Introduction to Roseplate Special
00:00:17
Steve
Oh, hello. And I'm Steve.
00:00:21
Sammi
And you're listening to Roseplate Special, the most dramatic ah villain editing-ist, dating celebrities in-ist, quoting Finding Nemo-ing-ist recap podcast of The Bachelor ever.
Courtney Robertson Special Episode
00:00:39
Sammi
And we have a special episode for you today that I've been dying to do for like, I feel like I've been talking about doing this for two years.
00:00:44
Steve
At least two years, yeah, yeah.
00:00:45
Sammi
So sorry about that, everyone. But I i am a woman of my word.
00:00:49
Sammi
It just sometimes it takes a long time for me to deliver.
00:00:53
Sammi
um And we today are going to be covering I didn't come here to make friends. And as a bonus, I also rewatched the season that Courtney was on to get like a fresh perspective of what that season was like.
00:01:07
Sammi
So And I'm sleep deprived right now, so I'll probably forget everything. But I do have bookmarks. I do have bookmarks. um I pulled up the Kindle like Cloud Reader, and I've got ah bookmarks on a bunch of things that Courtney said.
00:01:21
Sammi
So hopefully that'll like spark my memory.
Sami's Academic Achievements
00:01:24
Sammi
um But listen, my semester just ended. I finished grading on Thursday. And I'm going to say, like I had a great accomplishment of getting a 4.0 this semester.
00:01:35
Sammi
So thank you. I can balance.
00:01:38
Sammi
Thank you the bachelor and getting good grades at the same time. um But my best accomplishment so far was my professor sending well I sent him an email just like thanking him for the class and whatever and you know I learned a lot of piqued my interest whatever. Hopefully we cross paths and I'll keep you posted on this research that I'm doing that he found interesting and and he was like yeah for sure you know and like definitely keep me in the mood for everything and then he also said PS you always had the coolest outfits.
00:02:07
Sammi
Just saying, yeah, this was one like this was one of the first ones I wore in class. And he was like, nice jumpsuit. And I was like, thanks. And then I was like, I need to dress for this class every time. And I really tried to show up every class wearing something different and interesting. And it made an impression. So listen, like academics are important. but
00:02:31
Steve
Fashion is also important.
00:02:31
Sammi
That was honestly, that was like the highlight of my semester. I was like, no other professor gives a shit what I wear to class. And he was always like, oh my gosh, yes. And and then I had like had done my nails.
00:02:42
Sammi
And he's like, in your nails match, I can't. That's amazing. And I was like, thank you.
00:02:46
Steve
They, well, this is like when I, when I first met you in grad school, I knew we were going to be friends cause I'm like, Oh look, it's in real life.
00:02:52
Steve
Miss Frizzle. Like I can't wait to hang out with her. It's going to be great.
00:02:55
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. As advertised, I also did just get my nails done today. Let's see if that'll focus the nail ease.
00:03:01
Steve
Ooh, little green action, little sparkle.
00:03:03
Sammi
Yeah. They're a little sparkly. Yeah. Pretty nice. Cause tomorrow I will be streaming.
Twitch Streaming Announcement
00:03:09
Sammi
I'll try to post this tonight so that like, if you are around tomorrow, you'll actually see it.
00:03:13
Sammi
If you go to twitch.tv slash Sami Ditto, S-A-M-M-I-D-I-T-T-O, I'll be streaming for 12 hours and I'm going to play Zelda the whole, hopefully the whole time.
00:03:22
Sammi
And um I've got a green shirt that I got from this company called Ray Gun. I don't know if you're familiar with them. They have like really good shirts. And um it says, I paused Zelda to be here.
00:03:34
Sammi
So I'm really excited to wear that shirt tomorrow. Anyway, that's that's exciting. So what's been going on with you since we wrapped our last season?
Season Conclusion
00:03:43
Steve
Oh my God, a whole lot of nothing really. i Yeah, so I was i was teaching ching and and and that wrapped up a couple of weeks ago.
00:03:51
Steve
So that's about it. That's it.
00:03:55
Steve
I've just been trying to, you know, leisurely read a nice bachelor book and enjoy my time off from reality TV, indulge in the other shows that I enjoy.
00:04:05
Steve
A lot of Below Deck, a lot of City Real Housewives.
00:04:10
Sammi
Nice, I gotta catch up.
00:04:10
Steve
The good stuff. i've been i've been
00:04:13
Sammi
I'm so behind on Salt Lake City. I'm behind on that and Potomac, but I did see the infamous video ah of Karen Huger, but we won't talk about that today.
00:04:22
Sammi
We gotta talk about Courtney.
Courtney's Book Club Discussion
00:04:25
Steve
Book club. We did it. We read a book.
00:04:27
Sammi
I know we read a book and maybe we'll read another one. We did read a couple already, just for the record. So we are literate.
00:04:34
Sammi
We did meet in grad school, but believe it or not.
00:04:35
Steve
Yeah. So, and I did the reading most of it. So there you go.
00:04:41
Sammi
This was a good book. I mean, honestly, I've been dying to read it. I don't know. Like the first time I read it, it took me a while to kind of like get going. But she really kind of goes off to the races pretty fast, which means I did not get very far in the book initially.
00:04:55
Sammi
um But I will say, OK, before we get into kind of the nitty gritty and we can kind of go through the you know, the way she breaks down the book. And I think in between, I'll I'll interject with some of my impressions of the season after watching it, um rewatching it like last week.
00:05:11
Sammi
What did you think of the book overall? um What are some of your major takeaways overall? and any ah I don't know. Like general reflection, I guess, of the book.
00:05:22
Steve
Yeah, it it was it was fun. It was breezy. It was a good read. And the thing that I really liked about her is she really digs into some people like she's willing to sling some shit, which I appreciate because we don't get a lot of that in The Bachelor and she seems very honest about things.
00:05:38
Steve
But that same energy, she projects it at herself too. like There's an entire chapter dedicated to how she used to have a giant bush.
00:05:47
Steve
like Good for her. If you're willing to go bush mode in your in your book, like clearly you're you're being an honest person, which I think is good because she's critical of herself so that
00:05:59
Steve
I know when she's being critical of other people or you know sharing her perspective on different things, it makes me believe her more. like She seems like she's a straight shooter, which I appreciate.
00:06:11
Steve
um That being said, there are two things
00:06:15
Steve
that I didn't enjoy.
00:06:17
Steve
um One was I split my time, so I read half the book and then I finished the other half, or I listened to the other half on Spotify because they have the the book on tape, which she actually reads, which is in that book.
00:06:28
Sammi
ah The book on tape.
00:06:30
Steve
is You know what I mean. The audio book. Sorry, I'm 3000 years old. What do you want from me?
00:06:35
Sammi
Yeah, the book on tape.
00:06:36
Steve
The book, yeah, I put my cassettes in. No, so she she reads it. So here my here are my two takeaways that i I did not enjoy. One, this book was written like over a decade ago, right?
00:06:49
Steve
So there's a lot of similes, a lot of references. you know, blah, blah, blah was like blah, blah, blah. But all of her pop culture references have aged like just milk, man, just the milkiest milk, not good.
00:07:06
Steve
ah And so that's, you know, not great. But also it's like with this kind of book, whatever, I can forgive that. The only thing that I cannot forgive is at one point she's talking about, and I forget who it was, it was someone that she was dating,
00:07:22
Steve
And they drove a Prius, but she called it a Prius in the audio book.
00:07:27
Steve
Yeah. And I was like, what? Yeah. She's like, and he rolled up at his Prius. I'm like, what the hell is a pride? I'm like, Oh God, she beats Prius.
00:07:39
Sammi
That's like the one thing that pulls me out of audiobooks when someone pronounces something wrong.
00:07:43
Sammi
like i I think that just happened today. um But I need to like look it up to make sure, because it was like a proper noun. and But there it happened in another book I listened to, but it was supposed to happen.
00:07:56
Sammi
And the character just corrected him like a second later. And I was like, OK, I was about to have an aneurysm. So now everything is fine.
00:08:02
Steve
yeah it was it was just weird because I don't know it happens.
00:08:06
Steve
And I'm sure there's things that I have pronounced wrong and will continue to pronounce wrong.
00:08:10
Steve
I mean, yeah, scrub through our TikTok channel. There's probably there's there's endless clips.
00:08:13
Sammi
I'm sure we've we've said lots of wrong things. Yeah, we're not perfect.
00:08:15
Steve
Yeah, i no I'm, I'm exceptionally good at being wrong.
00:08:17
Sammi
Po buddies nerfic. Yeah.
00:08:21
Steve
So with that being said, I'm like, that's a weird one to get wrong.
00:08:25
Sammi
a Prius. Yeah, maybe she's thinking of p prions and you know, she knew someone who had mad cow disease and she's just like very, you know, traumatized by it.
00:08:37
Sammi
Yeah, I think, yeah, those are good takeaways. My biggest takeaway was Courtney Robertson has got to be the most honest person on the planet because if she wasn't, everyone would be trying to sue her.
00:08:50
Sammi
like This has got to be true because some of the things she says are so damning that if they weren't true, someone would try to sue her.
00:08:58
Sammi
like and And they're high profile enough that it would could be a fairly good case with some of these folks. So I was like, I think she is honest about all of this stuff. And I know she's like pretty chummy with reality Steve.
00:09:10
Sammi
like She comes on his podcast pretty frequently. um And I do my biggest takeaway having read the book and watched the season again is I think Courtney Robertson is Michelle Money without a redemption arc.
00:09:27
Sammi
Like, they're the same, you know, or Demi even, I mean, like, I don't think she said anything that I mean, she said things that weren't nice.
00:09:36
Sammi
And she admits that in the book. And we can get to that later. um She's like, that wasn't my finest moment. Like, that wasn't great. But what I do believe is that all of the women were being equally toxic.
00:09:47
Sammi
And they didn't show that on camera. And um she probably thought the delivery was going to be funny and not mean.
00:09:55
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. And it was interesting
Bachelor Villain Portrayal
00:09:58
Steve
too, because I'm glad that like in bachelor world, all you have is a notebook. Cause I'm sure she was writing a lot of this down, but like some of her observations about, you know, the the way that she would say things and she's like, yeah.
00:10:12
Steve
And then people laugh, but then they cut it and it's just like, Oh, and then she says something and they don't show people laughing.
00:10:19
Steve
And then it makes like like the and noise she said.
00:10:22
Sammi
Yeah, it's like, oh, she's she's such a bitch. Like, you know, like there was that when they went to Puerto Rico and and Ben had asked a question like, has anyone ever been there?
00:10:32
Sammi
And she goes, I was just there two months ago. Like, just like a I'm answering your question.
00:10:38
Sammi
But when you watch it, it's like, we're going to Puerto Rico. Oh, I was just there two months ago. Like made it sound like she was being like such a bitch.
00:10:43
Steve
Yeah, like being the worst person alive. I know it's crazy.
00:10:46
Sammi
And I'm like, But that makes sense. like And that's the thing, the way that she describes how she interpreted the editing process totally tracks with what we know happens.
00:10:58
Sammi
So I also believe everything she said, she also doesn't deny anything she said. And when you read the book and watch the season like together, she Practically and sometimes exactly quotes what she said and what other people said so she's not so and she's taking that and she's adding the context around it but it doesn't it's like ah you and i have seen people try to act like oh it's editing it's editing and you're like.
00:11:27
Sammi
No, and she had she's like, nobody put words in my mouth. I said all those things that I said, but I want you to understand the state I was in, what I thought was going to happen, the things I regret.
00:11:41
Sammi
and I had no idea that there was going to be this kind of backlash afterwards. And I totally believe her that she had and she and she had a good career.
00:11:51
Sammi
Why would she, you know, threaten her career and, you know, make people feel like they wouldn't want to work with her when she had like good regular recurring work like there's no way.
00:12:01
Steve
Oh my gosh. Yeah. There's, there's, there's like no value in her doing the bachelor to like enhance her career, if anything.
00:12:08
Steve
And she readily admits that she's like, Oh, it like screwed up my career for several years.
00:12:12
Steve
And she kind of knew that going into it and people warned her about that. And there you go. You know?
00:12:18
Sammi
And she was better than the show. I agree with her. I mean, when she says that it's true, you know, like, and I do think she was better than a lot of the women there, you know?
00:12:26
Steve
Especially like you when you watch it, you're like like she is so like stunningly beautiful on that show, and you're just like, oh.
00:12:33
Steve
like There's that part where ah she references it in the book, but basically Ben's like, oh, you're a model. like he like you He just kind of like lights up with it because it's like, yeah, she is like so just far above so many of these girls.
00:12:48
Steve
like she' there's just She's just totally on a different level.
00:12:51
Sammi
Yeah, and it takes yeah.
00:12:51
Steve
Um, and and she's the kind of person who like commands the screen commands a room. Um, yeah, she's, she's great.
00:12:58
Sammi
Yeah, well, and it takes like a really secure person to be friends with someone like that. And I think this was by and she had friends in the house and a lot of them were the ones who were also targeted for being like Blakely Blakely is also gorgeous.
00:13:15
Sammi
you know, and and confident.
00:13:17
Sammi
And I think they were. And it's weird. Like, that's one of the things that when you're like, oh, yeah, this was only about 10 years ago, a little longer than 10 years ago. But you're like the amount of slut shaming they did and like, yeah.
00:13:30
Sammi
And they're like, she's a stripper. And I'm like, even if she was, what the hell is wrong with you?
00:13:36
Sammi
Like she's like, yeah, she was like told and she like she even did people's hair in the house.
00:13:43
Sammi
I'm like, she's like She's like foiling people's hair, okay?
00:13:48
Sammi
Blakely is putting in the work and you're being so mean to her, like that's not appropriate. And even Courtney is like, I shouldn't have done that. That was a low blow. Everyone was coming for her.
00:13:57
Sammi
Literally the only person who stayed out of the fray was Lindsay. She was the only one and Courtney admits it too.
00:14:03
Sammi
I mean, she kind of throws, she calls Lindsay a horse girl, which like she is a horse girl.
00:14:09
Steve
Yeah, you know, that's.
00:14:10
Sammi
It's true, she is a horse girl, but like,
Bachelor House Dynamics
00:14:13
Sammi
Literally, I think every everyone like it was a toxic house. Some of the houses are great, and everybody's awesome, and they get along, and it's really friendly.
00:14:22
Sammi
um this was She said, and I'm sure still, it seems like one of the drunkest houses and one of the most toxic, nasty houses.
00:14:31
Steve
No, that's what it sounds like.
00:14:31
Sammi
So she got thrown into that, and they're like, we're going to make an example of you and make you the most toxic one. like
00:14:40
Sammi
Geez, like that's yeah, so she was set up for failure. um But amazing. I was so happy. Like, OK, I just want to read this part of the opening in the prologue when she said on his proposal day, former bachelor Jason Mesnick felt an irresistible urge to run to his balcony and wail like an old Italian woman at a funeral.
00:15:01
Sammi
When I heard like, I mean, I know she co-wrote it, but like it was good. Whatever. You know, who cares?
00:15:07
Sammi
ah When I watched it on TV, I thought he looked ridiculous. But now, as I sat in this place, I understood why he was moved to man tears. And, you know, like this whole beginning was great.
00:15:18
Sammi
And like and also I love that she explained her outfit.
00:15:24
Sammi
She was like, I was wearing a ridiculous cape. And thank God Chris Harrison was like, let me take that cape for you. Because it was so bad.
00:15:31
Steve
All the fashion stuff is so interesting, especially when she was just like, yeah.
00:15:34
Steve
So they were like, you can have two suitcases. And then some girls brought four anyways.
00:15:41
Steve
And then just just like and I love her strategy behind it. She's like, I'm not buying anything new. I'm just going to borrow stuff because that's silly. And then she was talking about how ah it was so important to have different accessories because you know throughout the course of the show, you know you would get like swag bags and people would get stuff, plus you you know fashion is
00:16:03
Steve
people are going to bring the same things, basically.
00:16:05
Steve
So she's like, yeah, it's all about the accessories and then like how you, you know, kind of add your own little flair to it. I was like, that's really interesting. And also some advice that more people should probably take.
00:16:16
Sammi
I mean, she I mean, it's not a surprise she packs like a model because like she's thinking about the like modular nature of her clothes instead of like entire outfits.
00:16:27
Sammi
And this was like before. I mean, this was kind of as they were getting into that, like, I don't know, like, you know, you you have an outfit and then you go turn around and like sell the look on Instagram and stuff.
00:16:41
Sammi
So you got to have a unique everything. This was like beginning age of Instagram. And this that was the other thing. This was like the beginning age of social media kind of taking over because this was like 2012, 2013.
00:16:56
Sammi
um The show it was kind of like on its way up but it was it was really been season where it's like Became much larger and a bigger deal.
00:17:07
Sammi
So she just kind of had like the worst timing ever
00:17:11
Steve
Oh, it was awful, yeah, yeah.
00:17:12
Sammi
Yeah, yeah, because I think I think other um other seasons she would have been like, yeah, like she would have been like a Demi or a Karen or you know what I mean, where it's like, oh, yeah, she's a funny, likable villain, like, totally nice and normal.
00:17:21
Steve
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. Yeah, I i could see it like a Demi fan person. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:30
Sammi
Yeah, like, they're really not that different.
00:17:31
Steve
And it no, if if things were totally different, if like the the current way that that Bachelor Nation accepts and rejects different people, I think she'd be a star right now.
00:17:45
Steve
like there's There's no way. like Everybody would love her. So it's...
00:17:48
Sammi
Yeah, it's just it's too bad, like justice for Courtney, but at least she wrote this great book, co-wrote this great book.
Fashion and Personality Insights
00:17:56
Sammi
it was interesting, too. So we find out um on the proposal that she and Lindsay had eight dresses to choose from to get like the same dresses. So like that is really surprising to me, too.
00:18:07
Sammi
You get to the very end and you only have eight dresses to choose from, you know.
00:18:11
Sammi
And ah she talks about how like she had to do her own makeup most of the time. And we do we do know that. um So it was like that then. It's like that now. Um, and yeah, it's interesting.
00:18:22
Sammi
Like she says, um, and at this point during filming, and this was like at the proposal, I honestly did not know I was going to be portrayed as the worst villain in bachelor history, AKA America's most hated.
00:18:35
Sammi
I genuinely thought I was being funny.
00:18:38
Sammi
I guess I found out the hard way that stand up comedy is not my forte.
00:18:43
Sammi
Which like I do think she's funny. it's yeah it's but but But it's like you know it's like you put the yeah you cut it the right way, you put the right music cue, and you can turn. like i just I just saw like a a clip, I think it was Hugh Grant on Jimmy Kimmel like for like Heretic you know he was on.
00:19:00
Sammi
And so they were like, OK, we want you to say these famous rom-com lines.
00:19:04
Sammi
um or no, famous horror movie lines. First, like a horror movie and then like a rom-com. And of course, he did it like the Hugh Grant way. He's like just what, you know, like all the twitchy whatever.
00:19:14
Sammi
Yeah. And it was great. ah Like he was like, hello, Clarice. You know, like it was is it was awesome.
00:19:20
Sammi
But it's like it's so true. It's like the way you deliver it and the way the music is and the way the lighting is and all of that, you know, is going to dictate the way i know I feel like I'm.
00:19:29
Steve
Oh, totally. That's like, there's this trend.
00:19:32
Steve
This was like 10 years ago or something, but people would take movie trailers for serious dramas or horror films and they would add walking on sunshine, the song to it.
00:19:41
Steve
And it would just completely change everything.
00:19:44
Steve
It's like, oh, it's a rom-com now? i Sure.
00:19:47
Sammi
So yeah, that's, I mean, that's like Courtney got that treatment. She got the, she got the walking on sunshine in a minor key treatment.
00:19:55
Steve
Yeah, and honestly, if if we could take that Courtney and just drop her into modern day, I feel like she would be like a Maria-style person from Joey's season.
00:20:04
Sammi
Yes. Yes. She's I don't think she's different from Maria either. i and And that's the other thing. And even like, you know, like Tayshia was more strategic. Right.
00:20:14
Sammi
And she did a lot of the same things that she didn't she didn't like cut people down as far as we I mean, she had like little jokes and like Barb's here and there because she's like very clever.
00:20:24
Sammi
But again, it could just be the way that they cut it and delivered it. She could have been, you know, saying this, you know, whatever. But she was like, she was one of the people that I noticed from early on was like, yeah, it's like, these women don't even want to be here.
00:20:37
Sammi
They're not like being strategic. Like, I'm getting time and like, Maria, same thing, you know, Corinne, same thing. It's like, and Demi too. It's like, that was... You know, it's like you're you're surrounded by women who aren't taking time to like go approach the bachelor and spend time with a one on one.
00:20:52
Steve
yeah, it's ridiculous Mm
00:20:55
Sammi
Like, why wouldn't you do that? That that's good, you know, strategy. And she was being honest about it.
00:21:01
Sammi
But yeah, so like right away, right in the prologue, we first of all, she establishes that like she is and was hot shit, you know.
Ben Flajnik and Relationship Doubts
00:21:10
Sammi
It's like, oh, yeah, Jesse Metcalf and Adrienne Grenier.
00:21:13
Sammi
Oh, also, by the way, I did not know that Ben's last name was pronounced Flannock until I rewatched the season.
00:21:19
Sammi
and I was always saying, like, Flagnock.
00:21:22
Steve
That's what I would say, too. Yeah, I was like, oh, wait, yeah.
00:21:24
Sammi
Yeah, it's Flannock. Ben Flannock. I was like, oh, as soon as I heard Chris Harrison say it within, like, the first minute of rewatching the season, I went, wow.
00:21:34
Sammi
And I watched this entire season when it happened.
00:21:37
Sammi
And I 100% forgot what.
00:21:39
Steve
You know how I pronounce Ben's last name?
00:21:43
Sammi
Yeah, finding Nemo nerd. ah
00:21:47
Steve
i like Everything I heard about Ben, like I was either getting like secondhand embarrassment or I would get like heart palpitations because it upset me so much.
00:21:55
Steve
like And she's so generous and kind to him.
00:21:58
Sammi
She's way too nice to about him that I mean, this was yeah.
00:22:00
Steve
Oh my gosh, especially in the end in like, in like the, the epilogue and everything.
00:22:05
Steve
And you know, when, when she's wrapping up that final chapter and she's just like, I just hope that one day I can, I can find a man that I can love again the way I love Ben. I'm like, he sucked.
00:22:15
Steve
He just sat on his laptop. He cheated on you 19 times. And he knows every word to finding Nemo. That's so weird.
00:22:23
Sammi
He sucks, yeah, he sucks. um Yeah, so any yeah, and so she she's kind of like reflecting on these past relationships right in the beginning. um And also she says nice things about Chris Harrison, which I mean, I'm sure he was a machine, um but not fine tuned enough for this day and age.
00:22:41
Sammi
um But yeah, so it's like, yeah, they get done they get done um filming, you know, like they do the proposal, they get done filming.
00:22:47
Sammi
Ben does that like, I love you, but oh, just kidding. I'm actually going to propose to you. And she gets like the Neil Lane stuff and whatever. And um yeah, so and then she's like immediately like, I don't know if this is like and you can see it.
00:23:02
Sammi
It's not. At one point it's strategy, but you can tell near the end and she talks about it in the book and you can see it in the season where she's like, I'm not sure this is real or good or how I feel anymore.
00:23:15
Sammi
And like she was honest on the show and she talks about it in the book and they align perfectly.
00:23:21
Sammi
um But it's like right after um like yeah they they like leave and he's like chummy with this like producer person and then yeah they start talking about like um yeah finding Nemo and stuff and he's like yeah we just like hung out like during you know filming and whatever and She got a weird feeling about it.
00:23:42
Sammi
She got a weird vibe about it.
00:23:43
Sammi
And I ah understand and identify with that vibe. And yeah, it's like, but she wanted to ignore it because it's like, hello, we just got through this big thing and like now we're engaged and we're at the end of this whirlwind romance where like nobody pooped and then everybody pooped.
00:24:01
Sammi
You know, now now all of our poop is normal and which we'll get into.
00:24:05
Steve
Yeah. I mean, listen, Ben cheating aside and just, you know, all around just being kind of a selfish prick. The whole Disney adult thing is a nonstarter for me.
00:24:16
Steve
I would have walked out of the honeymoon at that point.
00:24:17
Sammi
Like, listen, yeah, I mean, I don't personally want to be with a Disney adult.
00:24:23
Sammi
um i do I don't fault anyone for Disney bounding. I get if you worked there and you've got like a link to the place.
00:24:33
Sammi
And I have friends who go regularly. It's just not for me.
00:24:37
Sammi
It's just not for me. you know If you went to that one like Nintendo place in Japan all the time,
00:24:39
Steve
It's a non-starter for me.
00:24:46
Sammi
Okay. You, you went to like Legoland a lot. Like, all right.
00:24:50
Sammi
But like Disney, not sure. Not sure.
00:24:52
Steve
I just, I don't like, I don't like heat. I don't like crowds.
00:24:57
Steve
And I don't like having my Achilles tendon being smashed into by a stroller repeatedly.
00:25:02
Sammi
So true. So true. Yeah. Like, yeah. So not not for me, but, you know, it's yeah.
00:25:08
Sammi
And I totally get that. Like that. but We didn't have the terminology for it 10 years ago. But like so she says the second night we all watched or the second night um we all watch Finding Nemo together.
00:25:19
Sammi
This was her and like the this producer, this couple that worked on the show. um I was horrified to learn Ben knew every line, which he recited during the movie.
00:25:30
Steve
Which that is, that is unacceptable.
00:25:30
Sammi
The boyfriend. Yeah.
00:25:32
Steve
I'm sorry. You you don't get to do that. That doesn't, no.
00:25:37
Sammi
I mean, sometimes if I'm watching Mean Girls, I'll do it. OK, or clueless. But it's also with someone who has seen the movie before and I'm watching it casually.
00:25:46
Sammi
And a lot of the times I just do it when I'm alone.
00:25:48
Sammi
I'll be honest. OK, but I'm not going to do that if it's your first. I might get excited. I'll hold I'll hold back. It's like that guy that was at the Wicked movie and he filmed himself and he's like, I'm going to be brave enough to sing.
00:26:00
Sammi
Here I go. I don't even know if that was rage bait, but it pissed me off so bad anyway. It probably was rage bait, but um yeah. So she said, the boyfriend and I kept looking at each other across the room and rolling our eyes, but Ben and the girlfriend seemed to be having a grand old time.
00:26:14
Sammi
Sensitive Ben admitted to crying while watching movies on the road together. That's fine. um But he said, but she said, I did not like the fact that he was watching movies with her at all. I agree.
00:26:23
Sammi
The crying is fine. The watching movies like, yeah, during like this, but yeah, it just feels weird. The whole thing felt weird.
Courtney's Background and Career
00:26:31
Sammi
That would make me feel strange.
00:26:33
Sammi
um Oh, yeah. And wait, what did who did he say? had um She had a great body and the best boobs.
00:26:41
Sammi
um Yeah, just so strange. um So yeah, let me see.
00:26:47
Sammi
Oh, yeah. And um also, let's see. What was it? There was like a Kurt Russell mention. I'm trying to find it.
00:26:55
Sammi
um See he was quite the ladies man. Oh, yeah, her dad was roommates with Kurt Russell when he's starring in Disney movies Yeah, which is which is something she's got she's got like interesting lore.
00:27:00
Steve
roommates and Kurt Russell, yeah, I partied with him. That's just wild.
00:27:07
Sammi
That's the thing. She's like an interesting person She has a loving interesting family and she yeah, she's done a lot and experienced a lot I mean that was part of the thing where it was just like I She is so far beyond these other women because she's just got like all this life experience and A lot of them are doing like middle school high school bullshit.
00:27:31
Sammi
Like I totally agree with her Yeah, he does sound like a train wreck good for you not staying with him and I think it's funny that I
00:27:32
Steve
Meanwhile, she like is on again, off again with the pool boy from desperate housewives. Like, come on.
00:27:41
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. My favorite thing about him though is, is like, he cheats on her repeatedly, but every single time she's like, are you cheating on me? He's like, yes, here's exactly what I did. Like he just like spills it, which is amazing.
00:27:52
Sammi
Yeah, that's true. He is honest. Well, and Adrian Krenier, too, was kind of like, you know, it's like, listen, I'm I am a very sensitive fuck boy.
00:28:00
Sammi
And she's like, OK, that's fine.
00:28:02
Sammi
It's fun. I'm having a good time. Yeah. But that like other guy like Chris was that who just came in and out also dead like she just like did not have any good long term stable relationship.
00:28:14
Sammi
So I get that she was like so interested in being on the show.
00:28:17
Sammi
She sees, you know, Ben's heart get broken by Ashley. And it's like, yeah, I like that. I like what I saw on the show. and And she only did the show because she was interested in him. I mean, there's a conversation. I can't remember what chapter in the next couple of chapters where she's talking about like the application process and um how it's like she like finished everything and went through the whole thing and did all the questions and whatever.
00:28:44
Sammi
And then almost backed out at the last moment. And I think it was Chris at the time who like was like, I want to get back together with you or whatever.
00:28:52
Sammi
And so she's like, OK. And then she like changed her mind again. And she's like, you know what, fuck it. I'm just going to do the show.
00:28:59
Sammi
And then and then Jesse Metcalf also like popped up out of nowhere. And then and she's like, I'm doing the show and he's like, oh, fuck, he's going to fall in love with you or something like that.
00:29:07
Sammi
And she's like, bye.
00:29:11
Sammi
And she also she's got a lot of like raunchy stories in here. So if you want like all the dirty deeds of all, I'm not going to talk about all of it on the pod, but I will tell you it is in there.
00:29:22
Sammi
It is in there. um She also has like her mom's advice on men.
00:29:27
Sammi
Which are yeah, I mean they're they're a little it's a little antiquated
00:29:32
Steve
Oh, just a bit. But I like the passion behind it.
00:29:35
Sammi
Yeah. I do like that nothing ah ever good ever happens between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m.
00:29:41
Sammi
um And marry someone who loves you more than you love him. Good advice. Good advice, I guess.
00:29:47
Sammi
um But yeah. Oh, yeah. And then there was like that other guy. What was the name? Jono?
00:29:52
Sammi
Is that how it's pronounced? Oh, my gosh. She talks about so many like she had a full dance card and she talks about all of it, which is really interesting. um Yeah, here's one of I did highlight one of the dated ah references.
00:30:05
Sammi
She says the popular guys at my school avoided me like Paula Dean at a Jay-Z concert.
00:30:05
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, Oh.
00:30:14
Sammi
I was like, well, true. OK. Yeah. And then she kind of talks about the start of modeling, like doing Abercrombie and Fitch. And, you know, we already we know that that was, you know, it's kind of a little shadiness going on at Abercrombie and Fitch in retrospect.
00:30:29
Steve
Oh yeah, which is great too.
00:30:30
Steve
Cause like this book came out and like, this feels like the canary in the coal mine for a lot of that stuff. Like that's the only ones they used.
00:30:36
Sammi
Yeah, she's like, yeah, so I was like pretty young, but they were like, do you want to get naked? And I was like, I guess so. And then they're like, we won't use these. And then they use them. And I was like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, of course, that's what.
00:30:47
Sammi
That's what I've heard. That's what that's what they say. You know, in modeling, if they say, oh, we're not actually going to use these, we're just doing we're just trying. So I'm just artsy. Yeah, they're going to use those.
00:30:56
Steve
Oh, they're totally gonna use them.
00:30:56
Sammi
so don't Don't do it unless you are OK with with that being everywhere. You know, um I also like that she ended this chapter with then I turned on my disk man and played Vanessa Carlton's a thousand miles over and over until I drifted to sleep.
00:31:10
Sammi
the most 2010-11 thing anyone could ever say.
00:31:15
Sammi
Yeah, it was really good. um Let's see. Oh, no, not 2006, 2005.
00:31:21
Sammi
Yeah, because this was like, or even before that, wasn't it? What year was it? Now I'm doing a bad job recounting.
00:31:27
Sammi
You need to read the book, everyone. It's a good book. This was like when she started modeling. So I guess it was, yeah, the early 2000s. Hello.
00:31:34
Sammi
Um, yeah, I was like, that's too late. Um, and then she talks about the Abercrombie and fit shoot. Okay. Oh yeah. This was interesting though. She said, I eventually realized that if you say no to nakedness, especially with Bruce Weber, you're pretty much done. So in the modeling business, none of the shots I'd done the few days before I made it into the catalog. Like we said.
00:31:53
Sammi
Um, yeah, then Chris comes back and duh, duh, duh, duh. But let's get into the bachelor stuff. I'm just trying to see if there's any other good, but she really does um talk about, you know, her modeling experience and all this interesting stuff she did before the bachelor.
00:32:07
Sammi
So definitely. um Yeah, definitely. interests Oh, yeah. One of my new best friends was Matthew, rich kid model whose claim to fame was making out with Britney Spears and her toxic video and dating C-list actresses like Minnie Driver and Selma Blair.
00:32:20
Steve
Also, Selma Blair and Minnie Driver are not C-list.
00:32:25
Sammi
That's why I highlighted it, because I was like, C-list. Not even 10 years ago where they C-list.
00:32:30
Sammi
Yeah, anyway. So that was a little that was a little, Courtney, that was a little mean.
00:32:35
Steve
Mm-hmm little caddy Courtney appreciate your honesty, but come on
00:32:40
Sammi
Yeah, she talks about, OK, Adrian. OK. And then, yeah. Oh, yeah, this was another one. um So this was about like Jesse trying to get back into her great graces when she was like dating Chris.
00:32:53
Sammi
And she goes, his persistence paid off. And by summer, I ditched Chris again. And Jesse and I were as hot and heavy as Elaine Bennis and the saxophone player. That was a dated reference even when she made it.
00:33:03
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. um But yeah. So so anyway.
00:33:07
Steve
There's so many of them too. It's like every three pages. There's just like, it was like dated reference.
00:33:10
Sammi
Yeah, I highlighted a few that I really liked. Yeah. um okay here's Okay, here's her advice though. All right, as we're getting into the the application process, I really liked this. She's like, how to get notice in the application. Send in your best photo, cut to the chase and save producers time by wearing a bikini in the photo. Probably true.
00:33:30
Sammi
um Be heartbroken, a good breakup story in which you've been dumped cruelly and callously helps your chances. Like I forgot about Lindsay's whole story, the like, welcome to dumpsville population, you what an asshole.
00:33:43
Sammi
That guy sucks. um Yeah, but ah but be ready for love.
00:33:47
Sammi
Nobody wants to date a sad sex. Say you've recovered and are looking for the real thing. This is all good advice. Still, show off your romantic side.
00:33:55
Sammi
Tell stories about the most romantic thing you've ever done, but don't lie. They will eventually figure that out. True.
00:34:01
Steve
They know everything.
00:34:01
Sammi
Toss around some cliches. They really like it when you say you want a good story to tell your grandkid someday or that life is better spent when shared.
Bachelor Application Tips
00:34:09
Sammi
Don't beg. That's unattractive.
00:34:12
Sammi
True. Yeah, she's so true. um But yeah, so basically, yeah. Oh, yeah. um So this was like the whole Jesse. So she saw like Jesse treating, I think. And then I know Jesse popped back up in her life. Yeah. So she she broke up with Chris. Then Jesse came back when she posted single. He was like, hello, what's going on?
00:34:36
Sammi
And then um and then yeah like he then he cheated. I Googled image Jesse and pictures instantly popped up on TMZ of him straddling some chick in a park. This is PDL, public display of lust, the caption said. Jesse Metcalf reminded us of his existence by tongue wrestling the skyscraper of a blonde in Venice Beach. The couple had a role in the green that left Jesse feeling a little too sexy for his shirt, apparently.
00:35:01
Sammi
Yeah, so then she was like, you know what, actually, I'm going to go on the show. And the and she like went, came back to them and the producers like, can you come in tomorrow? And she's like, yeah. Let's see. I think it's cute to the one of the things that's fun about this book is she does interspersed with um little clips from other people who are on The Bachelor, her parents, like her sister.
00:35:25
Sammi
So if you're looking for that kind of stuff, it is it is fun to kind of get other people's perspectives on the show and people who are in other seasons and who are painted as villains and things like that. So she got like it's more than just like her.
00:35:37
Sammi
And she does like bring in some little interesting tidbits here and there, although I think it could stand on its own without that stuff, too, honestly.
00:35:45
Sammi
um Let's see. Okay. Yeah. So basically she saw what happened to Ben. She like totally fell for him. um She's talking about like ah the whole, when we've talked about this in our Bachelor Nation episode as well, like the whole process of of applying and the way she describes it is the same that everybody else describes it.
00:36:06
Sammi
um But yeah. she talks about like the hiatus that she had because you know it's like everybody's got to leave their job for a certain period of time and her agent wasn't worried and he said I don't think it will help your career but it won't hurt it and she said foreshadow alert number three um and she made a pro and con list um based on ben's twitter And the pro was falling in love, making new friends, travel, fairy tale ending.
00:36:34
Sammi
Those are the good things that could happen. Cons, heart smashed into pieces, cat fights, isolation, lack of privacy, and humiliated on national television. And I think she achieved everything from every part of that list.
00:36:49
Sammi
So, you know, well-rounded, balanced, I guess. Not great. um But an experience you will never forget. That's for sure. um Yeah, she said, yeah, she and then she did like ah one last weekend thing with her ex, Chris.
00:37:05
Sammi
And it was like, you know what?
00:37:06
Steve
Oh, the Chris thing. I need to see a picture of this Chris guy. How does she bounce back to him like 300 times throughout the course of this book?
00:37:12
Sammi
Let me see if we can find that. Yeah. um She also, I think, did change some of the names. So I wonder if she changed his name because right.
00:37:19
Steve
Hmm Yeah, I think so but it but it's also funny cuz there's plenty of people too where She's just like I shouldn't say this person's name, but their name is this Okay Oh, yeah
00:37:21
Sammi
Didn't she change some of the names? Yeah.
00:37:29
Sammi
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, Ari got a really good mention later. We'll talk about that later. I was like, damn. um Oh, yeah. And this was kind of funny. And they made this like a like a oh, well, like twice.
00:37:41
Sammi
They made it seem like Courtney is so hungry for marriage. OK. And like it's kind of pathetic, you know, or like vindictive or manipulative. Or I don't know what they were trying to do with it.
00:37:53
Sammi
Right before she like went to the show, she did a shoot for Kay Jewelers and their Neil Lane engagement ring collection. like How weird is that, right?
00:38:04
Steve
That's bizarre, yeah.
00:38:05
Sammi
Yeah, and so in her package in the season, you see her in like wedding dresses and stuff. You know, and then, of course, on her hometown, which we'll talk about more later, they do this like, you know, oh, don't you want to get married?
00:38:19
Sammi
Which again, like wasn't her first idea. But they're like, no, let's do this. It'll look totally great. And then it's like, oh, she's just like so thirsty or what such a pick me or whatever they were trying to do.
00:38:29
Steve
It's just so weird.
00:38:31
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah, ridiculous. Um.
00:38:37
Sammi
OK, some of the limo stuff is so funny, and she like hated the women that were in her limo with her. And she's like, Monica, wearing a long purple ground gown was up first.
00:38:49
Sammi
She was a total dud.
00:38:52
Steve
And then when she's talking about those girls that like they got knocked off on the first night or something, but like they had like ridiculous names.
00:38:59
Steve
Like there was bacon.
00:39:00
Steve
Yeah. And a snowball and something bacon or something.
00:39:03
Sammi
Yeah, yeah, she said, yeah, she said, okay, yeah. Monica so ah said she missed her dog and that was the highlight. Anna Snowball, I'm sorry, she has the kind of name where you always have to call her the whole thing, was so smashed. She walked right past Ben, trying to be all sexy and mysterious, but she just looked lost. And I remember I watched that in the beginning because she was just like, huh? And then she was like,
00:39:25
Sammi
who walked in and I was like, is she going to come back? And Ben's like, ah and he's like, bold move, bold move, but then never ended up, ah you know, going anywhere.
00:39:35
Sammi
ah Of the three, Amber had the most personality. I didn't say it was a good personality. She told Ben she was the Baconator and asked him if he wanted a taste. He kissed her hand and told her she was delicious.
00:39:46
Sammi
I had a hard time watching this go down because I was already uncomfortable with the idea of any other woman touching or kissing Ben. Yeah. Um, yeah, this, this was also weird too. I didn't realize how much conversation they might have coming out of the limo. Like I always kind of thought it was brief. So it was interesting that like he asked her what school she went to.
00:40:10
Sammi
Like first thing, ah this was the weird thing. Like, yeah, this was another foreshadowing thing. um She said, yeah, I'll stop counting now. um But like he is I mean, the way she paints him, it sounds like he is a real like elitist and a snob and like a Disney adult should, in my opinion, not be acting like that.
00:40:32
Sammi
Just saying, just saying.
00:40:34
Steve
It's like, you you didn't earn this snobbery, sir. And it's it's just weird because it's like, I don't know, he sucks, but he doesn't suck in the way I think he should suck. Like, oh, he's a guy who owns a winery.
00:40:45
Steve
It's like, oh, you should be like really smart and pretentious in this way. But it's like, no, no, no, you've channeled all that into quoting Finding Nemo, you little weirdo.
00:40:54
Sammi
But he also like doesn't own a winery. He like rents space and and cultivates grapes. I don't know if he does now, but he didn't then.
00:41:03
Sammi
I don't really think he has much of a
00:41:04
Steve
Whatever happened, whatever happened to young Sonoma? We never got young Sonoma, his show.
00:41:08
Sammi
I know young Sonoma. That's also like quite cringe. He did get married like a year ago. I think that's like the newest thing that I heard about from him.
00:41:20
Sammi
um Wait, hold on one second. OK, wait, hold on. He's the director of business development at Force Brands. ah Their Linked ins are always the place you can find all this stuff.
00:41:32
Sammi
LinkedIn is the best. um Okay, so Forest Brands is the preferred strategic talent partner and recognized thought leader for the consumer economy. Okay, so he works for like an HR company, I guess, doing BD.
00:41:49
Sammi
And before that he worked for an SEO company.
00:41:53
Sammi
Ben, why are you trying to take our jobs?
00:41:55
Steve
Yeah, stop it, Ben.
00:41:55
Sammi
Ben, stay in your lane, okay?
00:41:58
Sammi
Stick to wine, jerk.
00:42:00
Sammi
um So he, okay, this is like really interesting. Okay, hold on. His LinkedIn is actually very interesting.
00:42:08
Sammi
I didn't realize he worked for Fernet.
00:42:13
Steve
Well, he did. Well, cause I know I thought he was just banging the, the sales rep.
00:42:18
Sammi
Was that Fernet or was it Mallor? It was Fernet?
00:42:20
Steve
Oh, no, no, it was for net. It was for net.
00:42:22
Sammi
Well, that's weird. Okay. Cause get this. Okay. Okay. Oh my gosh. Wait, I'm going to send you this link. Okay. You should all, everybody just look for Ben Flanagan.
00:42:30
Sammi
I mean, I literally just Googled him and this was like one of the things that showed up. Uh, his holy crap. Okay. Hold on. So he worked at Involve Winery. He was the co-founder, board of director, investor for Involve Winery.
00:42:44
Sammi
And that was that was just for like from 2008 to 2015.
00:42:50
Sammi
But what it sounded like, yeah, so it's he like he did sales and stuff. um But he didn't own it, um but it says he's a co-founder, but people said, but Courtney said in the book that he like basically cultivated grapes and he was like renting space.
00:43:08
Sammi
So I don't know, maybe that's a little um bit of puffery, who knows. But then he started going into this thing called Choose Your College. And he was a co-founder and salesperson for 12 years for a company called Choose your college, which I don't know what that's about.
00:43:27
Sammi
I mean, I could guess. And then he did, he was a sales executive for seven years for Native Spirits Limited. And then was an advisor for 21 Seeds, Inc.
00:43:40
Sammi
And that's a tequila. And then he was full-time senior community manager for Yelp, but he's got a lot of overlap. Have you noticed?
00:43:48
Sammi
um Head of marketing and business development for Voyage Foods. And then founder and winemaker for Return of the Rosé LLC from 2016 to 2023. Then he was a he's also an author for Frequent Flyers LLC, published children's books that introduced children to globetrotting at a young age. That's still happening. He's still apparently um a co-founder and investor at Fernet.
00:44:18
Sammi
And then he's also the founder of Flanagan Co, LLC, that's still apparently running.
00:44:23
Steve
Oh, this is interesting because it's not just for net because, because for net, this is the weird thing.
00:44:27
Sammi
For Net Francisco, yeah.
00:44:27
Steve
It's like most people think of for that. Yeah. They think of like for net Bronco. Cause that's just like a brand, but this is just like, this was small batch for net that they made in San Francisco.
00:44:38
Sammi
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
00:44:39
Steve
So he like, he like hopped from wine to, uh, for net basically.
00:44:44
Sammi
for not, yeah. So yeah, for not Francisco for 11 years. And then like he said, he's doing all this stuff. And he's a co-founder of all these things.
00:44:54
Sammi
He's the director of all these things. And there's a a billion overlaps.
00:44:59
Steve
Mm-hmm That's wild.
00:44:59
Sammi
It's like he was doing six jobs at the same time. And like, I do a lot. Okay.
00:45:06
Steve
You do you do more than anyone actually Mm
00:45:06
Sammi
But I'm, but I'm like, how can you do this much?
00:45:12
Sammi
What are you talking about? I'm going to look into every single one of these companies. You bet your ass I will.
00:45:18
Sammi
um But like yeah, that's the this is what i this is my impression based on the
Bachelor Contestant Insights
00:45:27
Sammi
conversations that Courtney put in the book and like her interactions with them and stuff.
00:45:32
Sammi
I feel like Ben is trying to be interesting and and busy and important.
00:45:38
Sammi
And I think Courtney is just kind of like naturally interesting and important.
00:45:42
Sammi
And that's the difference between the two of them. That's my opinion.
00:45:48
Sammi
Maybe he is all that in a bag of chips. I don't know, but I'm just saying.
00:45:54
Sammi
I'm just saying. It's interesting. It's interesting. And I have, I have questions. And also why does force brands, why does their logo look like it says farce?
00:46:06
Sammi
It's a little, I would fix it a little bit.
00:46:09
Sammi
Uh, anyway, not a good mistake you want to make. Okay. So.
00:46:12
Steve
Yeah, not loving that.
00:46:14
Sammi
No, um but that's interesting. um Oh, and then I also think it's cute like ah Courtney put like the greetings that she was going to say to Ben in her in her journal and like there were a bunch of that were rejected.
00:46:29
Steve
Which is great too, because some of them are so bad and you got to wonder like the producers like, ah, I guess that's your best one you've got.
00:46:36
Sammi
Why did she do that?
00:46:36
Sammi
Yeah, yeah. The search is over. um If you need saving in there, I'm your girl. Just give me a look and I'll scoop you up and swoop in. Yeah, I think she did a good job.
00:46:48
Sammi
She was just like, I have a crush on you. um And that was true. So it was like, it wasn't bad.
00:46:53
Sammi
um Oh, and then, yeah, this was interesting, too. It's like, oh, yes, Samantha, you give Samantha's a bad name. OK, she was nasty. She was mean like the whole time.
00:47:02
Sammi
She was a chihuahua. That is true. um oh A tiny little pageant queen from Pittsburgh asked me about my dress. I made the mistake of being honest. I told her it was Dolce and Gabbana, but didn't have time to clarify that it was busted and marked down before she cut me off and stared.
00:47:17
Sammi
Oh, Dolce and Gabbana. Like I was some sort of big shot. Like that's the problem. Like and I get this because like someone said this to me like the other day like ah like you're you You were just talking about it like a lot of the things you to kind of like Seem like you were like really talking about like talking yourself up You know what I said?
00:47:37
Sammi
I i shared 20 10 to 20 percent of what I do OK, and if that's talking it up, I don't know.
00:47:43
Sammi
I'm just being honest. I literally was just bidding things in naturally in conversation.
00:47:47
Sammi
And sorry if that sounds like I'm bragging. OK, I just do interesting shit.
00:47:53
Steve
Sorry, I'm interesting.
00:47:55
Sammi
So, you know, I feel like I i feel i I understand Courtney in that regard, where it's like if she's just sharing real shit about her life, it sounds like she's
00:48:03
Steve
Also, she asked, what is she supposed to say? Oh, it's from forever 21. Like, are you supposed to lie?
00:48:07
Sammi
Right. It's like she's just you asked a question. She answered it just because she's good. She's like resourceful. Doesn't mean you have to like come for her about it's so weird. Like, you know, it's like sometimes like I've i've said to people who I've just met, I'm like, I'm not going to tell you most of what I do because it's going to sound like I'm making it up. So I'm just not going to tell you.
00:48:28
Sammi
um I love how hard Courtney came for Emily in this because it's funny. The first time I watched the season, I liked Emily and now I hate her. I hate her with a passion of a million burning sons.
00:48:38
Sammi
I think she's absolutely one of the worst people to have ever been on The Bachelor. I think she's nasty and mean and rude and and a bad person.
00:48:48
Sammi
um So I love that she was like Emily O'Brien, a stringy haired PhD candidate.
00:48:54
Sammi
citing epidemiology, kept giving out hand sanitizer and talking about sexually transmitted diseases. Yeah. And that she was like, she and Casey B were talking major so shit about Brittany Shriner, a woman who brought her grandma to meet Ben, making her an early target and an outcast.
00:49:09
Sammi
I was like, good for you for telling that that happened.
00:49:13
Sammi
um Jenna Burke also, I think the over analyst, the blogger got a lot of shit for being on the show in the time that it happened. And I didn't remember that, but like so bad that I think she shut down her website.
00:49:28
Sammi
Yeah, which is wild.
00:49:29
Steve
that's wild Yeah, exactly that's how you do it
00:49:30
Sammi
But she you know, she had some interesting, um you know, rendezvous, rendezvous is
00:49:39
Sammi
Yeah, that's how you say it, right? Yeah, exactly. Technically, that's how you say that. Rendezvous. is um She rendezvous with ah some interesting people after the show. So I think she had a good time. But it's interesting. I think people really it's funny because I thought she like made a bigger impression than she did.
00:50:01
Sammi
Um, but she really wasn't on the show that much, but for some reason, like I remembered to her too. Like when I saw her, like she left an impression in my brain. So I was like, wow, I thought she was on the show for longer.
00:50:14
Sammi
Um, but she really wasn't. She kind of like sabotaged every chance she had at like getting any kind of time on the show.
00:50:23
Sammi
um What do you think about some of the other women that kind of like started at the beginning? Like I'm trying to think of some of the other ones that she mentioned. I'm like looking through the pages. I kind of I remember Jacqueline, even though she wasn't like she didn't get anywhere, really, but I do remember her.
00:50:38
Sammi
Was she on like bachelor pad or something?
00:50:40
Steve
I think she was on bachelor pad.
00:50:41
Sammi
Yeah, because I feel like I like I remember her like was Jenna on bachelor pad or was she just like that memorable?
00:50:48
Sammi
I didn't think she was.
00:50:48
Steve
and I don't know. I don't think she was either. No, no.
00:50:51
Sammi
Okay. I'm going to look her up while you share your thoughts.
00:50:54
Steve
Yeah, I, it's funny because my biggest takeaway from this whole thing is like, there's so many people that I didn't remember, except I was like, Oh yeah, you're the one with the thing.
00:51:04
Steve
And like, she, she kept referring to someone as like, there's like a girl from Texas and she's like, all right, Texas.
00:51:09
Steve
And then she was talking about like how to host your bachelor watch party.
00:51:12
Steve
And one of her things was you're not going to remember anyone's name. So your best bet.
00:51:16
Sammi
Yeah, that was Rachel's advice. Yeah.
00:51:20
Steve
She's like, you just, you need to just make up nicknames for everybody, which is funny too.
00:51:24
Steve
Cause when she's going through, she's like, and this girl, I just called Texas and this girl, I called this.
00:51:29
Sammi
Yeah, because that's what I would do, too.
00:51:31
Sammi
Yeah, it's like, how are you going to remember everybody?
00:51:31
Steve
Oh my gosh. Same thing. Yeah.
00:51:34
Sammi
OK, yeah. So Jenna was literally eliminated week two. This is her wiki. This is her fandom wiki.
00:51:40
Sammi
OK, Jenna Daniel Burke was a contestant on the 16th season of The Bachelor. She was eliminated in week two.
00:51:52
Sammi
But for some reason, I do remember her, which is just so wild because she was not even on the show for like five seconds. This is so strange.
00:51:59
Steve
That's crazy. Oh my gosh.
00:52:00
Sammi
But the first night was wild. Like everybody got super drunk. um I also like that she shared that Lindsay had permanent eyeliner tattoos.
00:52:12
Sammi
Oh, I also found Lindsay's. Did I tell you that I found Lindsay's LinkedIn?
00:52:18
Steve
Did you really said that to me right now?
00:52:19
Sammi
Yeah, hold on. Let me see. wait Let me find it again. um
00:52:23
Steve
I love that we just, we're just creeping on every one of them. What are your latest career moves? Lindsay from the bachelor.
00:52:27
Sammi
Listen, listen, I'm just saying. Well, I mean, if you don't want people to know, don't have a publicly available LinkedIn. I don't know.
00:52:33
Sammi
It's not like I connected with her. I'm doing anything with it. um But she works for like some A.I. Company.
00:52:40
Steve
Oh, don't they all.
00:52:40
Sammi
um Bridging the gap between human potential and A.I. and recruitment. Ask me how humanly is revolutionizing hiring?
00:52:49
Sammi
She also looks like totally different. She kind of got Instagram face.
00:52:55
Sammi
But which is weird, because like a year ago, she didn't interview. And I mean, maybe this is just like an overly face to picture. I don't know.
00:53:02
Sammi
It just looks like I mean, she listen, she's in the right place because it it's giving uncanny valley to me. But she worked in the same place for 15 years and she just switched jobs.
00:53:16
Steve
I love creeping on people.
00:53:16
Sammi
She was the director of business development for Harvey Nash. This is all publicly available information. It's not like I'm doxxing anybody. This is on LinkedIn.
00:53:23
Steve
No, no, she wants us to ask her how humanly is revolutionizing hiring.
00:53:25
Sammi
Um, but she, maybe I will, perhaps I will, but I, I, I, maybe she was like, maybe she, maybe there was like a layoff.
00:53:29
Steve
That's what it says. Maybe I will too.
00:53:35
Sammi
I don't know. Um, cause she was like in the same place for a long time.
00:53:39
Steve
Yeah. 14 years, of six months is a very long time.
00:53:42
Sammi
Yeah, that especially in this in this days and ages.
00:53:46
Sammi
um Yeah, so interesting. Anyway, um yeah, because she was posting about Harvey Nash as much as like, yeah, nine months ago. And then it was just like, um let's see, when did she the end of an era after an incredible almost 15 year journey? What a ride it's been. Well, no, it looks like she left on her own terms. So, yeah, she plays 660 people in new roles.
00:54:13
Sammi
OK, she had a she had a good she had a good stable job. Lindsay was like the most normal person on the show, for sure.
00:54:20
Sammi
Watching it back to I'm like, Lindsay is so she's like too normal for the show. Her family's too normal. Like she's.
00:54:26
Steve
Oh, I love that stuff too.
00:54:28
Steve
It's so funny to me when you see someone on the show, it's like, you're never going to make it.
00:54:31
Steve
You're a normal human.
00:54:32
Sammi
Yeah, I mean, but she did. I mean, she made it really far. She made it to the final two.
00:54:35
Sammi
But like she was like the most normal, like even keeled, level headed, like so seemed like I mean, like I'm dogging on her right now, but I'm joking.
00:54:46
Sammi
Like she's she's like a totally normal. It seems like a lovely person. I know she did end up saying some things about um like the like manipulation and and things like that that happened in in filming and editing.
00:54:59
Sammi
I haven't gotten a chance to watch any of her interviews, but if I do have a chance before um our next episode, I'll definitely share more updates. But um but anyway, I just wanted to i wanted to share some of that stuff.
00:55:13
Sammi
But I thought it was funny that Courtney's like, yeah, she's got permanent eyeliner tattoo.
00:55:18
Sammi
Like she gave us like these little tidbits that are like so interesting.
00:55:21
Steve
Just like, I love it. They're just like, it's, it's not even like, it's not super. cat It's just like a ah a little jab, but also it's like informative at the same time.
00:55:31
Sammi
Yeah, it's just a fit well, and it's like it was really in vogue in like the early 2000s and it did come back.
00:55:31
Steve
It feels better. I love it.
00:55:36
Sammi
Some people are doing it again, which is surprising to me.
00:55:39
Sammi
um Someone just I watched some tick tock where someone's like, I'm so glad I did not do microblading because ah that was only popular for a couple of years. And can you imagine having tattooed eyebrows on your face?
00:55:52
Sammi
Like, sorry, no offense.
00:55:57
Steve
I'm just like, I mean, it's a huge commitment.
00:55:58
Sammi
No, yours fit your face, yours fit your face.
00:56:01
Sammi
If you had like little eyebrows, that would look so scary.
00:56:04
Steve
Could you imagine me with little, little baby?
00:56:07
Steve
No, I got a big old, like, like two dead caterpillars.
00:56:07
Sammi
No, no, I would cry.
00:56:11
Steve
That's if I had anything smaller than these, I'd look ridiculous.
00:56:14
Sammi
One of these days, you should like put foundation on them, or you know, like cover them up and like pencil them in.
00:56:18
Steve
Wow. Like I'm a drag queen. Yes.
00:56:21
Steve
This is where we're gonna do this.
00:56:22
Sammi
And do like the 90s Pam Anderson, you know? Yes.
00:56:26
Sammi
I i would love to see it.
00:56:28
Steve
There are still women that are like between your age and my age that are suffering to this day from over plucking in like the early to mid 2000s.
00:56:36
Sammi
Yeah, I was always petrified of that because I mean, I've got a natural unibrow, so like I need to like keep it in check.
00:56:44
Sammi
But there was a time that I was so i started getting over wax and over tweezed, and I had to just break up with the person who was doing my eyebrows. And then I like so kind of went too far in the other direction for a minute, and then I went, you know what?
00:56:58
Sammi
I have eyebrow blindness. Um, I am not afraid to admit that I have eyebrow blindness and, but the good thing is they just look good and I don't need to do anything to them except for keep the unibrow at bay.
00:57:09
Sammi
That's all I need to do.
00:57:10
Steve
That's all you got to do now.
00:57:10
Sammi
That's literally it. So, so now I've stopped talking with them anyway. So now you know, my eyebrow journey.
00:57:14
Steve
No, I and I, in case any of our listeners are wondering, listen, I should say viewers, because if you're listening, you can't even see by dumping.
00:57:20
Sammi
If you're listening, I'm sorry.
00:57:22
Sammi
You gotta come watch us on YouTube and check out our eyebrows because we both have, I think good eyebrows.
00:57:22
Steve
Uh, i like do I do nothing with these. Yeah, I do nothing with these all-natural.
00:57:30
Steve
There's no plucking, there's no manicuring, it's just...
00:57:32
Sammi
So you never have to deal with the in between space, not enough Eastern European going on.
00:57:35
Steve
No, no, no, no, just...
00:57:41
Steve
God has blessed me, I know.
00:57:41
Sammi
Lucky, lucky. OK, anyway, so ah what an interesting episode. OK, this is good to how to get noticed by the tabloids.
00:57:53
Sammi
This was another like little tidbit.
00:57:56
Sammi
Oh, also, I want to talk about but right before that, she talked about um the people that she kind of was like drawn to at the beginning. She was she gravitated toward raspy voiced party or Jacqueline Schwartz.
00:58:08
Sammi
My hair curling buddy, Kacey Steemer, I mean, she loves Kacey.
00:58:12
Sammi
Kacey's her BFF. She says only nice things about Kacey the entire time in the house and out.
00:58:18
Sammi
um And beautiful blonde Rachel Trueheart. And i for I like as soon as I saw Rachel, I was like, oh, yeah, I remember Rachel because she had the bangs.
00:58:27
Sammi
like I'm like fashion bangs.
00:58:32
Sammi
KCB, Nikki, Monica, Patch and Queen Samantha and Emily were forming their own pink ladies gang. ah Blakely, who at 34 was a senior citizen in bachelor years, and Lindsay, who rarely spoke to anyone, were lone wolves.
00:58:44
Sammi
The rest, frankly, were floaters, not really a blip on the radar. I kind of i kind of missed Anna Snowball. At least I remembered her name. It was such a good ending. But yeah, so she's like, how to get noticed by the tabloids. Release a mugshot, but only if your hair looks good in it. um Overcome adversity or tragedy. Ashley fraer Frazier was an orphan. Sarah Herron only had one arm. Car accidents, diabetes, and dumped at the altar all worked too. um Have a weird job. Chantel Newton didn't even come close to getting the guy after two tries, but because she ran a funeral home, she nabbed magazine spreads and even got a book deal.
00:59:17
Sammi
ah Be sexually ambiguous. Many former contest contestants have been dogged by gay rumors. ah Keep everyone guessing. It adds to the fun. ah Well, you know, sometimes, you know, it doesn't help your case because you're a stalker and you're weird.
00:59:34
Sammi
I'm talking to one person in particular.
00:59:34
Steve
It's true. One person, one particular bachelor man.
00:59:37
Sammi
Only one. Colton, ah anyway, flaunt your virginity. Sluts are a dime a dozen.
Bachelor Show Quirks
00:59:44
Sammi
This is such antiquated stuff, but it is true still on this puritanical show.
00:59:45
Steve
we love the Virgin.
00:59:47
Steve
It's well, the thing is, it's like the bachelor is so puritanical and moralizing that like it's still true on the show.
00:59:55
Steve
Like they love, they love a Virgin. They love a Virgin.
00:59:58
Sammi
she I mean, Sean, yeah.
00:59:58
Steve
Or if you're Ari, you love dating a born again Virgin.
01:00:03
Sammi
um I forgot he was a born again virgin.
01:00:06
Steve
That's like the lamest thing ever.
01:00:07
Steve
What is Jesus like reconstructing your hymen? Come on.
01:00:13
Sammi
I like that I just let you say the most heinous things and that I could just look good in comparison.
01:00:19
Sammi
She's like, well, Sammy didn't say that. ah
01:00:23
Steve
What I'm here for, Sammy, to make you look good.
01:00:24
Sammi
ah But yeah, so yeah, no problem. Oh, the other thing about like Chris being the worst was that he was like a raw vegan and Courtney was like, I totally love it.
01:00:34
Sammi
I'm like, Courtney, what are you doing? That's that's miserable.
01:00:36
Steve
Yeah. So, uh, I can't, I could not eat like a bunny rabbit.
01:00:41
Steve
That that wouldn't work for me.
01:00:42
Sammi
Yeah, yeah, that's so bad. um Yeah, some women write. Oh, yeah, at least this. Oh, yeah. At least she really liked to. um She was the personal trainer, right?
01:00:52
Sammi
um Bagels with peanut butter bananas was quite popular. Others were making themselves mimosas. Yeah, she kind of she gives us a lot of like the minutia, which is really which is really fun and nice.
01:01:05
Sammi
um Let's see. um Oh, yeah, this is. Oh, go ahead. You were going to say something.
01:01:10
Steve
Oh, the the only thing, the the other thing that's just popped in my head, but I love the, they're just like little production insights and they're almost like throwaway things, but they're things you would never think about. And you're like, oh my God. And the thing that stuck out to me was like, there's in most instances, there's no way for these people to work out.
01:01:30
Steve
And they're all like either like super muscular fit or whatever. So the way that they would find ways to exercise is so funny.
01:01:38
Steve
They're just like, yeah. And then we would just walk down to the end of the driveway and back a hundred times because that's all that we could do.
01:01:45
Sammi
Yeah, I like that Courtney equated it to yard time like they were in prison.
01:01:48
Steve
Yeah. Like they're in prison and which it totally makes sense, right?
01:01:51
Sammi
Yeah, she's like during our yard time we did this. I was like, oh, my God. Yes. OK, this is interesting. So she talks about how like they all came for Blakely really fast. And that was with that other girl. What was her name? The one that was like all over Blakely night one. And then they like.
01:02:09
Sammi
They got into it later.
01:02:09
Steve
Oh, yeah, I can't remember neither.
01:02:10
Sammi
I can't remember her name, but anyway, she talks. But yeah, basically they were like then they became like enemies. But all these women were like like Blakely got the first rose really quick because she like made out with Ben in the pool or something.
01:02:24
Sammi
And then people were like, she's so blatantly fake and overtly sexual. And I hate her.
01:02:29
Sammi
like so annoying. um And then there was like so there was a date with um with Courtney, like early on, the one on one. And ah Casey answered the door. And so she read it and she goes, Courtney, let's spin the bottle.
01:02:42
Sammi
And and Courtney said, how that taste coming out of your mouth, which is apparently a quote from the blind side, which I've never watched, which I am proud of.
01:02:49
Steve
No, ah which this is the other thing, too. You talk about like dated references and I'm just like, what?
01:02:57
Steve
She's like a quote from my favorite movie, The Blind Side. Everybody knows this. I'm like, I don't think everybody even knew it back then.
01:03:01
Sammi
she but that's the thing that's Courtney I mean like we can get on Ben for quoting Finding Nemo but obviously Courtney likes references and I mean I also I love a reference but I wouldn't put those in a book because or say them on a show because as soon like it's gonna be old by the time the show airs so it's like you unless it's like a timeless reference that like a lot of people will know.
01:03:22
Sammi
like It's going to you know it's goingnna like make you look like really creaky.
01:03:27
Sammi
right But she also wasn't thinking about that. That was just her default state.
01:03:30
Sammi
So like she's just saying the thing that she's thinking of.
01:03:33
Sammi
And apparently, after she said that, um what Casey said, like vinegar, like that's what it tasted like coming out of her mouth. And and she's like, oh, OK. So she had a comeback.
01:03:44
Sammi
So that's good. But then what happened was they cut that part out.
01:03:50
Sammi
And so it just like made her look meaner, you know.
01:03:52
Steve
Yeah, it's just look like an asshole. It's great. Yeah.
01:03:54
Sammi
And then she and she also like apologized to Casey. But like, of course, we don't see that. Right.
01:03:59
Steve
Now, why would we see that?
01:04:00
Sammi
And then Casey like told everyone like, oh, my God, she's such a bitch, you know.
01:04:04
Sammi
And then and then, yeah, apparently everyone was calling Blakely like horse face and a slut and like
01:04:12
Steve
What? She's just so mean. It's like, what are your little horse face slot?
01:04:17
Sammi
It's like terrible.
01:04:19
Sammi
And Courtney was even like, well, I did call her horsey, but it did not air. I'm like, oh, God, you know, it's like, but did they were she's admitting it.
01:04:24
Steve
But again, she's she's honest. Like she did not have to say that.
01:04:27
Sammi
Yeah. But they were all being like so nasty like to each other.
01:04:31
Sammi
Like it's just like you can tell this was just like a toxic house the whole time. um Also, I didn't realize there was like that one song that kept playing throughout the entire season.
01:04:43
Sammi
And it was like Ben's like like theme song.
01:04:48
Sammi
ah What was it called? Shit, um David Gray, This Year's Love.
01:04:54
Sammi
Yeah, that just like kept playing.
01:04:57
Steve
Well, listen, yeah I mean, you pay for the rights for something, you might as well use it, right?
01:05:00
Sammi
That that song played. like six or seven times during the season. It was like a ridiculous amount of times.
01:05:08
Sammi
And I did not notice it until watching it now and watching it in quick succession. And I'm like, oh, my God, I get it. The song. um But yeah, so let's see.
01:05:21
Sammi
um But yeah, they had a good they had a good time. They they love power bars and Mariachi L. Bronx and the song sleepwalking.
01:05:29
Steve
That's a good thing. It's just like, well, why, why do you love him? Well, we both, we have a lot in common like power bar. what I like power bar.
01:05:35
Sammi
yeah we like power bar um
01:05:39
Sammi
She also really liked his hair, and which is funny because a lot of people hated Ben's hair. I have no opinion of his hair one way or another, but um a lot of people hated his hair, which is also like seems very like old fashioned.
Courtney's Book and Honesty
01:05:50
Sammi
It's like, like um Tuck just told me he was like, he was in like quick trip the other day, like, you know, picking up food and stuff for for his job.
01:06:00
Sammi
And like, so he's like working and this like old guy comes up to him and is like about time to cut that hair, right?
01:06:08
Sammi
I was like, who the fuck?
01:06:12
Sammi
I was like, you know what I would have said? And I said a lot of mean things after that. I was like, let me at him next time. Next time, keep one of these in your pack back pocket.
01:06:20
Steve
Don't talk to my beautiful boy that way, grandpa.
01:06:23
Sammi
What I would have said is, oh, we got to call the nurse. He's out again. He's out again. He got loose. The memory care facility is looking for you.
01:06:32
Sammi
because you must not have a functioning brain if you're going to talk to somebody like that.
01:06:37
Sammi
There must be something wrong with you.
01:06:38
Steve
oh Don't be a dick.
01:06:40
Sammi
Anyway, sorry, no offense to people in memory care because you're all probably way nicer than that asshole.
01:06:47
Sammi
um But anyway, so she talks about she gives 10 fun facts about Ben's hair, but you'll have to read it to find out.
01:06:53
Sammi
And it has an answer key as well.
01:06:56
Sammi
ah it's It's a true false.
01:06:59
Sammi
Um, but yeah, she had a good first date with him. Everything went well, you know, uh, whatnot. Let's see. I know she doesn't. I mean, she was like kind of like hot and cold about Casey.
01:07:11
Sammi
Um, I think she just like didn't like that. Casey was like too nice. She, I think she just thought it was like fake, which I get it.
01:07:21
Sammi
Um, but she goes, at least Samantha little Chihuahua always running her mouth at the cojones to insult me to my face.
01:07:30
Sammi
And apparently she said, like, there's Courtney the model eating another salad. Like, shut up. Just let her eat a salad.
01:07:36
Steve
I don't know if he had a dick.
01:07:37
Sammi
She's not hurting you. Like, no wonder she was mean to you guys.
01:07:40
Sammi
Like, if that's the way you were talking. Like, I'm glad she was, no, I'm not glad she was mean to you.
01:07:46
Sammi
She's also not glad she was mean to you. Um, but yeah, she also talks about all the things. So when she was like mad or mean, and then she said, I apologize, but you know, this is what happened. Um, oh, and then, yeah, so, oh yeah, she interrupted. She interrupted ah Lindsay at it on a date. And she goes, um, despite trying to respect the girl's wishes that I keep a low pro profile, I needed to have a one on one chat.
01:08:10
Sammi
So I interrupted Lindsay, whose face was now as orange as a construction cone from all of the free bronzer. I apologize to both of them, but Lindsay didn't seem to care. She made sink faces here and there, but for the most part, to her credit, she stayed out of the drama so far. ah Ben read my note out loud on camera. I was mortified, but should have known better. Nothing was private on the show. On the cover I'd written, roses are red, violets are blue. I like you a lot. I hope you do too.
01:08:34
Sammi
um Yeah, and oh, that's so, yeah. um Dear Ben, thanks for the nice date last night. I woke up feeling happy and wanted to write you a love note. I could see you being my husband. There, I said it, it's out there.
01:08:45
Sammi
But luckily it never made it on the air. um So that was something that we didn't see. um Let's see, yeah. Everybody was so mean to Blakely. I like literally don't get it.
01:08:56
Sammi
um But she said, rumor had it our cast was the drunkest the producers had ever seen. like the next page so like if that tells you anything I think I think it really was um let's see oh she talks about the cliches we love so much she does have a good kind of drinking game in here um where it's like anytime someone says journey or process ah insert name through me under the bus I feel like my wall is up um I'm falling in love with more than one woman this is the hardest decision I've ever made in my life I just don't see him with her.
01:09:25
Sammi
You haven't seen the last of me um and to take a drink. And there's a lot of them ah take a drink. ah But one of my favorite things that she talks about is like is like that nobody pooped for like, I don't know, like half the show a long time.
01:09:40
Sammi
Like we thought that, you know, Sam's poop baby was bad. This sounds like it was potentially longer, just as long, if not longer.
01:09:48
Steve
Oh yeah, this is and this is like a massive poop baby among several people too. like this is Everybody was poopy pregnant.
01:09:54
Sammi
Yeah, it was. Yes, it was so bad.
01:09:59
Steve
That's the most disgusting thing I've ever said, by the way. That's...
01:10:03
Sammi
I don't know if it was, but maybe top five.
01:10:06
Steve
No, you're right. Top five, baby.
01:10:10
Steve
There'll be a TikTok montage of like, here's the worst thing Steve has ever said.
01:10:15
Sammi
Cancel him, cancel him.
01:10:18
Sammi
He's the worst person ever.
01:10:19
Steve
All the born again virgins are going to come for me and cancel me.
01:10:23
Sammi
Hey, as long as it's not, you know, like it I don't know why this made me think of it. I do watch Kyle Proos videos. Have I sent you any of Kyle Proos videos?
01:10:30
Steve
No, I don't know who that is.
01:10:32
Sammi
OK, so Kyle Proos does this series ah how to piss off men, um and it's really great. It's like he's got this list of all these things that you can say to like make a man feel insecure. He's very good at it.
01:10:43
Sammi
um And then sometimes people use them on him, like different ones. And he's like, oh, oh, like. You did it. um But he also had this like weird beef with furries like a couple years ago.
01:10:56
Sammi
um Well, a couple years before that. So it's like every once in a while he'll he'll kind of it'll like re emerge and he'll get voicemails from people just growling at him and he'll like play all the growls that he gets.
01:11:09
Sammi
um And listen, I have nothing against furries, especially all the good work that they do on our internet. um But ah yeah, what I'm saying is as long as you don't start a battle with furries, you're like good, because like, you don't want some people like randomly growling in a in a voicemail.
01:11:24
Sammi
Like it is kind of like some of them are like kind of silly or like not intimidating, but some of them were actually kind of scary.
01:11:31
Sammi
I'm like, I don't think I would like it if somebody left voice messages ah growling on my phone.
01:11:36
Sammi
I think that would freak me out. OK, anyway.
01:11:38
Steve
Yeah, it would definitely freak me out.
01:11:39
Sammi
Um, yeah, so let's see. Oh yeah, this, this was a cute part too. So she's talking about like, um, what this was when they were at the Fairmont. Um, this was like not that far into the journey. This was when they were at San Francisco and she was like working out in the gym and she was like, I checked out this cute guy and then realized it was Ben. That was cute.
01:11:59
Sammi
See, that's the thing. She was really genuinely interested in him. Like nobody can say like when people are like, she's just trying to win, you know, like she's just trying to win the game and she doesn't actually care about Ben.
01:12:11
Sammi
I'm like, that's not true. Like even watching the show, that didn't feel true. It's like she's literally the only one that's like making an effort. How can you say she doesn't care about him?
01:12:21
Sammi
Like she and the bullshit that she put up with afterwards shows that she like cared about him way too much. um and he did not deserve it. So I couldn't believe, yeah.
01:12:32
Steve
no, she was yeah all things considered like she definitely
01:12:36
Steve
I mean, she's she's honest and she's a straight shooter, but she gives him
Gender Dynamics on The Bachelor
01:12:40
Steve
a lot of like grace that he probably doesn't deserve.
01:12:44
Sammi
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, the other thing, and i I'm looking at the that one date that like Emily went on where she like went up the the Bay Bridge, which that would have been cool.
01:12:54
Sammi
like I would have done that. um But I didn't realize that until Courtney brought it up too, that like Ben had all of these like like risky dates, like all of these daredevil dates.
01:13:07
Steve
what And it was totally selfish too, right?
01:13:09
Sammi
Right. Yeah, that's what she was saying. Like, you know, because there's always like a couple of those. um But so now I have questions about Jen because like Jen had a bunch of those and it seemed like she didn't want them.
01:13:21
Sammi
But if Ben had direction and was allowed to say like I want these, that's kind of interesting.
01:13:28
Sammi
I mean, wouldn't surprise me like based on, you know, Gender inequity on the show that Jen didn't have as much of a say as like Ben did that's probably ah part of it, but um Yeah, she's just like you didn't even give us a lot of chances to like be cute and relax You just like wanted to do all the daredevil dates.
01:13:34
Steve
Oh, sure. No say at all. Yeah.
01:13:48
Sammi
I was kind of her take on it.
01:13:49
Sammi
I thought that was interesting um But yeah, um Yeah, there's and and then I actually don't remember. I don't even remember how his name was pronounced.
01:14:00
Sammi
Was it Callen or Kalen? K-a-l-o-n on Emily season?
01:14:05
Sammi
Apparently, I don't remember him.
01:14:07
Sammi
I have to watch that season now too. I gotta pay for another season.
01:14:08
Steve
No, i'd have to I'd have to look him up on the on unlike the Bachelor Wiki, because I have no idea.
01:14:11
Sammi
I even did. And I was like, I still don't remember him. So it's kind of like, I remember Michelle. Like, you know what I mean? I remember like the women, the female villains, and I remember some of them.
01:14:22
Sammi
but Like I remember Chad, you know, but I don't remember a lot of the men who are villains on the show, unfortunately.
01:14:29
Sammi
I mean, I remember the women because they're interesting and funny. So I like, and I would hang out with them. So I don't know. I just, um, but he was just kind of like, listen, you know, if you're a villain, people pay attention to you.
01:14:42
Sammi
So, and that's true, but I was just funny.
01:14:44
Sammi
I was like this 10 years later, I'm like, I do not remember you. I also did not remember Chantal at all. Um, the, the, you know, funeral home lady, funeral director lady.
01:14:55
Steve
No, I didn't remember her at all. And I was just like, wait, who is this person? And I got her confused with the taxidermy girl from a few years ago. And I was like, no, that's different, but equally interesting to me.
01:15:06
Sammi
Yeah, I like that. Well, she she was cool. um Yeah, this was interesting because it's like she was on Brad season, which like what a stinker of a season. And then she comes back to Ben season and it's like she could have come the first week.
01:15:21
Sammi
So I feel like this was a producer choice to bring her in later. Like that seemed fishy to me. And she had talked to Ben, um but she did not make it beyond this. But it like, God, the best part was Elise getting so upset and going, who is she?
01:15:38
Sammi
She even laughed up about it at the women tell all like I was like that is a good they like replayed that moment so much because she had so much and she was like a pretty chill person on the show and she got like so upset about this. oh hey she
01:15:53
Sammi
um And like and Courtney freaked out And to be fair, I do think she had a reason to freak out because I do think Chantal was closer to Courtney's level than the other women on the show.
01:16:05
Sammi
I think they all felt threatened because she was she is like stunning. Like, you know, but yeah, it was just like bad timing didn't work.
01:16:12
Sammi
Didn't, you know. And then, yeah. And then Courtney was upset with Ben and she said, we actually have a connection and you just blew it. And she was crying and she said she looked like a wet rat afterwards.
01:16:26
Sammi
Yeah. um Yeah. And Elise was like, why are you here? You don't even know Ben. um And Jacqueline's like, so now you're a part of us. And Rachel is like, why do you think you deserve to be here?
01:16:36
Sammi
And it was like it was like this unifying moment. It's like everybody was mean to everybody else in the house. And then they were all like, actually, fuck this lady.
01:16:44
Sammi
But the problem is she left, you know. So she said like, yeah, they were.
01:16:48
Sammi
ah Courtney said they were my temporary dysfunctional family. Nobody messes with my temporary dysfunctional family.
01:16:53
Sammi
Okay, we have a common enemy now and her name's Chantel and we hate her for no reason, ah you know? And yeah, and then, but this was like, some people were so mean, like Nikki was really mean to her.
01:17:05
Sammi
um She's like, I think she's uglier in person.
01:17:07
Sammi
And was she the same one who said like, I think she's got like thick thighs. Like there's a lot of like fat shaming and like, yeah.
01:17:14
Steve
There's a lot of weird like they were really going in hard on each other but like in weird ways.
01:17:17
Sammi
And it's like, I mean, 10 years ago, yeah, that shit happened way more. I'm like, nobody would say this now.
01:17:23
Sammi
Like if they did, everybody would turn on them and be like, you are the nastiest bitch, you know?
01:17:27
Sammi
And so that's the thing. It's like Courtney didn't even say anything that was as mean as what everybody said about Chantal or Blakely.
01:17:35
Sammi
And I'm like, but you hate her for because she's pretty and confident. OK, whatever.
01:17:41
Steve
Yeah, weird, right?
01:17:41
Sammi
Like I got it. Like, yeah. Oh, and then this was interesting, too. Yeah. um Jacqueline was like, I think I'm getting dumped for a girl he's known for three minutes. And then Erica fainted twice.
01:17:55
Sammi
That was like such a dramatic.
01:17:57
Sammi
Yeah. And then we get to the chapter six and she goes, Casey B was the first one who figured out how to poo. But it wouldn't happen until we got to Utah.
01:18:07
Steve
Which is like isn't that that's like such a fun way to just frame it Hmm Yeah Powerful stuff
01:18:07
Sammi
And that was a while to get to Utah.
01:18:13
Sammi
It was the best first sentence. ah I had to reread it like three times because I thought it was so funny. um Yeah. So basically, yeah, she's like, we all have realized that we could like order laxatives.
01:18:25
Sammi
So we did. An animus. And she's like, and then we pooped and it was awesome. But then we started pooping too much.
01:18:35
Sammi
ah So that was that was really funny. So and that kind of like, yeah, it's like it kind of paints like the frazzled nature of everybody in a different light. You're like, oh, I get it.
01:18:47
Sammi
You all had to poop. It makes sense. You're going for each other's throats.
01:18:50
Steve
Yeah. Can you imagine like you all like you're sharing a boyfriend with 30 different women and everybody has to shit like that would suck.
01:18:56
Sammi
Yeah, so bad. Um, this is funny too. So they get to, yeah, they get to Utah and Ben rode up to them on a horse and she said, and expert equestrian Lindsey just about creamed herself.
01:19:10
Steve
But then, but then Lindsay got stuck behind her so then she couldn't she couldn't like show off her skills.
01:19:11
Sammi
She's like, it's my thing. Yeah.
01:19:16
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's like, yeah, she's like, yeah, she goes, I picked Romeo, the slowest oldest horse. Unfortunately for Lindsay, she got stuck right behind me on the trail so she couldn't show off her says he writing skills to Ben up ahead.
01:19:27
Sammi
Sorry. But this was when like she really showed off because they are like fly fishing and nobody's talking to Ben and she's like, and she says, I'm like her confessional.
01:19:35
Sammi
She's like, it's like these women aren't even trying. So I'm trying and I'm making the effort. So what's going on with that?
01:19:42
Sammi
um Yeah. And then, oh, yeah. And then there was like the this group date and there was like a pool thing. And yeah. And and Blakely was like trying to kind of, you know, edge in on on Ben and it it worked. And then she was upset about KCB because she disappeared with Ben. And so she just sulked in the hot tub or whatever. No, she sat by herself and sulked, but the other girl sulked in the hot tub.
01:20:09
Sammi
Um, but yeah, this is interesting because Samantha got sent home, but it was kind of like random. Um, but apparently it was because she was like talking shit and, of and maybe she had a crush on one of the crew members.
01:20:23
Sammi
Yeah. And, and Courtney was like, another one bite bites the dust and like, nobody liked that either. So. So that's not great. So she's just another bad joke.
01:20:34
Sammi
and Didn't work. And then she starts getting into the whole winning thing, which talk about dated like.
01:20:39
Steve
Oh my God. I know. Talk about dated references. Like and and she was just like right before I went out of the show, Charlie Sheen, blah, blah, blah.
01:20:44
Sammi
And so cringe, yeah, I was like, oh, God.
01:20:49
Steve
And I was like, Oh God.
01:20:50
Sammi
And she's like, so I said winning, and I remembered that, too, before even watching the show, I remembered her going,
01:20:55
Steve
Ah, tiger blood, winning.
01:20:57
Sammi
Winning, winning, yeah. I was like, oh, God.
01:21:00
Sammi
She might as well have said like Coney 2012 at this point, like, you know what I mean? It's like, geez.
01:21:07
Sammi
Like the, like, yeah, crusty, dustiest of memes. Yeah, so, but, but she's like, but it's, I mean, it was her, it was her strategy, I guess, to be winning, but they I was just like,
01:21:20
Sammi
Yeah, that's like one of those things where it's like if you don't say it like within a week after it happens, you're going to sound so old. It's just not going to work. um And then, yeah, so so there was so there's a lot of like women who were trying to take Courtney down early on. Emily was the one who stepped in shit the most often.
01:21:41
Sammi
She like just kept trying to get Courtney off the show. And I remember when I watched it because I kind of liked Emily when I first watched it, I was like, stop doing that. What are you doing? That's terrible strategy.
01:21:50
Sammi
Just shut your mouth. He likes her. And you're going to get you're going to get axed off the show.
01:21:56
Sammi
And I did know that at some point I knew that Courtney had won before the season ended because I was reading Reality Steve pretty religiously at that point.
01:22:06
Sammi
So I did know that.
01:22:08
Sammi
um probably about midway through the season I knew. And I was like, because I don't think I looked at it right away. And then I was like, Oh, I don't like this. Like this is not great for for anyone.
01:22:20
Sammi
um And so it's like I felt that dread and he was like, and she's being painted as a villain. So like the villain's winning. And I was like, Oh, God, that's not good at all. You know, so
01:22:30
Sammi
That was, yeah, and I remember as every week went on, I was like, Oh, no, it's really gonna happen, isn't it? He's not gonna be wrong. He's gonna be right, you know. And I felt like devastated. And now I'm just like, Yeah, none of you tried hard enough.
01:22:44
Sammi
You're all terrible people. And why did you spend a second worrying about Courtney? Like if you had worried about yourself even a little bit, maybe you would have gotten farther, but you didn't. And that's why she won so clearly.
01:22:56
Sammi
um Yeah, but Casey really stood up for Courtney the entire
Courtney's Group Dynamics
01:23:00
Sammi
time. Like she was like, she's not a fake person. She's totally real. like Um, she has friends and, you know, Emily's like, she just has like a bitchy, callous, rude demeanor.
01:23:10
Sammi
And she's sweet to, and then she's sweet to Ben. She's not sweet. She's actually kind of mean in case he's like, she's sweet to people who are sweet to her.
01:23:17
Sammi
So we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Okay. Bye. Yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, like this was, was this around the same time that Emily called her like a psychopath or something like that or a sociopath or something?
01:23:31
Sammi
Yeah, like, OK. And um but around the same time, yeah, um ah Courtney was like, I want to rip her head off and verbally assault her, which like, fair enough. um Yeah, let's see. um Oh, yeah, this was like, oh, this is funny, too. um Casey would like ask questions throughout like the entire season. She like made herself like the, you know,
01:23:56
Sammi
like Casey definitely reads like as team building exercises and like I'm a team building exercises person so no hate to Casey like I'm the same I'll be like okay everybody here's a question that we can all think about because I need a direct a direction to this conversation it can't just can't just sit here and stare at each other I need to we gotta to talk about something
01:24:14
Sammi
um So, she asked the question, how much are how many of you have learned more about yourself in the past two weeks and in the past two years?
01:24:21
Sammi
And she's like, me? And then Courtney's like, not me.
01:24:24
Sammi
I don't know. Like, I'm aware of myself.
01:24:27
Sammi
And and and and then, yeah, people were like mad, you know. um Yeah, Emily.
01:24:32
Steve
Yeah, that she was just honest and not.
01:24:33
Sammi
Yeah, Emily was first, which set me off. Should I have raised my hand like a good girl? Probably, but I was so furious about Emily's gossiping.
01:24:39
Sammi
I was itching for a fight. KCB was offended that I thought she asked a stupid question. I think most people who would have gone through this process would agree with you, Emily said to KCB. I laughed at Emily. What are you laughing at?
01:24:50
Sammi
She sneered. You, I said calmly. You know, I have my guards up with you. You talked bad about me to Ben tonight. What are you talking about? She said, I'm up on it. Courtney, we're not in fifth grade.
01:25:00
Sammi
Come on, let's be adults. Oh, yeah. After I told her she was the one acting like a child, she again told me I had a personality disorder. Our fight was getting so ugly, several of the other girls got up and walked away. And then, yeah, but Ben picked Emily last to teach her a lesson, I guess, and dumped Monica.
01:25:18
Sammi
um Oh, interesting. Yeah, we didn't really see Monica on the show. I forgot she said she was like a big troublemaker behind the scenes. Interesting.
01:25:26
Steve
Yeah. And then she just didn't get a ton of camera time, which is weird, but sure.
01:25:31
Sammi
Yeah. And then Courtney, this is when they go to Puerto Rico and Courtney's like, I was just there two months ago after he asked for that. It just looked like so bad. um And then apparently, oh, Emily snuck up right behind her right after this and whispered in her ear, you're such a fake bitch with your fake hair and fake boobs.
01:25:48
Sammi
And she goes, Emily had fake boobs, too.
01:25:52
Sammi
And um yeah, so. Yeah. But she said she apparently said, yeah, you better check yourself, bitch. No wonder your boyfriend dumped you, which like good for her, honestly.
01:26:05
Sammi
She's like, it's a music I said in my whole life. It's like she said you had a personality disorder and you were a fake bitch with fake hair and fake boobs. I would say something like that, too. I'm not above that. um But she again felt bad about it.
01:26:17
Sammi
So she's better than me. um Yeah.
01:26:18
Steve
It's just the fake boob thing too, which she got dinged for like a million times. She's just like, I just, you know, I felt like I was flat chested. I got like a modest C cup and people then yelled at me and called me a fake titty bitch all the time.
01:26:30
Steve
It's like, who was doing this to you?
01:26:32
Sammi
She also like looks yeah like it's not like she looks like like a disproportionate or odd or anything.
01:26:38
Sammi
She looks like totally normal and also gorgeous. Like, yeah, that's insecurity.
01:26:43
Sammi
That's called insecurity.
01:26:44
Steve
It is just, the it's the wildest thing. Like I was just like, what is going on?
01:26:49
Sammi
Yeah, so weird. um ah Yeah, more talk about poop. um Oh, yeah, when they were in ah Puerto Rico, she got her laxatives.
01:26:59
Steve
Got to get those laxatives, baby.
01:27:01
Sammi
Yeah, and then yeah, and then they did like yeah like this group day and stuff. um And yeah, oh my gosh, this was wild. they They did that like baseball thing in San Juan in 100 degree humidity. And so she's like, yeah, there's a lot of times where we had to like run off and go to the bathroom and then come back out during the game.
01:27:25
Sammi
which is like so fun because it's like you see this like you know produced thing and you know she's like uh yeah i ran like a maniac across the hotel suite with my butt cheek squeezed to find the most private bathroom and she's like i was my butt was making such loud noises that i was dying laughing and crying out in pain at the suit
01:27:49
Sammi
Yeah, so like that's kind of great. Yeah, so um yeah, every time I went, I thought there cannot be anything else left in there, but there was.
01:28:00
Sammi
I'm sure the raw vegan eating did not help at all.
01:28:05
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. She's like, what if I pooped my shorts on the bachelor in front of 8 million viewers? I'd have to move to Antarctica and live with the penguins.
01:28:12
Steve
I don't know. I think she'd be a legend. I would be fine with her.
01:28:14
Sammi
I honestly, I honestly, maybe that would have been the redemption she needed. Made her look human when they were trying to make her look so bad.
01:28:21
Sammi
People would have been like, you know,
01:28:23
Sammi
But yeah, she's just, yeah, I think so.
01:28:23
Steve
Poop your pants on CV. That solves everything.
01:28:27
Sammi
But she was just talking about like how, yeah, everybody, everybody was like, you know, on each other's nerves and, and then like, Yeah.
01:28:37
Sammi
Oh, yeah. um And and there was like she wanted to be friendly with like Rachel and Blakely, but that just didn't work. Rachel was getting pissed off because she had PMS like it was just like everybody was in like a bad shape by the time they got to Puerto Rico.
01:28:51
Steve
Everybody was just going through it.
01:28:53
Sammi
It was like not good at all.
01:28:54
Steve
ah Part of me, I was just here.
01:28:56
Sammi
Yeah, I was just here and I was not pooping my brains out, but this time I am so very lucky for me. um Yeah, so. um Let's see.
01:29:07
Sammi
Oh, yeah, this was this was sad, too. So um let's see, where it was it? She went to the stairwell outside of Ben's room and she said, like, um I hope I'm aside for sore eyes, because after the date with Elise, his
Courtney and Ben's Relationship
01:29:20
Sammi
eyes are pretty sore.
01:29:20
Sammi
And she's like, I actually like to lease a lot. I don't know why I said that. I feel bad.
01:29:24
Steve
but but She just said it to say it.
01:29:24
Sammi
And she like helped us work out because she was a personal trainer. She's like, that was so mean. That was like not cool. um But yeah, she sees him like sitting and in like this or he sees her sitting this stairwell.
01:29:35
Sammi
They get wine. They go down to the beach. um And then, yeah, then there was some hanky, panky in the water. OK.
01:29:42
Steve
Insertion. Insertion.
01:29:44
Sammi
I'm not saying it, but she says it.
01:29:46
Steve
She says it. She says it in the book.
01:29:49
Sammi
And she's like, it was it.
01:29:50
Steve
I'm just doing the hand gesture for everyone.
01:29:53
Sammi
For anyone listening, she just made a lewd hand gesture.
01:29:58
Sammi
ah We're going to get demonetized when we don't make any money to begin with.
01:30:00
Steve
yeah Can they do that?
01:30:06
Steve
Is this, is this a demonetization?
01:30:07
Sammi
I'm just saying stop doing it. So anyway, um yeah, so this was interesting. They went like skinny dipping and, you know, did a little something in the ocean and she's like, I don't know, maybe it made it on TV. Just saying. ah um
01:30:23
Steve
like I like how they're like, they're like, yeah, so we banged in the ocean, but really he just popped it in like once. And then it was just like, no, it's like, what?
01:30:30
Sammi
Yeah. And she's like, well, you know, it the waves, the waves were tough. So anyway.
01:30:33
Steve
No, what are you going to do?
01:30:34
Sammi
Yeah, um but she but she was like, yeah, I don't know. He was listening to our song and he was thinking about me all the time. I can't believe I feel this way already so soon. You know what's interesting? When you watch this season back, at least for me, I feel like he gives the women absolutely nothing on camera.
01:30:52
Sammi
like he he He doesn't react differently. like ah You can tell he's into Courtney and stuff, but he also kind of gives Courtney almost nothing.
01:31:04
Sammi
Like until the very end, like until like the proposal and all of that and he gets a little emotional, like until then he's just like he's like very diplomatic. You know, he's like, wow, that's really great.
01:31:17
Sammi
It's so nice that you said that to me about me.
01:31:19
Sammi
I really like that.
01:31:20
Steve
No, he seems like a little robot boy. like there's He does not give a lot of emotion, ah which makes sense like when she describes how he is later as a partner off camera.
01:31:26
Sammi
So it's interesting. Yeah.
01:31:30
Sammi
Off camera. Mm hmm.
01:31:32
Steve
It's like, okay, all of this is lining up.
01:31:35
Sammi
Yeah, so it's interesting to me that he even said this stuff to her like it doesn't watching it back.
01:31:44
Sammi
I'm like he the what they edited and delivered to us. He didn't give any of the women like anything, you know.
01:31:52
Sammi
So if that's what you had to deal with and you were extrapolating and like, you know, to quote um crazy ex-girlfriend, like you're getting you're getting love kernels, you know, like that's what it felt like very love currently.
01:32:04
Sammi
Um, just not a whole lot.
01:32:05
Sammi
Um, but yeah, so let's see, um, keeping it real. I'm just looking through my notes. Um, Oh yeah, this was cool too. She gave production lingo, which I thought was interesting.
01:32:18
Sammi
The 10 one, the 10 two. Condescent has a tingle. The Condescent needs to go number two. Um, yeah, the name they had to call Ben in public was William.
01:32:30
Steve
They wouldn't like catch him in the airport or anything. What you think about Ben too is like the fact that he was so paranoid that like, Oh no, people are going to find me.
01:32:39
Steve
So I got to do all this stuff. It's just like, you're so, you're such a wiener. Like nobody cares. Ben just after filming.
01:32:46
Sammi
Like you mean after filming?
01:32:49
Sammi
Yeah, yeah, because like during filming, I get why they do that. But yeah, after.
01:32:52
Steve
Yeah. After filming.
01:32:52
Sammi
Well, he just he was just very much like, I am a celebrity now.
01:32:56
Sammi
I'm very famous and you cannot talk to me. And I'm going to go do the New Year's Eve show and I'm way cooler than you. It's just like so weird. um Oh, this was sad.
01:33:08
Sammi
This was around the time like that Casey started calling Courtney a black widow. Again, like not true.
01:33:15
Sammi
um And, you know, Nikki's like, um I want you to be with someone who's going to be there for you and give you 110 percent. And, you know, they were all just like being like so I don't know, so mean to her.
01:33:30
Sammi
um and This was ah another old reference now, Patty Stanger. She goes, Patty Stanger, the millionaire matchmaker would have ripped him a new one if he arranged any of these asinine dates on her Bravo show.
01:33:41
Sammi
That was like all the the daring dates and stuff. um But yeah, she got to do like this Mayan temple date or whatever. And then, oh yeah, Rachel told her about this witch hunt with Casey B and Nikki. And so she said, bye, can't stand you all but before she left.
01:34:03
Sammi
Um, this was kind of cool too. They like flew in a plane flown by Jimmy Buffett's personal pilot. That's kind of neat. Like I listen, I was not like a fan of Jimmy Buffett in any way, shape or form.
01:34:13
Steve
ah You're a big old parrot head, aren't you?
01:34:15
Sammi
No, I'm not. Not at all. But you know what's interesting? Apparently he and I heard this from somebody who worked for him. Uh, he knew every single person on his staff. He had like 200 staff members.
01:34:27
Sammi
He knew all of their names, who knew everything about them and was like, and took the time to get to know all of them and was very kind and very generous and treated everybody with lots of respect.
01:34:36
Sammi
One of the best people to work for apparently. So, you know, may you rest Jimmy? Um, so it's interesting. So that would be kind of a cool experience though, to be like, Oh, it was a personal pilot.
01:34:46
Sammi
Very fancy. um Let's see. Oh, yeah. Oh, this was interesting, too, when they get into the um fantasy suite stuff. um It was interesting to hear her talk about the things that she thinks like fell apart with like the other women um were not quite there in the book, but ah because um one of the things Ben says is like, oh, my dad, because like his dad died. And so like when he sees like inspiring things instead of like, oh, my God, he says, oh, my dad.
01:35:14
Sammi
But he's also like an atheist and apparently that like did not go over well with Nikki in the fantasy suite. So it's like that's one of the things that like, yeah, um did not go so well.
01:35:25
Steve
That's, that's so funny too. Cause I always think about this with fantasy suites. Cause obviously there's like the issue of like sexual compatibility, but then also you could finally talk about real stuff.
01:35:34
Steve
And what if like you really like someone and then all of a sudden they're like, I'm a hardline Christian Republican. And you're like, Oh no, like, right.
01:35:41
Sammi
Yeah, I feel like you should be able to pick up what they're putting down before that. And you'd think, but I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe someone will surprise you.
01:35:46
Steve
I, you would think so. I, but who knows?
01:35:49
Sammi
Like, yeah, it would be so weird.
01:35:51
Sammi
Like, I mean, there's like I mean, even there's some little things for me that are like kind of non-negotiables. Like, um I don't know, like if i if I was like about to marry someone and they said, like, I could never have a dog, I'd be like, well, we're not going to work.
01:36:08
Sammi
OK, do you know me?
01:36:09
Steve
Because Walter is a beautiful boy.
01:36:12
Sammi
Like, I just tried to steal my sister-in-law's puppy. OK, I'm trying to get as many dogs to my house as possible. I said, Ruby, do you want to get in the trunk?
01:36:19
Sammi
Come come to our house. Come have some play dates. You're adorable. I don't even care that you're teething and potty training. Get in the car. Get in the car. um You know, I'm like I, you know, heaven forbid whenever whenever it is that tuck passes, I might get an an obscene number of dogs.
01:36:35
Sammi
It might get really, really dark, really fast. was Way too many dogs.
01:36:38
Steve
yeah Yeah, that's, that's what you need to do. If there's a hole in your heart, you fill it with the animal of your choice.
01:36:42
Sammi
fill it with dogs until you can't breathe because you're kind of allergic to dogs and you still own them.
01:36:49
Sammi
um But they own you.
01:36:49
Steve
I mean, I'm allergic to cats and I have three, so.
01:36:52
Sammi
I mean, that's the thing, you know, it's like you got to you got to do that. You got to do that. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I would be fine with a cat. I mean, if my dogs didn't try to.
01:37:03
Sammi
Well, Walter didn't try to eat cats. I would I could potentially own one. But like, yeah, I mean, even things like that, like that small, I'd be like, oh, this isn't going to work.
01:37:13
Sammi
Like you will never have a dog like.
01:37:18
Sammi
that goes against who I am as a person. So I have to say bye, you know, or if like, I don't know, there's there's like certain things like that where it's or if it's just like we don't have one hobby in common, like like not one, like you don't like doing one thing together.
01:37:32
Sammi
That would be hard, but yeah, it's like those big things like, you know, politics and religion and like the way you want to parent or what, you know what I mean? Like these big life you, they were, if you want to be a parent, you know, it's like those kinds of things. Like if you don't see eye to eye on those, it's like yikes. And then you're in that far and you've been in this like romantic scenario and like you're all mixed up and it's your first time like getting to spend quiet time with someone like, I don't know.
01:37:58
Sammi
That's got to be a lot to think about.
01:38:00
Sammi
um But yeah, oh, God, she also oh well I'm not even going to say this Chris Brown reference.
01:38:07
Steve
Oh, that one, that was the one that maybe creates the hardest.
01:38:10
Sammi
Yeah, that was bad. ah You'll have to read the book to to find out. um But then she also talks about um ah Jimmy Buffett's personal pilot again back to L.A. because there apparently there was a hurricane headed to the island and they had to like get out really fast.
01:38:25
Sammi
um ah Yeah, so they had to leave Belize ah really fast. I think this was one of the reasons I wanted to go to Belize was this ah season.
01:38:34
Steve
Season of The Bachelor.
01:38:35
Sammi
Yeah, much like Banff when they went to Banff, I was like, I got to check out Banff and I still haven't been to either of those places, so I got to get my ass in gear. Let's see. OK, we get to the hometowns. All right. So, yeah, the interesting thing about the hometown is she basically like, oh, first of all, um they couldn't tell people like why there was a film crew. So they said, tell them she's filming a mayonnaise commercial.
01:39:04
Sammi
Which like, sure. I mean, it's believable.
01:39:07
Sammi
It's Courtney. ah She could be filming any kind of commercial. But I'm like, why a mayonnaise commercial?
01:39:11
Steve
Yeah, specifically.
01:39:12
Sammi
They're like, there's going to be a lot of white people here. So just tell them it's a mayonnaise commercial. and Yeah.
01:39:16
Steve
Yeah, that makes sense.
01:39:19
Sammi
and And yeah, they said, you know, don't worry about cooking any big meals. And then this is also sad because apparently this is during Halloween. And so her mom had to take all her decorations down. She was really sad about it.
01:39:32
Sammi
Her family is like adorable. um Yeah, but really, really ah sad stuff.
01:39:39
Sammi
um But yeah, let's see. Okay. Yeah, so she said she wanted to go um like, oh, yeah, ideal Saturday activity. OK, so she wrote these vows. Basically, there was supposed to be like this artist that she was going to work with and like commission a painting or something like that.
01:39:57
Sammi
And then they weren't available or they couldn't afford it or I can't. Now I'm trying to remember. I've got to find that again. You know what I'm talking about? It was supposed to be.
01:40:04
Steve
Oh, yeah, she was going to she was going to have like a painting done of Ben, ah but it was going to cost like a gajillion dollars and production wouldn't pay for it.
01:40:14
Steve
So she just made him like a little photo book thing.
01:40:16
Steve
And it was just like past, present and our future. We're going to name our baby forest.
01:40:22
Sammi
Well, that that happened later, the scrapbook happened later, because that was like that was like fantasy sweets or the last night or something like that.
01:40:29
Sammi
But she yeah, she wanted to go. She wanted to go to the farm where she wanted to get married someday. um But she didn't want to get get fake married there. She just wanted to go there. um And then, yeah, they're like, do you want to do fake vows?
01:40:42
Sammi
And she's like, I guess so. I don't know. um But she was. Yeah, the other thing she was trying to do is like get this this like person to paint something instead.
01:40:52
Sammi
And then it just like, yeah, it didn't it didn't happen.
01:40:56
Sammi
So then they had to like do this bow thing. And she was like. Okay, and she and she spent a lot of time like agonizing around the um the vows and stuff and Yeah, it just it didn't work um um mean Well, I mean it yeah it that's what happened the painting didn't work.
01:41:17
Sammi
Sorry. I was also reading this at the same time I want to do this guess who um I Don't know if you have ideas on this. I don't know if I do either. um On a hometown date this bachelor promised the contestants young brother that he would be back to teach him how to do things like throw a football When the show ended and he didn't pick the contestant the little guy burst into tears and asked if he was the reason why the bachelor didn't propose Guess who I Don't know maybe Brad I would assume but based on the time, but I didn't look I didn't look into it But I was like God, that's so sad
01:41:41
Steve
well I don't know. Yeah.
01:41:54
Sammi
Yeah, um I also i I don't know.
01:41:55
Steve
Brad makes sense. Yeah.
01:41:57
Sammi
Brad's just so flaky, like it would make sense that it was Brad and it was just recent, but ah at the time, but I don't know.
01:42:03
Sammi
I didn't watch those seasons. So I can't tell you. And I didn't like Google like Courtney's Secrets Revealed or something like that.
01:42:11
Sammi
Um, yeah, this was interesting too. They get to the vow renew or the vow exchanging thing. And one thing that's kind of interesting is she, this was like the day she didn't like Ben's hair. She said, he looked like Francine from those Arthur cartoons on PBS.
01:42:26
Sammi
And yet I was still very attracted to him. Um, I thought that was like a very
01:42:31
Steve
See, that's a good reference, I can get behind that one.
01:42:33
Sammi
Well, that's not old. That's like perpetual, in my opinion.
01:42:35
Steve
Yeah, Arthur is forever.
01:42:36
Sammi
So, yeah, Arthur is so forever. So unlike wishbone, unfortunately, because I bring a bushbone and people are like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, Walter looks like a big wishbone. That's how ah you have to know who wishbone is to have that reference make sense.
01:42:48
Steve
Yeah, he's a literary dog, come on.
01:42:49
Sammi
um Yeah. What's the sorry wishbone? Um, so yeah, at first when they were doing the vows too, she was like, is, are these real?
01:43:01
Steve
So are these legally binding?
01:43:03
Sammi
Cause it was kind of, and then he was like at the very end, he's like, if this was real, this is what would happen. But you can kiss if you want to. And she's like, OK. And then, yeah, there was, um yeah, she wanted to show him the her childhood home. And um oh, yeah, this was interesting. Like her dad shared some of his his takeaways from um from the day and all of that.
01:43:31
Sammi
He goes, I did think it was kind of odd that Ben asked me if I ever went skinny dipping in our swimming pool. Then Courtney told me they had gone skinny dipping in Puerto Rico, but not to worry because it had been shot from a great distance and you could not see much in the moonlight.
01:43:47
Sammi
Ben and I had a one on one discussion in the backyard. I could see he was truly smitten with Courtney and I told him that marriage is life's greatest gamble. I asked him, are you ready to make that bet, Ben? That was another clip that they used a ton on the show.
01:43:57
Sammi
They made it seem like he was like being like kind of a hard ass, but he like wasn't. I don't know.
01:44:03
Sammi
So weird. Yeah. And he answered, I'm ready to be in a serious, committed relationship. And Courtney goes, hang on. That doesn't sound like marriage to me. That sounds like dating.
01:44:13
Sammi
Because she's smart and she saw that's the other thing.
01:44:16
Sammi
He just thought she wasn't smart. because She didn't go to school and his mom sucks Fuck Ben's mom.
01:44:22
Sammi
She's the worst She's so miserable.
01:44:25
Sammi
Okay, we'll get to that.
01:44:25
Steve
Yeah. And ben Ben is a clown too, because yeah, like this is a huge hang up for him.
01:44:30
Steve
It's like, Oh, you didn't go to school. So you must be dumb. And I don't respect you. It's like, dude, she's smarter than you are. Shut up.
01:44:36
Sammi
Yeah, she's way smarter than him. um But, you know, that's why he has to co-own all those companies.
01:44:42
Sammi
That's why, because he's got to fill that void. But yeah, so she knew after the hometowns that Casey was going to be eliminated, because I mean, it makes sense, like they're the most different than like.
01:44:55
Sammi
And yeah, it was just like, are you going to take our little girl away to the big city? You know, it's like, oh, this is not going to go well, like.
01:45:02
Sammi
You two do not mesh at all. But she has like a freak out in the car and she's like, what the fuck happened? What the fuck happened? She's crying. It's like it is one of like the biggest like rejection reactions we've seen on the show like ever. um The most dramatic limo driving ever. And then this was wild. her Casey's limo driver dropped Casey off at Courtney's hotel on accident.
01:45:36
Steve
That's real nice. I love that.
01:45:37
Sammi
That sucks. That sucks so bad. So anyway, they're in Switzerland. It's the fantasy suite. There's just so much to talk about. Sorry, everyone. Well, hopefully, hopefully you find this interesting. Actually, I apologize for nothing.
01:45:48
Sammi
You're listening to us.
01:45:49
Sammi
And if you made it this far, great. I'm glad you're interested. um She talks about some very spicy bachelor fantasy suite and pre fantasy suite moments in here. And you can guess again, guess who? Well, I won't read these. um But she said show creator Mike Weiss once claimed that the bachelor has sex an average of three times per season and the action doesn't only go down in the fantasy suite.
01:46:18
Sammi
So she, she shares a little couple of blind items in here, kind of interesting. The one that was really interesting is this bachelorette contestant was such a slime ball. He hooked up with an X at his hotel right before hometowns.
01:46:31
Sammi
I don't know who that was, but that's interesting.
01:46:34
Sammi
um Oh, yeah, this was like, yeah, Nikki got sent home um and she felt like a fool and all that stuff.
01:46:42
Sammi
And um yeah, but I mean, at this point, Courtney was like, maybe I have it in the bag. It's really hard to say. um But then she met his mom, ah Barbara Babs Flannock.
01:46:58
Sammi
and Julia, his sister, um and she said they flew all the way to Switzerland to interrogate Lindsay and me on camera. They liked Lindsay, although I don't know, maybe they would have been as hard on Lindsay and hard to say.
01:47:13
Sammi
I do think Lindsay is more like um conventionally successful in a way that they can conceptualize.
01:47:22
Sammi
So they look at her and go, well, she went to school and she's she works at this recruiting for firm. and And they had like similar lifestyles like California horses was outdoorsy, whatever you know, and so like they were like, oh, yes, you are one of us, but you're like the ranch version version of us or whatever.
01:47:38
Sammi
Like, I don't know what the hell they thought.
01:47:41
Sammi
Yeah, like Lindsay's family was so lovely and so sweet, and they were really nice to Ben. They were super cool, very normal people. And Courtney's family was also very lovely and great. um But yeah, it was just like, I think Babs so was like, oh, Lindsay could be one of us.
01:47:56
Sammi
Like we can see her folding into the family.
01:47:57
Steve
Yeah. She did not see Courtney that way at all.
01:47:59
Sammi
And with Courtney, no, she's like, what do I even do with you?
01:48:01
Steve
She thought it was a total outsider.
01:48:03
Sammi
What do I even do? Did you go to school?
01:48:06
Sammi
Did you go to school? or You didn't go to school?
01:48:08
Steve
So you just stand around looking pretty.
01:48:09
Steve
Is that what you do?
01:48:10
Sammi
Yeah, like, what's your backup plan? You know, it's like, oh, my God, shut up.
01:48:15
Sammi
Like, you sound so oh miserable. um But yeah, so she so she kind of knew what Babs was like a little bit from TV. And she said she seemed snobby and uptight, the polar opposite of my mom.
01:48:27
Sammi
My mom can be tough, too, but she's always the life of the party to butter up Babs and Julia. I bought them gifts, a vintage leather bag for Julia's Vespa and a wine rack shaped like a bicycle for Babs. Those seem like good gifts, like thoughtful, you know,
01:48:40
Sammi
um But yeah, she liked she liked Julia, although Julia was like, you're a vegan weird. I was like, OK, just leave her alone. I mean, the raw vegan thing would be miserable, but like it's her choice, like whatever. um And then and then apparently, yeah, like they were setting up the shot. Babs said to Courtney, like, do I look OK? And she's like, yeah, you look great. And then like the camera started and she's just like, why did you go to college? What the hell's wrong with you, Babs?
01:49:10
Sammi
and Oh, my God, like so a unnecessary. ah sa um But yeah, so she yeah, she was and she apparently she called the hotel a dump and like, yes, she seems like one of those people that you just can't please like she's just always going to be miserable no matter what.
01:49:29
Sammi
Oh, this was it. um There was a it was in Zurich. It wasn't at the hometown. Sorry, I screwed that up um in Zurich.
01:49:38
Sammi
There was this artist that she knew named Andy Densler. and he painted her portrait in LA. And um he declined to paint Ben's portrait because they wouldn't pay for it.
01:49:51
Sammi
Courtney couldn't afford it, and he didn't need the publicity. So that's when she did the Leather Journal was then. So it was on it was when they were in Zurich. Sorry, everyone. I know all of you who also just watched the last this season from 11, 12 years ago
01:50:03
Steve
season 16 of The Bachelor, yeah
01:50:05
Sammi
are like, what the hell is wrong with you? Why don't you remember this? um So, yeah, that's what it was. um And then, yeah, she she had like pasted photos and she was like, oh, this is our future kids name and all that stuff, like you said. um And then they did a terrifying helicopter ride around the Matterhorn.
01:50:22
Sammi
and another picnic, apparently. late And um yeah, she gave him the scrapbook. She gave him a love letter and she said like something like felt kind of weird and off. And she was like, maybe he's going to pick Lindsay. I don't know.
01:50:37
Sammi
um And yeah, she goes, well, if you didn't know it by now or just skimmed over the prologue of this book, how rude. Ben and I were betrothed on November 16, 2011, after he called my dad and asked for my hand in marriage.
01:50:51
Sammi
um Yeah, so and she so he did ask permission, but like I don't think... Yeah, her dad didn't seem like that keen on it either. Like, something about this guy doesn't doesn't smell or right.
01:51:03
Sammi
um They were able to like tell some people, and they did like their happy couples and all that stuff, and um they had to set up...
01:51:11
Sammi
Okay, they had to set up email addresses. You're never gonna guess. what the email addresses were. You'll never guess, ever in a million years. I never would have guessed. Toots McGuderson and Mrs. Toots McGuderson.
01:51:27
Steve
Makes perfect sense.
01:51:28
Sammi
Like like you do Toots McGuderson and Mrs. Toots McGuderson. Yeah, which whatever. um And she's and it sounds like yeah, they they like sent cute stuff back and forth for a while.
01:51:42
Sammi
um But yeah, it was like quickly Ben was just like very interested in the fame of
Ben Post-Show Conduct
01:51:50
Sammi
And he also would like talk about other women's bodies like to Courtney in a way that was like very weird. um And then so then she turned the tables on him and he's like, oh, I actually see why that's gross and weird now.
01:52:04
Sammi
It's like, oh, really? Now you see it?
01:52:05
Steve
Now you see it, yeah.
01:52:05
Sammi
OK, thanks. Yeah. um But yeah, there wasn't a lot. I mean, there's not a lot to say about this stuff outside of like. He sounds insufferable to cook with um that. Like he knows everything about making food in a kitchen. Like that's the thing. you You look at his LinkedIn. I think a LinkedIn is someone's is the window to someone's soul. I really do. Like you look at my LinkedIn. I make a lot of sense. That's all I'm saying. You look at his LinkedIn. He makes a lot of sense like.
01:52:40
Sammi
Someone who thinks they need to be good at everything and doesn't want anybody else to be good at anything um and talks down to people who aren't good at things ah is the kind of person who would have five overlapping jobs and they're all co-founder.
01:52:59
Sammi
That's what I'm saying. The vibe is consistent.
01:53:02
Steve
Yep, that's fair. That's fair.
01:53:04
Sammi
That's all I'm saying.
01:53:05
Steve
No, he seems I would not be able to spend an hour with this man, let alone be engaged to him.
01:53:12
Sammi
He doesn't have the onion in his LinkedIn experience.
01:53:16
Sammi
OK, but I do. um Anyway, and then, yeah, he would always ah he he would use like all these like weird slang, like pull the trigger for throwing up and a dart for a cigarette and.
01:53:29
Steve
I've heard of darts before that's that makes sense
01:53:31
Sammi
Sure, he'd say BA instead of badass. OK, but the most cringy thing, did you listen to his rap?
01:53:37
Steve
No, I didn't listen to his rap. I thought about it though, cause she talks about it. She's like, you can look it up on YouTube. I'm like, I should look that up on YouTube.
01:53:44
Steve
And then I didn't do it. Is it that it's, it's gotta be horrible, right?
01:53:47
Sammi
I haven't listened to it. Let me see if I can find it. Hold on. Yeah. Cream dreams. It's called cream dreams.
01:53:58
Sammi
Oh, wait. Hold on. Oh, my gosh. Hold on. I think I found it. Oh, my God. I didn't. Oh, geez. This is OK. It's already cringe.
01:54:09
Sammi
I'll just tell you that much. um I got to turn. I got to turn the volume. Wait. Is the volume just like not working?
01:54:18
Steve
Are you not, are you not sending it to me? Is that no, I mean, I mean, like, so i I, I don't know if you're, if you're sound, if like your, your computer audio is part of the mix too.
01:54:20
Sammi
I will send it to you, but I don't know if there's any sound.
01:54:30
Steve
Yeah. Well, this is how the sausage is made folks here on the podcast.
01:54:33
Sammi
Wait, you could hear it and I couldn't?
01:54:33
Steve
That's no, no, no, I could, I can't hear it.
01:54:37
Sammi
I can't hear it either, is what I'm saying.
01:54:39
Sammi
Usually I can hear it. So anyway, whatever. It doesn't matter. It's fine. Oh, I see why. I see why I couldn't hear it. It's fine. um But I sent it to you. Yeah, now I can hear it.
01:54:49
Sammi
um Did you hear that? You didn't hear that.
01:54:52
Steve
I didn't, but I'm about to click this link.
01:54:53
Sammi
OK, that's good. OK, we're both going to watch this cream drink.
01:54:59
Sammi
We'll post it in the show notes, everyone.
01:55:06
Sammi
I don't think I can watch more than 10 seconds of this. I'm going to be really honest. It is so cringe. It is so cringe. It is worse than Courtney made it sound.
01:55:18
Sammi
is everything. OK, everyone, you need to watch this for a second. um There's one subscriber to this channel. It's got four and a half thousand views. um This is this is somebody who obviously tried to like who like unearthed it.
01:55:32
Sammi
And it's still on YouTube.
01:55:35
Sammi
And what the first comment is, after seeing this, I'm on Courtney's side. He's so nasty and creepy and a total pretentious jerk. I couldn't stand him before and he's even worse now.
01:55:48
Sammi
Oh, it's really bad. It's really bad. I watched like three more seconds and had to pause it. I cannot.
01:55:53
Sammi
I did. I did not make it past 27 seconds. I'm going to be really honest with you. So you're going to have to watch it on your own, but it is bad. It is really bad. It is very cringe. It is not funny or interesting.
01:56:04
Sammi
And he did this after filming.
01:56:07
Steve
Yeah, there's like Z tier dick in a box.
01:56:09
Sammi
Yes, it's like, yeah, it's it's incredibly unfunny, lonely island.
01:56:15
Sammi
It's really, really bad. um Yeah. So just so you know, that's the kind of thing that that we're dealing with. um But yeah, there was this rumor.
01:56:26
Sammi
So like they were in doing happy couples and stuff. This was before the show came out, all of that. And there was like a rumor that Ben was seen out like at a club or something like that kissing someone.
01:56:36
Sammi
And he To be fair, I mean, this is not I'm not defending him. He's trash. um But he did try to get out in front of it. That's what I'm going to say. He didn't admit it.
01:56:47
Sammi
The thing is, in this book, in the show, Courtney admits the things that she does.
01:56:51
Sammi
He's trying to get out in front of it and try to like front damage control and lessen the impact of the thing he did. And so he was like, just so you know, like it was just it's just someone I kind of knew and I give him a kiss on the cheek and whatever.
01:57:03
Sammi
And um that was all, and it's like from those photos, which I also haven't looked at, but I'm sure they looked bad.
01:57:11
Sammi
ah Now I'm like googling that too. um She's like, no, it was like pretty obvious that he was cheating. Like it it was not like up for debate.
01:57:21
Sammi
It was not like this questionable thing. It was like very clearly he was cheating. So. Yeah. And he's like, oh, it's an old friend, whatever. It doesn't mean anything, you know.
01:57:32
Sammi
And yeah, I don't know.
01:57:34
Sammi
I can't. Oh, wait. No, that's not it. um Or is it? Oh, maybe it was. Yikes. OK, if it's the picture I just saw, there's like no mistaking it, but I can't tell if that's Courtney or some other lady.
01:57:48
Sammi
It's hard for me to tell, but that's like a full on kiss if it is. But I think some of it got scrubbed from the Internet.
01:57:55
Sammi
Um, yeah, I think a lot of it got removed.
01:57:56
Steve
For sure. At this point.
01:57:58
Sammi
Um, but yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty bad. It was incriminating. And the thing was Courtney couldn't go anywhere. You know, it's like, and then once the show started airing and people started, you know, seeing her as a villain, she couldn't go anywhere without getting mobbed.
01:58:12
Sammi
She would get like paparazzi and stuff, you know, and she said, it was just like awful.
01:58:16
Sammi
And then, okay, this is also really funny. Um, cause like Ben obviously enjoyed every minute of like being famous.
01:58:22
Steve
Oh, he loved the fame. Yeah.
01:58:24
Sammi
Like it's so slimy. It's so gross. She goes, he was also tippity tapping away on his blog for people.com.
01:58:31
Steve
Which is also fucked up too, because like he had this like blog where he got to talk about bachelor stuff and then he would say shitty things, including things like about her, but he would never like share this shit.
01:58:41
Steve
He would just like smash that publish button.
01:58:43
Steve
It's like, dude, what are you doing?
01:58:45
Sammi
And listen, like I,
01:58:45
Steve
Stop being a selfish little prick.
01:58:47
Sammi
Yeah, like I know Ashley and JP didn't make it, you know, they didn't make it the whole way, but they they were together for a really long time. Right. And like and they ended on good terms up here. You know, what what it sounds like is they're like good co-parents and buddies and whatever ah now.
01:59:02
Sammi
And, you know, she kept comparing what was happening with her and Ben to like Ashley and JP because like Ashley was getting shit, which also like doesn't make any sense because Ashley was fine and normal and cool. And like, I don't know why the hell people are giving her shit.
01:59:14
Sammi
She's still one of my favorite bachelorettes of all time. And um JP was like, you know, fiance of the year and like just kept like he'd send her flowers and he and he had her back and he encouraged her and he was like, write or die for her. You know, it's like and Ben just could not be bothered to do the same for Courtney. It's just like, come on, what the hell's wrong with you? Like, that's like, that is base level. That is like bare minimum um thing that you should do for someone else.
Courtney's Public Perception
01:59:42
Sammi
Also, um Courtney starts talking about like the like the women of Bachelor Nation who talk shit about her outside of the show.
01:59:50
Sammi
One of whom was Trista. Pretty bad, too. A lot of slut-shaming, weird behavior, Trista.
01:59:56
Steve
A lot of, yeah. Well, and it's just like a lot of people were like, I don't know.
02:00:00
Steve
It's like they were clout chasing. They're like, Oh, here's an easy target for me. I'm just going to dunk on Courtney and try to juice my numbers.
02:00:07
Sammi
But who was nice to her?
02:00:13
Sammi
Jillie! Yeah, Jillie went out of her way to be nice to Courtney. We got a really, the only thing Courtney mentioned about Jillie in this whole book was that Jillie was nice to her and basically said like, hey, I've been through it and if you need anything, I'm here.
02:00:27
Steve
totally Yeah, it's great.
02:00:27
Sammi
We stan Jilly and she said she's like one of the nicest, she's like one of the nicest people ever. And there was also, I was reading this other thing cause it was like the guy that she had ended up with and then they like broke up with after the show, you know, after Jilly was the bachelorette, he also has like the nicest things to say about her.
02:00:44
Sammi
He's like, everything that you think she is, she is that and more. She's like the best person.
02:00:51
Sammi
So just saying, um, Jilli remains undefeated and Trista, like that puts such a bad taste in my mouth about Trista, but it doesn't surprise me that she acted like that because she does. I mean, it's like, oh, I mean, obviously there's like, you know, some weird things going on, like.
02:01:08
Sammi
Things aren't 100 percent perfect, but I think she does want to be like present as perfect all the time. So, you know, it's like, of course, of course, the women who had her back were the ones who are like, I'm a real human and like I have flaws and I'm not perfect.
02:01:22
Sammi
Like Ashley was supportive and Julie was supportive. And I think she said Ali was also supportive. I can't remember. I think she said something nice about Ali, though, um which also doesn't surprise me that Ali was like cool and normal and whatever.
02:01:37
Sammi
Um, and then, oh yeah, there was like this weird thing where they were on like a double date.
02:01:41
Sammi
It was like, it was like Emily and, um, Jeff with one F, right?
02:01:45
Sammi
Wasn't that his day?
02:01:47
Sammi
So weird. Um, so it was like Emily and Jeff were at like the table and it was like her and Ben and they were trying to like, wasn't it that one where they were trying to like out woo each other or whatever.
02:01:59
Sammi
It wasn't, or was it the Ashley and JP date?
02:02:02
Sammi
I don't know. She did a couple of double dates. She did.
02:02:04
Steve
Well, this is Ben's thing too, where it's just like he shows zero affection unless he's in front of other people that he wants to think that.
02:02:04
Sammi
And then like, Yeah.
02:02:10
Sammi
Yeah, and then he's like got something to prove.
02:02:13
Sammi
It's like so weird.
02:02:14
Sammi
But I know that she did a double date with like Ashley and JP. I think that when it was like Ashley and JP were just like being themselves and then Ben felt like he had to play into it. And there was like some weird competition with Emily because then it was like there was they were both kind of gunning for Ari pretty fast.
02:02:31
Sammi
So that was kind of interesting. um Yeah, she says a lot of nice things about Ari later. um But yeah, so she talks about, let's see, the the paparazzi and the smear campaign. Oh, this was also interesting, too, because like, yeah, Ben had like hooked up with Jennifer Love Hewitt.
02:02:49
Steve
Oh yeah, which is like totally weird. And then he was like, she's too clingy.
02:02:52
Sammi
Yeah. I was like, she's Jennifer Love Hewitt. Who are you?
02:02:57
Steve
Yeah. I'm sorry. If Jennifer Love Hewitt was clingy to me and I was Ben, I would thank my lucky stars. It just, I w I would totally hitch my wagon.
02:03:02
Sammi
Yeah, seriously. She gave you the time of day. Yeah, please.
02:03:06
Steve
Yeah. Come on, man.
02:03:08
Sammi
um Yeah, this was interesting, too, that Courtney said, I thought it was kind of funny that right before the show aired, she was photographed looking miserable, carrying the book, why men love bitches. I joked that it was a jab at me.
02:03:21
Sammi
Like she is self-deprecating. That's the thing. Courtney's likable.
02:03:24
Sammi
Once you like, if you just hear her out a little bit, she becomes likable very quickly.
02:03:31
Sammi
um And that's like the thing that is, yeah, was unfortunate because they you just didn't get enough time with her. um Yeah. And then apparently like Ben was on Ellen and she was like, she manipulated you. She came off not nice. She was just playing you, man. You got played and he couldn't say anything. So he just, yeah, like he just kind of had to skate around it. And then he said to Courtney, like, you probably don't want to watch it. And this was like around the time where she's like, oh, things are, I guess, not going to be so chill.
02:04:03
Sammi
Things are going to be pretty bad. Maybe things will blow over. And it's like, no, you know. um Oh, yeah, this was interesting, too. This is kind of what I was saying. Like he kind of gave the woman nothing. um He had been called out for being boring and insensitive to the girls, especially when Casey B admitted to him. She had overcome a serious eating disorder and his response seemed unmoved, uncaring. um I tried to calm them down. I assured him it was going to blow over, but it did not blow over.
02:04:30
Sammi
um Yeah, that was pretty bad. I mean, I just feel like he tried to come off very polished and it just yeah felt robotic and fake. um Oh, this was OK. I do have one of Trista's things where she said um as a mother, um I can't imagine that Courtney Courtney's is even remotely proud of her poor choices and actions, words and attitude. And then she also said in a television interview, she wanted to reach through to the television and slap Courtney.
02:05:01
Sammi
It's like, Jesus. Yeah. um Yeah. ah OK. Yeah. Of course, I of course, I selected a highlighted the Julie thing. A producer contacted me and said, Bachelorette, Jillian Harris had reached out offering advice. If she needs to talk, tell her to call me. Unfortunately, I had no idea who she was. If I had just asked my super fan sister, Rachel, she would have told me how sweet Jillian is and how she stoically survived brutal press about her engagement to alleged cheater Ed Swedersky. Regretfully, I never called her. But I want to thank her now for being one of the few who didn't judge me.
02:05:32
Sammi
Yeah, that's right. We ride for Jilly.
02:05:35
Steve
That's our queen. That's, that's why we're her number one subscriber box subscriber.
02:05:37
Sammi
Yeah. We love, we love Jilly. Now and forever. I said something nice about, what, what was it? I was like, oh, that might be my favorite thing.
02:05:48
Sammi
How it was. Oh, the candle. I got the cereal candle that smells like Froot Loops. And I'm like, this might be my favorite thing from the Jilly box.
02:05:56
Sammi
And, and Tuck goes, oh, here she goes again.
02:06:00
Steve
Back on our jilly bullshit.
02:06:01
Sammi
Talking about jelly. like It's so good. Okay, sorry. Sorry, I purchased something from someone in Bachelor Nation and it's all good quality and I enjoy it.
02:06:14
Sammi
sorry Yeah, and I rang it at Thanksgiving.
02:06:15
Steve
And she gave you a dinner bell.
02:06:21
Sammi
I bring it every Thanksgiving. That's my ceremony.
02:06:25
Sammi
That's my Gilly tradition. um Let's see. OK.
02:06:31
Sammi
Oh, these are all ah are these all of Trista's tweets then, too? Yeah. Yeah. She goes, get a life sutter. And she puts like all of Trista's mean tweets about Courtney in the book.
02:06:42
Steve
Yeah, they're just like right there just
02:06:42
Sammi
Hell yeah. The Internet is forever. Yeah. Good for you, Courtney. um Let's see, yeah, this is when she talked about JP being super fiance. Okay, let's see, paps, paps, paps.
02:06:55
Sammi
I'm like, we're at two hours, I gotta wrap this up. um Oh yeah, she also like made Ben a playlist of love songs for Valentine's Day.
02:07:09
Sammi
Yeah, but one of them was 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover. So she her subconscious was telling her something.
02:07:14
Steve
She knew, she knew.
02:07:15
Sammi
Yeah. Um, Oh, and then this was interesting too. And she admits, this is a terrible thing to say. She goes, this is a terrible thing to say, but on February 11th, Whitney Houston died suddenly and tragically.
02:07:25
Sammi
And I was thankfully forgotten, thankfully forgotten and not followed by the paparazzi for a few weeks. What a weird thing to have happened when all this is going on and go, well, okay, that's, that's.
02:07:36
Sammi
Then I, oh, and then she had like this weird interaction with Russell brand, another very dated thing.
02:07:40
Steve
Yeah, I was like, oh no.
02:07:43
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. And apparently she was like compared to him. I'm like, what the hell was such a strange.
02:07:49
Steve
not Not a comparison you want, I don't think.
02:07:52
Sammi
Yeah, yeah. um And then this was interesting because Courtney really did have a chance to like talk shit about Ben on several occasions. One of them was for the women tell all. But then she kind of like changed her mind at the last minute and decided to just be like nice, because Ben, it's like any time Ben thought maybe his image the way that I interpret it, it's like any time he thought his image could get tarnished, he tried to like smooth things over and like be nice and like, well, you don't have to like you know we can still we can still do this together you know type of a thing and anytime he thought maybe she would say something negative about him he would like pull her back in it's just like so slimy um yeah it was not good so like you see all of this um
02:08:38
Sammi
You know, you like the women tell all the biggest thing was really like Courtney. I mean, there was like the Blakely stuff. There was some Samantha stuff. There was, you know, whatever.
02:08:46
Sammi
But like Courtney comes out and they are just so mean to her. And she's apologizing from the jump.
02:08:52
Steve
Oh, it's like, and the fact of the matter is too, is like, she didn't even have to do that. Like she talks about it in the book, how she's like, I didn't have to do the woman tell all.
02:09:00
Sammi
Mm hmm. It was optional.
02:09:03
Steve
It was an optional thing. It wasn't part of my contract and I chose to do it. And basically they just threw it to the wolves. And then there was this like, what was it?
02:09:11
Steve
Was it like technical problems or something happened? And basically there was all this downtime or no, it was Chris Harrison got really sick. That was it. Chris Harrison got sick. So he had to go lay down.
02:09:21
Steve
So basically they had to pause the tell all and there was just like an hour of like women off camera, just hurling insults at Courtney and then accusing her of just wild shit.
02:09:33
Steve
Like at one point she talks about how she was like shaking because she was sobbing so hard.
02:09:38
Steve
And one of the girls just like, Oh, there's Courtney laughing again.
02:09:43
Sammi
That was Elise. And she liked Elise. And but then she said that thing about sore eyes.
02:09:47
Sammi
And so Elise was like, you know what? Fuck you also. Which like I get it. But like she wasn't like it's pretty obvious that she was crying. Like she looked miserable.
02:09:58
Sammi
She looked really hurt, really miserable. And yeah. And so yeah. And she's like um I found it fascinating that they claimed that I was in this for the fame.
02:10:08
Sammi
Like it's like she was already like banging famous people.
02:10:11
Sammi
OK, do you really think she.
02:10:11
Steve
I know. She's banging famous people. She's ah a successful model.
02:10:13
Sammi
but yeah Not all like she doesn't need it like this show was beneath her in every way.
02:10:20
Sammi
And she goes, nothing could have been further from the truth. Plus during filming, when the cameras weren't there, so many of these same women sat around talking about what it was going to be like when they were famous after the show started airing.
02:10:30
Sammi
They were excited about being recognized and hoping for lucrative opportunities. Where did we hear this before?
02:10:35
Steve
sounds like you're not here for the right reasons.
02:10:35
Sammi
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, that's like one of the cardinal sins. You do not talk about that on the show at all. And I believe that she never said a word of any of that. She wouldn't she would have admitted it if she had.
02:10:48
Sammi
That's the thing. So.
02:10:50
Sammi
Yeah, and someone said, oh, one audience member made a heart shape with her hand and mouth. I love you.
02:10:56
Sammi
That's that was me in the audience. You know, I'm just kidding. coming from the past to the future or from the future to the past. um The verbal abuse became so bad I was taking him back to my trailer until Chris was ready to shoot again. When he felt well enough to give it another go, the torture continued. It didn't help when he started off with, the women are understandably pissed. I mean, pissed at you, then left me hanging in the breeze. I'm going to forgive him for not coming to my defense that one time because he was sick, but he did not seem to have my back at all.
02:11:24
Sammi
um Yeah, and she really like immediately was like, listen, I made mistakes. Like I have regrets. Like this was not good. And people were just like upset. And then and then. But Blakely, like I get it because it's like she was on the outs with everybody and she thought she was cool with Courtney. And that would be her fault. You know, and she's like, what did I ever do to you for you to call me a stripper? um What did you ever what I ever do for you to say I'm the kind of girl your boyfriend cheats on me with?
02:11:51
Sammi
100% agree. And she was like, nothing. You didn't do anything. Like, I'm sorry, you know.
02:11:57
Sammi
um And then, yeah, Elise called her trashy for skinny dipping. And then she thought Jacqueline was her friend, which I mean, I think they're cool now because like she did it like a part of the book and stuff.
02:12:08
Sammi
But she said, you know, when I hear you drag my name, my friend's name through the mud, that's what really gets me. And Jennifer called me up for not knowing her name for six days. I barely knew her name now.
02:12:22
Sammi
That's good for revenge.
02:12:23
Sammi
um But yeah, Casey, again, tried to come to Courtney's defense, which is like really hard to do when everybody is coming for you. And in Casey was still like, listen, you guys, this is unnecessary.
02:12:35
Sammi
You don't need to be like this. And they were like, but shut up. You know, whatever. And then, yeah, Emily, Emily, like she looked really bad on the women till all watching it again. I was like, yikes. She looks like such a.
02:12:46
Sammi
um She's like she was like. um Yeah, she goes, um, it was hard for every last one of us. Did we all react by making these jabs or being negative and rude to everyone?
02:12:58
Sammi
And Courtney in her head was like, uh, yeah, you hypocrite. You know, she goes, I kept that jab to myself. And and Emily's like, guess what we did? We made friendships to support one another and get through it.
02:13:11
Sammi
Courtney did exactly the opposite. We were human beings and tried to make connections to get through this. She goes, I absolutely despise this walking disease expert this time.
02:13:22
Sammi
I had no choice. i had to swallow my pride bend over and take it up the tailpipe I mean that's she did it the way she needed to do it she knew she had to just say sorry even though she knew like she was in the wrong for certain things she wasn't in the wrong for everything like yeah watching it
02:13:36
Steve
Yep Mm-hmm, but she just had to sit there and eat shit basically
02:13:40
Sammi
Yeah, watching it over again, I'm like, Emily is so self-righteous, like so annoying. I'm like, why did I ever think she was like mildly charming? I hate her now. Sorry. Hindsight 2020, you know, all that stuff. um And then, yeah, Chris was like, there's nothing left for you to apologize for. And, ah yeah, apparently Nikki leaned over to KCB and was like, I am not going to hug her. And Samantha was like, she's a bitch. End of story.
02:14:10
Sammi
Oh, my God, it's awful.
02:14:12
Sammi
Yeah. um And then, yeah, Ben was like, OK, I want to get back together. It's like, are you kidding me? Like, gross.
02:14:21
Steve
Yeah, the on again off again bullshit.
02:14:22
Steve
no i'm I'm glad she finally just squashed that thing. And then also I think it's funny that she staged a paparazzi photo shoot.
02:14:32
Sammi
Yes. Well, so this was the sequence of events because it was kind of like they were on the rocks, whatever.
02:14:37
Sammi
And I think it was one of the one of the times it was because like she wasn't there. I think this first time she wasn't there enough for like the dog or did that happen later? I don't know. Like his dog died and then she wasn't around the right amount because he wasn't telling her.
02:14:50
Steve
Yeah, she like it was his birthday it was his birthday and the dog died and Yeah, and and for some reason her head she was just like oh I should just leave because I should leave for like Yeah, and then
02:14:55
Sammi
I don't remember exactly when that happened. Yeah. Maybe that was later.
02:15:05
Sammi
Like it just, he was like not talking to her and he was like withdrawn and it felt awkward. So she just thought, okay, like, I just don't think that this is happening.
02:15:17
Steve
Yeah. So then she left and then she realized after she left and she was already going home, she's like, Oh no, I abandoned my fiance on his birthday after his dog died.
02:15:26
Sammi
after his dog died that was probably bad but like it was also like weird miscommunicate but I think that happened later so it's like they were kind of on the outs he was like letting the press get to him around Valentine's Day and then like yeah he was just like he was just kind of like checked out of their relationship and she was like you know what I'm gonna do the women tell all
02:15:48
Sammi
She did the Women Tell All. They like came for her. And then he was like, I want to get back together. And then is when the magazine came out. and it was like And her sister was like, it does not look good. And yeah, there was like this this you know yeah this thing that came out that he was like, you know like kissing someone else and whatever.
02:16:11
Sammi
And then oh yeah, there was also like she was like stories about her were getting sold and stuff. And yeah, that was really bad too. um Including like a photo of like her naked in a bathtub when she was like when she was sick.
02:16:26
Sammi
Like what the hell?
02:16:26
Steve
Which, and then and then that was like foreshadowed, because she in the beginning she's just like, there are some naked photos of me, but more on that later.
02:16:33
Steve
Then she just goes back to it.
02:16:33
Sammi
Yeah, I was like, whoa, that's wild.
02:16:37
Sammi
But yeah, it was like, yeah, there was just like all this weird like paparazzi stuff and whatever. And um yeah, and she watched um the finale and after the final rose alone.
02:16:50
Sammi
Like, that's just so sad. um And then there was like, yeah, this there was like this thing that they did for it. Was it people or in touch? Because I know they did a people one maybe in touch you. But it was like um she ah they they had done like this one thing where like he'd get like a like a makeover or whatever of his apartment. But then he had to like give the furniture back. But he threw a party first.
02:17:15
Steve
So the furniture's just going to get trashed.
02:17:17
Sammi
Like talk about inexperience. You know what I mean? So she's like, so I'm just stressed out the whole time, hoping it doesn't get dirty or whatever. And like, yeah. And she got offered to do Dancing with the Stars. That would have been the redemption arc she needed.
02:17:29
Steve
Yep. And he was, he was like, no, but then he wanted to do his dumb reality show.
02:17:29
Sammi
And he didn't let her do it.
02:17:33
Steve
And then he would, the other thing I didn't like either is like, they would do some guest appearances, but then there were other times too. Like one instance where he like withheld money from her or something and then pretended like it wasn't a big deal.
02:17:43
Sammi
Yes. Well, that was that was the furniture thing.
02:17:46
Sammi
That was the furniture thing because it was like they were giving they were doing like a makeover and then they also like paid for it.
02:17:46
Steve
That was the British thing. Yeah.
02:17:52
Sammi
And and he was supposed to give her half the money.
02:17:54
Sammi
And he was like, well, don't you have enough money? And she's like, I lost a lot of opportunities like doing the show. Like, are you kidding me? Like.
02:18:02
Sammi
And it's not like she got paid to do the show, you know. um But yeah, she she had an opportunity to be on Dancing with the Stars and she said it was one hundred twenty five thousand dollars to show up and thirty thousand dollars for every week she made it through.
02:18:14
Sammi
That's like really good money.
02:18:14
Steve
Damn. Yeah, I take that.
02:18:16
Sammi
Yeah. And and he said, if you do it, you won't have a fiance. What a piece of trash.
02:18:22
Steve
That's a real asshole dancing with the stars.
02:18:23
Sammi
What a piece of trash piece of trash.
02:18:26
Steve
That's your light of the sand, buddy. Come on, come on.
02:18:28
Sammi
Ridiculous, ridiculous. She's like, this was not a good start. um Yeah, so that was really bad. But yeah, he tried to do this like this reality show called Young Sonoma, where it was like, you know, they're they're starting like a winery or whatever. And that never made it off the ground. i Like, I think it's just he wanted to feel.
02:18:47
Sammi
like bigger, better, more important than her constantly.
02:18:50
Sammi
And he was already like way behind.
02:18:54
Sammi
So he had to do anything he could to catch up and make her look bad.
02:18:58
Sammi
um Yeah. Yeah. The In Touch Weekly thing was like the story that like her ex Dylan sold that picture and all that, like really awful.
02:19:07
Sammi
um Yeah, here's the young Sonoma. Oh, and then also there they they had had an offer to appear on VH1's couples therapy, but like that was smart of her to say no to that.
02:19:15
Steve
Yeah, that that don't don't go on that one.
02:19:16
Sammi
Smart. Terrible show. She she like was right on. you know Yeah, and she was also like, I didn't want to do like a diet pill thing. She's like, that's weird and gross.
02:19:27
Sammi
So like she's got good instincts, you know except for like being on the show, I guess. Um, but she was just like, no. And then he, yeah, he, he asked her to be on the show young Sonoma and she was like, no, I don't want to do it.
02:19:41
Sammi
And then they did this, like, they did this like supper club or like, uh, it's called, well, not our kind of supper club.
02:19:48
Sammi
Um, it's called supper club in LA. They did this like appearance or whatever. Um, yeah. And then this was gross. She was like, uh, did you go to a strip club last night?
02:19:59
Sammi
And he's like, how did you know? It's like,
02:20:01
Steve
So because he was like covered in cocoa butter and glitter?
02:20:03
Sammi
Yeah, it's so weird. And then like he he like said, oh, well, we're engaged dating. And she's like, what the hell is that? And at this event, there were like other like reality star people there and. Yeah. And then, yeah, then she met Ashley and yeah, this was like a whole whole thing. This was interesting, too. Like she said she talks about Uh, this event, she kind of talks about like what it's like to be part of bachelor nation, you know, and she's like, it's like a private high school on steroids. And she goes like, there are clicks within clicks and all this stuff. And she goes, not many people know that Vienna and Girardi and country singing bad boy, Wes Hayden had a thing after she broke up with Jake Pavelka. I was like, Ooh, a little timber. Thank you.
02:20:47
Sammi
ah That was still one of like the most interesting ah relationships on the show ever. I mean, that was an interesting villain story, but I really also have more sympathy for Vienna than I do for Jake at this point.
02:21:01
Sammi
And I don't think I felt that way when the show came out.
02:21:04
Sammi
So it's so interesting how we change points with those things. oh yeah and then she also wanted to do like a vegan cookbook and he was like why like why do you think you can do a cookbook like he just like talked down to her every time she had like a good idea he was like no
02:21:16
Steve
Yeah, he like didn't support her like 80 idea. He's like, Oh, no, no.
02:21:21
Sammi
No, that's terrible.
02:21:22
Sammi
Do you know how many harebrained ideas I bring into this house and every single one of them, Chuck goes, that sounds great. You should do that. I'm like, I think I want to try to develop a video game. He's like, well, that sounds right up your alley. You should try to do that.
02:21:32
Sammi
And I'm like, yeah, he'll never like, I mean, every once in a while he goes, are you sure that's maybe, maybe that's the thing that's too far.
02:21:40
Sammi
But it's like, I say so many wild shit, wild things in this house and he'll just go. Yeah, that sounds good. You should do that. I think you can do that. It's like I can't imagine being with someone who's like, you, you can't do that.
02:21:51
Steve
Not supportive at all.
02:21:52
Sammi
Like, what the hell's wrong?
02:21:55
Sammi
So rude. OK, I know I'm just like piling on at this point, but I'm just I'm just like paging through all the things that I highlighted that I'm like, God, he just.
02:22:03
Sammi
Yeah, she goes, when we'd be apart, he'd call me and ask, what are you doing today? When I told him he rarely liked the answer, he seemed annoyed and resentful. Why don't you do something dynamic? Why don't you paint?
02:22:14
Sammi
Why don't you go to a museum?
02:22:14
Steve
Why don't you do something dynamic?
02:22:15
Sammi
It's like she write a cookbook. Why is that not dynamic enough for you?
02:22:19
Sammi
Do you want to be on Dancing with the Stars? Why is that not dynamic enough for you?
02:22:22
Steve
No, do you not like free money, sir? Like what?
02:22:26
Sammi
It's like she could have been on Dancing with the Stars and she could have used that to launch a vegan cookbook. Hello? Oh, Courtney, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
02:22:35
Steve
Oh, okay. She seems happy now. She's married. She's got three kids. Come on.
02:22:41
Sammi
And this is interesting, too. This is making more sense, too. I need to spend more time on his LinkedIn because I forgot that she mentioned that he made more than a million dollars from an online marketing company he sold when he was younger. She goes, But he he had blown a lot of the money living large and traveling all over Europe.
02:22:58
Sammi
Um, yeah. And he like, it's like he'd win a, he'd gamble in Vegas, win $5,000 and buy a used Jeep. Even though he had a new BMW, like it's just like, Oh, and this is when she talks about the cream dream song.
02:23:10
Sammi
It's so bad. You need to, you need to watch it. Uh, I don't blame you if you don't make it past 15 seconds. Cause I don't think I can make it past 15 seconds.
02:23:16
Steve
No. It's a gauntlet.
02:23:19
Steve
A gauntlet of punishment.
02:23:20
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, this is the J.P. and then she talks about the J.P. and Ashley hang out. And there is a little segment but from Michelle Money in there as well. um But they go to this like like fancy dinner with them. And and this is weird, too, like, because it's like this is the person that Ashley turned down. Right. But I mean, whatever. um But he's like talking about wine. And Ashley says to J.P. like,
02:23:44
Sammi
This is sexy. I wish you knew more about wine. and I'm like, that's kind of weird. Why would you say that? Like, don't say that.
02:23:50
Steve
I'll never say that.
02:23:51
Sammi
But like JP was like pretty chill. So, you know, he was like, whatever. It's funny. um And then Ben was like, should we split this? And it was like an eight hundred dollar bill after she was like, I'm stressed about money.
02:24:01
Steve
Oh my gosh. Yeah. and And he was the one that was ordering all the expensive stuff.
02:24:05
Sammi
Yeah. After she's like, I'm stressed about money. And he like turned down her chance to make a ton of money like.
02:24:11
Steve
The worst, the absolute worst.
02:24:11
Sammi
Oh, yeah. And then and it's like and then he's you know it's like, oh, we're competing with this other couple. And I'm like, oh, I love how you know your way around the city.
02:24:21
Sammi
You're so sexy. like Go fuck yourself, man. You suck so bad.
02:24:28
Sammi
Oh, yeah. And there was a little Chris Bukowski um segment in here, too. I'll let you read that, everybody. I'm telling you, read this book. It's a good book. Oh, yeah. And then he's talking about Fernet. Yeah. um The company found out he was a fan of the liquor and made him an ambassador of the brand.
02:24:42
Sammi
So that was the Fernet that he was an ambassador of.
02:24:45
Sammi
But then he also, I mean, it must be, right? Because it must be.
02:24:50
Sammi
um ah But then, yeah, it's like, what does it it say, like co-founders?
Courtney's Post-Bachelor Life
02:24:55
Sammi
So I don't know. Anyway, I'm just saying maybe there are some puffed up credentials on his LinkedIn.
02:25:00
Sammi
Maybe who's to say? Not sure.
02:25:02
Steve
and Anything's possible.
02:25:03
Sammi
I'll have anything's possible. You can say anything on the Internet. ah You know, nobody knows you're a dog.
02:25:09
Sammi
um So let's see. And then, yeah, this was another weird thing. This is like a red flag. I dated a guy like this where it was like he never wanted to spend like one on one time together. It was like always like with friends and with a group.
02:25:21
Sammi
And I'm like, I just want to hang out with you. I don't want to like always be doing stuff.
02:25:23
Steve
Yeah. Why do you want to hang out with all these other people? Yeah. You don't need a pasty.
02:25:25
Sammi
Like it's just. Yeah, and then it was like it was also like, you know, we he'd take me like one time he like took me to like four places in one night and I couldn't spend more than like 20 minutes at a place where he's like, we're going to the next place.
02:25:38
Sammi
And I'm like, I don't. And and he had taken me to an arcade. And then I was playing a game and he was like, we're leaving and I barely got to play one game.
02:25:49
Sammi
Do you know what happens if you take me to an arcade and say, say we have to go in 20 minutes?
02:25:53
Steve
In 20 that's crazy. You can't do that.
02:25:55
Sammi
Me at an arcade, Sammy leave in 20 minutes.
02:25:56
Steve
Yeah. No, that's no never Try 20 hours buddy
02:25:58
Sammi
I was like, you don't even know me at all. I was like so upset. I was like, I could be here. Yeah. I was like, I could be here till bar close. You don't even know. Like I was so upset. Yeah. So like that was like the kind of relationship they had to, or it was like, we always have to be like with other people at these events and at these dinners and whatever.
02:26:16
Sammi
And it's like. Oh, yeah. Oh, and this was interesting, too. At one point when they were together, he told her that she was a naive for not realizing that he had done the show to promote his winery. Sleazy, scummy.
02:26:30
Steve
He's like, I'm a scumbag and you're dumb for not knowing that.
02:26:33
Sammi
Yeah, and she and it's like and she's just like, this is my job. I'm just talking about the job I have. And they're like, you're just trying to get famous. And she's like, I kind of am already just got to tell you that, like,
02:26:46
Sammi
Um, ah Ben's handler got married. Oh yeah. This was interesting too. She got to talk about like some of the people that she meets at. Oh yeah. This was the, this was the Emily Jeff thing.
02:26:57
Sammi
Yeah. Jeff with one F and they were like already fighting. Like they had just gotten together and they were like already fighting and they had just come back from like a mission trip or something like that.
02:27:09
Sammi
Cause remember Jeff was like Mormon and weird.
02:27:12
Sammi
Um, yeah, and and he was just like, there's some differences between us. She likes to be inside and not do a lot. I'm more social.
02:27:19
Sammi
And, uh, and Courtney said, Oh, you'll be fine once you get into a normal routine. I lied. I could tell Emily if Jep for doomed.
02:27:27
Sammi
And yeah, apparently he was like, yeah. And she called them like boring and stuff. Like Emily called him boring. Like, Oh,
02:27:34
Sammi
She called him Jeff Borman. Uh, yeah, really bad.
02:27:39
Sammi
And then, yeah, he was in a, and so then Ben was in this flirty text relationship, like we said, with a PR rep for Fernet. And yeah, that whole thing was so strange. Um, and he, she had like given him a massage or something.
02:27:54
Sammi
Oh no, that was a different one.
02:27:56
Sammi
A girl who had been caught giving him a shot.
02:27:56
Steve
No, that, that was the difficulty. She got the girl who gave a massage in the park.
02:28:00
Sammi
Yeah, and she goes, you're the girl from the massage pictures. um Yeah, it's so bad. This was the one where, yeah, it's like they had. Oh, yeah, there was like a an event in Vegas. There's like all anyway. What you need to know um is that ah he sucks basically. And then. Yeah. And then she.
02:28:22
Sammi
um She and ah corners him about this like flirty text relationship with this PR up. And he's like, we're just friends. You can go through my phone, you know.
02:28:35
Sammi
um Yeah. And she's like, every time I see your phone, her name keeps popping up. Agreed. ah But then it's like they'd make up. So it's just like they never had like a normal, decent relationship.
02:28:49
Steve
was always up and down
02:28:49
Sammi
And then. Yeah. And then Ari comes into the picture. OK.
02:28:53
Steve
Oh yeah. After they break up. Well, I mean, so first of all, like Ben is super jealous because he could tell that like Ari has a crush on her and she kind of has like, she's like, Oh, he's cute. And then after, you know, the, the Ben and Courtney's relationship finally explodes as it should have way before it did.
02:29:11
Steve
Uh, then she gets to hook up with the kissing band and she's like, I believe she said it was the best sex she'd ever had.
02:29:19
Steve
And she had nothing but kind things to say about him until she gets to the edge. She's like, but actually the whole time he was dating a born again Virgin. And so, Oh, totally.
02:29:29
Sammi
Yeah, she's like, yeah, so he's kind of like a skeezy guy too. I mean, we all know Ari skeezy, but she was like, hey, it was fun, whatever. And then like they were like kind of dating like in secret.
02:29:42
Sammi
And then she's like, let's go out. And then like someone, ah like it was like someone at a table next to them, like took a picture and then it was everywhere.
02:29:50
Sammi
And Ben's like, how could you betray my trust? And I'm just like, do you don't you don't he cannot lay claim to Courtney after the way that you treated her if you think that she owes you anything you're so delusional like absolutely she does not owe you a single thing um i will say um i won't say what Courtney's Halloween costume idea was with Ben but i will say that the one thing he got right in the whole book is that it was a bad idea um But that's the only thing I'm going to say.
02:30:21
Sammi
You can read it for yourself.
02:30:22
Sammi
um But yeah, like he's just like it's like he I mean, I would say it's very well, we'll say self-centered behavior because I'm not going to say that someone has a personality disorder like Emily does.
02:30:34
Sammi
But what I will say is it's it's very manipulative the way that Ben was acting the way that she characterizes it. And it's it aligns with everything else that we have been able to see.
02:30:44
Sammi
So I don't I I am very inclined to believe everything that she said, to be honest. um Yeah, and apparently Ben texted Courtney's dad when they broke up and he said, sorry, it didn't work out.
02:30:59
Sammi
Thanks for letting me be a part of your family. And her dad said, I can't believe you let her get away.
02:31:04
Steve
yeah Nice dad move.
02:31:04
Sammi
Good dad, good dad. We like Courtney's dad. I mean, Courtney's parents seem so cool. um Oh, yeah. And then Ari put kissing tips in this book. Okay, like you have to read it.
02:31:17
Sammi
It's so good. But I will say that one of his kissing tips is incredibly out of date as well. Because it's like, don't ask permission. Sorry.
02:31:28
Sammi
Ask for consent. Ask for consent, friends. Please, please do that. um But yeah, like it's kind of cute to see that she let. Yeah. So this is what Ben sent back to her after he found out.
02:31:39
Sammi
He said, you just dug your own grave. Good luck gaining respect from anyone. I'm not here to protect you from negativity anymore. You lost all credibility that you built up after the last media disaster.
02:31:51
Sammi
It's really disappointing. Don't expect me to be on your side anymore. Our united front is out the fucking window. Have a nice ride on your own. Tata.
02:32:03
Sammi
And she goes, I want to read you this whole thing because it's it's oh my God, it's really long. Actually, maybe I won't read you the whole thing because we're at two and a half hours. Hope you're enjoying this really deep dive. She goes that United French has been out the window for quite some time.
02:32:15
Sammi
You're the one that gave up. Not me. Remember that. And he goes, you kiss the guy. How does that make you so miss me? It's been a week since we stopped talking and you're already going on dates in public. How stupid are you? And she goes, I do miss you badly.
02:32:26
Sammi
I wake up in the middle of the night crying. Not that you care. Looks like you've been off living it up. You let me go so easily.
02:32:32
Sammi
True. Somebody said, last week was an escape for me. You going on a date with Ari is the prime example why we didn't work. You never think about your actions. That is rich coming from him.
02:32:43
Steve
I know of all people.
02:32:43
Sammi
Cannot believe he said that. She goes, everyone makes mistakes and I've forgiven you many times. He goes, whatever. This is your bad, not mine. You're in a pickle. Have fun with that. She goes, it was one date he called me when she lied and she admits she lied.
02:32:58
Sammi
She's like, again, I'm sorry, I will always love you and we'll be there for you whether you like it or not. And he goes, not so sure anymore. Anyway, have fun with this. I do feel bad you put yourself in this situation. Frankly, I'm shocked.
02:33:11
Sammi
And apparently he even tried to call Ari seriously.
02:33:14
Steve
And then Ari never called her called him back.
02:33:15
Sammi
No, reminiscent of my ex, like just instigating shit.
02:33:16
Steve
I just left a voicemail.
02:33:19
Sammi
Yeah. Hey, man, I'm not mad at you. I just have a few questions like Ari couldn't see through that. Yeah.
02:33:24
Sammi
No wonder he didn't call you back. um But yeah, then it was like this whole insult thing in the in the tabloids and stuff. And um yeah.
02:33:37
Sammi
And then but then Courtney was like, yeah, I was basically like brainwashed. So Which is a really funny way to respond to that. um Let's see. That's kind of the big stuff, I think. um Who told her that? Oh, this was interesting too. She like dated David Spade for a hot second.
02:34:00
Sammi
Yeah. And he said, well, I have to, well, he tried at least. He goes, well, I have to admit you are sort of tough to date. First have to figure out if you're single, then I have to get you to answer the phone. Then you have to say, yes, lining up all three of these things is sort of difficult.
02:34:17
Sammi
um I really enjoyed his book, by the way, if you haven't read David Spade's book, I recommend it. It was a really good book. Yeah, it was really good.
02:34:28
Sammi
Sank in a serious pressure. Yeah, I mean, this basically I mean, this kind of ruined her life for a while. Like, why would she want this? And why would she expect that this is what would happen? And why, you know, it's like it doesn't make logical sense if you if you come out the other side watching the season and reading this book and going, yes, Courtney is the villain and she is actually a bad person.
02:34:47
Sammi
I would question your judgment on everything because it doesn't it doesn't make any sense. um This was interesting to OK, this is one of the last things she like went to um like a psychic um and OK, this is interesting because she like went to the bathroom or something and she was like, well, what if she sold our conversation at a tabloid and she came back from the bathroom and she goes, I was channeling your energy when you went to pee.
02:35:13
Sammi
And don't you worry, everything is completely private, much like a doctor. And she was like, Oh, okay. Uh, can you channel Ben then? And she said he was standing there with his arms crossed, pouting like a little boy.
02:35:23
Sammi
She said he had a mental block because of his mother and that we were possibly together in a past life.
02:35:29
Sammi
She said he just didn't know what he wanted, but he really did love me. I would hear from him again when I turned 40. I had tears in my eyes. So now I want to know, did she hear from him? Like I, I need to know when she turned 40.
02:35:38
Steve
Yeah, I guess she's I think she's 41 42 now so
02:35:42
Sammi
Yeah, she i yeah, she just like she just um was 40 not too long ago. So I'm like, oh, I wonder. And I I got to go on like old reality, Steve, like episodes, because she's done a lot of them. Like, I wonder if he asked her around the time she turned 40 this question, because I'd be dying to know if he like reached out and she would totally tell us if he did.
02:36:01
Sammi
So anyway, something to look forward to, because this has given me all these other places I want to go. Now that I read this book, I'm like, I have so many questions. Oh my gosh. this was Can you write three more books, Courtney?
02:36:12
Sammi
It was so good. Can you get some of like the best villains to write books?
02:36:12
Steve
Yeah, let's keep it going.
02:36:15
Sammi
like We need more villain books. We need a Michelle Money book. We need a Demi book. We need these books. um but yeah so um yes i mean She was way too nice to him. she yeah and um There was a clear the air thing that he did even before she turned 40 in 2013.
02:36:36
Sammi
um And there was like apparently like this rumor that he had been dating Chris Jenner.
02:36:41
Steve
Oh yeah, that that that was a weird part of the of the epilogue at the end. It's like, what?
02:36:47
Sammi
Yeah, yeah. and And yeah, no young Sonoma to be found. So yeah. um Yeah. So I don't know about all the oh and then yeah. Jenna Burke not only hooked up with Jeff Holm, but she also hooked up with Shawn Lowe after a charity event sponsored by her ice coffee company, Real Bean, since September 2012. A week later, he was announced as the next bachelor. Jenna was devastated. She truly thought they had a connection. Sorry, he married a different blogger. So wasn't you? He picked a vegan blogger. So sorry about that. um Yeah. And I forgot that KCB was on Shawn season for a hot second. Yeah.
02:37:28
Sammi
But um I think those are kind of like the big ones. um but Chris lives in Palm Beach, Florida and runs the raw food empire, Christopher's kitchen. He had a baby boy in December 2013.
02:37:41
Sammi
Oh yeah. Adrian Grenier still booty call text Courtney to this day. I mean, 2013, the last time he wrote her, he asked, are you still on that show?
02:37:48
Sammi
There's a good chance he has no idea she wrote this book or that he's in it.
02:37:54
Sammi
Um, it was a really good book. I really liked it. The pictures at the end were really cute too. I thought that they were like totally adorable.
02:38:01
Sammi
Um, yeah. So I recommended any closing thoughts since I just like spent two and a half hours talking at you.
02:38:08
Steve
No, 10 out of 10. It's a great read. it's it's It's insightful.
02:38:12
Steve
It gives you like a behind the scenes look at the process. It gives you an in-depth kind of breakdown of an actual season from the perspective of someone who was on the show. And it's just nice. It's breezy.
02:38:23
Steve
It's it's good. So if you if you haven't read it and you're a Bachelor fan, highly recommend.
02:38:29
Sammi
Yeah, I know we like basically recounted the whole book to you because it's so good and there were were so many moments that I had highlighted, but I mean, that's how good it is. It's a good fast read. If you haven't read Bachelor Nation and you haven't read this book, those are like the two essential reads, I would say.
02:38:45
Sammi
You've got to do. You've got to do. We'll probably read more Bachelor Nation things, but we'll try maybe before my winter break is over. Do A Secret Lives of Mormon Wives special episode for season one before season two comes out.
02:38:59
Sammi
Yeah, I got I gotta rewatch it and take notes this time, but I'm excited to rewatch it because what is what a season, what a show.
02:39:07
Sammi
And there's so much drama happening like on TikTok. And I mean, it's just so interesting. So friends, until we do our next special episode or until the next season starts, take care of yourselves.
02:39:18
Sammi
This is right before New Year's Eve. So, you know, pick a resolution or a focus word or just resolve to get more sleep and and don't suffer fools, you know, do whatever do whatever you want, whatever resolution you want.
02:39:34
Steve
but Don't do needle drugs. Why don't you?
02:39:36
Sammi
Maybe that's your resolution.
02:39:37
Steve
That's a good resolution. Don't do them.
02:39:41
Sammi
Just don't do them.
02:39:41
Steve
I don't ever do them. Don't ever do them.
02:39:43
Sammi
You know, yeah, not even don't even do them and then say, oh, but next year I won't just don't do it.
02:39:49
Steve
Yeah, no, no. Nip it in the bud.
02:39:59
Steve
I mean, we covered covered a full season and a book, basically.
02:39:59
Sammi
I had a lot to say.
02:40:03
Sammi
That's true. So for what it's worth, it was actually really short.