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The Pros & Cons of Cohabitation with Men
47 Plays3 years ago
Is saving on rent worth the potential drawbacks? Should we all be doing it Oprah Style? The Queens discuss the pros and cons of co-habitation with a man.
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Introduction to the Female Political Strategy Podcast
00:00:00
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Speaker
Elle, a conservative.
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00:01:22
Speaker
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00:01:36
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:01:36
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
Debating Cohabitation: Savannah's Perspective
00:01:41
Speaker
I'm Roque.
00:01:42
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:01:43
Speaker
And I'm Lilla.
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, so today is going to be our great cohabitation showdown.
00:01:48
Speaker
So it sounds like me and Savannah, we've been on Twitter the past few weeks talking about cohabitation.
00:01:55
Speaker
And this is one area, I guess, where me and Savannah disagree in a very stark way.
00:02:02
Speaker
I'd like to get Savannah to say her opinion first, because I think hers is more controversial, which I think is based, by the way.
00:02:08
Speaker
But Savannah, what's your stance on living with a man?
00:02:11
Speaker
In an ideal world, I mean, this is like, if I was in a utopian world, I would never live with a man ever, even if we were married.
00:02:20
Speaker
We would have either... Like completely separate houses?
00:02:24
Speaker
So in an ideal world, yes.
00:02:26
Speaker
I mean, in the UK, it's hard to get one house, talk less of two.
00:02:30
Speaker
But at the barest minimum, we would have separate bedrooms and separate bathrooms.
00:02:35
Speaker
I personally think it's really important for, you know, even if you're in a married couple, to have your own space.
00:02:42
Speaker
Like my parents, they're both at home and they don't spend all day together in the same room.
00:02:47
Speaker
They actually have their own little space.
00:02:50
Speaker
like, how do you call it?
00:02:51
Speaker
Their own little, you know, parts of the house that they go into for the day.
00:02:56
Speaker
And I just, and I very, very much like my own space.
00:03:01
Speaker
Like I look at my bed, like each time I think of living with a man, I just look at my bed, which is king size.
00:03:06
Speaker
And I just think I'll have to give up 50% of this.
00:03:09
Speaker
And I just don't want to.
00:03:10
Speaker
Like,
00:03:11
Speaker
You have the Whoopi Goldberg defense, which is, I don't want no man living in my house.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:15
Speaker
The very famous Whoopi Goldberg quote.
00:03:18
Speaker
I just get really, really, like, tetchy when people are in my space.
00:03:22
Speaker
I'm not saying, like, I wouldn't stay for, like, a weekend or even a week.
00:03:26
Speaker
Like, when my ex would come and visit me, I would, you know, be in, like, his house for, like, a week or he'd come to mine, and that was fine.
00:03:34
Speaker
But I just wouldn't do it permanently.
00:03:36
Speaker
Like, no.
00:03:37
Speaker
So, um,
00:03:39
Speaker
You know, I always say to my friends, like, I want to get, you know, like a house that's big enough.
00:03:43
Speaker
Like one of my friends owns a house and there's like a second property at the back of it.
00:03:50
Speaker
And I was like, that'd be perfect.
00:03:51
Speaker
I can have the main house.
00:03:53
Speaker
He can live in the little... You want to do things Oprah style?
00:03:57
Speaker
Because isn't that, isn't like Oprah and Stedman's arrangement?
00:04:00
Speaker
Like she lives in the main mansion.
00:04:02
Speaker
He has some kind of house out back on her ranch.
00:04:05
Speaker
Queen.
00:04:06
Speaker
If I'm not mistaken.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah, probably.
00:04:13
Speaker
And also, like, and also from a practical standpoint as well, like I've asked my, you know, people who are married or who live together, okay, so if you're in a one bedroom and you both have an argument, where are you sleeping?
00:04:25
Speaker
And they're just like, oh, we share a bed or I sleep on the sofa.
00:04:28
Speaker
I was like, fuck that.
00:04:30
Speaker
Like, if you have your own house, you can just go back to your house and sleep peacefully without having to, you know, you
Roe and Lilla's Take on Living Together
00:04:37
Speaker
have to sleep at something you think is currently like a sly piece of shit or having to sleep on the sofa.
00:04:41
Speaker
Without seething resentment to the man sleeping next to you.
00:04:44
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
So, so that's my, um, and it's just off the table with a boyfriend.
00:04:50
Speaker
I would never consider it with a boyfriend ever.
00:04:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:54
Speaker
So is this going to be like a pros and cons episode?
00:04:57
Speaker
Are we doing a full on debate?
00:04:59
Speaker
Well, no, Savannah's going to say her part.
00:05:01
Speaker
I will say my part.
00:05:01
Speaker
And then Robe, since you've never lived with a man.
00:05:03
Speaker
I've never lived with a man.
00:05:04
Speaker
So I can talk about why.
00:05:05
Speaker
That was crazy to me.
00:05:07
Speaker
By the way, when Robe told me, I've never lived with a boyfriend.
00:05:09
Speaker
I was like...
00:05:11
Speaker
What?
00:05:13
Speaker
I was like, I've lived with almost every serious, like, I don't know, maybe it's just because of the city that I live in.
00:05:19
Speaker
It's so expensive, but like the entire point of dating, the entire point of dating in my city is to find someone that you can split rent with that you can also fuck.
00:05:28
Speaker
Like that's the whole point of dating.
00:05:30
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say as well, like, you know, my position is a bit more nuanced and I would never do it.
00:05:36
Speaker
It also, you know, we'll come to this in the episode as well, but I do think there may be some exceptions and circumstances where it's in a woman's benefit to perhaps move in with a guy.
00:05:49
Speaker
But for me, generally, do you say it's worth a squeeze?
00:05:51
Speaker
Okay, so even, like, price of, you know, cost of living notwithstanding, like, even if I could afford having two houses...
00:05:59
Speaker
I'm just the sort of person, maybe I'm just like a stage five clinger like that, but when I'm in love and when I am in a relationship with someone that I actually like, I just want to spend all of my time with them.
00:06:09
Speaker
Like, maybe not all of my time, but I want to spend a lot of time with them.
00:06:12
Speaker
Like, I really like, and this is another opinion that maybe gets me in trouble on like separatist Twitter, I guess, is that, you know, I love like cuddling.
00:06:21
Speaker
I love falling asleep in each other.
00:06:23
Speaker
But separatist Twitter, separate houses wouldn't even be enough, right?
00:06:25
Speaker
They want men to live on another planet.
00:06:28
Speaker
basically.
00:06:28
Speaker
That's true.
00:06:30
Speaker
Or not exist at all.
00:06:31
Speaker
Even if you live on different planets, they'll be like, nope, not enough.
00:06:34
Speaker
There needs to be different solar systems.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
Different galaxies.
00:06:39
Speaker
No.
00:06:40
Speaker
No, but for me, like, I just, I honestly, when I'm in love, again, I love,
Navigating Cohabitation Challenges
00:06:45
Speaker
like, cuddling.
00:06:46
Speaker
I love falling asleep in each other's arms.
00:06:48
Speaker
I love waking up in each other's arms.
00:06:49
Speaker
I love cooking breakfast together.
00:06:51
Speaker
I love, like, just being together, like, not all the time, but a lot of the time.
00:06:55
Speaker
I just like it.
00:06:56
Speaker
Like, I don't know.
00:06:58
Speaker
Um...
00:06:59
Speaker
I do also like my own company.
00:07:01
Speaker
So yeah, it is important to have your own room.
00:07:03
Speaker
You know, I like to have my own room where I do my hobbies or whatever, or just like go out with friends, like just by myself and not with my boyfriend and so on.
00:07:10
Speaker
Right.
00:07:10
Speaker
Or, you know, obviously when I'm at work, for example, I'm not with my boyfriend and so on.
00:07:14
Speaker
Right.
00:07:16
Speaker
But I don't know.
00:07:16
Speaker
I think the whole point of being in a relationship is like, is that the person, is that,
00:07:22
Speaker
when you're with that person that they're high enough value that they add quality to your life, you know, like being, being like single should be great, but you know, obviously your life should be happy when you're single as well.
00:07:35
Speaker
But like, I would never be in a relationship with someone that I hated or that detracted from my life.
00:07:40
Speaker
Right.
00:07:41
Speaker
So when I'm in a relationship and they add value to my life, that's why I want to spend a lot of time with them.
00:07:45
Speaker
Right.
00:07:46
Speaker
So that's, that's that.
00:07:48
Speaker
But then again, like,
00:07:50
Speaker
That's just me.
00:07:51
Speaker
Like if, you know, if other women, you know, don't want to live with their male partner all the time, then that's fine.
00:07:55
Speaker
The other thing is like, not all men are great to live with.
00:07:58
Speaker
Some men just do actually suck at cohabiting, especially if they expect you to do all the chores.
00:08:02
Speaker
Like in my relationship, I cook, he cleans.
00:08:05
Speaker
And so that's how we like split, you know, house chores and stuff like that.
00:08:09
Speaker
If I was ever in a relationship with a man where he wanted me to do all the cooking and the cleaning, I'd be like, no, fuck that.
00:08:14
Speaker
And it would be a huge turnoff and would make me seem as like sort of a child.
00:08:19
Speaker
You know, like, man, children, it's like, yeah, I can't stand men like that, right?
00:08:22
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:08:24
Speaker
There are some men who are just so shitty that living with them is just not worth it, yeah.
00:08:28
Speaker
But if he pulls his weight around the house, I think it is worth it to live with men.
00:08:32
Speaker
But that's just me.
00:08:33
Speaker
Well, you know, as they say, is it, was it, a distance makes the heart grow fond of?
00:08:40
Speaker
That's true, actually.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:42
Speaker
I guess I'm somewhere in between you two because I'm kind of like Lilith for like the first three months.
00:08:48
Speaker
And then I don't like sleeping next to anybody.
00:08:51
Speaker
For the first three months?
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
Like three months, I'm all over them.
00:08:54
Speaker
And then about three months is when I want to physically get as far away from them as possible when we're sleeping.
00:09:01
Speaker
Like, I don't even like my dog sleeping in my bed because I feel like my dog takes up too much room.
00:09:05
Speaker
Like, and he's not that big.
00:09:07
Speaker
So...
00:09:09
Speaker
I know for sure if I were to ever move into the guy, I've never done it so far.
00:09:12
Speaker
We would have to have at minimum a California King bed if we were going to sleep together, like a wide bed.
00:09:17
Speaker
See, I like when we're both in the same bed and it creates this cavern that forces us to be closer together.
00:09:24
Speaker
I like that, but I'm a fucking weirdo.
00:09:26
Speaker
So again, not for everybody.
00:09:27
Speaker
No, I don't think you're weird.
00:09:28
Speaker
I think it's just... I'm just cuddly like that.
00:09:32
Speaker
cuddling either but it got I know I dated a guy too that always used to fall asleep with the tv on and that just was so old to me too that's why I'm like oh you can't sleep over here okay that's annoying it's like if you need to sleep you need the tv to be on when we're sleeping like this is never gonna work yeah no I have a strict no tv in the bedroom rule the bedroom should be for sleeping and sex only and no eating in the bed that's the other thing
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah, see, I think, yeah, I think that's another thing for me is, is, um, is people sleeping habits.
00:10:01
Speaker
They can be so, so different.
00:10:02
Speaker
So for example, I sleep with a bedside light on, um, like I'll eat in my bed.
00:10:08
Speaker
I don't have a TV, but, but someone else, they might be very, very different.
00:10:12
Speaker
And also, you know, another thing as well is just like the snoring.
00:10:16
Speaker
Some people snore so loud that I just can't sleep.
00:10:20
Speaker
See, I'm the snorer.
00:10:21
Speaker
He's the one who has to put up with me snoring.
00:10:23
Speaker
So, I mean, yeah, my ex was a snorer and I think he actually has sleep apnea.
00:10:27
Speaker
But also the size of the bed for me is not relevant.
00:10:31
Speaker
It could be a twin size.
00:10:32
Speaker
It could be a California king.
00:10:33
Speaker
And I'm still going to colonize 90% of that bed.
00:10:36
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:10:38
Speaker
Like, whatever amount of bed we have, I'm going to take 90% of that.
00:10:43
Speaker
And most of the time, the guy just puts up with it.
00:10:45
Speaker
Because again, the benefits of living with a woman are so high that he just puts up with my shit.
00:10:49
Speaker
With being in a little bitty, tiny piece of the bed.
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
Being practically falling over the edge.
00:10:57
Speaker
Okay, so how do you guys handle situations where one of you wants to go to sleep and the other one doesn't, but you don't necessarily both want to be outside of the bedroom?
00:11:05
Speaker
Because that's also a thing that drives me nuts.
00:11:07
Speaker
Like, if I'm ready to go to bed and then my partner is just walking around behind me doing whatever, you just put absolutely everything outside of your room.
00:11:16
Speaker
Because I have, I mean, I have my electronics in my bedroom.
00:11:20
Speaker
So you just, like, do, like, a no electronics in the bedroom so one person can't be on the computer or their laptop.
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker
by the other one sleeping or no tv in the bedroom see i'm usually the one who goes to bed earlier and so in that case i when i want to go to bed we're going to bed like
00:11:37
Speaker
It doesn't matter what he wants.
00:11:39
Speaker
We're going to bed when I'm going to bed.
00:11:41
Speaker
And if he wants to go to bed later, he can exist outside of the bedroom and has to sneak in really, really quietly so as to not wake me up.
00:11:47
Speaker
That's the rule.
00:11:48
Speaker
So you don't have any, but I'm saying you don't have any electronics or anything in your bed.
00:11:51
Speaker
So like he's not reading in the bedroom.
00:11:53
Speaker
Cause like, you know what I mean?
00:11:53
Speaker
Like if you're asleep and then the other person wants to read or watch TV or mess around on the computer or be on their phone.
00:12:00
Speaker
He does that in the living room.
00:12:01
Speaker
If he wants to be on his phone or whatever, he can go to the bathroom and sit on the toilet on his phone.
00:12:06
Speaker
So basically you make your bedroom a place where you can't do anything but sleep.
00:12:10
Speaker
Whereas like I'm a person that likes to do a lot of things in my bedroom.
00:12:13
Speaker
So yeah, same.
00:12:14
Speaker
See, maybe I'm just a bedroom tyrant like that.
00:12:16
Speaker
I'm like, we're going to do what I want.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to be on my terms.
00:12:22
Speaker
My exes had like a whole sound system like set up in his bedroom.
00:12:26
Speaker
So it was like he would, so like he would, I would go to sleep in his bed and then he'd be up like playing music, but he would have his headphones on so I couldn't really hear it.
00:12:34
Speaker
Right.
00:12:35
Speaker
So he'd be playing.
00:12:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:36
Speaker
That's not so bad.
00:12:37
Speaker
As long as you can't hear it, that's.
00:12:38
Speaker
What's important.
00:12:39
Speaker
But yeah, but it's still some of those things I'm just conscious as another person moving around in the room.
00:12:44
Speaker
Maybe I've just only dated people who've also had stuff going on in their bedroom as well as I do.
00:12:48
Speaker
They're not just sleeping in their bedroom.
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, you want to be in your beds, right?
00:12:52
Speaker
It's more comfortable.
00:12:53
Speaker
So maybe that's what it is.
00:12:54
Speaker
Like, it's just not practical to have electronics in the bedroom or two sets of electronics with two different people.
00:13:00
Speaker
Like, you'd almost have to put a boundary in place and be like, the bedroom is only for sleeping.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yes, that's exactly it.
00:13:06
Speaker
I have rules around the bedroom.
00:13:09
Speaker
And if he wants to live with me, because again, living with me is a privilege, he will obey those rules.
00:13:14
Speaker
Again, I'm a bedroom tyrant.
00:13:16
Speaker
I have to do that too, though.
00:13:17
Speaker
That would make me change my habits.
00:13:19
Speaker
That's why I'm reluctant.
00:13:20
Speaker
That means I have to put all my shit out of my bedroom.
00:13:24
Speaker
So maybe it's like a living together etiquette thing.
00:13:27
Speaker
Like how do you, how do you cohabitate with high etiquette with another person in a way that's comfortable and realistic for both of you?
00:13:36
Speaker
And then two, are there like pros and cons actually cohabiting?
00:13:38
Speaker
Obviously the big pros are saving on money.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker
But then there's some cons as far as like women feeling like they fall into the wifey role without the actual wifey title.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's the other thing.
00:13:50
Speaker
There's actually a post on the subreddit that I might, maybe we'll pull it up and talk about it, that I saw early in my FDS days, and that was like a total game changer for me, because it was like, never live with a boyfriend until you're married, and me, having lived with almost every single serious relationship I've ever had, was like...
00:14:08
Speaker
How dare you personally attack me like this?
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's part of my aversion to living together too.
00:14:14
Speaker
I can't see myself seriously living with a guy unless we were engaged.
00:14:18
Speaker
And a big part of that is because I would have to change.
00:14:20
Speaker
Because I would, yeah, I would have to start to worry about him all of the time if we were living together in a way that you don't when you're living apart, right?
00:14:28
Speaker
Because then you're truly making decisions for two once you're living in the same space.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:14:36
Speaker
And I think it's too easy for, especially if you move in to save money, which I think if you live in a major city like, you know, London, where the rents are absolutely, it's just essentially criminal, like how expensive it is.
00:14:51
Speaker
But it's just too easy to get into a situation where your, you know, where your living situation is basically tied to your relationship.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely risky, actually.
00:15:03
Speaker
And that's actually another reason why a lot of women find themselves in abusive relationships is because if you live in a city where it's really expensive and you can't afford to live on your own, a lot of women will feel like they have to put up with bad treatment or bad behavior from men and that they can't leave.
00:15:18
Speaker
Otherwise, you know, they'll be homeless.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's important to have lived on your own before you live in a relationship with a boyfriend so that you know you can handle it and leave.
00:15:28
Speaker
Because yeah, there's maybe this inertia that sets in when you've never lived by yourself.
00:15:32
Speaker
Like it might seem more of a hurdle and it might seem a little bit scary if you've never done it before.
00:15:37
Speaker
And that's, I mean, and part of my version to living with anybody is just because I had roommates at one point and I've had both male and female roommates.
00:15:44
Speaker
And I was like, oh no, I can't be doing this.
00:15:46
Speaker
Like afterwards,
00:15:48
Speaker
When I was younger and broker.
00:15:50
Speaker
And then once I could afford to live on my own, I've lived on my own ever since.
00:15:53
Speaker
There's so much roommate drama I've had over the years.
00:15:56
Speaker
And even the ones that were nice, there was just times where I was like, I'm just kind of tired of looking at you.
00:16:01
Speaker
And it wasn't like anything personal.
00:16:02
Speaker
It's just like...
00:16:04
Speaker
A roommate, do you share a room?
00:16:06
Speaker
Is that what it means?
00:16:07
Speaker
Or do you share rooms in a house?
00:16:09
Speaker
You share rooms in a house or an apartment.
00:16:12
Speaker
So we weren't living in the same room.
00:16:13
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:16:13
Speaker
Flatmate, okay.
00:16:14
Speaker
It's like flatmate, I guess, is what you'd say.
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker
So roommates are a little different for me because with roommates, it's more sort of like consensus-based.
00:16:24
Speaker
You're all equals.
00:16:25
Speaker
You have to like, you know, it's a fair and equal partnership and all...
00:16:28
Speaker
and all that again, I'm in the home.
00:16:31
Speaker
I'm a tyrant.
00:16:31
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, no, this is my house.
00:16:34
Speaker
Even if it's, even if it's his house and I'm moving in with him, as soon as I live with him, it's my house because I just, again, women engage in like nesting behavior kind of thing.
00:16:44
Speaker
At least like, this is what I tell men so that they have to put up with my shit is that like when women move into a place, they have to like make it their own home.
00:16:51
Speaker
It's like, you know, feminine nesting behavior or whatever.
00:16:54
Speaker
And then he just like does whatever I tell him to do.
00:16:57
Speaker
And then, um,
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, like if I want the walls painted a certain color, we're painting the walls a certain color.
00:17:02
Speaker
If I want things to be a certain way, if I want him to throw out his big old ugly armchair, we're throwing out the big old ugly armchair.
00:17:08
Speaker
I don't know.
00:17:09
Speaker
Interestingly enough, I've done that to men's places that I haven't actually lived in.
00:17:14
Speaker
I've just been like, I don't like your decoration.
00:17:16
Speaker
We're redecorating.
00:17:18
Speaker
Because I said so.
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, I just didn't like it.
00:17:21
Speaker
And then so we went, I remember multiple times specifically going to like the home store with boyfriends and being like, yeah, we're going to make your place look nicer.
00:17:29
Speaker
And telling him to buy stuff.
00:17:30
Speaker
Because I'm like, if I'm going to spend significant time over here, I need to be wallowing in comfort.
00:17:36
Speaker
No, that's exactly it.
00:17:37
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, if you want me to spend more time... And the thing is, I know a lot of people are probably listening to me thinking I'm a horrible person, but honestly, the men that I date, they like spending time with me too, okay?
00:17:47
Speaker
They're mostly fine with going along with whatever color I want or changing the trim on the fucking door frames or whatever minor detailing I want to do to his house.
00:17:56
Speaker
They're usually fine with that because, again, they're like, well, okay, as long as she's going to be coming over every day and cooking for me and we're going to be fucking every day, for him it's worth it too, okay?
00:18:05
Speaker
So...
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:06
Speaker
Maybe we should do like a pros versus cons debate.
00:18:09
Speaker
So the first pro is obviously you save on rent.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:14
Speaker
That can be like quite substantial, especially like we've said, if you live in a big city or if you can't yet afford to get your own place.
Financial and Domestic Dynamics of Cohabitation
00:18:25
Speaker
because I don't know how it is over where you guys are, but at least here, even if you want to rent a place, like, because I remember when I was looking for somewhere to rent and I was like losing to couples.
00:18:38
Speaker
Even if you're renting, estate agents prefer if you, if you apply as part of a couple, then if you apply as a single person, because they just see it as, well, you've got dual incomes as opposed to one.
00:18:50
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:18:51
Speaker
I don't, I don't know if that's true here or not.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah, I know I lost out to a couple of couples because I was applying on my own.
00:18:58
Speaker
They would always ask, oh, you're applying with somebody else?
00:19:01
Speaker
I'd always say no, because the landlord, basically, they get to pick.
00:19:05
Speaker
And it's probably the same if you want to buy as well, because, you know, two incomes are better than one.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, if you want to buy a place, yeah.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah, if you want to buy a house, it's easier to get a mortgage if there's two incomes rather than one.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
So, but then the, the big drawback to that is dependency dependency, but also on the mortgage is like, if you split up, then you have shared debt, which shared debt is really, really, really hard to get out of.
00:19:31
Speaker
So yeah, I def I would definitely never, ever, ever buy a house with a guy unless you are married.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:54
Speaker
So she, I think she had to be bought out, but she ended up losing about 20 grand.
00:20:00
Speaker
Like she never got the money back because they were a negative equity.
00:20:03
Speaker
I have another horror story, actually, a friend of mine.
00:20:06
Speaker
They were actually married, but they bought a home.
00:20:08
Speaker
She bought a homestead.
00:20:09
Speaker
She basically married this guy because he wanted a homestead and she wanted to do homesteading and they had nothing else in common.
00:20:15
Speaker
Like there was no other compatibility other than both wanting to be a little house on the prairie kind of thing.
00:20:25
Speaker
So they bought a homestead together.
00:20:26
Speaker
Like they spent a couple of years like building it up, making it exactly how they wanted it and so on and like buying animals together.
00:20:33
Speaker
And like this, it was like this whole thing.
00:20:35
Speaker
And then they, the, the relationship just got slowly more and more toxic.
00:20:39
Speaker
Eventually they had to get a divorce and like, yeah, like they had to sell the homestead for less than what they bought it for, by the way, actually, because the housing market was like really hot when they bought it and it had, has since like cooled down a bit.
00:20:53
Speaker
So they actually lost money and like, not, not only is it like, did they lose money on it, but now they're sort of like, um, you know, they spent all that time building up their sort of dream house and like, they weren't able to, you know, she tried to buy him out and it wasn't possible and stuff.
00:21:08
Speaker
And so, yeah, she lost her sort of like dream house after spending all that time.
00:21:11
Speaker
Right.
00:21:11
Speaker
So that's the other risk to, that's the other thing is like, make sure before you buy a house with a man, even if you're married, um,
00:21:19
Speaker
Make sure you've done your due diligence and have like vetted him and like have done as much work as possible to be able to foresee future problems and prevent divorce from happening.
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, like don't just marry a guy just so that you can have someone to buy a house with.
00:21:34
Speaker
There's a pretty funny episode of tiny house.
00:21:37
Speaker
This is like, do you guys ever seen the tiny house show?
00:21:40
Speaker
like youtube stories but it's basically it's basically kind of like that where it was like a man and woman made met on a dating app and then she really really wanted some guy to build her a tiny house and so he builds her this tiny house and then you could tell that like he doesn't want to live with her anymore but like she's all in on this tiny house but it was like they didn't know each other for very long before they moved in together and like they're they're showing off their tiny house that he built but like she's all in on it but he's kind of like
00:22:08
Speaker
basically sarcastic the entire time about the fact that he just met this girl off of a dating app and then built her a whole home and she's still complaining and stuff.
00:22:16
Speaker
It's actually pretty funny.
00:22:19
Speaker
I'm going to need you to share the link with me because I want to see this right after.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, see if I can find it.
00:22:24
Speaker
So, okay.
00:22:24
Speaker
So, another...
00:22:26
Speaker
Pro to living together is, in theory, shared domestic labor.
00:22:31
Speaker
In theory.
00:22:32
Speaker
Even though that's not the case often in practice.
00:22:35
Speaker
Apparently, married mothers actually do more domestic labor than single moms, like in terms of hours per week, because when you have a whole extra person to clean up after who's not pulling their weight.
00:22:47
Speaker
I'd say that's a pretty massive con, actually, in most cases.
00:22:51
Speaker
But there are some rare circumstances where if the man is pulling his weight...
00:22:56
Speaker
Especially if like someone like me, like I like cooking, but I don't like cleaning.
00:22:59
Speaker
So if there's someone I can delegate that undesirable task to, I will take that option.
00:23:04
Speaker
I'll be honest.
00:23:05
Speaker
I've been the messier person in all of my relationships, but that's because I have a million hair products and makeup products and everything else.
00:23:12
Speaker
Like I'm a woman, right?
00:23:13
Speaker
So I have more, every single guy I've dated has like had very simple clothing.
00:23:18
Speaker
They're, they're stylish, meaning like they focus on their clothes, but everything's like very neatly organized and they have just shirts, pants,
00:23:24
Speaker
sweaters, right?
00:23:25
Speaker
Whereas women, we have dresses, short dresses, long dresses, formal dresses, casual dresses, et cetera, right?
00:23:31
Speaker
And then when it's in the bathroom, they have like a small collection of grooming products they use, like their hair stuff, their shave stuff.
00:23:37
Speaker
The three-in-one shampoo.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
And then I have like curly hair shampoo, straight hair shampoo, glosser, blow butter.
00:23:45
Speaker
Blow dry butter.
00:23:47
Speaker
Oh, blow dry butter.
00:23:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:49
Speaker
Body butter, yeah.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:50
Speaker
Body butter, blow dry butter, everything.
00:23:52
Speaker
So just like a million and one beauty products.
00:23:55
Speaker
And so even when I go over their house, I have like my away bag and it's just full of beauty products and stuff.
00:24:00
Speaker
And then I have to like consciously keep myself from spreading it out all over their sink.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:05
Speaker
Same, same.
00:24:06
Speaker
Like my makeup, then all of my, like my, uh, my hair type specific stuff.
00:24:11
Speaker
So I'm like, if I'm going to wear it straight, I got to bring, okay, you got to bring your heat protectant and your hair serum and your blow dry butter and your blow dryer and your brown brush and your paddle brush and your flat eye.
00:24:22
Speaker
It honestly feels like you're like a portable hair shop when you travel or go somewhere.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, so that's kind of the thing with guys I've dated where I have to say that I've been the messier one, not because I'm, like, filthy or anything, but, like, because I've just had so many more things than them.
00:24:44
Speaker
And it's at times been annoying to them.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, again, from my perspective, he just has to put up with the things about me that are annoying.
00:24:53
Speaker
I agree.
00:24:54
Speaker
So I don't care about that.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:57
Speaker
But yeah.
00:24:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:59
Speaker
So shared domestic labor and cleaning, but what about things like cooking and laundry, et cetera?
00:25:04
Speaker
Cause I've never lived with a guy such that I've had to do his laundry.
00:25:07
Speaker
I've stayed over and cooked with guys, but.
00:25:09
Speaker
I only ever do my laundry and he does his laundry.
00:25:12
Speaker
We do it.
00:25:12
Speaker
We keep our laundry separate because we do our laundry differently.
00:25:15
Speaker
So that, that I've never done laundry for a man.
00:25:19
Speaker
I just do my own laundry.
00:25:21
Speaker
cooking.
00:25:22
Speaker
Again, I like the act of cooking and it's not like a wifey material kind of thing.
00:25:26
Speaker
No, it's like, I actually like the physical process of making food.
00:25:30
Speaker
It's meditative to me.
00:25:31
Speaker
It's relaxing.
00:25:33
Speaker
Every meal I make for myself, if I'm single is a gourmet meal.
00:25:36
Speaker
And when I'm in a relationship, it's, I still make gourmet meals for myself and it's like, okay, he can just have some of my food kind of thing.
00:25:44
Speaker
Right.
00:25:44
Speaker
That's been hit or miss with me too, because I've dated guys that are really into fitness.
00:25:48
Speaker
So they have a very limited amount of things that they eat.
00:25:51
Speaker
Okay, well, those guys are annoying, so.
00:25:52
Speaker
And then I've also dated guys who are chubby.
00:25:55
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, it's a pro and a con.
00:25:57
Speaker
Like, my experience with the guys that cook all the time and like where they like to eat a diverse amount of things like I do, if I'm over their house, they tend to clean.
00:26:05
Speaker
If they're over my place, I tend to clean.
00:26:07
Speaker
And that's, we just split it that way.
00:26:10
Speaker
And that's just how I've always worked it out in my relationships.
00:26:12
Speaker
But the guys that were like, basically ate bird food, I ended up cleaning because they didn't eat.
00:26:17
Speaker
They'll have like a veggie shake and a sandwich.
00:26:22
Speaker
Okay, no, those guys, I categorically reject those kinds of men.
00:26:25
Speaker
I mean, I've dated those fitness bros and I just, I can't be around them because it makes me feel, I get like an eating disorder by proxy.
00:26:34
Speaker
So no, I just don't, if he has like, if he's one of those guys that only eats like
00:26:38
Speaker
lean chicken breast and like broccoli for every meal and like brown rice brown rice chicken breast broccoli or they eat out all the time like they basically eat i'm trying to think they eat they have coffee green smoothies and then like yeah like a salad or something they would get from like uh like a whole foods bar or something like that so they just weren't guys that cooked regularly and they just ate like birds and
00:27:01
Speaker
No, I only date guys that are not picky eaters.
00:27:04
Speaker
That's the other thing.
00:27:05
Speaker
I eat a wide variety of foods, so any man who has any kind of dietary restriction, immediate next.
00:27:11
Speaker
That's another standard of mine.
00:27:12
Speaker
A man has to be a flexible eater.
00:27:14
Speaker
If he's like, I don't eat vegetables, next.
00:27:18
Speaker
If he's vegan, next.
00:27:20
Speaker
If he's one of those weird carnivore diet guys, next.
00:27:24
Speaker
If he's one of those high-protein, never-eat-a-carb-or-a-gram-of-fat people, next.
00:27:30
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I only date guys, I only date guys who eat a wide variety of foods because I also eat a wide variety of foods.
00:27:36
Speaker
And so, yeah, most of the time the guy is just like happy to eat whatever I make and what I would make for myself anyways.
00:27:43
Speaker
Um, and yeah.
00:27:45
Speaker
So how did you guys split like cleaning your place or cleaning like laundry and stuff?
00:27:49
Speaker
Cause that's the other thing too.
00:27:50
Speaker
Cause like, I didn't do any of that shit for any of the guys.
00:27:52
Speaker
I'm like, you clean your shit, your house.
00:27:54
Speaker
I clean my shit at my house.
00:27:56
Speaker
So one thing with men that I highly recommend women do is not move in with a guy who has not lived with himself before.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yes, agreed.
00:28:06
Speaker
Because that's like a really important thing.
00:28:08
Speaker
A lot of men, if they've only ever lived with their mom or a girlfriend, they often have like no idea...
00:28:16
Speaker
how much work it is to maintain a household.
00:28:18
Speaker
So that's another one of my standards when I'm dating is like, I'll only ever date or move in with a guy who's previously lived by himself before most of those.
00:28:26
Speaker
And, and not just has he lived by himself, but he's had to have done a pretty good job of it too.
00:28:30
Speaker
Like if I go to his house and it looks like a shithole,
00:28:33
Speaker
also next okay yeah that's definitely a vetting strategy i highly recommend i would never be around a guy who i i feel uncomfortable at this place yeah i'd agree like straight up he has to do a good reasonably good job it doesn't have to be like perfect perfect but like it can't be a slum okay so you don't you don't want to be with a detsy peeg let us remind everyone no detsy peeg throw back to the episode with savannah's mom
00:29:00
Speaker
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00:29:04
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:59
Speaker
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00:30:04
Speaker
Thanks and back to the show.
00:30:06
Speaker
So I guess the vetting strategy would be there.
00:30:08
Speaker
Make sure if you're going to move into the guy, he's already lived by himself.
00:30:11
Speaker
But also you should always live by yourself at least once if you can swing it.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:30:17
Speaker
Having the ability to know you can live on your own.
00:30:20
Speaker
And then if anything goes on in your relationship, you'll have that confidence built in.
00:30:25
Speaker
Whereas sometimes I feel like the leap from living with roommates to living alone can be kind of daunting for people and make them stay in relationships.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:31
Speaker
And it's also about you being able and having the confidence to set boundaries.
00:30:37
Speaker
Because when you are living together with somebody else, especially if your living styles may not mesh, you're going to need to communicate and to set and uphold new boundaries as well.
00:30:48
Speaker
And it can be sometimes difficult to do that if you've always lived in other people's spaces or you haven't really just had that experience as well.
00:30:58
Speaker
And now that I'm thinking about it too, like...
00:31:00
Speaker
Because I have a lot of siblings.
00:31:02
Speaker
There's also a certain level of awareness that I have about other people that some of my boyfriends who've had one or two or maybe zero siblings don't know.
00:31:12
Speaker
Like what?
00:31:12
Speaker
I mean, I found that every guy I've dated that either had a sibling that was much older than them and they didn't grow up together and were used to having certain levels of...
00:31:23
Speaker
hang time between when things are perfect or not versus guys who had siblings.
00:31:27
Speaker
There's like a difference.
00:31:27
Speaker
So one guy, for example, like when I would get out of the shower, like sometimes I would drip water and he just would freak about it.
00:31:33
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, that's why we put down towels, you know, like that's just kind of a normal thing.
00:31:38
Speaker
But I'm like, I have hair and you don't.
00:31:40
Speaker
Right.
00:31:40
Speaker
But he was an only child.
00:31:42
Speaker
So, oh, yeah, no, that's another red flag is like any man that freaks out over anything that I do, especially minor things.
00:31:50
Speaker
That's another red flag.
00:31:51
Speaker
That's another next.
00:31:52
Speaker
Another quality that I look for in a man is being is like being like patient or just not.
00:31:59
Speaker
freaking out over minor things, you know?
00:32:01
Speaker
Well, he's not used to there being any mess at any given time other than his.
00:32:05
Speaker
So like, that's kind of the thing with, if you have siblings or if you've had a lot of roommates, then you kind of get used to the fact that sometimes things aren't perfect, not gross.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:16
Speaker
And not like a person not pulling their weight, but like, I feel like it's perfectly reasonable if you're just getting out of the shower, the shower bathroom is going to be wet.
00:32:23
Speaker
Right.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
No, my boyfriend has two sisters.
00:32:26
Speaker
So, I mean, like he knows what it's like, okay.
00:32:28
Speaker
He knows what it's like to live with women.
00:32:29
Speaker
He's chill about it.
00:32:30
Speaker
So, I mean, and that's another thing I look for in men is like, if they've only ever lived with either no siblings or only ever lived with brothers, they're
00:32:38
Speaker
A lot of them can be weird about stuff like, you know, like periods or whatever.
00:32:42
Speaker
Right.
00:32:42
Speaker
And it can be kind of immature like that.
00:32:44
Speaker
So yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:46
Speaker
It's important for a guy to have a fat siblings, ideally also sisters, but yeah, that's another thing to look out for.
00:32:52
Speaker
Um, what's another pro of living together before we get to the cons?
00:32:55
Speaker
So I like having sex every day when I, when I like my boyfriend and when I am physically attracted to him.
Intimacy and Commitment Issues
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
I just like fucking every day.
00:33:02
Speaker
That's just like how it'd be.
00:33:04
Speaker
So work.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
Like if he's good at sex, that is.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:13
Speaker
I hear you.
00:33:13
Speaker
I'm trying to think how we mostly worked it out.
00:33:16
Speaker
Like, yeah, I guess it is kind of a barrier, especially how, depending on how far I lived from the guy, it could be like a couple of days before we had sex.
00:33:26
Speaker
But then sometimes the anticipation to me was good.
00:33:29
Speaker
So you just meet up and you just fuck all weekend and then you go about your business.
00:33:33
Speaker
I don't know.
00:33:33
Speaker
I guess it felt like I would miss them more because they weren't there every day, but then I've never lived with a guy.
00:33:38
Speaker
So you have no basis of comparison.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah, I guess.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:41
Speaker
Do you ever get like fatigue?
00:33:42
Speaker
Because again, once again, it's about three months before I'm wanting the guy to like not be sleeping in my bed on a consistent basis.
00:33:49
Speaker
even though it's not even every night because we don't live together.
00:33:52
Speaker
But even if it's like every other night, I'm like always mentally bracing myself for the fact that I have to sleep with another person.
00:33:57
Speaker
So like, even if I, we were having sex every day, I wondering if I would still have the same, like just touch fatigue, you know, with that person where I would feel like, okay, I need you to be on the, I like having sex with you, but after we have sex, I need you to be like on the opposite side in the corner in a little ball.
00:34:13
Speaker
So I don't know what you mean.
00:34:17
Speaker
See, that's a problem that the second property would solve because you can still have sex every day, but then he just retreats to his side of the house and I retreat to mine.
00:34:26
Speaker
That's it.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, I just get touch fatigue.
00:34:29
Speaker
I don't know how to explain that.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, I see what you mean.
00:34:31
Speaker
I very much like Savannah's
00:34:33
Speaker
ideal situation of like having two houses on the same property kind of thing.
00:34:37
Speaker
Um, I, here's the thing, even though I like living with my partner at absolute minimum, I would want to have two bedrooms.
00:34:45
Speaker
I could not live in like a one bedroom apartment or a small space like that, or studio apartment.
00:34:49
Speaker
Agreed.
00:34:50
Speaker
Agreed.
00:34:50
Speaker
God, no.
00:34:51
Speaker
Like I need to have like a second bedroom and have that be either like a guest bedroom or like a hobby room or TV room or I don't know, literally any room that also has a bed.
00:35:02
Speaker
Just in case, like, I don't know, maybe I need to get up early in the morning or, you know, if I'm just, like, feeling particularly tired and I just don't, you know.
00:35:10
Speaker
Oh, and the other thing is, like, I don't like living with men if they're a very, like, annoying sleeper.
00:35:14
Speaker
Like, because I am a pretty light sleeper, so I need a man to sleep like a corpse.
00:35:19
Speaker
If he sleeps, like, if he's really, like, moving a lot or talks in his sleep or does any sleepwalking, that's another next for me.
00:35:27
Speaker
Even if he's...
00:35:30
Speaker
I know that sounds mean, like, oh, but he can't control that kind of thing.
00:35:32
Speaker
It's like, I don't care.
00:35:33
Speaker
I need him to sleep like a dead body, literally.
00:35:37
Speaker
Because, you know, if he doesn't do that, then I'm sleeping in a separate bed just because I need to get my beauty sleep.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:45
Speaker
Sorry if that's a lot to take in.
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm not disagreeing.
00:35:50
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I'm trying to think of like realistically how I would prefer to have a sleeping arrangement.
00:35:56
Speaker
And I think I would want the option somewhere in the house where I could sleep by myself.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
So I think I agree.
00:36:02
Speaker
We would have to have like two bedrooms.
00:36:04
Speaker
I think we're all in agreement on that.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker
And not even if you're mad at your partner, but sometimes you just touch fatigue or if one of you sick, because the other thing too, is like, it's gross if one of you sick and you just need them to be in another place.
00:36:15
Speaker
So yeah.
00:36:16
Speaker
I'm pretty sure as well, like, in the Victorian times, it wasn't the norm for, like, rich or, like, upper middle class, that's rich couples to share a bedroom.
00:36:27
Speaker
Like, if you're middle to upper class, it's actually quite normal to have separate bedrooms.
00:36:30
Speaker
I was going to say that, because I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of...
00:36:32
Speaker
places in the world where people only have one room and they do literally everything in that one room, but they're less developed countries.
00:36:38
Speaker
Even in like more developed countries, if you're poor, like my great grandparents, when they were, my great grandparents, when they were out colonizing and shit, they lived in like one single like log house, right?
00:36:51
Speaker
Like it was like one room where they slept, you know, the kitchen was there, everything.
00:36:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
There's one room there and they did everything.
00:36:58
Speaker
And if they
00:36:59
Speaker
wanted to go to the bathroom, there was an outhouse kind of thing.
00:37:03
Speaker
But yeah.
00:37:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:03
Speaker
So do we have any more pros before I move on to the cons?
00:37:06
Speaker
No, I think that's all the pros that I can think of.
00:37:10
Speaker
So I think the big con, and this has been backed up with a lot of research, is that
00:37:15
Speaker
If you move him with a guy, it gets much, much harder to convince him to propose, right?
00:37:22
Speaker
And to make some momentum towards marriage because once again, he's getting all the milk for free so he doesn't have to buy the cow.
00:37:30
Speaker
So the old school advice about not moving with a man unless you're...
00:37:35
Speaker
planning on being married, I think holds firm or like, and that's, and that's how I feel about it too, because I'm like, I'm not making decisions for two people unless these two people have committed to be with each other for the rest of our lives or in some massive amount of concrete commitment.
00:37:51
Speaker
Because I feel like the minute you move in together, you're
00:37:54
Speaker
you start to go into that mode where you're now thinking for two.
00:37:57
Speaker
Whereas if you live apart, I'm making my decisions based on what's best for my life.
00:38:01
Speaker
You're making your decisions based on what's best for your life.
00:38:03
Speaker
And you converge on certain issues.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
And it's fine because you don't give a shit because you don't live together.
00:38:09
Speaker
But once you start to live together, you start having to make joint decisions.
00:38:12
Speaker
And to me, that's like where, okay, you better be trying to put a ring on it because I'm not going to just keep making decisions that benefit you or compromise with you.
00:38:21
Speaker
without any type of return on that.
00:38:23
Speaker
And there was actually, just off the back of that, there was a really interesting study that was shared quite some time ago on the subreddit, and I'll link it in the show notes as well.
00:38:35
Speaker
But they basically found that within the sample size of the men, they found that 52% of cohabiting men between the ages of 18 and 26 are not cohabiting
00:38:48
Speaker
like certain that their relationship is permanent and a large majority so 41 percent they reported that they're not completely committed to their living girlfriends so actually a guy wanting to move in with you by itself is also it isn't a sign of commitment or that he's committed to you even though that's how it's often presented oh he's serious about you let's move in together that's not always the case as well
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:12
Speaker
It's mommy McBang made and convenient pussy subscription.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:16
Speaker
What you're saying is reflected in this Reddit post.
00:39:18
Speaker
It was one of the posts on FBS that I saw early in my days and I was felt really personally attacked by it.
00:39:24
Speaker
Um, but yeah, saying that men who live with their girlfriends see them as a convenience, uh, not as like a real equal partner.
00:39:32
Speaker
Right.
00:39:32
Speaker
And, and, um, from some of my friends who've lived with guys, you'd be surprised at how much guys will live with you and still make decisions for themselves.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:40
Speaker
That's why you need to have some kind of firm commitment before you move in with a guy because he's still moving as if he's making a decision for what's best for himself, even though you live together and you're not, you're still not technically a joint as a couple, even though I think most women would see it that way.
00:39:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:55
Speaker
And I think a way to perhaps to potentially vet for that is if he does bring up moving in together is to find out why, um, if it's all about saving money, then he's still making decisions in his best interests.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:10
Speaker
if that makes sense as well.
00:40:11
Speaker
So, but if he, you know, says, or, you know, like my, you know, if he says, for example, I want to be closer to you or something like that, then that's perhaps deeper consideration.
00:40:22
Speaker
But if the first default is he just wants to save money, I don't think that's a good enough reason to move in with a guy because he should be financially stable anyway.
00:40:32
Speaker
And he should be able to live on his own, ideally.
00:40:34
Speaker
True.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, he should be able to live on his own, ideally.
00:40:36
Speaker
So that's one big con.
00:40:38
Speaker
So the other reality and the other big con to me is that, okay, if you break up, you have to move out all your stuff.
Consequences of Cohabitation on Relationships
00:40:45
Speaker
Every time I broke up with a guy, I have all the shit I've had at his house been in a box or a bag, and then I just leave.
00:40:51
Speaker
Versus me having to make a big dramatic exit.
00:40:54
Speaker
with like a moving truck, et cetera.
00:40:56
Speaker
You know, and if he's a piece of shit, that becomes even more tricky because you got to try to move out when he's not there, if you're scared of him or anything like that.
00:41:04
Speaker
Or just bring a bunch of your friends.
00:41:05
Speaker
Like what I did with my last relationship is bring a few friends just to just be in the parking lot.
00:41:10
Speaker
Come outside.
00:41:11
Speaker
We're not going to hurt you.
00:41:12
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
00:41:15
Speaker
Just in case he decides to throw hands, you've got more people on your team.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
Start leaping a little bit.
00:41:19
Speaker
Start becoming a boxing kangaroo.
00:41:24
Speaker
check our patreon content like i just feel like it's so much more dramatic if you break up and you live together right yeah it is a huge pain in the ass that is true here's the other thing too there's a couple of men i didn't get in relationships with because they were still living with an ex when we met what wait what yeah where they were like listen like we can't break our lease till this time so it's i'm going to be living with her for like four months i
00:41:52
Speaker
wouldn't even date a man like that fuck that well i didn't know i didn't know to like they told me later about their living situation so that's where i was like okay yeah i'd dump his ass no yeah that's why i was like i didn't end up dating them because of that where i was like yeah your life's like you know my motto right now it's like yeah it sounds like you got a lot going on it sounds like you're going through a lot right now that's my out for everything at this point because i just don't want to deal with it um
00:42:19
Speaker
Smart.
00:42:20
Speaker
So, but yeah, that's, that's another thing too, is that, okay, let's say you do break up and both your names are on the lease.
00:42:26
Speaker
And then, um, you could, it could go on your credit report if you try to break your lease and, and there's all sorts of financial downsides if you need to leave, or you could do it the other way where only one of you is on the lease.
00:42:38
Speaker
And then there's always a risk that he like wants to kick you out or does something like that, you know, like something foul like that, or it doesn't pay rent.
00:42:44
Speaker
And then you're the only person on the hook if you're on the lease and he's not.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:42:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:42:49
Speaker
See, the way I've dealt with that in the past is I'll get it so that we have a co-signer that's one of his relatives, but not one of my relatives.
00:42:57
Speaker
So that way, like, and it's like a relative that, like, he wouldn't want to piss off.
00:43:02
Speaker
And so if something goes wrong or whatever, you know, he can't just, like, bounce and, like, you know, leave me with the rent or, you know, like, basically, my name's on the lease, but I'm not...
00:43:14
Speaker
It's kind of this like thing where it's like, if you're going down, like we're, we're both coming down and I'm going to bring down one of your relatives kind of thing.
00:43:20
Speaker
So it'll like, and up more heavily, like the consequences will weigh much more heavily on him.
00:43:25
Speaker
Also don't put yourself in a situation where your name's not on the lease, because that also puts you in a bad situation.
00:43:30
Speaker
So I'll say the reason why I've never lived with a guy is because I once rented an apartment from one of my boyfriend's friend's fathers.
00:43:39
Speaker
And that situation turned out to be a nightmare because of the fact that like,
00:43:44
Speaker
that the men who owned the building was like emotionally unstable.
00:43:49
Speaker
It was a really, really bad situation.
00:43:51
Speaker
And so it always left a bad taste in my mouth where I'm like, I don't like this situation where it feels like, okay, I'm caught between like, this is my boyfriend's friend.
00:44:00
Speaker
I'm trying not to like be disrespectful of this entire situation, but at the same time, like,
00:44:04
Speaker
some things going around here are toxic.
00:44:06
Speaker
And then I felt like really like bullied and I wasn't getting all the support I wanted from my boyfriend, but like, this is like his, his good friend and like their close families, et cetera.
00:44:14
Speaker
So then I felt like the odd person out.
00:44:16
Speaker
And so then I left.
00:44:17
Speaker
So every situation for me, when I look at the idea of moving over the guy, I don't like that power imbalance.
00:44:24
Speaker
Like I'm just straight up like, no, I'm never being in a situation where I'm
00:44:28
Speaker
A guy has the power to make me feel unwanted or, like, kick me out in my own home.
00:44:32
Speaker
And then, too, obviously, the things I said before about, like, just not wanting to commit to making decisions for two people if we're not on and get married, like, putting it down legally.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:45
Speaker
Again, that's another point that was brought up.
00:44:47
Speaker
I'm not going to read the whole Reddit post.
00:44:48
Speaker
We'll just like, I guess, leave this Reddit post in the show notes.
00:44:51
Speaker
But yeah, one of the points was that when you move in with someone like that, you do lose power.
00:44:56
Speaker
Like you do lose, like, I guess, negotiating power, especially, yeah, the scenario that you described that puts definitely more power in his situation.
00:45:06
Speaker
Well, in that situation, too, the reason why I rented for him because he gave it to me to a steep discount.
00:45:10
Speaker
But like, that's the thing.
00:45:12
Speaker
It's like sometimes.
00:45:13
Speaker
It's too good to be true.
00:45:14
Speaker
It probably is.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:15
Speaker
That's sometimes what happens.
00:45:16
Speaker
I was like, oh, like the reason why it's cheap to live here is because he's a nut job and you got to deal with certain aspects of his like toxic personality.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
So that's the thing about it.
00:45:25
Speaker
To me, I have such a bad taste in my mouth from either roommates that were bad or a situation where I wasn't even living with my boyfriend.
00:45:32
Speaker
I was living in an adjacent way to someone related to my boyfriend.
00:45:37
Speaker
And that was fucking toxic.
00:45:38
Speaker
And I was like, there's just no way I could ever be in a situation again where I didn't have complete control over my domain.
00:45:46
Speaker
So the other big, big, big, big con to me is like, let's say the relationship's over.
00:45:50
Speaker
How do you start dating again?
00:45:51
Speaker
What do you mean?
00:45:52
Speaker
If you're living together...
00:45:53
Speaker
just move out but if moving out isn't an option as well especially like we've said because if the rental market is crap or you haven't saved for a deposit um because you know whilst i think it's always even if you are living with somebody you um you sort of have to almost act like you're living alone in in the sense that you know have an emergency fund and all that jazz but it can be a while before you get somewhere suitable potentially for some people
00:46:17
Speaker
Yeah, I have a bunch of people in my phone that I could just crash on their couch for a few weeks if I needed to.
00:46:24
Speaker
So I'm good.
00:46:25
Speaker
I've always got a plan B. That's the other thing is always make sure you have a plan B somewhere you can go relatives, friends, wherever.
00:46:32
Speaker
If you God forbid, if anything were to happen, happen, even if you just go ahead in an argument somewhere, you know, I'm staying with my sister.
00:46:38
Speaker
I'm going to stay with my sister tonight, something like that, you know?
00:46:41
Speaker
Here's the thing, though, as well, but I mean, some people literally move states to move in with their partner.
00:46:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's insane.
00:46:46
Speaker
I'd never do that.
00:46:47
Speaker
That's actually my problem, too.
00:46:48
Speaker
It's like I don't live where my family lives.
00:46:51
Speaker
So, like, I have some friends I could probably crash with, but also they have boyfriends and girlfriends.
00:46:56
Speaker
So it's like that would also be weird.
00:46:58
Speaker
So I don't live in proximity to my family.
00:47:00
Speaker
So it's not easy for me to just, like, pack up and leave and stay with one of them.
00:47:04
Speaker
Yeah, same.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah, and then once again, like, if you're moving with a guy, like, you're basically saying, I'm in this to win this, too.
00:47:09
Speaker
And, like, you're not...
00:47:11
Speaker
I don't know how to say it like this, but like you're almost cutting yourself off from the opportunity to even date anybody else if you're not sure about the relationship.
00:47:19
Speaker
So I'm just so against like moving in with a guy you're not 100% sure you're going to be committed to.
00:47:23
Speaker
Because then I feel like, okay, just think about the amount of time it would take you to like, okay, you're in a breakup, then you have to leave and you have to like set up your place and your new apartment, et cetera.
00:47:31
Speaker
And like, you're just not, you're just off the market all that time.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:35
Speaker
I don't know.
00:47:35
Speaker
It seems logistically complicated to me.
00:47:37
Speaker
Yeah, there is definitely an opportunity cost living with a man, especially if he's not marriage minded.
00:47:43
Speaker
So that's another thing to keep in mind.
00:47:46
Speaker
If I were to move, I don't, I live by myself currently, even though I've been in a relationship for like two months, we have like talked about
00:47:54
Speaker
Like, oh, should we move in together?
00:47:55
Speaker
I've been like holding off on that because I don't, I don't think I would live with a man again until we're at least engaged because, and then if he wastes my time and makes me be engaged to him for like two years or more than I, any engagement, because yeah, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm, I don't ever want to be in a situation where I'm, where I'm living with a partner for like years and years and, yeah,
00:48:19
Speaker
He's not proposing to me and just sees me as like a forever girlfriend.
00:48:22
Speaker
I've never lived with a man for more than a year at any given time, though.
00:48:26
Speaker
So there is that.
00:48:27
Speaker
There's some mixed research about whether or not cohabitation increases your chance of divorce and decreases your chance of marriage.
00:48:36
Speaker
Most of the studies up until like 2018, 2019 said that cohabitating before marriage both increased your likelihood of divorce as well as decreased your likelihood of getting married in the first place.
00:48:48
Speaker
Or I guess the second one being pretty obvious in that men feel like, oh, why should I buy the calf and get the milk for free?
00:48:54
Speaker
And the first one being that...
00:48:56
Speaker
sometimes prematurely moving in with people creates a false sense of intimacy because you're moving into like, you know, share bills, et cetera.
00:49:02
Speaker
And then you don't actually realize how incompatible you really are.
00:49:07
Speaker
Like it almost creates like inertia rather than like you're actually moving in together because you love each other, you're ready to get married and you feel like you're long-term compatible.
00:49:16
Speaker
So there's a study here I have from like Institute for Family Studies.
00:49:19
Speaker
So it says, you might think the question about the link between premarital cohabitation and force would have been settled long ago, but researchers have been puzzled about it for decades and the puzzling lives on.
00:49:28
Speaker
Part of why the issue draws so much interest is that the vast majority of people believe that living together before marriage should improve the odds of doing well, even though the research has not supported that belief.
00:49:37
Speaker
This is an update on this long-running saga of research on the cohabitation effect.
00:49:41
Speaker
So in 2018, there was a study that conscious of the growing consensus that premarital cohabitation was no longer associated with greater odds of divorce, although it had been associated with poor marital outcomes for decades.
00:49:55
Speaker
And I think some of this is because it's become so common that the risk has been diffused a little bit because the people that used to cohabitate were like, quote-unquote, high-risk people.
00:50:04
Speaker
But now it's become a little bit more common.
00:50:06
Speaker
What do you mean?
00:50:07
Speaker
Wait, what are high-risk people?
00:50:09
Speaker
Meaning people who...
00:50:12
Speaker
were more likely to like not believe in marriage or something like that.
00:50:15
Speaker
Right.
00:50:16
Speaker
Or like people who weren't likely to get married in the first place.
00:50:18
Speaker
Just a piece of paper.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:20
Speaker
Let's do another episode called title.
00:50:23
Speaker
Marriage is not just a piece of paper.
00:50:26
Speaker
It's not, it's not.
00:50:27
Speaker
So it's, it seems like
00:50:28
Speaker
Like now they're seeing that cohabitation before marriage was associated with a lower risk of divorce in the first year of marriage, but a higher risk thereafter.
00:50:35
Speaker
So they noted that living together before marriage should give couples a leg up on the very start of their marriage because there's less of an adjustment to being married and specifically living together.
00:50:43
Speaker
But they found this advantage to be short-lived.
00:50:45
Speaker
Other factors related to experience may take over from there, such as how cohabitation can increase the acceptance of divorce.
00:50:53
Speaker
So, and it's pretty, it's pretty muddy.
00:50:55
Speaker
And maybe we'll go through this, like this article a little bit more detail and parse out what it is, but like there, there's conflicting studies on like what exactly cohabitation does.
00:51:05
Speaker
And then what are the outside factors in each, in, in the particular individuals or in the couple that makes them more likely to get divorced if they're cohabitating or less likely to get married, you know?
00:51:16
Speaker
So the second one is pretty much everyone agrees that if you just,
00:51:19
Speaker
Stay with a guy with no commitment.
00:51:21
Speaker
He's going to keep that ride going for as long as possible.
00:51:23
Speaker
He's going to keep that gravy train for as long as he can.
00:51:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:51:26
Speaker
The first one is a little bit less clear, but like why do couples that cohabitate get divorced more often than the ones that don't?
00:51:32
Speaker
And it could just be that maybe they're religious ones because they don't believe in cohabitating.
00:51:37
Speaker
you know, are more likely to stay married, but it's not conclusive.
00:51:40
Speaker
So, oh yeah.
00:51:41
Speaker
I wanted to talk about, you know, what are the strategies for women if you currently live with your boyfriend and you're in a forever girlfriend situation?
00:51:50
Speaker
I mean, I think move out, to be honest.
00:51:52
Speaker
Like, straight up, yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think you give him an ultimatum, say, like, I'd like to be married by X date.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:00
Speaker
And if that doesn't happen, you bounce.
00:52:03
Speaker
I mean, it's tough because a lot of women will be like, there's the sunken cost fallacy.
00:52:07
Speaker
So they think like, oh, you know, we have so much time together.
00:52:10
Speaker
We've been together for so long.
00:52:11
Speaker
It's so hard to move out at this point, right?
00:52:14
Speaker
That's a strike for cohabitating them because you don't want to get in a situation where you're like, I have to keep investing in this relationship because we've built this whole home together, et cetera.
00:52:22
Speaker
Like you don't want to over invest with no commitment.
00:52:26
Speaker
So big strike against cohabitating is that point exactly to me.
00:52:30
Speaker
Exactly.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:30
Speaker
So I would strongly advise women, you know, if you're in a situation where, you know, you're, you've been cohabitating with a guy for long and you want to be married and he hasn't taken that initiative to propose to you, I would say, yeah, you don't have much other, you don't have any other option realistically other than
00:52:48
Speaker
Continue to put up with not being married and not getting what you want, which obviously not good for women.
00:52:54
Speaker
They have zero leverage then.
00:52:56
Speaker
You have zero leverage once you've moved in with him or the lever or the leverage is going to cost you more because then you'll have to move out.
00:53:02
Speaker
You'll have to actually make a movement.
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:05
Speaker
Like, you have much more power when you're not currently living together, and he has the desire to gain the benefits of having a woman live with him, whereas once you're actually living with him, there's a significant loss posed to you as a woman if you want to move out.
00:53:21
Speaker
So, yeah, and a lot of men, a lot of women do actually give men ultimatums like this, and a lot of the men, like, call their bluff or
00:53:28
Speaker
and then don't propose.
00:53:29
Speaker
And then you're in a situation where, you know, you either have to like follow through on your ultimatum, which then is a considerable cost to you.
00:53:38
Speaker
Or, you know, a lot of women will just like wear their clown makeup and we'll just continue living with a man who,
00:53:43
Speaker
hasn't proposed to them and doesn't want to and when she wants to and you know her needs not being met right so how do you incentivize a guy to keep like dating you so to speak the thing i would be worried about too is like if you start to live together you start to become roommates and he doesn't feel like he has to try anymore either yeah right so that's the other thing you lose that leverage where once you've moved in if he just stops debating the romantic guy and starts treating you like a roommate
00:54:08
Speaker
Then how do you, you're not his wife, you're his girlfriend technically, but.
00:54:13
Speaker
Again, this is why I've had a lot of situations where I've lived with a guy for less than a year.
00:54:18
Speaker
I've never lived with a guy for more than a year because usually he gets too comfortable or he stops putting in as much effort and then I leave.
00:54:26
Speaker
And then he usually gets like, oh, sad and texts me months or years later crying and begging me to come back.
00:54:31
Speaker
And I'm like, no, you had your chance and you fumbled it.
00:54:34
Speaker
So it is what it is.
00:54:35
Speaker
And here's the thing is a lot of men don't even realize what they've got until it's gone.
00:54:39
Speaker
And so, you know, nothing you can say to him in the moment will realize your value.
00:54:44
Speaker
you know, until he, until you actually leave and then he loses you.
00:54:49
Speaker
And then he's like, oh shit, I had a really good thing going.
00:54:51
Speaker
And like, now I don't have that thing going anymore.
00:54:54
Speaker
So, you know, that's just sort of the tragedy of cohabitation, but it is what it is.
00:54:58
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:54:59
Speaker
It's almost like you have to let them know the benefits before you get in, because if you don't make that benefit cost them something, then it becomes an entitlement for men.
00:55:07
Speaker
And that's the scary thing about cohabitating.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, men have to know happy wife, happy life.
00:55:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:13
Speaker
So if you know, I'm sort of the sort of woman where it's like, if he makes an effort to make me happy, his life will be awesome.
00:55:21
Speaker
If he doesn't make me happy, then his life is not going to be as awesome.
00:55:24
Speaker
And so he's very much incentivized to make my life awesome.
00:55:27
Speaker
That's what a partnership is.
00:55:28
Speaker
Like you have to be motivated to make that other person happy and you have to be motivated to work as a team.
00:55:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
And like I said, I think my experience with my, some of my friends who live with guys is that sometimes they are not, they're lived together, but they're not really a team.
00:55:42
Speaker
They're like roommates.
00:55:44
Speaker
And like I said, live in mommy McBang made where he's kind of doing his thing.
00:55:48
Speaker
And she's just taking on that, like all that wifey role and wifey stuff.
00:55:52
Speaker
And he's never made a commitment to her.
00:55:53
Speaker
Some, some of these guys just flat out live like they're single.
00:55:57
Speaker
you know, I don't know, going out to the club.
00:56:03
Speaker
And so I just, I feel like I would be really, really hard pressed to move in the man who didn't have a timeframe for a committed legal, legally committed relationship.
00:56:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:12
Speaker
So I definitely advise women only live with a man if you're getting
00:56:19
Speaker
If you're actually benefiting from it, like don't sign up to be a mommy McBang maid.
00:56:22
Speaker
He has to pull his weight in order for it to be worth it.
00:56:25
Speaker
If he is pulling his weight and he is investing in you and he is making an effort to make you happy, then yeah, it's a wonderful, mutually beneficial thing.
00:56:33
Speaker
But if he's not doing that, then don't.
00:56:35
Speaker
Right.
00:56:36
Speaker
Agreed.
00:56:36
Speaker
It's that simple.
00:56:37
Speaker
All right.
Closing and Engagement Encouragement
00:56:38
Speaker
That's our show.
00:56:39
Speaker
Check out our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com, our newly updated website.
00:56:44
Speaker
So we don't have a ton of content on there yet, but we're working towards getting some more stuff up there.
00:56:49
Speaker
So check that out.
00:56:51
Speaker
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00:56:56
Speaker
Also can chat with us about this episode on Discord.
00:56:59
Speaker
And check us out on Twitter at femdatstrat.
00:57:01
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens, and for all you scrotes out there.
00:57:05
Speaker
We're bringing all our shit over, and you got to accommodate it.
00:57:07
Speaker
That's just how it works.
00:57:08
Speaker
Yeah, if you have to put up with our shit, it is what it is.
00:57:10
Speaker
Those are the rules.
00:57:11
Speaker
Die mad.
00:57:12
Speaker
See you next week.