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Ep. 259 – 11 Counts of Peeping Tom w/ George Azar of My Gay Church Days
335 Plays1 month ago
This week we’re excited to welcome back author, CPA, and bastion of positive vibes, our friend George Azar! George joins us to revisit one of our favorite news stories of the last year, that of Kendrick Oakley – pastor, candid photographer, and general pervert who was arrested after repeatedly taking upskirt photos of women in a Hobby Lobby in Tulsa. Then we’ll revisit our favorite subreddit, r/christiandatingadvice. George is a financial wizard and has started a new page dedicated to his CPA work. Follow him on Instagram (@georgethe.cpa) and check out his book My Gay Church Days!
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Transcript
Male Equivalent of Upskirt Photos: A Humorous Take
00:00:00
Speaker
I kind of want to hang out with this dude. Yeah. What is the male equivalent of ah like upskirt photos? Like, is it just like you youre bone hawking somebody at the urinal or what?
00:00:13
Speaker
I don't think that that's even a thing. ah unless Unless the gays are involved in some interesting shit, George. Do you have any insider information on that? I'm like, is there like a glory hole? or like yeah That's the funny thing. like but It's interesting. it's it's not a It's not a straight issue. It's not a gay issue. It's a man issue. Like, it's a porndog.
Introducing George Azar and 'My Gay Church Days'
00:00:56
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And today we are joined by our old friend, George Azar. What's up, man?
00:01:09
Speaker
How's it going? Is Azar or Azar? Azar, you got it on the first one. Yeah, sometimes it's one of those things you don't think to verify. And then you're like, yeah, I've been saying it in my head this way for years. And that's what it is, forever.
00:01:22
Speaker
um But yeah, so man, it has been a really long time since we've, since we've talked. um i meant I always mean to go back and look at when we had a previous guest on, but um you might have a better idea of what it is because we talked to you shortly after the launch of your book, My Gay Church Days.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. right Oh, sorry about that. My audio. Okay, there we I'm a mess. Sorry, my audio. You're good, man. It's all good. but what So you know what when was that?
00:01:59
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. That was back in 2021? twenty one twenty two No, Yeah, we to him since then because I think you were working on maybe a re... Yes.
00:02:10
Speaker
You were going to put out an updated version or something like that, I think, at the time. That's right. That's right. It's funny because like, you're right. Like when we were talking, like I have been MIA with my gay church days and I'm so sorry to everybody because like, I don't know, life just got ahead of me. Like I started doing stuff on ta like my my tax account and it got to a point where like I...
George Azar: TikTok and Challenges of Book Writing
00:02:32
Speaker
it was becoming a lot all at once, like, especially doing the second version, like in like revisiting the stories. And like, I realized that like, it was just it was bringing up stuff from that I hadn't really dealt with, you know, like, yeah, really. And so I just took a break from it. And I just went, I went, I went to tick tock hell. um ah And then the election happened and it was, you know, it was all over. But yeah, no, I think last week, you're right. We were, we, last time we were, I was on, i was still writing version two. It's done now, but like I haven't done anything with it. I'm just sitting on it.
Christian Market Satire and Personal Stories
00:03:11
Speaker
is this, is this the one where you come out as a closeted straight?
00:03:15
Speaker
Yes, exactly. When turning point came to my front door and asked me if I wanted to join and yeah, it's good that would honestly if that was the route you went you could make if you don't have integrity you could make millions in the Christian market dude oh yeah Miko or whatever Milo the Milo and you really you need to find yourself like a like a very angular praying mantis looking surgery scarred MAGA wife you know that like wears an apron and makes pies that no one eats
00:03:53
Speaker
Like the South Park one. the the put the date to do it wouldn't You just make a bunch of little kids that you hate. yeah They're just little brats that run around and ruin everything. And you're like, oh my God, they're so sweet.
00:04:09
Speaker
ah My little terrorist.
00:04:14
Speaker
You just need to get like, like you're a good looking guy, but there you're, but there's a specific type of look for entering into that type of conservative hell where you, you do, even if you don't need it, like you do have to get some work done. So like, you know, whether it's the cheekbones or the lip injection, like whatever the eyeliner, maybe just so do a little bit of JD Vance eyeliner um And they will they'll welcome you with open arm like the Coke Zero version of an SS uniform. Yeah, right. I could do the Michael Jackson ah bleaching and all of that. i mean, the Middle Eastern, and I'm already out of the race for that one. But yeah, that's tough. But if you're like, you could just you could just erase all that background and just say you're white.
00:05:02
Speaker
And that might
Crypto and NFT Adventures: Stories of Missed Opportunities
00:05:03
Speaker
help. Like ah they they really appreciate like white passing people, you know. ah Okay, fine. let me Let me think about it. Maybe on the next podcast I can promote it. How's that sound? Yeah, I mean, i like I'd like to see that transformation. like You start doing a lot of like ah just like shitting on your cultural background. If you do that enough, dude, they are... i mean, you are ripe fruit for the picking.
00:05:30
Speaker
ah I could become the director of the FBI? You could easily. I mean, Kash Patel is still a little too brown for MAGA to really buy in. um right you you you might ah You might have a career, man, in the FBI. I could see that working out really well.
00:05:48
Speaker
It is the R of Earth. Oh, definitely. That's all that's left of the American dream is like the American dream is now just like like dreaming up a great scam. Like you're the first guy to think of nftts Yeah, yeah. Oh, that could be a good one. NFTs 2.0. We could do like imaginary artwork. Like we just say that it's there. AI NFTs.
00:06:16
Speaker
there was ah There's this account that I follow, and he but I can't remember what his name is, but he posts a lot of good, like he'll post like these compilations. And the one that he did like yesterday was just ah screenshots of people talking about what they paid for their and NFT and what its market value is now.
00:06:35
Speaker
and it's like, it's like a whole bunch of dudes that bought like those eight pictures. And I mean, they're literally worthless now. Literally. I didn't even know. I saw you post that. I didn't even know what those eight pictures were. That was a, I thought that was like a joke post. Is that like, that's dead ass. Like he spent millions on that.
00:06:55
Speaker
Oh, that was like the top NFT at the time. i think. Right. That's so goofy. First tweet. Was it that one? What's it called? Was it, was what didn't Jack Dorsey?
00:07:06
Speaker
Wasn't that the first one that his first tweet or something like that? Oh, he did. Yeah, he did do that. um don't know. I think in terms of like artwork, the ape, those eight pictures were like the ones that took off the most, but there was a bunch of them.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, there was a guy on there, like, he spent like $10 million dollars on one of those. And he said its market value is $230. And thirty bucks or even that, I'm just not 100% confident that he could get that for us.
00:07:35
Speaker
Turns out those tokens were pretty fungible. Wow. You know what, though? I feel like it's like Bitcoin, where, like, if you can get in at the $230 and just wait a decade, and because they make it may come back, you know? Like, I feel like that was like Bitcoin.
00:07:50
Speaker
Like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards. yeah Every time I'm like, i'm I'm feeling a little too good about myself. I think about the the conversation that April and had in like 2011, where I was like, I think I'm going to get it.
00:08:04
Speaker
i think I understand this Bitcoin thing. i think I'm going to buy some. And then I looked at it and I was like, oh, well, it's $1,800. Like, I'm out. I'm not doing it.
00:08:16
Speaker
just like i you If I wouldve just bought one, what and can pay off my house. Yeah. Right. Well, I remember because like, I think it was in 2006, I was looking at them too, but you had to download them. Like it wasn't like, you know, like a market where you could like, ah like a, like a brokerage account you had because you had to like,
00:08:35
Speaker
I don't know. it had to like save your hard drive or something. And like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Little wallets. Your wallet. Yeah. I, I never understood it, so I just didn't bother. And then it became like app friendly. Right. And everyone had their crypto wallet on their like the the app versions of crypto wallets. And and.
00:08:54
Speaker
My brother-in-law was like, you need to get everyone needs to buy quant quant was like that was a several years ago. And what it I mean, it did the same thing that a lot do where it just went up and up and up and up and up and up and up. And like, I mean, I think my brother-in-law could have like I think he could have increased his payout like 20 fold from when he bought it. Wow. but they just keep waiting and now it's just now it's just in a
Crypto Security and Financial Cautionary Tales
00:09:22
Speaker
toilet. It's just it's never going to be what it was. yeah yeah
00:09:25
Speaker
And so you just keep holding to it. That's the last scam that I bought into. I'm i'm pretty determined to not do this again. because the I lost a bunch of money on it. The the idea is like...
00:09:36
Speaker
It was the idea of it was it was supposed to be a stable market like gold, you know. But then when people kind of figured out what was going on with it, it just became a quick like you just buy a bunch and then dump it six months later when it goes up. And when you once you create a market where everyone's just buying and dumping like that, it just doesn't nothing's going to hold strong at all.
00:09:56
Speaker
Right. And that's ah that was the thing about it when I because i had clients that would say like, oh, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to divest everything and buy crypto and crypto. Like, it's not backed. by anything like it's it's it's a digital currency that has no power behind it it's like at least the dollar well yeah used to yeah i know we can't even as everybody like as every country just dumps the dollar as like the universal currency you know As we've lost 10% of our net worth in the past, like we've lost 10% of our salary in the past nine months. all Right. Yeah. You open up like the Fort Knox vault and it's just a pile of IOUs from Don jr. That's 550 million. Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
That you're going to want to that one. Yeah. that's five hundred and fifty million Yeah. that you're gonna want to keep that one yeah just Just it being his his handwritten note is going to be worth money someday because he's so valuable.
00:10:54
Speaker
Dude, and so without without going into it i'm gonna I'm not going to bore everyone with this story. But like I always am like a day late to all of ah everything like this that I try. you know And I'm never interested enough in like the meat of it to really like figure it out and do research and be smart about it. I just am like, oh, maybe money. Here, take mine.
00:11:17
Speaker
yeah And maybe more will come out. Like I treat it like a vending machine. So I didn't understand like the exchange versus crypto wallets, you know, and like wallets are secure. You don't want to keep your your coins and stuff like that. You don't want them on in a exchange, like just hanging out in Coinbase or whatever. You want to put in them in a wallet. I didn't really look into that a whole lot and stuff. So does putting it in a wallet maintain their value or something?
00:11:46
Speaker
Well, it just makes them like you're you're fully in charge of what happens to them. Because see, what happened with mine is I was in an, I had mine all tied up in an exchange. And then that exchange went belly up around the time that like Sam Bankman freed's you know, fell apart and stuff. Mine went, went defunct. And so they locked down the exchange and I couldn't touch my assets in there.
00:12:14
Speaker
I probably close to a year and a half. I couldn't do anything with them. And meanwhile, like the whole bottom just fell out of the whole thing, you know, and then they finally went through like settlement, you know, like litigation and everything. And they're, they're basically said like, okay, um, well cash is gone.
00:12:32
Speaker
Uh, but we were, we are going to allow you to transfer one third of your total assets out of your account and into a wallet. And that's your, so that's so generous.
00:12:45
Speaker
it wasn't bad it It was bad enough that like I bought and held onto it for too long and it all fell apart. But then on top of that, I only got a third of what I had originally had.
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. like yeah It was just, it's shame on me. Where is that now? Where is that crypto now? Is it still just hanging out? in my wallet, depreciating. Depreciating.
00:13:09
Speaker
Let's see what it's worth. All it takes is for Trump to say like one thing, Trump to say or do one thing for it to like have a like a momentary spike. Because that's where we're at with our current and economy is like he he says one thing about a business and their like stock portfolio plummets like 30 percent. And then, you know, a few months later, it's just back to where it was. But yeah, we we down boys.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah. It's just withering away. Withering away. What do you got there? It's like $1,700. $1,700, which means you originally put in $10,000? Yeah. no. Oh, man.
00:13:50
Speaker
sure yeah no man ah oh So, yeah, like considering that I blew money like that on, ah on you know, Shiba Inu coin and whatnot, paying for my dog's leg surgery doesn't sound so bad.
00:14:14
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day, you don't have, I spend that, I spend probably what you put on crypto on my kids a year. You know, like at the end of the day. Yeah, that's a bad investment. That's your children. Those are your children. You have 1,700 children a crypto wallet.
00:14:30
Speaker
your Your children are in your house. My children are wandering around the dark web. That's right.
Political Shifts: Minneapolis and Second Amendment
00:14:40
Speaker
interlucid affairs uh
00:14:46
Speaker
ah okay i want to shift the conversation because obviously the big story right now is everything going on in minneapolis um but i want to direct this question towards you casey because you're my true boots on the ground uh in touch with conservatives And I feel like you're the old, like, I don't have that type of ah secondary contact with people in that world um who like, I, of course, being who we are, we are all familiar with like the evangelicals that never really seem to break rank on any topic of any of anything ever. Um, so that, that, I don't really count that. Um, but you've talked a lot about the people that you know in your life who are like, I don't really know about some of this stuff that's going on right now. Um, and like with, with the shooting in Minneapolis of pretty, it's like this, this,
00:15:46
Speaker
big conversation around second amendment, second amendment rights versus protesting versus being a a liberal or a leftist or whatever, what have you. um Have you had like any conversations or experience with like how people are feeling about this and the way it's being presented?
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah. And surprisingly, the only friend of mine that said, that said like, know, paraphrasing like, well, you get what you deserve was George. Yeah. Damn, George. What the fuck, man? You told you said you weren't going to bring that up on the podcast. Oh, that was private. That was private. It was between us.
00:16:25
Speaker
ah No, that one is not going over well. OK, that's good to hear. but And it's it's like there's multiple reasons why. But like even if you're just like you hate protesting of any sort and like any sort of, you know, anything but just like laying on the ground while they tase you quietly and respectfully um is is, you know, deserving of a death sentence or whatever. Like even for those guys, the the Second Amendment part of this is like a real deal breaker for them.
00:16:59
Speaker
That's nice to hear. Yeah. because I mean, he was lawfully carrying, you know, he had a permit. He was lawfully carrying his gun. It's legal there. Right. There was nothing wrong with anything about like his, you know, his concealed carry or any of that type of stuff. And then to hear like the director of the FBI and stuff be like, you know, there's no reason to have a gun. Only bad guys bring guns to protest and this and that and the other, especially after that same beady eyed moron raised money for Kyle Rittenhouse. Right, right.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's the most salient aspect of this is like the juxtaposition of Kyle Rittenhouse versus this guy um who was just legitimately concealed carrying. um I have some friends who are big two way people and they're not conservatives.
00:17:50
Speaker
They're not leftists. They're not liberal. They kind of just, I don't even want to say they're libertarians. I don't feel like I, I wouldn't be able to necessarily identify their, their political leanings other than they think that what's going on right now is total tomfoolery. But yeah,
00:18:06
Speaker
but like with With a couple of the people I know, they're like, look, I think what Kyle Rittenhouse did was insanely fucked up, but like they they'll they'll concede that the judge's ruling or that the outcome was fair based on based on the legalities. I don't know enough to say it either way, to speak to it either way, but it's just like, even still, like even with that being the case, it's like, what do we... like that For him to be loud like loud as a hero and then immediately be like pulled into you know the RNC and like be a keynote speaker and shit like that. And then yeah ah none of it makes sense. Or even January 6th. It's like all those people showed up who – everyone who showed up with weapons, like everyone who assaulted officers. like data hours This is why it's so fucking annoying after all this time. fighters.
00:19:00
Speaker
yeah they're just like they won't stop like they just all they all like pam bondy does all everyone does is just talk out their ass about it and then just ignore like the the tip for them to be like oh you shouldn't have done x y and z and you're like that's literally what the people did who were pardoned by your by this president and it's just like and you and you don't say anything about it. like it's The two-facedness is like... it's just It feels like you're in... like just
00:19:31
Speaker
The gaslighting never ends and it's aggravating that people buy into it because at this point in my life, I, I don't know what conservative is like so conservatives have moved the line so much. Like what now when Democrats are all like, Hey, well, you know, we got to meet in the middle and do some bipartisan shit. It's like, yeah, but these bitches have moved the goalposts so much to the far right that when you meet them in the middle, you're still fucking crazy.
00:19:58
Speaker
Republican is fuck. like it just it It doesn't stop. like You're still so far to the right when you meet them in the middle that they've poll they've even pulled liberals or Democrats to so far the right that like we like we can't get out of
MAGA Fracturing and Political Implications
00:20:13
Speaker
it.
00:20:13
Speaker
and it's just I think that's why I'm pretty unified on most things. Yeah, unfortunately. Israel, right? but but yeah he is it is it like Is it just a two-way issue? like What did they think about Renee Goode?
00:20:27
Speaker
I think it's – so – and I don't know if this is like popular opinion, but based on what I'm hearing from people in my life, I think MAGA is fracturing. Yeah. and And a lot of the people that I've talked to, like they were definitely more – they were more lenient on the Renee Good situation than they were on the Alex Peretti. Yeah. Just because – just because like they look at that and they're like, Oh, she's being annoying.
00:20:59
Speaker
Like she's starting on that foot. She's like walking the road and she's being annoying. But you know, even, even the people that I talked to about it though, like, I don't think I heard anybody that was just that, that parroted like the regime's talking points on it that like, Oh, she put his life in danger. She tried to run him over. You know, it was a justified shooting. Like they're not selling this well.
00:21:21
Speaker
No, yeah. alex peretti one is is definitely like there's it's very skewed towards i mean i've heard several conservatives say this is just straight up murder i mean and it's so blatant at this point that like the And the polish is really coming off of MAGA as a whole anyways. Like it's hard to look at it and see any sort of like unifying principles or anything when they're, you know, we're given a $20 billion dollars loan to, ah to Argentina for whatever reason. And we're importing their beef and we're, you know, and propping up all these people all over the place, talking about spending a bunch of money on Greenland for whatever reason, like,
00:22:01
Speaker
it's not they're not selling it well anymore. What scares me, though, is like what replaces that? Like obviously J.D. Vance has like the the personality of a couch like he just exudes like no energy, but like he is what he eats.
00:22:17
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. But like, Cossie. this is usually This is usually a time where like someone steps in and fills in that void, and that's what I'm afraid of. like or Or is there just so much infighting that it's just going to crumble?
Conspiracy Theories and Media Reactions
00:22:34
Speaker
I think it's going to be really – I mean ah part of the reason why Trump is still at the forefront of MAGA is they just have not found anybody to take his place. you know Because I mean if you remember like looking back at – if you look back at things in like 2023, he was not popular even within the base. Like they still had this kind of like old-timey remember-when affinity for him. But most of them at the time were saying like, yeah, I think he should step aside and let somebody else run.
00:23:03
Speaker
You know, he built that coalition up throughout the campaign. And then when you know that quote-unquote assassination attempt happened that pretty much sealed the deal ah well it's funny about that like with the ilan omar thing you know with with the spray and stuff so he makes this comment of like you know oh she she had them do it i'm like doesn't that also apply to the supposed shooter like i know yeah like uh he who smelt it dealt it buddy right so
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, that one hasn't gone down super well. like i a lot of people A lot of people are still like, you know, buy into the the whole... attempted assassination thing but man like none of that feels really it's so hard to feel like we live in a world where that was made up like it used to be there used to the good old days of america was when assassination attempts were real and now you just can't trust anything i miss when our politicians were actually getting killed by psychopaths and that was such a better time in this country I actually say, I was like, I hate when he's turned me into a conspiracy theorist. Like, I hate it. like it
00:24:13
Speaker
You can't help it anymore, dude. Oh, everything's bullshit. There's no explanation for, like, so much of what's going on. Like, that assassination. There's no info about the guy who shot him. Nothing.
00:24:25
Speaker
He's a Gen Zer with no social media pla like pages or anything. He's in a BlackRock commercial for some reason. Like, what? Do I dare bring up everything or that too cause like dude did Charlie the Charlie Kirk. I can't.
00:24:39
Speaker
I'm scared to know how many hours I've spent listening to stuff about the Charlie Kirk assassination. And I don't care about Charlie Kirk at all. You know, but like I keep watching it. It's just there every day. It's.
00:24:52
Speaker
me
00:24:57
Speaker
No, that that that's the truest statement you've made so far. Did you guys hear the leaked like the ah the leaked audio from ah the like organizational call that they did? It was like two weeks after the assassination.
00:25:12
Speaker
No. it's So it's like some sort of Zoom call. and it There's going to be a bunch of this stuff now because they're firing they're mass firing. like All these people that they see is not loyal enough or whatever with no explanation. So... We're going to be inundated with whistleblowers from TPUSA. Yeah. But yeah, somebody put out audio from this Zoom call or whatever that they did after. It was like two weeks after the assassination, after they did the big memorial service. And Erica Kirk is like, you know, directing it. She's like, wow, guys, I just...
00:25:45
Speaker
It's amazing what this team was able to bring together. We had X numbers of millions of people that watched the memorial service. Our merch sales are through the roof. We've sold blah, blah, blah in merch. Like she's spouting numbers about like her dead husband's memorial service. yeah It's so icky.
00:26:05
Speaker
Like that whole thing's so icky. It's like, if my, I just keep thinking like, if if my dad died and my mom treated him like this, i would I don't know if I can forgive her. Like, it right it's just so unbelievably gross.
00:26:21
Speaker
Right. Well, even, I mean, even looking at the video, like, and this is where the conspiracy theorist comes to me. I had to stop watching because I'm like, I hate where this is taking me. But, like, you watch, like, bodyguards and they, like, grab something. you know, there's just, like, there's, like, little things that, like, it's almost like they were expecting it. And then how, like, the merch sale, like, the merch, like, popped up within, like,
00:26:44
Speaker
I think it was like hour not even hours after his like shoot like the shooting not to his death and so it's like all these little things where it's just like this doesn't feel right like there's something yeah It was like his chief of staff or whatever is like standing at, at you know, stage left and just watching. And as soon as his head explodes, he just like picks up his phone and kind of waltzes off. Right. Somebody.
00:27:11
Speaker
Right. i don't know who. Right. But like there's so dude, there's that's the thing with that is like there are so many things that don't make sense or that are like very weird to the outside
Scandals and Faith in the Church
00:27:23
Speaker
observer. Right. That like, and I don't, i mean, there's no conclusions, you know? I mean, it kind of seems if I was putting money on it, my theory, well, first off, I don't think that the furry kid or whatever that that they pinned it on, i don't think he had anything to do with it.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah I think my conspiracy theory angle on it is I think he had a lapel mic on that exploded. Oh, I, I, I generally buy into that one as well.
00:27:55
Speaker
Without the exit wound, the way. Yeah, there's, there's ah there's a lot about that one that makes sense to me that it was. Yeah. Cause wasn't it like super windy that day or something? And like, I mean the fact that he like, cause he was, what was it like 200 feet or something away? Supposedly like 300 yards. yards,
00:28:14
Speaker
wow yeah two yeah you two hundred yards is I know there's like, that's the thing that's, dude, gun people are the most, as as a person who does all of that stuff, gun people are the most annoying people in the world. And like, immediately there's all these guys being like 200 yards is nothing. Anybody can make a 200 yard headshot. It's not that big of a deal.
00:28:35
Speaker
No, it's not. It's difficult. Okay. If you don't shoot all the time and stuff like that is not an easy thing to do. And like the ballistic side of it, like they say, you know, he got shot with a 30 odd six round, which is like 160, 180 grain bullet. But like, there's no exit wound, like his spinal column stopped.
00:28:56
Speaker
None of it makes any sense. Yeah. It's all ridiculous. Yeah. and I don't know. I don't want to watch that video, you know, but like, when you when you do it looks like when he's hit, like his shirt moves forward.
00:29:11
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. i See, that's how they get you. There's just like no reason to like wallow around in that crap. But like, that's where I'm at. And I yeah like they're they're banking on people not wanting to watch the actual death of a human over and over and over again to pick it apart. That's what they're there. So they're banking on because that's what their people do.
00:29:30
Speaker
but yeah Yeah. Where's going on when you need them? I am going to shift our conversation because I got some stuff we want to talk about.
00:29:41
Speaker
Excuse me, or get into. So, Casey, um I brought this one. I know you'll be a little out of the loop here, George, but a couple months ago, some of the things we like to look at here are pastors who have been arrested.
00:30:00
Speaker
And um in some good Christian dating advice. So those are those are kind of what we waffle between. There's a lot of really good content out there, of people seeking advice from good Christian people when they're in a conundrum about whether or not they should...
00:30:16
Speaker
engage in sexual activity with their boyfriend who has promised them that they're a man of the Lord. ah and also, you know, there's no shortage of past. He's getting arrested. If anything will shatter your face, if anything could shatter your, if shadow your faith, it is going on, ah the subreddit of, um,
00:30:37
Speaker
excuse me, pastors arrested, uh, because about every seven to 12 hours, there's a new pastor who's been arrested. Um, I say this all the time when we have people on and we get into it, but I'll say it again. ah like we try to avoid some of the, the really egregious sexual malfeasance. Um,
00:30:58
Speaker
And it's taking a toll on my spirit because I, so I sift through about four. I, every time I find an article. Yeah. Every time I find an article that's good for the pod, um, there's usually about 45 pastors who arrested for like sexually assaulting or raping. And I just joined that subreddit. And the first three so posts are that it's like three different molestation. case I've, I've actually thought about, um,
00:31:26
Speaker
Like, you know, just going through and say they're egregious headlines and it's hard to stomach. But like I talk about this, but I to prove my point, I've thought about just going through um the subreddit and just reading all the headlines until I get to one that's actually like.
00:31:43
Speaker
something we might want to use. Occasionally we do dip in to the the pool of sexual malfeasance if there's something certainly peculiar about it. And that's what we are doing today, my friend. I am, I do apologize, but a couple months ago, Casey and I talked about a man who was arrested for trying to take upskirts at a Hobby Lobby.
00:32:07
Speaker
Um, Remember him, Casey? Wholesome. ah Not a lot of new information, but um Kendrick Oakley, a former Claremont pastor. I just, you know, we don't always get into the business of closure here.
00:32:23
Speaker
So I'm offering our listeners some closure on Kendrick Oakley, a former Claremont pastor who pled guilty to attempting to touch and take photos up a woman's skirt at a local Hobby Lobby.
00:32:36
Speaker
He faced charges for following a woman around the Tulsa Hobby Lobby and attempting to record up her skirt 11 times in 16 minutes back in July of 2024. That's crazy. Poison risk tanker.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah. Clearly. It's like if he if he could. If he could have like shifted his focus, like it like that, that he like you said, clearly a risk taker.
00:33:04
Speaker
ah He's got the gumption to do something. He just misdirected his energy, really. ah You know, that type of risk taking is great in the financial world. If you're dealing with, you know, like the pensions of everyday Americans, ah that would have been probably a much better way to like engage in that type of behavior.
00:33:27
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Does it say which section he was in? Like, was he next to the, was he next to the wood burning equipment or the like towel racks that look like deputy badges or what? No, they don't. Pretty nondescript about the section.
00:33:42
Speaker
ah But Oakley was charged with one count of sexual battery, which is later amended to assault with intent to commit a felony and 11 counts of peeping Tom, which I think we talked about before. That's charge? Peeping Tom is a charge. That's pretty cool. You've been charged with peeping Tom.
00:34:00
Speaker
I did watch the videos of him being like accosted by ah like news people, like field. What do you call those people? The people are in the field.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, field reporter. Thanks, George. ah And that guy is cool as a cucumber. He is unsuspecting. when you When you scroll through all the people who engage in bizarre sexual activity, you see their face and you go, I'm not surprised. This guy. He's a little brazen. This guy looks great.
00:34:33
Speaker
He's hiding under a bushel. he a Tall, thin, black man, shaved sides of his head, like really crisp dreads. at the Yeah, he's like a good looking guy, if I remember, He looks so unsuspecting. that One of the things we brought up here plenty after, you know, this is anecdotal, but this is my personal research without any sources cited. i 98% of the people who do shit like this are like creepy older white dudes almost every time. yeah he's handsome Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like nothing about him looks creepy, seems creepy. Like even the way he addresses the people who are like, you've been in charged with blah, blah, blah. What do you have to say for that? He's just like, no comment.
00:35:19
Speaker
like chill as fuck about it. And ah I don't know. It makes me believe they might've got the wrong guy still. ah I know they have them on video, so they didn't, but his demeanor, his presentation, his look, his vibe. I'm like, I kind of want to hang out with this dude. Yeah. What is the male equivalent of ah like upskirt photos?
00:35:40
Speaker
Like, is it just like you you're bone hawking somebody at the urinal or what? I don't think that that's even a thing.
00:35:50
Speaker
unless Unless the gays are involved in some interesting shit, George. you have any insider information on that? I'm like, is there like a glory hole? or like yeah That's the funny thing. like but It's interesting. it's it's not a It's not a straight issue. It's not a gay issue. It's a man issue. Like, it's a porndog. Like, you know, like like the men, like, you know,
00:36:14
Speaker
you know, not, not to downplay essay or anything like that, but like in, when you go to a gay club, you, you are you are expected to have your ass touched once, you know, at least at a minimum, like, and and it doesn't excuse the behavior. Like, it's just, it is what it is in that, in that regard. So like with men, like it just, I feel like they overly sexual. Like, it's just like, don't know. Yeah. I imagine that amps up when you go to a place where it's mostly gay men who are interested in like things that men are interested in. Then it really like ups the ante.
00:36:54
Speaker
Right. Oh my gosh, I'm looking at the the poor victim. like I just opened my phone and my crypto has dropped $10 more. Since we spoke.
00:37:05
Speaker
Can you imagine just 11 times in 16 minutes someone following you around thinking they're being discreet about it? That's insane. Oh my god. I can't imagine like what that woman was going through.
00:37:18
Speaker
That's terrifying. I can't imagine what women go through in this world. It's got to be a terrifying place. Right. and And you're right. like it's It's a Hobby Lobby. It's not like it is, you know. It's Christian. You're supposed to be Christian if you go to Hobby Lobby. It's already the worst store out there.
00:37:33
Speaker
ah i don't know. Every time I go to a Michael's, I feel like I might want to kill myself as soon as I walk out. There's a depressing vibe to Michael's. There is actually. It is Yeah. It's like the the bear. wall Like it's something there's something about like there's a lot of shit, but it's empty. Like it just says it feels weird. Like Michael's should be the number one doctor prescribed treatment when you're having a manic episode.
00:38:03
Speaker
kanye Kanye probably would have been able to like ride out this whole nonsense he's been up to for the past few years if he just went into a Michaels whenever he got that energy. just Just close the door behind him and just leave him in there for a couple days.
00:38:19
Speaker
So ah that's it. That's it for our boy Oakley. He pled guilty. he is ah He'll be serving some time now. um Goodbye, Oakley.
00:38:30
Speaker
yeah I'm sure he'll get the equivalent treatment in jail. But I got one special for you, um George, because I found some financial malfeasance and I how much that grinds your gears. ah As a CPA, you you get oh you get really turned up over financial malfeasance.
00:38:52
Speaker
yeah So, ah this was in Florida, of all places. oh yeah. Given. Given. I like the yeah the image for it. It's like sometimes they just post a picture of the dude's face, but this is like an AI generated photo of tax documents with $100 bills on top of it and then a pair of handcuffs on top of that.
00:39:14
Speaker
Oh, that's the stock image? Yeah, it's great. Pretty good. They worked really hard on that. Thanks, Clippy. yeah clippy This is ah Brian Karn Jr. He admitted to underreporting his income and filing false tax returns. How angry are you right now, George?
00:39:33
Speaker
I mean, it's very common, to be honest. Yeah. Do you have to look? I know there's only a limit to what you could say here and we can just move on immediately. um Is that something that you come up against where you're like, listen, you're actually entirely wrong about what you've done and I can't in good conscience like work with you?
00:39:54
Speaker
I have. There's been a couple clients where I've been like, absolutely not there. I can't, I can't explain the situation because they were a client of mine for a couple years. And, yeah,
00:40:05
Speaker
They they were trying to do something super shady. And as a practitioner, we we have like we have a moral standard. Like we can't, you know, do something knowing that they're doing something. So I informed him. I was like, look, this is the law. You can't do this.
00:40:20
Speaker
And he said, well, I want to do it anyway. And I said, you can go to someone else. You can go to TurboTax. Exactly. They'll help you with that. I'm not testifying on your behalf in a year, dummy. What is your legal responsibility there? Like if, if it's hard to be like, I didn't know. Cause that's your job, but I like, there's so much financial malfeasance out there.
00:40:42
Speaker
um What does that look? I mean, what is that? What does that look like on your, cause like as an individual, I'm always like, what if I get audited now? I won't. And if I do, it won't be a big deal because at the very least I messed up basically nothing.
00:40:57
Speaker
um But like, it comes up. We're like, oh, what do we say? Do we say this or do we say that? Does this technically qualify? And sometimes you go, oh, we'll just go for it.
00:41:08
Speaker
And because of my tax bracket, I'm really unlikely to be audited. But what is it? ah Yeah. What is that like the responsibility on your end look like? So we so that's why like engagement letters are so important. So we ah basically say like we trust what you tell us.
00:41:25
Speaker
So if if the client withholds the information and we don't know about it, it depends on the circumstances. So like if they say that, you know, they did, you know, child dependent care, and they give us the information, and we put it in and it's a fake one. That's obviously on the client. But like, if we did it, knowing that it was wrong, then because we signed the return under penalty of perjury, we could be held liable for that. Okay. So yeah, it's it's all it comes down to like, you know, if you don't tell us and we don't know about it, but like, if it's something obvious, then it's like we would be held responsible.
00:41:58
Speaker
So you start every every meeting with a client off with, if you don't tell us, we don't know about it. That's the first thing you say to them? That's pretty much the engagement letter. It's like, look, like we're doing it based off of our best understanding. Because like we have ah we have a particular due diligence like where we have to ask certain questions.
00:42:15
Speaker
you know Like, did you earn cash income or something like that? you know So we have to ask right up front. um And if they say And then you a big... a big wink right afterwards exactly exactly right it's funny because i see a lot of these like creators that are like posting like don't pay your taxes and da da da and like it's that kind of shit where that really grinds my gears because i'm like stop telling people like like you know there's this movement now and it's like you know good intentions but really horrible but they're like you know claim exempt on your on your w2 and it's like
00:42:47
Speaker
That's not how it works. Like there's very specific requirements and very small groups of people who are exempt. So now those people are going to owe their taxes when they file their tax return with penalties and interest underpayment. So it's like it's it's that's the yeah kind of shit that really bothers me. You're like, oh, yeah, make over a billion dollars. And they say no. You're like, oh, then you owe taxes. I mean, it's just that simple.
00:43:11
Speaker
dude it is, it is, a everybody's been in this situation where your dumbest friend is explaining the like game genie tax cheat codes that they just found out about. and and And doing so in a way, like, I can't believe you don't know about this. What are you dumb? You're just like, dude.
00:43:34
Speaker
Oh my God. All taxes. Have fun. It's right. it's right it' against the It's against the constitution. That one, that one gets me time. You don't actually have to pay that. Yeah. Right. You can take that to the Supreme court.
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah. George. Many have one of, uh, one of the like lamest things that I've ever done was at one point when I still lived in Michigan, my buddy and I went to like a local libertarian chapter meeting.
00:44:05
Speaker
And you could have stopped it there and that would have been the dumbest thing. sorry It was that was it. Yeah, it was like we we sat through one meeting and it is like it's it's bio central, like everybody who showed up to this thing. And I got cornered by like.
00:44:24
Speaker
du Just ah this guy who was a nut and like he would not leave me alone. He wanted my phone number and stuff. and He was like, we're going to we're going to run for city council and this and that. I mean, it was the weirdest thing. I just met this guy. I've been to one meeting or whatever. And like in it, he explained to me why he refuses to have a driver's license.
00:44:44
Speaker
Oh, no. And I'm just like, did you give up your license? Or... Like, are you riding a scooter by choice? Or... OUIs are unconstitutional. What's your name? Let me go look you up. Was that your own idea or were you maybe under the influence of somebody something?
00:45:07
Speaker
Exactly. please Usually when someone's that diehard about something, it's there's there's a longer story behind it. Yeah, yeah. Your personality has been dictated by an event in your life that rocked your world. Right. Exactly.
00:45:25
Speaker
ah yeah It's my freedom of speech. You can't tell me I can't look at hentai at the on the public library. You can't tell me. Or take up skirt photos.
00:45:36
Speaker
so yeah It's not my fault if I was recording with my phone and I accidentally dropped it and it happened to a land in a particular blaze. That's... how is that against 11 times in 16 minutes sir it was in the women's restroom by the toilet just imagine like him having like not even having the setup for it like he's just got his phone like strapped it's like ah on a he's using a selfie stick like a cane his phone's on the bottom
00:46:12
Speaker
So our boy, uh, Brian Karn Jr. here, uh, he's the pastor of kingdom city church whose website lists locations in Jacksonville, Houston, and Charlotte. Oh, the real hotbeds for grifting and fleecing conservative evangelicals. That's perfect.
00:46:30
Speaker
Um, Jacksonville where? ah Houston and Charlotte. Houston is an interesting one. Houston. I mean, yeah, Texas, whatever. Oh yeah.
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah. You can get away with whatever. Charlotte, North Carolina, but says that services are not being held at Jacksonville because of upcoming construction. ah The church has operated in Jacksonville since 2016. So 2016, and they're already like mega church status. That's pretty wild. Yeah.
00:46:58
Speaker
Karn, who's only 37 years old, our age, fellas, has already come up with the the best grift of all time. um He also operates Brian Karn Ministries, whose website reports he has an internal following of well over 300,000 people.
00:47:16
Speaker
An online biography page links to sites, ah but blah, blah, blah, blah. He's got an Amazon storefront for whatever dumb shit he's hawking. A release from the U.S. Attorney's Office said Karn filed tax returns in 2016 that reported more than $1.4 million in income and taxes due to more than $600,000. The release said that Karn didn't pay the money and filed an amended return that reduced his reported income $1.3 million. Only difference. Very interesting.
00:47:46
Speaker
The release said that Karn hired a new accountant for the reduced return and gave the accountant a false backdate employment agreement that showed him earning $120,000 yearly with a housing allowance of another $24,000. In the following years, Karn filed other tax returns that also unreported his income, then stopped filing tax returns at all in 2020.
00:48:12
Speaker
So that'll make it better. Mega pastor, not a mega genius. Pastors are not like the most savvy people that, that, that like, I, you know, which ones are right. Like no one's touching Joel Osteen.
00:48:29
Speaker
No one's coming for Steven Furtick. Steven Furtick had a little hiccup, but he, he, he weasels his way through that one pretty well. Like there's a handful that just know how to play this game.
00:48:41
Speaker
ah But a lot of them are like, I don't know. I don't, I don't know if they think God's on their side. I don't know what kind of horseshit they convince themselves live, but to just, to just pretend like, you know, you made 120,000 when,
00:48:56
Speaker
when you owe $1.5 million dollars in back taxes, you're making shit up and you're fleecing your congregation like a motherfucker. And does he not know about a W-2? Like, that's what I don't understand. Like, that's reported to the IRS. Like...
00:49:12
Speaker
he He considers his salary because it's um because the salary is paid for by offering. He thought that was all tips. And under the new Trump ad, it's like, oh, oh you don't have to tips or you don't have to report tips.
00:49:27
Speaker
Oh, my God. That know we started on that policy, by the way. good ah Yeah, I do wonder where he I'm sorry. Go ahead.
00:49:39
Speaker
Oh, no, these people are just soft heads. Like I just dont anyway, that's all I was going to say. What were you going to Old smooth brains. Yeah, they it does make you wonder like who that accountant is that he hired.
00:49:52
Speaker
Like, is that a is that a Trump accountant where you select them off of like model mayhem or something? ah right It's funny because I blew up the DOJ's ah report on this and you're like, right. Cause like the accountant to like the, you are responsible for that return and the the authenticity of it. And, and so wait, did he, did he, the accountant filed the amendment with a hundred thousand dollars less? Is that right?
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah. So he didn't like the way his accountant was telling him the numbers are going to play out. So he fired that guy and hired a new dude who just, rolled with it and maybe maybe like we'll give the new dude the benefit of the doubt based on what you told me um that he just under reported and there wasn't really a great way to know but it's hard because w-2s are a thing so you're just you're just blindly accepting this guy's statement of what his income is that's pretty wild right well because that's the thing you have to report i mean everyone knows this you have to report the w-2 on your tax return like yeah like it's like a you know upload i'm gonna look i want to look at this one a little deeper because this is interesting because it says three years in prison like i i do love stuff like this because it's just like it just highlights how stupid but you're right a pastor specifically like it's like have you not heard the verse where it says render to caesar what is his and like
00:51:18
Speaker
They really put the thesis in malfeasance, don't they? I think what's really cool about pastors doing it is they're already making free money because they have a pretend job where they just tell you things you want to hear and don't and use AI chatbots to write their sermons. like Every megachurch pastor has recycled the same sermons over and over again. They're just enthusiastic, energetic people who can spend 45 minutes a week on like a four minute topic with really cool props and like connecting it to stupid stories about how they watched football with their friends and, you know,
00:51:59
Speaker
manage to not all jerk each other off at the same time so it's a testament to their strength and their will and it's just like coach oh my god these people it's like you you have to get between before a congregation once a week and so just spout 45 minutes of the same old shit that everyone's been saying for the past 150 years and then you're like Act like you worked really hard for your income and they need to lie on your tax. Like your bitch, you're getting a million dollars a year for free for just showing up and being yourself, which is a terrible person.
00:52:33
Speaker
Which was great to start with. It's crazy. Yeah. I do have one more. We'll be quick with it because I know you got something, Casey. But this is I thought it was funny because after talking about our boy Oakley, who got arrested for all these upskirt videos, we have Pastor Rick Olmstead, who resigns after ah past incidents of taking unsolicited photos of a young woman at a Trader Joe's resurfaces.
00:53:02
Speaker
Oh, this one's even weirder. This one is like what he got caught for. Just lock him up for life because there's there's a level of peculiarity to somebody who does something somewhat benign and gets that hard on it you know yeah where you go you're not safe at all you should not be in the general public so this guy's story uh rick olmstead senior pastor of arise vineyard church in san luis obispo california oh wait that's where i used to live wait what church does it say what church uh yeah arise vineyard church
00:53:42
Speaker
Okay, never mind. I don't know that one. So he resigned following the resurfacing of allegations that he inappropriately photographed a young woman outside of a local Trader Joe's back in 2020. COVID was rough on us all, but come on, man. find Start playing video games.
00:53:59
Speaker
Find Jesus. So let me scroll down a little bit. Taylor Burns, former Mountain Brook intern, told the publication that she was working at Trader Joe's in San Luis Obispo on October 9th, 2021. Olmstead was caught taking non-consensual pictures of the backsides of college-aged women and following them around.
00:54:25
Speaker
yeah She further noted that because she had experienced what she alleged as inappropriate behavior from the pastor once while she was at the church, she reported what happened at the store to the church board, but did not see a meaningful response.
00:54:41
Speaker
Information. don't say, yeah, I know that seemed that's a reoccurring pattern that we see here. Uh, information cited by the Tribune included a stern warning from the church board in 2020 confirmed that the Trader Joe's incident was dealt with internally.
00:54:56
Speaker
Olmstead was placed in a counseling plan, had to apologize to the store, the store, the store, just in general to Trader Joe, uh,
00:55:07
Speaker
I had to a apologize to store and was barred from being alone with teens or young women associated with the church. That's the plan. Like that's called, if you can't be alone with young, with teens and women, like you just need to be fucking fired. Right. Can't be in charge anymore.
00:55:24
Speaker
Like you're done, dude. You should, you're cooked. It looks like an old Pee Wee Herman. like beady-eyed and like he just sorry it was it was further noted that the incident occurred while he also led two religious non-profits focused on children and teens oh god of course this has some real uh trust modeling agency vibes yeah a big throbbing heart kind of hard on for kids He gets up to that like 120 RPM, dabbing his face with like some 1940s old timey pocket handkerchief. He's got like field mouse BPM going on
00:56:09
Speaker
on. Oh my God. It is wild how like these dudes. He's 74. He's years old. You just hope it dies at some point, you know?
00:56:22
Speaker
like there There comes an age where you just... like Your penis should just be dead. And you should be done with like sexual thoughts. I'm looking into like chemical castration at four.
00:56:33
Speaker
My life would be so much better if I couldn't get horny anymore. I would probably be like... happier you know it's just a financial decision for you yeah i don't even to never to go through the at 40 to go through the rest of your life never really considering or thinking about wanting to have sex like that would be so that would be so much easier for a man to get through this world Have you seen the family, the family guy episode on that? When Chris gets chemically castrated?
00:57:03
Speaker
He becomes this like smart guy. yeah Anyway, you because you stop thinking about it. Actually, he has the curly hair and he talks like this.
00:57:16
Speaker
Oh, man. So our boy here was, at so he's 74. The church said he had exercised poor judgment at Trader Joe's, but believed he had taken responsibility for his actions.
00:57:29
Speaker
Five years ago, Rick exercised poor judgment when he took unsolicited photographs of young women while waiting in line outside of... a local outside a local store. This was addressed at the time through confession, counseling, and accountability and restoration process for the board.
00:57:44
Speaker
That was completed by Rick. He was reinstated? Yeah, yeah, you know, he's yeah he's back on top. He's doing his thing. um But the only, they they they did make this weird new rule where like all women had to wear like just tie an elastic band around like ah a flat piece of cardboard and just put that around their waist so he couldn't look at butts in jeans anymore. Of course, because it's always the women's fault.
00:58:12
Speaker
It is. It's their fault. It's the seam that gets him. Let's remove that beam from our brother's eye here. ah i do It is like troubling how you have these dudes that, especially if they've been pastors forever, and and that you...
00:58:30
Speaker
it's kind of like, it's, it's kind of like catching some, like if you, if you were with a friend and you went to the store and when you walked out into the parking lot, like they tripped and like $400 worth of stuff fell out of their coat.
00:58:47
Speaker
It's like, you have to look at that and go, okay so you shoplift, but clearly this isn't the first time. This is a, this is a practice. Like you figured you've got a, you've got a system going now. It's kind of like that with these guys where it's like they're supposed to be like these pure dudes that really just like color within the lines only like, you know, normal vanilla type things.
00:59:08
Speaker
And then you see like what the weird thing is that they're into and you're like, oh, this is rot that's been happening for quite a while. And it's always like whitewashed over to where it's like, you know, Pastor, a Pastor Terry, you know, he had a little bit of a spiritual struggle. He was dealing with some things, but we went through some counseling with him and deacons met with him like weekly as accountability. And now he's back on the straight and narrow and you're like, okay, did he just like, did he,
00:59:37
Speaker
like put his hand on someone too low or whatever. then you find out it's like, no, no, Pastor Terry fish hooked me into the janitor's closet and said, just hold still while I smell it. What?
00:59:52
Speaker
yeah what At least it was a straight person. yeah it's it's not saying if it's straight. yeah vir Just a little bit of real quick to close this one out. It's it's important to mention that both the Vineyard Church in Duluth, Minnesota and Vineyard USA have been named in nine civil lawsuits alongside Jackson Gateland, a former young adult and online community pastor at the Vineyard Church who accepted a plea deal in November.
01:00:22
Speaker
2024 for criminal sexual conduct with a child. They go on to say, like, oh, you know, in hindsight, we might have been to handle this a little bit better or differently. We've since updated our policies and procedures, blah, blah, blah, all the same kind of horseshit. I don't really know what's happening with this guy. i don't know how you like, you know, if you're just like,
01:00:41
Speaker
outside of a Trader Joe's in your car taking pictures of women's backsides where they pull carts out from the little that little cart rack. I don't know. what are you gonna do like what It's weird. It's creepy. You've probably done something worse. You should probably be removed from ministry. Not probably. You should be removed from ministry. But I don't know. I don't know what they're doing with this guy other than just you know profusely apologizing again.
01:01:05
Speaker
Well, you just pull the Megyn Kelly and just debate the age of a minor. like Yeah. You rewrite the policy? What's the word they keep throwing around now? It's ah it's not pedophilia. It's EBophile. EBophile, yeah. like that's It's the barely legal type, like, you know, 13. Yeah, dude, and they keep saying that shit. It's nuts.
01:01:30
Speaker
It's gross. She is real monster. she is a real monster Oh, yeah. And she like reveals it here and there. She'll say something. You're like, oh, that's insane. What are you, a vampire? Like, that's insane. Right.
01:01:43
Speaker
Right. I'm convinced she's transgender, to be honest. The way she rails against transgender community. I'm like, I actually did a video on this where I like started critiquing her face, her like facial structure and all that.
01:01:55
Speaker
And then at the end of it, I'm like, obviously, I don't think she's transgender. It's just like this is what happens when you put the power in the people to decide who's cis and who's not, you know, like.
01:02:06
Speaker
i'm convinced i think we should just accuse every like far right leaning politician of being transgender what uh like they did that with macron right like it's just look you could just say that now and i i know that that i know that that stokes the flames of some anti-lgbtq stuff right like uh but I don't think that, though. the The more they... Okay, please tell me, because because i I feel like I'm trying to be like defensive about it. no like I don't want to get yelled at. Because the thing is, you're not you're not seeing it as a negative thing. like the It's negative that they're transgender. you're you're You're pulling up a mirror to them and saying, look, this is what happens when you... you know it's It's like...
01:02:50
Speaker
Because you're not, again, you're not making fun of transgender people. You're not making fun of gay people. You're basically saying, oh, I'm going to use your playbook against you and show you what, you know, like because that's their biggest insecurity. I mean, you, you, you write you know, all a pastor, he's gay. Like, it's, it's as if you like slept with his wife. Well, maybe maybe that's not as bad of but an act but these days. but um Okay. yeah that i I feel that. I just try to be careful as ah you know Casey and I are two straight white men hosting a podcast here. So you don't want to step on toes, but it is fun to call –
01:03:28
Speaker
in It's fun to call certain things gay um yeah when you know it's it's directed at making – like when you see like a super lifted truck with some like a bunch of two-way bumper stickers and you're like, oh my god, that guy is so gay.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it just feels like i never you never think of just calling things gay until you see something that overcompensatingly masculine where you're like, just admit it, dude. Yeah.
01:04:00
Speaker
No, exactly. And that's the thing, because you're not making you're not making fun of the gay people. You're making fun of the stereotype that they tend to because like I think if, you know, pull politics aside, I think Newsome has showed us the playbook, you know, where it's like, hold the mirror up to them, like refute back to them what they are doing and show them how ridiculous they are, you know?
01:04:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And that's worked out really well. And it's so funny to see. um God, was it Andrew Schultz who went on this like cringe tirade about how ah that Trump's funny, but Newsom's cringe because he's just trying to be like Trump and you're like,
01:04:41
Speaker
how As a comic, how do you not get what he's doing? Right, right. Like you're you just sound like a pathetic little bitch now, dude. Like you sound like you can't get Trump's nuts out of your mouth after you interviewed him and helped elect him as president. Right.
01:04:54
Speaker
Like nobody wants on our side wants to be like Trump. Like that's how ridiculous. And if anything, that highlights how ridiculous they are. You know, it's like, oh, that's your interpretation. Like, right. Because if you have a good idea and you say it like Trump, it immediately sounds like the dumbest idea you've ever had.
01:05:11
Speaker
Well, do you guys want, okay, so we got two options here. Oh, I like options. Do want some, a dating, Christian dating inquiry, or do you want a reflection on Christian persecution?
01:05:26
Speaker
Oh, you hit us with some doozies. George, I'm going to default to you, man. You're the man of the hour. i know, both of them sound great. I kind of like the Christian dating one.
01:05:38
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. So returning to our favorite subreddit, r slash Christian dating advice. This post is from flying birdie.
01:05:49
Speaker
She says, would you date someone who listens very ungodly music? Yeah. I actually saw this one
01:06:02
Speaker
this week. I'm going to try my best to to read this exactly like it's written. so So, I met a nice guy, 32, last week, and we had an overall pleasant date.
01:06:15
Speaker
At the beginning, he was very quiet, though, but kind and respectful. But we have been chatting trough WhatsApp daily, and I was curious if he likes music, which he said yes. I love that. does he I'm curious if you like music. If you don't like music, you absolutely murder people in your spare time.
01:06:38
Speaker
heres he I shared a few songs I like with Spotify. He then shared a few he likes, but then I saw his other playlists.
01:06:49
Speaker
One of them is very ungodly. And in parentheses, it says adult stuff and hard style slash rave, which hard style is apparently a genre of electronic music.
01:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You know that. which kindness which made kind of sad and anxious. Did not really expect that from him. How would you address this to that person?
01:07:12
Speaker
So just to clarify here, this person's 32 and they've been on one date. Yeah. He has a playlist. It's just the song, my neck, my back, my pussy, my crack 100 times.
01:07:28
Speaker
Maybe so. what So I used to work as a fulfillment manager for a small retail company in Boston. um And my one of my best friends of all time, ah he's been a close friend of mine since I was 17. He and I worked together there.
01:07:47
Speaker
And we would just play... like People in the office, like, so you would walk out. it was like a office built in a warehouse. So you would walk out the office and it was just where we would pack orders and people hated us. They loved us like as people, but like they definitely got tired of our music because we have an eclectic interest. So sometimes we'd be like, we play a butt rock playlist and it'd be like Creed puddle of mud, shit like that. Other times it'd be like a hardcore, like it'd be like bunch of hardcore music, like knocked loose, whatever.
01:08:19
Speaker
Um, and then sometimes it like, it'd be, it could go to queen. It could go to rap. Like it was all over the place. Um, and one of the times we had, I have an all the hits playlist, which is just like any hit I could think of from my entire life pre like, uh, 2012 probably. Um,
01:08:39
Speaker
two thousand twelve probably um So like, I'm like a bird, I want to fly away or like ah feel the rain on your skin, things like that. Like, but one of the songs on it is that my my neck, my back, my pussy and my crack. And that song was just blasting. And I don't know why we didn't feel shame ah playing that, knowing that everyone in the office was listening to us listen to music. But our UPS rep walked in to talk to us and she just kind of like walks through the door and me and my friend are like, my neck, my back, my pussy and my crack. And she's just standing in the corner. And it was the most embarrassing moment.
01:09:22
Speaker
Did say anything? were like, I ran over and hit pause on my phone. I'm like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. She's like, ha ha ha. No, it's fine. You would not have gotten a second date.
01:09:36
Speaker
Right. Wait, when you said was her first date, was the first date ever like in life? Or like... So I think at some point here, if I remember correctly, she establishes that this person, this guy that she went on a date with had never had a girlfriend before.
01:09:52
Speaker
Got it. She doesn't specify whether she has or not. But but yeah, at this point, they've been on one date and they've chatted a little bit. So we're we're in ah like oh what's your name again territory.
01:10:06
Speaker
They're they're they're almost ready for marriage. Right. Exactly. Especially at that age. The debate that follows is so stupid. And it's it's exactly like you can just picture a couple of the people that are constantly commenting on every post, you know, and you're just like, oh, man, I remember you from youth group. You are so annoying. So somebody says, what about the songs do you perceive are ungodly? Is he a saved Christian that has a daily active Christian life?
01:10:37
Speaker
I don't know. I've met him once. There's nothing worse than the unsaved Christians. I hate those.
01:10:45
Speaker
Fly and Birdie responds, it's all about lust and perversion, the acts of it, and kind of women woman derogatory. It's a party playlist, but you have a type of Dutch party music genre that's just so perverse and wrong.
01:11:00
Speaker
She's but really familiar with these genres to be critical of their content. Right. And also woman derogatory. Does she not know the basics of Christianity? yeah like You're in for a treat.
01:11:15
Speaker
yeah You're here for my sexual wellness and being. Wow. That's that's actually incredibly Christian. Do you turn on this like woman derogatory playlist and it's just like that song where they're like, you gotta work.
01:11:33
Speaker
It's very derogatory to say that women could have jobs, you know. ah but
01:11:44
Speaker
I heard April moan in the background over that one. Yeah, she's over there whining. yeah She's like, it's crazy how not funny you are.
01:11:55
Speaker
But he has other okayish playlists and a beautiful Christian worship playlist. The contrast is so extreme, but this is something that does really not feel good. He says he was raised in a Christian home, went to church with his parents, then a few years not.
01:12:11
Speaker
And now since two years, he is coming back at church. I think he is saved, but I should ask to make sure slash ask some specific questions about things.
01:12:23
Speaker
George, did you ever have ah like a dichotomous playlist? Did I use that word correctly? um i feel like I did. Where you would have like your Christian playlist and then your like secular playlist? 100%. And I even had a separate iPod for my secular music. Because because we were told... i was told not to listen to Taylor Swift. i I accidentally played... So we were driving back from a youth event. And I played... um I forgot what it was, but it got around to the church and the senior pastor had a talk with me and told me that I can't be playing secular music for the youth group kids. And so after that, I ended up like creating, like I bought an iPad or I pod and like, ah with he dead a Taylor Swift song.
01:13:11
Speaker
Oh, any Taylor Swift, because i remember my my the girl that they fixed me up with. She was really insecure about Taylor Swift because she would always talk about, you know, boys and like how, you know, she always had boy problems and all of that. So she felt insecure. So she so she asked me not to listen to Taylor Swift specifically because of that.
01:13:36
Speaker
It's funny, but then when you think more deeply about it, you feel so sad for her. Right. You're like, oh, wow, yeah that you got that ruined by that industry. That's too bad. This isn't a good way to deal with those feelings.
01:13:49
Speaker
I was thinking maybe you had the separate iPods so that way the like you could trap all the demons in one and you wouldn't have to worry about the demons impacting the other iPod.
01:13:59
Speaker
Well, kind of because I didn't use to watch gay porn, too. Exactly.
01:14:07
Speaker
So there's one guy in here that pops up a lot that I, I really don't like him. I feel he's very annoying. I feel like that's the case for any male Redditor that pops up in any Christian subreddit frequently. You are just going to hate him.
01:14:24
Speaker
Yeah. This guy is called Conversation Fit, 3934. This guy's mad that he hasn't been asked on the board yet at his church. Oh, i I would not doubt it. But, you know, there's like there's a thing there's a thing in churches in general where like the nuttiest person like sets the pace of play.
01:14:45
Speaker
So, you know, if ah like at one point in my school, we there was a big... blowout over playing cards because some people, there was like one parent that thought it was immoral to use like bicycle playing cards.
01:15:03
Speaker
And so regular cards. Yeah. Yeah. Because something about symbolism and it's used for gambling and stuff. I mean, just the most ridiculous thing. And like, I don't believe anybody else involved at the school thought that was a bad thing or that it needed to be corrected.
01:15:21
Speaker
But, the the biggest moron sets the pace for everybody else. So all the cards were confiscated and we were totally, we were not allowed to play with them. That's how we go fish.
01:15:32
Speaker
No more old maid. It's so true though. It is true. Has a conviction and it's like everyone else's problem. ah Yeah. it But it is true that the bicycle, like the playing cards that have the hole punched out, right?
01:15:47
Speaker
ah The hole punch is like they were like previously used for gambling, right? It is true that that hole creates a cavity that is perfectly fit in uniform to contain a ah gambling spirit or demon.
01:16:05
Speaker
He can just kind of wedge himself in there. like you you Yeah, you've got to be careful with the ones that have the hole punch through them. Like a beetle larvae on a tree. Yeah, just like that worm hat. It's a little in the wood.
01:16:17
Speaker
It's like a little bit of dog shit in the brownie. Did you guys get that youth group message? No. Yeah, it was just like, oh, it's only a little bit. Yeah, it's only a little bit. It's like that sin. You would compare it to sin. You'd be like, if someone put a little bit of dog shit in like a batch of brownies and then gave it to everybody and you told them, oh, there's only a little bit of dog shit in here, they wouldn't eat it. But they don't feel that same conviction around sin.
01:16:43
Speaker
it's a and That's why i sin is such a dangerous game. So stupid. I would those brownies. Every one of these play are like threads, ah ah the vast majority of them turn into this, where one person, usually a man, comes in and says like the most extreme...
01:17:04
Speaker
moral ethic right because he watches porn every night and he's just needs this outlet to feel like he's a better person than he is it's like a dominance thing it's like i control where the line is in here you know and there's no incentive for anybody to like moderate the discussion yeah say like hey well you know um You've only been on one date.
01:17:30
Speaker
i don't think you can really draw a lot of conclusions about this person's character from just like a playlist that you saw. You don't even know if he listens to it anymore. You know, like, I would say, let's just wait and get to know him. Let's focus on getting to know him. And then you can start laying out rules for each other. You know, like that's, this is so premature, but like every, every thread is a race to the bottom. So conversion fit says don't let the popular, but spiritually immature posts of this sub can convince you what, you know, in spirit is not true. Believers are at different points of their walk with God.
01:18:06
Speaker
Take this as an opportunity to evangelize to him. If he's serious about committing his life to Christ, he'll get there. But I wouldn't enter into a serious relationship until you're both on the same page.
01:18:17
Speaker
All of this because of a fucking playlist. yeah Yeah. You don't get
Music Morality: Christian vs. Secular Debate
01:18:23
Speaker
it. This playlist says things that derogatory towards women. It treats them like sexual objects, unlike the Bible. Right, exactly. Exactly.
01:18:35
Speaker
with David's 1,000 concubines. the the like The moral certainty with which these people make statements to about something benign, like something about music. like you can It's perfectly reasonable to say that kind of music is not for me. I kind of find it offensive. I don't like it or whatever. you know But like the that the idea that like it's it's immoral for anyone to listen to anything that's not like praise and worship music Oh, yeah. It's just so ridiculous.
01:19:07
Speaker
I remember trying to toe that line a little bit. I remember the conversations. I had i was never like a very guilty person about just being a person. um But I do remember like those conversations about like should Christians only listen to Christian music?
01:19:23
Speaker
And being on like you know your college dorm, having this conversation, and you're like, what what is what are we doing here? like This is... At that point, at my most Christian, like it's funny because I, a good friend of mine was a good friend of my old youth pastors. He's a little older than I am.
01:19:41
Speaker
um And he, he loves to tell the story about how my old youth pastor was like, like told him that he's like, Sam is not, Sam's not convicted about what he watches.
01:19:53
Speaker
He's not convicted about like the movies he watches. Yeah. And I remember finding that like really ironic because I, but something that I figured out later in life is how, how much of my life I based on how I wanted authority figures to perceive me. Uh, that was, that was a huge part of why I went to Liberty and got a Bible degree.
01:20:19
Speaker
Like I wanted the world I lived in to look at me and be like, that's, that's the guy we need. Um, And it never like it, that, that shit never crossed my mind. Like that, who, who cares? Like this is just, it's a movie. And then what bothered me about that was like that youth pastor spent all of his time with like the kids who were like quote unquote at risk, right? Christian at risk, youth group at risk where it's like, oh, they might, they might leave all of this when it's all said and done. So for like for him to spend all that time with them...
01:20:57
Speaker
ah my assumption is hoping that he would be able to keep them in the fold. Well, like I, I was talked about like that behind my back when I was for the next 15 years, all in, like I was the guy I, I not only like left that youth group, that Pat, that youth pastor went on to start the church in Boston that I ended up attending when I left Virginia because I wanted to move to Boston to be part of that church plan. Like,
01:21:28
Speaker
There was never more an all in kid in youth group than me. And sounds like ah conviction eating at you. Yeah, that's all I can hear right now. And to like, they never all that boiled down to like, he's not convicted that he watched inside man with Denzel Washington.
01:21:44
Speaker
It's like, what are we doing? That was a good movie. I mean, I felt like it was like a lot of like church, you know, especially in leadership. It was, it's kind of like the Trump administration where you eat your own. Like it's like to, in order to get on top, like that was very much. Absolutely.
01:22:01
Speaker
Such good. I remember some of your stories about that too.
Christian Dating Pressures and Relationship Expectations
01:22:04
Speaker
Like some of the, the, the ways in which they were like manipulative in that way and like, you know, trying to push you into a relationship with that girl and stuff like that. Yeah, it really is. it is And that's it's it's such a weird like like so dominance play within these air, these spaces to, to, to be the most moral person and tell everybody else what God convicts them of and stuff. And it's like, when you go through all these dating threads, there's so few people that are like advocating for people to like stick it out and, and try to fix things with their boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever.
01:22:49
Speaker
But then once you're married, it's like, oh, he broke your nose. Well, i just, you know, I'm not a fan of divorce. I'm not a fan of divorce. Yeah, for sure. You know, like it's it's funny how it flips on its head. Now it's the most moral thing to stay by that person no matter what.
01:23:07
Speaker
So, yeah, that is interesting within the Christian dating realm is like, oh, there's there's this one thing that might it Like this guy who commented was like, oh, is he like a... Maybe he's not a real Christian. Maybe he's not a saved Christian. Like all these delineations of like... Because they get so tied up on the concept of equally yoked, right? Where it's like, if you're not entering into a relationship where you are perfectly aligned on everything, then you need to you need to call it quits immediately because now this is dangerous. That's where all this goes, yeah. Like there's any... Like there's any single relationship on earth where two people have entered into it 100% on the same page of as anything.
01:23:51
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So Flying Birdie says, yes, I also thought eventually it's opportunity to evangelize, but it feels quite disappointing. He never had a relationship before, but had a few dates.
01:24:04
Speaker
I don't know if it's true. It's like, well, you don't. You don't know anything about him. You've been on one date. Like now we're like, maybe he's lying about not having a girlfriend before us. Maybe, but I mean, maybe we should go to dinner twice before you decide if he's like, you know, an agent of chaos.
01:24:25
Speaker
Conversion fifth end response. Try not to see the person as a reflection of their sins, but as a reflection of the spiritual battle that occurs in all of us. So now so now he's telling her where, you know, what her perception needs to be. Right. The devil deceives many, even many who consider themselves followers of Christ. Right.
01:24:45
Speaker
What's important is how we respond to Christ when God draws us to him. This is also when our own walk with Christ becomes important. The more submitted you are to Christ and the word, the more you may receive direction from the Holy Spirit. Nothing I could say would properly guide you. Have deep, lengthy prayers to understand God's guidance on this and everything. That'll help.
01:25:06
Speaker
Have deep, lengthy prayers to understand this and, you know, everything. The length is is the important part in every aspect of a relationship, right? So now we get the second nut.
01:25:19
Speaker
Before we get into the second nut, I want to know, George, I want you to tap into your previous pastor days, and I want you to give this woman some advice that will set her up for success. Oh, sorry to put you on the spot.
Vague Christian Advice and Responsibility
01:25:32
Speaker
I know you got it in you still because under pressure, all of us always can still tap in to those Christian roots.
01:25:41
Speaker
Trust the spirit. Yeah. what is you get What is the Lord can placing on your heart? You know what I really appreciate? Even those two quips, I really appreciate the ambiguousness of that.
01:25:55
Speaker
It really really shifts all the responsibility onto the person and makes them feel like they have to decide. like it makes Exactly. It puts so much pressure on them in their relationship with God. And I think that's the way that Christianity thrives. It's like, I'm going to absolve myself from responsibility and I'm going to just put it all back on you, but with the right lingo. So that way, if you fail, it's your fault. And I gave you good advice.
01:26:22
Speaker
Yep. 100%. Almost like helping me people with their taxes, right? What's that? Almost like helping people with their taxes, right? Exactly. but I'm going to tell you to report your actual income.
01:26:36
Speaker
But if you don't, wink, wink, it's not my fault. ah Exactly. And when the IRS comes, just going to blame it on you. And they will come. Just like God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
01:26:52
Speaker
he So second nut jumps in. He says, I disagree. The men should be spiritually leading the women, not the other way around. Flirt to convert and missionary dating doesn't work.
01:27:06
Speaker
So that's that's where we're at now. it's It's flirt to convert a Christian dude that has a playlist that you find a little puzzling. Who may not be a Christian. because um Then he locks horns with conversion fit.
01:27:22
Speaker
this guy's This guy's name Jungkook's Banana Milk. Okay, well, he's pervert. A little strange. ah
01:27:30
Speaker
Conversion Fit jumps back in. He says, I agree that a husband leads a wife, but at this point, they are friends. This woman seems capable of sharing the gospel. Banana Milk says, they went on a date with so which signals romantic interest.
01:27:45
Speaker
Oh, my God. Conversion Fit. Until they marry, they are friends. The Bible doesn't recognize girlfriend and boyfriend. my yeah Banana milk. Scripture also talks about wisdom, fruit, and discernment.
01:27:58
Speaker
Even before marriage, I think it matters whether two people are spiritually aligned and moving in the same direction. Banana milk is a troll. banana but Because that means you're just a coming dick. Right.
01:28:09
Speaker
But I love how they're negotiating this person's like future. Like, ah but you know, this is, this is, I don't know that this is leading towards marriage. It's like, they've been on one date. They've been on one date. Are you insane?
01:28:25
Speaker
yeah I think the most incredible thing about Reddit comments like this is how much individuals believe they have control over other people's lives.
01:28:36
Speaker
that's very truth Like you're, you're actually trying, you're actually trying in 200 words or less to change the course of this woman's life. Right. And she's watching everything like, like on bated breath. Like what are they going to say next?
01:28:51
Speaker
In thinking, like, I wonder what people who post here, think like, you're not posting in this sub unless you've read things in this subreddit, right? Like, she's probably read the comments. I don't, like, who goes here for advice?
01:29:07
Speaker
i Like, I go to Reddit for advice on, like, what the best store-bought salsa is. not...
01:29:15
Speaker
Be careful though. It could be desperately on on how to spend the rest of my life. Yeah. Mine is more like, what is this species of frog?
01:29:28
Speaker
Yeah. That's the kind of advice you can get from Reddit. And most of it is wrong. Yeah. As with Christian dating advice. So then we get a guy by the name of the, the dark night reddits that jumps in. Oh God. Batman references. That's a red flag.
01:29:44
Speaker
He might be a little more normal. He says, it's posts like this that is the reason why people leave the church. Can't even enjoy music in peace. Oh, less of a red flag than I thought. Another chick jumps in. She says, exactly judging people, this, that, the other.
01:30:00
Speaker
He says, objectively, too. Worship music is not that good, LOL. C.S. Lewis once said, we need less good Christians making art and more Christians making good art. And I wholeheartedly agree.
01:30:12
Speaker
Wow. This is where conversion fit gets back into it. That's probably the worst C.S. Lewis quote of all time, too. Like, C.S. Lewis does have some bangers.
01:30:23
Speaker
i'm not i'm not here to I'm not going to dump on C.S. Lewis for a minute. i I genuinely think that he he has some bangers. He was a thoughtful thinker. I agree. I actually really like it. still quote some of his stuff, like, to love is to be vulnerable.
01:30:38
Speaker
Yeah, within the realm of Christianity, like his takes on hell, his takes on like ah so many things like I think are really legit. And this guy comes out with the number one worst quote from C.S. Lewis. I would actually debate whether or not I need to look this up. I bet he just made this up like that's so bad that that doesn't even seem like C.S. Lewis.
01:31:02
Speaker
yeah because I haven't heard that one.
Christian Worship Music Quality Debate
01:31:04
Speaker
Isn't C.S. Lewis, ah he's a why buy the milk when you can get the, or why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?
01:31:13
Speaker
Isn't that C.S. Lewis? I don't know. That sounds like someone from your local town. I don't know. That sounds like your dad gave you that advice, dude. I don't know. I remember my mom saying that really angrily at some point.
01:31:30
Speaker
ah So ah conversion conversation fit jumps back in. He says it's because you don't have a heart for worship at this point of your walk, but the spirit will change that if you commit to God.
01:31:44
Speaker
Oh God. It's just like this guy is the reason this, this guy is the reason we have um like worship metal. you know What's that worship metal band with ah with Head from Korn?
01:31:59
Speaker
Oh, ah and Love and Death? I don't know if that's what it's called. I just know that, like, who's the guy that the Instagram dude, the Evangel Corb motherfucker? Peyton Parrish. Peyton Parrish. It's shit like this guy that we have shit like that guy.
01:32:19
Speaker
Peyton Parish it kind of has this vibe for sure. I, um I, I commented Peyton Parish post recently. ah It was like ah written by AI performed by Peyton Parish was my comment and Peyton Parish liked it. He made he made a video response to one of those pipes of posts. Somebody was like, I refuse to believe this isn't AI. And he's like, hey, thanks a lot, brother. But check this out. He's like, I carry the word of God with me. It's like, he's saying it's AI because it's slop.
01:32:58
Speaker
Like, not because he doesn't believe your voice could be that good. like What's wrong with you? Yeah. um So Dark Knight didn't like that. He says, yeah, no, you don't need spirit to the spirit to tolerate poorly made art.
01:33:15
Speaker
Conversation fit. If you generally find worship music unsatisfactory, but then enjoy Little Wayne, you may be living a lukewarm life, loving things of the world. I didn't like the worship music until the spirit came upon me.
01:33:29
Speaker
Now I enjoy music that glorifies my Lord. Can we eliminate the phrase came upon me? I would. Upon is a weird.
01:33:41
Speaker
Came all over me.
01:33:45
Speaker
I love that, though. It's like the most condescending. Like, yeah, I didn't like worship music either when I was an idiot living like the world. Until I got covered by spirit ectoplasm. Yeah. The warmth of the spirit.
01:34:00
Speaker
The milky white glow. i even Banana milky white glow. Yeah.
01:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, okay, Dark Knight. Yeah, that's my point.
Hypocrisy in Religious Media Consumption
01:34:11
Speaker
The things of the world made by the same people are significantly better than worship music. It's not spirit. You can just recognize when something is objectively made better.
01:34:20
Speaker
Music is multilayered than to be just music is multilayered then to just be lyrics. okay Also, I'd argue you how weak your spirit is that you can't listen slash enjoy media without being influenced by it.
01:34:35
Speaker
Then a conversation fit. ah It's the desire to consume things of God. It's not simply the harmony or beats. The spirit behind the music has a stronger influence. I wonder if you also engage in willful sins like fornication and think they're fine. If you have the spirit, you have conviction about following his commands. Not that the music issue is as clear, but I think symptomatic. My bad. So it's not clear because this guy listens to non-Christian music.
01:35:06
Speaker
He's not putting out what he listens to, but he listens to music that's not Christian. Yeah. So he needs to he needs to create a little bit of gray to indemnify him from any sort of culpability in what he's accusing others of.
01:35:20
Speaker
And how do these people have so much time on their hands? Like, I don't understand that. Like, do they not work? it i ah They're bad employees, for sure. Somebody's terrible employee.
01:35:34
Speaker
To be fair, i have done a lot of these types of... I've been baited into some dumb conversations on Reddit while sitting on my toilet at 1230 a.m. Conversation fit ripped 30 tortillas at Chipotle, like thinking about this the day that he's having this argument. He's just breaking burritos left and right. But also that's a great point ah because people want to get all hot and bothered about what music you listen to, but I doubt he spends this much time thinking about what establishments he shops with.
01:36:07
Speaker
Right. that's True. Well, that's kind of where Dark Knight goes. He says, out of curiosity do you then refuse all media similarly movies video games that glorify sin if it means to be lukewarm then so be it my god cannot be this intolerant or unaware that i will be punished for enjoying themes without and engaging in the same i imagine he knows himself what is objectively well produced that when grammys oscars and not just deemed as sinful.
01:36:37
Speaker
Even Kanye had made, has made better worship music than well-known worship groups slash artists. And you may not even be aware how this style is copied to sound appealing to the masses within churches.
01:36:50
Speaker
as As long as this guy's not talking about Kanye's Heil Hitler song, I think he has a point. Yeah. He loses me there towards the end, but, uh, I do, I, it is funny. Like, uh,
01:37:03
Speaker
I just kept thinking like, well, I was reading this, like, yeah, I really, I wonder if you went through conversation fits life with a fine tooth comb. If we'd find other points of interest where maybe secular influence is tolerated, but you know, not music because they always find the thing that doesn't cost them anything.
01:37:24
Speaker
That's what they plant their flag. You know, the guy who doesn't drink already is like drinking is, is an abomination and, The Bible says that drinking is wrong. All drinking, doesn't matter what kind. And you're like, what about the water and the wine and all that stuff? He's like, that's not what that means. That's not what that means. It was purifying the water. You know, like it doesn't cost him any to give up drinking and to swear it off. So that's the most important thing. yeahp yeah I guarantee you this guy is like that. He plays video games. He does some other thing that like really doesn't align with this like puritanical view of music.
01:37:58
Speaker
Yep. Did you, George, did you have any, any lines in the sand during your evangelical days? Plenty. Like, I mean, you know, the music, it was like, I mean, that's the funny thing. Like there were, there were, ah I remember like,
01:38:16
Speaker
we were hard rock about our rock hard about everything that, uh, like when it came to media, but like, you know, when it came to like fast food or sweets or anything like that, you know, it was like, it was like, Oh, Oh, Oh, it's, you know, a little, it's a little sin or whatever. Right.
01:38:36
Speaker
Right. Like there's no consistency. Yeah. ah but yeah It is funny too. April and were talking about it. It's like, okay, if you can say all of this and be like, I don't listen to music. I don't, I don't watch movies that are sinful. I don't do this. I don't do that.
01:38:53
Speaker
If you then spend 12 hours a week listening listening to Tim
Judgment in Christian Upbringings and Denominational Differences
01:38:57
Speaker
pool, like all that's dull and void. Okay. Cause you want to talk about influence. You let this like poison into your head 24 seven, you know, and like you're this culture warrior maniac or whatever, like,
01:39:11
Speaker
we know umm Hey, great, you didn't play Grand Theft Auto. Good for you. um You suck, though. like yeah yeah You're a miserable person that spreads awful things.
01:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, the world would be better if you just played Grand Theft Auto when you were 13 years old like the rest of us. but So, yeah, there's many, many more ah responses in here.
01:39:36
Speaker
oh dude, there's a lot in here. And it's just... Different versions of the exact same thing. Different. version It's just different versions of people jacking themselves off. Right. Right.
01:39:46
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So this Reddit is the most masturbatory like space on the Internet for people to like gloat about why they're better than other people.
01:39:58
Speaker
They all agree that she should she shouldn't date this guy until she like settles this issue. like They all agree kind of that like oh this relationship is is kind of doomed. you know But then they all still fight over the specifics yeah of why.
01:40:16
Speaker
it's just It's just so petty. But you're right. like It's funny, Sam, when you were asking, like you're right. like when you're When you're in it, it doesn't it seems so ah trivial. But like when you step away from it, you're like, this was that was stupid. like Just to think about like the little hills that we would die on. like It's just so... like ah Yeah, I don't know. it just What was...
01:40:38
Speaker
Let's, let's, uh, unless you get a little bit more Casey, uh, otherwise we can, uh, I want to, let's close that with the Hills that we died on. Think back and I'll give you guys some time to think and I'll, I'll talk about a Hill I died on.
01:40:52
Speaker
Um, Underage drinking. I was and I know that's not abnormal, right? Within the Christian world. But like thinking back on it, it's it's a little bit silly in a specific context. But like, I think there's a good argument to be made that it's not a good idea for people under 21 to drink. Like we know what drinking does. We know the impacts it has on your health. Yeah.
01:41:15
Speaker
your decision-making like drinking excessively is, is damaging and problematic. So that aside, I remember getting in an argument with somebody.
01:41:25
Speaker
i was, uh, 20 years old. i was living in ah house off campus. Um, I moved off campus because yeah, uh,
01:41:38
Speaker
Casey and I originally think about trying to get a place together. didn't work out. Um, but I had to get off campus because I had identical twin roommates. I dressed the same and I wanted to die every day. I went an entire year without them speaking in front of me.
01:41:53
Speaker
Um, they were, it was a bizarre situation. So I was Liberty doesn't like letting people move off campus until they're a junior. um I transferred in as a sophomore and was like, I'm not coming back. Um, I refuse to come back if I have to gamble on roommates again because this year was a nightmare.
01:42:13
Speaker
And so they let me get a house. I got a house with the same friend that I mentioned before who I worked with. um And we ah were in my living room one night having an argument with Well, I was having an argument. My friend probably thought I was an idiot.
01:42:31
Speaker
um But she was like, yeah, sometimes like I'll drink. like like My family will have like open a bottle of wine with dinner. like I'm at home. I'm with my family. I'll have a glass of wine.
01:42:43
Speaker
And I remember being like real hard-headed about being like well the bible says that you need to follow like the laws and blah blah blah like i was just such a dickhead about it and i regret that for the rest of my life because of how stupid i was um and i just like i couldn't let it go and i just kept quoting bible verses and trying to be like this fucking superior white male evangelical idiot about it like i that clearly played a part in like i know what's right because i'm getting a bible degree at liberty blah blah uh and that if i whenever i have to think back about a dumb ass hill that i died on it was like arguing with this girl about that it's just wrong to drink like because we have this societal law that says you can't until you're 21 like it matters if you have a glass of wine with your family on pasta night yeah
01:43:39
Speaker
So embarrassing. I mean, i got I get that. Like they, yeah, it was, it was very much um like just drinking in general at my church was like shunned upon. Like you, like if you were in leadership, you could not drink at all. Like even in your own home, like you you have to, you have to abstain from the appearance of evil.
01:44:00
Speaker
Yeah. Do you have do have one George that you remember being a prick about? I remember like, and Well, like unequally yoked. I mean, kind of similar to this conversation with like the, and like it wasn't like the nitpicky, but we were very particular about the the um the doctrines of people. So like like if you were hanging out with someone from another church, it still could be perceived that they weren't you know, you're equal because they didn't believe the same, you know, doctrines that you did or read from the same Bible that you did. Actually, yeah, that was a big one. Like you had to read from the New King James version. If you read from the NIV or any other version that was like, you possibly are not saved.
01:44:47
Speaker
Dude, that that was a big one. it was It was before i i I... I wasn't even a girlfriend. It was someone... I could marginally say I dated for three weeks.
01:45:01
Speaker
maybe a little longer. She was part of a church. I think she was a Lutheran. I don't exactly remember, but I'm, I think it was Lutheran. And I remember going to an event at her church with her once. And it was like, that was a big pro like it, it wasn't a, it wasn't a problem in that I was really torn up about it, but I remember doing all the gymnastics in my head about how I was going to justify this to my church.
01:45:27
Speaker
Like, Just cross denomination. It is, it was a problem. ah And it's, it's so, it's so funny to think about because we probably fairly aligned on most things, but then it's like, I actually remember looking at a Reddit thread where it was like something to do with like, I, I, I'm interested in this guy who's or girl who's a Catholic, And people are like, well, there's a actually lot of differences in the what Catholics think. And then other people are like, well, yeah, but there's also a lot of nominal Catholics that don't buy into that. You're like, yeah, but you have to look into what the church itself is teaching.
01:46:03
Speaker
And it's like that that that brought back those memories of me dating a girl for less than a month of like, well, what does the Lutheran church believe? Like, does it align? Like you don't even really think too much about whether or not the individual believes it because in evangelicalism, you only go to church based on what they believe.
01:46:27
Speaker
you you You leave churches when they say something you don't like and you find a new church that tells you everything you want to hear. That's evangelicalism at its core. So like you actually can't fathom the idea that people attend a religious community without buying into every aspect of what that hierarchical church thinks. Yeah. It's symptomatic.
01:46:49
Speaker
What's that? It's symptomatic. Right. i mean I remember like we used to think people that were Methodists were they might as well have gone to like the the Church of Satan. you yeah like were better off it is funny how like and if you would just when you ran into a problem with something you just didn't spend time thinking about it basically like you just kind of tried to not think about it but like i remember in my like school books learning about martin luther and everything had ah had to have like this caveat that like Okay, yes, it was, you know, I guess you could say that this was important to, you know, to Protestantism and whatnot. But like, here's all the things that he was wrong about in his book, he still believes that you can baptize babies and this and that and the other and
01:47:40
Speaker
you know and actually uh you know we as evangelicals we're not protestant because we didn't split from the catholic church we followed christ teachings we're not an offshoot we are the church you know oh my god that's actually a new one for me i haven't heard people be that that serious in that done in that in that takedown of like the catholic church like the diminishing of them like that we used to have maybe like I don't know, maybe a like a four or five week sermon series, like once a year on like everything wrong with like all the other denominations.
01:48:18
Speaker
Hell yeah. And it's funny thinking back on it now, because like my pastor was such a, just a, he's just like, he's just a ah genuinely great dude. And I wonder if like,
01:48:30
Speaker
he thinks back on some of that stuff and is embarrassed by it or is like, I wouldn't do that again. Cause I, I had this feeling that he has perspective now on some of it. And even if he does thinks the same things probably wouldn't do those things the same way.
01:48:44
Speaker
i don't know, maybe not, but like, yeah, that was a, that was a big deal. And that was a, like one of my best friends in high school, his church was like the extreme version of that where like they,
01:48:58
Speaker
openly called like, you know, my pastor and other other ones. And, you know, that we went to school with and stuff like wolves and sheep's clothing and stuff. Oh, wow. So he he was there was a turf war his aspect of evangelicalism. It is a turf war. Yeah, it's so true. My buddy eventually got excommunicated.
01:49:21
Speaker
Good for him. For listening to secular music. It was eventually good for him. He was
Reconnecting with the Ex-Christian Community
01:49:29
Speaker
very tough for him. My neck, my back, my pussy, and my crack. And they were like, no, man, that's a bridge too far.
01:49:35
Speaker
That might have been it. Oh, man. Well. and well Dude, George, thank you so much for for coming on. It's fun to hang out again. Thank you so This was so fun. i had a great time. miss this so much. Thank you. Dude, we got to do it more often. We always, like, I say this when we have reoccurring guests on, but i'm like, we...
01:49:59
Speaker
it's so like Casey and I are like haphazard about our schedule here, but like there we have a good handful of people that we've really connected with over the years of doing this. um Obviously, you being one of them. and it's like it It shouldn't be this much of an effort to get people back on. like We just...
01:50:18
Speaker
going through this stuff, talking about like the funny shit we find, like it just bringing someone else along for the ride that we love to hang out with. We got to do this more often, man. No, I love it. Cause like I've been so out of like, you know, the ex Christian community for so long. Like it it, it felt so good to get back into it. Like in this way, dude it is it really like, that's what's so funny is like, you'll have people who say things like,
01:50:43
Speaker
oh you say you're over it but you still talk about it every week and you're like yeah because it literally was my life for 28 years what do you want me to do like 30 years of my life like this this is such a deep part of who we are and to just have conversations with friends about like what it is how we look back on it it's it's really it actually has like a deep meaning to be able like jump on and like joke about it and have fun with it it's therapeutic like it' yeah because like it like as you were asking questions i was like oh my god i forgot about that i forgot about this and like it's it's true though like it it is like it there's there's a community you know because like we understand what it was like to be in that high pressure low energy environment yeah like
01:51:33
Speaker
Yeah. Every, like I, one of the things that like comes across my mind a good bit is like, if I like went into a bar, sat next to a rando, grabbed a drink and I found out that they grew up evangelical, I would be like, we're closing this shit down together. Like you would have so much talk about. It doesn't get old. it And it, it's just like, it is so cathartic. Yeah.
01:51:55
Speaker
ah to just shoot the shit with people who who have that mutual understanding of your background. Because it really does, like, like in the in the real world when you're out, like, you you really get used to, like, not talking about it and just kind of being your regular self. But, like, there's – I feel like I don't go a single day where I have a conversation with somebody that triggers a thought or an idea – about the world I grew up in. yeah And you don't always just throw it out there because it's not going to make sense to them. But like this, you, you don't just like, you don't just like walk away from him be like, okay, I'm done. Like, and I never think about it again. When people do that, you go, I don't know if they even trust you. Right. Like you don't want to talk about this. You don't want to have fun with it. You don't want to like, like if you're so like, if you have that much shame about it where you can't even
01:52:48
Speaker
acknowledge that that's who you were or what you thought, like then then you just still have some work to do. And the people who can talk about it and have fun with it are like, oh, it is. It's always cathartic, man. So thanks so much, dude. It's so good to have you on again.
01:53:04
Speaker
love it. I can't wait for the next talk. Is there a place where people can follow you to get like advice on how to cheat on their taxes? yeah It's funny. I just started a new, so I i was on Tik TOK. I actually got like 10,000 followers. i was like, Oh my gosh, this is awesome. And then it became magnified.
01:53:22
Speaker
so I just created, what'd you say about Israel? Let's get it destroyed. Exactly. Or Epstein. yeah You said Zionist in a derogatory way. Right. Right.
01:53:37
Speaker
I love it. I started a new Instagram. So it's George, the dot CPA. um But i I need to get back into my gay church days. Like, especially after this conversation, this was, yeah, you came back into it. I remember thinking like, that's what like got me going. I'm like, Oh my God, fuck. Yeah. We got to get this guy back on. You jumped back into it for a minute. Yeah, after the protest, after the No Kings 2.0, like I was like, okay, I'm ready to do this.
01:54:07
Speaker
And then i was like, wait, where do i begin? And then I didn't know where to begin. and sorry I never did. ah Yeah, I get it. I mean, our Instagram sucks at this point. Like, I don't know how to say shit anymore. I'm like. At all. Yeah. yeah What are we doing? Everything sucks, dude. Everything. well Well, thank you for having Good deal.
01:54:29
Speaker
Well, I'll link to your ah to George's new account on Instagram in the show notes so you can find that there. Thanks, everybody, for listening.
01:54:41
Speaker
We will see next time.