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To Hell She Must Go - Martha and Mariah Haney
142 Plays1 year ago
Happy Summer Crime Family! I apologize for posting late -but this episode was recorded in May and done so in honor of Mental Health Awareness Month.
In this episode, Faith is telling us the story of a time where mental health was not viewed and or treated as it is today - and it ends in tragedy for Mariah Haney.
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:04
Speaker
Well, hello and thanks for tuning into another episode of Twisted Tales of Faith. And Lisa. And we're happy you're here. Bad news. Lisa did not do anything remotely amusing coming off Anastasia. Sorry, guys.
00:00:20
Speaker
but she has milk in this surgery for all it's worth. So, oh yeah, for sure. Everyone's doing everything for her. Oh, that's absolutely not true. That is absolutely a hundred. You would, they know that I'm not the liar out of the two of us. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely me. It's always me, isn't it? Yes. Cause I'm a great person and I'm a giver.
Social Media Mishaps
00:00:39
Speaker
So I sent you something, uh,
00:00:41
Speaker
updating on my McFadden case. I posted that to Facebook. I could not post it to, what's it called? Instagram. That one, because it's a video, not a picture. Oh, okay. Oh well, either way. When they pop up and stuff, I'll just keep feeding them off so that we can kind of stay tuned. Because as one poor viewer learned, Lisa does not know how to work a Facebook thread or comment or anything else. No, Lisa goes on
00:01:10
Speaker
Facebook for funny videos and what's the tiki talk for? I do that too. I need to do that. Yeah, I'm not the whole I don't I can't I'm not great at the whole posting thing. No, I don't really like other people either. I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just not a social. I just go on there to stalk people. I don't even do that. I used to do that. I haven't done it in a while. I should do it. I tried to stalk someone that I haven't stalked in a while. I just wanted to look up and see, you know,
00:01:35
Speaker
What was going on and they deleted their Facebook? How am I supposed to find out what they're doing with their lives and if I approve or not?
Podcast Plans and Road Trip Reflections
00:01:42
Speaker
I don't know Stockings hard business guys. I don't know how people do that with real intent That will be a discussion for a later date. I think it will be I've got several stalker stories lined up and you've got a stalker interview eventually Not to get a hold of her and see when she can be become available. Tell us our story letter interview. I
00:02:02
Speaker
Yeah. We should do that soon. Maybe this summer we can do like a special on it or something. Good. We could. We could. Because we're not doing the summer road trip this year. Not going to happen. Not happening guys. Our summer road trip that turned into the fall road trip. Our year long road trip. Close into winter. Oh yeah. Rough stuff.
00:02:21
Speaker
All right. We're back from yelling at children by we're, I mean me, you'll probably hear them continue to scream in the background because they're heathens and they don't listen to a word we say. But that's the, you know, happens.
Michigan Murder Story - Part 1
00:02:33
Speaker
All right. Well, I have a story for you. I am intrigued already. Well, I was telling Lisa before, cause I had two ways. I was at two, two different avenues that I was looking at with, with today's tail, if you will.
00:02:50
Speaker
You said it way better than you said the first time. Thank you. I did. I tried not to laugh the first time you told me. Yeah. Well, you know, I remember what I said the first words coming out of my mouth. You had two ways to take it. You did laugh. I did. Because you're a toddler.
00:03:04
Speaker
So May is the National Mental Health Awareness Month so I could go with mental health type story. Our Memorial Day and I could go with a vet story and I had both that I liked but I thought I'll do the mental health for May now because we're dropping that this week and then next week is Memorial Day and I could do
00:03:29
Speaker
The military show, but Lisa wants to invite all her family and I barely tolerate her. I like her husband, her husband, her brother kinda. Besides that, eh. Yeah, we might be in the South, but not that kind of South. So he is definitely my brother. Not according to the text you sent me about Anna.
00:03:47
Speaker
Did I misread? Yeah, you misread it. That's right. That's why you like family time. You drink through it. I've got to be painfully sober and aware of what's happening. I drink through a lot of things. I'm glad your family doesn't listen to this. This podcast. That's true. Mostly because I have to spend an hour with you. I'm a delight. And it's longer than an hour. It's because you never stop talking. That's true. I love you though. But anyway. You have my heart. So we are going in the way way way back machine.
00:04:14
Speaker
how I've missed it and I'm gonna tell you a story from Michigan and it is a grizzly, grizzly story in a small, quaint, quiet little town of Williamson. So we're gonna begin on April 23rd, 1897. Dang. Way back. Yeah. Why did four way way way back machine?
00:04:42
Speaker
And I apologize I can do nothing about the children besides murder them and then I'd end up in jail Lisa do the podcast by herself I wouldn't be able to figure out how to upload it five. Yeah, exactly five minutes of her swear I would sit on the back deck with no microphone no computer and tell myself stories or Brian or it's a sad life he's Drink more Brian you'll you'll be happier
00:05:08
Speaker
anyways um he did he did you identified yourself as patrick the first time i did talked on phone so yeah he knows i don't know some random guy name so anyway back to 1897 sheriff jj whose name is john jacob rail he goes by jj because you know everybody was like john jacob dingle heimersmith
00:05:33
Speaker
They just went by JJ. And I sang that song to my head all the time. John Jacob, Jacob. I'm fully aware. I just, I'm wondering if people even sang that back then. I don't know. I'm assuming they, I sang it every time I saw JJ and then I'd go John. Anyway, Sheriff JJ. You know why you do that? Because I'm a lonely person and I like talking to myself. No. Why? Because you're as ADD as I am, my dear. True. So anyway.
00:05:59
Speaker
back on task. So April 23rd, 1897 was a day. And Sheriff JJ received a telegram from deputy JW Lauren Hynger. That is not how you pronounce his name. We all know I can't read. Let's move on. The deputy stating that there had been a killing in a town and he needed to come immediately.
00:06:29
Speaker
So the sheriff immediately left to go to the crime scene. And by immediately, I meant it's the eighteen frickin hundred. So he got on a train and slowly meandered to the next town over. Yeah. So when he finally arrives in this city to meet with the deputy, the deputy fills them in like a little bit about what he's about to walk into.
00:06:51
Speaker
But the sheriff pretty much discounts the warning thinking number one, the deputy is exaggerating. Number two, it's really not that bad. And number three, I'm not a new sheriff. Like I've been doing this for a while. I've seen some things. I've lived some lives. I can, it's not, it's just not going to be that bad. I feel like back in the 1800s, people are still kind of brutal. So yeah. So, um, he thinks what's the, what it can't be that bad.
00:07:21
Speaker
Well, the sheriff and the deputy arrive on scene at the house, 320 Elevator Street. And by this time, there's a crowd right in front of the house of people. So the two officers start wading through this crowd to get to the house. And Sheriff JJ immediately notices the stench of burning flesh, which is lingering in the air.
00:07:51
Speaker
Mm hmm. So the house was described as a shack and like it was described as a small house, but it is 100% a shack. Like I've got pictures. It's a very small square building. And while they say they're multiple rooms, like in the rendition, the different things you read about this story, I just don't
Michigan Murder Story - Part 2
00:08:13
Speaker
see how.
00:08:14
Speaker
It is literally like a small square building there's very few windows on the outside there's no trees to block the stench or the view it's it's the houses like made of wood there's no paint the wood is not in great condition.
00:08:32
Speaker
There's no upkeep like it's a shack. So the residents of the house that live here is Alfred Haney, his wife Martha and Alfred's 80 year old mother Mariah. The three of them live here. And honestly, I don't how three people could live in this house comfortably.
00:08:50
Speaker
So the officers approach the house and they take in all these details. Sheriff JJ is kind of looking around, hearing people mutter around and upon arriving at the door, they find it hanging on their, it's hinge. Like it's got one, it's like hanging on by a thread to the door frame, which was weird, but literally could have probably been explained by the rest of the house's appearance.
00:09:13
Speaker
Except for their large gouges and holes cut into the wooden frame of the door and the door itself, as if someone hacked their way to the house. So as they enter the house, it does not get much better. It gets worse. The place is filthy. The officers use the word squalor to describe it, but it's just complete dirt in my mind.
00:09:43
Speaker
Think of an episode of quarters, like it's nasty. There's dirty plates stacked everywhere. There's rotting food. There's more garbage littering the floor and surrounding than actual furniture possessions. It's very obviously that the Haney's, um, had very little means and they were just very poor just by taking this in. So as they continue into the house, maybe kind of lazy. Yeah.
00:10:10
Speaker
There's three of them. You tell me can't clean a three bedroom house. I mean, I've got like, well, I mean the 80 year old woman's kind of probably, they made them tough back in the day. So as they continue on to the house past the broken down door and the, the, the appearance, um, they noticed that there's blood pulled on the ground and there's gray hair clumps sticking out of this blood.
00:10:37
Speaker
along with deep gouges into the floor of the house. It's also covered in blood. The little furniture that they had, which was a couch, is soaked in blood and turned over. Obvious lines of a struggle as there's just, it looks like someone just tore through a path of this house. Like there's a picture frame that shattered the bloods all over the floor. The picture's nowhere to be found. There's blood on the walls, like it's a massacre.
00:11:09
Speaker
So the officers are just taking in all this and there's literally like, it's just carnage. So as they're walking, they notice that there is a huge blood trail leading from the front of the home where the officers are currently just taking it all in to what looks like the back of this house. So there's been a struggle and someone has been dragged through the house.
00:11:38
Speaker
The blood was soaked through the carpet. It splattered on the walls. It's literally the worst crime scene any of these officers had ever seen. And like they said that it was the worst. So as the group of men enter the kitchen, things get worse. Here, they encountered a corpse on the floor. However, the corpse was so bad, it was unidentifiable. The body is,
00:12:07
Speaker
extremely badly burnt. The clothes were melted into the skin of the person. They said the only things that were identifiable as even really human were the hands sticking out. The slippers the person were wearing was melted onto the feet of the body. Like it was bad. That's really gruesome. Yeah. The police could smell kerosene.
00:12:35
Speaker
So obviously the body- This is like an older couple. Yeah, it's a couple in the guys 80 year old mother. Yeah. So they can smell kerosene. It's obviously the body had been doused in kerosene for it to be that burnt, which explains why it was it was so torch. But otter is the fact that the body had been doused in water like they
00:13:00
Speaker
Set them on fire, felt bad, and then exactly put them out. I don't. Yeah. Oh, and so there's water all over the floor, water all over the bot, this burnt body. But the most troubling thing is, is the body that is laying there, it doesn't have a head. The head is gone. So there is water covering the entire floor of the kitchen. Obviously, multiple buckets have been dumped.
00:13:29
Speaker
onto this body and into this floor, the police literally have no idea at this point what's going on. So they look to the left and they see the dining room table, which is literally covered with dirty dishes, rotten food, like just stacked up everywhere. But the most disturbing thing was the fact sitting there on a platter in the middle of the table with a fork and knife next to it was the severed head of an elderly elderly woman.
00:13:57
Speaker
Eyes wide open, mouth wide open, gray hair stained red from the amount of blood, staring at one place setting at the table. So that's the centerpiece. OK, so wait a minute. Are we setting up an MO here? Like, is this guy telling a story? Like, what's happening? This is the murder scene. Like, they don't know what's happening.
00:14:23
Speaker
Well, no, I'm only asking because you said they were staring at one place at it. Yeah. You'll find out why. Okay. So the centerpiece of this table is just picture it. An elderly woman's head covered in blood surrounded by blood with eating utensils and rotten food. That's like something you wouldn't even see in a haunted house. Like how do you.
00:14:51
Speaker
comprehend what's happening. How do you think to do that? Why do you think to do that? So the the face of the old woman is the head of the old woman is covered in scratches and bruises. Part of the head was caved in due to the blows sustained during her murder. And so it's clear that she was beaten before her murder.
00:15:16
Speaker
And at this point, the officers on the scene, even the hardened Sheriff JJ, are gagging, vomiting. Like, number one, the sight. Number two, the smell. You've got burnt flesh, kerosene.
00:15:33
Speaker
You've got rotting food, rotting food filled and just, you know what that smells like. Leaders of blood. Yes, I do. When I, so side note, when I first got the ducks, fella loved the ducks. And this is when they were small and cute and indoors, but they stunk. Those things poop every five seconds. I don't know if I've told you that. Don't get ducks.
00:15:52
Speaker
but it smelled like my whole house smelled I was opening windows I was lighting candles I was freezing like three days yeah and then I cleaned everything out for the ducks put the ducks outside smells still there called lease and I'm like I've got a dead animal under my house 100% have a dead animal under my house yeah
00:16:09
Speaker
And so I had carried in a bunch of cleaning supplies I got from Walmart and I'm like, I gotta, I gotta clean. I gotta do something. And there was a whole chicken that had been sitting there underneath all the cleaning supplies. Frozen chicken. It was no longer frozen. Sat there for a week. That was the smell. It is horrid. Like it is awful. I can't. It smells like dead animal. Oh my gosh. Rotting flesh is not a... So you've got that on top of the blood and everything. The police officers are just gagging. They're sick. Hashtag worst crime scene ever.
00:16:39
Speaker
So they continue through the house to these two tiniest little bedrooms ever known in existence. And both rooms are soaked with water and there's a window broken in, like from the outside. So they literally have more questions than answers at this point. Like it's a bizarre scene that this sheriff is walking through. So once the police are back outside,
00:17:09
Speaker
And I'm sure I'd want to say with the fresh air, I don't think that smell probably ever left their nose. Not for a minute anyway. It's like smelling a skunk. Correct. It just lingers. You know, they smelt this like for the rest of their lives and creep into their memory.
00:17:23
Speaker
So they start searching the property to give any clues to what have happened. Are there tracks? No idea where the other two people are? No. So what they found was a blood trail outside and it led to the back set of steps on the house. So when they looked under there, they find pools of blood and an axe covered in blood and hair and
00:17:48
Speaker
which means they literally just stumbled upon the murder weapon. Doesn't give them any answers, but they know a house. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So the woman whose body was inside the house was identified as Mariah Haney, the 80 year old woman who lived in the house.
00:18:08
Speaker
So let me give you a little backstory on the people that lived in the house. As earlier, as I said earlier, Mariah lived in the house with her son, Alfred, who she called Alfie and her daughter-in-law Martha. Now, I will tell you, I have seen like in researching this, Mariah's age ranges from 80 to 85, but the newspaper articles and stuff set 80. So I'm going to go with that, even though if you read the newspaper articles, they did not do research before they
00:18:38
Speaker
printed things back then, but whatever, we're in the 1800s. 80-85, old, old, that's all that matters. So, anyway, Mariah lived there with her son Alfie and her daughter-in-law Martha, and honestly, you know how you joke about like, my mother-in-law sucks, my daughter-in-law, they fight like cats and dogs, all that? This relationship is what those stories are based off of, like what those jokes are based off of. The two constantly bickered.
00:19:07
Speaker
They angered each other, they pushed each other's buttons daily. Mariah actually attempted to convince her son Alfie not to marry Martha when he first said he was gonna marry her because she disliked her on sight. Mariah said she didn't trust her, she was just an odd duck and the relationship legitimately never got better. Alfie stated these two women continually pushed each other's button and he was constantly playing referee
00:19:37
Speaker
It never got physical, like a shoulder check when they walked by was literally like the most they did, but it was just constant verbal, like on and yammering. So oftentimes when Alfie went to work for the day, neighbors would hear these two women just fighting and screaming at each other. And by neighbors, there was a factory next door with mill workers.
00:20:04
Speaker
And all these mill workers talked about how these women fought constantly. Wow. So I imagine like all these grimy, grizzly, like 1800s men, men, like, ha ha ha. Yeah. And they're literally on their breaks, like eating their lunch pails, just staring like, you know, like you'd watch a soap opera. Like, not now, Bob, I got to finish my story. They're going at it today. I don't see it being super quiet there either.
00:20:28
Speaker
And so for them to be able to be heard over all the machines and the whatevers that's got they've got going on Yeah, but the mill workers legit said that they would just go watch sometimes Wow, like that's what they did for their break go watch these two crazy women yell at each other so with all this information that has come in and Martha being at the scene of the crime She's arrested for the murder of her mother-in-law Mariah So what was Martha doing at the scene of the crime? You may ask yourself well
Martha's Confession and Mental Health
00:20:58
Speaker
She was in the backyard on her hands and knees, digging into the soil and mumbling to herself. When the cops walked up to her in this position and asked, hey, Martha, what you doing?
00:21:13
Speaker
She just said I just killed my mother in law. So, yeah, they arrested her. Wow. They arrested her for murder. We have no idea where Alfie is still. We'll get there. OK. I'm kind of tell I'm telling it out of order, but, you know, we'll get. I thought we were still in backstory and then we jump back and jumping back and forth. Keep up. Keep up. Try my best.
00:21:31
Speaker
So she's arrested and as she's arrested, she's she stays pretty quiet and subdued. Like there's no emotional outbursts. There's nothing crazy like that. She would just kind of mumble every once in a while. Yep, I did it. Cut her head off. But it was all very just like I did it. Yep, cut her head off. I killed her. I did it like she's not talking to anyone. No one's asking a question. She's just muttering these things. OK.
00:21:55
Speaker
So Mariah, I'm sorry, not Mariah, Mariah is the one. Martha is brought directly to the village lockup, which is where criminals were taken before they went to jail. She was described as a very small woman with dark hair and dark eyes. And when I say small, they said that she was like, like, I'm not going to pronounce this word right because I just realized I spelled it wrong. Actually, I spell checked it and I changed the words.
00:22:21
Speaker
emaciated, emaciated, I was gonna say emancipated. So she's emaciated, her face is shrunken, she's just acting weird. So now that Martha's there, the police have to question her, right? Which dibs on not it. So they got the Village Health doctor, Dr. Frank Sumway, and they call him to evaluate her mental state.
00:22:45
Speaker
because she's acting. And we knew so much about mental. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Go ahead. Oh, no, we'll get there. Yeah. No, no. But so they they call him. He's a he's a practicing doctor. What is it? What is it called? The lobotomy when they get out some of your brain? They call. I feel like that's going to happen at some point. That is not a good call. Yeah.
00:23:01
Speaker
So they say, oh, dang, that was not the correct. She didn't. Sorry, guys. I did not think that through. So Dr. Frank, some way is calling to evaluate her because she's acting odd.
00:23:17
Speaker
And literally, if the police just want to ask the people in the village where they live, they would have found out that she's not acting. There's definitely something off with her. Right. Like she would often walk through town like muttering to herself or to no one around her. But she thought there were people around her type of deal. She's just kind of weird, right? OK.
00:23:38
Speaker
So doctor some way arrives and when he's told who the potential killer is, he's there to talk to. He told the officers, you know, I'm honestly not surprised by this.
00:23:50
Speaker
He had seen her around town and stated every time he saw her, he was very concerned with her mental state. But apparently it's not proper etiquette for a doctor to walk up to someone and say, you're crazy. You need to be evaluated. So he just said nothing and went about his business, but he knew that she was a concern mentally. So in a strange sense of serendipity, if you will, Dr. Sumway actually had an appointment on the books that very morning to meet with Martha Haney.
00:24:20
Speaker
and her husband, Alfie, but she didn't show up. So Dr. Sumway and another professional, Dr. Shaw, went to lock up to talk and examine Martha. And she didn't want to talk to them. Quite frankly, she didn't want to talk to anyone. She'd refuse to speak or even look at the police the whole time they tried to question her. She wouldn't discuss anything with the doctor. She'd literally only nod occasionally to some of their questions.
00:24:48
Speaker
The whole time the doctor, the two doctors questioned Martha, she sat huddled on the floor with a blanket wrapped around her and just would occasionally nod like that's it. So when they asked her to tell them what happened at the house that day, the only thing she said was, I killed my mother-in-law. But after that, she just stared blankly at them, like no expression, no one's home, just stared.
00:25:13
Speaker
So they tried to prompt her further asking exactly what happened, give details, but she just stared. And after rephrasing the question several times, trying to get her to give them more details, more anything, they're just met with two blank stares. The two doctors finally decided, you know. We're gonna stop questioners at this point. We kind of know what we need to know here. And as they start to leave, Martha says, wait.
00:25:42
Speaker
They should have kept walking. I'm sure at the end of the day is what they thought as they were probably guzzling scotch, but they waited, turned around. And so Martha said, this is what happened. We argued about a photo that day. I put it in a frame and that frame belonged to Mariah and she was pissed at me and she hit me and we got really angry and we screamed at each other and I killed her. That's her statement. So the doctors asked her just to elaborate a little because obviously
00:26:10
Speaker
Um, something bigger happened than what she's telling them. There's more to the story. That's very simplistic. Something's going on. So she kind of breaks down the day as best she can. She informs them that, um, the frame in question had a picture of John, which was,
00:26:32
Speaker
Mariah's deceased husband. And while Mariah was out doing chores at 80 plus years old working in the yard, Martha decided to take John's photo out of the picture frame and place a photo of her three children into this picture frame.
00:26:51
Speaker
Mariah comes in from doing chores, and when she sees the picture frame doesn't have her husband in it, she wanted to know where her husband's picture was, and Martha refused to answer. So you're not telling her. So Mariah hit Martha on the back of the head, and I'm thinking like a gibb slap from NCIS. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just a... A scab. Yeah. And asked her again, where's the photo of John? So Martha storms out of the house.
00:27:19
Speaker
mad that she was struck, right? So, and I'm gonna mix up timelines and who said who what so you can just get a full picture of what's happening here. So the factory workers next door saw bits and pieces of this. So they hear screaming, they hear the fight, and they see Martha storm out of the house.
00:27:41
Speaker
and she's looking around the yard, like just looking everywhere. And so they're trying to wait and see what's gonna happen next. Martha tries to storm back into the house, but Mariah has locked the door, obviously, and she can't get in. So now Martha's pissed, and she is stomping around the yard. She's moving like buckets. She's looking for things, and they're just all watching, just trying to see what, you know. What's crazy coo coo gonna do next? Exactly.
00:28:08
Speaker
Um, and eventually like nothing happens. Martha's just wandering around the yard. So they go back to work. They, they can't get in trouble about these two crazy people next door. So, um, and they literally, the factory workers admitted to the officers that they would just sit and watch and listen to the fights. And they saw Martha walking around, but nothing happened. It took too long. So they went back to work.
00:28:33
Speaker
Unfortunately, what they did not see was Martha continued to search the back of the property until she found what she was looking for. The axe. The axe. With that axe, she marched back up to the house and started hacking her way through the front door until she could force her way back in the house, which is why the door was on one hinge. And I mean, Mariah seems like a tough old bird, but at 80 to 85, if I'm in this house and I've got a crazy person coming through with an axe,
00:29:03
Speaker
I'm gonna find a window to leave. I'm gonna call an Uber, it's time to go. So at this point, and this part right here is speculated about what probably happened these first few times, and then I'm gonna tell you what Martha says.
00:29:21
Speaker
The speculation is that when Martha entered the house, after literally axing her way into it, she attacked Mariah with the blunt end of the ax, which knocked Mariah onto the floor. Then she took the sharp end of the ax to Mariah and struck her face. This is where, at this point, when she's got the old lady on the floor and she's hit her twice,
00:29:47
Speaker
Martha admits to stomping on the 80 plus year old woman on the floor as hard as she could with her own feet. Martha stated with her own words,
00:29:58
Speaker
that she could feel bones breaking beneath her feet and just kept stomping. Wow. Martha said she could hear Mariah gurgling and breathing through this process. She told the doctors and I quote, I don't know, I killed her anywhere, anyway. And then I got onto her with my feet and jumped as hard as I could. Yes, I did. My mother told me to kill her and kill her now. Okay, her mother. Yeah, her mom.
00:30:25
Speaker
Picked up on that, did you? So that's what Martha told them. So the thing is, Martha's mother, Susan Pierce, actually died seven years ago. She died before Martha had ever even met Alfred.
00:30:48
Speaker
Martha's mother doesn't know Mariah. It sounds like psycho, like the movie, you know. Yeah, that's actually one of the where the mom is like just kind of sitting dead in a chair for a really long time. Actually, I heard not that I don't know if it's the same movie or not, but one of the different podcasts I listened to that said this story, they said it was like Jack Nicholson going, hey, here's whatever one in the crazy movie he's in with the name of the movie off top of my head.
00:31:18
Speaker
It's like dealing with a bunch of toddlers around here. I'm sorry. All right. Oh, all right. I'll let that out. Sorry, are not. We'll see. Fifty fifty shot anyway. So so this struck the doctors is off because they know her mother's past. So they asked her how often, you know, and Martha, how often you talk to your mom?
00:31:44
Speaker
And Martha said, oh yeah, I talk to my mom all the time. In fact, she started talking to me even more here recently and she continued to tell me you need to kill that old woman. So Martha said the whole time that she is killing her mother-in-law, her mother's encouraging her to continue this process and keeps to tell her you have to kill that old woman before she kills you. And this is what Martha's telling these doctors.
00:32:11
Speaker
Martha continues to tell them, this is what happened next. Now that she's got verbal diarrhea, she's just spouting out everything and said, and this is a direct quote, another hit to the head to Mariah and opened up her skull. So the doctors asked, which I would guess with a lot of trepidation because they don't wanna know and said, what happened next, Martha?
00:32:39
Speaker
And she says, I told her, hold on now. And I turned her over and I killed her. And she did not kill me. Two more blows severed her head from her neck very cleanly. And then she lied there on the floor. So she leaned over the head, the body. She picked up her mother-in-law's head by her hair and placed it on a platter on the table.
00:33:05
Speaker
And she faced the head to where it was facing Alfie's dinner table chair, because it's a gift to him. What everyone wants, you know, for a gift. Oh my God. The severed head of their mother on a platter with a fork and a knife. So Martha said, she continues to just talk. At this point, I'd be like, we got enough. We're good. Like you're definitely getting done. I want to go. So Martha said she's now worried about what she's going to do with the rest of the body.
00:33:34
Speaker
because only the head was the present. The body is not gift worthy, apparently. But she can't take the body outside because those nosy mill workers and they'd see her if she did that. So she went to the other room, took an oil lamp and poured the kerosene oil all over the body and decided how she was gonna light this body on fire. It's again, 1800s. I don't know if they have matches back then. I'm assuming, I don't know. Rub wood together, who knows?
00:34:02
Speaker
So she took coal from the stove, she placed it in a frying pan, then placed that between Mariah's legs, allowing it to smolder until it caught with the kerosene and combusted. And at this point, the doctors were done. They, you know, they were good. They had enough information to both state that she was not sane. No shit, Sherlock, don't do that. And they're good to go. So Martha Haney.
00:34:32
Speaker
What's she about? Where'd she come from? I still wanna know where the hell Alfie is. Right? Oh, we're gonna get to poor Alfie. Poor, sweet Alfie. So Martha, let's give you, I'm gonna give you some backstory on Coco here. She had six siblings. She was like smack dab in the middle of seven children, which wolf.
00:34:53
Speaker
And while there's no solid proof or facts that I could find or that I listened to that anybody else could find, her childhood was said to be awful. Surprise, surprise, right? Her brother Richard actually made a statement saying he knew what she had endured through childhood and was really sad that this is what she became. But he never explained that statement further. And if he did, no one recorded or published what this endured, what she endured.
00:35:23
Speaker
So when Martha was only 16 years old, she married 21 year old John Woodard and they had three children together. Remember the kids in the photo frame? So John eventually left his family leaving Martha alone with three small children. And then suddenly it was just Martha. No one knows where the kids are. No one know where they went. No one knows what happened to him. The only thing everyone knows for sure is
00:35:48
Speaker
John did not take those children. He left, and it was Martha and the kids, and that was that. So Martha had told Alfie, so when they were dating or courting or whatnot, Martha had told Alfie that the two older children had been given up for adoption and were living in Ohio and Pennsylvania, but the youngest who is still a baby is a mystery to even Alfie.
00:36:12
Speaker
The only thing he knew, which he told the authorities, was he wasn't sure what happened to the baby. Martha's family just stated that she had the baby and left the house one day and then returned back a few days later and there was no child. And he knew the child was under two, but that was legitimately all he knew. She told her family she gave it away. But in general, guess what the consensus is? She killed all of them.
00:36:36
Speaker
She killed that kid. That's what everyone thinks. And so it's, you know, splashed over papers to headlines and everything else. But on May 6 in 1897, a news article came out and stated, and I am paraphrasing some of this, any suspicion that Martha Haney disposed of her child several years ago while living in Wheatfield is all wrong.
00:36:58
Speaker
She did the best of it and placed it in the care of Reverend WS Sly of Lansing, a gentleman who has done such an excellent work with the homeless children.
00:37:08
Speaker
And you actually can look into Revlon W.S. Sly. He actually did exist. And he did take in homeless children and did like create his own little orphanage and take care of these kids and was actually like a decent guy. As long as there are no dark skeletons, no one's on earth. He's a decent guy. Right. You never know. Right. He confirmed, Revlon Sly did confirm that Martha and her sister Florence had come to him with a 10 month old little boy named George.
00:37:34
Speaker
and had given the 10 month old over into his care. And he did adopt that child out. So that can be confirmed that the baby story, but no one can verify the older kids story. And honestly, I'm 50 50 because like some people argue that, well, if she gave the baby away, then obviously she'd have done the same to the older kids, but older kids are more work and more hassle a.
00:38:00
Speaker
People don't just adopt them out. If you're going to adopt any of them out, you adopt the baby out. Everybody wants a cute baby. And number two, she just killed an 80 plus year old woman with an ax. So I'm not going to put anything past this woman. Right. These children have never been accounted for.
00:38:15
Speaker
It's a 50-50 in my mind. She could have given them up. She very well could be deceased. Yes, I was trying to think of a tech boy to put this. Her sister Florence did state that Martha was happy to give the baby away because she knew she couldn't take care of the baby. And honestly, this woman should not raise children. Right. Especially by herself. But a woman in the 1890s with no husband, she doesn't have a lot of prospects here for children and how to take care of them.
00:38:43
Speaker
So Martha and Alfie were married in 1894 and they originally lived together with Alfie's parents John and Mariah in this big farmhouse and this farm property. John was a Civil War vet and after his death, Mariah, Martha, and Alfie just couldn't keep up with the farm. It was too much. They couldn't keep up with the payments and they were eventually forced to leave. So Alfie found this small little shack that they lived in. Unfortunately,
00:39:12
Speaker
where we started this story, the day, the head, everything. Alfie was the one to walk into the house that fateful day and find his mother's head, and then turned around and got the police. Since he was the first on the scene, the police needed to talk to Alfie after they got Martha squared away in jail, and they found him in a pub, which who wouldn't need a drink? You just found your mom's decapitated head, burnt body, and it's because of your wife who's in jail that your mother never liked.
00:39:42
Speaker
Mama's always know best. So he's literally there with his friends. His friends are trying to console him, not you, just his mom. Just because they say mama's always know best doesn't mean you. I was thinking maybe my mom. I don't know, you smirked at Brian like, ha ha, I'm right. No, I just smiled at him. Oh, okay. Now he's a nice guy. He puts up with you. Anyway, back to the story. I like him.
00:40:03
Speaker
Um, so they find Alfie at this pub drinking with his friends. His friends are trying to console him, maybe cheer him up. And he's literally just sitting there at the bar crying. He's having a bad day. He's, he deserves to have some emotions. Even I would be like, sorry, bro. And give a pat not talk. Yeah. You just sit there in silence and drink with your buddy. Yeah. Right.
00:40:24
Speaker
So you have no consoling words. You have never lived for this. You don't know what it feels like. You did not know. Just know. But on the other hand, I feel like if I was a friend, I'd be like, bro, we've told you this is crazy. Like the whole town knew she was crazy. You know, but in that line of defense, you know, I'm drinking. I'm going to be that person. Yeah.
00:40:46
Speaker
Would you really bring that up and just drive the knife harder into somebody who just saw his mom decapitated? You know there's one smart A in the group that was like, what'd you think was going to happen, bro? Yeah, probably. You know there's one that just can't help himself. Yeah, that's why we don't have friends. That's exactly why we don't have friends. So the police pick him up and by all accounts, he's an absolute mess.
00:41:11
Speaker
So Alfie is basically a day laborer legitimately finding jobs day to day. He does not have a profession. They're dirt poor and he's trying his best to provide for his wife and his mom. But unfortunately he's more often than not, he can't and the village rallies around to provide them food and support and that type of thing because it's just hard times and everybody kind of helped each other back then. Right.
00:41:37
Speaker
Um, Alfie told the police, the police, sorry, the police, the police. Alfie told the police that, and this is probably like the saddest statement I've ever heard, but he told them that he lived in a home that was cheerless.
Alfie's Perspective and Martha's Decline
00:41:51
Speaker
Oh. And I just think of the Grinch as a holiday cheermeister, but it's cheerless.
00:41:58
Speaker
And that's where my head goes. Okay, guys, it's been a long day. Just deal with it. No, that's just awesome. So he said that Martha was sick a lot. And, and she was kind of mentally off, I guess a lot. But recently, she'd been getting worse. And add to that, Mariah and Martha hated each other and always seemed to be fighting. Martha wouldn't even sleep in the bed with him anymore.
00:42:26
Speaker
He basically lived in an emotional landmine. And every time he walked in that house, he's trying not to set something off. Like that's his life, which sucks. It is a cheerlessly, it is black and white. There's no color in this man's world. So he confirmed to the police that he did often hear Martha speaking to people who just weren't there and that it started
00:42:52
Speaker
pretty quickly after they got married, he hadn't realized it before apparently and by the cow milk there, I guess, I don't know. And on top of all of that, she had just a hair trigger temper, like would go into explosive fits of anger over basically nothing, kind of like you do, Lisa. So.
00:43:15
Speaker
I hate you so much. I know. Yeah. I'm feeling sweet. But he said all of that was getting worse. Like she's talking to more people who aren't there multiple times a day. She's exploding. And he said that she'd be having like an entire conversation with multiple people in a room by herself. And everything was just getting out of control. Her anger was getting out of control. And the past few weeks had gotten so bad, he was scared to leave his mom alone with her.
00:43:42
Speaker
But they were at the point where if he missed a day of work, like they lost the house and that's all they have. Like he couldn't not miss a day. So he said after multiple conversations, he and Martha had finally decided, which I think basically he wore her down, but they had decided for Martha to get an appointment to get help from Dr. Sumway from the beginning of the story. So it literally happened. Alfie was working on a road job one week.
00:44:09
Speaker
The week of the murder, like all this happened in a week. He's working on a road job. And I, I read several, like some say it was a few days before the murder. Some say it was literally the day before the murder. Not a hundred percent, but yeah, right before the murder, he's working on this road job and he sees doctor some way walking down the street and decides I'm going to shoot my shot.
00:44:31
Speaker
So he walks up to him, excuse me, and he says, can you just talk to my wife? Can I send my wife? Dr. Sumway knows who his wife is. Remember, he's concerned about her mental health every time he sees her, so he's like, yeah, sure, bring her by. So Alfie goes home that night and tells his mom, Mariah, I ran into Dr. Sumway, he's gonna talk to her.
00:44:52
Speaker
He's gonna he's gonna talk to Martha and she just says boy Martha's not gonna agree to go talk to no doctor Not like that. She's gonna be pissed. You did this like you're telling people she's crazy. Basically. Yeah, she is crazy She's not gonna do this And as always as stated earlier mama knows everything so Alfie brought this up this meeting to the doctor to Martha and she went berserk
00:45:16
Speaker
However, he was eventually somehow able to talk to her into going to the doctor the next day to meet. The day before the murder, he talks her into it. So for once in Alfie's poor, pathetic years of marriage to this woman, and cheerless, colorless life, I have to imagine there's like a sliver of hope. Yeah, like just a tiny glimmer. There's help. And so Martha takes a little turn for the worse.
00:45:45
Speaker
And all of a sudden it's Mariah's fault. She's yelling and carrying on that Mariah thinks she's crazy and wants her to go talk to some doctor and Mariah set this whole thing up and stole nonsense. And she's telling this to Alfie and Alfie's like, Martha, no, I'm the one that talked to doctor some way. I think we need to get you help, but Martha wouldn't budge. It's all that awful bitty Mariah.
00:46:10
Speaker
and just mad about it again. So Alfie goes to bed, hope gone, bleak existence once again, cheerless. And he told the police that when he woke up the next morning, he got up and Martha's smiling at him. Not like a creepy smile, not like a weird smile, but like an actual she's happy. There's a smile on her face. And sadly enough, he told the doctors he couldn't even remember the last time he saw her look happy.
00:46:40
Speaker
Like it'd been forever. So he admitted that at first he questioned what's going on. But Martha told him that she just feels better. Like this is the first time in weeks and weeks she feels better. And you know, maybe it's just the idea of going to the doctor and talking to someone and getting help that snapped her out of this bad head space.
00:47:05
Speaker
or that's when she plotted the murder. But something in the middle of the night changed for her. And she told Alfie, you know, listen, it's Friday. Let's wait till tomorrow to go talk to doctor some way. That way you don't miss a day of work. You know, we can't afford for you not to get paid. We'll go meet with them tomorrow. And this is, this is the start of a new chapter for us. And Alfie was 100% willing to miss a day of work, even if it meant him not eating for a week because something had to change, but
00:47:35
Speaker
They did really, really need the money and Martha's doing good. Like she's giggling. She's happy. She's talking. She's energetic. Like we can wait a day, right? No, no. So she probably stayed up the whole night plotting this whole thing. Who knows what she did? Cause she had to know when she took that picture out of John that Martha's gonna go berserk. Yeah. So Alfie said the day of the murder, he went to work and he came home like he does every single day for lunch.
00:48:03
Speaker
And when he walked up to the house, he noticed this awful smell and then the doors hanging off the hinges and there's smoke coming from the inside of the house. So he immediately thinks the house is on fire, freaks out, runs in the house to save his mom and wife and runs smack dab into the dining room table where his mother's decapitated head is sitting there staring at him.
00:48:27
Speaker
and he peaces back out of the house. Now the mill workers and surrounding neighbors all stated like everyone asked surrounding this house that all they heard was Alfie's blood curdling scream pierced the air and when they look they see Alfie run out of the house and just keep running.
00:48:49
Speaker
And then they notice, I mean, they want to see what's going on in their look and they notice smoke starting coming out of the house. So they realize as well, like Alfie thought the house is on fire and they're going to help their community. They're going to rally. So they, they've got to help stop this fire. Alfie's obviously running the fire people.
00:49:08
Speaker
Cause there's no fun phones weren't 1800. Yep. So they legit use a hand pump and they make this like human chain. They're filling buckets and literally just throwing bucket after bucket of water through the windows of the kitchen and the house. Try to put out the fire. I was literally wondering why the other rooms were wet. Yeah. That's why, because the community is literally, they don't, they're not going in the house. They're just don't buckets of water in these windows. They back in.
00:49:34
Speaker
So at this point, one neighbor who worked at the mill went over to see what all the hullabaloo's about, and he grabs a bucket of water, but for some unknown reason, why no one thought of this before, why this poor soul decided, he runs into the house and he's gonna put out the fire. He's gonna find the source, we're not just gonna throw aimlessly, we're gonna be direct. So this poor guy runs into the house, finds the source of the fire, and dumps a bucket of water on it, only to realize he is now looking at the smoking,
00:50:04
Speaker
corpse of a decapitated body so then he looks up like what the heck and sees the lady's head staring at the table like on the table staring and the next thing he's like he's gotta just be thinking why
00:50:20
Speaker
and run buddy. And then all of a sudden before he can do anything here comes Martha calmly walking out of the back bedroom in her underwear and looks at him just goes walks back into the bedroom puts on a puts on a dress and comes back out now Martha was only in her underwear because after she butchered her poor mother-in-law the dress covered in blood so she threw her bloody dress on top of Mariah's body in the burn pile if you will
00:50:50
Speaker
to get rid of evidence. So this poor guy is standing there with a empty bucket of water. You know there's still like drip, drip, drip. There's a burnt body between his legs. There's a decapitated head there. There's a woman he just saw naked, laying on the couch, just staring at him and ignoring him. And then she gets up and walks to the wall and just starts peeling wallpaper off the wall, not saying a word.
00:51:21
Speaker
So he's finally like, you gotta go. I'm good. And peace is back outside. But Martha follows him outside. And you know, this poor guy is probably like, like crossing himself. I gotta find some holy water, like Namda Padre, Felicitas, whatever. Like, he's in trouble. Because she's just calmly walking after him.
00:51:49
Speaker
Then she goes to the backyard and just starts digging with her bare hands. And he's watching all this like, what is this crazy bitch doing? Yes. So at this point, the original crowd of mill workers and neighbors who were trying to help put out the fire are being joined by others in the community who've heard the ruckus rounding this tiny house.
Community Reaction and Legal Proceedings
00:52:13
Speaker
It's still got smoke coming out.
00:52:16
Speaker
Windows busted in, water dripping everywhere. And Martha's in the back lawn at the ground. And this, at this point across town, Alfie has made it to the police station, tells the deputy what he'd seen and brings him back to the house. So we're back at the original point of the story where the deputy and the sheriff and all them are there. And the poor guy that walked in to put out
00:52:47
Speaker
the body, he goes and he's like, um, here's what just happened. Tells the deputy all the, I mean, you don't even think that's real. Like this is what I'm pretty sure happened, but I could have stroked out and imagined this at this point. And then he's like, well come with me and leads them to the back where Martha's still digging at the ground with her hands.
00:53:12
Speaker
So when they call Martha's name, she looks up at him and just stares blankly. Like there's no one home. And when they ask her what happened, she simply looks at him and says, I killed my mother-in-law. And they're like, oh, you did? Did ya? Didn't know that. She goes, yep, cut her head off. It's all right in there. Just like motioning back to the house and resumes digging at the ground. Like this is all just like,
00:53:43
Speaker
another day. Yeah. I'm gardening. Please don't bother me with decapitated heads and bodies. I have to think at this point, she knew everybody knew about the body. So she's like, well, I can bury it now. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. So they obviously restrained her and brought her to lock up. So this is when the deputy, this is when the deputy went into the house, saw everything, immediately starts gagging.
00:54:07
Speaker
The deputy gets some men, I'm guessing the mill workers and puts them to stand guard around the house until the sheriff JJ can get there to investigate this. So I don't even, so we're all caught up with the back plot. We're all in, you know, current times in the way, way back machine. And Martha's in locked up. The police have talked to her, no results. She spilled her guts to the doctors. The police have had a conversation with Alfie
00:54:36
Speaker
about the day surrounding the events of that day. Now we're on to the next bit of investigation skill, which is the corners in quest. And I thought this was interesting because this is apparently what they did in the 1800s, 1800s, 1800s. I was going to let it slide, but okay. So at this time, the corners in quest was done to state whether or not a crime had been committed, which again, I can tell you,
00:55:01
Speaker
There have been a crime. Usually the decapitation. Yeah. Yeah. So but in the 1800s, the inquest was done. And I got to say, I dig the way they did it. I think we should bring it back. So the inquest, any coroner's inquest to determine if a crime had happened or not had to be done at the scene of the supposed crime. OK. So the law stated there in view of the dead body shall the justice of the peace say the oath.
00:55:32
Speaker
So they had to go find six law-abiding men to volunteer in the community and bring them to whatever crime scene that was, may or may not have been a crime. They'd take a note and then they determine if the crime had been committed. Wow. Okay. Can you imagine if like that's how it was done today? That would have been a totally different scenario in the case I just did last week. Exactly. Yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
Because I'm pretty sure that six law-abiding citizens from wherever, doctors, mill workers, whoever, would have been like, well, yeah, look at the shackles on the walls. Those six people are also the jurors. Like what we imagine jurors are today. So instead of like sitting here hearing court argued back and forth, they have to see the dead body and then go to where the dead body was killed and say if it was a crime or not. Wow. Yeah.
00:56:20
Speaker
It changed some things. I bet. So. So basically. The six law abiding men that volunteered would be taken in the house, they'd look at the scene, they talked any witnesses, then they'd say yay or nay if it was a crime and who they thought was guilty and state if they were guilty or not, like all wham bam, thank you, ma'am, we're done. Except the court case was sentencing and stuff, right? Right. So.
00:56:48
Speaker
They go out and find six law-abiding volunteers to go into the Haney House, who I'm all sure immediately regretted that decision when the smell hit them. But they got down to business and they investigate everything. The deputy described the scene and that the inquest had happened. And yes, there was a crime that actually had occurred and sent all that in a telegram to Sheriff JJ.
00:57:17
Speaker
So now they have to determine Martha's mental state. So the following morning on Saturday, Martha's still in lockup. She's actually been sent to jail now and they're holding Mariah's funeral at the little local Baptist church where Alfina's two sisters attended along with literally the rest of the community, the latest poor woman to rest. And while all this is happening, Martha was transported to the jail.
00:57:42
Speaker
from lockup like she's actually prison type of deal now and was described as being almost catatonic the whole way there. She had lost her ever loving mind when they put her in that jail cell though. Sheriff JJ actually slept in a cot outside of her jail cell all night long because he's worried she would try to kill herself during the night. She was so volatile.
00:58:07
Speaker
He stated that all night long she cried, she screamed, she paced like just kind of going out. So she went from completely catatonic to just this craziness. The next morning she repeated her story to Sheriff JJ stating that her mother-in-law hit her in the back with something and I thought she was going to kill me so I killed her stating emphatically that Mariah would have killed her if she hadn't done so first.
00:58:34
Speaker
He asked Martha if she felt bad for killing Mariah and she said, no, I don't feel bad because I didn't do it to be mean. You cut her head off and put it on the dining room tables as centerpiece facing her body. What do you mean? That's malicious. Oh, it's worse than that. So the sheriff stated that while she's saying all this, she's grinning ear to ear like
00:59:02
Speaker
No remorse. In my head, I'm picturing Heath Ledger from the Joker grin like he said it was scary. Yeah. Then all of a sudden, she starts banging her head against the steel bars to the point where she has blood coming down her face. And then she just alternates between singing, screaming, praying, crying, talking to people who aren't there like a complete break. And they decide at this point they need to bring in another doctor.
00:59:31
Speaker
to evaluate her mental health, which I don't know why they need another evaluation, but that's where we're at. Because something's clearly wrong and something is clearly deteriorating very quickly. So they bring in this other doctor and he tells the police he knows Martha Haney and he's actually attempted to get her committed to the asylum before. No way. He tried to get anyone to commit her.
00:59:59
Speaker
He encouraged her brother Richard to try and apply to get her taken into care. It's unknown if Richard ever tried that, but this doctor actively tried to get her committed because he knew. Her brother Richard came to visit her at some point in jail and Martha claimed not to know him. And when he says, it's me, Richard, she said, Jesus got him. I don't know who you are. So then she just starts praying and singing.
01:00:28
Speaker
And I want to sing you the song she sang. I don't want to know. She sang, Oh, I can't go to heaven to hell. I must go. Murders don't go to heaven, but that's where I'm bound to go. Over and over. And with each round, when she gets to the beginning, she'd get louder and louder and just continued it until all of a sudden she fell to the floor and epileptic seizure. What?
01:00:54
Speaker
I can't go to heaven to hell I must go. Murders don't go to heaven. And that's where I'm bound to go. I'm sorry, I'd be like, I can't be here anymore. Just thinking about it, I gotta go. I gotta go. I got something, I don't know what or where, but it's now. It's an emergency and I have to go.
01:01:16
Speaker
So my gosh. Yeah. Where do you come up with this crap? I don't know. I've got a list of things. So she Martha's brought to court and there are three doctors, Sydney Culver, Alexander McMillan and Ed Ed North of Lansing. And they're all brought in and they're given the task to determine if she's sane or not.
01:01:35
Speaker
Why we are on now the sixth doctor group that needs to say if this woman is mentally stable, I think at this point, it's just a show. Yeah. So they want to show the crazy lady. Well, I think at this point, I mean, number one, it was a brutal murder. Yeah. Brutal. Everybody in town knows about it.
01:01:55
Speaker
Everyone probably wants to see justice but she's not mentally there. Yeah, she cry cry. But they have to do like so much due diligence so there's not an outcry from the public. That's the only thing I can imagine. You want to know what really baffles me about this entire thing. Like Alfie courted this girl. And there were no signs?
01:02:13
Speaker
It can't be possible. There's no way that can't be. He was looking beyond it because that kitty was calling him. And I don't know what else like how you could be that blind to somebody being that loco. Yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
Okay. I'm sorry. I just had to throw that out there. Brian's with you. It takes all kinds of rule of the world. Hey, so there will be no decapitation in my future. Okay. Say never bro. So these three doctors were able to come to a unanimous decision that she wasn't saying shocker. And this is, this is their statement to the court. We, the undersigned appointed by the court to examine if Martha Haney,
01:02:57
Speaker
and to inquire into the facts of her case, do hereby report.
01:03:02
Speaker
to said court that we have carefully examined, said Martha Haney and inquired into the facts of her case and do find that she is at this time insane and without sufficient mental capacity to undertake her defense in this case. And she has dangerous and criminal tendencies and wholly irresponsible for her act. We base our findings on the following history and mental conditions.
01:03:27
Speaker
She has always been considered simple and feeble-minded. Ouch. Even as a child, she has been subject to epileptic seizures. She frequently engages in praying and singing of devotional songs at inopportune time and places.
01:03:43
Speaker
She presents the appearance of a simple minded person. Why they had to say that twice. I don't know. They were really trying to just bury that one. Her face lacks expression. Her conversation is disconnected. She seems almost wholly deprived of memory. Partially assumed without sorry but partially assumed without any reason like memory of the crime. Yeah.
01:04:10
Speaker
While she sometimes admits to the act of killing Mariah Haney, she does not seem to have any concept of the enormity of that crime or even that she is committed to crime. Like she said, she doesn't feel guilty because she didn't do it to be mean. She's not there. Basically, every other doctor that's come before us is right. She's not mentally stable.
01:04:31
Speaker
So she's not fit to stand trial. These three doctors attest it in front of the court, and she is committed to a mental asylum in Michigan for the dangerous and criminally insane. Unfortunately, shortly after she's committed to this mental institution, she's diagnosed with consumption.
01:04:54
Speaker
tuberculosis type of shortly after arriving, but she's had it for years, undiagnosed and untreated. Like when she first started coming in coughing, they thought it was from the smoke inhalation, but it never got better. And when they talked to Alfie, he said, no, she's had that cough for years. Remember they said she was sunk, like her face was sunk in and she had consumption for years undiagnosed.
01:05:16
Speaker
Okay, which I don't know like I'm guessing that hurts something like you're not getting if you've got consumption You're not getting good oxygen, which means your brain's not getting enough oxygen, right? I don't know I don't either um, but if they're saying this was happening before they even got married Yeah, so I don't I don't feel I feel like it would have taken her out. Yeah, if it had been that you know that far back
01:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, this is just people were saying she was crazy from the time she was married to Alfie. But they said that she was always just kind of simple minded and slow, I guess. Yeah. Well, you said that her brother was trying to. Yeah, he said that. Well, he said that she had that he knew what she'd endured her through her childhood. And he's sad to see what this was where she ended. So unfortunately, after 17 months when she was committed, she did pass away of the consumption, which honestly is
01:06:07
Speaker
a blessing for her, I feel like. There is no mental diagnosis for her. A lot of people that researched the case say paranoid schizophrenia, but I mean, you got to look at all the other stuff with the consumption for years. You just don't know what happened to her childhood. You just don't know. But like we always say, it's not an excuse. No, no, no. My thing is that she can't be completely insane.
01:06:35
Speaker
She's not mentally stable enough to fit trial, 100% agreed, but she had the mental acuity to be able to, when she cut off her head to say,
01:06:45
Speaker
I can't bring her body outside because the mill workers would see and report me like, you know what I mean? Like she was there enough to know that what she was doing wasn't right. And she thought enough to burn the body, get the oil, get the coal, like she to burn the bloody dress. Like I guarantee she was killing the wallpaper off the walls because it was saturated. But like she had somebody is mentally unstable. Most people. OK, like let's just say hypothetically, she did all of this. Yeah, went totally back crap. Yeah.
01:07:14
Speaker
But then like went to the cops on her own and bloody closed the whole night and said this is what just happened. Yeah, which is why I think schizophrenia is a is an is an accurate diagnosis because you have how many people like think to run or hide the crime or yeah, you know what I mean? But when you were saying she just sat there and dug a hole, you know what I mean? That's what makes me think like she ain't she ain't right. No, she's no most people would have taken off running. But I mean, I'm going to say it.
01:07:42
Speaker
I'm gonna say it, and it sucks to say it, but when somebody can do something like that to another human being, I don't care what's going on in their head, they're not safe.
01:07:56
Speaker
No, they're not safe and they're not going to be safe. But I don't think that she I don't think like the death penalty is should be put here because she's not mentally like she's not right. She's sick. Well, here's I think she's putting it somewhere where she's is the difference between convenient and inconvenient. OK, because the government's not the one that feeds and homes these people, right? It's American taxpayers.
01:08:21
Speaker
And so you have these people that can never be and I'm not saying put them and we put freaking dogs down for less That's not what I'm saying
01:08:32
Speaker
That's not what I'm so don't mouth it Brian that you told whatever what I'm saying is look at who you're related to not related. Oh, geez. We're not related. This is not that far south. Sorry. I feel like a relationship with that. I said no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Anyways, what I'm saying is the American people are the ones that have to pay for this. Yeah. To keep these people alive. Yeah. And well,
01:09:02
Speaker
and medicated cost actually more to put someone to death than it does to incarcerate life. Yep. That's it. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying kill everyone. That's not what I'm saying. Although sometimes, yeah, but, but what I'm saying is there's no, there is no help from the government in such things. Okay. So when people come at you and they're like, she doesn't deserve to live. No, she doesn't.
01:09:27
Speaker
She has no right to live after what she did. Crazy, not crazy, whatever. No. Held accountable, not held accountable, whatever. A lot of people will look at the victim and say, that was my mom. Yeah. I don't give a crap if you think she's crazy or not. I want to see this woman butchered. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's just human. Nate, that's your pain talking. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:48
Speaker
So we say it all the time. You can't tell me people like Ted Bundy. Yeah. And all them are lucid. Yeah. They're just freaking like anyone. There's a wire crossed up there. Anyone that can do that to another human being without remorse isn't right in the head. Period. No, just not. And you still want five minutes alone with them. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. No, I agree. But so Martha passed away 17 months after she's committed. Right.
01:10:13
Speaker
Three years after all this, Alfie meets and falls in love with a nice little lady named Alice, Alfie and Alice, and they move in together.
01:10:22
Speaker
because he bought the cow before, and look how that turned out. So we're gonna have a test run this time, I guess. I guarantee you that's what his mind is. We're gonna drive this car before we buy it, buddy. But here's the deal. People saw them move in together, saw that they were living together, and reported it. And Alfie and Alice were arrested and charged with lewd and lascivious cohabitation.
01:10:45
Speaker
No way. Because they moved in together without being married. Oh my god. And Alfie, poor sweet little Alfie who's had a crap, cheerless, colorless life, can't catch a break to save his life. Break. Get sentenced to 10 months in jail for this. Oh my gosh. And Alice gets eight months in jail. And if you do the math, the two of them together spent one more month in jail. Martha did.
01:11:12
Speaker
before she passed for murdering his mother. Well, can you imagine that? Wow. So when you were talking earlier, like he had to know, I'm thinking, well, if he had tested it out, he'd gone to jail. He didn't have a choice. He married him. Yeah. So once the two got out of lock up, they they did get married and they had a great life. The house on Elevator Street stood.
01:11:39
Speaker
People moved into it. What? Nope. No. Until 1990 when it was burned down by the fire department like in a controlled burn boat. Wowza. Can you imagine living in that house knowing? I wouldn't live that. I don't think I would. Yeah. So here's, here's an interesting story. Now I did hear about this, this story, several different podcasts and the way this story, like all the details, I got to tell you about it cause it's actually pretty cool.
Family History and Mental Health Discussion
01:12:08
Speaker
So.
01:12:09
Speaker
There's a man named Rod Sadler and he is a retired police officer from Michigan. He worked 30 years on the force before retiring and he always loved to write. Like that was a passion of his, like a hobby. So he starts looking into his family history and researching his great, great grandfather, John Jacobs Rail. And he finds a newspaper article about this grizzly murder.
01:12:36
Speaker
And looking into it thought, man, this would be a great book. And he had this love of writing. So he decided, I'm going to write a book about it. And the book is called to hell I must go. The true story of Michigan's own Lizzie Borden. Cause that's what she's referred to. No way. And if you didn't put it together, he titled the book from her creepy little ditty. Yep. Yep.
01:13:01
Speaker
and named it after the Martha original composition from the jailhouse. The book's only 176 pages. It literally took me a day and a half to read it. It's got all these facts. I did leave some of his details out. He's got a bunch of pictures and stuff. It's a really good read. But here's the weirder thing. Crazier than he finds out about this grisly murder his great grandfather solved in his hometown, writes a book. So he's doing this interview about the book.
01:13:31
Speaker
And he said that he's digging through all these old newspapers and court files and he found a circuit court file. There's only 14 page document on this case, but he said he felt like Indiana Jones discovering some great treasure direct quote. Okay. And while looking through it, he spots the address of the crime 320 elevator street where the murder had taken place.
01:13:54
Speaker
And in his own words stated, once I realized where it was, I realized that earlier in my career, I had been in that house and never realized what it was. A friend of mine, his grandparents lived in that house and we stopped over for parties.
01:14:14
Speaker
So he legit walked into that house, walked into that house, no idea that his great grandfather was in there that this horrible Lizzie Borden style murder scene. Wow. She's literally known as Michigan's own Lizzie Borden. Wow. That's insane, dude. Yeah. Now, I did do some research. The Mental Health System Act.
01:14:36
Speaker
Wasn't instituted in the United States signed by President Jimmy Carter until 1980. This happened in 1890.
01:14:48
Speaker
There was no, that's why I was talking about lobotomies. That wouldn't like, oh yeah, there's not mental health back there at this point. You're just a sacrifice and they're going to look at your brain. Well, it was, I mean, you know what I mean? Okay. There was mental health, but here's the sad thing. Number one, mental health disorders were not recognized as treatable conditions. Right. They weren't, they were a sign of, but they're probably weren't. No, they were perceived as a sign of madness, warranting imprisonment and merciless lists, merciless list conditions. Yeah.
01:15:17
Speaker
worse than we put dogs in the pound these days, right? Well, I was going to say, I mean, they used to electrocute these people and do all kinds of and look at your history, people. Between 1850 and 1900, women were placed in mental institutions for behaving in a way male society did not agree with. Women during this time period had minimal rights, even concerning their own mental health.
01:15:40
Speaker
Research concluded that many women were admitted for reasons that could be questionable since the 19th century, century, many symptoms. Like when you look over the records, people have looked over those records and people had legitimate like bipolar schizophrenia. But because there was no mental health, like you either the family did them away because she's PMSing didn't didn't work back then. No, no. Yeah.
01:16:03
Speaker
like there's there was either you hid them away in your basement and the family acted like they didn't exist or they were putting these insane asylums where they were tortured were they were they were lab experiments basically oh yeah so there was no mental health like to in today's world she'd have been treated and diagnosed more than likely probably
01:16:26
Speaker
Still could have been a threat only because oh because it was a violent tendency It was it was and they said we're not just talking like my mom at this point where we are literally contemplating murder No, so yeah, yeah, so and she was She was the Michigan asylum for the dangerous and criminally insane is where she was
01:16:47
Speaker
they renamed it, they took out the, um, criminally cause you don't have to be insane eventually. And then it became like the Iowa something like the Iowa asylum. And they're actually, there's some, um, like discovery now or somebody is doing, um, they're doing like all these interviews from people in that actual insane asylum because it was like, they haven't, like they're filming it now. They're doing like interviews with the guy. I was trying to find anything like about this asylum because quite frankly, here's my, here's my thing.
01:17:16
Speaker
She needed to not be in society. Correct. A hundred percent. But how many people that weren't like Martha's that just had a bad day or something like that are just people that just have a bad day like don't decapitate their mother. I'm not Martha's. OK, I'm just thinking about.
01:17:38
Speaker
The asylum in general, how many people are in there that should not have been in there? Mentally handicapped? They were putting there. If you had some kind of... It's like I just said, women that are PMSing because at that point in time, any man could look at her and be like, you know what? I don't like while you're acting. Yeah. The asylum that she was at actually like later on became a big huge thing because they were locking up African Americans in there. And they did like right when the civil rights and everything happened.
01:18:05
Speaker
They did a protest in front of this with like picket signs and stuff about like, there was like 20 black men that did it, bringing a bunch of attention to it. Like it's, it's been a lot of stuff, but mental health is real guys. Like.
01:18:21
Speaker
If you need help, talk to someone. It's not. And, you know, and even on the other opposite end of the spectrum, like if you have red flags where you know, so you know darn well the person that you're with, that you have known, that you've cared, that you've loved about, it's not acting right.
Mental Health Advocacy and Personal Stories
01:18:37
Speaker
See something say something out. Yeah. And, you know, I I love the fact that we are that it is it is socially acceptable now to say like I need help. Yeah. And I think Kristen Bell.
01:18:52
Speaker
actor from Frozen said it like she was being interviewed. I don't need Jimmy Fallon, Ellen, who knows she's all over the place because she's amazing. And her husband, they're hysterical together. But like they're asking her about it because she talked about either her postpartum depression, or she was talking about her depression or something about that. Yeah. And they're like, you're really open with your mental health. And she was like, if I'm sick, I go to a doctor. And if that doctor prescribes me medicine to make me better, like with the ammonia or flu or
01:19:20
Speaker
I'd be an idiot not to take it. No one shames me for taking the medication my doctor prescribes. So why would you shame me for taking an antipsychotic that my mental health professional prescribes to me? And it's 100% true. It is. People go through a lot of shit. Yeah. There are people that go through a lot. Yeah. And some people just, even if they don't go through a ton,
01:19:47
Speaker
You still have that anxiety. Like we were talking about it earlier. Yeah, exactly. I take Lexapro because I have really bad anxiety. Yeah. I can't. I get overstimulated really quick and big crowds. People piss me off and I get angry. And so I'll just use an angry person. Shut up. But you know, but but why is that with that? Like there's nothing. But it was shamed for so long. Yeah. Like even something as nobody ever wants to admit to themselves that I'm not I'm not OK.
01:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, but even mentally I'm not okay. Even something like bipolar. Yeah. Like it's, well, oh, they're bipolar. So you're brunette and I'm a blonde type, but you know what I mean? It is what it is. It is a condition you're born with and get help. Take your minute. And there is help. Yeah. That's what, you know, I shared, I shared a couple. Back then? Yeah. No, I shared a couple of weeks ago on Artlist It Tells. I have a friend I grew up with in Louisiana and her brother,
01:20:45
Speaker
was in the Navy. I remember being in the Navy. It was really hard for him. He was like underwater for months. His mom, their mom, which I, again, I grew up in their house is a psych, is a psych nurse, a fricking good psych nurse. And these people are like salt of the earth, right? Yeah. This kid was brilliant. I had the biggest crush on him. Like when I was little, like biggest crush on him.
01:21:06
Speaker
He worked for like Sony and like NASA talked about hiring him. Like he was wicked smart. Yeah. And he got paranoid schizophrenia. Wow. And went off the reservations and it has been years. They can't find him. Like he knew he had a problem. His mom's a psych nurse, but he refused to take his medicine. Didn't want to take it. Knew he'd have outbursts and just became a homeless person.
01:21:34
Speaker
And he would talk, when he talked to them, like he would, I mean, he knew, he understood in his, in his rational moments, what was happening, but they were trying to find him because it had been so many years. We shared it. They shared it. A lot of people shared it. Um, unfortunately they did find him his body. Um, he had identification on him. He had been out in the elements for like two weeks, but he was a smart, funny kid. Yeah.
01:22:00
Speaker
Like funny. I remember one time when we lived in our house in Louisiana, we called it the big house at a laundry shoot, you know, in our bathroom. And he kept like, he'd go upstairs because me and my brother's rooms in the playrooms are upstairs. And he was much older than all of us, which of course is why he was, I had the biggest crush on him. Right. And he kept running inside. He looked at his mom and be like, don't know how I got here. Did you?
01:22:22
Speaker
And he'd go back upstairs. Then all of a sudden he'd be back downstairs. Don't know how I got down here, did you? And Ms. D thought he's going down the laundry. So she went to watch him all of a sudden there comes the front door again. He'd been jumping out my bedroom window. Like just jumping out the window. And we all thought it was hysterical. And just watching like he played with us. Like he played Barbies. Like he was a great big brother. He didn't live with them full time because
01:22:46
Speaker
My friend's dad was his dad. Yeah, he lived in between Texas and Louisiana, but he was just a fun, nice kid. He was sweet. He was a good looking kid. He had literally the whole world in front of him and his mental health took him. Yeah. You can't control it. And you know what? Sometimes they don't want to be on medicine. And all you can do is love them through it and support them. But it's hard for the family. And I was going to say, too, those are the people that need to be
01:23:14
Speaker
Those are the ones that need to be in there getting help because they can't function as an adult on their own. But he, I mean, he knew, yeah, but he knew he was homeless. Like Chris said, I know this is what I choose. I don't want to be on medication. Now, when he was in his like paranoid schizophrenia fits, it was probably a little different, but he had lucid moments, call home, talk to his mom. Like it's real. So.
01:23:40
Speaker
Anyway, Martha. That was a good one. Martha, Martha, Martha.
True Crime Fascination and Commentary
01:23:44
Speaker
You're a sick person. As is. You really like the gore. You know, I do. And I got to tell you, other people like the gore, too, because I posted a meme and it said like nothing makes me more angry and I'm listening to true crime. And they're like, I'm going to cut this part out because it's too gory. What do you think I'm here for? And everybody like jumped on it was like, that's exactly what I'm here for. And I'm like, yeah, people like the we're sick, twisted individuals. What do you want from me?
01:24:10
Speaker
It's a soft point. That's a very soft point. That's a story. That was a great one. Take care of your mental health, guys. Absolutely. And if you need to go sips and vodka, I do after an evening with Lisa. I'm just saying whatever, whatever gets you there. But don't be a Martha. Don't be a Martha. Don't be a Martha. She's a Pete.
01:24:33
Speaker
Can you imagine coming in like you're just hungry. You want a sandwich. You've been working on the road in the heat all day and there's your mama's head at your dinner plate. No, Faith. I'm not going to imagine that because that's weird. What do you like? How do you that's no, Faith. Poor Alfie. You need to cut it off. Could you imagine, Faith? Can you imagine finally meeting a nice girl and you're like, I'm going to test this one out and live with her and you're arrested and put in jail?
01:24:59
Speaker
That's great. He can't catch a break. No, that poor guy. I feel sad for portal Alfi. Anyway, that's all. All right, guys. Y'all have a great night. Have a great Memorial Day weekend. And we'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye. Bye.