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Episode 41: The murder of James Bulger
48 Plays4 months ago
When Denise and her 2 year old son go to a shopping mall to run errands, James would go missing and turn up unalive two days later. What James went through is truly unthinkable and you'll never believe who did it. Take a listen to find out.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Miners of Mayhem'
00:00:36
Eden & Briana
What's up, my lovely bitches? Hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of Miners of Mayhem, a true crime podcast that dives into minors who commit murder. I'm your co-host Brianna. And of course with me is my birthgiver Eden. Hello. Now I'm a birth giver. You've always been a birth giver. That's what you are in my phone. I know. Just a reminder that when we cover cases, we do not leave out any
Awareness Campaigns for December
00:01:03
Eden & Briana
details. We believe that what the victims endured need to be told. Yes. And as always, it is the beginning of the month. So December Awareness Month is Persons with Disabilities Awareness Month, i World AIDS Day, Seasonal Affective Disorder, National Impaired Driving Prevention Month, okay Crohn's and Colitis Awareness Week,
00:01:31
Eden & Briana
the first through the seventh, and then National Handwashing Awareness Week, the second through the eighth. Can you say that last one? one What now? National Handwashing Awareness Week is December 2nd through December 8th.
00:01:53
Eden & Briana
I have no words. You need to be reminded to wash your freaking hands after you do something. Oh, my mercy. Well, you're talking to a generation that used to eat Tide Pods and all that kind of sorts of things. I've got nothing on this one. Absolutely nothing. um So.
00:02:18
Eden & Briana
What are we doing today?
Kentucky Mother Sentenced for Murder
00:02:22
Eden & Briana
Whoops, what do you got for true crime news? It's been a minute. So in Bullitt County, Kentucky, a 33-year-old mother, Tiffany Lucas, has been sentenced to life in prison after pleading guilty to shooting her six-year-old son, Maurice Baker Jr., and nine-year-old son, Jaden Howard, in the head.
00:02:44
Eden & Briana
Her defense attorney argued she suffered a quote unquote psychotic episode from drug withdrawal. She did attempt suicide, but the gun jammed. Um, for more information on this story, you can find it at truecrimenews dot.com. I don't need to know anymore. Yeah. Unreal. Six and nine. Yep. She's right where she belongs. Damn.
00:03:13
Eden & Briana
Yes. Super sad. You're not supposed to.
00:03:20
Eden & Briana
ah Okay.
The James Bulger Case Overview
00:03:23
Eden & Briana
So, what are we doing today? Today's episode. I've had enough shit already. What? Why? You're telling me this crap. Well, it's gonna get worse. To be reminded to be hand washed and then killing your own children. Well, it's gonna get worse.
00:03:42
Eden & Briana
Today's episode, I am covering the murder of two-year-old James Patrick Bulger. Nope, I'm done. I'm out. You know this case, huh? Yep. Yeah. I'm out. This case takes place in Walton, Liverpool, England. Now, if you have heard this case, like my mom here, then you know that it is very graphic. And for those of you that haven't, this is your warning.
00:04:09
Eden & Briana
it is Absolutely horrific. What James went through. My resources for this case came from Wikipedia, Killer Kids 1, The Guardian, and Murderpedia. Are you ready?
James Bulger's Early Life and Tragedy
00:04:26
Eden & Briana
No. Buckle in. No. Can we just nod? Well, you can go play with the kids and I'll just cover it. oh No.
00:04:37
Eden & Briana
I don't reckon I should leave you hanging. No, because what you put me through with the last one, you're sitting through this. Oh, okay you're gonna hate me next week. Oh, shit. I'm gonna get even next week. What do you mean I'm getting even with you this week? You're gonna want to double get even with me after next week. Oh, fudge. Next week. Cowlet cleanser.
00:05:02
Eden & Briana
You know how I dragged you through a couple of days of torture with the last one? Yeah. I'm going to drag you through over 40 days with the next one. Oh, fudge. Yep. Is that going to be a tupada? It depends upon how deep I go. I don't know. OK. I'm not going to say it is, and I'm not going to say it isn't. OK, makes sense. OK, let's, let's, oh, OK. All right. All right, unbuckled up, buttercup.
00:05:26
Eden & Briana
James was born to Denise and I believe his name is Richard. Let me just double check that. Ralph, I'm sorry, to Denise and Ralph on March 16th, 1990. James was a blue eyed, beautiful, innocent looking child and was his mother's pride and joy. Denise would take James everywhere with her.
00:05:54
Eden & Briana
Unfortunately, on Friday, February 12th, 1993, tragedy would strike. On that Friday, Denise made a trip to the Boodle Strand Shopping Center in Liverpool, England.
The Abduction by Venables and Thompson
00:06:08
Eden & Briana
Denise just had only a couple errands to run, but James was being kind of difficult. Now we've had toddlers before. We know how it is when shopping. It it can get rough.
00:06:21
Eden & Briana
ye According to his mother, James refuted refused to ride in a stroller and insisted on walking. That's the age, yeah? Getting a little independent. Yeah. Yeah. Nicola, was who was Denise's brother's girlfriend, had taed a lot add tagged along and was able to help with James. Okay. Now John Venables The needles. Venables. Venables. Not that I care. Venables and Robert Thompson were also at the shopping center, shopping mall that day. These two 10 year old boys were always getting into trouble like playing hooky from school, which they did pretty often. and ten At 10? At 10. Holy mackerel.
00:07:10
Eden & Briana
they went to go They went to the shopping center to steal. They stole batteries, a can of blue paint, writing utensils, a troll doll, a wind-up toy soldier, candy, fruit, makeup, and whatever else they felt like stealing. 10-year-olds. Yeah.
00:07:28
Eden & Briana
Stealing wasn't the only trouble they were getting into, though. They were jumping on tables and chairs in McDonald's, tormenting an elderly lady by running up behind her and pushing on her back. They kicked a paint can at a hardware store until it started leaking everywhere. my god When they were told to leave, they just laughed in their faces, didn't care.
00:07:55
Eden & Briana
These boys had absolutely no respect. Sounds like they needed their asses whipped. Cared only about themselves. Yeah. I blame parents. Well, OK. Well, we'll get there. OK. They even tried luring a two-year-old boy, but
James Reported Missing
00:08:16
Eden & Briana
they were chased off by the mother that day. Mm.
00:08:20
Eden & Briana
um Meanwhile, Denise just had one more stop at the butcher shop than she would be done with her errands. Since James was still playing, Denise decided to leave him at the front while she ran into the butcher shop since it wouldn't take but a couple of minutes. This was the perfect opportunity for John and Robert. They spotted James from a nearby concession stand and noticed that James was by himself.
00:08:47
Eden & Briana
John nonchalantly walked up to James with his hand held out and said, come on, baby. James took his hand and followed them to go outside. CCTV footage shows them outside with James still holding John's hand at 3.42 PM. So as you can imagine, Denise was absolutely frantic looking for James.
00:09:15
Eden & Briana
Yeah, I could imagine. Yeah. I remember you kids hiding under clothes rack once in the store and I came unglued. Yeah. and Yeah. okay good Well, even with my son, he's starting to walk now and he'll walk behind the couch and like sit down and we'll just sit there. Like he won't play. Like he won't make a peep and I'm like, where did he go? but In my own home.
00:09:38
Eden & Briana
So I couldn't imagine what it would feel like in a shopping center, you know? No, not at all. Denise looked everywhere and came up short. So she went to the security office and gave the security guards a detailed description of what James looked like and what he was wearing. Okay.
00:09:57
Eden & Briana
um
00:10:00
Eden & Briana
The security guard reassured Denise that children always get lost in the mall and that doing an announcement, she would be reunited with her son. The announcement, however, didn't turn up James, so Denise made the wise decision to report James missing. At this time, James has been missing for about 30 minutes. okay I'm going to take a little sippy sip here.
00:10:31
Eden & Briana
Okay. Now, By this time, James was crying for his mother while the boys were walking down Stanley Road, and John and Robert just ignore the ignored the little boys' cries.
Witnesses Fail to Intervene
00:10:45
Eden & Briana
When they reached a canal, they took James under the bridge, and this is when things get bad for James. John and Robert, Robert's initial plan was just to push James into the water, but James was too scared to go near the edge okay of the
00:11:04
Eden & Briana
water. It's unclear of which boy did this next act because later they would blame it on each other. But they picked James up by his legs, holding him upside down and dropped him on his head. Oh, good God. When James started crying after the boys ran away and then came back and started to comfort James. Okay.
00:11:30
Eden & Briana
Later, many witnesses would come forward saying they seen James with John and Robert. Some said they seen James get kicked in the ribs, that John would punch James and shake him. How nobody thought to step in is beyond me. Exactly. But they just kept saying, oh he's our little brother, or people assumed that they would he was the little brother and it's still not okay to kick and punch your little brother no i agree you know where's your mom yeah let's go find your mom yep when an elderly woman spotted injured james she approached them and the older boys told her that they found him at the bottom of the hill the women told john and robert to take james to a nearby police station and gave them directions oh no
00:12:25
Eden & Briana
Of course, the boys didn't and went the opposite direction. And unfortunately, the elderly woman did not report anything. oh The three boys had been walking for nearly two miles now and ended up on County Road where they entered several shops. When people would ask, the boys claimed that they found James wandering and they were taking him to the police station.
The Crime and Its Aftermath
00:12:51
Eden & Briana
okay i am At 5.30pm, it was dark when they arrived at the train tracks and John and Robert weren't really sure exactly what to do with James. Here's an idea. Take him back. Take him back. In one resource, i I didn't put it in here, but they said that they couldn't take him to the police station because it was closed and they couldn't take him
00:13:23
Eden & Briana
to either of their houses because they would get beat for having this little boy. So they didn't know what to do with him. When they spotted a hole in the fence that led down to the tracks, they decided to take him there. The boys threw blue paint in James's face and James started crying.
00:13:49
Eden & Briana
Because I'm sure paint in the eye doesn't feel too good. I'm sure it stings. Yeah. Probably the lead paint back then. Oh, probably. And oil based instead of water. Yeah. So the boys started beating, kicking, and stomping on James.
00:14:08
Eden & Briana
They threw bricks at him, pulled his shoes, pants, and underwear off. In one resource, it said the boys stuck batteries into James's anus and mouth, but none were found. They also beat James with an iron bar. The boys then laid James across the tracks, weighing his head down with bricks and rocks, hoping he would get hit by a train to make it seem the accident. A train did in fact hit James, cutting his body in half.
00:14:44
Eden & Briana
James wouldn't be found until two days later by four boys who were playing down by the railroad tracks. Oh my gosh. A forensic pathologist testified that James suffered 42 injuries, 10 of which were skull fractures. Now one resource says that none could be identified as the fatal wound and that James died before the train hit him. And in another source, it says that James was still alive when John and Robert left him on the tracks, but died before the train. Okay. It's unclear what exactly happened, but also in the pathologist report, um, said that James, James's foreskin had been forcibly pulled back. Oh God.
00:15:35
Eden & Briana
So I definitely believe that there was some sexual assault there, or molestation, I should say. um
00:15:44
Eden & Briana
oh Yeah, I lost my spot. Just give me a second. um The whole community and Denise were devastated by the news of James. The area where James was found was covered with flowers, tributes, and cards.
00:16:04
Eden & Briana
Robert Thompson had the audacity to lay a single flower down at this memorial. As seen in a lot of murder cases, the murderer will keep a close eye on the news, right? And that's exactly what John did. He even told his mom that if he found whoever took James, he would kick their heads in.
00:16:31
Eden & Briana
Oh, wow. Okay, well, there you have it. When his mother told him that James's body was found, all John said was, quote, his poor mom. Oh my gosh. Mm hmm. Take a little drinky break here. You take mom one. I know. Hmm. I don't like this. Questions, comments, concerns.
00:17:03
Eden & Briana
Are we gonna get to a motive? I need to know. Okay. So now the police had to find who did this to James.
Confession and Conviction of Venables and Thompson
00:17:14
Eden & Briana
Many parents called in thinking that it might have been their own children because they, I didn't put this in there, but the police went to the schools and asked for like absentee's list and all of that. Okay.
00:17:31
Eden & Briana
However, one tip came in and the names John Bebbles. Venables. I forgot an N. I was like, what am I missing? Venables. And Robert Thompson were said because John had blue paint on his jacket and Robert had played hooky with John that day James went missing. boy When they were brought in for questioning, John was hysterically crying.
00:17:59
Eden & Briana
and Robert refused to cooperate. They both denied having any involvement. However, John finally cracked and blurted out, quote, I killed the baby, unquote. Then once officers told Robert that his friend confessed, Robert then confessed as well.
00:18:23
Eden & Briana
On November 24, both boys were found guilty. This would make them UK's youngest convicted murderers in the 20th century. The judge described the murder as, quote, unparalleled in evil and barbarity, unquote. Yeah, you think? Wow. Yeah.
00:18:45
Eden & Briana
John and Robert were detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure, but because of their ages, they would only serve eight years.
Life After Release for John and Robert
00:18:54
Eden & Briana
Eight? Eight. yeah There was a lot of conflictions on what their sentence should be because of their age. They didn't really know how to discipline.
00:19:11
Eden & Briana
yeah I think the discipline missed the mark by years. Yeah. Okay. Both were released at age 18 in June of 2001. Robert has laid low. Meanwhile, John kept getting in trouble with the law. In February 2018, John was charged with child pornography, serving three years behind bars again.
00:19:38
Eden & Briana
He remains there since his appeals were rejected for parole in 2023.
00:19:45
Eden & Briana
A memorial garden for James was created in his hometown of Kirkby at Sacred Heart Primary School where James would have attended. Ralph and Denise went on to have another son, but eventually got divorced and both remarried.
James's Family Moves Forward
00:20:05
Eden & Briana
Denise and her new husband would have two more sons. And then Ralph and his new wife would have three daughters. Oh, wow. So it's kind of like our local um couple. They lost a child at a very young age. I think he was five. um And they went on to have more children. And I think believe she said that having more children saved her and i'm assuming they're marriage too right children are such little healing human beings this so they never did come out and and give a reason why they did this none of in none of what i read unless i skipped over it i don't know anyways okay
00:21:04
Eden & Briana
Sorry. um
00:21:15
Eden & Briana
um So yeah, so I think it's beautiful that they were able to have children after this right horrific tragedy. As always, our hearts go out to the family of James. What he went through is truly unthinkable.
The Importance of Intervention
00:21:33
Eden & Briana
Also, if you see something, say something. I believe there was so many people. so opportunities for people to put a stop to what happened to you. Yes. If you see something and you say something, you could potentially be saving a life. who It's always better to overreact than not reacting at all right like a lot of a lot of the witnesses um you know thought it was strange the way they were treating james but they didn't intervene at all right right and i just think that if one well that elderly lady if she would have reported it i think you know right but it's a lot of ifs
00:22:22
Eden & Briana
so Right. many if Right. If should have could have would have hindsight is 2020. Yes. yeah Oh, my gosh. There was so many opportunities. Yes. If you have comments, questions, case recommendations.
00:22:39
Eden & Briana
You can email us at minorsofmayhem at gmail dot.com. Facebook message us and please be sure to follow to see pictures from cases and to stay updated on episode. um We thank you for your continued support. Love and support. We appreciate you and we wouldn't be here without you. um If you don't like the Talking about the case, banter, and all of that, the case is over and you may exit. So. I don't like you. It needed to be told though. I'm sure it's been covered numerous times already, but... But why? Two ten-year-old boys. I know, I can't wrap my head around that. That's... Doing that to a two-year-old. I...
00:23:35
Eden & Briana
I should have dug a little deeper into their home life, maybe? Or if they were just like assholes for no reason. It makes me wonder. Truly, it makes me wonder because... Can you be born like that? I don't know. Just to be hateful like that? Can you, I mean, even to older people? I don't know. Something I had to know happened.
00:24:03
Eden & Briana
They're little freaking predators. I don't know. like It really brings up what is going on behind closed door vibes for me. Yeah, for sure. Because there's got to be a reason. Yeah. Is it nature versus nurture? I mean don't know.
00:24:27
Eden & Briana
It could be so many different things. I know. But then you look at it. Were they sexually abused at home? Are they being beat at home? Are they taking it out in the weaker? Right. Yeah, I don't know. And look at John. I mean, he served his time, got out, and then he was charged with child pornography on his computer. So something's off there, for sure. And the other one laid low. So I wonder No, I'm just making guesses here. I know we're talking. We're talking out our own opinions. This is not facts in any way. Opinions. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. So my question would be, I guess. I lost my train of thought. Old age is wonderful.
00:25:13
Eden & Briana
um
00:25:17
Eden & Briana
Do you think John Venables was the ringleader and Robert more of a follower since when they were convicted and released, John went on to do bad, but Robert laid low? A lot of people did suspect that, but it was never confirmed because they kept blaming each other for, well, he he's the one that held him upside down and dropped him. ah No, he's the one that did it. So only the two went back and forth.
00:25:47
Eden & Briana
Yes. It kind of it kind of kind of brings those vibes for me that that Venables might have been the little ringleader there. Yeah. So it makes me wonder what was going on in his home. And you and then in the other kid's home, maybe he wasn't getting enough. Maybe it could be an attention thing. He wasn't getting enough. Maybe he wasn't being abused, but he wasn't getting the attention that he needed. Yeah, that very well could be. There's so many factors to put in.
00:26:18
Eden & Briana
Oh God, it could be anything. but that That just rings into my head when you put the whole thing together. Those are some things that pop up into my head. Right. Yeah. I don't know. And I think.
00:26:34
Eden & Briana
um Should I can't remember? Let me see if I can find it, but they were talking about like I don't know what else you got I in that's all I can I don't know yeah I'm not gonna we can do an update later but
00:27:11
Eden & Briana
I doubt it. We always say that. in my I know. I know. It's like there's so many questions that I still, when I go back, there's so many questions I have about each case that we have covered that, you know what? Okay. So my case next week is a freaking doozy.
Tease for Next Complex Case
00:27:28
Eden & Briana
Like every case that we cover is horrific. I mean, horrific and horrible, but this case is a little different in the fact that it is going to be drawn over more than 40 days. It's not just a quick kill, torture in the moment. This is going to be drug out for over 40 days. And it is, it is taking me, let's see, how long until I did my last case? Am I on week number three? Yeah. It is so,
00:28:09
Eden & Briana
horrific and draining for me that I'm not even halfway done and I've been working on it for three weeks. god It is, yeah, there's gonna have to be a big blanket trigger. So while I'm finishing that up, what you should do is grab each case and see if there's any updates. And then we'll do like a pallet cleanser after the next one after the one that I do.
00:28:35
Eden & Briana
we can do it an update episode and be on the cases that we've covered already. Just see if there's any updates. Like we can say from case number one, I think it was William Daniel Marsh or whatever his name is, Daniel William Marsh. So you can go see if there's any updates. If there's no updates, you can say there's no updates in this case, go on to episode two, see if there's any updates. Just go down the line. Go down the line. You work on that while I finish up. Cause it's gonna, Oh man.
00:29:05
Eden & Briana
I'm telling you. Where does it take place? Japan. Oh. You're going to want a pregame for that one. And I'm not talking a little bit of pregame. Hey, not bad. I'm probably going to come in the morning and we'll start pregaming. Oh, I'm laying stuff. I'm having a hard time writing it.
00:29:30
Eden & Briana
Oof, though. The things that are, oh.
00:29:38
Eden & Briana
So yeah you guys got a doozy coming up and I think after that we'll just give an update on everything because we're gonna need it. I needed a palate cleanser after the bone breaker one. Yeah well we're really gonna need one after. All right that'll be good though. Yeah so I think it'd be cool we'll just go update everything. Yep sounds good to me. See where they're at if we can figure out and if they're not we'll just say who they were and no update.
00:30:03
Eden & Briana
yeah Just go down the line of each and every one. That'll be a good episode. That'll be fun. that That'll be that' be a third good one. Well, until next time, stay safe out there. And please refrain from being pond scum. Life is too short. And keep your happy asses safe out there. Bye.