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From Fear to Clarity: Surrogacy for Intended Parents
0 Playsin 2 hours
Starting the surrogacy journey can feel overwhelming — especially when you’re trying to figure out who to trust and what really matters.
In this episode, Crystal shares her experience as an intended parent navigating loss, fear, and the early days of surrogacy, when anxious Googling and conflicting information made everything feel uncertain. She speaks honestly about ethics, control, and the red flags she didn’t know how to spot at the beginning — and what actually brought clarity over time.
This conversation is for intended parents at the very start of their surrogacy journey who want to feel informed, grounded, and confident as they take their next step.
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
anxious Googling, which is what I had been doing. And so we all kind of start from that place of, it was exhausting just getting to the starting line. And there is a lot of room for misbehavior. There is a lot of room for taking advantage That's Crystal.
00:00:15
Speaker
Once a hopeful parent is now a member of the egg donor and surrogate solutions matching and education team. She was just like so many of the families we meet overwhelmed, unsure who to trust and trying to make one of the biggest decisions of her life with almost no guidance. And so we all kind of start from that place of, it was exhausting just getting to the starting line.
00:00:37
Speaker
And now what? Experiencing that moment, that realization, and that firsthand knowledge has made Crystal an amazing educator and support for hopeful parents because she remembers exactly what it felt like to be searching for clarity in a process that can feel incredibly overwhelming.
00:00:57
Speaker
I so desperately wanted to control the outcome. Just want to control the outcome. And the hardest part about this journey is there is no controlling it. In today's episode, k Crystal shares the emotional and ethical realities of navigating this journey as an intended parent, the red flags, the lessons she learned, and the clarity and support she hopes to give every family just starting this journey.
00:01:23
Speaker
Enjoy.
Navigating Loss and Choosing Surrogacy
00:01:27
Speaker
So, okay, Crystal, you ah show up for intended parents with so much empathy, so much steadiness, and a lot of that is rooted in your own story. But before we talk about the work that you do now, can you take us back to just those early days of your family building journey and what those first chapters were like for you?
00:01:54
Speaker
For sure. For sure. so like a lot of our intended parents, I did eat IVF forever um and it didn't work forever. and then we did get pregnant and had our first daughter Everly, but we had her very early. And unfortunately that tiny body could not survive in the al outside world long enough. And so she was with us for 19 days, just a few weeks and what we learned was first that we were meant to be parents. Like meeting her just taught us, oh, we like we kind of thought we wanted to do this. And now we're like, ah we're meant to have children. Like we were were built to be parents. And so how do we do that now? And after meeting with a lot of doctors, way too many doctors, um we learned that the chances of us ending up in the same position
00:02:50
Speaker
were like 70%. There was a 70% chance we would lose another child um and that I would likely die in the process. And so we realized, okay, this is not not not a good route for us to go again. And this is so funny. I don't think I ever told you this, but when we were like middle of grief and loss and postpartum and figuring out surrogacy, we realized we couldn't make it really good decisions in our own life. Like we were just too emotional about everything. So we appointed a board of directors for our life um and sent them all a letter saying, this is what we're looking at. This is what we're thinking. Here's what the doctors have said. Here's the statistics. Here's every study that's ever been done on surrogacy.
00:03:38
Speaker
What do you think? And they all came back unanimously and said, we think you should do surrogacy. And so we jumped two feet into this world um and didn't even know what jumping in two feet looked like. We were like, what, what, what are we, do you just like, is there like 1-800
Surrogacy Process and Emotional Challenges
00:03:58
Speaker
surrogate? Like what what, what do you do? What do you call? um And so I just started Googling furiously, trying to learn everything that I could. And I learned some really exciting things and I learned some really scary things. um And all kinds of things that eventually, thankfully led me here.
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. for sure. Obviously, there's so much between then and where you are now. When you think back... you know, obviously you walked through moments that no parent should have to prepare for. but when you do think about that season now, what helped you begin taking those steps forward? Whether, I mean, i know we have a lot of intended parents who are in so many different phases of their parenting journey and they, you know, it always feels like they need to figure out what that next right step is. What were, what were those things that helped you move forward?
00:05:00
Speaker
um Well, the first thing was our age. We were both like late thirty s early 40s going, yeah, we're doing the math that all of our intended parents do how old will I be at their high school graduation. And then when you learn that matching isn't automatic, you don't just meet a surrogate the day that you sign up and you're paired and you begin a journey, but this could take up to a year or maybe even more than a year before you even transfer an embryo we became really motivated to move quickly. um
00:05:32
Speaker
We also, I mean, there were moments of like motivated to move quickly and then moments of like, this may never happen. Despair. like is this ever going to work out for us? And I remember this distinct moment of walking through my neighborhood, listening to podcasts on surrogacy, trying to learn about anything I could learn. And there was a doctor on one of the podcasts who said, statistically, if you're willing to keep going, you will have a baby.
00:06:02
Speaker
You may encounter some losses. You may have to engage with an egg donor. You might have to do more than one transfer. But if you just keep going, there is a 0.0% chance that you will end up without a baby.
00:06:16
Speaker
And I remember feeling so hopeful after I heard that of if we can just keep going. if we could just take the next step, whatever the next step is, if it's just one more step, I clung to, I don't even know what podcast that was or who's, who that doctor was. but I clung to that doctor's words for our whole journey because we encountered some loss even after. and there were moments where I thought, is this ever going to happen? And i just kept thinking, if you just keep going,
00:06:46
Speaker
If you just statistically, if you just keep going, you will come home with a baby. And that, that is what happened. Yeah, for sure. And it's so hard in the midst of grief and loss to find those moments of, of hope as you're trying to like you said, get to just, just wanting to be a mom When you matched with your surrogate, what stood out to you kind of just about those early conversations and that initial connection, you know, even just as you entered this world and then got into that matching process? How did, you know, maybe those emotions with your own history, like how, what were you experiencing? And then how did those emotions, you know, what did they look like for you as you were kind of trying to build that trust in the moment as well?
00:07:43
Speaker
All the emotions were big. don't think had a small emotion the whole time. um we did something that seemed crazy to me at the time when I was talking um with this agency, actually. it was suggested that we share our story on social media. And I remember thinking, that is insane. there's no chance I'm going to do that. And then they said, well, we, we have seen parents match faster that way. And you're not sharing it on your social media. You're just really sharing it on ours, on the agency side. And we have surrogates who watch our social channels and some of them are just waiting for the right family. And so we just want you to think about it. And so at that point I was like, if it can help us meet someone who is willing to work with us and willing to help Let's give anything a shot. And so we shared our story and this is not typical. I recognize that not every family it happens this way, but our story, it responded to that story in a matter of hours.
00:08:46
Speaker
And we matched very quickly within a week. We had been thinking that this was going to be three weeks to 10 months, which I often tell parents that it is. And so to meet someone that quickly felt like a miracle, Um, and I, and I'm a person of faith. I was working in ministry at the time. So there is like a part of that that to me felt like more than just happenstance, more than just luck. But even if it was luck, I was super thankful for it and, um, met that person and instantly on a match meeting call was like, oh, this is a, this is a really good person. This is a really good human who has options, right? This, It's not like this was their only option in life. They chose to do this. um And G was incredible. G's husband instantly connected with my husband. and And pretty quickly, there was just a sense of,
00:09:44
Speaker
oh, I think this is probably meant to be, um which lasted for about 10 seconds after the match meeting call before the anxiety hit of, but what if I'm wrong?
00:09:56
Speaker
Even though it was meant, they're like the best human. Every part of them is like giving and wholesome in every part of their life. They are a servant in every area of their life. They are
Building Relationships and Trust
00:10:07
Speaker
trustworthy in every area of their life. There was still a part of me that had an anxiety flood after that call of,
00:10:13
Speaker
What if they're not who said who they say they are? Who's checking? How do I know? How do I? And I started doing like a furious Googling on their first name because that is all I had at that point, um which is not healthy. And I probably should have just called my therapist. um That is not a healthy way to handle it. I think had I known everything that the agency was doing on the other side to make sure that this person was like,
00:10:43
Speaker
legally background checked and then they'd had interviews and they'd had conversations and that their medical records i didn't know any of those things um i was just like what if they're not as amazing as they seem and that um that's kind of a theme i think for a lot of journeys right like as i talk to intended parents there's a sense of like how can i trust this person And what I wish I could tell them is like, everything is verifiable.
00:11:10
Speaker
Every single thing about their life, you will see every detail and you will be able to verify every time they drink a Diet Coke and you'll know exactly how many milligrams of caffeine they get a day. And you'll know every single move that they make, but that's not realistic. There was a whole part of our journey that was, you are you are trusting this person.
00:11:31
Speaker
You have to trust this person. And so eventually we kind of came to the conclusion of, We just met. We know as much about them as we're going to know, which is not a lot.
00:11:42
Speaker
And we're going to either trust her or not trust her. And what I can't do is try to then control everything the whole way. So that's what we ended up saying. We think this is a trustworthy person. And um very fortunately, we lived in the same city.
00:11:58
Speaker
And I know that's not true for most families. we lived in the same city. And so within a week of matching, we were at their home having dinner with our GC and her husband and kids. And um at the time we met in person, all those questions about are they, who they say they are, they as wonderful as they seem sort of dissipated because as soon as you're face-to-face, and I think that happens for a lot of families that transfer when you're face-to-face for the first time, you get that real sense of like who they are as a person and, and how trustworthy they really are. And that was what happened for us. As soon as we met, it was like, okay, I think we're going to be just fine.
00:12:39
Speaker
No, for sure. For sure. You've kind of touched on it, you know, in various ways, but as you look at what you do today, what parts of your journey show up the most in how you care for and guide, you know, hopeful parents who are just at the beginning of theirs?
00:13:00
Speaker
So, ah so much of our own journey is like baked into every call with intended parents because they come in the same way at I did, right? Nobody comes in on an easy road, even families who know that they are coming in, that surrogacy is their only option, right? Like LGBTQ families often know that surrogacy is their only option, but it still wasn't an easy road to get here. There's a ton of anxiety. There's a ton of financial stress. There's a ton of anxious Googling, which is what I had been doing. And so we all kind of start from that place of, it was exhausting just getting to the starting line.
00:13:34
Speaker
yeah And now what? um And one of the things that I say to them, which often is met with, yeah, us too, is, hey, I went down some Google rabbit holes that really scared me when we started this. And what I learned is this is a really unregulated industry and there is a lot of room for misbehavior.
00:13:53
Speaker
There is a lot of room for taking advantage of underserved women in ways that can exploit them. And there is a lot of room for taking advantage of desperate parents who just want to have a baby. Um, and there's, there's a real need to verify that who you're working with is an ethical organization with ethical practices. And so when I sit with him, I learned all this through anxious Googling and Facebook groups and Reddit threads. Um,
00:14:22
Speaker
But now when I sit with intended parents, I get to tell them, hey, here's the shortcut to learning those things. Anytime you meet with an agency, you want to ask, do you follow all medical best practice guidelines set out by ASRM? That's the American Society for Reproductive Medicine.
00:14:38
Speaker
If someone says, no we don't follow medical best practice guidelines, that's a red flag because your clinic certainly does. And the last thing you want is to spend your life savings to match with a surrogate.
00:14:50
Speaker
who doesn't meet medical guidelines, and then pay your clinic more money to tell you that she's actually disqualified. And so that's a first step. The other thing I tell intended parents is ask anyone you work with, are they a member of SEATS, the Society for Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy? That's kind of the ethical best practice. And neither of these are like the highest standard over and above. These are baseline agreements for how ethical agencies operate and can you can you verify those two things? That's a great first step. um When we began trying to figure those things out pretty quickly, those directories, the ASRM and SEEDS led us here. And we also went down just a lot of surrogacy agency reviews, right? Like there are Facebook groups just for reviews. um And one of the things that I tried to figure out, and this is super weird, but I was really worried about a surrogate being someone who was being taken advantage of. And how do I know that she has other options and is choosing to do this versus has a financial pressure that is forcing her to make a decision about her body she wouldn't otherwise have made?
00:16:01
Speaker
And one of the things I looked at is in agency review groups, who did the surrogate say treated them well? Who did they say? i had a great experience. I had a lot of choice. I had an agency that was advocating for me. That ultimately is what led me here to egg donor and surrogate solutions as a client. I wasn't planning on changing careers here as a staff member, but that eventually was the very driving force that led me also to change careers and come here as a staff member. Because when I realized, oh, not every player is ethical. And then this player is,
00:16:38
Speaker
trying to raise the bar on ethical standards in the industry. i was like, that's a that's a mission I want to be a part of, which was really exciting. For sure. Sitting in the seat where you're sitting, where it can be so overwhelming to go down those Google rabbit holes and rabbiit Reddit threads and you know just all of those things.
00:17:01
Speaker
What do you feel like are maybe just some misconceptions or unrealistic unrealistic expectations you kind of see that can maybe unintentionally create ethical concerns or mismatches?
00:17:19
Speaker
there I mean, if i if I'm going to be super blunt, and I and i am sometimes with intended parents, people are not products. You are not renting a person. You are not renting a uterus. These are women who have signed up to help a family and to partner with you. They're not your employee and they shouldn't be treated like your employee. Yes, there is compensation exchanged. And one of the ways I explain it sometimes to intended parents is if you were in a car accident with that person and it was your responsibility, then you might be responsible to pay for pain and suffering.
00:17:56
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that they're your employee. It doesn't mean you're going to send them a W-2 at the end of the year. And it doesn't mean you're in charge of their decisions. It doesn't mean that that you get to boss them around.
00:18:07
Speaker
And this is kind of more similar to that, that they are going to endure some pain and suffering. There is some compensation for that. But you are not, this is not an employer-employee relationship. This is a two families coming together.
00:18:22
Speaker
to help each other kind of relationship. And when you treat it that way, that's when you see people have their really best journeys versus when one party tries to hold control. And that is, that is what it comes down to, right? Is control that parents very much like me come in with a tough story.
00:18:40
Speaker
We've seen all the ways that can go wrong. We're anxious about, it going wrong again, because there is something about trauma that rewires your brain to believe if it went badly before it's going to go badly again. So it becomes kind of difficult to see even a good outcome on the horizon. And so we have a tendency to try to control our way out of that anxiety and control, you know, introducing rules and regulations on a GC that she was never meant to carry that she never signed up for. um
00:19:13
Speaker
in an effort to to just have some sense of control. And that is where you see journeys get off the rails. I, candidly, I share this with a lot of intended parents that, RGC was as responsible as they get. It's just the best kind of human. um She is professionally in medical practice. She could be trusted with medical decisions and she's vegan. She has the healthiest diet you can have. And still I would lay awake at night thinking, did she get enough protein today?
00:19:46
Speaker
Should I ask her if she got enough protein today? and like years later, stepping back from that, That is an unhinged thought.
00:19:59
Speaker
Do I need to call her and ask if she got enough protein is like, no, I should call my own therapist and make an appointment because that is insanity. But I was just I so desperately wanted to control the outcome thought. Thankfully, there were times where my husband was like, hey, we're not going to do that. We're not going to make that call because that is wild. um But I see parents all the time who are like, I just want to control the outcome. And the hardest part about this journey is there is no controlling
Legal and Ethical Considerations in Surrogacy
00:20:33
Speaker
it.
00:20:33
Speaker
There is no controlling the outcome. And controlling a person is not going to make it better. It's only going to make it more complicated. No, for sure. We'll get right back to the show.
00:20:45
Speaker
But real quick, if you're dreaming of growing your family through egg donation or surrogacy, we'd love to help. At Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions, we've spent 18 years guiding hopeful parents with compassion, expertise, and personal experience.
00:20:59
Speaker
Our team includes people who have been intended parents, surrogates, egg donors, and even nurses. So when we say we understand, we truly do. You can schedule a free 15-minute call with our team at createahappyfamily.com to get your questions answered and explore your next steps.
00:21:17
Speaker
You don't have to navigate this journey alone. We're here to walk it with you. All right, let's get back to the show. From... Going back to that, the ethical practices, you you know kind of ah have already touched on ASRM and SEEDS, but what do you think intended parents deserve to understand clearly before they step into surrogacy?
00:21:43
Speaker
Oh, so many things. Number one, any agency should be able to tell you when they take your money And when you're going to get matched based on that, like we don't, as an agency, we don't take any money until match. And that doesn't mean that's the only way to do things. It's just how we choose to do things. But for the agencies, and I talked to several in our journey who take tens of thousands of dollars to put you on a list, any parent deserves to ask the question, when do I get off that list?
00:22:17
Speaker
And if you're guaranteeing me a match, are you guaranteeing me that that person meets ASRM guidelines? Because if you just give me a match and I take them to my clinic and my clinic says, no, I'm no further down the road. And i do feel like I talk more times than I should. I talk to intended parents who have gone to agencies, paid tens of thousands of dollars, sat on a list for two years, or they saw one or two candidates who were not qualified in years and they have lost years of their parenting journey to this. And then they come to us and say, how do i how do I make sure that doesn't happen again? And so i tell every parent, you should ask any agency you talk with, when do you take my money? How long am I on that list?
00:23:01
Speaker
Is my surrogate medically qualified when I match with her? And how do you know? The other thing that has come up in conversation a lot with intended parents is the idea of everything in house and how good that sounds, right? Like it sounds like almost like a, a less complicated journey when someone says, oh we have attorneys in house and we have escrow in house. It's wildly convenient when you've, you know, talk to so many people and you're already having to, I've got to talk to this doctor and that doctor. And you know, it sounds amazing.
00:23:37
Speaker
ah In-house seems like it's more convenient and it's less complicated, but the reality is you don't want everybody to be in-house. as You don't want your attorney on the payroll of your agency.
00:23:50
Speaker
You want your attorney to be a neutral third party who represents you. And by the same token, you don't want your escrow company on the payroll of your agency. You want them to be a neutral third party who represents you. And in the best interest of intended parents, we have that conversation all the time of in-house sounds great, but do you really want all of the parties who represent you to be under one roof? Because we've seen in the industry when that goes south, right? Like we've seen when an agency closes and they had in-house escrow and they take all the escrow money, um And those parents don't have any recourse because there is no third party to advocate for them. That's one of the reasons that we work so hard to make sure every intended parent we work with works with seed trust escrow.
00:24:39
Speaker
um It's not just that we have like a favorite escrow company that we love working with them, but it's that seed trust has all of the protections in place to make sure that sort of fraud doesn't happen. yeah And more importantly, they have the insurance in place to cover intended parents in the event that money were stolen. For example, in a cybersecurity threat, we see so many medical facilities getting hit with cyber attacks and ransomware attacks. And if that were to happen, our understanding is that seed trust has so much insurance in place that intended parents would be protected, which is why we choose to work with them.
00:25:17
Speaker
oh Is that going too, too in detail? ah no so No, no, no. You're so right. And, um you know, we've been lucky enough to, we spoke with Adam, who is, you know, the president of C-Trust and, you know, C-Trust does an amazing job of being incredibly transparent about what all of those protections are and, you know, all of those things. And not only is that a benefit for intended parents, but it's a benefit to surrogates as well. They, you know, again, it's that neutral party and, you know, there isn't somebody that is looking to the agency. It's looking to that contract that's in place, what has been agreed upon, making sure that there's checks and balances. And in an industry that can get, you know, dicey sometimes, unfortunately, and like, as you said in the beginning, it can feel
00:26:09
Speaker
So you're working with a population that for lack of a better word, it feels desperate. And so you do kind of say you sometimes are in a situation where you feel like you have to say yes to something, even if, you know, the back of your mind, it just doesn't quite feel right. And so to have those trusted, just industry professionals in place is so vital and so important. So you're not worrying about those things and you do get to enjoy your journey. Same thing with attorneys, like gestational carriers having that representation, their own and intended parents having their own. And as you put it, not being on an agency payroll, they have that representation and that advocacy in place.
00:26:56
Speaker
That is such a conversation that comes up all the time. I think that's really surprising to intended parents is that surrogates will have their own representation, their legal representation, but there is no way to do it where everyone's sharing an attorney and one person's paying the bill, but it's not a conflict of interest. it is It's always going to be a conflict. And so we want to make sure that GCs are fairly represented. And so they have their own attorney. The other thing that surprises a lot of intended parents um is that those attorneys will be in the state where the surrogate lives because that's where you file for parentage. And those are the only state laws that actually matter in a surrogacy journey is where the baby's going to be born. And so um often I have the conversation with parents who say, I've already talked to an attorney, we're ready to go. And I'm like, hold on. I'm so glad you're talking to someone. um
00:27:47
Speaker
There's ah a strong chance that your surrogate will be in a different state and different state laws will apply. We want to make sure you have someone who's licensed in that state because of all the things in life that you want to gamble on going wrong.
00:28:00
Speaker
Your legal rights to be the parent of that baby are not the thing that you want to go wrong. And so we want to make sure you have someone licensed in the state where you will get those legal rights. Exactly. And we have definitely heard horror stories of when, you know, that has not been the case. But um but again, it's having the the industry professionals who are transparent and who do look at all of those aspects of things that no matter, you know, how many times you Google or Reddit thread, you might not know until you've experienced it. um And I feel like that that is, you know, just also such a benefit to being aware of who you're working with, how long they've been in the industry, you know, just all of those things.
Communication and Relationship Building
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like that's becoming a more common conversation with parents too, just as, the entire industry grows. I think parents are becoming more educated as they're coming in and they're asking questions, good questions like, how long have you been an agency? How many families do you match each year? yeah How many cases do your coordinators have? Which is a great question because there are times if you have one coordinator trying to manage a hundred families, that's more than what they could realistically do. And so i do notice that parents are coming in with really good questions about just operational practices as an agency that don't seem super exciting to think about when you're on the front end of a journey, but they end up being really important as you're going through the journey. And I'm happy to see parents who are asking honestly far better questions than I asked.
00:29:40
Speaker
ah How do you you know, again, sitting in the seat that you sit in now how do you kind of help families navigate the balance between their hopes, their fear, and but also, you know, kind of what's, what's fair, what's healthy for everyone involved and educating them on just the journey as a whole?
00:30:14
Speaker
Things that I am pretty committed to that honestly is is a little bit hard is just acknowledging what is true, even when it's not comfortable.
00:30:25
Speaker
And what is true is that there are no guarantees. And IVF gets marketed like a sure thing. And so many of our families know that it isn't. Surrogacy also gets talked about like a sure thing.
00:30:38
Speaker
And we try to acknowledge upfront that it's not, that there are, that 50% of embryo transfers to a surrogate work. And the reality is it's a coin flip every time. Now, if you tried three times, there's a 95% live birth rate. And so your chances are high.
00:30:55
Speaker
but it's still not 100%. And so we try to acknowledge, even when that's not the most fun thing to talk about, rather than sell somebody on working with us as an agency, I do try to acknowledge what is true and where the risk is that this might not work out. um The other thing that that comes up a lot is how to mitigate risk and whose job it is. And ultimately as an agency, we do everything that can be done to mitigate risk. The clinics we work with do everything that can be done to mitigate risk, but beyond what the professionals are saying, right? Beyond what maybe her doctor is saying, beyond what the clinic is saying, it's not helpful when intended parents try to add
00:31:42
Speaker
rules on top of that um to to mitigate risk. First of all, they don't actually end up mitigating any risk. It just ends up making the relationship more complicated. And we have seen things, right? Like parents who say who have food restrictions, or you can only eat out of this kind of container, or you can only wear these brands of makeup, or you can only take these brands of prenatal ah vitamins. And ultimately, those things don't end up mitigating a lot of risk. They're also not realistic in terms of what is enforceable. You can ask someone, one would you mind doing x y or Z, but, but to be able to determine or verify if that person is doing those things is almost impossible. And so it just, what we think is going to create less anxiety as intended parents ends up creating more because we can never verify that what we have agreed upon is is actually what's taking place. And so there is just a
00:32:41
Speaker
a constant sense of it's not enough and there needs to be more control and there needs to be more, um more verifying. And it becomes a cycle that really is unhealthy. And so one of the things that I've talked to intended parents about, and I know it's not easy and I know I have failed at doing it, but I still think it's the best is to pick a date, whether that date is the day that you match or the transfer date,
00:33:09
Speaker
but you pick a day where you're going to hand the baton of trust to that g c and then you don't pick it up again. That you're going to trust her and you're going to go through this journey trusting her and you really can't take that back. Now, if someone were to do something,
00:33:28
Speaker
wildly untrustworthy. I can understand where that might be difficult, but for 99% of journeys, surrogates are doing the very best they can to care for your baby the way they they would care for their own. And so just to over and over tell yourself, I trust them, I trust them, I trust them, is the only way to enjoy this journey going forward.
00:33:50
Speaker
I do want to go back to, i think something that's really important because, and matching is kind of one of, is of course, like the beginning of you know, just like you said, developing that trust and that relationship. And it's a really sensitive part of, of surrogacy and you will have agencies that will give you that a hundred percent match, but match doesn't necessarily mean approval.
00:34:17
Speaker
And you kind of talked about that. Are they going, is my surrogate going to be medically approved? um You know, and all of those things. So what do you think, having experienced it and now being, you know, on this side of the industry, what do you think makes a truly aligned match between a surrogate and a hopeful parent?
00:34:40
Speaker
Oh, I mean, medical approval certainly does help. Like even beyond the personality stuff, if a surrogate doesn't meet medical guidelines, it is such a heavy loss on the intended parent side. Not only are you paying your clinic to tell you that, but you're also like just putting in the emotional labor of getting to know that person and building trust with that person only to find out that they were never qualified to begin with. that's That's a really tough one. And so that's actually one of the reasons that our team does so much work on the front end to make sure that we review medical records and we get them directly from the provider to make sure no medical records are missing. And we have a team who goes through those to look for anything that might be a disqualifier so that we're not introducing intended parents to well-meaning, very kind surrogates who actually can't help them. And so that that medical side of it is a big deal. But beyond that, there is so much value in the personality match. And I think that's something that we care a lot about. Like there are there are clear preferences, right? we We don't want to match a surrogate in Idaho with a family who only wants a surrogate in Texas. Location matters. um Lots of families care a lot about Vaccines that a surrogate does or doesn't take, or they care a lot about termination views, and that's super important to decide on the front end.
00:36:08
Speaker
But even after all those matching factors are satisfied, there is so much to a personality fit and figuring out, is this the kind of person that I want to talk to for the next 18 months of my life, minimum?
00:36:20
Speaker
Because minimum, this journey is going to be 18 months before there's a baby in the home, sometimes two years. Are you to have anything to talk about? It's also, i I think a lot of intended parents um underestimate the value of a surrogate's spouse and the role that they play in this journey, and which is why when we have a match meeting, if there's a partner, um it's the surrogate and the partner. If there's a partner, it's the intended parent and the partner. And everybody's on the call because those partners can make this journey awesome or really, really hard. And so we want everybody to have transparency and meet everybody else on the front end to figure out, is this someone that I want to talk to?
00:37:04
Speaker
Is this someone that I could solve a conflict with if there is one? Because the reality is there are going to be surprises. There are zero perfect journeys. And so there are going to be times where Either there's a disagreement or there's a difficult medical diagnosis or there's a complication with providers. And are these people that I could talk through that scenario with? Because that's even more important than do we have anything that we could talk about together? And is this ultimately somebody that I trust to babysit my kid? Would I allow them to babysit my child who's already here?
00:37:41
Speaker
for nine months because they are babysitting your child for nine months. And we want you to feel great about who that person is. And then the same is true on the surrogate side, right? Like, are these people you want to talk to for the next 18 months? yeah Are these people that you trust that you can solve a conflict or a difficult situation and that they would advocate for you?
00:38:01
Speaker
Not just advocate for their own interests, but advocate for your interests in the process. Because if not, it's probably not a good match. And there are other matches out there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think the, the idea of patience when you're already in a scenario that is so, it's so hard. I mean, you said it best you and and Tom in the midst of grief, we're like, Hey, we don't want to be 80 at high school graduation. We've got to get this going. And I mean, it does, it feels so, time sensitive. Every hour feels like it's one more year. And that lack of patience can sometimes lead to
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah. it's fine i'll just deal with it it's fine it's not the yeah good deal and really at the end of the day yes there are may be some things where you're like that doesn't that's not as important as maybe i thought it would be but those big huge things that kind of sit with you those are so important to be aware of as you approach a match what What maybe are some questions that you encourage, you know, intended parents to ask early on as they're kind of building trust and transparency and, you know, just building that relationship?
00:39:25
Speaker
So good. i love when intended parents ask In a match meeting, what kind of communication do you like? Because some people are text messengers and some people feel like a text message is really impersonal. And some people love a phone call and some people feel like they're in trouble if you call them on the phone. And i think it's so important early on to is to just name it.
00:39:48
Speaker
How do you communicate? How do you communicate? How are we as a unit going to communicate with each other so that everybody feels good about it? The other things that ah I think are really important to ask is,
00:40:00
Speaker
if we disagree on something, how do you want to handle that? Do you want me to call you and talk about it? Do you want me to send you a long text message so you can think about your answer and respond? Do you want me to only communicate difficult things through coordinators, which you should, by the way, coordinators are amazing at helping you navigate sticky circumstances.
00:40:20
Speaker
There's never a time to go with a sticky or a difficult conversation around a coordinator that those are the ones that you want help with.
Pre-Transfer Preparations and Preferences
00:40:29
Speaker
um But to have those conversations about what are our rules of engagement early on is so important. um ah i've I've found, and Lauren Palmer, our matching manager, is incredible. She navigates these conversations all the time. The last thing that I think I had a luxury of having because we were local, but I still would advocate that any family have is just time in person.
00:40:55
Speaker
That trust is built face to face. And in those long, annoying stretches before you transfer an embryo, when you're waiting on the clinic and then you're going to transfer day and then you're waiting on legal contracts, if there are opportunities to get face to face and have dinner together, to ride from the airport together, to meet up and have coffee together, to talk about life and not even the journey, to talk about life together, those are golden months where you can build trust
00:41:28
Speaker
Before anything has happened, nothing is complicated before there's a baby involved, right? Before we're pregnant, there are no difficult diagnoses. There are no hard conversations or difficult decisions to make. And so when things are easy, that's the time to put in an effort with FaceTime and showing up more and more phone calls and getting to know each other um that you can kind of build a bridge of trust at that point that is strong enough to sustain hard circumstances later. if they were to come.
00:42:00
Speaker
And I remember our surrogate was so good at this. She kind of led the charge in this way. And I'm so thankful that she did She called me once and she said, um I'd like for us to have coffee. And I would like for us to ask each other this list of questions from the internet that you should ask someone you're planning on dating or marrying. And I was like,
00:42:21
Speaker
What a weird thing to do. And okay. And she had printed a list of questions for the internet for dating couples. I don't remember if it was like questions to ask on a first date or questions to ask when you get married, but it was relationship questions about things like, how do you want to celebrate good things?
00:42:38
Speaker
How do you want to talk about hard things? What does communication look like? How do you build trust? Like all of these things that end up being such a healthy conversation for us to have over coffee that I would have never signed up for or initiated. i don't know that every family should have a list of dating questions that you ask your surrogate. It's weird. um But prioritizing FaceTime and having like just friendship building conversations goes such a long way. Then when
00:43:10
Speaker
there is a difficult circumstance or there is a misunderstanding or somebody does drop the ball or let each other down or communicates in a way that wasn't as good as it could have been. There's already a relational foundation to sustain that moment rather than trying to build it when things are already hard.
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. i think it's, I mean, that's so that's such a major point. I know When I was speaking with surrogates in their very beginning, a lot of times you would ask, you know, some, some of those like questions, um, and they would always, well, whatever the intended parents want and same for intended parents. Oh, whatever she wants. And everyone is just so grateful and happy for each other. and it's one of those things where questions like that of, you know, how do I want to be communicated to you And how do I want to handle bad news? And just having those questions, you know, to think about for yourself is so helpful because at the end of the day, it's one of those, you know, yes, I know right now it's, oh, whatever they want, but is it really truly like whatever they want or do you actually have an opinion in in that? And let's talk about it.
00:44:24
Speaker
Let's be, let's be upfront and transparent about it. So because you've lived this journey yourself, what do you think is important for surrogates to understand about just the emotional world that intended parents are navigating?
00:44:41
Speaker
Oh, this is so good. Because feel like every surrogate I have worked with or had the chance to meet or interview, they such good-hearted people and they just want to help. And sometimes I have heard them say things like, I don't understand why That intended parent doesn't trust me. i am doing everything I can to take care of their baby. Why does they seem like they don't trust me? And the reality is it has nothing to do with you.
00:45:06
Speaker
It has to do with the fact that they don't trust life and the process by which life is created at this point. They have seen all the hard things happen. And there is something in our brain that feels foolish for being hopeful.
00:45:23
Speaker
And every time they reach a milestone that feels more hopeful, you may notice that they get more anxious because that that kind of hope feels really dangerous. And it feels like they're going to get their heart shattered. And um none of, I'll speak for all the intended parents. None of us are our best selves when we come into this. None of us are the healthiest versions of ourselves. And we are so grateful for surrogates who are willing to work with us anyway. And um so Patience, I would say to NEGC, knowing that it it really is not a reflection of how they feel about you. It's a reflection of how they feel about life um and that they still better treat you with respect and kindness. And this is a great moment to reach out to your coordinator if it ever feels off.
00:46:12
Speaker
Because a lot of times when we parents are not at our best selves, we're also not at our most self-aware selves.
Respect and Reflections
00:46:20
Speaker
And so we may think that it feels perfectly normal and fine to you that we're checking in five times a week. And ah we don't know that that felt super weird. um I asked our GC download a kick counter app and share the password with me and so that I could see all the times the baby kicked.
00:46:43
Speaker
And not thinking about how that affected her life, how that how many times a day she was having to stop what she was doing to do the kick counter app. And she was very kind and gracious. But looking back, I'm like, that was a was a pretty out of bounds request. That was a big request that took up a good chunk of her day every day. um and that would have been a great time if she felt you know not great about it. She was super sweet. But um to reach out to our coordinator who would have helped us navigate like, hey,
00:47:13
Speaker
Maybe we don't need to have every day have this kind of data flowing in. um But those are those are the things that I think like any GC should feel respected, cared for, advocated for, and also very patient with those of us who are struggling.
00:47:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. When you look at Everly's impact, stories, arrival, and the work you do every day, how do you see all these chapters coming together in your life now?
00:47:55
Speaker
It really kind of feels like one big story now. And in fact, that's why we named our second daughter story. Our first daughter was named Everly to remind her that every person is made for forever and make people who are made for forever have worth and value. um And our second daughter, her first name is Emrys, which also means made for forever. So they they share forever names, but she goes by her middle name, Story, because we wanted her to remember that regardless of this chapter, the story is good.
00:48:26
Speaker
And your life is going in a good direction, even if this chapter, some chapters are going to feel good, some are going to feel really hard. um But it was almost, that her name was almost a lesson to ourselves of We had been through some really good chapters and some really hard chapters.
00:48:41
Speaker
And it was difficult at times to imagine that the story was good, that there would ever be a headline that said this life story is a good one because we've been through some really hard things. and so now it all feels a little bit woven together in both of our daughters have become this really good life story that results not only in our family being complete, but also in us helping to get to create other happy families and share with them in the hard chapters that, hey, the story can still be good, even if you're in a hard chapter.
00:49:16
Speaker
That's beautiful. For someone listening who is grieving or unsure, or they're just standing at the beginning of the process and they don't even know what to do next, what would you want them to hear today think I would want any parent to know the same thing that I needed to hear, which is if you're willing to just keep going, there will be a baby on the other side of it. And there might be some difficult choices between here and there. It might not be the story that you thought you were going to have. It might be written differently. There might be there might be chapters that involve surrogates and donors and different kinds of family building that seem like
00:50:06
Speaker
It seemed like not as good a storyline.
Hope and Encouragement for Intended Parents
00:50:09
Speaker
But on the other side, there are a whole group of us parents who will tell you that what felt like a not as good story now feels like the best story. That what felt like plan B now feels like plan A for us. That this is how it was meant to be all along. And that that is a possibility for them too.
00:50:29
Speaker
Thank you k Crystal. You were just, i mean, thank you so much for just your honesty, your encouragement. i mean, again, like your lived experience continues to just make such a difference for the families we serve. And i mean...
00:50:46
Speaker
just your voice just continues to remind so many parents that they are not alone in this. And there is a whole group of parents that have been down this road are going down this road. And for a journey that can feel like you're on an Island, you do such a beautiful job of reminding everybody that they are not the only one. and I am so grateful for all the ways that you love on these amazing parents and surrogates that we get to work with. My last question for you, you know, that it's coming me and coffee.
00:51:21
Speaker
She and I two peas in a pod. Cheers. girl I'm ready. What has filled your cup literally or figuratively? What has been the thing that has filled your cup?
00:51:35
Speaker
So my tiny human story, um started talking all at once. I think some kids babble and say a few words. She just picked up all the words and started saying them all the time. And andds um it's such a such a sweet thing to talk about. But my career before this is I was a professional writer and the words are a big deal to me. And I always kind of wondered would I have a child who loved language or who hated language and You know, is that the sort of thing that gets passed on? Is that environmental? How does all of that work? And so to see her fall in love with words and want to learn them, want to learn them in English, want to learn them in Spanish, want to learn them in Chinese. She wants to learn all the words and she wants to say them all all the time, um which is candidly, I'm an introvert. It's a little exhausting from time to time, but it is such a cup filler to see her
00:52:32
Speaker
every day come up and say new words and be so excited that she knows them. So that's been really fun. That's beautiful. Have you been keeping track of the words that you like refuse to fix?
00:52:46
Speaker
um that That's so good. um Yeah. Cucumber is kukimolo and I hope she calls it a kukimolo for the rest of her life. Beautiful. Done and done. Yes. it's The best. Oh, that is the best. our one of my favorites was, um, for my kiddos, it was a restaurant.
00:53:06
Speaker
oh must That is the best. It is. It is. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. And it just, I mean, it really, it makes, it's those little things. Like that's the joy. And that is the joy that I'm so excited that we get to bring it to other people. um And again, thank you.
00:53:27
Speaker
What can I share one last thing? this billy me Because I just thought about it with our words and I would be so sad not to talk about it. um So we read books a lot. Her name is story. So we, we read lots of stories. Um, but we, she has just become interested. We've always read the very kind koala, which is a story about surrogacy, but she just now is interested in the very kind koala. And so she brings me the koala book multiple times a day. i would not mind putting it down at this point, but she brings me the koala book and she will talk about the very kind koala and talk about how mommy is sad. And mommy went to a doctor and the very kind koala offered to carry a baby in her pouch. And now she has started to name the characters after our surrogate and her husband appears and their children appear. And so she has connected the very kind koala to our own family story. And I cannot get enough of it.
00:54:24
Speaker
That is so beautiful. And what an amazing celebration of just her story and what made her. oh that's beautiful. I love that so much. ah Words and stories are the best. best. The best. i theest Crystal, thank you again, just for all of you do all that you do. And, um, I just could not be more grateful that your own journey that started from where it was in grief and just not knowing what to do next has resulted in you being here to just guide and give wisdom to other parents as they start their own journey. So thank you for everything that you do.
00:55:11
Speaker
thank you friend