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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - West Virginia & Washington
56 Plays2 years ago
We are down to the 2nd to last stop of our "Summer" Road Trip through the United States.....up first
West Virginia (3.46 - 35.25) Lisa is telling us the harrowing story of when you pick the wrong friends, and the way Skylar Neese was brutally murdered by those who she chose to spend her time with.
Washington (35.26 - 1.33.40) Faith is taking us through Washington to look at the Tube Sock Killer - the possible suspects and why #stayinsidestayalive is a thing!
As always - we love hearing from you, so send us questions, comments, suggestions and ways you think we can improve twistedtalestruecrime@gmail.com
As always, I'll be posting photos & tid-bits throughout the week, so feel free to come join us on our socials:
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Setup
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, hello, people. Why? Hello. This is Faith. Miss Lisa. This is Twisted Tales without our intro music, because I don't have all my chords. Sometimes you just can't always be prepared, you know, especially when you have a kid that likes to take things.
Summer Road Trip Challenges
00:00:13
Speaker
All right. Yeah, there's plus, you know, human nature. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, we'll be on our second to last stop on the summer road trip. Yeah, I know. I think it's hilarious that we're all like, yeah, we're going to do two every week. And then we're like, yeah, we're going to do two every week.
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to do like one. God, what are we done with it? So I'm sorry that we're not dropping the way that we were dropping before. But you know what? The momentum has definitely slowed. And these states are hard, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them, there's really not a whole lot. I mean, you know.
Stereotypes and Perceptions of West Virginia
00:00:47
Speaker
But tonight we have stories. We do. We have stories. So you're a rock, paper, scissors. I mean, I guess. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Oh, I won that one. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. And of course, Lisa goes again. And we're going to West Virginia. That's all I got for me. I kind of feel bad.
00:01:15
Speaker
I don't know if it's like that in like any other state, but like in Tennessee, we're all like West Virginia, like in breeders. What's that movie? Frankie used to love it. The scary movie with the in breeders. Oh, yeah. Wrong turn lies to do. Yeah. So that's what I do. Like when you said that, that was awesome. Yeah, I just kind of I'm not going to lie. I did halfway think about going down that.
The Disappearance of Skylar Neese
00:01:42
Speaker
that avenue, but took a U-turn because I saw a TikTok. And I was like, interesting. I remember the story, but I don't remember really going into like, you know, there was not a whole lot of research done. It was just something on the news and it was like, oh, you know, so-and-so one missing, blah, blah, blah.
00:01:59
Speaker
So when I saw the TikTok and I started listening to a little bit of what she said, I was like, this is interesting. And they were like, and this happened in West Virginia. And I was like, well, there's my story. So fell into it. Meanwhile, I researched for a week. Well, she was also researching the wrong state again for her next. No, I had I called her out. I had Washington done. I started trying to get my next one ready to hopefully record like quicker.
00:02:23
Speaker
Um, and I was doing the next state of Wyoming, which is yours and thank God, not mine. Yeah. So I thought it was kind of amazing. She got, she didn't have a story. She has won every single game today. Like not even, not even joking. She's like, I was like, it doesn't make any sense. And she's like, well, how does it not make sense? And I was like, you have Wyoming. I mean, like,
00:02:48
Speaker
Well, I can't have Wisconsin. That's not alphabetical. Oh, my gosh. I started screaming. So she was like jubilant and looked it up and she's like, oh, my God, you're the one with Wyoming. And so she's like cackling over our phone call this morning.
00:03:04
Speaker
Not a lot. Right. My life. Right. We get we get to the house and we're sitting down to record and I said, hey, do you ever look into to see who left off in our podcasts when we start doing every other. Well, yeah. No. Once a week. Yeah. But it'll be like back and forth. Right. And she's like, oh, I can look that up right now. And we can look at lo and behold. Who is it, Lisa? Then she loses rock, paper, scissors. I won. I said, Lisa, I was talking to the third person. Sorry.
00:03:33
Speaker
Lisa lost yet again because you're a loser and I'm a winner. But yeah, you go ahead, keep with that face. That was cute. You know. All right. So I get him in West Virginia.
00:03:49
Speaker
Well,
Friendship Dynamics and Social Media
00:03:50
Speaker
that'll clearly be the last time I say my state tonight. Only because faith is literally goody. So tonight I'm going to talk and tell you guys a story about Skylar Nees. That name is so familiar. You'll know it as soon as I start talking about it. So Skylar Nees went missing back in 2000.
00:04:11
Speaker
Let's see, 13. You know, no, it was 2012. My apologies. I started looking into this case and reading crap and listening to they actually did 48 hours on her on NBC, I think it was. So there was a lot of background stuff to like her life. She was a great kid, you know, super bubbly, super nice, popular,
The Night Skylar Disappeared
00:04:34
Speaker
the whole nine.
00:04:36
Speaker
And she went to grade school with a couple people. One of the girls was Morgan, who they had literally grown up together. They were talking about how they were, you know, they were basically sisters and this, that, and the other thing. And as Skylar, as kids do, as they got older, they kind of... There was another girl named Sheila that she went to elementary school with.
00:04:59
Speaker
And it was Sheila Eddie and the two. Oh, I know this story. You were like besties. They hung out all the time. By the time they got into high school, they met a girl named Rachel Shofe. Just watch this on TikTok last night. They all three became like just like the click, right? The three musketeers, you know, that whole deal. And sorry, I'm distracted. There's children running behind me anyway.
00:05:30
Speaker
So the three of them like literally spent every day together. They hung out every day. The interviews and stuff that I'd listen with the parents and all this kind of stuff like, you know, Rachel's parents, very religious. Sheila's, you know, all of them were only children, but Sheila's family life was kind of maybe a little on the rocks. She kind of had a rougher upbringing, blah, blah, blah. So.
00:05:53
Speaker
Basically, Skylar's parents took her in. OK. And they were good people. Yeah. Like not like took her in like they didn't live together or anything, but like just treated them like both these girls like they were family. Yeah. The more they hung out and all this stuff was posted all over because this was like social media time. Yeah. OK. So you can look up TikToks, not TikToks, Twitter, Facebook accounts. Yeah. All this kind of stuff. Yeah. And Instagram big hits.
00:06:19
Speaker
And you can see all these girls just running around having a good time, like just best of friends. Things started getting weird. Dad said her, Skylar's dad said she would be home a lot by herself, like pacing, upset. You know, mom was like, you really like Twilight books? Why don't you just read those? Because Rachel and Sheila at that point were just sort of ditching a lot.
00:06:43
Speaker
And that's teenage girls. Yeah, I was
Investigation and Parental Struggles
00:06:45
Speaker
just going to say that teenage girls are just sucky. You know, but Tyler kind of took offense to it and she wanted to be back into the group. So she was still like hanging out with them once in a while. But a lot of the girls, per the rumors that were going around the school, per what the kids were saying when they were interviewed was they were talking a lot of smack about scholar. And I reiterate teenage girls. I did when I was a teenager. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We still do. So.
00:07:12
Speaker
As time goes on, their relationship keeps hitting all these rocks and rumors start flying around about Rachel and Sheila and about like, you know, them being intimate with each other. Right. Their sides of the story was like, well, no, we were dating. We had boyfriends. We were being.
00:07:30
Speaker
intimate with our boyfriends, blah, blah, blah. And Skylar wanted nothing to do with that. We didn't really want to be around with her. We just didn't like her, right? So sorry, my kid just called me. I lost my train of thought. Well, like I said, they were basically ditching her. One night they all decided they were going to sneak out of the house, which was not the first time they snuck out. Skylar was kind of one of those girls that didn't exactly enjoy doing stuff like this. She didn't want to go against the grain from her parents. Yeah.
00:07:58
Speaker
but she also kind of felt in that moment like teenage emotions, whatever, I'm lonely. She wants her friends back. Yeah, she wants her help, man. And so she just went ahead, she decided she was going to go, and that night was the last night that she had ever been seen. So as I started like looking through more stuff and looking through all the TikToks, not TikToks, why do I keep saying TikToks?
00:08:22
Speaker
Well, it's still not, you know, whatever. But the research I was doing, there were like YouTube videos and a lot of people have done this
Confession and Sentencing
00:08:30
Speaker
particular case. They actually have like Instagram videos and Facebook videos of Sheila asking Rachel and Skylar
00:08:43
Speaker
Hey, you know, how would you rather die? You know, would you rather die by drowning or exphyxia or being eaten by ants or what? Not by my friends betraying me. Right. Yeah, not by my friends betraying me. That was definitely not an option. Of course not. So after the body went missing or after Skylar went missing,
00:09:06
Speaker
that evening or that that next day the dad was like something's not right she's not in her room mom was like i mean it's summer she's clearly out probably running the town doing whatever you know we'll we'll just be patient calm down and i'm in the dad's boat she's supposed to be at work at four we'll call it four ten if she's not there by four ten then we're we're gonna start calling around we'll see we'll see what's going on right because no in the back of your mind
00:09:31
Speaker
You're not thinking that about your kid, especially when it's going to happen. Exactly. Exactly. And for all, you know, for all they knew, Skyler was a good kid. Yeah. You know what I mean? She doesn't pull random stupid stones. She's not one of those. Hey, let me go out and get blitzed every weekend. Like that's just not that's not her. Yeah. So. Four o'clock rolls around.
00:09:55
Speaker
I haven't heard anything from her dad even sent her a voicemail and was like you are in huge trouble You need to call me back now and her and her dad were like super super freaking close Yeah, not that she wasn't close to her mother, you know And I know a lot of people are always like oh, what about the mom or what about the dad? It's not like that like Every kid has that personal relationship where they click more with one parent over the other and there's nothing wrong with that It's just a personality thing. Yeah so
00:10:24
Speaker
Again, dad called, leaves the voicemail and here's nothing back. And they didn't even have a chance to call Wendy's. Wendy's called them at four 10 and was like, Hey, is everything okay? And Skylar coming into work today. She's sick, blah, blah, blah. And her parents immediately stomach drops. This is not, this is not good. Yeah. So we call the Popo. Popo's like, you know, typical Popo response, probably a runaway. Everything's going to be fine. We'll be in contact. Yada, yada, yada.
00:10:51
Speaker
Nothing. Nothing was really done. Like I said, I get it because anytime there's a runaway or I mean, it's teenagers, but I get that. But no, you better. Well, it is missing. Go find them. It's not even just that. Like you can't just automatically assume that every single case that's brought to you as a teenage runaway. Correct. That's my point. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I get that there's some, but not all of them that the evidence has provided and proved that the kid probably just up and left.
00:11:21
Speaker
OK, fine. I'll buy that. But you need to take every case seriously. Yeah. Because you don't know. Correct. And so just just because you're like, oh, well, see if it's the description of ABC or D. Yeah. OK, we all know that teenagers are crazy and hormonal.
00:11:36
Speaker
We also know they make really bad dumb choices, okay? All valid. Not just running away, but getting into a stranger's car, going to meet up with some guy we met online, going, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not just one thing or the other. Like, you need to check the app. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying.
00:11:51
Speaker
because it's like what the first 24 hours is the most 24 48 hours is the most likely you're it's the most critical kidnapping victim and so I just assumed that they're they're run away in the most critical time to find them just just a question yeah but you know continue yeah so Sheila after they go you know dad calls Sheila oh yeah we were together last night we picked her up around 11
00:12:15
Speaker
Um, and then we dropped her back off. She, she asked us to park down the street. She didn't want to wake guys up. She didn't want to get in trouble for sneaking out, blah, blah, blah. So full of crap. Oh yeah. Huge. But nobody, like when I tell you nobody suspected her two best friends, I'm not joking. Okay. So.
00:12:35
Speaker
The first day or two go by, there's still nothing to be heard. A week goes by, nothing's heard. Sheila has been at Skyler's parents' house every day, hanging up posters with them. What a piece of crap. Yeah, dude, walking and knocking on doors. Have you seen this girl crying with the mom, crying with the dad? So she's a better actor than Rachel. I didn't really mention much about Rachel during that aspect of it. All the kids at the school that were interviewed by the cops,
00:13:05
Speaker
because there were rumors that were floating around. There was a party.
Reflections on Youth Violence and Media Influence
00:13:08
Speaker
It was a possible overdose. Somebody knows something. You guys need to tell us something. The more they drove into anything, it was more or less rumors that were going around. Probably started by Sheila and Rachel. Nobody knows, right?
00:13:29
Speaker
The cops ended up calling in the FBI Take to get the FBI involved in this because now this little girl's been missing for a while And I think I think they found her body like six months later And now here's here's where it got really catchy for me and this is where I think people in a sense are normal and
00:13:47
Speaker
when it comes to pure emotion, like there are some people that don't have empathy. There are some people that don't feel anything towards somebody else. But nine times out of 10, if you have a partner in crime, they're not as twisted as you. One of one of them are going to write guilt remorse something. So FBI comes in, they start harping.
00:14:09
Speaker
on Rachel and Sheila, like harping, digging in so much so that Skylar's father, the missing girl, went to the police station and was like, leave these kids alone. Oh, I bet he just leave these kids. Oh, and I like.
00:14:29
Speaker
Huh. Emotional one on one. Right. The more I looked at this, the more I was like reading this crap. I was sitting here like I went to bat for these kids. Yeah, that's why I stood up for them. I defended them. I want them dead. Like, yeah, like that might be a little bit morbid, but whatever. So FBI is still, you know, they're pressing them. Everybody kind of just winds down a little bit. There's still no real information about anything.
00:14:58
Speaker
Um, except for this, you know, party that had happened. It was a possible overdose. They ditched the body because they were worried that, you know, they were going to get busted. Basically more time goes by and Rachel starts having these like fits. Okay. Like panic attack type of deal. You know, I'm not a hundred percent sure, but there is a 911 call where her parents called the police to come and get her. They could not control her. She was screaming. She was yelling. You can actually hear.
00:15:27
Speaker
the phone call, you can hear Rachel in the back just screaming incoherences, okay? And so the cops show up, they don't really know exactly what she told her parents, but they brought her to a psych ward. At the psych ward, they wound up getting a lawyer and said, hey, you know, so-and-so's lawyer, whatever, or cops, whatnot, meet us at my lawyer's office, I'm gonna tell you what happened.
00:15:57
Speaker
Now, one can only assume that the parents thought, well, we're going to go ahead, and we're going to round up a lawyer and do this, because you're not just going to confess. We're going to get some kind of deal out of this. No, I'm sure. So Rachel told them what happened. They proved all of that by pinging her phone, saying, hey, you know, whatever. Yeah, I was here at this point in time, blah, blah, blah, walked her to it. Here's where you can find the body. The crappy part was the body wasn't there anymore.
00:16:27
Speaker
According to statements, they had plotted this out for like weeks, like almost a month. They had a shovel, they brought paper towels, they brought bleach to clean up after themselves, kitchen knives, yeah, the whole nine. And they basically took this girl to the woods and stabbed her to death. They said, you know, they asked, you know, why'd you do it? And they said, well, we just didn't like her anymore. And that's justification. It also came out
00:16:56
Speaker
that her, because they asked, you know, did she say anything when you guys were doing this? Like, why didn't you stop? And Rachel was like, well, she just asked us, you know, before she died, like, why? And she had actually, she ran from them, got away at one point, got tackled back to the ground by Rachel. She, Skylar, got the knife out of one of their hands and ended up cutting Rachel in the back of her leg. That's neither here nor there. Basically their statement said she fought like hell. Yeah.
00:17:26
Speaker
So then we're going to we'll move on. The cops didn't really do much after Rachel's statement. And they were like, well, all right, you know, that's cool. There were no arrests made. Nothing. They were like, we're going to get Sheila. We're going to wait this out. We're going to just sit on this information for a bit and we're going to make sure we pin or nail her butt to the wall in a nutshell. So that is literally what they wound up doing. They found all of those things I was talking about earlier about the death game.
00:17:56
Speaker
They found friends at school who heard them say we may as well just kill her They've they I mean all kinds of stupid crap not to mention her lovely tweets that she was tweeting out about certain things where Rachel confessed to the cops that she counted to three because they asked Skyler to go back and get the lighter because they were gonna smoke weed or whatever and She said hey, we run back to the car and grab the lighter real quick
00:18:22
Speaker
Scholars like, yeah, yeah, I'll go. And Rachel said, OK, on three, one, two, three. Right. And that was when they attacked her on one of Sheila's tweets. She said we really did go on three. Now, this is before any admission to the crime. Any of that. OK. Yeah.
00:18:41
Speaker
She even had another post that had in quotes. Why is my favorite question Sheila okay, the one that was crying with her mother the one that was one that was stomping ground with her and was like Hey, where is she? I miss her. I love her so much. Oh, yeah your psychopath if you can do that garbage
00:19:03
Speaker
OK, so I know I did my best. So here are these two girls now. They finally they get the girls into court and there was literally no rhyme or reason. Again, one of the biggest excuses, I guess, or stories at that time was that Rachel and Sheila were in some kind of a relationship and
00:19:30
Speaker
Skylar knew about it and threatened to out them. That was one theory. According to both girls, it was just because they didn't like her anymore.
00:19:39
Speaker
And I'm just, you know, I like sit here and I'm so taken aback by that information. I'm sitting here thinking, OK, could it really be that bad? OK, find your friend out to you. I don't care if your parents are religious or not or your mom is going to kick you out. You know what I'm saying? Like, just be like, Mom, I'll do better. Like how many how many parents are really like you feel like you have to take somebody else's life. It doesn't make any sense that that was the motive, in my opinion, because all she wanted to do is hang out with them.
00:20:08
Speaker
If she was blackmailing them for something else, she wouldn't have gone to hang out with them that night. Yeah, she just wanted her friends. So even if she was like.
00:20:16
Speaker
I'm going to tell if you don't start talking to me again, we'll just be your friend. Yeah. And well, I mean, not that hard to be nice to people. I was just going to say it like on the on the other spectrum of it, you really don't like this girl anymore. Go, sir. Just go, sir. Yeah. You don't you don't owe anybody an explanation for anything twisted individual who wanted to hurt someone else and talk to her other friend into it.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, basically. Wow. Sheila was the one. Sheila was the one that was friends with her from like elementary school. That was my question. Which one? That's the creepy part to me. It wasn't even the outsider coming in. It was Sheila, this girl that like your parents break down over what they did. Yeah, literally had a mental breakdown over whatever. So, yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
You hear Sheila just sitting here like, broadcasting it. Broadcasting her little smarmy Facebook messages and crying with her mom holding their, how do you look those parents in the eyes knowing that you're the one that did it? See, that's what I, that's what I feel like makes you a sick and twisted person. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that she's a sociopath, like there's no way you're not. Absolutely, she's a sociopath, okay? Because most people are gonna, if they did something like that and they really had remorse or regret for what they did, they're gonna avoid you like the play. Like Rachel did, and then have a mental breakdown. Yeah.
00:21:30
Speaker
That's that's a normal response to something horrible that you did. She's I mean, I've seen I've seen people have mental breakdowns over less accidentally from work. Yeah. Well, no, I'm just like, you know, accidentally hurting somebody like just. Yeah, I, you know, I can remember one time working at the daycare and there I worked in the one year old room. Now, the girl, my coworker at the time was like seven months pregnant.
00:21:56
Speaker
and standing on a stool. And I kept telling her, I'll do it, get down, this is ridiculous, don't do it. Well, we had all the kids at the carpet, right? And we were about to read a story and she literally got on the step stool to reach out to get a book.
00:22:09
Speaker
Mm hmm. And she almost fell. OK, so here I am. I'm watching this happen. I run to her to try to stop her from falling. But in the process, I need one of the little boys in the face. You did. OK, I got she didn't fall. We were good. But that boy, a little boy, that that little boy had to shine her from where I am in the face. And I just remember I called that mom.
00:22:37
Speaker
bawling my eyes out and i was like but i need him square in the face and she's like lisa just calm calm down it's he's gonna be fine okay and she was a nurse too so she's not she wasn't worried about it because you know some parents are crazy well they knew me they've known me for so long i didn't take care of their kid before that yeah but and so you know some i remember some of those parents that they had
00:23:01
Speaker
Oh, it could have been, it could have been really bad, but it was not, it was, it was a complete accident. And I'm just sitting here and I'm like.
00:23:09
Speaker
I've never felt so horrible in my life. You know what I mean? Because this was before I even had kids. Yeah. So it's not like, you know, I can understand the mother's rage now. Right. But you need an innocent one year old in the face, Lisa. But I stopped the pregnant woman from falling off a step stool and concussing a one year old. It wasn't. OK, first of all, I just said that's the difference between a psychopath and a normal person. I felt horrible for what happened and immediately confessed to that mother.
00:23:39
Speaker
This is what happened. So I would feel like the same thing. If something happened and it was an accident and it was a whatever, I would go to that parent or go to that spouse or whatever and be like, this is what happened. You know, I'm going to deal with my consequences. You know, it is what it is. These girls had no intention of telling the truth. And I think it ate away at Rachel so bad. Yeah, she broke. Yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker
No, whether she did it out of, uh, not fear. Well, yeah, maybe fear of Sheila, but she did it out of, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Faith self.
00:24:17
Speaker
self-preservation, self-preservation, but literally couldn't take it anymore. But I mean, self-preservation is if if Skylar was threatening to out them if they were in a same sex relationship that their parents would freak out about, not. And I mean, it was 2012. I'm not saying self-preservation of why they committed the crime. I'm saying it was self-preservation for her to keep her mouth shut. Oh, yeah. If she was killing that much guilt and while the FBI breaks down like your you know, you're in trouble. Exactly.
00:24:46
Speaker
Like you're in big trouble. Yeah. She's OP. And again, post it just all over the Internet and how smug. Oh, you should. Narky. Oh, I was looking up. That's what I was doing on my phone a minute ago. I was looking at pictures to post on Facebook and Instagram. And she is just smarmy like her mug shot pictures looks like a glamour photo. Right. Like exactly. Immaculate, curled.
00:25:10
Speaker
Like freshly curled makeup done. Like she's not really smiling, but she's smirking. And in court, even when she's not like done to the nine, almost emotionless. Oh, yeah. Like don't even care. No, no, you can tell that none of it is like serious to her. Like she couldn't care less. Yeah. And I sat and watched. Oh, if I was those parents victim statements. Yeah. I watched some of those. Listen to some of those. And when the dad got up, he barely even functioned.
00:25:37
Speaker
Did you imagine being that dad after you defended that monster? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's he was one of the ones that said straight up, I will be at every single hearing she ever has for the rest of her life till I'm dead. I hope. Are they still both in prison? Yeah. I mean, I'd hope so because it's only been, you know, or the plea deal. Mm hmm. Rachel received a 30 year sentence and up for parole in 15 and Sheila got life sentence.
00:26:07
Speaker
in an adult prison with, but she's up for parole in 15 years. So wow. That's two, to my knowledge. They're still sitting there, but you know, we sit in like, I am not God. Okay. So I don't know how people's minds work now, but when it comes to my feeble little mind about forgiveness, it's not just about forgiveness. It's about repercussion. Yeah. So even if that mom and dad forgave them,
00:26:36
Speaker
It doesn't mean they don't have consequences to their actions. Yeah. But the thing is, is like when you talk about kids that are so young, they were kids that did something so stupid. Now, first of all, it still has a lasting impact on the on Skylar's parents. So they don't get a free pass just because they were kids. They were old enough to know the difference. Oh, absolutely. It's not like they were a little kid. But I guess, you know, part of it, too, confuses me because like we're in the technology age when this happened.
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah, they could not have honestly thought they were going to get away with it. But then you never think you're going to. But no, here's the deal. They probably could have gotten away with it had Rachel not had a break out. Yeah. Because no one in their right mind thought her two best friends. No, Skylar's dad was freaking defending them. Yeah. Wow. So I don't know. I remember hearing about this case because back in because I had my son in 2013 and this was when the trials and all that stuff was going on. I'm sitting here thinking they're kids.
00:27:36
Speaker
their kids, but they're not. How do you how do you young adults? There were 16. It's still a young. I mean, that's high school. They're still dumb enough to know better. I know that didn't make any sense, guys, but literally dumb enough to know better. Yeah. But I can just sit there. I can remember like hearing about it and sitting there thinking, like, this is this is what I have to grow my kid up in. Like, I remember so many stories that like haunted me the whole time I was pregnant with my son that, you know, the girls that
00:28:04
Speaker
That video recorded trapping that one girl. Yeah. And they posted it on YouTube like the boys stood outside and they like literally beat this girl to death. Yeah. And I'm like, what? What? Like what's going on right now? How does that happen? I don't I don't know. There was a I believe you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure because it's on my list for when we do the TV or TC for TV versus free time.
00:28:32
Speaker
S.V.U. did an episode like this where they found her body in the trunk. Yeah. Cigarette burns all over. Remember that? I think so. And it was two best friends. And that came out forever ago. That episode did because Stabler was still in it like original S.V.U. days. But the two girls brought their best friend out and they left her like after they murdered her viciously, left her in the trunk of a car. And then she was finally found in the trunk of the car dead. But it was the same. It's the same plot line.
00:28:59
Speaker
just came out on TV, you know, five years before it happened in real life. So you think that was like just a weird idea they may have seen on like SPU or just kind of a random ironic statement that you wanted to make. I just think it's like random that. Well, I'm going to be honest with you, too, like criminal minds and SPU and all those other shows always have that warning at the beginning and just does not depict any real scenarios. I think you're. But it also says ripped from the headlines. So. Yeah, I was going to say, like, there's no way. Oh, no, there's no way they do stuff that
00:29:29
Speaker
And if you Google like active serial killers, like just even around the world, like you wouldn't, you know what? Do that. That's a project for all of you. Go Google active serial killers in 2022 and see what it says. It has faith picks up a phone. So again,
00:29:47
Speaker
case does not have a happy ending I know it started out kind of slow but the kids are being a little rambunctious and I was trying to remember this was my my first go-around of not pulling the mic away from my face to read my notes so it kind of took me a minute to just kind of remember but
00:30:05
Speaker
I mean, these two girls, they've got their sentences and it's so hard to sit back and look just as a parent. Like, where did I go wrong? And I feel like if I was ever in that situation, like, how did I not know? Yeah. What was what was so time consuming in my life that I missed this completely? You know, and poor Skylar's parents.
00:30:28
Speaker
basically did that to themselves, but I don't feel like that should have been there. No, that was not their burden. That should have been Rachel's and more important. Sheila's Sheila. Yeah. Sheila's burden. But then again, I mean, you say all that. It's easy to say that it's not the parents fault just because you have a twisted kid. And no, they're obvious. That's not what I mean by that. I know that I'm clarifying because not everybody knows you like I do.
00:30:52
Speaker
but Sheila was sociopath. Like she sat there crying and looking for this girl. Her parents probably had not a fricking idea. And quite frankly, high school girls are mean. Let me reiterate, like my little clique in high school, we were always like, if somebody was always odd man out, someone was always not in the group at a given point in time. I took my turn where everybody else would pick on you or talk about you.
00:31:18
Speaker
This is why when I found out I was having a girl I cried for like a day because high school middle school and high school girls are mean They're probable. Yeah, and they're mean to their friends and they're mean to everybody else around them and So, you know what? I mean boys have their own they do Forbid you wear glasses and you're smart. You're a boy like you're screwed Yeah, but my point is is that just because Skyler wasn't hanging out with him that doesn't mean that like the other two parents are
00:31:47
Speaker
Now, my parents were always super involved. I tried to keep them out because my mom will mama bear anybody in her head off. Right. So like if if it was my turn to get picked on by the group, I never told my parents because my mom would kill those girls. Yeah. But.
00:32:01
Speaker
If my parents found out that we were picking on someone else, we got in trouble. My parents sat us all down. And that's the crappy part. Like as a as a team, you don't want to tell your parents what's going on in your life, right? Because one, it's embarrassing to your feelings, right? And you're allowed to feel what you feel. And you kind of know in the hormonal. Well, I don't think that they knew that in the past, but more or less like I can deal with this on my own. Yeah. And that's that's the attitude that a lot of kids have.
00:32:28
Speaker
In this case, you've got witnesses saying, you know, I heard them say something we may as well just killer or, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. But none of that came up in a timely fashion after this girl went missing. Because probably none of them. It was just an afterthought. It was just I mean, how many times do a day do I like I've had to I've had tried to quit saying it. So I've paid attention. Well, I'm like, I'm going to kill him. Like just joke. Oh, yeah. I tell my boss all the time. I think I told my the tall one boss.
00:32:58
Speaker
I'm going to kill you like four times today because he, you know, was lumping more work on me.
Transition to a New Washington Story
00:33:03
Speaker
But my daughter, when she went to aftercare, um, it was like the first week and they were like, uh, miss, miss Pazuo, we need to have a chat because she was telling everyone she was going to kill them or her father was going to kill them or I was going to kill them. And you know that they, they frowned upon death threats to other children. But it made me realize how many times I say it like, as an adult, you know, that you don't, you're,
00:33:26
Speaker
As an adult, you're like, you're not planning on actually killing someone. So even when you hear that, you don't think it's like, I mean, it's such a statement. Yeah, it's a statement. Desensitized. Yeah, that's my that's my thing is we've desensitized that statement so much. So just because people hear heard them say, well, might as well go and kill her. Like they didn't know that they were going to. Who would have thought that they were going to do that? Seriously? Yeah. No, I agree. You're absolutely right. She's absolutely right. Well, I hope she was having a horrible time in prison.
00:33:55
Speaker
No, and she was a kid when she went into adult prison. I hope so. Be the crapper. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, I know that's harsh to shake it like harsh to say because she was a kid, but you know about her at 16. Like, you know that when you kill someone, they're dead for real. Yeah. Oh, I just don't understand how somebody could be so manipulated by somebody else that you're
The Camping Trip Tragedy
00:34:14
Speaker
like, yeah, let's stab them to death with kitchen knives. But how many times have we said on this podcast, you need to be careful who your friends are because they affect the rest of your life. I agree. They can. They have the potential.
00:34:25
Speaker
No, but I'm just thinking common sense wise. You should have looked at your little lover and said, um, you're batshit. Yeah, I'm out. Like, don't DM me. Yeah, please. If you could just not ever talk to me again, that'd be great. Fantastic. I'm going to go anywhere else. Anywhere else. Anyway, I'm going to be not here.
00:34:46
Speaker
All right. Get me away from you. Oh, yeah. That's the second reference reference to son in law that we've had tonight. It's just a good movie tonight. Yep. Yep. All right. Faith, you're up. Slugger. So you are done with your state. I guess. Well, I mean, there's so many more opinions to be had, but West Virginia is now.
00:35:22
Speaker
All right, so meanwhile and Washington, uh-huh. All right. Well, let's head to Washington. All right. Well, this is faith and we are headed to Washington. We're going to
00:35:37
Speaker
Mineral, Washington, and we're going to be in the slightly way back machine, not super way back, like barely hop, skip at a jump to 1985. That's the year I was born, so it can't be too far back. Really, really needed to use hop, skip and a jump. I just wanted to reiterate that that's not old, basically. Oh, OK. Anyway, yeah, that's the way way back. The point.
00:36:01
Speaker
Um, and the case I'm talking about tonight was discussed multiple times, newspapers, the news, like over the air, cause that's the time, multiple options of who done it. We're going to throw around as we're talking like that was flashed in the paper, that kind of thing. Okay. Remember eighties was hyped up, still a serial killer time in USA. Seven days, dude. Seven days early eighties. Yep.
00:36:25
Speaker
So that's where we're at. Let's start on August 10th, 1985. Oh, I was born in 85. I know. So see, you're super old too. That's the way way back machine. 27 year old Steven Harkins. Harkins? No.
00:36:46
Speaker
I'm sorry. You're like, I was trying to say the really smart wheelchair guy. There's no W in his name. Harkins H-A-R-K-I-N-S. Steven Harkins, along with his girlfriend, Ruth Cooper, who was 42, a little bit of a cougar there.
00:37:09
Speaker
Um, left their home in Tacoma, Washington to go on a nice little, if you want to say romantic weekend camping trip, um, that they'd planned it to a lake. The two worked at the same vocational school in Tacoma. So they got off work, went on their hiking trip, camping trip, Monday morning rolls around and neither of them showed up to work. Oh.
00:37:32
Speaker
So both of their families get the call, hey, want to make sure everything's OK. And both families immediately are nervous and report them missing. It only took around four days on August 14th when hikers were going through the Pierce County hiking trail, which was like tools on.
00:37:53
Speaker
and found Stephen's body near a very remote campsite that they had set up. Stephen had been shot in the head with a .22 caliber gun, and his body had also been shot. But when they found his body, it was tucked into a sleeping bag, which there's a lot of speculation. There was a lot of arguments both ways on a lot of these things.
00:38:18
Speaker
Um, but him being tucked in a sleeping bag shot kind of suggested that he was asleep when he was murdered. Um, however, the other side of that is he could have been getting ready for bed are going to sleep and got woken up and he's in a sleeping bag. He couldn't get out in time to defend himself. Right. Like you're tucked in. Um, either way, he was murdered nearby the campsite searchers also came across Steven's pet dog, which had been shot to death as well.
00:38:48
Speaker
There was no
Linking Murders and Investigation Challenges
00:38:49
Speaker
sign, however, of Ruth Cooper. Two months later, on October 26, a skull was found near Hearts Lake, which is located about one to two miles from where Stephen's body was found. Dental records confirmed that this skull did belong to Ruth Cooper. Two days later, they were able to find her body and her purse near the area where her skull was found.
00:39:13
Speaker
Um, a tube sock had been tied around Cooper's neck and an autopsy that was performed on the body, uh, determined that she died of, they released the statement homicidal violence, which they can't see me do air quotes, but homicidal violence. I don't even know what that means. I don't know. But later, like a homo homicidal, like homicide, not homicidal, homicide, homicidal. Yeah. By homicidal. Yeah.
00:39:41
Speaker
Go to bed, go to bed anyway. OK. All right. I talk for a living. Later, it did come out that she died of a gunshot wound to an abdomen to her abdomen. So there's question number one. Why if she was shot in the abdomen, they know she shot in the abdomen. Why did they state originally it was to homicidal violence? Was homicide, homicidal. You said homicidal.
00:40:09
Speaker
I'm putting the wrong and fastest on the wrong. Homicidal. So why did they say why did they initially the corner rule that her death was caused by homicidal violence if it was a gunshot wound?
00:40:24
Speaker
That's my question. Like, that's my I mean, homicide is that it's it's any form. But why not say gunshot? Was there more done to the body than they released? Well, you said that she had a tube socket around her throat. So I mean, maybe they just didn't know at the time. Like, I don't know. It's just my first big question there. So the reason the tube sock is tighter on the neck is was not really known. Because
00:40:51
Speaker
It's a tube sock. Like you've seen a tube sock, right? Like daddy socks. Oh, daddy socks. Right. So you can't get enough torque on those to really to really strangle somebody like it's not long enough. I mean, it's pretty stretchy. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, some of them get pretty, I mean, some of the ones around now, they're like, oh, dear, freaking five. Yeah, but this is the 80s. So this is like no tube socks are pretty long. That's true. Well, so.
00:41:18
Speaker
Shortly after these murders were discovered, specifically Cooper's body, they were publicized by crime stoppers in an attempt to get any information on people that were responsible. Was anybody in the area? Did anybody know anything? Did anybody see anything? It was all over the TV, all over the news, just trying to get any information, right? So around the same time, law enforcement thinks a murder could be connected to a couple from Kent, Washington.
00:41:49
Speaker
So this is the first like connection they find. I was just going to say, so they're, they're thinking more of a series of murders, not just a random attack on a couple. Yes. So it was in Kent, Washington, a couple named Edward Smith and Kimberly Lavon. This couple in March of 1985 were abducted, murdered and disposed of in a gravel pit near Columbia river.
00:42:13
Speaker
It was still a cold case at this point, and the murders had some similarities. Number one, couples from Washington, bodies being disposed of in wooded areas near a lake or river. Edward's body, Edward Smith's body was found on March 10th with his throat cut. However, at that time, they couldn't identify who he was. They had no idea. It was just a dead body that they had found.
00:42:38
Speaker
On March 23rd, the couple's car was found at an overlook, parked at an overlook off the Columbia River, where they had parked to go out to camp, walked into the forest, parked the car, went into the forest. The families eventually reported the couple missing, and that is when authorities realized that the body they had in the morgue was Edward Smith's, but they still didn't have Kimberly, just like the previous couple. Man's found first, damaged a neck, our head, neck area.
00:43:09
Speaker
In August, Kim's remains were finally found by complete chance when a passerby happened to see something mixed in the brush. And it was very near where Edward's body's been found. So right now we've got two couples from Washington, both on camping trips, both just in a relationship. They're not married, their boyfriend, girlfriend.
00:43:33
Speaker
Well, both of them were the male was slaughtered and the girl was taken or ran or something. The girl was found later. Yeah. But away from the actual original crime scene. Correct. Yeah. So the police were able to lift a fingerprint out of this couple's car and they were unable to get a match. It took them around four years and they and I think this is where I went wrong on my next case. But after four years, they were finally able to match this unknown fingerprint.
00:44:01
Speaker
to a man named Billy Ray Ballard, who was an inmate in Wyoming State. There's got to be some kind of clever explanation. The fact that you don't know your alphabet. So Washington State was able to extradite Billy Ray Ballard. He pled guilty to the murder of the couple from Washington.
00:44:25
Speaker
in order to avoid the death penalty and was sentenced to life in prison without parole. However, throughout this investigation, they did come to realize while he was guilty for murdering Edward Smithing, Kimberly Levine, he was innocent on the murders of Harkin and Cooper. So while they did solve a murder, they've wasted a lot of time and resources and lost a lot of time in this, this, this other couple that they originally started with, right?
00:44:52
Speaker
So at the time Steven died, he had been in a feud with a man, an unnamed man over damages to his Harley Davidson motorcycle. Apparently Steven Ruth had gone to a wedding and then the reception right before their camping trip. So they got off work Friday, got ready for a wedding, went to the wedding, went to the reception, peace out to go camping. And the man that Steven was feuding with showed up at the reception.
00:45:22
Speaker
So, um, he only showed up with the intention of confronting Steven. Like he did not know these people. He basically went around the reception asking if anyone and see Steven Harkins cause he's going to basically beat him down. Only reason he's there. Um, and while he was known to be a violent man looking for a fight, the police could never connect this unnamed man with the location of the murders. So while he was not officially cleared at this time,
00:45:50
Speaker
They couldn't find any evidence to connect him, so that is theory number two, dead in the water. So at this point, we've got two suspects, no arrests, no convictions, no clear evidence or tie-in, and the trail's cold.
The Mystery of Michael and Diana
00:46:06
Speaker
I mean, bottom line. About a month later, on December 12th, 1985, another incident occurs. 36-year-old Michael Reamer,
00:46:17
Speaker
And his girlfriend, Diana Robertson, who was 21, along with their two-year-old daughter, Crystal Louise Robertson, were traveling from their Tacoma, Washington home to Pierce County to find a Christmas tree near Nisqually River, which kudos to me because I think that's pretty dang close. Well done, dear. Well done. Yeah. So Mike Greenberg was a very tall man over six foot. He worked as an animal trapper, very familiar with the woods.
00:46:45
Speaker
plan to go like they were gonna go cut down a Christmas tree but he's also gonna check on some of his animal traps while he's out there. Fast forward to later that day. Don't know how much time passed from when they went out to the forest but two-year-old Crystal is found walking alone at a Kmart in a town called Spanaway. Oh!
00:47:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, I know. I know this. Oh, walking around in a town called Spanaway about 30 miles away from the destination where the family is supposed to be, which begs the question, how did the two year old end up 30 miles away from where she's supposed to be with her family? And was she alone? Yep.
00:47:26
Speaker
obviously she's dropped off. There's no two year old that's gonna be able to walk 30 miles in like two hours. I can't do that. But why would the murderer not just leave her in the woods? Why save her and drop her off? Like that's a big reoccurring question. Well, I mean, I would say it just kind of depends on the criminal mind at hand. Personally, like, you know, some people only victimize children, some of them only victimize adults. And if there's a kid involved, they're like,
00:47:52
Speaker
Well, let me get you out of here. You know, let me protect you. Let me keep you. You just don't know what's going on. But I'm not that big of a scumbag. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Like his own honor system. I suck, but not that bad. Not that bad. Yeah. So witnesses at the Kmart that day described the little girl as being dazed and very quiet. She wouldn't talk like much, if at all. But what she did end up saying was important. Authorities attempted to question this little girl.
00:48:20
Speaker
I mean, remember, she's two. So there's so barely, barely words. Yeah, like we're forming sentences at this point, but not not not a hundred percent coherent. Yeah. Yeah. So they're asking all the obvious question. Where's your mommy? Where's your daddy? What happened? And the only thing the little girl said is mommy was in the trees.
00:48:42
Speaker
That's it. Yeah. So the statement is speculated a lot, discussed a lot with everyone in the case. Everyone had a different perspective of what she could mean. Mommy was still in the forest, but kids are so literal, but still all of these four, four, four speculations are literal. Mommy's in the forest, which is where the trees are. Mommy's up in the tree.
00:49:04
Speaker
Mommy's hanging from the trees. Nobody knows for sure. Like the mom is in the trees. Like for me, though, kids are so literal. Yeah. At that age, you would think hanging. Yeah, I was hanging from the. That's where I was. Yeah. So Little Crystal was placed in a temporary foster care. And then around two days later, her grandmother, her maternal grandmother sees the little girl on the news.
00:49:29
Speaker
and immediately goes to get the child find out what's happening and took custody of the little girl like that's my granddaughter she's coming with me we're done so police are searching the area for Mike and Diana both on foot and by plane it's a forest there's a lot of area um but they're mainly focusing on trying to find a red 1982 pickup truck which is what the family drove because when you've got all this wooded area
00:49:55
Speaker
A person with clothes on and everything else is going to blend in a red pickup truck. You're going to spot something of that. So that's what they're looking for. I mean, obviously they're looking for the people too, but that's the big like, let's find that. Um, however, they're unable to find anything related to the couple, nothing left behind. Um, it isn't until February 18th, two months later that a motorist discovered Dinah Robertson's court half buried in a snow bank.
00:50:23
Speaker
off a logging road on Washington State Route 7. Mike's body is still not found. Even with 50 officers, volunteers and bloodhounds, there's no trace. The search just, it doesn't move forward because the snow continues to fall. So there's over six inches from the time they went missing to now that just keeps falling, hiding any and all traces or evidence. Like they can't get a beat on anything. Right.
00:50:50
Speaker
They were able to find Mike's red pickup truck eventually. It was pretty close to where Diana's body was found, half buried in that snow bank. And in the truck, they find a handwritten note on the dashboard. It's on like an envelope, and it says, I love you, Diana. That's it. That's all that's on the note. So here's another question. But with all that snowfall, where was the truck down? Very close to Diana's body. OK.
00:51:19
Speaker
So he had to have been driving that truck around. Mm hmm. Because any paper handwritten that gets wet. Yeah. It is not legible anymore. It was inside the truck. Oh gosh. OK. I thought you said, OK, I'm sorry. That was my bad. I might not say it was inside the truck. So there leaves the big question of who left this note and why. If it was Mike and he was with her, why would he have written a note and left it for? She's there.
00:51:45
Speaker
Also Mike's body's not been found. So is that his way of apologizing for murdering her and why he took his own daughter and dropped her off at the Kmart where she was safe? Um, a lot of speculation, like everybody went crazy over this, trying to figure it out. And there's just not a lot of evidence. Diana's mother came forward who had custody of their daughter, Crystal, and saw the envelope. And she said a hundred percent, that's Mike's handwriting.
00:52:11
Speaker
Um, while officials were not a hundred percent on board with that FBI is involved at this point and unsolved mysteries actually did a case, did a episode on this case. Okay. And you can see, um, like interviews with some of these people and the mom Diana's mother on the unsolved mystery said, I feel it was Mike's handwriting. I have cards he's given her on different occasions that match this. Exactly. Like she went.
00:52:39
Speaker
No question, 100% that is Mike's handwriting. However, FBI handwriting analysis just weren't able to make that. They just said that it's not that clear cut. They cannot say for any certainty that that is Mike's handwriting. That was Mike's own mother. No, that was Diana's mother. Oh, that was his, you know, his girlfriend's mom who's angry, grieving and wants answers. So they're not going to accept that. Yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
Um, so this, sorry, lost my spot. Okay. So this led to a lot of suspicion that the note was left, um, to throw off investigators and confuse authorities. Right. Like that's one camp. This is just a red herring. It is nothing. The other campus firmly Mike did it. Mike's responsible. That was his way of apologizing because they kept saying if they're together, why would he leave a note? If they're together, why would they leave a note? Well, devil's advocate to that.
00:53:40
Speaker
I have several handwritten notes in my car currently, all the way back to when I was dating Frankie every time he'd leave me a note on my car. And if it was something that like was really special or whatever, I stick at my glove.
00:53:53
Speaker
my glove box on a bad day, I look at it, fellas leaves me little notes sometimes, or she draws me pictures, they're my glove box. Yeah, it's keepsakes. And I'll even pick them up sometimes and put them on my, by my gear shifter, not my gear shifter, but my speedometer thingy, the thingy that tells me how fast I'm going in front of my face, whatever that's called. Yeah, that one thingy? Yeah, the thingy, the thingy was the number one line. Yeah. But I'll leave them there. So it could, it didn't, it doesn't have, it could be my handwriting, but it doesn't mean he wrote it then. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:54:25
Speaker
So there's that. The truck did have a little bit of other evidence in it. There were blood stains in the truck. So the autopsy on Diana's body showed that she was stabbed over 17 times, which is a little overkill. You're dead after the first few, I'm assuming. The amount of overkill usually indicates
00:54:52
Speaker
that the murderer knew their victim personally. And they're angry. And they're angry. Yeah. The other thing that was found was a tube sock tied around Diana's neck, just like Ruth Cooper. And after examining it, it showed that the knots and the way it was tied was identical, linking the two cases even closer.
00:55:16
Speaker
So you saw like, did he carry two tube socks or did he just have one left over? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I know that's not funny, but like, I don't know. I guess I don't understand the method or madness when it comes to the criminally insane. But yeah, but a tube sock. But that's my thing is he stabbed her 17 times. That's how she got the tube sock was just completely irrelevant. Just a signature base. Mm hmm. Same with with Ruth Cooper.
00:55:43
Speaker
So at this point, there's nothing to go on. Mike's body has still not been found. And he is suspect number one at this point, logically. It's always the spouse or the significant other. He's not around. So one of the first theories that came from the investigators is that Mike did kill Diana, then took his daughter, dropped her off at the Kmart,
00:56:12
Speaker
But that means he also killed the other couple because there's too many, and the tube sock, the way it was tied was distinctive and exactly the same. So you can't say he only killed his girlfriend and has no relation to that other murder. So on the flip side, the other theory that came about was an unknown serial killer that killed both couples, obviously. And they hid Mike's body, it just hadn't been found yet.
00:56:39
Speaker
Because what's not even just about like hiding the body, it's mother nature kind of taking its course. Yeah, like it doesn't take long before a body starts to decompose. Well, he tried to. And when you're outside, it doesn't take long before the insects and the animals go at it. They tried to hide that. He tried to hide Diana's body in a snowdrift or she was snowed upon.
00:57:04
Speaker
The other one of the bodies was hidden in brush. Like all the bodies, all the couples, at least one body has been missing and not found with the others until later. Right. So. And that's what I'm saying, too. Like when it comes to animals, like.
00:57:18
Speaker
you know, foxes, wolves, whatever, they'll grab it and go. Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, half of his corpse could be literally sitting in the mountain somewhere in a cave somewhere. Yeah. Just because they were hungry and they they took it. Yeah. You know, yeah. Mike's friends are 100 percent behind him and say, second theory, there's an unknown serial killer. This is serial killer time.
00:57:48
Speaker
and they continued to look through the forest just to prove Mike is innocent. So they went out to where the family started, where they knew Mike's traps were started, and they followed Mike's traps because he was going to check his traps. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that, I mean, she's two, the little girl, Crystal's two, that's a long way to walk. What Mike, over six foot Mike, can walk, check his traps,
00:58:17
Speaker
is like one step to her five. And as a mother, I don't want to do that. I don't want to carry her. I don't want to drag her through the woods. I don't know. We're going to stay here. We're going to play in the truck and around the truck. You go check your traps. Meet us back here. We'll cut down a tree. We'll head. Yeah. Right. Correct. So they could have split up. You don't know that they were together this whole time. And that's what his friends said. So they checked. They spent hours searching the path they knew Mike would be on for his traps. But they were unable to find anything related to Mike as well.
00:58:47
Speaker
Um, giving credit to Mike being the murder on the flip side, back to that camp. Um, the problem is it's well known around the area, friends and family, that Mike and Diana had an extremely turbulent relationship. Enough so, that during the time this trip started, Diana actually had a restraining order out against Mike. And you don't just get restraining orders, like you can't just, you know, poop poop.
00:59:15
Speaker
Um, the order of protection started. Okay. Yeah. I'm confused because they were together. How many people take out a restraining order against somebody and they're like, Hey, let's go camping. Exactly.
00:59:28
Speaker
Their relationship had high highs and low lows. Um, she got her trading order against him because he kicked her down the, he kicked down their apartment door. And it was stated that he took her face after pushing her or shoving her to the ground. He took her face and kept repeatedly shoving her face into the carpet, almost like you would rub a dog's nose and it's P.
00:59:51
Speaker
So he was like a really good guy. Yeah. Yeah. So however, it was also known that they reconciled very shortly before this trip. So she took out their straining order on him, but took him back. And this is not an uncommon situation in their relationship. Right. Friends of the couple, mainly Diana, said that Mike would often beat Diana often. He took out every single frustration on her. And then there were times that Mike would
01:00:20
Speaker
put his own fault on Diane and beat her for like he cheated on Diane and they weren't married. So it wasn't that he cheated on her. And then that night beat the crap out of her saying she caused him to cheat and that she was probably cheating too. So I'm going to go criminal mind theory on you real quick. Like what if Mike is in fact the serial killer and like practiced on the one couple to get it right? Yeah.
01:00:46
Speaker
could be could be. Her friends stated that Mike had threatened to kill her and he also told her when he said that he was going to kill her that he could get away with it. He was a woodsman. Nice killer in the woods. Nobody ever find her body. Nobody ever know. None of them understood why she repeatedly went back to him.
01:01:07
Speaker
Um, one of the girls that was interviewed in that episode, that was a friend of Diana said that she thinks that Diana kept going back to Mike for two reasons. Number one, because of their daughter, Crystal, right? Which is always the biggest thing for mom. And number two for security, monetary, you know, she's single mom in the early eighties. Can't be easy. So a lot of authorities still felt like Mike, um, was a good, like he was a good candidate, but he was not the main person.
01:01:35
Speaker
He was not like, yeah, on paper and like in theory, he was a suspect, but maybe not the prime suspect. But that's the most authorities really didn't think that he did it like they could see that he could, but he probably didn't. His body was more than likely in the forest and just undiscovered as the train was thickly wooded. It made searching hard. Animals were there whole nine, like we talked about. Right. So this is where the investigation left divided between Mike being behind it and Mike being a victim.
Discovery and Remaining Questions
01:02:04
Speaker
Crystal was raised by her grandmother, Diana's mother, who believed Mike was the one that killed her daughter. So can you imagine starting at two, barely remembering your family? Like she doesn't remember her mom and dad that well, she's two. Yeah. And that's like, can you like, I am sure that now they're people that can be judicial, but that's a mother grieving the death of her daughter, right? That is on like,
01:02:29
Speaker
It has not been prosecuted. No one has been made to be unhinged, unhinged. So can you imagine the comments this little girl made when you don't know for sure Mike did it? Yeah. You know, she had to hear things. You know that she grew up like out of spite. Yeah. Just say like, yeah, like grievance. Yeah, grieving. So, you know, I mean, if she knew anything about Mike's past, it would be out of spite. But I mean, I just by the time this little girl is an adult in her mind, there was probably not a single doubt that her dad killed her mom.
01:02:59
Speaker
You know? Yeah. So 26 years later, what? Twenty six. Twenty six. In August 2011, hikers in the woods. This is where I remember the story. Hikers in the woods discovered a pair of boots and a partial skull, which was finally determined to be my creamers. The remains were found about a mile from where Diana's body was found. Right.
01:03:22
Speaker
which astounds me because so many people were out there looking, including his friends, like on the ground for hours searching. And it's like a mile over and no one saw it. But again, it could have been dug out from a cave somewhere. Do you know what I mean? Like there's just no. So not even just that, but just normal. Um.
01:03:46
Speaker
That's what I'm looking for. All right. So normal events. Yeah. When it comes to Mother Nature. Yeah. Right. They they could have buried them a little bit. They could have anything. And then the rain, the snow and things melt and things move. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? Like literally twenty eight. Yeah. And twenty six years. Little two year old crystals now twenty eight. Yeah. Give give give time a little bit of an erosion effect. And yeah. But the problem is.
01:04:15
Speaker
Because the remains have been out there for 26 years and there's just a partial skull, there's no way to determine how Mike died. None. They could only roll out gunshot to the head because his skull didn't have a bullet. And that's it.
DNA Evidence and Theories
01:04:33
Speaker
So here's the theories again. Was Mike shot by the killer in the body?
01:04:38
Speaker
was Mike. Did he leave the notice kind of a suicide note? Because I was going to ask about that earlier. Yeah. Like most people that are going to leave a note like that. I'm sorry. Blah, blah, blah. And then I love you, Diana. Like that's it. No, I'm sorry. I thought you said it. OK. You said I love you, Diana. That's it. So was Mike killed a different way by the killer and his body was left out there? Was Mike actually the killer? And he lived in the woods till he died of natural causes.
01:05:09
Speaker
are buys an animal or an injury out in the woods because he's living off the grid. Did Mike actually kill her and kill himself? That's kind of what I always come back and see his dead girlfriend's body. His two year old's gone and kill himself after he was checking traps because he felt guilty because he left them alone. However, if he did kill himself, why is a weapon never been found? That was one of the questions. And I thought that's stupid. It's 26 years. You don't even have the whole body. You just have half a skull. What do you mean? Why is it the weapon found?
01:05:39
Speaker
Who knows where the weapon is? And I don't think any reasonable human. Would find the body of his wife and and know that his child is missing. A reasonable human reasonable. And you're like logical when you're great. I mean, you see your your your. Your mangle, mutilated.
01:06:00
Speaker
loved one's body like it's not I don't know maybe it's a mom thing yeah maybe I would just say where the hell is my kid yeah yeah and immediately call 911 hey here's what's going on I think it's very sus yeah and I do think that they have some information that they don't release at this point because like they say because no weapon was found nearby they discounted the fact that he killed himself
01:06:24
Speaker
His body was in the woods for 26 years. You only have a skull, not the whole body. So why would you think you'd find a gun like laying there or a knife just laying there? Like that makes no sense to me. Yeah, that's not logical. Well, I mean, those those types of things are not, you know, exactly. They're not going to erode, though. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like there would have been some kind of evidence.
01:06:44
Speaker
But we're OK, fine. Nearby, nearby, at least. If he was going to blast himself or of his body, then it's almost he just friggin hung himself again in faith. You're looking at you're in the open wooded area. I know he's got traps set out. That's why I'm saying for a half a second to know the weapons going to be right there. Like, that's not a lot. No, you could have been carried from anywhere. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. OK, I'm sorry. I thought you were saying like, you know, the weapon should be. No, that's what they're saying. They ruled out suicide because there was no weapon.
01:07:14
Speaker
How can you rule anything out 26 years later when you don't have that? Yeah, you can't rule anything out with that. Yeah, when it when it comes to animals. Why? Yeah, that's it. You can't do it. No. No. Anyway, you probably do a test on the bones and see what day he died or what year he died. But that's really it. Yeah. So honestly, finding his body just led to more questions than previously thrown around. It didn't help at all.
01:07:39
Speaker
Most people, once his body was found, did say, you know, obviously he wasn't the killer, which again, I say, how can you say that? Because he very well could have lived off the grid. Yeah. He could have a little cabin built somewhere. You don't know. No, he literally. And like I said, like I was trying to say earlier, like he left the note. Most people that are going to leave a note like that are going to commit the crime and then kill themselves. So there's there's one more little piece of this story I haven't told you yet.
01:08:08
Speaker
Naturally. There was foreign DNA found at both of these crime scenes, both the tube sock crimes. Oh, there you go. So throughout the years, this DNA evidence, as DNA evidence has advanced, they've tested this unknown sample of DNA and they've not been able to find a positive or familial match in the system. Right. They don't know.
01:08:31
Speaker
So by all that means is nobody in that family or that person has ever been arrested. That's it. Yeah. Mike's truck beside Mike's truck, a rifle shell was found. However, it was never linked to Mike and Diana. Number one, where they were at is a very big hunting destination, if you couldn't guess by the fact he was setting traps. Right. So that was kind of discarded. It was probably a local hunter that just dropped the shell as a spent shell.
01:09:01
Speaker
Diana wasn't killed by a gunshot, so that was never really anyone that doesn't know. Hunting spent shell means it's been fired. Correct. So there are a lot of theories about this case going around. This could have been a more sophisticated serial killer that has not been linked yet. The killer would have to have been able to kill. They say sophisticated because you got it. They were killing couples. So you got two people. You got to get.
01:09:30
Speaker
You gotta put one, you stay here, stay, and I'm gonna go kill your loved one, then I'm gonna come back here. How does one person, that's well planned. You have to plan that out, you have to time it out, you have to scope it out. It's not something that you can just, look, here they are, bam, bam, you know what I mean? And at least one of the victims, Mike Reamer, was a very competent huntsman.
01:09:53
Speaker
and was likely to have at least a gun, if not more protection on him. So the serial killer, what are the killer would have had to overcome him because Mike's friends on that. That's not that's not 100% true. But he could have just sniped him out of the woods. He could have. But Mike's friends said 100%. He never went anywhere without a gun. He was a very good hunt. That's not what I mean. I know what you mean. He could have been a tree stand. He could have. But as a hunter,
01:10:22
Speaker
You know, to listen for like any little thing. You know what I mean? That's true. But if you're sitting in a tree stand. And you're not looking up at a tree stand. Yeah. The guy could have just taken him out at that point. Like, I mean, you know, I'm I can't. OK, I'm not saying that you're not. Theology there is not based on anything. Correct. What I'm saying is there are ways there are ways. 100 percent. So it couldn't even just be that like he could have used a bow, which is completely silent. Right.
01:10:52
Speaker
and we don't have the body to know how he died. Exactly. So at this point, the tube sock killer, as he was named. Nice. They're the connection is too strong between the original story, the original victims and this new victim to be able to tell like it's obviously the same killer, but that's literally all they've got. Yeah. So they went on to try to find here the suspect. So we've already hit two suspects that have been no earlier in the story.
01:11:21
Speaker
Mike's still in the running, but we don't know.
Joseph Burgess and Historical Connections
01:11:25
Speaker
Joseph Burgess, he is an American man who moved to Canada in 1968, possibly moved there to avoid the draft. He was a suspect in a 1972 murder that involved a couple in Vancouver. All right, I'm confused. I thought you said he moved to Canada. Yeah, Vancouver, Canada.
01:11:50
Speaker
There's a Vancouver up there. This is Joseph Burgess. No, but when did he move? 1972. OK, I'm sorry. I thought you said 60 something. No, no, sorry. He was an American man who in 1968, he moved. OK. He moved to Canada in 1968 to avoid the draft. He was the main suspect, though, in a murder that occurred in 1972 in 10 years before in Vancouver. OK. And let me tell you about that one. So this is a couple.
01:12:18
Speaker
Um, a young couple not married who were shot in the head by a 22 caliber gun. And that was the first couple. Exactly. Right. That same gun as the first couple, um, while they were sleeping in a campout. By the time the body says, why I never want to go camping. Hashtag stay inside, stay alive. Um, so he killed them while they were camping.
01:12:45
Speaker
And while they're sleeping, by the time the bodies were found, Joseph was gone. And he was named a fugitive. To add a little bit of strength to the theory of Joseph being the murderer for all these couples, he was vocal, very outspoken to anybody that would listen about the unwed couple from Vancouver sleeping together.
01:13:10
Speaker
um he they were they were they were sinners they were dirty sinners and they were gonna burn in hell fire i'm sure so another correlation between them is the 22 caliber gun that the couple in vancouver was shot just like the first couple we talked about stephen and ruth also this couple that was killed in vancouver's dog was shot and killed as well again just like the other couple
01:13:35
Speaker
Um, so a lot of similarities, a lot of patterns connecting these three murders, but Joseph is in the wind. Um, 2019, I'm sorry, 2009, not 19, 2009 in New Mexico, authorities set up a sting to catch the cookie
The Cookie Bandit and Murder Links
01:13:53
Speaker
bandit. That was his name.
01:14:18
Speaker
The cookie bandit had been stealing from multiple cabins around this area and they were sick of it
01:14:23
Speaker
Oh, I like your hand stuck in the cookie jar. So they, the sheriff and the deputies decided to set out the stake out these cabins and try to figure out where this cookie bandit was.
01:14:38
Speaker
So a man broke into one of the cabins that the deputies were set up in, didn't know that, obviously he was just going to steal. And a shootout took place between the deputies and the cookie bandit. The cookie bandit and one deputy were left dead at the end of this shootout. When they took fingerprints from the cookie bandit, it was then that they discovered that was Joseph Burgess.
01:15:02
Speaker
So you ask why I told you all that. I tell you all that because it was, um, while there's crossovers in the story, there's nothing actual to tie him to the murders discussed before. But in 1972 is when he fled Vancouver, making his way to New Mexico through the United States. So he very well could have been in Washington when the other two murders happened. The two Tacoma murders. Um, he very well could have been there.
01:15:32
Speaker
um let's see um it was also known that Joseph was a survivalist so he would have more likely been traveling through forested areas to try to stay off the grid try not to get caught because he was a fugitive um and he came across two other unwed couples sleeping together and how do you know that there's no rings i guess an assumption that's like the dumbest thing it is a very huge leap but that is a one of the suspects
01:16:02
Speaker
Another murder that could be connected to the tube sock killings occurred in Oak Ridge, Oregon in 2005. A couple is murdered at a campsite with their dog also being shot. What's the dog gonna tell on you for? I mean, let the dog go wild. Sorry. I mean, I don't have an animal, so eh, but why kill the dog every time? Is my point. This is the third animal.
01:16:32
Speaker
So while there's no tube sock in this 2005 murder, there's several years separating the murders. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that the killer went unnoticed or dormant or the victim's bodies were never found because he goes into forests and kills these people and hides their bodies. So the other thing that linked this one is the location in Oregon was right on the border of Washington State. So it's why this one got linked.
01:17:02
Speaker
Um, again, in 2006, right between the murdered campsite, so like right between where the two campsites were, the original two, the two sock murders, a mother and daughter were camping and they were murdered with the mother being shot in the head and the daughter being stabbed multiple times. How old was the daughter? Just out of curiosity. Do we know? Didn't say. No, I'm sorry. I would find it odd that he would take the two year old
01:17:32
Speaker
in one situation and then this is probably an murder. I would assume that's kind of what I was thinking. But this is OK. I probably should have told you like all the age of innocence kind of deal. This this the tube shot killer has never been identified
Speculations on Killer's Identity and Fate
01:17:46
Speaker
or caught. Right. So these are these are current theory on could they be connected? Could it be the same murder? So are we talking current like?
01:17:56
Speaker
2022. This is still things bandied about the 2006 murder, the mother and daughter in the campsite in Oregon are, I'm not sure where they were. They were near the Washington area. They, their murders never been caught could be associated. The 2005 couple murders that their dog was shot a minute ago. No clue who, who did that.
01:18:17
Speaker
Still not. They're all so similar. It's kind of like weird. Yeah, that's that's the point. But here's the thing, though, like I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, all right, so we've been in 85, which would put somebody around my age 30 something. Early 30, early 30s. Right. Right. Then you were talking 70s.
01:18:36
Speaker
When that one guy was born, Joseph Burgess, correct. So I'm just kind of sitting here thinking, like, all right, my dad, my mom born in the fifties at one point, they're getting up there in age. When did this guy actually start? And that's the question are. Were the other question the 85 murders?
01:18:58
Speaker
Could that have been the beginning of his career? That's that's true. But I don't see somebody like, you know, in 85, I was just born. Right. OK. Again, in my 30s. Right. You you would have to be either an incredible hunter. Yeah. Right. Like I'm talking early years in your teens. Right. Hunting people. Mm hmm.
01:19:27
Speaker
because you have to be old enough to pull the trigger. Yeah. Right. But they're. And now now we're in in 2000s. Right. They're all up in age. Yeah. So even if we're not saying 85, like let's go some years back and say they're in their 50s. Yeah. Or could it be someone that someone that is a well known killer who took the easy way out and killed himself before he admitted to everything. But he's from the Washington area.
01:19:55
Speaker
Oh, and he had kill kids set up all over the United States. Oh, my God. Are you really going to go there? It's a big favorite because he lived. He started in Washington. It killed kids everywhere. Was that ever proven, though? He was in Canada, but they know who killed the couple in Canada. That was Joseph Burgess.
01:20:17
Speaker
That's why he's liked for these two. He's, he's, he's a, like, people like him for it, but they can't prove it. He's dead. Right. They can't prove it. He can't admit to anything. There was nothing tying him because he lived off the grid. And Israel himself was not, not very open to, no, he killed himself before he could admit to anything. Now that being said, most of Israel's murders that are known about her early nineties,
01:20:46
Speaker
Yeah, but early 90s still getting real close to the. He would have had to been like, I don't remember the age they said it, but he would have had to been like. Early, early teens like 9, 10, 11, if this was him, but he was known to have killed four people in Washington state. Well, here's the deal, though, but you don't know 9, 10, 11 again. You were talking earlier about somebody that could overpower somebody, right?
01:21:16
Speaker
And I was sitting here talking about somebody who would snipe somebody. But you're not thinking about saying I'm scared. I can't find my mom. Ma'am, can you help me find my parents? You. Uh huh. I do. That's that's the only way a child I feel I could get away with it. I've lost. I can't find my parents. And so the couple says, I'll go this way. You go that way. Let's find the kid's parents. That's a lot of speculation. It's 100 percent speculation because you don't know. Like to this day, we don't know who the tube stock killer is.
01:21:49
Speaker
People are more than likely he was arrested for some BS crime more than likely.
Natural Elements as Evidence Obscurers
01:21:54
Speaker
And, you know, I've got some I've got some killers on the docket that I want to talk about that they did one like horrific multi person killing and never killed again and got caught like 50 years later to live a great life by the law, like never broke another like not even a speeding ticket. Yeah. So it could have been someone that it those two have to be related because of the tube saw.
01:22:18
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that like the guy just, you know, are they were both both the tube stock killers were from Tacoma, Washington. But again, here you are. You're sitting here and we're talking about the woods. Yeah. You know, he may have gotten his comeuppance could have been taken out by a wild animal. Yeah, I just I don't know. There's a lot of the main question, two main questions in the case is who murdered the couples and
01:22:44
Speaker
Why the tube sock? Well, I always I always like to go just to the. You know, the wild side of things. Mm hmm. Because I don't want to admit to the fact that he could very well still be out there. He could be. And the tube socks could have just been those two because he had them and he.
01:23:08
Speaker
like it was it was there so let's put a little thing and he changed his mo like the tube talk don't have to just because they don't work right and when people talk about mo like i mean how many people that we know of in in the criminal database who started one way and ended another yeah you know what i mean like it's kind of you know everybody's watching tube socks with you yeah i mean how many because dalmer is like the new like fad or whatever to watch but
01:23:38
Speaker
You know, he went from breaking bones apart, like boiling them to and then to acid. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like people change. Yeah. So that's what I mean. Logically, you just can't carry extra socks around with you without being like, oh, hey, look, I have a clean tube sock. You're in the woods and you have a pack of tube socks. Mind explain. Yeah. So I don't think the fact that there was never any other tube socks hide.
01:24:03
Speaker
means that he never killed anyone else. And I don't think that just because you didn't find someone with tube socks tied around their neck doesn't mean there was before they decomposed. Right. Like, because you don't you don't kill two couples that brutally unless it is personal. And again, we're sitting here talking about a situation of the bodies not being found for weeks or months. Yeah.
01:24:28
Speaker
you know mother nature takes its course whether you want to believe it or not guys like first of all decomposing decomposing in a nutshell starts within the first 24 yeah okay not only that you got wild animals yeah wild animals whether it's insects or whatever when they smell rotting flesh yeah they're like free meal yeah
01:24:51
Speaker
OK, like coyotes, foxes, bears, they're all omnivores, wolves. Same deal. Easy meal. Yeah. So no matter what state you live in in the United States, you have one of the above. Yeah. Like it's going down. Hashtag stay inside, stay alive. Yeah. Well. We're sitting outside right now, Faith. Yeah, but I'm still like I'm by the door.
01:25:16
Speaker
I mean, I could be inside in a hospital. Faith would be one of those like I'm going to grab some authority back out here and no person. Undo trash bag. So. I don't I don't have like none of the just gut. I don't think any of the theories. Are. Like, I don't think they like none of the theories ring true enough to me. Does that make sense? Yeah, like.
01:25:46
Speaker
The only one that I could possibly see, the only one that slightly makes sense to me, but it's, it'd be like far fetched is if my creamer who was, was an abusive boyfriend and he was a hunter and a woodsman and he, he, you know, he was outside a lot. They're from, he's from the same Tacoma, Washington area. This other couple was, if he was out there, he saw them and he was already mad about something.
01:26:16
Speaker
And he took out his anger and frustration on them. And then Diana got restraining order against them, trying to take away his little girl. Yeah, you're talking about like a trigger. Yeah. And so he plays nice. He gets her to take him back and he takes them out in the woods to, quote unquote, find a tree kills. Diana goes and brings little crystal because he can't care for a two year old and live off the grid and dropped her off. Hey, Martin, he lived in the woods until he died of whatever.
01:26:46
Speaker
Like that is that makes the most sense to me, unfortunately. Well, but I still say that would be true, but like it's still not how old would he have been at that point? It's like 27, I think he was 27 and he was found in what year? 2000. But I'm looking, I don't remember off the top of my head. It was 2011 is when his body was found 26 years later. And let's see, he was.
01:27:16
Speaker
Um, he was 36 when they took off. So 26 years later, make them over 50, 52, but living out off the grid where you're having a hunt. Yeah, I don't know, dude. That's still, that's, that's a lot of speculation. It is a lot. I'm just saying out of all the speculation, all the theories,
01:27:35
Speaker
That's the only one I think that's possible, but I still think it's a very long shot. I would really find it more plausible in that case, particularly that if he was the abusive man that everyone says that he was, he snapped, he killed his wife, he killed himself and he was drugged from the spot that he killed himself. That that take a little more to Kmart before he killed himself. Yes. I don't know. I just don't see.
01:28:03
Speaker
I don't see him killing himself because he told her I could kill you and get away with it. Like, nobody would ever find you. But see, I don't see him just dropping the girl off to go living a secluded life. That's why I say like, there's like there's like, yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, most of the people that live off grid, their families. Have lived off grid for generations. OK, it's passed down knowledge. It's our necessity. Yeah.
01:28:30
Speaker
And I don't know. I don't like him for it. I'm just saying out of everything that they said, this is probably like out of everything that makes the most sense to me. But I think it is probably someone else that hasn't that either changed his M.O. or got caught for a petty crime and just wasn't. Are someone who even killed themselves? You don't even know longer. Like you don't. Obviously, he was never caught for a heavy crime because his DNA is not in the system. Right.
01:29:00
Speaker
So. That's it, that's my that's my Washington. Thanks. The tube shot killer. Thanks. Unknown. I think this is the first week in like the last two or three weeks where we haven't been some kind of like same. Yeah, same. These same days. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. So anyway, it was just a little I had a hard time picking on Washington. I changed stories like five times. I don't know, man, I saw my story and was like, what, what, what?
01:29:30
Speaker
that what what why why and i feel like all my stories in that way just why stories do yeah most of both of our stories end up why like is there really a purpose to this or could we not have maybe thought outside the box anything you know any any anything anything
01:29:47
Speaker
So anyway, yeah, there is Washington and West Virginia. Oh, I was waiting for another moment to use the dah dah dah dah, but you never really gave any kind of real info. I wanted to go there, but I could there was never that's the thing. I know it was all a question. It was stupid. It was all I hate you. Yeah, every all the evidence was washed away. Yeah, you're lost to the elements. Yep.
01:30:16
Speaker
Well, I hope you guys enjoyed it. We've got two states left and we are getting the heck out of Dodge and going abroad. At least I will. Oh, yes. Oh, super abroad somewhere. California. No, I don't know. Basically another country. I don't know. All I know is I'm the one that screwed into doing the next podcast. So I'm going to go somewhere wherever. I don't even care. Warm because it's so fracking cold outside. Well, stupid.
01:30:41
Speaker
So anyway, you know, it's like 70 and we're like I'm freezing whining. Like freezing. I know. All right. I've got several pictures I'm going to post on Facebook and Instagram for the stories, the pictures, people.
01:30:59
Speaker
Mainly from Lisa's story. Yeah. Faith and I are literally like really starting to consider doing a park has not we. It's not a park. I don't know how to do this. What is it called? I don't know what the country on. She is knit.
01:31:16
Speaker
If you want to listen to our stupidity more, I have a really good one that I'm kind of thinking about. I'm going to run up by faith after this. But if you guys are like listening, just start following us on some kind of social media so we know we're not wasting our time. Hey, we've had some we've had some Instagram pick up for new people, which is totally cool. That's fine. I'm just saying, like, you know, all the people that listen when we see like, you know,
01:31:44
Speaker
you know, 100 and something people for this episode, whatever, whatever. Just go follow us. All right. Because we've got some really we were both weird and warped. Yeah. So you can only imagine if we were going to hide something in and pull back something special. Yeah. It's going to be really friggin special and very unedited. Like more, more than likely flags are going to fly by. Mostly, she's probably going to kick me in the legs a lot.
01:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, it is what it is smacking in the friggin face So anyways, if you guys want us to do a patreon reach out and let us know because I have a solid idea Now that this Jeffrey Dahmer movie came out like I've got a really solid Solid one that I'd love to do but we have some fun things for the we do We have a lot of fun things and I will I will add them because more morbid
01:32:39
Speaker
podcast calls them this because they're Patreons. Yeah, they call them Patronuses. And it reminds me of Harry Potter. So that's what they shall be called from this point on. Anyway, they won't, though, because I could care less. I love Harry Potter. I mean, it was it was OK. Maybe you'll remember it if it's Patreon, Patronuses and not Park at, which is like literally just a different. Yeah, I know. Like, yeah.
01:33:04
Speaker
Anyway, sometimes all the brain cells don't fire at the same time, you know, got to ones lost the other was chasing.
01:33:12
Speaker
Dad joke. I love dad jokes. Oh, OK. Let's just end this before I get angry. Have a great fantastic week and we will talk to you. I will be coming at you from Wisconsin. And Lisa's got the very crap shoot of Wyoming. Say to Wyoming. All right. So let's just say y'all keep it true. Crime. Follow us and stay inside. Stay alive. Stay inside. Stay alive.
01:33:42
Speaker
Bye. Bye.