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Life After Infant Loss: Surviving IVF’s Hardest Outcome
2 Playsin 2 days
After years of infertility, failed treatments, and finally choosing egg donation, Jody and Jennifer carried the joy of pregnancy—only to face the unimaginable loss of their babies.
In this deeply honest conversation, they share what it was like to move through shock, grief, and feelings of shame, and how faith, community, and small moments of gratitude carried them forward.
You’ll hear Jody’s story of walking through a decade of fertility treatments, ultimately turning to egg donation, and then facing complications late in pregnancy. You’ll hear Jenn’s story of countless IVF attempts, the decision to pursue egg donation, the joy of her Mother’s Day positive test, and the heartbreak of losing her daughter after open-heart surgery.
Together, they reveal how they’ve learned to hold grief and hope side by side—and how they continue to honor Brooklyn and Mateo while moving forward with courage.
This episode is tender, raw, and full of truth. And while it does include stories of infant loss, it’s also filled with reminders that even in the darkest seasons, light and hope are still possible.
Trigger warning: This episode contains sensitive discussions around infertility, egg donation, pregnancy complications, and infant loss. Please listen with care.
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Transcript
Introduction and Trigger Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
Before we begin, gentle note. This episode includes stories of pregnancy complications and infant loss. If that's something tender for you right now, please know you're not alone.
00:00:11
Speaker
And it's okay to listen when you feel ready.
Experiences of Infertility and Loss
00:00:14
Speaker
its You're like in shock, you know? You're just like, like, what the heck just happened? Yeah. um So it you just, you're like in in, not in denial, but you're just like, did that just happen? Like did that?
00:00:30
Speaker
like it feels like it's like you're like it's like an out-of-body experience. hu That's Jodi and alongside her is Jen. Both women endured years of infertility, finally saw their long-awaited pregnancies and then faced the unthinkable, losing their babies.
Finding Strength Through Faith and Relationships
00:00:48
Speaker
The only title I've ever wanted was mom and I know I have that title but I don't have a baby in my arms to show it. You know, um ah have scars in my heart and in my stomach and in my body and In this conversation, they open up about the pain of infant loss and the strength they found to keep going.
00:01:07
Speaker
So God just like showed up when I needed him most. My faith and my husband's faith and just us staying super close together i accepted the fact that like I had to like wait this long. I accepted the fact that I had to use donor eggs. I accepted the fact she was gonna have a heart condition like and then like she's gone. And like the more that I've gone through this is is is truly I feel like the reason um you know to know that like there is hope and that grief joy and and hope can coexist.
00:01:41
Speaker
So whether you're walking through loss, supporting someone who is, or simply searching for light in the darkest season, you'll find comfort and courage here.
Journey to Donor Eggs: Research and Acceptance
00:01:51
Speaker
Let's dive in.
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, Jodi and Jen, thank you guys so much for being here. I am just so grateful that you guys are gonna share your story with us today. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us.
00:02:02
Speaker
No, of course. Okay. So just to start out, can each of you share just a little bit about your journey? Just what led you to using donor eggs as a way that you were going to grow your family?
00:02:21
Speaker
Um, I mean, we started our journey, I was 33. So I found I had low ovarian reserve at 33. So we did like five IUIs. We did one egg retrieval, we got like three embryos, but they were all abnormal. um So you know, you took I took breaks in between all these fertility treatments. And then I think my doctor mentioned it like,
00:02:44
Speaker
when our three embryos were abnormal, like, oh, we'll come back and we'll do donor eggs. And I'm like, donor eggs, like, Like I'm not like never say never. Right. Yeah. um Like some years went by and then I was like, you know what? Let me look into that. Like, I wonder if you can see pictures of the donors. And so i was kind of curious. I was looking into it and then i have a psychology background. So I was like, let me see how donor can see children feel about that. So then I was researching that and I kind of like,
00:03:19
Speaker
Like that wasn't a good idea because what I was finding was that donor conceived children were upset. But I think it's because I was finding donor conceived children who were not told until later in their life.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah. So I realized that if you tell them when they're younger, it's a way better outcome for them. Early and often.
Influence of Victoria Nino's Story
00:03:41
Speaker
Yes. And then I found Victoria Nino's Fertility Unfiltered and I took one of her series.
00:03:49
Speaker
on donor conception. And that really helped me in my process. Yeah. ah That's amazing that you were looking at the, the whole child, the whole person just so early on, because I think a lot of, i know a lot of parents that I talk to, it really is that process of you kind of get,
00:04:13
Speaker
In that, you know, kind of just tunnel of like, but I'm trying to have a baby. The goal is to have a baby. And we're just thinking about how are we going to get that positive pregnancy test? And you're, that's amazing that you were looking beyond like, okay, if I do take this route, what does that mean for said person?
00:04:31
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how I kind of got into the whole donor egg idea and then moving forward
Jen's Personal Journey to New York and New Beginnings
00:04:42
Speaker
with that.
00:04:42
Speaker
I just loved Victoria Nino's story on Instagram and like how she described her bond with her daughter Flo. And I was like, you know what? Let's let's let's do that.
00:04:54
Speaker
Let's try that. And my husband was on board and so that's how I moved forward with that.
Exploring Fertility Treatments with Hope
00:04:58
Speaker
That's beautiful. What about you, Jen? So actually with me, I was married many, many, many years ago um previously. And I had, um i so towards the end of our marriage, um I was trying to get pregnant. Nothing was working.
00:05:16
Speaker
And I realized um we did several IUIs. Nothing happened. We wind up getting divorced at 35. i I thought that was the hardest thing in my life I had to go through at that time.
00:05:28
Speaker
So I packed up my bags and moved to New York City thinking I was like, I want to move to the hardest city in the world and make it. I wound up meeting my husband and um who's amazing and he's great. And but from the second I met him, I'm like, I want kids.
00:05:42
Speaker
was I knew my biological clock was ticking. And I remember when I was going to the fertility doctor before when I was married, um I remember them saying, oh, you have a ton of eggs. Are you ready get pregnant? Every time I did the IUI and nothing ever happened.
The Joyful Moment of Positive Tests
00:05:56
Speaker
um And then when I started dating my husband and I started, we went to and NYU to start going to fertility clinics just to like get things checked. um i My egg count was like two or three, like each session we actually started like right away.
00:06:11
Speaker
um And when I was in NYU, we did, I can't even tell you how many starting um IVF cycles. And the thing is with and NYU, they wouldn't retrieve unless you had more than three eggs. And I was not producing more than that.
00:06:26
Speaker
So, and also too, I just felt like a number there. So then I transferred, I found this other fertility clinic and we went there and I felt like they knew my name. They knew, like they wanted to know like more about me. And we'd again tried,
00:06:41
Speaker
countless PRP treatments, fibroid removals, IVF cycles, even with the three eggs that I was producing, nothing would make it past PGS testing. um And all I wanted was a baby. And mind you, at this I was 41 at this time.
00:06:56
Speaker
So I was just like, I... I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm like, i have such a desire to have like children. And they were, my doctor was still willing to go through more IVF cycles. He's like, it only just takes one, but my body wasn't like,
00:07:12
Speaker
I was just like, I don't know how many more rounds I can do this with like disappointment after disappointment. So um I actually
Navigating Pregnancy Complications with Hope
00:07:19
Speaker
looked into donor eggs and spoke to him about it. And I'm like, why didn't you tell me about this before i searched?
00:07:26
Speaker
I was like, we could have stopped at like stopped half of this like already. But you know I think every everything has a reason and and why it happened the way it did. and I searched up donor. I was like, and I didn't do as much research as Jodi in the sense of like, how would a child feel? I was just like, so I guess selfish in the sense of like, I just want a baby. I'm like, and my husband, um he wasn't, he had two kids previously. And at that time they were four and five.
00:07:54
Speaker
And he, um he was just like, I, he didn't want to adopt because he knew like the struggle of the kids, even, you know, He was like, I would rather just have one parent, like one of us, at least biologically attached, you know, to the child.
00:08:08
Speaker
He I was open to adoption, but he just didn't want to. And I honestly I wanted to carry so bad and I wanted to know what it felt like to see a positive, like positive sign. I wanted to know what it felt like to feel a baby kick.
00:08:20
Speaker
I wanted all those feelings. So i was actually very
Facing a Baby's Heart Condition
00:08:22
Speaker
excited that he was on board for the donor eggs. I tried to take Victoria's class, but every time work kind of just got in the way and I wasn't able to, I did like the first two sessions, but I dove deep into um just all of her posts and i was I was fully on board. I'm like, I can do this.
00:08:39
Speaker
I'm like, there's epigenetics. Like she's gonna have so much character of mine. you know, I was very excited to see like what would, you know, transpire with this. And I thought it was an opportunity given eggs.
00:08:51
Speaker
um my eggs Yeah. So spoiler alert, you guys, you know, both did at one point see that positive pregnancy test. What was that feeling after just all of the ups and downs and the rollercoaster? What was that moment like after everything you had been through?
00:09:15
Speaker
For me, I was just like, thank God the first transfer worked because I was like, already 10 years in with like fertility drugs and all the things.
00:09:25
Speaker
And I was like, we still had more embryos like if that transfer wasn't successful. But I was like, thank God.
00:09:34
Speaker
And I was like, and my body can do this. but I just needed a good egg. yeah And so i was like, OK, thank God it it accepted the embryo and it implanted. So i was just like excited to start.
00:09:49
Speaker
Like that it was beginning. That didn't have to like start again from the very, you know, ground zero. Yeah. Did you let yourself really believe that it was happening or was it sort of like a hesitation?
00:10:04
Speaker
i was like, no, this is happening. This is super. It was instant. Yeah. Yeah. a Oh, I love that. What about you, Jen? So I actually, my first transfer didn't work, and but my second transfer worked.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I remember, I'll never forget this moment. It was actually Mother's Day of last year. um it was, I had my transfer that Monday and that Sunday was Mother's Day. And I just prayed to God. I was like, God, if you can do anything. I had no symptoms. I didn't feel anything. Like, I was fine. i was like, this is not, in my head, like,
00:10:39
Speaker
I just didn't feel pregnant and I didn't think it was going to work because it just never has worked for me. But I was like, God, if you can do anything, can you just let me see a plan? And I remember waking up at three in the morning. i had one test left in my house and i took it not thinking I was going to see it.
00:10:54
Speaker
And when I flipped it over and I saw it pregnant, I was like, I was shaking. i was like, oh my God. I'm like, I woke up my husband at like three zero in the morning. like, babe, I'm like, oh my I'm like, you're going to be a dad. He's like, I'm already a dad. I'm like, no, no, no, no.
00:11:07
Speaker
You're going to a again. I was like, I'm pregnant. I was like, I could not believe I was pregnant. And he was like, he was like, what time is it? I'm like, it's like three. so one time is it like He's like, I love you. I'm so happy, but just to wake me up at six. I can't. i'm like, well, I can't go to sleep because I've never seen this in my entire life. I'm like, I want to go by like five more tests just to make sure.
00:11:28
Speaker
And literally, it was very, very hard for me to believe like anytime. I mean, this is TMI, but like anytime I went to like the bathroom, I would take another pregnancy test. And he's like, you're not going to lose the baby by going to the bathroom.
00:11:39
Speaker
But I was just like, it just was such a surreal thing for me, you know, because it's just I had never in like the 15 years of trying had I ever seen a positive pregnancy test. And I was just like, God, is this real? like is and And I think I felt like that for a while through through the the first three months, you know, before my life was rocked. Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
Okay. So yes, you, so first three months were like, you know, peeing on all of the sticks and, you know, all of the things. And now at 20 weeks, we have our anatomy scan. We're starting to settle in. We're in that, you know, sweet phase of like, Hey, we got past first trimester, you know, everything.
00:12:25
Speaker
And then jen you found out that Brooklyn had a congenital heart defect. Can you share what that moment was like and how you kind of prepared for what was ahead?
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah, well, that moment was the moment where it shook me to my core. I remember um laying there and I could just, I could tell by the nurses, like when she was scanning me that something was wrong. And my husband's a jokester. And he was like, he's like, Oh, she's stubborn, and like her mom. And I'm like, hitting him. I'm like, shut up.
00:12:58
Speaker
Like, something's wrong. Like, I just like I felt that and he was just trying to make light of the situation. And she's like, I'll be right back. I'm to go talk to the doctor. She's like, if you want, go get some water. The baby's in a position. They can't really like, you know, see like her heart really well.
00:13:13
Speaker
And I'm like, does she have the four chambers of the heart? Because I had tried to like tick tock on what I should look for and on a 20 week anatomy scan, you know, because I'm like, I don't know. um So they were like, yeah, she has the four chambers. So i was like, okay, so like, we're good. Like, what could it be? You know, and then the doctor finally came in. And then he's like, listen, she's kind of guarding her heart. She always would have her or arms like here.
00:13:33
Speaker
And on my Instagram, I actually have a picture of the ultrasound, a 3D ultrasound of her hands like this. And she was always covering her heart. um And I remember him saying, he's like, listen, you need to go see a specialist and do a fetal echo.
00:13:46
Speaker
um And I was like, do you want me to just come back? Because maybe it's just she's positioned incorrectly and you can you just need me to come at another time. It is, I think it was 19 weeks instead of 20. And he's like, no, if something's wrong.
00:13:59
Speaker
And, um, and I remember he left the room and I just like lost it. And my husband like grabbed my arms and he's like, Jen, he's like, if you can just do me one favor, he's like, just take this as another punch. And he's like, and we're going to get back up and everything's going to be okay. Like, we don't know what it is.
00:14:15
Speaker
Let's just like, stay strong in this. Like God's got this, like we're okay. And I was like, okay. You know, and, um, we went to see, We went to see another specialist and then they were talking about that she might need a heart transplant and and all of this. And in 2021, I lost my dad and my brother back to back in three months. And my dad had needed a lung transplant. And I knew like it had to be a specific size, a specific blood type. And I was just like, what are the chances of her surviving? i just and like To me, I already like was gut-wrenched. I'm like, she's...
00:14:48
Speaker
This is, you know, this is crazy. And I remember going home from that appointment um before we scheduled a second opinion with Columbia and CHOP Hospital in Philadelphia. And my husband, we had never had this conversation before because you just think that you don't ever really have to have a conversation. i was like, whatever it is, I'm like, we're going to get through it. And I...
00:15:07
Speaker
I was like, I'm on board. You know, I think like I have to believe in in in the power of prayer and miracles and everything's going to be okay. So I'm like, we'll get through this. So then we went to the Second Opinion Columbia. And um when we went there, they're like, oh, we found a valve.
00:15:24
Speaker
They were like the valve that was missing. She has pulmonary atresia with, I think, I forgot the exact like diagnosis they gave her. No, you're good. And to be fair, those words are very, very long.
00:15:37
Speaker
definite yeah it was um Yeah, it was pulmonary atresia. There was something else attached to her diagnosis.
00:15:47
Speaker
But they were like she's it's like um the Olympian, Sean White. he She can operate on a single ventricle. So I was just I told my husband, I'm like, you know, it's so crazy. I'm like, if you would have told us this first, we probably would have been devastated. But I walked out of there so happy because I was like, oh, my God, they found the valve like she's going to be OK. Like it's going to be really hard before it gets better, but it's going to be OK.
00:16:10
Speaker
And ah we went to Columbia first and then CHOP found the same thing. And I i just asked them, I'm like, why should I pick this hospital? Like, i I wanted to know, like, why we should come here because the commute was long from Brooklyn to Philly all the time.
00:16:22
Speaker
And but it was rated like the best, you know, um a hospital for children with heart disease and heart conditions. And they were like, I believe your daughter has more than a fighting chance. And they were just I remember the physician looked me straight in the eye and said that and I was like, I want to come here.
00:16:37
Speaker
Like, I'm going to make the commute. We're going make the commute. Like, this is it. Um, even though my husband, we had already planned to name our daughter Brooklyn from the beginning. He's like, how are we going to name our daughter Brooklyn? And she's going to born in Philly. Like, you know, that was like the biggest, you know, thing, but that's how, that's how everything happened with the, um, the heart condition.
00:16:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Jody, Your experience with that positive test, you were like in it, oh my gosh, here we go.
00:17:10
Speaker
and then throughout the pregnancy, how was going from, like you said, it was 10 years of just ups and downs. And now all of a sudden this reality has happened. How was that as you were just navigating all of those next steps?
00:17:27
Speaker
You know what people have never talked about? And so I experienced this. I think at like my nine week first real OB b appointment, yeah I was feeling like very sad.
00:17:38
Speaker
And I was like, why am I feeling this way? Because i'm I'm like very positive person, always happy. So i was like, I should be so happy right now. And I had a friend who went through donor conception and she's like, it's the fertility drugs. Like once you stop taking all that progesterone and stuff, like the clouds are gonna lift and you're gonna feel so much better. And she was so right, but I was like,
00:18:01
Speaker
Why do I like I was like I tell you my husband like you need to pray over me like this is does not feel right. And now I'm like was that a foreshadowing but you know you start overthinking things.
00:18:12
Speaker
But um I had a very peaceful easy great pregnancy. No problems barely felt sick like. I felt great, like very at peace because we tested our embryos. I thought I was carrying a healthy embryo that was 5AA graded, all of that. sure you know When you go through fertility and you get both biological parents tested with all the genetic testing and then you test your embryo and it's healthy, you think like, wow, you know I'm carrying a healthy baby.
00:18:46
Speaker
You don't think. that something is going to show up later. Yeah, so for sure. For sure. So tell me about the day for both of you when you both got to meet Mateo and and Brooklyn.
00:19:05
Speaker
I know, Jodi, you had had this peaceful pregnancy. Jen, you guys are you know frequent drivers from here, there, and everywhere throughout your pregnancy. What what was what were those days like whenever it's it's delivery day, it's time to meet you know this these precious precious babies?
00:19:25
Speaker
Well, for me, they did find something wrong at like 28 weeks. Mm-hmm. so They were like, something doesn't look right. I think there's something genetically wrong. And I was like, how is that possible? I i had my embryo tested and the doctor, she didn't have really great bedside manner, but she was like, those are just screenings.
00:19:46
Speaker
So we had an amnio at 28 weeks. Oh, wow. And my amnio came back normal. So I went ahead and had my- Which by the way, if I can just interject- The amnio, I mean, I had an amnio at 21 weeks, I think, or 20 weeks.
00:20:04
Speaker
That is the most scariest procedure to have done. and And to be 28 weeks, Jodi, my hat goes off to you because that it yeah it is just... The doctor was like, I don't usually do amnios at 28 weeks.
00:20:21
Speaker
So he was like, I could tell he was just like very nervous and tene you know like tense during it um But yeah, it came back normal. So I was like, okay, maybe he just needs more, like maybe it's my placenta, right? As a older mom, but they say your placenta can start, you know, it's like a battery that kind of, you know, isn't working as well towards the end. So I'm like, oh, okay, he's going to be like, he just needs to catch up.
00:20:46
Speaker
But they were saying that his brain, his cerebellum was looking smaller. So we had an idea, but then he started filling with fluid at 33 weeks.
00:20:58
Speaker
So they admitted me. And so I was in the hospital for two days and they're like, we need to take him out because he's now conserving energy and he's like not moving. So I knew in my C-section when he was going to be delivered
00:21:15
Speaker
that I wasn't going to be able to like hold him. yeah oh He had to be ventilated because he couldn't breathe on his own. So, you know, for like the first day I was afraid to like even go see him in the NICU.
00:21:30
Speaker
And my doctor was amazing. She's like, you need to go see your baby. um Like I saw him get like wheeled away. Like my husband got to cut down the vocal cord, but I didn't get to hold him. And I was like, just so scared. I get to bond with him.
00:21:45
Speaker
so
00:21:47
Speaker
hold them So until, the day we had to say bye to him. um And so like, I couldn't really like see his face well, cause he had all the tubes and all of that, you know?
00:22:00
Speaker
So eventually when they did take the breathing tube out and I could see his face,
00:22:08
Speaker
I was like so happy, it's so sad that I knew he was going to be passing, but so happy to see his face and just like in awe of him. So,
00:22:20
Speaker
That was like are my experience.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah. How did you navigate going from joy peace, yeah Now we're, hey there's something, there's something here we don't quite know.
00:22:41
Speaker
you Because I feel like it it it becomes it becomes so so medical at that point, as it should, but it becomes so we need to do this, we need to do this. And you're just kind of like, okay, okay, okay. And then it you don't actually really get to feel i you know what's happening in that moment.
00:23:02
Speaker
How did you navigate Going from all of that to he's here and and now it's it's all that that just blip of time of he's here but all of this other stuff is happening.
00:23:21
Speaker
It was a whirlwind because they wanted to see how he presented himself after he was born. So they were never like from the beginning, like he's not going to make it. So we were like, like, what is happening? Like, how is he doing? And they would give us updates.
00:23:35
Speaker
um But then they just said, okay, now his brain is filling with fluid and he can't, were trying to get him off the ventilator and he's not like, he can't breathe on his own. So um yeah, we were just,
00:23:52
Speaker
It's you're like in shock, you know, you're just like, like what the heck just happened? Yeah. Um, so it, you just, you're like in, in not in denial, but you're just like, did that just happen? Like that?
00:24:08
Speaker
Like, it feels like it's like, you're like, it's like an out of body experience. hu Um,
00:24:17
Speaker
so yeah, that's the, yeah. Can't believe it. We'll jump back into the episode in just a second. But if you've ever thought about doing something meaningful for someone else, keep listening.
00:24:28
Speaker
At Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions, we've spent the last 18 years working with women who choose to be part of something bigger than themselves. By becoming egg donors, they help intended parents take one of the most important steps towards having a child.
00:24:43
Speaker
It's not just generous, it's life-changing. And if you're healthy between the ages of 21 and 28 and curious about how it all works, we'd love to connect. You can download our egg donor guide or set up a quick 15-minute call at createahappyfamily.com.
00:24:58
Speaker
Our agency's promise is to guide and support you every step of the way, including fair compensation for the time and commitment to your egg donor cycle, as you promise to give a parent the greatest gift one can give, a child of their own.
00:25:12
Speaker
You might be the missing piece in someone's family's story. Now, let's get back to the show. Jen, your experience is slightly different in you, you knew there was something that you were going to you knew delivery, there were going to be things that needed to be taken care of, you know, with Brooklyn afterwards.
00:25:33
Speaker
How did you head into delivery day knowing, okay, like, yes, delivery day, we're so excited. And we also know there's, you know, we, we have some things we're going to, we're going to be battling afterwards.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like I mentally prepared myself to see her with wires and tubes. And so I was really excited. I was actually, to be quite honest, I was more nervous about the C-section for me because i was just like, do you have everything you need for me in case something goes wrong? Because I just felt everything has been like, I just was like, she's in the best care. She's has a million prayers behind her. The doctors are the best in the world. I'm like, we are,
00:26:13
Speaker
we're good, you know, and we just mentally prepared ourselves to see like was going to be really bad before it looks good. So the whole even like Like I love talking about um my C-section because it was perfect. And just like Jodi too, my pregnancy, I wasn't sick, nothing. I mean, aside from the trauma of finding out she was ill, other than that, it was a perfect pregnancy and my delivery was perfect. Yeah, I threw up a little bit, but I didn't, I think I was just like also excited, the nerves, like everything. But they even, they allowed me to have like um ah like a worship song being played in the background.
00:26:51
Speaker
And I was just, it was to me like such a precious moment, um like this miracle that I prayed for for so long. And I remember when they held her up, she was blue.
00:27:04
Speaker
ah she was She was actually, she almost looked black because she was so, um the umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck twice. And I was actually really a little bit scared because I'm like, I didn't hear her cry when she came out. It was just like here. And like they showed her and they took her away because I knew, again, I wasn't going to have her laid on my my chest. Like I knew I wasn't going to have any of that either.
00:27:27
Speaker
um but I was just like i I couldn't believe that she was here i remember i always thought she was gonna have like this really big nose because of all the um ultrasound pictures her nose was like it was like the perfect little cute little button nose I'm like oh my god I'm like I just wanted to see her again i remember they rolled me back to my room after like they tightened me up and They did whatever they needed to do to her, gave her the medicine, put the breathing tubes on everything on her.
00:27:53
Speaker
And they wheeled her in they wieled her in for like two minutes. And my mom was in the room. My sister was in the room. Everyone got to see her. Nobody could touch her. Um, but I did get to like, put my hands like in hers and, um, and it was just like, it was such a, such a beautiful moment. And I think I was still too, like, you know, the medicine and everything. I was so groggy. Yeah. Um, and I couldn't believe that I had her and,
00:28:18
Speaker
you know, speaking with friends who had kids, I remember them telling me like when they were pregnant, do you feel the connection? And like, I felt like it was such a hard battle for me and feeling that I was pregnant and knowing why I was pregnant. I didn't really like have that until I saw her. And then i realized like when they wheeled her away from me, i' like, oh my god like I need to be with her.
00:28:37
Speaker
i just, I was like, I just want to be with her. And i realized at that moment that I'm like, I always had the connection, but it was just, it wasn't, what I thought like that feeling was, but I guess I just always had it. I just didn't know it was there. um So to me, I mean, the first the first two days was fantastic because even the second day, they wound up taking off all of the wires, everything. And I had her take like her little outfit I had picked out for her going home.
00:29:05
Speaker
And they allowed me to take a picture, even though she still had to be like, like they had like IVs in her and like her feet. So they kind of like covered it. So I had a good picture of her. And after that second day, it was all downhill. But I mean, i was so grateful for those two days.
00:29:19
Speaker
I never, like I ah long for like, I wish I would have had, you know, skin to skin. I never had any of that. And like that, like, yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
So that was that was my, yeah. She was perfect though. Yes, she was perfect with a perfect nose. and She was perfect.
00:29:44
Speaker
So you had those beautiful two days. why What happened after that? After that, i remember um i was I thought everything was going to... i was like, this is great.
00:29:58
Speaker
I was just like, she is off of everything. She was taking a bottle. She was pooping. Everything was... i was just like, this is... We're going go home. like She's going go home. And before...
00:30:10
Speaker
um the last fetal echo the um the head cardiologist told us that she was not she was probably not going to have open heart surgery until six months after um based on the last you know scan he's like things could change but he's like he doubts that it would change drastically he's like i don't think we'll do it like within the first week because it was either wait six months or do it right away but they said that they would let us know but after that last scan he was like it's looking like we're going to do it in six months, which made me feel better, even though I was a little nervous, going to like being able to have to take her home and like monitor her oxygen levels and do all that. But I was like, you know what?
00:30:47
Speaker
We're going to prepare ourselves for that. Um, I remember the third day I went to go take a shower, um And my husband comes up because he was with the baby and he was just like, ah the surgeon just came up to me and told me that she's slotted for open heart surgery on Friday. And i was like, well, he can't just do that because we need to be like a family and we need to have this discussion. And how it like I was just, no, ah like we need to have a conversation. So they wound up scheduling us time that day.
00:31:14
Speaker
and I remember I was a surgeon I had never met before. um And I just had so many questions. was like, is she young? Like, is she too young to have the surgery? Because i had her at 37 weeks.
00:31:26
Speaker
um And I was like, is she like, is she strong enough? I just i felt like i I, wish that somebody was with me there. who didn't go through what I went through and just was like an advocate for me and for like my baby and and letting me know like options in the sense of like can we delay the surgery like is this the best you know decision and and and choice to move like forward with um because like looking back I mean, that's a whole other conversation, but um she, so yeah, so then I was like, I guess we have to trust God and trust the doctors. And she was slated for open heart surgery. um They had to do a CAT scan before.
00:32:10
Speaker
um I remember, them telling me after she had the surgery that Friday that she was like showing off, but like seeing your baby, seeing your baby sedated before and intubated and he's seeing them cry like a silent cry.
00:32:26
Speaker
She never opened her eyes um ever. And my husband was like, that was probably for like, you know, for our sake too, like that you didn't see like the insides of like her soul, but just to see her like cry,
00:32:41
Speaker
but not speak because she was sedated, like broke me to pieces. um I felt like I was doing something wrong. And um
00:32:55
Speaker
and they took her and he they told me like, oh, she's showing off. We went to see her. And I was just like, she looks dead. she looked completely, she was a different color. She was different colors every day because of the oxygen levels and, you know, the things that were happening to her, but she was still so perfect for me.
00:33:13
Speaker
Like I would do anything to have my sick baby back, you know? Um, but I remember that Saturday night, um, she was started having, brain bleeds because I, I think everything triggered was because of the open heart surgery.
00:33:30
Speaker
And, um, It was like failing, it was going like up and down the levels. My husband had his two kids with us for the weekend. And I was like, you need to get here now. After like her second seizure, I was like, you need to, and the thing is you couldn't even see it because she was sedated and paralyzed were the words that they were telling us.
00:33:47
Speaker
um And I was like, you need to come here. And like, we were praying. um so much and like she finally got steeped like she part got stable that night because the surgeon came to us again saying that they need to open her chest up even further um and I was just like I don't even know if this is okay Like, I just even asked, I remember asking the doctors and the nurses, I'm like, why do you allow people, like parents to see this? Like, and they were like, you know a lot of parents um think that we don't do enough, you know, so they like allow them to like see this. And I'm like, for me, I'm like, if you pumped me with that much medication, if you opened my heart like that, and I'm like, I would die. Yeah.
00:34:28
Speaker
You know, so like I, I didn't feel like the same way, but my sister was telling me she was like, Jen, she's like, you know that if you weren't there, you would feel ah different way too. so I'm like, you're right. um remember we had like um ah like we had her baptized that night and um there were so she she was stable and I kind of had hope, but I was really struggling with my faith that night because I was like i felt like every time I pray really hard, something happens. Like when I lost my dad and my brother, was like, God, please.
00:35:00
Speaker
So I kind of just like, I prayed like inner prayer, but kind of like left it like dormant because I had just i was kind of scared to go deep. Um, and they said, please stay in the, the sleep suite that we have just sleep for a couple hours. We'll call you if anything happens.
00:35:16
Speaker
And, um, I didn't want to leave her, but they were like, you need to be able to be strong for her when she's okay. Like, that's what they kept on saying. They never once made it seem like she was going to die. It was just like, i was like, okay, so this is like the really dark part, you know?
00:35:29
Speaker
Um, And I remember we were sleeping on this little cot. I mean, I'm what, five days, four days past ah C-section. Me and my husband are in this little cot together. And um I remember waking up like after two hours, like, or three hours with completely drenched in sweat. And I was like, babe, I'm like, something's happening. Like something's like, he's like, nothing's happening. i'm like, something's happening. Like, I feel it like in my soul. Like I just, he's like, they said that they would call us.
00:35:56
Speaker
Five minutes later, we get the call. They were like, you need to come. So we just walked right outside the door. And they were resuscitating her. Like, it's already been like, this is like the seventh time. And, um and the nurse was just like, they're resuscitating. They're like walking me through everything that they're doing as we're watching them perform this on her.
00:36:14
Speaker
And um they were like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, just stop. I was like, just stop. I'm like, you're hurting her. I'm like, you're, you're killing her. I'm like, just stop. And they were like, do you want to hold her? And I was like, yes. I'm like,
00:36:27
Speaker
And they gave me her and they took off all the wires on her hair, but they kept her heart monitor on and you literally saw like her heartbeat go to zero. And um she died in my arms, which was really hard for me in the beginning to process, to be able to like lose my daughter like that. And I was like the trauma, but then I was like, you know what? I want to change my narrative and like, and be able to say like, I ushered her into heaven.
00:36:54
Speaker
She went from like my arms to God's and she wasn't in like someone else's hands. She was in mine, you know? um would I do anything to have her back? Yes.
00:37:06
Speaker
You know, but if I have to look at like the positive side of that is like, I had an opportunity that most people don't get
00:37:17
Speaker
get. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of those early days. How did you both navigate that type of loss
00:37:33
Speaker
in just just those that those beginning weeks. Yeah. I think me and Jen, we both come from like a faith-based background.
00:37:45
Speaker
So that really helped us to be as strong as we could be. Plus like having amazing husbands to support us.
00:37:56
Speaker
um I just had the worship music on like the whole time I was in the but you know before I had my c-section during my c-section the charge nurse that was taking care of me before my c-section when I was there for a couple of days came into my surgery room and I thought she was gonna help with the surgery and she was like no honey I saw you walk in here and I'm here to pray for you so God just like showed up when I needed him most
00:38:31
Speaker
and she prayed for me in the C section room and all the women in the room just let us have that moment and so I really feel like my faith and my husband's faith and just us staying super close together and looking at it like he's happy and healthy in heaven and he's not here suffering because we would not want him to be here and not have a good quality of life.
00:39:01
Speaker
So we were like thankful for the experience of getting pregnant, being pregnant, having our baby shower, like experiencing, like being pregnant together and being able to like meet him.
00:39:15
Speaker
But so we were trying to be positive. Like, what are we grateful for? The gratitude. of just like meeting him and like having that experience yeah there's so many women never experienced like I try to get pregnant for ten years so I i was like just so happy to like just spirits like pregnancy um but all of our family and friends were so supportive and like just flooded us with like gift cards and flowers and dinners and
00:39:48
Speaker
you know, my church community like brought this beautiful basket with like, you know, all the things. So we didn't have to like think about anything. And then like, I work at a salon. So all the salon girls put together like a basket to like a spa day. And like, you know, everybody just poured into us. Um, I work at a salon. So I work with women every day sitting in my chair, like doing eyebrows. And so, um, I've went back to work pretty quickly because I was like, I need to get back to my normal.
00:40:21
Speaker
So I think I only took like three weeks off and I emailed all my clients, like come see me with a happy face. And like, I don't want to talk about anything like just come and they would bring flowers and just cry. Some of them would just cry in my chair because they didn't know what to say to me.
00:40:44
Speaker
So that was very hard to see like Everybody's so happy and so like wow you took this long to get pregnant and you're pregnant like so happy for us and then to see each woman come into my Salon and sit in my chair and just be like so sad So that that was hard. That's hard to see like people that you love so sad for you Like that was like very hard for me personally. I think you just feel like, like you're already like, you kind of feel like shameful that you had to use an egg donor.
00:41:23
Speaker
And then you feel shameful that you're like, I was 44. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm like an old mom. You feel like embarrassed. And then when it doesn't work out and it's not successful, you're like, you feel like so embarrassed and like shameful. Like I failed my husband to become a father, you know? So you go through It's just like a lot of back and forth. and And I just would pray and be like, no, like I am enough.
00:41:48
Speaker
Like I did the best that I could. I did everything that I could and I gave it my best, you know? And I just tried to say, what would you tell your best friend? And that's the way you need to talk to yourself.
00:42:00
Speaker
So that's how I got through it. How did you, you, Let's go back to that that word of of shame, because I think there there is a lot of shame and heartache and you know just the unanswered question of why? Why me? Why this? Why? Just just on the road of infertility in general.
00:42:25
Speaker
And then there, there can be that feeling of so much shame around, you know, my, my, I'm, my body is, is supposed to do this. I have all of the things that make it where I'm supposed to do this.
00:42:42
Speaker
And now i am in a situation where i'm I'm looking at donor eggs and, and the, the, Just having to grapple with that choice or, you know, even, you know, women and families that are like, my body's supposed to do this and I can't. And I'm now relying on another woman to carry my baby, you know, if that's the route that.
00:43:05
Speaker
you know you take and just how did you navigate that internal battle that you were having? And then you're dealing with your own grief. And then you were saying you're kind of taking on almost everyone else's grief as well.
00:43:22
Speaker
How are you navigating just that wave of emotion? Yeah. I mean, for me, cause my, my amyote came back normal.
00:43:33
Speaker
right They have a new test where they take your amniotic fluid and do a whole exome sequencing.
00:43:41
Speaker
So we didn't get those results probably like four weeks after Mateo passed. So as a woman, you think, was it my body? oh My body did not perform.
00:43:55
Speaker
It lacked, you know, you blame yourself as a woman. because your body's not doing what it's supposed to do. And now your baby passed away. So obviously like it was your fault. So we got the results back that he had a duplication on chromosome number one.
00:44:11
Speaker
So I guess it's just very rare. They can't find it in an amnio. They can't find it with PGT testing. yeah It's just being hit with lightning. That's what they told me.
00:44:23
Speaker
This is not gonna happen to you again, Jodi. Your body did everything that it was supposed to do. And you could do this again. If you're too traumatized, you could have a surrogate and have you know someone else carry.
00:44:36
Speaker
um But yeah, just like eventually when you're like able to talk about it, people are like, well, are you gonna do this again? Are you gonna get a surrogate? I'm like, I don't need a surrogate. My body did what it was supposed to do.
00:44:47
Speaker
My body's fine. But you know it's hard for everybody to process because they want they think it's like your body. Like, what do you mean it was genetically, like you had an amnio, it was normal. So it's like mind blowing confusion.
00:45:02
Speaker
Yeah. oh Yeah. That's a lot to take on. a Jen, what about you? i know Brooklyn's day year.
00:45:14
Speaker
this year her birthday. How have, how, how are those early days of grief and how has it evolved since then?
00:45:30
Speaker
I feel like I'm still walking through it. Yeah. um But I remember when I first lost her. um First of all, I think the hospitals need to be very educated in how to deal with women after a loss. Because it's kind of just like, do you want her stuff in a box? Okay, we can validate your parking. And then you just walk away without your daughter. And after you've just been there and like, it's just, it was a very...
00:45:59
Speaker
Shocking experience and and just walking through that was was very hard. But um we had a huge community um of support around us when people found out.
00:46:10
Speaker
um But I just remember that, um you know, when when I lost my dad, my brother, and even my marriage, I kind of blamed God, but I clung to him so much this time because I felt like I needed him in order to like breathe, like truly just breathe through this.
00:46:27
Speaker
um And I remember that the one thing I wanted to find was women who have walked through this and women who were my age and women who didn't have previous kids. Not that one loss doesn't mean like, you know, it doesn't negate, you know, like the fact that it still probably hurts just as much, but I just wanted...
00:46:45
Speaker
to to know someone who walked through like what I walked through. And I remember Victoria had seen my post and she reached out to me and she was like, what do you need? And I'm like, I need someone. Like, I just need someone who's walked through this.
00:46:58
Speaker
And so she, I guess, put a blast on her Instagram and um she had a bunch of people that messaged her and gave her like, you know, um contact information. And she said Jodi was one of the first.
00:47:11
Speaker
And I don't know why I gravitated to that name. And I was like, I'm going to reach out to her. And after talking to her, I was just like, there was a reason why, you know, we connected and for more than just the loss of our our children.
00:47:25
Speaker
um And I can see that like now. um But I knew like I needed to know that I could survive this. um Because I wasn't like Jodi in the sense of like, she had to go back to work. I'm like, how am I going to go back to work? You know, I was, I remember telling her, I'm like, I like, I need like my time. Like, I just, I honestly just didn't know how it was going to function because I was like, God, you know, like I accepted the fact that like, I had to like wait this long. I accepted the fact that I had to use donor eggs. I accepted the fact she was going to have a heart condition. Like, and then like, she's gone, you know, like I just,
00:48:03
Speaker
I knew it was going to be a difficult path, but I could not understand why she was taken. And I still don't understand, but I know that um some things are are left to be not understood.
00:48:15
Speaker
And we well we won't have answers for things. and And I think our response to situations in our life are what brings people to know Christ. It's such a huge part of like who I am and like the more that I've gone through this is...
00:48:32
Speaker
is is truly, I feel like the reason, um you know, to know that like there is hope and that grief, joy and and hope can coexist.
00:48:43
Speaker
And, um And I know that like I also found a foundation um online through Instagram when I was looking through um just like support, which was um I don't know if you've ever heard of them. It's Walk With You.
00:48:56
Speaker
um found they're They're a nonprofit. And um I met Kylie. And what they do is they help you because, you know, as foundation,
00:49:07
Speaker
first mom and then um a mom going through postpartum and then a grieving mom that no longer has a child in her arm. There's so many decisions that have to be made from funeral arrangements to um the headstone and to like all these things. And they literally like take that information and they do everything for you. Like she literally like walks with you. She was a nurse.
00:49:30
Speaker
She was a NICU nurse and she dealt so much with like loss and she wanted to be there for women like us who have lost, you know, children. And she's created this amazing nonprofit. And because of her, like she they also connect you with other bereaved parents um for the year of the first year.
00:49:49
Speaker
So I had that done too. And then also too, if you're interested, you can give them your family's phone numbers along with your friends' phone numbers, your closest people to you. And they have like a talk with them, kind of like the do's and don'ts to say. And like, cause there's so much sometimes that, you know, um people say that sometimes are very like hurtful.
00:50:10
Speaker
And they don't even know they're being hurtful. And, um and so it was really great to like have them and like, they don't even have a converse. They've never had a conversation with me and what was hurtful to me or not.
00:50:23
Speaker
They just had, I guess, you know, it's from situations that have happened before they kind of have a conversation about it. And honestly, that organization changed my life.
00:50:34
Speaker
Um, and then diving into the Brooklyn Zoe foundation and opening. I just, i wanted to do something that kept her alive and I haven't really done much with it yet.
00:50:47
Speaker
Um, But it was my way of like, I told my husband the other day, we had like made sweatshirts and I was like, I asked him to like walk with me. he was like, I have so much to do. I'm like, you have to understand that this is to me, is like this is like her birthday. Like I'm i'm doing something for her birthday. Like i'm I'm taking her to a cheerleading game. Like these are the things that are helping me like keep her alive.
00:51:08
Speaker
And yeah. And yeah, so like doing things like that and and I wish I could be more in it. It's just, I've like dabbled. um So I'm trying to be more um active in the foundation and and really like running with it because I want to be there for women who are walking through this, who feel like they're alone and they don't know who to turn to and like do the calls that they don't want to do at the moment, like, and to, you know, lift that burden for them.
00:51:39
Speaker
um that they're carrying at the current moment, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's an awesome foundation that you found because I would have loved to have had that because I had my whole nursery done and I didn't want to see anything and there. I wanted to return everything. i was like I'm not, I'm not doing this again. Like, and why I thought I had to do that immediately was torture because I would literally take,
00:52:07
Speaker
my baby stuff to like Target or like Amazon and they would turn me away because I didn't have the right receipt. oh So after feeling like rejection of like being a mother because my baby just went to heaven, now you have to go back, turn around, go back to your car with your baby stuff. we're not You can't return it here.
00:52:31
Speaker
And so I was like, yeah why am I doing this to myself? Like, this is torture. So then I just put everything in like bins and like, so I didn't see it and put it away.
00:52:42
Speaker
But I really like a foundation like that. Cause I would call baby lists. Cause that's who I registered with. And I was like, my baby passed. What do I do with all this stuff? And they didn't even know how to help me. I'm like, you need someone to come to the house, itemize ah everything and hand a grieving mother a check.
00:52:58
Speaker
like I mean, something. that when she's ready, she can go buy, ah and she wants to do it again, she can go buy all the things she needs for her baby. But they they they couldn't help me.
00:53:10
Speaker
So that's another thing that grieving mothers need is help. Yeah. It's those little things though. You're so, you're so right. i was, um I was talking to um her name is Kristen McQuid and she has, it's called London is the reason.
00:53:27
Speaker
And she was talking about how those first days before she came home from the hospital, her sister had gone into her house and had packed up everything. um And then the second thing that she did was um she got rid of all the white flowers.
00:53:41
Speaker
She was like, I want color. I don't want white flowers. That was that was her thing. She was... she you know talk Talk about like little things to to say or or not say. like That was one of her things. She was like, do not give someone white flowers when they've lost their baby. Give them color. Give them you know give them vibrant color. That always stuck with me. but it But you're so right. It's those little things that ah you don't think about.
00:54:08
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, you're just you're hit with with all of it at once. Jen, I know you you said you were you didn't even you didn't even know how you were going to breathe the next day, let alone go back to work.
00:54:22
Speaker
how what What has kept you going? How were you able to kind of one foot in front of the other move forward? Well, for me, I mean, aside from God just giving me the strength to do it, um i remember the first month of after losing Brooklyn, after talking to my therapist, it was just really, really heavy for me.
00:54:47
Speaker
And um when we had the burial and everything, I just, I felt like I was not only burying my daughter, I felt like I was burying my dream that I've like longed for for so long. And losing my dad, I thought I was like,
00:55:02
Speaker
it's it's so crazy how you just compare the things in your life. Like when I lost my marriage, I thought that was the biggest thing. I was just like, oh my God, this is so like heart wrenching. And then when I lost my dad, I'm like, this is so much harder losing someone that loved me. And I love them losing someone who didn't love me. Right.
00:55:17
Speaker
And then losing my daughter, I was like, why does this hurt more than my dad that I've had memories with like forever? And it's just because it's like all these like dreams and plans that you had. And my therapist was like, Jen, she's like, you don't have to grieve.
00:55:32
Speaker
both she was like you can grieve your daughter but like you still have an opportunity to because I have one embryo left and when she told me that you know like age is such a it's a big factor for me and it plays like a major part and I get like so angry that I'm like why like if I was like 35 you know I could be like let's do it again and again and again you know but I feel like time is like not on my side you know um So i I say all that to say what's kept me going is the hope of the ability to like have again.
00:56:12
Speaker
um Because I love my job and I love the people I work with, but the only title I've ever wanted was mom. And I know I have that title. But I know it's been hard for me too to sometimes like feel like a mom, like my body feels like a mom because I mean, I have all the extra weight and everything that comes with motherhood.
00:56:31
Speaker
But i don't have a and I don't have a baby in my arms to show it. You know, I have scars in my heart and my stomach and in my body. And but one thing that Brooklyn...
00:56:44
Speaker
like gave to me was like she my husband's like she was born a fighter like she was born with her heart with her arms tied behind her back and just fighting like punch after punch and I'm like and she gave me the strength to like fight again i'm like i don't I don't know when I don't know. i feel like once you're in this and this IVF journey, like you kind of like, you always say like next time is going to be like, that's it. Like, I'm not going to do this again. And then you just find yourself like in it again because it's like, it's just what you want.
00:57:18
Speaker
I'm here and I'm hopeful. I'm like believing for a miracle. um i still have fight in me. And um I know i i just turned 44. But so um but i I don't know, I just have hope and I have faith and I feel like all of that can coexist. And I feel like that is what kept me going this year because I was just like, if I could just get through this year, like this first year for being gone.
00:57:45
Speaker
um But I feel like having God and having faith and having hope has allowed me to come this far. That's amazing.
00:57:57
Speaker
That's amazing. And I'm, Wow. One of the things, you know, after after hearing all of this, you know, and we kind of have touched on it, there there is still, i think, so much stigma around using donor eggs and even more silence, I think, around infant loss.
00:58:26
Speaker
What do you wish people understood better about your stories? Well, for me, i can say um one of the biggest things I think that affected me and Jordi, I don't know if you feel like this. I feel like you might feel differently than me, um but I still want to hear my daughter's name.
00:58:49
Speaker
I still want to talk about her. I still want to know that I had a great pregnancy and I feel like they're almost like when your baby dies, I feel like the world thinks that like, because she died, like your story of motherhood dies, like you're everything. You just become silenced.
00:59:07
Speaker
And, um, and I hate that. And I just, I remember being out with my friend the other day, um in in New York and there were she this we were with this mom who just had a baby and she was like talking about like, you know, her pregnancy and how she felt connected. And then my friend was talking and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna chime in because I'm probably gonna make her feel uncomfortable but I had a pregnancy too. And I had those feelings too. And yes, she's not here, but like, that was like a hard thing for me to swallow. Cause like going back to work too, it's like people are like, one of the main questions is every time I would go to like a different boutique to open up, they would be like, Oh, how many kids do you have? And I, before I was just like, Oh, I have two stepkids. And like, no, I have a baby in heaven and I have two beautiful bonus kids. And it's all the way you say it too, right? Like I'm not making it like, Oh, she just died in January. you know, yeah that's really heavy.
01:00:00
Speaker
um And I get that, but I'm like, I had her, she was real. And I just feel like, you know, we have to, I feel like society makes us quiet or like we have to be quiet when in reality, like if it makes someone uncomfortable, like I'm sorry, but like she was real, she was mine. Like I want to talk about her. Like I know I don't have birthdays to talk about, but one of the things with the organization, the nonprofit,
01:00:26
Speaker
um When I was talking to that girl, Kylie, she was like, after we got off the phone and I had told her my story, she's like, Jen, she's like, if you feel comfortable enough, I would love to see pictures of her. I'm like, nobody had ever asked me to like see a picture of my daughter. And it, it gave me so much joy because I never had like those things that you long for as a mom to like be able to do, like all of that was robbed from us.
01:00:48
Speaker
So when you have someone who understands the process and like, it's just like, Hey, like it to me, like I just, Like, I love being able to say Mateo's name to Jodi. You know what I mean? Like, i ah he was real. He was a person.
01:01:03
Speaker
He had a social security card. He had a birth certificate. Like, you know, unfortunately, we get the birth and the death all at one time. But they were real to us. And I just, you know, I wish, like, that's one thing that, like, I just was wish was seen differently is that, you know, to make it...
01:01:21
Speaker
To make it easy to to talk about. I mean, I guess, you know, too, some people are different. Maybe they don't want to and they want to push that aside. But for me, I'm like, after longing for something for so long, she was so real to me. You know, she was a person. She was my daughter. She made me a mom.
01:01:36
Speaker
So. So you're so strong, Jen, for like, if when people ask you that, that you say, i have a baby in heaven, you know, because at first I was like, what do I say when people ask me that?
01:01:48
Speaker
Right? Like, you don't know what to say. You don't want to make people feel uncomfortable. though like, usually when people ask me, I say no, um, I don't have kids because they're not like here with me, I guess.
01:02:00
Speaker
Um, but my best friend gave me a jean jacket at my baby shower that has Mateo's name on it. And it's like my favorite jacket. Love that. And I wear it all the time. And I remember like soon after Mateo passed, I wore it to like a doctor's appointment. And one of the nurses like, oh my God, I love your jacket. It's so cute. Like, who's Mateo? And I was like, that's my baby.
01:02:22
Speaker
And I told him, told her like he just passed away. And she, the look on her face, she was like, of course she didn't know. She didn't know, you know, but she was like embarrassed and she felt like,
01:02:34
Speaker
oh my god like I can't believe I just asked her but she didn't know and I said if I didn't want people to ask I wouldn't wear this jacket yeah do you know what I mean and then I was like thank you for like loving my jacket and like on our baby's first birthday boat I got my Mateo tattooed on me and I don't have any tattoos so I felt like I needed something of him on um um So we have that. And then my husband just got his name here. And so when he wears V-neck t-shirts, you can really see it And I love seeing it all the time and people will ask him and he will say, oh, that's like my baby, you know, our baby we had. And he got like a tattoo of a lion and a tattoo of a soldier. Like it's all like representation of Mateo. And so, cause we had, me and Jen have this in common, but in our delivery room, we had the song gratitude by Brandon Lake.
01:03:28
Speaker
in the delivery room and that's something that we share too. We're like we're like soul sisters um in that way. but um And it has you have ah a lion in your heart or what is it? A lion in your lungs, right Jen? That's what it says. And so my husband wanted to get like a lion tattooed on him and a soldier because he's like a warrior in heaven. And so like you do all these things to try to keep their memory alive.
01:03:50
Speaker
um And so like that's kind of like what we've done. yeah yeah That's amazing. And I think it's beautiful that you... i think one thing that about about grief is there's no right or wrong way two
01:04:09
Speaker
navigate it yeah And I think one of the things that I love so much about y'all stories is how you celebrate Mateo and how you celebrate Brooklyn. And because, you know, whether, whether it's a tattoo, a gorgeous jacket or a beautiful foundation that has her name,
01:04:31
Speaker
it's, it's a celebration of them. And I mean, who doesn't want to celebrate their baby? Everybody does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How has definition of motherhood changed through this journey, the whole journey from 10 and 15 years of just trying to get that positive to, you know, being mom with angel babies?
01:04:57
Speaker
How has that changed?
01:05:01
Speaker
I mean, for me, I had Mateo in April, so soon after it was Mother's Day. So everybody was texting me like, Happy Mother's Day, and like giving me like little, know, sis with his name, sis with his name it, and you know, sweet things like that.
01:05:17
Speaker
um But some people that were very close to me didn't want to tell me Happy Mother's Day because they felt like, well, she's not a mother because her mom, her baby passed away. So they felt like they couldn't say happy mother's day because they felt like maybe that would be painful.
01:05:33
Speaker
So, you know, so sometimes people don't know what to say and that's fine, you know? um but you know, after that mother's day, no one texts messages me happy mother's day. You know what I mean? Like it's been two years now. So I'm like, that's totally fine. Like I know. And my husband knows. So I don't know if I'll ever do it again.
01:05:52
Speaker
i mean, we spent so much money on fertility. I always tell my husband, if we win the lottery, then maybe we'll do a surrogate because we still have two embryos. But it's like, we're just getting older. Right. And it's like, we don't really have the funds to do that. And so, um, we're just like in limbo right now. so like, yeah.
01:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. I'm hearing what honestly what I'm hearing is your definition of motherhood and hasn't changed maybe for others and how they talk to you, but your mom.
01:06:28
Speaker
Yeah. What about you, Jen?
01:06:32
Speaker
Honestly, I don't know why I struggle with that so much. ah Because yes, I'm Brooklyn's mom and I do everything to try to make her like alive with me, but I don't, to be honest, to be completely honest, sometimes I don't feel like one.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yeah. yeah So it's kind of hard. um I feel like I try my best to try to feel like one, but if I could be honest inside, sometimes I don't.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was because like our babies are not here for us to like nurture and like mother them, you know? So it's like, we have like a memory of them and like, they made it us a mom in that moment, but we don't have them here to like take care of them, to be a mom too.
01:07:23
Speaker
So I think, yeah, we both struggle with that. And I think that's totally normal. Yeah. Oh, I agree. i think it, it, it's so hard to have the title, but not have the action steps.
01:07:36
Speaker
And yeah, and that's that's that struggle after and throughout. yeah For sure. For sure. For someone walking through grief right now.
01:07:50
Speaker
What words of of hope would you offer?
01:07:56
Speaker
That you're not alone, that God's with you. that he weeps with you and that he carries you. And that there's a, unfortunately, but fortunately, a strong group of women that walk beside you in this um and that you're not alone.
01:08:12
Speaker
There's so many, um i hate to say we're part of a club, right? That we don't want to be a part of, but and instead it's not a club. It's just a network of women that have walked through this journey.
01:08:25
Speaker
yeah, and And you're, they're just truly not alone. and And grief comes in waves and it's okay to walk and feel and heal how you need to.
01:08:38
Speaker
But just knowing, I feel like one of the biggest things to feel in all of that is you're not alone. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very open to, I feel like a lot of women, they will shut down and they, they, they, um, are quiet because they do feel shameful or it just hurts them to talk about.
01:08:56
Speaker
So I think sometimes when I talk about it with women, they're like, oh my gosh, is she really talking about this? You know, like they're kind of like, they don't know what to say, but they're listening. um and so I always try to tell like my young girls, my clients,
01:09:12
Speaker
like get educated about your fertility because your OBGYN will tell you how to not get pregnant, but they're not going to talk to you about your fertility. And you need to know just like, you know, about your cholesterol and you're like, but whatever it is, like you go to the doctor for everything.
01:09:28
Speaker
You need to know what your fertility is and don't expect like, I just thought, Oh, I need to have a baby before I'm 35. No, you need to know about your fertility in your twenties. You need to know where you're at. You need to,
01:09:40
Speaker
be able to make a decision whether you want to freeze your eggs. um Like insurance needs to be more on board with helping women do that, preserve their fertility, help them with fertility.
01:09:52
Speaker
Like we're not here trying to get cosmetic surgery. but Like we're here to try to grow our family. and if we have diagnosis or even if we don't, sometimes it's fertility, you know, they don't understand why it needs to be covered.
01:10:06
Speaker
Um, so that we're not having to like wait so long and having to get donor eggs and pain all the, it's just, it's wild. So I just try to educate like all the young girls that I know.
01:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful spot to be in of, you know, Jodi for you being support for, you know, Jen and, and other women that share this. And then yes, just from that place of, you know, Hey, this was my experience. Like hear me now. Oh, young ones, please.
01:10:41
Speaker
Yeah. yes Yeah. Yeah. What do you want the world to know most about Mateo and Brooklyn?
01:10:53
Speaker
think I mean, for me, I guess would say like, I want people to remember Brooklyn by knowing that miracles happen. and regardless of using donor eggs or natural, you know, IVF, whatever I feel like God is the only giver of life and she was truly a miracle um regardless of how much medication we're putting in our bodies to try to make this happen.
01:11:20
Speaker
um i you know I'm grateful for... know... i know it might be looked down like again. Like I'm, I'm in the boat with, with Jodi that sometimes you almost feel like shameful. And I love how Victoria speaks about it, like in such a natural way. And, and it's such a beautiful gift, honestly, that a woman can give to someone like us who are struggling and don't have the, the good quality of eggs that are needed to, you know, have a child. And and it it is embarrassing sometimes like for me to like, to be able to say it, but like, I just want to be able to speak so freely of it.
01:11:54
Speaker
um and to it because it's, she was a miracle and miracles happen. And, um, she was living proof of it. And she was the strongest fighter that I knew.
01:12:09
Speaker
ah yeah so I'm, I, that's what I would say. Yeah. That's beautiful. I know you, um, you said, you created the Brooklyn Zoe Foundation and it's kind of, you know, in those beginning stages, but can you tell us a little bit more about the foundation and just share what that work means to you?
01:12:33
Speaker
Yes. So I created the foundation for women who are at advanced maternal age, undergoing IVF and for families who have lost their babies.
01:12:44
Speaker
because there are obviously two things that hold very dear to my heart as walking through something. Um, so i launched it for that purpose.
01:12:55
Speaker
Um, so now it's just, I'm working through how am I going to create the funds? I really want to partner with, um, we walk with you because they, you know, work with the families to help pay for some of the headstones and, and things like that. And I just, I want to be able to help families like directly, um because I want to give people like us hope.
01:13:20
Speaker
that, you know, they they can still have and and I don't want finances to be in the way because it is such a heavy burden on us too I mean I remember the first I remember the first batch of eight eggs and only one embryo I spent $27,000 and for them to tell me one made it it just like it was gut-wrenching and i'm like how am I gonna get the funding to like do the like this is just absurd and and wild and crazy and am I doing the right thing and
01:13:51
Speaker
you know, all these questions like come up, but like more than anything, like I just want this foundation to be able to help women in need, even if it's just like a portion of, you know, of just a medicine bill or or something that can like take that.
01:14:04
Speaker
And just, you know, like Jodi said, how like she wished that somebody could just come in and do like an inventory list and take it back. Like just something like that, if they're in the area, like just to be able to really truly number one, help women who are agg grieving or help women who are currently undergoing you know IVF or help women who are walking into the donor you know program and and having like you know their eyes open to like this way of you know growing your family.
01:14:30
Speaker
um Because the one thing that I can say about the donor conception is Brooklyn felt like mine. There was no... When I first saw her, the connection I had with her immediately, like there was I completely forgot that it was...
01:14:43
Speaker
you know a donor egg. Like she was my baby girl. She was my miracle. She, you know, I wasn't looking about what features she had that were like close to mine. She was just, she was perfect.
01:14:55
Speaker
So yeah. That's beautiful. i I, can't thank you both enough for your vulnerability and your openness to share Mateo and Brooklyn with us.
01:15:12
Speaker
Um,
01:15:15
Speaker
you said it best. It's not a club, but that network of people who are part of this, it's the worst network to be a part of. And yet you have these beautiful, strong women like yourselves who are there to let everyone know that you aren't in this alone. And so I thank you both so, so much.
01:15:36
Speaker
I have last question. um And it's a fun one. So um Jen, you and I were chatting earlier, but Coffee and i um we are very codependent.
01:15:50
Speaker
And so I always love to ask the question, what has filled your cup today? Literally or figuratively, what has been the thing that has filled your cup?
01:16:05
Speaker
Well, speaking to you guys this morning, today, who we're talking about today, this fills my cup. It really did. You know, I know that it's not an easy topic to talk about, but I think there's nothing more beautiful than being able to speak about our children. And for to have someone who, like, truly, genuinely wants to hear about it, um i i feel filled after speaking with you both.
01:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, I feel the same. Also, when Jen called me before we came on here and she prayed with us. And I was like, that totally filled my cup today. Just to have sister in Christ. But yeah, just speaking about this, because we feel like if we're going to go through something like this, like some good has to come out of our pain, which is trying to encourage and empower women and let them know that they're like warriors and And they can get through anything and women are so strong. And so just to have a network like this and ah and a place to talk is amazing.
01:17:10
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, thank you both again. And um thank you for just everything that you've shared. i'm We're going to definitely have those resources that you guys have each spoken about um in our show notes and everything. But um again, thank you guys so much for um just letting us hear about Brooklyn and Mateo. And I'm so glad that we got to get to know them.