant easily. Whereas you want to see kind of what the pregnancy rates are for maybe a 35 year old or somebody who might have diminished ovarian reserve, things like that. So society of assisted reproductive technologies is a good place to start for sure. They'll show you the clinic breakdowns and things like that.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's perfect. That's so helpful.
00:09:34
Speaker
It takes more than love to create a family. It takes compassion, courage, and connection. At Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions, we've spent more than 18 years helping hopeful parents, surrogates, and egg donors create happy families through egg donation and surrogacy, one relationship at a time.
00:09:52
Speaker
Our team has been there. Many of us are former surrogates, egg donors, and intended parents. So we truly understand this journey. If you're ready to take the next step, visit createahappyfamily.com to apply today.
Monitoring Embryo Development
00:10:06
Speaker
All right, let's get back to the show. So we
00:10:12
Speaker
when you as an embryologist, you know, the We have those embryos. We've just we've just had our our egg retrieval. um you know we're We're getting everything together. what in those first few days after fertilization, what are you looking for as that embryo is developing?
00:10:34
Speaker
So yes, we had our egg retrieval. We did our implantation. We have fertilization. So now kind of a lot of clinics have stepped away from doing like daily checks or day three checks just because Our technologies have gotten much better to where we shouldn't really be having to mess with the embryos too much. So typically after fertilization, we'll give a call to the patient and then those embryos will sit for the next five days.
00:11:00
Speaker
um On day five is when we will look at the embryos again. and this is typically, sometimes people do day three transfers, but typically on day five, we'll look at those embryos and that'll be when we determine if we are going to be doing embryo freezing, embryo biopsying, embryo transfers, things like that. So on day five, I want to see what we call blastocyst, excuse ah ah blastoist excuse me um that is basic That is where we see the cell differentiation between the inner cell mass, which is our baby portion of stem cells, and then the placenta portion called the trophectator.
00:11:38
Speaker
That is ah good indication that the embryo is heading in the right direction and is going towards where it needs to be for implantation. If on day five, I look at it and I see something like an eight cell, eight cell embryos are something I see on day three.
00:11:54
Speaker
So that embryo has kind of stalled out on growth and hasn't grown for the past 48 hours. That would not be an embryo I would be able to freeze for you or biopsy or transfer because that does not show that we are going to have a positive implantation rate.
00:12:09
Speaker
Got it. Got it. At what point, you know, you often hear about like a grading system and there's this like 5AA or 4BB, you know, what, what exactly do those numbers mean and where do they kind of, how does that come into play when you're kind of determining, you know, like you said, and I could freeze this or, you know, we could go forward with this embryo.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yes, so that is given by our wonderful Dr. Gardner. He has been in the embryology field for decades. um I had the pleasure of meeting him one time at a conference a few years back, but basically he came up with this grading system um and how most people see it is, like you said, a 5AA. So number grade is between one and six.
00:12:58
Speaker
And that is going to determine the um stage that that blastocyst is in. So a one is an early blastocyst, two a blastocyst, three expanding, four expanded, five hatching blastocyst, and then a six is a completely hatched blastocyst.
00:13:16
Speaker
um In order for an embryo to implant into our uterus, those trophectoderm cells, the placenta cells, have to be exposed and hatching or hatched out of what we call the zona pellucida.
00:13:29
Speaker
It's basically the eggshell that comes with the egg. Those have to be exposed. Yes. Those have to be exposed in order to have proper implantation. um I hear a lot. It's it's funny. Like, I mean, i so I was, I've been a surrogate. And then, you know, you hear other surrogates, they show you they come in at transfer, they show you the picture. And it's like, look, it's hatching. And like, you hear that phrase.
00:13:54
Speaker
Okay, no, that makes a ton of sense. So that's kind of the ideal is that beginning. Right. And like different clinics will just say you have a hatching AA. So a hatching AA would be a 5 AA. So it's just different terminology ah across clinics.
00:14:09
Speaker
And then you have your two letter grades. Those are going to be based off of that inner cell mass and that trifecta. So... First letter grade is going to be our baby portion of stem cells, that inner cell mass. A is just a lot of cells, nice and compact, uniform cells.
00:14:23
Speaker
And then from there, usually a B is smaller, less cells. And then a C is just a very small, more on the poor quality side of what we want to see for an inner cell mass. And then same thing with the second letter grade is the trifecta the placenta portion.
00:14:38
Speaker
A, we have a lot of nice prolific uniform cells forming our trifecta. B, less. And then C is usually there's quite few. um And then we'd call that a C of poor quality. So you have good, fair, and poor.
00:14:52
Speaker
um And so, yeah, a five or a six or four a four AA is typically the highest grade we can give it. And that's a good quality embryo. A BB is a fair and then a CC is poor.
00:15:05
Speaker
um Okay. But that's the breakdown of the of the letter and number system. And it does not indicate that, you know, an AA has a better chance than a BB quality. It's just physically that is what the embryo is showing us.
00:15:21
Speaker
um Okay. Okay. No, that makes a ton of sense. So with would the embryo grades ever change over time are they kind of locked in once you've done that first assessment? And that's ah when is that assessment being done?
00:15:35
Speaker
So that'll be day five, day six, and then day seven if you keep to day seven. um They can change. So on day five, let's say you want to do a bio you're planning to do PGTA genetic testing.
00:15:47
Speaker
So on day five, um you've got 4AA four a a That would be something, or 5AV, that would be something we would definitely like to biopsy. But let's say you have a, you know, 1CC. So that's an early blastocyst. That embryo already just doesn't have enough cells for us to put it through a biopsy process because it may not survive that.
00:16:10
Speaker
I have to take cells away from something that already doesn't have a lot of cells. So the next day when I look at it, it may be at a five BB. So it's grown and it's shown me progress. And now I feel comfortable biopsying that embryo.
00:16:24
Speaker
So they change in that fact of they could still be growing, but typically once an embryo is biopsied by biopsy of five a five AA, when I thaw it out, it'll typically still be a five AA.
00:16:36
Speaker
The only reason it would maybe drop in grade is if I feel that that embryo may not have survived the thawing process and I'm seeing some sort of you know decline in it, then maybe I would grade it lower.
00:16:49
Speaker
That doesn't happen often. Thaw rates for embryos are typically 97, 98%.
00:16:55
Speaker
but yes And another thing to keep in mind, grading is subjective. I may think an embryo is very pretty. Yeah, I may think an embryo is very pretty. And my colleague may be like, that's fair quality to me.
00:17:08
Speaker
So typically when I'm thawing embryos, I'm not changing grades just because, oh, the previous embryologist graded it a BB, but I like it. I'm going to grade an AA. We're not usually changing things like that. But at the time, if you have two embryologists looking at something, they may feel differently about it.
00:17:27
Speaker
Okay. So then how do you who's right? ah Superiority kind of wins out on that one. You know, a junior embryologist is not going to really have a say against a senior who's been doing this for 15 years. But um usually working in the same lab with somebody, you kind of come to agreements on Yes, this is something we would biopsy or this is something we would freeze. um
00:17:58
Speaker
Some embryologists are more comfortable, you know, biopsying something on a lower quality scale than others. So that's another thing to keep into consideration. But those are typically, you know, a junior embryologist may not feel as comfortable. And then a senior would take over and say, all right, I'll take over this case and get these biopsied, you know, things like that. Yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. That makes a ton of sense. You've kind of already alluded to it a little bit when it comes to, you know, the grading system and, and with it being subjective and, you know, just all of the factors that come into that.
00:18:32
Speaker
ah Can you talk a little bit further about, you know, the embryo grading system and how it relates to a pregnancy outcome?
Understanding Embryo Grading and Genetic Testing
00:18:40
Speaker
So the grading itself really doesn't have too much to do with the pregnancy outcome.
00:18:46
Speaker
Um, A BB quality embryo has just a higher percentage as an AA quality embryo in implantation because physically we have the baby portion, we have the placenta portion, we have everything we need for a viable pregnancy.
00:19:02
Speaker
Once we start doing the genetic testing, that's where we see a drop in pregnancy rates because okay um let's say you have um you know a 30 year old who's doing the genetic testing. um or let's say 35. So a 35 year old, you're kind of sitting at maybe like a 30 to 40% implantation rate without um genetic testing, where that genetic testing then could pop you up to maybe 60%. Okay.
00:19:30
Speaker
um Because what's important is what's going on inside, not what we see. Genetics are what's going to play the biggest factor in you know why you have a good outcome, a positive pregnancy test, a positive live birth, you know things like that.
00:19:45
Speaker
Sure. Because we have transferred beautiful AA embryos that have had, you know, just not even a positive note, like a negative pregnancy test, nothing, or we eventually miscarry.
00:19:57
Speaker
Um, usually with repeat, repeat pregnancy loss patients, we kind of push them towards that genetic testing just because maybe that could point us in the direction of, Oh, so we are seeing that you typically make a higher percentage of abnormal embryos.
00:20:13
Speaker
And now we're going to transfer a normal embryo and hopefully that will get you, you know, to that final destination. of a baby, you know? Sure, sure. So there's two things really to consider when a intended parent is determining which embryo they want to transfer. There's the grading system, which is just helpful in the sense of this looks pretty, this, you know, we we like what we're seeing. Yes.
00:20:39
Speaker
But then the genetic testing aspect is a completely different column. These two don't necessarily cross over or like the genetic testing wouldn't change the grade of an embryo. It's just, they're just totally separate. Totally separate. Yeah. Cause I have my grade for the embryo before we have a genetic report.
00:20:58
Speaker
We send off the biopsied cells and about seven to 14 days later is when we get the genetic report back. So ah good quality AA embryo could come back with, you know, a monosomy 13. We're missing a copy of chromosome 13. Whereas my fair quality BB could come back normal.
00:21:15
Speaker
And that's what we end up transferring because we're not going to transfer an embryo that showed abnormalities. okay Okay. That, yeah, no, that's super, that's super helpful.
00:21:26
Speaker
There's, you know, a lot of intended parents, you know, when they're waiting with bated breath for that day five call, you know, they, there's a lot of, I think, anxiety around, you know, there's that part of the journey. There's so much, there's so much hope, there's so much anxiety and someone can sometimes feel really,
00:21:48
Speaker
devastated and discouraged when they hear the grading system before we've even gotten to, you know, genetic testing and things like that. What would you kind of say to that?
00:21:59
Speaker
you know, just when someone is feeling all those feelings. I mean, it is difficult to not focus on the negatives and stuff like that because you're already investing a lot of time, lot of money,
00:22:13
Speaker
you're mentally exhausted, physically exhausted from stimulation and, you know, things like that. So it's very difficult not to focus on things like the grading scale, but here I mean, ah typical, I mean, ah story I have is that my, one of my dearest friends had to go through IVF treatment and her first baby, they transferred an AB embryo.
00:22:36
Speaker
Second two did not take. And those were her other AB b embryos. And then her fourth transfer was a BB and she is currently pregnant and going to be, you know, giving birth in the next few weeks.
00:22:50
Speaker
So, I mean, you would think that, yes, the and she did the genetic testing as well. Sure. And so two out of her three ABs didn't end up taking.
00:23:01
Speaker
She had negative pregnancy tests. There are other factors that go into, you know, the IVF process. We want your uterine lining to be prepped perfectly. We're not going to transfer an embryo where you're,
00:23:12
Speaker
Uterus is not ready to accept it. Other things come into play like secondary factors. You know, you could have endometriosis. Obesity does play a role in us being able to get that uterine lining where we want it to be. So just because we have a normal, beautiful embryo for transfer does not mean that that is the, you know, holy grail, this is going to be, this is going to work. There are so many other factors that go into, you know, making a baby.
00:23:41
Speaker
It's a team sport. It's a team sport. its It's hard for me to have. The only thing I can say to patients is, you know, just try not to dwell on the grades and stuff like that, because I do know that that is one thing that a lot of patients really focus on is, well, I have a fair quality embryo. It's it's just not going to work. And clearly i have friends who say different, you know.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. for sure. do you, I know you, you have your friend. Do you ever get to follow the journeys of the families that you've helped create?
00:24:15
Speaker
Sometimes. I mean, you know, we've had, influencers come in and, you know, so you do get to see their, their process, um, ah over their, you know, TikToks and Instagrams. and stuff But I mean, a lot of time when you work in a city, you'll like also run into them like at a Pilates class or your instructor will tell you that they're going through IVF and things like that.
00:24:38
Speaker
IVF is so much more. It's, there's still a lot of sadly like taboo and controversy around IVF, but it is so common with, I think we're sitting around like one in five couples go through some sort of IVF treatment now.
00:24:52
Speaker
And yeah I say it all the time. Like I wish my job didn't exist because this is not something I want to see people come to. You don't have people come walking through the door of their doctor's office saying, yes, we've made it. We're in IVF treatment.
00:25:07
Speaker
Nobody wants to be there, you know? um But it is, it is nice seeing the good outcomes and getting the, you know, the Christmas cards of the babies and all that good stuff. We get so many Christmas cards, you know?
00:25:23
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I think you're so right though. It is one of those, it's the, I kind of call it, it's like the, the loneliest, biggest community that no one knows they're a part of until people actually start talking about it. yeah Um, and i mean, you're right. it,
00:25:41
Speaker
it there is so many people There are so many people that are going through it and and you just don't know because it does seem like you're the the only one. right um But I love that you get to you know, i know you're back in a lab and you're looking through microscopes and, you know, zooming in on the tiniest little things.
00:26:02
Speaker
And I love that you get see the outcomes of that outside of the lab. Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, if we, if each embryologist has a patient that sticks with them, we do try to kind of check in. I remember I had a patient a few years back. She had been tested.
00:26:19
Speaker
So you have your single gene testing as well. You have chromosome testing. And then if you have something like Huntington's or breast cancer that runs in the families, you could test things like BRCA. So she had a BRCA1 mutation.
00:26:32
Speaker
And so she was testing her embryos and we had gone through five IVF cycles. Wow. And none in her previous, um I think out of five or out of four, she had one that had came back normal and unaffected.
00:26:48
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. And we had biopsied a lot of embryos. She was young. um And on her fifth one I got her genetics report back. Give her a call. we'll We'll call her Samantha.
00:26:59
Speaker
Hey, Samantha, Lucille, here with your you know genetic report. And she knows me. Usually I don't call with the best news. She's just like, all right, let me have it. And i was like, We got four this time.
00:27:11
Speaker
Four came back. Yeah. Unaffected. She has baby now. She's got two babies now, but like, you know, there are certain things that whether it's good outcomes or bad outcome outcomes, those patients will stick with you. And you definitely try to check up, not check up in a way where it's creepy because I'm not calling them. I'm not calling and intruding on your life, but Like, you know, just making sure your pregnancy, ah um you know, your HCG levels are rising, you've graduated to your OB-GYN, and then hopefully looking for those final outcomes of, you know, baby was born this day, this this weight, and everything's happy and healthy, you know? Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker
I love that. And that feels good. It feels good to go from like, oh, this little tiny cell to like, you know, there's that bundle of joy. And especially when you're on, you know, journeys like that, where it's like, yep, here I am again. We're on a first name basis. and We know each other.
00:28:07
Speaker
yeah Yes. And I always tell my transfer patients, like, I love you, but I never want to see you again. Unless we're um also having, you know, baby number two or three, because i don't ever want to see you come back. I want you to go now and live your life and yeah enjoy it. And I don't want to see you come back because, you know, we didn didn't get pregnant and things that. Right.
00:28:27
Speaker
Right. Exactly. As a traveling embryologist, I feel like that gives you, you get to kind of have a glimpse into all of these different clinics and, you know, just the different ways that, you know, clinics do, you know, kind of work within the fertility world.
00:28:45
Speaker
How, How does that impact just your perspective of fertility care across the board? For the 99% the time, it's, IVF clinics are the same in like a protocol way. It's just how they carry it out is a little bit different with each one.
00:29:06
Speaker
Different media from different companies is used. um Some of them have cool like um electronic witnessing systems to where you don't need somebody to double check. You've got a label on everything that has barcodes and everything is scanned. And if something doesn't match up there's a big alert that goes off.
00:29:24
Speaker
um Sure. So getting to just kind of know that individual way labs are run is kind of a little bit of the learning curve, but biopsies are all done the same.
00:29:39
Speaker
ICSI's are all done the same. Retrievals are all done the same. So it's just getting to know what that lab does in itself that is just a little bit different from every other one. Because obviously you want to follow their rules and protocols while you're there.
00:29:53
Speaker
Sure, sure. why What gets you excited about the process of IVF and embryos as just the world kind of continues to evolve? You kind of already talked about some of the different tech and things like that.
00:30:08
Speaker
I mean, that's honestly the main thing is we're now kind of a technologically driven world. So getting to see all of the... They have a lot of, you know, AI tracking with embryos now where they videotape the embryos from and egg all the way to a blastocyst.
00:30:24
Speaker
And certain timeframes during that track have, so you know, people are trying to see if that correlates to a higher pregnancy rate or wow yeah different outcomes like that. um Non-invasive medications where, you know, how we have to stimulate the woman and she has to take injections every day, they've kind of started looking into not, um excuse me, not invasive, but needleless um where she doesn't have to inject herself every day. It's kind of like a, like a diabetic pump gets stuck once and now they're kind of just injecting those matter medications through there. And so you only have to do one injection.
00:31:04
Speaker
These are all kind of not, these are an FDA approval, clinical trials, things like that Sure, sure. And then, you know, IVF is such an expensive process, you know, one cycle could be upwards of $10,000. Right. And so they're kind of now doing some stuff with um in vitro maturation where they stem a patient for a few days, like typically...
00:31:30
Speaker
three instead of the nine to 12. And then they do a retrieval and mature those eggs outside of the body. And that the medication process is one of the most expensive parts of doing IVF because a lot of times um insurance doesn't cover the meds.
00:31:46
Speaker
So if you could take out, you know, anywhere from six to 10 days of medication, that's going to save you a lot of money. So just a lot of um cool new technologies and advances in, you know, things like um women who have cancer and harvesting their, you know, tissue to see if maybe we could culture and grow eggs outside while she has to go through chemo treatment, things like that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just, it's a very technologically driven now.
00:32:18
Speaker
Um, just seeing what all of the AI stuff has to offer has been really cool. No, that all sounds but just so fascinating. What, what gets you excited to go to work every day? What, what's kind of your favorite part of what you get to do?
00:32:37
Speaker
I just enjoy being in the lab. Um, my mom, My mom, her job when I grew up, she was a research driven woman. She did a lot of decompression sickness with divers and astronauts. So I just remember going to work with her and her doing a lot of research. But I enjoy being in the lab.
00:32:56
Speaker
And yes, it is kind of a day to day. monotonous you know You come in, you do retrievals, you do ICSI's, you do biopsies. It's the same thing every day, but each case is going to be a little bit different. You're going to have a 42-year-old who has diminished ovarian reserve, and you know we may only get three or four eggs. And then you've got a patient who has PCOS, which is polycystic ovarian syndrome, and we could get 60 eggs on her.
00:33:25
Speaker
So it's just i enjoy... the being in the lab and being with a team who also is there to, you know, just hopefully we're making a difference in bettering somebody's life. And, you know, just, it's a good feeling.
00:33:45
Speaker
There are definitely days where the outcome is not what we want. And, you know, you go to, you go home upset, but yeah you hope that the next day is, you know, a little better and that you're making a difference in a good way.
00:33:59
Speaker
No, for sure. why What do you wish more mean in intended parents or surrogates in particular maybe understood about the role of the IVF process from the seat that you sit in I think the main
Choosing the Right IVF Team
00:34:21
Speaker
thing...
00:34:21
Speaker
um is how long the process actually takes. um You know, you come in for your first consult with your doctor, she may do, she or he, they may do, you know, a quick sono to see how, you know, everything is looking. You make it a few blood draws done. But I mean,
00:34:43
Speaker
It could be months before you to lay down, you know, to have an embryo transfer. um Right. You got to go through STEM. It has to line up with the, you know, the doctor's timeline as well.
00:34:56
Speaker
A lot of doctors, because there are, there are a lot of IVF clinics, but there aren't nearly as many IVF doctors as there are people who need it. So there could be a waiting list. Yeah.
00:35:07
Speaker
I know doctors who are on a three to four month waiting list for new patients just to be seen. So i think the main thing is, you know, understanding that it is going to take some time. This isn't, you know, ah few days and we're coming in afterwards to have a, you know, ah transfer.
00:35:24
Speaker
And then again, just trying not to focus on the things that that can't be controlled like the grading system. So many patients focus and hyper fixate on, well, I have an AA. Is there, is there a grade higher than an AA?
00:35:39
Speaker
And, um, or their bonus points, right? I know this is good. Is there a perfect, excellent grade? And sure. That also, that is definitely something that I try to tell patients not to hyper fixate on because it will,
00:35:57
Speaker
consume you. IVF itself is going to consume your life. You're going to be going to doctor's visits and going in for tests and, you know, multiple times a week leading up to a retrieval because we're tracking your blood draws and things like that.
00:36:13
Speaker
um Just give yourself some grace. Find a doctor that you trust and vibe with. I mean, it's kind of like a therapist.
00:36:25
Speaker
You go in, you have your first consult. You may not feel like they're the right fit. So if that's the case, go to another doctor. I mean, that's where your trust is going to stem from. You're going to be speaking with your doctor mainly.
00:36:40
Speaker
Make sure that they are somebody you trust to guide you on this journey. Because I mean, like I said, not many people...
00:36:49
Speaker
see us and know, not, nobody really knows who their embryologist is. So sure. I mean, talking to your doctor about their lab practices, their protocols is where you're going to get the most information. Just start like if you're starting out.
00:37:04
Speaker
um So find a good doctor. No, that's great. Yeah, I can. No, that's perfect. And I agree. It is it is a combination of all of that. You need to trust that person.
00:37:16
Speaker
ah look at, you know, it's, SART and you know all of that. i mean, all of those things are are part of that that process to feel comfortable because this is, it's a long journey. so long It is a long journey and you need to feel comfortable with your team. Right. Well, Lucille, I so appreciate just all of your knowledge and expertise and you know kind of giving us a peek behind you know those lab doors. I know. Nobody gets to come back and see us.
00:37:46
Speaker
No one. And I hear it looks like you guys are playing video games back there. I mean, with everything. know. And everything is very, like, you know... um very pristine back there. Very clean. I bring like I have shoes that only step foot in the lab. They never like step foot outside. So it's very it's a very clean environment.
00:38:07
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. I love it. Are you messy at home just for the sake of being able to be messy? That's why you're in this room, because the rest of the house is an absolute mess. I love it.
00:38:18
Speaker
I love it. No, that's so perfect. My, my last question for you. Um, and it's a fun one. You've already seen me. I'm sitting here sipping on ah cup number three, ah today of my, my coffee because coffee and I, we, we don't go far from each other.
00:38:35
Speaker
Um, I always love to ask the question, what has filled your cup today, literally or figuratively, what has been the thing that has filled your cup?
00:38:46
Speaker
Today? Getting to do this obviously was really fun and exciting and nerve-wracking, but also
Balancing Work and Personal Life as a Traveling Embryologist
00:38:55
Speaker
filling my cup. i I was traveling this past week for work, so getting to come home and see my husband and my dog after you know going and traveling wherever it is, whether it's New York or just down to Dallas or you know Kansas or something, it's nice to come home and kind of decompress and relax for For sure.
00:39:18
Speaker
For sure. No, I'm so, I'm so glad, especially after all of the intensive small things that you're doing. I'm sure it it feels good to just go take a dip in the pool.
00:39:30
Speaker
things like There you go. I love it. I love it. Well, again, thank you so much. And um I'm just, I really, again, I appreciate just those peek behind the lab doors and all of the amazing things that you are doing to to make this process successful. Yes, ma'am. That's what we're here for.