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The Horrors Persist (Crossover Ep): A Face in the Crowd
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In light of the recent censorship on behalf of ABC/Disney, we decided it was a good time to talk about some important movies and other pieces related to censorship and the media. Yes, we will likely return to Bachelor Nation, but not right now! For the time being, consider this a crossover episode into a new podcast that will be launching soon - The Horrors Persist.
For our first episode, we cover A Face in the Crowd, a 1957 movie starring Andy Griffith. Steve describes it is as movie that covers the first influencer. Sammi describes it by saying it's like what Being There would be like if the main character was a dick. Either way, we hope you enjoy it!
You can watch this movie on Tubi if you're looking for a place to stream it, at least as of the time of this publishing. Some other things we cover:
- The Culture of Narcissism by Christopher Lasch
- Food for Nought, a book by Ross Hume Hall
- In the Garden of Beasts by Erik Larson
- Welcome to Me
- Citizen Kane
- Network
- Ace in the Hole
If you want to keep up with more horror and horror-adjacent work (this one is definitely adjacent, but horror-like based on the state of things), make sure you check out theorrors.co. There will be much more on there soon!
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Setup and Introduction
00:00:03
Sammi
The music's not playing. that of You know what? I actually think that's momentous.
00:00:08
Steve
They played for me the first time.
00:00:09
Sammi
It's playing for you? Wait, hold on.
00:00:10
Steve
Yeah.
00:00:11
Sammi
Oh, I can't hear it. Okay, hold on. I'm going to play it now. Is it playing?
00:00:15
Steve
Yeah. This is how every podcast should start.
00:00:18
Sammi
I hope you can hear this.
00:00:18
Steve
Is it on? I don't know if it's on.
00:00:19
Sammi
You're
00:00:22
Sammi
going have to tell me when to stop it. Hello?
00:00:24
Steve
Steve, is the music playing?
00:00:28
Sammi
Hello?
00:00:31
Steve
working.
00:00:33
Sammi
Wait, is it? Did it start now
00:00:35
Steve
It's playing. We have a theme song.
00:00:37
Sammi
I can't hear it.
00:00:41
Steve
thank
00:00:44
Sammi
Okay. I have no idea when that started or stopped, but I'm not stopping because...
00:00:50
Steve
i love I love this for us.
00:00:50
Sammi
Hello. I'm Sammy.
00:00:53
Steve
Oh, hello.
00:00:54
Sammi
I'm Sammy.
00:00:55
Steve
and I'm Steve.
00:00:56
Sammi
And you're listening to a cursed podcast or watching it.
00:00:59
Steve
love this. i love this
00:01:01
Sammi
um Yeah, this is actually kind of perfect because today, i don't know why I can't hear it, but today we are doing something completely different.
Streaming Services and Media Studies
00:01:12
Sammi
So I think it's like a really good time to talk about this because we you might have noticed, maybe you haven't, you've got things that you're doing with your life, um but we haven't been covering The Golden Bachelor.
00:01:22
Steve
Yeah.
00:01:26
Sammi
And we haven't gotten back to the secret lives of Mormon wives.
00:01:29
Steve
yeah and it's And it's not because we're deeply ageous and also hate Mormons, believe it or not.
00:01:33
Sammi
No. Well, yeah, it's because we were like, hey, censorship, that's fucked up. and There's a lot of other things that are going on that's fucked up. But, you know, um I was actually trying to watch Community today. I was trying to show Tuck Community for the first time. That was why I was grumpy, because I i could not access Peacock for the life of me.
00:01:53
Sammi
It was really annoying. Because we don't have Hulu right now. So, because we just, just we're like, we're going to stay off of Hulu for a while. And i we you and I have to mutually decide, like,
00:02:03
Sammi
if when we go back. Um, but right now in my family, in my household account, which maybe is owned by my parents, whatever, we totally don't share streaming services.
00:02:05
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:17
Steve
No, why would you do that?
00:02:18
Sammi
And I don't get texts from my mom saying, what's the HBO password again? Um,
00:02:22
Steve
Just like I don't pirate everything.
00:02:24
Sammi
Yeah, do that no, we do everything on the up and up here. But right now we don't have Hulu.
00:02:27
Steve
Yeah.
00:02:28
Sammi
So I was like, well, where can I show him community? And turns out it's on Peacock. And there are all kinds of technical difficulties today. And a bunch of people were reporting outages right when I wanted to watch it.
00:02:40
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:02:41
Sammi
So that made me really crabby on top of everything else. But what I was going to say is this, you know, what we're doing is basically what Britta did, you know, where she says, like, you know, I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty.
00:02:57
Sammi
Like, you know, we're like, well, now that they've come for Jimmy Kimmel, we're not going to cover it. No, but we we were like, let's talk about something different. Maybe we should watch some movies about like censorship in the media and talk about it.
00:03:09
Sammi
Because did you know that we both have?
00:03:11
Steve
The state of things.
00:03:12
Sammi
Well, yeah, but also, did you know we have master's degrees in media studies? Why?
00:03:17
Steve
We do.
00:03:18
Sammi
I don't know.
00:03:18
Steve
We do.
00:03:19
Sammi
But we do. So i was like.
00:03:20
Steve
And what do we use those for?
00:03:22
Sammi
Talking shit.
00:03:23
Steve
Talking about The Bachelor mostly. That's good.
00:03:24
Sammi
Yeah.
00:03:27
Steve
No, this is actually right in my wheelhouse. because ah So, you know, I talk The Bachelor with Sammy. And believe it or not, I am a full-time weekly podcasting man ah with a podcast called Optimism Vaccine, where we we talk about movies.
00:03:43
Sammi
Yes.
00:03:46
Steve
ah So this is this is a thing that I love to do. And now I get to do it here. So this is great.
00:03:50
Sammi
Yes, and for those of you who have listened to this or watched this in the past couple years, you might not know that Pop Culture Diner was intended to be like this larger catch-all for many different shows.
00:04:05
Sammi
So i even like I don't even know if they I even have them anymore, but I was going to cover Riverdale with somebody, and then they had to like go to law school or whatever.
00:04:16
Steve
Boo Boo
00:04:17
Sammi
ah And then I was covering horror movies with another friend and she had to like have a baby or whatever.
00:04:24
Steve
Boo That's
00:04:25
Sammi
Actually, that's like my favorite kid. I will be very honest about that.
00:04:29
Steve
I'll say they're fine I never met them i don't know if they're any good and
00:04:30
Sammi
Best kid. She is the best kid to live, in my opinion. um But yeah, so those were other things that were going to fall under it. I had talked to people. I even had like some video game related stuff, like video game movies and things like that.
00:04:47
Sammi
So it was going to be like, here are all the things at the diner. So I know I've explained this before, but for those who haven't heard this. So Rose Plate Special was like the bachelor um show within Pop Culture Diner.
00:05:01
Sammi
ah So, you know, we've been talking about like, are we going to keep doing it? What are we going to do? Is the franchise going to die? Are we going to stay till the bitter end? I feel like there's plenty of other Bachelor stuff we can cover and I do still want to keep covering it to some extent.
00:05:15
Sammi
So I think we'll kind of feel that out and decide when it's right. But skipping the Golden Bachelor just like felt spiritually right because Mel is like a fucking loser.
00:05:23
Steve
to
00:05:25
Sammi
Anyway, sorry. um Allegedly.
00:05:26
Steve
yeah yeah and hey jokes on you internet we could talk about all kinds of bullshit so ah
00:05:27
Sammi
Allegedly.
00:05:30
Sammi
hmm. That's the good thing. We seriously are both really well versed in yapping. And um so, yeah, we were talking about like, OK, let's talk about maybe censorship, media, things like that.
00:05:44
Sammi
And there is so I used to cover horror movies and there's a new thing that I'm working on launching.
New Podcast and Media Influences
00:05:51
Sammi
called The Horrors Persist and it's going to be its own podcast where I cover horror movies and books and all of that and I bring my friends with me to talk about that.
00:06:02
Sammi
So yes, I would consider this like a crossover episode.
00:06:03
Steve
Mm-hmm. they
00:06:06
Sammi
This is like our soft launch into doing more of those because obviously I'm going to invite Steve to do them with me when he wants to and I'm going to have a few other friends come with me too and we're going to cover a lot of that stuff.
00:06:18
Sammi
So To talk about the horrors today, what what we are going to cover, and actually before that, I'm going to share some good news. so Here's the best bright spot to come out of Bachelor Nation in the last day.
00:06:32
Sammi
Literally, I got this email today.
00:06:33
Steve
Okay. okay Yeah.
00:06:34
Sammi
i got this email today. The Jilly box. I know you were all worried for my well-being, my mental health. um Jilly is going to ship to the U.S. in the winter.
00:06:44
Steve
she She's defeating the tariffs.
00:06:47
Sammi
Thank you, Jilly.
00:06:48
Steve
Chili defeats Trump.
00:06:49
Sammi
Thank you, Jilly.
00:06:51
Steve
Amazing.
00:06:51
Sammi
She said, she's like, I just got married. I'm not going to let this man ruin my sparkle. Okay. I am shipping these to the U S no add ons.
00:06:57
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:07:01
Sammi
We can't have add ons, but that's okay.
00:07:03
Steve
Hey, we'll take what we can get in in these these dire times that we're living through.
00:07:04
Sammi
That's okay. I'm okay.
00:07:09
Sammi
Yes.
00:07:09
Steve
ah
00:07:10
Sammi
Yes.
00:07:10
Steve
But yeah, I'm excited about this week, and it's kind of fun to just sort of like spin the wheel and ah look at films that are are good at maybe helping us understand the current state of things and what we're going through.
00:07:13
Sammi
Yes.
00:07:25
Sammi
Yes.
00:07:27
Steve
And it's especially fun because ah this movie is old as shit. It's like,
00:07:32
Sammi
And it was your idea. And I'm so glad i want to give you i want to give you credit because it was so good.
00:07:34
Steve
Oh, yeah. ah It was my idea. That's why it's so good.
00:07:39
Sammi
I was like, there's a couple that I have also suggested or we mutually suggested, but this was one that I had never seen. Sorry, you can keep introing it, but I just wanted to give you credit.
00:07:49
Steve
No, no. i Thank you. Thank you. No, I really, because we were talking about different different movies, and I don't want to list them all off because you know maybe maybe we'll end up doing some more of these, but ah I was like, oh, we got to do a face in the crowd because you know it's 70 years old, and it's one of those movies where there's there's clear cultural touchstones at the time, which I'm sure we'll discuss, and then
00:07:51
Sammi
You're welcome.
00:08:14
Steve
As you move through the decades, it's like, oh, we've learned nothing. And these things keep happening. And that's the joy of modern living is every new horror is just an old horror that's been reheated in in some way, shape or form.
00:08:32
Steve
And this this is great because we get to talk about how Andy Griffith was the first influencer.
00:08:33
Sammi
Yes.
00:08:40
Sammi
Yeah. Okay. Wait, what was my letterboxd review? Now I'm trying to remember. Hold on. I was really proud of it. um Let me find it.
00:08:47
Steve
Are we even friends on Letterboxd?
00:08:49
Sammi
I don't know.
00:08:49
Steve
How is that?
00:08:49
Sammi
You should be.
00:08:50
Steve
I'm going to be.
00:08:51
Sammi
um
00:08:51
Steve
going to find you.
00:08:51
Sammi
Well, it's funny. I just started letterboxd account.
00:08:54
Steve
It sounded ominous. I'm going to find you, Sammy.
00:08:56
Sammi
Oh, I'm going to be. It's just Sammy Ditto, like where i it is everywhere. And that's not a secret to anybody.
00:09:01
Steve
Yeah, that's that literally what I just searched for because I figured that was you.
00:09:04
Sammi
You're like, I'm guessing it's going to be that. Yeah, my review said, um it's like, what would happen if the guy from being there was a dick? Which I thought was a pretty good review. ah
00:09:17
Steve
Pretty much. like That nails it.
00:09:18
Sammi
Yeah.
00:09:18
Steve
That nails it.
00:09:19
Sammi
Thank you. I was really proud of that. Like I thought of that and I was like, that's the review. um So I think what we should do is we could do like, this is what I've done in the past. I mean, you do the movie podcast, so you're the expert.
00:09:32
Sammi
But what I'm thinking we should do is like have maybe ah short, mostly non-spoilery synopsis and then kind of say, if you don't want to know anything else,
00:09:43
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:44
Sammi
We're going to spoil it. And I tend to reference other movies alongside movies that I watch. So there are just spoilers abound. So if you don't like that kind of stuff, if you're allergic to that, I'll put a list of other things I reference, I guess, in the show notes.
00:09:59
Steve
Yeah. I
Movie Analysis: 'A Face in the Crowd'
00:10:01
Steve
think, and the cool thing about this is, it's pretty damn straightforward. And it is, ah a so a star is born.
00:10:05
Sammi
It is very straightforward. Yeah.
00:10:07
Steve
Oh no, that star is an asshole.
00:10:10
Sammi
it's It's a milkshake duck movie.
00:10:10
Steve
And it yeah Truly, truly it is Milkshake Duck the movie. ah But yeah, it it stars Andy Griffith as Lonesome Rhodes, a name that is coined by a woman who does like ah a, it's almost like a man on the street type of radio show, or I guess a woman on the street in this case.
00:10:32
Steve
And her thing is, there's there's you know interesting people all over the place. You just got to find their stories. And she calls calls it a face in the crowd. And it's this... small time, uh, like Northern Arkansas, uh, radio show on a family owned radio station.
00:10:51
Steve
And, uh, it's, it's this cool little concept she has. They're not making a lot of money. They're not, they're not really doing a lot, but she's committed to the idea. She decides to go to the jail to interview some, some people that have been arrested.
00:11:03
Steve
And one of the people that was arrested was a drunk drifter, uh, played by Andy Griffith. And she, uh, She finds out that he's got a guitar and he can play guitar, so she wants him to play a song.
00:11:17
Steve
And wouldn't you know, ah he's a very charismatic fellow and he can you know play this guitar of his and she records him on the radio. uh, plays the the recording on the radio and we've got a hit on our hands.
00:11:31
Sammi
Yes.
00:11:32
Steve
Wouldn't you know? Wouldn't you know? And the thing is, is old lonesome roads is, uh, as, as she coins him, because his name is like, what is it? Lawrence or something.
00:11:42
Sammi
Yeah, something like that.
00:11:44
Steve
and it it doesn't, doesn't work as well.
00:11:45
Sammi
Every once in a while when they said his name in the movie, i was like, who?
00:11:46
Steve
Uh,
00:11:48
Sammi
And then I was like, oh, Lonesome Runes.
00:11:51
Steve
Yeah. But really it follows this line of logic that is quite simple, which is if you are a charismatic, entertaining populist, you know, um, that doesn't make you good at leading other people.
00:12:09
Steve
And, uh, uh, Mr. Kazan who directed this film, he actually, he wrote a little bit about it, uh, decades after its release. This was a huge flop when it came out, by the way, uh,
00:12:19
Sammi
That's so wild to me.
00:12:20
Steve
Yeah, because it was one of those things where it's just like, this could never happen.
00:12:20
Sammi
That's so wild to me.
00:12:24
Steve
It's like, well...
00:12:25
Sammi
yeah
00:12:26
Steve
ah But he wrote that, and and I quote, the qualities in a man which enable him to make money are not related to those necessary to govern well, guide a nation, or provide wisdom to others.
00:12:38
Steve
So if that is not like the perfect encapsulation of not only this movie, but you know the general state of everything... That's pretty much it.
00:12:50
Steve
And wouldn't you know, we follow the meteoric rise of Mr. Lonesome Rhodes, and we get to see that he's not some just down on his luck drunk drifter. I mean, he is, ah but he's a manipulative asshole.
00:13:06
Sammi
Mm-hmm.
00:13:06
Steve
And. He is playing a character, essentially. Gee golly willaker, I'm just a southern boy and ah boy howdy, you know you know, I don't like these here politicians and these here city folks and their big city ways, blah blah blah, while he's like hawking vitamin pills and shit.
00:13:29
Steve
And what he ends up doing is, you know, he's he's playing both sides of things. He's playing these suits at the, at you know, ah the big New York station that ends up picking him up and then the the Nashville station that ends up picking him up.
00:13:43
Steve
And he's playing the people. that he's speaking to. You know, he's looking directly into the camera. He's giving his his folksy knowledge. He's playing his song.
00:13:54
Steve
Oh, guitar's better than a woman. Like, whatever he does. This whole thing, this whole shtick. And people buy into it. And they keep buying into it.
00:14:05
Steve
And we get to see kind of the repercussions of that. And at first, it's kind of it's kind of fun, right? Like there's a part where he's just like, man, that sheriff sure is a dog.
00:14:17
Steve
Would be funny if we all brought our dogs to the sheriff's house. And then cut to everybody's bringing their dogs to the sheriff's like, Oh, geez. Ha ha. We all have a good laugh.
00:14:27
Steve
Or he he tells this little anecdote about how You know, a firm mattress. I hear it's better for your backs. Why don't we get rid of it? I'll just sleep on the floor. Her, her, her, her, her.
00:14:39
Steve
And then you've got all these people like running to buy like his endorsed mattresses. This is this his whole thing. And it gets worse and worse and worse. And he realizes how much power he has over people ah because it's it's not it's not about like explaining like your your value or or anything like that.
00:14:57
Steve
It's about making folks love you. And then they'll follow the ends of the earth.
00:15:00
Sammi
Mm-hmm.
00:15:02
Steve
And if this sounds familiar, well, it is. Maybe it's the story of ah you know a person who plays a great businessman on TV, even though he's not really a great businessman.
00:15:14
Steve
And you know in the background, he's filing for bankruptcy. He's defrauding folks. He's defrauding charities. and But everybody thinks he's just one of the guys, you know?
00:15:27
Steve
he's did The president's just like me. He pisses in a golden toilet. what What's their... ah Yeah, this is a wonderful indictment of the contemporary political class and also influencer culture.
00:15:42
Steve
And I would argue with the proliferation of social media and everyone is always on. You're always on, you know whether it's 24-hour news or it's TikTok or it's wherever, you're always in front of an audience.
00:15:57
Steve
And when you you create these characters, you know all of these politicians, they are playing characters. And then we buy into it that this is just who they really are when it's not at all.
00:16:12
Steve
And it's transparently infuriating. So that's a face in the crowd. And that's today. How'd I do?
00:16:23
Sammi
Bye, everybody. no um Yeah, I was like taking some quick notes when you were. Thank you for the synopsis.
00:16:28
Steve
Of course.
00:16:29
Sammi
That was really helpful. I think we're just going to dive in, obviously.
00:16:30
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:16:32
Sammi
um Yeah, I think one thing that's really interesting is you you can see those, you know. I think right away, you know that this is someone who's, like, corruptible. It's not like... There's sometimes, you know, when you watch movies like this or hear about stories like this, it's like, they could never go down that road. And then it's like, oh, with enough money and enough power, you too will...
00:16:55
Sammi
be corrupted but it's like no he was kind of always a shithead he was always a shithead he's just good at covering it up which i like that kind of story more because i think it's more realistic um not to say that people i i just i don't fully i guess i'll get your opinion and this is mine but
00:17:06
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:14
Sammi
I don't fully buy in when people say, you know, like, oh yeah, if you had this much money and power and what, like you would be corrupted and you would do these things. I just think that there are people who are more interested in in that kind of thing or will exploit at any level they're at.
00:17:34
Sammi
And I don't think the money changes them. I think it just like augments who they already are. And I think, you know, Lonesome Roads is a really good example of a character like that. Like we see throughout the movie, like past evidence of him being manipulative.
00:17:50
Sammi
It's like, oh, the next, you know, like his ex-wife pops up and she's like, oh, you're the new one. You know, it's like, okay, so he's always been like this.
00:17:57
Steve
Yeah.
00:17:59
Sammi
It's not like, because, you know, it's like, you see, don't know why that thing you do jumped into my mind first for this, but you know, it's like this little band in this little town and then they get famous and then it's like, Ooh, glamorous woman, you know, is attractive to me or whatever.
00:18:05
Steve
Yeah.
00:18:14
Sammi
And my, you know, small town girlfriend doesn't really feel the same. Like, it's not that kind of a thing.
00:18:19
Steve
Yeah. yeah
00:18:20
Sammi
It's like, no, he was always like that. And also after he was told you're looking at a 17 year old, he was still like, yeah, that's fine.
00:18:30
Steve
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:18:30
Sammi
And they lay it out in the movie that that's inappropriate. It wasn't just like, oh, well, it was 1957.
00:18:36
Steve
h
00:18:36
Sammi
They were like, they are children. You know, she's 17 and he's like, well, that's a very nice child, you know? And you're like, oh, well, then maybe he won't go there. And then he does anyway. And you're like, oh, yeah, because he's just a piece of shit.
00:18:48
Steve
Yeah, exactly.
00:18:49
Sammi
Yeah. Sure.
00:18:49
Steve
And that's the thing. I think, you know, maybe maybe you could become more corruptible once you get to a certain level of wealth just because you're you're your power grows with that wealth and then it's sort of unchecked, you know?
00:18:57
Sammi
Sure.
00:19:04
Steve
ah People always talk about having fuck you money.
00:19:08
Sammi
Right.
00:19:08
Steve
And it's literally like you you have gotten to a point of wealth where the general rules of society don't matter anymore for you.
00:19:17
Sammi
hu
00:19:18
Steve
and And and that's the thing. It's just like, oh, geez, why are poor people so poor? They just can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps. like, no, because being poor is expensive as shit.
00:19:27
Sammi
yeah
00:19:28
Steve
And you get to a certain level of wealth. And all of a sudden, the cost of anything which is weighted towards normal ass people goes. doesn't matter.
00:19:39
Steve
but So you can just live and function without having to worry about the day-to-day expenses.
00:19:39
Sammi
Mm-hmm.
00:19:46
Steve
And so if you think of money as, ah you know, it's it's a resource, it's fuel for being an asshole. So Lonesome Roads, the dirt poor broke drifter,
00:20:00
Steve
He he doesn't have power because he doesn't have wealth. And the moment that he starts to accumulate a little bit of money and more power and more influence, it just it's like, you know, kindling like feeding a fire, essentially.
00:20:15
Sammi
Yeah.
00:20:15
Steve
And he becomes just a bigger and bolder asshole who is who is willing to do anything. And he knows what he is.
00:20:24
Sammi
Right.
00:20:24
Steve
absolutely to his core. He's a manipulator and he knows it. And that's ultimately his undoing is because he's on camera and, or or, you know, being recorded audio, audio recording. And he's just like, yeah, all these people that listen to me are fucking idiot yokels.
00:20:40
Sammi
Yeah. He's just like, whatever. These hicks don't know anything, you know?
00:20:43
Steve
which comically is the one thing about this movie where I'm like, damn, that's unrealistic because, you know, as as Donald Trump famously said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would care.
00:20:43
Sammi
and you're like, oh,
00:20:57
Steve
And he continues to push the envelope on that to the point where it's so funny that there's people who, you know, love Donald Trump and and don't question anything that he does and support him just...
00:21:12
Steve
without fail, just whatever he does, they're fine with it. But then they call themselves conservative and there's like nothing he's doing is like some 1990s Bob Dole shit.
00:21:23
Steve
I assure you.
00:21:24
Sammi
Right. Right.
00:21:25
Steve
ah Cause I think your standard conservative is like, well, I disagree with you. And I think your policies fundamentally harm other people. So you're kind of an asshole, but at least you have an ideology.
00:21:39
Steve
And
00:21:39
Sammi
right
00:21:40
Steve
Now, with this sort of like right wing populism, there's no ideology. The ideology is is self enrichment and consolidation of power to fuel self enrichment.
00:21:54
Steve
And that's what you kind of see here with Lonesome Rhodes is that's what he's doing.
00:21:58
Sammi
Yes.
00:21:58
Steve
He's trying to consolidate his power. um But then, you know, you you would like to think that there is some way to undo these people. um But we but haven't gotten there yet, unfortunately.
00:22:10
Sammi
Yes. I need to grab books now. Hold on. I don't know where my book is. i need a I need a visual aid. Oh, golly.
00:22:21
Steve
Sammy's grabbing smart people books off the shelves, folks.
00:22:22
Sammi
I don't know where it is. um Is it below me?
00:22:26
Steve
We're wave around Adorno and Horkheimer at you motherfuckers.
00:22:29
Sammi
Ah, I have that too, I'm sure.
00:22:32
Steve
a
00:22:33
Sammi
no i was I was trying to find.
00:22:33
Steve
I don't know where my copy is. Who borrowed my Theodore Adorno?
00:22:38
Sammi
i was trying to find. hold on. If I don't find it quick, it's. This will bore people. Hold on. Hmm. I don't know. It's gone right now, but I promise you I have it. And it's all bookmarked to shit.
00:22:52
Sammi
um But last year, well, early this year, I read The Culture of Narcissism.
00:22:56
Steve
Oh, yeah.
00:22:56
Sammi
And I and a lot of things are coming to mind for me with that. But yeah, so my point with the. yeah, with the fuck you money stuff. It's like, I just, in my experience, the people who um reach, there are people who are not assholes at the core understand that there's only a certain level of success you need to reach and they don't necessarily have a desire beyond that.
00:23:21
Sammi
So when when it's like, oh, all of a sudden I got famous and all of a sudden I used it for evil, it's like, yeah, that's kind of part of the mechanism of the fame and the power and the wealth.
00:23:33
Steve
Oh
00:23:34
Sammi
That would be my argument. Not to say, I mean, obviously, oh my gosh, everyone was freaking out because Dolly Parton has kidney stones. ah Did you hear about that?
00:23:41
Steve
my God.
00:23:42
Sammi
bit Because like her sister like posted something and she was like, pray for I need prayer warriors.
00:23:43
Steve
no
00:23:48
Sammi
And people are like, are we losing her? And so she had to be like, no, I had kidney stones. I'm alive. It's okay. Everything's fine.
00:23:55
Steve
oh my god
00:23:55
Sammi
You know, it's like, but she's one of those people that, you know, people always talk about because it's like she could be a billionaire, but she gives so much of her money away that she is not a billionaire. Right. um And so it's like you have to if you have a certain level of fame, money, whatever,
00:24:14
Sammi
Yeah, you have to empower you have to be like actively rejecting that, I think, if you are someone who is interested in maintaining your humanity. um But I just my argument is I feel like a lot of people who aren't interested in that just don't have it to begin with.
Character and Media Influence
00:24:30
Sammi
But maybe that's me being really a negative Nancy.
00:24:30
Steve
no
00:24:32
Sammi
I don't know. um But I'm trying to find my culture of narcissism notes as well. I know I have them somewhere. um But it's, yeah, i I think about that book a lot. i I thought about it a lot while I was, like, watching the movie. And I also thought about couple other things. Let me see.
00:24:49
Sammi
um But, yeah, the first sign of power, you kind of see, like, where it's like, okay, maybe he... Maybe he's redeemable or maybe he can be rehabilitated into like a better version of himself or whatever.
00:25:01
Steve
Yeah.
00:25:02
Sammi
It's like when the when the dogs show up, you know, and he sees what he can do. He was like, yeah, yeah, I did that. you know?
00:25:12
Sammi
And then it's like, and the train has left the station. You cannot go back from that moment. Like that's the moment that he for sure knew that like he could get people to do what he said.
00:25:23
Steve
yeah
00:25:23
Sammi
And it's like a thing that I think he always craved and he always wanted. and now he finally has the venue in which to do it. And, you know, um, oh my gosh, I'm forgetting, her name.
00:25:37
Sammi
Um,
00:25:40
Sammi
Who's the main... His his ah agent, basically. the The radio interviewer.
00:25:46
Steve
Oh, um we're we're doing really good here.
00:25:47
Sammi
What's her name?
00:25:50
Steve
um but mer mur Marie?
00:25:50
Sammi
We're doing... No!
00:25:53
Steve
Maria? what ah
00:25:54
Sammi
Marie?
00:25:55
Steve
Marie?
00:25:55
Sammi
Marsha.
00:25:56
Steve
Marsha, hey, there we go.
00:25:58
Sammi
Marsha. Okay, Marsha. Yeah, Marsha Jeffries. By the way, Walter Matthau. Seeing a young-ish Walter Matthau really confused me.
00:26:07
Steve
Oh, I know, right?
00:26:08
Sammi
Uh...
00:26:08
Steve
Because you think he was just like born looking like he was in Guampier Old Men?
00:26:10
Sammi
Yeah, you're just like, he's just always old, right? And I was like ah was like, this is the youngest I've ever seen Walter Matthau.
00:26:12
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:16
Sammi
But yeah, so Patricia Neal plays ah Marcia Jeffries. and by the way, she was married to Roald Dahl. Did you know that?
00:26:25
Steve
Oh, I did not know that.
00:26:26
Sammi
Yeah, I know. i was like, that's pretty cool. Anyway. um But yeah, so she's, you know, kind of the the straight laced, you know, by the book, you know, interviewer who's like, hey, I think we got something here. We're going to make you a star, kid.
00:26:44
Sammi
And then Walter Matthau's character, Mel, kind of plays and he like went to school at Vanderbilt. So they keep calling him Vanderbilt. um but he's kind of like i don't know like the checks and balances in in the movie right like you know yeah you know this guy like get a load of this asshole he's like that guy like you really take him seriously like i think he sees him as a paycheck but he's like that nothing beyond that and and we shouldn't let him get too big for his britches right and like
00:26:57
Steve
Sure. Mm-hmm.
00:27:13
Sammi
You into the writer's room and they're like, you know, welcome to, you know, purgatory or whatever. um And, you know, I feel like they even did like the very like is this maybe the first place that they did that with like the dartboard with his face on it?
00:27:28
Sammi
Because you didn't they do that? Wasn't that in the writer's room?
00:27:29
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:30
Sammi
it Could this have been the origin of that meme like that made it through all these movies and TV shows?
00:27:33
Steve
I don't, it's it's hard because like, i don't know.
00:27:36
Sammi
so
00:27:37
Steve
i mean, i it might be. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:41
Sammi
ah Right?
00:27:41
Steve
I don't know.
00:27:41
Sammi
Because, I mean, you see it in everything. And I'm like like, what's the origin of that? Anyway. Okay, but I just thought about that just now. I was like, wait a minute. It was 1957. That could have been the first time they ever used that.
00:27:58
Sammi
um But yeah, so so we've got like this this cast of characters, and then it's like these executives start coming in, right? So it's like there was like this British guy who said something like, um you know, TV is the best form of mass per persuasion there is.
00:28:14
Sammi
This is kind of like... This is kind of like the sound of music, but instead of for talkies, it's for TV, right? It's like it's exploring this new medium.
00:28:22
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm.
00:28:25
Sammi
It's like, okay, this is something that's piping directly into people's homes. Gosh, when you hear the ratings numbers on this movie, you're like, wow, remember when ratings were big? Because I wasn't splintered across all these channels.
00:28:41
Sammi
It's so weird to hear it. Like, I think he said like 41 or something like that. and I was like, holy shit. um But, you know, so it's like they're they're having this conversation about like this newfound technology and here's the way that we're using it. And it's, you know, it's in everybody's homes. We can have this mass persuasion.
00:28:57
Sammi
And here's this really likable guy. So, yes, he's manipulative, but also they are using him to sell products. So, you know, they have this mattress company come in and they're like, we want you to advertise this mattress.
00:29:11
Sammi
And even though he talks shit about it, he's so likable. You know, no no publicity is bad publicity. And they just sell a ton of mattresses. And of course, Lonesome Rhodes is like, I have integrity.
00:29:23
Sammi
Like you said, you know, like I'm a man of integrity.
00:29:25
Steve
yeah
00:29:25
Sammi
And then he's like, but like pseudoscience. Yeah, I'm the first Alex Jones. Sign me up for that shit. I would love to drink this.
00:29:34
Steve
I love the energy from my vitamins.
00:29:37
Sammi
Yeah, it's like, this is just sugar, you know? And he's like, hmm, yeah, it's full of it's full of energy bites or whatever. You know, he's just like, um yeah, so these segments are fantastic. Whatever weird fake shit they talked about in there.
00:29:55
Sammi
But yeah, I mean, you see him kind of like, he starts as rough around the edges and... is someone who can sell these things because he feels relatable. He feels like a reflection of the people watching the show.
00:30:08
Sammi
He's got a lot of charisma. And by the way, I just need to say, i am angry. I watched this movie and it made me viscerally angry that Andy Griffith did not get more roles like this because I, ah we didn't even mention it.
00:30:17
Steve
he
00:30:21
Steve
I know, right? He's perfect.
00:30:24
Sammi
He's phenomenal. Like the range is insane.
00:30:26
Steve
Well, and think about like culturally to who Andy Griffith is and what he rec represents, which is like the aw shucks, gee whiz, like this kind of like salt of the earth guy, moral compass.
00:30:32
Sammi
Yeah.
00:30:39
Sammi
Moral compass. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:42
Steve
And to play this role in 1957 is just it's perfect casting. Like you could not do better.
00:30:48
Sammi
He's it's so meaty. It's so good. And it's sad, right? Because so this movie came out like three years before the Andy Griffith show, like three years before he got typecast.
00:31:00
Sammi
ah And then, you know, and then there's Matlock. basically the same vibe right and i read on his wikipedia page like because i was like god has he done other stuff like this because i want to watch more stuff like this and he did some movie i can't remember what it was in like the 80s or something like that where he played kind of an asshole and people didn't like it because they were like this is not the andy griffith i know yeah
00:31:05
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:24
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:31:27
Steve
Not my boy Andy. Yeah.
00:31:30
Sammi
he's not from Mayberry, you know, whatever. And like, people were upset about it. And I'm like, how much did we miss out on? I mean, what an amazing career, you know, and no one has a bad word to say about him, right?
00:31:40
Steve
Sure.
00:31:44
Sammi
Like consummate professional, great person, like, you know, good human being, two unbelievably successful shows. Like that's quite a life to live.
00:31:54
Steve
Yeah.
00:31:54
Sammi
But I just, I like, I watched this and it made me like, what if? Like, he could have been huge, you know?
00:32:03
Steve
who
00:32:05
Sammi
It's just like, you know, I don't know.
00:32:05
Steve
yeah Oh, absolutely.
00:32:08
Sammi
Like, when I think about like the, it made me think about like Marlon Brando or, you know what i mean? Like, there are Citizen Kane-y elements in the movie, you know, this rise and fall and all that.
00:32:22
Sammi
And I'm like, ah you could have done so many more interesting things not to say listen I watched a lot of the Andy Griffith show as a kid because we didn't have cable so I watched it a lot um but like man you know it's like I always thought he was a good actor I think he's very likable and a great actor but I just had no idea what he was capable of and it was ah
00:32:34
Steve
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:45
Steve
yeah
00:32:47
Sammi
it was great to see it was so great to see
00:32:49
Steve
No, he he is so perfect in this. And I think part of the reason why is, so this was written by Bud Schulberg, who I think he's most famous for writing On the Waterfront, which I don't i don't know for sure, but it came out a few years before A Face in the Crowd.
00:33:00
Sammi
ah
00:33:03
Steve
So I assume that On the Waterfront is what allowed him to do A Face in the Crowd. But i The way that the Lonesome Roads character was initially written was a little more one-dimensional.
00:33:18
Steve
ah So he was he was just an asshole. And I think by by casting Andy Griffith and by Ilya Kazan, you know...
00:33:23
Sammi
Oh, wow.
00:33:29
Steve
ah sort of softening those edges. That's what makes the movie so damn good. It's, it's the central performance because you, you know, he's a bad guy. Like every single red flag is up.
00:33:39
Sammi
Mm-hmm. ahha
00:33:41
Steve
Every alarm bell is going off. but there's still something magnetic about him, you know? And, and he lures you in some of the little folksy routines he does. just like, ladies, I know when your man goes off to work, he doesn't appreciate you working hard in the kitchen and blah, blah, blah. You're like, yeah, load some roads.
00:34:02
Steve
and then But it's it's all part of this greater scheme. um And that's how people like him, narcissists and the like, they they draw you in with that. And Andy Griffith is able to tap into that perfectly.
00:34:16
Sammi
Yeah.
00:34:16
Steve
ah And it it that's what makes the movie so special. Because I love a movie where someone is clearly a piece of shit, but you're like, ah, but there's something about him.
00:34:20
Sammi
Yeah.
00:34:26
Sammi
Yeah.
00:34:26
Steve
you know it's this is This is what I always say about Donald Trump. If I could wave a magic wand... Donald Trump is not the president and he has zero power and zero influence, but he's still allowed to go around and do his little riffs and his little goofs because every time he talks, I'm just like, the guy's hilarious.
00:34:46
Sammi
my favorite My favorite thing that I still have been stuck on is when like those astronauts were still stuck in space, and he said something like, well, I wonder if they'll like fall in love up there.
00:34:46
Steve
You gotta hand to him.
00:34:59
Steve
Yeah, I know, right? It's so weird.
00:35:02
Sammi
was like, why are you writing fan fiction about real people?
00:35:05
Steve
And he just says it like, it's like it's always an aside with him, and it's the most unhinged shit.
00:35:06
Sammi
What's happening? Yeah.
00:35:12
Steve
But it's it's so compelling. And that's why people are like, oh, well, just you wait, because after Trump's gone, it's going to be Vance or Josh Hawley or something like that or ah yeah Jim Jordan. It's like, no, these guys, they don't have, as the kids would say, the riz.
00:35:30
Steve
There's no riz.
00:35:31
Sammi
Right.
00:35:31
Steve
Trump's got the riz.
00:35:33
Sammi
Andy Griffith's got the riz.
00:35:33
Steve
OK, Andy Griffith has got the riz. Loads of Rose has got the riz. That's how he gets away with being a dick.
00:35:40
Sammi
Yeah, he's so he's so good.
00:35:40
Steve
It's like that's it.
00:35:42
Sammi
And also there are some moments where you're like, is he being earnest? Like that feels real.
00:35:46
Steve
Yeah,
00:35:47
Sammi
Like, you know, when he says things like, well, because um like they crowdfunded basically a bunch of money to like to like help out this family.
00:35:57
Sammi
Right. And like get him a new house and stuff.
00:35:58
Steve
yeah yeah
00:36:00
Sammi
So there were things that he did. And it wasn't like he was kind of doing televangelist types of techniques, but it was for this community good.
00:36:12
Sammi
and there were moments where he was like, I want to do this for the people or like, you know, said, seemed to turn a corner and try to reform his ways and tell Marsha like I love you and I want to marry you and then it's like the next day he gets married to a 17 year old and you're like oh he tricked me that son of a bitch um I should also mention right now I'm currently listening to the book In the Garden of Beasts for no and are you are you familiar
00:36:31
Steve
who
00:36:34
Steve
Yeah.
00:36:42
Steve
Ooh. I am familiar.
00:36:45
Sammi
Yes, Eric Larson in the Garden of Beasts. I'll put it in the show notes for no reason whatsoever. I brought that up. There's no weird things that have to do with anything else. Why I brought that up.
00:36:57
Sammi
But that's been really interesting to listen to that and watch this movie at the same time. And I knew what we'd be talking about. I'm like, because it's just it's these people who are in We'll just, you know, they're in Berlin at a very interesting time to be in Berlin.
00:37:15
Sammi
This was like 1933, 1934, I think it's covers a year.
00:37:15
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:20
Sammi
um And you see certain people start to become a little bit more powerful. Yeah. and And, it's interesting to hear them talk about, like you're saying, like the charisma of certain people, the energy that certain people give off, you know, how much they want to be around them or not around them, just like they're anybody else. It's just a really odd.
00:37:44
Sammi
It's a, it's a really interesting account. I can't believe how many records they kept. that, you know, he was able to share, but it's pretty fascinating.
00:37:52
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:37:52
Sammi
I mean, he was an ambassador, so that it's it covers like the family of this ambassador and um in Berlin, an American ambassador. But anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there as something that might be something you be interesting.
00:38:08
Sammi
But yeah, I mean, one thing I don't really... i haven't really watched any of Andy Griffith's monologues that he did like before this movie, which obviously would be, I'm assuming, the reason that he got cast.
00:38:16
Steve
the
00:38:24
Sammi
Because that's basically what his role is, right?
00:38:24
Steve
Yeah.
00:38:27
Sammi
He did a bunch of monologues.
00:38:28
Steve
Yeah.
00:38:29
Sammi
But he is, like in real life and in most of the things that he... did very likable like we're saying you know so yeah it's like it just he just like adjusted the knob just enough to yeah make him this really unlikable person it it is it's like an it's always sunny type of feel where you're like god i just can't stop watching this asshole yeah
00:38:52
Steve
yeah
00:38:54
Steve
yeah Yes, um that's that's exactly it.
00:38:59
Sammi
It's just so good. Yeah. And I mean, there's a couple other things. Let me see. um There's a couple other moments that I wanted to talk about. Yeah.
00:39:11
Sammi
yeah So this was another thing that was really interesting. um They talked about politics then, you know, so it's like, You see you see like the seeds of like these little things that they're doing.
00:39:22
Sammi
And then it's like, OK, now it's going to sponsorships. OK, now the show is getting bigger. Now it's got like this national audience. Right. And now we're influencing the way politician, you know, like who we're going to promote for politicians.
00:39:29
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:35
Sammi
um And there was a quote in the movie where he said, like, politics is people. And I was like, damn, right. Damn right. It is. um And yeah, I feel like you can see the culmination of, I mean, 30 years later, ah you know, an actor becoming president is not too shocking when you see it it feels like a very prophetic movie. And now, you know, it's like the culture of narcissism kind of does the same thing. The book covers like this idea of
00:40:09
Sammi
Well, I mean, all kinds of different stuff. But um one of the things that gets talked about in the culture of narcissism is this idea of like the navel gazey, you know, self-reflection and a desire to be known, a fear of history and embracing of the future.
00:40:19
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:29
Sammi
All of these things that we seem to... ah like in social media and on TV um that just become attractive to people. And it's not necessarily about the individual, but it's about like the culture that supports it.
00:40:43
Sammi
It's a little about the individuals too. But um yeah, I think there's so much that that you can see in this movie with... that rise in that amplification where even, i mean, i don't know.
00:40:58
Sammi
I'm trying to think of a year where we thought that wasn't possible. I guess 2016. We were like, well, not going to
00:41:03
Steve
yeah
00:41:06
Sammi
That would be totally nuts. um We just have to worry about the living ham sandwich Scott Walker. And that's ah that would be the worst thing, um which is just so funny to think a man with absolutely no risk whatsoever.
00:41:18
Steve
ah
00:41:22
Sammi
um Negative risk if that's possible. but
00:41:26
Steve
Oh, no Riz at all.
00:41:26
Sammi
Yeah.
00:41:27
Steve
No Riz at all.
00:41:28
Sammi
Yeah. And I mean, gosh, I what are some of your i mean, what are some of your favorite moments in this movie?
00:41:29
Steve
Ugh.
00:41:36
Sammi
Anything you want to point out that we haven't covered?
00:41:39
Steve
I kind of love, so we mentioned that he's sort of like climbing the the media rungs, right?
00:41:39
Sammi
I'm like going through.
00:41:46
Steve
And the scene for me that really solidifies who this character is and what he's capable of is he is offered $500 a week to do TV in Nashville.
00:42:04
Steve
And he does this folksy sort of backwards negotiation where he's like, well, golly gee, I might not like it in the big city. I don't want to run off on you or anything like that. So why don't you just let me do the show for free? And if it's successful, then give me a thousand dollars a week. And they're like, yeah, sure.
00:42:26
Steve
And then he goes around and the the very first like live broadcast that he does, he stops what he's doing. and And instead of just like addressing the audience and letting the camera sort of like meet his gaze or anything, he walks directly up to the camera, puts his hat on the camera, and literally looks into the iris of the lens and speaks directly to the people that he wants to manipulate.
00:42:53
Steve
And it is like the most powerful thing. ah And again, we go back to like just talking about how I was joking with. beginning of this the show was just like oh yeah he was the he was the first influencer but no really like how many people are just out there you know hawking tummy tea and boner pills looking directly into their phone and saying like yeah buy this supplement on the tiktok shop and your hair will stop falling out and all of that stuff.
00:43:25
Steve
and And so many people have built personas and gained either you know wealth or political plow power or influence by looking directly into a camera and being like, hey, it's me, a normal, real guy.
00:43:38
Steve
you know ah so that just like, man, that really resonated with me. I was like, okay, this this is the difference between like a good movie and a great movie. And we've officially hit great movie territory.
00:43:49
Sammi
Yeah, the whole movie felt that way to me for sure. Like it took a while to kind of take off, but I agree with you. when When you see him in the studio for the first time, and like one moment that I really like about that part is where when he said like something like, well, what is it that I'm supposed to be looking at? Which of these holes am I supposed to be looking at?
00:44:06
Sammi
And you see him like upscale in real time, right?
00:44:06
Steve
Yeah.
00:44:09
Sammi
Like, That very much feels like when people will do those like YouTubers first videos ah versus their most recent video or their first TikTok versus their most recent TikTok.
00:44:20
Sammi
Like I've seen a lot of fatigue with people lately with the overly polished, um no longer relatable influencers that They all made popular.
00:44:35
Sammi
Like the reason they're unrelatable is because you gave them attention.
00:44:35
Steve
yeah
00:44:40
Sammi
And that's like hard for people to grasp. Like, I don't know how much you're into like the beauty, the beauty TikTok community.
00:44:49
Steve
Would it shock you to learn? Not very.
00:44:53
Sammi
But, you know, so beauty influencers, especially um on YouTube and TikTok, um have really, I mean, they have massive real estate on those platforms.
00:44:55
Steve
Yeah.
00:45:02
Sammi
Like beauty influencers on YouTube are like just, I mean, and feel like they were kind of one of the first waves of influencers who really like, made it big and understood how to do brand partnerships and how to grow an audience.
00:45:17
Steve
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:45:18
Sammi
And of course they were some of the first people to have like large scale scandals. um But there's one woman and you might know who I'm talking about, Michaela on Tik TOK.
Influencer Culture and Public Perception
00:45:30
Sammi
And she's got like this, like really thick Boston accent and stuff. And people like, mean, I would say even like three or four years ago, like as she was still kind of coming up, maybe she had like a couple million followers. I think right now she just passed like 17 million or 18 million or something like that.
00:45:46
Sammi
um But people around that time I saw started talking about like i started noticing people talk about her because um it it was like around the same time that there were like, yeah,
00:46:01
Sammi
the fires in Maui and stuff. And so she had talked about like not going on like a brand trip to Hawaii and everybody was like really happy that she chose not to.
00:46:03
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:46:11
Sammi
And she was like, I just don't think it's a good look at the right time. And, and so a lot of people were saying things like, And I think she had made some other like choices that people had liked. So they were like, oh, she's so relatable. She's so good. Like, you know, she's one of us. Like, you know, she's one of the good ones. Right. Like we we we've made the right person famous.
00:46:30
Sammi
I saw a lot of people say things like that, like we made the right person famous. And she's been in a number of like scandals since then, which I mean, whatever, like just weird stuff. Like, did she Photoshop this? And is that really work?
00:46:44
Sammi
That product worked that well? Like, whatever. I don't know. I can't comment on those things. Like, that's her own business. um And she did a thing. This was maybe like two or three years ago where she was like complaining about her day. And she was like,
00:46:57
Sammi
she got She basically described working nine to five and she was like, try being an influencer for a day. And people got like so mad at her about that.
00:47:03
Steve
Oh, yeah.
00:47:06
Sammi
um But just recently, and I mean, that stuff is a job, you know, and people do get, especially on YouTube, you see a lot of burnout from people who just are like constantly pumping out content and trying to tend to the algorithm.
00:47:22
Sammi
But it is still such a privilege to do a job like that full time.
00:47:25
Steve
oh yeah
00:47:26
Sammi
So to complain about it, it's like, it's kind of, it's like, you got to touch grass. Like, what are you talking about? And this was maybe like a week ago.
00:47:33
Steve
Oh,
00:47:36
Sammi
She just did this big luxury haul on TikTok. And it was like $200,000 worth of luxury stuff.
00:47:45
Steve
oh God.
00:47:45
Sammi
And a lot of it was like kind of, in my opinion, kind of looked like shit.
00:47:51
Steve
I love that when rich people spend a lot of money on stuff that looks like garbage.
00:47:53
Sammi
You know,
00:47:56
Sammi
You're like, I'm like, okay, I don't know. It's like, I can't,
00:48:03
Sammi
I can't even think, I mean, there's a couple designer things maybe I would be interested in because the craftsmanship is good and it would last a long time, but it's like, I think... I mean, people who know me in real life know these kinds of things about me.
00:48:17
Sammi
i mean, I just got my dream car and it cost $10,000. ten thousand dollars Okay.
00:48:21
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:48:22
Sammi
Like that's, and that was my dream car, $10,000 car. Okay. My dreams are very small and manageable. I don't know what I would do with a $200,000 luxury haul, but you know, it's just a bunch of like,
00:48:36
Sammi
you know, overly branded Gucci stuff and animal print everything and whatever. And people were really upset about it because they're like this person that I thought was really relatable and I really loved. And I mean, i you know, in the beginning she had a very like bubbly, genuine personality. She also like looked like a normal person.
00:48:57
Steve
I am.
00:48:57
Sammi
So I think people are just like, you look like me, you know, like, and that's cool. And then she started like, overly like photoshopping her face and her body and people didn't like that and you know And just and yeah starting to complain about things that they couldn't relate to.
00:49:14
Sammi
um In another vein, there was, um oh, what was his name? Hub's Life, right? Are you familiar with Hub's Life? Yeah.
00:49:20
Steve
i am
00:49:21
Sammi
Yeah. So that, I figured you'd know at least. But yeah, Hub's Life, you know he built his whole platform on having a nine to five job. And then he got so popular that he quit his nine to five job, but then still pretended to go to work for a while.
00:49:39
Sammi
And people were like, what the fuck? And then he finally like admitted that he didn't have to go to work. And he still tried to get people interested in his daily routine. And people dropped off.
00:49:49
Sammi
They didn't like it anymore. And now he's like begging on TikTok Live for galaxies. It's like kind of embarrassing. Talk about a rise and fall. So, you know, it's like, yeah, once... You know, that's why I kind of mentioned the milkshake duck, you know, it's like, and and these are people we have a much wider window into their lives.
00:50:04
Steve
yeah
00:50:08
Sammi
It's like, you know, people have watched them for followed their stories for years, they have this parasocial relationship with them, they feel like they know them because of the frame of you know you know identity presentation that they've shown them and and they feel really close to them and then when they see something that you know kind of goes against that idea then they feel betrayed they're like oh my god but i thought you were like this but you're like this like that doesn't square with me and they're also not and they're being manipulated right the same way that lonesome roads is manipulating the audience like
00:50:23
Steve
Yeah.
00:50:45
Sammi
all consumers of social media content are being manipulated, whether they're aware of it or not.
00:50:50
Steve
yeah
00:50:53
Sammi
It'll still influence you. That's why they're called influencers.
00:50:56
Steve
Exactly.
00:50:57
Sammi
And, you know, it's like they're being manipulated, but also they have, you know, it's important to recognize your role in making these people famous and giving them attention Like I often think about that scene in the Simpsons, you know, the just don't look just all the time.
00:51:18
Steve
Yeah.
00:51:19
Sammi
Like, you know, there's a treehouse of horror episode where like all these like signs in town, like the, you know, the lard lad donuts and all that, they come to life and they're like attacking the town. But the thing that you can do to get rid of them is just rid them of attention.
00:51:37
Sammi
um Actually, Keith from the Try Guys just posted that video. And I'm like, I think about this video all the time um because Ned from the Try Guys, can well, not from the Try Guys anymore, came back and was like, I'm going to do a podcast with my ex-wife and and do a series on rock bottom and
00:51:48
Steve
ha
00:51:53
Steve
Oh, yeah. That was weird.
00:51:58
Sammi
Can I tell you, it was very vindicating to me because he acted a lot like someone I know acts. And I was like, wow, it I I don't need to do a podcast like that now because I just watched it happen in real life. And that's exactly how it would go.
00:52:14
Sammi
And so it was very, very ah satisfying to me. He looked really bad. She looked amazing. So good for her.
00:52:20
Steve
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's funny for him, too, because you know that, like, if he's going to launch a podcast, how do you get anyone interested? It's like that basically has to be your first episode.
00:52:32
Sammi
Yeah.
00:52:32
Steve
Otherwise, no one's going to give a shit. um But of course, there's no way for him to do that and not look horrible. Like, what do you what do you do at that point?
00:52:41
Sammi
It was so bad, you know, but it's like, yeah, it's like we create, we, we provide the power to these mechanisms, just like the signs and the Simpsons, just like Keith knows, just like I know.
00:52:54
Sammi
um And just like people are saying about Michaela, the same idea with Lonesome Roads.
00:52:55
Steve
Yeah.
00:52:58
Sammi
It's like these eyeballs, the people giving this stuff attention are the people that give it the power. And if you just don't look, It takes the power away, but you have to do it on a mass scale for it to work appropriately.
00:53:13
Steve
Exactly.
00:53:13
Sammi
And the only way the spell was broken in a face in the crowd was a hot mic moment. That's the only reason he fell from grace.
00:53:22
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, like the next secretary of transportation is going to be like Hawk to a girl or something. That's, that's the world that we live in.
00:53:28
Sammi
Yeah, it's it's just so weird, right?
00:53:30
Steve
Yeah.
00:53:32
Sammi
It's like, I do think about, because like I just watched right before we recorded, i was having technical difficulties, like i said and I was crabby, and I was like, let's just watch ah last week tonight, the latest episode, because I just don't want to deal.
00:53:46
Sammi
So we watched the episode on, it's about presidential libraries, and they were you know they were talking about how, this is actually great too, because presidents have become influencers,
00:53:57
Sammi
um Even the ones who weren't trying to be right but um they they talk about like the archival section of the of the libraries and then like the front facing section that people go to and how there are so many records it's going to take up to 100 years.
00:54:09
Steve
Mm-hmm.
00:54:15
Sammi
for them to be like fully categorized and done and ready for the public. So before that, and maybe even after that, it gives you this limited, biased view of the presidents in their own libraries that doesn't give you like the full history.
00:54:33
Sammi
And they talked about how, you know, like in the Clinton library, so the biggest scandal, you know, that rocked his presidency wasn't covered in the library.
00:54:46
Sammi
And that gives you a really incomplete view. But it also made me think about like, wow, you know, there were so many ah things that were disgraceful and career ending in the past.
00:54:48
Steve
yep
00:55:00
Sammi
Boy, do I miss that. Yeah. Those were really nice days, weren't they? Like, all it took was for Lone to Roams to say, like, these guys aren't very smart, you know, to to have people be like, well, I don't want to give you any money, you know. And then all of his narcissistic injury, you know, happens and he just starts, like, lashing out. And then you're like, oh, there's the sexism. There's the racism. Okay. Yeah.
00:55:25
Sammi
There's all the stuff you wanted to say, but, you know, but didn't. But I knew was there. Like it all came out when he's like alone in his, you know, big lonely house, like screaming that he's going to jump out a window if, you know, he doesn't get his way.
00:55:36
Steve
Yep.
00:55:40
Sammi
And Marsha's just like, just jump, just jump, which was like the best part of the fucking movie. I was like, yeah, I was like, if she doesn't tell him to jump, I'm going to be so mad.
00:55:48
Steve
ye
00:55:51
Sammi
You have to call his bluff.
00:55:52
Steve
It's so good.
00:55:52
Sammi
This guy is so full of shit.
00:55:53
Steve
Well, and it's such a great callback to earlier in the movie when he's just like ushering like random girls out of, out of his giant like penthouse apartment.
00:55:54
Sammi
Yeah.
00:55:56
Sammi
Yeah.
00:56:02
Steve
he's just like, Oh, come over, Marsha. I'm so in this big old house, just a country boy like me, 25 rooms. And I feel like i'm trapped and bla blah, blah, blah.
00:56:13
Steve
Then yeah. He's like, if you don't come over, i have a job. It's like, Oh, a manipulative narcissist piece of shit. Where have we seen this before? Everywhere.
00:56:20
Sammi
Yeah. She goes to rescue him.
00:56:21
Steve
And then,
00:56:22
Sammi
Yeah.
00:56:22
Steve
She goes to rescue him. And how do you how do you break free from that? That's what you do when they say I'm going to jump.
00:56:28
Sammi
Just jump.
00:56:29
Steve
Fuck you. Jump.
00:56:32
Sammi
It was so good. And then you just have him, you did like the shot at the end, and he's just like wailing out the window.
00:56:39
Steve
Mm hmm.
00:56:39
Sammi
my God, it was so good. i was like, that's how it needed to end. And that's, you know, that's part of that like Citizen Kane feeling, you know, of just like, ah oh, and you're left with nothing. You have nothing. You are nothing. Yeah.
00:56:55
Sammi
It was just like so satisfying. Oh, yeah. I actually that when you I'm glad you mentioned I could shoot someone in the street because one of my notes was he said something like I could murder him like about like his audience or something like that.
00:57:08
Steve
Yep.
00:57:10
Sammi
And I was like, oh, that gives very much I could shoot someone in the street. Um, yeah.
00:57:16
Steve
Exactly.
00:57:16
Sammi
And he said, this whole country is just my own flock of sheep. Right. It's like, he doesn't hide it at all.
00:57:22
Steve
Exactly.
00:57:24
Sammi
Yeah. And then, yeah, as soon as he can't finesse someone, right. Like that's when he turns on him. It's like, if he, if he thinks he can finesse them, he'll be nice. But then as soon as he realizes he can't, it's like, that's when he started calling Marsha, like a female instead of a woman. I'm like, Oh, that started that long ago.
00:57:43
Sammi
He was like, this female? And I was like, okay, incel.
00:57:46
Steve
you
00:57:47
Sammi
was like, I understand what you're doing. um And yeah, he sees everybody turn against him. At the end, he goes, all of a sudden, I'm poison. It's like, yeah, you were kind of poison all along. You just like covered it up with like all this other stuff.
00:58:03
Sammi
So people didn't know. And it tasted sweet. And they you know they didn't know they were slowly being poisoned by you. But um Yeah, I'm really glad that this was like, I would like to do a little bit more like this. I think it was a good first movie. And I definitely have some recommendations for people if they want to watch this and they want to read more and think more.
00:58:24
Sammi
um Like I mentioned, being there is a nice palate cleanser. If you haven't watched that, that's what would happen if someone had a bunch of money and was cool and nice and good and and like TV in a good way.
00:58:41
Sammi
That's like one of my favorite like hope core movies. I don't know.
00:58:47
Sammi
um Welcome to me would be another recommendation kind of middle of the road there. Did you watch welcome to me?
00:58:52
Steve
I have not seen Welcome to Me.
00:58:54
Sammi
You've watched being there though, right? I'm just assuming.
00:58:56
Steve
I have watched Being There.
00:58:56
Sammi
Yeah.
00:58:57
Steve
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:57
Sammi
My mom's going be happy. I brought it up because that's one of her favorite movies.
00:58:59
Steve
Shout out Hal Ashby. Yeah.
00:59:01
Sammi
Yeah. um ah Welcome to me. I would also recommend ah it's ah what would happen if you ah if someone with borderline personality disorder had a bunch of money. Kind of interesting. ah It's a really Kristen Wiggs in it and it's it's weird, but it's like really good.
00:59:21
Sammi
um I yeah. And if you haven't watched Citizen Kane yet, what the hell? Just go do it. The film bros were right about that one. OK, I'll give them that one. They can have that. And then Network. I would love, I think we should do an episode on Network because that's just one of my all-time faves and I think it pairs well with this movie.
00:59:42
Sammi
um For books, I would recommend The Culture of Narcissism
00:59:47
Steve
Oh, yeah.
00:59:47
Sammi
and um
00:59:48
Steve
that's That's a number one.
00:59:49
Sammi
yeah Please read The Culture of Narcissus. I don't love all the stuff he talks about, especially with feminism, but I really like the book. It's a very important book I think everyone should read. um And yeah, in In the Garden of Beasts. And then for some reason I put this on the list.
01:00:05
Sammi
um I don't remember why, so maybe I won't mention it. and It'll be a mystery book. If I think of why I put it on there. I can't remember. i put on a book called Food for Not. It's all about, um it's really an interesting book.
01:00:20
Sammi
It's all about like ah food. Oh, I know why. Pseudoscience. That's why I put it on. um Because he's hawking these ah fake vitamins and stuff like that. um If you're interested to hear kind of like, how did we get here?
01:00:34
Sammi
um How did our food get the way it is? And why does nobody care? And what's going on with regulations? ah Food for Not talks about it from the perspective of what was happening in the 70s and what happened with like some pesticide regulation and um all that stuff and the scientification of food and newfangled bah bla blah, blah, blah.
01:00:50
Steve
Mm-hmm.
01:00:57
Sammi
um Which I think ultimately had a major backlash and resulted in a bunch of distrust. And now ah influencers today um are jumping on that. And that's why I yell about beef tallow all the time.
01:01:10
Steve
that
01:01:11
Sammi
So that's why I put it on there. It's a great foundational book for people who are like, how did we get here? And how did we get people to listen to influencers over scientists? um It's a great explainer for that. So I will put that all in the show notes. twitter Do you have some recommendations for the people?
01:01:30
Steve
no i really I really like the culture of narcissism I think like that's that's the a number one text that you should you should dive into
01:01:37
Sammi
It's good. It's an easier read than you. It's kind of meaty, but like just just kind of like let it wash over you and like revisit it.
01:01:45
Steve
also this is the only podcast you're going to listen to where we're like yeah it's about a movie and it's a real doubter and it's all about how the world's falling apart right now and also here's some books you should read
01:01:56
Sammi
Yeah, well, we know our audience.
01:01:57
Steve
yeah yeah
01:01:57
Sammi
OK, nerds, here's here's your assignment. Here are your homework assignments. Any other movies you want to recommend? What else are we going to cover? What do you want to cover?
01:02:07
Steve
well i i would like to recommend but also i'd like to cover i want to do network maybe maybe that could be the next one that we do so i feel like it's a really good companion piece to this yeah it is it is that's what i'm saying like
01:02:14
Sammi
Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:17
Sammi
That's what I just said.
01:02:20
Sammi
I just said. Oh, look at that. Leave it to a man to act it like it was his idea.
01:02:25
Steve
it's not It's not my idea.
01:02:25
Sammi
For the record, I recommend a network.
01:02:27
Steve
It's your idea. Yeah, yeah.
01:02:28
Sammi
Yeah.
01:02:28
Steve
You recommend a network. No, network is like one of my all-time favorites.
01:02:31
Sammi
It's such a good movie and I haven't watched it in so long.
01:02:32
Steve
Like you said, it's a great companion piece.
01:02:34
Sammi
So I think, I think it, yeah, I think it weighs really well. and It's also like, what would yeah. Some of it has to do with if you had this influence and platform and maybe you still had a conscience, what would you do?
01:02:44
Steve
Mm-hmm.
01:02:45
Sammi
Right? Like, how would you use it? I think it's a great, um, a great thinker for that.
01:02:47
Steve
Yeah.
01:02:50
Sammi
So yeah, but we'll cover that next and we'll see when we get, we'll get back to some of the sillies. Um, but I will, oh,
01:02:56
Steve
Oh, another good one that's a real bummer, and it's it's about like media and sensationization of ah ofes sensationalizing things. Have you ever seen Ace in the Hole?
01:03:06
Sammi
No. so
01:03:07
Steve
Ace in the Hole. You should look that one up.
01:03:08
Sammi
Okay.
01:03:10
Steve
ah
01:03:10
Sammi
Ace in the hole, friends.
01:03:11
Steve
Network has got to be next, but Ace in the Hole is a good one, too.
01:03:14
Sammi
Okay. Ace in the hole will be our ace in the hole.
01:03:17
Steve
That's right.
01:03:17
Sammi
Oh, 1951.
01:03:17
Steve
we're we're Yeah, we're just I'm throwing out all the dusty-ass movies for you guys.
01:03:17
Sammi
Nice. and nice
01:03:23
Sammi
Maybe we'll throw in some, ah yeah, like Twilight Zone episodes or something like that, too, because I think there's plenty of good stuff in there.
01:03:27
Steve
Hell yeah.
01:03:31
Sammi
i just like um after Robert redford after robertber Redford died, I watched his episode and I was like, man, this is interesting because he plays death. So it's like...
01:03:43
Sammi
Kind of weird to watch this at the same time. um But we were just talking like today. um ah Tuck and I were talking about Andy Griffith and I was like talking about how mad I was, you know, not getting to see um him do more complex roles like this.
01:04:00
Sammi
And we got on the topic of like... you know he's like oh isn't it fun to watch actors in early roles though like before they blow up like how fun that is and he goes like the twilight zone was such a great show for that you know because you have like robert redford william shatner and like you know all these like really big stars who had like little roles in the show it's one of our favorite shows to watch and i was like what's the equivalent now like law and order i think i feel like it's like law and order um
01:04:14
Steve
Yeah,
01:04:28
Steve
yeah pretty much.
01:04:32
Sammi
So yeah, we'll we'll kind of I don't know, mix it old and new. We'll we'll see when we get back to it. And um we'll have a couple crossover episodes here, but I might start to throw this content over on a new podcast, The Horrors Persist. And I'll put um the notes for that in the show notes so you don't...
01:04:48
Sammi
lose us um it is gonna the website is the horrors.co if you go there now it doesn't look like much um but there is a blog about political violence over there um so there is amusing available there there will be episodes hopefully soon and you'll hear about it here first and then um it's just the horrors.co like dot co like do o t co everywhere um i've just parked everything like a good marketer does
01:04:49
Steve
There we go. Mm-hmm.
01:05:13
Steve
um
01:05:17
Steve
Look at you.
01:05:20
Sammi
but we'll, so we'll start to maybe have a couple of things over there and it'll grow. So, um, well, you know, we'll mostly stick to the reality and the silly, but we, we are capable of complex thought.
01:05:30
Steve
Yeah.
01:05:30
Sammi
Steve more than me today, but you know, we are capable of it.
01:05:32
Steve
Well...
01:05:35
Steve
that's That's my Lonesome Roads trait. is I might seem like a colossal dumbass, but underneath this dumbass surface, there's a brain. It's two little hamsters on two little wheels. Just kind of chugging along.
01:05:48
Sammi
See, and my brain is just, ah ah it's like, you know, Charlie in It's Always Sunny where he's got all of the things with the string.
01:05:57
Steve
Oh, yeah. All the lines attached to the things.
01:05:58
Sammi
Yeah.
01:05:59
Steve
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:59
Sammi
And I'm like, Pepe Sylvia, Pepe Sylvia. Like, that's me. That is my brain where I'm just like, this reminds me of this.
01:06:05
Steve
Oh.
01:06:06
Sammi
It reminds me of this. And when I watch this, and that's why, you know, I'll do like eight parts. movie reviews on TikTok where I'm like, here's 10 other things you need to watch if you like this.
01:06:15
Steve
Mm-hmm.
01:06:15
Sammi
And you should also play The Sims, you know?
01:06:16
Steve
Mm-hmm.
01:06:17
Sammi
And that was about Don't Worry Darling. So...
01:06:20
Steve
Everybody should play The Sims. That's the major takeaway here.
01:06:22
Sammi
Everybody should play The Sims, um but, like, fuck that EA deal. ah
01:06:28
Steve
Yeah, that shit's weird.
01:06:29
Sammi
Yeah, that shit's weird. I can't wait to see what Simmers do with it. um But, yeah, we'll see you around soon, probably next week, for our review of Network, and then we'll kind of see where we go from there.
01:06:41
Sammi
And we will have a Jillybox for you, and we will have more Mormon Wives for you soon-ish, I think.
Conclusion and Critical Content Consumption
01:06:46
Sammi
um But until then, take care of yourselves and watch... Your content with discernment.
01:06:55
Steve
And don't do needle drugs.
01:06:57
Sammi
I have no idea if the music's playing.
01:06:59
Steve
It is. It's playing.
01:07:02
Steve
yeah See, it doesn't matter if we're discussing ah serious classic film or a reality dating show. The fact remains you shouldn't do needle drugs. And that's my influence. That's my face in the crowd moment.
01:07:16
Steve
I can only assume there'd be more needle drug deaths without us.