Transcript
Sammi: The music's not playing. that of You know what? I actually think that's momentous.
Steve: They played for me the first time.
Sammi: It's playing for you? Wait, hold on.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: Oh, I can't hear it. Okay, hold on. I'm going to play it now. Is it playing?
Steve: Yeah. This is how every podcast should start.
Sammi: I hope you can hear this.
Steve: Is it on? I don't know if it's on.
Sammi: You're
Sammi: going have to tell me when to stop it. Hello?
Steve: Steve, is the music playing?
Sammi: Hello?
Steve: working.
Sammi: Wait, is it? Did it start now
Steve: It's playing. We have a theme song.
Sammi: I can't hear it.
Steve: thank
Sammi: Okay. I have no idea when that started or stopped, but I'm not stopping because...
Steve: i love I love this for us.
Sammi: Hello. I'm Sammy.
Steve: Oh, hello.
Sammi: I'm Sammy.
Steve: and I'm Steve.
Sammi: And you're listening to a cursed podcast or watching it.
Steve: love this. i love this
Sammi: um Yeah, this is actually kind of perfect because today, i don't know why I can't hear it, but today we are doing something completely different. So I think it's like a really good time to talk about this because we you might have noticed, maybe you haven't, you've got things that you're doing with your life, um but we haven't been covering The Golden Bachelor.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: And we haven't gotten back to the secret lives of Mormon wives.
Steve: yeah and it's And it's not because we're deeply ageous and also hate Mormons, believe it or not.
Sammi: No. Well, yeah, it's because we were like, hey, censorship, that's fucked up. and There's a lot of other things that are going on that's fucked up. But, you know, um I was actually trying to watch Community today. I was trying to show Tuck Community for the first time. That was why I was grumpy, because I i could not access Peacock for the life of me.
Sammi: It was really annoying. Because we don't have Hulu right now. So, because we just, just we're like, we're going to stay off of Hulu for a while. And i we you and I have to mutually decide, like,
Sammi: if when we go back. Um, but right now in my family, in my household account, which maybe is owned by my parents, whatever, we totally don't share streaming services.
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
Steve: No, why would you do that?
Sammi: And I don't get texts from my mom saying, what's the HBO password again? Um,
Steve: Just like I don't pirate everything.
Sammi: Yeah, do that no, we do everything on the up and up here. But right now we don't have Hulu.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: So I was like, well, where can I show him community? And turns out it's on Peacock. And there are all kinds of technical difficulties today. And a bunch of people were reporting outages right when I wanted to watch it.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: So that made me really crabby on top of everything else. But what I was going to say is this, you know, what we're doing is basically what Britta did, you know, where she says, like, you know, I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty.
Sammi: Like, you know, we're like, well, now that they've come for Jimmy Kimmel, we're not going to cover it. No, but we we were like, let's talk about something different. Maybe we should watch some movies about like censorship in the media and talk about it.
Sammi: Because did you know that we both have?
Steve: The state of things.
Sammi: Well, yeah, but also, did you know we have master's degrees in media studies? Why?
Steve: We do.
Sammi: I don't know.
Steve: We do.
Sammi: But we do. So i was like.
Steve: And what do we use those for?
Sammi: Talking shit.
Steve: Talking about The Bachelor mostly. That's good.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: No, this is actually right in my wheelhouse. because ah So, you know, I talk The Bachelor with Sammy. And believe it or not, I am a full-time weekly podcasting man ah with a podcast called Optimism Vaccine, where we we talk about movies.
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: ah So this is this is a thing that I love to do. And now I get to do it here. So this is great.
Sammi: Yes, and for those of you who have listened to this or watched this in the past couple years, you might not know that Pop Culture Diner was intended to be like this larger catch-all for many different shows.
Sammi: So i even like I don't even know if they I even have them anymore, but I was going to cover Riverdale with somebody, and then they had to like go to law school or whatever.
Steve: Boo Boo
Sammi: ah And then I was covering horror movies with another friend and she had to like have a baby or whatever.
Steve: Boo That's
Sammi: Actually, that's like my favorite kid. I will be very honest about that.
Steve: I'll say they're fine I never met them i don't know if they're any good and
Sammi: Best kid. She is the best kid to live, in my opinion. um But yeah, so those were other things that were going to fall under it. I had talked to people. I even had like some video game related stuff, like video game movies and things like that.
Sammi: So it was going to be like, here are all the things at the diner. So I know I've explained this before, but for those who haven't heard this. So Rose Plate Special was like the bachelor um show within Pop Culture Diner.
Sammi: ah So, you know, we've been talking about like, are we going to keep doing it? What are we going to do? Is the franchise going to die? Are we going to stay till the bitter end? I feel like there's plenty of other Bachelor stuff we can cover and I do still want to keep covering it to some extent.
Sammi: So I think we'll kind of feel that out and decide when it's right. But skipping the Golden Bachelor just like felt spiritually right because Mel is like a fucking loser.
Steve: to
Sammi: Anyway, sorry. um Allegedly.
Steve: yeah yeah and hey jokes on you internet we could talk about all kinds of bullshit so ah
Sammi: Allegedly.
Sammi: hmm. That's the good thing. We seriously are both really well versed in yapping. And um so, yeah, we were talking about like, OK, let's talk about maybe censorship, media, things like that.
Sammi: And there is so I used to cover horror movies and there's a new thing that I'm working on launching. called The Horrors Persist and it's going to be its own podcast where I cover horror movies and books and all of that and I bring my friends with me to talk about that.
Sammi: So yes, I would consider this like a crossover episode.
Steve: Mm-hmm. they
Sammi: This is like our soft launch into doing more of those because obviously I'm going to invite Steve to do them with me when he wants to and I'm going to have a few other friends come with me too and we're going to cover a lot of that stuff.
Sammi: So To talk about the horrors today, what what we are going to cover, and actually before that, I'm going to share some good news. so Here's the best bright spot to come out of Bachelor Nation in the last day.
Sammi: Literally, I got this email today.
Steve: Okay. okay Yeah.
Sammi: i got this email today. The Jilly box. I know you were all worried for my well-being, my mental health. um Jilly is going to ship to the U.S. in the winter.
Steve: she She's defeating the tariffs.
Sammi: Thank you, Jilly.
Steve: Chili defeats Trump.
Sammi: Thank you, Jilly.
Steve: Amazing.
Sammi: She said, she's like, I just got married. I'm not going to let this man ruin my sparkle. Okay. I am shipping these to the U S no add ons.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: We can't have add ons, but that's okay.
Steve: Hey, we'll take what we can get in in these these dire times that we're living through.
Sammi: That's okay. I'm okay.
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: ah
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: But yeah, I'm excited about this week, and it's kind of fun to just sort of like spin the wheel and ah look at films that are are good at maybe helping us understand the current state of things and what we're going through.
Sammi: Yes.
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: And it's especially fun because ah this movie is old as shit. It's like,
Sammi: And it was your idea. And I'm so glad i want to give you i want to give you credit because it was so good.
Steve: Oh, yeah. ah It was my idea. That's why it's so good.
Sammi: I was like, there's a couple that I have also suggested or we mutually suggested, but this was one that I had never seen. Sorry, you can keep introing it, but I just wanted to give you credit.
Steve: No, no. i Thank you. Thank you. No, I really, because we were talking about different different movies, and I don't want to list them all off because you know maybe maybe we'll end up doing some more of these, but ah I was like, oh, we got to do a face in the crowd because you know it's 70 years old, and it's one of those movies where there's there's clear cultural touchstones at the time, which I'm sure we'll discuss, and then
Sammi: You're welcome.
Steve: As you move through the decades, it's like, oh, we've learned nothing. And these things keep happening. And that's the joy of modern living is every new horror is just an old horror that's been reheated in in some way, shape or form.
Steve: And this this is great because we get to talk about how Andy Griffith was the first influencer.
Sammi: Yes.
Sammi: Yeah. Okay. Wait, what was my letterboxd review? Now I'm trying to remember. Hold on. I was really proud of it. um Let me find it.
Steve: Are we even friends on Letterboxd?
Sammi: I don't know.
Steve: How is that?
Sammi: You should be.
Steve: I'm going to be.
Sammi: um
Steve: going to find you.
Sammi: Well, it's funny. I just started letterboxd account.
Steve: It sounded ominous. I'm going to find you, Sammy.
Sammi: Oh, I'm going to be. It's just Sammy Ditto, like where i it is everywhere. And that's not a secret to anybody.
Steve: Yeah, that's that literally what I just searched for because I figured that was you.
Sammi: You're like, I'm guessing it's going to be that. Yeah, my review said, um it's like, what would happen if the guy from being there was a dick? Which I thought was a pretty good review. ah
Steve: Pretty much. like That nails it.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: That nails it.
Sammi: Thank you. I was really proud of that. Like I thought of that and I was like, that's the review. um So I think what we should do is we could do like, this is what I've done in the past. I mean, you do the movie podcast, so you're the expert.
Sammi: But what I'm thinking we should do is like have maybe ah short, mostly non-spoilery synopsis and then kind of say, if you don't want to know anything else,
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
Sammi: We're going to spoil it. And I tend to reference other movies alongside movies that I watch. So there are just spoilers abound. So if you don't like that kind of stuff, if you're allergic to that, I'll put a list of other things I reference, I guess, in the show notes.
Steve: Yeah. I think, and the cool thing about this is, it's pretty damn straightforward. And it is, ah a so a star is born.
Sammi: It is very straightforward. Yeah.
Steve: Oh no, that star is an asshole.
Sammi: it's It's a milkshake duck movie.
Steve: And it yeah Truly, truly it is Milkshake Duck the movie. ah But yeah, it it stars Andy Griffith as Lonesome Rhodes, a name that is coined by a woman who does like ah a, it's almost like a man on the street type of radio show, or I guess a woman on the street in this case.
Steve: And her thing is, there's there's you know interesting people all over the place. You just got to find their stories. And she calls calls it a face in the crowd. And it's this... small time, uh, like Northern Arkansas, uh, radio show on a family owned radio station.
Steve: And, uh, it's, it's this cool little concept she has. They're not making a lot of money. They're not, they're not really doing a lot, but she's committed to the idea. She decides to go to the jail to interview some, some people that have been arrested.
Steve: And one of the people that was arrested was a drunk drifter, uh, played by Andy Griffith. And she, uh, She finds out that he's got a guitar and he can play guitar, so she wants him to play a song.
Steve: And wouldn't you know, ah he's a very charismatic fellow and he can you know play this guitar of his and she records him on the radio. uh, plays the the recording on the radio and we've got a hit on our hands.
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: Wouldn't you know? Wouldn't you know? And the thing is, is old lonesome roads is, uh, as, as she coins him, because his name is like, what is it? Lawrence or something.
Sammi: Yeah, something like that.
Steve: and it it doesn't, doesn't work as well.
Sammi: Every once in a while when they said his name in the movie, i was like, who?
Steve: Uh,
Sammi: And then I was like, oh, Lonesome Runes.
Steve: Yeah. But really it follows this line of logic that is quite simple, which is if you are a charismatic, entertaining populist, you know, um, that doesn't make you good at leading other people.
Steve: And, uh, uh, Mr. Kazan who directed this film, he actually, he wrote a little bit about it, uh, decades after its release. This was a huge flop when it came out, by the way, uh,
Sammi: That's so wild to me.
Steve: Yeah, because it was one of those things where it's just like, this could never happen.
Sammi: That's so wild to me.
Steve: It's like, well...
Sammi: yeah
Steve: ah But he wrote that, and and I quote, the qualities in a man which enable him to make money are not related to those necessary to govern well, guide a nation, or provide wisdom to others.
Steve: So if that is not like the perfect encapsulation of not only this movie, but you know the general state of everything... That's pretty much it.
Steve: And wouldn't you know, we follow the meteoric rise of Mr. Lonesome Rhodes, and we get to see that he's not some just down on his luck drunk drifter. I mean, he is, ah but he's a manipulative asshole.
Sammi: Mm-hmm.
Steve: And. He is playing a character, essentially. Gee golly willaker, I'm just a southern boy and ah boy howdy, you know you know, I don't like these here politicians and these here city folks and their big city ways, blah blah blah, while he's like hawking vitamin pills and shit.
Steve: And what he ends up doing is, you know, he's he's playing both sides of things. He's playing these suits at the, at you know, ah the big New York station that ends up picking him up and then the the Nashville station that ends up picking him up.
Steve: And he's playing the people. that he's speaking to. You know, he's looking directly into the camera. He's giving his his folksy knowledge. He's playing his song.
Steve: Oh, guitar's better than a woman. Like, whatever he does. This whole thing, this whole shtick. And people buy into it. And they keep buying into it.
Steve: And we get to see kind of the repercussions of that. And at first, it's kind of it's kind of fun, right? Like there's a part where he's just like, man, that sheriff sure is a dog.
Steve: Would be funny if we all brought our dogs to the sheriff's house. And then cut to everybody's bringing their dogs to the sheriff's like, Oh, geez. Ha ha. We all have a good laugh.
Steve: Or he he tells this little anecdote about how You know, a firm mattress. I hear it's better for your backs. Why don't we get rid of it? I'll just sleep on the floor. Her, her, her, her, her.
Steve: And then you've got all these people like running to buy like his endorsed mattresses. This is this his whole thing. And it gets worse and worse and worse. And he realizes how much power he has over people ah because it's it's not it's not about like explaining like your your value or or anything like that.
Steve: It's about making folks love you. And then they'll follow the ends of the earth.
Sammi: Mm-hmm.
Steve: And if this sounds familiar, well, it is. Maybe it's the story of ah you know a person who plays a great businessman on TV, even though he's not really a great businessman.
Steve: And you know in the background, he's filing for bankruptcy. He's defrauding folks. He's defrauding charities. and But everybody thinks he's just one of the guys, you know?
Steve: he's did The president's just like me. He pisses in a golden toilet. what What's their... ah Yeah, this is a wonderful indictment of the contemporary political class and also influencer culture.
Steve: And I would argue with the proliferation of social media and everyone is always on. You're always on, you know whether it's 24-hour news or it's TikTok or it's wherever, you're always in front of an audience.
Steve: And when you you create these characters, you know all of these politicians, they are playing characters. And then we buy into it that this is just who they really are when it's not at all.
Steve: And it's transparently infuriating. So that's a face in the crowd. And that's today. How'd I do?
Sammi: Bye, everybody. no um Yeah, I was like taking some quick notes when you were. Thank you for the synopsis.
Steve: Of course.
Sammi: That was really helpful. I think we're just going to dive in, obviously.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: um Yeah, I think one thing that's really interesting is you you can see those, you know. I think right away, you know that this is someone who's, like, corruptible. It's not like... There's sometimes, you know, when you watch movies like this or hear about stories like this, it's like, they could never go down that road. And then it's like, oh, with enough money and enough power, you too will...
Sammi: be corrupted but it's like no he was kind of always a shithead he was always a shithead he's just good at covering it up which i like that kind of story more because i think it's more realistic um not to say that people i i just i don't fully i guess i'll get your opinion and this is mine but
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: I don't fully buy in when people say, you know, like, oh yeah, if you had this much money and power and what, like you would be corrupted and you would do these things. I just think that there are people who are more interested in in that kind of thing or will exploit at any level they're at.
Sammi: And I don't think the money changes them. I think it just like augments who they already are. And I think, you know, Lonesome Roads is a really good example of a character like that. Like we see throughout the movie, like past evidence of him being manipulative.
Sammi: It's like, oh, the next, you know, like his ex-wife pops up and she's like, oh, you're the new one. You know, it's like, okay, so he's always been like this.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: It's not like, because, you know, it's like, you see, don't know why that thing you do jumped into my mind first for this, but you know, it's like this little band in this little town and then they get famous and then it's like, Ooh, glamorous woman, you know, is attractive to me or whatever.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: And my, you know, small town girlfriend doesn't really feel the same. Like, it's not that kind of a thing.
Steve: Yeah. yeah
Sammi: It's like, no, he was always like that. And also after he was told you're looking at a 17 year old, he was still like, yeah, that's fine.
Steve: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: And they lay it out in the movie that that's inappropriate. It wasn't just like, oh, well, it was 1957.
Steve: h
Sammi: They were like, they are children. You know, she's 17 and he's like, well, that's a very nice child, you know? And you're like, oh, well, then maybe he won't go there. And then he does anyway. And you're like, oh, yeah, because he's just a piece of shit.
Steve: Yeah, exactly.
Sammi: Yeah. Sure.
Steve: And that's the thing. I think, you know, maybe maybe you could become more corruptible once you get to a certain level of wealth just because you're you're your power grows with that wealth and then it's sort of unchecked, you know?
Sammi: Sure.
Steve: ah People always talk about having fuck you money.
Sammi: Right.
Steve: And it's literally like you you have gotten to a point of wealth where the general rules of society don't matter anymore for you.
Sammi: hu
Steve: and And and that's the thing. It's just like, oh, geez, why are poor people so poor? They just can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps. like, no, because being poor is expensive as shit.
Sammi: yeah
Steve: And you get to a certain level of wealth. And all of a sudden, the cost of anything which is weighted towards normal ass people goes. doesn't matter.
Steve: but So you can just live and function without having to worry about the day-to-day expenses.
Sammi: Mm-hmm.
Steve: And so if you think of money as, ah you know, it's it's a resource, it's fuel for being an asshole. So Lonesome Roads, the dirt poor broke drifter,
Steve: He he doesn't have power because he doesn't have wealth. And the moment that he starts to accumulate a little bit of money and more power and more influence, it just it's like, you know, kindling like feeding a fire, essentially.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: And he becomes just a bigger and bolder asshole who is who is willing to do anything. And he knows what he is.
Sammi: Right.
Steve: absolutely to his core. He's a manipulator and he knows it. And that's ultimately his undoing is because he's on camera and, or or, you know, being recorded audio, audio recording. And he's just like, yeah, all these people that listen to me are fucking idiot yokels.
Sammi: Yeah. He's just like, whatever. These hicks don't know anything, you know?
Steve: which comically is the one thing about this movie where I'm like, damn, that's unrealistic because, you know, as as Donald Trump famously said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would care.
Sammi: and you're like, oh,
Steve: And he continues to push the envelope on that to the point where it's so funny that there's people who, you know, love Donald Trump and and don't question anything that he does and support him just...
Steve: without fail, just whatever he does, they're fine with it. But then they call themselves conservative and there's like nothing he's doing is like some 1990s Bob Dole shit.
Steve: I assure you.
Sammi: Right. Right.
Steve: ah Cause I think your standard conservative is like, well, I disagree with you. And I think your policies fundamentally harm other people. So you're kind of an asshole, but at least you have an ideology.
Steve: And
Sammi: right
Steve: Now, with this sort of like right wing populism, there's no ideology. The ideology is is self enrichment and consolidation of power to fuel self enrichment.
Steve: And that's what you kind of see here with Lonesome Rhodes is that's what he's doing.
Sammi: Yes.
Steve: He's trying to consolidate his power. um But then, you know, you you would like to think that there is some way to undo these people. um But we but haven't gotten there yet, unfortunately.
Sammi: Yes. I need to grab books now. Hold on. I don't know where my book is. i need a I need a visual aid. Oh, golly.
Steve: Sammy's grabbing smart people books off the shelves, folks.
Sammi: I don't know where it is. um Is it below me?
Steve: We're wave around Adorno and Horkheimer at you motherfuckers.
Sammi: Ah, I have that too, I'm sure.
Steve: a
Sammi: no i was I was trying to find.
Steve: I don't know where my copy is. Who borrowed my Theodore Adorno?
Sammi: i was trying to find. hold on. If I don't find it quick, it's. This will bore people. Hold on. Hmm. I don't know. It's gone right now, but I promise you I have it. And it's all bookmarked to shit.
Sammi: um But last year, well, early this year, I read The Culture of Narcissism.
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Sammi: And I and a lot of things are coming to mind for me with that. But yeah, so my point with the. yeah, with the fuck you money stuff. It's like, I just, in my experience, the people who um reach, there are people who are not assholes at the core understand that there's only a certain level of success you need to reach and they don't necessarily have a desire beyond that.
Sammi: So when when it's like, oh, all of a sudden I got famous and all of a sudden I used it for evil, it's like, yeah, that's kind of part of the mechanism of the fame and the power and the wealth.
Steve: Oh
Sammi: That would be my argument. Not to say, I mean, obviously, oh my gosh, everyone was freaking out because Dolly Parton has kidney stones. ah Did you hear about that?
Steve: my God.
Sammi: bit Because like her sister like posted something and she was like, pray for I need prayer warriors.
Steve: no
Sammi: And people are like, are we losing her? And so she had to be like, no, I had kidney stones. I'm alive. It's okay. Everything's fine.
Steve: oh my god
Sammi: You know, it's like, but she's one of those people that, you know, people always talk about because it's like she could be a billionaire, but she gives so much of her money away that she is not a billionaire. Right. um And so it's like you have to if you have a certain level of fame, money, whatever,
Sammi: Yeah, you have to empower you have to be like actively rejecting that, I think, if you are someone who is interested in maintaining your humanity. um But I just my argument is I feel like a lot of people who aren't interested in that just don't have it to begin with.
Sammi: But maybe that's me being really a negative Nancy.
Steve: no
Sammi: I don't know. um But I'm trying to find my culture of narcissism notes as well. I know I have them somewhere. um But it's, yeah, i I think about that book a lot. i I thought about it a lot while I was, like, watching the movie. And I also thought about couple other things. Let me see.
Sammi: um But, yeah, the first sign of power, you kind of see, like, where it's like, okay, maybe he... Maybe he's redeemable or maybe he can be rehabilitated into like a better version of himself or whatever.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: It's like when the when the dogs show up, you know, and he sees what he can do. He was like, yeah, yeah, I did that. you know?
Sammi: And then it's like, and the train has left the station. You cannot go back from that moment. Like that's the moment that he for sure knew that like he could get people to do what he said.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: And it's like a thing that I think he always craved and he always wanted. and now he finally has the venue in which to do it. And, you know, um, oh my gosh, I'm forgetting, her name.
Sammi: Um,
Sammi: Who's the main... His his ah agent, basically. the The radio interviewer.
Steve: Oh, um we're we're doing really good here.
Sammi: What's her name?
Steve: um but mer mur Marie?
Sammi: We're doing... No!
Steve: Maria? what ah
Sammi: Marie?
Steve: Marie?
Sammi: Marsha.
Steve: Marsha, hey, there we go.
Sammi: Marsha. Okay, Marsha. Yeah, Marsha Jeffries. By the way, Walter Matthau. Seeing a young-ish Walter Matthau really confused me.
Steve: Oh, I know, right?
Sammi: Uh...
Steve: Because you think he was just like born looking like he was in Guampier Old Men?
Sammi: Yeah, you're just like, he's just always old, right? And I was like ah was like, this is the youngest I've ever seen Walter Matthau.
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
Sammi: But yeah, so Patricia Neal plays ah Marcia Jeffries. and by the way, she was married to Roald Dahl. Did you know that?
Steve: Oh, I did not know that.
Sammi: Yeah, I know. i was like, that's pretty cool. Anyway. um But yeah, so she's, you know, kind of the the straight laced, you know, by the book, you know, interviewer who's like, hey, I think we got something here. We're going to make you a star, kid.
Sammi: And then Walter Matthau's character, Mel, kind of plays and he like went to school at Vanderbilt. So they keep calling him Vanderbilt. um but he's kind of like i don't know like the checks and balances in in the movie right like you know yeah you know this guy like get a load of this asshole he's like that guy like you really take him seriously like i think he sees him as a paycheck but he's like that nothing beyond that and and we shouldn't let him get too big for his britches right and like
Steve: Sure. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: You into the writer's room and they're like, you know, welcome to, you know, purgatory or whatever. um And, you know, I feel like they even did like the very like is this maybe the first place that they did that with like the dartboard with his face on it?
Sammi: Because you didn't they do that? Wasn't that in the writer's room?
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
Sammi: it Could this have been the origin of that meme like that made it through all these movies and TV shows?
Steve: I don't, it's it's hard because like, i don't know.
Sammi: so
Steve: i mean, i it might be. Yeah, yeah.
Sammi: ah Right?
Steve: I don't know.
Sammi: Because, I mean, you see it in everything. And I'm like like, what's the origin of that? Anyway. Okay, but I just thought about that just now. I was like, wait a minute. It was 1957. That could have been the first time they ever used that.
Sammi: um But yeah, so so we've got like this this cast of characters, and then it's like these executives start coming in, right? So it's like there was like this British guy who said something like, um you know, TV is the best form of mass per persuasion there is.
Sammi: This is kind of like... This is kind of like the sound of music, but instead of for talkies, it's for TV, right? It's like it's exploring this new medium.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Sammi: It's like, okay, this is something that's piping directly into people's homes. Gosh, when you hear the ratings numbers on this movie, you're like, wow, remember when ratings were big? Because I wasn't splintered across all these channels.
Sammi: It's so weird to hear it. Like, I think he said like 41 or something like that. and I was like, holy shit. um But, you know, so it's like they're they're having this conversation about like this newfound technology and here's the way that we're using it. And it's, you know, it's in everybody's homes. We can have this mass persuasion.
Sammi: And here's this really likable guy. So, yes, he's manipulative, but also they are using him to sell products. So, you know, they have this mattress company come in and they're like, we want you to advertise this mattress.
Sammi: And even though he talks shit about it, he's so likable. You know, no no publicity is bad publicity. And they just sell a ton of mattresses. And of course, Lonesome Rhodes is like, I have integrity.
Sammi: Like you said, you know, like I'm a man of integrity.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: And then he's like, but like pseudoscience. Yeah, I'm the first Alex Jones. Sign me up for that shit. I would love to drink this.
Steve: I love the energy from my vitamins.
Sammi: Yeah, it's like, this is just sugar, you know? And he's like, hmm, yeah, it's full of it's full of energy bites or whatever. You know, he's just like, um yeah, so these segments are fantastic. Whatever weird fake shit they talked about in there.
Sammi: But yeah, I mean, you see him kind of like, he starts as rough around the edges and... is someone who can sell these things because he feels relatable. He feels like a reflection of the people watching the show.
Sammi: He's got a lot of charisma. And by the way, I just need to say, i am angry. I watched this movie and it made me viscerally angry that Andy Griffith did not get more roles like this because I, ah we didn't even mention it.
Steve: he
Steve: I know, right? He's perfect.
Sammi: He's phenomenal. Like the range is insane.
Steve: Well, and think about like culturally to who Andy Griffith is and what he rec represents, which is like the aw shucks, gee whiz, like this kind of like salt of the earth guy, moral compass.
Sammi: Yeah.
Sammi: Moral compass. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: And to play this role in 1957 is just it's perfect casting. Like you could not do better.
Sammi: He's it's so meaty. It's so good. And it's sad, right? Because so this movie came out like three years before the Andy Griffith show, like three years before he got typecast.
Sammi: ah And then, you know, and then there's Matlock. basically the same vibe right and i read on his wikipedia page like because i was like god has he done other stuff like this because i want to watch more stuff like this and he did some movie i can't remember what it was in like the 80s or something like that where he played kind of an asshole and people didn't like it because they were like this is not the andy griffith i know yeah
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Steve: Not my boy Andy. Yeah.
Sammi: he's not from Mayberry, you know, whatever. And like, people were upset about it. And I'm like, how much did we miss out on? I mean, what an amazing career, you know, and no one has a bad word to say about him, right?
Steve: Sure.
Sammi: Like consummate professional, great person, like, you know, good human being, two unbelievably successful shows. Like that's quite a life to live.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: But I just, I like, I watched this and it made me like, what if? Like, he could have been huge, you know?
Steve: who
Sammi: It's just like, you know, I don't know.
Steve: yeah Oh, absolutely.
Sammi: Like, when I think about like the, it made me think about like Marlon Brando or, you know what i mean? Like, there are Citizen Kane-y elements in the movie, you know, this rise and fall and all that.
Sammi: And I'm like, ah you could have done so many more interesting things not to say listen I watched a lot of the Andy Griffith show as a kid because we didn't have cable so I watched it a lot um but like man you know it's like I always thought he was a good actor I think he's very likable and a great actor but I just had no idea what he was capable of and it was ah
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: it was great to see it was so great to see
Steve: No, he he is so perfect in this. And I think part of the reason why is, so this was written by Bud Schulberg, who I think he's most famous for writing On the Waterfront, which I don't i don't know for sure, but it came out a few years before A Face in the Crowd.
Sammi: ah
Steve: So I assume that On the Waterfront is what allowed him to do A Face in the Crowd. But i The way that the Lonesome Roads character was initially written was a little more one-dimensional.
Steve: ah So he was he was just an asshole. And I think by by casting Andy Griffith and by Ilya Kazan, you know...
Sammi: Oh, wow.
Steve: ah sort of softening those edges. That's what makes the movie so damn good. It's, it's the central performance because you, you know, he's a bad guy. Like every single red flag is up.
Sammi: Mm-hmm. ahha
Steve: Every alarm bell is going off. but there's still something magnetic about him, you know? And, and he lures you in some of the little folksy routines he does. just like, ladies, I know when your man goes off to work, he doesn't appreciate you working hard in the kitchen and blah, blah, blah. You're like, yeah, load some roads.
Steve: and then But it's it's all part of this greater scheme. um And that's how people like him, narcissists and the like, they they draw you in with that. And Andy Griffith is able to tap into that perfectly.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: ah And it it that's what makes the movie so special. Because I love a movie where someone is clearly a piece of shit, but you're like, ah, but there's something about him.
Sammi: Yeah.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: you know it's this is This is what I always say about Donald Trump. If I could wave a magic wand... Donald Trump is not the president and he has zero power and zero influence, but he's still allowed to go around and do his little riffs and his little goofs because every time he talks, I'm just like, the guy's hilarious.
Sammi: my favorite My favorite thing that I still have been stuck on is when like those astronauts were still stuck in space, and he said something like, well, I wonder if they'll like fall in love up there.
Steve: You gotta hand to him.
Steve: Yeah, I know, right? It's so weird.
Sammi: was like, why are you writing fan fiction about real people?
Steve: And he just says it like, it's like it's always an aside with him, and it's the most unhinged shit.
Sammi: What's happening? Yeah.
Steve: But it's it's so compelling. And that's why people are like, oh, well, just you wait, because after Trump's gone, it's going to be Vance or Josh Hawley or something like that or ah yeah Jim Jordan. It's like, no, these guys, they don't have, as the kids would say, the riz.
Steve: There's no riz.
Sammi: Right.
Steve: Trump's got the riz.
Sammi: Andy Griffith's got the riz.
Steve: OK, Andy Griffith has got the riz. Loads of Rose has got the riz. That's how he gets away with being a dick.
Sammi: Yeah, he's so he's so good.
Steve: It's like that's it.
Sammi: And also there are some moments where you're like, is he being earnest? Like that feels real.
Steve: Yeah,
Sammi: Like, you know, when he says things like, well, because um like they crowdfunded basically a bunch of money to like to like help out this family.
Sammi: Right. And like get him a new house and stuff.
Steve: yeah yeah
Sammi: So there were things that he did. And it wasn't like he was kind of doing televangelist types of techniques, but it was for this community good.
Sammi: and there were moments where he was like, I want to do this for the people or like, you know, said, seemed to turn a corner and try to reform his ways and tell Marsha like I love you and I want to marry you and then it's like the next day he gets married to a 17 year old and you're like oh he tricked me that son of a bitch um I should also mention right now I'm currently listening to the book In the Garden of Beasts for no and are you are you familiar
Steve: who
Steve: Yeah.
Steve: Ooh. I am familiar.
Sammi: Yes, Eric Larson in the Garden of Beasts. I'll put it in the show notes for no reason whatsoever. I brought that up. There's no weird things that have to do with anything else. Why I brought that up.
Sammi: But that's been really interesting to listen to that and watch this movie at the same time. And I knew what we'd be talking about. I'm like, because it's just it's these people who are in We'll just, you know, they're in Berlin at a very interesting time to be in Berlin.
Sammi: This was like 1933, 1934, I think it's covers a year.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: um And you see certain people start to become a little bit more powerful. Yeah. and And, it's interesting to hear them talk about, like you're saying, like the charisma of certain people, the energy that certain people give off, you know, how much they want to be around them or not around them, just like they're anybody else. It's just a really odd.
Sammi: It's a, it's a really interesting account. I can't believe how many records they kept. that, you know, he was able to share, but it's pretty fascinating.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: I mean, he was an ambassador, so that it's it covers like the family of this ambassador and um in Berlin, an American ambassador. But anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there as something that might be something you be interesting.
Sammi: But yeah, I mean, one thing I don't really... i haven't really watched any of Andy Griffith's monologues that he did like before this movie, which obviously would be, I'm assuming, the reason that he got cast.
Steve: the
Sammi: Because that's basically what his role is, right?
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: He did a bunch of monologues.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: But he is, like in real life and in most of the things that he... did very likable like we're saying you know so yeah it's like it just he just like adjusted the knob just enough to yeah make him this really unlikable person it it is it's like an it's always sunny type of feel where you're like god i just can't stop watching this asshole yeah
Steve: yeah
Steve: yeah Yes, um that's that's exactly it.
Sammi: It's just so good. Yeah. And I mean, there's a couple other things. Let me see. um There's a couple other moments that I wanted to talk about. Yeah.
Sammi: yeah So this was another thing that was really interesting. um They talked about politics then, you know, so it's like, You see you see like the seeds of like these little things that they're doing.
Sammi: And then it's like, OK, now it's going to sponsorships. OK, now the show is getting bigger. Now it's got like this national audience. Right. And now we're influencing the way politician, you know, like who we're going to promote for politicians.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: um And there was a quote in the movie where he said, like, politics is people. And I was like, damn, right. Damn right. It is. um And yeah, I feel like you can see the culmination of, I mean, 30 years later, ah you know, an actor becoming president is not too shocking when you see it it feels like a very prophetic movie. And now, you know, it's like the culture of narcissism kind of does the same thing. The book covers like this idea of
Sammi: Well, I mean, all kinds of different stuff. But um one of the things that gets talked about in the culture of narcissism is this idea of like the navel gazey, you know, self-reflection and a desire to be known, a fear of history and embracing of the future.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: All of these things that we seem to... ah like in social media and on TV um that just become attractive to people. And it's not necessarily about the individual, but it's about like the culture that supports it.
Sammi: It's a little about the individuals too. But um yeah, I think there's so much that that you can see in this movie with... that rise in that amplification where even, i mean, i don't know.
Sammi: I'm trying to think of a year where we thought that wasn't possible. I guess 2016. We were like, well, not going to
Steve: yeah
Sammi: That would be totally nuts. um We just have to worry about the living ham sandwich Scott Walker. And that's ah that would be the worst thing, um which is just so funny to think a man with absolutely no risk whatsoever.
Steve: ah
Sammi: um Negative risk if that's possible. but
Steve: Oh, no Riz at all.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: No Riz at all.
Sammi: Yeah. And I mean, gosh, I what are some of your i mean, what are some of your favorite moments in this movie?
Steve: Ugh.
Sammi: Anything you want to point out that we haven't covered?
Steve: I kind of love, so we mentioned that he's sort of like climbing the the media rungs, right?
Sammi: I'm like going through.
Steve: And the scene for me that really solidifies who this character is and what he's capable of is he is offered $500 a week to do TV in Nashville.
Steve: And he does this folksy sort of backwards negotiation where he's like, well, golly gee, I might not like it in the big city. I don't want to run off on you or anything like that. So why don't you just let me do the show for free? And if it's successful, then give me a thousand dollars a week. And they're like, yeah, sure.
Steve: And then he goes around and the the very first like live broadcast that he does, he stops what he's doing. and And instead of just like addressing the audience and letting the camera sort of like meet his gaze or anything, he walks directly up to the camera, puts his hat on the camera, and literally looks into the iris of the lens and speaks directly to the people that he wants to manipulate.
Steve: And it is like the most powerful thing. ah And again, we go back to like just talking about how I was joking with. beginning of this the show was just like oh yeah he was the he was the first influencer but no really like how many people are just out there you know hawking tummy tea and boner pills looking directly into their phone and saying like yeah buy this supplement on the tiktok shop and your hair will stop falling out and all of that stuff.
Steve: and And so many people have built personas and gained either you know wealth or political plow power or influence by looking directly into a camera and being like, hey, it's me, a normal, real guy.
Steve: you know ah so that just like, man, that really resonated with me. I was like, okay, this this is the difference between like a good movie and a great movie. And we've officially hit great movie territory.
Sammi: Yeah, the whole movie felt that way to me for sure. Like it took a while to kind of take off, but I agree with you. when When you see him in the studio for the first time, and like one moment that I really like about that part is where when he said like something like, well, what is it that I'm supposed to be looking at? Which of these holes am I supposed to be looking at?
Sammi: And you see him like upscale in real time, right?
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: Like, That very much feels like when people will do those like YouTubers first videos ah versus their most recent video or their first TikTok versus their most recent TikTok.
Sammi: Like I've seen a lot of fatigue with people lately with the overly polished, um no longer relatable influencers that They all made popular.
Sammi: Like the reason they're unrelatable is because you gave them attention.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: And that's like hard for people to grasp. Like, I don't know how much you're into like the beauty, the beauty TikTok community.
Steve: Would it shock you to learn? Not very.
Sammi: But, you know, so beauty influencers, especially um on YouTube and TikTok, um have really, I mean, they have massive real estate on those platforms.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: Like beauty influencers on YouTube are like just, I mean, and feel like they were kind of one of the first waves of influencers who really like, made it big and understood how to do brand partnerships and how to grow an audience.
Steve: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: And of course they were some of the first people to have like large scale scandals. um But there's one woman and you might know who I'm talking about, Michaela on Tik TOK.
Sammi: And she's got like this, like really thick Boston accent and stuff. And people like, mean, I would say even like three or four years ago, like as she was still kind of coming up, maybe she had like a couple million followers. I think right now she just passed like 17 million or 18 million or something like that.
Sammi: um But people around that time I saw started talking about like i started noticing people talk about her because um it it was like around the same time that there were like, yeah,
Sammi: the fires in Maui and stuff. And so she had talked about like not going on like a brand trip to Hawaii and everybody was like really happy that she chose not to.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: And she was like, I just don't think it's a good look at the right time. And, and so a lot of people were saying things like, And I think she had made some other like choices that people had liked. So they were like, oh, she's so relatable. She's so good. Like, you know, she's one of us. Like, you know, she's one of the good ones. Right. Like we we we've made the right person famous.
Sammi: I saw a lot of people say things like that, like we made the right person famous. And she's been in a number of like scandals since then, which I mean, whatever, like just weird stuff. Like, did she Photoshop this? And is that really work?
Sammi: That product worked that well? Like, whatever. I don't know. I can't comment on those things. Like, that's her own business. um And she did a thing. This was maybe like two or three years ago where she was like complaining about her day. And she was like,
Sammi: she got She basically described working nine to five and she was like, try being an influencer for a day. And people got like so mad at her about that.
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Sammi: um But just recently, and I mean, that stuff is a job, you know, and people do get, especially on YouTube, you see a lot of burnout from people who just are like constantly pumping out content and trying to tend to the algorithm.
Sammi: But it is still such a privilege to do a job like that full time.
Steve: oh yeah
Sammi: So to complain about it, it's like, it's kind of, it's like, you got to touch grass. Like, what are you talking about? And this was maybe like a week ago.
Steve: Oh,
Sammi: She just did this big luxury haul on TikTok. And it was like $200,000 worth of luxury stuff.
Steve: oh God.
Sammi: And a lot of it was like kind of, in my opinion, kind of looked like shit.
Steve: I love that when rich people spend a lot of money on stuff that looks like garbage.
Sammi: You know,
Sammi: You're like, I'm like, okay, I don't know. It's like, I can't,
Sammi: I can't even think, I mean, there's a couple designer things maybe I would be interested in because the craftsmanship is good and it would last a long time, but it's like, I think... I mean, people who know me in real life know these kinds of things about me.
Sammi: i mean, I just got my dream car and it cost $10,000. ten thousand dollars Okay.
Steve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sammi: Like that's, and that was my dream car, $10,000 car. Okay. My dreams are very small and manageable. I don't know what I would do with a $200,000 luxury haul, but you know, it's just a bunch of like,
Sammi: you know, overly branded Gucci stuff and animal print everything and whatever. And people were really upset about it because they're like this person that I thought was really relatable and I really loved. And I mean, i you know, in the beginning she had a very like bubbly, genuine personality. She also like looked like a normal person.
Steve: I am.
Sammi: So I think people are just like, you look like me, you know, like, and that's cool. And then she started like, overly like photoshopping her face and her body and people didn't like that and you know And just and yeah starting to complain about things that they couldn't relate to.
Sammi: um In another vein, there was, um oh, what was his name? Hub's Life, right? Are you familiar with Hub's Life? Yeah.
Steve: i am
Sammi: Yeah. So that, I figured you'd know at least. But yeah, Hub's Life, you know he built his whole platform on having a nine to five job. And then he got so popular that he quit his nine to five job, but then still pretended to go to work for a while.
Sammi: And people were like, what the fuck? And then he finally like admitted that he didn't have to go to work. And he still tried to get people interested in his daily routine. And people dropped off.
Sammi: They didn't like it anymore. And now he's like begging on TikTok Live for galaxies. It's like kind of embarrassing. Talk about a rise and fall. So, you know, it's like, yeah, once... You know, that's why I kind of mentioned the milkshake duck, you know, it's like, and and these are people we have a much wider window into their lives.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: It's like, you know, people have watched them for followed their stories for years, they have this parasocial relationship with them, they feel like they know them because of the frame of you know you know identity presentation that they've shown them and and they feel really close to them and then when they see something that you know kind of goes against that idea then they feel betrayed they're like oh my god but i thought you were like this but you're like this like that doesn't square with me and they're also not and they're being manipulated right the same way that lonesome roads is manipulating the audience like
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: all consumers of social media content are being manipulated, whether they're aware of it or not.
Steve: yeah
Sammi: It'll still influence you. That's why they're called influencers.
Steve: Exactly.
Sammi: And, you know, it's like they're being manipulated, but also they have, you know, it's important to recognize your role in making these people famous and giving them attention Like I often think about that scene in the Simpsons, you know, the just don't look just all the time.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: Like, you know, there's a treehouse of horror episode where like all these like signs in town, like the, you know, the lard lad donuts and all that, they come to life and they're like attacking the town. But the thing that you can do to get rid of them is just rid them of attention.
Sammi: um Actually, Keith from the Try Guys just posted that video. And I'm like, I think about this video all the time um because Ned from the Try Guys, can well, not from the Try Guys anymore, came back and was like, I'm going to do a podcast with my ex-wife and and do a series on rock bottom and
Steve: ha
Steve: Oh, yeah. That was weird.
Sammi: Can I tell you, it was very vindicating to me because he acted a lot like someone I know acts. And I was like, wow, it I I don't need to do a podcast like that now because I just watched it happen in real life. And that's exactly how it would go.
Sammi: And so it was very, very ah satisfying to me. He looked really bad. She looked amazing. So good for her.
Steve: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's funny for him, too, because you know that, like, if he's going to launch a podcast, how do you get anyone interested? It's like that basically has to be your first episode.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: Otherwise, no one's going to give a shit. um But of course, there's no way for him to do that and not look horrible. Like, what do you what do you do at that point?
Sammi: It was so bad, you know, but it's like, yeah, it's like we create, we, we provide the power to these mechanisms, just like the signs and the Simpsons, just like Keith knows, just like I know.
Sammi: um And just like people are saying about Michaela, the same idea with Lonesome Roads.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: It's like these eyeballs, the people giving this stuff attention are the people that give it the power. And if you just don't look, It takes the power away, but you have to do it on a mass scale for it to work appropriately.
Steve: Exactly.
Sammi: And the only way the spell was broken in a face in the crowd was a hot mic moment. That's the only reason he fell from grace.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, like the next secretary of transportation is going to be like Hawk to a girl or something. That's, that's the world that we live in.
Sammi: Yeah, it's it's just so weird, right?
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: It's like, I do think about, because like I just watched right before we recorded, i was having technical difficulties, like i said and I was crabby, and I was like, let's just watch ah last week tonight, the latest episode, because I just don't want to deal.
Sammi: So we watched the episode on, it's about presidential libraries, and they were you know they were talking about how, this is actually great too, because presidents have become influencers,
Sammi: um Even the ones who weren't trying to be right but um they they talk about like the archival section of the of the libraries and then like the front facing section that people go to and how there are so many records it's going to take up to 100 years.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: for them to be like fully categorized and done and ready for the public. So before that, and maybe even after that, it gives you this limited, biased view of the presidents in their own libraries that doesn't give you like the full history.
Sammi: And they talked about how, you know, like in the Clinton library, so the biggest scandal, you know, that rocked his presidency wasn't covered in the library.
Sammi: And that gives you a really incomplete view. But it also made me think about like, wow, you know, there were so many ah things that were disgraceful and career ending in the past.
Steve: yep
Sammi: Boy, do I miss that. Yeah. Those were really nice days, weren't they? Like, all it took was for Lone to Roams to say, like, these guys aren't very smart, you know, to to have people be like, well, I don't want to give you any money, you know. And then all of his narcissistic injury, you know, happens and he just starts, like, lashing out. And then you're like, oh, there's the sexism. There's the racism. Okay. Yeah.
Sammi: There's all the stuff you wanted to say, but, you know, but didn't. But I knew was there. Like it all came out when he's like alone in his, you know, big lonely house, like screaming that he's going to jump out a window if, you know, he doesn't get his way.
Steve: Yep.
Sammi: And Marsha's just like, just jump, just jump, which was like the best part of the fucking movie. I was like, yeah, I was like, if she doesn't tell him to jump, I'm going to be so mad.
Steve: ye
Sammi: You have to call his bluff.
Steve: It's so good.
Sammi: This guy is so full of shit.
Steve: Well, and it's such a great callback to earlier in the movie when he's just like ushering like random girls out of, out of his giant like penthouse apartment.
Sammi: Yeah.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: he's just like, Oh, come over, Marsha. I'm so in this big old house, just a country boy like me, 25 rooms. And I feel like i'm trapped and bla blah, blah, blah.
Steve: Then yeah. He's like, if you don't come over, i have a job. It's like, Oh, a manipulative narcissist piece of shit. Where have we seen this before? Everywhere.
Sammi: Yeah. She goes to rescue him.
Steve: And then,
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: She goes to rescue him. And how do you how do you break free from that? That's what you do when they say I'm going to jump.
Sammi: Just jump.
Steve: Fuck you. Jump.
Sammi: It was so good. And then you just have him, you did like the shot at the end, and he's just like wailing out the window.
Steve: Mm hmm.
Sammi: my God, it was so good. i was like, that's how it needed to end. And that's, you know, that's part of that like Citizen Kane feeling, you know, of just like, ah oh, and you're left with nothing. You have nothing. You are nothing. Yeah.
Sammi: It was just like so satisfying. Oh, yeah. I actually that when you I'm glad you mentioned I could shoot someone in the street because one of my notes was he said something like I could murder him like about like his audience or something like that.
Steve: Yep.
Sammi: And I was like, oh, that gives very much I could shoot someone in the street. Um, yeah.
Steve: Exactly.
Sammi: And he said, this whole country is just my own flock of sheep. Right. It's like, he doesn't hide it at all.
Steve: Exactly.
Sammi: Yeah. And then, yeah, as soon as he can't finesse someone, right. Like that's when he turns on him. It's like, if he, if he thinks he can finesse them, he'll be nice. But then as soon as he realizes he can't, it's like, that's when he started calling Marsha, like a female instead of a woman. I'm like, Oh, that started that long ago.
Sammi: He was like, this female? And I was like, okay, incel.
Steve: you
Sammi: was like, I understand what you're doing. um And yeah, he sees everybody turn against him. At the end, he goes, all of a sudden, I'm poison. It's like, yeah, you were kind of poison all along. You just like covered it up with like all this other stuff.
Sammi: So people didn't know. And it tasted sweet. And they you know they didn't know they were slowly being poisoned by you. But um Yeah, I'm really glad that this was like, I would like to do a little bit more like this. I think it was a good first movie. And I definitely have some recommendations for people if they want to watch this and they want to read more and think more.
Sammi: um Like I mentioned, being there is a nice palate cleanser. If you haven't watched that, that's what would happen if someone had a bunch of money and was cool and nice and good and and like TV in a good way.
Sammi: That's like one of my favorite like hope core movies. I don't know.
Sammi: um Welcome to me would be another recommendation kind of middle of the road there. Did you watch welcome to me?
Steve: I have not seen Welcome to Me.
Sammi: You've watched being there though, right? I'm just assuming.
Steve: I have watched Being There.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sammi: My mom's going be happy. I brought it up because that's one of her favorite movies.
Steve: Shout out Hal Ashby. Yeah.
Sammi: Yeah. um ah Welcome to me. I would also recommend ah it's ah what would happen if you ah if someone with borderline personality disorder had a bunch of money. Kind of interesting. ah It's a really Kristen Wiggs in it and it's it's weird, but it's like really good.
Sammi: um I yeah. And if you haven't watched Citizen Kane yet, what the hell? Just go do it. The film bros were right about that one. OK, I'll give them that one. They can have that. And then Network. I would love, I think we should do an episode on Network because that's just one of my all-time faves and I think it pairs well with this movie.
Sammi: um For books, I would recommend The Culture of Narcissism
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Sammi: and um
Steve: that's That's a number one.
Sammi: yeah Please read The Culture of Narcissus. I don't love all the stuff he talks about, especially with feminism, but I really like the book. It's a very important book I think everyone should read. um And yeah, in In the Garden of Beasts. And then for some reason I put this on the list.
Sammi: um I don't remember why, so maybe I won't mention it. and It'll be a mystery book. If I think of why I put it on there. I can't remember. i put on a book called Food for Not. It's all about, um it's really an interesting book.
Sammi: It's all about like ah food. Oh, I know why. Pseudoscience. That's why I put it on. um Because he's hawking these ah fake vitamins and stuff like that. um If you're interested to hear kind of like, how did we get here?
Sammi: um How did our food get the way it is? And why does nobody care? And what's going on with regulations? ah Food for Not talks about it from the perspective of what was happening in the 70s and what happened with like some pesticide regulation and um all that stuff and the scientification of food and newfangled bah bla blah, blah, blah.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: um Which I think ultimately had a major backlash and resulted in a bunch of distrust. And now ah influencers today um are jumping on that. And that's why I yell about beef tallow all the time.
Steve: that
Sammi: So that's why I put it on there. It's a great foundational book for people who are like, how did we get here? And how did we get people to listen to influencers over scientists? um It's a great explainer for that. So I will put that all in the show notes. twitter Do you have some recommendations for the people?
Steve: no i really I really like the culture of narcissism I think like that's that's the a number one text that you should you should dive into
Sammi: It's good. It's an easier read than you. It's kind of meaty, but like just just kind of like let it wash over you and like revisit it.
Steve: also this is the only podcast you're going to listen to where we're like yeah it's about a movie and it's a real doubter and it's all about how the world's falling apart right now and also here's some books you should read
Sammi: Yeah, well, we know our audience.
Steve: yeah yeah
Sammi: OK, nerds, here's here's your assignment. Here are your homework assignments. Any other movies you want to recommend? What else are we going to cover? What do you want to cover?
Steve: well i i would like to recommend but also i'd like to cover i want to do network maybe maybe that could be the next one that we do so i feel like it's a really good companion piece to this yeah it is it is that's what i'm saying like
Sammi: Yeah. Yeah.
Sammi: That's what I just said.
Sammi: I just said. Oh, look at that. Leave it to a man to act it like it was his idea.
Steve: it's not It's not my idea.
Sammi: For the record, I recommend a network.
Steve: It's your idea. Yeah, yeah.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: You recommend a network. No, network is like one of my all-time favorites.
Sammi: It's such a good movie and I haven't watched it in so long.
Steve: Like you said, it's a great companion piece.
Sammi: So I think, I think it, yeah, I think it weighs really well. and It's also like, what would yeah. Some of it has to do with if you had this influence and platform and maybe you still had a conscience, what would you do?
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: Right? Like, how would you use it? I think it's a great, um, a great thinker for that.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: So yeah, but we'll cover that next and we'll see when we get, we'll get back to some of the sillies. Um, but I will, oh,
Steve: Oh, another good one that's a real bummer, and it's it's about like media and sensationization of ah ofes sensationalizing things. Have you ever seen Ace in the Hole?
Sammi: No. so
Steve: Ace in the Hole. You should look that one up.
Sammi: Okay.
Steve: ah
Sammi: Ace in the hole, friends.
Steve: Network has got to be next, but Ace in the Hole is a good one, too.
Sammi: Okay. Ace in the hole will be our ace in the hole.
Steve: That's right.
Sammi: Oh, 1951.
Steve: we're we're Yeah, we're just I'm throwing out all the dusty-ass movies for you guys.
Sammi: Nice. and nice
Sammi: Maybe we'll throw in some, ah yeah, like Twilight Zone episodes or something like that, too, because I think there's plenty of good stuff in there.
Steve: Hell yeah.
Sammi: i just like um after Robert redford after robertber Redford died, I watched his episode and I was like, man, this is interesting because he plays death. So it's like...
Sammi: Kind of weird to watch this at the same time. um But we were just talking like today. um ah Tuck and I were talking about Andy Griffith and I was like talking about how mad I was, you know, not getting to see um him do more complex roles like this.
Sammi: And we got on the topic of like... you know he's like oh isn't it fun to watch actors in early roles though like before they blow up like how fun that is and he goes like the twilight zone was such a great show for that you know because you have like robert redford william shatner and like you know all these like really big stars who had like little roles in the show it's one of our favorite shows to watch and i was like what's the equivalent now like law and order i think i feel like it's like law and order um
Steve: Yeah,
Steve: yeah pretty much.
Sammi: So yeah, we'll we'll kind of I don't know, mix it old and new. We'll we'll see when we get back to it. And um we'll have a couple crossover episodes here, but I might start to throw this content over on a new podcast, The Horrors Persist. And I'll put um the notes for that in the show notes so you don't...
Sammi: lose us um it is gonna the website is the horrors.co if you go there now it doesn't look like much um but there is a blog about political violence over there um so there is amusing available there there will be episodes hopefully soon and you'll hear about it here first and then um it's just the horrors.co like dot co like do o t co everywhere um i've just parked everything like a good marketer does
Steve: There we go. Mm-hmm.
Steve: um
Steve: Look at you.
Sammi: but we'll, so we'll start to maybe have a couple of things over there and it'll grow. So, um, well, you know, we'll mostly stick to the reality and the silly, but we, we are capable of complex thought.
Steve: Yeah.
Sammi: Steve more than me today, but you know, we are capable of it.
Steve: Well...
Steve: that's That's my Lonesome Roads trait. is I might seem like a colossal dumbass, but underneath this dumbass surface, there's a brain. It's two little hamsters on two little wheels. Just kind of chugging along.
Sammi: See, and my brain is just, ah ah it's like, you know, Charlie in It's Always Sunny where he's got all of the things with the string.
Steve: Oh, yeah. All the lines attached to the things.
Sammi: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sammi: And I'm like, Pepe Sylvia, Pepe Sylvia. Like, that's me. That is my brain where I'm just like, this reminds me of this.
Steve: Oh.
Sammi: It reminds me of this. And when I watch this, and that's why, you know, I'll do like eight parts. movie reviews on TikTok where I'm like, here's 10 other things you need to watch if you like this.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: And you should also play The Sims, you know?
Steve: Mm-hmm.
Sammi: And that was about Don't Worry Darling. So...
Steve: Everybody should play The Sims. That's the major takeaway here.
Sammi: Everybody should play The Sims, um but, like, fuck that EA deal. ah
Steve: Yeah, that shit's weird.
Sammi: Yeah, that shit's weird. I can't wait to see what Simmers do with it. um But, yeah, we'll see you around soon, probably next week, for our review of Network, and then we'll kind of see where we go from there.
Sammi: And we will have a Jillybox for you, and we will have more Mormon Wives for you soon-ish, I think. um But until then, take care of yourselves and watch... Your content with discernment.
Steve: And don't do needle drugs.
Sammi: I have no idea if the music's playing.
Steve: It is. It's playing.
Steve: yeah See, it doesn't matter if we're discussing ah serious classic film or a reality dating show. The fact remains you shouldn't do needle drugs. And that's my influence. That's my face in the crowd moment.
Steve: I can only assume there'd be more needle drug deaths without us.
