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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - California & Colorado
128 Plays4 years ago
Continuing through the USA on our Summer Road Trip, we have two stops again tonight! I have our times stamped below for each state - but these episodes are full of opinions which we all have so please tell us yours!
Faith is in California (the Keddie Cabin) for 1:49 - 40:38
Lisa is in Colorado (Isabelle Guzman) for 40:44 through the end
We would LOVE to year from you (good, bad, indifferent, whatever!) twistedtalestruecrime@gmail.com
or pop by Instagram (@twistedtales_pod) or Facebook (TwistedTales True Crime) as I know California has a few items I'll be posting through the week.
Thanks for taking time our of your day to spend with us and drive safe!
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Transcript
Introduction and Greetings
00:00:01
Speaker
Good morning, and thanks for tuning in to Twisted Tales. And afternoon and evening, depending on where you're at right now. And even though it'll be past, happy Memorial Day. To those that celebrate it. To those that celebrate it. It is the US custom we do have outside US listeners. We get the day off. We do get the day off, which is why we're recording in the morning with all the lawn care maintenance. Nanas and puppas out there mowing their lawns. So it's awesome. I apologize if you can hear that. Hopefully you can't.
California Road Trip and Keddie Murders
00:00:30
Speaker
All right, we are continuing on with our summer road trip. And then now it is a pattern or whatever, because it's been twice. Yup. Rock, paper, scissors. For who wins? Starts. One, two, three, shoot. Boom. Dang. One, two, three, shoot. Ha ha, Ty. Why did you think you won with paper against scissors? Because you always start with scissors. So I meant to do rock, because I knew I beat you. Oh, yeah, my repetition. And I did paper. You got really.
00:01:00
Speaker
Did you have some more of that Red Bull? Alright, last one. One, two, three, shoot! One, two, three, shoot! One, two, three, shoot! We've tied a lot, but we're on it. One, two, three, shoot! Dang it!
00:01:16
Speaker
Okay, and look who's going first I'm gonna go first and I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest you guys I am NOT good with spelling and I just realized today that when I We were going outside alphabetical order that first time when I started off with Alabama. That was true alphabetical order. I
00:01:33
Speaker
And nobody called me out on it, so apparently we don't have that many followers yet. Or they can't spell either. And if you're just now catching on to that, and we're like way past it, it's too late to say anything. Listen, guys, we got that Tennessee edumacation going, so just bear with us. There we go. All right. I am good at faith. I will start out today in California, and I made a blunder.
Sheila's Discovery and Investigation Challenges
00:02:02
Speaker
Because California, I'm gonna be honest with you, is a hard state, because there's so many serial killers, and these are supposed to be mini episodes, even though mine turned out into full blown, like, shindigs. So I didn't want to do any of the major serial killers, so I picked one that I thought was good, and it's been covered a lot, so I'm sure most of you have heard this story, but hopefully Lisa has it. Have you heard of the Keddie cabin murders? Keddie what? Keddie cabin murders. You know, I don't know that I have.
00:02:32
Speaker
But I kind of don't, I don't go by the whole titles of things. It'll just sound familiar halfway through. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right. Well, after today, you will have heard of the Kettie cabin workers. Sweet. All right. So we're going to start our story. November, 1980, um, 36 year old Glenna Sue Sharp moved herself and her five kids from Connecticut to a tiny town in California called Kettie.
00:02:57
Speaker
Kettie is described as sort of a rundown resort area. They've got all these tiny little cabins close together. I kind of think of Gatlinburg are like Airbnb mountain cabins, but just like squished together. And I've actually got a picture of her cabin, and I'll post that to our Facebook and our Instagram. I don't get to see it now. Nope. I didn't bring that for you. So just visualize a bunch of little cabins squished together.
00:03:23
Speaker
So she and her kids moved there after she divorced her husband, James. Her kids are 15-year-old John, 14-year-old Sheila, 12-year-old Tina, 10-year-old Rick, and five-year-old Greg. Wow, she got a handful. Yeah, three boys, two girls. So all six of them shared this tiny little cabin. Sue, Sheila, and Tina shared a bedroom. So the mom and the two daughters shared a bedroom and the boys shared a bedroom.
00:03:49
Speaker
So the family settled into cabin number 28, and even though this was supposed to be like a temporary arrangement, she's trying to get her feet underneath her, the kids pretty much quickly settled down and made roots. There were tons of kids in all these little cabins, so they made tons of friends. So April 11th, 1981, just five months after they relocated, things took a really, really dark turn for this family.
00:04:16
Speaker
Um, that evening of April 11th, Sheila was spending the night at a cabin just, you know, next door with her friend, Alyssa. And while teenage girls need absolutely no prompting to have a sleepover, at least I didn't.
00:04:32
Speaker
One thing that always prompted me to go to Sheena's house when I was in middle school, instead of Sheena coming to my house, is if my brothers had friends over. Like I'm out, especially younger brothers. So, Sheila's cabin was full that night. Sue was at home watching her youngest sons, Rick and Greg, and they had a friend named Justin Sharp, who was spending the night. Tina went next door to hang out with Alyssa and Sheila for a little bit, but then,
00:05:02
Speaker
She went home. Why? She didn't spend the night with the other two girls. I'm assuming because you're my annoying little sister, right? She got home around 10 o'clock that night. And finally the oldest son, John had been out with his friend, Dana wine gate, and they both came home to hang out before going to bed. The next morning, early Sunday morning, Sheila got up.
00:05:24
Speaker
and went home to get ready for church, just like she usually would. And when she opened the door to her cabin, I just imagine her like freezing and everything just like suspended for like five seconds and then her just like dropping everything and turning and running. So she opens the door and it's a slasher film. Immediately she sees blood everywhere.
00:05:55
Speaker
Two boys are dead, and there's a third body dead with a blanket covered over it. So she turns around and runs 15 feet back to her friend's Alyssa's house to get help. Alyssa's cabin did not have a landline. Remember, these are tiny little cabins. It's more rundown, so probably lower economical statuses. Plus, it's 81. I don't know how prevalent things were back then.
00:06:22
Speaker
They only had landlines. So Alyssa's parents run to the resort office to call the police. And I've heard a lot of different. Some say Alyssa's dad went back to the cabin. Most places say Sheila and Alyssa's older brother went back to her cabin.
00:06:40
Speaker
And some people are like, well, why would you send the kids? I doubt that they were like, go back. That Sheila's family. Like she knows three people are for sure dead, but she's got the rest of her family. So they go back, but they're not stupid about it. Like they walk around the back of the cabin, peeking in windows. And when they get to the back bedroom and they peek in there, it's a miracle.
00:07:02
Speaker
because her two youngest brothers Ricky and Greg and their friend Justin Sharp are still fast asleep in the bed completely unharmed. Okay so okay so they have not seen mom yet. They knock on the door they knock on the window get these boys up get them out of the house through the window
00:07:24
Speaker
so that these little boys don't have to see the carnage of the front of the house. Right. And when I say carnage, I mean absolute carnage. Deputy Hank Clement was the first person on the scene and he said it was an absolute bloodbath.
00:07:39
Speaker
He actually said that if Sheila actually walked into the house and saw that, he doesn't know how she's ever going to get past seeing what she saw. There's blood on the floor. There's blood on the walls. There's blood on the ceiling. It's everywhere. It's straight everywhere. You said it was the two oldest brothers, right? Two oldest brothers and their friend. No, no, the oldest brother, sorry, the oldest brother, John, his friend, Dana, wine gate. And then there's a third body. They do not know who it is covered with a blanket.
00:08:07
Speaker
OK, so then they were what, 15? Is that what you said the oldest was? The oldest was 15. Yes, she will occur. So a kid. And his friends got to be around the same age. So two kids and then there's a there's another body with nobody knows. OK, so. The deputy clinic said there are obvious signs of a struggle or a fight. The walls had even been gouged with knives.
00:08:36
Speaker
like so that's what she saw early Sunday morning is blood everywhere. And they said here, let me just let me give you an accurate picture of what she saw. And she walked in because the police officer said that when you walk in, the first thing you saw by the door was her oldest her older brother john. And his dead body was face up covered in blood. His throat was slashed.
00:09:02
Speaker
His body was bound with medical tape and electrical wires. His feet were tied, again by electrical wires, connecting to his feet were connected to his friend, Dana Winegate, who's face was completely smashed in. His skull was fractured, like his skull was crushed in.
00:09:24
Speaker
There's strangulation marks around his neck and his body was also bound all the way up and down, feet bound to his friend and he's lying face down. So that's what she saw when she walked into the house.
00:09:37
Speaker
for a 15-year-old kids? Yeah. 15? Yeah. What could they have possibly done to you? But can you imagine being what? She was 14, 13, 14. That's her older brother. Oh, you would be scarred for life. Yeah. That's what she saw with the blood and the fighting and everything else. So a few more feet into the room.
00:10:00
Speaker
The third body is seen and at first glance, it does appear to be a woman. There's a blanket like just tossed over the body. And I've seen a lot of reports say that it, like, you know how sometimes, especially like, sorry, this is, you know, where my references are like criminal minds or SBU, they like say that they covered the body. So that is not what this was. Okay. The blanket was like just tossed.
00:10:25
Speaker
like halfway covering her. There was no like nicely placing concealing. It was almost like they just threw it and that's where it landed. So the body was that of Sheila's mother Sue. She was found lying on her side naked from the waist down. Her own underwear and a blue bandana shoved into her mouth secured around, secured by medical tape that went around her head with her hands and feet also being bound by electrical cord and blood just pulling all around her.
00:10:54
Speaker
So the investigators said the way that everything looked like the pools of blood, the bodies had obviously been drug into this room, into this front room. Beatings and murders took place. They're not really sure, but there was blood everywhere all the way back to Sue's bedroom on her bed. So even the bottom of their feet had blood on it. So it's like they walked or were shuffled like they were forced to walk in their own pools of blood.
Suspects and Theories
00:11:24
Speaker
at one point, the police went further into the house and they came across what appeared to be the actual murder weapons, right? So you walk in, there's the two dead bodies, the other dead body, you're headed to the kitchen right outside the kitchen. There's a bent steak knife covered in blood. And then right outside the kitchen door, like on this little wooden table, there is a bloody butcher knife and a bloody claw, claw hammer.
00:11:51
Speaker
Oh my gosh. But there were no signs of forced entry. All the lights were off. Doors were locked. So that's where we are right now. And if you're keeping track.
00:12:02
Speaker
You'll kind of already cut onto this. If not, let's review. Sheila's mother, Sue, murdered. Sheila's brother, John, murdered. John's friend, Dana Wingate, was murdered. Sheila's brother, Rick, rescued through the window. Sheila's brother, Greg, rescued through the window. Rick's friend, Justin Sharp, rescued through the window. Where's the younger sister? 12-year-old Tina, gone. OK. All right. There's no sign that nothing.
00:12:32
Speaker
So now the police of this little small town in Kettie not only have three murders to solve, but there's also a missing minor to locate. And since Kettie is a small town, definitely not equipped to handle this kind of situation. They're not used to it. It's a very low crime town. For the most part, they immediately call in the FBI, the State Department of Justice for help.
00:12:57
Speaker
while waiting for them to get there. They don't just sit on their laurels. They immediately go door to door trying to see if anyone saw or heard anything the night before. Now remember, these cabins are close together. It only took somebody heard something. It only took 15 feet for Sheila to run next door to the neighbor's house to get them. So they're all closed. You would think someone heard something and wrong. No one heard anything.
00:13:23
Speaker
No one reported seeing anything. The only thing that they could find is a neighbor were woken up because they heard what they described was kind of like muffled screams, but it was really low. It wasn't like a guttural. They just assumed someone was watching TV, went back to sleep. And in their defense, Sheila was, did have her own underwear and the bandana shoved in her mouth gagged. So they, I mean, there was nothing to hear. Um,
00:13:52
Speaker
Otter, the three boys were in the house, asleep in the back bedroom, and they heard and saw nothing. And remember, that scene was brutal. So how was there no noise? They said that it went all the way from the bathroom to the front. There's blood everywhere. The walls have been stabbed. And they didn't hear a thing to wake them up. Like, I get heavy sleepers. I'm a deep sleeper.
00:14:20
Speaker
but not in all three of them sleep like the dad. Like none of them woke up. None of them are you and Frankie type sleepers that wake up at a cricket party. Well, somebody gave them some kind of medicine to put them to sleep. That is that, that has been theorized on. Yes. Maybe they were drug, but we just don't know. So, um, by Sunday afternoon, there's a full search team in place consisting of multiple departments and people. They're doing grid search and they're trying to find number one priority at this point is Tina.
00:14:49
Speaker
Right, 12 year old missing girl are anything that points to her, the killer's identity, literally anything to go on at this point. On Monday morning, the police and the FBI put out a notice across the three surrounding counties and in the Reno with a description of Tina. And they also alert all the hospitals in those areas to be lookout for anyone that appears with cuts, scrapes, scratches, anything that could be suspicious and involved.
00:15:17
Speaker
The three boys are interrogated again, just to see if they can remember anything. They recalled it, nothing. But they are all young kids. One's five, one's 10, and the other, Justin Sharp, is their friend. So he's going to probably be about 10, 11. So they actually put the three boys, they interviewed them under hypnosis to see if maybe they blocked anything out. Like it was just too traumatic.
00:15:42
Speaker
Justin Sharp, the boy's friend, did reveal something under hypnosis. He had a really strange dream the night of the murders.
00:15:50
Speaker
He was on a big boat, like the Love Boat, some people say, which was like an old show back in the day. But he was on this boat with Sue, his two friends, and the two older boys. And while on this boat, two men get into a fight with John and Dana, the brother and his friend, and throws them overboard. And then he said one of the men was holding a pocket knife and a hammer, and he used the knife to cut across Sue's chest before both men escaped on a life raft.
00:16:19
Speaker
Okay, so there are some things that correlate with what actually happened the murder. They put Justin was put under hypnosis the second time and this time he talked about Tina. He says he saw Tina come out of the back room during the attack on her mother Sue holding a blanket. One man rips the blanket away from her and throws it.
00:16:40
Speaker
and takes Tina outside. The man comes back inside by himself without Tina rips a hunting knife out of the wall and then goes back outside again. So this is literally the only thing the police have to go on is this this kid's under hypnosis trying to give you a yeah so but it's enough there there's two men in the in the in there so they
00:17:07
Speaker
They get the kid to sit down with a sketch artist, do a composite sketch of the two men in his dream and release that. I feel like I remember this now. Yeah, release that just to be like a, hey, this is, these are people of interest, but they don't tell anybody it was under him notes.
00:17:22
Speaker
because Tina is still missing without a single trace of evidence, mind you, it's starting to look like maybe she was the target all along, which would make sense. She's a 12 year old girl. And if someone came in to get her, her mom and her older brother are going to fight like hell. Yeah. And by association, John's older friend, Dana is going to fight to protect this little girl.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, because she's a 12 year old little girl, right? So it makes sense that they would be fighting trying to keep this little girl safe. The number one suspect on all police radars is obviously. Dad, it's always the dad, suzak's husband.
00:18:02
Speaker
The reason Sue divorced him and went halfway across the country with her five children is because she was running from an abusive relationship. Nice. Sheila, the daughter, actually told investigation team that her father physically abused her mother for several years, but that wasn't all. He'd also sexually abused both herself and her sister Tina for several years before the mother was able to, before the mother found out and escaped.
00:18:29
Speaker
And not only did the father sexually abuse both girls, but Tino was his favorite. Nice, okay. So the police are trying to find him. Frickin' you. Yeah. But they don't have to look really hard, because guess who's in kettie? Oh my god. Dad! He came immediately after he heard of the murders. Obviously. Um...
00:18:51
Speaker
But apparently, that is correct. James is in the Navy. They checked. He was on base the night of the murder. So while he is a piece of crap and should be locked up, he did not do these murders. The next logical thing, and really hold on to your seats now because dad was bad, right? Next logical and equally upsetting person of interest is Tina's teacher.
00:19:20
Speaker
This guy was known to be a little, quote unquote, too friendly with the students. Nice. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, apparently, Lisa, he had framed photos of Tina on his desk. That's weird. And no one had a problem with this. That's what I'm wondering. No one was like, Hey, pause. That's my kid, dude. Why do you only have one 12 year old girl? But that's not your niece.
00:19:46
Speaker
God, that poor kid, man. So, I just really, I have a problem that apparently this was all known and he was still a teacher and everyone's just fine. Right, right.
00:19:58
Speaker
However, he had an alibi that checked out it checked out too So while he's not a murder in my humble opinion, which everyone gets to hear because it's my podcast He needed to be seriously investigated and at the minimum fired at the maximum probably locked up, right? I would agree 110%. There's just a line that you don't cross when it comes to other people's children
00:20:18
Speaker
You don't frame a 12 year old girls pictures that you have no relation to. Yeah, not even that, but that'd be the only one. Like it'd be one thing if he had pictures of like his classes throughout the years or even if like, you know what I mean? Captain of something and she was on the team and he had like team different. Right. Just her picture frame. That's creepy.
00:20:35
Speaker
You think? That's super freaking creepy. Um, so yeah. So over the next few days, police say they have hundreds of tips that come in and even with all the additional help, they're basically running in circles, chasing their proverbial tails at this point, getting absolutely nowhere. Right. On Monday, the lab confirms that both the hammer and the knife found at the scene are the murder weapons. I really think I kind of know where this is going. We'll still talk about it.
00:21:01
Speaker
Along with that, the coroner's report that all three bodies were stabbed multiple times and had multiple blows to the head. Thankfully, the autopsy did not show any sexual assault suit at the time of death was placed between 11 p.m. to 2 a.m. I don't know why they they left her naked. If the only thing I could think of, she was kind of sleeping that way. Yeah. Yeah. I sleep in like a tank top and and and and boxers or shorts or underwear or whatever. Like I don't get hot at night. Yeah.
00:21:31
Speaker
So if they placed underwear in her mouth to gag her, that might have been why there weren't any pants on. Like a big deal was made about this, but logically. They were just whoever did this was just looking for something. So at this point, all the searches by air and ground with and without dog, everything has come up absolutely empty. There's no trace of the murders. There's no trace of Tina. And sadly, by April 20th, the search is just basically grinding to a halt. And they've got nothing to go on.
00:22:01
Speaker
Tina could be anywhere. Now, police do take an interest in a local cabin owner. His name is Marty Sharp, and he just so happens to look a lot like one of the men in the sketches from Justin under hypnosis. So Justin Sharp gave the description, and one of the men looked like Marty Sharp. Notice anything there? Yes. Dad, maybe.
00:22:28
Speaker
It's a stepfather. Now there are two main theories on why this man looked like his stepfather. The first is Justin actually saw his stepfather that night and is trying to cover for him. The second is Justin's a young kid. He's scared. He's going to a traumatic and he's literally trying to describe someone that he doesn't know and it ends up he's describing the only man he knows and that's a stepfather. Which is, you know, I can get that. Marty Sharp, however, is not a good guy.
00:22:58
Speaker
Naturally. He's a vet with a criminal past who is still being treated for PTSD and basically described by all who knew him as a douche canoe. A douche canoe. Okay. They didn't say that. That's my word, but nothing good is said about him. So I'm summing it all up in douche canoe. Canoe full of douche guys.
00:23:17
Speaker
So people investigate, talk about Marty during one of the articles they read on this, and he said to have a horrid temple, temper, sorry, horrid temper, and was abusive to not only his wife, but his steps up. So I'm going to add a number three reason why the sketch looks like his stepfather. Marty saw it, but is so afraid of the man.
00:23:38
Speaker
he can't say and under hypnosis he makes up this elaborate story right trying to out the man but he doesn't but if he if he says Marty's a suspect like he saw Marty do something and Marty gets out that's him in his mom's life yeah honestly there were stories of his abuse where he threatened his wife with a knife during one argument and Sheila actually stated in an interview once that she watched Marty try to run over Justin and his mom Marianne with his car so peach of a guy
00:24:08
Speaker
There are also two big rumors that are floating around everywhere is that Marty and Sue were having an affair. Okay. Which I don't buy. No. Because the other one makes more sense to me. Well, why would you leave one abusive relationship to see another abusive relationship and be like, Hey, I want that. Yeah. The other one is, um, Sue befriended.
00:24:30
Speaker
Marianne, Marty's wife, and was trying to help her with a plan to escape Marty with her son. Because remember, this is what she, five months ago, she did this. Right. So she knows the signs, she knows the symptoms of a battered wife, abused wife. So she's trying to help get this lady out of this situation. Personally, that's the one I'm going with. If either of those are even true. Because at this point, all we have is small town gossip and rumors, which you know, spread and grow and
00:24:56
Speaker
That's it, that's all they have. None of, I do find it important to mention, none of this is ever proved. He was never said as a wife beater, this is all just what everybody in the town says. And all the interviews say.
Marty and Bo: Suspects and Mafia Connections
00:25:07
Speaker
All speculation. So back to the story. Because the photos look so much like Marty, and there's at least a lot of talk in town, please want to have a little chat with Marty, obviously. But they don't just want to chat with Marty.
00:25:22
Speaker
Marty has got a buddy that is living there with he and his family that he met at the VA a few weeks ago, who's also a vet. And his name is John Bobadera. John Bobadera. He goes by Bo. We're calling him Bo. Going with Bo. Bo. So these two are right now top suspects and everyone's mine. During questioning, Marty tells the police like they're going through their interrogation, right? Yeah. And Marty's like, oh, hey, by the way,
00:25:50
Speaker
I just bought a really nice claw hammer, but you need to know it was stolen. Had a blue handle. This is the brand. Like, like basically filing a, filing a police report right there for his, uh, quote unquote stolen hammer, right? Wow. Okay. And so some people like, it doesn't match the hammer that was found on the scene, but some people, some of the podcasts and stuff that discovered this, and I think it's a good theory.
00:26:12
Speaker
Marty doesn't know where that hammer is. Did he leave it at the house? Did he leave it in the trail? They don't know. Right. So he's like, Oh, Hey, by the way, this is stolen. I just bought it, but it's gone. So right. Super suspect. Um, please question both men, but both men have an alibi. Of course. But let me tell you their alibi. They were together with Marty's wife at a local dive bar. Do you know what a dive bar is?
00:26:39
Speaker
Not really. No. Swinger's club kind of thing. No, a dive bar is like one of those hole in the wall. Jukebox are like little small live bands like for Richards used to be here locally. Like it's just a grungy, dirty bar that has like a local band playing like nothing special. You can basically go in house slippers and you fit the like clientele. Right. Okay. Right. So they were at this dive bar. So the police go and ask everybody, you know, that were there last night, get an accounting to see if they remember seeing Marty and Beau.
00:27:10
Speaker
Everybody remembers seeing Marty and Beau. They came to this local dive bar and they were wearing three-piece suits and sunglasses. Wow, so they really just wanted to stand out? They really wanted to stand out, that's right. Not only did they stand out in their appearance, but around 10 o'clock that night,
00:27:27
Speaker
Marty caused like this huge scene because they switched the music. Like it was playing rock and they switched to country or vice versa, whatever. They switched the music and he like threw down yelling, basically, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me. I'm mad. I'm leaving slam. But that wasn't enough. Marty was so upset about this music chain that when he got home, he called them to tell them he was at his house and he was still mad about the music.
00:27:55
Speaker
and they needed to change the music back. Okay. So he's now planning out this alibi. Yeah. So now he's at home, but then apparently after a little bit, Marty and Bo come back to the bar and stay till closing. And they're three piece suits. No.
00:28:14
Speaker
regular clothes. So let's just recap. They go into this dingy bar wearing a look at me clothes. Yep. They left with a huge scene just to make sure everyone knew they were there. Yep. They went home and called to complain letting the bar owner know they went home and were at home and they were still upset. And then they came back later like everything was fine. In different clothes. And this is normal. Apparently so because they were never called into interrogation again.
00:28:43
Speaker
Are you serious? They were even allowed to move out of Kettie just a few weeks later and relocate to Reno. When asked about this situation, uh, the sheriff assured them, anyone who's going to, are you about to tell me that this case has gone unsolved? Marty passed a lie detector. Okay, ma'am. He is not the suspect. Oh, good old lie detector. So by September, 1981, the investigation was completely dead in the waters, both the murders and the abduction of Tina. And this is how it stayed for the next three years.
00:29:13
Speaker
Then, April 1984, the police get a call. A man was about 50 miles outside of Kettie collecting garbage and bottles and whatever collectors do, and he came across a portion of a human skull.
00:29:28
Speaker
Please don't tell me it was Tina. So the police go out immediately and they find most of the skull, the jaw bones, some other bones, but find enough to be able to send in for dental records. While they're waiting, they receive a 911 call from a man. And basically this is what it says. I mean, this is like, you can, you can pull and listen to this 911 call.
00:29:53
Speaker
I was just wondering if, if you all thought about that murder up in Keddie up in Plumas County a couple of years ago where that 12 year old girl was never found. You think about that with the skull and the person getting the call basically says, you know, we, we kind of think this skull belongs to a young boy about 10 year olds that went missing. And, uh, the caller actually says, well,
00:30:16
Speaker
I think it's probably that girls, but if you say it's a girl or not, if you say it's a boy, not a girl, you'd know best I guess, huh? And that's the end of the call. What? So a lot of people think that that was the murderer basically calling in saying, Hey, you caught us or you caught, you caught her because it wasn't until a few days later, um, did they find out that it actually, the skull actually was Tina. Um,
00:30:46
Speaker
The dental records came back and confirmed that it was Tina's shot. It was Tina's. Do they have any idea like when she died? Well, we'll get there. There's several different timeframes given about Tina. First, the sheriff comes out and states that time of death is around six months after the murder. Then the sheriff expands the time saying it could be anywhere from the time of the murders up until the last year. That's a big variation. That's three years.
00:31:17
Speaker
But it's still not known when she died, why she was taking, and how she died. Nothing. There's nothing known at all. But just like the actual murders, there are a lot of tips and nothing solid to stand on. The case blew up in the news again. So everybody's calling in saying, I think this, I think that, I saw this, I saw that. But it's just like the original murders. They chase their tails. They get absolutely nowhere. No results, no nothing.
00:31:45
Speaker
So it goes called again. The surviving sharp kids, Sheila, Rick, and Greg spend their lives in foster care. And every anniversary they remember. I mean, Sheila has to remember like every time that day rolls around because she walked into that scene. In 1996, 15 years later, a man named Robert Silvera Jr. Actually, he's arrested on several other murders and he confesses to the Keddie cabin killer.
00:32:15
Speaker
But after doing a quick check, they find out he was actually in jail the day of the murders, so there's no way it was him. It's another dead end. Another crazy person trying to claim. 14 more years go by. 14. At this point, the cabin has been torn down. Due to age, it wasn't in the greatest shape in the first place. Most people forget the murders, except those that were affected by it. Marty and Beau were actually dead at this point.
00:32:46
Speaker
Like nothing. 2013, 32 years later, a special investigator named Mike takes over the cold case. And this is not his first time on this case or hearing about it. He was actually a deputy right around the times before the murders and he got fired. The murders happened.
00:33:10
Speaker
He got hired back right after, but was barred from being in the investigation in any way. Why? That's my thing. They have all hands on deck. They have the FBI called in all these people called in and they say, but you're not allowed to help. That's that's weird. That's sketchy. He was friends with the oldest brother John. Friendly knew him. Mike spends the next three years going over every aspect of the case start to finish.
00:33:38
Speaker
And he finds some extremely interesting things along the way. So let's talk about things that Mike found in this investigation, which is at this point a 32 year old old case. The cabin was not secured right away. People were able to come in and out of the cabin. The police set up no roadblock to the one road that goes in and out of Getty. One road, no roadblock. He found a lot of procedural errors.
00:34:08
Speaker
and evidence that seemed to have been buried or just forgotten about. Like, you know that 911 call? That had the man calling in to save all those weird things? He found that in a sealed envelope in the bottom of one of the evidence boxes. Was never brought out to have people listen to, never put through like any kind of testing, just thrown in the bottom of a box to be forgotten. The biggest thing is,
00:34:38
Speaker
Marty and Bo, when they left, Marty left a letter to his wife when he left, Mary Ann. And this is a, this is, the whole letter has never been released, but this is a statement from the letter verbatim. I've paid the price of your love and now I've bought it with the price of four people's lives. What? That's thrown in the bottom of an evidence box. Never released, never talked about. The letter was never actually entered into evidence, just put in the evidence box.
00:35:07
Speaker
and included with evidence but never like documents. So the more Mike digs, the more he sees that Marty confessed several times to this murder. Marty's old VA counselor gets in touch with Mike and tells him that Marty confessed in Reno just a few weeks after fleeing Kettie that he did the murders. And the counselor called
00:35:32
Speaker
and reported this to the Department of Justice back in 1981 when Marty confessed. And they just didn't do anything? Well, there's the thing. The Department of Justice that was involved in this case was not any kind of homicide. They were actually the organized crime unit of the Department of Justice. That strike is weird? Yeah. Yeah, it does.
00:35:59
Speaker
So a lot of things that people have theorized, speculated, speculating dug up is that Bo had ties to the Chicago mafia. And one of the biggest theories, it is an unproof theory, but Mike even kind of leans towards this theory is that, um, Bo, while he wasn't in like Witsack, he was, he was a informant on the Chicago mafia back in the early eighties.
00:36:28
Speaker
He relocated the small town to hide out. And when everything went down and he and his buddy killed this family, basically, the Department of Justice left it under the rug because they were after bigger fish, which sadly is a plausible, very plausible theory. In 2016,
00:36:51
Speaker
We're in 2016 now. Mike, um, went public with everything in his case, not his theories, but all the evidence he's found, the things he's seen and a local junk collector called in stating he actually found a hammer in the woods right outside of petty a couple of years ago. And he just threw it in the lake. Um, when they find it matches Mike's quote unquote stolen hammer. Yep.
00:37:15
Speaker
It's been in the weather for how many years now, 40 years? So there's no way they can pull any evidence or anything off of it. But in 2018, it's just a few years ago, they are able to finally get a piece of DNA off the tape that was on the tape wrapped around Sue's head. They're able to get a piece of DNA. But whose DNA is that? You tell me. No clue.
00:37:44
Speaker
We don't know all that the police will say. It is a living suspect. Someone who is still alive. There's a suspect. And that's the end. Wow. Nobody knows. They actually still have a tip line in the Pluma County Sheriff's Department at 5 3 0 2 8 3 6 3 6 0 because the police are hoping that it's been so long.
00:38:10
Speaker
that someone will finally have a conscience and call an Intel like it was a kid that knew of something or their parents did something. But they at this point they've got this DNA evidence but they don't have enough evidence I guess to make an arrest.
00:38:24
Speaker
So that's it. But then if we go based on the other story, how do we know that the sheriff's department didn't come in at some point and just create that scene? Well, it's it's not proven, which is why I didn't like talk like super big about it. But the original sheriff that was on this case was said to be really, really good friends with Marty. Oh, my God. Like Marty went on ride along with this guy. Like they were tight. Like, but why even?
00:38:52
Speaker
I'm sorry, I hate to say it, but if you ever committed something, I'd be like, bus, faith, bye. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'll send you some money for the commensary, dude. Right. Yeah. And by the way, never want to speak to you again. You're crazy. Yeah, no. So that's the kettie cabin murders. It is still through this day. It is, it is May 2022 and unsolved. That's insane. I'm telling you, I mean gut, gut check. Marty and Beau did it. Absolutely. 100%. Absolutely.
00:39:22
Speaker
but the fact that they got to live out the rest of their life. Look at how weird their behavior was that night. They went, they left, they called and said they were at home. They went 30 feet across the cabins, murdered them, took Tina and did God knows what with her for God knows how long until they killed her. But they, they stored Tina somewhere, went back to the bar to have a few drinks and it's like nothing ever happened. That's the sketchy part for me too. Like,
00:39:48
Speaker
You took this little girl and I do mean little girl. She's 12. She's a child. Like what? I mean, they could have killed her automatically, but why not leave her at the cabin? That's the only thing that like in my mind is horrific is that I hope they killed her quickly. Yeah. But why not leave her at the cabin? Why take her if. Because I think some ungodly things happen. That's my fear. I mean, that's what sits at the pit of my stomach. Yeah.
00:40:13
Speaker
That's just so wrong, man. So that is my story from California. Awesome. Had you heard it? No, I actually thought it was the weird girl, but I don't even know where it happened from where she like killed her own family. Oh, yeah. No, that was I don't even know where it was from. Well, there's probably a lot of places you're thinking of is probably the one up in Canada. Oh, OK. So all right. Well, let's take a quick breather and we will get ready for the next episode.
00:40:39
Speaker
And we're back. Hey, guys, it's my turn, Lisa.
Isabella Guzman Case: Murder and Insanity Plea
00:40:44
Speaker
I'm going to talk to you about a case that is kind of well known. But I have a lot of opinions. We both have a lot of opinions about everything. So let's go. I'm sure I will. So we're yeah, we're just going to jump right in August 28, 2013. Oh, recent. Pretty recent. Oh, mine are the way back. Yeah. Yours are always in the way back machine, but you always find the weird ones. So I try. I try. I know you're good.
00:41:10
Speaker
Just after 10 p.m., police get called to a family dispute. The police say that they diffuse the situation and they left. So it was pretty clear cut.
00:41:23
Speaker
Family dispute, yeah, yeah, whatever. And they, everything was honky-donkey, so they left, right? They just went and got donuts and lied. Pretty much, yeah. I don't know. That's where I feel like this is going. That was kind of messed up, but I don't know, you know, whatever. We love cops. We do love cops. Goodness. All right. So not long after the police were, uh, not long after that, the police got called again and they showed up back to the same house to a very horrific scene. See, that's why I say they didn't go the first time they lied. No, they went. They showed up. The first time? Yeah, they showed up.
00:41:54
Speaker
All right. You say so. How much time they found in these two calls? Um, I'm pretty sure like maybe an hour or two. It was not a substantially long time. Oh, wow. Got faith syndrome going on right now. I'm going to buy a vowel. Yeah, I do want to buy a vowel. Oh, so. They like I said, they found a pretty horrendous scene.
00:42:23
Speaker
They found 47-year-old Young High Moy dead in her bathtub with what appeared to be stopped. Oh, good. Yeah. So according to the neighbor with the weed eater, he just kept getting closer. I hope you guys can hear me. I'm kind of really close to the mic, so I don't know if I'm drowning everybody else out or I don't know, but we'll see. According to Ryan Hoy, who was alive at this point, which is Young High's husband, he heard screaming coming from upstairs and he ran to the bathroom.
00:42:54
Speaker
When he opened the door, it was slammed back shut in his face. Okay, so he tried to push his way into the bathroom and somebody behind the door slammed it shut in his face. So he noticed blood pouring out from under the door. That's a lot of stuff going on right now. So he ran to get his cell phone and he heard his wife scream at the top of her lungs, Jehovah. And that was the last words that Young High ever spoke.
00:43:25
Speaker
So when Ryan went back upstairs to see what was going on, the door opened and his stepdaughter, Isabella Guzman stood there with the knife dripping in her hand and she herself completely covered in blood. She walked past him without saying a word and left the house. Why would, okay, just devil's advocate here. Why would you not take him out too?
00:43:53
Speaker
Like he's a witness. If you just killed your mother and cold blood. Why are you not going to kill your stepfather? He's a witness to said murder. Who knows? OK. Who knows? All right. All right. So according to the autopsy, Yon High was stabbed in the neck and face 79 times. That's a lot of rage. That's a lot of rage. It's a lot. It's a lot of rage. So Isabella Fusman.
00:44:21
Speaker
Apparently had rage issues that were apparent long before the murder started happening now. This young woman was 18 years old when she carried out this murder. That's young. Yeah, that's really young. At some point, Yun Hai had openly admitted to being afraid of Isabella, which is her dog. Did they not get her help? But no matter what happened between them, Yun Hai never kicked her out of the house. I could only assume because she thought that
00:44:50
Speaker
it would just get better at some point. You know what I mean? Like no parent really wants to look at their kid and be like, dude, you're a lunatic, right? If I'm afraid of my kid, somebody, something's going to have to change or happen. Well, from what I gathered, hold on one second. I'm just going to keep going. So even, uh, even the night that the murder occurred, she sent her mom an email stating you will pay for what birthing you? Yeah. So
00:45:20
Speaker
Uh, the mom called the cops. That was the family dispute, right? Yeah. Her and Isabel had gotten into this huge argument. Yeah. She had called the cops. Yeah. And Isabel sent her an email saying you're going to pay for this. Basically for calling the cops. I would assume so. I'm not sure. Who knows? But nothing happened. It's not. She didn't even get a slap on the wrist. No. And apparently, according to other people's testimony, she would like spit in her mom's face and scream at her. Heck no. Yeah. Heck no.
00:45:51
Speaker
After the after all of the chaos. You know, I guess maybe they're at some point young high, just thought maybe. You know, I know she gets angry, but she'd never hurt me. You know what I mean? But your mother's love is always that one line in the line. Absolutely. So according to some of Isabella's testimony, she was abused. But when I tried to find like
00:46:18
Speaker
any kind of the abuse claims that she had made, like there were none. It was really just her saying, I was abused. My parents were Jehovah's Witnesses. I left the religion when I was 14 and you know, it just got worse after that. And so I don't know if her abuse was based solely on the fact that like with that religion, like you have very strict rules. You know what I'm saying? Like it, and it's not, it'd be more like a military, you know, scenario, I would think.
00:46:47
Speaker
So basically, she didn't want to live that way, thus making it abuse. That's my opinion. I don't know. You know what I mean? So. Isabella was found not guilty. What? Uh huh. By reason of insanity and sentenced to a mental hospital. OK, she was diagnosed with schizophrenia. In 2015, reported that she had been sexually assaulted by a hospital employee in a closet when asked when the reporters asked
00:47:16
Speaker
You know what? That was what happened here. The hospital denied any information whatsoever. Now, I don't want to see if maybe you'll recognize this because it's been, you know, we'll go into the little way back machine, right? Yeah. This girl was tick tock famous. She was the little Asian girl who sat in her trial and she was all over tick tock, just being like sarcastic faces and like showing that she had no remorse for killing her mother.
00:47:41
Speaker
Do you remember that? I don't. But I'll have to try to find those so we can post them. But she straight up, I mean, was viral on TikTok. Like, people made this girl who brutally savagely murdered her mother viral on TikTok. Like, and it pisses me off because why would you give somebody that kind of glory for stabbing her mother? Like, were they were they praising her or were they just like talking about like, oh, my God.
00:48:09
Speaker
You know, when I, when I had seen them, it was, there was, there was a lot of different comments. Everybody always has their comments or whatever, but the video never showed like disgust toward her itself. How many people actually go in and read the comments on the TikTok video? I don't. But like, okay, just to make it relevant in comparison to today's world.
00:48:30
Speaker
We are not starting a thread to discuss this case, just comparison. Johnny Depp, Amber Heard. So was she treated on TikTok like Amber Heard is being treated on TikTok? No, not really, no.
00:48:44
Speaker
Just so like every every video that I had ever seen because it triggered me the moment I was like, I remember this she just straight up like there was nothing behind her eyes. It was just ghostly. Okay, she just and she every Yeah, every video that was in we could you know, we could get on YouTube right now You can look it up. Well, if I knew where I put my phone. Yeah, but I don't well either way So
00:49:10
Speaker
That was like one of the biggest talking points that I had is like what, what people are, it just disgusts me. So you've got this young girl now, right? Who clearly had mental issues. Yeah. Right. And so I'm going to start my talking point here because you've heard the story and now we're going to have some rebuttal. It's like you were saying, okay, she's already showing signs of. Yeah. At what point for a mom or for a dad or for whoever,
00:49:40
Speaker
do you look at your daughter and say, I'm having you. You know that it is easy to say now in hindsight that they should have had her committed. It's super easy to say that. Um, and actually we are recording the last day of May or the second to last day of May. We're going to post this in June, but may is, um, mental health awareness month. Okay. So, um,
00:50:10
Speaker
It's easy to say looking back that, yeah, you should have had her committed. You should have had her put in therapy, but this is 2013 while it is more progressed than some time periods. It's only like the past few years that getting help for mental, like mental instability is mainstream and.
00:50:32
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, like if you saw like if you go to talk and they were Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeah, they probably don't even really and I don't know again that whole religion or whatever. But they may not even believe in that kind of modern science. You know what I mean? I don't I don't think that they do. But even like normal everyday people like today, I mean,
00:50:52
Speaker
I've literally got 30 coworkers who openly go to counseling, like family counseling, marriage counseling, or counseling with their kids for different situations. But five years ago, you would not say that. Like that was a hush, hush. And we're in 2022 right now. So 2013, you definitely wouldn't be open about my kid has mental instability. I mean, because in a parent's mind, especially in that day and age, that's a black mark that'll follow them the rest of their lives. It's going to keep them from getting a job. It's going to keep them from being successful. Everyone's going to think they're quote unquote,
00:51:22
Speaker
crazy not my opinion but that was the that was the thought in that time frame so yes it is easy in today's today's age to say they should have put her in counseling and treatment but back then I don't think that that would that's not the normal stance he would have taken maybe if she was physically abusive like beating her mom regularly maybe
00:51:47
Speaker
But then like when you sit here and you wonder about like these two were clearly having some arguments. OK, arguments enough to where we were calling the cops. Yeah. To get this girl to chill out. OK, so we don't know. She may have may have very well put her hands on a moment at multiple times. OK. But as a mom. Like this is where my line goes so gray. She's literally I just felt pictures of her.
00:52:15
Speaker
She's literally like smiling employee. Yeah. In her trial. In her trial. Like it didn't even matter. She doesn't care at all. Yeah. And so like with that's OK. So with her diagnosis of like schizophrenia or whatever, I just don't see it being feasible that this entire trial she showed no remorse for murdering her. Like and I don't know how schizophrenia works, but I feel like there's breaking points where you're not always mental. Yeah. Like you have your ups and your downs.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, but if you're like a lot of that is when you're getting treatment and when you're on the right medication, if she was undiagnosed, she's 18 years old. Her parents are a very restrictive religion. Very restrictive. So she is probably acting out. She may be self-medicating with drugs and or alcohol. Because not only is it is it self treating her her issues, but it's also one more stick it to your mama.
00:53:14
Speaker
If any of that was even going on, but it's just the rage and the anger. Like she might not have ups and downs at that point. She might've just been so angry. Cause like, why did her parents divorce? I have no idea. We don't know. But if she blames her mom, how long has she been married to this new guy? Right. Were they Jehovah's witnesses before her mom married this new guy?
00:53:37
Speaker
All the, because a lot of times in Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't know a ton of them. I mean, let's be honest, the most I know about it is they knock on your door all the time and they ride by. I think that's the more, I'm not sure. I don't know a lot about either. Sorry guys. I don't think you're allowed to get divorced in those types of religions. Right. So more than likely, and this is literally just me theorizing here. Her mom more than likely converted to Jehovah's Witnesses after marrying this new guy.
00:54:08
Speaker
because he was just a- And then her life changed. And then her life changed. So she's just a bottle of A, crazy, because she has an undiagnosed mental illness. And at that point, she's not diagnosed. She's not diagnosed. So she is just, her mind is going crazy on her. She probably doesn't understand, but all she knows is she's pissed all the time. Her life has changed. Her dad is gone. This new guy has changed her mom, who was the only person she had left.
00:54:38
Speaker
Like that's a lot of anger and it's not going to be this, this quote unquote new stepdad. It's going to be at her mom for changing everything. Which is why the biggest question you asked was why didn't she attack him? I don't think that he at that time had anything to do with her age. It was simply the mom. She's bad as a mom. And if she was, if she was abused, maybe, maybe her dad was abusing her and that's why her mom left.
00:55:04
Speaker
And at that point, her mom was her savior, right? Her mom's her best friend. Her mom's whatever. Then she meets this new guy and her mom is in her opinion, brainwashed by a cult. Yeah. And now she's supposed to follow these, these strict religious views that she doesn't believe in. And it's just anger and hatred. And you really just don't know what, again, that is just major, major, major talking points to our podcast as always.
00:55:32
Speaker
you just don't know what the human mind is capable of.
Mental Illness and Justice System Discussion
00:55:34
Speaker
And whether or not you're diagnosed with something or you're not, you know, it, wow. You can go to a dark spot no matter what. You can go to a dark spot even with help and diagnosis. If you allow yourself, cause you're, I mean, it's like how, how many times have you read a book? Like you've read a really good book. I've got one in mind. If I read it today, it wouldn't be that great, but whatever.
00:56:00
Speaker
then you watch the movie and you're like, seriously? Yeah, they ruin it for you. Like Twilight. Twilight's what I'm thinking of. Loved the books. Then the movies came out and you're like, what just happened? That's not at all. And now he's got the mower out. It's not like we're incognito with a huge computer and microphone, bro-ham. But you know what I mean? Like your mind can, the mind, what our imaginations can come up with,
00:56:31
Speaker
beats anything that like you can see. But that also goes in the other way. Like your mind can twist things and turn things and create things that weren't there. Especially this young girl at such a young age. And that's kind of what I was thinking. With this strict thing and it's 2013, the world is changing. You want your freedom. You want to do what you want to do. And your mom is over here repeatedly telling you no.
00:57:02
Speaker
You know what I mean? And that is a hard pill to swallow. Especially when you're 18. You're quote unquote an adult. Correct. And so that's kind of where my mind went. Like your mind went for complete justification and I totally understand that.
00:57:16
Speaker
But at the same time, there's so many unknowns like she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and there lies the reason why she did what she did. But I think it was never that simple. It's never that simple. There are lots of people who are schizophrenic who live fulfilled lives. They do have issues they have to overcome, but they live fulfilled lives and they're there.
00:57:35
Speaker
somewhat functioning members of society. But they're medicated, they go to counseling, they go to therapy. They have a regimented life that they know what they need to do when they need to do it to be able to live that life. Undiagnosed and unchecked.
00:57:52
Speaker
All right, so I'm glad you said that because I'm going to move back down to the rest of the notes that I have because this is another good little talking point for us. Okay. Okay. All right. So in 2021 is a year. Yep. Isabella had a parole attempt where she stated she was on medication and everything is good now. Nope. Okay.
00:58:12
Speaker
The hospital granted her the ability to leave the group home or the hospital to be able to go out into the public to do activities like group activities as long as she wore a GPS tracker. Nope. At this point, she had done seven years. Nope. Now I'm going to get into detail. Ready? She stabbed her mom 31 times in the face. I was going to say it was like over 70 times. And 48 times in the neck.
00:58:42
Speaker
Uh, now I will say that this is just documents that I wrote that, cause there were a lot of different people that said that she was stabbed 151 times. There was, you know, there was another thing saying that there was also a baseball bat involved. Unless you can see the actual corners report, you don't ever truly know. Yeah. And I'm not going to fabricate any of that. That's just the speculation on, on what happened either way.
00:59:08
Speaker
Being stabbed in the face. Do you know how much energy it takes? 31 times. And then 48 times in the neck. Just take your hand and try to rock, paper, scissors motion. Yeah, for like 20 minutes. Nothing. Yeah. I don't have that much energy. No. I'd be done for the day. I'd have to nap for the rest of the day. Yeah. And it's not even just that, but you're actually physically trying to penetrate something. It takes about four half months saying. It'd be like if you were in a pool and you're just trying to box in a pool.
00:59:38
Speaker
with your fist clearly under the water, right? There's- So seven years and they say, now, okay, do you know if she was tried as an adult or not? She was 18 years old, she'd have had to admit that it wouldn't have mattered either way. Whether she was a minor, she was already 18. Okay. But even when she was tried, she got the minimum of what could have happened to her because she was diagnosed with a mental illness. So she never spent any time in prison whatsoever.
01:00:08
Speaker
She went to a mental hospital. Yeah. But should I will say in most countries besides the United States, they probably don't understand our outrage because most places that I've heard about now, some are like complete like opposite of the United States and they're super like, you know, you're thrown into a hole and forgotten. But a lot of places try to rehabilitate. They don't even have like a true life sentence like we have. Like they try to rehabilitate
01:00:38
Speaker
and get out even with mercury. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Canada's that way. I'm pretty sure Great Britain and everything Great Britain owns. But you know what I mean? Like most places do try to rehabilitate. And I get that, you know, she did have an undo. But some pills ain't gonna help all that. And see here's, this is my biggest quorum and opinion with all of the pills to make people better again, okay?
01:01:03
Speaker
once they're out they don't have to keep taking those exactly how many times have you seen on any like lifetime our detective show where they hide the pill underneath their tongue and they don't shake in your head they spit it out because i think they're caught well plus those those pills for a lot of pills for mental for mental especially back then when they weren't you know we've come a long way oh there's a laundry list but they give a lot of side effects yes there's a laundry pill that way there's even side effects for um
01:01:34
Speaker
like Lexapro and stuff? Everything has side effects. You're gonna be tired, you're gonna get fat, you're gonna be, you know what I mean? Like anything to make people feel like. I literally heard, I'm not kidding, I was driving home yesterday and I heard a advertisement on the radio, it was on Spotify, so it was to a podcast. It was talking about Peroni's disease if you have a crooked penis. Okay, oh my god, okay. And they were talking about the medication and like literally like they give like this little blip about it but then they go into the side effects and they're like, do not have an erection or you could fracture your penis.
01:02:03
Speaker
You can hemorrhage. You can die. You can end it like... So basically, you have a little bit of a crooked wee-wee, or you could possibly die to get a nice straight look. Like, keep the crook. I mean, the side of things. People might call you Captain Hook, guys, but it's really not that big a deal. It's not worth your life to be straight.
01:02:25
Speaker
How do we go from murder to crooked dicks? We were talking about side effects of medication. Like, it kills me that they are like, here, take this medication. Side effects. Like, the side effects, but that's what I'm saying. Like, there's no way to tell. She's wearing an ankle monitor. Are they checking her blood to see if the medication levels are still accurate? Yeah, I don't know. Are they just letting her out? They are hoping for the best. As of right now, she still can't like leave the facility. She's still in the mental facility, but she's trying to get out. Is there a petition?
01:02:56
Speaker
There won't be. We should have a petition. Oh, let her out into the general public. Just something, man. You can't just, like, if you're letting these, like, and I get that she's maybe not the greatest excuse or greatest example, but when you let, like, pedophiles, how many pedophiles are out in the public that have been released because they've been, quote unquote, rehabilitated?
01:03:20
Speaker
You can pull up like how many pedophiles are in your neighborhood or in a five mile area. Yeah, right in your radius. You just didn't wait to see if they re-offend again. No, I should have a say if these monsters are getting put back on the streets near me and my child. And same thing, she brutally killed her mother. The general public should be able to say, if we want her living next door to us. And even if you go to her
01:03:46
Speaker
because they did a YouTube video on it. She was interviewing with somebody in Colorado, one of the main people.
Reflections on Discipline
01:03:55
Speaker
And even when she was discussing everything, it was always, well, I was abused when I was younger and this happened to me and blah, blah, blah. There's no remorse. There's no remorse. I would have been like, I can't believe I did that. I cannot believe that I let my rage get so
01:04:13
Speaker
see if you admit you know what I'm saying admit what you did and show some kind of remorse to be able to be rehabilitated justify now you can say she said I was on this medication before I probably never would have done that no she can say I was angry
01:04:29
Speaker
I can't believe I did that. I'm sorry I let it get that bad. I had all these, example A, B, and C, why I was that way, but ultimately she needs to take responsibility for what she did. And it's just, but I feel like everything she's saying is such a teenage response to things.
01:04:48
Speaker
There's no, this is why I did what I did. You know what I mean? Like, it's in it. I hate to say it because I'm not a teenager anymore, so I'm going to say it. But they justify their behavior to the umph degree. It is never their fault. Nothing they ever, well, I can't even say just teenagers. Adults do the same friggin thing, but like, they take no responsibility for what they've done. That generation especially. Oh, agreed. Like, agreed. The early whatever, like, all the kids that weren't spanked.
01:05:18
Speaker
I was spanked. And you know what? I know for a fact that when I got caught, when I was younger, I had two options. I could lie and get spanked longer and grounded longer or I could admit it and I'd get spanked and I'd have a consequences.
01:05:37
Speaker
but there's gonna be a consequence for your action. It's just how bad that's gonna be, and that depended on me. And nine times out of 10, I chose to try to talk my way out of it like an idiot. But my parents do exactly what happened, because they're no fools. Yeah. And see, like, you know, we talk about getting spanked, guys. We're not talking about a parent that, like, you know, beats the tar out of us. No. They do it calm, cool, and rationally. Oh, no. My dad, if he was too mad, like, one time, one of my brothers, we lived out in Mill Sticks, Louisiana.
01:06:06
Speaker
and me and my middle brother were riding a go-kart having some fun and my little brother wanted to get on the go-kart and we would let him. We kept laughing at him as we drove by and at one point Micah actually dumped me off the go-kart and drove over top of me. Oh my gosh. In his joy but Zach had a temper
01:06:25
Speaker
And he literally had a BB gun that was clogged with dirt and he pumped it. The whole time we were driving, aimed it and shot. And it came out and the BB hit Micah in the face, right in his lower lip and got lodged. It like got lodged between his lip and his gum, like in the lip, the fat. And Micah's screaming, running inside, bloody lip. Cause Zach shot him in the face with a BB gun. And my dad said, Zach,
01:06:55
Speaker
go to my room, lay down on my bed, and I will talk to you in a little while. And Zach stayed in that room for like two hours until my dad was like, A, till they, now, you know, Doc Chris that lived down the street, who was our family doctor, because we were poor, he went to our church, was not home, and my mom was trying to like examine it, pop the BB out my, the other side of Mike is lit. Like a giant zit, just boop. Like it popped inside his mouth because he swallowed it. Oh God. And, uh, but,
01:07:23
Speaker
But like, I remember my dad, like my mom was like, Chris, Chris, Chris. He was like, you all need to go outside. I will deal with Zach. And he waited until he was calm and rational and no longer angry to go in there. Cause it was never like, you didn't just get spanked. Like my dad sat on the bed. We talked about it. We talked about why he was going to spank us. We talked about how he did not want to spank us. So like him more. I'm just going to mentally damage you first.
01:07:52
Speaker
you know we call them teachable moments now that my dad like mentally like voodoo's you into his mission but like he never spanked just while he was angry we could sit in there all day and the longer you sat the more you knew oh buddy you were in trouble yeah but it was never like when my dad spanked me it was never out of anger i think i've got spanked very few times i actually someone made i think you told me the comment that somebody said once in a daycare or something i don't know but i believe it
01:08:19
Speaker
if you believe if you're if you know it was an episode of houses where I got it and I just use the terminology you believe in spanking you will rarely have to use it I believe I'm fine and the way the way it goes dude is it's you you don't you don't have to actually spank your kid they just you just have to make them think you're going to yes they just have to know there's a consequence
01:08:42
Speaker
And that generation had no consequences, because their parents did get their butts beaten, and it's child abuse now. I was just gonna say, now, like, your kid, you know, like, my aunt works for a school system up in Boston, and literally, if a kid gets in trouble, and they state a phrase, which is a common thing to say for anybody, oh, my dad's gonna kick my butt, she has to report that.
01:09:08
Speaker
Do you know that when I went to school, the principal paddled you? Because I can't tell you how many times I'd sit. That didn't happen when I was in school. I'd sit in school and the principal would be walking by with one of my brothers to go get a paddling and I was like giggling because I knew, who they were in trouble when we got home. But if you got paddled at school, oh, you were drunk. You were twice as bad when you got home.
01:09:32
Speaker
But like, and it's not this weird thing where it's like, oh, it's fun to beat your kids. It's, it's taming the beast within. You know what I mean? It's not even like beating your kids. Just have real consequences. Right. That's what I'm saying. And so when these kids get out into the real world and their parents can't take it anymore. Yeah, it's way to a Sunday lawn mower. Yeah, get really close to the microphone. Sorry, guys. I'm sorry, guys.
01:09:53
Speaker
But it is having real consequences because when these kids get out into the real world and they're old enough and their parents can't handle their drama anymore. They're not ready for the real world because no one told them no. Kids have absolutely no problem whatsoever.
01:10:10
Speaker
Smacking you when they're five six seven eight years old. Oh, they have no problem. There's no there is no Remorse for that whatsoever. No, I have had my kid whack me in the face when he was like two or three years old And I popped him on his little butt because you need to understand That with your stupidity there's a consequence. So this little girl right now is 18 years old. I never had a consequence
01:10:34
Speaker
Well, no, maybe she did have a consequence, but not quite what we're talking about, right? Yeah. Like her consequence was maybe time out or... And I'm not saying that that doesn't work, because there are some kids that you could probably beat with a baseball bat and then look at you and laugh. The bottom line is you have to know your kid and you have to know it works for your kid. Like my child, literally all I have to do is look at her and say, I'm so disappointed in your behavior right now.
01:10:59
Speaker
and she is wrecked for the rest of the day. She is crying, she's so disappointing herself, she puts herself in timeout, she puts all her toys up, she disciplines herself just because I said, if I do anything else, if I take her toys away, she don't care. She's gonna find a box of color and be
Personal Anecdotes and Podcast Closure
01:11:18
Speaker
fine with her life. All you have to do is look at her and say, I am so disappointed in you and she's broken. But you have to spend the time to know your kids.
01:11:27
Speaker
Because my kid, I could just take something away from him, and he was, you know. But my kid grew up his whole life, like he never had an emotional attachment to something. No, your kid is hard, it doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Because even if I smack him, he just looks at me like I'm a, just, that's all you got, ma! Like, that's... Like, to actually, quote unquote, spank him, it would be child abuse to get to his level of, like, threshold. Yep. The only thing that works for him is, I'm gonna call Uncle Frankie. Yeah.
01:11:54
Speaker
is why Belle is like, hey, your kid doesn't listen. You call me on speed road, and you're like, tell Frankie to call me. Yeah. But you know what, though? Boys are a lot different than girls. That's true. And like you said, you know, your brother shot your brother in the face with a BB gun. Have I never told you that story? No. I can't believe you've never heard that story. Boys are crazy, and you've got to get to their level.
01:12:18
Speaker
Not like we all, I'm a, you know, first time mom, so is Faith, but we also know what it was like when we grew up. And at 36 years old, I can honestly say I still have the utmost respect for my mom and my dad. Oh, heck yeah. You know what I mean? Disappointing my parents was like, the worst. Yeah. Oh, well. That was a good one. The short kept us on time. Kind of, kind of. Now that Mr. Lawnmower's like, apparently decided to mow your lawn. Yeah, kind of looks that way, doesn't it? Uh, well.
01:12:47
Speaker
Guys, I hope you enjoyed Colorado and California. Mine was Colorado. I don't think I started with that. I don't think you did either. Oh, well. It's in the notes. So we'll post some things. We'll post different pictures of both stories without a lot more. And on our Instagram, which is TwistedTalesPod, or on our Facebook group, which is Tails True Crime, or you can send us an email at TailsTrueCrime.com.
01:13:16
Speaker
This is all on the show notes. I've also got times tagged in the show notes for when each state starts and stops if you weren't in one store than the other. Still accepting resumes, haven't gotten any of those, so feel free to send them out. You've got a house that doesn't have geriatric lawnmowers.
01:13:35
Speaker
you go to the top of the list you go to the top of the list guys also feel free if you feel like we've gotten something wrong and some of our stories like you know how reliable really is Google
01:13:50
Speaker
You know, if we got something wrong, if you're there, if you were from there and you know a little bit more about it, feel free to shoot us an email and say, hey guys, this wasn't exactly correct. And we will definitely... We'll correct ourselves. We have no qualms saying we're wrong. Lisa's used to it by now. Yeah.
01:14:07
Speaker
Hey, what comes first? Alabama or Alaska? I love the alphabet. I may not know geographical locations, but at least I know the alphabet. Well, I hope you guys are having a great summer, and we will see you in a few days. You'll listen to us in a few days, hopefully either way. Bye. Bye.